NFL Network - Lombardi sit down with Coach McD

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-player-interviews/09000d5d817a0aa7/McDaniels-sitdown

[Tned]

It's a nice interview. If the players still here have bought into Coach McD's philosophy and decisions half as much as Lombardi, we're in good shape. He looks like a true believer.

I think that at least partially comes from the fact that it is clear that McDaniels is smart and knows football. It's impossible to know if some of these personnel decisions will pay off, or put the club back, but regardless, he knows football.

[Lancane]

It's a nice interview. If the players still here have bought into Coach McD's philosophy and decisions half as much as Lombardi, we're in good shape. He looks like a true believer.

I think that at least partially comes from the fact that it is clear that McDaniels is smart and knows football. It's impossible to know if some of these personnel decisions will pay off, or put the club back, but regardless, he knows football.

So does Al Davis supposedly... ;)

[Zweems56]

So does Al Davis supposedly... ;)

I know you're just playing devils advocate, but if that isn't the biggest crock of shit ever...

[claymore]

We will need to convert 3rd downs to keep the players bought in.

[roomemp]

So does Al Davis supposedly... ;)

Have you had a chance to catch the Raiders last 5 round 1 draft picks :eek:

[Thnikkaman]

So does Al Davis supposedly... ;)

And when Al Davis was in his prime, his team won Superbowls.

Idiots.

[Italianmobstr7]

Dang, the video is no longer available...

[milehigh]

Dang, the video is no longer available...

It's at denverbroncos.com under video as well.

[RedFalcon]

There you go, I uploaded it on my YouTube channel ...

The Josh McDaniels interview

Enjoy it!

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[Northman]

Great interview. Lets hope he can live up to the expectations but again he wants to do it his way.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It was a cute little interview and Mcdaniels seems to finally have everyone "buying in" and marching to his tune which is great. Just because everyone is "buying in" doesn't mean we have the TALENT on the field to be competitive with the rest of the league achieve any of the goals that he's set forth.

I can make a high school football team buy into any system I want - live it, breathe it, eat it - but if they don't have enough talent, they're NEVER going to win (or even compete for) a State Championship.

It's no longer about the players "buying what he's selling" it's about those players being able to win on Sunday without the elite talent that was here at the end of last season.

What have we done not to go 2-8 in our last 10 this season? Let's discuss:

-We traded away a probowl WR and haven't replaced him with even a PS body thereby making WR a draft need when it wasn't before
-We cut both our starting Center and LG from last year (not that I'm arguing with the move) and made no move to replace either thereby making both a draft need when they weren't before
-We traded away our only true FB without replacing him (Larsen is not a FB any more than putting a Guard in the backfield to lead block is, the FB should be an offensive weapon, too) thereby creating a need for a FB when we didn't need one before.
-We traded away a receiving TE who actually had the best receiving production of any TE on the roster (I would say that classifies him as the best receiving TE) without replacing him thereby creating a need in the draft.
- We released a solid, run stopping ILB who was extremely inexpensive when there really was no one to replace him thereby creating another draft need.
- We still don't have a Punter

I'm sure there are other moves we've made that I haven't listed, but just starting with those... how many draft picks do we have, again?

Oh yea, 7. So I've listed 7 positions of need above that even if we drafted one player for each position of need, all would have to contribute right away in some fashion just to make up for the production of the players we lost through our own decisions - not because they were FAs or anything.

So, how are we a better team again? How are we building for the future if we're so bad off that all of our rookies we haven't even drafted yet are pretty much going to be depended on as to whether we win or lose (specifically on the O-line)?

Great job McDaniels, everyone has bought in, now tell me how you're going to win games with no talent... Strange that he never seems to be asked that question and in the rare instance he does he avoids it like the plague.

If anything, this season will at least be interesting. I've been a Bronco fan since 1984 and I've NEVER seen a Broncos' squad so devoid of talent on offense. Never. Let's hope all those 30-somethings (7 of our 11 defensive starters - 8 depending on who starts at TED LB are over 30) on defense have got enough in the tank and can stay healthy enough to keep this team from being blown out every week.

[Northman]

It was a cute little interview and Mcdaniels seems to finally have everyone "buying in" and marching to his tune which is great. Just because everyone is "buying in" doesn't mean we have the TALENT on the field to be competitive with the rest of the league achieve any of the goals that he's set forth.

I can make a high school football team buy into any system I want - live it, breathe it, eat it - but if they don't have enough talent, they're NEVER going to win (or even compete for) a State Championship.

It's no longer about the players "buying what he's selling" it's about those players being able to win on Sunday without the elite talent that was here at the end of last season.

What have we done not to go 2-8 in our last 10 this season? Let's discuss:

-We traded away a probowl WR and haven't replaced him with even a PS body thereby making WR a draft need when it wasn't before
-We cut both our starting Center and LG from last year (not that I'm arguing with the move) and made no move to replace either thereby making both a draft need when they weren't before
-We traded away our only true FB without replacing him (Larsen is not a FB any more than putting a Guard in the backfield to lead block is, the FB should be an offensive weapon, too) thereby creating a need for a FB when we didn't need one before.
-We traded away a receiving TE who actually had the best receiving production of any TE on the roster (I would say that classifies him as the best receiving TE) without replacing him thereby creating a need in the draft.
- We released a solid, run stopping ILB who was extremely inexpensive when there really was no one to replace him thereby creating another draft need.
- We still don't have a Punter

I'm sure there are other moves we've made that I haven't listed, but just starting with those... how many draft picks do we have, again?

Oh yea, 7. So I've listed 7 positions of need above that even if we drafted one player for each position of need, all would have to contribute right away in some fashion just to make up for the production of the players we lost through our own decisions - not because they were FAs or anything.

So, how are we a better team again? How are we building for the future if we're so bad off that all of our rookies we haven't even drafted yet are pretty much going to be depended on as to whether we win or lose (specifically on the O-line)?

Great job McDaniels, everyone has bought in, now tell me how you're going to win games with no talent... Strange that he never seems to be asked that question and in the rare instance he does he avoids it like the plague.

