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Retired_Member_001
04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
Going deep

The Broncos have taken 19 wide receivers in the draft during Mike Shanahan's tenure, the most of any other position.

Year Rd. Overall Player School

2008 2 42 Eddie Royal Virginia Tech

2006 4a 119 Brandon Marshall Central Florida

2006 4c 130 Domenik Hixon Akron

2004 2b 54 Darius Watts Marshall

2004 6a 171 Triandos Luke Alabama

2003 5b 158 Adrian Madise Texas Christian

2002 1 19 Ashley Lelie Hawaii

2002 5 144 Herb Haygood Michigan State

2001 6 190 Kevin Kasper Iowa

2000 3 70 Chris Cole Texas A&M

2000 5 154 Muneer Moore Richmond

2000 7b 246 Leroy Fields Jackson State

1999 3b 93 Travis McGriff Florida

1999 6a 179 Desmond Clark Wake Forest

1999 6b 204 Chad Plummer Cincinnati

1999 7a 218 Billy Miller Southern Cal

1998 1 30 Marcus Nash Tennessee

1996 5 149 Patrick Jeffers Virginia

1995 7b 222 Byron Chamberlain Wayne State

Bottom of the article:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/apr/28/surgery-puts-broncos-pick-torain-back-in-running/

That's a lot of receivers.

How do you feel about this?

Requiem / The Dagda
04-30-2008, 11:59 AM
Doesn't bother me, several of those people played TE and did well for us.

G_Money
04-30-2008, 01:36 PM
The only ones that hurt are the 1st and 2nd rounders. 6th round WRs are a crapshoot - no sense worrying when they don't work out.

Watts, Lelie and Nash hurt, because those are the 3 guys he drafted with an eye towards a #1 or a #2 receiver, and whiffed on all of em.

Much as Royal will hurt if he doesn't work out.

I already feel better about Royal than I did about Watts and Nash, so hopefully he can give us a far better return on investment than those clowns.

~G

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 01:44 PM
How do you feel about this?

I think it speaks for itself.

We need a real GM.

BroncoJoe
04-30-2008, 01:44 PM
The only ones that hurt are the 1st and 2nd rounders. 6th round WRs are a crapshoot - no sense worrying when they don't work out.

Watts, Lelie and Nash hurt, because those are the 3 guys he drafted with an eye towards a #1 or a #2 receiver, and whiffed on all of em.

Much as Royal will hurt if he doesn't work out.

I already feel better about Royal than I did about Watts and Nash, so hopefully he can give us a far better return on investment than those clowns.

~G

Pun intended?

broncohead
04-30-2008, 06:37 PM
With all those recievers, its hard to think that we didn't hit on more than one. Marshall will be a beast if he heals corectally and grows up a little. Even if Royal is only a #3 reciever for his career I think his value will be at kick/punt returner.

TXBRONC
04-30-2008, 06:47 PM
With all those receivers, its hard to think that we didn't hit on more than one. Marshall will be a beast if he heals correctally and grows up a little. Even if Royal is only a #3 reciever for his career I think his value will be at kick/punt returner.

I think we've hit more than just Marshall. Obviously its not nearly as big Marshall but had some that have been productive.

Several in fact were converted TE. Billy Miller, Byron Chamberlain, Jeb Putzier, and Desmond Clark all were converted to TE. I also don't think Lelie wasn't bust, he was good number 2 and in my opinion he would have been better if he had had a better quarterback throwing to him.

TXBRONC
04-30-2008, 06:49 PM
Wookiee I'm bothered by it because it's hard to find good receivers.

Requiem / The Dagda
04-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Which is why you gotta try twice as hard to find them, so draft more!

broncohead
04-30-2008, 06:56 PM
I think we've hit more than just Marshall. Obviously its not nearly as big Marshall but had some that have been productive.

Several in fact were converted TE. Billy Miller, Byron Chamberlain, Jeb Putzier, and Desmond Clark all were converted to TE. I also don't think Lelie was bust, he was good number 2 and in my opinion he would have been better if he had had a better quarterback throwing to him.

IMO a later round player isn't a bust. They have potential but they aren't a 1st round talent type of player. Lelie wasn't necisarely a bust but he was a pre-madonna WR. He was more of a disapointment.

