Grade our Draft

[lex]

Same as yesterday but encompassing the whole draft.

[Nick]

The Broncos spent the most of their picks on the defensive line last year, and it still is a concern for us. So the Broncos made the a priority in the off-season and in free agency to focus on defense.

We had a lot of needs in our re-building process and we were able to get this done with out sacrificing future picks and taking a risk by moving down and to lose out in a lot of positions (WR and OT Mainly).

Our needs going into off season:

S -
WR
FB
RB-depth
OLB
ILB
DT
CB-depth
OT
OG-depth
K
PR

Prior to the draft:

S: Re-signed Abdullah, Marlon McCree, and Marquand Manuel signed and Lynch came back
CB: Re-Signed Foxy

WR: S. Parker, D. Jackson, and Colbert signed

DT: Dewayne Robertson traded for

DE: Engelberger re-signed

MLB: Niko Koutouvides signed

OLB: Boss Bailey signed


Draft:


Round 1, Pick 12 (12) Ryan Clady OT 6'6" 316 Boise State

Clady is a perfect pick. I liked Albert at this spot prior to draft but really thought Clady was not going to drop to us. By far the 2nd best Tackle and most athletic lineman. He fits into our zone-blocking scheme perfectly and a instant starter. That is huge to put tackle and instant starter in the same sentence as the Broncos.

The are some possibilities he might start at right tackle. This also creates major depth and we will have some battles for the other tackles spot between Pears, Kuper and Harris.

I think Kuper will end up moving inside and compete with Holland and Harris will beat out Pears.

If the Broncos did not grab a linemen at this spot... we would have got beat up in the draft. This pick almost seemed to break open a tackle and guard frenzy. Leaving a lot of teams that have major needs unable to accommodate this area. There was a lot of losers that had to trade up and missed out by trading down in the draft. It almost seemed like they dictated the OL frenzy.

Round 2, Pick 11 (42) Eddie Royal WR 5'10" 184 Virginia Tech

Royal has been compared to Carolina wide receiver Steve Smith.

He's incredibly strong for his size and pretty quick. He is a little raw but should be a solid slot receiver with potential of moving up to #2. He stole the show at the combine. Putting up a grip o reps having a great vertical and maybe showed the most fluid route running out of "every" receiver. This was my favorite and most sexy pick of the draft. He is by far the best return specialist in the draft. A lot of people we mention Desean Jackson... but from a person that goes to all the Cal home games and watches them (As well as USC / watch do not go because in Northern California). Jackson will have one or two ESPN highlights but for the rest of the games he gets shut down on man. Hawkins even made him look like he was the #2 wide receiver and Hawkins can not even catch a ball… Great pick whom weighs about 20 lbs bigger the Jackson, able to break tackles, great moves, known for YACS, and has big play ability. Reminds me of a guy in between Steve smith and B-Marsh with a tad of Hester. If any one is familiar with VT they are not known for offense and their QB’s were awful and that is a understatement. There were about 3 wide receivers taken prior to Royal.. After they took him Wide receivers were getting picked like crazy. Almost like they got in right when stocks started to go up.

Round 4, Pick 9 (108) Kory Lichtensteiger OG 6'3" 310 Bowling Green

Great technique and will be able to play Guard and Center. He was projected to go in the 5th round and felt that they could have waited for the next 4th rounder for him. There was a big possibility the Texans could have took him prior to the Broncos next pick. Would have been a great fit for them to. Broncos made a point that offensive line seems was their point of emphasis. I was skeptical in the first minute with this selection but he dominated everyone but Ellis. However he did not have much support to play a team of that caliber in the interior. More I look at this pick. I like it. Note sexy but adds much needed depth.

Round 4, Pick 20 (119) (From Redskins) Jack Williams CB 5'9" 186 Kent State

Another guy that tore it up with his workouts. Depending on whos draft board was projected between the 15th and 18th CB in the draft and a to be taken in the 4th round. I am surprised he fell that far. Specially with the run at Corner in the draft. This guy can flat out fly. He ran a 4.32 at his Pro Day and very good numbers in cone drill and vertical jump. Very underrated. Love the pick and he should be able to start in dime. You can never have enough corners and you truly need quality depth at corner in this league.


Round 5, Pick 4 (139) (From Raiders) Ryan Torain RB 6'1" 222 Arizona State

Torain is going to be a project of development. Was projected higher before the year but slid due to injury. He is a down hill runner. Runs between tackles well. Good size and quickness for his size. A lot of people will compare him to Mike Anderson.

Round 5, Pick 13 (148) Carlton Powell DT 6'3" 300 Virginia Tech

I did not have Carlton Powell should add good depth at DT. Plays bigger then his size and was a starter for about 3 years for a very strong and productive program. They must have been really high on this guy because I know back in the very beginning of April I was reading on how we were showing a lot of interest towards him.

Round 6, Pick 17 (183) (From Texans) Spencer Larsen OLB 6'2" 243 Arizona

One Tough motha. I like this guy and very surprised he fell all the way to the 6th round! Wow.

Round 7, Pick 13 (220) Josh Barrett S 6'2" 223 Arizona State

Barrett… Most people had him as the 2nd best safety in the draft. Must have fell do to playing time last season. Great numbers at combine and an absolute STEAL.


Round 7, Pick 20 (227) (From Buccaneers) Peyton Hillis FB 6'1" 240 Arkansas

Hillis is best fullback in the draft. He opened the lanes for two backs that went in the first. McFadden who was selected to the Raiders and Jones who was the third back taken to Dallas. He is an all around FB with great size, speed, catching ability, and blocking ability. For him not to be picked in the 3rd or 4th had me scratching my head. Another STEAL! I never thought he would even fall to BRONCOS FIRST 4TH ROUNDER.


Check list:

S - Check
WR - Check
FB - Check
RB - Check
OLB - Check
ILB - Check
DT - Check
CB - Check
OT - Check
OG/C - Check
K/PR - Not yet but a whole lot of prospects never were selected... Do not really pay attention to this postion. I think we signed some one that used to be on cincy and think we supposed to meet with Vanderjet or somthinafter the draft...

I give our draft and off season a A PLUS!



.

[Bronco9798]

I personally like what we did. I have no qualms yet. You draft for positions and I think we addressed some needed areas. Now it's up to the guys picked to determine if it was a good draft or not.

[lex]

OK, here is a breakdown of my grading:





Rd Name Weighted Grade
1 Ryan Clady 7 23% 2 0.451612903
2 Eddie Royal 6 19% 3 0.580645161
4 Kory Lichtensteiger 4 13% 2 0.258064516
4 Jack Williams 4 13% 2 0.258064516
5 Ryan Torain 3 10% 0 0
5 Carlton Powell 3 10% 3 0.290322581
6 Spencer Larsen 2 6% 3 0.193548387
7 Josh Barrett 1 3% 4 0.129032258
7 Peyton Hillis 1 3% 4 0.129032258
31 2.290322581


As you can see overall its a 2.29 which equates to a C+ since my scale was A=4, B=3, C=2, and D=1. A B- would have been 2.5. So 2.25 is the dividing line for a C+.

I gave Clady a C because we could have chosen any OT not named Jake Long and we took the one who played against the worst level of competition and therefore least proven...and probably least pro ready. That doesnt mean he's a bad player but its in relation to who we could have had.

I changed my grade on Royal. I like him as a player but there were other areas I would have emphasized here and drafting him meant forgoing something more important...not only that this was a frustration foul by Shanahan because we wasted a 2nd in getting Walker and Shanahan is going ahab on us with his quest to land Devin Hester. If he likes Hester so much, whey did we kick to him.

Ryan Torain was a dreadful pick and it caused me to dock the grade on the Spencer Larsen pick. If we wanted a ILB, we could have had Goff where we took Torain, whom we likely could have signed as a UFA or drafted later. Massive reach in addition to being a bad pick of the Cecil Sapp variety.

I really like Spencer Larsen but we could have had Goff earlier so what would have been an A went to a B.

Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis had tremendous value for where they were picked.

[broncohead]

I don't like grading a draft before I get the chance to see them play but for now I give it a C. There were a few guys on the board that I would have rather had in the 2nd, 4th (119), and 5th (139). It will be interesting to see how these guys pan out.

[BroncoWave]

I give it a solid B+. We got 3 guys who I think will be starting in week 1 in Clady, Royal, and Hillis. I also like that center whose name I can't pronounce. Overall, we could have done better but this was a solid draft IMO.

[Tned]

I gave the same grade as yesterday, B. I think it has the potential to be a little better, but that depends on whether Torain pans out. The only pick I questions was Torain.


Our biggest need was O line, we took an OT in the first.
Our second biggest need was WR, we took one in the second (who can also help in the return game)
Again, our biggest need was O line, took a C/G in the fourth
Getting a fast CB always makes sense, especially if Foxy plays some S. Also, this is a position where depth is critical.
Having struggled in short yardage, maybe Torain helps us in that regard. He is supposed to be a one cut and go, Broncos style back. Time will tell.
Rounding out the draft we picked a run-stopping DT, tough LB, fast safety and an all around solid FB.


The only questionable pick was Torain. It wasn't a flashy draft, but it was one that filled many needs and while you typically can't judge a draft for a couple years, at first blush considering the number holes we needed to fill, we couldn't ask for much more. We didn't have the luxury of moving around to get a 'flashy' pick or two.

[Bronco9798]

I gave the same grade as yesterday, B. I think it has the potential to be a little better, but that depends on whether Torain pans out. The only pick I questions was Torain.


Our biggest need was O line, we took an OT in the first.
Our second biggest need was WR, we took one in the second (who can also help in the return game)
Again, our biggest need was O line, took a C/G in the fourth
Getting a fast CB always makes sense, especially if Foxy plays some S. Also, this is a position where depth is critical.
Having struggled in short yardage, maybe Torain helps us in that regard. He is supposed to be a one cut and go, Broncos style back. Time will tell.
Rounding out the draft we picked a run-stopping DT, tough LB, fast safety and an all around solid FB.


The only questionable pick was Torain. It wasn't a flashy draft, but it was one that filled many needs and while you typically can't judge a draft for a couple years, at first blush considering the number holes we needed to fill, we couldn't ask for much more. We didn't have the luxury of moving around to get a 'flashy' pick or two.

Amen!! :D

[shank]

Amen!! :D

speaking of, we will not have any marcus thomasesque problems with carlton powell... he missed the first picks today while he was at bible study.

[tubby]

It all depends on if Clady becomes our franchise LT for the next 10 years.

I like the Torian pick. I remember him getting alot of preseason hype this year. Then he got hurt. This guy could be great in Denver.

[fcspikeit]

I gave the same grade as yesterday, B. I think it has the potential to be a little better, but that depends on whether Torain pans out. The only pick I questions was Torain.


