Dungy thinks tebow will be a "superstar qb"

[T.K.O.]

this is an older article (which gives it more credibility )but if you missed it it's worth a read and expresses similar thoughts to what mcD seemed to think about the kid..........
Tony Dungy: Tim Tebow will be a great NFL quarterback
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 30, 2009 9:54 AM ET
The biggest question mark in the 2010 NFL Draft is Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, who's viewed by some as a future franchise quarterback and by others as a guy who will need to move to another position if he'll ever make it as a pro.

Count Tony Dungy as emphatically believing that Tebow will be an NFL superstar.

Appearing Friday morning on The Dan Patrick Show, Dungy said he believes the combination of leadership and athletic ability that Tebow has will make him an elite NFL quarterback -- and more than make up for any questions about his throwing motion.

"As a coach, I always like winners," Dungy said. "Tim Tebow doesn't have the classic throwing motion, he doesn't have the accuracy, maybe, right now that some people are looking for, but I think when he gets into a pro system that really stresses throwing the ball accurately, the big thing is he makes the people around him better. And he's won. ... I think he's going to be a great player in the NFL."

Dungy said that if he were running a team with a Top 10 pick, he'd take Tebow. Patrick then asked Dungy who he'd pick for his team if he could have any of the top college quarterbacks, including Washington's Jake Locker, Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford and Texas's Colt McCoy. Dungy didn't hesitate and said, "I'm taking Tebow."

One of the knocks on Tebow is that during his stellar career in Florida's spread offense, he's never been asked to make the kinds of throws that quarterbacks in prototypical NFL offenses have to make. But Dungy said a good coach can take advantage of Tebow's strengths.

"Is it ever going to be Peyton Manning-ish? Maybe not," Dungy said of Tebow's throwing motion. "But I just think what you can do with him, the problems he creates for a defense, the combination of leadership and what he's shown, if I have him, defenses have to prepare for a totally different offense. ... He's going to give teams the most headaches getting ready for him."

Dungy also said he thinks the Titans are making the right move by starting Vince Young over Kerry Collins, and that if he were the coach of the Chiefs he'd get rid of Larry Johnson.

[jhildebrand]

this is an older article (which gives it more credibility )but if you missed it it's worth a read and expresses similar thoughts to what mcD seemed to think about the kid..........
Tony Dungy: Tim Tebow will be a great NFL quarterback
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 30, 2009 9:54 AM ET
The biggest question mark in the 2010 NFL Draft is Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, who's viewed by some as a future franchise quarterback and by others as a guy who will need to move to another position if he'll ever make it as a pro.

Count Tony Dungy as emphatically believing that Tebow will be an NFL superstar.



Appearing Friday morning on The Dan Patrick Show, Dungy said he believes the combination of leadership and athletic ability that Tebow has will make him an elite NFL quarterback -- and more than make up for any questions about his throwing motion.

"As a coach, I always like winners," Dungy said. "Tim Tebow doesn't have the classic throwing motion, he doesn't have the accuracy, maybe, right now that some people are looking for, but I think when he gets into a pro system that really stresses throwing the ball accurately, the big thing is he makes the people around him better. And he's won. ... I think he's going to be a great player in the NFL."

Dungy said that if he were running a team with a Top 10 pick, he'd take Tebow. Patrick then asked Dungy who he'd pick for his team if he could have any of the top college quarterbacks, including Washington's Jake Locker, Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford and Texas's Colt McCoy. Dungy didn't hesitate and said, "I'm taking Tebow."

One of the knocks on Tebow is that during his stellar career in Florida's spread offense, he's never been asked to make the kinds of throws that quarterbacks in prototypical NFL offenses have to make. But Dungy said a good coach can take advantage of Tebow's strengths.

"Is it ever going to be Peyton Manning-ish? Maybe not," Dungy said of Tebow's throwing motion. "But I just think what you can do with him, the problems he creates for a defense, the combination of leadership and what he's shown, if I have him, defenses have to prepare for a totally different offense. ... He's going to give teams the most headaches getting ready for him."

Dungy also said he thinks the Titans are making the right move by starting Vince Young over Kerry Collins, and that if he were the coach of the Chiefs he'd get rid of Larry Johnson.

Everybody has weighed in! Now let's get to OTA's, training camp, and preseason to see what the guy is going to do.

[BroncoWave]

I would definitely take the word of a Tony Dungy over some of these so-called "analysts" who have probably never played/coached a down of football in their lives.

[Nomad]

Everybody has weighed in! Now let's get to OTA's, training camp, and preseason to see what the guy is going to do.

Same here, tired of the jibber jabber from both sides of the Tebow fence, get on the field and prove yourselves both him and McDaniels!

[Northman]

Same here, tired of the jibber jabber from both sides of the Tebow fence, get on the field and prove yourselves both him and McDaniels!

/threads

[GGMoogly]

Everybody has weighed in! Now let's get to OTA's, training camp, and preseason to see what the guy is going to do.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!! I want to bask in the warm glow of pre-camp Tebowhype! WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Ain't life GRAND?:cheers:

[broncobryce]

Same here, tired of the jibber jabber from both sides of the Tebow fence, get on the field and prove yourselves both him and McDaniels!

