Do you think Jay will have 4,000 yards passing? What about 4,500?

[lex]

It seems like we're loading up on options for Jay to throw to. It looks like we're a passing team now (or at least like maybe we should become a passing team now). Consider that we drafted Royal and Hillis and signed Alridge along with signing 3 WRs this past offseason.

[Ziggy]

Lex, let me be the first to congatulate you on starting a positive thread. It's a nice change. As far as the question, 4000 is a possibility. A lot of it depends on the defense and whether or not they can get off the field.

[lex]

Lex, let me be the first to congatulate you on starting a positive thread. It's a nice change. As far as the question, 4000 is a possibility. A lot of it depends on the defense and whether or not they can get off the field.


You probably dont want to know what made me contemplate passing the ball more.

[Lonestar]

I suspect not as most of the team will take part of the year to jell there are WAY to many newbies that Will make the team and alot of them Older guys will be 3 years or less.

The OLINE will be the biggest factor here and as of right now Nalen and Holland have all but 4 or 5 games next to each other.. Depending on OLG that may be the extreme longevity..

Even if Nalen Hamilton and Holland line up in their old spots they are gonna still have to get used to each other again.. and IMO both tackles will be rookies at their position this year..


AS a general rule there have been very few 4000 yard passing seasons in DEN.

Maybe 2009

[EastCoastBronco]

The way BM gets yards after the catch he should be good for 1000-1500 all by himself...

[TXBRONC]

Probably not this year.

[MOtorboat]

Probably not this year.

Exactly my thoughts....but 2009, 2010, 2011...oh yeah, definitely a possibility...

[Tned]

Only if the Broncos can't get back to being one of the top rushing teams in the league. Remember, Shanny in recent history has been second only to Pitt in precentage of run plays (about 50/50).

When you consider Elway only once threw for 4,000 yards, and that was before Shanny was the head coach, and that when Shanny was coach, Elway averaged around 3,600 yards (give or take, adjusted for injury shortened years). Plummer broke 4,000 one year, but the running game was so/so (the Droughns year) and the Broncos threw a lot.

I think that if the running game is going the way the Broncos want it to and the Broncos are scoring and getting out to leads, then Cutler likely doesn't throw for 4,000 yards. Instead, the Broncos jump out to early leads, and then ride the running game to the win with strategic passing to keep the opponents honest. That's what Shanahan has done when his offense is working well.

If on the other hand we have trouble routinely running the ball or getting out to leads and our consistantly playing catchup, then I think he has a chance to pass for 4,000, whether this year or in the future.

So, I don't think that it is so much whether Cutler can, but whether the Broncos are consistantly in the lead or trailing in games that will determine it.

[broncohead]

I could see us resorting to the pass more expecially if Henry doesn't stand by his word or he gets injured. I wouldn't be surprised to see us come close to 4,000 but I dont us getting any more.

[MOtorboat]

Only if the Broncos can't get back to being one of the top rushing teams in the league. Remember, Shanny in recent history has been second only to Pitt in precentage of run plays (about 50/50).

When you consider Elway only once threw for 4,000 yards, and that was before Shanny was the head coach, and that when Shanny was coach, Elway averaged around 3,600 yards (give or take, adjusted for injury shortened years). Plummer broke 4,000 one year, but the running game was so/so (the Droughns year) and the Broncos threw a lot.

I think that if the running game is going the way the Broncos want it to and the Broncos are scoring and getting out to leads, then Cutler likely doesn't throw for 4,000 yards. Instead, the Broncos jump out to early leads, and then ride the running game to the win with strategic passing to keep the opponents honest. That's what Shanahan has done when his offense is working well.

If on the other hand we have trouble routinely running the ball or getting out to leads and our consistantly playing catchup, then I think he has a chance to pass for 4,000, whether this year or in the future.

So, I don't think that it is so much whether Cutler can, but whether the Broncos are consistantly in the lead or trailing in games that will determine it.

If we have a 1,500 yard back, he won't get 4,000 yards. That's a good point Tned, but I think todays game is changing that. I think we're good if someone rushes for 1,100 and he throws for 4,000.

[Tned]

If we have a 1,500 yard back, he won't get 4,000 yards. That's a good point Tned, but I think todays game is changing that. I think we're good if someone rushes for 1,100 and he throws for 4,000.

Yes, but in the changing game, the broncos are more likely to have a 1,100 yard back and a 950 yard back and rush for 2200-2500 as a team (including reverses, QB runs, etc.) and lead the league in rushing (with Vick out of the league).

If the Broncos are able to get back to being the 'best' RB rushing team in the league, then I don't see 4,000 yards to often. If the Broncos become a middle of the pack rushing team, then Cutler certainly has the skills (and hopefully the receivers) to throw for 4,000+.

I just think as long as Shanahan is coach, the running game will be the focus and only if the running game fails does the team pass often enough to rack up that many passing yards.