Our biggest need was O line, we took an OT in the first.
Our second biggest need was WR, we took one in the second (who can also help in the return game)
Again, our biggest need was O line, took a C/G in the fourth
Getting a fast CB always makes sense, especially if Foxy plays some S. Also, this is a position where depth is critical.
Having struggled in short yardage, maybe Torain helps us in that regard. He is supposed to be a one cut and go, Broncos style back. Time will tell.
Rounding out the draft we picked a run-stopping DT, tough LB, fast safety and an all around solid FB.


The only questionable pick was Torain. It wasn't a flashy draft, but it was one that filled many needs and while you typically can't judge a draft for a couple years, at first blush considering the number holes we needed to fill, we couldn't ask for much more. We didn't have the luxury of moving around to get a 'flashy' pick or two.

At 240 Hillis will also really help out our Short yardage game. I believe he is as Fast as Torain... I give the draft an A-

[slim]

I like the draft. No complaints from me. Hillis was a nice pick up (and a perfect fit for this offense).

[Dreadnought]

I think the Broncos did a very solid, sensible, workmanlike job here. The only one I question is Torain, but in the 5th it was worth the risk. I really Love the Royal and Hillis picks, but top to bottom we did the smart things IMO. Nobody tried to outsmart themselves, and we didn't do anything goofy.

Time will tell, and the kids themselves will make or break the draft of course. I am also beyond happy that we didn't draft "knuckleheads". Enough of that, please.

[BeefStew25]

It all depends on if Clady becomes our franchise LT for the next 10 years.

I like the Torian pick. I remember him getting alot of preseason hype this year. Then he got hurt. This guy could be great in Denver.

Hopefully Torian kicks ass. Fried and grilled crow will be waiting for the glass half empty crowd.

[slim]

Hopefully Torian kicks ass. Fried and grilled crow will be waiting for the glass half empty crowd.

He's the type of runner that will do well in Denver.

[Nick]

I was thinking about this Kick return specialist thing... Looking back at some previous drafts.

We had a pretty good draft the last couple of years... but we have wasted some picks in mid round on some return / guy... like Hixon or Watts dating back for a while know.

ABOUT flippen time we just go out and get the real deal!

YEAH BABY~! (Very excited about the Royal pick)

We have turned our draft around the last couple years.

06, 07, and 08 looking pretty good.

Looks like the later rounds keep getting a little better also!

Before 2005 it really hurt us and shows you how a draft can hurt you. We are doing pretty darn good re-building our team.

DT prospects next year a far better then this years draft - Big time. Overtime I wanted a Certain Tackle they fell very very far. This has to be a reason.


ALSO

Every player we drafted over the week end are all good people. No character issues.

[lex]

Hopefully Torian kicks ass. Fried and grilled crow will be waiting for the glass half empty crowd.

It wont prove anyting...it will only reaffirm that any scrub can come in here and do well...it doesnt mean he's good. Weve had guys who werent very good have success here before. As long as this guys here, the running game will be well below what it could be.

[BeefStew25]

It wont prove anyting...it will only reaffirm that any scrub can come in here and do well...it doesnt mean he's good. Weve had guys who werent very good have success here before. As long as this guys here, the running game will be well below what it could be.

Lets not even watch this year. We are doomed.

[weazel]

seems as though the 2nd, 4th and first 5th were kind of reaches, but the next picks look to be value picks... but who knows...

Hard to grade a draft when the players haven't even shook the managers hand yet!

[BeefStew25]

The lineman pick ups are nice IMO. Protect Jay and get the run blocking established.

[lex]

Lets not even watch this year. We are doomed.


Yeah, its probably not a good idea to propose that idea. Im pretty fed up with Shanahan and personnel. Im not looking forward to watching Travis Henry and Ryan Torain being fed the rock. Im pretty disgusted actually with the state of things in Dove Valley.

[Bronco9798]

I have compiled most of Lex's posts over the last two days. I hope he is around this season.

[weazel]

Yeah, its probably not a good idea to propose that idea. Im pretty fed up with Shanahan and personnel. Im not looking forward to watching Travis Henry and Ryan Torain being fed the rock. Im pretty disgusted actually with the state of things in Dove Valley.

Patriots are waiting for you with open arms...

oh wait, Giants won the superbowl last season, thats the bandwagon to jump on... isn't it?


go buy that Eli jersey!

[Nick]

It wont prove anyting...it will only reaffirm that any scrub can come in here and do well...it doesnt mean he's good. Weve had guys who werent very good have success here before. As long as this guys here, the running game will be well below what it could be.

I disagree. You can have a great prospect but could not be "Tough" specially with all of the big money already in his account.

You need a relentless down hill runner with no fear. A motor that won't quit.

This guy looks like he might fit that bill.

[lex]

I have compiled most of Lex's posts over the last two days. I hope he is around this season.

Why is that? I hate our RB situation. I hope we win but it sucks looking at Henry in a Broncos uniform and now its the same with Torain. I gave you an honest grade on the draft.

[xzn]

lex = negative Nancy

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I gave it a C+.

I didn't hate it, but I also didn't love it. We got good depth at OT and C, but I think as solid as Williams and Torain may be, we reached and may have been better off going RB THEN CB. We passed on Choice and left the lieks of Scandrick and the other USF CB on the board.

This draft will do very little to help us in 2008, but that's OK. We shouldn't be looking for quick fixes. This is a good draft for depth and eventual replacements for our aging players as well as the average players rocking short term deals.

[lex]

I disagree. You can have a great prospect but could not be "Tough" specially with all of the big money already in his account.

You need a relentless down hill runner with no fear. A motor that won't quit.

This guy looks like he might fit that bill.

Im not asking or hoping that you agree. The guy is a plodder...a dime a dozen.

[lex]

Patriots are waiting for you with open arms...

oh wait, Giants won the superbowl last season, thats the bandwagon to jump on... isn't it?


go buy that Eli jersey!

I didnt realize being a Broncos fan meant we all had to get in line. Youre not better just because youre a blind optimist. And, btw, Ive been behind the Broncos for longer than most. Get that weak nonsense out of here.

[tubby]

I didnt realize being a Broncos fan meant we all had to get in line. Youre not better just because youre a blind optimist. And, btw, Ive been behind the Broncos for longer than most. Get that weak nonsense out of here.

How old are you?

[lex]

How old are you?

Old enough.

[weazel]

I didnt realize being a Broncos fan meant we all had to get in line. Youre not better just because youre a blind optimist. And, btw, Ive been behind the Broncos for longer than most. Get that weak nonsense out of here.


I'm a blind optimist? LMAO!!! I usually get flamed for being negative, but youre taking it to a whole new level man

[tubby]

Old enough.

Tell us lex. How old?

I am convinced you are a Raider fan. Maybe if you tell us how old you are it will change my mind.

[broncohead]

I think that RB was a more pressing need and would have liked Matt Forte in the 2nd but getting a guy like Royal can only help the team. If Torain can stay healthy he may surprise some people.

[Dreadnought]

I'm a blind optimist? LMAO!!! I usually get flamed for being negative, but youre taking it to a whole new level man

Weazel, this is a first, when someone is so pointlessly negative even you have to call them on it. I never thought I'd see the day.

[weazel]

I just dont understand how anyone can complain about the players when they havent even put the jersey on, let alone took the field.

[frauschieze]

What strikes me about this year is the potential for solid depth, something that we have lacked for a while. Hopefully that will translate into better ST play as an added bonus.

:salute:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I just dont understand how anyone can complain about the players when they havent even put the jersey on, let alone took the field.

Exactly - I feel you can only fairly judge a draft, after the players have actually played at least one season :confused:

[gobroncsnv]

I think that RB was a more pressing need and would have liked Matt Forte in the 2nd but getting a guy like Royal can only help the team. If Torain can stay healthy he may surprise some people.

I'm still happy that we went after the thing most essential... better line play so that we can keep Cutler alive to see his 4th year. Great rb's come along every year, but we had a much more immediate need of better blocking for the run, and better pass protection. Clady gives us good footwork, size, and strength. Lepsis used to have that, but not last year. It was high time we rebuilt the wall.

[Hobe]

OK, here is my draft Score: B-

Pluses:
We filled the biggest need at LT and possibly some depth at G. Clady probably start this year and be a long term solution at LT.
WR in the second could be a real complement to Marshal.
I really like Tillis; A real fullback! Only one of three fullbacks taken in the draft.
Running back was late rounder, but a between the tackles kind of guy.
Minuses:
Only got one DL in late rounds. If he works out we probably would see production for a year or two.
I thought we needed a Safety more then a Corner, so I would rather have seen the picks reversed or pick up a DT instead of a Corner.
Almost forgot, no kicker.

[Lonestar]

At 240 Hillis will also really help out our Short yardage game. I believe he is as Fast as Torain... I give the draft an A-

was listening to ESPN's take on the draft, they had said he was not a great blocker, but was damned good Running back and had GREAT hands for receiving..

The only reason he converted to FB was mcfadden came along..

[WARHORSE]

It wont prove anyting...it will only reaffirm that any scrub can come in here and do well...it doesnt mean he's good. Weve had guys who werent very good have success here before. As long as this guys here, the running game will be well below what it could be.


You couldve have said that about TD when he came here. He was a FULLBACK. For you to say as long as hes here the run game is below what it could be is just jibberish. You dont know what hes going to do until we give him a chance. So lets give him a chance before we start making declarations of misery.:salute:


BTW, Shanahans mention of Hillis breaking all the highschool records at tailback, only to come in and play behind McFadden and F. Jones means hes gonna get a look here at TB if you ask me.

Thats another big dang tailback.
Once again, Terrell Davis was a fullback in college at Georgia.

[lex]

You couldve have said that about TD when he came here. He was a FULLBACK. For you to say as long as hes here the run game is below what it could be is just jibberish. You dont know what hes going to do until we give him a chance. So lets give him a chance before we start making declarations of misery.:salute:

He's a scrub. I cant wait until we trade him for two mediocre defensive tackles and get the next bargain basement running back.

[WARHORSE]

He's a scrub. .



So was TD.

Now go to your corner until you can be a little more social.

[WARHORSE]

He's a scrub. I cant wait until we trade him for two mediocre defensive tackles and get the next bargain basement running back.


I heard Cincinatti needs some fan support this year.

I think you could do real well, and fit in all at the same time.;)

[lex]

So was TD.

Now go to your corner until you can be a little more social.

I like it when people hold their breath waiting for the next scrub to turn into Terrell. How long is it going to take for people to realize we were lucky with Terrell.

[lex]

I heard Cincinatti needs some fan support this year.

