PDA

View Full Version : Travis Henry will be the man in Denver.



Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 04:23 PM
For those draft experts who suggested we spend the #12 on Stewart or Mendenhall and pick up a 2nd or 3rd rate OT in the later rounds, the results of the draft proved that you guys had absolutely no clue what you guys were talking about. After we drafted Clady, 5 OTs(including Alberts) were drafted in the next 9 positions. The Texans also drafted 1 with their #26. Had we not grab Clady when we did, we'd be licking our chops right now.

Mendenhall, who I too thought was the best RB in the draft dropped down to the 23rd behind Stewart and Felix Jones. Apparently Coach didn't think too highly of Mendenhall or he would have made a move for him(trade 1st & 2nd rd of 09').
WHY? Because Coach knows Travis Henry is his "MAN" in Denver. Coach was all gitty over Henry early in the season before he got banged up. Toughest running RB in Denver in a while the way he breaks tackle after tackle. I'm foreseeing a 1500 yard, 10+ TD yr for Travis Henry.

The draft is now over. I can't wait til camp and the pre-season comes to tie up a few lose ends; then we can make a run at them Chargers. :elefant: :elefant: :elefant:

honz
04-28-2008, 04:31 PM
I hope you are right. I think some people forget how effective Henry was before he got injured last year.

I did want Stewart in the draft, but I think it was partly because it would have been exciting.

tubby
04-28-2008, 04:32 PM
Big Hoss #20

:salute:

Retired_Member_001
04-28-2008, 04:33 PM
The only way he becomes the man in Denver is if he keeps smoking that stuff that makes him FEEL like he's the man...

BroncoJoe
04-28-2008, 04:33 PM
I've watched a few of the early games on NFLN. I don't really care for Henry as a person, but he can tote the rock. After a depressing 2007 - especially how it ended - I had forgotten how punishing he was, how he could break tackles, rarely go down on first contact and his surprising "game" speed. I hope he stays healthy, because I'll bet he could reach 1,500 yards this year if so.

Edit: meant to say 1,500 yards...

Requiem / The Dagda
04-28-2008, 04:34 PM
Let's hope we find a high-character, long-term solution in 2009.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 04:34 PM
Big Hoss #20

:salute:

Don't forget R8t8r and Tagger... clueless.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 04:36 PM
The only way he becomes the man in Denver is if he keeps smoking that stuff that makes him FEEL like he's the man...

Who do you think will supplant Henry for the starting job this season? Young? Torain? Come on...

SmilinAssasSin27
04-28-2008, 04:36 PM
Plenty of RB and Safety options in teh 09 draft. I have no problem waiting 1 more year for the stud RB. Nobody here is a bigger Henry fan that I, but dude is on the wrong side of his career/talent. That said, he can get 1,300 yards here if he stays healthy...but will he?

G_Money
04-28-2008, 04:36 PM
For those draft experts who suggested we spend the #12 on Stewart or Mendenhall and pick up a 2nd or 3rd rate OT in the later rounds, the results of the proved that you guys had absolutely no clue what you guys were talking about. After we drafted Clady, 5 OTs(including Alberts) were drafted in the next 9 positions. The Texans also drafted 1 with their #26. Had we not grab Clady when we did, we'd be licking our chops right now.

Mendenhall, who I too thought was the best RB in the draft dropped down to the 23rd behind Stewart and Felix Jones. Apparently Coach didn't think too highly of Mendenhall or he would have made a move for him(trade 1st & 2nd rd of 09').
WHY? Because Coach knows Travis Henry is his "MAN" in Denver. Coach was all gitty over Henry early in the season before he got banged up. Toughest running RB in Denver in a while the way he breaks tackle after tackle. I'm foreseeing a 1500 yard, 10+ TD yr for Travis Henry.

The draft is now over. I can't wait til camp and the pre-season comes to tie up a few lose ends; then we can make a run at them Chargers. :elefant: :elefant: :elefant:


I'm with you on the first paragraph.

But Henry has a LONG way to go to establish his "Man" hood here in Denver again. Shanny has already threatened his starting job.

Seriously, Hillis and Torain could challenge for the job (as long as they can hold on to the ball). Shanahan's gonna run whoever the hot back is that week unless one of the guys steps up - Henry is no longer the 20-carry back by default.

I still think we'll be looking for a back again next year, but Young and Hall have the quicks, while Hillis and Torain have the beef.

Our RBBC is still intact for the coming season - and there's no guarantee for Henry that he's a part of that committee.

This is a RB sorting year. Once we know how the guys we have do, we'll decide who to add or if we're gonna stand pat.

They want Henry to earn his cash, so he'll get his shot...but he blew all the goodwill he had with Shanny last year. This year is gonna be all about performance.

For everyone.

~G

Retired_Member_001
04-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Let's hope we find a high-character, long-term solution in 2009.

I agree. We need a guy who can be our main back for the next 8 years. He needs to be a complete back (Speed, power, blocking ability and receiving ability) whilst being a good character.

Retired_Member_001
04-28-2008, 04:38 PM
Who do you think will supplant Henry for the starting job this season? Young? Torain? Come on...

I think he'll get injured or suspended and then the only ones left will be Young and Torain. Selvin Young can't take hits, but I'd rather have Selvin Young getting the majority of the carries.

Drill-N-Fill
04-28-2008, 04:41 PM
Let's hope we find a high-character, long-term solution in 2009.

Knowshon Moreno...can't miss prospect, if he declares.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 04:42 PM
I but he can tote the rock. After a depressing 2007 - especially how it ended - I had forgotten how punishing he was, how he could break tackles, rarely go down on first contact and his surprising "game" speed. I hope he stays healthy, because I'll bet he could reach 1,700 yards this year if so.

Amen to that. He looked amazing, the offense looked amazing the 1st 4 games. The start of the season got me all excited for nothing, but that's the way the story goes in Denver the last 10 years. Start strong then crash hard 70% into the season. The team always lacked depth in key positions to adjust the rigors of the NFL.

honz
04-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Moreno is a stud, but I bet he goes early in the draft so it might be hard to get him if we are any good this year.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 04:49 PM
Let's hope we find a high-character, long-term solution in 2009.

My RB target in this year's draft was Jamaal Charles. Too bad we didn't have a 3rd rounder or Coach would've grabbed him. Jamaal Charles barely tapped into his potential as a football player spending so much time in track. It's gonna be scary what he can do after a year of an NFL workout regiment.

The Chiefs got a gem of a RB in Charles. They had an awesome draft. Their picks from the 2nd and 3rd round(all on my radar) were elite and will be impact players for years to come and this is not counting their 2, 1st rounders, Dorsey and Alberts. The AFC West will be fun for a long time.

Stargazer
04-28-2008, 04:57 PM
I hope he stays healthy..

That is mainly the problem with him. He doesn't play 16 games. He has done it only once and that was in 2002.

Day1BroncoFan
04-28-2008, 04:57 PM
For those draft experts who suggested we spend the #12 on Stewart or Mendenhall and pick up a 2nd or 3rd rate OT in the later rounds, the results of the proved that you guys had absolutely no clue what you guys were talking about. After we drafted Clady, 5 OTs(including Alberts) were drafted in the next 9 positions. The Texans also drafted 1 with their #26. Had we not grab Clady when we did, we'd be licking our chops right now.

Mendenhall, who I too thought was the best RB in the draft dropped down to the 23rd behind Stewart and Felix Jones. Apparently Coach didn't think too highly of Mendenhall or he would have made a move for him(trade 1st & 2nd rd of 09').
WHY? Because Coach knows Travis Henry is his "MAN" in Denver. Coach was all gitty over Henry early in the season before he got banged up. Toughest running RB in Denver in a while the way he breaks tackle after tackle. I'm foreseeing a 1500 yard, 10+ TD yr for Travis Henry.

The draft is now over. I can't wait til camp and the pre-season comes to tie up a few lose ends; then we can make a run at them Chargers. :elefant: :elefant: :elefant:

I hope you're right!!! :coffee:

BroncoWave
04-28-2008, 05:06 PM
Knowshon Moreno...can't miss prospect, if he declares.

Definitely! Beanie Wells from Ohio State is another solid first round prospect for next year. If Henry get injured, struggles, or gets suspended this season, I'd have no problem drafting one of those guys in the first round next season.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 05:12 PM
I'm with you on the first paragraph.

But Henry has a LONG way to go to establish his "Man" hood here in Denver again. Shanny has already threatened his starting job.

Seriously, Hillis and Torain could challenge for the job (as long as they can hold on to the ball). Shanahan's gonna run whoever the hot back is that week unless one of the guys steps up - Henry is no longer the 20-carry back by default.

I still think we'll be looking for a back again next year, but Young and Hall have the quicks, while Hillis and Torain have the beef.

Our RBBC is still intact for the coming season - and there's no guarantee for Henry that he's a part of that committee.

This is a RB sorting year. Once we know how the guys we have do, we'll decide who to add or if we're gonna stand pat.

They want Henry to earn his cash, so he'll get his shot...but he blew all the goodwill he had with Shanny last year. This year is gonna be all about performance.

For everyone.

~G

I couldn't disagree with your analysis more. Long as I can remember, Coach threatens every player's starting job any chance he gets as to create some competition and to keep the starters on their toes, to keep them in line. Henry is definitely in the dog house, not cause if his play but cause of the pee test.

I think you're jumping the gun with Hillis and Torain. We just picked those guys up and they havn't even suited a Broncos uniform yet. Torain may have a shot in the rotation to expel Henry and Young, but he is far behind the waiting list right now. And Hillis will be lucky to see the field at FB much less at RB with Cecil Sapp there.

No one is handed the starting job, especially when Mike Shanahan is the coach. Henry will be the Broncos premier back in Denver simply because he is the best we have. Coach was behind Henry and backed him all the way during the testing fiasco, not because he believes Henry didn't smoke pot, but because he knew Henry would be cleared on a technicality and he needed Henry back on the field if Denver was to go anywhere. Henry publicly stated that he appreciates Coach for standing up for him and that he will make right for Coach and the Broncos for his testing mix up. I think Henry will work hard and make right on his promise.

TXBRONC
04-28-2008, 05:20 PM
I hope you are right. I think some people forget how effective Henry was before he got injured last year.

I did want Stewart in the draft, but I think it was partly because it would have been exciting.

I'm not one that has forgotten what he did but not being able to stay healthy is a concern.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 05:24 PM
I think he'll get injured or suspended and then the only ones left will be Young and Torain. Selvin Young can't take hits, but I'd rather have Selvin Young getting the majority of the carries.

I think you guys are trashing Henry not because of his play and ability on the field, but you guys have painted a picture of him being the pot smoking, multiple baby mama having bad guy off the field.

Just look at what he's done in Buffalo, in Tennessee and especially the 4 games he's played here in Denver when he was healthy as reference. The guy is a killer RB. If you can't see that, you're either blinded by bias or you're just a bad judge of football talent. I'm not saying Henry is the franchise back here in Denver, I'm saying he is the answer for this season and probably the next. I'll wait til he turns 33-34 before I say he's too old or washed up.

Retired_Member_001
04-28-2008, 05:30 PM
I think you guys are trashing Henry not because of his play and ability on the field, but you guys have painted a picture of him being the pot smoking, multiple baby mama having bad guy off the field.

Just look at what he's done in Buffalo, in Tennessee and especially the 4 games he's played here in Denver when he was healthy as reference. The guy is a killer RB. If you can't see that, you're either blinded by bias or you're just a bad judge of football talent. I'm not saying Henry is the franchise back here in Denver, I'm saying he is the answer for this season and probably the next. I'll wait til he turns 33-34 before I say he's too old or washed up.

He's a killer RB, I agree.

However, he is old and lacks break away speed. You cannot deny that he is not the brightest person on the field and that his off court problems paint a bad picture of him. You also forget that Henry IS extremely injury prone.

Henry is a big risk in my opinion. If he can get it done this season, then I'll be happy. However, I wouldn't be suprised if he only played 8-10 games this season.

jrelway
04-28-2008, 05:45 PM
lets just hope he stays healthy and gets in the redzone just a tad bit more. im sure he smoked himself silly in the offseason, so maybe the urge to toke up will be gone.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 05:50 PM
He's a killer RB, I agree.

However, he is old and lacks break away speed. You cannot deny that he is not the brightest person on the field and that his off court problems paint a bad picture of him. You also forget that Henry IS extremely injury prone.

Henry is a big risk in my opinion. If he can get it done this season, then I'll be happy. However, I wouldn't be suprised if he only played 8-10 games this season.

3 things:

1.) He just turned 30. There is plenty of life in 30 yr old legs. We're not franchising the guy. If we can get 2 more yrs out of him, which I think we will, we've scored.

2.) I think Henry is pretty darn bright on the field. He is a hell of a pass blocker. He sells screens better than most backs in the league. He isn't that bad of a WR on the dump pass. What more do you want from a RB? As long as what he does off the field doesn't keep him off the field, that is his business. Why do you care? Last I checked, smoking weed was a pretty peaceful thing.

3.) Risk? What risk? We already paid him his bonus money. That was the risk, no more. Now Bowlen just needs to get his money's worth.

I think I covered all your grounds Wookie.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 06:06 PM
lets just hope he stays healthy and gets in the redzone just a tad bit more. im sure he smoked himself silly in the offseason, so maybe the urge to toke up will be gone.

The Red Zone inefficiency was more the O-line's fault that Travis Henry's. Last season, Henry got me a lot of Fantasy Football points in my team, not from TDs, but from his 100+ per game average the 1st 3-4 games; then the testing fiasco and the bruised ribs and toe/ankle injuries.

I don't know the exact details but from what I understand was the NFL drug testers ambushed Henry for a sample and Henry asked that he had a representative present. Well the testers insisted on the sample without obliging Henry's request which is permitted under the NFL and NFL Player's Union policy. It took a while and was a huge distraction to himself and the team but the test was eventually thrown out. If I am wrong or is missing any details, please do educate me.

Marijuana is a great muscle relaxant. I can see why football players and body builders would want to "smoke the tree" to help their body relieve the body aches after work. In California, a doctor will happily grant you a prescription for it. You just have to use it in moderation as too much of anything is not good for you. Even food, if you eat too much, you'll become a "fat ass", lower your daily quality of life and probably die of a heart attack before 55.

Tebow4Ever
04-28-2008, 06:14 PM
I for one would like to see Henry have a 1100+ Season with multiple TD's. It would be nice to see that power running game again here in Denver.

fcspikeit
04-28-2008, 06:50 PM
I think you guys are trashing Henry not because of his play and ability on the field, but you guys have painted a picture of him being the pot smoking, multiple baby mama having bad guy off the field.

Just look at what he's done in Buffalo, in Tennessee and especially the 4 games he's played here in Denver when he was healthy as reference. The guy is a killer RB. If you can't see that, you're either blinded by bias or you're just a bad judge of football talent. I'm not saying Henry is the franchise back here in Denver, I'm saying he is the answer for this season and probably the next. I'll wait til he turns 33-34 before I say he's too old or washed up.

Come on, Henry isn't that good! He might be our starting RB at the start of the year but forgive me for not being overly excited about it.

At his best last year he looked like Mike Anderson. He is slow and he doesn't have that much power. He is one dimensional big time! No one fears Henry. He is just another back.

I am glad we got Clady with our 12th but I really hope one of our other guys steps up and takes the job away from Henry, At least after Young came in we had excitement in our backfield again, There is no excitement knowing Henry is our starting RB.

All he is is a work horse and he couldn't even do that. Now we're talking about limiting his carries because he can't carry the load. It's like having Tatum Bell without the game changing speed.

I hope he proves me wrong next year but I doubt it...

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 07:01 PM
Come on, Henry isn't that good! He might be our starting RB at the start of the year but forgive me for not being overly excited about it.

At his best last year he looked like Mike Anderson. He is slow and he doesn't have that much power. He is one dimensional big time! No one fears Henry. He is just another back.

I am glad we got Clady with our 12th but I really hope one of our other guys steps up and takes the job away from Henry, At least after Young came in we had excitement in our backfield again, There is no excitement knowing Henry is our starting RB.

All he is is a work horse and he couldn't even do that. Now we're talking about limiting his carries because he can't carry the load. It's like having Tatum Bell without the game changing speed.

I hope he proves me wrong next year but I doubt it...


Hahaha. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. You should watch more games and make your own opinions instead of getting all your info off this board. :welcome:

omac
04-28-2008, 07:25 PM
I don't doubt at all that Henry can consistently have 100 yard games; my only concern is if he can stay injury free. That said, in hindsight, I'm really glad we didn't take and RB in the 1st, with the intent of taking an OT in the 2nd, because as Nature Boy pointed out, all the really good ones would've been taken.

We might've ended up with Duane Brown (Houston, 26), Mike Pollack (Indy, 59), John Greco (Rams, 65), Chad Rinehart (Redskins, 96), Mike McGlynn (Eagles, 109), Shawn Murphy (Dolphins), Anthony Collins (Cincy, 112), Tony Hills (Steelers, 130), David Hale (Ravens, 133), Josh Sitton (Packers, 135), Breno Jiacomini (Packers, 150), Carl Nicks (Saits, 164), etc ......

Some of these guys might end up as excellent players, but as they are, most of them have a lot of weaknesses to overcome before they can play in the NFL. There are also conflicting reports by different analysts on how good they are. Most of them are projects with upside, not exactly the type you'd want to have protecting your franchise QB's back.

Brown and Baker were reaches in the 1st, but those teams knew all the really good ones would be gone before the 2nd round. Teams that needed an OT now picked them in the 1st if they could. Getting Clady is a safer bet, than getting Mendenhall and throwing the dice on OT.

omac
04-28-2008, 07:30 PM
Hahaha. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. You should watch more games and make your own opinions instead of getting all your info off this board. :welcome:

fcspikeit does watch games, and has his own opinions. In this point, though, I disagree with him. In the early games, Henry was explosive, and was breaking tackles and moving defenders backwards. Our running game looked awesome. But Henry hasn't proven to us that he could do that for a complete season, so we'll have to wait and see.

Lonestar
04-28-2008, 08:04 PM
I hope you are right. I think some people forget how effective Henry was before he got injured last year.

I did want Stewart in the draft, but I think it was partly because it would have been exciting.

agianst loser defenses he did well last year..

jrelway
04-28-2008, 08:05 PM
The Red Zone inefficiency was more the O-line's fault that Travis Henry's. Last season, Henry got me a lot of Fantasy Football points in my team, not from TDs, but from his 100+ per game average the 1st 3-4 games; then the testing fiasco and the bruised ribs and toe/ankle injuries.

I don't know the exact details but from what I understand was the NFL drug testers ambushed Henry for a sample and Henry asked that he had a representative present. Well the testers insisted on the sample without obliging Henry's request which is permitted under the NFL and NFL Player's Union policy. It took a while and was a huge distraction to himself and the team but the test was eventually thrown out. If I am wrong or is missing any details, please do educate me.

Marijuana is a great muscle relaxant. I can see why football players and body builders would want to "smoke the tree" to help their body relieve the body aches after work. In California, a doctor will happily grant you a prescription for it. You just have to use it in moderation as too much of anything is not good for you. Even food, if you eat too much, you'll become a "fat ass", lower your daily quality of life and probably die of a heart attack before 55.

bad O line, good O line, he still needs to get his ass in the endzone more. as for the marijuana, yes it helps with aches and pains. i myself love the sweet sweet spinich. I just hope Travis knows what time it is already.

fcspikeit
04-28-2008, 09:50 PM
Hahaha. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. You should watch more games and make your own opinions instead of getting all your info off this board. :welcome:

I see...

So everyone who wasn't impressed with Henry "in the little time he spent on the field" Don't know what their talking about. And who is it that we are all getting misinformation from? :lol::lol:

You were really impressed with him? Seriously? LOL

Even after the 4th game he wasn't one of the top 5 backs in the game. Not even close! He was just another Broncos running back. We have had worse runners put up as good of #'s against the types of defenses we were playing..