Then why click on this story?:confused:

[Northman]

Great googly moogly

[Nomad]

Then why click on this story?:confused:

I didn't really read it, I was just replying to the other guys posts and somewhat agreeing!

[dogfish]

Then why click on this story?:confused:

yea, sorry nomad, but there's going to be an INSANE amount of chatter about tebow before he ever steps on the field. . . hasn't been a week since we drafted him, and at the very earliest he won't get to play any live game action until august. . .

we've got a long time to go, and every minute of it is probably gonna be filled with tebow talk. . . better either get used to it, or take a sabbatical until september. . . . :lol:

[T.K.O.]

this article was from months ago...thats why i said it was :"credible" it really is'nt part of the "post draft hysteria"
so it is a true perspective from a really good coach.
i too am taking a "wait and see" stand with tebow ,but it's encouraging to know how a coach other than mcD feels.:beer:

[silkamilkamonico]

I would definitely take the word of a Tony Dungy over some of these so-called "analysts" who have probably never played/coached a down of football in their lives.

With all due respect to Tim Tebow and Tony Dungy, Dungy said the same thing about Shaun King, who Dungy ended up cutting a SuperBowl winning QB for, and nobody else wanted.

Lets keep things in perspective.

[SOCALORADO.]

With all due respect to Tim Tebow and Tony Dungy, Dungy said the same thing about Shaun King, who Dungy ended up cutting a SuperBowl winning QB for, and nobody else wanted.

Lets keep things in perspective.

http://knowledgeactivism.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/tim-tebow-in-the-phil1.jpg
Tim Tebow carrying silkamilkamonico on his shoulders, yet again.
Silks feet hurt.

[silkamilkamonico]

http://knowledgeactivism.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/tim-tebow-in-the-phil1.jpg
Tim Tebow carrying silkamilkamonico on his shoulders, yet again.
Silks feet hurt.

LOL I do look cute.

[MileHiWildcat]

This is pretty laughable from Dungy. If the man had found a QB that could walk and chew gum at the same time while at Tampa, he would have won multiple Superbowls.

[tomjonesrocks]

Dungy has been a big-time advocate for a good period of time. That makes me feel better--except that he thought Shaun King was going to be a stud also.

His opinion isn't worthless even though he's been soundly proven wrong on QBs. Still respect the hell out of Dungy.

I wasn't happy with the draft pick but am now just wondering if there's something about Tebow. I just can't hate the guy--so am warming up to the idea of McDaniels proving me wrong. McDaniels has staked his career on it. Tebow seems a good dude so if I'm wrong--I'll do some celebratory handstands. Here's a Stone IPA McDaniels winds up proving he is the genius he thinks he is.

[WARHORSE]

With all due respect to Tim Tebow and Tony Dungy, Dungy said the same thing about Shaun King, who Dungy ended up cutting a SuperBowl winning QB for, and nobody else wanted.

Lets keep things in perspective.

Well lets find the coach that always made every decision that was right, never made a decision that was wrong. Then we can take into account what he says about Tebow. And lets act like Dilfer was going to win the superbowl for Tampa Bay as if he didnt have his chances.


Dilfer a superbowl winning QB? Yes. Inspite of him that is.

[dogfish]

Dungy has been a big-time advocate for a good period of time. That makes me feel better--except that he thought Shaun King was going to be a stud also.

His opinion isn't worthless even though he's been soundly proven wrong on QBs. Still respect the hell out of Dungy.

I wasn't happy with the draft pick but am now just wondering if there's something about Tebow. I just can't hate the guy--so am warming up to the idea of McDaniels proving me wrong. McDaniels has staked his career on it. Tebow seems a good dude so if I'm wrong--I'll do some celebratory handstands. Here's a Stone IPA McDaniels winds up proving he is the genius he thinks he is.

good call on the Stone. . . . :beer:

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Trent Dilfer had about as much to do with that win as his backup did.

[underrated29]

Did not Dungy also coach Peyton Manning?

Would we not think he has probably seen the best and worst of the qbs in the NFL?


I would think after coaching a crappy QB and a HOF like Manning he would know the traits that make a good QB.

[G_Money]

This is pretty laughable from Dungy. If the man had found a QB that could walk and chew gum at the same time while at Tampa, he would have won multiple Superbowls.

It's not his fault Tebow was still in elementary school then. Dungy just couldn't wait long enough for Tebow to become a man, so he moved towns and went with his 2nd best option, Manning.

It's not a crime.

~G

[silkamilkamonico]

Well lets find the coach that always made every decision that was right, never made a decision that was wrong. Then we can take into account what he says about Tebow. And lets act like Dilfer was going to win the superbowl for Tampa Bay as if he didnt have his chances.


Dilfer a superbowl winning QB? Yes. Inspite of him that is.


I'll just go ahead and stop at Shaun King. Shaun King.

[BroncoWave]

I'll just go ahead and stop at Shaun King. Shaun King.