Even if we are scoring 30+ a game, Shanahan's preference will be long, time consuming scoring drives not the 45 second Indy (or St. Louis greatest show on turf) type scoring drives that tends to rack up passing yards.

[omac]

I think the overload at receiver has less to do with more targets, and more to do with injury insurance. Same with the overload at RB and OL. After all our injuries last season, Shanny might just be overstocking just in case. Brandon Marshall injuring himself recently just drove in the point. Like Gmoney posted, this draft definitely improved our depth.

[TXBRONC]

Only if the Broncos can't get back to being one of the top rushing teams in the league. Remember, Shanny in recent history has been second only to Pitt in precentage of run plays (about 50/50).

When you consider Elway only once threw for 4,000 yards, and that was before Shanny was the head coach, and that when Shanny was coach, Elway averaged around 3,600 yards (give or take, adjusted for injury shortened years). Plummer broke 4,000 one year, but the running game was so/so (the Droughns year) and the Broncos threw a lot.

I think that if the running game is going the way the Broncos want it to and the Broncos are scoring and getting out to leads, then Cutler likely doesn't throw for 4,000 yards. Instead, the Broncos jump out to early leads, and then ride the running game to the win with strategic passing to keep the opponents honest. That's what Shanahan has done when his offense is working well.

If on the other hand we have trouble routinely running the ball or getting out to leads and our consistantly playing catchup, then I think he has a chance to pass for 4,000, whether this year or in the future.

So, I don't think that it is so much whether Cutler can, but whether the Broncos are consistantly in the lead or trailing in games that will determine it.


In the four years that John and Shanahan were together we put the ball up 500 plus times 3 out of the 4 years. In '98 when TD rushed for 2000 yard we missed the 500 hundred mark by only 9 attempts. The way it looks if Jay gets around 500 attempts he could very easily throw for 4000 or more yards.

[Npba900]

It seems like we're loading up on options for Jay to throw to. It looks like we're a passing team now (or at least like maybe we should become a passing team now). Consider that we drafted Royal and Hillis and signed Alridge along with signing 3 WRs this past offseason.

All those new WR's will need to get on the same page with Cutler and the O line needs to gel and the LT will need to protect Cutler. The running game will need to convert 3rd downs. Many factors will need to come into play.

I just want to see Jay make the progression read to get Rid of the Dam Ball and not hold the ball for too long and find the safety valve receiver. Once Jay learns how to do that, the 4K seasons are in his future. I don't realistically see a 4K passing season this year, but by the 2009 season its a very good possibility.

I think our expectation of Cutler this season maybe over exaggerated. Jay in my opinion is still 2 years away from putting up Manning type numbers consistently and becoming a top 5 rated QB. Last year was his 1st full year as a starter. 2008 will be Jay's 2nd full year as a starter. He's coming along at the right pace however. Jay will still try and force throws this year b/c he has cannon, and that will get him in trouble and involve set backs with interceptions as well.

I can see Cutler achieve the following in the 2008 season: 3,500-3,888 yards passing, 20-27 TD's, and 15-21 Interceptions and a 6-10 or 9-7 record. However, by the 2009 season his 4th year in the NFL and 3rd full season as a starter Cutler will have his coming out party. The offensive players who were drafted in 2006, 2007, and 2008 will have gelled right along with Cutler by the 2009 season.

[TXBRONC]

All those new WR's will need to get on the same page with Cutler and the O line needs to gell and the LT will need to protect Cutler. The running game will need to convert 3rd downs. Many factors will need to come into play.

I just want to see Jay make the progression read to get Rid of the Dam Ball and not hold the ball for too long and find the safety valve receiver. Once Jay learns how to do that, the 4K seasons are in his future. I don't realistically see a 4K passing season this year, but by the 2009 season its a very good possibility.

I think our expectation of Cutler this season maybe over exaggerated. Jay in my opinion is still 2 years away from putting up Manning type numbers consistently and becoming a top 5 rated QB. Last year was his 1st full year as a starter. 2008 will be Jay's 2nd full year as a starter. He's coming along at the right pace however.

If Jay never throws for 4000 yards in a season I wont think any less of him. He consistanly puts up good numbers and we win games.

[Lonestar]

When Jake did the 4000+ yards and set a record it was also the ROE year where the DB's could not breathe on a Receiver, let alone touch them..

As I said in my earlier post maybe 2009 unless the running game goes belly up this year..

I do not see this team with all the new kids jell to the point we have over 6200 yards total.

[Npba900]

If Jay never throws for 4000 yards in a season I wont think any less of him. He consistanly puts up good numbers and we win games.

Oh don't worry once the offence gets the necessary pieces, timing, and experience at key positions, there will be several 4K plus seasons from Cutler! At least 5 to 8, 4,000 seasons at least the infrastructure and talent is there.