Look, I didn't say he sucked, just that even at his best, no one feared him, he isn't that type of back. He is a grind out, wear you down work horse type back. The sad thing was that he couldn't hold up doing that. He isn't worth that much to us only running 10-15 times a game. He will either be carrying the load (20-30) or we will be rotating our other backs..

We don't even need him on short yardage now, he wasn't very good at that anyways... His days here are # unless he can turn things around in a big way next year :coffee:

fcspikeit
04-28-2008, 09:58 PM
fcspikeit does watch games, and has his own opinions. In this point, though, I disagree with him. In the early games, Henry was explosive, and was breaking tackles and moving defenders backwards. Our running game looked awesome. But Henry hasn't proven to us that he could do that for a complete season, so we'll have to wait and see.

Thanks mac! :salute:

You really thought he looked explosive? Like he could take it to the house at any time? I thought at his best he looked like a hard runner who would consistently get you 4 yards.

We were burning a lot of clock to kick field goals. Remember how low scoring those game were? IMO we needed more big plays. It's nice knowing that you can almost always count on getting a couple big runs a game.. Knowing that they can come at any moment. For me that feeling came after Young went in. It just felt like the best we could hope out of Henry was a 15 yarder...

TXBRONC
04-28-2008, 10:05 PM
Come on, Henry isn't that good! He might be our starting RB at the start of the year but forgive me for not being overly excited about it.

At his best last year he looked like Mike Anderson. He is slow and he doesn't have that much power. He is one dimensional big time! No one fears Henry. He is just another back.

I am glad we got Clady with our 12th but I really hope one of our other guys steps up and takes the job away from Henry, At least after Young came in we had excitement in our backfield again, There is no excitement knowing Henry is our starting RB.

All he is is a work horse and he couldn't even do that. Now we're talking about limiting his carries because he can't carry the load. It's like having Tatum Bell without the game changing speed.

I hope he proves me wrong next year but I doubt it...

FC I think before Henry injured his knee he was running with power. His biggest problem (on the field) was that he couldn't stay healthy.

That being said I don't think he's going to be able to carry the ball 300 plus times. He needs someone to split carries with him.

topscribe
04-28-2008, 10:09 PM
agianst loser defenses he did well last year..

Yes, I keep hearing that, mainly from the same people.

It doesn't matter whom Henry ran against: they were all pros. He did it
consistently, one game after another. He did it elsewhere against good and
"bad" teams. He is a good runner, or they would not have brought him here
with that bonus. Probably the best way I know, however, is that I watched
him play . . . he is good. Period.

-----

pipes
04-28-2008, 10:25 PM
3 things:

1.) He just turned 30. There is plenty of life in 30 yr old legs. We're not franchising the guy. If we can get 2 more yrs out of him, which I think we will, we've scored.

2.) I think Henry is pretty darn bright on the field. He is a hell of a pass blocker. He sells screens better than most backs in the league. He isn't that bad of a WR on the dump pass. What more do you want from a RB? As long as what he does off the field doesn't keep him off the field, that is his business. Why do you care? Last I checked, smoking weed was a pretty peaceful thing.

3.) Risk? What risk? We already paid him his bonus money. That was the risk, no more. Now Bowlen just needs to get his money's worth.

I think I covered all your grounds Wookie.

Actually he doesn't turn 30 until late October.

What a party that should be!!!

fcspikeit
04-28-2008, 10:39 PM
Yes, I keep hearing that, mainly from the same people.

It doesn't matter whom Henry ran against: they were all pros. He did it
consistently, one game after another. He did it elsewhere against good and
"bad" teams. He is a good runner, or they would not have brought him here
with that bonus. Probably the best way I know, however, is that I watched
him play . . . he is good. Period.

-----

I agree top... He is a good back.. I don't think anyone can rightly say he is great but he is good/OK.

It just seemed to me that some here are really excited about what he can do. That is odd to me because I just don't see it :confused:

TD was exciting, CP was exciting, even Tatum Bell was exciting. IMO, Henry just isn't exciting. He's the type of guy who will hit the pile hard and fall forward to get you 4 yards.

How many + 20 yard runs did he have? Really, am I missing something or did it seem like all the explosive runs we had came from Young and Hall?

TXBRONC
04-28-2008, 10:40 PM
Actually he doesn't turn 30 until late October.

What a party that should be!!!

Let's hope he that he has a very low key and dull party. ;)

pipes
04-28-2008, 10:42 PM
Let's hope he that he has a very low key and dull party. ;)

No kidding. :cool:

Ziggy
04-28-2008, 10:45 PM
For those draft experts who suggested we spend the #12 on Stewart or Mendenhall and pick up a 2nd or 3rd rate OT in the later rounds, the results of the draft proved that you guys had absolutely no clue what you guys were talking about.



Don't forget R8t8r and Tagger... clueless.


Hahaha. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. You should watch more games and make your own opinions instead of getting all your info off this board. :welcome:

Natureboy, you can make your point on these boards without attacking people. You have some good points, but you'll find that when you present material in a respectful way, people will respect your opinion a whole lot more. Remember that in the end, everyone in here is a Bronco fan. We're on the same team. We root for the same team. We're here because we want to express our opinions and read others opinions about our team. OUR TEAM. Take my advice for what it's worth, but I love this forum. I'd hate to see it soured by bitterness between my Bronco fan brethren.

JONtheBRONCO
04-28-2008, 10:48 PM
Torain

TXBRONC
04-28-2008, 10:50 PM
Torain

He might be a pretty good fit for our offense.

JONtheBRONCO
04-28-2008, 10:54 PM
He might be a pretty good fit for our offense.

I sure hope so. My friend who's a big ASU fan said he killed two years ago. I'm really liking the Broncos draft, very under the radar. Looks like we have guys out to prove something, which only produces on the football field. Don't get me wrong, I hope T-Nasty (Henry) has one hell of a chip on his shoulder. I remember watching the Colts game and was bedazzled by his performance.

Lets get our o-line in shape, then we won't have to worry about who's back there. I feel big things coming out of the Denver backfield in 08. :D

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 10:56 PM
FC I think before Henry injured his knee he was running with power. His biggest problem (on the field) was that he couldn't stay healthy.

That being said I don't think he's going to be able to carry the ball 300 plus times. He needs someone to split carries with him.

This guy knows what he's talking about. I think in this league no matter how good of a back you are, you need another RB to share the load. Defenses are too good and talent is too well distributed within the league. There are no more cupcake defenses or teams in the league anymore like it used to be pre-salary cap.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 11:01 PM
agianst loser defenses he did well last year..

You really think Travis Henry's production went down cause he met better defenses? You don't think his bruised ribs and tweaked knee had and the drug test controversy and his baby mama troubles had anything to do with it?

TXBRONC
04-28-2008, 11:11 PM
I sure hope so. My friend who's a big ASU fan said he killed two years ago. I'm really liking the Broncos draft, very under the radar. Looks like we have guys out to prove something, which only produces on the football field. Don't get me wrong, I hope T-Nasty (Henry) has one hell of a chip on his shoulder. I remember watching the Colts game and was bedazzled by his performance.

Lets get our o-line in shape, then we won't have to worry about who's back there. I feel big things coming out of the Denver backfield in 08. :D

I'm looking foward to seeing what he can do in the preseason.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 11:11 PM
Natureboy, you can make your point on these boards without attacking people. You have some good points, but you'll find that when you present material in a respectful way, people will respect your opinion a whole lot more. Remember that in the end, everyone in here is a Bronco fan. We're on the same team. We root for the same team. We're here because we want to express our opinions and read others opinions about our team. OUR TEAM. Take my advice for what it's worth, but I love this forum. I'd hate to see it soured by bitterness between my Bronco fan brethren.

You're right. Just that r8d8r and Tagger and I had a long debate over OT or RB with the #12 and it's obvious who was correct.

Then as fcspeikit, he's blatantly wrong on his assessment on Travis Henry, I'll break it down later.

Nature Boy
04-28-2008, 11:14 PM
Here's an old read on Henry's situation.

Henry returning with redone deal
Running back accepts revised contract after rough first season with Broncos
By Bill Williamson
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 02/21/2008 12:45:15 AM MST

Broncos running back Travis Henry gained 433 of his 691 yards rushing last season in the first four games. He finished second on the team in rushing. (Hyoung Chang, The Denver Post )

INDIANAPOLIS — The Broncos answered one of their biggest offseason questions by agreeing with embattled running back Travis Henry on a restructured contract that will keep him in Denver.

The new deal gives Henry the opportunity to atone for a miserable first year in Denver. His agent said that was the primary reason for Henry's return.

"Travis wants to make it right in Denver," his agent, Hadley Engelhard, said Wednesday. "That is the big reason why he is back. He thinks it can work there."

Engelhard did not disclose the terms of the restructured deal. Originally, the Broncos would have owed a large portion of a $6 million option bonus to Henry on Feb. 29. Henry still has four years remaining on his contract.

Last March, Henry signed a five-year, $22.5 million deal with Denver after being a salary cap casualty at Tennessee. Henry received a $12 million bonus as part of the contract.

The marriage between Henry and the Broncos started beautifully as he led the NFL in rushing after the first four games of the season. However, things went south.

In early October, word broke of Henry's positive drug test, which could have resulted in a year's suspension. After a 54-day saga, Henry won an appeal with the NFL.

But Henry suffered a series of knee and rib injuries that ruined his season. In the final 12 games, he missed four games and didn't have more than 65 yards in a single game. He didn't have a carry in the season finale against Minnesota.

Back in August, it was disclosed in a Georgia court that Henry had fathered nine children by nine women. Late last month, Henry said his issues wore on him. He said then he wanted to come back to the Broncos to show he could be productive on and off the field. He talked to team officials this month and they were satisfied with what they heard.

"He knows Denver is a good place for him," Engelhard said. "He knows he can be a productive player there."

Henry will work in the backfield with Selvin Young, who had a productive rookie season in 2007.

Henry will likely take the role of the short-field bruising back, while Young offers Denver a breakaway threat.

Bill Williamson: 303-954-1262 or bwilliamson@denverpost.com

DenBronx
04-29-2008, 12:36 AM
yeah im not on that wagon of guys that are freakin out about henry not panning out here in denver. i think henry struggled because of personal distractions, injuries to himself and injuries to the heart and soul of the o-line. then after being out of the loop for so long it was hard for him to get back into the football grove. he has done very well in the past....i'll give him another year before i start calling for his head. i hope he beast it up this year but i do see young and aldridge being tossed in alot as a change of pace.

after all....henry himself feels like he has something to prove. otherwise why else would he so willingly restructure his contract and take a paycut?

oh, and we might as well cut mike bell. no one is stupid enough to throw in a 2011 7th rounder.

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 01:01 AM
You really think Travis Henry's production went down cause he met better defenses? You don't think his bruised ribs and tweaked knee had and the drug test controversy and his baby mama troubles had anything to do with it?

:lol:

"You don't think his bruised ribs and tweaked knee had and the drug test controversy and his baby mama troubles had anything to do with it?"


So just to clarify, your saying he should get a pass because he "only" had "bruised ribs," a "tweaked knee," " drug test controversy" and "baby mama troubles"? Got yeah! :salute:


Also, you really don't believe a RB's #'s go up and down based on the skill level of the defense they are playing against each week? LOL

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 01:10 AM
yeah im not on that wagon of guys that are freakin out about henry not panning out here in denver. i think henry struggled because of personal distractions, injuries to himself and injuries to the heart and soul of the o-line. then after being out of the loop for so long it was hard for him to get back into the football grove. he has done very well in the past....i'll give him another year before i start calling for his head. i hope he beast it up this year but i do see young and aldridge being tossed in alot as a change of pace.

after all....henry himself feels like he has something to prove. otherwise why else would he so willingly restructure his contract and take a paycut?

oh, and we might as well cut mike bell. no one is stupid enough to throw in a 2011 7th rounder.

He's still on the roster, I see no reason to cut him if that's what your talking about? I say as long as he's still here he should get his chance to prove he deserves to play.

We should have an open camp with no starter and let the best back start... If it's Henry then by all means, run Henry run, The other guys better be ready to go in because I don't see him making it the whole season. If he does great, I hope he runs for 1400 yards, 4 yards at a time :D

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 01:18 AM
So just to clarify, your saying he should get a pass because he "only" had "bruised ribs," a "tweaked knee," " drug test controversy" and "baby mama troubles"? Got yeah! :salute:

Also, you really don't believe a RB's #'s go's up and down based on the skill level of the defense they are playing against each week? LOL

What a lousy spin job. Classic sign of someone who just got proven wrong and he comes back with a dime wit spin.

I really shouldn't have to spell this out but here goes cause you don't get it or don't want to. Ofcourse a players #'s will go up and down depending on the level of competition he faces but not so in this case. Travis went from averaging 108 yards per game right out the gate down to 30 yds/game for 8 games after his injuries and off field issues. You're not gonna tell me NFL defenses vary that dramatically are you? It's like night and day. It's ridiculous that I have to even explain this.

And of course I'm saying Travis Henry gets a pass for his 2007 down season. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why, then again, you don't understand it.

10,000 Freakbucks, Travis Henry will be the starting RB barring any unexpected injury. Let me start a poll to see who's currently the odds on favorite to be the starting tail back when the season starts.

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 01:30 AM
What a lousy spin job. Classic sign of someone who just got proven wrong and he comes back with a dime wit spin.

I really shouldn't have to spell this out but here goes cause you don't get it or don't want to. A players #'s will go up and down depending on the level of competition he faces but Travis went from averaging 100+ yards per game down to zilch immediately after his injuries and off field issues. You're not gonna tell me NFL defenses vary that dramatically are you? It's like night and day. It's ridiculous that I have to even explain this.

And of course I'm saying Travis Henry gets a pass for his 2007 down season. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why, then again, you don't understand it.

10,000 Freakbucks, Travis Henry will be the starting RB barring any unexpected injury.

Where did I say that? :confused: He got hurt is why his #'s dropped so "dramatically". The bottom line is when he was putting up all those "Great" #'s he was playing against lousy run D's. Why don't you take a look at what the other NFL backs were doing to those run defenses when they played those teams around the same time we did.


Just out of curiosity, where do you put Henry as far as best backs in the NFL? Top 5? Top 10? Top 15 even?

Tell me you can't look across the league and find 15 backs who would be better starters then Henry... LOL


He might start for us next year, what does that prove? :confused: How many other "good" backs have started for us and put up top of the league #'s?

Here's another one for you, if we wanted to trade Henry right now, what could we get for him? A 4th round pick, if that. :coffee:

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 01:39 AM
Torain

Calm down Cowboy. Being a little optimistic and jumping the gun arn't ya. You're talking about a 5th rounder. Give the Broncos back field some respect wont ya?

As bad as you guys make the Broncos RBs sound, had we had a RB minutely as good as LT is, we'd won the super bowl last year, wouldn't we?

By the way, Torain ran a 4.64sec 40 yd dash. Not saying that means everything but I guess that's why he fell to the 5th round. A good percentage of the Linebackers in the NFL ran a better 40 time than 4.64.

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 01:42 AM
What a lousy spin job. Classic sign of someone who just got proven wrong and he comes back with a dime wit spin.

I really shouldn't have to spell this out but here goes cause you don't get it or don't want to. Ofcourse a players #'s will go up and down depending on the level of competition he faces but not so in this case. Travis went from averaging 108 yards per game right out the gate down to 30 yds/game for 8 games after his injuries and off field issues. You're not gonna tell me NFL defenses vary that dramatically are you? It's like night and day. It's ridiculous that I have to even explain this.

And of course I'm saying Travis Henry gets a pass for his 2007 down season. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why, then again, you don't understand it.

10,000 Freakbucks, Travis Henry will be the starting RB barring any unexpected injury. Let me start a poll to see who's currently the odds on favorite to be the starting tail back when the season starts.


Another thing, in case you don't know, it's not a good thing when a Player is always hurt.

Despite all the off field issues with Henry, they guy is always hurt. What the hell good is he if hes always hurt? How does that help our team win?

That's my point, it's not just 1 or 2 things with Henry, it's a lot to swallow for a guy who at his best isn't even among the best in the league...


Weren't you the one saying how moss was a bust because he got hurt and couldn't play for us? :confused: Now your saying Henry should get a pass for having a lousy season because he was hurt last year?

You even said something about trading Moss, your not willing to give our 1st round pick 1 full year before you give up on him, but your willing to give a guy who has only been able to play 1 full season in the last 5 the benefit of the doubt? LOL

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 02:06 AM
Where did I say that? :confused: He got hurt is why his #'s dropped so "dramatically". The bottom line is when he was putting up all those "Great" #'s he was playing against lousy run D's. Why don't you take a look at what the other NFL backs were doing to those run defenses when they played those teams around the same time we did.


Just out of curiosity, where do you put Henry as far as best backs in the NFL? Top 5? Top 10? Top 15 even?

Tell me you can't look across the league and find 15 backs who would be better starters then Henry... LOL


He might start for us next year, what does that prove? :confused: How many other "good" backs have started for us and put up top of the league #'s?

Here's another one for you, if we wanted to trade Henry right now, what could we get for him? A 4th round pick, if that. :coffee:

Wow you're smart, you don't even understand what you insinuated with what you said yourself. It's like debating with a rock. You purposely ignore the obvious but point out the insignificant.

You ask me how I rate Henry compared to the other backs in the league? In my opinion, I say Henry is a top 10 or better back in this league. Obviously his #'s in 2007 wont reflect that so save yourself a few brain cells and don't point it out as your rebuttal. If you really want to make a comparison, compare Henry's stats his whole career to those of his peers that are comparable to him. Get a list of guys that were drafted around 2000-2003, as Henry was drafted in 2001. Mind you, Henry played for 2 lousy teams the Bills and the Titans.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 02:40 AM
That's my point, it's not just 1 or 2 things with Henry, it's a lot to swallow for a guy who at his best isn't even among the best in the league...


Weren't you the one saying how moss was a bust because he got hurt and couldn't play for us? :confused: Now your saying Henry should get a pass for having a lousy season because he was hurt last year?

You even said something about trading Moss, your not willing to give our 1st round pick 1 full year before you give up on him, but your willing to give a guy who has only been able to play 1 full season in the last 5 the benefit of the doubt? LOL

He's definitely not immune to injuries due to his hard nose running but he did complete 4 full seasons of 7 since 2001.

2001: 729 yards and 4TDs rookie, only 13 games
2002: 1438 yards and 13TDs 16 games
2003: 1356 yards and 10TDs 15 games
2004: injury season
2005: backed up Chris Brown
2006: 1211 yards and 7 Tds 13 of 14 games started
2007: Broncos injured RB, 2nd in yards despite

Now I don't know about you but I think those numbers are not too shabby. Considering how lousy Buffalo and Tenn's O-Line is. If the Broncos are able to fix their O-line this season as I think they will, Henry will have another break out year. I'm thinking close to 1500 yards and 10+ TDs.

Now, about ole Jarvis. Moss played in 6 games, started 1, recorded 12 tackles and 1 sack in those 6 games. Maybe I'm jumping the gun but he looks like a bust to me.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 02:45 AM
Calm down Cowboy. Being a little optimistic and jumping the gun arn't ya. You're talking about a 5th rounder. Give the Broncos back field some respect wont ya?

As bad as you guys make the Broncos RBs sound, if we had a RB minutely as good as LT is, we'll win the super bowl wont we?

By the way, Torain ran a 4.64sec 40 yd dash. Not saying that means everything but I guess that's why he fell to the 5th round. A good percentage of the Linebackers in the NFL ran a better 40 time than 4.64.

According to NFL Draft Scout, Torain has run a 4.52.

http://www.darrenmcfadden.org/darren-mcfadden-news06212007.php


Oh yes, while I'm thinking about it, when you're talking about Terrell Davis,
you're talking about a 6th rounder. When you're talking about Shannon
Sharpe, you're talking about a 7th rounder. When you're talking about Rod
Smith, you're talking about someone who wasn't even drafted.