Find me a coach who has never drafted a bust then you may actually have a point. :coffee:

[TXBRONC]

Find me a coach who has never drafted a bust then you may actually have a point. :coffee:

That's the only quarterback that I know of that he drafted.

[BroncoWave]

That's the only quarterback that I know of that he drafted.

Ok? That was very early in his career as a head coach as well. I'm sure he has learned alot since then, especially having worked with Peyton Manning for so long. I'll still certainly take the opinion of someone who has had success coaching football over the likes of a Kiper or McShay. If they were so good at evaluating talent why hasn't a pro team signed one of them as a scout?

[silkamilkamonico]

Find me a coach who has never drafted a bust then you may actually have a point. :coffee:

Can you argue that every coach has drafted a QB in a position that could be termed as a "bust"? Because I can't. On a higher note, let's take the flip side of your argument and point it towards Dungy, who I think is one of the best head coaches in the history of the NFL.

"How many franchise QB's did Dungy draft? 0? And he was looking for one in Tampa for how long?

[BroncoWave]

How many franchise QB's did Dungy draft? 0? And he was looking for one in Tampa for how long?

You're right, Dungy's opinion on quarterbacks is invalid because he never drafted a franchise QB. Glad we cleared that up! :beer:

[Ravage!!!]

I dont' think Dungy is a great coach. If winning regular season games with one of the greatest QBs to play, means that much... ok. But his playoff record, even with the best QB in the game... is losing.

But its not a coincidence that TWO separate teams went TO the Super Bowl after he left the team. Just sayin'..... not a coincidence.

But... its not hard to work with Manning, and workign with Manning doesn't make you a 'QB guru' or genius. Dungy is a good guy, would you really expect him to say something negative, even if he thought it?

[BroncoWave]

I dont' think Dungy is a great coach. If winning regular season games with one of the greatest coaches to play, means that much... ok. But his playoff record, even with the best QB in the game... is losing.

But its not a coincidence that TWO separate teams went TO the Super Bowl after he left the team. Just sayin'..... not a coincidence.

But... its not hard to work with Manning, and workign with Manning doesn't make you a 'QB guru' or genius. Dungy is a good guy, would you really expect him to say something negative, even if he thought it?

There's a difference between what he said about Tebow and being nice just to be nice. If he really thought negatively about Tebow, he might not state it, but I doubt he would exclaim that he would draft him with a top 10 pick if he had the chance.

[TXBRONC]

Ok? That was very early in his career as a head coach as well. I'm sure he has learned alot since then, especially having worked with Peyton Manning for so long. I'll still certainly take the opinion of someone who has had success coaching football over the likes of a Kiper or McShay. If they were so good at evaluating talent why hasn't a pro team signed one of them as a scout?

How do you know that teams haven't come calling and they turned them down? I'm not defending the in the least.

Yes Dungy was successful but that doesn't mean he knows how to evaluate quarterbacks. To fair it isn't an easy position to evaluate.

[claymore]

Dungy probably has nice things to say about Ryan leaf. Hopefully noone is putting stock into what Dungy is saying.

[silkamilkamonico]

You're right, Dungy's opinion on quarterbacks is invalid because he never drafted a franchise QB. Glad we cleared that up! :beer:

But, according to you, he must be credible because he is saying great things about Tebow. "Great logic" you got going on that one.

[TXBRONC]

Dungy probably has nice things to say about Ryan leaf. Hopefully noone is putting stock into what Dungy is saying.

If it's defensive personnel I would for sure listen what he had to say about them.

[rationalfan]

I dont' think Dungy is a great coach. If winning regular season games with one of the greatest coaches to play, means that much... ok. But his playoff record, even with the best QB in the game... is losing.

But its not a coincidence that TWO separate teams went TO the Super Bowl after he left the team. Just sayin'..... not a coincidence.

But... its not hard to work with Manning, and workign with Manning doesn't make you a 'QB guru' or genius. Dungy is a good guy, would you really expect him to say something negative, even if he thought it?

dungy has more super bowl rings than most coaches. he did win one with the colts, lest you forget.

[T.K.O.]

did kiper and mcshay say tebow was gonna be a bust ? i missed that part.
most people ive heard are just saying tebow will take some time before he could be a starter.
i also heard pete carroll said he wanted to get tebow and that "the team that got him got a great player"
i'm not saying any of these guys has crystal balls:laugh:
but there are a few coaches (belichick included)who have been pretty successful that had tebow on their radar ,so it's not like mcD is taking some crazyazz chance here.
he traded to acquire picks ....then got the guy he wanted with them,all in all pretty smart move.
and nobody will know if it pays off or not for at least 2 years

[BroncoWave]

But, according to you, he must be credible because he is saying great things about Tebow. "Great logic" you got going on that one.

Where did I say that? Kiper had great praise for the rest of our draft and I still don't put any more stock into that than his negativity about Tebow.

If a coach were to come out and say something negative about Tebow, I'd put much more stock into that than Kiper saying it. Show me some comments from current/former NFL coaches criticizing Tebow/the pick and I will give those credit.

[claymore]

If it's defensive personnel I would for sure listen what he had to say about them.