I think you could do real well, and fit in all at the same time.;)


No, Im a Broncos fan...I just dont acquiesce to all forms of nonsense like some.

[BroncoWave]

was listening to ESPN's take on the draft, they had said he was not a great blocker, but was damned good Running back and had GREAT hands for receiving..

The only reason he converted to FB was mcfadden came along..

Every Arkansas fan I know said he was a fantastic blocker. And they probably watch more Arkansas games than some guy at ESPN.

[lex]

Every Arkansas fan I know said he was a fantastic blocker. And they probably watch more Arkansas games than some guy at ESPN.

He's not the best of all the fullbacks in terms of blocking but he can block. With McFadden and Jones, he wouldnt have played if he didnt block.

[TXBRONC]

I gave the same grade as yesterday, B. I think it has the potential to be a little better, but that depends on whether Torain pans out. The only pick I questions was Torain.


Our biggest need was O line, we took an OT in the first.
Our second biggest need was WR, we took one in the second (who can also help in the return game)
Again, our biggest need was O line, took a C/G in the fourth
Getting a fast CB always makes sense, especially if Foxy plays some S. Also, this is a position where depth is critical.
Having struggled in short yardage, maybe Torain helps us in that regard. He is supposed to be a one cut and go, Broncos style back. Time will tell.
Rounding out the draft we picked a run-stopping DT, tough LB, fast safety and an all around solid FB.


The only questionable pick was Torain. It wasn't a flashy draft, but it was one that filled many needs and while you typically can't judge a draft for a couple years, at first blush considering the number holes we needed to fill, we couldn't ask for much more. We didn't have the luxury of moving around to get a 'flashy' pick or two.

On first impressions I give this draft the same grade as you a B.

[omac]

R1: Clady OT - Excellent!

I wanted an OT in the 1st and was leaning towards Williams, but I'm quite fine with Clady. He's already pretty good, and still has some upside, plus he's experienced in zone blocking, so he might be able to start right away. Cutler's sack totals just went down. :D

R2: Royal KR/WR - okay to approaching good ....

At first, I was pretty disappointed with this pick, then after reading the forums and remembering last season, I guess I could justify getting a return man to help kick start our offense in a decent possition, as opposed to starting in the 10s or 5s. :D

I would've rather (if we could've) traded back to the 1st to get Balmer(DT), or even Mendenhall(RB). Since we stayed put, I'd have rather picked up Laws(DT), or even Campbell(DE) would've been a good value since he was a projected 1st round talent, even though we have a bunch of DEs already. Johnson(S) could've added some depth, and would've definitely helped out immediately in ST.

I didn't want to get a WR, but what we really got was a return man, and as return men go, it was either Royal or Jackson. Watching their highlights and reading their draft profiles, I think Royal is the safer bet. He's not as fast as Jackson, but he's much stronger and a more physical player. He still has upside as a receiver, as his college qb situation was definitely not good. He's more likely to get possitive yards going forward while changing gears, as opposed to Jackson, who'll go lateral a lot, looking for the home run. He has good vision, and he knows how to use the blocks set up for him. He could be our answer at the return game.

R4: Lichtensteiger (C) - uhhmm, okay I guess ....

It is round 4, so we aren't exactly getting the pick of the litter. :D I would've been more content with Dre Moore (DT), who has all the upside with his physicals, but hasn't played to his potential yet; boom or bust, yes, but imagine if it's a boom ... dominant physical DT!

Lichtensteiger can play C or OG, but he projects as a backup. I'd rather roll the dice on "huge upside" versus almost "no upside but consistent." He is a hard worker, so he could be one of those guys who proves everyone wrong. Not a bad pick, and we can always use depth after what we went through last season.

R4: Williams (CB) - ugh!

This guy's supposedly a great athlete, speed, strength, is physical, solid instincts, leaper, hard worker, etc, but he's not that tall and he's had injuries. We already have Champ and Bly, with Foxy backing them up. I think this guy was brought in to challenge Foxy in the depth charts, and as a backup insurance should they lose, deal out, or cut Foxy. Maybe they have other plans for him besides CB? Again, I would've rather we taken a gamble on a DT like Bryant, because of our rush defense woes and lack of quality depth there.

R5: Torain (RB) - not bad ....

Probably more of a backup, but because he's strong and tough to tackle, maybe he'll emerge as a goal-line type back, like Davenport. Hopefully, he'll be a plus in our red zone conversions. I still would've wanted an extra DT, but anyway ....

R5: Powell (DT) - very good!

I dont' think the DT's here are too far apart from each other. They'll have enough strengths and weaknesses over one another, so it's a crapshoot just who'll turn out better than who. I'm just glad we got a DT, but I'd be happier if we got 2, just in case one of them is a bust.

R6: Larson (LB) - ???

Not much excellent players left. Good for depth and versatility, I guess. According to the scouts, he'd probably do good in a 3-4. Good bulk, fights off blocks, good instincts, solid tackler, but ... average speed (could get burned?), limited upside. He looks to have good character, though, as he was involved in a Mormon mission.

R7: Barret (S) - Great value, could be a sleeper!

One draft had him projected as a 2nd or 3rd round talent, so this is pretty good value. Great athlete with good size that can roam the field and deliver a crushing blow! On the downside, he was an underachiever. If he fulfills his potential, he could be a star ... big if.

R7: Hillis (FB) - Great pick!

We wanted a FB and we got one of the best of the draft; some say THE BEST. Excellent size and speed for his size, excellent skill set, and hard worker.

All in all, I'd say B-; though we did excellent in the 1st and late rounds, I think our 4th through 6th could've been better. The 2nd rounder was good, but I really expected defense, specifically a DT.

[JONtheBRONCO]

From Rotoworld:

The Broncos think of fifth-round RB Ryan Torain the same way they once thought of Terrell Davis, according to NFL Network's Adam Schefter.

Davis began his career as a special teamer and grew into an All Pro. Torain, who's coming off a Lisfranc injury, declared himself 100% in post-draft interviews. If he stays healthy, Torain has serious potential in Denver's scheme.

[MOtorboat]

B...

[TXBRONC]

R1: Clady OT - Excellent!

I wanted an OT in the 1st and was leaning towards Williams, but I'm quite fine with Clady. He's already pretty good, and still has some upside, plus he's experienced in zone blocking, so he might be able to start right away. Cutler's sack totals just went down. :D

R2: Royal KR/WR - okay to approaching good ....

At first, I was pretty disappointed with this pick, then after reading the forums and remembering last season, I guess I could justify getting a return man to help kick start our offense in a decent possition, as opposed to starting in the 10s or 5s. :D

I would've rather (if we could've) traded back to the 1st to get Balmer(DT), or even Mendenhall(RB). Since we stayed put, I'd have rather picked up Laws(DT), or even Campbell(DE) would've been a good value since he was a projected 1st round talent, even though we have a bunch of DEs already. Johnson(S) could've added some depth, and would've definitely helped out immediately in ST.

I didn't want to get a WR, but what we really got was a return man, and as return men go, it was either Royal or Jackson. Watching their highlights and reading their draft profiles, I think Royal is the safer bet. He's not as fast as Jackson, but he's much stronger and a more physical player. He still has upside as a receiver, as his college qb situation was definitely not good. He's more likely to get possitive yards going forward while changing gears, as opposed to Jackson, who'll go lateral a lot, looking for the home run. He has good vision, and he knows how to use the blocks set up for him. He could be our answer at the return game.

R4: Lichtensteiger (C) - uhhmm, okay I guess ....

It is round 4, so we aren't exactly getting the pick of the litter. :D I would've been more content with Dre Moore (DT), who has all the upside with his physicals, but hasn't played to his potential yet; boom or bust, yes, but imagine if it's a boom ... dominant physical DT!

Lichtensteiger can play C or OG, but he projects as a backup. I'd rather roll the dice on "huge upside" versus almost "no upside but consistent." He is a hard worker, so he could be one of those guys who proves everyone wrong. Not a bad pick, and we can always use depth after what we went through last season.

R4: Williams (CB) - ugh!

This guy's supposedly a great athlete, speed, strength, is physical, solid instincts, leaper, hard worker, etc, but he's not that tall and he's had injuries. We already have Champ and Bly, with Foxy backing them up. I think this guy was brought in to challenge Foxy in the depth charts, and as a backup insurance should they lose, deal out, or cut Foxy. Maybe they have other plans for him besides CB? Again, I would've rather we taken a gamble on a DT like Bryant, because of our rush defense woes and lack of quality depth there.

R5: Torain (RB) - not bad ....

Probably more of a backup, but because he's strong and tough to tackle, maybe he'll emerge as a goal-line type back, like Davenport. Hopefully, he'll be a plus in our red zone conversions. I still would've wanted an extra DT, but anyway ....

R5: Powell (DT) - very good!

I dont' think the DT's here are too far apart from each other. They'll have enough strengths and weaknesses over one another, so it's a crapshoot just who'll turn out better than who. I'm just glad we got a DT, but I'd be happier if we got 2, just in case one of them is a bust.

R6: Larson (LB) - ???

Not much excellent players left. Good for depth and versatility, I guess. According to the scouts, he'd probably do good in a 3-4. Good bulk, fights off blocks, good instincts, solid tackler, but ... average speed (could get burned?), limited upside. He looks to have good character, though, as he was involved in a Mormon mission.

R7: Barret (S) - Great value, could be a sleeper!

One draft had him projected as a 2nd or 3rd round talent, so this is pretty good value. Great athlete with good size that can roam the field and deliver a crushing blow! On the downside, he was an underachiever. If he fulfills his potential, he could be a star ... big if.

R7: Hillis (FB) - Great pick!

We wanted a FB and we got one of the best of the draft; some say THE BEST. Excellent size and speed for his size, excellent skill set, and hard worker.

All in all, I'd say B-; though we did excellent in the 1st and late rounds, I think our 4th through 6th could've been better. The 2nd rounder was good, but I really expected defense, specifically a DT.

Depending on whose draft analysis you look at Clady seemed to be rate the second or third best tackle in this draft. But at any rate we got a top five offensive tackle.

[omac]

Depending on whose draft analysis you look at Clady seemed to be rate the second or third best tackle in this draft. But at any rate we got a top five offensive tackle.

Yep, we got one of the best OT prospects in this draft. I think he'll do good in Denver. :cheers:

[Lonestar]

Depending on whose draft analysis you look at Clady seemed to be rate the second or third best tackle in this draft. But at any rate we got a top five offensive tackle.


Yep, we got one of the best OT prospects in this draft. I think he'll do good in Denver. :cheers:


He certainly has the tools physically, lets hope he can grasp our playbook.

[TXBRONC]

He certainly has the tools physically, lets hope he can grasp our playbook.

There is no reason to doubt that he wont.