One more thing . . . Shanny expressed that he thought Torain is a first-
round talent. :coffee:

-----

DenBronx
04-29-2008, 02:49 AM
According to NFL Draft Scout, Torain has run a 4.52.

http://www.darrenmcfadden.org/darren-mcfadden-news06212007.php

-----

:listen: without pads i bet he runs a 4.51

topscribe
04-29-2008, 02:51 AM
Another thing, in case you don't know, it's not a good thing when a Player is always hurt.

Despite all the off field issues with Henry, they guy is always hurt. What the hell good is he if hes always hurt? How does that help our team win?

That's my point, it's not just 1 or 2 things with Henry, it's a lot to swallow for a guy who at his best isn't even among the best in the league...


Weren't you the one saying how moss was a bust because he got hurt and couldn't play for us? :confused: Now your saying Henry should get a pass for having a lousy season because he was hurt last year?

You even said something about trading Moss, your not willing to give our 1st round pick 1 full year before you give up on him, but your willing to give a guy who has only been able to play 1 full season in the last 5 the benefit of the doubt? LOL

When healthy, Henry is very much among the best in the league, my friend.
That's why they paid him the big bucks to come here in the first place. He
showed he was among the best when he was healthy: he led the league in
rushing.

-----

DenBronx
04-29-2008, 02:52 AM
According to NFL Draft Scout, Torain has run a 4.52.

http://www.darrenmcfadden.org/darren-mcfadden-news06212007.php


Oh yes, while I'm thinking about it, when you're talking about Terrell Davis,
you're talking about a 6th rounder. When you're talking about Shannon
Sharpe, you're talking about a 7th rounder. When you're talking about Rod
Smith, you're talking about someone who wasn't even drafted.

One more thing . . . Shanny expressed that he thought Torain is a first-
round talent. :coffee:

-----


i'll take shanahans judgement over a mighty blogger anyday of the millenium

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 03:11 AM
Come on, Henry isn't that good! He might be our starting RB at the start of the year but forgive me for not being overly excited about it.

At his best last year he looked like Mike Anderson. He is slow and he doesn't have that much power. He is one dimensional big time! No one fears Henry. He is just another back.

I am glad we got Clady with our 12th but I really hope one of our other guys steps up and takes the job away from Henry, At least after Young came in we had excitement in our backfield again, There is no excitement knowing Henry is our starting RB.

All he is is a work horse and he couldn't even do that. Now we're talking about limiting his carries because he can't carry the load. It's like having Tatum Bell without the game changing speed.

I hope he proves me wrong next year but I doubt it...


1st reason I said you don't know what you are talking about. Henry is nothing like Mike Anderson.
MA is a 6' and 230lb brute who runs upright with very little wiggle.
Travis Henry is 5'9'' and 230lbs, runs low, quick, plenty of shake, cuts well and perfect for our 1 cut system. He's also deceptively fast.

You say Henry has no excitement. Apparently you forget to watch the 1st 3-4 games last year.

You say he doesn't scare anyone defenses but I've never seen anyone break tackle after tackle the way he did. Mike Shanahan was awed by it and so was I.
I forget who it was, either Gold or Webster who said Travis Henry is the hardest guy to bring down and they hated having to do so cause it hurts.

Stargazer
04-29-2008, 03:14 AM
He's definitely not immune to injuries due to his hard nose running but he did complete 4 full seasons of 7 since 2001.

2001: 729 yards and 4TDs rookie, only 13 games
2002: 1438 yards and 13TDs 16 games
2003: 1356 yards and 10TDs 15 games
2004: injury season
2005: backed up Chris Brown
2006: 1211 yards and 7 Tds 13 of 14 games started
2007: Broncos injured RB, 2nd in yards despite

Now I don't know about you but I think those numbers are not too shabby..

Henry played 1 full season only 1 time.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 03:23 AM
Henry played 1 full season only 1 time.

Well, let's hope for a second such season this next year because, if he does
stay healthy, he'll make us forget Stewart for one year.

-----

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 03:27 AM
According to NFL Draft Scout, Torain has run a 4.52.

http://www.darrenmcfadden.org/darren-mcfadden-news06212007.php


Oh yes, while I'm thinking about it, when you're talking about Terrell Davis,
you're talking about a 6th rounder. When you're talking about Shannon
Sharpe, you're talking about a 7th rounder. When you're talking about Rod
Smith, you're talking about someone who wasn't even drafted.

One more thing . . . Shanny expressed that he thought Torain is a first-
round talent. :coffee:

-----

Torain ran a 4.64sec 40 dash at this year's combine. Maybe he was just rusty or maybe he bulked up a little too much for the combine at 222lbs.

I'm not counting Torain out at all. All I'm saying is let's not get ahead of ourselves and pencil Torain in as our starter 1 day after being drafted. Yes, I'm aware of Davis, Sharpe, Smith... yada yada yada... but for every Davis or Sharpe, a few dozen of them late round draft picks don't even make the roster.

I've got my fingers crossed for all our rookies but over the years, I've learned not to get my hopes up, especially the late rounders and you all know why. San Luis, the Charger fan in the other room, pointed out that the Broncos are ranked 31st of 32 teams by Foxsports.com in terms of draft success the last 5-6 years.

Stargazer
04-29-2008, 03:36 AM
Well, let's hope for a second such season this next year because, if he does
stay healthy, he'll make us forget Stewart for one year.

-----

Since this is what the team is counting on this upcoming season, you're damn right hoping he can make it healthy and play 16 games. I just hope he can stay healthy this year and play atleast 16 games.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 03:40 AM
He's definitely not immune to injuries due to his hard nose running but he did complete 4 full seasons of 7 since 2001.

2001: 729 yards and 4TDs rookie, only 13 games
2002: 1438 yards and 13TDs 16 games
2003: 1356 yards and 10TDs 15 games
2004: injury season
2005: backed up Chris Brown
2006: 1211 yards and 7 Tds 13 of 14 games started
2007: Broncos injured RB, 2nd in yards despite

Now I don't know about you but I think those numbers are not too shabby. Considering how lousy Buffalo and Tenn's O-Line is. If the Broncos are able to fix their O-line this season as I think they will, Henry will have another break out year. I'm thinking close to 1500 yards and 10+ TDs.

Now, about ole Jarvis. Moss played in 6 games, started 1, recorded 12 tackles and 1 sack in those 6 games. Maybe I'm jumping the gun but he looks like a bust to me.


Henry played 1 full season only 1 time.


I don't know about you but I'll go ahead and call 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2006 full seasons. 13-14 of 16 games in my opinion is full enough.
Pull the career of any great RB and I'll guarantee you their career is dotted with seasons where they missed 1 or 2 games either due to injury, suspension of some sort, personal or sat out right cause the seedings were clinched or whatever reason.

Man, it's like trying to teach a kindergartener to read and write with you guys.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 03:45 AM
Well, let's hope for a second such season this next year because, if he does
stay healthy, he'll make us forget Stewart for one year.

-----

Are you still talking about Stewart? We just drafted maybe the best LT in a draft that was studded with OTs.

Check the other thread I started that explained how Clady was such the right selection.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 03:46 AM
Torain ran a 4.64sec 40 dash at this year's combine. Maybe he was just rusty or maybe he bulked up a little too much for the combine at 222lbs.

I'm not counting Torain out at all. All I'm saying is let's not get ahead of ourselves and pencil Torain in as our starter 1 day after being drafted. Yes, I'm aware of Davis, Sharpe, Smith... yada yada yada... but for every Davis or Sharpe, a few dozen of them late round draft picks don't even make the roster.

I've got my fingers crossed for all our rookies but over the years, I've learned not to get my hopes up for our rookie draft picks, especially the late rounders and you all know why. San Luis, the Charger fan in the other room, pointed out that the Broncos are ranked 31st of 32 teams by Foxsports.com in terms of draft success the last 5-6 years.

My friend Sanluis, the Charger fan. (We go back a long way from Mania.)
Did you catch those last two words?

Now, I would have to see Foxsports' report for myself, and I would need to
evaluate the criteria by which they went to understand how they came to
that conclusion. Because I find it hard to believe that drafts that produced
the likes of Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Dumervil,
D.J. Williams, Darrent Williams, Foxworth, Paymah, Myers, Harris, Putzier,
and Kuper (and others I may have missed) would rank next to last in the
league.

Now, such a one might have an argument for the years 2001-2004, but
those years are fading into the past. It is 2008 now. Or should we go ahead
and discuss 1960 while we're at it?

Nonetheless, I find it necessary once again to remind you that TD, Sharpe,
Lepsis, and Nalen were late rounders, and Rod Smith was a UDFA. It is
ridiculous to keep hearing that "[insert player's name here] was a
[4th/5th/6th/7th] rounder for a reason." I guess Terrell Davis was a 6th
rounder for a reason, wasn't he? Come to think of it, do you realize Tom
Brady was a 6th rounder?

I would rather go by what Shanny said, that he thinks Torain is a first-
round caliber talent.

-----

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 03:48 AM
3 things:

1.) He just turned 30. There is plenty of life in 30 yr old legs. We're not franchising the guy. If we can get 2 more yrs out of him, which I think we will, we've scored.

2.) I think Henry is pretty darn bright on the field. He is a hell of a pass blocker. He sells screens better than most backs in the league. He isn't that bad of a WR on the dump pass. What more do you want from a RB? As long as what he does off the field doesn't keep him off the field, that is his business. Why do you care? Last I checked, smoking weed was a pretty peaceful thing.

3.) Risk? What risk? We already paid him his bonus money. That was the risk, no more. Now Bowlen just needs to get his money's worth.

I think I covered all your grounds Wookie.

30 years old is a dangerous age for a Running back. People say " Yeah he's 30, but he hasn't carried the ball that much in his career". The thing is, he hasn't carried the ball that much because he's been INJURED most of his career. Listen to this, Only one running back last season that was aged 30 or over ran for over 1,000 yards. That running back was Fred Taylor. How can you defend yourself from that stat?

I won't deny that he's a good blocker, but he seems to take hits that he really doesn't need to take. I'm not saying he's as stupid on the field as he is in real life (because then he'd pull out a racket and try to serve the ball) but he's not the brightest player either. Sure, he's a physical inside runner, but when a hit really doesn't need to be taken, why take it? You know you are injury prone, stay clear of it.

The risk is putting our faith in him. We are putting our faith in a guy that doesn't deserve it.

It looks like I've covered all of your grounds.

Stargazer
04-29-2008, 03:49 AM
I don't know about you but I'll go ahead and call 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2006 full seasons. 13-14 of 16 games in my opinion is full enough.
Pull the career of any great RB and I'll guarantee you their career is dotted with seasons where they missed 1 or 2 games either due to injury, suspension of some sort, personal or they were just sat out right cause the seedings were clinched or whatever reason.

Man, it's like trying to teach a kindergartener to read and write with you guys.

I don't agree with you. 16 games in a season played is 16 games. He has done it only once(2002). And that is 1 game out of 7 seasons. That is not good no matter how you look at it.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 03:50 AM
Are you still talking about Stewart? We just drafted maybe the best LT in a draft that was studded with OTs.

Check the other thread I started that explained how Clady was such the right selection.

It would be a good idea to brush up on your reading comprehension.

Then go back and re-read what I wrote.

-----

topscribe
04-29-2008, 03:51 AM
30 years old is a dangerous age for a Running back. People say " Yeah he's 30, but he hasn't carried the ball that much in his career". The thing is, he hasn't carried the ball that much because he's been INJURED most of his career. Listen to this, Only one running back last season that was aged 30 or over ran for over 1,000 yards. That running back was Fred Taylor. How can you defend yourself from that stat?

I won't deny that he's a good blocker, but he seems to take hits that he really doesn't need to take. I'm not saying he's as stupid on the field as he is in real life (because then he'd pull out a racket and try to serve the ball) but he's not the brightest player either. Sure, he's a physical inside runner, but when a hit really doesn't need to be taken, why take it? You know you are injury prone, stay clear of it.

The risk is putting our faith in him. We are putting our faith in a guy that doesn't deserve it.

It looks like I've covered all of your grounds.

Mike Anderson did it the year before.

How old was he again?

-----

Ziggy
04-29-2008, 03:57 AM
I have no clue why so many people put so much stock in 40 times. It's a time that is run in shorts with no pads, and has more to do with speed than quickness. Not football speed mind you. Speed in shorts and a t-shirt. Torian ran a 4.6. Who cares? Terell Davis ran a 4.7 Ray Lewis ran a 4.8 Emmit Smith ran a 4.56 and a 4.71 yadda yadda yadda....40 times don't always translate to football speed. Put down the stopwatch and look at some game film.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 04:01 AM
I have no clue why so many people put so much stock in 40 times. It's a time that is run in shorts with no pads, and has more to do with speed than quickness. Not football speed mind you. Speed in shorts and a t-shirt. Torian ran a 4.6. Who cares? Terell Davis ran a 4.7 Ray Lewis ran a 4.8 Emmit Smith ran a 4.56 and a 4.71 yadda yadda yadda....40 times don't always translate to football speed. Put down the stopwatch and look at some game film.

BINGO!! :2thumbs:

Actually, Bobby Turner said he largely ignores the 40 times for backs, that the
10-yard times are actually more valuable, but then their playing speed is even
more important, and you don't see that until they're running around in pads.

There's a guy who knows what he's talking about . . . the running backs
coach, as you know.

P.S. I don't remember seeing ol' 4.7 Terrell Davis being run down from
behind, do you?

-----

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 04:12 AM
Mike Anderson did it the year before.

How old was he again?

-----

Actually it was two years before.

All I'm saying that 30 is a bad age for running backs. If he can come in this season and do well in a rotation with Selvin Young, then I'll be happy. The most important thing is that he stays HEALTHY and free of things that could get him suspended. The season after we will need to have a new running back.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 04:16 AM
Now, I would have to see Foxsports' report for myself, and I would need to
evaluate the criteria by which they went to understand how they came to
that conclusion. Because I find it hard to believe that drafts that produced
the likes of Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Dumervil,
D.J. Williams, Darrent Williams, Foxworth, Paymah, Myers, Harris, Putzier,
and Kuper (and others I may have missed) would rank next to last in the
league.

Now, such a one might have an argument for the years 2001-2004, but
those years are fading into the past. It is 2008 now. Or should we go ahead
and discuss 1960 while we're at it?

Nonetheless, I find it necessary once again to remind you that TD, Sharpe,
Lepsis, and Nalen were late rounders, and Rod Smith was a UDFA. It is
ridiculous to keep hearing that "[insert player's name here] was a
[4th/5th/6th/7th] rounder for a reason." I guess Terrell Davis was a 6th
rounder for a reason, wasn't he? Come to think of it, do you realize Tom
Brady was a 6th rounder?

I would rather go by what Shanny said, that he thinks Torain is a first-
round caliber talent.

-----

It's 2003 to 2007 or 5 years back. 5 yrs is perfect as a 2003 pick would be in his prime.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8068754/Five-year-draft-rankings:-Teams-25-32

Once again, of every Davis, Sharpe or Smith, at least 50-60 late rd pick and UFAs don't even make a roster. And of the ones that do make a roster, 1 in 100 or more plays to the level of Davis, Sharpe or Smith. There is always that diamond in the rough, everyone knows that.

I'm high on Torain too and I believe what Coach says about Torain being a 1st round caliber, but he also said great things about Terry Pierce, Darius Watts... and yada yada yada...

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 04:19 AM
I have no clue why so many people put so much stock in 40 times. It's a time that is run in shorts with no pads, and has more to do with speed than quickness. Not football speed mind you. Speed in shorts and a t-shirt. Torian ran a 4.6. Who cares? Terell Davis ran a 4.7 Ray Lewis ran a 4.8 Emmit Smith ran a 4.56 and a 4.71 yadda yadda yadda....40 times don't always translate to football speed. Put down the stopwatch and look at some game film.

I agree completely.

40 Times mean nothing apart from how fast a guy can run with no pads, whilst on a specific diet and on a track.

Some players eat specifically so they run faster at the 40, but that's not the same speed they will be running at on a field with pads on.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 04:20 AM
It's 2003 to 2007 or 5 years back. 5 yrs is perfect as a 2003 pick would be in his prime.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8068754/Five-year-draft-rankings:-Teams-25-32

Once again, of every Davis, Sharpe or Smith, at least 50-60 late rd pick and UFAs don't even make a roster. And of the ones that do make a roster, 1 in 100 or more plays to the level of Davis, Sharpe or Smith. There is always that diamond in the rough, everyone knows that.

I'm high on Torain too and I believe what Coach says about Torain being a 1st round caliber, but he also said great things about Terry Pierce, Darius Watts... and yada yada yada...

Well, if this guy is including the years 2005-2007, then he is a blithering
idiot. That's all I can say.

And I brought up those successful late rounders because you seemed to
base your apparent prediction of mediocrity for Torain on his draft order.
I was pointing out that it is not a reliable criterion for that.

Frankly, I don't know why I have to explain all this . . .

-----

topscribe
04-29-2008, 04:23 AM
Actually it was two years before.

All I'm saying that 30 is a bad age for running backs. If he can come in this season and do well in a rotation with Selvin Young, then I'll be happy. The most important thing is that he stays HEALTHY and free of things that could get him suspended. The season after we will need to have a new running back.

Yes, I believe that following the 2008 season we'll see a changing of the
guard. However, we just might have that new guard in he form of Torain and
Young. At any rate, the Broncos have this year to find out.

-----

Ziggy
04-29-2008, 04:26 AM
Well, if this guy is including the years 2005-2007, then he is a blithering
idiot. That's all I can say.
And I brought up those successful late rounders because you seemed to
base your apparent prediction of mediocrity for Torain on his draft order.
I was pointing out that it is not a reliable criterion for that.

Frankly, I don't know why I have to explain all this . . .

-----

I still think the 2006 may go down as the greatest draft in Broncos history.

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 04:35 AM
I still think the 2006 may go down as the greatest draft in Broncos history.

That draft was magical.

I also think the 2007 draft will go down as one of the best. I think we drafted 4 starters in 2007. I really think that Jarvis Moss will be leading the league in sacks in a few years, he's very similar to Jason Taylor apart from the fact he now weighs more. Tim Crowder is very solid, he's a better all round player than Jarvis. Ryan Harris we haven't heard much of but his College career showed much promise. Then there's Marcus Thomas, a guy who was our best DT last year (that's not saying much). Still, Marcus looked very good last year and he's a guy who can definitely be our DT for the next 10 years. Remember, DT's usually don't develop untill 2-3 years (sometimes longer) into their NFL career.

I think we've got two good drafts from Shanny and co.

This years draft is widely unproven. I think we went for the right positions but not always the right players. We've gone for high character guys though, guys that could just pull a suprise. I mean, I was annoyed at the Eddie Royal pick. When you read more into Eddie Royal though and watch more highlights of him, you see where Shanahan was going with his pick.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 04:36 AM
30 years old is a dangerous age for a Running back. People say " Yeah he's 30, but he hasn't carried the ball that much in his career". The thing is, he hasn't carried the ball that much because he's been INJURED most of his career. Listen to this, Only one running back last season that was aged 30 or over ran for over 1,000 yards. That running back was Fred Taylor. How can you defend yourself from that stat?

I won't deny that he's a good blocker, but he seems to take hits that he really doesn't need to take. I'm not saying he's as stupid on the field as he is in real life (because then he'd pull out a racket and try to serve the ball) but he's not the brightest player either. Sure, he's a physical inside runner, but when a hit really doesn't need to be taken, why take it? You know you are injury prone, stay clear of it.

The risk is putting our faith in him. We are putting our faith in a guy that doesn't deserve it.

It looks like I've covered all of your grounds.

Priest Holmes was MVP when he was 29.5yrs old. Was 30yrs old when he broke Marshall Faulk's then TD record. Shaun Alexander was 29.5yrs old when he broke Holmes' record in 2005 and was MVP as well. Emmitt Smith played well into his twilight years. So did Curtis Martin and the list goes on and on.

By the way, Travis Henry is only 29yrs old right now. He turns 30 around November. Does a half year really matter? Is there an on/off that flips the minute you hit 30? Don't they say a man's physical prime is 29?

Anyways, we only need Travis Henry to crank out 2 more years, 3 if we are lucky.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 04:41 AM
I still think the 2006 may go down as the greatest draft in Broncos history.

