No Huddle Offense

[Superchop 7]

If you pull it off at the right time it can be devestating.

Jay should have enough of the playbook down.

Thoughts?

[Tned]

If you pull it off at the right time it can be devestating.

Jay should have enough of the playbook down.

Thoughts?

Which playbook? Heimerdingers which we will hopefully be throwing in the trash? Or, Shanny's, which Jay will hopefully be learning in the OTA's?

[MOtorboat]

Kubiak's :elefant:

[Buff]

Let's not kid ourselves... It's been Shanahan's playbook all along, why do you think dinger left? He wanted to call the shots. And Kubiak was just a retired backup QB before he met Shanny.

More to the point, I do think we should run some no huddle... We've seen Peyton kill us with it, and Jay has always run the 2 minute offense pretty well. Not to mention the advantage it gives over opposing defensive linemen at 5,280 ft.

[MOtorboat]

Let's not kid ourselves... It's been Shanahan's playbook all along, why do you think dinger left? He wanted to call the shots. And Kubiak was just a retired backup QB before he met Shanny.

Then why has the offense changed since he left...:confused:

Shanahan's playbook is definitely different than Kubiak's...but Mike trusted Kubiak...he didn't trust Dinger...and I think that was a big part of the problem. We'll see what happens this year, but I expect this to be a more traditional west coast type offense...three-five step drops...with the occasional play-fake and go long...

What has Shanahan talked about a lot this offseason...getting Cutler to take the dump off and not go for it all on every play...

[Buff]

Then why has the offense changed since he left...:confused:

Shanahan's playbook is definitely different than Kubiak's...but Mike trusted Kubiak...he didn't trust Dinger...and I think that was a big part of the problem. We'll see what happens this year, but I expect this to be a more traditional west coast type offense...three-five step drops...with the occasional play-fake and go long...

What has Shanahan talked about a lot this offseason...getting Cutler to take the dump off and not go for it all on every play...

I agree Cutler needs to hit the cut-off more often ;)

I don't see Kubiak's offense being much different from Shanahan's... They're both based around the running game, and the zone stretch play which opens up playaction and the rest of the passing game.

[MOtorboat]

I agree Cutler needs to hit the cut-off more often ;)

I don't see Kubiak's offense being much different from Shanahan's... They're both based around the running game, and the zone stretch play which opens up playaction and the rest of the passing game.

I think we see more pocket-type passing this year, unless either Henry or Torain emerge as a 1500 yard type back.

[Slick]

Buff makes a good point about making the altutude work even more in our favor, but, short time of possession would not be good for this defense. They're the ones we should keep on the sideline.

[Tned]

I think we see more pocket-type passing this year, unless either Henry or Torain emerge as a 1500 yard type back.

I hope what we see is more of the offense that gained Shanahan the "mastermind" moniker.

There was a time when they said if you gave Shanahan two weeks to game plan, he could beat anyone.

The reason for this is that he would break down the other teams tendencies, but more importantly design new formations, or at least formation variations that were brand new.

Even when he didn't have two weeks, during the course of the regular season EVERY week there would be a new formation or two that hadn't been seen before. Even though the base plays were very similar -- cut back run, half back toss, QB rollout pass to TE, RB off tackle with cutback option, etc., the plays were run from a great many different formations.

He would do things like open with a single back formation and motion a TE into the backfield, or start with a two back formation and motion a back wide or to the TE spot. Basically, the formations were the start. Make it very hard for the opposition to know which defensive package to put on the field, because even though that team had studied film, this week the Broncos were running the 'same' plays, from different formations, therefore the defense was constantly off balance.

So, the first thing, is getting back to the formation-based confusion.

Then, the misdirection. The last two years, presumably with Heimerdingers influence, the Broncos have gotten away from misdirection football. They have employed more shotgun, more straight drop back passing, more predictable running. Now I think this is likely partially the heimerdinger scheme (deep drop back passing, more pocket passing, straight play action, vs. rollout play actions), but also partially due to having backs not as good at cutback running.

When the Broncos offense has been the most successful in the 13 years under Shanny, cutback runs and misdirection have been a staple of the offense. The plays, and execution, were designed to get the defense flowing in one direction and OVERpersuing, and then nail them with a cut back run, or bootleg play action to the back side. These were the plays that typically resulted in huge gains.

If the defense decided to keep an end or linebacker committed to bottling up the cutback run or bootleg by the QB, then there were holes on the front side of the play and the zone blocking would open up holes for an off tack or up the middle or stretch run.

The point is, the offense was all about misdirection and formation confusion. While I am willing to say that some of the recent failures could be players unable to execute the game plan, not being suited to cut back running, the linemen no longer opening holes, I in all honesty can only believe that is a small part of it. The reason is that the lack of creative formations, the traditional drop back passing, all of these 'clues' I witnessed the last two years tell me that the change in offense was less about players unable to execute and more about coaches attempting to 'fix' or change an offensive strategy.