TXBRONC
04-30-2008, 08:21 PM
IMO a later round player isn't a bust. They have potential but they aren't a 1st round talent type of player. Lelie wasn't necisarely a bust but he was a pre-madonna WR. He was more of a disapointment.

I don't think Lelie was primadonna-madonna he made horrible mistake by pushing for a trade because all that has done is kill his career. He knew that bringing in Walker would mean that he would be demoted to the 3rd receiver.

broncohead
04-30-2008, 08:27 PM
I don't think Lelie was primadonna-madonna he made horrible mistake by pushing for a trade because all that has done is kill his career. He knew that bringing in Walker would mean that he would be demoted to the 3rd receiver.

Ya but it's not like he even tried. He gave up when it got challenging. Lelie was a great deep threat (something we need now) but he wasn't up to the challenge.

Simple Jaded
04-30-2008, 08:32 PM
Personally, I think it has a lot to do with the WR position coaches Denver has had.

The best WR's in Shanahan's era has been Smith, McCaffrey and Marshall, all were developed while Heimerdinger was with the team (Green Bay developed Walker), and unless I'm forgetting someone, the best WR in between his two tours with the team was Lelie.

The Broncos haven't had any luck with WR's while H-dinger is not around and I wonder how would some of these busts have faired if he had been around.

Take Marcus Nash for instance, Heimerdinger left for Tennessee about the time Nash was supposed to be developing, Nash was drafted in 98, H-dinger left in 99. Nash was a bust, obviously, and I can't even remember who his position coach was after Heimerdinger (Not that it matters, but Dorrell came in 2000).

This is not a coincidence, imo......

BANJOPICKER1
04-30-2008, 08:33 PM
I don't think Lelie was primadonna-madonna he made horrible mistake by pushing for a trade because all that has done is kill his career. He knew that bringing in Walker would mean that he would be demoted to the 3rd receiver.
I agree on this,he was a good pick but wanted to be a child rather than a Bronco!!!

GOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!!:D

jrelway
04-30-2008, 08:51 PM
marcus nash...:tsk:

Lonestar
05-01-2008, 12:50 AM
Bottom of the article:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/apr/28/surgery-puts-broncos-pick-torain-back-in-running/

That's a lot of receivers.

How do you feel about this?

good post

and how many others that were trades or FA's?

I think the list speaks for itself ..

So far bringing in Eddie Mac IMO was the only good move that mikey has made.. Rod was already here

Not counting Marshall who just might be bust also, 1 for like maybe as many as 25 or more WRs not a good batting average..

broncohead
05-01-2008, 01:29 AM
good post

and how many others that were trades or FA's?

I think the list speaks for itself ..

So far bringing in Eddie Mac IMO was the only good move that mikey has made.. Rod was already here

Not counting Marshall who just might be bust also, 1 for like maybe as many as 25 or more WRs not a good batting average..

How can a 4th round WR that had a 1200 yard season be a bust?

Watchthemiddle
05-01-2008, 01:49 AM
The WR positinn in the draft is a crap shoot for most teams if not ALL teams in the NFL.

Look at this years draft......the first WR wasn't even taken until the 2nd round.

Its a yearly 'whim' when it comes to WR's, teams, and the draft.

I say who cares.

There are enough WR's to go around for everyone......its just a matter of getting and keeping the best ones.........ie: Chad Johnson....

:coffee:

Lonestar
05-01-2008, 03:21 AM
How can a 4th round WR that had a 1200 yard season be a bust?

If he does not produce this year for whatever reason arm, head or being triple teamed I'd rank that up as a bust..

Until he has put up more than one years worth of numbers he is not quite the long term case I want on my team..

ashley had ONE good year do you consider him a star..

Retired_Member_001
05-01-2008, 03:31 AM
If he does not produce this year for whatever reason arm, head or being triple teamed I'd rank that up as a bust..

Until he has put up more than one years worth of numbers he is not quite the long term case I want on my team..

ashley had ONE good year do you consider him a star..

I think your point is fair actually.

Marshall's attitude problems, arm injury or whatever could get in the way of his performance.

I'm not a fan of Marshall at all (love his play, hate his attitude), but we REALLY need him to be healthy this season. If he puts up another great season, we will be much better than if he does't

Lonestar
05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
I think your point is fair actually.

Marshall's attitude problems, arm injury or whatever could get in the way of his performance.

I'm not a fan of Marshall at all (love his play, hate his attitude), but we REALLY need him to be healthy this season. If he puts up another great season, we will be much better than if he does't

Thanks.

