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View Full Version : The Flavor of the Kool-Aid in Denver



HORSEPOWER 56
04-24-2010, 08:08 PM
Since the beginning of the Josh McDaniels era in Denver I've had problems with everything from his personnel decisions to the way he represents the team in public. Very few of the moves the Broncos have made since January of last year have I agreed with. Most of the other posters on this board know me as a "Negative Ned" always calling out McDaniels or Orton for whatever reason. Maybe I'm just set in my ways. Maybe I don't like change. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong. The past 48 hours have thrown everything I know and believe about my Broncos into chaos.

The past few days I got to sit back and watch a Head Coach and General Manager draft with guts, conviction, and CAJONES. I got to see them take charge of the future of my team and attempt to build it THE RIGHT WAY. They rebuilt the Offensive line. They took some risks, but drafted guys of impeccable talent, character, and leadership - guys that have the potential to be great players at the pro level.

They've set a standard for others to follow. They didn't go the route the pundits thought they should. They drafted with their heads, but they also drafted with their hearts. They didn't draft flashy players with checkered pasts and doubtful character. They got their guys. Just when I was close to losing hope in my Broncos, they hit a grand slam. I haven't been this excited about the future of my team in a long time. Even if the guys we picked up this year don't all turn out like we hope they will, for the time being, I'm filled with nothing but excitement and hope for the future.

Thanks, Josh. I really needed this. I'm back on the wagon. I really think I can now taste the flavor of the Kool-Aid in Denver and it's exactly what a guy parched for more from his football team needed.

:salute:

Italianmobstr7
04-24-2010, 08:14 PM
Very well said sir!

Tned
04-24-2010, 08:16 PM
Only time will tell if they hit a grand slam or a shallow pop up.

TimTebow15MVP
04-24-2010, 08:17 PM
Was never a doubt in my mind about josh mcdaniels putting together a "team". I saw the vision a long time ago and it started with chopping cutler from this team. The guy may make bold controversal moves that some of the fans and media dont agree with but he knows what hes doing with this team.

Whoever cant see the light is just hatin.

Shazam!
04-24-2010, 08:18 PM
He's slowly building the team the way he wants getting his guys.

Tebow's excitement alone, no matter the direction of his career with Denver is something by itself.

Glad you're on board.

BroncoBJ
04-24-2010, 08:24 PM
I've always been on board with Josh. :salute: I love how he does things his way and he has a plan for this team. It might seem a bit crazy and most people outside of Denver think hes a lunatic and even a lot of people in Denver think that :lol: But I think in a year or 2 were gonna have a real good solid team. Its not just about having 1 or 2 flashy players on offense. Since he has came here he has improved our special teams, helped improve our defense, and rebuilding the offense his way. I really think the future here looks bright and I cant wait to see all the doubters in a few years.

I cant wait :salute:

WARHORSE
04-24-2010, 08:26 PM
Well who gives a rip about those who draft according to what everyone else thinks about specific players anyway.

The draft is always a lottery pick, but at least Josh and X hold to the belief in very specific types of team 'morals'.


They believe they should cast their lots with those willing to work hard, are tough, get tougher when the the road gets rougher, are smart, and keep their noses clean.

Every team in the league builds according to their design. I just really happen to like the foundation of character, hard work, tenacity, intelligence, learning from mistakes, situational football and T.E.A.M.


And I love the conviction that if those ARENT the foundations you want to build under, youre welcome to go somewhere that makes you happy, cause we're setting our feet in S.T.O.N.E.


BRING IT ON.

Shazam!
04-24-2010, 08:33 PM
McD brought in a bonafide possible franchise QB in Tebow. No way he would become a TE or FB with what they did to get him, it was shrewd. Heart. Class. Leadership. Drive. This is what Denver desperately needed for a long, long time, and this isnt even including his tremendous athletic ability. Potential or phenom doesnt even cut it.

I LOVE HIM. I cant wait for him to play. I am excited about the future again.

This team needed change. Im behind Josh 100%.

Remember this- NE, Indy, Pitt and SD has had tremendous success in the AFC for 5 and 10 year stretches and it all comes to an end eventually. It is time for other teams to come back up.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-24-2010, 08:46 PM
McD brought in a bonafide possible franchise QB in Tebow. No way he would become a TE or FB with what they did to get him, it was shrewd. Heart. Class. Leadership. Drive. This is what Denver desperately needed for a long, long time, and this isnt even including his tremendous athletic ability. Potential or phenom doesnt even cut it.

I LOVE HIM. I cant wait for him to play. I am excited about the future again.

This team needed change. Im behind Josh 100%.

Remember this- NE, Indy, Pitt and SD has had tremendous success in the AFC for 5 and 10 year stretches and it all comes to an end eventually. It is time for other teams to come back up.

Brother, it took straight up BALLS OF STEEL to trade back into the 1st round, look all the media "expert" douchebags in the face, give them the finger, and say, "Hmm, I think I'll draft the greatest Damned College Ball-Player to ever lace them up if you please and I don't give a Rats Ass what you think about it or where he is on your board!"

That's pure P.I.M.P. right there.

silkamilkamonico
04-24-2010, 08:54 PM
I think I'm probably standing on an island, considering I've tried to stand pat and support McDraftFail through all the changes he made, and in a matter of one pick (not trade), he completely changed my view of everything I thought I knew about him.

DenBronx
04-24-2010, 08:59 PM
Brother, it took straight up BALLS OF STEEL to trade back into the 1st round, look all the media "expert" douchebags in the face, give them the finger, and say Hmm, I think I'll draft the greatest Damned College Ball-Player to ever lace them up if you please and I don't give a Rats Ass what you think about it or where he is on your board!

That's pure P.I.M.P. right there.

very well said...and as much as i hated the decisions josh has made the last two offseasons i think what he did put his whole career in jepordy. he took the risk anyway. and like you said...it didn't matter where those players where on all the other scouts board...he had his own.

for that he's gained a little bit of respect from me. demaryius isnt a thug...he's much like eddie royal in the sense that "it's team first" and doesn't have any off field problems.

i love the center from notre dame and db cox choices. all of our linemen we drafted are extremely versatile and can play 2-3 positions each.


look....clausen is a good quarterback but imo isn't that great of a leader. tebow can and will lead this team and if this guy ever polishes his mechanics then look out nfl!

and dez bryant looks good on paper but him and josh would have eventually had a falling out.


i dont care what the pundits say....and i've never really personally liked mcdaniels. here's to the best 2010 season! :beer:

Shazam!
04-24-2010, 09:02 PM
Brother, it took straight up BALLS OF STEEL to trade back into the 1st round, look all the media "expert" douchebags in the face, give them the finger, and say Hmm, I think I'll draft the greatest Damned College Ball-Player to ever lace them up if you please and I don't give a Rats Ass what you think about it or where he is on your board!

That's pure P.I.M.P. right there.

As I said, shrewd doesnt cut it, maybe balls of steel does... he trades back twice to ge tsome comp for the dealing he had to do to ge tthe guy he wanted. It was clear he was committed to Tebow.

I love him.

Thank you Josh.

I know I'll see the Denver Broncos as Super Bowl Champions again in my lifetime.

OrangeHoof
04-24-2010, 09:07 PM
I think in the long run, McD is turning into Shanny Part II. He wants his players and to run things his way but he's as obsessed about the offense and as indifferent to the defense as Shanny was and this draft speaks volumes for that.

We're still not a very good defense. Once we began to display tendencies opponents could exploit, our defense went to seed and, just like Shanny, he's turning to stopgap free agents to plug holes and spouting the "veteran experience" talk for guys who are over the hill.

Now, with all that said, I thought he had a great second day drafting to revamp the offense. I don't get the Tebow pick at all in terms of building an offense. He's a fantastic college talent and "all he does is win", well so did Vince Young and I don't see any Super Bowl rings on Vince's fingers.

At this point, I see a 6-10 to 8-8 season.

OrangeHoof
04-24-2010, 09:14 PM
FWIW, I also think the Chargers widened the gap between themselves and the rest of the division this week.

BroncoWave
04-24-2010, 09:15 PM
I think in the long run, McD is turning into Shanny Part II. He wants his players and to run things his way but he's as obsessed about the offense and as indifferent to the defense as Shanny was and this draft speaks volumes for that.