[TXBRONC]

Oh don't worry once the offence gets the necessary pieces, timing, and experience at key positions, there will be several 4K plus seasons from Cutler! At least 5 to 8, 4,000 seasons at least the infrastructure and talent is there.


That would be great, but only time will tell.

[Tned]

In the four years that John and Shanahan we put the ball up 500 plus times 3 out of the 4 years. In '98 when TD rushed for 2000 yard we missed the 500 hundred mark by only 9 attempts. The way it looks if Jay gets around 500 attempts he could very easily throw for 4000 or more yards.

That's a good point, TX. Considering that the completion percentages league wide have gone up 7%+ from Elways time to now, without a corresponding drop in YPC, you might very well be right.

I put up some numbers a few months ago putting Jay's numbers in perspective that were showing the unprecedented QB numbers from average QBs, compared to what HOF QB's like Aikmen, Young, Marino and Elway did. So, based on the much higher completion percentages and same or higher YPC, you might be right about the 4,000 even with a successful running game.

[Nature Boy]

I'd rather see Henry and his back ups run for more than 2500 yards on the ground. If Cutler throws for 4000+ yards, then something is wrong with that offense.

[lex]

All those new WR's will need to get on the same page with Cutler and the O line needs to gel and the LT will need to protect Cutler. The running game will need to convert 3rd downs. Many factors will need to come into play.

I just want to see Jay make the progression read to get Rid of the Dam Ball and not hold the ball for too long and find the safety valve receiver. Once Jay learns how to do that, the 4K seasons are in his future. I don't realistically see a 4K passing season this year, but by the 2009 season its a very good possibility.

I think our expectation of Cutler this season maybe over exaggerated. Jay in my opinion is still 2 years away from putting up Manning type numbers consistently and becoming a top 5 rated QB. Last year was his 1st full year as a starter. 2008 will be Jay's 2nd full year as a starter. He's coming along at the right pace however. Jay will still try and force throws this year b/c he has cannon, and that will get him in trouble and involve set backs with interceptions as well.

I can see Cutler achieve the following in the 2008 season: 3,500-3,888 yards passing, 20-27 TD's, and 15-21 Interceptions and a 6-10 or 9-7 record. However, by the 2009 season his 4th year in the NFL and 3rd full season as a starter Cutler will have his coming out party. The offensive players who were drafted in 2006, 2007, and 2008 will have gelled right along with Cutler by the 2009 season.

What are my expectations of Cutler this season?

[DenBronx]

whether we rush or pass to get the yardage i dont care as long as points are being scored, especially in the redzone.

but yeah, i think its possible for cutler to get 4000 yards. our offense at least seems to have a nice ballance of talent in the passing and rushing attack.

[dogfish]

Do you think Jay will have 4,000 yards passing? What about 4,500?


honestly, i kinda hope not. . . IMO, the most likely scenario for that to happen is denver playing from behind for significant stretches. . .

[slim]

No. How can he throw for 4,000 when Torain is racking up 1,500?

[D1g1tal j1m]

It is certainly attainable for Cutler but his receivers will have to stay healthy all year and most importantly, make plays after the catch. We have the WR that can get serious YAC but they have to jell and stay on the field.

[Lonestar]

It is certainly attainable for Cutler but his receivers will have to stay healthy all year and most importantly, make plays after the catch. We have the WR that can get serious YAC but they have to jell and stay on the field.

which receivers are gonna get 900 yards or more this year..

IF Marshall comes back to last years level say 1300, that means two or more others have to come up with the other 2700.


Not likely folks..

[Watchthemiddle]

No. How can he throw for 4,000 when Torain is racking up 1,500?

You have a point there.

Everyone wants this O to evolve around the QB....

But in reality, this QB is not ready for that to happen therefore it must STILL revolve around the running game..
.

,Same as it has for the pat ,6,7,8,9 years...

:coffee:

[Nature Boy]

It's gonna be Travis Henry or bust, again. Let's hope he stays healthy.

[dogfish]

You have a point there.

Everyone wants this O to evolve around the QB....

But in reality, this QB is not ready for that to happen therefore it must STILL revolve around the running game..
.

,Same as it has for the pat ,6,7,8,9 years...

:coffee:



this was a run first offense when we had arguably the best quarterback to ever wear pads, but this has slid more and more towards a passing league since the emphasis on the fivce yard chuck rule. . . personally, i'm still a tremendous fan of the running game, though. . .

[Watchthemiddle]

this was a run first offense when we had arguably the best quarterback to ever wear pads, but this has slid more and more towards a passing league since the emphasis on the fivce yard chuck rule. . . personally, i'm still a tremendous fan of the running game, though. . .

Sooooooo...just because the "league" has gone to a pass first philosophy, doesn't mean we have to change.

That said, i am not saying that I dislike the passing game, but so many around here want to hang their hat on Cutler.....