I actually think he could become a force in the NFL, If his head does not get in the way..

If the OLINE is fixed with the addition of clady and Licthensteiger and if a RB that comes out of the pack to become a studbuffalo.. the defense seems to be turning around..This team could be a force in 2009.

Simple Jaded
05-01-2008, 03:25 PM
This list doesn't include the endless line of Glenn Martinez's, Brian Clark's, Todd Devoe's, Charlie Adams', Frank Rice's and Scottie Montgomery's that have come along and pushed the more talented players out the door for reasons only Shanahan understands......

Lonestar
05-01-2008, 03:44 PM
This list doesn't include the endless line of Glenn Martinez's, Brian Clark's, Todd Devoe's, Charlie Adams', Frank Rice's and Scottie Montgomery's that have come along and pushed the more talented players out the door for reasons only Shanahan understands......

I think some of these losers were FA's there have been quite few of them also..

I can not think of one position that is so hard to fill other than CB or DT to get a quality one..

Simple Jaded
05-01-2008, 04:08 PM
I think some of these losers were FA's there have been quite few of them also..

I can not think of one position that is so hard to fill other than CB or DT to get a quality one..

Yep, they're are all FA's, and I think they should be counted along with the rest of the WR's that Denver failed to develop. I'm not talking about busts, obviously Shanahan has had a few of them, I'm talking about the sheer amount of WR's he's has gone through......

TXBRONC
05-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Yep, they're are all FA's, and I think they should be counted along with the rest of the WR's that Denver failed to develop. I'm not talking about busts, obviously Shanahan has had a few of them, I'm talking about the sheer amount of WR's he's has gone through......

The topic is about draft picks Link not free agents.

broncohead
05-01-2008, 06:59 PM
If he does not produce this year for whatever reason arm, head or being triple teamed I'd rank that up as a bust..

Until he has put up more than one years worth of numbers he is not quite the long term case I want on my team..

ashley had ONE good year do you consider him a star..

Your comparing a 1st round pick to a 4th round pick. Theres a big difference.

TXBRONC
05-01-2008, 07:03 PM
How can a 4th round WR that had a 1200 yard season be a bust?

From what I have seen it takes more than one bad year to consider a player bust. Most folks know that.

Lonestar
05-01-2008, 07:07 PM
Your comparing a 1st round pick to a 4th round pick. Theres a big difference.

yet the 4th rounder had a much better second season than the first rounder.. Many thought it was a mistake that he was drafted in the first to start out with.. We all know that was correct as we speak.. DON'T we.

nevcraw
05-01-2008, 08:12 PM
This list doesn't include the endless line of Glenn Martinez's, Brian Clark's, Todd Devoe's, Charlie Adams', Frank Rice's and Scottie Montgomery's that have come along and pushed the more talented players out the door for reasons only Shanahan understands......

Who exactly were the more talented players thay were pushed out the door? and for NFL what teams are they currently lighting up?
You can criticize Shanny plenty for not drafting good recievers for sure. But you cannot criticize him for bringing in attempted fixes, in the likes of UFA's etc. Sorry to burst people's bubble but you can't have Pro Bowlers and top round talent at every postion, some time you got dive into the barrell of Horse crap to look for a pony.

TXBRONC
05-01-2008, 08:35 PM
Who exactly were the more talented players thay were pushed out the door? and what for NFL teams are they currently lighting up?
You can criticize Shanny plenty for not drafting good recievers for sure. But you cannot criticize him for bringing in attempted fixes, in the likes of UFA's etc. Sorry to burst people's bubble but you can't have Pro Bowlers and top round talent at every postion, some time you got dive into the barrell of Horse crap to look for a pony.

Exactly you don't have to agree with the methodology but it is not like he doesn't try to correct problems.

Simple Jaded
05-01-2008, 10:20 PM
The topic is about draft picks Link not free agents.

The title reads: "Shanahan and receivers"...*shrugs*...

TXBRONC
05-01-2008, 10:27 PM
The title reads: "Shanahan and receivers"...*shrugs*...

I know, but the lead post is all about draft receivers.

broncohead
05-02-2008, 02:05 AM
From what I have seen it takes more than one bad year to consider a player bust. Most folks know that.