[mclark]

OK, here is a breakdown of my grading:





Rd Name Weighted Grade
1 Ryan Clady 7 23% 2 0.451612903
2 Eddie Royal 6 19% 3 0.580645161
4 Kory Lichtensteiger 4 13% 2 0.258064516
4 Jack Williams 4 13% 2 0.258064516
5 Ryan Torain 3 10% 0 0
5 Carlton Powell 3 10% 3 0.290322581
6 Spencer Larsen 2 6% 3 0.193548387
7 Josh Barrett 1 3% 4 0.129032258
7 Peyton Hillis 1 3% 4 0.129032258
31 2.290322581


As you can see overall its a 2.29 which equates to a C+ since my scale was A=4, B=3, C=2, and D=1. A B- would have been 2.5. So 2.25 is the dividing line for a C+.

I gave Clady a C because we could have chosen any OT not named Jake Long and we took the one who played against the worst level of competition and therefore least proven...and probably least pro ready. That doesnt mean he's a bad player but its in relation to who we could have had.

I changed my grade on Royal. I like him as a player but there were other areas I would have emphasized here and drafting him meant forgoing something more important...not only that this was a frustration foul by Shanahan because we wasted a 2nd in getting Walker and Shanahan is going ahab on us with his quest to land Devin Hester. If he likes Hester so much, whey did we kick to him.

Ryan Torain was a dreadful pick and it caused me to dock the grade on the Spencer Larsen pick. If we wanted a ILB, we could have had Goff where we took Torain, whom we likely could have signed as a UFA or drafted later. Massive reach in addition to being a bad pick of the Cecil Sapp variety.

I really like Spencer Larsen but we could have had Goff earlier so what would have been an A went to a B.

Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis had tremendous value for where they were picked.

I didn't do a systems analysis but I have to agree with most things you say here. I don't think Clady is a C. I'm hoping he is not. We'll see. But I agree with you on most other things you say. We really saved ourselves at the bottom of the draft.

I give the draft a B- because we did address most of our needs in the draft. Time will tell if we got the best players we could have gotten to fill those needs.

[mclark]

From Rotoworld:

The Broncos think of fifth-round RB Ryan Torain the same way they once thought of Terrell Davis, according to NFL Network's Adam Schefter.

Davis began his career as a special teamer and grew into an All Pro. Torain, who's coming off a Lisfranc injury, declared himself 100% in post-draft interviews. If he stays healthy, Torain has serious potential in Denver's scheme.

Talk about the kiss of death: 'the next Terrell Davis'. I can't tell you how many San Francisco Giants' prospects went to their death trying to uphold the 'next Willie Mays' moniker.

I'd love to see Torain become that kind of back for us. Maybe he will. But there aren't many Terrell Davises.

[Ziggy]

He's not the best of all the fullbacks in terms of blocking but he can block. With McFadden and Jones, he wouldnt have played if he didnt block.

This was scout.com's analysis of Hillis's week at the senior bowl:

Up-And-Coming


Peyton Hillis, FB – Arkansas

Hillis was solid all week in Mobile. He showed that he not only can block, but that he’s also a tremendous offensive weapon. He’s deceptively quick and is shifty between the tackles. He’s a big body who can juke you out of your shoes or run right over you. He had the opportunity to take a few carries on Saturday and showed that he can be an effective runner. He flashed soft hands, ran hard and broke tackles. Hillis is the best fullback in the country and will be an early second-day selection.

[G_Money]

I can understand where lex is coming from on draft doubting. I mean, if you took the last 6, 8, 10 years we've only recently started not sucking, and that might be an aberration. 2006 was great, but we still don't know jack about 07 and we flushed a lot of the ancillary picks that might have made it work out better. With just 4 guys (a pass-rush specialist who just broke his leg, a rotational DE, a starting DT with problems with the law and an OT who has yet to see time except in the surgical ward) it could be pretty dicey if those guys don't work out.

This draft is much better IMO. We picked up Crowder's DT lookalike from VT in the later rounds instead of the 2nd. Instead of drafting 3 CBs to get a nickel back like we did in the D-Will/Foxy/Paymah draft, we just found one we liked and stuck with him. I wanted a Real RB (tm) and was horribly pissed when we didn't draft Choice to play here...but Shanny apparently wanted a bigger back.

Choice is more like Westbrook.

Torain is more like Forte. He was higher-rated than Forte coming into the season, too. I like Forte better (better blocker, I like his running style more) but if you wanted a big back instead of a little back, Torain would have been rated behind Mendenhall and Stewart but in front of most of the rest.

He's sorta like drafting Michael Bush (from last season). A guy who WAS really good, but got broken and is now an unknown. The Raiders apparently don't believe in Bush, since they drafted DMC. We'll see how that works out for them.

I was horribly pissed at the pick of Torain at the time, but Train could come through huge for us. Before the season he was the best of the 2nd tier runners - that would have put him about equal with Charles.

If he's actually 100% back from his foot injury (my REAL concern with him) then I like him better for us than a RB like Charles, as well - we have Young and Hall and now Alridge too. I don't need a fast, bounce runner. I need a guy who's gonna get yardage up the middle when it matters.

Could be Torain, could really be Hillis (I'm totally enthused to see how he turns out in camp). I don't want any more mirage backs - no more guys who can run from our 20 to their 20 but can't punch the ball in when it matters, or can get 6 yards on 1st down but not 2 yards on 3rd down.

But there's nothing right now that says either Torain or Hillis are that kind of mirage. If either guy can grind us the important yards to sustain drives and kill the clock in the 2nd half, we might actually make some noise this year.

And if not...well, there is next year's draft. It's a problem that needs a fix, and sooner or later if we're gonna be real contenders it'll have to be fixed.

But for this year's draft:

We hit the O line with two top-rated prospects instead of hoping a 7th round pick would work out.

We added a CB to make it easier to trade either Foxy or Paymah - or just lose them next season.

We added a WR without the physical size you might want, but with oodles of potential, and is a great KR to boot.

We added a big RB whose major issue is health (could be a steal), and a LB who has more heart than most for more ST and backup work

We added a FB/RB who will hopefully be able to both crack some holes and provide some extra dimensions for the O

And then there's a safety with every physical attribute imaginable - and now we'll see if he has the mental and emotional ones.

And another DT for the mix - and who was one of the best run-stopping DTs in college ball to boot, just our area of weakness.

That's a B from me. No slam dunk home-run pick...but a really solid draft, especially for likely ST contributors, depth purposes, and diamonds in the rough. It looks more like the '06 draft than the '03, anyway - except without a sexy QB pick to hang a draft's future on.

If just one or two of those diamonds can be polished up right, it could be a fantastic draft. If they don't and the guys we're counting on (like the OL) don't work, it could be a bust.

But right now, looking at who we got and what upside they're likely to achieve....solid B. There are other moves I would have made, especially in the 2nd...but that doesn't mean Royal is a joke bust or Torain doesn't deserve to live.

Basen on what I know about them, they certainly have the potential to succeed, and succeed big.

Wouldn't that be nice for a change?

~G

[lex]

I can understand where lex is coming from on draft doubting. I mean, if you took the last 6, 8, 10 years we've only recently started not sucking, and that might be an aberration. 2006 was great, but we still don't know jack about 07 and we flushed a lot of the ancillary picks that might have made it work out better. With just 4 guys (a pass-rush specialist who just broke his leg, a rotational DE, a starting DT with problems with the law and an OT who has yet to see time except in the surgical ward) it could be pretty dicey if those guys don't work out.

This draft is much better IMO. We picked up Crowder's DT lookalike from VT in the later rounds instead of the 2nd. Instead of drafting 3 CBs to get a nickel back like we did in the D-Will/Foxy/Paymah draft, we just found one we liked and stuck with him. I wanted a Real RB (tm) and was horribly pissed when we didn't draft Choice to play here...but Shanny apparently wanted a bigger back.

Choice is more like Westbrook.

Torain is more like Forte. He was higher-rated than Forte coming into the season, too. I like Forte better (better blocker, I like his running style more) but if you wanted a big back instead of a little back, Torain would have been rated behind Mendenhall and Stewart but in front of most of the rest.

He's sorta like drafting Michael Bush (from last season). A guy who WAS really good, but got broken and is now an unknown. The Raiders apparently don't believe in Bush, since they drafted DMC. We'll see how that works out for them.

I was horribly pissed at the pick of Torain at the time, but Train could come through huge for us. Before the season he was the best of the 2nd tier runners - that would have put him about equal with Charles.

If he's actually 100% back from his foot injury (my REAL concern with him) then I like him better for us than a RB like Charles, as well - we have Young and Hall and now Alridge too. I don't need a fast, bounce runner. I need a guy who's gonna get yardage up the middle when it matters.

Could be Torain, could really be Hillis (I'm totally enthused to see how he turns out in camp). I don't want any more mirage backs - no more guys who can run from our 20 to their 20 but can't punch the ball in when it matters, or can get 6 yards on 1st down but not 2 yards on 3rd down.

But there's nothing right now that says either Torain or Hillis are that kind of mirage. If either guy can grind us the important yards to sustain drives and kill the clock in the 2nd half, we might actually make some noise this year.

And if not...well, there is next year's draft. It's a problem that needs a fix, and sooner or later if we're gonna be real contenders it'll have to be fixed.

But for this year's draft:

We hit the O line with two top-rated prospects instead of hoping a 7th round pick would work out.

We added a CB to make it easier to trade either Foxy or Paymah - or just lose them next season.

We added a WR without the physical size you might want, but with oodles of potential, and is a great KR to boot.

We added a big RB whose major issue is health (could be a steal), and a LB who has more heart than most for more ST and backup work

We added a FB/RB who will hopefully be able to both crack some holes and provide some extra dimensions for the O

And then there's a safety with every physical attribute imaginable - and now we'll see if he has the mental and emotional ones.

And another DT for the mix - and who was one of the best run-stopping DTs in college ball to boot, just our area of weakness.

That's a B from me. No slam dunk home-run pick...but a really solid draft, especially for likely ST contributors, depth purposes, and diamonds in the rough. It looks more like the '06 draft than the '03, anyway - except without a sexy QB pick to hang a draft's future on.

If just one or two of those diamonds can be polished up right, it could be a fantastic draft. If they don't and the guys we're counting on (like the OL) don't work, it could be a bust.

But right now, looking at who we got and what upside they're likely to achieve....solid B. There are other moves I would have made, especially in the 2nd...but that doesn't mean Royal is a joke bust or Torain doesn't deserve to live.

Basen on what I know about them, they certainly have the potential to succeed, and succeed big.

Wouldn't that be nice for a change?