We're still not a very good defense. Once we began to display tendencies opponents could exploit, our defense went to seed and, just like Shanny, he's turning to stopgap free agents to plug holes and spouting the "veteran experience" talk for guys who are over the hill.

Now, with all that said, I thought he had a great second day drafting to revamp the offense. I don't get the Tebow pick at all in terms of building an offense. He's a fantastic college talent and "all he does is win", well so did Vince Young and I don't see any Super Bowl rings on Vince's fingers.

At this point, I see a 6-10 to 8-8 season.

Good lord... :tsk:

You should watch his press conference about the second day. He said that they didn't plan on taking so many offensive guys it just so happened that that's the way the board fell and that the defensive guys they would have liked in those spots weren't there.

And based on his free agent signings this offseason and day 3 of the draft he clearly isn't ignoring the defense as you so ignorantly state.


:lol: Yeah, because QB's tend to win Super Bowls in their first few years in the league. As for VY, though, he made the Pro Bowl as a rookie and nearly brought the Titans all the way back from 0-6 to the playoffs last year.

BroncoWave
04-24-2010, 09:18 PM
And as for "ignoring the defense" you also seem to forget him bringing in Brian Dawkins and trading a future first rounder for Alphonso Smith. Say what you want about that pick but he clearly wasn't ignoring the defense there.

TimTebow15MVP
04-24-2010, 09:24 PM
I dont get how you bring in brian dawkins, goodman, draft ayers. draft mcbath, bruton, cox, sydquan, sign williams bannan and green and say hes ignoring the defense....but whatever. let the haters hate.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-24-2010, 09:30 PM
Now, with all that said, I thought he had a great second day drafting to revamp the offense. I don't get the Tebow pick at all in terms of building an offense. He's a fantastic college talent and "all he does is win", well so did Vince Young and I don't see any Super Bowl rings on Vince's fingers.

At this point, I see a 6-10 to 8-8 season.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Tebow (or any rookie QB for that matter) won't be starting for Denver this year, we already have Orton to start.

If we're 6-10 to 8-8 it WON'T be because of Tim Tebow. You may be correct on your record prediction, but our defensive line is much improved right now, too. We actually have D-linemen that fit the 3-4 scheme, not just 4-3 castoffs being used as plug-ins. I don't know if the defense will be any better , but I don't think they'll be too much worse.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-24-2010, 09:39 PM
I am a fan of the Broncos, and I do not have the knowledge to sit here and say that Coach McD had a terrible draft, or not; therefore, I am putting my confidence in him making the right moves. Am I happy with him drafting Tebow - I definitely am. I have backed Orton on here, but I truly believe if Coach McD can work with Tebow, and according to Gruden, Coach McD is the perfect person to do that, Tebow can/will develop into one of the elite quarterbacks, and boy, would that be great to see once again for the Orange & Blue.

Lonestar
04-24-2010, 09:43 PM
When He first came to town and said up front he wanted the players to get bigger, stronger, faster, smarter and more versatile He had me.

I had really wanted Spagnola as the Defense sucked donkey balls for YEARS.

HE looked at every facet of the team and told Pat what he wanted to do with it and I'm sure just about he was going to do it.

Pat and Joe bought the spiel and it has been a great ride for me since. I was no secret that I felt mike was nothing more than great OC and even at that he was getting stale and complacent.

Most folks thought I hated him I was I guess more disgusted with his total lack of concern for the LOS players and that the defense was patchwork at best for his entire time in DEN. While the ZBS worked well at first we had some HOF caliber guys making it work. When they moved on then we still had a great O between the 20's but sucked in the RZ and because of the players he had brought in cheap OLINE guys that could block as aunit but not one on one.

I knew way back that we had to pay more attention on day one for LOS players. I really thought he figured it out when he drafted foster only to find out he was a total reach as a#1 choice. I think from that time on he was reluctant to go LOS day one.


I digress but had to set up why I found Josh to be a fresh face.

But the kid brought in Nolan who knew 3-4 and he helped him to get it started. But then he started saying things about the "great Offense" we had the year before that scared me until I understood it. He was going to meld into the ZBS a power blocking Scheme he KNEW up front what Mike failed to grasp for years that the ZBS just did not get it done with mine OLINE players, It all came back to getting Bigger, faster, smarter and stronger.

When he signed Paxton I was pissed and thought well maybe he does not know so much. then he took the Bear by the horns and told the "franchise QB that he would have to work for his starting job, he demoted Bates from signal caller to clip board holder.

Like most I was concerned that the O would fall apart with out jay, Most will say it did.

I put the blame where it should have been placed getting beat on both sides of the LOS. BEcause our players on the LOS flat were not big enough to play a full season with out some major rotational stuff.

The OLG has IMO been weak spot for several years and frankly the ZBS covered up Ben's weakness of not being strong enough to PBS take on the DT or NT and win the battle. I started to see this when we changed to the drop back passing scheme that came in with dingier and jay. Whne Nails was next to him they pooled their talent to slow NOT stop them from getting pushed back into the pocket, nails went down a casey helped mask his weakness also .

I'm totally convinced that Rick thought he come coach up the OLINE to make the transition, BUT since he has never played the position and ONLY learned ZBS he failed as did the OLINE when they were discovered to suck at PBS. Hamilton was replaced and when Harris went down they folded like a cheap tent during Katrina.

While some called Orton a failure because he was not jay I saw it as what it was . If the NT or DT is getting pushed back into the pocket Orton had nowhere to go but dump the ball off or take the sack. It could have been Elway back there with no time and no where to go in the pocket crap was going to happen.


Now Josh seemingly has fixed the OLG and OC spot and even has a few extra BIG bodies to create competition. There and Hired some real OLINE coaches. that problem will not disappear over night but it should allow the RB a bigger hole to hit and the QB some extra time to find WR that now can make more than one move to get open.


He got some big balls to replace the DL in FA, and while I thought he would find some B/U folks there it did not happen.

I think his moving around in the first round like the target for "Dodge Ball" was brilliant getting extra picks while getting a BM clone that is faster and of "better" character. He picked up Tebow in what some thought was a foolish move, but since they have NO idea what was going on he made a ballsy move to get him.

The question is will Tebow be the QB of the future?

That remains to be seen. In the mean time it will be fun watching an actual tough TEAM for a change.

titan
04-24-2010, 09:47 PM
I've never seen a bronco head coach emphasize character and leadership so much in his drafts. It'll take a few seasons for McDaniels to get all of "his type" of guys in place. I like it and I think it'll payoff long term.

Just last year I thought Dawkins was an over the hill unnecessary free agent signing, not realizing what character he had. Much to my surprise Dawkins had a great season and inspired the defense (especially early on). I think Tebow and others drafted this week are cut from the same cloth.

SR
04-24-2010, 09:50 PM
Josh McDaniels reminds me a lot of President Bush...not the most popular guys that don't make the most popular decisions, but have the best interest of the "team" in mind.

Ziggy
04-24-2010, 09:53 PM
Welcome to the light side HP. Good to have ya!

HORSEPOWER 56
04-24-2010, 09:55 PM
Welcome to the light side HP. Good to have ya!

The spark was always there, it was just buried deep down. It needed the right fuel - this draft was that fuel.

dogfish
04-24-2010, 10:48 PM
yea, welcome back homes. . .


:welcome:

dogfish
04-24-2010, 10:49 PM
I think I'm probably standing on an island, considering I've tried to stand pat and support McDraftFail through all the changes he made, and in a matter of one pick (not trade), he completely changed my view of everything I thought I knew about him.

did we draft tim tebow, or satan??


:confused:

dogfish
04-24-2010, 10:50 PM
I think in the long run, McD is turning into Shanny Part II. He wants his players and to run things his way but he's as obsessed about the offense and as indifferent to the defense as Shanny was and this draft speaks volumes for that.

We're still not a very good defense. Once we began to display tendencies opponents could exploit, our defense went to seed and, just like Shanny, he's turning to stopgap free agents to plug holes and spouting the "veteran experience" talk for guys who are over the hill.

Now, with all that said, I thought he had a great second day drafting to revamp the offense. I don't get the Tebow pick at all in terms of building an offense. He's a fantastic college talent and "all he does is win", well so did Vince Young and I don't see any Super Bowl rings on Vince's fingers.

