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broncohead
04-19-2010, 12:23 PM
Lions acquired TE Tony Scheffler and a 2010 seventh-round pick from the Broncos in a three-team trade that also sent LB Ernie Sims to the Eagles in exchange for a 2010 fifth-round pick.

Denver gets the fifth-rounder. Scheffler, strictly a pass-catching tight end, will play behind Brandon Pettigrew once Detroit's starter returns from his torn ACL. Scheffler adds a vertical threat to Matthew Stafford's arsenal, taking more pressure off Calvin Johnson. Pettigrew and Scheffler figure to cancel each other out in terms of 2010 fantasy value. Though injury prone, Sims gives the Birds a physical presence on the weak side. Both Scheffler and Sims are in contract years and Denver didn't acquire a premium pick. This is a low-risk deal all around, with potentially high rewards for Philly and Detroit. Apr. 19 - 11:43 am et
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

WARHORSE
04-19-2010, 12:23 PM
Three-way trade sends Tony Scheffler to Detroit, Ernie Sims to Philly

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 19, 2010 11:41 AM ET
An offseason full of big-name trades has added another significant deal to the mix.

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports on a three-way trade between the Eagles, Broncos, and Lions. Linebacker Ernie Sims will land in Philadelphia, while tight end Tony Scheffler goes to the Lions.

PFT's Mike Florio reports that the Broncos will get a fifth-round pick from the Eagles. Denver will send a seventh-round pick to the Lions.

It's not a great deal for the Broncos, who wanted a third-round pick for their promising young tight end. Instead, they essentially dumped Scheffler to move up two rounds on the draft's third day.

The move also shows how down the Lions were on Sims' long-term prospects.






I know everyone already knows.......but I didnt see a thread.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 12:25 PM
wow more brilliance from mcdoogie... scheffler and our 7th for a 5th round pick

sanluis
04-19-2010, 12:29 PM
Wow. I thought he was worth a little more than that... :shocked:

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 12:29 PM
wow more brilliance from mcdoogie... scheffler and our 7th for a 5th round pick

Yeah, demand was so high for a no-block, all-cry tight end that the best the team could do was a pick swap, and that only happened after said all-cry tight end promised he wouldn't look for a new contract:


Tony Scheffler is pumped about joining the Lions, but he had to tell coach Jim Schwartz he would not seek a new contract before Detroit agreed to acquire him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/19/scheffler-agrees-not-to-seek-new-contract-with-lions/

With the price tag ending up so low, how is it that Shanahan didn't step up and make the move if Scheffler is such a stud?

Denver Native (Carol)
04-19-2010, 12:29 PM
wow more brilliance from mcdoogie... scheffler and our 7th for a 5th round pick

Face it - the Broncos could have got Payton Manning and the Colts #1 pick, and you would have found something to complain about :tsk:

They are lucky they got anything for Scheffler - they could have waited until training camp, and cut him, with nothing in return.

Northman
04-19-2010, 12:29 PM
Wow. I thought he was worth a little more than that... :shocked:

By potential yes. But injuries and quitting on the team not really when you break it all down.

Buff
04-19-2010, 12:30 PM
I was hoping for a 4th, but after Santonio went for a 5th I knew that was wishful thinking at best.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-19-2010, 12:32 PM
Wow. I thought he was worth a little more than that... :shocked:

Not really - no team was turning flips to get him

topscribe
04-19-2010, 12:32 PM
Face it - the Broncos could have got Payton Manning and the Colts #1 pick, and you would have found something to complain about :tsk:

They are lucky they got anything for Scheffler - they could have waited until training camp, and cut him, with nothing in return.

I'm kind of disappointed, too. Not to the point of denigrating McDaniels, but I
was hoping for something more than that. However, it doesn't look as if teams
are giving up an awful lot for any player this year . . .

-----

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Yeah, demand was so high for a no-block, all-cry tight end that the best the team could do was a pick swap, and that only happened after said all-cry tight end promised he wouldn't look for a new contract:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/19/scheffler-agrees-not-to-seek-new-contract-with-lions/

With the price tag ending up so low, how is it that Shanahan didn't step up and make the move if Scheffler is such a stud?

yeah cause the nfl has no need for pass catching TEs with limted blocking...like tony gonzalos, gates
:confused:

broncofaninfla
04-19-2010, 12:34 PM
It would be one thing for Sheff to be traded for a fith but Sheff AND a seventh for a fifth is very disappointing.