Let's remember, it was announced that Heimerdinger was gong to open up the passing game, bring a new dimension to the passing game, etc. Unfortunately, from where I sat, there attempt to do that resulted in the elimination of the Bronco basics. The fundamentals that had made the Broncos offense one of the most successful in the NFL from '95 to 2005. The offense that led in so many statistical categories during that time.

Anyway, I know I rambled and I don't have time to check this post, as I am being called away from the computer. I might pop open the laptop in bed after a while and see how badly I mangled this post as I rushed to get it in before being yelled at by the spouse.

[omac]

I hope what we see is more of the offense that gained Shanahan the "mastermind" moniker.

There was a time when they said if you gave Shanahan two weeks to game plan, he could beat anyone.

The reason for this is that he would break down the other teams tendencies, but more importantly design new formations, or at least formation variations that were brand new.

Even when he didn't have two weeks, during the course of the regular season EVERY week there would be a new formation or two that hadn't been seen before. Even though the base plays were very similar -- cut back run, half back toss, QB rollout pass to TE, RB off tackle with cutback option, etc., the plays were run from a great many different formations.

He would do things like open with a single back formation and motion a TE into the backfield, or start with a two back formation and motion a back wide or to the TE spot. Basically, the formations were the start. Make it very hard for the opposition to know which defensive package to put on the field, because even though that team had studied film, this week the Broncos were running the 'same' plays, from different formations, therefore the defense was constantly off balance.

So, the first thing, is getting back to the formation-based confusion.

Then, the misdirection. The last two years, presumably with Heimerdingers influence, the Broncos have gotten away from misdirection football. They have employed more shotgun, more straight drop back passing, more predictable running. Now I think this is likely partially the heimerdinger scheme (deep drop back passing, more pocket passing, straight play action, vs. rollout play actions), but also partially due to having backs not as good at cutback running.

When the Broncos offense has been the most successful in the 13 years under Shanny, cutback runs and misdirection have been a staple of the offense. The plays, and execution, were designed to get the defense flowing in one direction and OVERpersuing, and then nail them with a cut back run, or bootleg play action to the back side. These were the plays that typically resulted in huge gains.

If the defense decided to keep an end or linebacker committed to bottling up the cutback run or bootleg by the QB, then there were holes on the front side of the play and the zone blocking would open up holes for an off tack or up the middle or stretch run.

The point is, the offense was all about misdirection and formation confusion. While I am willing to say that some of the recent failures could be players unable to execute the game plan, not being suited to cut back running, the linemen no longer opening holes, I in all honesty can only believe that is a small part of it. The reason is that the lack of creative formations, the traditional drop back passing, all of these 'clues' I witnessed the last two years tell me that the change in offense was less about players unable to execute and more about coaches attempting to 'fix' or change an offensive strategy.

Let's remember, it was announced that Heimerdinger was gong to open up the passing game, bring a new dimension to the passing game, etc. Unfortunately, from where I sat, there attempt to do that resulted in the elimination of the Bronco basics. The fundamentals that had made the Broncos offense one of the most successful in the NFL from '95 to 2005. The offense that led in so many statistical categories during that time.

Anyway, I know I rambled and I don't have time to check this post, as I am being called away from the computer. I might pop open the laptop in bed after a while and see how badly I mangled this post as I rushed to get it in before being yelled at by the spouse.

I think we have seen some of Shanny's creativeness on offense last season. The game against the Colts, Shanny used a 2 (or was it 3) TE set, and the line looked like a moving wall for our RBs to run through. It was pretty successful, until our defense couldn't stop their rushing. Also, the play against Buffalo, where, from our own endzone, Jay runs to the outside with Travis beside him, then laterals to Travis. That was a pretty big gain.

But you are right, the offense at times seemed quite predictable.

[Tned]

I posted this the other day in another thread. Prior to the Thanksgiving game against the Cowboys in the AFCCG year, Parcells when asked about the Broncos said something like, "The Broncos only run about five plays, but they run them very well and they run those five plays out of a variety of formations to disguise what they are doing" or something like that.

Well, I think the "five plays" is Parcells anti-exageration, but the point was correct. They previous Shanny/Kubiak offense was pretty simple, but effective:

Unique formations to confuse the defense in terms of what package they needed to put on the field and then when it came to running the plays, it was all about misdirection. Running plays designed to get the defense flowing in one direction to stop the run, only to gash them with a play to the backside.

Through coaching or personell, most of that was gone the last two years.

[gobroncsnv]

The above is why we, of all teams, need to keep away from running back by committee. Back when it was Anderson/Bell, the play was either going inside or outside, depending on who was in. Shanny likes to have options to call from ANY formation, but was limited by the running style the back had.
I would like to see some no huddle, say about in the middle of the 2nd quarter when the other team is finding it hard to breath at this point of the game, then we slam their faces with it. Would be fun to watch.

[Lonestar]

Let's not kid ourselves... It's been Shanahan's playbook all along, why do you think dinger left? He wanted to call the shots. And Kubiak was just a retired backup QB before he met Shanny.

More to the point, I do think we should run some no huddle... We've seen Peyton kill us with it, and Jay has always run the 2 minute offense pretty well. Not to mention the advantage it gives over opposing defensive linemen at 5,280 ft.