Well, there's the 1973 draft that brought us Otis Armstrong, Barney Chavous,
Paul Howard, Tom Jackson, John Grant, and Lyle Blackwood.

Then there was the 1975 draft that brought in Louis Wright, Rick Upchurch,
Rubin Carter, and Steve Foley.

Those drafts, BTW, were together the cornerstone for our 1977 run to the
Super Bowl.

But that 2006 draft just may end up ranking right up there with them.

Encouraging, isn't it?

-----

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 04:44 AM
I don't agree with you. 16 games in a season played is 16 games. He has done it only once(2002). And that is 1 game out of 7 seasons. That is not good no matter how you look at it.

I'm not gonna split hairs with you. If it's somewhere in the ball park, it's good.

For instance, when a star player is sat out the last game of the season cause home field and everything in the post season is clinched, does that also mean he did not play a full season? Elway, Davis, Smith, Sharpe and most those guys in the 1998 season didn't play their final game before the playoffs. Does that mean they didn't play the full season?

Come on Star, if I said the cat has spots, don't ask me how many.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 04:54 AM
I have no clue why so many people put so much stock in 40 times. It's a time that is run in shorts with no pads, and has more to do with speed than quickness. Not football speed mind you. Speed in shorts and a t-shirt. Torian ran a 4.6. Who cares? Terell Davis ran a 4.7 Ray Lewis ran a 4.8 Emmit Smith ran a 4.56 and a 4.71 yadda yadda yadda....40 times don't always translate to football speed. Put down the stopwatch and look at some game film.

Well for quickness and change of directions, there are shuffle and cone drills.
But I agree with you, speed and quickness is just half of it. There are intangibles such as football smarts, aggression and others that can't be measured. But since you can measure speed and quickness, I guess that's why they put so much into something like the 40 yard dash. And you know what they say is the difference in the NFL... speed! speed! speed!

For the guys that don't have the super human physical abilities, that is why teams have practice squads for those UFAs and drafted drop outs. If a player can play, I'm sure he'll make himself noticed. Rod Smith...

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 04:56 AM
P.S. I don't remember seeing ol' 4.7 Terrell Davis being run down from
behind, do you?

-----

I have, many a times by corners. He runs and runs til his angle takes him out of bounds.

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 05:00 AM
Priest Holmes was MVP when he was 29.5yrs old. Was 30yrs old when broke Marshall Faulk's then TD record. Shaun Alexander was 29.5yrs old when he broke Holmes' record in 2005 and was MVP as well. Emmitt Smith played well into his twilight years. So did Curtis Martin and the list goes on and on.

By the way, Travis Henry is only 29yrs old right now. He turns 30 around November. Does a half year really matter? Is there an on/off that flips the minute you hit 30? Don't they say a man's physical prime is 29?

Anyways, we only need Travis Henry to crank out 2 more years, 3 if we are lucky.

Listen to what you are doing right now. You are comparing TRAVIS HENRY ( a good NFL running back, but not a great one) to Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk and Emmitt Smith.

These guys are legendary, Travis Henry is not and will never be. It's clear you are a Travis Henry fan, but don't let your fandom cloud your judgement.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 05:02 AM
I still think the 2006 may go down as the greatest draft in Broncos history.

Wow, that is really going out on a limb there.

I say the Broncos greatest draft class was 1983. Don't ask me why.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 05:06 AM
And I brought up those successful late rounders because you seemed to
base your apparent prediction of mediocrity for Torain on his draft order.
I was pointing out that it is not a reliable criterion for that.

-----

I'm not saying Torain sucks cause I havn't seen him in a Broncos uni and pads yet. All I'm saying is, let's not pencil him in as the starter or get your hopes up too high. 100 5th rounders will fail before one is a hit.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 05:23 AM
I'm not saying Torain sucks cause I havn't seen in a Broncos uni and pads yet. All I'm saying is, let's not pencil him in as the starter or get your hopes up too high. 100 5th rounders will fail before one is a hit.

Yes, and I think you're sitting in the middle of some old-timers here who very well know that.

-----

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 05:25 AM
30 years old is a dangerous age for a Running back. People say " Yeah he's 30, but he hasn't carried the ball that much in his career". The thing is, he hasn't carried the ball that much because he's been INJURED most of his career. Listen to this, Only one running back last season that was aged 30 or over ran for over 1,000 yards. That running back was Fred Taylor. How can you defend yourself from that stat?

I won't deny that he's a good blocker, but he seems to take hits that he really doesn't need to take. I'm not saying he's as stupid on the field as he is in real life (because then he'd pull out a racket and try to serve the ball) but he's not the brightest player either. Sure, he's a physical inside runner, but when a hit really doesn't need to be taken, why take it? You know you are injury prone, stay clear of it.

The risk is putting our faith in him. We are putting our faith in a guy that doesn't deserve it.

It looks like I've covered all of your grounds.


Priest Holmes was MVP when he was 29.5yrs old. Was 30yrs old when broke Marshall Faulk's then TD record. Shaun Alexander was 29.5yrs old when he broke Holmes' record in 2005 and was MVP as well. Emmitt Smith played well into his twilight years. So did Curtis Martin and the list goes on and on.

By the way, Travis Henry is only 29yrs old right now. He turns 30 around November. Does a half year really matter? Is there an on/off that flips the minute you hit 30? Don't they say a man's physical prime is 29?

Anyways, we only need Travis Henry to crank out 2 more years, 3 if we are lucky.


Listen to what you are doing right now. You are comparing TRAVIS HENRY ( a good NFL running back, but not a great one) to Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk and Emmitt Smith.

These guys are legendary, Travis Henry is not and will never be. It's clear you are a Travis Henry fan, but don't let your fandom cloud your judgement.

No, look at the volleying post above. I'm only covering what you said about how 30yr old RBs arn't any good cause last season only 1 RB, Fred Taylor got 1000 yrds. So I'm pointing out how Holmes and Alexander were MVPs at 29-30yrs old just a couple seasons ago.

The only thing I'm comparing of Henry to Holmes and Alexander is their age and what those guys did at 30. I never said Henry is as good as them or he'll get an MVP at 30. I'm just saying don't count out a RB just cause they're 30 or are about to turn 30.

grounds covered?

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 07:33 AM
He's still on the roster, I see no reason to cut him if that's what your talking about? I say as long as he's still here he should get his chance to prove he deserves to play.

We should have an open camp with no starter and let the best back start... If it's Henry then by all means, run Henry run, The other guys better be ready to go in because I don't see him making it the whole season. If he does great, I hope he runs for 1400 yards, 4 yards at a time :D


I knew you were level headed about these things. :salute:

As far open camp I'm not sure that will be necessary. I would say let Henry be the assumed starter, because no matter what Torain is going to get a long look in camp and unless does something really stupid on or off the field he'll at least make the 53 man roster. I suspect if he preforms well he'll be no worse than second on the depth chart.

Tned
04-29-2008, 07:44 AM
I knew you were level headed about these things. :salute:

As far open camp I'm not sure that will be necessary. I would say let Henry be the assumed starter, because no matter what Torain is going to get a long look in camp and unless does something really stupid on or off the field he'll at least make the 53 man roster. I suspect if he preforms well he'll be no worse than second on the depth chart.

I tend to think that the season (well training camp/preseason) will start with Henry number 1 and Young as the change of pace back, with Torain fighting for the number three spot and with Hillis and Sapp as FB's and possibly short yardage guys.

Now, it is possible that preseason could really shake things up. Torain could win a starting job, as could Hillis, but then again, Henry could run like he did the first couple games of last year and then no matter how well the others play, it would be Henry's job.

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 07:47 AM
No, look at the volleying post above. I'm only covering what you said about how 30yr old RBs arn't any good cause last season only 1 RB, Fred Taylor got 1000 yrds. So I'm pointing out how Holmes and Alexander were MVPs at 29-30yrs old just a couple seasons ago.

The only thing I'm comparing of Henry to Holmes and Alexander is their age and what those guys did at 30. I never said Henry is as good as them or he'll get an MVP at 30. I'm just saying don't count out a RB just cause they 30 or are about to turn 30.

grounds covered?

I'm not saying a running back CAN'T be good if he's over 30. What I'm saying is that Running Backs who are 30 years old or older usually do not have productive seasons. All I'm saying is that a 30 year old running back, who's been no stranger to injuries at all should not be counted as a safe bet.

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 07:51 AM
I tend to think that the season (well training camp/preseason) will start with Henry number 1 and Young as the change of pace back, with Torain fighting for the number three spot and with Hillis and Sapp as FB's and possibly short yardage guys.

Now, it is possible that preseason could really shake things up. Torain could win a starting job, as could Hillis, but then again, Henry could run like he did the first couple games of last year and then no matter how well the others play, it would be Henry's job.

I don't think Shanahan will give Torain the starting job no matter how well he plays. He could win the starting job during the season IF he plays amazingly. Shanahan knows the putting the ball in the hands of a rookie when you've got an experienced back and a good young guy is not the wisest thing. If Torain plays well, he'll get a fair share of the ball and Shanahan will build up the ammount of carries he gets.

This is all assuming that Torain turns out to be a really good player and not a 5th round no body who gets cut in Training Camp.

Tned
04-29-2008, 07:53 AM
I don't think Shanahan will give Torain the starting job no matter how well he plays. He could win the starting job during the season IF he plays amazingly. Shanahan knows the putting the ball in the hands of a rookie when you've got an experienced back and a good young guy is not the wisest thing. If Torain plays well, he'll get a fair share of the ball and Shanahan will build up the ammount of carries he gets.

This is all assuming that Torain turns out to be a really good player and not a 5th round no body who gets cut in Training Camp.

Shanahan has shown that he will put the ball in the hands of a rookie if the rookie wins it. He has done it before. However, Torain won't be given the job, he probably won't even be given a lot of reps, so he will have to really excel with the reps he is given, and then it is possible.

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 07:54 AM
Shanahan has shown that he will put the ball in the hands of a rookie if the rookie wins it. He has done it before. However, Torain won't be given the job, he probably won't even be given a lot of reps, so he will have to really excel with the reps he is given, and then it is possible.

I know Shanahan has shown that he is not scared of giving the ball to a rookie. It's just I think with Henry's experience (mostly on the sideline with the trainer) and Slevin Youngs impressive rookie year, that they will be on the favoured list at the moment.

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 08:05 AM
I tend to think that the season (well training camp/preseason) will start with Henry number 1 and Young as the change of pace back, with Torain fighting for the number three spot and with Hillis and Sapp as FB's and possibly short yardage guys.

Now, it is possible that preseason could really shake things up. Torain could win a starting job, as could Hillis, but then again, Henry could run like he did the first couple games of last year and then no matter how well the others play, it would be Henry's job.

Agreed if Henry runs like he did the first few games of last season he'll remain the starter.

LRtagger
04-29-2008, 09:01 AM
Yes, I keep hearing that, mainly from the same people.

It doesn't matter whom Henry ran against: they were all pros. He did it
consistently, one game after another. He did it elsewhere against good and
"bad" teams. He is a good runner, or they would not have brought him here
with that bonus. Probably the best way I know, however, is that I watched
him play . . . he is good. Period.

-----

Well I would hope so...he is a PRO after all. But the defenses he faced were not equal. Our defense consisted of PROS, but we gave up 120 yards rushing per game.

Go back and watch the Jax game. Henry was terrible against a GOOD defense.

This thread is stupid...it doesnt disprove a thing. Just because we drafted Clady and not a back doesnt mean Henry is going to run for 1200 yards. I hope that he does, but it still doesnt mean we wont need a replacement back next year or the year after. Obviously Stewart was THAT good since he went 13th to the Panthers.

You act as if Mike has never made any draft mistakes before. Drafting Clady doesnt automatically make Henry an all-pro back. If he can stay healthy, yes he is a good back and should have a good season...the point is, that is a huge IF

Ziggy
04-29-2008, 11:40 AM
I think the wildcard this year is Andre Hall. Let's not forget that he was constantly being pointed out as one of the big surprises of camp last year until he was injured. When he did get into the game, he had a 4.9 ypc average with 2 TD's in very limited time. He could sneak up on some people. For guys like Torian, Hall, and Young, it may come down to who stands out the most on special teams. Regardless of who starts, the RB position will be fun to watch throughout camp and preseason.

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 11:45 AM
I think the wildcard this year is Andre Hall. Let's not forget that he was constantly being pointed out as one of the big surprises of camp last year until he was injured. When he did get into the game, he had a 4.9 ypc average with 2 TD's in very limited time. He could sneak up on some people. For guys like Torian, Hall, and Young, it may come down to who stands out the most on special teams. Regardless of who starts, the RB position will be fun to watch throughout camp and preseason.

From what I have read Shanahan doesn't see Hall as back who could carry the load for an entire season. If I remember correctly he too ended up getting nicked up when he saw more extensive action near end of last season.

Tned
04-29-2008, 12:22 PM
I think the wildcard this year is Andre Hall. Let's not forget that he was constantly being pointed out as one of the big surprises of camp last year until he was injured. When he did get into the game, he had a 4.9 ypc average with 2 TD's in very limited time. He could sneak up on some people. For guys like Torian, Hall, and Young, it may come down to who stands out the most on special teams. Regardless of who starts, the RB position will be fun to watch throughout camp and preseason.

You could be right. However, I think he will have to have an impressive training camp to remain on the roster. With torain and Hillis (assuming they stick) along with Henry and Young, that only leaves one spot, and I think Sapp at FB/RB is the most likely for the 5th RB spot. right now it looks like Bell and Hall are on the outside looking in.

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 12:39 PM
You could be right. However, I think he will have to have an impressive training camp to remain on the roster. With torain and Hillis (assuming they stick) along with Henry and Young, that only leaves one spot, and I think Sapp at FB/RB is the most likely for the 5th RB spot. right now it looks like Bell and Hall are on the outside looking in.

I think you're right T. It looks like Bell and Hall have bigger mountains to climb than the other backs.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 01:47 PM
I tend to think that the season (well training camp/preseason) will start with Henry number 1 and Young as the change of pace back, with Torain fighting for the number three spot and with Hillis and Sapp as FB's and possibly short yardage guys.

Now, it is possible that preseason could really shake things up. Torain could win a starting job, as could Hillis, but then again, Henry could run like he did the first couple games of last year and then no matter how well the others play, it would be Henry's job.

. . . or Young could rip off two or three of his 35-yarders and become starter . . .


Not a prediction, just another scenario. ;)

-----

Ziggy
04-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Wow, that is really going out on a limb there.

I say the Broncos greatest draft class was 1983. Don't ask me why.

If we had drafted Elway, maybe. Time will tell on the 2006 class.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 01:51 PM
I'm not saying a running back CAN'T be good if he's over 30. What I'm saying is that Running Backs who are 30 years old or older usually do not have productive seasons. All I'm saying is that a 30 year old running back, who's been no stranger to injuries at all should not be counted as a safe bet.

If Henry can just stay healthy, I believe he has plenty of spunk for the next
couple years. I do believe he is well capable of a 1,500-yard season this year.
The guy is a beast, and he has better football speed than you may think. If
the "injury gods" will smile on us this year, the Broncos have enough talent at
not only his position, but every position, to play with anybody this year.

-----

topscribe
04-29-2008, 01:58 PM
I think you're right T. It looks like Bell and Hall have bigger mountains to climb than the other backs.

It would seem what kept Hall on the job was his potential as returner. Now
that the Broncos are bringing in Royal and Alridge, Hall's job would seem more
unsure. Something's going to have to give on the roster, and it won't be Royal.
Hall had better concentrate on proving himself on special teams, or it looks as
if he's gone.

I really like Bell. Having followed his career all through college and now here, I
know he is really a fine person. But alas, I don't see him going into the regular
season as a Bronco.

-----

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 02:07 PM
It would seem what kept Hall on the job was his potential as returner. Now
that the Broncos are bringing in Royal and Alridge, Hall's job would seem more
unsure. Something's going to have to give on the roster, and it won't be Royal.
Hall had better concentrate on proving himself on special teams, or it looks as
if he's gone.

I really like Bell. Having followed his career all through college and now here, I
know he is really a fine person. But alas, I don't see him going into the regular
season as a Bronco.

-----

Precisely Royal is a first day pick he wont be going anywhere.

I think Alridge is in the same boat as Hall.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 02:54 PM
I'm not saying a running back CAN'T be good if he's over 30. What I'm saying is that Running Backs who are 30 years old or older usually do not have productive seasons. All I'm saying is that a 30 year old running back, who's been no stranger to injuries at all should not be counted as a safe bet.

I'm saying Travis Henry when healthy is one of the top RBs in the league. I'm saying Travis Henry will be our star RB in 2008 and yes, it's a safe bet, bank it. We have to cause he's all we have, unless you want Selvin toting the rock and yes, he'll be 30 during the thick of the season.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 03:01 PM
Shanahan has shown that he will put the ball in the hands of a rookie if the rookie wins it. He has done it before. However, Torain won't be given the job, he probably won't even be given a lot of reps, so he will have to really excel with the reps he is given, and then it is possible.

It took Portis 3-4 games splitting carries with Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson in 2003 to fully secure the starting job and after that he ran with it.

If Shanahan hasn't fully decided who his starting RB back is by regular season, and Torain has a great camp and pre-season, you can bet Torain will get plenty of chances to prove they can start. But as it looks now, when Travis comes back to camp healthy and reinvigorated from last year's distractions and injuries as I'm expecting he will be, no way a 5th round rookie or Young or anyone will beat out Travis Henry.

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 03:16 PM
It took Portis 3-4 games splitting carries with Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson in 2003 to fully secure the starting job and after that he ran with it.

If Shanahan hasn't fully decided who his starting RB back is by regular season, and Torain has a great camp and pre-season, you can bet Torain will get plenty of chances to prove they can start. But as it looks now, when Travis comes back to camp healthy and reinvigorated from last year's distractions and injuries as I'm expecting he will be, no way a 5th round rookie or Young or anyone will beat out Travis Henry.

In 2003 Mike had already been moved to fullback.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 03:20 PM
I'm sure you're correct. Coach already had plans for Portis and he only wanted to see Portis take the job.

Brand
04-29-2008, 04:13 PM
I think your premise is all screwed up. Many of us who believed that Mendenhall or Stewart would likely be the first pick were judging from the belief that the three big tackles would be taken before 12. In an article in the Post, it was stated that if those three were gone, Stewart would have been chosen at the 12 spot by Denver. No trade down was possible.... That does not mean I "hated" on any of the tackles, only that I was making a judgment based on several mocks and several "guesses" about the way the draft would go, and I am not the only person to make that "guesstimate".

For you to "crow" about any supposed "superior" knowledge about the selection of an OT, and for you to accuse others of hating on Henry because we believed that Stewart or Mendenhall would be chosen is plain horse hockey. Henry may or may not be the UberRB some people want him to be next year.

Moreover, the draft strategy for the Broncos was quite different than from the past, and refreshingly so. I am not unhappy about the picks made, and I think Clady can be a good player, maybe better, depending upon his development and barring injuries.

It is this sort of boorish accusations and chest pounding challenges that actually make this and other boards wearying. I would rather simply enjoy the selections, and wait anxiously to see how the team will shape up for next season. TC is not that far away, now, and I will be ready. I don't have to hate on any Bronco at all. I have as much right to an opinion as you, and it does not mean I "hate" on anyone or disparage any Bronco.....

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 04:16 PM
What's your point?

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 04:49 PM
I'm saying Travis Henry when healthy is one of the top RBs in the league. I'm saying Travis Henry will be our star RB in 2008 and yes, it's a safe bet, bank it. We have to cause he's all we have, unless you want Selvin toting the rock and yes, he'll be 30 during the thick of the season.

WHEN healthy.

Remember that.

Tned
04-29-2008, 04:55 PM
WHEN healthy.

Remember that.

Yes, when healthy, and 'top' running back is a stretch. He is more like a second tier. Don't get me wrong, if Denver gets their act together and Shanny digs back into the offense and gets back to his old creative self, then I think a second tier back like Henry can produce big in Denver, but he isn't a premier back.