If anything, this season will at least be interesting. I've been a Bronco fan since 1984 and I've NEVER seen a Broncos' squad so devoid of talent on offense. Never. Let's hope all those 30-somethings (7 of our 11 defensive starters - 8 depending on who starts at TED LB are over 30) on defense have got enough in the tank and can stay healthy enough to keep this team from being blown out every week.


So basically you agree that it takes players who buy into it and not ones who want to leave correct? And it takes more than one year to accomplish? ;)

[Ziggy]

If anything, this season will at least be interesting. I've been a Bronco fan since 1984 and I've NEVER seen a Broncos' squad so devoid of talent on offense. Never. Let's hope all those 30-somethings (7 of our 11 defensive starters - 8 depending on who starts at TED LB are over 30) on defense have got enough in the tank and can stay healthy enough to keep this team from being blown out every week.

No wonder you have no patience. Compared to the pre-Elway era, this team has all the talent in the world.

[CoachChaz]

I thought I witnessed the Saints win the SB this year. They did that with an overachieving QB (yes...he's good, but still an overachiever), a 7th round WR that puts up as many good numbers as he does dropped passes and a good run blocking guard. other than those three...where is their overwhelming abundance of talent on offense? I wont even discuss their defense

[Northman]

I thought I witnessed the Saints win the SB this year. They did that with an overachieving QB (yes...he's good, but still an overachiever), a 7th round WR that puts up as many good numbers as he does dropped passes and a good run blocking guard. other than those three...where is their overwhelming abundance of talent on offense? I wont even discuss their defense

Ive seen Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson win SB's so i know it can be done any way shape or form. But it took Bmore at least 5 years to get it and Tampa, what? At least 25? :lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

No wonder you have no patience. Compared to the pre-Elway era, this team has all the talent in the world.

This team has more talent collectively than some of the teams theG.O.A.T.#7 brought to the SuperBowl. That's how good theG.O.A.T.#7 was.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Great interview. Lets hope he can live up to the expectations but again he wants to do it his way.

Unless you have a meddling, I am the "BOSS", owner - i.e. - you will do what I tell you to do, like Davis or Jones, don't all head coaches want to do it their way?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So basically you agree that it takes players who buy into it and not ones who want to leave correct? And it takes more than one year to accomplish? ;)

It does? So what are Mike Smith's, Rex Ryan's, Tony Sparano's, Jim Harbaugh's, etc excuse? They seemed to be able to get worse teams to the playoffs their first year...

[HORSEPOWER 56]

No wonder you have no patience. Compared to the pre-Elway era, this team has all the talent in the world.

Not when compared to the rest of the current league.

[Northman]

It does? So what are Mike Smith's, Rex Ryan's, Tony Sparano's, Jim Harbaugh's, etc excuse? They seemed to be able to get worse teams to the playoffs their first year...


Easy, they ALL went and got players added to the team that THEY WANTED. Whether it was through the draft or whatever. The Jets could of easily stayed with Favre but nooooooo, they let him go. Shame on them!! :lol:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Easy, they ALL went and got players added to the team that THEY WANTED. Whether it was through the draft or whatever. The Jets could of easily stayed with Favre but nooooooo, they let him go. Shame on them!! :lol:

Umm, so did McDaniels. :confused: He was one of the most active coaches in FA that year. He traded out half the roster for HIS GUYS that turned out to be nothing more than BACKUPS in most cases. So what you're saying is that they have better personnel evaluating skills than McDaniels and can do more with less without having to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

[T.K.O.]

HAHAHAHAHAHA !
HP56.....that was maybe the worst explanation of what has transpired that i have ever seen.
we lost one very talented reciever and will address that in the draft.
other than that every transaction you wrote of has been either upgraded or making room for players that will be a better fit in the scheme or are already waiting in the wings.
you make it sound like we were already a heartbeat away from a superbowl and now we have to draft a bunch of scrubs and start over.
we are sitting as one of the "powerbrokers" in what is considered a very deep draft.and we have rid the team of a few players who did'nt want to be on the team.....how is that the end of the world ?:laugh:

[rationalfan]

still the fury over mcd's housecleaning of a mediocre team.

makes me wonder if broncos fans were ready to revolt when a young coach with little experience started releasing high priced free agent signings (mike pritchard, anthony miller) and replaced them with late round or undrafted players (mcaffery, smith, davis). remember shanny?

[Elevation inc]

It does? So what are Mike Smith's, Rex Ryan's, Tony Sparano's, Jim Harbaugh's, etc excuse? They seemed to be able to get worse teams to the playoffs their first year...



lol and how did atlanta and miami fair this year, and baltimore.......only case you have is rex ryan.....and he is god anyways:lol:

[claymore]

still the fury over mcd's housecleaning of a mediocre team.

makes me wonder if broncos fans were ready to revolt when a young coach with little experience started releasing high priced free agent signings (mike pritchard, anthony miller) and replaced them with late round or undrafted players (mcaffery, smith, davis). remember shanny?

If he would have traded Elway and Sharpe I would have been pissed off.

[milehigh]

If he would have traded Elway and Sharpe I would have been pissed off.

Please don't insult Elway and Sharpe by comparing them to Cutler and Marshall.

[Lonestar]

Great interview. Lets hope he can live up to the expectations but again he wants to do it his way.


I just have to wonder who's way he should want to do it with IF not his way?

[Ravage!!!]

HOw is he "over achieving?"

I saw two teams with two top QBs in the Super Bowl.

[claymore]

This team has more talent collectively than some of the teams theG.O.A.T.#7 brought to the SuperBowl. That's how good theG.O.A.T.#7 was.

You are high on crack.

[Elevation inc]

anyone that thinks KO is denvers Answer at qb...is off there rocker:lol:.....just saying.....im sure we can get to the playoffs with him...but the SB...well come on now....

[claymore]

Please don't insult Elway and Sharpe by comparing them to Cutler and Marshall.

Lame. Everyone Knows both Cutler and Marshall has put up better numbers through their first 4 years. Only the future knows if they will continue to outperform Elway and Sharpe statistically.

Sharpe is kind of an unfair comparison because he is a TE. But at 4 years in, he was not the star Marshall is.

[silkamilkamonico]

You are high on crack.

Sorry Clay, but theG.O.A.T,#7 was that good.

[TXBRONC]

anyone that thinks KO is denvers Answer at qb...is off there rocker:lol:.....just saying.....im sure we can get to the playoffs with him...but the SB...well come on now....

It's possible, but that also means we would have to have a great defense.

[claymore]

Sorry Clay, but theG.O.A.T,#7 was that good.

No he wasnt.

He was a marginal QB for the first 58 minutes of the game and he was a stallion the last 2.

When he didnt have a chance to think, he was unstoppable.

He was exciting. But we forget all the stupid shit he did. More turnovers than TD's.

He was a bone head more than he was a savior.

[Elevation inc]

It's possible, but that also means we would have to have a great defense.

well i do belive we are very good defense....but great well thats still in the distance a bit..

[slim]

No he wasnt.

He was a marginal QB for the first 58 minutes of the game and he was a stallion the last 2.

When he didnt have a chance to think, he was unstoppable.

He was exciting. But we forget all the stupid shit he did. More turnovers than TD's.

He was a bone head more than he was a savior.

You are high on crack.

[claymore]

No he wasnt.

He was a marginal QB for the first 58 minutes of the game and he was a stallion the last 2.

When he didnt have a chance to think, he was unstoppable.

He was exciting. But we forget all the stupid shit he did. More turnovers than TD's.

He was a bone head more than he was a savior.

I take that back. He had 300 Td's and 260 TO's. I counted overall fumbles and not just the ones lost.

[silkamilkamonico]

No he wasnt.

He was a marginal QB for the first 58 minutes of the game and he was a stallion the last 2.

When he didnt have a chance to think, he was unstoppable.

He was exciting. But we forget all the stupid shit he did. More turnovers than TD's.

He was a bone head more than he was a savior.

Yes he was.

He won games. At one point, he was the career leader in come from behind wins. He played well in big games.

He's like a polar opposite of Jay "fantasy football" Cutler, who put up mad stats, rarely scored when the team actually needed him to score, and has played his worst football in his career in playoff determining games, regardless of what the defense, or special teams, or the rest of the offesne played.

The only QB in the NFL currently than can be compared to John Elway's style is Ben Roethlesberger, who has more come from behind wins in the playoffs alone than 75% of the current starting QB's do in their NFl career.

Nobody cares about stats, numbers, boneheaded plays, whatever. Joe Montana and Dan Marino made boneheaded plays. People care about wins and losses.

[silkamilkamonico]

I take that back. He had 300 Td's and 260 TO's. I counted overall fumbles and not just the ones lost.

Whew! You had me there for a second clay. If I count overall fumbles with Cutler, he had more turnovers than TD's too. And I didn't want to do that because I like the way Cutler plays the game.

[claymore]

Yes he was.

He won games. At one point, he was the career leader in come from behind wins. He played well in big games.

He's like a polar opposite of Jay "fantasy football" Cutler, who put up mad stats, rarely scored when the team actually needed him to score, and has played his worst football in his career in playoff determining games, regardless of what the defense, or special teams, or the rest of the offesne played.

The only QB in the NFL currently than can be compared to John Elway's style is Ben Roethlesberger, who has more come from behind wins in the playoffs alone than 75% of the current starting QB's do in their NFl career.

Nobody cares about stats, numbers, boneheaded plays, whatever. Joe Montana and Dan Marino made boneheaded plays. People care about wins and losses.
We forget all the interceptions in those come from behind wins. Half the time we wouldnt be behind in those games if it wasnt for him in the first place.

the dude played well in big games? I remember some pretty big games where he blew ass.

He played well against the browns.

He had a 79 QB rtg over his career and had more interceptions than TD's 4 years, and one year it was tied.

Like I said. He was great when there was only 2 minutes on the clock, and no time to think.

As for Cutler, he had to score every time he touched the ball just to have a chance to win. Elway had much better teams than what Cutler had.

[arapaho2]

No wonder you have no patience. Compared to the pre-Elway era, this team has all the talent in the world.

really ? the 81-82 broncos had a probowl TE..and three pro bowl wrs..moses..watson and upchurch who was also a probowl special teamer

we have ahhhh...ummmm a Lt shanny drafted

[claymore]

Whew! You had me there for a second clay. If I count overall fumbles with Cutler, he had more turnovers than TD's too. And I didn't want to do that because I like the way Cutler plays the game.

Also look at the first 4 years of both players. Nfl.com doesnt carry fumble stats for Elways first 4. But he had 66 Td's and 65 Int's vs Cutlers 81/63

[silkamilkamonico]

We forget all the interceptions in those come from behind wins. Half the time we wouldnt be behind in those games if it wasnt for him in the first place.

the dude played well in big games? I remember some pretty big games where he blew ass.

He played well against the browns.

He had a 79 QB rtg over his career and had more interceptions than TD's 4 years, and one year it was tied.

Like I said. He was great when there was only 2 minutes on the clock, and no time to think.

As for Cutler, he had to score every time he touched the ball just to have a chance to win. Elway had much better teams than what Cutler had.

I wasn't arguing 2008. I was arguing 2009. I'm not sure why you keep using stats. Jay Cutler doesn't have great stats. And you can't use defense for that argument either, because they aren't out on the field.

I would even go a step further and say Cutler is a lot like Elway. They both made terrible mistakes. Their stats aren't mind blowing to say the least. Jay Cutler is pretty pedestrian stat wise in the NFL today when you compare him to other starters. They both have the ability to make plays to win games. That's all that matters.

[silkamilkamonico]

Also look at the first 4 years of both players. Nfl.com doesnt carry fumble stats for Elways first 4. But he had 66 Td's and 65 Int's vs Cutlers 81/63

I think that's tough to dissect it that much, because then I would have to consider that Cutler plays in a much more pass friendly NFL rule wise, and has had significantly better talent to work with offensively.

[arapaho2]

This team has more talent collectively than some of the teams theG.O.A.T.#7 brought to the SuperBowl. That's how good theG.O.A.T.#7 was.


ok today...show me one proven super star talent we have on offense....how about one player in the top of his position?

maybe you need to correct this into ...at the end of 08 we had more talent collectively than some of the teams....

[Mike]

Wow, tearing down the man to prop up Cutler. :tsk:

[claymore]

I wasn't arguing 2008. I was arguing 2009. I'm not sure why you keep using stats. Jay Cutler doesn't have great stats. And you can't use defense for that argument either, because they aren't out on the field.

I would even go a step further and say Cutler is a lot like Elway. They both made terrible mistakes. Their stats aren't mind blowing to say the least. Jay Cutler is pretty pedestrian stat wise in the NFL today when you compare him to other starters. They both have the ability to make plays to win games. That's all that matters.
Agreed.

I think that's tough to dissect it that much, because then I would have to consider that Cutler plays in a much more pass friendly NFL rule wise, and has had significantly better talent to work with offensively.
Great point and agree.

It is frustrating to me when folks harp on how glad they are that Cutler is gone because of the turnovers etc... When Our GOAT was just as bad, maybe even worse.

I think it has more to do with people blindly supporting our new coach more than what Cutler did on or off the field though.

[silkamilkamonico]

ok today...show me one proven super star talent we have on offense....how about one player in the top of his position?

maybe you need to correct this into ...at the end of 08 we had more talent collectively than some of the teams....

http://threadbombing.com/data/media/2/markey_mark_wtf.gif

Yea, I'm just going to stop right there. Especially considering "superstar" talent doesn't win playoff games, scheme's and team unity does. You don't need to look past the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints to figure that one out.

[Northman]

Umm, so did McDaniels. :confused: He was one of the most active coaches in FA that year. He traded out half the roster for HIS GUYS that turned out to be nothing more than BACKUPS in most cases. So what you're saying is that they have better personnel evaluating skills than McDaniels and can do more with less without having to throw out the baby with the bathwater?


He traded for team players that work for his system. He drafted players for depth and starting potential. Did anyone really think Sanchez would play as well as he did? Nah. Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle from the word go. I cant believe you would be so naive to think that Bowlen was only going to give this guy 1 year to produce. I really thought you were smarter than that man. :tsk:

[claymore]

Wow, tearing down the man to prop up Cutler. :tsk:

I think Im being realistic about 2 players careers.

[silkamilkamonico]

Agreed.

Great point and agree.

It is frustrating to me when folks harp on how glad they are that Cutler is gone because of the turnovers etc... When Our GOAT was just as bad, maybe even worse.

I think it has more to do with people blindly supporting our new coach more than what Cutler did on or off the field though.

You'll probably never hear me say this again because of all the trash that's talked in this forum on both sides of the argument and I simply choose where we're at now, but I really like Cutler as a player. The guy plays hard and he plays with a chip on his shoulder. He makes boneheaded plays (like everyone), and he has bad games, but you're never going to be out of a game with Cutler. He's one of those QB's that can individually throw his team out of the game, and then throw his team back in the game, and you saw that with Chicago. I'll always follow him in Chicago and love to root for (and at times against) him, but he's probably my favorite QB in the NFL to watch because of his style and the way he plays.

And yes, I am one of those that blindly supports our coach, and for that I will trash Cutler in argument, but deep down, I love watching the guy. I just take a different perspective on what happened during the falling out that led to trading him than others who back Cutler 100%.

[Elevation inc]

He traded for team players that work for his system. He drafted players for depth and starting potential. Did anyone really think Sanchez would play as well as he did? Nah. Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle from the word go. I cant believe you would be so naive to think that Bowlen was only going to give this guy 1 year to produce. I really thought you were smarter than that man. :tsk:

just a heads up to those that think he did.....


he had a rating of 63, threw for 12 TD's and 20 int's and threw for only 2400 yds....sanchez is actually a 1st year bust...his running game and defense is the only reason new york made it where they did...sanchez had nothing to do with it....

[Lonestar]

Wow, tearing down the man to prop up Cutler. :tsk:


Was just thinking the same thing. I can understand liking Cutler ut comparing him to John beyond belief.


If John would have had the talent surrounding him that jay did in those early ears there would have been no comparison, not to mention coaching and play calling. ahahahahahahahaha

[topscribe]

Umm, so did McDaniels. :confused: He was one of the most active coaches in FA that year. He traded out half the roster for HIS GUYS that turned out to be nothing more than BACKUPS in most cases. So what you're saying is that they have better personnel evaluating skills than McDaniels and can do more with less without having to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

Favre is a three-time MVP, Super Bowl champion, and a certain HOF QB.

Cutler is . . . what?

Cutler couldn't carry Favre's jockstrap. Bad comparison . . .

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I think Im being realistic about 2 players careers.

Check the players each player had around them in their first 4 years, and then come back and state that you are being realistic.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Wow, tearing down the man to prop up Cutler. :tsk:

Best post here - :salute:

[claymore]

You'll probably never hear me say this again because of all the trash that's talked in this forum on both sides of the argument and I simply choose where we're at now, but I really like Cutler as a player. The guy plays hard and he plays with a chip on his shoulder. He makes boneheaded plays (like everyone), and he has bad games, but you're never going to be out of a game with Cutler. He's one of those QB's that can individually throw his team out of the game, and then throw his team back in the game, and you saw that with Chicago. I'll always follow him in Chicago and love to root for (and at times against) him, but he's probably my favorite QB in the NFL to watch because of his style and the way he plays.

And yes, I am one of those that blindly supports our coach, and for that I will trash Cutler in argument, but deep down, I love watching the guy. I just take a different perspective on what happened during the falling out that led to trading him than others who back Cutler 100%.

Awesome Post.

[Northman]

As for Cutler, he had to score every time he touched the ball just to have a chance to win. Elway had much better teams than what Cutler had.

He didnt have to do that in Chicago this year and played his worst football yet. Even when the game was tied or had no score he threw picks that put his team in bad situations. :lol:

[claymore]

Was just thinking the same thing. I can understand liking Cutler ut comparing him to John beyond belief.


If John would have had the talent surrounding him that jay did in those early ears there would have been no comparison, not to mention coaching and play calling. ahahahahahahahaha
John was a Bronco, he isnt Jesus. Cutler and Elway are pretty darn similar in how they play the game. Cutler seems to be more conservative with the football early on though.



Check the players each player had around them in their first 4 years, and then come back and state that you are being realistic.
I have. Several times. Elway had a pretty good team. At least as good if not better than Cutlers.

I suggest you look, instead of repeating the Myth that Elway drug unwilling untalented teams with a shitty head coach to SB's.

[claymore]

He didnt have to do that in Chicago this year and played his worst football yet. Even when the game was tied or had no score he threw picks that put his team in bad situations. :lol:

He had a bad year. If it continues I will stop defending him. There are HOF QB's have had much worse years than what Cutler has had last year.

[slim]

Awesome Post.

I think most people here feel the same way as Silk, FWIW.

[claymore]

I think most people here feel the same way as Silk, FWIW.

I guess thats where I get confused.

[arapaho2]

http://threadbombing.com/data/media/2/markey_mark_wtf.gif

Yea, I'm just going to stop right there. Especially considering "superstar" talent doesn't win playoff games, scheme's and team unity does. You don't need to look past the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints to figure that one out.


im pretty sure brees is considered elite...im fairly confindent without that elite talent...in fact i'll go way out on a limb and declare IF THE SAINTS HAD ORTON the superduper team guy FOR THIER QB THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WON THE SUPERBOWL...

[topscribe]

He had a bad year. If it continues I will stop defending him. There are HOF QB's have had much worse years than what Cutler has had last year.

Problem is, Cutler has not had one of those good years that made HOF QBs what they were . . .

-----

[slim]

I guess thats where I get confused.

I don't think too many people are glad that Cutler is gone, but many don't see it as the end of the world and have decided to move on.

[Elevation inc]

I guess thats where I get confused.

many of us have mentioned it about both bmarsh and cutler...me included it just gets drowned out by the MCD hate and assumption we are all MCD jock lovers...thats not really the case....alot of us were just ready for change, and take it in stride...some of us may have dealt with so much change in our own lives this is like a pin prriiicckkk......it differs for everyone i gues.....

i think we are headed in the right direction...others dont...it is what it is....

[topscribe]

im pretty sure brees is considered elite...im fairly confindent without that elite talent...in fact i'll go way out on a limb and declare IF THE SAINTS HAD ORTON the superduper team guy FOR THIER QB THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WON THE SUPERBOWL...

You don't know that. Have you, by any chance, checked out Brees' first three years?

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

im pretty sure brees is considered elite...im fairly confindent without that elite talent...in fact i'll go way out on a limb and declare IF THE SAINTS HAD ORTON the superduper team guy FOR THIER QB THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WON THE SUPERBOWL...

Brees was an iffy talent, that fell into a great scheme/system, and became elite through that. He didn't go to New Orleans as an elite QB. Much in the way Brady has, a plethora of other highly skilled QB's in the game. Any GM will tell you that for a QB to be successful, he better fit into the right system or he stands no chance. Orton isn't elite, but he's a much better QB in Denver than he was in Chicago, and you're blind if you can't see that.

[Lancane]

I know you're just playing devils advocate, but if that isn't the biggest crock of shit ever...

Well it may be a crock of shit to you, but I don't give a rat's ass what you think... Al Davis at one point and time was considered a football mogel and genius, he has the rings to back that up.

[claymore]

Problem is, Cutler has not had one of those good years that mad HOF QBs what they were . . .

-----

He is doing far better than the vast majority of HOF players have done thru the first 4 years of his career. Marino is the only QB I know of that has put up better numbers than Cutler in the first 4 years.

It takes a good team to win and go to the playoffs.

Contrary to popular belief a Great QB cant take a shitty team to the SB.

[slim]

He is doing far better than the vast majority of HOF players have done thru the first 4 years of his career. Marino is the only QB I know of that has put up better numbers than Cutler in the first 4 years.

It takes a good team to win and go to the playoffs.

Contrary to popular belief a Great QB cant take a shitty team to the SB.

I think Cutler's numbers are a little skewed by the offensive system he played in. The WCO is geared towards high completion %, which will almost always make a QB look good (if he can resist throwing into double coverage).

Just look at the difference between Elway's numbers pre-shanny and what he did once shanny became HC.

[Northman]

He had a bad year. If it continues I will stop defending him. There are HOF QB's have had much worse years than what Cutler has had last year.


Which is why i say you cant put Cutler in that regard. You can think he has potential but he isnt in the same class as Elway. You look at what some of the best QB's have done when they came into the league and guys like Elway and Manning to their respective teams to the playoffs after the first year or so. Cutler has yet to even do that regardless of what kind of team he has around him. Does it mean he wont get better? No. But i have to laugh at those who already try and put him into elite status because of his numbers. Great Qb's are always judged by their wins and losses and right now Cutler isnt a winner.

[roomemp]

He is doing far better than the vast majority of HOF players have done thru the first 4 years of his career. Marino is the only QB I know of that has put up better numbers than Cutler in the first 4 years.

It takes a good team to win and go to the playoffs.

Contrary to popular belief a Great QB cant take a shitty team to the SB.


HoF Qb's usually take their team to the playoffs by their 4th year.

Stats prove nothing unless those stats are wins

Cutler has not even posted a record above .500 in a season

[roomemp]

He is doing far better than the vast majority of HOF players have done thru the first 4 years of his career. Marino is the only QB I know of that has put up better numbers than Cutler in the first 4 years.

It takes a good team to win and go to the playoffs.

Contrary to popular belief a Great QB cant take a shitty team to the SB.

Tell that to the great #7

[Northman]

He is doing far better than the vast majority of HOF players have done thru the first 4 years of his career. Marino is the only QB I know of that has put up better numbers than Cutler in the first 4 years.



Yet ironically he never won a SB. If i was Jay i might want to be more like the other guys. :lol:

[claymore]

I think Cutler's numbers are a little skewed by the offensive system he played in. The WCO is geared towards high completion %, which will almost always make a QB look good (if he can resist throwing into double coverage).

Just look at the difference between Elway's numbers pre-shanny and what he did once shanny became HC.
His numbers didnt change that much. His best year was without HC Shanny if I remember correctley.

I understand the offense difference. But Im not gonna fault Cutler for looking good in Shanahans offense.

Which is why i say you cant put Cutler in that regard. You can think he has potential but he isnt in the same class as Elway. You look at what some of the best QB's have done when they came into the league and guys like Elway and Manning to their respective teams to the playoffs after the first year or so. Cutler has yet to even do that regardless of what kind of team he has around him. Does it mean he wont get better? No. But i have to laugh at those who already try and put him into elite status because of his numbers. Great Qb's are always judged by their wins and losses and right now Cutler isnt a winner.
Cutler isnt Elway and he isnt Manning. I dont think he is less talented, and is capable of the same greatness. He needs to play for a quality organization. And I dont know if the bears is that organization.

Wins and losses are not how QB's are judged. Its how era's and coaches etc are judged.


HoF Qb's usually take their team to the playoffs by their 4th year.

Stats prove nothing unless those stats are wins

Cutler has not even posted a record above .500 in a season

If he was the only player on the team I would agree with you. Its a team sport though.

[claymore]

Yet ironically he never won a SB. If i was Jay i might want to be more like the other guys. :lol:

I dont like Marino in the slightest. But I cant deny his statistical greatness.

[topscribe]

He is doing far better than the vast majority of HOF players have done thru the first 4 years of his career. Marino is the only QB I know of that has put up better numbers than Cutler in the first 4 years.

It takes a good team to win and go to the playoffs.

Contrary to popular belief a Great QB cant take a shitty team to the SB.

John Elway's 2nd year numbers were 11-5. Three out of his first four years,
he quarterbacked his team to three playoffs.

Brady had the same playoff record in his first four years, except that he won
the Super Bowl all three.

By the time Brett Favre had played four years, he had already been in two
postseasons.

That's all the numbers I need . . . :coffee:

-----

[claymore]

John Elway's 2nd year numbers were 11-5. Three out of his first four years,
he quarterbacked his team to three playoffs.

Brady had the same playoff record in his first four years, except that he won
the Super Bowl all three.

By the time Brett Favre had played four years, he had already been in two
postseasons.

That's all the numbers I need . . . :coffee:

-----

Favre is a doosh. Im not even going to talk about that loser.

Elway didnt drag his team to 11-5 record. Contrary to popular belief Elways Teams didnt suck that bad in his early years. and Brady needs to thank Viniatari for all 3 of his SB rings.

[arapaho2]

You don't know that. Have you, by any chance, checked out Brees' first three years?

-----


whats that got to do with this post from silk: Yea, I'm just going to stop right there. Especially considering "superstar" talent doesn't win playoff games, scheme's and team unity does. You don't need to look past the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints to figure that one out.

im fairly sure brees is considered elite, or superstar...if you dont then you might need to get a stronger perscription

[Denver Native (Carol)]

So, after 81 posts - very few have addressed what they thought of what Coach McD and Lombardi stated on the video - any thoughts on the video discussion?

[topscribe]

Favre is a doosh. Im not even going to talk about that loser.

Elway didnt drag his team to 11-5 record. Contrary to popular belief Elways Teams didnt suck that bad in his early years. and Brady needs to thank Viniatari for all 3 of his SB rings.

Then there was Peyton Manning, 13-3 his second year and postseason two of his first four.

And Terry Bradshaw, playoffs all four of his first four years, plus two SB victories.

Lenny Dawson, two playoffs his first four years.

Fran Tarkenton, three playoffs and two SBs his first four years.

etc., etc.

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[Northman]

So, after 81 posts - very few have addressed what they thought of what Coach McD and Lombardi stated on the video - any thoughts on the video discussion?

Basically it comes down to this:

Haters- He's a liar and he traded my boyfriend.

Lovers- He shits gold and im warming up my plate.

Others- Sounds good, lets hope he can prove it on the field.

[topscribe]

whats that got to do with this post from silk: Yea, I'm just going to stop right there. Especially considering "superstar" talent doesn't win playoff games, scheme's and team unity does. You don't need to look past the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints to figure that one out.

im fairly sure brees is considered elite, or superstar...if you dont then you might need to get a stronger perscription

You said the Saints would not have won the Super Bowl with Orton. Of course,
the only way you can say that is based on what you think you've seen of Orton
in his first three years on the field (two of his years were not on the field).

Brees has been playing on the field for nine years. If you go back and check,
Brees' first two years on the field were not as good as Orton's has been. Not
that it makes much difference because you can't compare them across the
board, anyway.

But that is exactly my point. That is why I said you don't know that (that Orton
would not have won the Super Bowl). Because you don't.

-----

[claymore]

Then there was Peyton Manning, 13-3 his second year and postseason two of his first four.

And Terry Bradshaw, playoffs all four of his first four years, plus two SB victories.

Lenny Dawson, two playoffs his first four years.

Fran Tarkenton, three playoffs and two SBs his first four years.

etc., ect.

-----
So now we are comparing team success? So those teams were better than the 08 Broncos? Im not denying that.

I bet you Cutler put up better numbers then all but manning.

[topscribe]

So now we are comparing team success? So those teams were better than the 08 Broncos? Im not denying that.

I bet you Cutler put up better numbers then all but manning.

This came right out of Cutler's mouth: "Quarterbacks are paid to win games."

You tried to talk about Cutler's numbers. (Which is ironic because when I mention
numbers I get dressed down for it on this board.) He has better numbers than
the HOF QBs. Who cares? He's passed the ball a lot. So what? What has he really
accomplished? I'll answer that for you . . .

Nothing. :coffee:

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[slim]

I think it is time for second lunch.

Mexican sounds good.

[Thnikkaman]

Basically it comes down to this:

Haters- He's a liar and he traded my boyfriend.

Lovers- He shits gold and im warming up my plate.

Others- Sounds good, lets hope he can prove it on the field.

The only objection I have with this post is that the Others are being cast as Lovers by most of the Haters. So there really is very few in the Lovers category.

[slim]

The only objection I have with this post is that the Others are being cast as Lovers by most of the Haters. So there really is very few in the Lovers category.

If you don't hate McD, you are a lover :listen:

[claymore]

This came right out of Cutler's mouth: "Quarterbacks are paid to win games."

You tried to talk about Cutler's numbers. (Which is ironic because when I mention
numbers I get dressed down for it on this board.) He has better numbers than
the HOF QBs. Who cares? He's passed the ball a lot. So what? What has he really
accomplished? I'll answer that for you . . .

Nothing. :coffee:

-----

You tell me that every time we argue about something. Its a team sport Top. If you want to compare SB teams to the 08 Broncos, then Im not going to argue with you.

You are taking Cutlers statement to literall.

BTW, you cant prove that any of those teams won because of their QB's. :D

[Northman]

The only objection I have with this post is that the Others are being cast as Lovers by most of the Haters. So there really is very few in the Lovers category.

Preaching to the choir my boy. :salute:

[topscribe]

You tell me that every time we argue about something. Its a team sport Top. If you want to compare SB teams to the 08 Broncos, then Im not going to argue with you.

You are taking Cutlers statement to literall.

BTW, you cant prove that any of those teams won because of their QB's. :D

And you cannot prove Cutler's numbers prove anything against the HOFers.

It's a two-way street . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

You said the Saints would not have won the Super Bowl with Orton. Of course,
the only way you can say that is based on what you think you've seen of Orton
in his first three years on the field (two of his years were not on the field).

Brees has been playing on the field for nine years. If you go back and check,
Brees' first two years on the field were not as good as Orton's has been. Not
that it makes much difference because you can't compare them across the
board, anyway.

But that is exactly my point. That is why I said you don't know that (that Orton
would not have won the Super Bowl). Because you don't.

-----

im wasnt even gonna read your post after the first sentence..but

please top...please dont attempt to insinuate orton is anywhere near brees level
brees has been in the probowl 4 times

so now ortons time on the bench when he couldnt beat out griese or grossman dont count?..is that anything like rod saying rivers was a rookie in 06

and top ...i know you love you some orton...but he isnt considered anything more than a average qb for a reason...same as brees is considered elite for a reason....you may deny it all you want..there is no way in hell the saints win the superbowl with orton...none...zero

[arapaho2]

This came right out of Cutler's mouth: "Quarterbacks are paid to win games."

You tried to talk about Cutler's numbers. (Which is ironic because when I mention
numbers I get dressed down for it on this board.) He has better numbers than
the HOF QBs. Who cares? He's passed the ball a lot. So what? What has he really
accomplished? I'll answer that for you . . .

Nothing. :coffee:

-----

and what has orton accompished ?

oh yea nothing

[topscribe]

and what has orton accompished ?

oh yea nothing

Oh goodie . . . does that make you feel better about Cutler now?

-----

[claymore]

And you cannot prove Cutler's numbers prove anything against the HOFers.

It's a two-way street . . .

-----

Never said it did. Just saying great QB's have looked alot worse than Cutler ever did. In fact Cutler looks to be better than most.

Its harder without the gift of hindsight. Im looking at a 4 year window not an entire career.

[topscribe]

im wasnt even gonna read your post after the first sentence..but

please top...please dont attempt to insinuate orton is anywhere near brees level
brees has been in the probowl 4 times

so now ortons time on the bench when he couldnt beat out griese or grossman dont count?..is that anything like rod saying rivers was a rookie in 06

and top ...i know you love you some orton...but he isnt considered anything more than a average qb for a reason...same as brees is considered elite for a reason....you may deny it all you want..there is no way in hell the saints win the superbowl with orton...none...zero

I ask you again: Have you reviewed Brees' first two years?

Twist and spin all you want, but it is what it is. Brees is a nine-year quarterback.
By the time of his first Pro Bowl, after his 4th year, he had been with the same
team, same coach, same players, same scheme, for 4 years.

So last year, his Super Bowl year, Brees had been a quarterback in the league,
on the field, for nine (9) years. Come back after Orton has been on the field for
nine years. Until then, you do not have a clue . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Never said it did. Just saying great QB's have looked alot worse than Cutler ever did. In fact Cutler looks to be better than most.

Its harder without the gift of hindsight. Im looking at a 4 year window not an entire career.

I don't know how one can look worse than 26 interceptions . . . :whoknows:

-----

[claymore]

I don't know how one can look worse than 26 interceptions . . . :whoknows:

-----

By throwing 28 INT's. Or by throwing more INT's than TD's. (Manning and Elway)

[topscribe]

By throwing 28 INT's. Or by throwing more INT's than TD's. (Manning and Elway)

Well, we go back to achievement. Cutler has not had a winning season since his
senior year in high school. Both Manning and Elway had been in multiple playoffs
by the end of their respective first four years.

It is ludicrous that you feel you can mention Cutler in the same breath as them . . .

-----

[slim]

Mods, please close this thread.

[Lonestar]

Mods, please close this thread. BEEN thinking about this thread also.:laugh::laugh:

[TXBRONC]

This came right out of Cutler's mouth: "Quarterbacks are paid to win games."

You tried to talk about Cutler's numbers. (Which is ironic because when I mention
numbers I get dressed down for it on this board.) He has better numbers than
the HOF QBs. Who cares? He's passed the ball a lot. So what? What has he really
accomplished? I'll answer that for you . . .

Nothing. :coffee:

-----

:violin: (j/k) :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

For anyone who would like to discuss the VIDEO - I also posted it in the video thread

[Lancane]

Can I ask a question?

Who really gives a shit at this point?...

If we judge McDaniels at this time in his tenure then he's a failure...it can not be argued. When someone from the NFL actually has to use the statement 'Method to his Madness', then you relatively get that most people think the bloke has done went and gone crazy. He is forever tied to the decisions he's made, if he can not fix what he's broken, then it will be a long-time till he's given a head coaching job, unless Oakland is interested. If Cutler and Marshall become Hall of Fame players and he never does more then have one or two winning seasons then he will ever be considered as the porous dipshit who traded away two great players and never did squat.

So is there a 'Method to his Madness'? We as Broncos' fans better F'n hope so at this point. I truly don't believe his supporters are blind, they just don't want to give up hope at this point and believe in the majority opinion of our beloved team's head coach. They're defending him and his decisions because in truth it's better to try and see the picture being painted before them as hopefully being a Rembrandt rather then just another work of trash by some unknown artist. The one thing we all need to remember is in the end we are all fans of the same damn team. We all have to take the wait and see approach because in all fairness, McDaniels has decimated this team to the point that Bowlen could be forced to give him the full four years, many of us won't like that fact, especially if we don't see any hope after this year and especially the year after that.

Whether we're for or against we all have to shut the 'F' up and see where the team is headed and hope it's headed in the right direction. I'm a huge Cutler and Marshall supporter, but screw it...they're gone at this point. Orton is not a great quarterback, the offense has several issues itself and that can not be argued. 'You can blow me if you actually think Orton is elite' for any of those who wish to argue that point, because he's not elite and that's that.

McDaniels has gotten what he wanted, he's the face of this franchise, we will either win or lose because his choices and his decisions. Let's just pray that the man is not as stupid as the moves he has made makes him look. He needs a pretty solid draft and a decent record to get some more of the fandom behind him, if not the 'Anti-McDaniels' crowd will only grow...

The point I'm making is that we can debate until we're retarted, but it's not going to change, winning heals all wounds and losing only opens up more. Let's just hope the moron is up to the task.

:coffee:

[Lonestar]

Can I ask a question?

Who really gives a shit at this point?...

If we judge McDaniels at this time in his tenure then he's a failure...it can not be argued. When someone from the NFL actually has to use the statement 'Method to his Madness', then you relatively get that most people think the bloke has done went and gone crazy. He is forever tied to the decisions he's made, if he can not fix what he's broken, then it will be a long-time till he's given a head coaching job, unless Oakland is interested. If Cutler and Marshall become Hall of Fame players and he never does more then have one or two winning seasons then he will ever be considered as the porous dipshit who traded away two great players and never did squat.

So is there a 'Method to his Madness'? We as Broncos' fans better F'n hope so at this point. I truly don't believe his supporters are blind, they just don't want to give up hope at this point and believe in the majority opinion of our beloved team's head coach. They're defending him and his decisions because in truth it's better to try and see the picture being painted before them as hopefully being a Rembrandt rather then just another work of trash by some unknown artist. The one thing we all need to remember is in the end we are all fans of the same damn team. We all have to take the wait and see approach because in all fairness, McDaniels has decimated this team to the point that Bowlen could be forced to give him the full four years, many of us won't like that fact, especially if we don't see any hope after this year and especially the year after that.

Whether we're for or against we all have to shut the 'F' up and see where the team is headed and hope it's headed in the right direction. I'm a huge Cutler and Marshall supporter, but screw it...they're gone at this point. Orton is not a great quarterback, the offense has several issues itself and that can not be argued. 'You can blow me if you actually think Orton is elite' for any of those who wish to argue that point, because he's not elite and that's that.

McDaniels has gotten what he wanted, he's the face of this franchise, we will either win or lose because his choices and his decisions. Let's just pray that the man is not as stupid as the moves he has made makes him look. He needs a pretty solid draft and a decent record to get some more of the fandom behind him, if not the 'Anti-McDaniels' crowd will only grow...

The point I'm making is that we can debate until we're retarted, but it's not going to change, winning heals all wounds and losing only opens up more. Let's just hope the moron is up to the task.

:coffee:

WOW are you related to mike, jay, BM or TS in some way?

Because that is the only reason I can think you are so bitter.

[Northman]

Well, obviously there are a few who care quite a bit because they will stop at nothing to try and claim he is a failure after one year. So, if you dont give a shit why all the bitching?

[Lancane]

WOW are you related to mike, jay, BM or TS in some way?

Because that is the only reason I can think you are so bitter.

Nope, not related to any of em', I just feel we're all beating a load of dead horses and getting nowhere in the process. The board is starting to go from a friendly place to debate our opinions to a daycare full of kids calling each other names. No one side is really going to surrender and say "to hell with it", truth is we can not change any of it, whether we're for or against.

We all have to take the wait and see route at this time, nothing can be done about that no matter which side of the fence we're on.

[Lancane]

Well, obviously there are a few who care quite a bit because they will stop at nothing to try and claim he is a failure after one year. So, if you dont give a shit why all the bitching?

I care, but what can I do, or you or anybody. We have no say...

Point is that all the bitching in the world won't change a damn thing, so why attack one another so venomously over something neither side has control over? We're debating past players that will not return, how about debating the players of now and the future. I was not as upset as some about Scheffler as compared to Cutler or Marshall. But that is that... He's forever tied to his decisions and not a thing we say will change the outcome of his tenure or the trades he's made.

[topscribe]

Can I ask a question?

Who really gives a shit at this point?...

If we judge McDaniels at this time in his tenure then he's a failure...it can not be argued. When someone from the NFL actually has to use the statement 'Method to his Madness', then you relatively get that most people think the bloke has done went and gone crazy. He is forever tied to the decisions he's made, if he can not fix what he's broken, then it will be a long-time till he's given a head coaching job, unless Oakland is interested. If Cutler and Marshall become Hall of Fame players and he never does more then have one or two winning seasons then he will ever be considered as the porous dipshit who traded away two great players and never did squat.

So is there a 'Method to his Madness'? We as Broncos' fans better F'n hope so at this point. I truly don't believe his supporters are blind, they just don't want to give up hope at this point and believe in the majority opinion of our beloved team's head coach. They're defending him and his decisions because in truth it's better to try and see the picture being painted before them as hopefully being a Rembrandt rather then just another work of trash by some unknown artist. The one thing we all need to remember is in the end we are all fans of the same damn team. We all have to take the wait and see approach because in all fairness, McDaniels has decimated this team to the point that Bowlen could be forced to give him the full four years, many of us won't like that fact, especially if we don't see any hope after this year and especially the year after that.

Whether we're for or against we all have to shut the 'F' up and see where the team is headed and hope it's headed in the right direction. I'm a huge Cutler and Marshall supporter, but screw it...they're gone at this point. Orton is not a great quarterback, the offense has several issues itself and that can not be argued. 'You can blow me if you actually think Orton is elite' for any of those who wish to argue that point, because he's not elite and that's that.

McDaniels has gotten what he wanted, he's the face of this franchise, we will either win or lose because his choices and his decisions. Let's just pray that the man is not as stupid as the moves he has made makes him look. He needs a pretty solid draft and a decent record to get some more of the fandom behind him, if not the 'Anti-McDaniels' crowd will only grow...

The point I'm making is that we can debate until we're retarted, but it's not going to change, winning heals all wounds and losing only opens up more. Let's just hope the moron is up to the task.

:coffee:

Wow. Deep breaths, Cane . . . deep breaths. :shocked:

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