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View Full Version : Cutler in September........Cutler in December



WARHORSE
05-03-2008, 05:54 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/cutler_comparison_week1_wee.jpg

Dont know if this has been posted, but look at his legs, arms, waist, shoulders and neck.

OW.:shocked:


Dont know how he didnt break.

Kapaibro
05-03-2008, 05:58 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!!!!

He lost weight over the course of a gruelling season of football!!!!!!!!! (which we now know was aided by the onset of diabetes)



D'oh, we know that. For god's sake, this is NOT the end of the world.

honz
05-03-2008, 06:00 PM
Whoa! That is crazy...his legs and arms look tiny in comparison to the September picture. His whole body looks totally different.

Kapaibro
05-03-2008, 06:01 PM
Whoa! That is crazy...his legs and arms look tiny in comparison to the September picture. His whole body looks totally different.

Yeah, that and the fact that they are taken from different angles.

WARHORSE
05-03-2008, 06:02 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!!!!

He lost weight over the course of a gruelling season of football!!!!!!!!! (which we now know was aided by the onset of diabetes)



D'oh, we know that. For god's sake, this is NOT the end of the world.


Who said it was?

CHILLAX.:tsk:

honz
05-03-2008, 06:02 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!!!!

He lost weight over the course of a gruelling season of football!!!!!!!!! (which we now know was aided by the onset of diabetes)



D'oh, we know that. For god's sake, this is NOT the end of the world.
I think he is just trying to show the difference...I don't see any "freaking out" in his post.

WARHORSE
05-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Yeah, that and the fact that they are taken from different angles.

Oh and the fact that he weighed 238 in one and 203 in the other.

DOH!

TXBRONC
05-03-2008, 06:12 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/cutler_comparison_week1_wee.jpg

Dont know if this has been posted, but look at his legs, arms, waist, shoulders and neck.

OW.:shocked:


Dont know how he didnt break.

If you had a similar picture of him in September to the taken in December it might make it easier to see the differences. From those two pictures I honestly can't tell.

Lonestar
05-03-2008, 08:27 PM
Oh and the fact that he weighed 238 in one and 203 in the other.

DOH!

are you sure that is not just the dark uni making him less fat?

:listen: Weight watchers say that darker colors are sliming.. :laugh:

claymore
05-03-2008, 08:33 PM
Oh and the fact that he weighed 238 in one and 203 in the other.

DOH!
6 ft 3 and 203 is a skinny SOB............. Im thinking we knew about this longer than was publicized. He had to look gaunt, and I know because of my mom how goofy people act because of low blood sugars. If he did as well as he did last year , and was going thru low Blood Sugars, he is going to be a beast this year.

For people that have never seen it, when someone goes thru a low Blood sugar, they go from normal to drunk in a period of a couple minutes.

Lonestar
05-03-2008, 08:42 PM
6 ft 3 and 203 is a skinny SOB............. Im thinking we knew about this longer than was publicized. He had to look gaunt, and I know because of my mom how goofy people act because of low blood sugars. If he did as well as he did last year , and was going thru low Blood Sugars, he is going to be a beast this year.

For people that have never seen it, when someone goes thru a low Blood sugar, they go from normal to drunk in a period of a couple minutes.

hmmmm someone was not paying attention were they..

claymore
05-03-2008, 08:51 PM
hmmmm someone was not paying attention were they..I dont know what you mean, my mom or me? Or Cutler, or the Broncos?:confused:

Point is, it happens really quick, and the tester is light years ahead of what it used to be. Drinking a soda, or coffee can throw yourself into a high sugar, and same goes from eating nothing for lunch and a low sugar. It really is a disciplined way of life that is measured by the hour.

BroncoJoe
05-03-2008, 09:03 PM
B.f.d.

BroncoWave
05-03-2008, 09:05 PM
hmmmm someone was not paying attention were they..

We get it JR. You've made your point loud and clear.

BroncoJoe
05-03-2008, 09:08 PM
hmmmm someone was not paying attention were they..

Did you notice? **EDIT**

Lonestar
05-03-2008, 09:11 PM
I dont know what you mean, my mom or me? Or Cutler, or the Broncos?:confused:

Point is, it happens really quick, and the tester is light years ahead of what it used to be. Drinking a soda, or coffee can throw yourself into a high sugar, and same goes from eating nothing for lunch and a low sugar. It really is a disciplined way of life that is measured by the hour.

broncos, FO, coaches, trainers, teammates

Sorry but this is being discussed heavily in another thread.. You should probably add your expertise in that thread

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13769

Perhaps they might believe someone that has been there done that..


Good posting

BroncoWave
05-03-2008, 09:26 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/cutler_comparison_week1_wee.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Warbirdz7/jc.jpg

Here's a picture from week 3 at a better angle. I, myself, don't see just a huge difference between this one, and the second one you posted. And with the fact that he gradually lost this weight, I can see how it would go unnoticed.

WARHORSE
05-03-2008, 10:58 PM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Warbirdz7/jc.jpg

Here's a picture from week 3 at a better angle. I, myself, don't see just a huge difference between this one, and the second one you posted. And with the fact that he gradually lost this weight, I can see how it would go unnoticed.

I think the fact that this was Jays first full season helped disguise what was happening. He was probably thinking that this is what normally happens when you play a full season in the NFL. He had heard of weight loss before from playing, lots of athletes go through it. But because he had no prior seasons to compare by, he didnt have enough to make a judgement that he was losing too much weight.

The good thing is, he didnt lapse into a coma or hurt himself, and he has been properly diagnosed.

I look forward to the coming season.

NameUsedBefore
05-03-2008, 11:31 PM
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/78679126.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193587004028B1CDC4E1F6CE7A87DBF8BA4 284831B75F48EF45

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76692965.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1932A9B55D9B9C7D68DEABE5E70D35F503E 284831B75F48EF45

He definitely looks stockier in the Bills game, while pretty lean (which reminds me, someone even mentioned that Cutler was looking more lean awhile back...) in the Vikings one. It's not dramatic by any means, but it's there.

LoyalSoldier
05-03-2008, 11:38 PM
The two images don't prove anything since they can both be subjective. Also there are such things as optical illusions.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 12:01 AM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Warbirdz7/jc.jpg

Here's a picture from week 3 at a better angle. I, myself, don't see just a huge difference between this one, and the second one you posted. And with the fact that he gradually lost this weight, I can see how it would go unnoticed.


I was just thinking the same thing. We all know he lost all that weight because he said he did but I just can't from those pictures.

topscribe
05-04-2008, 12:06 AM
If you had a similar picture of him in September to the taken in December it might make it easier to see the differences. From those two pictures I honestly can't tell.

