Make your post draft season predictions

[Tned]

Ok, make your post draft '08 predictions here. We can make another round of pre-season predictions and then see how everyone does when the season is over.

Week 1 — At Oak.
Week 2 — San Diego.
Week 3 — New Orleans
Week 4 — at KC
Week 5 — Tampa Bay
Week 6 — Jacksonville
Week 7 — at New England
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami
Week 10 — at Cleveland
Week 11 — at Atlanta
Week 12 — Oakland
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets
Week 14 — Kansas City
Week 15 — at Carolina
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills
Week 17 — at San Diego

[NameUsedBefore]

I sold my soul.

[Tned]

Week 1 — At Oak. Loss
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Win
Week 4 — at KC Win
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Win
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win
Week 7 — at New England Loss
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at Cleveland Win
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win
Week 12 — Oakland Loss
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Win
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

[Nature Boy]

I voted 11-5 or better. We'll make the playoffs. I just don't know if we'll win the AFC West. Hopefully we're split our meetings with SD or at least not get thumped by them again 41-3 and 23-3 last season and losing both meetings in 2006 as well.

[Nature Boy]

Week 1 — At Oak. Loss
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Win
Week 4 — at KC Win
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Win
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win
Week 7 — at New England Loss
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at Cleveland Win
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win
Week 12 — Oakland Loss
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Win
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

How do you figure we'll lose game 1 to the Raiders? And lose to them again in week 12? Mike Shanahan rarely loses to the Raiders.

[Tned]

How do you figure we'll lose game 1 to the Raiders? And lose to them again in week 12? Mike Shanahan rarely loses to the Raiders.

Week one, prime time game, we don't have all our pieces together and we lose a close one that gets the message boards up in arms about how bad the season will be.

Week 12, McFadden rushes for 250+ game over

[broncohead]

We have a lot of young talent that needs to step up. Crowder, Moss, Thomas, Abdulah, Kuper, Harris, and many more including the rookies. I will wait till after pre-season to make a judgement.

[Nature Boy]

Week one, prime time game, we don't have all our pieces together and we lose a close one that gets the message boards up in arms about how bad the season will be.

Week 12, McFadden rushes for 250+ game over

I don't see it, not against the Raiders not with Jarmarcus Russell(who I hear currently weighs 300lbs). Talk about a team without their pieces together.

McFadden will be a huge bust, second coming of Lawrence Phillips. You heard it here 1st.

[honz]

10-6. The Broncos stumble into the bye week as everyone writes them off for the season, only to finish strong and earn a wildcard berth.

Week 1 — At Oak.WIN
Week 2 — San Diego.LOSS
Week 3 — New OrleansWIN
Week 4 — at KCWIN
Week 5 — Tampa BayLOSS
Week 6 — JacksonvilleLOSS
Week 7 — at New EnglandLOSS
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — MiamiWIN
Week 10 — at ClevelandLOSS
Week 11 — at AtlantaWIN
Week 12 — OaklandWIN
Week 13 — at N.Y. JetsWIN
Week 14 — Kansas CityWIN
Week 15 — at CarolinaWIN
Week 16 — Buffalo BillsWIN
Week 17 — at San DiegoLOSS

[shank]

i'd say 8-8 at the very worst, but i agree with honz that we will probably stumble out of the gate, but get it together after the bye. it's just too bad that some tough games come before the bye.

10-6, but on the rise for 09.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Cutler leads the Broncos to an 11-5 wild card and shows why he is one of the top 5 QB's in the league this year. Scheffler has a huge season and it's the return of the Champ. Along with big seasons from Denver's backfield, Tim Crowder, and another great season from B-Marsh. Eddie Royal shows why he's second round talent and becomes one of our favorite players to watch. Dumervil duplicates last season and the Chiefs aren't as good as they thought they would be.

[fcspikeit]

Week 1 — At Oak. WIN
Week 2 — San Diego. WIN
Week 3 — New Orleans LOSS
Week 4 — at KC WIN
Week 5 — Tampa Bay WIN
Week 6 — Jacksonville LOSS
Week 7 — at New England LOSS
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami WIN
Week 10 — at Cleveland LOSS
Week 11 — at Atlanta WIN
Week 12 — Oakland WIN
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets WIN
Week 14 — Kansas City WIN
Week 15 — at Carolina WIN
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills WIN
Week 17 — at San Diego LOSS

[sneakers]

I predict they will go 16-0 every year, why change now?

[WARHORSE]

Theres a bunchs homers wanderin around in here. Lets be real in our evaluations.

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..............:shocked:




...............:confused:




.................:shocked:




...................19-0

..................:coffee:

[WARHORSE]

I NEVER..........predict a Broncos loss.

Its like eatin an egg thats been buried for eight weeks................. just cant choke it down.

[BroncoBJ]

I'm thinking 12-4 or 11-5. Our predictions were similar Tned.
Though I have us losing to the Jags and the Pats :(
Then after the bye I have us losing to the Chargers And either the Browns or Panthers or both. Plus there will probably be a game I have us losing that we will win and a game I have us winning that we will lose.

I'll post more later but for now I think 10-6-13-3 :elefant:

[Stargazer]

I voted 8-8. I don't think the team is done with the overhaul.

[Retired_Member_001]

Anyone who says 10-6 could be called crazy. Anyone going for something over 10-6 is utterly insane.

I'm going 9-7 at the moment, although that could change depending on how things develop. I'm truly thinking 8-8 because I reckon we will lose a shocker, but 9-7 if I'm being positive.

Week 1 — At Oak. Win
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Loss
Week 4 — at KC Loss
Week 5 — Tampa BayWin
Week 6 — Jacksonville Loss
Week 7 — at New England Loss
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at ClevelandLoss
Week 11 — at AtlantaWin
Week 12 — Oakland Win
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Win
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills Loss
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

[BroncoWave]

8-8. I think some of you are getting your hopes up a little too high. We're not a playoff team yet IMO.

[Nomad]

I see many of you having us getting swept by AFC West teams. If the BRONCOS get swept by any team in the AFC West this year , I'd be the first on the Shanahan lynch mob, especially SD (I couldn't fathom 3 yrs in a row). I see Denver going 9-7 with Cutler having a great year.

[Dreadnought]

9-7; I am very positive about this team right now, but they are too raw and young yet, and will take some time to get this thing put together right.

I think the season will have us playing some superb games, making us think 97/98...then we will lay some eggs - losing badly against teams we have absolutely no business losing too. In 2008, Denver will be a nasty little team you don't want on your schedule, but 2009 is where we become a real force to be reckoned with again.

We sweep the Raiders, though :elefant:

[Tned]

Anyone who says 10-6 could be called crazy. Anyone going for something over 10-6 is utterly insane.

I'm going 9-7 at the moment, although that could change depending on how things develop. I'm truly thinking 8-8 because I reckon we will lose a shocker, but 9-7 if I'm being positive.



8-8. I think some of you are getting your hopes up a little too high. We're not a playoff team yet IMO.

You guys could be right, we might be bad. However, I think we played much worse last year than the talent on the team. I think it was a poorly coached team that looked totally lost out there. This is the reason that I expect a bounceback year in terms of record. It doesn't mean they will win the Super Bowl, but I do expect a much better record.

There are some questions. The biggest being:

Is Marshall going to be healthy
How quickly does LT/RT solidify
How quickly does the defense adapt to a third scheme in three years


The center of the line should be solid with Hamilton, Nalen and Holland/Kuper. Assuming Clady wins the LT job, then Kuper/Harris/Pears will fight for RT (the LT and RT fight could be swapped).

Scheffler has another year under his belt and should be entering camp healthy, Henry and young have proven to be a solid tandem when healthy, Cutler while still making mistakes is getting better with each game and is now in his third year.

So, assuming we can get a couple healthy/serviciable receivers across from Stokely, then the offense should be fine. If Marshall enters training camp fully healed with no after effects, than the Broncos should be in great shape on offense.

On defense, the Broncos have to show they can stop the run, but the Broncos went from 12th best at stopping the run in 2006 to 30th in 2007. Was that the loss of Warren and Wilson or the influence of Jim Bates? That is the question that needs to be answered. If with the addition of Robertson, along with Thomas being in his second year, and another year of experience for our young ends, and a healthy Ekuban playing end or tackle, I expect the run D to be much closer to '06 than '07.

I may just be one of the koolaide drinkers, but I think Shanahan made clear in his end of season news conferences that he had blown it at the coaching level. Attempting to implement schemes that didn't fit the personel. He said it 'carefully' to not through anyone completely under the bus, but he said it.

He stated they were going to get back to basics this year, running the kind of defense that had them consistantly in the top 10; solid against the run.