I think Wyche drafted all the good players In Tampa Bay that Dungy gets credit for. (Sapp, lynch and Brooks)

I cant think of one great player Dungy is responsible for drafting. I dont care either way, just sayin.

[TXBRONC]

I think Wyche drafted all the good players In Tampa Bay that Dungy gets credit for. (Sapp, lynch and Brooks)

I cant think of one great player Dungy is responsible for drafting. I dont care either way, just sayin.

As coach of Indianapolis he drafted Freeney, Mathis, Sanders, Cato June and several others.

[claymore]

As coach of Indianapolis he drafted Freeney, Mathis, Sanders, Cato June and several others.

Id say freeney could be considered great??? I think he had a 2 year period where he was feared.

[Northman]

did kiper and mcshay say tebow was gonna be a bust ? i missed that part.
most people ive heard are just saying tebow will take some time before he could be a starter.
i also heard pete carroll said he wanted to get tebow and that "the team that got him got a great player"
i'm not saying any of these guys has crystal balls:laugh:
but there are a few coaches (belichick included)who have been pretty successful that had tebow on their radar ,so it's not like mcD is taking some crazyazz chance here.
he traded to acquire picks ....then got the guy he wanted with them,all in all pretty smart move.
and nobody will know if it pays off or not for at least 2 years


Of course, if Carroll had said he was a crappy player everyone would discredit him and tell him to go back to the college ranks where he belongs and leave the big boys in the NFL. :lol:

[Ziggy]

Doesn't Polian do all the drafting in Indy?

[Ravage!!!]

Ok? That was very early in his career as a head coach as well. I'm sure he has learned alot since then, especially having worked with Peyton Manning for so long. I'll still certainly take the opinion of someone who has had success coaching football over the likes of a Kiper or McShay. If they were so good at evaluating talent why hasn't a pro team signed one of them as a scout?

Ok.. but you won't take the word of guy like... Steve Young?

[Ravage!!!]

Id say freeney could be considered great??? I think he had a 2 year period where he was feared.

Thats wrong.. Freeney is great. Probably one of the most dominating players at his position since being drafted.

[Ravage!!!]

Doesn't Polian do all the drafting in Indy?


Thats how I understood it.

However.... I noticed that the SD Chargers (and Chiefs, and Browns) haven't drafted as well since Schottenheimer left. So although the coaches don't have the "GM" title, most have a large impact on who's drafted.

[BroncoWave]

Ok.. but you won't take the word of guy like... Steve Young?

Why wouldn't I? He played QB at a very high level in the league for many years. I'd definitely take his opinion over Kiper/McShay.

[SOCALORADO.]

Why wouldn't I? He played QB at a very high level in the league for many years. I'd definitely take his opinion over Kiper/McShay.

Steve Young and Jaws are the only folks at E!SPN during the draft that i listened to. McShay is a complete hack, moron. And Kiper is the absolute KING of idiots. Speaking of Polian, what did he say a few years back about Kiper?

[BroncoWave]

Steve Young and Jaws are the only folks at E!SPN during the draft that i listened to. McShay is a complete hack, moron. And Kiper is the absolute KING of idiots. Speaking of Polian, what did he say a few years back about Kiper?

Don't forget Gruden, I really enjoyed him as part of this year's draft coverage.

[BroncoWave]

It was actually Bill Tobin, not Bill Polian who was their GM that had the scathing remarks for Kiper in 1994. Here was his quote:

"Who in the hell is Mel Kiper, anyway? To my knowledge, he's never put on a jockstrap, he's never been a player, and all of a sudden he's an expert. He's never been a scout. He's never been an administrator. Mel has no more credibility to do what he's doing than my neighbor. And my neighbor is a postman who doesn't even have season tickets."

[SOCALORADO.]

Don't forget Gruden, I really enjoyed him as part of this year's draft coverage.

yeah, Grudens OK. Sometimes he goes off a bit too much on a player, but he generally does OK. I would rather they just dump the Mcshays and Kipers simply because their idiots, and get a few more former players in there to discuss the draft.

[SOCALORADO.]

It was actually Bill Tobin, not Bill Polian who was their GM that had the scathing remarks for Kiper in 1994. Here was his quote:

"Who in the hell is Mel Kiper, anyway? To my knowledge, he's never put on a jockstrap, he's never been a player, and all of a sudden he's an expert. He's never been a scout. He's never been an administrator. Mel has no more credibility to do what he's doing than my neighbor. And my neighbor is a postman who doesn't even have season tickets."

Thats it. LOL!

[BroncoWave]

How do you know that teams haven't come calling and they turned them down? I'm not defending the in the least.


According to former Colts GM Bill Tobin, Kiper tried multiple times to get into the NFL and no one would hire him:

UHiUqL2KLiM

[Lancane]

Ok.. but you won't take the word of guy like... Steve Young?

Just cause you can play doesn't mean you can judge talent. It's actually one of the hardest things former players themselves have to overcome when they take on a job with a school or organization in some aspect to the field in question, whether it's as a coach or a scout.