~G


This is called coping. You didnt/dont like the pick so now youre rationalizing to convince yourself it wasnt a stinkeroo pick. I dont blame you for doing it but consider where Cory Boyd was drafted. Consider where BenJarvus Green Ellis was drafted. There were other big bargain basement backs that were available later.

[lex]

I didn't do a systems analysis but I have to agree with most things you say here. I don't think Clady is a C. I'm hoping he is not. We'll see. But I agree with you on most other things you say. We really saved ourselves at the bottom of the draft.

I give the draft a B- because we did address most of our needs in the draft. Time will tell if we got the best players we could have gotten to fill those needs.

Im not saying Clady is going to be bad. Its more of an evaluation on the thought process behind taking the guy who projects to be the best IN 5 YEARS (a quote from Mike Mayock). If youre drafting out of need, implicitly that need exists now and therefore, taking someone who is a little more ready, makes sense...unless they really believe Clady is that ready now which is hard to know considering his level of competition.

[Tned]

I can understand where lex is coming from on draft doubting. I mean, if you took the last 6, 8, 10 years we've only recently started not sucking, and that might be an aberration. 2006 was great, but we still don't know jack about 07 and we flushed a lot of the ancillary picks that might have made it work out better. With just 4 guys (a pass-rush specialist who just broke his leg, a rotational DE, a starting DT with problems with the law and an OT who has yet to see time except in the surgical ward) it could be pretty dicey if those guys don't work out.

This draft is much better IMO. We picked up Crowder's DT lookalike from VT in the later rounds instead of the 2nd. Instead of drafting 3 CBs to get a nickel back like we did in the D-Will/Foxy/Paymah draft, we just found one we liked and stuck with him. I wanted a Real RB (tm) and was horribly pissed when we didn't draft Choice to play here...but Shanny apparently wanted a bigger back.

Choice is more like Westbrook.

Torain is more like Forte. He was higher-rated than Forte coming into the season, too. I like Forte better (better blocker, I like his running style more) but if you wanted a big back instead of a little back, Torain would have been rated behind Mendenhall and Stewart but in front of most of the rest.

He's sorta like drafting Michael Bush (from last season). A guy who WAS really good, but got broken and is now an unknown. The Raiders apparently don't believe in Bush, since they drafted DMC. We'll see how that works out for them.

I was horribly pissed at the pick of Torain at the time, but Train could come through huge for us. Before the season he was the best of the 2nd tier runners - that would have put him about equal with Charles.

If he's actually 100% back from his foot injury (my REAL concern with him) then I like him better for us than a RB like Charles, as well - we have Young and Hall and now Alridge too. I don't need a fast, bounce runner. I need a guy who's gonna get yardage up the middle when it matters.

Could be Torain, could really be Hillis (I'm totally enthused to see how he turns out in camp). I don't want any more mirage backs - no more guys who can run from our 20 to their 20 but can't punch the ball in when it matters, or can get 6 yards on 1st down but not 2 yards on 3rd down.

But there's nothing right now that says either Torain or Hillis are that kind of mirage. If either guy can grind us the important yards to sustain drives and kill the clock in the 2nd half, we might actually make some noise this year.

And if not...well, there is next year's draft. It's a problem that needs a fix, and sooner or later if we're gonna be real contenders it'll have to be fixed.

But for this year's draft:

We hit the O line with two top-rated prospects instead of hoping a 7th round pick would work out.

We added a CB to make it easier to trade either Foxy or Paymah - or just lose them next season.

We added a WR without the physical size you might want, but with oodles of potential, and is a great KR to boot.

We added a big RB whose major issue is health (could be a steal), and a LB who has more heart than most for more ST and backup work

We added a FB/RB who will hopefully be able to both crack some holes and provide some extra dimensions for the O

And then there's a safety with every physical attribute imaginable - and now we'll see if he has the mental and emotional ones.

And another DT for the mix - and who was one of the best run-stopping DTs in college ball to boot, just our area of weakness.

That's a B from me. No slam dunk home-run pick...but a really solid draft, especially for likely ST contributors, depth purposes, and diamonds in the rough. It looks more like the '06 draft than the '03, anyway - except without a sexy QB pick to hang a draft's future on.

If just one or two of those diamonds can be polished up right, it could be a fantastic draft. If they don't and the guys we're counting on (like the OL) don't work, it could be a bust.

But right now, looking at who we got and what upside they're likely to achieve....solid B. There are other moves I would have made, especially in the 2nd...but that doesn't mean Royal is a joke bust or Torain doesn't deserve to live.

Basen on what I know about them, they certainly have the potential to succeed, and succeed big.

Wouldn't that be nice for a change?

~G

Great post. It is good to see someone breaking down the draft and focusing on what we got to make our team better, rather than simply throwing temper tantrums because an NFL franchise worth a billion dollars or so didn't draft in accordance to their message board mock draft.

I think you did a great job of breaking it down. I tend to agree that some of the picks left me scratching my head, but then after I did some research, I could see the logic.

I knew we needed a LT in the first, and Clady was the only ready to go LT, the other linemen would have to be converted to LT, which sometimes works great, sometimes not.

I posted in the 'live draft' thread that I thought we needed to go after a WR at 2, I didn't know if we would, but based on Walker being gone and Marshall unkown, we needed one. They went the route of getting a KR/PR with that pick, that also has some promise of being a slot receiver, so if the worst case situation happens, and Marshall is out for some time, or never comes back the same, we have more depth at WR.

When Torain was picked, I against scratched my head, but then the more I read, I realized that prior to this foot injury, he was an up and comer. He was easily a top 10 ranked senior running back going into the 2007 season, and many had him ranked higher than that. Then the injury.

So, the Broncos took a gamble. They don't need a back this year, but they gambled on a guy with an injury, that if he hadn't had the injury would likely have been a first day selection. The gamble is that the foot is healed, and they got a first day RB in the 5th round.

It is the same gamble they took with Marcus Thomas last year. Prior to his legal problems and getting kicked off his college team, he was considered a sure first round pick. The Broncos gambled that all of that was behind them, and that they could get first round talent in the later rounds. With Thomas, it may have backfired, as he has already gotten into legal problems again, but considering how many 5th, 6th and 7th round picks never even make it to their first NFL season (they are cut or put on practice squads), I can certainly see the logic in taking the flyer on first day talent that has fallen to the second round because of injury or other issues.

I graded this draft a B. It wasn't a flashy draft. It didn't have you jumping up and down and saying, alright, we've got the best RB in the country, or we got the best DE in the country, we are going to rule..... No, it was a draft that addressed two specific needs (O-line and return game) and then added depth. It was a solid, workmanlike draft that hopefully in time will be looked upon as a good draft, but only time will tell.

[G_Money]

This is called coping. You didnt/dont like the pick so now youre rationalizing to convince yourself it wasnt a stinkeroo pick. I dont blame you for doing it but consider where Cory Boyd was drafted. Consider where BenJarvus Green Ellis was drafted. There were other big bargain basement backs that were available later.

Nah - I went back and looked closer at a guy I was looking at HARD to start the season and passed on due to injury. Mid-foot dislocation and surgery give me an automatic turn-off button in my RBs. I still wouldn't have drafted him.

But when somebody else does something I don't understand, I can either a) call them an idiot because I'm obviously right or b) try to figure out why they made a different decision than I did.

A friend of mine, Jeff Clarke (detectovision.com) suggests that in a field there might be a thousand lightbulbs worth of knowledge that could be turned on.

Nobody has all 1000 on themselves. I might have 250 and somebody else might have 250, and they might not be the same lightbulbs.

If I want to add more bulbs to my collection, I need to figure out whether a decision I disagree with was made because the other dude doesn't have the lightbulb on that I do...or if *I* don't have the lightbulb he does.

This draft was very consistent in its application of certain theories:

1) We do NOT have the roster depth we claimed just 12 months ago, and we need guys who can at the very least be backups or rotational players. In year 1 of their careers, Larsen is a backup MLB, Powell is a rotational DL, Lick is a backup OG/C, Royal is a backup slot WR...they could be MORE, but at the very least they should be depth. They are injury insurance.

2) We need special teams help. We picked up a K and P after the draft, as well as another KR/PR with blazing speed. We drafted a potential impact KR/PR as well, and several guys with the size and speed to contribute on Special Teams. We dumped several ST guys from last year to make room.

3) In a draft deep with potential but short on stand-outs, we took the guys with potential over the guys with polish. Torain is athletic but not polished, which makes his ceiling higher than a more polished prospect of similar rank (like Hart). Ditto Barrett. Ditto UDFA Woodyard. And Royal. And Clady.

4) Character finally matters. See...oh...everyone we drafted, or picked up as undrafteds.

There are others.

Now why did we make these choices? We could have had Jackson over Royal, could have added Charles instead of Torain...why did we pick the guys we did? And will that haunt us, or help us?

If you consider Charles and Boyd too skittish, and Green-Ellis too inconsistent, and Hart to have topped out, then the last runner you can realistically take with a draft pick is Torain. After that you're just dealing with UDFAs again, as you say. The bargain basement backs.

If you BELIEVE Torain was, say, the #6 or 7 back in this draft before being hurt but the #3 or 4 guy for this offense (after Stewart and Mendenhall) then picking him up where we did is a STEAL.

And I think sometimes people forget that the Cedric Bensons of the world don't always work out. Rashan Salaam. Ki-Jana Carter. Mendenhall could faceplant. So could Stewart.

But we're in the strange position of being able to almost guarantee success for any draftpick. Not greatness, but some form of success. If a runner brings his own greatness to our offense (see TD, Portis) then we can shoot his potential into the stratosphere.

Is Torain full of that quality of greatness? I don't think so.

But apparently Shanahan does think so. If he's wrong, we're drafting another RB for the carousel. But what I like about Torain is that he's not a carbon copy of the latest round of backs we've been getting: Young, Hall, Tater...

He's more Mike Anderson and less Mike Bell. It was just his bad luck to get injured this year instead of last year, like Forte did. A year to prove his foot is healed and to tear up the Pac-10 and Torain would have jumped up the board.

I dunno if it'll work out (and I am 99% POSITIVE that Choice WOULD have worked out, which is why I'm still down on the selection of a CB over Choice, forcing us to take Torain in the following round...) but we didn't draft Ashley Lelie...I mean Desean Jackson...instead of the RB we needed. I think all the guys we got could make the roster, and I almost NEVER think that.

Every position we drafted, we needed. Whether we drafted the RIGHT fit for our need is debatable. If half the guys don't make it out of the first roster cut then we'll know we pooch-screwed the draft again.

But right now, I don't think you can say that. Torain is not an obvious failure. Neither is Royal, or Clady, or Williams. If Williams replaces Bly in 2 years then I'm gonna look like an idiot griping about selecting him over Choice.