Who's left from the 06 class? Doom next?

SOCALORADO.
04-19-2010, 12:34 PM
I was hoping for a 4th, but after Santonio went for a 5th I knew that was wishful thinking at best.

Agreed. I was optomistic of a 4th, but i think DET has the 1st 5th in that round, so its not all that bad.
DEN needs O-line, and thats where alot of quality O-linemen will be. Or TE Dennis Pitta might still be on the boards by the 1st pick of the 5th, guys a hardworking player with a great attitude.
As for Sheffler, he can maybe get back into contact with his ol boyfriend
Intler since they will be in the same division now.
Good riddance to another whiner.

Ziggy
04-19-2010, 12:35 PM
I really thought the Broncos could get a 5th straight up. This wasn't a great trade for value in my eyes, but it clears out the last cancer on the team. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-19-2010, 12:35 PM
I'm kind of disappointed, too. Not to the point of denigrating McDaniels, but I
was hoping for something more than that. However, it doesn't look as if teams
are giving up an awful lot for any player this year . . .

-----

It was to be expected that if the Broncos did work out a deal, it would be little or nothing - no team was knocking down the Broncos' door to get him. They had 2 options - take whatever they could, or cut him in training camp, and get nothing in return.

claymore
04-19-2010, 12:36 PM
It would be one thing for Sheff to be traded for a fith but Sheff AND a seventh for a fifth is very disappointing.

Who's left from the 06 class? Doom next?

I hope so. Lets get rid of all the excuses.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 12:36 PM
I'm kind of disappointed, too. Not to the point of denigrating McDaniels, but I
was hoping for something more than that. However, it doesn't look as if teams
are giving up an awful lot for any player this year . . .

-----
for that matter very few are doing anything with RFA's..
Glad he is gone now maybe we can move on, well most of us that is.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

BroncoWave
04-19-2010, 01:18 PM
yeah cause the nfl has no need for pass catching TEs with limted blocking...like tony gonzalos, gates
:confused:

To put Scheffler in even the same paragraph as those guys, nonetheless he same sentence, is just retarded.

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 01:20 PM
yeah cause the nfl has no need for pass catching TEs with limted blocking...like tony gonzalos, gates
:confused:

McDaniels didn't trade a future hall of fame tight end. He traded a backup tight end to a team that's going to use him as a backup tight end. In the meantime, the Broncos can just pick any two month old infant out of the stands to get an upgrade over Scheffler's blocking.

ikillz0mbies
04-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Good freakin' riddance he's gone. The Broncos were no way in hell going to get any higher than a 5th for a one-dimensional, injury-prone tight end. With that extra fifth, they could probably get Dennis Pitta from BYU.

ikillz0mbies
04-19-2010, 01:23 PM
yeah cause the nfl has no need for pass catching TEs with limted blocking...like tony gonzalos, gates
:confused:

You're kidding right? You're comparing Scheffler to a hall of famer? That's right because Scheffler has proven he's on the same level as those guys.......:lol:

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 01:24 PM
yeah cause the nfl has no need for pass catching TEs with limted blocking...like tony gonzalos, gates
:confused:


Easy to be confused when you have not a clue in the scheme we are running.

We run a modified spread offense that uses the TE to be the edge setting blocker for running plays and to PAss protect in the passing game.

Have a deep threat at TE is not required or desired in this Offense . They have to be able to block first and for most and catch as a third option.

If they can indeed BLOCK play TEAM ball and catch then he would be great but since TS never saw a defender he like to block he was as worthless in DEN as teats on a boar.

Blocking is a state of mind and if your only wanting to catch passes then your not going to play much in DEN, he did not have the size or SPEED to be a WR, that does virtually no LOS blocking.

GOT it?

Buff
04-19-2010, 01:28 PM
Agreed. I was optomistic of a 4th, but i think DET has the 1st 5th in that round, so its not all that bad.
DEN needs O-line, and thats where alot of quality O-linemen will be. Or TE Dennis Pitta might still be on the boards by the 1st pick of the 5th, guys a hardworking player with a great attitude.
As for Sheffler, he can maybe get back into contact with his ol boyfriend
Intler since they will be in the same division now.
Good riddance to another whiner.