In my eyes, Cutler is only as good as our running game.

Bring in all the all world WR's as we want, but it won't matter.

And for that matter, a QB in the NFL is only as good as his RB.

Anyone who wants to argue that, come talk to me about the Broncos trips to the Super Bowl in 86.87.89......

Then talk to me about their Super Bowl trips in 97. and 98.

World of difference.

[broncohead]

Sooooooo...just because the "league" has gone to a pass first philosophy, doesn't mean we have to change.

That said, i am not saying that I dislike the passing game, but so many around here want to hang their hat on Cutler.....

In my eyes, Cutler is only as good as our running game.

Bring in all the all world WR's as we want, but it won't matter.

And for that matter, a QB in the NFL is only as good as his RB.

Anyone who wants to argue that, come talk to me about the Broncos trips to the Super Bowl in 86.87.89......

Then talk to me about their Super Bowl trips in 97. and 98

World of difference.

So your saying that if we had Maroney or Addai we would have a good chance at going to the super bowl? I dont think that assesment is right. Take away Brady or Manning from their teams then they aren't super bowl contenders. I agree that we need a strong running game to take some of the pressure off of Cutler. I hope that someday the team can lean on Cutler instead of our running game.

[xzn]

What we need on offense can be summed up in TWO WORDS: bal-ance.

[WARHORSE]

4000? Yeah, he can do it.

Will he?

I think alot depends on the games we play, and the teams we play against. If we do what we should, dictate the games, then we should be a balanced attack. The best offenses are multidimensional, keeping opposing defenses of balance, causing them to guess. I have always wondered, as well, why we do not run the hurry up offense in all kinds of different situations, adding to our flexibility.

If Cutler makes more calls at the LOS, he will undoubtedly do more this year.

[Watchthemiddle]

4000? Yeah, he can do it.

Will he?

I think alot depends on the games we play, and the teams we play against. If we do what we should, dictate the games, then we should be a balanced attack. The best offenses are multidimensional, keeping opposing defenses of balance, causing them to guess. I have always wondered, as well, why we do not run the hurry up offense in all kinds of different situations, adding to our flexibility.

If Cutler makes more calls at the LOS, he will undoubtedly do more this year.

The reason we don't do more hurry up is because of Cutler....no knock on him, but he has only played about 20 games or so as a starting QB in the NFL.

All I heard about before Cutler became QB was how once he took over, the offense would show this whole new demension......because he is soooo smart and has such a great arm...

Well....the only thing I have seen is his arm...not so much the brains.

[Retired_Member_001]

It ALL depends on the offensive line. If the offensive line gels quickly, Clady and Harris turn out to be good players and if at least either Nalen or Hamilton can be healthy for next season (which unfortunately seems unlikely) then it's more than possible. It all depends on that offensive line. It also depends on Marshall being healthy and moan free.

Cutler has the ability, the question is whether his will step up or not.

[sneakers]

maybe in the Arena League, or if we are down 21-0 after the 1st quarter of every game this year.

[Npba900]

Having a QB throw for over 4,000 yards in a season is exciting for the fans, however, those stats are not the true measurement for getting to and winning the SB.

The balanced teams are the ones who are playing in the playoffs and contending for the SB.

I'd much rather see Cutler avg. 3,700-3,800 yards for the next 14 years, with a running game avg. 1,800-2,100 yards a season, and having 7 Super Bowl appearances within that 14 year span b/c of balance.

Throw in avg. 11 - 14 wins seasons with that 14 year span now you have consistency. With balance, this increases your chances of at least winning one playoff game or more for the next 14 years.

You draft and build a Defense that is rated in top 12 or better 14 consecutive season in passing and running once again you have consistency.

Sometimes teams and fans can over emphasize big STAT numbers.....its good for entertainment but rarely ends with winning championships.

Case in point, Brady last year threw for over 4,000 yards and 50 plus TD's, GREAT ENTERTAINMENT VALUE and HYPE and the ratings go thru the roof, but the team that had the least amount of stats and records set team wise and individually WON THE SUPER BOWL.

Also, speaking of passing, in the SB, it appeared to me that the NYG game planed to stop NE passing attack! and the Patriots fell into the Giants trap, b/c Brady was determined to beat NY thru the air.....you know for the ratings!!! The Giants did not have to worry about NE's running attack. The Giants also beat the Patriots b/c NE abandoned their running game, so the Giants only had to focus stopping NE's passing attack......no small feat, but never the less, the Giants beat the Patriots by stopping Brady and containing the NE wide receivers.

Lastly, when Denver beat GB in the SB, Elway did not light the stat sheet with over 300 plus yards passing, Denver beat the Packers with their running attack. The following year, ATL had to choose which area of the BALANCED Bronco offense to take away from Denver, and coach REEVES chose to take away the running game, and Denver and Elway responded by beating ATL thru the air! Balance were the keys to both of Denver's 2 consecutive Super Bowl victories.