So, I look at a team that is 'on paper' better than the last two, possibly three years and think that the young players in their second and third years (Cutler, Scheffler, Dumervil, Crowder, Moss, Thomas, Kuper) will start to provide a return on investment. If we get any help from the rookies (Clady, Royal, etc.) than that will just be a bonus, but even without counting on the rookies, I anticipate a pretty substantial turnaround this year.

I've seen bad Broncos teams over the years, and talent wise, this isn't a bad Broncos team.

[TXBRONC]

Right now I would say between 8-8 and 9-7.

War, like you I just can't predict a Broncos loss. I know they happen but I don't want to do that.

[TXBRONC]

Anyone who says 10-6 could be called crazy. Anyone going for something over 10-6 is utterly insane.

I'm going 9-7 at the moment, although that could change depending on how things develop. I'm truly thinking 8-8 because I reckon we will lose a shocker, but 9-7 if I'm being positive.

Week 1 — At Oak. Win
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Loss
Week 4 — at KC Loss
Week 5 — Tampa BayWin
Week 6 — Jacksonville Loss
Week 7 — at New England Loss
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at ClevelandLoss
Week 11 — at AtlantaWin
Week 12 — Oakland Win
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Win
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills Loss
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

I don't think that's fair to call people crazy for thinking we could go 10-6. At this point it doesn't look probable from point of view but I also do see it as impossible.

Also a Denver loss at home against Buffalo I wouldn't predict that at this point because for the most part Denver still plays very well at home.

[Retired_Member_001]

TNED

You make some good points. I definitely think that the Broncos could come out and suprise us and play better than expected. It's just, I really think that the 12-4 prediction you handed out has no chance of happening. I think the peices are moving into place for this team to be great again, we are just missing a few peices. Even if the offensive line gels quickly, the running backs stay healthy and productive, Marshall stays out of trouble, Eddie Royal works out as a KR/PR, Robertson stays healthy, Boss and Niko do a good job and the new Safeties do well, we lack the finishing touch. I mean those are alot of Ifs, but if they all turn out well, we lack just the finishing touch.

Our coaches aren't very good either.

[Retired_Member_001]

I don't think that's fair to call people crazy for thinking we could go 10-6. At this point it doesn't look probable from point of view but I also do see it as impossible.

Also a Denver loss at home against Buffalo I wouldn't predict that at this point because for the most part Denver still plays very well at home.

Alright, I'll be fair, 10-6 is possible. But 11-5 is a stretch and anything above is just not realistic. I've done something I don't usually do and made a prediction before training camps and pre-season. It's hard to have an idea of how things are going to go at this point in time.

My prediction could change MASSIVELY by Late August. My prediction now is ore of a calculated guess.

[Nomad]

Tned, it's not a bad thing to drink the kool-aid and we can't always look at things with the glass half-empty attitude. At least Shanahan focused on the needs of the team. As I said before, Jay will have a great year and this year will be a chemistry building year for the BRONCOS. The playoffs are a questionable but not impossible, but a winning record would be a positive step for our young team in the right direction. But my thing is I rather sweep the AFC West teams (not going to happen) but at least beat the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers at home.

[eessydo]

6-10

One caveat here though, I think at least 5 of those games are decided by less than 3 points.

The departure of Elam, and our still deficient Defense costs us one more season under 500.

Things are turning around though as it appears denver is now looking to build through the draft and not through retread veterans with no gas in the tank.

[turftoad]

Tned, it's not a bad thing to drink the kool-aid and we can't always look at things with the glass half-empty attitude. At least Shanahan focused on the needs of the team. As I said before, Jay will have a great year and this year will be a chemistry building year for the BRONCOS. The playoffs are a questionable but not impossible, but a winning record would be a positive step for our young team in the right direction. But my thing is I rather sweep the AFC West teams (not going to happen) but at least beat the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers at home.

Agreed.

9-7 I think we have a good thing going here. We're still a little young and our guys need one more year of experience and molding.
We're still a couple of players away.

We'll be on the verge of the playoffs (wild card). If we make them, we won't go far but making them is not out of the question.

[Mike]

Week 1 — At Oak. LOSS
Week 2 — San Diego. LOSS
Week 3 — New Orleans LOSS
Week 4 — at KC LOSS
Week 5 — Tampa Bay WIN
Week 6 — Jacksonville LOSS
Week 7 — at New England LOSS
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami WIN
Week 10 — at Cleveland LOSS
Week 11 — at Atlanta WIN
Week 12 — Oakland WIN
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets WIN
Week 14 — Kansas City WIN
Week 15 — at Carolina WIN
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills WIN
Week 17 — at San Diego LOSS

I will go with 8-8, but think it could be worse depending on injuries.

[Tned]

Tned, it's not a bad thing to drink the kool-aid and we can't always look at things with the glass half-empty attitude. At least Shanahan focused on the needs of the team. As I said before, Jay will have a great year and this year will be a chemistry building year for the BRONCOS. The playoffs are a questionable but not impossible, but a winning record would be a positive step for our young team in the right direction. But my thing is I rather sweep the AFC West teams (not going to happen) but at least beat the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers at home.

If Marshall's injury is serious and he doesn't return as the same receiver, then I think all bets are off. If marshall is healthy and all those tendons and stuff heal right, I think we are going to find that last year was more of anomoly than start of a down phase.

I know not many people feel the same way, but I think heimerdinger and Bates had a MUCH greater impact on how badly we played than the players on the field.

I am hoping that one of the reasons we didn't bring in an OC is that Shanahan is going to be more hands on, like he was in Kubiak's early years. On Defense, Slowik is an agressive man coverage type guy, which should mean our front 7 or 8 are let loose with regularity, which hopefully (have to see where the young guys are at) results in more QB pressure and as a result more INTs.

Jay is in his third year and getting better, and if Shanny is more hands on and starts getting back to creative formations and movement, disguise and misdirection, which was a halmark of the Broncos, I think a lot of people will be surprised.

Yes, I might just be over-optomistic, but I really think a lot of fans are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Obviously, all of this goes out the window if we have a rash of injuries like we had last year.

[BroncoBJ]

For the record this is the 1st season that I did not pick the Broncos to go 16-0. :lol:
I'm starting to get more realistic in my old age. :elefant:

[BroncoJoe]

Injuries and youth were the problems last year. Obviously Bates and Hermindinger sucked ass too, but we lost a lot of talent throughout the year as well.

[topscribe]

Week 1 — At Oak. Win
Week 2 — San Diego. Loss
Week 3 — New Orleans Win
Week 4 — at KC Win
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Win
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win
Week 7 — at New England Loss
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at Cleveland Win
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win
Week 12 — Oakland Win
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Loss
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Loss
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

Well, guess I see them at 11-5, even though I locked into 10-6 in the poll.
But I suspect one of the first five or six will be a should-have-won-it game
because of the gelling process. I don't think it will be Oakland, though,
because they will have the same gelling problems.

-----

[Tned]

Injuries and youth were the problems last year. Obviously Bates and Hermindinger sucked ass too, but we lost a lot of talent throughout the year as well.

Injuries hurt us last year, Heimerdinger dismantled our offense over a two year period. There is a reason there was a mutual parting of the ways and Heimerdinger took a downward move from assistant head coach to offensive coordinator. The NFL doesn't allow moves like that while under contract, and it is unlikely the Broncos only signed him to a two year contract. Therefore, Shanahan let go the guy he touted as the person that was going to turn the offense around.

Instead, Heimerdinger put in offensive schemes for two years that didn't suit the offensive line, resulting in horrible production even before the injuries occurred. When Jake was still under center the argument was that now that heimerdinger was opening up the playbook, Jake wasn't smart enough. When Jay took over, it was blamed on injuries and rookie mistakes. Fast forward to year two and it's still Jay's learning, then we get to blame it on injuries.

The truth is that Heimerdinger attempted to run an offensive scheme that would work just fine if you had a line averaging 315lb or so, with 330lb tackles, but it was not the offense that Shanahan/Kubiak successfully ran with the lightest line in the league.

Bates was equally inflexible. He attempted to implement his scheme, regardless of the personell. They are both gone, because they apparently were one trick ponies, not able to adapt to the personell in front of them. Shanahan fully admitted that he screwed the pooch with Bates and should have prevented the defensive scheme changes and stuck with the defensive approach that had kept them in that 5-10 ranking with their small/fast defense they had drafted for years.

So, while it is very possible we will have a third down year, and I know that I am in the minority, if not fully standing on my own, but I feel strongly that those two 'former' assistant head coaches are FAR more to blame for the debacle of the last two years than the players, and that I expect the Broncos to be closer to 2005 form than 2006 or 2007.