Good point on Detroit having the 1st pick of the 5th round. Essentially like taking a 4th rounder from a playoff team last year.

MileHighCrew
04-19-2010, 01:30 PM
I liked Tony on the field and wish him luck. He didn't fit in the system and he quit on the coach, ( and the team and the fans but this is not my point) and for that I am glad he is off to Detroit. I loved to watch him play but I am not upset about this like other trades. I am not a McD fan but I don't like the way he handled himself.

Ziggy
04-19-2010, 01:32 PM
Good point on Detroit having the 1st pick of the 5th round. Essentially like taking a 4th rounder from a playoff team last year.

It's not Detroit's 5th. They traded that to Seattle for Rob Sims. The pick we got is actually Cleveland's original 5th, which I believe is the 7th pick in the 5th round.

ikillz0mbies
04-19-2010, 01:34 PM
Easy to be confused when you have not a clue in the scheme we are running.

We run a modified spread offense that uses the TE to be the edge setting blocker for running plays and to PAss protect in the passing game.

Have a deep threat at TE is not required or desired in this Offense . They have to be able to block first and for most and catch as a third option.

If they can indeed BLOCK play TEAM ball and catch then he would be great but since TS never saw a defender he like to block he was as worthless in DEN as teats on a boar.

Blocking is a state of mind and if your only wanting to catch passes then your not going to play much in DEN, he did not have the size or SPEED to be a WR, that does virtually no LOS blocking.

GOT it?

After a season with a new head coach, how come some people fail to realize that with a new coach comes new schemes. With new schemes, you need to get rid of players who don't fit them and bring in players who do. It's pretty simple.

As JR stated and outlined, Scheffler did not fit the mold of a tight end that McDaniels was looking for. I'm not saying Scheffler is a horrible tight end. He is a good pass catching, deep threat target that can cause major mismatches for defense. But why keep him on the team if this system that McDaniels is implementing doesn't have a need for him?

Even in Detroit, he's not going to be a 1st string tight end. He's going to be behind Brandon Pettigrew who I think is a more complete tight end. For those who think he is a great tight end have to re-evaluate him again.

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't like the fact that we threw in a 7th rounder as well. But its just like we moved up slightly in the draft. But its better then cutting him. So at least we got some value. Another Shanny player out the door. :elefant:

dogfish
04-19-2010, 01:36 PM
well, that's that. . . i was hoping mcD would use his offensive genius to get the most out of a dynamic athlete at the position, but the writing's been on the wall since we traded up for quinn. . .

well, now all of the whiny, selfish, me-first crybaby shanny cancers are gone-- and hillis with them just for good measure. . . they take with them all remaining excuses. . . josh has used up his allotment of "it's all the player's fault, i can't win with these bums he left me!" get out of jail free cards. . . anyone who survived the purge is now officially a mcdaniels guy, even if he was signed or drafted by shanahan. . .

here's hoping the addition by subtraction thing works the way it's supposed to. . . .

Buff
04-19-2010, 01:36 PM
It's not Detroit's 5th. They traded that to Seattle for Rob Sims. The pick we got is actually Cleveland's original 5th, which I believe is the 7th pick in the 5th round.

Oh, well then screw it, give me my pitch fork!

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 01:41 PM
It's not Detroit's 5th. They traded that to Seattle for Rob Sims. The pick we got is actually Cleveland's original 5th, which I believe is the 7th pick in the 5th round.

Except on Tuesday if your wearing green socks and have one blue and one Brown eye.

Damn sure glad we have computer to keep take of this things.

claymore
04-19-2010, 01:46 PM
Except on Tuesday if your wearing green socks and have one blue and one Brown eye.

Damn sure glad we have computer to keep take of this things.

Everyone has at least one Brown eye Jr.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 01:47 PM
It's not Detroit's 5th. They traded that to Seattle for Rob Sims. The pick we got is actually Cleveland's original 5th, which I believe is the 7th pick in the 5th round.

Are you guys sure? The way the article reads to me, the Lions got Scheffler and our 7th rounder - the Eagles got Ernie Sims - and we got PHILLY'S 5th rounder which is quite a bit lower.

If we just traded Scheff and a 7th for Detroit's (Cleveland's) 5th, why the hell is Philly even part of it?