Carroll, Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan, Gailey...even Mayock have said positive things about the kid, as did Michael Irvin. Steve Young told Mel Kiper that "Tebow was going into the ideal situation in Denver with McDaniels, and that we would see if Kiper is the guru he really thinks he is." That is what he told Kiper right after the pick when Kiper was gnawing at the carpet. I don't know what else Steve has said...but that was heard clearer then day.

And I don't buy into anything Kiper or McShay say, those two could F'up a lucid dream without doing shit. Leaf, Couch, Leinart, Young and Russell, these are just a few of the picks I remember one if not both pimping and stating were better then the others in those quarterback classes. Flacco and Cutler already proved them wrong, Kiper said that Leaf would be better then Manning and don't even get me started on their Russell love fest. The two are bonified dipshits who just happen to believe they know the draft. Mayock is a former NFL player, while Mel 'The Hair Helmet' Kiper is a former? He's never played football higher then high school, and he started analyzing the draft while going to community college? Yeah....okay!

:lol:

[Nomad]

Just cause you can play doesn't mean you can judge talent. It's actually one of the hardest things former players themselves have to overcome when they take on a job with a school or organization in some aspect to the field in question, whether it's as a coach or a scout.
Carroll, Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan, Gailey...even Mayock have said positive things about the kid, as did Michael Irvin. Steve Young told Mel Kiper that "Tebow was going into the ideal situation in Denver with McDaniels, and that we would see if Kiper is the guru he really thinks he is." That is what he told Kiper right after the pick when Kiper was gnawing at the carpet. I don't know what else Steve has said...but that was heard clearer then day.

And I don't buy into anything Kiper or McShay say, those two could F'up a lucid dream without doing shit. Leaf, Couch, Leinart, Young and Russell, these are just a few of the picks I remember one if not both pimping and stating were better then the others in those quarterback classes. Flacco and Cutler already proved them wrong, Kiper said that Leaf would be better then Manning and don't even get me started on their Russell love fest. The two are bonified dipshits who just happen to believe they know the draft. Mayock is a former NFL player, while Mel 'The Hair Helmet' Kiper is a former? He's never played football higher then high school, and he started analyzing the draft while going to community college? Yeah....okay!

:lol:

This is very true about being a former player! I loved playing the game my short stint of 7 yrs in my younger years but I'll never claim to be a great evaluator of talent though you do know what is is like to be on the field and have knowledge of the game and positions but IMO the NFL is a whole new world compared to HS ball!!

I hope Clausen is a bust because Kiper said he'd quit ESPN!!:elefant:

[TXBRONC]

Doesn't Polian do all the drafting in Indy?

Yes but I'll roll the dice and say I don't think he does it unilaterally.

[TXBRONC]

According to former Colts GM Bill Tobin, Kiper tried multiple times to get into the NFL and no one would hire him:

UHiUqL2KLiM

So because Tobin said it, it's gospel truth? A pissed off GM because his pick Trev Albers was raked over coals so he had ax to grind. You do realize that was what about 20 years. That being case how do you know that he hasn't been offered positions with organizations since then? Evenso I bet he makes more doing what he's doing now than he would as a scout. FTR Kiper was right about Albers he was a bust.

I prefer to listen to Mayock over Kiper nevertheless Kiper is not always wrong.

[Lancane]

So because Tobin said it, it's gospel truth? A pissed off GM because his pick Trev Albers was raked over coals so he had ax to grind. You do realize that was what about 20 years. That being case how do you know that he hasn't been offered positions with organizations since then? Evenso I bet he makes more doing what he's doing now than he would as a scout. FTR Kiper was right about Albers he was a bust.

I prefer to listen to Mayock over Kiper nevertheless Kiper is not always wrong.

Of course it's not gospel truth...but the numbnuts is wrong far more then right on his singular picks that are not of a consensus majority. And it's easy to be right far more then wrong when there are scouting agencies left and right and in house organizational scouts that can be paid a quick buck for their opinion. Not to mention all the Draftnik websites and so on...

How about this...what Draft analyst has been run off from collegiate practices? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been run out of the combine? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been cited for trying to sneak into private football camps or practices? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been told off by professional scouts, general managers and head coaches? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been offered a position with an NFL team? Matt Mayock.

ESPN sucks, they couldn't get Mayock and went with Kiper, they couldn't get Kirwan so hired McShay for NFL draft discussion programming with Kiper. They couldn't get a decent sports writers so stole Adam Schefter from the NFLN...

[TXBRONC]

Of course it's not gospel truth...but the numbnuts is wrong far more then right on his singular picks that are not of a consensus majority. And it's easy to be right far more then wrong when there are scouting agencies left and right and in house organizational scouts that can be paid a quick buck for their opinion. Not to mention all the Draftnik websites and so on...

How about this...what Draft analyst has been run off from collegiate practices? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been run out of the combine? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been cited for trying to sneak into private football camps or practices? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been told off by professional scouts, general managers and head coaches? Mel Kiper. What Draft analyst has been offered a position with an NFL team? Matt Mayock.