But just because I wouldn't have done it, doesn't make it dumb. Trading 5 or 6 picks to get Moss and Thomas? That was dumb, since we could have had Moss where we were, and then Thomas in the 3rd with the pick we gave up for Moss, plus several other potential contributors we obviously needed.

Discarding picks for no reason is blatantly stupid.

Drafting Torain instead of Charles (when Torain was higher-rated than Charles 6 months ago, and only STOPPED being higher-rated because of an injury that has now been called 100% healed) is not necessarily stupid. It's just different.

If his foot isn't healed and he never makes it on the field, that's a problem - but as a 5th round pick it's not a major problem. It's frustrating, but not crippling.

If his foot IS healed and he is who Shanny thinks he is...well, let's just say that it's the last day of April and I'm in the mood to feel optimistic for the next few months. And that makes for a very pretty picture indeed.

~G

[lex]

Nah - I went back and looked closer at a guy I was looking at HARD to start the season and passed on due to injury. Mid-foot dislocation and surgery give me an automatic turn-off button in my RBs. I still wouldn't have drafted him.

But when somebody else does something I don't understand, I can either a) call them an idiot because I'm obviously right or b) try to figure out why they made a different decision than I did.

A friend of mine, Jeff Clarke (detectovision.com) suggests that in a field there might be a thousand lightbulbs worth of knowledge that could be turned on.

Nobody has all 1000 on themselves. I might have 250 and somebody else might have 250, and they might not be the same lightbulbs.

If I want to add more bulbs to my collection, I need to figure out whether a decision I disagree with was made because the other dude doesn't have the lightbulb on that I do...or if *I* don't have the lightbulb he does.

This draft was very consistent in its application of certain theories:

1) We do NOT have the roster depth we claimed just 12 months ago, and we need guys who can at the very least be backups or rotational players. In year 1 of their careers, Larsen is a backup MLB, Powell is a rotational DL, Lick is a backup OG/C, Royal is a backup slot WR...they could be MORE, but at the very least they should be depth. They are injury insurance.

2) We need special teams help. We picked up a K and P after the draft, as well as another KR/PR with blazing speed. We drafted a potential impact KR/PR as well, and several guys with the size and speed to contribute on Special Teams. We dumped several ST guys from last year to make room.

3) In a draft deep with potential but short on stand-outs, we took the guys with potential over the guys with polish. Torain is athletic but not polished, which makes his ceiling higher than a more polished prospect of similar rank (like Hart). Ditto Barrett. Ditto UDFA Woodyard. And Royal. And Clady.

4) Character finally matters. See...oh...everyone we drafted, or picked up as undrafteds.

There are others.

Now why did we make these choices? We could have had Jackson over Royal, could have added Charles instead of Torain...why did we pick the guys we did? And will that haunt us, or help us?

If you consider Charles and Boyd too skittish, and Green-Ellis too inconsistent, and Hart to have topped out, then the last runner you can realistically take with a draft pick is Torain. After that you're just dealing with UDFAs again, as you say. The bargain basement backs.

If you BELIEVE Torain was, say, the #6 or 7 back in this draft before being hurt but the #3 or 4 guy for this offense (after Stewart and Mendenhall) then picking him up where we did is a STEAL.

And I think sometimes people forget that the Cedric Bensons of the world don't always work out. Rashan Salaam. Ki-Jana Carter. Mendenhall could faceplant. So could Stewart.

But we're in the strange position of being able to almost guarantee success for any draftpick. Not greatness, but some form of success. If a runner brings his own greatness to our offense (see TD, Portis) then we can shoot his potential into the stratosphere.

Is Torain full of that quality of greatness? I don't think so.

But apparently Shanahan does think so. If he's wrong, we're drafting another RB for the carousel. But what I like about Torain is that he's not a carbon copy of the latest round of backs we've been getting: Young, Hall, Tater...

He's more Mike Anderson and less Mike Bell. It was just his bad luck to get injured this year instead of last year, like Forte did. A year to prove his foot is healed and to tear up the Pac-10 and Torain would have jumped up the board.

I dunno if it'll work out (and I am 99% POSITIVE that Choice WOULD have worked out, which is why I'm still down on the selection of a CB over Choice, forcing us to take Torain in the following round...) but we didn't draft Ashley Lelie...I mean Desean Jackson...instead of the RB we needed. I think all the guys we got could make the roster, and I almost NEVER think that.

Every position we drafted, we needed. Whether we drafted the RIGHT fit for our need is debatable. If half the guys don't make it out of the first roster cut then we'll know we pooch-screwed the draft again.

But right now, I don't think you can say that. Torain is not an obvious failure. Neither is Royal, or Clady, or Williams. If Williams replaces Bly in 2 years then I'm gonna look like an idiot griping about selecting him over Choice.

But just because I wouldn't have done it, doesn't make it dumb. Trading 5 or 6 picks to get Moss and Thomas? That was dumb, since we could have had Moss where we were, and then Thomas in the 3rd with the pick we gave up for Moss, plus several other potential contributors we obviously needed.

Discarding picks for no reason is blatantly stupid.

Drafting Torain instead of Charles (when Torain was higher-rated than Charles 6 months ago, and only STOPPED being higher-rated because of an injury that has now been called 100% healed) is not necessarily stupid. It's just different.

If his foot isn't healed and he never makes it on the field, that's a problem - but as a 5th round pick it's not a major problem. It's frustrating, but not crippling.

If his foot IS healed and he is who Shanny thinks he is...well, let's just say that it's the last day of April and I'm in the mood to feel optimistic for the next few months. And that makes for a very pretty picture indeed.

~G

FWIW, Charles actually started to come around this year. He got a handle on the fumbles and carried the load. At the beginning of the year, I wouldnt have been advocating Charles and thats one of the flaws with relying on the preseason rankings. As it was, Charles was barely behind him before the season. When someone who runs a 10.17 establishes that he can carry the load and get stronger as games go on plus put on weight without significant speed dropoff, thats huge. As of the rankings youre referring to, that hadnt happened.

[LRtagger]

So, the Broncos took a gamble. They don't need a back this year, but they gambled on a guy with an injury, that if he hadn't had the injury would likely have been a first day selection. The gamble is that the foot is healed, and they got a first day RB in the 5th round.

It is the same gamble they took with Marcus Thomas last year.

And Maurice Clarett the year before that ;)

[Colorado4Life]

F since I was not drafted.

[mclark]

Im not saying Clady is going to be bad. Its more of an evaluation on the thought process behind taking the guy who projects to be the best IN 5 YEARS (a quote from Mike Mayock). If youre drafting out of need, implicitly that need exists now and therefore, taking someone who is a little more ready, makes sense...unless they really believe Clady is that ready now which is hard to know considering his level of competition.

I had him as the third OT we might take at #12 also. But I liked all three possibilities. Clady seemed to start high most experts' boards and stay there. Williams and Albert started low and climbed steadily as the draft drew near.

I think Clady will be in a position of having to put up immediately. Remember the stories from Broncoville on how they were confident Ryan Harris could step in for Lepsis. I guess not.

[TXBRONC]

FWIW, Charles actually started to come around this year. He got a handle on the fumbles and carried the load. At the beginning of the year, I wouldnt have been advocating Charles and thats one of the flaws with relying on the preseason rankings. As it was, Charles was barely behind him before the season. When someone who runs a 10.17 establishes that he can carry the load and get stronger as games go on plus put on weight without significant speed dropoff, thats huge. As of the rankings youre referring to, that hadnt happened.

I've watched Charles enough over the last three years to know he didn't run with much power.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Ryan Clady C-
Don't think this guy was worth a 12th overall pick. I don't think he is the answer at LT, but I think he will fit in somewhere on the o-line.

Eddie Royal B-
I like this guy. To have a great west coast offense you need guys who can do something after the catch. Royal is exactly that guy. Eddie gives the Broncos a very good return threat. Now only if we can block for him?

Kory Lichtensteiger B-
I like guy and I'm happy Denver address their need at center. He should be a good center for Cutler for years to come. I don't think he is a pro bowl type, but very solid.

Jack Williams B+
Excellent value with this pick. Guy is just want teams need for Wes Welker and slot coverage player. He is also a great addition for any team on special teams. Guy should be one of the first ones down on coverage to make a tackle.

Ryan Torain C+
Good runner between the tackles and exactly what Denver needs to compliment Selvin Young. If this guy can stay healthy we may have something here, but I doubt it. Still a good young player with potential and fits a need.

Carlton Powell C+
One of the best run stuffers in the draft. Very under-rated due to his size and lack of getting after the passer. He should compliment Marcus Thomas well. At the very least he should provide us with solid depth behind Robinson.

Spencer Larsen C-
Some say this guy would make for a good full back in the NFL. I think he is a solid linebacker but not starting material. He is versatile and gives Denver depth at linebacker and should contribute on special teams.

Josh Barrett C-
Guy has all the talent in the world, but just doesn't have the mean streak you would like in a safety. Good value pick based on his measurable and potential, but he is raw and has some work to do to become a contributor.

Peyton Hillis A
Amazing value and amazing pick. This guy is perfect full back for a west coast offense. He can block and catch. This guy should have no problem making an impact in our passing game, running game, and special teams. This is the best pick we had in the entire draft if you take into account value, need, and potential. I think Hillis will be a Pro Bowler.

[atwater27]

Solid C, because I don't believe in plusses or minusses.

We should have traded down, we did not adress our achilles heel in the early rounds....
Our horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible horrible horrible horrible run defense.

The 1st round I give a B because I thought we should trade down and Clady was a solid pick at 12.

The grades aren't capping on the young players drafted, but more on the talent left on the board, the likelihood of players we drafted being available later, and complete disregard of team needs.

[Nature Boy]

Solid C, because I don't believe in plusses or minusses.

We should have traded down, we did not adress our achilles heel in the early rounds....
Our horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible horrible horrible horrible run defense.

The 1st round I give a B because I thought we should trade down and Clady was a solid pick at 12.

The grades aren't capping on the young players drafted, but more on the talent left on the board, the likelihood of players we drafted being available later, and complete disregard of team needs.

There was no DT worthy of the #12, but we did address the Run D with Robertson. We were fortunate we got Clady when we did as of the next 9-10 picks selected, 5 of them were OTs so trading down would have been a grave mistake.

[broncohead]

G Money I don't think that it's fair to say that Thomas has problems with the law. He didn't test positive for anything and wasn't charged with anything. Other then that nice posts.

[O-ManePunisher]

I'll rate our draft in about 3 years :)

[atwater27]

There was no DT worthy of the #12, but we did address the Run D with Robertson. We were fortunate we got Clady when we did as of the next 9-10 picks selected, 5 of them were OTs so trading down would have been a grave mistake.