Pretty sure we got Philly's 5th (which is darn near a 6th). That being the case, we traded Scheffler for a 6th. The 7th and late 5th cancel into a sixth round pick for Scheffler.

slim
04-19-2010, 01:51 PM
We received pick number 137 (6th pick in the 5th round).

If you look only at the Draft Value Chart, we actually received more net value than Pit did for Holmes.

But apparently, that is not enough for a back up TE.

Northman
04-19-2010, 01:54 PM
We received pick number 137 (6th pick in the 5th round).

If you look only at the Draft Value Chart, we actually received more net value than Pit did for Holmes.

But apparently, that is not enough for a back up TE.

Exactly. 137 is hardly a 6th round pick.

GEM
04-19-2010, 01:55 PM
If he was crying that he wanted Denver's season to end, I don't even want to hear what he's going to have to say by mid season with the Lions. :laugh:

frauschieze
04-19-2010, 01:56 PM
Are you guys sure? The way the article reads to me, the Lions got Scheffler and our 7th rounder - the Eagles got Ernie Sims - and we got PHILLY'S 5th rounder which is quite a bit lower.

If we just traded Scheff and a 7th for Detroit's (Cleveland's) 5th, why the hell is Philly even part of it?

Pretty sure we got Philly's 5th (which is darn near a 6th). That being the case, we traded Scheffler for a 6th. The 7th and late 5th cancel into a sixth round pick for Scheffler.

Philly has Cleveland's 5th. :salute:

Northman
04-19-2010, 01:59 PM
If he was crying that he wanted Denver's season to end, I don't even want to hear what he's going to have to say by mid season with the Lions. :laugh:

lol, no kidding. I call it Karma.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 02:06 PM
Broncos trade Scheffler, get fifth rounder
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
POSTED: 04/19/2010 10:05:46 AM MDT
UPDATED: 04/19/2010 11:34:06 AM MDT

Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler and a seventh-round draft pick have been traded to the Detroit Lions in a three-team trade that sends the Philadelphia Eagles' fifth-round draft choice to Denver and Detroit outside linebacker Ernie Sims, a former top 10 draft pick, to the Philadelphia Eagles.

"Restore the Roar!" Scheffler said this morning as he answered the phone, referring to the Lions' slogan.

Scheffler grew up a Lions' fan in Chelsea, Mich., an hour's drive from Detroit.

"I was just talking to my brother about that," Scheffler said. "It's going to be surreal walking into that locker room and putting on those clothes for the first time."

He'll pinch himself soon enough. The Lions are having an organized training activity Tuesday and they've asked Scheffler to be there.
Say this for the Broncos: They have taken the high road when it comes to granting the wishes of disgruntled stars who want out.

Star quarterback Jay Cutler demanded a trade last year and the Broncos worked out a deal with the Chicago Bears, the team he rooted for while growing up in Indiana.

Brandon Marshall made it clear he wanted out and the Broncos traded their top receiver last week to Miami, which is down the road from his hometown in Orlando.

And now the talented Scheffler will go home, again.

"It's ironic it ended up that way," Scheffler said. "I think something had to be done, but the way it worked out for all of us I think we're all excited."

That Scheffler wound up in Detroit is a bit surprising considering the Lions last year used a first-round pick, and $9.4 million in financial guarantees, on tight end Brandon Pettigrew. However, Pettigrew suffered a season-ending torn anterior cruciate ligament on his left knee in Game 11 against Green Bay.

Scheffler not only adds protection in case Pettigrew takes awhile to rebound, but he will play on the affordable $1.176 million salary he was tendered by the Broncos as a restricted free agent last month.

The three-team trade went through after Scheffler talked to Lions coach Jim Schwartz by phone and agreed not to seek a new contract. Scheffler would become an unrestricted free agent after this season if the league reaches a new collective bargaining agreement.

Scheffler is excited to be joining a Lions' offense led by quarterback Matthew Stafford, the No. 1 overall draft pick in the 2009 draft who had some big games as a rookie.

"Just hearing Jay (Cutler) talk about him — their personalities are different but I think they're very similar about how they play on the field," Scheffler said. "I'm looking forward to playing with a young quarterback who has an arm like that."


During his four seasons with the Broncos, Scheffler led all tight ends with a 13.7-yard per catch average. He was unhappy with his limited use in 2009 and his complaints to teammates got back to coach Josh McDaniels, who essentially suspended Scheffler from the final game of the season.