Retired_Member_001
04-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Yes, when healthy, and 'top' running back is a stretch. He is more like a second tier. Don't get me wrong, if Denver gets their act together and Shanny digs back into the offense and gets back to his old creative self, then I think a second tier back like Henry can produce big in Denver, but he isn't a premier back.

I agree.

A second tier injury prone back is what I've been arguing all this time.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 05:10 PM
I think your premise is all screwed up. Many of us who believed that Mendenhall or Stewart would likely be the first pick were judging from the belief that the three big tackles would be taken before 12. In an article in the Post, it was stated that if those three were gone, Stewart would have been chosen at the 12 spot by Denver. No trade down was possible.... That does not mean I "hated" on any of the tackles, only that I was making a judgment based on several mocks and several "guesses" about the way the draft would go, and I am not the only person to make that "guesstimate".

For you to "crow" about any supposed "superior" knowledge about the selection of an OT, and for you to accuse others of hating on Henry because we believed that Stewart or Mendenhall would be chosen is plain horse hockey. Henry may or may not be the UberRB some people want him to be next year.

Moreover, the draft strategy for the Broncos was quite different than from the past, and refreshingly so. I am not unhappy about the picks made, and I think Clady can be a good player, maybe better, depending upon his development and barring injuries.

It is this sort of boorish accusations and chest pounding challenges that actually make this and other boards wearying. I would rather simply enjoy the selections, and wait anxiously to see how the team will shape up for next season. TC is not that far away, now, and I will be ready. I don't have to hate on any Bronco at all. I have as much right to an opinion as you, and it does not mean I "hate" on anyone or disparage any Bronco.....


No body on an mock draft that knew what they were talking about predicted that 3 OTs would be gone by the 12th pick. Mike Mayock, the 2008 draft wiz who just about predicted every pick as it came up did not have 3 OTs gone by 12. Besides, even if Clady, Williams and the next best OT was gone, Coach Shanny wouldn't have taken Stewart anyways. Something told me he would have taken Jerod Mayo, but that's just my opinion.

Only a few of you draft genius looked for a reason to not draft an OT at #12. Most common excuse was no OTs besides Jake Long is worth a #12. Well, 6 OTs were taken from picks #12-22. That goes to show 1 of 2 things, That OTs are a hot commodity or this year's OT class is the best in a long time, or both. Anyways, the Broncos made the correct and the no brainier decision, to take the best LT knowing Travis Henry will be ready to go this coming season.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 05:40 PM
WHEN healthy.

Remember that.

You guys speak as though only Travis Henry gets hurt. A few of you guys have been sitting around drinking too much of each other's cool aide, discounting Travis Henry's abilities.

Here's a list off the top of my head of top RBs in the league that had their season ended prematurely or injuries really hindered their performance:

1.) Ladainian Tomlinson; started but was not able to play final playoff game where they got thumped by the Patriots. He's normally very durable but when they needed him most, he was hurt; bruised knee/torn ACL?

2.) Adrian Peterson; LCL injury/sprain against the Packers, missed next 4 games.

3.) Shaun Alexander; Fractured wrist in week 1, played through it but was not the same. Twisted both knees and ankle in week nine. Didn't come back til last game where he sucked. Released by team afterwards.

4.) Larry Johnson; foot injury in wk 9 ended his season.

5.) Priest Holmes; the NFL premier RB seasons ago had his career shortened abruptly; reminds me of Terrell Davis' career.

The list goes on and on. I only named 5 of the biggest names in the league.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 06:48 PM
What's your point?

If you're talking about Brand, I think his was one of the better posts in the
thread. I dont necessarily agree with all of it, but he did make his point, IMO.

-----

topscribe
04-29-2008, 06:51 PM
No body on an mock draft that knew what they were talking about predicted that 3 OTs would be gone by the 12th pick. Mike Mayock, the 2008 draft wiz who just about predicted every pick as it came up did not have 3 OTs gone by 12. Besides, even if Clady, Williams and the next best OT was gone, Coach Shanny wouldn't have taken Stewart anyways. Something told me he would have taken Jerod Mayo, but that's just my opinion.

Only a few of you draft genius looked for a reason to not draft an OT at #12. Most common excuse was no OTs besides Jake Long is worth a #12. Well, 6 OTs were taken from picks #12-22. That goes to show 1 of 2 things, That OTs are a hot commodity or this year's OT class is the best in a long time, or both. Anyways, the Broncos made the correct and the no brainier decision, to take the best LT knowing Travis Henry will be ready to go this coming season.

Shanny left little doubt that he would have taken Stewart, had all the OTs
been gone. He had even gone so far as to interview the doctors about
Stewart's injury. He indicated he was prepared to pull the trigger on him.

It is my impression Stewart was one Clady away from donning the orange & blue.

-----

omac
04-29-2008, 06:51 PM
Thanks mac! :salute:

You really thought he looked explosive? Like he could take it to the house at any time? I thought at his best he looked like a hard runner who would consistently get you 4 yards.

We were burning a lot of clock to kick field goals. Remember how low scoring those game were? IMO we needed more big plays. It's nice knowing that you can almost always count on getting a couple big runs a game.. Knowing that they can come at any moment. For me that feeling came after Young went in. It just felt like the best we could hope out of Henry was a 15 yarder...

Nah, I saw it as a plus. What we were doing was winning the time of possesion battle and keeping the other team's offense on the bench, as well as resting our defense. But it's really tough to score when we usually have to make up for bad field position. Always tough to score, or even get a rythm going, when you're frequently forced to start at before the 20s. Couple that with a band-aid OL and that's just not good. A lot of times, the other teams were too succesful getting penetration when we were doing running plays.

Henry's not a speedster, but his rushes were explosive, and he'd get extra yards after the tackle; he knew how and when to hit the hole or go outside; plus, he was difficult to bring down. I'll take that kind of back over a speedster like Felix Jones or McFadden any day.

Adrian Peterson is such an awesome back, and everyone's fallen in love with the idea that McFadden is the next game changing back, some go as far as to say he's better than AD. I don't think so. Analysts keep showing how, when he runs inside, he's not that difficult to tackle. For me, what makes AD more special is not his great speed (which is great), but that he's just so difficult to bring down.

Henry doesn't have that speed, but he's got enough explosiveness, and is difficult to bring down, at least when he's healthy. We'll see if he can stay healthy or not.

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 07:00 PM
1st reason I said you don't know what you are talking about. Henry is nothing like Mike Anderson.
MA is a 6' and 230lb brute who runs upright with very little wiggle.
Travis Henry is 5'9'' and 230lbs, runs low, quick, plenty of shake, cuts well and perfect for our 1 cut system. He's also deceptively fast.

You say Henry has no excitement. Apparently you forget to watch the 1st 3-4 games last year.

You say he doesn't scare anyone defenses but I've never seen anyone break tackle after tackle the way he did. Mike Shanahan was awed by it and so was I.
I forget who it was, either Gold or Webster who said Travis Henry is the hardest guy to bring down and they hated having to do so cause it hurts.


I already asked you how many 20+ yard runs Henry had while he was actualy playing?

Why didn't you answer that?

I never said Henry couldn't run hard!
I never said he wasn't hard to tackle!

I said, he isn't exciting and or explosive. While I'm at it I'll also say, he isn't a game changer. He is a tuff runner who will get you the tuff yards. That's fine, we can work with that.. The problem is, now we're saying he can't carry the load and be a hard nose work horse back. So I ask, What is he? :confused:

Is he a 3rd and short back? You said, you feel he is among the top 10 backs in the league. So what, by your estimation 32% of the starting running backs are elite backs?

"IF" Henry can actualy carry the load for a full season I could see him finishing in the top 10 this year. But that is a big "IF".

I also want to point out that there is very little doubt to anyone that no matter our starting RB, if they can carry the load for 16 games they will finish in the top 10..

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 07:08 PM
I'm not gonna split hairs with you. If it's somewhere in the ball park, it's good.

For instance, when a star player is sat out the last game of the season cause home field and everything in the post season is clinched, does that also mean he did not play a full season? Elway, Davis, Smith, Sharpe and most those guys in the 1998 season didn't play their final game before the playoffs. Does that mean they didn't play the full season?

Come on Star, if I said the cat has spots, don't ask me how many.

There's a huge difference!

Getting pulled because your to valuable to lose is not even close to not being able to play because your hurt..

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 07:11 PM
No, look at the volleying post above. I'm only covering what you said about how 30yr old RBs arn't any good cause last season only 1 RB, Fred Taylor got 1000 yrds. So I'm pointing out how Holmes and Alexander were MVPs at 29-30yrs old just a couple seasons ago.

The only thing I'm comparing of Henry to Holmes and Alexander is their age and what those guys did at 30. I never said Henry is as good as them or he'll get an MVP at 30. I'm just saying don't count out a RB just cause they're 30 or are about to turn 30.

grounds covered?

His point was that the % of 30 year old RB's putting up great #'s isn't good.

The same as the % of late round picks being All Pros isn't good. Why is that so hard to understand?

omac
04-29-2008, 07:15 PM
Come on guys, don't you remember? After watching "the speedy" Tatum Bell immediately fall backward slight contact, we were all ecstatic when defenders were bouncing off or getting dragged by Henry. Take a guy who can do that consistently over a guy who "might" get a 30 yard run in a game. Just think back ... do we want another Tatum Bell? or even a Reggie Bush, hows that working out New Orleans?

frauschieze
04-29-2008, 07:19 PM
Wow, that is really going out on a limb there.

I say the Broncos greatest draft class was 1983. Don't ask me why.


If we had drafted Elway, maybe. Time will tell on the 2006 class.

:laugh:


I tend to think that the season (well training camp/preseason) will start with Henry number 1 and Young as the change of pace back, with Torain fighting for the number three spot and with Hillis and Sapp as FB's and possibly short yardage guys.

Now, it is possible that preseason could really shake things up. Torain could win a starting job, as could Hillis, but then again, Henry could run like he did the first couple games of last year and then no matter how well the others play, it would be Henry's job.

Mike Bell was Shanahan's prize pony at the end of 2006 and look at where he ended up in 2007. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Young's position was in jeopardy.

Training camp should be especially entertaining in the runningback category.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 07:22 PM
I already asked you how many 20+ yard runs Henry had while he was actualy playing?

Why didn't you answer that?

I never said Henry couldn't run hard!
I never said he wasn't hard to tackle!

I said, he isn't exciting and or explosive. While I'm at it I'll also say, he isn't a game changer. He is a tuff runner who will get you the tuff yards. That's fine, we can work with that.. The problem is, now we're saying he can't carry the load and be a hard nose work horse back. So I ask, What is he? :confused:

Is he a 3rd and short back? You said, you feel he is among the top 10 backs in the league. So what, by your estimation 32% of the starting running backs are elite backs?

"IF" Henry can actualy carry the load for a full season I could see him finishing in the top 10 this year. But that is a big "IF".

I also want to point out that there is very little doubt to anyone that no matter our starting RB, if they can carry the load for 16 games they will finish in the top 10..

Henry had three runs of over 20 yards, but, remember, he played in only
four games where he had 20 or more carries.

One thing I might bring out: Henry is a game-changer, in that he took it for
a YPC of about 5.0 everytime he touched the ball in those four games. Even
though he was not a significant threat to take it to the house, that kind of
production will cause the defense to look for him, opening it up a little more
for Cutler and his howitzer arm, and he demonstrated that a few times with
Walker, Stokley, and BMarsh.

Still, I would like to see what Young has done this offseason, whether he
has fulfilled his pledge to gain a few pounds. It would be great to see a
217-pound Young running between the tackles, yet able to score from
anywhere on the field.

On the flip side, I believe what they see in Torain is a Henry-type attack,
yet one where he has the speed and explosiveness to rip off some long
ones once in a while. If he can do that, I'll kiss my mother-in-law.

I did notice an alarming statistic for Henry last year: Against Oakland, he
toted the ball 41 times in one game. That is way too much and a sure way
to create injuries in a RB. Not only is he more exposed with the added
carries, but the inevitable fatigue will contribute to the likelihood. And, sure
enough, he was back on the shelf after that.

They just cannot afford to do that with their RBs. With a healthy Young
behind an healthy Henry, now backed by a healthy Torain, they might now
be able to avoid that.

-----

omac
04-29-2008, 07:35 PM
Henry had three runs of over 20 yards, but, remember, he played in only
four games where he had 20 or more carries.

One thing I might bring out: Henry is a game-changer, in that he took it for
a YPC of about 5.0 everytime he touched the ball in those four games. Even
though he was not a significant threat to take it to the house, that kind of
production will cause the defense to look for him, opening it up a little more
for Cutler and his howitzer arm, and he demonstrated that a few times with
Walker, Stokley, and BMarsh.

Still, I would like to see what Young has done this offseason, whether he
has fulfilled his pledge to gain a few pounds. It would be great to see a
217-pound Young running between the tackles, yet able to score from
anywhere on the field.

On the flip side, I believe what they see in Torain is a Henry-type attack,
yet one where he has the speed and explosiveness to rip off some long
ones once in a while. If he can do that, I'll kiss my mother-in-law.

I did notice an alarming statistic for Henry last year: Against Oakland, he
toted the ball 41 times in one game. That is way too much and a sure way
to create injuries in a RB. Not only is he more exposed with the added
carries, but the inevitable fatigue will contribute to the likelihood. And, sure
enough, he was back on the shelf after that.

They just cannot afford to do that with their RBs. With a healthy Young
behind an healthy Henry, now backed by a healthy Torain, they might now
be able to avoid that.

-----

Yeah, now there's definitely enough rotation to choose from.

I do hope we keep Hall. In our division, we need all the rb's we can keep. We're now facing LT, LJ, & McFadden. :D

topscribe
04-29-2008, 07:38 PM
Yeah, now there's definitely enough rotation to choose from.

I do hope we keep Hall. In our division, we need all the rb's we can keep. We're now facing LT, LJ, & McFadden. :D

. . . and they're facing Cutler.

Unless you're worried about Phyllis. ;)

-----

Hobe
04-29-2008, 07:39 PM
I think there will be some shakeouts at running back. Henry is #1 on the depth chart and the starting job is his. However, if he screws up and loses the starting job before the season starts I don’t think he will be on the roster at all.

RB is very crowded right now in Denver. I think Tillis will move to the head of the line at Fullback. That means Sapp and Bell either compete at tailback (A fight they have already lost.) or get good at special teams. Young and Hall have to watch their backs because of Torain. I don’t know what Alridge is doing here; a 5' 9" 175 lbs RD? If he can’t return kicks like Rick Upchurch, then he is toast.

Now the Swami predicts: :ponder:

Henry will Start with Young as change of pace, and Troain third on the Tailback chart. Hillis will start at Fullback with Sapp as backup. Bell, Hall, and Alridge will have to find new homes.

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 07:42 PM
Yeah, now there's definitely enough rotation to choose from.

I do hope we keep Hall. In our division, we need all the rb's we can keep. We're now facing LT, LJ, & McFadden. :D

This is indeed scary to think about ATLEAST 6 games against pro bowl talent..

I hope slowlic is up the task..

or whomever we have at RB can have 200 yard games against these players..

topscribe
04-29-2008, 07:49 PM
This is indeed scary to think about ATLEAST 6 games against pro bowl talent..

I hope slowlic is up the task..

or whomever we have at RB can have 200 yard games against these players..

JR, the Broncos will have Thomas with a year under his belt, plus Robertson
beside him, and Powell is known as a run-stuffer (the reason he was selected,
I assume). Our best run-stopping DE, Ekuban, will be healthy, and Crowder
will have another year. Koutouvides came with gushing reports of his play from
the LB coach in Seattle, Boss is an upgrade at Sam, and D.J. is back at Will,
where he excelled as a rookie.

The only run-stopping liability in the secondary is Bly . . . and I wonder if he
will have to compete against Foxworth for his job this year. (I know you're
not a fan of Foxy's, but he was good enough against the run to fill in at
safety.)

If there are any 200-yard games against the Broncos this year, I'll bet you
will be able to count them on one finger. LT is up to any defense.

-----

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 07:50 PM
Nah, I saw it as a plus. What we were doing was winning the time of possesion battle and keeping the other team's offense on the bench, as well as resting our defense. But it's really tough to score when we usually have to make up for bad field position. Always tough to score, or even get a rythm going, when you're frequently forced to start at before the 20s. Couple that with a band-aid OL and that's just not good. A lot of times, the other teams were too succesful getting penetration when we were doing running plays.

Henry's not a speedster, but his rushes were explosive, and he'd get extra yards after the tackle; he knew how and when to hit the hole or go outside; plus, he was difficult to bring down. I'll take that kind of back over a speedster like Felix Jones or McFadden any day.

Adrian Peterson is such an awesome back, and everyone's fallen in love with the idea that McFadden is the next game changing back, some go as far as to say he's better than AD. I don't think so. Analysts keep showing how, when he runs inside, he's not that difficult to tackle. For me, what makes AD more special is not his great speed (which is great), but that he's just so difficult to bring down.

Henry doesn't have that speed, but he's got enough explosiveness, and is difficult to bring down, at least when he's healthy. We'll see if he can stay healthy or not.


mac, first I want to say, I don't hate Henry! But do I consider him one of the best RB's in the game? NO. Do I think he is a good back when he is healthy? YES.

I do disagree with you about not having any big plays as being a good thing. Even despite the lousy field position we were moving the ball. How many 10+ drives did we have when we only got a field goal? We had great #'s but we weren't putting up points.

Our red zone attempts were way up, we were driving the length of the field, and we would stall out in the red zone. I agree with you about winning the TOP battle. That's great! But it works the best if you can have 2 or 3 big plays a game then run the clock while you sit on your lead. Beings we didn't have many big plays we never seemed to have the lead.

Remember the JAX game? We only had the ball 7 times. When you play ball control offense you need to be able to brake a couple big plays a game to put points on the board. That was our biggest problem. Even after the first 4 games when we had all the great #'s. We were like 25th in long scoring plays.

It's really hard to win when you consistently have to drive the length of the field to score.



Come on guys, don't you remember? After watching "the speedy" Tatum Bell immediately fall backward slight contact, we were all ecstatic when defenders were bouncing off or getting dragged by Henry. Take a guy who can do that consistently over a guy who "might" get a 30 yard run in a game. Just think back ... do we want another Tatum Bell? or even a Reggie Bush, hows that working out New Orleans?

I would not trade Henry for Bell!

I'm just saying we need some explosion coming from our back field to go along with the power running. I didn't see explosion from Henry, However, if we can get 70 yards on 15 tuff carries out of Henry then someone needs to be able to come in and give us 50 - 70 yards from 10 explosive carries.

my point is that Henry doesn't seem to be a feature back. He is not the end all when it come to the position. He just isn't or at least he wasn't a "Big Play" guy, even when healthy. At least I never seen it. I suspect if he was then we would have scored some more points while he was healthy :D

He is closer to Bettis then he is to TD...

LRtagger
04-29-2008, 07:52 PM
I did notice an alarming statistic for Henry last year: Against Oakland, he
toted the ball 41 times in one game. That is way too much and a sure way
to create injuries in a RB.
-----


:confused: He had 41 carries in TWO games against Oakland last year.

26 for 128 in game 1
15 for 49 in game 2

LRtagger
04-29-2008, 07:55 PM
The thing that worries me the most about Henry (besides his heath and off-field issues) is his production in the red zone. He had ONE TD in our 7 wins last season. His other THREE TDs all came in losses.

He isnt going to break off any long TD runs, so he needs to be able to punch it in when we are in the redzone. I know we had Oline problems last year, but with his size and strength he should be able to move the pile and score TDs.

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 07:56 PM
JR, the Broncos will have Thomas with a year under his belt, plus Robertson
beside him, and Powell is known as a run-stuffer (the reason he was selected,
I assume). Our best run-stopping DE, Ekuban, will be healthy, and Crowder
will have another year. Koutouvides came with gushing reports of his play from
the LB coach in Seattle, Boss is an upgrade at Sam, and D.J. is back at Will,
where he excelled as a rookie.