Just because we signed some free agents before the draft doesn't mean they are worth a crap. If Robertson were worth a crap, he would have either been kept by the Jets or traded for much higher tender.

Trading down would have netted us a 1st plus a second or 3rd rounder, which we desperately needed.
Just my opinion.

[Arkansas Bronco]

Solid B. Looks like we drafted for needs and we filled them.

[Ziggy]

Solid C, because I don't believe in plusses or minusses.

We should have traded down, we did not adress our achilles heel in the early rounds....



Yet your sig says:

My official 1st round advice...
Trade up for Ellis, pick Clady at 12 or move down and pick Balmer, Otah or Williams. Everything else would be silly.

So the Broncos did exactly what you advised in the 1st round, and you bash them for not trading down. Do you often find your glass half-empty?

[MOtorboat]

OK, I really did want everyone to see this...I kind of like it, it's a background for your comp...widescreen...I don't think many saw it in the graphics forum...the Williams and Lichtensteiger picks suck, so if you've got better, get them to me...

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/clapton_2/DraftPickBackground.jpg

[atwater27]

Yet your sig says:

My official 1st round advice...
Trade up for Ellis, pick Clady at 12 or move down and pick Balmer, Otah or Williams. Everything else would be silly.

So the Broncos did exactly what you advised in the 1st round, and you bash them for not trading down. Do you often find your glass half-empty?

I graded the draft a C and the 1st round a B, because we drafted Clady. I have alot more beef with the 2nd round on down. And I am not bashing. Or it would have been an F.

[Nature Boy]

Just because we signed some free agents before the draft doesn't mean they are worth a crap. If Robertson were worth a crap, he would have either been kept by the Jets or traded for much higher tender.

Trading down would have netted us a 1st plus a second or 3rd rounder, which we desperately needed.
Just my opinion.

Robertson hasn't missed very many games since he entered the league. I think he'll be a solid anchor in our D-line. We got him for a bargain, perhaps nothing if we rotate him enough.

Trading down would have been a huge mistake as we wouldn't have Clady. Having Clady at LT just addressed the glaring need on our the offense. Clady just took the the offense up a few notches.

[Drill-N-Fill]

Goodman was going off about how bright Larsen's future is. I think they think this kid could be a starter in a year.

Pretty good piece on Denverbroncos.com talking about the draft and Goodman's thoughts.

[atwater27]

Clady just took the the offense up a few notches.

Last season, it was our defense that went down more than a few notches.

[Nature Boy]

Last season, it was our defense that went down more than a few notches.

Yup, that's why I said Robertson more or less addressed the Defense along with Boss Bailey and a couple not as high profile guys. Drafting Clady alone, buffed up the O-line dramatically, hence why it would have been a huge mistake had we traded down and lost the chance to get Clady. There was a massive OT rush immediately after we took the best OT outside of Jake Long.

[Tned]

Last season, it was our defense that went down more than a few notches.

Offense, too. I think the figure was something like 7 games with 15 or fewer points. I think a couple with only 3 points. The offense was fairly offensive, so hopefully a healthy Cutler (and hopefully healthy Marshall), along with some line changes (players back from IR, Clady and more experience at RT), and the offense can pick things up a bit.

[Nature Boy]

Best thing Denver could have done in the draft. They invested in their investment, Cutler, by drafting a true LT to protect his blind side. Just makes sense. Anyone else that thinks otherwise please refer to my signature.

[topscribe]

Yup, that's why I said Robertson more or less addressed the Defense along with Boss Bailey and a couple not as high profile guys. Drafting Clady alone, buffed up the O-line dramatically, hence why it would have been a huge mistake had we traded down and lost the chance to get Clady. There was a massive OT rush immediately after we took the best OT outside of Jake Long.

That's right. The additions of Robertson, Niko, Boss, McCree, and Manuel;
the shifting of D.J. back to his natural position; the return to health of Ekuban
and Moss; and the change in coaching have lifted the defense back up a few
notches.

The defense had already been addressed. Now, the offense had to be
addressed: specifically, the offensive line. It was.

Of course, it will take a couple years to fully appreciate how well the draft
went, but so far I'm just tickled with it.

-----

[Bad Intentions]

OK, here is a breakdown of my grading:





Rd Name Weighted Grade
1 Ryan Clady 7 23% 2 0.451612903
2 Eddie Royal 6 19% 3 0.580645161
4 Kory Lichtensteiger 4 13% 2 0.258064516
4 Jack Williams 4 13% 2 0.258064516
5 Ryan Torain 3 10% 0 0
5 Carlton Powell 3 10% 3 0.290322581
6 Spencer Larsen 2 6% 3 0.193548387
7 Josh Barrett 1 3% 4 0.129032258
7 Peyton Hillis 1 3% 4 0.129032258
31 2.290322581


As you can see overall its a 2.29 which equates to a C+ since my scale was A=4, B=3, C=2, and D=1. A B- would have been 2.5. So 2.25 is the dividing line for a C+.

I gave Clady a C because we could have chosen any OT not named Jake Long and we took the one who played against the worst level of competition and therefore least proven...and probably least pro ready. That doesnt mean he's a bad player but its in relation to who we could have had.

I changed my grade on Royal. I like him as a player but there were other areas I would have emphasized here and drafting him meant forgoing something more important...not only that this was a frustration foul by Shanahan because we wasted a 2nd in getting Walker and Shanahan is going ahab on us with his quest to land Devin Hester. If he likes Hester so much, whey did we kick to him.

Ryan Torain was a dreadful pick and it caused me to dock the grade on the Spencer Larsen pick. If we wanted a ILB, we could have had Goff where we took Torain, whom we likely could have signed as a UFA or drafted later. Massive reach in addition to being a bad pick of the Cecil Sapp variety.

I really like Spencer Larsen but we could have had Goff earlier so what would have been an A went to a B.

Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis had tremendous value for where they were picked.


OMG, I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes of my life actually reading that. To each their own though. Have a nut.

[atwater27]

Best thing Denver could have done in the draft. They invested in their investment, Cutler, by drafting a true LT to protect his blind side. Just makes sense. Anyone else that thinks otherwise please refer to my signature.

what are you, 12?

[Nature Boy]

If you think Robertson and Bailey made our defense better, you're smoking some serious sherm.

Above is a message from Atwater27.

What are you trying to say Atwater27? You don't think Robertson and Bailey is an upgrade to our defense?

I think Boss Bailey is a huge upgrade from Nate Webster at SLB, especially with the shuffle of DJ back to Will. Hopefully Niko is the MLB Mile Shanahan is looking for but I wouldn't be surprise if we make a move for a real MLB if Niko doesn't prove anything. Robertson in the starting rotation is definitely a boost to the D-line. I don't understand how you don't see that. Most agree with me, read Topscribe's post 2 above.

[Nature Boy]

OMG, I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes of my life actually reading that. To each their own though. Have a nut.

LOL! :lol: :laugh: :lol:

[atwater27]

Above is a message from Atwater27.

What are you trying to say Atwater27? You don't think Robertson and Bailey is an upgrade to our defense?

I think Boss Bailey is a huge upgrade from Nate Webster at SLB, especially with the shuffle of DJ back to Will. Hopefully Niko is the MLB Mile Shanahan is looking for but I wouldn't be surprise if we make a move for a real MLB if Niko doesn't prove anything. Robertson in the starting rotation is definitely a boost to the D-line. I don't understand how you don't see that. Most agree with me, read Topscribe's post 1 above.

As I laugh at your intense desire to fit in and your childlike quest for the accceptance of your internet peers, I also pause for a moment and realize I should not mock one who takes so much pride and pleasure in his life over the aggreeance of others on his internet sports opinions. Therefore I say I am honored to disagree with you, and have no doubt it will happen many, many times in the future. :coffee:
Good day.

[topscribe]

As I laugh at your intense desire to fit in and your childlike quest for the accceptance of your internet peers, I also pause for a moment and realize I should not mock one who takes so much pride and pleasure in his life over the aggreeance of others on his internet sports opinions. Therefore I say I am honored to disagree with you, and have no doubt it will happen many, many times in the future. :coffee:
Good day.

I think he has good taste. :D

-----

[Nature Boy]

As I laugh at your intense desire to fit in and your childlike quest for the accceptance of your internet peers, I also pause for a moment and realize I should not mock one who takes so much pride and pleasure in his life over the aggreeance of others on his internet sports opinions. Therefore I say I am honored to disagree with you, and have no doubt it will happen many, many times in the future. :coffee:
Good day.


Desire to fit in and quest for acceptance? I believe I have antagonized myself to every single person on this board that is a "regular"; intendedly so. Particularly those from that lousy former site, BroncosFreak.com. There are some on the board who are going way out of their way to disagree with me(check w/HD), not cause of my points or opinions but simply cause their buddy dislikes me, just like you and your internet buddy dislikes me.

Back to the point and question at hand. How is Boss Bailey, Dwayne Robertson among other moves this off season not an upgrade to this defense as compared to last season?

I would argue with you but you have the "Bounty Hunter" from Star Wars as your avatar.
You had pictures of the guy who played Apollo Creed and Max Weinberg(Conan's drummer) on your signature until you recently changed it and told us how fat your mom is(on mother's day of all things, LOL! :laugh: :lol: :laugh: ) as if we didn't already know that.

So based on your avatar and former Sig pictures along with your recent revelation of your mom's struggles against gravity, I decline to debate with you much less mock you. However, should you feel anguished and tempted to do so, answer the question above that is pertaining to the offseason acquisitions of B.B. and Robertson and try to keep the personal attacks off this public board. :beer:

[Nature Boy]

I think he has good taste. :D

-----

I agree with you my friend. :salute: :D: :first:

And my opinions and predictions are always right, in addition to taste. Hence, why "He Hate Me". :welcome::elefant:

[atwater27]

Looks like Mr. "no personal attacks" boy had to do a little editing, I see? LMAO.
That's ok, I heard obsession with gay former WWF icons and real sports don't mix. Apparently, that is correct.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[atwater27]

Hey, if you think signing a handful of 3rd rate castoffs and players with cartilage deficiencies will shore up an absolutely horrible rushing defense, I can't help you. I can only watch and shake my head.

[Ziggy]

Hey, if you think signing a handful of 3rd rate castoffs and players with cartilage deficiencies will shore up an absolutely horrible rushing defense, I can't help you. I can only watch and shake my head.

You love to bash players for being cast off from other teams and having some injury history. The Broncos have found some gems in those situations. Ed McCaffery and Mark Schlereth come to mind.

[atwater27]

Well boys, I guess we'll just have to watch the season unfold and see who is right.