"It's unfortunate the way it ended there," Scheffler said. "But it's a business and I'm excited about playing for the Lions."

Sims, who the Lions selected with the No. 9 pick in the 2006 draft, is in the final year of his five-year rookie deal that will pay him $1.05 million this year.

Stay logged on to denverpost.com for more information as it becomes available.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

dogfish
04-19-2010, 02:08 PM
lol, no kidding. I call it Karma.

you know mcD has a little extra bounce in his step today after sending chef to detroit. . .

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 02:09 PM
Hey Josh has made three players happy sending them all home after their stints with DEN.

MileHighCrew
04-19-2010, 02:11 PM
Not that I think this is a bad trade because I don't but.... Why do people keep saying it isn't a 5th round pick because it is high in the round. There has to be a line somewhere and that is the line. It is the 5th round.

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 02:12 PM
He was unhappy with his limited use in 2009 and his complaints to teammates got back to coach Josh McDaniels,

http://www.denverpost.com/frontpage/ci_14913814?source=rss

:coffee:

Denver Native (Carol)
04-19-2010, 02:14 PM
After a season with a new head coach, how come some people fail to realize that with a new coach comes new schemes. With new schemes, you need to get rid of players who don't fit them and bring in players who do. It's pretty simple.

As JR stated and outlined, Scheffler did not fit the mold of a tight end that McDaniels was looking for. I'm not saying Scheffler is a horrible tight end. He is a good pass catching, deep threat target that can cause major mismatches for defense. But why keep him on the team if this system that McDaniels is implementing doesn't have a need for him?

Even in Detroit, he's not going to be a 1st string tight end. He's going to be behind Brandon Pettigrew who I think is a more complete tight end. For those who think he is a great tight end have to re-evaluate him again.

Totally agree that "it's pretty simple", unless you can't stand Coach McDaniels, and then pretty simple common sense is thrown out the door :tsk:

Denver Native (Carol)
04-19-2010, 02:17 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/frontpage/ci_14913814?source=rss

:coffee:

From this article on denverpost.com:

Say this for the Broncos: They have taken the high road when it comes to granting the wishes of disgruntled stars who want out.

Star quarterback Jay Cutler demanded a trade last year and the Broncos worked out a deal with the Chicago Bears, the team he rooted for while growing up in Indiana.

Brandon Marshall made it clear he wanted out and the Broncos traded their top receiver last week to Miami, which is down the road from his hometown in Orlando.

And now the talented Scheffler will go home, again.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 02:19 PM
What, no bag of balls?
By MIKE KLIS

About a month ago, I talked to a Broncos player about the certainty that was the team trading Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler.

The player said Marshall was going to put some stess on the club because Marshall is one of the league’s top 10 players and they had to get something close to a first-round pick in return for him. The Broncos eventually got two, second-round picks. Even if next year’s second-rounder has a present-day value of a third-round pick, that’s a present-day package of second and third-round picks _ or the equivalent of a first-round pick in the 20s overall. Pretty good.

But Scheffler, the Broncos player said, was another matter. The player felt Josh McDaniels was so finished with Scheffler that the Broncos would release him if they couldn’t get anything back in a trade.

Apparently, NFL teams figured as much. So while a fifth round pick in return for Scheffler and a seventh round pick (which when converted to straight-up terms means the Broncos essentially got an early sixth-round pick for the tight end) doesn’t sound like much, compensation could have been worse.

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 02:22 PM
What, no bag of balls?
By MIKE KLIS

About a month ago, I talked to a Broncos player about the certainty that was the team trading Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler.

The player said Marshall was going to put some stess on the club because Marshall is one of the league’s top 10 players and they had to get something close to a first-round pick in return for him. The Broncos eventually got two, second-round picks. Even if next year’s second-rounder has a present-day value of a third-round pick, that’s a present-day package of second and third-round picks _ or the equivalent of a first-round pick in the 20s overall. Pretty good.

But Scheffler, the Broncos player said, was another matter. The player felt Josh McDaniels was so finished with Scheffler that the Broncos would release him if they couldn’t get anything back in a trade.

Apparently, NFL teams figured as much. So while a fifth round pick in return for Scheffler and a seventh round pick (which when converted to straight-up terms means the Broncos essentially got an early sixth-round pick for the tight end) doesn’t sound like much, compensation could have been worse.