[Nature Boy]

11-5, maybe 10-6 but no lower. We might not beat the Chargers twice to win the AFC west but we'll make the playoffs as a wildcard.

Have some optimism people.

[TXBRONC]

Injuries hurt us last year, Heimerdinger dismantled our offense over a two year period. There is a reason there was a mutual parting of the ways and Heimerdinger took a downward move from assistant head coach to offensive coordinator. The NFL doesn't allow moves like that while under contract, and it is unlikely the Broncos only signed him to a two year contract. Therefore, Shanahan let go the guy he touted as the person that was going to turn the offense around.

Instead, Heimerdinger put in offensive schemes for two years that didn't suit the offensive line, resulting in horrible production even before the injuries occurred. When Jake was still under center the argument was that now that heimerdinger was opening up the playbook, Jake wasn't smart enough. When Jay took over, it was blamed on injuries and rookie mistakes. Fast forward to year two and it's still Jay's learning, then we get to blame it on injuries.

The truth is that Heimerdinger attempted to run an offensive scheme that would work just fine if you had a line averaging 315lb or so, with 330lb tackles, but it was not the offense that Shanahan/Kubiak successfully ran with the lightest line in the league.

Bates was equally inflexible. He attempted to implement his scheme, regardless of the personell. They are both gone, because they apparently were one trick ponies, not able to adapt to the personell in front of them. Shanahan fully admitted that he screwed the pooch with Bates and should have prevented the defensive scheme changes and stuck with the defensive approach that had kept them in that 5-10 ranking with their small/fast defense they had drafted for years.

So, while it is very possible we will have a third down year, and I know that I am in the minority, if not fully standing on my own, but I feel strongly that those two 'former' assistant head coaches are FAR more to blame for the debacle of the last two years than the players, and that I expect the Broncos to be closer to 2005 form than 2006 or 2007.

I hope your're right but we have a lot of inexperienced and relatively inexperienced players on this team.

[G_Money]

I want to blame Dinger for the offense. It was a TOTALLY different offense than the one Kubes ran while he was here, and didn't take anywhere near as much advantage of our specific personnel as he would have, and it was much more like some of Dinger's other offenses.

But I also saw Shanny with the clipboard calling lots of plays.

So was the genius of our offense in Shanahan, or in Kubiak?

When Kubiak left, he was replaced by Dinger in title, but was Shanahan calling the plays still (and the word is that Dinger was chafing from taking the blame but not having the control of the O)?

This year should be a good litmus test. If we get back to innovation, it was Dinger.

If we stay stale, it's Shanny and/or the loss of Kubes.

We'll have a similarly fun experiment on defense: do our DL players suck, or was it scheme? Can we pressure with Slowik, or will our coordination and scheme stay horrible?

At least it won't be boring...

~G

[Tned]

I hope your're right but we have a lot of inexperienced and relatively inexperienced players on this team.

No doubt about it.

The biggest challenge is going to be having the third DC in three years, and on the offense likely scrapping most of what Heimerdinger put in.

Think back three, four, five years ago. The offense was all about disguise and misdirection. Lineup with one RB and two TE and motion a TE to FB. Lineup with two RBs and motion a RB to TE. Lineup with two WR, one TE over the tackle, motion him wde and run up the middle.

Mixup up runs and quarterback bootleg/rollouts so that they got the defense flowing in one direction, and brought the play back the other direction.

During the time we did that successfully, we replaced a lot of players, but continued to have success. No, not superbowl success, because the Colts kept anhilating our defense, and then the AFCCG game, but consistant success on offense. It was because as Bill Parcells said before the Thanksgiving game during the AFCCG year, "the Broncos only run about 5 plays, but they run them very well and out of a bunch of different formations, so you never really know which one they are going to run". Now, I wrote that as a quote, but that is paraphrasing.

Look on offense. We have a 3rd year QB. If Marshall is healthy, a Third year #1 WR, a 3rd year pass catching TE, a veteran #2/slot receiver in his second year in Denver, another TE in his second year, and all of our linemen except Clady are in at least their second year in Denver, most more than 2 years. So, other than Clady and the FA WR's, our offense will have played together 1-2 years. Now, offset that by the fact Shanny will need to throw out much of Dinger's playbook along with Dinger himself and that offsets it, but while we are young on offense, it isn't like we are starting a bunch of rookies this year. It isn't like we have a rookie QB. He is a third year QB.

On Defense you have Bly and Bailey, who are veterans. Lynch (will he be a full time starter?) and somebody other than a rookie (not sure who is going to win the free safety job).

At LB you have DJ and Boss, both experienced, while Boss is new to Denver, and a big questionmark at MLB.

On the line, you will have a rotation of DE's that will be 2nd year, 3rd year and veteran ends, and at tackle you will likely have a rotation of Robertson (veteran, new to team), Thomas (2nd year), Ekuban and maybe the new guy I am drawing a blank on that we just drafted.

So, yes, the team is young, but it is a mixture of veterans with 2nd/3rd year players, with likely only 1 rookie starting in Clady.

As I said, the big challenge will be can Slowik implement a 'new' defensive scheme that can both be adapted to quickly by all players and effective, and does Shanahan dig back into the offense and get back to what gained him the mastermind label (and contrary to what some believe, it wasn't just a QB named John), or will he just let Dennison meander along and find his own way.

[Tned]

I want to blame Dinger for the offense. It was a TOTALLY different offense than the one Kubes ran while he was here, and didn't take anywhere near as much advantage of our specific personnel as he would have, and it was much more like some of Dinger's other offenses.

But I also saw Shanny with the clipboard calling lots of plays.

So was the genius of our offense in Shanahan, or in Kubiak?



I think that is the million dollar question. I know about 3 years ago I was lambasted on Mania for suggesting that Kubiak was calling the plays and told that even though Shanny said Kubiak called the plays, it was BS and him just trying to make his 'friend' look better.

Then, after Kubiak left and the offense suffered, then about 90% of those people that lambasted me started talking about how Kubiak was the genius.

Personally, FWIW, I think it 'was' Shanahan's offense and I know he called the plays in the early years with Elway and company. However, in the later years, he claimed to be much more handsoff and management orientated and might drop into an offensive or defensive meeting, but otherwise let the OC/DC's do the work.

Assuming that is correct, then towards the end, Kubiak was running and modifiying Shanny's offense and based on what I have seen in Houston, did a good job of mastering it.

Don't get me wrong, when I blame Dinger, I blame Shanny as much. Shanahan brought him in to open up the offense, specifically the passing game. The problem is, Shanahan didn't provide him with a new line to make it work. If that was their plan, they should have done it in stages. Kept the old playbook, while adding some new tricks and then via FA or draft, gotten a line capable of handling straight drop back passing and spread formations without risking the QBs life on every play.

I am making an assumption, and I know it is a large one, that in the same way that Shanny took responsibility for allowing a defensive scheme to be put in that didn't support the players, he did the same thing on offense. The differnce being, Dinger was his college roommate and friend/co-worker previously on the Broncos and he wasn't quite so willing to throw him under the bus, and possibly even more willing to try his ideas.

It is very possible, even likely, that since Shanny brought him in to open up the passing game, Shanny himself may have miscalculated how overmatched his OL would be with the scheme changes (even before injuries and over a two year period).

What I am hoping is that:

1. It was Shanahan's creative mind that came up with the playbook they ran so successfully for 12 or so years, and not Kubiaks.

2. In 2008 he basically takes over the OC job and mentors Dennison the way he did Kubiak in '95 or '96 or whenever it was.

[HolyDiver]

I don't see it, not against the Raiders not with Jarmarcus Russell(who I hear currently weighs 300lbs). Talk about a team without their pieces together.

McFadden will be a huge bust, second coming of Lawrence Phillips. You heard it here 1st.

I'm not going to say that he'll be a bust just yet.........But I highly doubt he'll be lining up at QB and get a free 7 yards a carry...............His college stats are inflated for reasons just like that................He's an all or nothing type of back that kills Defenses in the 4th quarter.................I'm talking about his OWN Defense..............He is NOT the back that will grind out 4 and 5 yard runs all day..........With McFadden, it's either 60 yards and a TD or 3 and out. Either way, the Raiders Defense will ot have enough time to catch their breath.

[dogfish]

I'm not going to say that he'll be a bust just yet.........But I highly doubt he'll be lining up at QB and get a free 7 yards a carry...............His college stats are inflated for reasons just like that................He's an all or nothing type of back that kills Defenses in the 4th quarter.................I'm talking about his OWN Defense..............He is NOT the back that will grind out 4 and 5 yard runs all day..........With McFadden, it's either 60 yards and a TD or 3 and out. Either way, the Raiders Defense will ot have enough time to catch their breath.

think he can hit double-digit fumbles if he plays the whole year?

[TXBRONC]

No doubt about it.