I think until everyone knows each others name on offense and more specifically the OLINE there will be very little trick plays and even less no huddle.. Mikey play book with the different formations mostly doing the same thing. It would probably confuse the blocking assignments more than it would help with the altitude issue..

I suspect if we every get another great RB that can take a pitch out like TD used to that will be added back into the playbook before no huddle..

Just having more than a running game or Marshal will do more damage than we think..

[Superchop 7]

The objective is to score.

Don't worry about the defense, worrry about the end zone.

[dogfish]

I think until everyone knows each others name on offense and more specifically the OLINE there will be very little trick plays and even less no huddle..

exactly. . .




Then why has the offense changed since he left...:confused:




raises an interesting question, doesn't it? has it changed because of kubiak's departure, or has it changed because cutler is a different quarterback from plummer, and we had to get jake on the move as much as possible to maximize his effectiveness?


i sure don't see as many play-action boots as i used to. . .

[DenBronx]

If you pull it off at the right time it can be devestating.

Jay should have enough of the playbook down.

Thoughts?



i like it, i love it, i want some more of it!

[WARHORSE]

I definitely think we should run the no huddle. Not as our mainstay, but to keep defenses and d-coordinators off balance. Give them more work to do, more to plan for, more to practice.

Id like to run it in any and all different circumstances.

[Retired_Member_001]

But you are right, the offense at times seemed quitepredictable.

WR Screens.

:mad:

[gobroncsnv]

raises an interesting question, doesn't it? has it changed because of kubiak's departure, or has it changed because cutler is a different quarterback from plummer, and we had to get jake on the move as much as possible to maximize his effectiveness?

i sure don't see as many play-action boots as i used to. . .

I also think that the opponents really started reading for this. We went to the well on this a bit too often, and also, the tackles on either side didn't hold up their end of the deal, especially right side. Seems like you would see the DE's run straight up the field for contain, and lo and behold, there was Jay with the ball right in their lap.

[LRtagger]

I hope what we see is more of the offense that gained Shanahan the "mastermind" moniker.

There was a time when they said if you gave Shanahan two weeks to game plan, he could beat anyone.

The reason for this is that he would break down the other teams tendencies, but more importantly design new formations, or at least formation variations that were brand new.

Even when he didn't have two weeks, during the course of the regular season EVERY week there would be a new formation or two that hadn't been seen before. Even though the base plays were very similar -- cut back run, half back toss, QB rollout pass to TE, RB off tackle with cutback option, etc., the plays were run from a great many different formations.

He would do things like open with a single back formation and motion a TE into the backfield, or start with a two back formation and motion a back wide or to the TE spot. Basically, the formations were the start. Make it very hard for the opposition to know which defensive package to put on the field, because even though that team had studied film, this week the Broncos were running the 'same' plays, from different formations, therefore the defense was constantly off balance.

So, the first thing, is getting back to the formation-based confusion.

Then, the misdirection. The last two years, presumably with Heimerdingers influence, the Broncos have gotten away from misdirection football. They have employed more shotgun, more straight drop back passing, more predictable running. Now I think this is likely partially the heimerdinger scheme (deep drop back passing, more pocket passing, straight play action, vs. rollout play actions), but also partially due to having backs not as good at cutback running.

When the Broncos offense has been the most successful in the 13 years under Shanny, cutback runs and misdirection have been a staple of the offense. The plays, and execution, were designed to get the defense flowing in one direction and OVERpersuing, and then nail them with a cut back run, or bootleg play action to the back side. These were the plays that typically resulted in huge gains.

If the defense decided to keep an end or linebacker committed to bottling up the cutback run or bootleg by the QB, then there were holes on the front side of the play and the zone blocking would open up holes for an off tack or up the middle or stretch run.

The point is, the offense was all about misdirection and formation confusion. While I am willing to say that some of the recent failures could be players unable to execute the game plan, not being suited to cut back running, the linemen no longer opening holes, I in all honesty can only believe that is a small part of it. The reason is that the lack of creative formations, the traditional drop back passing, all of these 'clues' I witnessed the last two years tell me that the change in offense was less about players unable to execute and more about coaches attempting to 'fix' or change an offensive strategy.

Let's remember, it was announced that Heimerdinger was gong to open up the passing game, bring a new dimension to the passing game, etc. Unfortunately, from where I sat, there attempt to do that resulted in the elimination of the Bronco basics. The fundamentals that had made the Broncos offense one of the most successful in the NFL from '95 to 2005. The offense that led in so many statistical categories during that time.

Anyway, I know I rambled and I don't have time to check this post, as I am being called away from the computer. I might pop open the laptop in bed after a while and see how badly I mangled this post as I rushed to get it in before being yelled at by the spouse.


Yep...those were back in the good old days when we would score a TD on 99% of opening drives. Now we are lucky to get field goals on opening drives. Those were the good ol days.

[Lonestar]

Yep...those were back in the good old days when we would score a TD on 99% of opening drives. Now we are lucky to get field goals on opening drives. Those were the good ol days.

actually we were probably lucky if we did not have to punt on the first drive.. certainly a long time since the SB years..