These are the times when you wish those players would go on the record so you could figure out if it was a team leader or someone on the end of the bench talking about it.

Denver Native (Carol)
04-19-2010, 02:23 PM
Are you guys sure? The way the article reads to me, the Lions got Scheffler and our 7th rounder - the Eagles got Ernie Sims - and we got PHILLY'S 5th rounder which is quite a bit lower.

If we just traded Scheff and a 7th for Detroit's (Cleveland's) 5th, why the hell is Philly even part of it?

Pretty sure we got Philly's 5th (which is darn near a 6th). That being the case, we traded Scheffler for a 6th. The 7th and late 5th cancel into a sixth round pick for Scheffler.

Still better than not making a trade at all - cutting him in training camp - and getting nothing in return. This may have been the only team who approached the Broncos, and it was also reported that Scheffler had to agree with Detroit, before the trade was accomplished, that he would NOT seek a new contract this year.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 02:24 PM
These are the times when you wish those players would go on the record so you could figure out if it was a team leader or someone on the end of the bench talking about it.


I guess it does not matter as they ALL have more insight than we have here.

Most likely with less bias also.

Lancane
04-19-2010, 02:24 PM
What, no bag of balls?
By MIKE KLIS

About a month ago, I talked to a Broncos player about the certainty that was the team trading Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler.

The player said Marshall was going to put some stess on the club because Marshall is one of the league’s top 10 players and they had to get something close to a first-round pick in return for him. The Broncos eventually got two, second-round picks. Even if next year’s second-rounder has a present-day value of a third-round pick, that’s a present-day package of second and third-round picks _ or the equivalent of a first-round pick in the 20s overall. Pretty good.

But Scheffler, the Broncos player said, was another matter. The player felt Josh McDaniels was so finished with Scheffler that the Broncos would release him if they couldn’t get anything back in a trade.

Apparently, NFL teams figured as much. So while a fifth round pick in return for Scheffler and a seventh round pick (which when converted to straight-up terms means the Broncos essentially got an early sixth-round pick for the tight end) doesn’t sound like much, compensation could have been worse.

Actually the 137th is a fairly high fifth round pick, the seventh round pick we parted with was only worth 4.6 points, so we actually got a mid fifth round pick or value wise for him. I just don't understand why Detroit wanted the 7th overall pick?...lol.

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 02:26 PM
I guess it does not matter as they ALL have more insight than we have here.

Most likely with less bias also.

True, but a guy like Bailey/Brady/Manning making that sort of observation without hostility towards the coach/front office/owner would carry more weight than a special teamer just trying to cling to his job.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 02:26 PM
Actually the 137th is a fairly high fifth round pick, the seventh round pick we parted with was only worth 4.6 points, so we actually got a mid fifth round pick or value wise for him. I just don't understand why Detroit wanted the 7th overall pick?...lol.


maybe to save face? felt they needed some thing other than TS for the pick/player

CoachChaz
04-19-2010, 02:27 PM
If the best offer we couls find was sending him to Detroit in a 3-team deal for a low 5th round pick...what does that say about his value?

Yes, i know some will blame his value on McD, but really...did anyone think he was worth more? Why?

T.K.O.
04-19-2010, 02:29 PM
stafford has what it takes to turn the lions around,if they get some much needed oline help they could easily become an 8-8 team,which is a familiar record for sheffler.
i just hope he does'nt mind missing the boat when the broncos win the afcw next year !:salute:
i do like sheffler and i will never forget watching him do that "ape walk" across the endzone last year(you know ...in those awesome vertically striped socks and all).....it was hilarious .
thanks for all your hard work tony and good luck in detroit.too bad it did'nt work out and i hope you dont end up ridin' the pine for years to come behind pettigrew.likely sheff will go to chicago in 2011 anyway.

topscribe
04-19-2010, 02:31 PM
Totally agree that "it's pretty simple", unless you can't stand Coach McDaniels, and then pretty simple common sense is thrown out the door :tsk:

I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

Nomad
04-19-2010, 02:32 PM
:lol:Damn there goes Tridon Holliday at the 7th pick!!

It's done, now McDaniels should have players that want to be here and play hard. Hopefully he uses these picks wisely (then again there's a million opinions on what a wise draft is). Looking forward to the draft!!