At this point, I see a 6-10 to 8-8 season.

vince has started like two-and-a-half years, what do you expect?

:lol:

wait, tell me how long it took john elway to get some rings on his fingers before you answer that. . .

topscribe
04-24-2010, 10:55 PM
Brother, it took straight up BALLS OF STEEL to trade back into the 1st round, look all the media "expert" douchebags in the face, give them the finger, and say, "Hmm, I think I'll draft the greatest Damned College Ball-Player to ever lace them up if you please and I don't give a Rats Ass what you think about it or where he is on your board!"

That's pure P.I.M.P. right there.

Ummm . . . *ahem* . . . well, that's one way of putting it, I guess . . . :redface:

I do admire McDaniels for his intestinal fortitude. I believe he's wrong, but I do admire him . . .

-----

Tned
04-24-2010, 10:56 PM
vince has started like two-and-a-half years, what do you expect?

:lol:

wait, tell me how long it took john elway to get some rings on his fingers before you answer that. . .

He had this really flashy pinky ring his rookie year.... ;)

topscribe
04-24-2010, 10:57 PM
I think I'm probably standing on an island, considering I've tried to stand pat and support McDraftFail through all the changes he made, and in a matter of one pick (not trade), he completely changed my view of everything I thought I knew about him.

C'mon Silk . . . not every decision he makes is going to be right. He's, like, human, y'know?

He doesn't have us in the cellar yet . . . :D

-----

NameUsedBefore
04-24-2010, 11:31 PM
This draft was depressingly bad. The Broncos are the laughing stock of the league, to be frank. In the face of that, I'd also use lingo like "it came from the heart, man".

atwater27
04-24-2010, 11:35 PM
And as for "ignoring the defense" you also seem to forget him bringing in Brian Dawkins and trading a future first rounder for Alphonso Smith. Say what you want about that pick but he clearly wasn't ignoring the defense there.

Brian Dawkins is clearly the future of the franchise, and Alphonso Smith was clearly worth the 1st rounder.

MileHiWildcat
04-24-2010, 11:41 PM
Too bad the little fuhrer forgot to fix the one part of the team that broke down after 6 games last year - the D line.

BroncoWave
04-24-2010, 11:43 PM
Brian Dawkins is clearly the future of the franchise, and Alphonso Smith was clearly worth the 1st rounder.

That's not the point. The point is the asinine claim that McDaniels is ignoring the defense, when that is clearly not the case.

BroncoWave
04-24-2010, 11:44 PM
Too bad the little fuhrer forgot to fix the one part of the team that broke down after 6 games last year - the D line.

Yeah, because he didn't sign 3 d-linemen in free agency or anything.

Some people on here are just allergic to fact.

honz
04-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Too bad the little fuhrer forgot to fix the one part of the team that broke down after 6 games last year - the D line.
Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, Jarvis Green...

honz
04-24-2010, 11:46 PM
This draft was depressingly bad. The Broncos are the laughing stock of the league, to be frank. In the face of that, I'd also use lingo like "it came from the heart, man".

No they aren't. A lot of people disagreed with the Tebow pick. Most people liked everything else we did. Time will tell who is right about Tebow.

BroncoWave
04-24-2010, 11:46 PM
Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, Jarvis Green...

Don't bring facts into the discussion, it ruins people's delusions about how McD is destroying the franchise!

MileHiWildcat
04-24-2010, 11:47 PM
Yeah, because he didn't sign 3 d-linemen in free agency or anything.

Some people on here are just allergic to fact.

Castoffs from other teams with maybe a year of value versus young talent that will be around awhile. What was the second half record last year after all the old dudes broke down ? 2-8. Next.

BroncoWave
04-24-2010, 11:50 PM
Castoffs from other teams with maybe a year of value versus young talent that will be around awhile. What was the second half record last year after all the old dudes broke down ? 2-8. Next.

Would you rather him have reached on d-linemen in the draft who wouldn't have been worth drafting at those spots? Drafting just to fill a need when there isn't a player at that spot worthy of being picked is the perfect recipe for a bad draft pick.

And now that we have much more depth on the d-line there is a good chance they won't tire as quickly.

MileHiWildcat
04-24-2010, 11:57 PM
Would you rather him have reached on d-linemen in the draft who wouldn't have been worth drafting at those spots? Drafting just to fill a need when there isn't a player at that spot worthy of being picked is the perfect recipe for a bad draft pick.

And now that we have much more depth on the d-line there is a good chance they won't tire as quickly.

Oh, you are right.....drafting a WR from a triple option offense because he reminded the coach of the stud he just ran out of town and picking up a QB without NFL-level talent were much better decisions. :rolleyes:

NameUsedBefore
04-24-2010, 11:58 PM
Would you rather him have reached on d-linemen in the draft who wouldn't have been worth drafting at those spots? Drafting just to fill a need when there isn't a player at that spot worthy of being picked is the perfect recipe for a bad draft pick.

Sounds like the Tim Tebow pick minus blowing draft picks to get into position.

Northman
04-25-2010, 12:00 AM
Definitely a positive step forward but time will tell yet. The rest of the division made some great picks of their own in the draft so this division is going to only get tougher from here on out in my opinion.

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 12:01 AM
Oh, you are right.....drafting a WR from a triple option offense because he reminded the coach of the stud he just ran out of town and picking up a QB without NFL-level talent were much better decisions. :rolleyes:

Because the type of offense a player plays in determines his talent level! :lol:

topscribe
04-25-2010, 12:02 AM
Too bad the little fuhrer forgot to fix the one part of the team that broke down after 6 games last year - the D line.

:confused: Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, Jarvis Green . . .

-----

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 12:02 AM
Sounds like the Tim Tebow pick minus blowing draft picks to get into position.

When you have a chance to draft what you think will be a franchise QB, you don't pass that up. McDaniels thinks Tebow will be just that and I applaud him for having the balls to go get him.

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 12:03 AM
:confused: Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, Jarvis Green . . .

-----

Nope, according to this guy since they are a bit older they don't count.

Shazam!
04-25-2010, 12:04 AM
No they aren't. A lot of people disagreed with the Tebow pick. Most people liked everything else we did. Time will tell who is right about Tebow.

For every person who disagreed with Tebow's pick, there's a slew of others (Gruden, Shanahan, Bellichick, Dungy, some NY Sports commentators to name a few) that agree with the notion that McDaniels got a bonafide star and possible franchise QB in Denver.

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 12:06 AM
For every person who disagreed with Tebow's pick, there's a slew of others (Gruden, Shanahan, Bellichick, Dungy, some NY Sports commentators to name a few) that agree with the notion that McDaniels got a bonafide star and possible franchise QB in Denver.

But what do those guys know? It's not like any of them have ever won a Super Bowl or anything! :lol:

jlarsiii
04-25-2010, 12:10 AM
For every person who disagreed with Tebow's pick, there's a slew of others (Gruden, Shanahan, Bellichick, Dungy, some NY Sports commentators to name a few) that agree with the notion that McDaniels got a bonafide star and possible franchise QB in Denver.

Time will tell. All we have right now is opinion and absolutely nothing else to go on so let the debate continue.


I do get the feeling that in another year or two I will probably view McD exactly like Shanny when it comes to drafts. There are always surprises. The defensive front 7 gets mostly ignored in the draft, and filled with FA retreads or older players outside the draft. Willing to take risks on players that may need to be coached up. The same ego to think that they can coach any player up to be a superstar. I am the only one who sees the similarities????

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 12:13 AM
Time will tell. All we have right now is opinion and absolutely nothing else to go on so let the debate continue.


I do get the feeling that in another year or two I will probably view McD exactly like Shanny when it comes to drafts. There are always surprises. The defensive front 7 gets mostly ignored in the draft, and filled with FA retreads or older players outside the draft. Willing to take risks on players that may need to be coached up. The same ego to think that they can coach any player up to be a superstar. I am the only one who sees the similarities????

Yeah, because we didn't draft Robert Ayers in the first round last year! :lol:

It's so hilarious how people on here just blatantly ignore facts to promote their hate for McDaniels.

Tned
04-25-2010, 12:52 AM
When you have a chance to draft what you think will be a franchise QB, you don't pass that up. McDaniels thinks Tebow will be just that and I applaud him for having the balls to go get him.

I am not convinced that Tebow can or will be our franchise QB. I hope he will, but simply don't know.

However, I agree 100% with you that when you need a long term answer at QB and you find yourself in position to draft one that you think will be, you do it. Just like Shanahan moving up to draft Cutler.

Time will tell whether or not McD's evaluations of Thomas and Tebow are correct, but the fact he wanted those players and essentially got them for the equivalent of a first and second round pick, I think is great.

Now, we just have to sit back and see how it turns out over the next couple years.

Tned
04-25-2010, 12:54 AM
Yeah, because we didn't draft Robert Ayers in the first round last year! :lol:

It's so hilarious how people on here just blatantly ignore facts to promote their hate for McDaniels.

To be fair, people on here also blatantly ignore facts (and rewrite history) to promote their love affair with McDaniels.

Northman
04-25-2010, 01:06 AM
Time will tell. All we have right now is opinion and absolutely nothing else to go on so let the debate continue.


I do get the feeling that in another year or two I will probably view McD exactly like Shanny when it comes to drafts. There are always surprises. The defensive front 7 gets mostly ignored in the draft, and filled with FA retreads or older players outside the draft. Willing to take risks on players that may need to be coached up. The same ego to think that they can coach any player up to be a superstar. I am the only one who sees the similarities????


Exactly. For every John Elway you have a Ryan Leaf, etc. Just because a coach has won a SB doesnt mean they are right about Tebow. Its just a wait and see process but for some like myself i just dont think he will succeed. But if he fails and every other pick we made works out than im a happy camper regardless.

Tned
04-25-2010, 01:10 AM
Exactly. For every John Elway you have a Ryan Leaf, etc. Just because a coach has won a SB doesnt mean they are right about Tebow. Its just a wait and see process but for some like myself i just dont think he will succeed. But if he fails and every other pick we made works out than im a happy camper regardless.

Just like some, like myself, didn't think dumping Cutler or Marshall was smart, but still hope his other moves will pan out and the Broncos will win and we'll be happy campers.

Northman
04-25-2010, 01:12 AM
Just like some, like myself, didn't think dumping Cutler or Marshall was smart, but still hope his other moves will pan out and the Broncos will win and we'll be happy campers.

Absolutely.

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 02:01 AM
Oddly enough, the forum seems much more relaxed after the draft than it did before. Even the folks who hated the Tebow pick seemed to have been pleased with the rest of the draft for the most part. Then again, maybe we're all just tired and glad that the draft is finally over.

Tned
04-25-2010, 02:04 AM
Oddly enough, the forum seems much more relaxed after the draft than it did before. Even the folks who hated the Tebow pick seemed to have been pleased with the rest of the draft for the most part. Then again, maybe we're all just tired and glad that the draft is finally over.

I think a lot of people very upset about dumping Cutler, at least have some hope that Tebow might be a long term QB solution. He's far from a sure thing, but is a much better long term prospect than Orton.

The offense was dismantled, but if those first round projects pan out (I know it's a big if), then we should have a nice offensive nucleus for quite a few years.

Elevation inc
04-25-2010, 02:12 AM
if woody paige likes tim tebow...im all for it....:lol:


seriously horse and woody are the identical scenario....2 guys couldnt stand the decisions made, then we draft tebow and woody and horse are on the light side....:lol:


good stuff.....


personally i've gone from the light side.....to i will just patiently wait and see and keep my mouth shut....

topscribe
04-25-2010, 02:47 AM
I think a lot of people very upset about dumping Cutler, at least have some hope that Tebow might be a long term QB solution. He's far from a sure thing, but is a much better long term prospect than Orton.

The offense was dismantled, but if those first round projects pan out (I know it's a big if), then we should have a nice offensive nucleus for quite a few years.

We don't know how much of a long term prospect Tebow is. He hasn't played
a down in the NFL.

We don't know how much of a long term prospect Orton is. While he hasn't
done badly, he still has barely played a down in a normal situation.

Truth is, none of us knows anything just yet, not even McDaniels. If he did,
they would not compete. He would just say who his QB is, and that would be
that, just as he did last year between Orton and Simms. And if you read the
quote I provided earlier, Orton has already said, in effect, "Not on my watch."

I believe we'll know a lot more a year from now . . .

-----

DenBronx
04-25-2010, 02:51 AM
People were elated when we reached for DE Jarvis Moss.

Yet, someone who could be a franchise QB in a couple of years your more ready to throw him under the buss then Jarvis Moss who wanted to quit during training camp because it was too hard for him. Wahhhhhh

Tebow will never quit on the Broncos. Contract or not he will be the first one on the field and the last to leave.

Tned
04-25-2010, 03:00 AM
We don't know how much of a long term prospect Tebow is. He hasn't played
a down in the NFL.

We don't know how much of a long term prospect Orton is. While he hasn't
done badly, he still has barely played a down in a normal situation.

Truth is, none of us knows anything just yet, not even McDaniels. If he did,
they would not compete. He would just say who his QB is, and that would be
that, just as he did last year between Orton and Simms. And if you read the
quote I provided earlier, Orton has already said, in effect, "Not on my watch."

I believe we'll know a lot more a year from now . . .

-----

Nobody knows if Bradford, Claussen or McCoy will be long term solutions. Same for the DT's picked in the top 5. So, that goes without saying.

However, since McDaniels traded for Quinn and drafted Tebow, he clearly thinks that Orton's upside is limited and is looking for long term solution other than Orton.

I know you are a big Orton backer, and FWIW, I think Orton did a good job last year, but few people see Orton as a big upside player.

DenBronx
04-25-2010, 03:15 AM
Nobody knows if Bradford, Claussen or McCoy will be long term solutions. Same for the DT's picked in the top 5. So, that goes without saying.

However, since McDaniels traded for Quinn and drafted Tebow, he clearly thinks that Orton's upside is limited and is looking for long term solution other than Orton.

I know you are a big Orton backer, and FWIW, I think Orton did a good job last year, but few people see Orton as a big upside player.

That's just it Orton has no more upside. He is who he is the rest of his career. Granted, with the right scheme, players and coaches he will look like a superstar and go 6-0 but later have a meltdown with the rest of the tea, if he isn't mentally strong enough.

I love when Tim Tebow rallied Florida last year after their only loss and told the team he would carry them on his back and they wouldn't lose again....and they didn't lose again.

i couldnt find the exact quote from that last statement but here is another....at 2:20...sounds like a quarterback that's extremely passionate about his team. sorry, i have no clue how to embed this...mods you can if you know how. thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vAbtpakLg

topscribe
04-25-2010, 03:24 AM
Nobody knows if Bradford, Claussen or McCoy will be long term solutions. Same for the DT's picked in the top 5. So, that goes without saying.

However, since McDaniels traded for Quinn and drafted Tebow, he clearly thinks that Orton's upside is limited and is looking for long term solution other than Orton.

I know you are a big Orton backer, and FWIW, I think Orton did a good job last year, but few people see Orton as a big upside player.

I know you think I view Orton as a big upside player. I am saying I don't know.
No one saw Brees as a big upside player, or Plunkett. Because McDaniels knows
football doesn't mean his judgment is infallible. It was football people who chose
Leaf over Manning.

So yes, I have defended Orton. I know better than the baseless lies and
misconceptions that have been spewed forth about him. Why wouldn't I speak
up and try to correct the record, unless I chose to be a spineless spectator
about it?

I believe in giving a person a fair chance. Orton has not had a fair chance in
his entire career. I want to see what he can do with the same advantages
virtually all his QB colleagues have been able to enjoy. Until then, neither you
nor I knows how much more upside he has. I'll reserve my judgment instead of
spout off about what a bum he is on the field. (I know you haven't done that.
I'm speaking generically.)

Same with Tebow. I expressed my doubts about his being of franchise caliber
in the pros, while admitting I don't know because I haven't seen him as a pro.
It's about giving him a chance, too.

I don't know what is so unreasonable about that . . . :coffee:

-----

DenBronx
04-25-2010, 03:32 AM
Top, Orton has had plenty of chances in Chicago and had a chance last year in Denver. We all know what we are getting with Orton. A guy that can manage the game and hit 15 yard cross and comeback patterns very well. He is a good guy, knows alot about football but won't be anywhere near what we had with Elway. At least Tebow can learn all the mechanics from guys like Orton and Quinn and just maybe he will be something like the great one some day.

And relax, Orton isn't going to lose his job this year unless he gets beaten out. I'm sure that would be a good sign of progression for either Tebow or Quinn. If Orton is so great then he should still have the job at the end of the year.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 03:39 AM
Top, Orton has had plenty of chances in Chicago and had a chance last year in Denver. We all know what we are getting with Orton. A guy that can manage the game and hit 15 yard cross and comeback patterns very well. He is a good guy, knows alot about football but won't be anywhere near what we had with Elway. At least Tebow can learn all the mechanics from guys like Orton and Quinn and just maybe he will be something like the great one some day.

And relax, Orton isn't going to lose his job this year unless he gets beaten out. I'm sure that would be a good sign of progression for either Tebow or Quinn. If Orton is so great then he should still have the job at the end of the year.

Orton had NO chance in Chicago, and he had no chance here. In Chicago, he
played with a pathetic O-line and receivers and a subpar defense (except in
2005 when he was a rookie, and rookies do not ordinarily do especially well),
and then a high ankle sprain for the last half of the year.

He had NO chance here, playing first with a compound dislocation of his right
index finger - the one that guides the football - then a high ankle sprain, and
again a poor defense in the final half of the season.

Do you call that a chance? What would you call it if you had that kind of a
"chance"? Orton still has not played professional ball when he is healthy, in a
familiar offense, and halfway decent blockers and receivers, all at the same
time. I would like to see him perform under those circumstances.

So you go ahead and claim you know. I believe I am the reasonable one here
by saying that I don't know, yet . . .

-----

DenBronx
04-25-2010, 04:03 AM
Orton had NO chance in Chicago, and he had no chance here. In Chicago, he
played with a pathetic O-line and receivers and a subpar defense (except in
2005 when he was a rookie, and rookies do not ordinarily do especially well),
and then a high ankle sprain for the last half of the year.

He had NO chance here, playing first with a compound dislocation of his right
index finger - the one that guides the football - then a high ankle sprain, and
again a poor defense in the final half of the season.

Do you call that a chance? What would you call it if you had that kind of a
"chance"? Orton still has not played professional ball when he is healthy, in a
familiar offense, and halfway decent blockers and receivers, all at the same
time. I would like to see him perform under those circumstances.

So you go ahead and claim you know. I believe I am the reasonable one here
by saying that I don't know, yet . . .

-----

your saying that taking them to the 2005 superbowl wasnt a chance?

MileHighCrew
04-25-2010, 08:12 AM
I don't know if I'm drinking all the kool-aid, but I don't think I am always negative. I do know my wife said she is surprised I haven't cursed McD once in the past few days, which is a first around my house

EastCoastBronco
04-25-2010, 09:28 AM
I like Kool-Aid.
Not as much as an ice cold Sam Adams.
But I like it.

If you don't drink the Kool-Aid...There is nothing to hope for...;-)

Northman
04-25-2010, 09:56 AM
People were elated when we reached for DE Jarvis Moss.

Yet, someone who could be a franchise QB in a couple of years your more ready to throw him under the buss then Jarvis Moss who wanted to quit during training camp because it was too hard for him. Wahhhhhh

Tebow will never quit on the Broncos. Contract or not he will be the first one on the field and the last to leave.


http://www.e-tarocchi.com/crystalball/images/crystalBall1.jpg

Denver Native (Carol)
04-25-2010, 10:07 AM
Coach McD will determine, based on training camp and preseason, who the starting QB will be. That is no different than any other head coach. Coach McD knows that the decisions he makes affect his coaching career, and he is not going to just throw a player out there as the starting QB who did not earn it.

GEM
04-25-2010, 10:21 AM
I'm on board, I always have been. I have Broncos tourettes once in awhile. I get pissed off and then cool off and look for the positives. Too many negatives in life to live in a cloud of negativity. I don't choose to fool myself into believing I know more than a guy who lives the NFL and has since a very young age. If I am proven wrong, well that sucks, but the important things in my life, my kids, my family, my job are still as they were before some guy came in and made some effed up decisions. So....GO BRONCOS! :D

horsepig
04-25-2010, 10:55 AM
For every person who disagreed with Tebow's pick, there's a slew of others (Gruden, Shanahan, Bellichick, Dungy, some NY Sports commentators to name a few) that agree with the notion that McDaniels got a bonafide star and possible franchise QB in Denver.

Gruden, Shanny, Belichick, Dungy......... A few guys in there I would be inclined to listen to.

horsepig
04-25-2010, 11:10 AM
Time will tell. All we have right now is opinion and absolutely nothing else to go on so let the debate continue.


I do get the feeling that in another year or two I will probably view McD exactly like Shanny when it comes to drafts. There are always surprises. The defensive front 7 gets mostly ignored in the draft, and filled with FA retreads or older players outside the draft. Willing to take risks on players that may need to be coached up. The same ego to think that they can coach any player up to be a superstar. I am the only one who sees the similarities????

The similarities are there and are ofsome minor concern so far.

McD needs more time, after the picks of Alphonzo and Quinn last year I was really worried but, I'm happy with this draft.

They didn't really have both feet in the door last year and that whole draft can be looked at as an anomaly, if, they continue to draft wisely from here on. I too wanted some ILB help but, I can't complain about the holes they filled. If the defensive guys you want are always gone when your pick comes around, you go elsewhere. Look for some serious defense side picks, as well a RB, next year.

You can't, IMO, rebuild it all in one good draft, you have to do it every year.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 12:35 PM
your saying that taking them to the 2005 superbowl wasnt a chance?

Orton did not play in the 2005 Super Bowl. In fact, the Bears did not play in
that Super Bowl. They went in 2006.

As a rookie in 2005, Orton replaced the injured Grossman and quarterbacked
the Bears to a 10-5 record. He then was unceremoniously, inexplicably dumped
for Grossman, who had healed of his injury, in the postseason. Grossman then
proceeded to stink the joint up in a loss to Carolina.

As I mentioned, Orton was a rookie that year. He was thrown into the fire,
despite warnings by scouts that he was not ready just to step into a starting role,
that he would have to be developed. So, even though he finished that year with a
winning record, that was not any kind of "chance" to prove his upside.

To obdurately insist that Orton could not play any better than he has, based on
what he has gone through to this point, is just ignorant. He has had precious little
chance to demonstrate it. That is fact.

There are a few games where Orton played healthy and had a bit of experience
(but not a lot) under his belt. One was in the first few games of 2008, before
he suffered his high ankle sprain. During that spell, he was playing with a
pathetic O-line and subpar receivers, and an ineffective running game. Yet
check out this little piece from the Chicago Tribune, dated 20 Oct 2008:



That mentality has helped the Bears thrive. In the last three games, Orton has completed 71 of 109 passes for 903 yards with five touchdowns, no interceptions and a 106.2 passer rating.


"We feel that he's turned into one of the top guys in the league," said tight end Greg Olsen. "Besides the physical tools and being able to make all the throws, he's a guy with total command of the game plan and the offense. He gets us in and out of good plays.


The coaches put a lot on him, sending him to the line with a couple of options and relying on him to make the right decision, and for the most part he almost always does.


In Sunday's win, Orton completed 21 of 32 passes for 283 yards with 2 touchdowns, no interceptions and a 114.5 passer rating. The former Purdue star easily could have had three more TD passes, but Marty Booker dropped two throws in the end zone and Desmond Clark fumbled at the 1-yard line.


"I don't think we have any egos on our offense," Orton said. "It's a group effort. That's how we treat it at practice, that's how we treat it in games. It doesn't matter if we're getting cheered, if we're getting booed, whatever the case is. It's 11 guys in there together trying to get it done, and it's a great feeling out there."


Operating a no-huddle offense at times throughout Sunday's game, Orton completed at least two passes to seven different receivers. Of his 21 completions, nine went to tight ends, eight were caught by receivers and four went to running backs.


"When that ball's flying around and we're going no-huddle, we've got a team on its heels, and it's fun," Olsen said. "We feel like we're in total control of dictating to them, dictating what they can do to us, and that's a good feeling."And this from the Denver Post about that same stretch:


"Check out the three-week stretch of statistics directly before his injury: 301.0 passing yards per game, five touchdown passes, no interceptions and a 106.2 rating. And that was while playing quarterback for defensive-minded head coach Lovie Smith.(I don't have a date or link to that article. Both quotes were retrieved from
MileHighReport.com (http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/19/840423/tales-who-is-kyle-orton).)



You should know about the first seven games last year (2009). Playing the first
ten of those games with a heavily bandaged right index finger, on a team
where not just he, but everybody, was learning a radically new offense . . . and
getting to know one another . . . Orton managed a 90+ QBR, throwing for 11
TDs and 4 INTs. (Up until the Baltimore game, he had a grand total of 1 INT.)


So the few games he has been able to play without injury, he has come
through big-time, yet he still had the obstacles of inferior supporting casts and
other obstacles.


(A pretty good education on Orton is provided in an article in MHR, titled "Who
Is Kyle Orton?" It can be found here (http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/19/840423/tales-who-is-kyle-orton).)




(An aside: One of the writers criticizing the selection of Tebow remarked that
"none of the three quarterbacks [Tebow, Quinn, Orton] has a deep arm." Check
this out at :55 in this flick: )


EE2CxDWm1sc

(Actually, he did that for us a few times this last year . . . twice in the KC game.)


No, Orton has not had a real chance to prove what he can really do in the NFL.
But when he was healthy, he demonstrated that, when given that chance, he
might show us something more than we have seen to this point.


-----

Tned
04-25-2010, 12:39 PM
No, Orton has not had a real chance to prove what he can really do in the NFL.
But when he was healthy, he demonstrated that, when given that chance, he
might show us something more than we have seen to this point.


-----

Well, short of an injury or him really stinking it up in TC/preseason, he should have every opportunity to force the Broncos to keep Tebow on the bench, or to showcase his skills for another team, just like Jake did in '06. I don't think any NFL player can ask for more than that.

turftoad
04-25-2010, 12:47 PM
No, Orton has not had a real chance to prove what he can really do in the NFL.
But when he was healthy, he demonstrated that, when given that chance, he
might show us something more than we have seen to this point.


-----

It's pretty evident that Orton hasn't shown enough to the Denver Brass. They are the ones that see him every day in practice. If he had, we wouldn't have over paid for Tebow in the first round.
Teams don't draft a QB in the first to have them sit on the bench for too darn long.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 12:52 PM
Well, short of an injury or him really stinking it up in TC/preseason, he should have every opportunity to force the Broncos to keep Tebow on the bench, or to showcase his skills for another team, just like Jake did in '06. I don't think any NFL player can ask for more than that.

It is my impression that Orton was dumped for Grossman in 2006 and 2007
because Grossman was the #1 draft choice (another 1st round bust, BTW). I'm
hoping Denver's coaches are a bit more fair to Tebow and Orton than that because
there is going to be an awful lot of pressure involving Tebow's 1st round status.

But if they are fair and Tebow ultimately wins the job, that will be good for the
Broncos. If Orton, however, plays up to the potential he has threatened to do and
keeps the job, that will be good for the Broncos.

In such a case, as I mentioned elsewhere, that could turn into a Brees/Rivers-type
of situation (and Favre/Rodgers, to a degree), where Orton would keep Tebow
on the bench for a spell, then, if Tebow fulfills his potential, Orton would go on
to star somewhere else and Tebow would take over the reins here.

Of course, that's an awful lot of speculating. All I am trying to do here is
express that we just may have more than one good QB on our hands. Which
would be terrific, wouldn't it?

-----

broncobryce
04-25-2010, 12:53 PM
Tebow is at worst a nice option in the wildcat and vastly improves our short yardage and red zone offense (a major problem in past years) and at best a championship level QB. People act like he has no value for 3 years, but that's bullshit.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 12:54 PM
It's pretty evident that Orton hasn't shown enough to the Denver Brass. They are the ones that see him every day in practice. If he had, we wouldn't have over paid for Tebow in the first round.
Teams don't draft a QB in the first to have them sit on the bench for too darn long.

Two words: Tommy Maddox.


I presented an awful lot of information here, as I have all along. That is has
apparently had little impact on this board saddens me . . .

-----

turftoad
04-25-2010, 12:56 PM
It is my impression that Orton was dumped for Grossman in 2006 and 2007
because Grossman was the #1 draft choice (another 1st round bust, BTW). I'm
hoping Denver's coaches are a bit more fair to Tebow and Orton than that because
there is going to be an awful lot of pressure involving Tebow's 1st round status.

But if they are fair and Tebow ultimately wins the job, that will be good for the
Broncos. If Orton, however, plays up to the potential he has threatened to do and
keeps the job, that will be good for the Broncos.

In such a case, as I mentioned elsewhere, that could turn into a Brees/Rivers-type
of situation (and Favre/Rodgers, to a degree), where Orton would keep Tebow
on the bench for a spell, then, if Tebow fulfills his potential, Orton would go on
to star somewhere else and Tebow would take over the reins here.

Of course, that's an awful lot of speculating. All I am trying to do here is
express that we just may have more than one good QB on our hands. Which
would be terrific, wouldn't it?

-----

Comparing Orton to Rivers or Brees is a very far reach. I don't believe he has the tools to star anywhere. He's servicable at best. I believe the Broncos brass feels the same way or there would be no B. Quinn or Tebow in the mix.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Comparing Orton to Rivers or Brees is a very far reach. I don't believe he has the tools to star anywhere. He's servicable at best. I believe the Broncos brass feels the same way or there would be no B. Quinn or Tebow in the mix.

In your opinion, it is a reach. In mine, it may not be. You are judging from what
you have seen, and I have tried (in vain, apparently) to show that you have
not seen what Orton can really do. I am not judging at all. I am only saying that I
want to see Orton where he is not playing against all the handicaps and
obstacles he has faced before I make a final judgment.

I am truly sorry that this appears unreasonable to so many . . .

-----

broncobryce
04-25-2010, 01:02 PM
In your opinion, it is a reach. In mine, it may not be. You are judging from what
you have seen, and I have tried (in vain, apparently) to show that you have
not seen what Orton can really do. I am not judging at all. I am only saying that I
want to see Orton where he is not playing against all the handicaps and
obstacles he has faced before I make a final judgment.

I am truly sorry that this appears unreasonable to so many . . .

-----

Orton should get his chance this season, after we shored up the interior O-line.:beer:

turftoad
04-25-2010, 01:03 PM
In your opinion, it is a reach. In mine, it may not be. You are judging from what
you have seen, and I have tried (in vain, apparently) to show that you have
not seen what Orton can really do. I am not judging at all. I am only saying that I
want to see Orton where he is not playing against all the handicaps and
obstacles he has faced before I make a final judgment.

I am truly sorry that this appears unreasonable to so many . . .

-----

Top, do really truley think that Orton is as good as Rivers and Brees? Please don't say it's so. :shocked:

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:03 PM
Two words: Tommy Maddox.


I presented an awful lot of information here, as I have all along. That is has
apparently had little impact on this board saddens me . . .

-----

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Denver didn't trade 3 picks to go up and get Tommy Maddox. Also, Tebow isn't competing against a guy who had led his team to 3 Super Bowl appearances. I can't believe you actually just compared that situation to this one.

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:05 PM
In your opinion, it is a reach. In mine, it may not be. You are judging from what
you have seen, and I have tried (in vain, apparently) to show that you have
not seen what Orton can really do. I am not judging at all. I am only saying that I want to see Orton where he is not playing against all the handicaps and
obstacles he has faced before I make a final judgment.

I am truly sorry that this appears unreasonable to so many . . .

-----

Please. You made your final judgment on Orton a long time ago.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:07 PM
Top, do really truley think that Orton is as good as Rivers and Brees? Please don't say it's so. :shocked:

Turf, do you have problems with reading comprehension?

I said I DON'T KNOW at this stage. I do remember Brees his first two or three
years. You don't? Brees didn't come on until the Chargers got Rivers.

Orton deserves the same chance. As I said, I will know more next year.

I don't know how to break this down more simple than this. :tsk:

-----

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:09 PM
Please. You made your final judgment on Orton a long time ago.

Don't you tell me what judgments I have made.

Take your ignorant arrogance elsewhere and personally attack someone else.

-----

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:10 PM
Don't you tell me what judgments I have made.

Take your ignorant arrogance elsewhere and personally attack someone else.

-----

:lol: Please. Nothing I said in that post was a personal attack. It was an observation based on every post you have made about Orton.

And the second sentence in your post is so hilariously full of irony! :lol:

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:12 PM
:lol: Please. Nothing I said in that post was a personal attack. It was an observation based on every post you have made about Orton.

And the second sentence in your post is so hilariously full of irony! :lol:

I am not the topic here.

Do you have something intelligent to say about the topic?

Or can you say anything intelligent?

P.S. Please stop using the MHS to further attack me.

-----

broncobryce
04-25-2010, 01:16 PM
chill out with some kool-aid

honz
04-25-2010, 01:17 PM
I think Denver's plans at QB are pretty clear. It is most likely Orton's last year as a Bronco unless he accepts a role as a backup, which I doubt he would do...he is a competitor and would want a shot at starting somewhere. I think Quinn was brought in to avoid a situation like we had last year against the Redskins and provide us with a reliable backup...I also think he has a legit shot at beating out Orton for the starting gig if he can learn the offense quickly. However, there is no doubt that the plan is to have Tebow take over as our QB as soon as he is ready and not relinquish the job for a long time.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:17 PM
I ask you again, BTB: Stop using the MHS to attack me.

----

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:18 PM
I am not the topic here.



-----


Or can you say anything intelligent?



Take your ignorant arrogance elsewhere and personally attack someone else.

-----

But I am? :confused:

honz
04-25-2010, 01:18 PM
Oh, a BTB vs. Top argument. Let me go heat up some popcorn.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:20 PM
Thankfully, only one poster in this thread does not care to post on the topic.

Thank you to everyone else. :beer:

-----

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Oh, a BTB vs. Top argument. Let me go heat up some popcorn.

I have no problem when someone disagrees with me on the topic.

It's when they start talking about me that I have the problem.

Especially when it is the poster who has made it his M.O. to do so.

-----

Nomad
04-25-2010, 01:26 PM
Is the koolaid alot like 'jungle juice':D! :drinking: I do hope McDaniels has this team heading in the right direction and I'm anxious for TC and the season to get here whether or not Tebow plays a down!!

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:29 PM
I have no problem when someone disagrees with me on the topic.

It's when they start talking about me that I have the problem.

-----

When you post something on a topic that's contradictory to everything else you have posted, it's completely fair to mention that. You've never had anything but positive things to say about Orton so when you say that you "haven't made your final judgment on him", it rings a little hollow.

Besides, this thread was about Tebow and the draft and every post of mine in this thread had followed that topic until you came in here talking about Orton and I challenged that.

But go ahead and ignore my post and keep playing the victim card.

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:31 PM
I am not the topic here.



specially when it is the poster who has made it his M.O. to do so.

-----

Irony, irony, irony! :lol:

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 01:37 PM
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Denver didn't trade 3 picks to go up and get Tommy Maddox. Also, Tebow isn't competing against a guy who had led his team to 3 Super Bowl appearances. I can't believe you actually just compared that situation to this one.

Why don't you respond to this post top? It was completely on topic and had nothing resembling a personal attack in it. Funny how you ignore posts like this that relevantly challenge your opinion but the first post where you can find something that you can twist something as a personal attack, you are all over that and playing the victim card, while making way more blatant personal attacks than the ones you falsely accused me of making.

Tned
04-25-2010, 01:39 PM
I ask you again, BTB: Stop using the MHS to attack me.

----

That's what this http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif button is for. All you guys are doing is creating a mess for the mods to come and clean up.

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 01:40 PM
Brian Dawkins is clearly the future of the franchise, and Alphonso Smith was clearly worth the 1st rounder. Actually you could be wrong about both.

While Dawkins will not be around for a decade his desire, and guts will be around for years to come via the mentoring and leadership he has brought to the team SOmething we have always been known for GREAT Safeties going back decades including Atwater, Smith, Lynch all bring "game", huevous and leadership to the field.

Something that we have lacked since Lynch retired.

As for Smith few Late first round CB's make it big their rookie year. Lets give him a bit of time to grow.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:42 PM
That's what this http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif button is for. All you guys are doing is creating a mess for the mods to come and clean up.

Well, I have used it three times now, for all the good it apparently has done.

And notice that I have stopped posting, and the last several are his.

Not to mention several MHS messages from him.

-----

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 01:43 PM
This draft was depressingly bad. The Broncos are the laughing stock of the league, to be frank. In the face of that, I'd also use lingo like "it came from the heart, man".

Who cares what the rest of the "rest of the league" thinks.

Why are you worried about if the talking heads are not praising your team?

Everyone thought we were losers going into our first superbowl win also. INCLUDING many Bronco fans, while many of us hoped for a miracle we were dreading another HUGE ass kicking.

He who laughs last, laughs best.

Tned
04-25-2010, 01:46 PM
Well, I have used it three times now, for all the good it apparently has done.

And notice that I have stopped posting, and the last several are his.

Not to mention several MHS messages from him.

-----

Top, you know better. As you often say, you were the first mod.

Please PM a mod with details of the MHS messages.

Speaking of kool-aid, how about we get back to discussing that?

topscribe
04-25-2010, 01:47 PM
Top, you know better. As you often say, you were the first mod.

Please PM a mod with details of the MHS messages.

Speaking of kool-aid, how about we get back to discussing that?

Thank you. :focus:


I was wrong to react accordingly on the board. It should have been, as you
implied, directly to the mods.

BTW, I just received another MHS from our friend . . .

-----

Ravage!!!
04-25-2010, 01:49 PM
Speaking of Kool-aid, I find this funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujynoQDOqmc&feature=related

TimTebow15MVP
04-25-2010, 01:51 PM
the orange and blue kool aid taste good

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Castoffs from other teams with maybe a year of value versus young talent that will be around awhile. What was the second half record last year after all the old dudes broke down ? 2-8. Next. have you not noticed the kiddie talent we have behind these 3 solid Vets that are going to get a lot of experience, playing next to them during DL rotations

98 McBean, Ryan DL 6' 5" 297 25 3rd Oklahoma State FA- '08
93 Green, Jarvis DL 6' 3" 285 31 9th Louisiana State UFA (NE)-'10
91 Fields, Ronald DL 6' 2" 314 28 6th Mississippi State UFA(SF)- '09
Bannan, Justin DL 6' 3" 310 30 9th Colorado UFA (Balt)-'10
79 Thomas, Marcus DL 6' 3" 316 24 4th Florida D4- '07
97 Smith, Le Kevin DL 6' 3" 308 27 5th Nebraska T (NEP)-'09
Williams, Jamal DL 6' 3" 348 34 13th Oklahoma State UFA (SD)-'10
75 Baker, Chris DL 6' 2" 329 22 2nd Hampton CFA- '09

Not sure about you but this gives me long term hope that when the Older vets hang up there cleats these guys plus who we bring in next year will be ready to take their place.

Realistically does a Rookie DE or DT really contribute much to a team anyway. They usually take a couple of years to figure out where the latrine is.:laugh::laugh:

topscribe
04-25-2010, 02:03 PM
the orange and blue kool aid taste good

I'll admit: I'm full of that kool-aid.

But then, I've had about 50 years to drink it . . . :laugh:

-----

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 02:07 PM
Time will tell. All we have right now is opinion and absolutely nothing else to go on so let the debate continue.


I do get the feeling that in another year or two I will probably view McD exactly like Shanny when it comes to drafts. There are always surprises. The defensive front 7 gets mostly ignored in the draft, and filled with FA retreads or older players outside the draft. Willing to take risks on players that may need to be coached up. The same ego to think that they can coach any player up to be a superstar. I am the only one who sees the similarities????

I have had the same scary thoughts running through my head also. BUt I think once we have most of the pieces in place then he will revert to the NE Model first round pick for the LOS and front seven and Oline. look at that model here.

2009 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 34 Pat Chung DB Oregon
2 40 Ron Brace DT Boston College
2 41 Darius Butler DB Connecticut
2 58 Sebastian Vollmer T Houston
08
1 10 Jerod Mayo ILB Tennessee
2 62 Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado
3 78 Shawn Crable OLB Michigan
2007 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
4 127 Kareem Brown DT Miami (Fla.)
2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
3 95 Guss Scott SAF Florida
2003 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 13 Ty Warren DE Texas A&M
2 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois
2002 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado
2 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville
2001 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia
2 48 Matt Light T Purdue
3 86 Brock Williams CB Notre Dame
4 96 Kenyatta Jones T South Florida
1999 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Damien Woody C Boston College
1 28 Andy Katzenmoyer MLB Ohio State
2 46 Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State
3 91 Tony George DB Florida
1998 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 18 Robert Edwards RB Georgia
1 22 Tebucky Jones DB Syracuse
2 52 Tony Simmons WR Wisconsin
2 54 Rod Rutledge TE Alabama
1997 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 29 Chris Canty DB Kansas State
2 59 Brandon Mitchell DE Texas A&M
1996 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 7 Terry Glenn WR Ohio State
2 36 Lawyer Milloy SS Washington
3 86 Tedy Bruschi LB Arizona

Look at how many front seven players in that group, also look at the LOS players in TE and Front five Oline types.

Once the rookie contracts on a lot of these folks ran out and they wanted to much money they already had a spare part not eh shelf to plug in.

I believe that Josh has seen the light in the draft as far as Bill was concerned and will fall into this style once he has most of his pieces in place.

topscribe
04-25-2010, 02:11 PM
Time will tell. All we have right now is opinion and absolutely nothing else to go on so let the debate continue.


I do get the feeling that in another year or two I will probably view McD exactly like Shanny when it comes to drafts. There are always surprises. The defensive front 7 gets mostly ignored in the draft, and filled with FA retreads or older players outside the draft. Willing to take risks on players that may need to be coached up. The same ego to think that they can coach any player up to be a superstar. I am the only one who sees the similarities????

I'm glad you pointed that out. I never really noticed until now.

You and I both hope it's not true.

-----

OrangeHoof
04-25-2010, 02:45 PM
And as for "ignoring the defense" you also seem to forget him bringing in Brian Dawkins and trading a future first rounder for Alphonso Smith. Say what you want about that pick but he clearly wasn't ignoring the defense there.

Oh, ****. Shanny brought in Lynch and Bailey and what did that accomplish? And he drafted several DL in the early rounds. They were almost uniformly busts - as are Ayers and Smith so far.

If you took my post to mean McD did nothing about the defense, you have a reading comprehension problem. I'm saying he's indifferent to the defense because he's using the same formula of over-the-hill vets and mismatched rookies that Shanny used while continuing to put a bigger priority on getting bright shiny new toys for his offense.

My W-L prediction record is because I think the defense will backslide a bit from last year (we can't sneak up on teams like last year) while the offense will miss Marshall more than anyone thinks. And the Kool-Aid drinkers who think Jabar Gaffney will adequately replace him simply do not watch NFL football to be that ignorant.

Meanwhile, the Jets and Ravens continue to build championship defenses while we get all gaga about a receiver from a run-option offense and a quarterback with the worst mechanics I've ever seen from a first-rounder.

Tned
04-25-2010, 02:52 PM
My W-L prediction record is because I think the defense will backslide a bit from last year (we can't sneak up on teams like last year) while the offense will miss Marshall more than anyone thinks. And the Kool-Aid drinkers who think Jabar Gaffney will adequately replace him simply do not watch NFL football to be that ignorant.


The biggest question mark on defense is something few have been talking about and that is Mike Nolan leaving. During last season, everyone was talking about how the best offseason move that McDaniels made was bringing Nolan in. Now, he's gone and the defense may very well suffer as a result.

Lancane
04-25-2010, 02:52 PM
I admit that I'm far from a Kool-Aid drinker, but because of the solid additions via free agency and through the draft I've taken a sip or two, but I'm not ready to gulp the shit down just yet... We'll have to see what happens before I start pounding the Kool-Aid with Cuervo chasers!

;)

Nomad
04-25-2010, 03:11 PM
I admit that I'm far from a Kool-Aid drinker, but because of the solid additions via free agency and through the draft I've taken a sip or two, but I'm not ready to gulp the shit down just yet... We'll have to see what happens before I start pounding the Kool-Aid with Cuervo chasers!

;)

You would change your mind if it tasted like the Hurricane's at Pat O Briens on Bourbon St!!:D

Slick
04-25-2010, 03:12 PM
Video of Gruden working with Tebow...


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/12498/video-grudens-qb-camp-tim-tebow

broncohead
04-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Oh, ****. Shanny brought in Lynch and Bailey and what did that accomplish? And he drafted several DL in the early rounds. They were almost uniformly busts - as are Ayers and Smith so far.

Considering Ayers and Smith both busts already is pretty ignorant imo. It takes rookies a year or two to adjust to the NFL. Anybody who watches football knows this.


If you took my post to mean McD did nothing about the defense, you have a reading comprehension problem. I'm saying he's indifferent to the defense because he's using the same formula of over-the-hill vets and mismatched rookies that Shanny used while continuing to put a bigger priority on getting bright shiny new toys for his offense.

I think McD is doing a good job of balancing the two. We added a ton of DL depth in FA and DB last FA period while drafting a few defensive players this year and last. It was no secret we needed OL and WR help and we drafted accordingly. Is Tebow the only shiny toy your referring to?


My W-L prediction record is because I think the defense will backslide a bit from last year (we can't sneak up on teams like last year) while the offense will miss Marshall more than anyone thinks. And the Kool-Aid drinkers who think Jabar Gaffney will adequately replace him simply do not watch NFL football to be that ignorant.

On paper we look like a better team on defense imo. The biggest impact will be from losing Nolan. On offense Marshall's production will be missed but with addressing the OL and having depth there I think the running game will make up for it.


Meanwhile, the Jets and Ravens continue to build championship defenses while we get all gaga about a receiver from a run-option offense and a quarterback with the worst mechanics I've ever seen from a first-rounder.

We have a solid group of veteran players on defense. We also have a ton of younger guys at almost every position that we need to see how they will pan out. All is not lost. I think we are a better team then we were this time last year.

atwater27
04-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Video of Gruden working with Tebow...


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/12498/video-grudens-qb-camp-tim-tebow

Wow. That excited me a little bit. One thing is for certain. Tebow will try as hard as he can to be successful. I am pulling for him.
One other thing I noticed about that video.... John Gruden. I wish we could have hired him as our HC. Love the guy.

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 03:45 PM
Turf, do you have problems with reading comprehension?

I said I DON'T KNOW at this stage. I do remember Brees his first two or three
years. You don't? Brees didn't come on until the Chargers got Rivers.

Orton deserves the same chance. As I said, I will know more next year.

I don't know how to break this down more simple than this. :tsk:

----- Got to remember that Brees was on a pert lousy team those first couple years. a couple drafts away from 2 or three
#1 picks IIRC, that means they had the worst record in the NFL.

Even with a bunch of top 50 talent they take a couple of years to get it.

To mesh together and win games that first year Brees did well was because it was all coming together You also have to remember that until two years ago SAN WR's sucked. Until they brought in Chris Chambers, their passing game was LT out of the back field and Gates. PERIOD..

topscribe
04-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Got to remember that Brees was on a pert lousy team those first couple years. a couple drafts away from 2 or three
#1 picks IIRC, that means they had the worst record in the NFL.

Even with a bunch of top 50 talent they take a couple of years to get it.

To mesh together and win games that first year Brees did well was because it was all coming together You also have to remember that until two years ago SAN WR's sucked. Until they brought in Chris Chambers, their passing game was LT out of the back field and Gates. PERIOD..

Yes, of course. All I was doing was presenting a possible scenario on what could happen . . .

-----

broncophan
04-25-2010, 05:34 PM
One thing about it......I can never remember back to back off-seasons stirring up so many contraversies and discussions.

I like the fact that McD is building his team......and obviously hope it all works out.

Never a dull moment these days with our Broncos....

Medford Bronco
04-25-2010, 05:37 PM
Just start winning and making noise and we will all be on board.

Go Broncos. :salute:

OrangeHoof
04-25-2010, 06:45 PM
Considering Ayers and Smith both busts already is pretty ignorant imo. It takes rookies a year or two to adjust to the NFL. Anybody who watches football knows this.

I'd acknowledge it takes a rookie a year or two to adjust but you have to get on the field first. I saw extremely little of Ayers and Smith last year. Heck, Brian Cushing was drafted right near Ayers and was starting all season. Yet our #1 picks on defense stayed glued to the bench. Was their learning curve THAT steep?