[Inkana7]

It wont prove anyting...it will only reaffirm that any scrub can come in here and do well...it doesnt mean he's good. Weve had guys who werent very good have success here before. As long as this guys here, the running game will be well below what it could be.

Translation: No matter what happens, I'm right.

A rare future-case deflection. Impressive.

[Nature Boy]

Hey, if you think signing a handful of 3rd rate castoffs and players with cartilage deficiencies will shore up an absolutely horrible rushing defense, I can't help you. I can only watch and shake my head.

Dewayne Robertson and Boss Bailey are 3rde rate cast offs?

Atwaters27, please refer to my avatar. What does it say?
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That's right. You don't know what you're squawking about. :coffee:

[atwater27]

Are preteens allowed on this forum? Anyone?
Go back to playing with your Braatz dolls and leave the gridiron talk to the big boys. Thanks in advance.:cheer2:

[topscribe]

Consider the debate over between you two, boys.

Neither of you is offering anything substantial except for personal insults.

-----

[Nature Boy]

Back to football. There were multiple teams courting Boss Bailey before we got him and only cause his brother plays here. There were also multiple teams courting Dewayne Robertson and we were lucky we landed him as well.

There was a Boss Bailey thread and a Dewayne Robertson thread that ran a mile long with just about every single member on this board with their fingers crossed in hopes of landing the 2 guys. I think that qualifies them as 1st rate talent in the NFL.

Now with Niko Kooties, I wouldn't go as far as calling him 3rd rate but 2nd rate, I can't argue with you about.

[Tned]

Back to football. There were multiple teams courting Boss Bailey before we got him and only cause his brother plays here. There were also multiple teams courting Dewayne Robertson and we were lucky we landed him as well.

There was a Boss Bailey thread and a Dewayne Robertson thread that ran a mile long with just about every single member on this board with their fingers crossed in hopes of landing the 2 guys. I think that qualifies them as 1st rate talent in the NFL.

Now with Niko Kooties, I wouldn't go as far as calling him 3rd rate but 2nd rate, I can't argue with you about.

In the end, based on the failed physicals and how little the Broncos had to give up for Robertson, clearly while he was 'originally' courted by many teams, most of them seemed to give up on him because of his knee. While I am hoping for the best, and focusing on the fact he hasn't lost any time with the knee to date, you simply can't characterize him as a premium pickup. Just look at the terms of the trade if you need any proof of that.

[TXBRONC]

In the end, based on the failed physicals and how little the Broncos had to give up for Robertson, clearly while he was 'originally' courted by many teams, most of them seemed to give up on him because of his knee. While I am hoping for the best, and focusing on the fact he hasn't lost any time with the knee to date, you simply can't characterize him as a premium pickup. Just look at the terms of the trade if you need any proof of that.


The one thing we don't know how long has Robertson been dealing with bone on bone condition.

[atwater27]

The one thing we don't know how long has Robertson been dealing with bone on bone condition.

As much as I hear the mantra of "He barely missed any games in his career regardless of the injury", there is only so long a player can be effective with with a horrible football injury like that. Apparently, the Jets were ready to heed the "best if used by" label on Dewayne's back.

[Tned]

The one thing we don't know how long has Robertson been dealing with bone on bone condition.

Which I asssume is why many of the teams that were early suitors, bailed even though the price to get him was pretty low.

[atwater27]

As far as Boss Bailey goes, everyone knows that if he is Champ's brother, he must be an all pro. Ask any Detroit fan and they will tell you.

[Ziggy]

I think that as far as the bone on bone condition with Robertson's knee goes, Shanny took that gamble with a player one other time. It was a guy by the name of Mark Schlereth, and he had a long, successful career in the NFL, and contributing to some Super Bowl winning teams both in Washington and Denver. Does that mean that Robertson will be successful with the same condition? No. But it does make me think that it's worth giving him a shot for the low amount of risk we are taking. The Broncos are well protected if the knee goes out. It's a low risk, possibly high reward move on thier part.

[TXBRONC]

I think that as far as the bone on bone condition with Robertson's knee goes, Shanny took that gamble with a player one other time. It was a guy by the name of Mark Schlereth, and he had a long, successful career in the NFL, and contributing to some Super Bowl winning teams both in Washington and Denver. Does that mean that Robertson will be successful with the same condition? No. But it does make me think that it's worth giving him a shot for the low amount of risk we are taking. The Broncos are well protected if the knee goes out. It's a low risk, possibly high reward move on thier part.

I don't remember hearing that Schlereth had a bone on bone condition in his knees.

[Tned]

I don't remember hearing that Schlereth had a bone on bone condition in his knees.

I know he had something like 21 knee operations in his career, but I don't remember that specifically.

[TXBRONC]

I know he had something like 21 knee operations in his career, but I don't remember that specifically.


Yeah and I think that was just one knee.

[Nick]

The Broncos spent the most of their picks on the defensive line last year, and it still is a concern for us. So the Broncos made the a priority in the off-season and in free agency to focus on defense.

We had a lot of needs in our re-building process and we were able to get this done with out sacrificing future picks and taking a risk by moving down and to lose out in a lot of positions (WR and OT Mainly).

Our needs going into off season:

S -
WR
FB
RB-depth
OLB
ILB
DT
CB-depth
OT
OG-depth
K
PR

Prior to the draft:

S: Re-signed Abdullah, Marlon McCree, and Marquand Manuel signed and Lynch came back
CB: Re-Signed Foxy

WR: S. Parker, D. Jackson, and Colbert signed

DT: Dewayne Robertson traded for

DE: Engelberger re-signed

MLB: Niko Koutouvides signed

OLB: Boss Bailey signed


Draft:


Round 1, Pick 12 (12) Ryan Clady OT 6'6" 316 Boise State

Clady is a perfect pick. I liked Albert at this spot prior to draft but really thought Clady was not going to drop to us. By far the 2nd best Tackle and most athletic lineman. He fits into our zone-blocking scheme perfectly and a instant starter. That is huge to put tackle and instant starter in the same sentence as the Broncos.

The are some possibilities he might start at right tackle. This also creates major depth and we will have some battles for the other tackles spot between Pears, Kuper and Harris.

I think Kuper will end up moving inside and compete with Holland and Harris will beat out Pears.

If the Broncos did not grab a linemen at this spot... we would have got beat up in the draft. This pick almost seemed to break open a tackle and guard frenzy. Leaving a lot of teams that have major needs unable to accommodate this area. There was a lot of losers that had to trade up and missed out by trading down in the draft. It almost seemed like they dictated the OL frenzy.

Round 2, Pick 11 (42) Eddie Royal WR 5'10" 184 Virginia Tech

Royal has been compared to Carolina wide receiver Steve Smith.

He's incredibly strong for his size and pretty quick. He is a little raw but should be a solid slot receiver with potential of moving up to #2. He stole the show at the combine. Putting up a grip o reps having a great vertical and maybe showed the most fluid route running out of "every" receiver. This was my favorite and most sexy pick of the draft. He is by far the best return specialist in the draft. A lot of people we mention Desean Jackson... but from a person that goes to all the Cal home games and watches them (As well as USC / watch do not go because in Northern California). Jackson will have one or two ESPN highlights but for the rest of the games he gets shut down on man. Hawkins even made him look like he was the #2 wide receiver and Hawkins can not even catch a ball… Great pick whom weighs about 20 lbs bigger the Jackson, able to break tackles, great moves, known for YACS, and has big play ability. Reminds me of a guy in between Steve smith and B-Marsh with a tad of Hester. If any one is familiar with VT they are not known for offense and their QB’s were awful and that is a understatement. There were about 3 wide receivers taken prior to Royal.. After they took him Wide receivers were getting picked like crazy. Almost like they got in right when stocks started to go up.

Round 4, Pick 9 (108) Kory Lichtensteiger OG 6'3" 310 Bowling Green

Great technique and will be able to play Guard and Center. He was projected to go in the 5th round and felt that they could have waited for the next 4th rounder for him. There was a big possibility the Texans could have took him prior to the Broncos next pick. Would have been a great fit for them to. Broncos made a point that offensive line seems was their point of emphasis. I was skeptical in the first minute with this selection but he dominated everyone but Ellis. However he did not have much support to play a team of that caliber in the interior. More I look at this pick. I like it. Note sexy but adds much needed depth.

Round 4, Pick 20 (119) (From Redskins) Jack Williams CB 5'9" 186 Kent State

Another guy that tore it up with his workouts. Depending on whos draft board was projected between the 15th and 18th CB in the draft and a to be taken in the 4th round. I am surprised he fell that far. Specially with the run at Corner in the draft. This guy can flat out fly. He ran a 4.32 at his Pro Day and very good numbers in cone drill and vertical jump. Very underrated. Love the pick and he should be able to start in dime. You can never have enough corners and you truly need quality depth at corner in this league.


Round 5, Pick 4 (139) (From Raiders) Ryan Torain RB 6'1" 222 Arizona State

Torain is going to be a project of development. Was projected higher before the year but slid due to injury. He is a down hill runner. Runs between tackles well. Good size and quickness for his size. A lot of people will compare him to Mike Anderson.

Round 5, Pick 13 (148) Carlton Powell DT 6'3" 300 Virginia Tech

I did not have Carlton Powell should add good depth at DT. Plays bigger then his size and was a starter for about 3 years for a very strong and productive program. They must have been really high on this guy because I know back in the very beginning of April I was reading on how we were showing a lot of interest towards him.

Round 6, Pick 17 (183) (From Texans) Spencer Larsen OLB 6'2" 243 Arizona

One Tough motha. I like this guy and very surprised he fell all the way to the 6th round! Wow.

Round 7, Pick 13 (220) Josh Barrett S 6'2" 223 Arizona State

Barrett… Most people had him as the 2nd best safety in the draft. Must have fell do to playing time last season. Great numbers at combine and an absolute STEAL.


Round 7, Pick 20 (227) (From Buccaneers) Peyton Hillis FB 6'1" 240 Arkansas

Hillis is best fullback in the draft. He opened the lanes for two backs that went in the first. McFadden who was selected to the Raiders and Jones who was the third back taken to Dallas. He is an all around FB with great size, speed, catching ability, and blocking ability. For him not to be picked in the 3rd or 4th had me scratching my head. Another STEAL! I never thought he would even fall to BRONCOS FIRST 4TH ROUNDER.


Check list:

S - Check
WR - Check
FB - Check
RB - Check
OLB - Check
ILB - Check
DT - Check
CB - Check
OT - Check
OG/C - Check
K/PR - Not yet but a whole lot of prospects never were selected... Do not really pay attention to this postion. I think we signed some one that used to be on cincy and think we supposed to meet with Vanderjet or somthinafter the draft...

I give our draft and off season a A PLUS!



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I guess my analysis was not to bad. :beer: