Kory Lichtensteiger

[Ziggy]

Bash away guys, but I love this pick. Nalen is probably in his last year, Hamilton is 1 concussion away from retirement, and this guy can play both guard and center at a high level. He's 300 pounds, he moves well, and he's nasty.

Strengths: Delivers a violent punch, gets adequate hand placement and locks on once in position. Gets under defenders pads, drives legs and shows decent lower body strength as a run blocker. Has a mean streak, works from snap until whistle and can put defenders on their backs. Shows adequate footwork as a run blocker and flashes the ability to reach defenders lined over outside shoulder. Takes sound angles to blocks and can get into position at the second level. Shows decent range, is always looking to hit someone downfield and flashes the ability to pull effectively. Gets adequate not great zip on shotgun snaps and is fairly accurate when asked to shotgun snap. Reads defenses well, makes sound line calls and is a leader. Played with a torn labrun during the 2006 season and is a team player with great toughness.

Weaknesses: Doesn't have an explosive first step and is going to have problems keeping upper echelon one-gap defenders out of the backfield. Bends at the waist rather than the knees, plays too high when pass blocking and can get pushed back into the quarterback. Can slide with defenders and ride them down the line but doesn't maintain a wide base, struggles to change directions quickly and is vulnerable to double moves. Over commits at times and lacks the foot speed to recover so has some problems picking up line stunts and blitzes. Tore labrum in left shoulder in 2006 and underwent shoulder surgery during the 2007 off-season.

Overall: Lichtensteiger was redshirted in 2003, but he was in the Falcons' lineup for the season opener a year later and went on to play and start in every game over the next four seasons (2004-'07). He began his college career as a left guard, eventually moving to center as a junior (2006). That season Lichensteiger tore the labrum in his left shoulder but played through the injury, which required offseason surgery. Lichensteiger's lack of burst prevents him from being an elite center prospect but he has the tenacity, power and smart to develop into a quality starter so he projects as a fifth-round pick.

The parts I've highlighted are exactly the kinds of things I love to see about a player in scouting reports. These are the kind of characteristics we need in our line.

[r8rh8r]

Awesome, awesome pick. I love this guy. I'm guessing that Denver was enamored with this kid before the Myers trade. He's probably not a good enough pass blocker to play guard, but he's got the drive-blocking ability and motor to be a formidable Center. He's 15 pounds heavier than Nalen. I love this pick.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't like some of the highlights that I saw of him getting pushed around, but that's why he's a 4th. he can sit and learn while getting bigger and stringer. I like this a lot. The MAC has a solid reputation for producing very good pro prospects. Hoping he's another one.

[DenBronx]

no, i actually think this is a good pick and i never saw it coming. this sets us up for him to at least get one good year under nalen and learn from the best in the biz. this was actually a good pick and will only fortify that wall that cutler needs.


his name is LIGHTSABER though :laser:

[DenBronx]

he will get red shirted most of the year....so look for him to make his presence known in 2009.

[r8rh8r]

Clady
Kuper
Lichtensteiger
Holland
Harris

Loads of potential...

[JONtheBRONCO]

Protect Cutler... Number one priority.

[Dean]

Cory sounds like a decent enough pick but I sure wanted Red Bryant at this pick.

[Dreadnought]

Another solid pick. Not doing cartwheels, but I like this one pretty well.

[BroncoJoe]

I can't wait to see how his name fits on the uniform.

[DenBronx]

I can't wait to see how his name fits on the uniform.

i cant wait to hear madden butcher it on sunday night football.

[Timmy!]

Don't know a lot about the guy, but love the name. It just sounds mean. Perfect name for a gritty center.

[LRtagger]

one of the very few I like

[sneakers]

He does have an awesome last name....fun to say.

[Ziggy]

Anyone else see Nalen with an extra 30 pounds when they look at this guy and his scouting reports?

[Dean]

I think that Cory was a good pick. However, from the Senior Bowl practices and game, he has some improvements to make to play at this level.

[frauschieze]

I think that Cory was a good pick. However, from the Senior Bowl practices and game, he has some improvements to make to play at this level.

I believe he was injured during a Senior Bowl practice.

[Ziggy]

I believe he was injured during a Senior Bowl practice.

He was, but never used it as an excuse. The injury came to light after the Bowl game.

[Ziggy]

Career Notes
Lichtensteiger's blocking consistency grade of 85.45% is the highest mark of any active NCAA center (grades compiled by The NFL Draft Report)...Has averaged eight key blocks/knockdowns during his career...On 3,243 offensive snaps over the last four years, Lichtensteiger has allowed only one quarterback pressure and has been penalized just four times during his career.

[Dean]

Career Notes
Lichtensteiger's blocking consistency grade of 85.45% is the highest mark of any active NCAA center (grades compiled by The NFL Draft Report)...Has averaged eight key blocks/knockdowns during his career...On 3,243 offensive snaps over the last four years, Lichtensteiger has allowed only one quarterback pressure and has been penalized just four times during his career.

The stats are impressive. However, Bowling Green doesn't exactly play a top flight schedule from top to bottom.

Once again, I think Cory was a good pick but IMO he needs some time to improve and develop his technique versus NFL calibre opponents.

[r8rh8r]

He's got a couple years :)

[BigDogfan]

I have watched and known Kory since he was in grade school. He comes from a very good hard working blue collar Ohio farming family.

Most of us call him The Big Dog (as much for his heart as it is for his size). He's a gentle giant until he gets on the football field. He's as intelligent as he is big. He never missed a game due to injury in high school or college. In our area, you're either a Colts or Bengals or Browns or Bears fan but as of Sunday there are a lot of Bronco fans now around the western part of Ohio.

I can see Kory spending many years in Denver and can't wait to see him in the Super Bowl!!!

Go Bronco's!

[haroldthebarrel]

i never thought of drafting a guard this high, but as i read upon it may be a spectacular player. he was the third guard taken as perfect in our system.
good weight and good push might really help our rz in even the short run.

[honz]

I have watched and known Kory since he was in grade school. He comes from a very good hard working blue collar Ohio farming family.

Most of us call him The Big Dog (as much for his heart as it is for his size). He's a gentle giant until he gets on the football field. He's as intelligent as he is big. He never missed a game due to injury in high school or college. In our area, you're either a Colts or Bengals or Browns or Bears fan but as of Sunday there are a lot of Bronco fans now around the western part of Ohio.

I can see Kory spending many years in Denver and can't wait to see him in the Super Bowl!!!

Go Bronco's!
I can't wait to see him in the Super Bowl either!;)

Welcome to Bronco land!:salute:

[claymore]

BOWLING GREEN STATE OL KORY LICHTENSTEIGER CONFERENCE CALL (Rd. 4 - 108th overall)
On whether he will fit in with the Broncos' offensive scheme
"I know it is a zone-blocking scheme, and that is the kind of offense I come from. This is definitely a dream come true because the Broncos were one of the teams I was hoping for big time."

On playing guard or center
"I am going in as a center but a center that can play guard, too."

On his shoulder injury
"I am about eight-and-a-half weeks out of the scope surgery that I had, and it is feeling good. Obviously I am not ready to play just yet. It is a four-to-five month recovery time, and I am already two months in but it is feeling good."

On how he fits into the Broncos' scheme
"They know better at this point than I do. I am just a hard worker, and football is the thing that I think God has blessed me with. I have the ability


http://oak.scout.com/a.z?s=66&p=2&c=750393

[TXBRONC]

The stats are impressive. However, Bowling Green doesn't exactly play a top flight schedule from top to bottom.

Once again, I think Cory was a good pick but IMO he needs some time to improve and develop his technique versus NFL calibre opponents.


Agreed he's going to need time to develop just like Chris Kuper did.

[G_Money]

He's gonna go the Ben Hamilton route IMO - sit out his first year as a "red-shirt" then come in and do well at guard until needed at center. I think Kory will make a better center than guard, but I hope we don't need him for a little while. This year should be Nalen, the next couple should be Hamilton, and then it'll be Kory's turn. If he's in at center before that it means Bad Things have happened to Hamilton - again.

But now at least we have a guy in training who will have a chance to excel at the position instead of just survive as Myers was doing. I'm a big believer in Kory. But then I like my centers nasty, feisty, and a little dirty. ;)

~G

[Ziggy]

I agree that he needs at least 1 year to learn the offense, develop, and study Nalen to see how a center should play in the NFL. What I don't see is everyone's obsession with Hamilton playing center. Let's see if he's even on the field this year before we call him our starting center next season.

[TXBRONC]

He's gonna go the Ben Hamilton route IMO - sit out his first year as a "red-shirt" then come in and do well at guard until needed at center. I think Kory will make a better center than guard, but I hope we don't need him for a little while. This year should be Nalen, the next couple should be Hamilton, and then it'll be Kory's turn. If he's in at center before that it means Bad Things have happened to Hamilton - again.

But now at least we have a guy in training who will have a chance to excel at the position instead of just survive as Myers was doing. I'm a big believer in Kory. But then I like my centers nasty, feisty, and a little dirty. ;)

~G


Possibly or could mean that Kory is capable making the proper line calls which could allow Hamilton to stay at left guard.

[Lonestar]

I agree that he needs at least 1 year to learn the offense, develop, and study Nalen to see how a center should play in the NFL. What I don't see is everyone's obsession with Hamilton playing center. Let's see if he's even on the field this year before we call him our starting center next season.

I agree here he has hung on for many years hoping Nalen retires.. I think he is gone after the next contract expires IF Licthensteiger is any good..

[TXBRONC]

I agree that he needs at least 1 year to learn the offense, develop, and study Nalen to see how a center should play in the NFL. What I don't see is everyone's obsession with Hamilton playing center. Let's see if he's even on the field this year before we call him our starting center next season.

At this point he's going be on the field as far as we know.

It's not about obsession, it's about knowing that Hamilton is known quantity when comes to playing center. He's done it before and he able to make all the right line calls. Kory is an unknown.

[dogfish]

definitely one of our best picks IMO-- he looks like a guy who has a legitimate chance of becoming a productive, quality starter down the road. . . i've said for years now that this team needs to get tougher in the trenches if we're going to seriously contend for anything, so i love adding a little attitude. . .

[TXBRONC]

definitely one of our best picks IMO-- he looks like a guy who has a legitimate chance of becoming a productive, quality starter down the road. . . i've said for years now that this team needs to get tougher in the trenches if we're going to seriously contend for anything, so i love adding a little attitude. . .

I have read that both Kuper and Clady have a little bit of a nasty streak in them.

[dogfish]

I have read that both Kuper and Clady have a little bit of a nasty streak in them.

kupes certainly does. . . i think clady could get nastier, but realistically i'd be lying if i said i'd seen him play very much, so we'll see. . . scarface posted some good videos of some of the OTs in a thread in the draft forum that had some nice clips of clady finishing blocks pretty well, but he does have a reputation as a bit of a finesse player. . . i miss the days when we could count on alex gibbs molding raw human clay into polished maulers. . .

[TXBRONC]

kupes certainly does. . . i think clady could get nastier, but realistically i'd be lying if i said i'd seen him play very much, so we'll see. . . scarface posted some good videos of some of the OTs in a thread in the draft forum that had some nice clips of clady finishing blocks pretty well, but he does have a reputation as a bit of a finesse player. . . i miss the days when we could count on alex gibbs molding raw human clay into polished maulers. . .


Those guys had no choice but get a mean streak otherwise a 5'9" 170lbs line coach was going kick their ass.

[Ziggy]

Here's an interview with Kory prior to the draft:

Kory Lichtensteiger Interview With Footballreviewdaily.com

Article courtesy of www.footballreviewdaily.com




April 25, 2008


BOWLING GREEN, Ohio - Complete Lichtensteiger ArticleKory Lichtensteiger is your typical blue-collared center, he gets the job done each and every day on the field, and is one of the nicest guys you can meet off the field. Kory's play on the field speaks for itself. He had an amazing career at Bowling Green starting in 44 consecutive games at both the guard and center positions and if there was a Falcons rushing touchdown in 2007, Kory Lichtensteiger was sure to be leading the way. Kory also finished off the 2007 season with 76 knockdowns (we advise not getting in Kory's way). Obviously Lichtensteiger finished off his college career as one of the best centers of the 2007 college football season.

Kory took some time to give Football Review Daily the scoop on the Combine, Senior Bowl, and even those crazy game day rituals athletes have.

Q. You had a stellar career at Center, how would you feel about moving back to Guard in the NFL?
I feel like it is something I could do. I had the chance to get some guard action in at the Senior Bowl and I thought I improved as the week went on. But, I know I am going to be drafted as a center and that is where I feel I am the best.

Q. With all the poking and prodding at the Combine, what was that experience like?
There were definitely times where we were poked and prodded by the NFL doctors, but that was the easy part. My real dreadful experience was spending half the day at the hospital getting three different MRI's. For a guy who is claustrophobic, sitting through three straight hours in a cramped space is about as bad as it gets.

Q. Playing in the Senior Bowl is a great experience, what did you take away from this experience?
I think it was an extremely valuable experience because it put in a pro-style offense where I had to identify either the Mike or the Will linebacker to determine blocking assignments. This is not something I had done often at Bowling Green and I know it is a key element of being a successful NFL center. Plus, meeting all the other players from around the country was cool too.





Q. Who's style would you say you relate to in the NFL and why?
I'm not really sure, but I hope to go to a team where both the pass and the run are used efficiently. I want to be able to help a runner and a passer make it to the pro bowl.

And now for the lighter side of Kory....

Q. What was the strangest question you got asked at the combine?
"When was the last time you smoked crack?" -- To which I replied, "I have never smoked crack." The part that really got me was not that he asked if I ever smoked crack, but that he asked the last time I had done it. And when I said I had never done any kind of drugs, he looked at me with an unbelievable look. I guess to him I looked like a drug user!

Q. On game day, do you have any rituals/superstitions?
Lots of them. I'm a very superstitious guy. I always have to get taped by the same trainer. I wear the same boxers for every game (washed of course). They have made it three straight years and they're still going strong. I have to go to game day chapel or I feel like something terrible will happen. There are some others too, but I think that is enough for now.

Q. Who was your favorite NFL team and Player growing up?
I didn't really have one. I was much more of a basketball fan. But, it kind of worked out because now I don't have to switch my loyalties.

Q. If you could date any celebrity who would it be?
I think this question might get me in trouble with my wife, Mandi. However, if I was forced to pick I would probably go with Rachel McAdams.

(Football Review Daily would like to report Kory is a HAPPILY MARRIED man with a son Ayden, he was kind enough to humor us with this answer.....we got your back Kory.)

[Ziggy]

and one other tidbit:

Quotes From Lichtensteiger
On whether he will fit in with the Broncos' offensive scheme
"I know it is a zone-blocking scheme, and that is the kind of offense I come from. This is definitely a dream come true because the Broncos were one of the teams I was hoping for big time."

On playing guard or center
"I am going in as a center but a center that can play guard, too."

On his shoulder injury
"I am about eight-and-a-half weeks out of the scope surgery that I had, and it is feeling good. Obviously I am not ready to play just yet. It is a four-to-five month recovery time, and I am already two months in but it is feeling good."

On how he fits into the Broncos' scheme
"They know better at this point than I do. I am just a hard worker, and football is the thing that I think God has blessed me with. I have the ability, and I am going to work my butt off for them and that is all I can say right now."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Lonestar]

and one other tidbit:

Quotes From Lichtensteiger
On whether he will fit in with the Broncos' offensive scheme
"I know it is a zone-blocking scheme, and that is the kind of offense I come from. This is definitely a dream come true because the Broncos were one of the teams I was hoping for big time."

On playing guard or center
"I am going in as a center but a center that can play guard, too."

On his shoulder injury
"I am about eight-and-a-half weeks out of the scope surgery that I had, and it is feeling good. Obviously I am not ready to play just yet. It is a four-to-five month recovery time, and I am already two months in but it is feeling good."
On how he fits into the Broncos' scheme
"They know better at this point than I do. I am just a hard worker, and football is the thing that I think God has blessed me with. I have the ability, and I am going to work my butt off for them and that is all I can say right now."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well I guess it was to much to hope that we would have un-injured players drafted..

Guess that comes with the territory..

[topscribe]

Well I guess it was to much to hope that we would have un-injured players drafted..

Guess that comes with the territory..

I would think you would have caught onto what they were doing. Shanny
discussed very deeply in both his pre- and post-draft pressers about how
they had talked with doctors about draftees. Why did he talk at such
length about that?

Now, where is a player going to be drafted higher: when he is injured or
healthy?

Let's take Torain, for instance. He was originally projected, I believe, for the
fourth round. Where did the Broncos draft him? Torain slipped probably
because his measurables suffered. He ran a 4.64 at the Combine. Slow. He
had an injured foot. Three weeks later, he ran a 4.5. Better, but not world-
beater. Foot was still hurting. Besides, the damage was done at the
Combine. By the time the camps roll around, he will be at 100%. The Broncos
will have at least a 4th round value (some once said high as 2nd, if I
remember), which they got in the 5th round. (And some once had Torain
ranked right after McFadden/Stewart/Mendenhahl.)

Now look at the other injured players the Broncos selected. Every one had
slid in the draft.

The Broncos, in fact, have done quite well in taking such gambles. For
instance, do you think Young would have gone undrafted last year, had he
been healthy all the way through college and been able to showcase his
true talent?

We might wonder and even complain about all these injured players, but I
believe the FO knows exactly what they are doing. I might be all wet, but
this is what I suspect.

-----

[Lonestar]

I would think you would have caught onto what they were doing. Shanny
discussed very deeply in both his pre- and post-draft pressers about how
they had talked with doctors about draftees. Why did he talk at such
length about that?

Now, where is a player going to be drafted higher: when he is injured or
healthy?

Let's take Torain, for instance. He was originally projected, I believe, for the
fourth round. Where did the Broncos draft him? Torain slipped probably
because his measurables suffered. He ran a 4.64 at the Combine. Slow. He
had an injured foot. Three weeks later, he ran a 4.5. Better, but not world-
beater. Foot was still hurting. Besides, the damage was done at the
Combine. By the time the camps roll around, he will be at 100%. The Broncos
will have at least a 4th round value (some once said high as 2nd, if I
remember), which they got in the 5th round. (And some once had Torain
ranked right after McFadden/Stewart/Mendenhahl.)

Now look at the other injured players the Broncos selected. Every one had
slid in the draft.

The Broncos, in fact, have done quite well in taking such gambles. For
instance, do you think Young would have gone undrafted last year, had he
been healthy all the way through college and been able to showcase his
true talent?

We might wonder and even complain about all these injured players, but I
believe the FO knows exactly what they are doing. I might be all wet, but
this is what I suspect.

-----

With this premise one wonders if they knew that Watts had one useable hand..

Whether middlebroken was still broken. Foster had an issue being hurt in his senior year, as well if memory serves correct..

Hmmmmmm I really have to wonder which lunatic is in charge of this madness.

[topscribe]

With this premise one wonders if they knew that Watts had one useable hand..

Whether middlebroken was still broken. Foster had an issue being hurt in his senior year, as well if memory serves correct..

Hmmmmmm I really have to wonder which lunatic is in charge of this madness.

I see you're a history buff, JR. ;)

Nope, whiffs, it would seem, although Foster was serviceable for several years
and did help to bring us Bly after all that service. So they goofed in taking him
in the first, of course, but he wasn't a complete bust.

I think they took a chance with Watts. He hadn't slidden, but I don't know
how they could have missed his hand injury since it happened in college.
However, he was one of the finest route runners and one of the most
elusive receivers ever to walk onto a Broncos field. In fact, Plummer
described his route running as "sick." So I think the Broncos were hoping
Watts could adapt to that and get to where he could catch again.

Middlebroken was just . . . :eviltongue:

On to more recent news, you have have heard about the Broncos having
selected Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Kuper, Dumervil, Thomas, Crowder,
et al., right?

-----

[broncohead]

I don't mind the late round pre-injured players. They slid in the draft where we picked them up. If Torain can come back 100% by time the season starts I think that he'll be right behind Henry. He'll probably get around 10 carries per game.

[Lonestar]

I see you're a history buff, JR. ;)

Nope, whiffs, it would seem, although Foster was serviceable for several years
and did help to bring us Bly after all that service. So they goofed in taking him
in the first, of course, but he wasn't a complete bust.

I think they took a chance with Watts. He hadn't slidden, but I don't know
how they could have missed his hand injury since it happened in college.
However, he was one of the finest route runners and one of the most
elusive receivers ever to walk onto a Broncos field. In fact, Plummer
described his route running as "sick." So I think the Broncos were hoping
Watts could adapt to that and get to where he could catch again.

Middlebroken was just . . . :eviltongue:

On to more recent news, you have have heard about the Broncos having
selected Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Kuper, Dumervil, Thomas, Crowder,
et al., right?

-----

Not so recent history and to my knowledge none of them broken at the time they were drafted or had surgery after college..

I know everyone wants to rave about the class of 2006-07. but so far that is about all mikey has done well in his 14 years of DAFTING..

Were those two years real or an aberration? time will tell..

[TXBRONC]

I would think you would have caught onto what they were doing. Shanny
discussed very deeply in both his pre- and post-draft pressers about how
they had talked with doctors about draftees. Why did he talk at such
length about that?

Now, where is a player going to be drafted higher: when he is injured or
healthy?

Let's take Torain, for instance. He was originally projected, I believe, for the
fourth round. Where did the Broncos draft him? Torain slipped probably
because his measurables suffered. He ran a 4.64 at the Combine. Slow. He
had an injured foot. Three weeks later, he ran a 4.5. Better, but not world-
beater. Foot was still hurting. Besides, the damage was done at the
Combine. By the time the camps roll around, he will be at 100%. The Broncos
will have at least a 4th round value (some once said high as 2nd, if I
remember), which they got in the 5th round. (And some once had Torain
ranked right after McFadden/Stewart/Mendenhahl.)

Now look at the other injured players the Broncos selected. Every one had
slid in the draft.

The Broncos, in fact, have done quite well in taking such gambles. For
instance, do you think Young would have gone undrafted last year, had he
been healthy all the way through college and been able to showcase his
true talent?

We might wonder and even complain about all these injured players, but I
believe the FO knows exactly what they are doing. I might be all wet, but
this is what I suspect.

-----

The same was true with Foster, he had broken hand but the Broncos checked out thoroughly before drafting.

In my opinion when the Bills selected McGahee several years ago they took an enormously larger risk in selecting him. He was only few months removed from a complete blow of his knee when the drafted him and didn't play at all his rookie season.

[Tned]

With this premise one wonders if they knew that Watts had one useable hand..

Whether middlebroken was still broken. Foster had an issue being hurt in his senior year, as well if memory serves correct..

Hmmmmmm I really have to wonder which lunatic is in charge of this madness.

I don't think you have to 'wonder', becaues you make it clear in every hate laden post about Mikey and the various nicknames he has drafted.

Yes, drafting a player coming off injury sometimes doesn't work out, and sometimes does (TD for instance).

I would have thought that after all the years of following the Broncos you would understand and appreciate what Shanahan accomplishes. He is possibly the ONLY coach in the league that can rebuild/retool a roster without going through a traditional rebuilding period (traditional rebuilding periods where teams have 2-5 years of low single digit wins and get many high draft choices). The way he has done that is by taking chances on FAs and draft picks, many of whom don't work out, but enough of whom do work out that he manages to have almost no losing seasons.

Now, some people feel it would be better to take a more traditional route. be good for a while, and then hit the rock bottom (Dallas, SF, Oak, TB, Cincy, etc., etc., etc.). Then, after hitting rock bottom and staying there for several years of low, single digit wins and getting 2-5 top five draft picks, hopefully slowly rise from the ashes for a few years of dominance, only to repeat the cycle.

Shanahan on the other hand manages to rebuild on the fly, changing his roster over multiple times without ever having those 2 or 3 win seasons. Which way is better? I guess that is up for debate. Personally, I would rather have 20 .500 seasons and no SB, then have 2 SBs, 8 seasons above .500 and 10 seasons in the 2-6 win range. I enjoy football season too much to endure years of horrid play in the 'hope' that it will be an investment in the future to eventually be a great team for a few short years, before free agency tears it apart, only to start the cycle all over again.

Then again, I know I have different views than many, so I am sure many of you wish the Broncos followed the more traditional cyclical trends of an NFL team.

[Lonestar]

The same was true with Foster, he had broken hand but the Broncos checked out thoroughly before drafting.

In my opinion when the Bills selected McGahee several years ago they took an enormously larger risk in selecting him. He was only few months removed from a complete blow of his knee when the drafted him and didn't play at all his rookie season.

they also had Thenry there to play that year they saw the upside to drafting him for the future a gutsy move that worked out for them..

[Lonestar]

I don't think you have to 'wonder', becaues you make it clear in every hate laden post about Mikey and the various nicknames he has drafted.

Yes, drafting a player coming off injury sometimes doesn't work out, and sometimes does (TD for instance).

I would have thought that after all the years of following the Broncos you would understand and appreciate what Shanahan accomplishes. He is possibly the ONLY coach in the league that can rebuild/retool a roster without going through a traditional rebuilding period (traditional rebuilding periods where teams have 2-5 years of low single digit wins and get many high draft choices). The way he has done that is by taking chances on FAs and draft picks, many of whom don't work out, but enough of whom do work out that he manages to have almost no losing seasons.

Now, some people feel it would be better to take a more traditional route. be good for a while, and then hit the rock bottom (Dallas, SF, Oak, TB, Cincy, etc., etc., etc.). Then, after hitting rock bottom and staying there for several years of low, single digit wins and getting 2-5 top five draft picks, hopefully slowly rise from the ashes for a few years of dominance, only to repeat the cycle.

Shanahan on the other hand manages to rebuild on the fly, changing his roster over multiple times without ever having those 2 or 3 win seasons. Which way is better? I guess that is up for debate. Personally, I would rather have 20 .500 seasons and no SB, then have 2 SBs, 8 seasons above .500 and 10 seasons in the 2-6 win range. I enjoy football season too much to endure years of horrid play in the 'hope' that it will be an investment in the future to eventually be a great team for a few short years, before free agency tears it apart, only to start the cycle all over again.

Then again, I know I have different views than many, so I am sure many of you wish the Broncos followed the more traditional cyclical trends of an NFL team.


sorry if you or any other see my posts as hate laden..

They are meant as criticism just as most other are..

Just because I do not jump up and sing kumbya with every post like some do does not make me less a fan..

I sat through 16 seasons of meager hope until 1977. I have earned my stripes on suffering..

MY whole premise is IF mikey would hire a competent GM and work with him in stead of having to have the entire organization under his thumb we could have been better years ago.. There is no one that can say mikey has had a good draft record save the past couple of years and some of that could still be up for debate.

We do not have to follow the Dallas mode of top to bottom to top again..

Nobody does if they have a handle on personnel correctly..

He has been a brilliant coach in the past, not so much the past few years IMO. But I think most of that is from not delegating authority and trying to micro manage everything that has to do with DEN..

Now I could be totally wrong here, but I think most folks fall more on this side than mikey can do no wrong..



Getting back to topic Licthensteiger looks to be the future at center and as far as I'm concerned. He can almost start tomorrow, along with Kuper at OLG and Harris at ORT as the changes I would make if they are healthy enough to do so.

[TXBRONC]

they also had Thenry there to play that year they saw the upside to drafting him for the future a gutsy move that worked out for them..


Duh I know they had Henry but that wasn't point. The point is that drafted McGahee in The First Round knowing that their was no chance he going get onto the field his first year and he might not have ever gotten onto the field.

Yep its worked out so well for the Bills that they've traded both Henry and McGahee way.

It's interesting how you can praise this move as gutsy yet at ever turn you're spewing criticism at Shanahan for drafting players that have been injuried. That's hypocritical.

[TXBRONC]

sorry if you or any other see my posts as hate laden..

They are meant as criticism just as most other are..

Just because I do not jump up and sing kumbya with every post like some do does not make me less a fan..

I sat through 16 seasons of meager hope until 1977. I have earned my stripes on suffering..

MY whole premise is IF mikey would hire a competent GM and work with him in stead of having to have the entire organization under his thumb we could have been better years ago.. There is no one that can say mikey has had a good draft record save the past couple of years and some of that could still be up for debate.

We do not have to follow the Dallas mode of top to bottom to top again..

Nobody does if they have a handle on personnel correctly..

He has been a brilliant coach in the past, not so much the past few years IMO. But I think most of that is from not delegating authority and trying to micro manage everything that has to do with DEN..

Now I could be totally wrong here, but I think most folks fall more on this side than mikey can do no wrong..



Getting back to topic Licthensteiger looks to be the future at center and as far as I'm concerned. He can almost start tomorrow, along with Kuper at OLG and Harris at ORT as the changes I would make if they are healthy enough to do so.

Yes you are totally wrong, most folks don't bitch at every turn about Shanahan in just about every thread they post in.

[Lonestar]

Duh I know they had Henry but that wasn't point. The point is that drafted McGahee in The First Round knowing that their was no chance he going get onto the field his first year and he might not have ever gotten onto the field.

Yep its worked out so well for the Bills that they've traded both Henry and McGahee way.

It's interesting how you can praise this move as gutsy yet at ever turn you're spewing criticism at Shanahan for drafting players that have been injuried. That's hypocritical.


there is a HUGE difference in drafting an injured MC Gahee type player that was a special player in college and unlimited potential and say willie middlebrooks or george foster..

Knowing you have a Thenry type player there ready to play the next season..

Maybe it is just me that sees the difference and that is not hypocritical.

They had the chance to pick up a truly special player who played out his rookie contract and moved on and is starting on another team, we did not IMO.. verses foster and middlebroken one a back up OT on a hack team and the other who has a whooping 74 tackle almost all of which on ST.. and not in football any longer .

Way to go Mikey be proud of those two whooping mistakes..

Sorry you can't understand this.. Most folks do..

[fcspikeit]

there is a HUGE difference in drafting an injured MC Gahee type player that was a special player in college and unlimited potential and say willie middlebrooks or george foster..

Knowing you have a Thenry type player there ready to play the next season..

Maybe it is just me that sees the difference and that is not hypocritical.

They had the chance to pick up a truly special player who played out his rookie contract and moved on and is starting on another team, we did not IMO.. verses foster and middlebroken one a back up OT on a hack team and the other who has a whooping 74 tackle almost all of which on ST.. and not in football any longer .

Way to go Mikey be proud of those two whooping mistakes..

Sorry you can't understand this.. Most folks do..

It's not just you JR. I see what your saying...

IMO there is a huge difference in reaching on a hurt player in the 1st round who was projected to go in the 2nd, then there is in drafting a guy late in the 1st who was projected to go top 5...

Sure both are a risk, but at least when your taking the top 5 guy, the reward can be great.

Just like Pitt drafting Mendenhall, they didn't need another back enough to justify taking one in the 1st round. He fell all the way to 23, how could you pass A guy like that up? Anyone can bust but IMO It was well worth the risk.


I see it like this... Would you gamble $100 in a machine if everyone who worked at the casino said the highest payout the machine gives is 100?

On the other hand, would you gamble $100 dollars in a machine where everyone who worked at the casino said it had a $1,000 pay out?

Sure both would be a risk, But would both be seen as the same gamble?

[Lonestar]

It's not just you JR. I see what your saying...

IMO there is a huge difference in reaching on a hurt player in the 1st round who was projected to go in the 2nd, then there is in drafting a guy late in the 1st who was projected to go top 5...

Sure both are a risk, but at least when your taking the top 5 guy, the reword can be great.

Just like Pitt drafting Mendenhall, they didn't need another back enough to justify taking one in the 1st round. He fell all the way to 23, how could you pass A guy like that up? Anyone can bust but IMO It was well worth the risk.


I see it like this... Would you gamble $100 in a machine if everyone who worked at the casino said the highest payout the machine gives is 100?

On the other hand, would you gamble $100 dollars in a machine where everyone who worked at the casino said it had a $1,000 pay out?

Sure both would be a risk, But would both be seen as the same gamble?

I was shocked to see Mendenhall drop that far also and even more shocked that PIT took him.. But they have AWAYS drafted well. Unlike our squad..

They are looking to the future and planning two years from now.. When parker who is 27 today could be gone.. Or injured in a heart beat next week.

[Ziggy]

I was shocked to see Mendenhall drop that far also and even more shocked that PIT took him.. But they have AWAYS drafted well. Unlike our squad..

They are looking to the future and planning two years from now.. When parker who is 27 today could be gone.. Or injured in a heart beat next week.

Pittsburgh has always relied heavily on the draft to keep thier winning ways. They have only had 2 losing seasons in the last 16 years. They have drafted well and supplemented lightly with FA. They took the BPA, regardless of position like they almost always do in the first round. Mendenhall could be one of the steals of this draft in the long term. I thought it was a great pick.

[hamrob]

The short arms worry me! He's going to have a hard time keeping NT's out of the backfield.

[dogfish]

Pittsburgh has always relied heavily on the draft to keep thier winning ways. They have only had 2 losing seasons in the last 16 years. They have drafted well and supplemented lightly with FA. They took the BPA, regardless of position like they almost always do in the first round. Mendenhall could be one of the steals of this draft in the long term. I thought it was a great pick.

not only do they draft for value, they've run the same basic schemes forever, and they're excellent at identifying good fits. . . with his size and power, mendenhall is much closer to their prototypical back than parker is. . . their running game will be exceptionally strong if the line holds up. . .

[gobroncsnv]

Once you get to the 5th round, I really don't see a problem with gambling. You don't want to throw picks away, but if Torain comes back, even next year, we really haven't lost too much. And I think THenry is going to have a decent year, so RB as a top need PALES in comparison to having a decent line. And Korey (you go ahead and spell the last name) will be able to learn alot from Nails, plus, if he's as good as some say, do we have a 3rd string center? Sounds like it. I think we put our draft picks where we needed them, especially if Robertson play well. Hopefully, getting him addressed our most glaring need. Fix the line, then worry about the skill players.

[Lonestar]

Once you get to the 5th round, I really don't see a problem with gambling. You don't want to throw picks away, but if Torain comes back, even next year, we really haven't lost too much. And I think THenry is going to have a decent year, so RB as a top need PALES in comparison to having a decent line. And Korey (you go ahead and spell the last name) will be able to learn alot from Nails, plus, if he's as good as some say, do we have a 3rd string center? Sounds like it. I think we put our draft picks where we needed them, especially if Robertson play well. Hopefully, getting him addressed our most glaring need. Fix the line, then worry about the skill players.



Overall I think this draft IF all the picks pan out they all fill the areas of need with at least backup help if not a couple of long term starters..

The only waste of a pick was #2, an area I though we had addressed via FA.. With Stokely as the starter for at least this year. With the other players taken as KR and the utter failure of ST I would have rather had one more of the Quality DT types for rotational purposes.. As we all know that Robertson probably is not a LONG term solution and frankly IMO you can never have TO many exceptional DT's. The rest of the draft could be quality IF they stick, they apperar to be upgrades over exisiting personnel.. But then we have drafted poorly except for the past couple of years, we had a long drought of quality players sticking from 2000-2005..

[TXBRONC]

Overall I think this draft IF all the picks pan out they all fill the areas of need with at least backup help if not a couple of long term starters..

The only waste of a pick was #2, an area I though we had addressed via FA.. With Stokely as the starter for at least this year. With the other players taken as KR and the utter failure of ST I would have rather had one more of the Quality DT types for rotational purposes.. As we all know that Robertson probably is not a LONG term solution and frankly IMO you can never have TO many exceptional DT's. The rest of the draft could be quality IF they stick, they apperar to be upgrades over exisiting personnel.. But then we have drafted poorly except for the past couple of years, we had a long drought of quality players sticking from 2000-2005..

Shanahan doesn't have plans to start Stokely he wants him be in the slot where he at his best.

Exceptional defensive tackles come with an big price tags and are found in the top ten.

[gobroncsnv]

Yep, only 1 or 2 top tier DT's come along every year, and it doesn't take long to see their names called. Unfortunately for Denver, that means trying to catch a big one in the FA pond. And we've had to throw too many back. Cmon, Dwayne!!!

[Nature Boy]

So when is the Broncos 1st mini camp?

[TXBRONC]

Yep, only 1 or 2 top tier DT's come along every year, and it doesn't take long to see their names called. Unfortunately for Denver, that means trying to catch a big one in the FA pond. And we've had to throw too many back. Cmon, Dwayne!!!

That and there isn't any team League that collects them just for the sake collecting them. It also not realistic to think you can have four or five top tier defensive tackles.

[dogfish]

Shanahan doesn't have plans to start Stokely he wants him be in the slot where he at his best.


true, but darrell jackson is a perfectly good #2 WR in a west coast offense, and should have some good years left in him-- i don't have anything against royal per se, and i'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, but i would have been much happier with trevor laws at that pick. . . i still think we overpaid for speed in the return game when we had bigger holes that could have been filled there. . .




That and there isn't any team League that collects them just for the sake collecting them. It also not realistic to think you can have four or five top tier defensive tackles.

actually, the giants have been collecting defensive linemen-- they drafted justin tuck when they already had strahan and umenyiora, and they still went back to the well again to get mathias kiwanuka. . . and not only did they get a lombardi out of it (even with one of those guys on the shelf), but their pass rush will be set for a decade even after strahan retires. . . given the concerns about robertson's knee, marcus thomas' off field issues, and the weakness of the rest of our DTs, IMO investing in one more with a high pick would have been a perfectly sound decision. . .

[Lonestar]

true, but darrell jackson is a perfectly good #2 WR in a west coast offense, and should have some good years left in him-- i don't have anything against royal per se, and i'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, but i would have been much happier with trevor laws at that pick. . . i still think we overpaid for speed in the return game when we had bigger holes that could have been filled there. . .





actually, the giants have been collecting defensive linemen-- they drafted justin tuck when they already had strahan and umenyiora, and they still went back to the well again to get mathias kiwanuka. . . and not only did they get a lombardi out of it (even with one of those guys on the shelf), but their pass rush will be set for a decade even after strahan retires. . . given the concerns about robertson's knee, marcus thomas' off field issues, and the weakness of the rest of our DTs, IMO investing in one more with a high pick would have been a perfectly sound decision. . .


Philly has a habit of stockpling DL types also.. while not all #1's they certainly like them on day one..

2008
2 47 Trevor Laws DT Notre Dame
2007
2 57 Victor Abiamiri DE Notre Dame
2006
1 14 Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State
2005
1 31 Mike Patterson DT USC
2003
1 15 Jerome McDougle DE Miami (Fla.)
2001
1 6 Corey Simon DT Florida State
1997
1 25 Jon Harris DE Virginia
1995
1 7 Mike Mamula DE Boston College
1994
2 37 Bruce Walker DT UCLA
1993
1 24 Leonard Renfro DT Colorado
1992
3 75 Tommy Jeter DT Texas

[WARHORSE]

actually, the giants have been collecting defensive linemen-- they drafted justin tuck when they already had strahan and umenyiora, and they still went back to the well again to get mathias kiwanuka. . . and not only did they get a lombardi out of it (even with one of those guys on the shelf), but their pass rush will be set for a decade even after strahan retires. . . given the concerns about robertson's knee, marcus thomas' off field issues, and the weakness of the rest of our DTs, IMO investing in one more with a high pick would have been a perfectly sound decision. . .

Perhaps. But this year isnt the year we're gonna have to deal with that. Since both Robertson and Thomas will both be playing this year, we dont need to fill those positions. We DO however need to have an impact special teams. Once again our STs killed us last year with the exception of Elam. But with Elam after the money, it was the right thing to do. We may pay for it this year from a kicking standpoint, but thats the knocks.

I wouldnt have fretted a Trevor Laws pick. If Denver had selected him, then I would think they were thinking more along the lines of what youre saying. But since they didnt, I think their bigger concern was not walking into next year with Hall, Sapp, Martinez or Hillis returning kicks and punts for Denver vs someone with Royals attributes.

Field position vs Dline depth?

If the DTs dont get it done this year, it will once again be addressed in next years draft.

I like Carlton as well. If he comes in and provides a run stopping force, we scored.

[TXBRONC]

Perhaps. But this year isnt the year we're gonna have to deal with that. Since both Robertson and Thomas will both be playing this year, we dont need to fill those positions. We DO however need to have an impact special teams. Once again our STs killed us last year with the exception of Elam. But with Elam after the money, it was the right thing to do. We may pay for it this year from a kicking standpoint, but thats the knocks.

I wouldnt have fretted a Trevor Laws pick. If Denver had selected him, then I would think they were thinking more along the lines of what youre saying. But since they didnt, I think their bigger concern was not walking into next year with Hall, Sapp, Martinez or Hillis returning kicks and punts for Denver vs someone with Royals attributes.

Field position vs Dline depth?

If the DTs dont get it done this year, it will once again be addressed in next years draft.

I like Carlton as well. If he comes in and provides a run stopping force, we scored.

Considering what we have done do bolster the interior of the defensive line I think that going after a guy like Eddie Royal was wise move.

[WARHORSE]

Considering what we have done do bolster the interior of the defensive line I think that going after a guy like Eddie Royal was wise move.

So do I....................well, if it works out that is.............;)

[dogfish]

Perhaps. But this year isnt the year we're gonna have to deal with that. Since both Robertson and Thomas will both be playing this year, we dont need to fill those positions. We DO however need to have an impact special teams. Once again our STs killed us last year with the exception of Elam. But with Elam after the money, it was the right thing to do. We may pay for it this year from a kicking standpoint, but thats the knocks.

I wouldnt have fretted a Trevor Laws pick. If Denver had selected him, then I would think they were thinking more along the lines of what youre saying. But since they didnt, I think their bigger concern was not walking into next year with Hall, Sapp, Martinez or Hillis returning kicks and punts for Denver vs someone with Royals attributes.

Field position vs Dline depth?

If the DTs dont get it done this year, it will once again be addressed in next years draft.

I like Carlton as well. If he comes in and provides a run stopping force, we scored.



that's the problem-- if robertson's knee really is bad, we very well could end up having to deal with it this year, and we'll end up in a position where we're looking to a late round rookie to be the upgrade we so desperately need at DT. . . and relying on an almost completely unproven middle linebacker, as well. . . given our abomination of a run efense last year, i just don't feel comfortable that we really did enough to beef it up-- i would have been a lot more confident if we'd added trevor laws or dan connor at #42 instead of a part-time offensive weapon who may take years before he can contribute beyond special teams. . .


it's not that i don't like royal, i just hate to see us use 1st day picks to address special teams (i realize that he does have potential as a WR also, of course, but we do have a pretty solid looking WR corps in place for the next year or so-- ATM he's more of a depth guy there). . . i persist in my belief that you DON'T have to spend high picks to get good special teams players. . . and royal wasn't exactly overwhelming as a kick returner, either-- alridge (a UDFA) was just as good in college, although he admittedly didn't return punts. . . last year, by far and away the best returner in the league not named devin hester was an undrafted quarterback from kent state. . .

how many picks have we spent over the past 5-6 years or so looking for an impact return specialist? and besides darrent williams (R.I.P.), none of them have done squat. . . IMO it's clearly a problem with our blocking more than our returners-- hixon looked pretty good in new york after getting canned here. . . for my money i couldn't have been more disappointed in ST's performance after we went out and made additions like paul smith and d.d. lewis (both touted as ST aces) last year. . . o'brein shit the bed big time!

with plenty of question marks in our starting lineup still, royal looks like a luxury pick to me-- the kind of pick you make when you have a stocked roster. . . oh well, it's done and nothing's going to change that, so i suppose all i can do is cross my fingers and hope for the best. . . .