The biggest challenge is going to be having the third DC in three years, and on the offense likely scrapping most of what Heimerdinger put in.

Think back three, four, five years ago. The offense was all about disguise and misdirection. Lineup with one RB and two TE and motion a TE to FB. Lineup with two RBs and motion a RB to TE. Lineup with two WR, one TE over the tackle, motion him wde and run up the middle.

Mixup up runs and quarterback bootleg/rollouts so that they got the defense flowing in one direction, and brought the play back the other direction.

During the time we did that successfully, we replaced a lot of players, but continued to have success. No, not superbowl success, because the Colts kept anhilating our defense, and then the AFCCG game, but consistant success on offense. It was because as Bill Parcells said before the Thanksgiving game during the AFCCG year, "the Broncos only run about 5 plays, but they run them very well and out of a bunch of different formations, so you never really know which one they are going to run". Now, I wrote that as a quote, but that is paraphrasing.

Look on offense. We have a 3rd year QB. If Marshall is healthy, a Third year #1 WR, a 3rd year pass catching TE, a veteran #2/slot receiver in his second year in Denver, another TE in his second year, and all of our linemen except Clady are in at least their second year in Denver, most more than 2 years. So, other than Clady and the FA WR's, our offense will have played together 1-2 years. Now, offset that by the fact Shanny will need to throw out much of Dinger's playbook along with Dinger himself and that offsets it, but while we are young on offense, it isn't like we are starting a bunch of rookies this year. It isn't like we have a rookie QB. He is a third year QB.

On Defense you have Bly and Bailey, who are veterans. Lynch (will he be a full time starter?) and somebody other than a rookie (not sure who is going to win the free safety job).

At LB you have DJ and Boss, both experienced, while Boss is new to Denver, and a big questionmark at MLB.

On the line, you will have a rotation of DE's that will be 2nd year, 3rd year and veteran ends, and at tackle you will likely have a rotation of Robertson (veteran, new to team), Thomas (2nd year), Ekuban and maybe the new guy I am drawing a blank on that we just drafted.

So, yes, the team is young, but it is a mixture of veterans with 2nd/3rd year players, with likely only 1 rookie starting in Clady.

As I said, the big challenge will be can Slowik implement a 'new' defensive scheme that can both be adapted to quickly by all players and effective, and does Shanahan dig back into the offense and get back to what gained him the mastermind label (and contrary to what some believe, it wasn't just a QB named John), or will he just let Dennison meander along and find his own way.

If you're right about Shanahan taking a hands off approach as the year's have gone by then consider how poorly the offense played this past season I don't see how he will just let Dennison meander along as you put it.

Also Slowik has caught a lot of criticism because he didn't pan out as DC in Green Bay but I'm not uncomfortable with being our DC. I think Shanahan gets him kind of players he needs to make defense work I think we'll be ok.

[dogfish]

i'm thinking somewhere between 6-10 and 8-8, so split the difference and call it 7-9 again. . .


i just don't see where the improvement has come from compared to last season's roster, and our new coordinators aren't exactly proven winners. . . if this team is going to be significantly better, i think the improvement will have to come from within-- specifically, i'm looking at cutler and the DLs from last year's draft. . .

[Tned]

If you're right about Shanahan taking a hands off approach as the year's have gone by then consider how poorly the offense played this past season I don't see how he will just let Dennison meander along as you put it.

Also Slowik has caught a lot of criticism because he didn't pan out as DC in Green Bay but I'm not uncomfortable with being our DC. I think Shanahan gets him kind of players he needs to make defense work I think we'll be ok.

If I was Bowlen, I would have had a conversation with Shanahan that went something like:

"Mike, I think you have done a great job running this team. We have won two SB's. You brought Gary [Kubiak] along great, and he is now a head coach. Lately, you might have been so focused on managing, that you stopped coaching, which was ok with Gary here, but now it's time to bring Rick [Dennison] along the way you did Gary. Your an offensive genius, and right now we need an offensive genius to get us back to where we want to be."

Or, something like that.

[TXBRONC]

If I was Bowlen, I would have had a conversation with Shanahan that went something like:

"Mike, I think you have done a great job running this team. We have won two SB's. You brought Gary [Kubiak] along great, and he is now a head coach. Lately, you might have been so focused on managing, that you stopped coaching, which was ok with Gary here, but now it's time to bring Rick [Dennison] along the way you did Gary. Your an offensive genius, and right now we need an offensive genius to get us back to where we want to be."

Or, something like that.

I suppose it's possible that was part of the conversation when Sundquist was let go.

[Nick]

Week 1 — At Oak. Win
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Win
Week 4 — at KC Loss
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Loss
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win
Week 7 — at New England Win
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at Cleveland Loss
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win
Week 12 — Oakland Win
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Loss
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

[TXBRONC]

Week 1 — At Oak. Win
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Win
Week 4 — at KC Loss
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Loss
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win
Week 7 — at New England Win
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at Cleveland Loss
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win
Week 12 — Oakland Win
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Loss
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

You really think we will lose ot Tampa in our own house?

[Nature Boy]

I'm not going to say that he'll be a bust just yet.........But I highly doubt he'll be lining up at QB and get a free 7 yards a carry...............His college stats are inflated for reasons just like that................He's an all or nothing type of back that kills Defenses in the 4th quarter.................I'm talking about his OWN Defense..............He is NOT the back that will grind out 4 and 5 yard runs all day..........With McFadden, it's either 60 yards and a TD or 3 and out. Either way, the Raiders Defense will ot have enough time to catch their breath.


I'm saying it right now. McFadden is gonna be a bust and so will JaMarcus Russell.

McFadden was the benefit of a great O-Line at Arkansas. Look what Felix Jones did as his back up. Jones played just as well, if not better than McFadden and he was the back up. McFadden is super fast, but does not have the power to be an NFL running back. Have you guys seen his chicken legs?

JaMarcus Russell, he had a great sugar bowl against a lousy Notre Dame defense that sprung him into the #1 pick. People fell in love with his size and strong arm but people failed to look into the 2 lost LSU had that year in 2006.
JaMarcus played like crap against #4 ranked Auburn, losing 7-3 and again against #5 ranked Florida, losing 23-10.

Reports everywhere say JaMarcus Russell has ballooned to 300+lbs when his playing weight is to be 260lb. $30 mil in guarantees buy a lot of spicy Louisiana ribs.

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/hugeman.jpg

JaMarcus?

[omac]

How many wins? That's a tough question. Bates really screwed up our rush defense last season, and were trying to build it back up. With a better rush defense, I think we could've won 2 or 3 more games, even with the injuries. /This season, we're gonna expect guys who've never played here to just pick up our defense and excell at it. I'm thinking, we lose most of our early games, since they are against the better teams, but win most of our later games, since by then, the defense is jelling (I hope).

10-6

[Slick]

8-8.

NUB, Sneakers and War. :lol: I love the optimism.

I hate to be Captain Bringdown, but I just don't see it. We'll be better, and I think we'll actually score a touchdown against San Diego, but I still feel like we're a few players away from the playoffs and the division title.

Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong.

[Lonestar]

I will make a better prediction as we get past mini camps and into training camp but right now I do not see a huge difference from last year.. Lets see who the June 1 cuts are..



But 6-10 looks pretty close as we speak.

[Tned]

I'm saying it right now. McFadden is gonna be a bust and so will JaMarcus Russell.


So, just so I have this straight (and for the forum archives), you think Henry is one of the premier backs in the league and that McFadden will be bust???

You can just quote this and say yes, so I can quote it down the road.

[broncosfanscott]

Even after the draft it is still early to make a solid prediction. However for the poll I chose 10-6 because I can see us making some improvement. At least I hope we do.



I'm saying it right now. McFadden is gonna be a bust and so will JaMarcus Russell.


We don't know what will happen down the road, however if one of them is a bust then the other one is doomed.

[Nature Boy]

So, just so I have this straight (and for the forum archives), you think Henry is one of the premier backs in the league and that McFadden will be bust???

You can just quote this and say yes, so I can quote it down the road.

Yes, I'll bet you 10,000 freak bucks that Travis Henry will have a better season in 2008 than McFadden. Bank it. It's doesn't take a genius to see this, but heck, maybe it does.

[honz]

So, who's totally not looking forward to going up against Jonathan Stewart next year in Week 15? I know I'm not.

[dogfish]

So, who's totally not looking forward to going up against Jonathan Stewart next year in Week 15? I know I'm not.

if our run efense isn't significantly better than it was last year, kolby smith and michael bush are scary enough. . .


:fear:

[honz]

if our run efense isn't significantly better than it was last year, kolby smith and michael bush are scary enough. . .


:fear:
:lol: True enough. I think our D will be improved from last year, though.

At least Stewart isn't in our division, though. Stewart > McFadden.

[dogfish]

:lol: True enough. I think our D will be improved from last year, though.

At least Stewart isn't in our division, though. Stewart > McFadden.

good point. . .

[Lonestar]

I want to blame Dinger for the offense. It was a TOTALLY different offense than the one Kubes ran while he was here, and didn't take anywhere near as much advantage of our specific personnel as he would have, and it was much more like some of Dinger's other offenses.

But I also saw Shanny with the clipboard calling lots of plays.

So was the genius of our offense in Shanahan, or in Kubiak?

When Kubiak left, he was replaced by Dinger in title, but was Shanahan calling the plays still (and the word is that Dinger was chafing from taking the blame but not having the control of the O)?

This year should be a good litmus test. If we get back to innovation, it was Dinger.

If we stay stale, it's Shanny and/or the loss of Kubes.

We'll have a similarly fun experiment on defense: do our DL players suck, or was it scheme? Can we pressure with Slowik, or will our coordination and scheme stay horrible?

At least it won't be boring...

~G


I think you spot on with this post..

mikey has a firm grasp on every part of this team. when bates scheme went into the toilet last year it was mikeys that got implemented who better to design a defense but a mastermind on offense?

It was mikey's play book that Dinger tried to implement, mikey wanted to showcase his big armed QB not realizing that our OLINE was in such disarray after playing ZBS for almost a decade with less than Zimmerman type players from SB days.

Let me add getting past 8-8 with this many new faces minus Elam who saved our ass 4 times last year is being much more than a glass half full type of guy..


Anyone that thinks mikey is not firmly in charge here and does not make the decisions well needs some counseling..

[Nomad]

If McFadden can get past the first hit and open field then he'll do damage, hopefully this year the LBs and DBs remember how to make contact, wrap up(grab cloth), and bring to the ground, but he doesn't have a very good line to work behind.

9-7 the best record for the BRONCOS and 6-10 the worst. I have to come into the season with and open mind but can change during the season, so I'd prefer to say we'll have a winning record at the end of the year.:D

[Tned]

Yes, I'll bet you 10,000 freak bucks that Travis Henry will have a better season in 2008 than McFadden. Bank it. It's doesn't take a genius to see this, but heck, maybe it does.

Well, your man-crush on Henry aside, comparing the year Henry will have to McFadden's rookie year isn't very fair. They might not even give McFadden the starting job right away, but work him him. The Raiders are coming off multiple down years and are in turmoil.

The Broncos, even with their two bad seasons have still been running the ball well, no matter who is behind center.

You have now 'muddied' the waters. I think the term you used was 'bust' in the NFL.

[omac]

I think you spot on with this post..

mikey has a firm grasp on every part of this team. when bates scheme went into the toilet last year it was mikeys that got implemented who better to design a defense but a mastermind on offense?

Hi Jrwiz. Be fair; Bates defense was absolutely horrendous against the run. Some changes had to be made, and though our run defense was still pretty bad, there were a few games where it performed better than the scheme Bates tried to implement.

And Shanny didn't have to design the defense much; they just used a similar defense to what they were using before the arival of Bates. Then what happened? Next game against Pittsburgh, our defenders had plays where they were penetrating Pitt's OL and tackling their RBs for losses. Yeah, there was a bit of an improvement, but the damage Bates did was big.


It was mikey's play book that Dinger tried to implement, mikey wanted to showcase his big armed QB not realizing that our OLINE was in such disarray after playing ZBS for almost a decade with less than Zimmerman type players from SB days.

A big factor was the key injuries to the OL; when you lose 2 of your veteran starters, and your usually solid LT is underperforming since coming back from injury, that is a major factor. They didn't have much experience starting with each other. Let's see how they play this season.


Let me add getting past 8-8 with this many new faces minus Elam who saved our ass 4 times last year is being much more than a glass half full type of guy..

Saved our ass? That sounds like Elam got the Broncos to field goal range all by his lonesome, and never once missed a kick. :D It wasn't only because of Elam that we won those games; he contributed, as did Cutler, Javon, the Brandons, etc. And some of the games we lost, we had chances of winning too; they weren't all blowouts caused by our inability to stop the run (thanks again Mr. Bates).

Much more important than Elam's clutch kicking, or even the performance of our offense, will be the performance of our defense. If we're able to recover from the damage done by Bates last season, then we'll have a pretty good chance against a lot of teams; if not, having an all-pro kicker means nothing if a decent running team can easily dominate the Broncos.


Anyone that thinks mikey is not firmly in charge here and does not make the decisions well needs some counseling..

Definitely, Shanny is in charge, always has been, and as long as he is, there will be no excuses for losing, like some teams have in the guise of a continuous rebuilding. :beer:

[Colorado4Life]

Week one, prime time game, we don't have all our pieces together and we lose a close one that gets the message boards up in arms about how bad the season will be.

Week 12, McFadden rushes for 250+ game over

I love you Tned, but we'll sweep the Faiders again... ;) I was concerned at first but the dancing elefants told me that there is no way we'll lose to Chokeland... Dancing elefants can never be wrong. :elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant:

[Tned]

Definitely, Shanny is in charge, always has been, and as long as he is, there will be no excuses for losing, like some teams have in the guise of a continuous rebuilding. :beer:

Shanahan didn't make excuses. Here is his post season press conference. He said it was on his shoulders.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=349&videoID=2381&type=broncosTV&year=2008&month=1

[Nature Boy]

Well, your man-crush on Henry aside, comparing the year Henry will have to McFadden's rookie year isn't very fair. They might not even give McFadden the starting job right away, but work him him. The Raiders are coming off multiple down years and are in turmoil.

The Broncos, even with their two bad seasons have still been running the ball well, no matter who is behind center.

You have now 'muddied' the waters. I think the term you used was 'bust' in the NFL.

I don't know what you are talking about. If you are a RB and you're the 4th guy picked in the draft. You better win the starting job and you better play better than you're rival's best back whom everyone is saying "sucks". Wern't you the one who brought up the Travis Henry and Mcfadden comparison?

RBs are not like Quarterbacks or OTs who will get exponentially better with experience. You can either run or you can when given the chance. Look at Adrian Peterson, 7th picked and he's the brightest young in the league. Same goes with Marshawn Lynch #12.

I will keep a close eye on Johnathan Stewart. I personally think Stewart is nowhere near the caliber of Peterson and Lynch, but we'll see.

[Lonestar]

Hi Jrwiz. Be fair; Bates defense was absolutely horrendous against the run. Some changes had to be made, and though our run defense was still pretty bad, there were a few games where it performed better than the scheme Bates tried to implement.

And Shanny didn't have to design the defense much; they just used a similar defense to what they were using before the arival of Bates. Then what happened? Next game against Pittsburgh, our defenders had plays where they were penetrating Pitt's OL and tackling their RBs for losses. Yeah, there was a bit of an improvement, but the damage Bates did was big.

A big factor was the key injuries to the OL; when you lose 2 of your veteran starters, and your usually solid LT is underperforming since coming back from injury, that is a major factor. They didn't have much experience starting with each other. Let's see how they play this season.

Saved our ass? That sounds like Elam got the Broncos to field goal range all by his lonesome, and never once missed a kick. :D It wasn't only because of Elam that we won those games; he contributed, as did Cutler, Javon, the Brandons, etc. And some of the games we lost, we had chances of winning too; they weren't all blowouts caused by our inability to stop the run (thanks again Mr. Bates).

Much more important than Elam's clutch kicking, or even the performance of our offense, will be the performance of our defense. If we're able to recover from the damage done by Bates last season, then we'll have a pretty good chance against a lot of teams; if not, having an all-pro kicker means nothing if a decent running team can easily dominate the Broncos.

Definitely, Shanny is in charge, always has been, and as long as he is, there will be no excuses for losing, like some teams have in the guise of a continuous rebuilding. :beer:


Yes the OLINE had to introduced themselves to each other each game no question bout that..

But that is not gonna be fixed with at least two maybe three newbies again this year one of them most likely a raw rookie.. another a rookie in the sense that he did not play at all last year..

I did not look to see that being a strong point till mid year at best.. remember those great OLINES have been playing together for year if not in some cases a decade or more...

Without Elam last year there is not doubt in my mind we would have blown at least 2 of those four last minute wins.. Maybe even more..

Yes the offense got us into FG range and that is commendable but this year we will not have Elam to bail us out each and every week..

Bates has been a proven DC until last year and IMO was asked to preform miracles without the players he needed to make it work..

Should he have modified his defense probably but I remember reading somewhere that many of the players had not bought into the system and it was hinted that slowik had undermined him.. Whether that is true or not I have no idea, but IMO it almost makes sense they way they played..