I also know this. Some people like to write players off before they have a chance to prove themselves and others like to say "he might be a bust." Just doens't make sense to me.

broncohead
05-02-2008, 02:11 AM
yet the 4th rounder had a much better second season than the first rounder.. Many thought it was a mistake that he was drafted in the first to start out with.. We all know that was correct as we speak.. DON'T we.

I'm not debating the Lelie subject. I'm debating on how you can say "who just might be bust also" when refering to Marshall. With the numbers he has put up so far, Marshall for now is far beyond a bust. He's begining to look like a steel.

Lonestar
05-02-2008, 02:25 AM
I'm not debating the Lelie subject. I'm debating on how you can say "who just might be bust also" when refering to Marshall. With the numbers he has put up so far, Marshall for now is far beyond a bust. He's begining to look like a steel.

Perhaps he is a steal.. But he just may be another one year wonder.. But after looking at his numbers last year it is less likely.

But I have to wonder about several items:

I wonder if taking a WR @#2 and signing all of those FA's just might have something to do with the arm issue..

WR's seem to have a head issue as a general rule about the only three I can remember being great WRs and not being head cases were Rod, Eddie and Steve.

So the odds are that he too is a flake..

Most of mikeys draft choices as well as FA signings other than LB and OLINE guys rarely made past TC #3.

I did not say he was a bust, only that the potential to be was still there..

Dean
05-02-2008, 08:04 PM
There are a lot of vaiables that go into picking a good receiver. Obviously, that is why there are so many busts at that position. However, we seem to have raised this level of futility to the level of an art form.

Take "the claw" as an example. A receiver has to without fail catch the ball. Am I the only one thinking that a person without the use of all digits in one hand might have difficulty catching the ball? :eek:

Lonestar
05-02-2008, 08:16 PM
There are a lot of variables that go into picking a good receiver. Obviously, that is why there are so many busts at that position. However, we seem to have raised this level of futility to the level of an art form.
Take "the claw" as an example. A receiver has to without fail catch the ball. Am I the only one thinking that a person without the use of all digits in one hand might have difficulty catching the ball? :eek:


This Coach is an understatement..

I will forever wonder if someone did not notice his hand while scouting him or if mikey thought he could be Helen Keller again..


What I would not give to have a BUG planted inside dove valley to get to hear the REAL scoop on this stuff.

topscribe
05-02-2008, 08:22 PM
There are a lot of vaiables that go into picking a good receiver. Obviously, that is why there are so many busts at that position. However, we seem to have raised this level of futility to the level of an art form.

Take "the claw" as an example. A receiver has to without fail catch the ball. Am I the only one thinking that a person without the use of all digits in one hand might have difficulty catching the ball? :eek:

I really feel bad for Watts as a person. He worked his butt off, trying to get where he could catch.

But, looking back, for the life of me, I cannot figure why they spent a 2nd on him. :confused:

-----

Lonestar
05-02-2008, 08:27 PM
I really feel bad for Watts as a person. He worked his butt off, trying to get where he could catch.

But, looking back, for the life of me, I cannot figure why they spent a 2nd on him. :confused:

-----

A great kid like you said and until they outed him in the newspaper he was having a really good season.. Then the Post I think it was ran a "feel good" story and bang his season was over..

Do not know if he lost confidence or it was posted on every opponents bulletin board.

Liked him al most as much as I liked Q for his tribulations..

Dean
05-02-2008, 09:08 PM
Halt. Put your hands in the air, turn, and walk away.

We must not revive the "Q wars".

topscribe
05-02-2008, 09:56 PM
Halt. Put your hands in the air, turn, and walk away.

We must not revive the "Q wars".

:lol:

-----

Lonestar
05-02-2008, 10:01 PM
Halt. Put your hands in the air, turn, and walk away.

We must not revive the "Q wars".

But they were so much fun beating up on morons that hated him JUST because he was short.. Stats do not lie..

Unfortunately he had an ACL go and was never able to fulfill his destiny..
But then again neither did tater..


Liked the modest guy. Wished their were more personalties like his.

TXBRONC
05-02-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm not debating the Lelie subject. I'm debating on how you can say "who just might be bust also" when refering to Marshall. With the numbers he has put up so far, Marshall for now is far beyond a bust. He's begining to look like a steel.

If he has two or three years were he isn't nearly as productive then it would be fair to say he's bust. However, I would rather not focus my thoughts that way, I would rather be hopeful that we've just scratched the surface to his talents.