The only run-stopping liability in the secondary is Bly . . . and I wonder if he
will have to compete against Foxworth for his job this year. (I know you're
not a fan of Foxy's, but he was good enough against the run to fill in at
safety.)

If there are any 200-yard games against the Broncos this year, I'll bet you
will be able to count them on one finger. LT is up to any defense.

-----

Lets hope that having the improved talent will be enough, as I'm also not a slowik fan either.. foxworthless only played DISASTER safety..

I hope your correct TOP but right now I think not.. BTW the 200 yard comment was supposed to mean we had to have them to keep the ball out of LT, LJ and McFadden's hands.. If it did come across that way I apologize.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 07:58 PM
mac, first I want to say, I don't hate Henry! But do I consider him one of the best RB's in the game? NO. Do I think he is a good back when he is healthy? YES.

I do disagree with you about not having any big plays as being a good thing. Even despite the lousy field position we were moving the ball. How many 10+ drives did we have when we only got a field goal? We had great #'s but we weren't putting up points.

Our red zone attempts were way up, we were driving the length of the field, and we would stall out in the red zone. I agree with you about winning the TOP battle. That's great! But it works the best if you can have 2 or 3 big plays a game then run the clock while you sit on your lead. Beings we didn't have many big plays we never seemed to have the lead.

Remember the JAX game? We only had the ball 7 times. When you play ball control offense you need to be able to brake a couple big plays a game to put points on the board. That was our biggest problem. Even after the first 4 games when we had all the great #'s. We were like 25th in long scoring plays.

It's really hard to win when you consistently have to drive the length of the field to win.




I would not trade Henry for Bell!

I'm just saying we need some explosion coming from our back field to go along with the power running. I never seen any explosion from Henry, However, if we can get 70 yards on 15 tuff carries out of Henry then someone needs to be able to come in and give us 50 - 70 yards from 10 explosive carries.

my point is that Henry doesn't seem to be a feature back. He is not the end all when it come to the position. He just isn't or at least he wasn't a "Big Play" guy, even when healthy. At least I never seen it. I suspect if he was then we would have scored some more points while he was healthy :D

He is closer to Bettis then he is to TD...

No, Henry is not close to Bettis. The Broncos have not had anyone close
to Bettis since Cookie Gilchrist. (TD was out of Bettis' league.)

But you have a point regarding Henry. The problem with shuffling in and out
a "change-of-pace" back is that the defense is able to watch the process
and knows all about what is happening. I see two solutions to that:

1. Young has put on about 10 pounds, as he said he wanted to do, and will
be able to deliver on his already demonstrated willingness to hit somebody.
As I have repeated ad nauseum (sorry about that), he can score from
anywhere, creating the possibility of his being a feature back.

2. Torain is as advertised, and his better speed and explosiveness will
complement his power, which seems to rival Henry's.

If one of these options does not come to fruition, then we are resigned to
a grind-it-out game on the ground. However, an explosive air game should
remedy some of that, IMO.

-----

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 07:59 PM
Shanny left little doubt that he would have taken Stewart, had all the OTs
been gone. He had even gone so far as to interview the doctors about
Stewart's injury. He indicated he was prepared to pull the trigger on him.

It is my impression Stewart was one Clady away from donning the orange & blue.

-----

There was Clady, Williams and a whole host of 6 OTs taken from #12-22. And there was no way 3 OTs would have been gone by the #12 came up. With all those other top prospects and the teams that were ahead of us and their needs, no way 3 OTs would have been off the board by #12. And even if they were, that just means 3 guys that were drafted ahead of us could have came to Denver. I personally like Jerod Mayo to come in and replace Al Wilson for years to come. Mayo is Patrick Willis of last season; Coach was gonna trade up for Willis but SF took him.

Point is, OT was the smartest pick, then any other position other than RB, Stewart or no Stewart. There is another thread covering that, go read it if you have any questions.

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 08:00 PM
:confused: He had 41 carries in TWO games against Oakland last year.

26 for 128 in game 1
15 for 49 in game 2

177 yards 88 a game..
4.3 s carry not over whelming IMO..

3.26 in the second game pretty pathetic as a matter of fact..

topscribe
04-29-2008, 08:02 PM
There was Clady, Williams and a whole host of 6 OTs taken from #12-22. And there was no way 3 OTs would have been gone by the #12 came up. With all those other top prospects and the teams that were ahead of us and their needs, no way 3 OTs would have been off the board by #12. And even if they were, that just means 3 guys that were drafted ahead of us could have came to Denver. I personally like Jerod Mayo to come in and replace Al Wilson for years to come. Mayo is Patrick Willis of last season; Coach was gonna trade up for Willis but SF took him.

Point is, OT was the smartest pick, then any other position other than RB, Stewart or no Stewart. There is another thread covering that, go read it if you have any questions.

I don't know where you get your information, but I listened to Shanny,
regarding whom he was going to select in the draft. And he left little doubt
that Stewart was next if Clady was gone.

Unless you can provide superior credentials, I regard Shanny as a better
source.

-----

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 08:03 PM
:laugh:



Mike Bell was Shanahan's prize pony at the end of 2006 and look at where he ended up in 2007. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Young's position was in jeopardy.

Training camp should be especially entertaining in the runningback category.

I agree, Selvin Young is nothing special. With Travis Henry all banged up last season, the job was his to take and neither he nor Hall was able to take it.

Don't worry, Travis Henry will live up to his contract, most of which he's already restructured.

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 08:04 PM
There was Clady, Williams and a whole host of 6 OTs taken from #12-22. And there was no way 3 OTs would have been gone by the #12 came up. With all those other top prospects and the teams that were ahead of us and their needs, no way 3 OTs would have been off the board by #12. And even if they were, that just means 3 guys that were drafted ahead of us could have came to Denver. I personally like Jerod Mayo to come in and replace Al Wilson for years to come. Mayo is Patrick Willis of last season; Coach was gonna trade up for Willis but SF took him.

Point is, OT was the smartest pick, then any other position other than RB, Stewart or no Stewart. There is another thread covering that, go read it if you have any questions.


Just as you crowed earlier about us starting a run on OT's. KC just may have done that when they would have taken one instead of Ellis..

Predicting the draft is not a science..

LRtagger
04-29-2008, 08:05 PM
Don't worry, Travis Henry will live up to his contract, most of which he's already restructured.

That's the only way he even has a chance at living up to his contract.

If he was such a baller and was a sure 1200+ yards next year, he wouldnt have had to restructure.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 08:06 PM
I don't know where you get your information, but I listened to Shanny,
regarding whom he was going to select in the draft. And he left little doubt
that Stewart was next if Clady was gone.

Unless you can provide superior credentials, I regard Shanny as a better
source.

-----

Hahaha... Shanahan, the guy that never tips his hand in a draft. The guy that runs the extra mile to conceal who his draft intentions. The guy that brings in prospect after prospect with no intention of drafting them. Yea, I'll believe what Mike Shanahan says before a draft. LOL :listen: :listen: :listen: :laugh: :laugh:

LRtagger
04-29-2008, 08:07 PM
Just as you crowed earlier about us starting a run on OT's. KC just may have done that when they would have taken one instead of Ellis..

Predicting the draft is not a science..

If Dorsey had been taken before KC picked, they more than likely would have taken Clady or Albert. There is no way they could have passed on Dorsey no matter what their needs were.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 08:09 PM
Lets hope that having the improved talent will be enough, as I'm also not a slowik fan either.. foxworthless only played DISASTER safety..

I hope your correct TOP but right now I think not.. BTW the 200 yard comment was supposed to mean we had to have them to keep the ball out of LT, LJ and McFadden's hands.. If it did come across that way I apologize.

JR, I'm getting the impression you are going by last year's defense. With as
many as seven to eight positions manned either by new players or players in
different positions, plus a different coach, this is not last year's defense.

Moreover, in my thinking, Slowick does not have to be a genius. All he has
to do is make players aware of their responsibilities because, apart from
a radical disaster such as what Bates introduced, it all boils down to
execution, anyway. Now, among Ekuban, Thomas, Robertson, Crowder,
Boss, Koutouvides, D.J., Champ, Lynch, and McCree/Manuel, tell me who
doesn't know how to execute.

I think we'll be fine. ;)

-----

topscribe
04-29-2008, 08:10 PM
Hahaha... Shanahan, the guy that never tips his hand in a draft. The guy that runs the extra mile to conceal who his draft intentions. The guy that brings in prospect after prospect with no intention of drafting them. Yea, I'll believe what Mike Shanahan says before a draft. LOL :listen: :listen: :listen: :laugh: :laugh:

He said that after the draft. *sigh*

-----

topscribe
04-29-2008, 08:12 PM
:confused: He had 41 carries in TWO games against Oakland last year.

26 for 128 in game 1
15 for 49 in game 2

OOPS. Well, I was looking at last year's chart, not realizing they combined the stats. :redface:



-----

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 08:13 PM
That's the only way he even has a chance at living up to his contract.

If he was such a baller and was a sure 1200+ yards next year, he wouldnt have had to restructure.

I don't even know why I bother explaining things to you. If I can draw you a picture I would.

The Broncos would have let him go before giving him a $6mil bonus this season starts. With what happen last year, Travis Henry knows he owes Mike Shanahan.

I've said this a million times. Travis Henry was greatful that Mike Shanahan stuck up for him during his court issue over the pee samples. Henry publicly says he wants to make right for Coach and the Broncos. Henry also knows Denver and their running scheme is the perfect fit for him to rejuvenate his career.

Nature Boy
04-29-2008, 08:18 PM
He said that after the draft. *sigh*

-----

Sure... I believe Mikey. :coffee:

After a guy bluffs a big hand in poker then tells you what hand he had, do you believe him? Mike Shanahan the consummate game planner will never reveal his cards.

fcspikeit
04-29-2008, 08:24 PM
No, Henry is not close to Bettis. The Broncos have not had anyone close
to Bettis since Cookie Gilchrist. (TD was out of Bettis' league.)


Your right, Henry is no Bettis, But he is closer to Bettis then TD..


But you have a point regarding Henry. The problem with shuffling in and out
a "change-of-pace" back is that the defense is able to watch the process
and knows all about what is happening. I see two solutions to that:

1. Young has put on about 10 pounds, as he said he wanted to do, and will
be able to deliver on his already demonstrated willingness to hit somebody.
As I have repeated ad nauseum (sorry about that), he can score from
anywhere, creating the possibility of his being a feature back.

2. Torain is as advertised, and his better speed and explosiveness will
complement his power, which seems to rival Henry's.


top, I agree with all of this! :salute:

It would be great to have 1 back who could do it all. Or at least be able to do a lot of everything.. That's pretty much why I compared Henry to Anderson. I don't believe teams feared Anderson as I don't believe they fear Henry. You can't always bring the big guy in to run inside and a little guy in to run outside. But that is what I see if Henry is our starter. He can't do it all..

IMO if your considered an elite/one of the best backs in the league, you need to be able to do it all. Not just get 4 tuff yards play after play.

We have never had a smash mouth, line up and push you off the ball O-line. They can't sustain long drives if the defense knows were just going to line up and pound the ball up the gut.

I guess what I'm saying is that when we catch the defense with 7 in the box it would be nice to rip off long runs. It seemed with Henry even when we caught them in passing D, the best he could get was 7 - 15 yards. It is great when you have a guy who can make one guy miss and take it for 20 - 50. Henry is not that guy! Even when he ran someone over there was always someone there to drag him down 4 or 5 yards later.

IMO we are still looking for a guy who can carry the load and also make big plays for us. You echoe that statement when you say, "Young has put on about 10 pounds, as he said he wanted to do, and will
be able to deliver on his already demonstrated willingness to hit somebody.
As I have repeated ad nauseum (sorry about that), he can score from
anywhere, creating the possibility of his being a feature back."


As it stands right now we are looking for someone to step up and be the man. Henry has not shown he can be "the man" otherwise we wouldn't be talking about Young gaining weight to be the man.


If one of these options does not come to fruition, then we are resigned to
a grind-it-out game on the ground. However, an explosive air game should
remedy some of that, IMO.

-----


Your right again, if someone don't step up, all we have is a hard nose runner who will get you 4 yards. I believe an improved passing attack will help. But it sucks knowing, the D can play the pass 80% of the time and we can't make them pay for it..

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 08:30 PM
If Dorsey had been taken before KC picked, they more than likely would have taken Clady or Albert. There is no way they could have passed on Dorsey no matter what their needs were.

OH I agree when that happened it screwed up many a MOCK draft..

Dorsey vs clady NO comparsion IMO.. But my comment was they would have taken clady and then come beck for albert if he was still around..

I still think Kc would have started a RUN on OT's had they not taken Dorsey.. Who knows for sure who would have been available #12..

topscribe
04-29-2008, 08:34 PM
Sure... I believe Mikey. :coffee:

After a guy bluffs a big hand in poker then tells you what hand he had, do you believe him? Mike Shanahan the consummate game planner will never reveal his cards.

NB, what I have observed from you is your tendency to get into pissing
contests. It might be a good idea to observe how other posters here listen to
each other and to develop that ability for yourself. :tsk:

-----

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 08:36 PM
JR, I'm getting the impression you are going by last year's defense. With as
many as seven to eight positions manned either by new players or players in
different positions, plus a different coach, this is not last year's defense.

Moreover, in my thinking, Slowick does not have to be a genius. All he has
to do is make players aware of their responsibilities because, apart from
a radical disaster such as what Bates introduced, it all boils down to
execution, anyway. Now, among Ekuban, Thomas, Robertson, Crowder,
Boss, Koutouvides, D.J., Champ, Lynch, and McCree/Manuel, tell me who
doesn't know how to execute.

I think we'll be fine. ;)

-----

It is last years defense with hopefully better players.. It is Mikeys defense that slowik put into force at the BYE week last year..

Hopefully having newer and "better" players at WIL, MIKE, SAM, DT, DT, FS and DE will make a difference.. BUT remember that they will all be learning the system if it stays the same as it was at the end of last year..

They only guys not learning something new will be Champ, Bly, and John.. maybe Doom and Crowder. Who were both partimers last year..

NameUsedBefore
04-29-2008, 08:36 PM
I could totally see Travis Henry getting cut or demoted before the season starts, TBH.

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 08:48 PM
I could totally see Travis Henry getting cut or demoted before the season starts, TBH.

Maybe if he gets hurt again during camp or is somehow tangled up in another marijuana fiasco other than that I don't it's likely NUB.

NameUsedBefore
04-29-2008, 08:52 PM
Maybe if he gets hurt again during camp or is somehow tangled up in another marijuana fiasco other than that I don't it's likely NUB.

Well I think the possibility of him getting in trouble again is pretty high; that alone makes me think he wont be the starter. But then you add in the fact that he's slowing down considerably and has been having injuries and the likelihood of him being the starters months from now goes down down down into a ring of Shanahan's office. :tsk:

Lonestar
04-29-2008, 08:57 PM
Well I think the possibility of him getting in trouble again is pretty high; that alone makes me think he wont be the starter. But then you add in the fact that he's slowing down considerably and has been having injuries and the likelihood of him being the starters months from now goes down down down into a ring of Shanahan's office. :tsk:


He has had issues and maybe he has learned from them.. But teaching old dogs new tricks.. I think your spot on with your analysis.


Nine kids, that we know of, how many dalliances with Mary Jane?

Ticking time bomb IMO


And we are not even talking about injuries..

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 09:05 PM
Well I think the possibility of him getting in trouble again is pretty high; that alone makes me think he wont be the starter. But then you add in the fact that he's slowing down considerably and has been having injuries and the likelihood of him being the starters months from now goes down down down into a ring of Shanahan's office. :tsk:

How do you figured he's slowing down? He played on gimpy knee at the end of the season I don't think that's good indicator that he's slowing down. Shanahan wont sit a guy just because he's a high risk. He'll have to screw up before Shanahan will do that.

NameUsedBefore
04-29-2008, 09:08 PM
How do you figured he's slowing down? He played on gimpy knee at the end of the season I don't that's good indicator that he's slowing down. Shanahan wont sit a guy just because he's a high risk. He'll have to screw up before Shanahan will do that.

He's certainly not the player he was a few years ago. I think the injuries/wear and tear are adding up. He's just about due for the rapid decline most workhorse backs take, IMO.

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 09:10 PM
He's certainly not the player he was a few years ago. I think the injuries/wear and tear are adding up. He's just about due for the rapid decline most workhorse backs take, IMO.

Ok that make sense.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 09:17 PM
He has had issues and maybe he has learned from them.. But teaching old dogs new tricks.. I think your spot on with your analysis.


Nine kids, that we know of, how many dalliances with Mary Jane?

Ticking time bomb IMO


And we are not even talking about injuries..

The kids, I'm not worried about.

The MJ, well, I have seen too many cases where someone will take chances,
slip in a few tokes with a calculated guess that they will not have to take a
piss test within the next nine days (the length of time required for it to
disappear from the urinary system).

Something about pot seems to turn people into idiots. I really, really hope
Henry lays off the stuff, but history is not on his side.

The way I see it, frankly (and I haven't admitted to this before), is that
Torain and/or Young had better work out . . .

-----

Tned
04-29-2008, 09:19 PM
It is last years defense with hopefully better players.. It is Mikeys defense that slowik put into force at the BYE week last year..

Hopefully having newer and "better" players at WIL, MIKE, SAM, DT, DT, FS and DE will make a difference.. BUT remember that they will all be learning the system if it stays the same as it was at the end of last year..

They only guys not learning something new will be Champ, Bly, and John.. maybe Doom and Crowder. Who were both partimers last year..

Big difference between putting in a defense in OTA's, then training camp, then pre-season games and then the season VS. scrapping everything you did in OTA's, training camp, pre-season games and the first half of the season and retooling in ONE week of which the players got almost the entire week off.

On top of that they made personell moves in the off season based on Bates system, which didn't pan out.

There is NO way the Broncos will be in the bottom three teams in rush defense again this year. I will be shocked if they aren't in the top 15 in total defense.

frauschieze
04-29-2008, 09:23 PM
This is indeed scary to think about ATLEAST 6 games against pro bowl talent..

I hope slowlic is up the task..

or whomever we have at RB can have 200 yard games against these players..

I concede your point.....but I'm not ready to give McFadden pro bowl talent yet. :D

Tned
04-29-2008, 09:27 PM
I concede your point.....but I'm not ready to give McFadden pro bowl talent yet. :D

Nahhh, not until after he wins the offensive rookie of the year.

topscribe
04-29-2008, 10:16 PM
Nahhh, not until after he wins the offensive rookie of the year.

Wouldn't it be a kick if Torain stepped up and won it instead? :laugh:

Not saying he will, of course, but that does make for a nice dream . . .

-----

TXBRONC
04-29-2008, 11:02 PM
Wouldn't it be a kick if Torain stepped up and won it instead? :laugh:

Not saying he will, of course, but that does make for a nice dream . . .

-----

A nice dream for us and nightmare for the rest of the division if this were to happen.

Lonestar
04-30-2008, 01:32 AM
The kids, I'm not worried about.

The MJ, well, I have seen too many cases where someone will take chances,
slip in a few tokes with a calculated guess that they will not have to take a
piss test within the next nine days (the length of time required for it to
disappear from the urinary system).

Something about pot seems to turn people into idiots. I really, really hope
Henry lays off the stuff, but history is not on his side.

The way I see it, frankly (and I haven't admitted to this before), is that
Torain and/or Young had better work out . . .

-----


I see the nine kids we know about as being a bit OCD. or total ego and not being able to stay away for a prohibited substance when you KNOW your going away for a long time.

Well not smart ring a bell..

Stargazer
04-30-2008, 03:38 AM
I don't know about you but I'll go ahead and call 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2006 full seasons. 13-14 of 16 games in my opinion is full enough.
Pull the career of any great RB and I'll guarantee you their career is dotted with seasons where they missed 1 or 2 games either due to injury, suspension of some sort, personal or sat out right cause the seedings were clinched or whatever reason.

Man, it's like trying to teach a kindergartener to read and write with you guys.