Few folks will admit it but this team sucked last year in more than just defense and OLINE.. IMO the truly only great players last year were Marshall, Shockley had some key catches early and Jay. The rest looked like they were going through the motions..

Maybe that was all because of the LOS issues we had. But this was a really bad team and has a LOOOONG way to go before they can stand toe to toe with SAN even with their lousy coach..

After watching last years games last week or so I deleted them all from my Tivo and put the season behind me as a bad dream...

[atwater27]

Right now I don't think our rookies will impact our team positively at all this season.
I just think Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and our offense in general will improve greatly with experience and cohesiveness. Our defense will still show glaring holes, which will probably prevent us from making any noise in the playoffs, if we get there.

[EastCoastBronco]

If we can get the goal line offense working I think Warhorse's prediction will be bang on...
How many times did we trade 7's for 3's last year? If we can fix that # by 50% we will win a lot of ballgames.

[Timmy!]

10-6, Wildcard. It's all about getting into the playoffs. From there, who knows. Ask the Giants and Steelers.

[topscribe]

10-6, Wildcard. It's all about getting into the playoffs. From there, who knows. Ask the Giants and Steelers.

And the Broncos. 1997.

-----

[omac]

Yes the OLINE had to introduced themselves to each other each game no question bout that..

But that is not gonna be fixed with at least two maybe three newbies again this year one of them most likely a raw rookie.. another a rookie in the sense that he did not play at all last year..

I did not look to see that being a strong point till mid year at best.. remember those great OLINES have been playing together for year if not in some cases a decade or more...

Without Elam last year there is not doubt in my mind we would have blown at least 2 of those four last minute wins.. Maybe even more..

Yes the offense got us into FG range and that is commendable but this year we will not have Elam to bail us out each and every week..

Bates has been a proven DC until last year and IMO was asked to preform miracles without the players he needed to make it work..

Should he have modified his defense probably but I remember reading somewhere that many of the players had not bought into the system and it was hinted that slowik had undermined him.. Whether that is true or not I have no idea, but IMO it almost makes sense they way they played..

Few folks will admit it but this team sucked last year in more than just defense and OLINE.. IMO the truly only great players last year were Marshall, Shockley had some key catches early and Jay. The rest looked like they were going through the motions..

Maybe that was all because of the LOS issues we had. But this was a really bad team and has a LOOOONG way to go before they can stand toe to toe with SAN even with their lousy coach..

After watching last years games last week or so I deleted them all from my Tivo and put the season behind me as a bad dream...

After last season, I agree with you that the OL will need time to jell, and they might not be good immediately.

On the defense, that's really on Bates. He took the job, knowing the players we had, and we even got players to try to fit his scheme, and released players who didn't. He was given every opportunity to succeed, but he flopped. On players undermining him, maybe they were, who knows, but as a coach, it's part of your job to earn the players' confidence, trust, and respect.

I doubt that Bronco players intentionally underperform; they have a lot of pride built up from this organization. I think what was more likely was that they weren't very confident or comfortable with the scheme Bates had, so they were probably thinking too much, and not concentrating on the basic aspects, like tackling, which was horrendous.

On the side of the defense, though, it was only last season when we were terrible against the run. Before that, we were pretty good, and if I'm not mistaken, I think we were ranked about 2nd against the run in '05.

With respect to our OL, depite it's makeshift nature due to injuries, plus injuries to our #1 and sometimes #2 backs, we still were pretty decent running the ball. Despite the poor protection, Jay still got 3000+ yards and 20 TDs.

I don't think we're as far off as you think. The damage to the defense was big, but we'll be going back to the scheme our players are more comfortable with, so I don't expect our rush defense to be this bad. I'm hoping we're at least top 18 against the run. Then we'll have a good chance in games.

On Elam .... yes, clutch kickers are very rare. But just last season, Dallas struck gold with the rookie Nick Folk. We could get lucky ... or we could just make sure that we win all our games by at least 14 points. :D

[Lonestar]

If we can get the goal line offense working I think Warhorse's prediction will be bang on...
How many times did we trade 7's for 3's last year? If we can fix that # by 50% we will win a lot of ballgames.


but those times when we can't bang it in we no longer have Elam to save our ass. We most likely not even get the 3..

[Lonestar]

After last season, I agree with you that the OL will need time to jell, and they might not be good immediately.

On the defense, that's really on Bates. He took the job, knowing the players we had, and we even got players to try to fit his scheme, and released players who didn't. He was given every opportunity to succeed, but he flopped. On players undermining him, maybe they were, who knows, but as a coach, it's part of your job to earn the players' confidence, trust, and respect.

I doubt that Bronco players intentionally underperform; they have a lot of pride built up from this organization. I think what was more likely was that they weren't very confident or comfortable with the scheme Bates had, so they were probably thinking too much, and not concentrating on the basic aspects, like tackling, which was horrendous.

On the side of the defense, though, it was only last season when we were terrible against the run. Before that, we were pretty good, and if I'm not mistaken, I think we were ranked about 2nd against the run in '05.

With respect to our OL, depite it's makeshift nature due to injuries, plus injuries to our #1 and sometimes #2 backs, we still were pretty decent running the ball. Despite the poor protection, Jay still got 3000+ yards and 20 TDs.

I don't think we're as far off as you think. The damage to the defense was big, but we'll be going back to the scheme our players are more comfortable with, so I don't expect our rush defense to be this bad. I'm hoping we're at least top 18 against the run. Then we'll have a good chance in games.

On Elam .... yes, clutch kickers are very rare. But just last season, Dallas struck gold with the rookie Nick Folk. We could get lucky ... or we could just make sure that we win all our games by at least 14 points. :D

Perhaps but we rarely have been good against BOTH run and Pass so being great against the run that year we were unable to stop the pass therefore NO ONE needed to run on us..

I think we will be improved unless the grim reaper strike again, but then most of the teams we are going to play also improved themselves.. that beginning of the year is going to be brutal perhaps only winning one of the games before the bye.

Offense almost always takes longer to jell than the defenses do but with all the changes we have this year that may not be true either..

Right now we have 3 starters back from last year on defense in their position they started at the end of the year.. Champ, Bly and John. And remember they will/may be playing a NEW system again for the second year in a row..

You do mean win them by 12 2x6=12 as we do not even know of someone can even convert a PAT..

[honz]

but those times when we can't bang it in we no longer have Elam to save our ass. We most likely not even get the 3..
It's not like Elam is the only capable kicker in the NFL. If we are in the red-zone, pretty much any kicker is gonna give us 3 points. It's Elam's long range accuracy that we will miss.

[Lonestar]

It's not like Elam is the only capable kicker in the NFL. If we are in the red-zone, pretty much any kicker is gonna give us 3 points. It's Elam's long range accuracy that we will miss.


by long range you mean inside the 40 perhaps but outside that he was pretty average and in most cases the past few years we pooch kicked it trying to pin them back inside there 20.

Lets just say I am not going to count on automatic kicks inside the 40 in most cases it will be 50% or less. Unless we hit a home run with one of the newbies..

[honz]

Long range to me is over 35 yards or so, and Elam was definitely above average on those longish kicks...so yeah, we will most likely miss him when we fail to get inside the 20, but I'd say most NFL kickers are pretty automatic on kicks 35 yards and in.

Heck, we may even be able to steal some points off of 50 yard FG's since Elam didn't have the leg to kick those anymore. I love Elam, but I just don't think that we will miss him as much as many seem to think we will.

[slim]

10-6 sounds about right.

[Lonestar]

Long range to me is over 35 yards or so, and Elam was definitely above average on those longish kicks...so yeah, we will most likely miss him when we fail to get inside the 20, but I'd say most NFL kickers are pretty automatic on kicks 35 yards and in.

Heck, we may even be able to steal some points off of 50 yard FG's since Elam didn't have the leg to kick those anymore. I love Elam, but I just don't think that we will miss him as much as many seem to think we will.

I think there will be very few longish FG attempted for a long time, while with game remotely on the line.. Mikey will play it safe and punt it..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

9-7

We'll lose to Jax and Cleveland, but win 3 of 4 from both the NFC South and AFC East opponents. We'll sweep KC, get swept by SD and split w/ Oakland.


I am very excited about the DLine now. Powell sounds like a run stopping stud and seems to fill out a nice rotation w/ Thomas and Robertson. Hoping the DEs are healthy, cuz we have a stable. The youth is exciting and Crowder's size offers flexibility on 3rd downs.

The LBs will be improved. Noone know Niko, but the Seahawks fans loved him and he was the 4th LB on one of the best LB corps in the league. Boss is an upgrade from Gold and DJ moving to his righful place also improves what he can bring.