ESPN sucks, they couldn't get Mayock and went with Kiper, they couldn't get Kirwan so hired McShay for NFL draft discussion programming with Kiper. They couldn't get a decent sports writers so stole Adam Schefter from the NFLN...

I have to disagree a little bit with you. No matter how many draftnik sight and scouting agencies are out there it is still easier to be wrong more often than to be right. Look how badly the scouts missed on guys like Montana, Brady, TD, Rod Smith and Sharpe. And list is even longer for players that were thought of as can't miss yet they bombed.

Again I like Mayock a lot better than Kiper because I think he's a better judge of talent than Kiper.

[Lancane]

I have to disagree a little bit with you. No matter how many draftnik sight and scouting agencies are out there it is still easier to be wrong more often than to be right. Look how badly the scouts missed on guys like Montana, Brady, TD, Rod Smith and Sharpe. And list is even longer for players that were thought of as can't miss yet they bombed.

Again I like Mayock a lot better than Kiper because I think he's a better judge of talent than Kiper.

Montana was drafted back in 1979, when their was no real analytical draft market and coaches had more to do with the draft, there were scouts but only one or two agencies, most were still in house. The draft was held at different five star hotels in New York city, it was not the sport's extravaganza it is now. Kiper has been doing this since 81' when he was going to community college and began writing small draft publications. The point is, that in 1979 it was easier to mistake some solid talent more then it is today. And of those you mentioned, Davis and Brady were backup athletes at their position who never really had a full year at their positions in college, while Smith and Sharpe came from small division programs and were easily looked over...look at John Randle? If you look at the best undrafted free agents eight out of ten were from small programs that did not get a lot of coverage. The NFL has introduced more and more to the NFL, but it's still a problem...part of the reason why I still believe that their should be more then seven rounds in the draft.

We'll just have to disagree on Kiper...:D

[Ravage!!!]

Kiper also gets the most criticisms for his picks, because he is the one quoted the most for his picks. His draft board is the most famous. He started the entire concept of giving grades for draft picks and making that entire process, a market. Because of this, people have their eyes on HIS picks.. whether they want to bash it or not. They use Kiper's boards and picks to compare to other boards.

People watch Kiper's boards harder so that they can simply put it down... because thats what people like to do, aim and shoot at the guy on top of the hill.

[GGMoogly]

A storm is brewing in the West and it's going to Teblow the Kipers of the world away!:eek:

[BroncoSojia]

Bill Walsh once said that Rick Mirer would be the next Joe Montana.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'

[broncobryce]

Bill Walsh once said that Rick Mirer would be the next Joe Montana.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'

Yeah, but Mirer didn't play for the Broncos.:D

[Lancane]

Kiper also gets the most criticisms for his picks, because he is the one quoted the most for his picks. His draft board is the most famous. He started the entire concept of giving grades for draft picks and making that entire process, a market. Because of this, people have their eyes on HIS picks.. whether they want to bash it or not. They use Kiper's boards and picks to compare to other boards.

People watch Kiper's boards harder so that they can simply put it down... because thats what people like to do, aim and shoot at the guy on top of the hill.

Rav that is false, the draft prospect grading system was implimented in the late 80's in a joint effort of the NFL and independent scouting agencies. At
no time has Mel Kiper been under the employment of the NFL, specifically the NFLDAB which is consensus group of general managers, scouts and so forth who in fact advise NCAA athletes on their demand into the league and their potential to be picked and where, the base of their grade.

The point you're or I believe are trying to bring up is the NFL draft prospect point grade system, which was created by independent scouts with the help of Bill Walsh and a couple other well noted coaches, Mel Kiper was not involved in that aspect either, that was happening in the early 80's before Kiper was even a part of the draft scene. I have not read a thing outside of ESPN that credits Kiper with the accolades your giving him...give his big board which has nothing to do with either grading system, just the rise and fall of a players stock.

This is from Dickpedia:


Mel Kiper, Jr. (born July 25, 1960) is an ESPN analyst for the NFL draft, huge football nerd, and a dick. Since 1984, he has been a staple of ESPN's annual draft coverage, which begins in May and extends through the following April.
While ESPN has a storied history of launching the careers of irritating commentators, Kiper is surely in the upper echelon. His achievements include appearing at 24 consecutive drafts and somehow interrupting every single ESPN show ever to air. He is the most recognizable dick in conjunction with the NFL draft.

It is important to note that, in regards to football, Kiper does not have actual coaching or playing experience, and has been able to designate himself an expert simply by saying so, loudly, many times, without anyone questioning it. This is standard dick behavior.


Early life

While attending Essex Community College in Baltimore, Kiper decided to become the kind of dick that runs an obnoxious business while they are in school. Thus, he founded Kiper Enterprises, a modestly named draft information company. While this business was less dickish than, say, stealing an idea for a future million dollar corporation and claiming the idea was your own, it is still more obnoxious than selling "Major League Beer Pong" T-shirts to freshmen.

The big board

One of Kiper's most memorable contributions to the NFL draft is the "big board," a large chart on which he analyzes the order in which players should be drafted based on incomprehensible, vaguely relevant statistics only Kiper understands (also known as “statis-dicks”). Prior to the big board’s appearance on internet, Kiper would physically attach players names to a large white board with dollops of excess hair gel.

Kiper was the first commentator to begin analyzing players in terms of their "draft stock." In his quest to maintain the attention of his loud obnoxious enthusiastic fanbase, Kiper invented a system whereby a player’s “stock” rises and falls based on a variety of factors in the months leading up to the draft. These pre-draft months make up the optimal time for analyzing performance because talent scouts can focus on players’ public and private workouts rather than being distracted by the athletes’ other, less predictive activities, such as playing in football games.

Coach favorite

Many coaches and administrators enjoy hearing suggestions from Kiper. One big fan was Indianapolis Colts manager Bill Tobin who praised Kiper saying, "Who in the hell is Mel Kiper, anyway? I mean, here's a guy who criticizes everybody, whoever they take. In my knowledge of him, he's never even put on a jockstrap, he's never been a player, he's never been a coach, he's never been a scout, he's never been an administrator, and all of a sudden, he's an expert. Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he's doing than my neighbor, and my neighbor's a postman and he doesn't even have season tickets to the NFL."

Proof of genius

Though a dick, Mel Kiper is an infallible genius when it comes to scouting future NFL talent.

He once snidely remarked of the Colts, "That's why [they] keep picking number two every year," after their 1994 second overall selection. Kiper was widely critical of the Colts’ pick that year, Marshall Faulk, who turned out to be such a bust that he is expected to be inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame in the near future.

In 2005, Kiper praised 8th overall selection, wide receiver Mike Williams, saying, "I'll see you at his Hall of Fame induction." Many people have yet to fully recognize the abilities Kiper saw in Williams. These people include coaches, fans, analysts, referees, the players on the teams he played for and against, and anyone else who has seen him in a football jersey. Williams’ journey to the Hall of Fame suffered a slight detour in 2007 when he stopped playing football and no one wanted to sign him.

In 1999, he touted the potential of Oregon quarterback Akili Smith to exceed at the professional level. Fans have high hopes for Smith to have a great season this year and to make a big statement in his league.

In 1998, Kiper argued that Ryan Leaf, 2nd overall pick, had an attitude that would be an asset in the NFL. He has since become one of professional football's most notable quarterbacks.

In 2001, Kiper predicted a dismal 0-16 season for the New England Patriots. The team finished slightly better than that prediction, managing to win just one Super Bowl the entire season.


All in all he made a small contribution to where the draft is at now...more highly watched on NFLN than ESPN...lol. And yes, his big board...but even a jackass does something right now then.

:lol:

[Ravage!!!]

You used a LOT of space to zoom on one tiny detail that didn't make a single thing of my point incorrect.

The point is, Mel Kiper is the BIGGEST name when it comes to the draft board. His picks are compared, used, talked about, and ridiculed. Whether you like him or dislike him, you LOOK at his boards PURELY on the basis to see what HE has ranked....even if its to tear it apart with YOUR opinion.

So you used a lot of quote to not account for anything. The only thing you quoted, is a jaded perspective that is dripping with bias. Its a joke that you even quoted that.

Either way.... the point is that yes, Kiper is criticized and called out.... because he is STILL the top name when 'talking' the draft. Even if you don't like his opinion, his name is the most recognized, thus.. the most aimed at by those that attempt to shoot down the biggest dog in the fight.

[BroncoWave]

You used a LOT of space to zoom on one tiny detail that didn't make a single thing of my point incorrect.

The point is, Mel Kiper is the BIGGEST name when it comes to the draft board. His picks are compared, used, talked about, and ridiculed. Whether you like him or dislike him, you LOOK at his boards PURELY on the basis to see what HE has ranked....even if its to tear it apart with YOUR opinion.

So you used a lot of quote to not account for anything. The only thing you quoted, is a jaded perspective that is dripping with bias. Its a joke that you even quoted that.

Either way.... the point is that yes, Kiper is criticized and called out.... because he is STILL the top name when 'talking' the draft. Even if you don't like his opinion, his name is the most recognized, thus.. the most aimed at by those that attempt to shoot down the biggest dog in the fight.

Just because he's the most famous doesn't mean he's the most credible.

[Lancane]

You used a LOT of space to zoom on one tiny detail that didn't make a single thing of my point incorrect.

The point is, Mel Kiper is the BIGGEST name when it comes to the draft board. His picks are compared, used, talked about, and ridiculed. Whether you like him or dislike him, you LOOK at his boards PURELY on the basis to see what HE has ranked....even if its to tear it apart with YOUR opinion.

So you used a lot of quote to not account for anything. The only thing you quoted, is a jaded perspective that is dripping with bias. Its a joke that you even quoted that.

Either way.... the point is that yes, Kiper is criticized and called out.... because he is STILL the top name when 'talking' the draft. Even if you don't like his opinion, his name is the most recognized, thus.. the most aimed at by those that attempt to shoot down the biggest dog in the fight.

I would disagree, I think Mayock is more well known at this time. But I have to admit I did not take into account that ESPN has a larger fan base. He's still a **** Rav, and his contributions are not at all that major. We'll just have to disagree...

;)

[silkamilkamonico]

If a coach were to come out and say something negative about Tebow, I'd put much more stock into that than Kiper saying it. Show me some comments from current/former NFL coaches criticizing Tebow/the pick and I will give those credit.

Has a coach ever come out and said anything negative about any QB draft prospect? Has a coach ever come out and said anything negative about any draft prospect period?

I'm sorry, but you don't hear coaches coming out and saying things like that, which is why it's hard to take them at face value. I'm not going to say analysts are "right", but I'm sure not listening to a coach give comments about players drafted, because they have to actually coach against them, or sometimes even with them.

[sakic_avs]

Just because he's the most famous doesn't mean he's the most credible.

Please refrain from trying to discredit any poster who brings up anything negative about the draft or McDaniels. We all know, based on posts from the admin that every thread is started to bash Cutler and Marshall. I need to ask you to play nice and bash those players while ignoring everything else. Thank you.

[silkamilkamonico]

I would disagree, I think Mayock is more well known at this time. But I have to admit I did not take into account that ESPN has a larger fan base. He's still a **** Rav, and his contributions are not at all that major. We'll just have to disagree...

;)

Mayock has been more right about QB prospects than Kiper has been in the past. If someone wants to go back and look at Mel Kiper evaluate QB's, they would say he's absolutely terrible at it.

Mayock (or maybe it's McShay) has been good about QB's. Now that I think about it, maybe it is McShay.

**** it, it sure as hell isn't Kiper.

[Lancane]

Mayock has been more right about QB prospects than Kiper has been in the past. If someone wants to go back and look at Mel Kiper evaluate QB's, they would say he's absolutely terrible at it.

Mayock (or maybe it's McShay) has been good about QB's. Now that I think about it, maybe it is McShay.

**** it, it sure as hell isn't Kiper.

That would be Mayock Silk. McShay said back in October that J. Snead was the best quarterback prospect in the draft or would be and was a sure-fire first round pick. He also believed that Russell was the next great quarterback. He's a Kiper clone...lol.

[silkamilkamonico]

He's a Kiper clone...lol.

My first perception in reading this was "he's a Kiper clown". That might be correct also.

[GGMoogly]

I like Mel, he's entertaining. He's just a geek like we are except he has a helmet head. I probably like Mayock better. I really don't pay attention to anything those guys say, but I like to watch them because I'm an out-of-control football fan!:elefant:

[Lonestar]

yeah, Grudens OK. Sometimes he goes off a bit too much on a player, but he generally does OK. I would rather they just dump the Mcshays and Kipers simply because their idiots, and get a few more former players in there to discuss the draft.

While I think mcshay and kipper are generally dolts I still like to hear their take on someone.

Just as I listen to the left and the right in politics and filter out the BS. and make A reasoned logical decision.

[Lonestar]

Rav that is false, the draft prospect grading system was implimented in the late 80's in a joint effort of the NFL and independent scouting agencies. At
no time has Mel Kiper been under the employment of the NFL, specifically the NFLDAB which is consensus group of general managers, scouts and so forth who in fact advise NCAA athletes on their demand into the league and their potential to be picked and where, the base of their grade.

The point you're or I believe are trying to bring up is the NFL draft prospect point grade system, which was created by independent scouts with the help of Bill Walsh and a couple other well noted coaches, Mel Kiper was not involved in that aspect either, that was happening in the early 80's before Kiper was even a part of the draft scene. I have not read a thing outside of ESPN that credits Kiper with the accolades your giving him...give his big board which has nothing to do with either grading system, just the rise and fall of a players stock.

This is from Dickpedia:



All in all he made a small contribution to where the draft is at now...more highly watched on NFLN than ESPN...lol. And yes, his big board...but even a jackass does something right now then.

:lol:

IIRC The Broncos joined the Cowboy drafting/scouting "combine/group" for lack of a better term way back when the Cowboys had this down to a science as compared to the rest of the NFl.

It was started by their head scout who became a GM that was a guru can't think of his name now but I saw him in the stands at the combine.

[Mr D]

Mock drafts are fun - that's pretty much it and after the 5th pick all of them are usually pretty bad. However Kiper did the best this year (10/32).

The problem with mock drafts and "experts" like McShay - they were never coaches in the NFL on any level, and they pretty much disregard everything that has to do with scheme, etc. They're not living from a coaches perspective. They're simply playing games with these mock drafts. That's why mock drafts are so far off.

How much time do they really get to spend watching a player? Do they watch them live? What do they know about building a good team?

However - one thing that mock drafts are good for is to gauge talent level.

With all that being said - McShay is probably the worst analyst of all time. He's an idiot, when he speaks you want to throw an upper cut at his chin, and by the way he talks you would think he's God of draft.

Kiper says things like ... Player X would be a great fit for team Z.

McShay says things like ... Team Z should take player X.

McShay is a moron...

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Mel Kiper is a hack didn't you guys see the thread I posted a few months ago? It pretty much proved him to be the nobody he is even though it was all humor.