I just want to see Cutler play and perform with balance and consistency if I had my choice......not with huge stats, b/c in the long run, huge stats are unsustainable in winning championships.....Huge stats are GREAT FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND RATING HOWEVER!!!

[TXBRONC]

That's a good point, TX. Considering that the completion percentages league wide have gone up 7%+ from Elways time to now, without a corresponding drop in YPC, you might very well be right.

I put up some numbers a few months ago putting Jay's numbers in perspective that were showing the unprecedented QB numbers from average QBs, compared to what HOF QB's like Aikmen, Young, Marino and Elway did. So, based on the much higher completion percentages and same or higher YPC, you might be right about the 4,000 even with a successful running game.


Yeah all I'm trying to say it looks like it takes around 500 attempt, but also means he would have to have completion perentage of 60% or better.

And I said earlier him reaching 4000 yards passing isn't important compared to winning games and keeping his interceptions totals down. There is nothing embarrassing about throwing for 3500-3800 yards, tossing 20 plus tds, and having int count around 12 to more than about 15.

[Scarface]

I hope he doesn't have to. If he does its probably because the running game is struggling. Like X said, we need balance.

[Tned]

Yeah all I'm trying to say it looks like it takes around 500 attempt, but also means he would have to have completion perentage of 60% or better.

And I said earlier him reaching 4000 yards passing isn't important compared to winning games and keeping his interceptions totals down. There is nothing embarrassing about throwing for 3500-3800 yards, tossing 20 plus tds, and having int count around 12 to more than about 15.

Here is a post I did last November, showing that we are in a "Juiced Ball" era when it comes to QB stats.

So, if the Broncos do throw it roughly 500 times, along with the much higher completion percentage that QBs are getting now vs. 10-15 years ago, 4,000 is probably very possible.

As I show below, not only was the completion percentage ACROSS the board way higher than we were used to from HOF QBs, but the YPC were also higher. Combine 60%+ completion and 7.7+ YPA (yards per attempt, not completion) and it starts to add up fast. Lets say 500 attempts and 7.7 YPA and you are bumping up against 4,000.



Ok, now the comment.

As I have said before, I don't think you can compare Elway and Cutler easily, because even with all the injuries this year, Cutler has more talent around him than Elway.

However, there is another thing to consider. Can anyone remember a more dominant time for QBs in the NFL?

Through 12 week, there are 24, yes 24, out of the 30 QBs with completion percentages OVER 60%. Of those, 22 of them have at least 1100 yards passing, so that number isn't padded by a bunch of backup QBs that through a couple passes. That is from the list of qualified (14 passes per game average).

There are two more that are over 59%, and only Alex Smith is below 56%.

Contrast that with Hall of Famer Troy Aikmen, who was under 60% 6 of his 12 seasons. Only twice was he over 65%, but this season we have 13 QBs at 64.9% or higher.

How about Marino? Only 5 times in his 17 seasons was Marino over 60%, and never cracked 65% (64.1% and 64.2% were his two highest seasons). So, based purely on judging 'current' stats against those from another era, Joe Kitna, Garcia, Garrrard, Pennington, Breese, etc. are all 'greater' starters or have 'beat' a QB like Dan Marino or Troy Aikmen.

The inflated QB stats don't stop with completion percentage. There are 10 QBs averaging over 250 yards a game (4000 yards over 16 games). Only 8, yes 8, of Marino's 17 years did he average over 250 yards a game. The NFL all time leader in passing yards averaged over 250 yards a game less than half of his seasons, yet this year we have 10 QBs averaging over 250 yards a game.

Another interesting stat. There are 12 QB's averaging over 7.5 yards per attempt. Again, comparing that to the 'great' Marino, only 6, yes 6, of his 17 years did he average over 7.5 yards per attempt. Only twice did he have a YPA over 7.6, but this year we have 7 QBs that are at 7.7 or higher, including some dominant names like: Garrard, Kitna and Schaub, with Cutler, Anderson and Garcia at 7.6, which equals Marino's best in all but two of his seasons, and is better than Marino did in 13 of his 17 seasons.

Conclusion? You cannot compare QB stats from a rookie season 24 years ago, to today. For whatever reason, we are experiencing a 'juiced ball' type era, when it comes to QB stats. It doesn't end with completion percentage, YPA and yards per game, there are 11 QBs with passer ratings over 90. A slew of QBs with TD:INT ratings approaching or way over 2:1. It goes on and on.

QBs like Garcia, Kitna, Schaub, and many others (not to mention the Palmer's, Brady's, Manning's and Romo's) are having years that approach the greatest years of our greatest Hall of Fame QBs.

So, while I am a huge Cutler fan, and think he will likely be one of the 'great' ones in time, comparisons like the Cutler to Elway stat comparisons can be very deceptive, because QB stats are inflated like no other time in NFL history.

[Nomad]

It ALL depends on the offensive line. If the offensive line gels quickly, Clady and Harris turn out to be good players and if at least either Nalen or Hamilton can be healthy for next season (which unfortunately seems unlikely) then it's more than possible. It all depends on that offensive line. It also depends on Marshall being healthy and moan free.

Cutler has the ability, the question is whether his will step up or not.

It would have to be a perfect recipe for Jay to get 4000+ yds, but it can be done. First, he'll need the protection (oline and the backfield picking up the blitzes), then a solid run game to keep defenses guessing and the ball moving for positive yards, receivers who can run their routes and catch the ball, and lastly ST the return guy and blockers need to give Jay and co. great field position through the year. Can it be done, I guess we'll find out. But I expect Jay to have a great year.

[lex]

Having a QB throw for over 4,000 yards in a season is exciting for the fans, however, those stats are not the true measurement for getting to and winning the SB.

The balanced teams are the ones who are playing in the playoffs and contending for the SB.

I'd much rather see Cutler avg. 3,700-3,800 yards for the next 14 years, with a running game avg. 1,800-2,100 yards a season, and having 7 Super Bowl appearances within that 14 year span b/c of balance.

Throw in avg. 11 - 14 wins seasons with that 14 year span now you have consistency. With balance, this increases your chances of at least winning one playoff game or more for the next 14 years.

You draft and build a Defense that is rated in top 12 or better 14 consecutive season in passing and running once again you have consistency.

Sometimes teams and fans can over emphasize big STAT numbers.....its good for entertainment but rarely ends with winning championships.

Case in point, Brady last year threw for over 4,000 yards and 50 plus TD's, GREAT ENTERTAINMENT VALUE and HYPE and the ratings go thru the roof, but the team that had the least amount of stats and records set team wise and individually WON THE SUPER BOWL.

Also, speaking of passing, in the SB, it appeared to me that the NYG game planed to stop NE passing attack! and the Patriots fell into the Giants trap, b/c Brady was determined to beat NY thru the air.....you know for the ratings!!! The Giants did not have to worry about NE's running attack. The Giants also beat the Patriots b/c NE abandoned their running game, so the Giants only had to focus stopping NE's passing attack......no small feat, but never the less, the Giants beat the Patriots by stopping Brady and containing the NE wide receivers.

Lastly, when Denver beat GB in the SB, Elway did not light the stat sheet with over 300 plus yards passing, Denver beat the Packers with their running attack. The following year, ATL had to choose which area of the BALANCED Bronco offense to take away from Denver, and coach REEVES chose to take away the running game, and Denver and Elway responded by beating ATL thru the air! Balance were the keys to both of Denver's 2 consecutive Super Bowl victories.

I just want to see Cutler play and perform with balance and consistency if I had my choice......not with huge stats, b/c in the long run, huge stats are unsustainable in winning championships.....Huge stats are GREAT FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND RATING HOWEVER!!!

Terrell Davis still had over 100 yards...its not like they really stopped anything but its true we won that game more by passing than running.

BTW, this is why over the whole season I expected NEs lack of a running game to bite it in the butt. This is why I never regarded last years NE team on the same level of our 98 team.

[claymore]

If plummer can do Jay can do it.

[BeefStew25]

We need ball controlled 8 minutes drives. Like what Garrard dod to us last year. Keep the defense rested.

So, we need a running game.

[lex]

We need ball controlled 8 minutes drives. Like what Garrard dod to us last year. Keep the defense rested.

So, we need a running game.

Lets keep this on the actual thread topic which is the passing game.

[claymore]

Lets keep this on the actual thread topic which is the passing game.
I like pancakes with maple syrup. :salute:

[BeefStew25]

Lets keep this on the actual thread topic which is the passing game.

Nice try.

If we are going to be successful, then, no, Jay won't and can't have 4,000 passing yards.

Reason? Our defense will be in the field too much if w score quickly.

[Ziggy]

Sooooooo...just because the "league" has gone to a pass first philosophy, doesn't mean we have to change.

That said, i am not saying that I dislike the passing game, but so many around here want to hang their hat on Cutler.....

In my eyes, Cutler is only as good as our running game.

Bring in all the all world WR's as we want, but it won't matter.

And for that matter, a QB in the NFL is only as good as his RB.

Anyone who wants to argue that, come talk to me about the Broncos trips to the Super Bowl in 86.87.89......

Then talk to me about their Super Bowl trips in 97. and 98.World of difference.


I'd be more than happy to. Put Terell Davis with Elway and the Broncos offensive lines in the 86,87, and 89 Super Bowls and they still lose. Elway spent most of those Super Bowls running for his life and looking up from the flat of his back. He had no protection, and the RB's had no holes to run through. Not to mention the fact that those defenses were overmatched and outcoached. Denver lost those Super Bowls on the line of scrimmage, not behind it.

When are people going to realize just how great our offensive line was in the 97 and 98 Super Bowls? The RB makes the QB? Give me a break. If that was true, every QB in Detroit would have been a hall of famer while Barry Sanders played, and every QB in Chicago would have been a hall of famer while Walter Payton played.

[lex]

Nice try.

If we are going to be successful, then, no, Jay won't and can't have 4,000 passing yards.

Reason? Our defense will be in the field too much if w score quickly.

Isnt scoring too quickly kind of a nice problem to have considering its not exactly as if we have been scoring a lot of TDs? After last season, are we really in a position to be picky on how we score? And when you look at the offseason emphasis, it seems like we might be more of a passing team now.

If we can score a lot and score early, regardless of how, it at the very least allows our defense to focus more on the pass and be more aggressive.

So anyway, its possible the powers that be fell we may have a better chance scoring through the air, so with that premise in mind, lets get back to the thread topic. Nice try though.

[BeefStew25]

Isnt scoring too quickly kind of a nice problem to have considering its not exactly as if we have been scoring a lot of TDs? After last season, are we really in a position to be picky on how we score? And when you look at the offseason emphasis, it seems like we might be more of a passing team now.

If we can score a lot and score early, regardless of how, it at the very least allows our defense to focus more on the pass and be more aggressive.

Once we get inside the red zone, you can throw all you want. But with an untested defense, I don't want to get in a shootout with anyone. Keep them fresh for the end.

[Skinny]

Marshall completely healthy would help. Scheffler getting a 1,000 yards i think can be the clincher. He did'nt have a catch till game 5 last year and finished the season right at about 600 yards so that's not a long shot IMO.

4,500 yards ... Jay and a few others would have to play out of this world.

[BeefStew25]

So anyway, its possible the powers that be fell we may have a better chance scoring through the air, so with that premise in mind, lets get back to the thread topic. Nice try though.

Cut it out, Lex. I told you why Cutty won't throw for 4k yards. I am absolutely on topic. Take the immaturity somewhere else.

[lex]

Once we get inside the red zone, you can throw all you want. But with an untested defense, I don't want to get in a shootout with anyone. Keep them fresh for the end.

Did our offensive line suddenly go from small to big? If not, passing might be the more viable option in the red zone. Like I said, TDs instead of FGs helps the defense as well.

[BeefStew25]

Did our offensive line suddenly go from small to big? If not, passing might be the more viable option in the red zone. Like I said, TDs instead of FGs helps the defense as well.

Good point. Our zone blocking scheme has been an absolute failure the last 10 years.

[lex]

Cut it out, Lex. I told you why Cutty won't throw for 4k yards. I am absolutely on topic. Take the immaturity somewhere else.

Thats rich.

[lex]

Good point. Our zone blocking scheme has been an absolute failure the last 10 years.

Its not a good point...just stating the obvious. You probably just chose to ignore this in your attempt to derail the thread.

[Rex]

I think Ryan Torain might have 2000 yds rushing.

[BeefStew25]

Its not a good point...just stating the obvious. You probably just chose to ignore this in your attempt to derail the thread.

I didn't.

My point is this. If Cutty does pass for 4,000 yards, is that really a good thing?

[BeefStew25]

I think Ryan Torain might have 2000 yds rushing.

He is made for our system.

Now, CSWIL, to keep this on topic, how many of the 4,000 yards will Cutty throw to Torain?

[tubby]

Oh man. This coffee is making me have to take a weinerdog. :cry:

4000 yards? No.

[MOtorboat]

Its not a good point...just stating the obvious. You probably just chose to ignore this in your attempt to derail the thread.

It's not derailing the thread. It's pointing out that if Jay throws for 4,000 yards, the defense is on the field longer, because we'll be scoring quicker, and we run into the problem the Chiefs had under Al Saunders.

The Broncos have always molded their team for a bruising, run-oriented offense and a quick defense intent on bending, but not quite breaking, and turnovers. The problem recently in that is that we haven't been strong up the middle.

In this scenario, which is common for the Broncos, then Jay throws for 3,000, Torrain/Henry run for 2,000 and we're 13-3.

It is not in any way de-railing the thread.

[Rex]

He is made for our system.

Now, CSWIL, to keep this on topic, how many of the 4,000 yards will Cutty throw to Torain?

I dont know. But simply having him as a running threat will open up the passing game.

[lex]

I didn't.

My point is this. If Cutty does pass for 4,000 yards, is that really a good thing?

That question has already been answered. Why are you asking this again.

[BeefStew25]

That question has already been answered. Why are you asking this again.

Ok, no, Jay won't have 4000 yards, and no, he won't have 4500 yards.

There. Close the thread. Tia.

[lex]

It's not derailing the thread. It's pointing out that if Jay throws for 4,000 yards, the defense is on the field longer, because we'll be scoring quicker, and we run into the problem the Chiefs had under Al Saunders.

The Broncos have always molded their team for a bruising, run-oriented offense and a quick defense intent on bending, but not quite breaking, and turnovers. The problem recently in that is that we haven't been strong up the middle.

In this scenario, which is common for the Broncos, then Jay throws for 3,000, Torrain/Henry run for 2,000 and we're 13-3.

It is not in any way de-railing the thread.

The distinction would be that we no longer have Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis. On the other hand we do have Jay Cutler as opposed to Brian Griese or Jake Plummer. There kind of inlies the impetus for such a question.

[Lonestar]

ok let look at it logicaly

in 2004 when jake threw for 4089 yards..

Here is the break down on recievers..


Player Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 1st YAC Trgt
Smith 79 1144 14.5 85 7 52 419 136
Lelie 54 1084 20.1 58 7 40 198 101
Putz 36 572 15.9 39 2 27 262 54
Watts 31 385 12.4 28 1 19 137 53
Droug 15 32 241 7.5 23 2 14 246 44
Carswe22 198 9.0 20 1 10 96 36
KJ 9 126 14.0 31 2 5 97 13

2007 when JAy threw for 3759

Player REC YDS AVG LG TD 1ST YAC TRGT
Marshal102 1325 13.0 68 7 70 505 170
Stokley 40 635 15.9 58 5 34 127 71
Scheffle 49 549 11.2 41 5 29 164 65
Walker, 26 287 11.0 24 0 10 109 50
Graham 24 246 10.3 28 2 12 106 33
Young, 35 231 6.6 24 0 11 267 43
Martinez 14 175 12.5 23 0 9 46 24
Hall, And 2 69 34.5 65 0 1 74 2
Henry, Tr 7 65 9.3 21 0 2 68 14
Mustard 5 62 12.4 15 0 4 13 7
Sapp, Ce 14 51 3.6 16 1 3 44 20
Jackson, 3 34 11.3 24 1 2 8 4
Clark, Bri 4 23 5.8 7 0 0 11 5
Bell, Mike 1 7 7.0 7


We do not have a smith ashley and a Watts on this team. who accounted for 2613 yards themselves. Our big two in 2007 was Stokely and Marshall accounting for 1960 coming up short 653 yards..

PUTZ-carswell and Scheffler-graham cancel each other out.

Unless Jay develops a working relationship FAST with one of the other WR's I do not see it having toe basically come up with an additional 650 yards between the #1 and 2 WR and and additional 250 they were short to start with I do not see it..

This is also assuming that Marshall will get the 1300 he had last year.. He has become a very large target of DC this past off season.. I suspect he will draw a lot more attention this next year.. and while he is a talented guy there were only 6 guys in the NFL that had 1300 yards last year.. four those players were on primarily passing teams..

Even IF the OLINE lights it up and is on track day one of the regular season. We all know with at least 2 NEW players on it, maybe as many as 3 new players in different positions, that is unlikely IMO.

With only two real returning WRs from last year the likely hood of Jay being on the same page, for that matter the new WRs even figuring out the playbook much before the bye week maybe even the 10-12 game of the year.. Again I do not see it..

Folks be realistic 4000 is going to be a stretch for this team as mikey likes to run about 50% of the time. 4500 means our running game is non existent..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I think it's quite evident that Denver loading up on receivers and options around Cutler show that the team is confident with him throwing the ball. Yes, Mike will always try to establish the run but I think Jay Cutler has the ability to put up 4,000 yards.

Brandon Marshall, Darrell Jackson, Keary Colbert, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Sammie Parker, Tony Scheffler, Daniel Graham and our running backs sound a lot better than Brandon Marshall, an injured Brandon Stokley and Javon Walker from last year.

If Cutler would have had two healthy receivers all season long, I think we'd of seen a lot better things happen. Hopefully with the addition of the aforementioned through FA and Eddie Royal in the draft, Jay will have the necessary weapons to succeed.

I'm pretty confident that with another year under Jay's belt -- and more weapons in the mix that he'll be able to throw for 4,000 yards. That's only 30 more yards a game. Had he had some reliable options down the stretch last year -- I think that'd of been a real possibility.

So put it this way. Do you think Jay can average 30 more yards a game this year, or at least come up with a few big games to off-set an average? I sure do. Jay throwing for a lot of yards is a good thing. Bringing up the defensive part of the ball is completely irrelevant, for reasons I don't even want to get into because it'd take forever to debate.

Denver has a better stable of receivers (on paper) than they did last year and younger players with more experience. Brandon Marshall is the real wild card in all of this. If he's healthy, I think that's another big year lock and a sure fire 1,300+ yards. I don't think it's going to be hard for Jay with guys like Jackson, Stokley, Royal, Scheffler and Graham (backs as well) to get the rest to 4,000. Not at all. I think it's a very realistic possibility.