Let's be honest, the Safeties can't get worse, but Abdullah is 1 year wiser and we added depth/competition w/ the 2 FAs and Barrett. If Barrett toughens up, we got a steal...and don't forget Woodyard. The CBs should have to cheat less due to the improved front 7.

The O will be fine. The line wasn't awful ALL year, just looked awful vs SD on national TV. That being said, we got healthier in the middle and added the rookie from BGU. I really like Holland. Plenty of options at OT as Kuper can float, Harris is healthier and Clady hopefully lives up to the hype. peasr is more than capable backup if someone goes down.

RBs will be fine. I can see the 09 draft as the year we get our stud. Hillis adds flexibility and a pass catching threat in the redzone.

Cutty is god.

Hope BMarsh is fine, cuz that's the deal breaker. IF he is, defenses will have a hell of a time keeping up w/ out litle guys zooming all over the place...Stokley, Jackson, Royal, Colbert.

Special Teams, as always, concern me.

[honz]

I think there will be very few longish FG attempted for a long time, while with game remotely on the line.. Mikey will play it safe and punt it..
Eh, maybe so. I guess it will be easier to judge once we actually know who the kicker is going to be and once we see him in action a little bit, eh? Hartley, the rookie we signed could be a stud, or our kicker could be Martin Gramattica...

[Lonestar]

9-7

We'll lose to Jax and Cleveland, but win 3 of 4 from both the NFC South and AFC East opponents. We'll sweep KC, get swept by SD and split w/ Oakland.


I am very excited about the DLine now. Powell sounds like a run stopping stud and seems to fill out a nice rotation w/ Thomas and Robertson. Hoping the DEs are healthy, cuz we have a stable. The youth is exciting and Crowder's size offers flexibility on 3rd downs.

The LBs will be improved. Noone know Niko, but the Seahawks fans loved him and he was the 4th LB on one of the best LB corps in the league. Boss is an upgrade from Gold and DJ moving to his righful place also improves what he can bring.

Let's be honest, the Safeties can't get worse, but Abdullah is 1 year wiser and we added depth/competition w/ the 2 FAs and Barrett. If Barrett toughens up, we got a steal...and don't forget Woodyard. The CBs should have to cheat less due to the improved front 7.

The O will be fine. The line wasn't awful ALL year, just looked awful vs SD on national TV. That being said, we got healthier in the middle and added the rookie from BGU. I really like Holland. Plenty of options at OT as Kuper can float, Harris is healthier and Clady hopefully lives up to the hype. peasr is more than capable backup if someone goes down.

RBs will be fine. I can see the 09 draft as the year we get our stud. Hillis adds flexibility and a pass catching threat in the redzone.

Cutty is god.

Hope BMarsh is fine, cuz that's the deal breaker. IF he is, defenses will have a hell of a time keeping up w/ out litle guys zooming all over the place...Stokley, Jackson, Royal, Colbert.

Special Teams, as always, concern me.

overall pretty good but IMO optimistic on how fast this will fall together there are a lot of new faces on this team and most of the faces are very young.. I doubt this team really starts to jell before the bye.. By then they could only have one win.. a real downer to overcome..

[TXBRONC]

Long range to me is over 35 yards or so, and Elam was definitely above average on those longish kicks...so yeah, we will most likely miss him when we fail to get inside the 20, but I'd say most NFL kickers are pretty automatic on kicks 35 yards and in.

Heck, we may even be able to steal some points off of 50 yard FG's since Elam didn't have the leg to kick those anymore. I love Elam, but I just don't think that we will miss him as much as many seem to think we will.

I would just about guarantee that if guy can't kick 35-40 yard field goal consistently he wont be kicking for anyone.

[Lonestar]

Eh, maybe so. I guess it will be easier to judge once we actually know who the kicker is going to be and once we see him in action a little bit, eh? Hartley, the rookie we signed could be a stud, or our kicker could be Martin Gramattica...

lets hope we are on a young streak at kicker also.. I'd rather rebuild it than settle on someone else's loser castoffs.

[honz]

I would just about guarantee that if guy can't kick 35-40 yard field goal consistently he wont be kicking for anyone.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Elam's not the only guy that can knock those in. We probably aren't going to get someone as automatic as Elam right away, but we aren't going to be stuck with some high school kicker, either.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

overall pretty good but IMO optimistic on how fast this will fall together there are a lot of new faces on this team and most of the faces are very young.. I doubt this team really starts to jell before the bye.. By then they could only have one win.. a real downer to overcome..

Keep in mind that this team isn't terrible to start with. Our biggest isue was run D. We addd 2 DTs and Thomas is a year older. Our starters are now simply depth. That alone is worth a win or 2 as the CBs can hopefully trust the DLine enough.

[Tned]

Keep in mind that this team isn't terrible to start with. Our biggest isue was run D. We addd 2 DTs and Thomas is a year older. Our starters are now simply depth. That alone is worth a win or 2 as the CBs can hopefully trust the DLine enough.

People make it seem like the whole lineup has been turned upside down. It just isn't the case. Our lineup starting 2008 isn't going to be drastically different than would ended 2007. Mostly, we are just returning our veterans to the o-line along with the youngsters that gained valuable experience (plus likely a rookie in Clady) and adding a veteran DT, and then the biggest change is two new faces at LB.



Week 17 2008
Lepsis Clady
Kuper Hamilton
Myers Nalen
Holland Holland
Pears Kuper

Cutler Cutler
Marshall Marshall
Walker Stokely (or a FA)
Young Henry/Young
Scheffler Scheffler
Mustard Graham


Engelberger Engelberger/Crowder
M. Thomas Thomas
A. Mckinley Robertson
Dumervil Dumervil

Winborn Williams
Williams Koutouvides??
Webster Boss Bailey

Bailey Bailey
Bly Bly
Abdullah Abdullah/?
Lynch Lynch

As you can see, it isn't like the lineup is being completely ripped apart and put back together. Instead, (depending on who actually wins certain jobs in camp like MLB and free safety and LT) it is mostly veterans or players with 1-2 years of experience in Denver.

So, while it is possible that the team will struggle, especially early, what we are likely witnessing is the END of yet another Shanahan rebuild on the fly. He has done it about three times where without going through a traditional rebuilding phase, he completely replaces/retools the lineup. This typically results in one or two so/so years (vs. the 2-4 win seasons most teams experience in rebuilding phases) and then back to playoff runs.

Hence, the reason I expect a playoff run this season. Over the last 20+ years, I have seen bad Broncos lineups that resulted in bad seasons, this isn't one of them. There is plenty of talent on this team. Maybe not Patriots/Indy talent, but definately playoff caliber talent.

[MOtorboat]

Week 17 2008
Lepsis Clady
Kuper Hamilton
Myers Nalen
Holland Holland
Pears Kuper

Cutler Cutler
Marshall Marshall
Walker Stokely (or a FA)
Young Henry/Young
Scheffler Scheffler
Mustard Graham


Engelberger Engelberger/Crowder
M. Thomas Thomas
A. Mckinley Robertson
Dumervil Dumervil

Winborn Williams
Williams Koutouvides??
Webster Boss Bailey

Bailey Bailey
Bly Bly
Abdullah Abdullah/?
Lynch Lynch

You mean Shanahan knows what he's doing?...

I think you are about dead on with your assessment of our starters entering camp. I think Moss could win a starting job in front of Engelberger, and I think No. 2 wide receiver is way up in the air.

The offensive line is completely different from Week 17, but not that much different from Week 1 of last year. It's not a retooling, because we had several veterans hurt, so I agree there. While it will look different than Week 17, it doesn't look different from what the depth chart actually looked like, with the exception, of course, of Clady.

And, the linebacking core looks much different with Williams on the outside and Niko in the middle and Boss on the strong side...

Things will look different on the field this year, but that's because of different LBs, and a healthy o-line.

[Lonestar]

Keep in mind that this team isn't terrible to start with. Our biggest isue was run D. We addd 2 DTs and Thomas is a year older. Our starters are now simply depth. That alone is worth a win or 2 as the CBs can hopefully trust the DLine enough.

Your correct about the DT spot the biggest area of need. Well lets hope your correct in this assumption. But we have a lot of newbies in new positions from last year as well as a "new" scheme.

I'm not all that optimistic just yet.. let me rethink this in preseason..

[Magnificent Seven]

Week 1 — At Oak. Loss
Week 2 — San Diego. Win
Week 3 — New Orleans Win
Week 4 — at KC Win
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Win
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win
Week 7 — at New England Loss
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win
Week 10 — at Cleveland Win
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win
Week 12 — Oakland Loss
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Win
Week 14 — Kansas City Win
Week 15 — at Carolina Win
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win
Week 17 — at San Diego Loss

Lost to the Raiders? Kiss my ass! Broncos will raise some hell on Monday Night Football! No question about it!

[BroncoAV06]

One thing that I find interesting about this year is the amount of 1st rounders that we will get to see compaird to past years. Players that people wanted at 12 etc..

(Overall)
Week 1 — At Oak.
McFadden(4th)
Week 2 — San Diego.
Antoine Cason (27th)
Week 3 — New Orleans
Sedrick Ellis (7th)
Week 4 — at KC
Dorsey(5th)/Albert(17th)
Week 5 — Tampa Bay
Talib(20th)
Week 6 — Jacksonville
Harvey (8th)
Week 7 — at New England
Jarod Mayo (10th)
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami
Jake Long (1st) Phill Merling (32nd)
Week 10 — at Cleveland
Week 11 — at Atlanta
Good chance could be starter by this time, Matt Ryan (3rd) Sam Baker (21st)
Week 12 — Oakland
Again McFadden
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets
Vernon Gholston (6th) TE Dustin Keller (31st)
Week 14 — Kansas City
Again...
Week 15 — at Carolina
John Stewart (13th) Jeff Otah (19th)
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills
Leodis McKelvin (11th)
Week 17 — at San Diego

[Tned]

Things will look different on the field this year, but that's because of different LBs, and a healthy o-line.

Exactly. That's what I was trying to show. You read a lot of posts and it looks like half of our team is going to be brand new. The fact is that other than the LB corp being 2/3'rds new, where talking about adding a rookie OL and a veteran DT to the team.

[TXBRONC]

People make it seem like the whole lineup has been turned upside down. It just isn't the case. Our lineup starting 2008 isn't going to be drastically different than would ended 2007. Mostly, we are just returning our veterans to the o-line along with the youngsters that gained valuable experience (plus likely a rookie in Clady) and adding a veteran DT, and then the biggest change is two new faces at LB.



Week 17 2008
Lepsis Clady
Kuper Hamilton
Myers Nalen
Holland Holland
Pears Kuper

Cutler Cutler
Marshall Marshall
Walker Stokely (or a FA)
Young Henry/Young
Scheffler Scheffler
Mustard Graham


Engelberger Engelberger/Crowder
M. Thomas Thomas
A. Mckinley Robertson
Dumervil Dumervil

Winborn Williams
Williams Koutouvides??
Webster Boss Bailey

Bailey Bailey
Bly Bly
Abdullah Abdullah/?
Lynch Lynch

As you can see, it isn't like the lineup is being completely ripped apart and put back together. Instead, (depending on who actually wins certain jobs in camp like MLB and free safety and LT) it is mostly veterans or players with 1-2 years of experience in Denver.

So, while it is possible that the team will struggle, especially early, what we are likely witnessing is the END of yet another Shanahan rebuild on the fly. He has done it about three times where without going through a traditional rebuilding phase, he completely replaces/retools the lineup. This typically results in one or two so/so years (vs. the 2-4 win seasons most teams experience in rebuilding phases) and then back to playoff runs.

Hence, the reason I expect a playoff run this season. Over the last 20+ years, I have seen bad Broncos lineups that resulted in bad seasons, this isn't one of them. There is plenty of talent on this team. Maybe not Patriots/Indy talent, but definately playoff caliber talent.

Well done Tned and I think for the most part line ups are dead on.

Don't forget about Ekuban at this point it looks like he'll be back. I don't know if he'll be penciled in as starter but I think he will if he's healthy which means Engelberger get pushed back on the depth chart.

From everything I have read about the receivers Shanahan really wants to move Stokely back to the slot so I suspect either Jackson or Colbert will end up starting opposite Marshall.

[TXBRONC]

Exactly. That's what I was trying to show. You read a lot of posts and it looks like half of our team is going to be brand new. The fact is that other than the LB corp being 2/3'rds new, where talking about adding a rookie OL and a veteran DT to the team.

There wont be as many newbies as some people think. Most of what we see is the shifting personell to different positions. As it stands right if your line ups are correct there will only be four new players to the starting line ups. Three on defense and one on offense.

[Tned]

There wont be as many newbies as some people think. Most of what we see is the shifting personell to different positions. As it stands right if your line ups are correct there will only be four new players to the starting line ups. Three on defense and one on offense.

Agreed. I had posted elsewhere about Ekuban. I know he is listed as a DE, but didn't he play some DT for us or there was talk of him playing some DT before he blew out the achiles? I was thinking he might be in line to be in the DT rotation, but maybe I am just imagining that.

[TXBRONC]

Agreed. I had posted elsewhere about Ekuban. I know he is listed as a DE, but didn't he play some DT for us or there was talk of him playing some DT before he blew out the achiles? I was thinking he might be in line to be in the DT rotation, but maybe I am just imagining that.


I don't remember. He's big enough that on passing downs he could move inside to make room for Moss or Crowder.

[BroncoAV06]

Agreed. I had posted elsewhere about Ekuban. I know he is listed as a DE, but didn't he play some DT for us or there was talk of him playing some DT before he blew out the achiles? I was thinking he might be in line to be in the DT rotation, but maybe I am just imagining that.

Could see Ekuban at DT in Nickel and say passing situations if that is something they want to do.

[WARHORSE]

Week 1 — At Oak. Win-Gonna rip em a new black hole.......:coffee:
Week 2 — San Diego. Win-Rivers got some dirt to eat.
Week 3 — New Orleans Win-No offense to anyone-hurricane Denver comin
Week 4 — at KC Win-They wont win 5 games this year.
Week 5 — Tampa Bay Win-Chucky's last scene.......
Week 6 — Jacksonville Win-Nail biter..........for them.
Week 7 — at New England-Belichick: Shanahans whipping boy.SLAP!!!!
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami Win-Play the second string.:coffee:
Week 10 — at Cleveland Win-Its the Browns-They know whats comin
Week 11 — at Atlanta Win-No Vick? No pick. Broncos in a landslide.
Week 12 — Oakland Win-RIP em a third black hole........
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets Win-Robertson MVP of the game.
Week 14 — Kansas City Win-KC win?............yeah right.
Week 15 — at Carolina Win-Steve Smith will have a big game..next week.
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills win-Cant see it. Buffalo sucks.
Week 17 — at San Diego Win-Rivers is exposed for being a poser.:coffee:

[Nature Boy]

As bad as the defense was last year, now that I think about it, it's surprising that the Broncos managed a 7-9 record. If we didn't blow the Green Bay and Chicago games, 2 games that we should have won, we would have been 9-7 and barely missed a wildcard birth.

With the addition of Robertson, Jackson, others; the great draft we just had, specifically a true LT in Clady, Cutler coming into his 3rd year and Travis "the Beast" Henry being 100% healthy and focused, I don't see why the Broncos will not be at least 11-5 or better. Can't wait til September.

[omac]

Perhaps but we rarely have been good against BOTH run and Pass so being great against the run that year we were unable to stop the pass therefore NO ONE needed to run on us..

I think we will be improved unless the grim reaper strike again, but then most of the teams we are going to play also improved themselves.. that beginning of the year is going to be brutal perhaps only winning one of the games before the bye.

Offense almost always takes longer to jell than the defenses do but with all the changes we have this year that may not be true either..

Right now we have 3 starters back from last year on defense in their position they started at the end of the year.. Champ, Bly and John. And remember they will/may be playing a NEW system again for the second year in a row..

You do mean win them by 12 2x6=12 as we do not even know of someone can even convert a PAT..

I mostly agree with everything in principle, but I disagree that one of the reasons we were good against the run is that teams didn't need to run on us since they could pass on us. Rushing is always the higher percentage play, and passing is always the lower percentage play in that more things can go wrong execution wise ... wrong route, wrong timing, bad pass, drops, etc.

We were good against the run, but we couldn't get to the qb; that should change with some of the edge talent we've acquired. Hopefully, the guys we've acquired since losing some of our run stuffers during the Bates experiment would prove a worthy addition.

[fcspikeit]

Week 1 — At Oak. WIN
Week 2 — San Diego. WIN
Week 3 — New Orleans LOSS
Week 4 — at KC WIN
Week 5 — Tampa Bay WIN
Week 6 — Jacksonville LOSS
Week 7 — at New England LOSS
Oct. 26 — Bye.
Week 9 — Miami WIN
Week 10 — at Cleveland LOSS
Week 11 — at Atlanta WIN
Week 12 — Oakland WIN
Week 13 — at N.Y. Jets WIN
Week 14 — Kansas City WIN
Week 15 — at Carolina WIN
Week 16 — Buffalo Bills WIN
Week 17 — at San Diego LOSS

Man I hope I was wrong about that!!! :D

[Fan in Exile]

Man I hope I was wrong about that!!! :D

Me too