Can't agree with you. I want my RB playing atleast 16 games. He has done it only once. There's no denying it. This isn't baseball, NHL or the NBA. It is very important for an NFL player to play every game of the season.

Stargazer
04-30-2008, 03:42 AM
I'm not gonna split hairs with you. If it's somewhere in the ball park, it's good.

For instance, when a star player is sat out the last game of the season cause home field and everything in the post season is clinched, does that also mean he did not play a full season? Elway, Davis, Smith, Sharpe and most those guys in the 1998 season didn't play their final game before the playoffs. Does that mean they didn't play the full season?

Come on Star, if I said the cat has spots, don't ask me how many.

It's not splitting hairs or somewhere in the ballpark. This is the NFL. There's only 16 games in the regular season. And for your instance, that opportunity never applied to Travis Henry to take a vacation the last week of the season.

Stargazer
04-30-2008, 03:51 AM
I'm not gonna split hairs with you. If it's somewhere in the ball park, it's good.

For instance, when a star player is sat out the last game of the season cause home field and everything in the post season is clinched, does that also mean he did not play a full season? Elway, Davis, Smith, Sharpe and most those guys in the 1998 season didn't play their final game before the playoffs. Does that mean they didn't play the full season?

Come on Star, if I said the cat has spots, don't ask me how many.

I would also like to add players typically do not want to sit out games when bonuses, incentives, and player performances are involved to earn $.

Tned
04-30-2008, 07:24 AM
I see the nine kids we know about as being a bit OCD. or total ego and not being able to stay away for a prohibited substance when you KNOW your going away for a long time.

Well not smart ring a bell..

I don't get all the off field judgements about these players you keep focusing on. :confused: Yes, when it effects the team, like the dope smoking, I can see it as an issue, but when it comes to a players wonderlic score, if he has children out of wedlock, got into a bar fight, has sex with roosters.... Who cares. It's their life, their business.

We pay, whether it is with tickets, TV packages, jersies, etc. to watch them play football, they don't 'owe' us anything beyond that. If Henry wants to father 50 children with 50 women, that's his business, not ours. I'm not a big bible guy, but I think there are some phrases in their about judging others and that we are supposed to leave the judging the the almighty.

I personally think it's time we do two things:

1. Letting these guys live their lives without feeling the need to judge every aspect of it.

2. Recognizing ourselves and making sure the younger generations realize that they are not role modes to be followed in life, they are football players. Many of them, like many of us, are VERY flawed, but that is what makes us all human. They should be admired for what they bring us, entertainment and distraction from our everyday life.


Wouldn't it be a kick if Torain stepped up and won it instead? :laugh:

Not saying he will, of course, but that does make for a nice dream . . .

-----

Yea, that would be cool. It wouldn't break my heart if Torain came into camp, surprisingly won the starting job, rushed for 1,500 or so and won the ROY. That would bee a hoot.

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 08:17 AM
The Broncos would have let him go before giving him a $6mil bonus this season starts. With what happen last year, Travis Henry knows he owes Mike Shanahan.


EXACTLY. He isnt worth the original money that we signed him for. He is UNRELIABLE. If he wasnt a RISK, there would have been no need to renegotiate regardless of what happened last year. The fact is, he is a HUGE RISK and would have been CUT had he not taken a big paycut. FACTS NOT OPINION.



I don't even know why I bother explaining things to you.

By all means, please stop.

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 08:28 AM
I don't get all the off field judgements about these players you keep focusing on. :confused: Yes, when it effects the team, like the dope smoking, I can see it as an issue, but when it comes to a players wonderlic score, if he has children out of wedlock, got into a bar fight, has sex with roosters.... Who cares. It's their life, their business.

We pay, whether it is with tickets, TV packages, jersies, etc. to watch them play football, they don't 'owe' us anything beyond that. If Henry wants to father 50 children with 50 women, that's his business, not ours. I'm not a big bible guy, but I think there are some phrases in their about judging others and that we are supposed to leave the judging the the almighty.

I personally think it's time we do two things:

1. Letting these guys live their lives without feeling the need to judge every aspect of it.

2. Recognizing ourselves and making sure the younger generations realize that they are not role modes to be followed in life, they are football players. Many of them, like many of us, are VERY flawed, but that is what makes us all human. They should be admired for what they bring us, entertainment and distraction from our everyday life.



Yea, that would be cool. It wouldn't break my heart if Torain came into camp, surprisingly won the starting job, rushed for 1,500 or so and won the ROY. That would bee a hoot.

Unfortunately, I dont think this is realistic. Sure, what they do off the field is their own business, but when it effects their play or the rest of the team they should expect it to be reported about. How hard is it to not smoke weed or not have 15 kids? If Henry didnt want to give up weed or having random unprotected sex with multiple women, he should have chosen another career.

You can't ask kids to not look at athletes as role models. Kids aspire to be like them, thus they look up to them. The first time you buy your kid a jersey of his favorite player, he is going to look up to that player and want to be like him. I want my kids to be able to play in the back yard and pretend to be Jay Cutler and Tony Scheffler. I dont want to have to worry about them looking up to Travis Henry and the like. It would be easier if those players realized they are lucky to be where they are at and realize they have responsibilities as a professional athletes. If they dont like it, ****.

Retired_Member_001
04-30-2008, 09:00 AM
You guys speak as though only Travis Henry gets hurt. A few of you guys have been sitting around drinking too much of each other's cool aide, discounting Travis Henry's abilities.

Here's a list off the top of my head of top RBs in the league that had their season ended prematurely or injuries really hindered their performance:

1.) Ladainian Tomlinson; started but was not able to play final playoff game where they got thumped by the Patriots. He's normally very durable but when they needed him most, he was hurt; bruised knee/torn ACL?

2.) Adrian Peterson; LCL injury/sprain against the Packers, missed next 4 games.

3.) Shaun Alexander; Fractured wrist in week 1, played through it but was not the same. Twisted both knees and ankle in week nine. Didn't come back til last game where he sucked. Released by team afterwards.

4.) Larry Johnson; foot injury in wk 9 ended his season.

5.) Priest Holmes; the NFL premier RB seasons ago had his career shortened abruptly; reminds me of Terrell Davis' career.

The list goes on and on. I only named 5 of the biggest names in the league.

You are pointing out alot of one offs.

What is your point?

Retired_Member_001
04-30-2008, 09:13 AM
I don't get all the off field judgements about these players you keep focusing on. :confused: Yes, when it effects the team, like the dope smoking, I can see it as an issue, but when it comes to a players wonderlic score, if he has children out of wedlock, got into a bar fight, has sex with roosters.... Who cares. It's their life, their business.

We pay, whether it is with tickets, TV packages, jersies, etc. to watch them play football, they don't 'owe' us anything beyond that. If Henry wants to father 50 children with 50 women, that's his business, not ours. I'm not a big bible guy, but I think there are some phrases in their about judging others and that we are supposed to leave the judging the the almighty.

I personally think it's time we do two things:

1. Letting these guys live their lives without feeling the need to judge every aspect of it.

2. Recognizing ourselves and making sure the younger generations realize that they are not role modes to be followed in life, they are football players. Many of them, like many of us, are VERY flawed, but that is what makes us all human. They should be admired for what they bring us, entertainment and distraction from our everyday life.

I think the 9 children from 9 mothers is just a way to emphasize how dim Travis Henry is. Financially he's had to borry money from the Titans to keep up with payments. Is this something you want in a player?

I remember his first interview on ESPN when he came to Denver. I was excited because despite his injury problems and off field issues, I thought he could hold it down after having a healthy season in Tennessee. I remember thinking, this guy could hold down a spot for us and do a good job for 2 possibly 3 years.

I then remember thinking, " God this guy is so THICK" when he was having the interview. I mean the interview guy said " So Travis, how does it feel being in Denver, a place labelled running backs heaven?"

"I'm zo glayed.............. I'mz in Denvar. I'm thinkin.......I dink I'ma ran foah loadza yards for dis team. I'ma think I fittin in wit dis system. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

You always want high character guys on your team. Not dim witted guys.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 10:19 AM
You are pointing out alot of one offs.

What is your point?

He is making the same point I've made more than once. Several top RBs were
injured last year, not just ours. The rest of the point should be easy to infer,
shouldn't it?

-----

NameUsedBefore
04-30-2008, 10:27 AM
I think the 9 children from 9 mothers is just a way to emphasize how dim Travis Henry is. Financially he's had to borry money from the Titans to keep up with payments. Is this something you want in a player?

I remember his first interview on ESPN when he came to Denver. I was excited because despite his injury problems and off field issues, I thought he could hold it down after having a healthy season in Tennessee. I remember thinking, this guy could hold down a spot for us and do a good job for 2 possibly 3 years.

I then remember thinking, " God this guy is so THICK" when he was having the interview. I mean the interview guy said " So Travis, how does it feel being in Denver, a place labelled running backs heaven?"

"I'm zo glayed.............. I'mz in Denvar. I'm thinkin.......I dink I'ma ran foah loadza yards for dis team. I'ma think I fittin in wit dis system. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

You always want high character guys on your team. Not dim witted guys.

Supposedly a lot of players are like that. My cousin went to school with Brandon Jacobs (Giants) and said the guy was about as smart as a box of rocks. He also said he had the biggest wang he'd ever seen so I guess life tends to balance itself out :lol:

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 10:45 AM
He is making the same point I've made more than once. Several top RBs were
injured last year, not just ours. The rest of the point should be easy to infer,
shouldn't it?

-----

How many of those top RBs have missed 23 games over the span of 7 years? Even in his prime, Henry was an injury risk. He missed most of the 2004 and 2005 seasons.

LT has only missed one regular season game in his entire career. Willie Parker has only missed 2 games over the last three years. Portis has missed 12 games in 6 seasons. Edge has missed 16 games in 9 seasons.

Jamal Lewis has missed 6 games in 7 years not counting his season ending freak ACL injury in 2001. Even counting that entire year, he still has missed fewer games than Henry (22).

Even McGahee who came out of college with a major injury has been more consistant than Henry.

I would say Travis Henry is the most injury prone and inconsistant top tier RB in the league. The proof is in the pudding. 7 years in the league and just over 6000 total yards and 38 total TDs. That's an average of 870 yards per year and 5 TDs a year. Compare those numbers to all of the other top tier runners. I bet they will be the very worst.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 11:02 AM
How many of those top RBs have missed 23 games over the span of 7 years? Even in his prime, Henry was an injury risk. He missed most of the 2004 and 2005 seasons.

LT has only missed one regular season game in his entire career. Willie Parker has only missed 2 games over the last three years. Portis has missed 12 games in 6 seasons. Edge has missed 16 games in 9 seasons.

Jamal Lewis has missed 6 games in 7 years not counting his season ending freak ACL injury in 2001. Even counting that entire year, he still has missed fewer games than Henry (22).

Even McGahee who came out of college with a major injury has been more consistant than Henry.

I would say Travis Henry is the most injury prone and inconsistant top tier RB in the league. The proof is in the pudding. 7 years in the league and just over 6000 total yards and 38 total TDs. That's an average of 870 yards per year and 5 TDs a year. Compare those numbers to all of the other top tier runners. I bet they will be the very worst.

I'm not worried about seven years. This is now. Henry indicated he is doing
some special things to get into shape he's never been before. I'm eager to
see what that means on the field because, if he can stay healthy, he is a
beast.

-----

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm not worried about seven years. This is now. Henry indicated he is doing
some special things to get into shape he's never been before. I'm eager to
see what that means on the field because, if he can stay healthy, he is a
beast.

-----

I agree, but like I said...that is a big big big IF.

Retired_Member_001
04-30-2008, 11:08 AM
I'm not worried about seven years. This is now. Henry indicated he is doing
some special things to get into shape he's never been before. I'm eager to
see what that means on the field because, if he can stay healthy, he is a
beast.

-----

I'm making the same point as LRTagger. Over a long term period, Travis Henry is very injury prone. There's alot of IF he can stay healthy going on. Then there's IF Selvin Young can stay healthy to take Henry's place. Then there's also the question of IF Torain can develop into a good running back.

I don't mean to be negative, but the running back position is one big IF. The biggest of the IF's being Travis Henry.

Tned
04-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Hahaha... Shanahan, the guy that never tips his hand in a draft. The guy that runs the extra mile to conceal who his draft intentions. The guy that brings in prospect after prospect with no intention of drafting them. Yea, I'll believe what Mike Shanahan says before a draft. LOL :listen: :listen: :listen: :laugh: :laugh:


http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9090079?source=rss


Is Clady the second-best offensive tackle of this remarkable offensive tackle class? After Jake Long, who went with the first pick to Miami, the Broncos rated Clady second, Chris Williams third and Branden Albert fourth. Had those three tackles been gone by the No. 12 pick, the Broncos would have taken running back Jonathan Stewart.

Broncos evaluators were justified by the teams picking immediately behind them. Carolina took Stewart at No. 13, Williams went to Chicago at 14 and Kansas City took Albert at 15

topscribe
04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
I'm making the same point as LRTagger. Over a long term period, Travis Henry is very injury prone. There's alot of IF he can stay healthy going on. Then there's IF Selvin Young can stay healthy to take Henry's place. Then there's also the question of IF Torain can develop into a good running back.

I don't mean to be negative, but the running back position is one big IF. The biggest of the IF's being Travis Henry.

If Champ can stay healthy.
If D.J. can stay healthy.
If Dumervil can stay healthy.
If Scheffler can stay healthy.
If Cutler can stay healthy.
If Brady can stay healthy.
If Peyton can stay healthy.

Yes, there are a lot of "ifs" in football, aren't there?

I'm not stating anything out of reason. I'm not oblivious to Henry's injury
history. I was only pointing out that he was taking extra steps this year,
and we'll see what happens.

So what's up with that?

-----

Retired_Member_001
04-30-2008, 11:30 AM
If Champ can stay healthy.
If D.J. can stay healthy.
If Dumervil can stay healthy.
If Scheffler can stay healthy.
If Cutler can stay healthy.
If Brady can stay healthy.
If Peyton can stay healthy.

Yes, there are a lot of "ifs" in football, aren't there?

I'm not stating anything out of reason. I'm not oblivious to Henry's injury
history. I was only pointing out that he was taking extra steps this year,
and we'll see what happens.

So what's up with that?

-----

The thing is, all the guys you mentioned have never had injury problems in their football career.

Henry has big time. Selvin Young is showing signs of injury problem and Torain is widely unproven.

There are alot of ifs in everything. However, some you can avoid by being sensible.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 11:38 AM
The thing is, all the guys you mentioned have never had injury problems in their football career.

Henry has big time. Selvin Young is showing signs of injury problem and Torain is widely unproven.

There are alot of ifs in everything. However, some you can avoid by being sensible.

Young does not have a long injury history. What damaged his college career
was basically one injury: a severly fractured ankle that took a couple years
to heal.

To Young, the comparison with other injuries in the league do apply because
Young does not have a deep history of multiple injuries.

Getting back to Henry . . . ah hell, I can't get my point across. I was only
trying to say let's see what happens, but now I'm getting irritated.

Regarding "ifs," every position in football for every team is loaded with ifs.
Every single player is one injury away from not playing anymore. If Cutler
can bring his arm forward, he'll throw a pass, if he doesn't pull a muscle on
the way. If I fly to New York, I will get there in a few hours, if the plane
doesn't go down. At my age, I don't need to be educated in "ifs."

-----

Lonestar
04-30-2008, 11:41 AM
If Champ can stay healthy.
If D.J. can stay healthy.
If Dumervil can stay healthy.
If Scheffler can stay healthy.
If Cutler can stay healthy.
If Brady can stay healthy.
If Peyton can stay healthy.

Yes, there are a lot of "ifs" in football, aren't there?

I'm not stating anything out of reason. I'm not oblivious to Henry's injury
history. I was only pointing out that he was taking extra steps this year,
and we'll see what happens.

So what's up with that?

-----


most of your IF's listed above have not shown a propensity to missing games over their careers like thenry has..

I wonder why he NOW feels he needs to do something "extra steps" to stop the trend?

Has the light bulb finally come on or is talk cheap?


I believe that players have a private life and if they wish to have 150 kids I could care less UNTIL it becomes PUBLIC. Then I will condemn with all of my fury. Anyone that does not think that most of these cretins are not role models is living in fantasy land. Like it or not when one of them gets arrested for beating his wife/girlfriend/dog it is an example.. Fortunately my kids are grown and now know better.. Many impoverished kids do not and if anything these are the kids these morons should be breaking their ass to be a positive role model for...

I hope to GOD that this team NEVER goes after another ME first type and stays on track with the higher character guys. AS I believe that they also have talent we just have to scout and evaluate better.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 11:52 AM
most of your IF's listed above have not shown a propensity to missing games over their careers like thenry has..

See post #190. For pity's sake.


I wonder why he NOW feels he needs to do something "extra steps" to stop the trend?Maybe he's finally grown up. Who knows? I was older than he when I was
still screwing up. The only thing I'm saying is let's wait and see.

-----

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 11:57 AM
NB, what I have observed from you is your tendency to get into pissing
contests. It might be a good idea to observe how other posters here listen to
each other and to develop that ability for yourself. :tsk:

-----

I thought I was just replying to disagreeing comments made about my comments. So then it becomes a debate with such as yourself.

Lonestar
04-30-2008, 11:58 AM
See post #190. For pity's sake.

Maybe he's finally grown up. Who knows? I was older than he when I was
still screwing up. The only thing I'm saying is let's wait and see.

-----

I was in the middle of posting when you laid that one on.. Some of us are not whizzbang typists..


I answer posts as I see them not read the thread to its end and then reply..

Tned
04-30-2008, 12:00 PM
I believe that players have a private life and if they wish to have 150 kids I could care less UNTIL it becomes PUBLIC. Then I will condemn with all of my fury. Anyone that does not think that most of these cretins are not role models is living in fantasy land. Like it or not when one of them gets arrested for beating his wife/girlfriend/dog it is an example.. Fortunately my kids are grown and now know better.. Many impoverished kids do not and if anything these are the kids these morons should be breaking their ass to be a positive role model for...



Anyone that believes that the average football player is going to live up to the standards of those of us with highly conservative/christian values is living in a fantasy land.

A GREAT deal of the NFL is made up of kids from the inner cities or other very rough places. Places where the choice was play football or join a gang. In many cases, because of their athletic talent, they were 'helped' through high school and college, in order to remain eligible to play.

So, I can only speak for myself when I say that I don't live in some christian fantasy world where I will judge everyone around me by my morals; that I will fantasize about a world where most of the guys in the NFL are not street kids that were lucky enough to have enough talent to get out, but still are making their share of mistakes before and after escaping from their living hell.

I don't live in the fantasy world where I believe that when you rip a kid from gang invested poverty and hand him a couple miillion that he will bow down and become the perfect child of God that does no wrong.

I have my own personal moral standard and I hold MYSELF to that standard. When I am watching movies, when I am reading what other people type on a message board, when I am watching football players on TV, I don't hold them to MY MORAL standard, for IMHO that is God's job, not mine.

So, I guess as you can see from the above, you hit a nerve with your 'fantasy' comment, but I think you might have it wrong about who is living in a fantasy world.

This is nothing new. These guys have been doing variations of this for generations. It is up to the parents to help their children choose role models. It is completely unfair to put the blame on the kid that chose to pull himself out of hell and follow a football career, but makes a few mistakes (yet a hell of a lot less mistakes than his neighbors) along the way.

Requiem / The Dagda
04-30-2008, 12:04 PM
How many times are we going to make the "if" excuses for players? "If. . ." "If. . ." -- hasn't this been the tune Broncos fans have been singing for players that by all means end up getting canned at season's start or season's end the past few years now?

Lonestar
04-30-2008, 12:09 PM
Anyone that believes that the average football player is going to live up to the standards of those of us with highly conservative/christian values is living in a fantasy land.

A GREAT deal of the NFL is made up of kids from the inner cities or other very rough places. Places where the choice was play football or join a gang. In many cases, because of their athletic talent, they were 'helped' through high school and college, in order to remain eligible to play.