You're kidding, TX. :shocked:

The difference slapped me in the face!

-----

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 12:06 AM
I think the fact that this was Jays first full season helped disguise what was happening. He was probably thinking that this is what normally happens when you play a full season in the NFL. He had heard of weight loss before from playing, lots of athletes go through it. But because he had no prior seasons to compare by, he didnt have enough to make a judgement that he was losing too much weight.

The good thing is, he didnt lapse into a coma or hurt himself, and he has been properly diagnosed.

I look forward to the coming season.


Yes that's exactly what Jay said what everyone else thought at the time. The stress of the position and rigors of game it's a very logical conclusion to come too for the weight loss especially if Jay didn't say anything about the other symptoms.

fcspikeit
05-04-2008, 12:06 AM
The two images don't prove anything since they can both be subjective. Also there are such things as optical illusions.

Almost anything can be subjective, and optical illusions curtainly exist.. However this isn't an illusion. It's a fact he lost 35 pounds over the course of the season...

Not just that but when I look back he looked spent on a couple plays, It is weird no one seemed to notice. Remember the titans game? Cutler ran for something like 20 yards and he stayed on the ground bent over on one knee. I thought he was hurt because he stayed down so long. The announcers didn't say anything about it but one of his teammates tried to help him up and he brushed them off.

After the game I searched to see if I could find anything about him being hurt, I remember asking in a thread if anyone knew why he stayed down so long?

I had low blood sugar one time in an all day Volleyball tourney. It sucked. I was dizzy and I got the shakes really bad. It threw everything off.. He is quit the athlete to be able to play under those circumstances.. When you are that tired it is hard to stay motivated, Your brain is telling your body to shut down...

Now that he has it under control it will be interesting to see how well he plays this year.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 12:09 AM
You're kidding, TX. :shocked:

The difference slapped me in the face!

-----


No I'm kidding and from the looks of it I'm not the only one can see it from those pictures. I don't deny that it happened but from those pictures at those angles I can't see it.

omac
05-04-2008, 12:10 AM
Like white makes you look fatter? :D

I don't blame the Broncos staff for not detecting something was wrong with Cutler. I do have suspicions about how effective their conditioning program is, with the run of injuries we had last season. When Lynch was told he had to compete for his spot this season, he decided to go to his own strength and conditioning trainers instead of relying with the ones of the Broncos. :confused:

topscribe
05-04-2008, 12:12 AM
Like white makes you look fatter? :D

I don't blame the Broncos staff for not detecting something was wrong with Cutler. I do have suspicions about how effective their conditioning program is, with the run of injuries we had last season. When Lynch was told he had to compete for his spot this season, he decided to go to his own strength and conditioning trainers instead of relying with the ones of the Broncos. :confused:

Well, maybe Sundquist isn't the only one who should be fired?

Maybe like in the training area?

-----

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 12:18 AM
Like white makes you look fatter? :D

I don't blame the Broncos staff for not detecting something was wrong with Cutler. I do have suspicions about how effective their conditioning program is, with the run of injuries we had last season. When Lynch was told he had to compete for his spot this season, he decided to go to his own strength and conditioning trainers instead of relying with the ones of the Broncos. :confused:



DING DING DING

we have a Weiner..

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 12:23 AM
Almost anything can be subjective, and optical illusions curtainly exist.. However this isn't an illusion. It's a fact he lost 35 pounds over the course of the season...

Not just that but when I look back he looked spent on a couple plays, It is weird no one seemed to notice. Remember the titans game? Cutler ran for something like 20 yards and he stayed on bent over on one knee. I thought he was hurt because he stayed down so long. The announcers didn't say anything about it but one of his teammates tried to help him up and he brushed them off.

After the game I searched to see if I could find anything about him being hurt, I remember asking in a thread if anyone knew why he stayed down so long?

I had low blood sugar one time in an all day Volleyball tourney. It sucked. I was dizzy and I got the shakes really bad. It threw everything off.. He is quit the athlete to be able to play under those circumstances.. When you are that tired it is hard to stay motivated, Your brain is telling your body to shut down...

Now that he has it under control it will be interesting to see how well he plays this year.



wonder if anyone of the coaches asked him if he was OK..

Nature Boy
05-04-2008, 12:49 AM
So how did Cutler and the Broncos find out he was diabetic? I mean, what prompted Cutler to get tested? Was there something specific? Was that info shared with the public? Or Was it just the weight lost over the period of the season, looking skinny/unhealthy and easily winded?

Watchthemiddle
05-04-2008, 12:54 AM
Clinton Portis weighed 187 at the end of his rookie year. Weighloss in the NFL happens.....I just don't like seeing it so drastic by the QB in one season.

I sure hope Clady is good with his feet and the rest of the line is as well.....they are going to need to block their cans off to protect Cutler this year or he might just dissinigrate on impact by some big 300+ lb DT.

omac
05-04-2008, 01:05 AM
The thing with Cutler is that he was never the fragile type. He's used to getting hit a lot, and he can play when injured. The diabetes is something he needs to take control of, but I don't there's reason to think he'll be any less tough of a quarterback.

Ziggy
05-04-2008, 01:07 AM
6 ft 3 and 203 is a skinny SOB............. Im thinking we knew about this longer than was publicized. He had to look gaunt, and I know because of my mom how goofy people act because of low blood sugars. If he did as well as he did last year , and was going thru low Blood Sugars, he is going to be a beast this year.

For people that have never seen it, when someone goes thru a low Blood sugar, they go from normal to drunk in a period of a couple minutes.

He wasn't going through low blood sugars Claymore, he was actually going through high blood sugars. The insulin that he has to take brings the blood sugar down, not raises it. Hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) is a slow onset condition that takes place over weeks and months. Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is a sudden onset condition and yes, imitates the effects of too much alcohol in some people.

Jay's blood sugar was high last season. His body wasn't creating insulin to lower it. That's what caused the weight loss, fatigue, and some other symptoms that he had.

Still, I don't know how he performed as well as he did in such a weakened state. It's amazing. Watch for him to make huge advances this year in his play. It looks like we finally have another franchise QB.

WARHORSE
05-04-2008, 05:28 AM
You're kidding, TX. :shocked:

The difference slapped me in the face!

-----


Im with you dude. How anyone cant see the weight loss is beyond me.

Optical illusion?

Puleeeze.:tsk:

Nature Boy
05-04-2008, 05:39 AM
He looks sick almost in the right picture. I'm surprise a game commentator or someone in the networks didn't point that out.

Den21vsBal19
05-04-2008, 05:58 AM
At least the problem's been diagnosed and is eminently controllable

Living with Diabetes (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=226665#post226665)

However I do think some questions need to be asked about how this was missed.

NameUsedBefore
05-04-2008, 06:52 AM
He looks sick almost in the right picture. I'm surprise a game commentator or someone in the networks didn't point that out.

I think it was because it was so gradual. I even remember making mental notes of how he looked kinda like Jake (lankiness) but I never even came close to comparing him to his earlier forms. It's just not something anyone can really see, IMO; I mean, this is kind of a one in a million event.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 06:53 AM
So how did Cutler and the Broncos find out he was diabetic? I mean, what prompted Cutler to get tested? Was there something specific? Was that info shared with the public? Or Was it just the weight lost over the period of the season, looking skinny/unhealthy and easily winded?


Through routine blood work that is done every year before the start of offseason team workouts.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 06:55 AM
Im with you dude. How anyone cant see the weight loss is beyond me.

Optical illusion?

Puleeeze.:tsk:

Hold on, War I haven't denied that he lost the weight I just can't tell by those pictures.

Nature Boy
05-04-2008, 07:09 AM
I think it was because it was so gradual. I even remember making mental notes of how he looked kinda like Jake (lankiness) but I never even came close to comparing him to his earlier forms. It's just not something anyone can really see, IMO; I mean, this is kind of a one in a million event.

I'm sure you're right about the gradualness but I'm surprise the HC and OC didn't notice that their 6'3'' 238lb QB only weighed 207lbs by game 16. I'm surprise I didn't notice the difference on TV but TV can be misleading as we can only compare an object next to another. Well, it's good to know his condition will not effect his playing from here on out.

MHCBill
05-04-2008, 08:13 AM
He played better the last 8 games than the first 8 games for what it's worth.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 08:13 AM
I'm sure you're right about the gradualness but I'm surprise the HC and OC didn't notice that their 6'3'' 238lb QB only weighed 207lbs by game 16. I'm surprise I didn't notice the difference on TV but TV can be misleading as we can only compare an object next to another. Well, it's good to know his condition will not effect his playing from here on out.

They did notice the weight loss but they attributed it to stress and the rigors of playing every game.

Dreadnought
05-04-2008, 09:09 AM
He wasn't going through low blood sugars Claymore, he was actually going through high blood sugars. The insulin that he has to take brings the blood sugar down, not raises it. Hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) is a slow onset condition that takes place over weeks and months. Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is a sudden onset condition and yes, imitates the effects of too much alcohol in some people.

Jay's blood sugar was high last season. His body wasn't creating insulin to lower it. That's what caused the weight loss, fatigue, and some other symptoms that he had.

Still, I don't know how he performed as well as he did in such a weakened state. It's amazing. Watch for him to make huge advances this year in his play. It looks like we finally have another franchise QB.

One of my closest friend has type 1 diabetes, requiring daily shots etc. He is most often prone to problems from high blood sugar, but every once in a while would get hit with a dose of hypoglycemia too. His diabetes has his whole system screwed up. When he goes "low" he actually takes a couple of tablespoons of honey, which gets him right almost instantly. I think the correct answer is "both", though the systemic long term problem is of course as you described.

topscribe
05-04-2008, 09:33 AM
So how did Cutler and the Broncos find out he was diabetic? I mean, what prompted Cutler to get tested? Was there something specific? Was that info shared with the public? Or Was it just the weight lost over the period of the season, looking skinny/unhealthy and easily winded?

Constant dry mouth, frequent urination, sudden and dramatic weight loss, all
those symptoms that suggest diabetes . . . you know, all those things that
have been plastered all over the news the last few days.

-----

topscribe
05-04-2008, 10:03 AM
One of my closest friend has type 1 diabetes, requiring daily shots etc. He is most often prone to problems from high blood sugar, but every once in a while would get hit with a dose of hypoglycemia too. His diabetes has his whole system screwed up. When he goes "low" he actually takes a couple of tablespoons of honey, which gets him right almost instantly. I think the correct answer is "both", though the systemic long term problem is of course as you described.

My dad and my maternal grandfather both had Type 1 diabetes (which makes
me extremely blessed that I don't).

Cutler probably would not have bouts of hypoglycemia until had started taking
insulin. As you probably know, that's principally what diabetes is: the pancreas
shuts down on producing insulin (it has other functions, though), so the
insulin then has to be provided artificially.

Of course, the insulin is what regulates the sugar level in the body. A
healthy pancreas knows when to provide it and when to let up, depending
on the amount of sugar present. Now, all that has to be done through
constant testing.

Sometimes too much insulin has been introduced for the sugar present, so
the body goes into "insulin shock," and the body can't handle the excess
insulin. This can result in even a coma if not addressed quickly. My dad
would carry around a honey packet, such as one would get at KFC, because
honey is the fastest acting sugar. When he felt an insulin shock coming on,
he would just rip of the end and squeeze the honey into his mouth, and
that would take care of it immediately.

Of course, we are being exposed to what happens when the sugar level
gets too high. That can result in coma, too, in extreme cases.

Technology has come a long way on regulating (but not curing) the disease.
My Aunt Margie died of it in the 1930s, long before I was born. Rarely will
one hear of a person dying directly of diabetes now, although it tends to
increase the risk of secondary diseases, such as heart disease, if not
regulated assiduously. Also, Alzheimer's has recently been linked to insulin
problems.

But if Cutler adheres to his regimen faithfully, then he will be fine on and off
the field.

-----

BroncoJoe
05-04-2008, 10:05 AM
It's kind of sad that people just have to have someone to blame. If he lost the 30-35 lbs overnight, someone would have noticed. He didn't, and while Jay was confused about it, even he thought it was just due to the rigors of playing an entire NFL season for the first time. The below article says the Dr.'s wanted to run some tests, but Jay never found the time to get in there.


The number 100 is solid for a quarterback rating - and the normally functioning body's blood- sugar level before a meal, when the number spikes to perhaps 180.

As Jay Cutler lay nearly motionless on a couch in Atlanta, just trying to recapture some semblance of energy from his morning workouts in January and February, there's no telling how high that figure rose.

"I'm sure it was in the 500 and 600s," Cutler surmised Friday, relating he would sleep from 2 to 6 p.m., eat dinner, then crash again most days during that period. "Because I felt a heck of a lot worse then than when I did when I figured out what it was."

When the blood work came back April 16, and the Broncos quarterback discovered he had Type 1 diabetes, his glucose count was at 411.

A potential emergency was averted, and perhaps barely, too.

"I've talked to a lot of people and read stories, and the way many of them find out is, they go into a coma for two, three days and it's the only way they figured it out," Cutler said, moments after a news conference to discuss his now- public condition. "I'm fortunate that nothing happened."

Much has occurred since his diagnosis.

Cutler has become educated far beyond his cursory knowledge of the disease. He has regained about 18 of the 30 to 35 pounds he had lost during a five-month span.

His dietary habits have changed. And he already has begun making plans on how to thrive as a professional quarterback on game day without putting himself at risk.

Cutler's current plan is to wear an insulin pump during practices and pregame warm-ups to regulate his blood-sugar level, once he gets back to his 238-pound playing weight and his condition fully stabilizes.

Then he'll take the device off for the three hours he plays in games, keeping a close eye on his glucose levels - either between quarters or at halftime - and drinking Gatorade to give his body a boost rather than letting the machine do the work for him.

"I don't want to get hit on it and it injects 15 units," he said, jokingly.

Cutler, 25, first began to notice there was a problem in mid-October. He lost 8 pounds in a week. Then he dropped 2 to 3 pounds weekly from there.

By season's end, he would scramble for yardage and come back to the huddle gassed, barely able to make the next play call at about 202 pounds, his lowest weight since his freshman year of college.

He and the team's medical staff chalked up his declining physical condition last year to the rigors of his first full NFL season as a starter.

Yet, aside from his weight loss and a marked decline in energy, Cutler was experiencing frequent urination and a constant dry mouth.

In hindsight, those all were classic diabetes symptoms.

But with no family history relating to the disease, Cutler never had the blood work he would need to determine a root cause, until one was given in conjunction with the opening of the team's offseason training program last month.

"We wish we would have caught it towards the end of the season, and that's probably my fault, because we were trying to schedule a blood test but I had a lot of things going on. And once the season ended, everybody kind of scatters around here," Cutler said. "But I think we caught it relatively soon. And talking to the doctors, if I get this under control, there shouldn't be any long-term damage."

And there are severe consequences if Type 1 diabetes is undiagnosed, including possible heart and kidney damage.

Currently, Cutler is injecting himself up to six times daily to keep up with the insulin needed to handle the amount of carbohydrates, proteins and fatty foods he is eating in order to gain all his weight back.

"He's been dealing with it well," said Marty Garafalo, who has run Cutler's charitable foundation for the past year. "It's a lifestyle change, but it's a manageable, treatable disease. And so far, he's keeping track of everything. Now he's trying to gain weight. And I think, once he gets his weight (normalized), the medication will start kicking in a little better."

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan and head trainer Steve Antonopulos are on vacation and were unavailable for comment.

The biggest question to which Cutler might never get an answer relates to how he ended up with the disease.

Cutler's Type 1 version appears in only about 5 percent to 10 percent of the total number of cases.

"I'm just glad we found out now, rather than in the middle of camp," he said. "We'll be able to have a few trial runs with some camps coming up and get a good feel for what it's going to be like, once I get into the strenuous activities and figure out how much I'm going to fall and how I'm going to maintain during games."

The goal is 100, after all - not so much in target blood-sugars levels but the percent of health he feels to do his job.

"Obviously, this is a serious disease," he said. "It's not going to change me on the field. I'll make lifestyle changes. But I'll probably be a better quarterback this year than I was last year."

Npba900
05-04-2008, 10:49 AM
Well, maybe Sundquist isn't the only one who should be fired?

Maybe like in the training area?

-----

Its no secret during training camp last year that Randy Gradishar commented how the Broncos training camp was more like Club Med, in comparison to the training camps he attended as a Bronco in the 70's and 80's.

Now we all know the games has changed since Gradishar's playing days. Whereas in the 70's and 80's, NFL teams were allowed larger rosters, compared to todays NFL with a limited player roster of 53. However, could Gradishar be right with his analysis to a certain degree?;)

Each individual will need to read into Gradashar's comments with a grain of salt.:confused: However, even Shanahan also commented at the end of last season that he believed the reasons for Henry's injuries as well as Selvin's injury were due to the fact they were not in shape last season.

In any regard, hopefully training camp will be a bit more physical and intensive, and the players who were injured/nicked up last season addressed their off season conditioning program to ready themselves for training camp this season.

We will see.

Ziggy
05-04-2008, 11:04 AM
Its no secret during training camp last year that Randy Gradishar commented how the Broncos training camp was more like Club Med, in comparison to the training camps he attended as a Bronco in the 70's and 80's.

Now we all know the games has changed since Gradishar's playing days. Whereas in the 70's and 80's, NFL teams were allowed larger rosters, compared to todays NFL with a limited player roster of 53. However, could Gradishar be right with his analysis to a certain degree?;)

Each individual will need to read into Gradashar's comments with a grain of salt.:confused: However, even Shanahan also commented at the end of last season that he believed the reasons for Henry's injuries as well as Selvin's injury were due to the fact they were not in shape last season.

In any regard, hopefully training camp will be a bit more physical and intensive, and the players who were injured/nicked up last season addressed their off season conditioning program to ready themselves for training camp this season.

We will see.


They also played less games in a season when Gradishar was playing(at least during the first half or so of his career), and had a lot more injuries in camp. They didn't have off season conditioning programs like they do now. At least not in a team setting. Practices in shorts worked for our Super Bowl teams, they can work for this team. Shanahan runs camp the way he always has. I don't see that as a problem. If Henry and Young were not in shape, it is either because of injuries or lack of commitment. Either way, I hope they both have better seasons.

Tned
05-04-2008, 12:13 PM
I wonder if this is why he so often under-threw the deep pass or threw a rainbow. I'm not talking the intermediate ones, but the true long ones.

We all watched in awe in his second game (I think it was the second against AZ), when he rolled out left and then threw the ball on a rope 65 yards for a TD to Walker. Last year there were a number of similar type plays (maybe boot left, maybe right), where he had a receiver 50 or so yards down field and he always threw high rainbows that were usually underthrown and hung up forever. Several were incomplete.

With him losing 2-8 lbs a week and probably not having a ton of body fat, his body must have been consuming a lot of muscle. When you hear him talk about being 'gassed' after scrambling a few yards, he was probably winding up and trying to throw like he thought he was capable and then would underthrow (which seemed to happen early in the season on the long ball), then started making adjustments and threw rainbows that hung up forever (what happened later in the season).

Hopefully, he gets it under control and regains his health, and being completely selfish as a Broncos' fan, hopefully he regains that rocket arm he had his rookie year.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 03:14 PM
I wonder if this is why he so often under-threw the deep pass or threw a rainbow. I'm not talking the intermediate ones, but the true long ones.

We all watched in awe in his second game (I think it was the second against AZ), when he rolled out left and then threw the ball on a rope 65 yards for a TD to Walker. Last year there were a number of similar type plays (maybe boot left, maybe right), where he had a receiver 50 or so yards down field and he always threw high rainbows that were usually under thrown and hung up forever. Several were incomplete.

With him losing 2-8 lbs a week and probably not having a ton of body fat, his body must have been consuming a lot of muscle. When you hear him talk about being 'gassed' after scrambling a few yards, he was probably winding up and trying to throw like he thought he was capable and then would under throw (which seemed to happen early in the season on the long ball), then started making adjustments and threw rainbows that hung up forever (what happened later in the season).

Hopefully, he gets it under control and regains his health, and being completely selfish as a Broncos' fan, hopefully he regains that rocket arm he had his rookie year.

I saw video of the interview that Jay did just a day or two ago and it sounded like he's either got it under control or is well under way. Right now he is injecting insulin about six times a day but that's because he trying to put the weight back on that he had lost last season. He also he feels a lot better now.

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 05:18 PM
It's kind of sad that people just have to have someone to blame. If he lost the 30-35 lbs overnight, someone would have noticed. He didn't, and while Jay was confused about it, even he thought it was just due to the rigors of playing an entire NFL season for the first time. The below article says the Dr.'s wanted to run some tests, but Jay never found the time to get in there.




The number 100 is solid for a quarterback rating - and the normally functioning body's blood- sugar level before a meal, when the number spikes to perhaps 180.

As Jay Cutler lay nearly motionless on a couch in Atlanta, just trying to recapture some semblance of energy from his morning workouts in January and February, there's no telling how high that figure rose.

"I'm sure it was in the 500 and 600s," Cutler surmised Friday, relating he would sleep from 2 to 6 p.m., eat dinner, then crash again most days during that period. "Because I felt a heck of a lot worse then than when I did when I figured out what it was."

When the blood work came back April 16, and the Broncos quarterback discovered he had Type 1 diabetes, his glucose count was at 411.

A potential emergency was averted, and perhaps barely, too.

"I've talked to a lot of people and read stories, and the way many of them find out is, they go into a coma for two, three days and it's the only way they figured it out," Cutler said, moments after a news conference to discuss his now- public condition. "I'm fortunate that nothing happened."

Much has occurred since his diagnosis.

Cutler has become educated far beyond his cursory knowledge of the disease. He has regained about 18 of the 30 to 35 pounds he had lost during a five-month span.

His dietary habits have changed. And he already has begun making plans on how to thrive as a professional quarterback on game day without putting himself at risk.

Cutler's current plan is to wear an insulin pump during practices and pregame warm-ups to regulate his blood-sugar level, once he gets back to his 238-pound playing weight and his condition fully stabilizes.

Then he'll take the device off for the three hours he plays in games, keeping a close eye on his glucose levels - either between quarters or at halftime - and drinking Gatorade to give his body a boost rather than letting the machine do the work for him.

"I don't want to get hit on it and it injects 15 units," he said, jokingly.

Cutler, 25, first began to notice there was a problem in mid-October. He lost 8 pounds in a week. Then he dropped 2 to 3 pounds weekly from there.

By season's end, he would scramble for yardage and come back to the huddle gassed, barely able to make the next play call at about 202 pounds, his lowest weight since his freshman year of college.

He and the team's medical staff chalked up his declining physical condition last year to the rigors of his first full NFL season as a starter.

Yet, aside from his weight loss and a marked decline in energy, Cutler was experiencing frequent urination and a constant dry mouth.

In hindsight, those all were classic diabetes symptoms.

But with no family history relating to the disease, Cutler never had the blood work he would need to determine a root cause, until one was given in conjunction with the opening of the team's offseason training program last month.

"We wish we would have caught it towards the end of the season, and that's probably my fault, because we were trying to schedule a blood test but I had a lot of things going on. And once the season ended, everybody kind of scatters around here," Cutler said. "But I think we caught it relatively soon. And talking to the doctors, if I get this under control, there shouldn't be any long-term damage."

And there are severe consequences if Type 1 diabetes is undiagnosed, including possible heart and kidney damage.

Currently, Cutler is injecting himself up to six times daily to keep up with the insulin needed to handle the amount of carbohydrates, proteins and fatty foods he is eating in order to gain all his weight back.

"He's been dealing with it well," said Marty Garafalo, who has run Cutler's charitable foundation for the past year. "It's a lifestyle change, but it's a manageable, treatable disease. And so far, he's keeping track of everything. Now he's trying to gain weight. And I think, once he gets his weight (normalized), the medication will start kicking in a little better."

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan and head trainer Steve Antonopulos are on vacation and were unavailable for comment.

The biggest question to which Cutler might never get an answer relates to how he ended up with the disease.

Cutler's Type 1 version appears in only about 5 percent to 10 percent of the total number of cases.

"I'm just glad we found out now, rather than in the middle of camp," he said. "We'll be able to have a few trial runs with some camps coming up and get a good feel for what it's going to be like, once I get into the strenuous activities and figure out how much I'm going to fall and how I'm going to maintain during games."

The goal is 100, after all - not so much in target blood-sugars levels but the percent of health he feels to do his job.

"Obviously, this is a serious disease," he said. "It's not going to change me on the field. I'll make lifestyle changes. But I'll probably be a better quarterback this year than I was last year."



He did not lose the 35 pounds overnight it looks like he lost it from mid OCT on. about 2 months. Not all season like originally noted and it sounds like it was monitored..

Please note the hi-lited parts if the medical staff was involved losing 8 pounds in s one week is above being abnormal..

And note the comment about it happening in mid OCT that is hardly "due to the rigors of playing an entire NFL season for the first time." that is 6 weeks into the schedule much like just the last 6 weeks on 2006..

Color me crazy, but the more I see out of this story the more my original questions are affirmed..

BroncoJoe
05-04-2008, 05:59 PM
He did not lose the 35 pounds overnight it looks like he lost it from mid OCT on. about 2 months. Not all season like originally noted and it sounds like it was monitored..

Please note the hi-lited parts if the medical staff was involved losing 8 pounds in s one week is above being abnormal..

And note the comment about it happening in mid OCT that is hardly "due to the rigors of playing an entire NFL season for the first time." that is 6 weeks into the schedule much like just the last 6 weeks on 2006..

Color me crazy, but the more I see out of this story the more my original questions are affirmed..

Everyone will believe what they want to believe. Nothing you highlighted makes me change my opinion. It's (weight loss, loss of energy) a fairly common occurrence for first-time starters in the NFL.

You don't like the leadership at Dove Valley. We all know that.

Tned
05-04-2008, 06:03 PM
You don't like the leadership at Dove Valley. We all know that.

Boy do we KNOW it at this point :shocked:

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 06:06 PM
Everyone will believe what they want to believe. Nothing you highlighted makes me change my opinion. It's (weight loss, loss of energy) a fairly common occurrence for first-time starters in the NFL.

You don't like the leadership at Dove Valley. We all know that.

The highlighted portions don't support any accusations that have been leveled.

BroncoJoe
05-04-2008, 06:08 PM
The highlighted portions don't support any accusations that have been leveled.

Yeah - it's funny he completely disregarded this "little" comment:


and that's probably my fault, because we were trying to schedule a blood test but I had a lot of things going on.

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 06:12 PM
Everyone will believe what they want to believe. Nothing you highlighted makes me change my opinion. It's (weight loss, loss of energy) a fairly common occurrence for first-time starters in the NFL.

You don't like the leadership at Dove Valley. We all know that.

Perhaps more will open their eyes an read between the lines. here.. Perhaps not.. It doth not make me less a fan than you..

Perhaps not. while mikey has done wonderful things in the Superbowl years and has satisfied most the of the fans desires by being competitive many other franchises have done the same thing with IMO lesser coaches.

As much as we dislike NE, Indy and PIT they all have something in common superb GM's.

Very few losing season in those towns also. It has not all been just coaching there either.. they were supplied with great talent and were allowed to win..


Now mikey has done better in personnel the past 2-3 years. I always have to wonder if we would have had a top notch GM for player decisions how many more games we might have won since the Elway dynasty..

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 06:21 PM
Yeah - it's funny he completely disregarded this "little" comment:


NO I saw that and while relevant IF it was important enough they would have made it happen.

I suspect someone on the staff knows how to draw blood it would have been a 5 minute ordeal..

BUT IMO NO ONE was paying attention..

I say it again..
make fun of me all you wish.. If you have a multi million dollar investment as a business man you insure it is treated well and make sure that Preventive maintenance is done to it..

Someone dropped the ball here.. Someone on the staff.. I'll bet that it will not happen again..

It was my job for decades to see things and fix them before they caused bigger problems, that is what a good manager does..

Just because I do not have that same job any longer does not turn off my instincts.. right or wrong I have saved my companies millions in dollars over my career because I paid attention to the smallest of details..

BroncoJoe
05-04-2008, 06:26 PM
Perhaps more will open their eyes an read between the lines. here.. Perhaps not.. It doth not make me less a fan than you..

Perhaps not. while mikey has done wonderful things in the Superbowl years and has satisfied most the of the fans desires by being competitive many other franchises have done the same thing with IMO lesser coaches.

As much as we dislike NE, Indy and PIT they all have something in common superb GM's.

Very few losing season in those towns also. It has not all been just coaching there either.. they were supplied with great talent and were allowed to win..


Now mikey has done better in personnel the past 2-3 years. I always have to wonder if we would have had a top notch GM for player decisions how many more games we might have won since the Elway dynasty..

Never called you "less of a fan", but it would be nice for you to get off your high horse.


NO I saw that and while relevant IF it was important enough they would have made it happen.

I suspect someone on the staff knows how to draw blood it would have been a 5 minute ordeal..

BUT IMO NO ONE was paying attention..

I say it again..
make fun of me all you wish.. If you have a multi million dollar investment as a business man you insure it is treated well and make sure that Preventive maintenance is done to it..

Someone dropped the ball here.. Someone on the staff.. I'll bet that it will not happen again..

It was my job for decades to see things and fix them before they caused bigger problems, that is what a good manager does..

Just because I do not have that same job any longer does not turn off my instincts.. right or wrong I have saved my companies millions in dollars over my career because I paid attention to the smallest of details..

You just don't get it, IMO. Players, historically, loose weight and energy when playing their first full NFL season. They wanted him to submit to testing, he didn't do it.

You want someone to blame, and your dislike of Shanahan and the FO for the Broncos organization is is a good place to start.

BroncoJoe
05-04-2008, 06:27 PM
P.S. Did you know the Broncos, since Shanahan came here in 1995, are the only team to not have a top 10 pick?

The only one.

ApaOps5
05-04-2008, 06:32 PM
Cutler also said in another article that he hates trainers and doctors and always tries to avoid them. So I think some of that played into his "busy" schedule.

At least he figured it out. If anything for his own well being.

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 06:39 PM
Never called you "less of a fan", but it would be nice for you to get off your high horse.



You just don't get it, IMO. Players, historically, loose weight and energy when playing their first full NFL season. They wanted him to submit to testing, he didn't do it.

You want someone to blame, and your dislike of Shanahan and the FO for the Broncos organization is is a good place to start.


Yes they do but as noted he said it started in mid OCT 6 weeks into the season NOT at the end of the season as previously thought..

He had played almost a full season the year before at least in practices and as scout QB.. and then the last 6-7 weeks of the year..

Now this is about the same time frame as what we are talking about start of season to mid OCT .. but there was a 8 pound lose in one week, mid OCT that my friend is about the biggest red flag someone can see.

3 pound sin a week not on my radar but 8 in one week and it sounds like they were monitoring it weekly OR it would not have been noticed..

thereafter 2-3 pounds a week.. Oct 4-6 pounds. November 8-12 pounds same for DEC 8-12 pounds that folks is not normal for players that is

8 in one week
4-6 in the rest of Oct
8-12 in Nov
8-12 in Dec
that is 28 to 36 pounds in that time frame.
If the the comments were correct it is not over the "rigors of his first full season"..

Sounds to me like this hit him in OCT and things went down hill fast.. with no one thinking it was problem..

Would you as a HC not insist that a blood test be done after the first 15 pounds were lost over a 3 week period?..

It would have hit my radar screen.

Tned
05-04-2008, 09:03 PM
Yes they do but as noted he said it started in mid OCT 6 weeks into the season NOT at the end of the season as previously thought..

He had played almost a full season the year before at least in practices and as scout QB.. and then the last 6-7 weeks of the year..

Now this is about the same time frame as what we are talking about start of season to mid OCT .. but there was a 8 pound lose in one week, mid OCT that my friend is about the biggest red flag someone can see.

3 pound sin a week not on my radar but 8 in one week and it sounds like they were monitoring it weekly OR it would not have been noticed..

thereafter 2-3 pounds a week.. Oct 4-6 pounds. November 8-12 pounds same for DEC 8-12 pounds that folks is not normal for players that is

8 in one week
4-6 in the rest of Oct
8-12 in Nov
8-12 in Dec
that is 28 to 36 pounds in that time frame.
If the the comments were correct it is not over the "rigors of his first full season"..

Sounds to me like this hit him in OCT and things went down hill fast.. with no one thinking it was problem..

Would you as a HC not insist that a blood test be done after the first 15 pounds were lost over a 3 week period?..

It would have hit my radar screen.

JR, like it or not, Bowlen clearly doesn't have the hatred, nor view Shanahan in the same light as you. Blaming 'Mikey' for everything from Cutler's diabetes to global warming isn't going to change the fact that he is likely to be the Broncos head coach for many years to come.

TXBRONC
05-04-2008, 09:55 PM
Yeah - it's funny he completely disregarded this "little" comment:

It's the syndrome of "Don't confuse me with facts I already have my mind made up.

Lonestar
05-04-2008, 11:55 PM
JR, like it or not, Bowlen clearly doesn't have the hatred, nor view Shanahan in the same light as you. Blaming 'Mikey' for everything from Cutler's diabetes to global warming isn't going to change the fact that he is likely to be the Broncos head coach for many years to come.

Perhaps he should be looking at his investment better than he has..

If my franchise QB had a problem that NO one took seriously till this spring, it "was to hectic" at the end of the season to take 5 minutes to get blood drawn to see if something was causing him to lose 35 pounds over 8-10 week period.. Sorry but someone is not minding the store IMO..

Now IF you all wish to believe otherwise, stick you head in the sand all you wish.. TO me it indicative of something is not right with the program..

There is plenty of koolade and the campfire is out back where they are singing kumbya..

BTW I've never believed in global warming so your mistaken with that comment.. YOU'd be hard pressed to find a post that said I did blame mikey for something I do not believe in..









;)

MOtorboat
05-04-2008, 11:58 PM
Blaming Shanahan for Cutler's diabetes is a little outrageous don't you think?

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 12:01 AM
Blaming Shanahan for Cutler's diabetes is a little outrageous don't you think?

I have not blamed mikey for it only that someone should have caught sooner than 6 months after it became apparent something was not right.


NOW if you can find somewhere I have said and mikey smote Jay with and affliction I'll delete it..

MOtorboat
05-05-2008, 12:03 AM
I have not blamed mikey for it only that someone should have caught sooner than 6 months after it became apparent something was not right.


NOW if you can find somewhere I have said and mikey smote Jay with and affliction I'll delete it..

Well, your insinuating that it's the Broncos fault that it wasn't "caught" earlier.

Took a good six months before my father was totally diagnosed with Diabetes. These things take time. Also keep in mind, this is when we found out, not Jay.

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 12:10 AM
Well, your insinuating that it's the Broncos fault that it wasn't "caught" earlier.

Took a good six months before my father was totally diagnosed with Diabetes. These things take time. Also keep in mind, this is when we found out, not Jay.

Jay found out last month April a bout 6 months after the biggest weight lose..8 pounds in ONE week..

Right in the middle of a season..

Did you dad have a doctor near his work place daily, a few trainers that tape him up..

Coaches that talked to him more than once a day..

someone should have raised their hand and asked what was wrong..

8 pounds in one week is way beyond abnormal.. 2-3 pounds a week thereafter..

and it was to hectic to draw blood..anytime during those 10 weeks .. It is not like he would have to go to a clinic to have it done like your dad would..

Please stop making excuses like everyone else is..

MOtorboat
05-05-2008, 12:11 AM
Jay found out last month April a bout 6 months after the biggest weight lose..8 pounds in ONE week..

Right in the middle of a season..

Did you dad have a doctor near his work place daily, a few trainers that tape him up..

Coaches that talked to him more than once a day..

someone should have raised their hand and asked what was wrong..

8 pounds in one week is way beyond abnormal.. 2-3 pounds a week thereafter..

and it was to hectic to draw blood..anytime during those 10 weeks .. It is not like he would have to go to a clinic to have it done like your dad would..

Please stop making excuses like everyone else is..

Ugh...seriously...you're blowing this way out of proportion.

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 12:14 AM
Ugh...seriously...you're blowing this way out of proportion.


thanks for your thoughts on it.. :salute:

MOtorboat
05-05-2008, 12:20 AM
thanks for your thoughts on it.. :salute:

Sorry...just sick of the never-ending "mikey" rants, blaming him for everything.

"Mikey" had nothing to do with Jay's diabetes. I don't find it a problem at all that Jay found out in the offseason that he had a disease. I will not blame a coach for a player's contracting of a disease, nor will I blame a team for not catching it "earlier". Was the weight loss a concern? Certainly, and guess what, the problem has been figured out and they are working on it. His life, and Pat's investment is not in danger. Thus...you're blowing it out of proportion.

honz
05-05-2008, 12:20 AM
Jay found out last month April a bout 6 months after the biggest weight lose..8 pounds in ONE week..

Right in the middle of a season..

Did you dad have a doctor near his work place daily, a few trainers that tape him up..

Coaches that talked to him more than once a day..

someone should have raised their hand and asked what was wrong..

8 pounds in one week is way beyond abnormal.. 2-3 pounds a week thereafter..

and it was to hectic to draw blood..anytime during those 10 weeks .. It is not like he would have to go to a clinic to have it done like your dad would..

Please stop making excuses like everyone else is..
I somewhat agree with you that they took their time in diagnosing his problem, but they freaking caught it before anything really bad happened, didn't they?

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 03:28 AM
I somewhat agree with you that they took their time in diagnosing his problem, but they freaking caught it before anything really bad happened, didn't they?

Yes they caught it and so far he has not died.

But people do die from it and he could have, he also could have caused heart, kidney or liver failures also.. There also could have been damage to the brain during a blood sugar overload..

Once again I understand that most fans think mikey and his surrogates walk on water.. Certainly more on here that are willing to overlook for what most of you think is a minor incident.

But had he stroked out while on the field just how many of the mikey lovers would be calling for his head..

I think this episode is indicative of something wrong in Dove Valley..

Obviously I'm one of the only ones here that does not want to forgive and forget..

SO be it..

Kapaibro
05-05-2008, 03:41 AM
Jay should have opened his damned mouth.

He is an adult, and the person most responsible for his health.

He KNEW something was off, and said NOTHING.

He says it's his fault, so why are we still discussing this????

Tned
05-05-2008, 06:59 AM
Perhaps he should be looking at his investment better than he has..

It's his franchise, he has made it clear he is comfortable with Shanahan running it.


If my franchise QB had a problem that NO one took seriously till this spring, it "was to hectic" at the end of the season to take 5 minutes to get blood drawn to see if something was causing him to lose 35 pounds over 8-10 week period.. Sorry but someone is not minding the store IMO..

Then send Cutler a letter giving him some fatherly advice. Cutler said that he was supposed to get a blood test at the end of the season, but he blew it off. He has said he hates doctors and trainers and he avoided them whenever possible.

Ever hear of someone talk about having a cold/flue and losing 5-8 lbs in a few days? I have. I am sure other's have. Cutler was an adult, he did have doctors at his disposal, but as HE has said, he chose to keep his fatigue and other symptoms to himself, because he doesn't like doctors.


Now IF you all wish to believe otherwise, stick you head in the sand all you wish.. TO me it indicative of something is not right with the program..

Ironically, sticking my head in the sand causes my contacts to feel gritty and results in scratched corneas, so I rarely do it.


There is plenty of koolade and the campfire is out back where they are singing kumbya..

Having twice deleted replies to this, I am going to leave it as "read what you are insinuating"


BTW I've never believed in global warming so your mistaken with that comment.. YOU'd be hard pressed to find a post that said I did blame mikey for something I do not believe in..

No, I added the global warming comment, knowing that you aren't one of these people 'blindly' following the media hype about it. Hopeing that outrageous comment would make you realize how outrageous/insulting your koolade/cult comments are.

TXBRONC
05-05-2008, 07:25 AM
It's his franchise, he has made it clear he is comfortable with Shanahan running it.



Then send Cutler a letter giving him some fatherly advice. Cutler said that he was supposed to get a blood test at the end of the season, but he blew it off. He has said he hates doctors and trainers and he avoided them whenever possible.

Ever hear of someone talk about having a cold/flue and losing 5-8 lbs in a few days? I have. I am sure other's have. Cutler was an adult, he did have doctors at his disposal, but as HE has said, he chose to keep his fatigue and other symptoms to himself, because he doesn't like doctors.



Ironically, sticking my head in the sand causes my contacts to feel gritty and results in scratched corneas, so I rarely do it.



Having twice deleted replies to this, I am going to leave it as "read what you are insinuating"



No, I added the global warming comment, knowing that you aren't one of these people 'blindly' following the media hype about it. Hopeing that outrageous comment would make you realize how outrageous/insulting your koolade/cult comments are.

Count me as one of those who has seen others lose that kind of weight in matter of a week and it nothing to do with diabetes.

And again no doctor can make a diagnoses if the patient doesn't tell him the other symptoms.

WARHORSE
05-05-2008, 09:26 AM
Perhaps more will open their eyes an read between the lines. here.. Perhaps not.. It doth not make me less a fan than you..

Perhaps not. while mikey has done wonderful things in the Superbowl years and has satisfied most the of the fans desires by being competitive many other franchises have done the same thing with IMO lesser coaches.

As much as we dislike NE, Indy and PIT they all have something in common superb GM's.

Very few losing season in those towns also. It has not all been just coaching there either.. they were supplied with great talent and were allowed to win..


Now mikey has done better in personnel the past 2-3 years. I always have to wonder if we would have had a top notch GM for player decisions how many more games we might have won since the Elway dynasty..


They also have another thing in common: Elite QB play. Think that has anything to do with it?

Every GM looks good when youre winning. Didnt you know that? Youre abilities become 'adept' instead of 'inept'.


Were allowed to win? Since Shanahan has been here, place our winning numbers right along side of NEs, Indys and Pittsburgs. What do you see?
You'll see that our org under Shannys leadership is preDOMINANTLY a winning franchise, along with two Lombardis. As for NEs THREE Lombardis, was it coaching, the GM or TOM BRADY that made the winning start happening there? Answer: Belichick was a whelp before Brady came to town, and so was the GM.

They "FELL" on a diamond in the 6th round of a draft. Right?

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 11:43 AM
They also have another thing in common: Elite QB play. Think that has anything to do with it?

Every GM looks good when youre winning. Didnt you know that? Youre abilities become 'adept' instead of 'inept'.


Were allowed to win? Since Shanahan has been here, place our winning numbers right along side of NEs, Indys and Pittsburgs. What do you see?
You'll see that our org under Shannys leadership is preDOMINANTLY a winning franchise, along with two Lombardis. As for NEs THREE Lombardis, was it coaching, the GM or TOM BRADY that made the winning start happening there? Answer: Belichick was a whelp before Brady came to town, and so was the GM.

They "FELL" on a diamond in the 6th round of a draft. Right?


Your correct in your assessments overall...

I would add that overall those teams are MUCH stronger and deeper than DEN is as we speak and in most cases it is because they have built that depth over the past 10 or more years..

NE had a pretty good QB before Brady and they won a lot of games with him also.. had it not been an injury to take him out who knows how many more years it might have taken to discover Brady or maybe even IF..

Yes we have had many winning seasons and alot of hope since mikey has been here..

But since the Super bowls these team has been in the decline in talent area ad finally hit bottom a couple of years ago.. Now we still won games and that was mainly because of mikey being a good coach.. mikey being a coach is not and has seldom been an issue for me.. I will never say that mikey via his play calling has not lost few games for us.. But will say overall his innovation has won games for us that we probably should not have won..

It is GM mikey that I have a problem with..

For the most part those other franchises have a as good or better winning record than we have had during the past 10-12 years. Yet they have been able to put together mostly via the draft those records.. That means they drafted well with what should have been equivalent bottom 15 if not bottom 10 choices in each round, but with slick maneuvering managed to get into the top 15 in most of these years or if not making great choice for the most part where they were..

IMO that boils down to having a full time professional GM on staff that works with the HC to build the team..

NightTrainLayne
05-05-2008, 11:51 AM
There you have it. . .

A better GM, and we would have caught the diabetes sooner. :smh:

BroncoWave
05-05-2008, 12:13 PM
I think JR knows he's wrong, he's just too bullheaded to ever admit it.

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 12:26 PM
I think JR knows he's wrong, he's just too bullheaded to ever admit it.

I'm not wrong about mikey the GM.. which really has nothing to do with this thread..

I firmly believe that someone dropped the ball, good businessmen just do not allow assets to fail IF they have the eye on the ball...