So, I can only speak for myself when I say that I don't live in some christian fantasy world where I will judge everyone around me by my morals; that I will fantasize about a world where most of the guys in the NFL are not street kids that were lucky enough to have enough talent to get out, but still are making their share of mistakes before and after escaping from their living hell.

I don't live in the fantasy world where I believe that when you rip a kid from gang invested poverty and hand him a couple miillion that he will bow down and become the perfect child of God that does no wrong.

I have my own personal moral standard and I hold MYSELF to that standard. When I am watching movies, when I am reading what other people type on a message board, when I am watching football players on TV, I don't hold them to MY MORAL standard, for IMHO that is God's job, not mine.

So, I guess as you can see from the above, you hit a nerve with your 'fantasy' comment, but I think you might have it wrong about who is living in a fantasy world.

This is nothing new. These guys have been doing variations of this for generations. It is up to the parents to help their children choose role models. It is completely unfair to put the blame on the kid that chose to pull himself out of hell and follow a football career, but makes a few mistakes (yet a hell of a lot less mistakes than his neighbors) along the way.

I'm not stupid I understand everything you have said. BUT one could/would think that these football, basketball wonders would have a better appreciation of how far they have come and would look around the locker room and try to make a difference instead of perpetuating it..

But I guess that is not possible in some of these cretins.. Perhaps they are the ones I would prefer to play on the bungals and not in DEN. We used to have this a few years ago BUT IMO mikey has failed miserably in the drafts in the past and has now (prior to this year) tried to hit home runs with the marginally ethical players.

If one has zero expectations, he will never do anything but achieve them..

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 12:12 PM
OH I agree when that happened it screwed up many a MOCK draft..

Dorsey vs clady NO comparsion IMO.. But my comment was they would have taken clady and then come beck for albert if he was still around..

I still think Kc would have started a RUN on OT's had they not taken Dorsey.. Who knows for sure who would have been available #12..

The only difference was the Rams selected Chris Long when most thought they would take Glenn Dorsey. It's as though Chris Long and Dorsey switched draft spots. The top ten teams passed on OTs cause had they wanted one, they would have took em. They knew that none of the top OTs would be on the board when they come around to bat the 2nd time. Just look at the top 10 guys drafted, they fit just as most projected. And even if 3 OTs did go before us, that just pushes 3 of those top 10 guys down to us. Jerod Mayo would look good next to DJ and Boss.

Lonestar
04-30-2008, 12:34 PM
I'm not all that sure he produced anything more than most of our backs might have done against those weak sister defense he played against the first four games.. If memory serves correctly they were all in the bottom ten at the time when I (about game 6 or so) looked at their numbers against the rush..
I had been impressed the the argument "lead the league in rushing before he was injured" comment many make.. SO I looked up the numbers at the time.
Most were in the bottom five..

The EOY ranking were..
OAK 31 146 per game thenry got 128 -18 yards under average they gave up
BUF 25 124 per game thenry got 139 +15 yards under average they gave up
CAR 18 110 per game thenry got 35 -75 yards under average they gave up
Colt 15 106 per game thenry got 131 +25 yards under average they gave up


Minus 53 yards against the average rushing yards given up..

Sorry but he was a leader against poor teams.. Nothing IMO to write home about..

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 12:49 PM
Young does not have a long injury history. What damaged his college career
was basically one injury: a severly fractured ankle that took a couple years
to heal.

To Young, the comparison with other injuries in the league do apply because
Young does not have a deep history of multiple injuries.

Getting back to Henry . . . ah hell, I can't get my point across. I was only
trying to say let's see what happens, but now I'm getting irritated.

Regarding "ifs," every position in football for every team is loaded with ifs.
Every single player is one injury away from not playing anymore. If Cutler
can bring his arm forward, he'll throw a pass, if he doesn't pull a muscle on
the way. If I fly to New York, I will get there in a few hours, if the plane
doesn't go down. At my age, I don't need to be educated in "ifs."

-----

No need to get irritated. It is jsut a discussion...we all have differencing opinions about Henry, but if he ends up being the starting back this year we will all be rooting for him when the season starts and he takes his first handoff.

Here is the way I look at it...taking into account only LT's and Henry's injury history (leaving out skills and stats, etc) which would you feel more comfortable with starting for us this year?

I don't feel comfortable putting our running game on Henry's shoulders. Sure he can be good if he is healthy, but he has never shown that he can be. Frankly, no tailback on our roster has shown they can carry the rock consistantly throughout a 16 game season. It is a bit scary. I'm just confused as to why no one would want to bring a guy like that into Denver even if it costs a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

lex
04-30-2008, 12:50 PM
For those draft experts who suggested we spend the #12 on Stewart or Mendenhall and pick up a 2nd or 3rd rate OT in the later rounds, the results of the draft proved that you guys had absolutely no clue what you guys were talking about. After we drafted Clady, 5 OTs(including Alberts) were drafted in the next 9 positions. The Texans also drafted 1 with their #26. Had we not grab Clady when we did, we'd be licking our chops right now.

Mendenhall, who I too thought was the best RB in the draft dropped down to the 23rd behind Stewart and Felix Jones. Apparently Coach didn't think too highly of Mendenhall or he would have made a move for him(trade 1st & 2nd rd of 09').
WHY? Because Coach knows Travis Henry is his "MAN" in Denver. Coach was all gitty over Henry early in the season before he got banged up. Toughest running RB in Denver in a while the way he breaks tackle after tackle. I'm foreseeing a 1500 yard, 10+ TD yr for Travis Henry.

The draft is now over. I can't wait til camp and the pre-season comes to tie up a few lose ends; then we can make a run at them Chargers. :elefant: :elefant: :elefant:

First of all the very idea of him being on the roster, let alone starting, makes me feel like vomiting. Secondly, how did he really outperform Selvin Young? They like his toughness? What does that even mean? His average last year was 4.1 per carry. I dont thin it was 5 but Im guessing it was closer to 5 before the injury...so basically he didnt play well when he came back from injury...or, put another way, he didnt play well through injury. As I seem to recall that was Tatum Bells biggest problem and we chose to run him out of town. Seriously, what has this dude done to deserve the starting job???!!! The running back situation is disqusting.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 01:00 PM
No need to get irritated. It is jsut a discussion...we all have differencing opinions about Henry, but if he ends up being the starting back this year we will all be rooting for him when the season starts and he takes his first handoff.

Here is the way I look at it...taking into account only LT's and Henry's injury history (leaving out skills and stats, etc) which would you feel more comfortable with starting for us this year?

I don't feel comfortable putting our running game on Henry's shoulders. Sure he can be good if he is healthy, but he has never shown that he can be. Frankly, no tailback on our roster has shown they can carry the rock consistantly throughout a 16 game season. It is a bit scary. I'm just confused as to why no one would want to bring a guy like that into Denver even if it costs a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

That's a dumb question, let alone irrelevant.

Through it all, my message was extreeeemly simple: Let's see what
happens. That is my entire opinion.

I only tried to provide the factors to the situation.

I don't know why people took up an issue with that. But I'm through here.
Let the pissing contests continue. :whoknows:

-----

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 01:08 PM
First of all the very idea of him being on the roster, let alone starting, makes me feel like vomiting. Secondly, how did he really outperform Selvin Young? They like his toughness? What does that even mean? His average last year was 4.1 per carry. I dont thin it was 5 but Im guessing it was closer to 5 before the injury...so basically he didnt play well when he came back from injury...or, put another way, he didnt play well through injury. As I seem to recall that was Tatum Bells biggest problem and we chose to run him out of town. Seriously, what has this dude done to deserve the starting job???!!! The running back situation is disqusting.

I would debate with you but you don't know what you are talking about and I havn't the time to waste.

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 01:16 PM
LOL why are all the pro-Henry people getting their feathers so ruffled. So some of us don't care for him. We get called "dumb" and "stupid" for it. We're all on the same team, just difference of opinion....but whatever...

"well if you dont agree with me then you are dumb"...I guess I will just continue on with my dumb opinion.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 01:21 PM
I would debate with you but you don't know what you are talking about and I havn't the time to waste.

Yes, Lex is very knowledgeable. He just disagrees with you, that's all.

-----

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 01:21 PM
It's just pointless to try to teach you guys any football sense. It's time consuming and I rather not try. Next time anyone has a questions or thinks my comments are off, just refer to my signature cause If I didn't not reply, I felt it wasn't worth my time.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 01:26 PM
It's just pointless to try to teach you guys any football sense. It's time consuming and I rather not try. Next time anyone has a questions or thinks my comments are off, just refer to my signature cause If I didn't not reply, I felt it wasn't worth my time.

You came to a group of extremely knowledgeable football people. (I don't
necessarily include myself.) Perhaps your problem is revealed in this very post
of yours. You think you need to teach the likes of Lex, Dream, Boss, Coach,
JR, etc., etc. about football.

This is what I implied in my previous post. You need to take time out to learn
from them, too, just as I try to do.

Try it. You might like it. :coffee:

-----

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 01:28 PM
Topscribe was right, I been arguing to much on this board. I realize it's a waste of time to try to teach people who don't know squat.

"Arguing over the internet is like the Special Olympics because even if you win, you're still a retard." -quoting some funny blogger.

I'll just wait til the season goes into full swing then I'll come back to see how right I was and how wrong you Travis Henry doubters are. Just like I was about the draft.

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 01:31 PM
There are differencing opinions in every walk of life. Just because people see something in a way different than yourself does not make them lesser than you. If everyone agreed, this message board wouldnt exist or every post would have 128712874123 high fives.

Requiem / The Dagda
04-30-2008, 01:31 PM
Henry is a bum.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 01:33 PM
Henry is a bum.

:rolleyes: And I just got through talking about your football acumen . . .

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
04-30-2008, 01:34 PM
:rolleyes: And I just got through talking about your football acumen . . .

-----

I thought I'd spare you all the review on his poor moral decision making off the field and how he hasn't been able to produce on the field. I made it short and to the point.

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 01:46 PM
There are differencing opinions in every walk of life. Just because people see something in a way different than yourself does not make them lesser than you. If everyone agreed, this message board wouldnt exist or every post would have 128712874123 high fives.

I totally agree with you. This is the internet and forums are for debating. I don't think anyone is lesser than me. I just think those that I debate with don't know what they are squawking about. It's pointless and tiresome for me to point out what I think is so obvious, especially when I have to repeat the same general points.

If it's worth while to reply, I will, but if I don't, refer to my signature. When the season is in full swing, you'll have to check in with me if you wanna jump on the Travis Henry is "God" bandwagon.

Tned
04-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Topscribe was right, I been arguing to much on this board. I realize it's a waste of time to try to teach people who don't know squat.

"Arguing over the internet is like the Special Olympics because even if you win, you're still a retard." -quoting some funny blogger.

I'll just wait til the season goes into full swing then I'll come back to see how right I was and how wrong you Travis Henry doubters are. Just like I was about the draft.

First of all, making fun of kids in the Special Olympics is below contempt -- quoting myself

Second, if you didn't act like a 13 year old who got his first computer, you might get more respect and people might respect your opinion more.

Word of advice -- Try and respect all among us, even those competing in the Special Olympics and try and make your arguments without constantly calling everyone that disagrees with you an idiot. If you do that, you might not come off as one yourself.

T

omac
04-30-2008, 01:52 PM
mac, first I want to say, I don't hate Henry! But do I consider him one of the best RB's in the game? NO. Do I think he is a good back when he is healthy? YES.

I do disagree with you about not having any big plays as being a good thing. Even despite the lousy field position we were moving the ball. How many 10+ drives did we have when we only got a field goal? We had great #'s but we weren't putting up points.

Our red zone attempts were way up, we were driving the length of the field, and we would stall out in the red zone. I agree with you about winning the TOP battle. That's great! But it works the best if you can have 2 or 3 big plays a game then run the clock while you sit on your lead. Beings we didn't have many big plays we never seemed to have the lead.

Remember the JAX game? We only had the ball 7 times. When you play ball control offense you need to be able to brake a couple big plays a game to put points on the board. That was our biggest problem. Even after the first 4 games when we had all the great #'s. We were like 25th in long scoring plays.

It's really hard to win when you consistently have to drive the length of the field to score.




I would not trade Henry for Bell!

I'm just saying we need some explosion coming from our back field to go along with the power running. I didn't see explosion from Henry, However, if we can get 70 yards on 15 tuff carries out of Henry then someone needs to be able to come in and give us 50 - 70 yards from 10 explosive carries.

my point is that Henry doesn't seem to be a feature back. He is not the end all when it come to the position. He just isn't or at least he wasn't a "Big Play" guy, even when healthy. At least I never seen it. I suspect if he was then we would have scored some more points while he was healthy :D

He is closer to Bettis then he is to TD...

First of all, good post. :cheers:

Right now, we do have the combo of the grinding back, with Henry, and the ones who can break a long run, like Selvin and Andre. Watch this season as the opposition's run defenders will look stronger at the start, but considerably weaker later in the game. Then we'll be able to use the speed of Hall and Young, and even open up the passing game. That was basically the same strategy the Giants used throughout the playoffs; they use their bruising back earlier in the game and rest their speedster; initially, it doesn't look like he is very successful, gaining very little yardage. But later, the defense has been tenderized so the quick guy comes in and is effective, more so than he would've been earlier in the game.

I don't even think Torain gets much playing time; I think he's more of a backup that could develop into a starter in the future, but not this season. I doubt that any of the RBs taken by other teams after the 1st round will affect a game the way Selvin(edited) and Hall have. We got pretty lucky in acquiring them.

Btw, to clarify, I'm not against big plays ... I'm definitely for it. What I am against is trying to run way too many big plays; those will get you 3 and out more often than not. The best offensive teams in modern football are able to consistently get small to average chunks of yardage, either through rushing, or west coast style short passes. Doing those things consistently will set up the big play, whether it's a big run, or a deep pass.

The reason the Raiders offense is so much better now than recent years is that Kiffin made a commitment to hard nosed running. Oakland's backs were not spectacular, but they are hard runners. I think Oakland finished the season ranked 6 or 7 on rushing offense.

I've seen Henry's ability, and to me, it is definitely top-notch. I don't compare him to Bettis at all. Travis may not be super-fast, but he is very quick, when he jukes defenders, and when he cuts back, drives through the hole or goes outside. He does have that explosiveness. The only thing he doesn't have is break-away speed, but honestly, unless your name is AD, how many midfield TDs happen by a team in one season? Not that often, I think.

So, yeah, speed is great to have, but what teams really fear is that they can't stop an opponent from consistently rushing for 4+ yards per carry. At least that's what was going through my mind with Denver's run D. I wasn't concerned at all about a possible break-away TD; farthest thing from my mind.

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 01:56 PM
I thought I'd spare you all the review on his poor moral decision making off the field and how he hasn't been able to produce on the field. I made it short and to the point.

*******************EDIT***********EDIT************ ******

We were 2-1, after losing to a tough Jags team, then Travis Henry's rib and knees started aching, his test came out and the team really went down hill. Not saying, Henry being hurt was the only cause as the defense was horrendous, but it definitely was a big part.

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 02:03 PM
First of all, making fun of kids in the Special Olympics is below contempt -- quoting myself

Second, if you didn't act like a 13 year old who got his first computer, you might get more respect and people might respect your opinion more.

Word of advice -- Try and respect all among us, even those competing in the Special Olympics and try and make your arguments without constantly calling everyone that disagrees with you an idiot. If you do that, you might not come off as one yourself.

T


Come on, it's a joke. No one is that cruel to make fun of the Special Olympics and mean it. Loosen up.

So, people are disagreeing with me not because of my points but because they don't like me? I thought the focus is the topic.

I'll be charging for tickets for the Travis Henry bandwagon that I already built. They're on sale now, prices will go up as the season comes closer and I'll be sure to double charge you and a few others.

LRtagger
04-30-2008, 02:09 PM
Come on, it's a joke. No one is that cruel to make fun of the Special Olympics and mean it. Loosen up.

So, people are disagreeing with me not because of my points but because they don't like me? I thought the focus is topic.

I'll be charging for tickets for the Travis Henry bandwagon that I already built. They're on sale now, prices will go up as the season comes closer and I'll be sure to double charge you and a few others.


Sorry, there was already a Travis Henry bandwagon at the beginning of the 2007 season. The wheels fell off after 3 weeks...I guess there were too many people on it.

topscribe
04-30-2008, 02:12 PM
See this? Despite the off field issues and injuries that hindered Travis Henry's season, people such as Dream is too ignorant to see why. We were 2-1, after losing to a tough Jags team, then Travis Henry's rib and knees started aching, his test came out and the team really went down hill. Not saying, Henry being hurt was the only cause as the defense was horrendous, but it definitely was a big part.

Your personal allusions toward other posters are going to get you a vacation.

Just a fair warning.

-----

topscribe
04-30-2008, 02:13 PM
Sorry, there was already a Travis Henry bandwagon at the beginning of the 2007 season. The wheels fell off after 3 weeks...I guess there were too many people on it.


:lol: Have to give you props on that one. :lol:

-----

Nature Boy
04-30-2008, 02:19 PM
Your personal allusions toward other posters are going to get you a vacation.

Just a fair warning.

-----

Oh,Oh, the yellow flag? fair, I guess "ignorant" is an insult. I will forever refrain from personal attacks again. apologies. :woot:

omac
04-30-2008, 02:19 PM
The thing that worries me the most about Henry (besides his heath and off-field issues) is his production in the red zone. He had ONE TD in our 7 wins last season. His other THREE TDs all came in losses.

He isnt going to break off any long TD runs, so he needs to be able to punch it in when we are in the redzone. I know we had Oline problems last year, but with his size and strength he should be able to move the pile and score TDs.

I wouldn't worry too much about; I've re-watched a few of the games, and sometimes, defenders would get penetration way too easily. When that happens, even the best RBs have difficulty doing much but trying to fall forward for possitive yards. Also, some of the playcalling at the red zone was conservatively predictable, as in run run pass. :D

Our offensive line looks to be better this season, with the return of 2 key starters, and the draft of a possible (inexperienced) upgrade. The line is also more experienced now than they were last season. I think SportsGuru posted an article about how much more penetration we were getting when Nalen was in the lineup, as opposed to his temporary replacement. Plus, Jay's got a full season under his belt, Travis has a lot to prove, and Young and Hall have proven their worth when they were forced into the #1 spot due to injuries.

Also, Pittsburgh is a running team first, but their main backs also don't have much TDs, with Parker having 2 and Davenport having 5. When you're a running team, the opposition defends against the run. Not surprisingly, they were also having a few OL problems.

AD is great, but his OL makes him look so much better.

Tned
04-30-2008, 02:25 PM
Your personal allusions toward other posters are going to get you a vacation.

Just a fair warning.

-----

What ^ he ^ said...

Tned
04-30-2008, 02:27 PM
Oh,Oh, the yellow flag? fair, I guess "ignorant" is an insult. I will forever refrain from personal attacks again. apologies. :woot:

Wise move and you might want to can the sarcasm when apologizing for crossing the line.

broncohead
04-30-2008, 06:52 PM
First of all there are a number of players that have off the field issues that can be good if not great. I could give plenty of examples but most of the people on here can name a hand full. Off the field issues is part of football same with injuries. It's pointless to argue that someone can be good if only he wasn't hurt or didn't make the off the field mistakes. It's all part of being an NFL football player and if they keep making mistakes or keep getting injured they will be just another player. Like Travis Henry.******EDIT******

fcspikeit
04-30-2008, 09:50 PM
I totally agree with you. This is the internet and forums are for debating. I don't think anyone is lesser than me. I just think those that I debate with don't know what they are squawking about. It's pointless and tiresome for me to point out what I think is so obvious, especially when I have to repeat the same general points.

If it's worth while to reply, I will, but if I don't, refer to my signature. When the season is in full swing, you'll have to check in with me if you wanna jump on the Travis Henry is "God" bandwagon.

Unbelievable!

If you keep this BS up I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to read anything you have to say...

I think I speek for most when I say, The only one getting anything out of your post's is yourself. If your not at least getting something out of your effort here, you really are wasting your time!!