Traveler
04-19-2010, 02:35 PM
:lol:Damn there goes Tridon Holliday at the 7th pick!!

It's done, now McDaniels should have players that want to be here and play hard. Hopefully he uses these picks wisely (then again there's a million opinions on what a wise draft is). Looking forward to the draft!!

Actually, I'm not going to watch it. Haven't done so in the last ten years. Though I will check the board regularly to see how pissed off everyone might be.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 02:39 PM
I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

QFT. This is also the way I felt about Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis and every other guy that contributed in the '08 season but disappeared last year...

Nomad
04-19-2010, 02:39 PM
Actually, I'm not going to watch it. Haven't done so in the last ten years. Though I will check the board regularly to see how pissed off everyone might be.

Last year was the first year I actually sat down and watched a whole draft.....never again! I'll probably watch to see who the BRONCOS pick in the 1st and maybe 2nd rds but not the whole thing ever again!

You betcha there will be pissing and moaning going on because not everyone will be happy!

claymore
04-19-2010, 02:41 PM
I think I like the draft almost as much as I like the games.

Lancane
04-19-2010, 02:43 PM
I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

Welcome to the beginning of your fall to the Darkside! :lol:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f229/lancane/LordVader.jpg

Northman
04-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Last year was the first year I actually sat down and watched a whole draft.....never again! I'll probably watch to see who the BRONCOS pick in the 1st and maybe 2nd rds but not the whole thing ever again!

You betcha there will be pissing and moaning going on because not everyone will be happy!

Of course, we all know better than McDaniels. :laugh:

topscribe
04-19-2010, 02:46 PM
Welcome to the beginning of your fall to the Darkside! :lol:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f229/lancane/LordVader.jpg

Don't count on it, Cane. :makes cross sign with fingers:

-----

Nomad
04-19-2010, 02:46 PM
Scheffler is happy now because he is in the same division as his BFF and a lot shorter distance to visit each other:hug:!!

Nomad
04-19-2010, 02:48 PM
Of course, we all know better than McDaniels. :laugh:

I've learned I don't know shit about running an NFL team! :D

topscribe
04-19-2010, 02:50 PM
I've learned I don't know shit about running an NFL team! :D

And here I was going to be a reference for you, should you have applied . . . :tsk:

-----

Lancane
04-19-2010, 02:50 PM
Don't count on it, Cane. :makes cross sign with fingers:

-----

Hehehe... http://www.funbumperstickers.com/images/Little_Devil.gif


:laugh:

topscribe
04-19-2010, 02:52 PM
Hehehe... http://http://www.sunhairsimscreations.com/forum/images/smilies/devil-animated-animation-devil-smiley-emoticon-000386-medium.gif


:laugh:

Don't give me that evil laugh.

I'll turn Clay's goat out on you . . . then you'll think "hehehe." http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed-1.gif

-----

Nomad
04-19-2010, 02:53 PM
And here I was going to be a reference for you, should you have applied . . . :tsk:

-----

Thanks but I'll stick to coaching youth football though I did move up to Jr High (my oldest sons school) last year coaching secondary!!

Lancane
04-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Scheffler is happy now because he is in the same division as his BFF and a lot shorter distance to visit each other:hug:!!

More like he's happy that he's back home since he's from there. So happy that he's not even pushing for a contract right away.

Funny how those whom are headaches for McDaniels seem to have better attitudes elsewhere?

:confused:

Northman
04-19-2010, 02:55 PM
I've learned I don't know shit about running an NFL team! :D

I havent tried yet so i wont count myself out. :D

T.K.O.
04-19-2010, 02:55 PM
Hehehe... http://www.funbumperstickers.com/images/Little_Devil.gif


:laugh:

you should photoshop a broncos hoodie on that little dude and .....BAM !
sweet new avy:laugh:

topscribe
04-19-2010, 02:55 PM
Thanks but I'll stick to coaching youth football though I did move up to Jr High (my oldest sons school) last year coaching secondary!!

I coached my son's Little League baseball team once. Even got kicked out of a game! :laugh:



I should have been kicked out of coaching . . . :tsk:



-----

Nomad
04-19-2010, 02:55 PM
More like he's happy that he's back home since he's from there. So happy that he's not even pushing for a contract right away.

Funny how those whom are headaches for McDaniels seem to have better attitudes elsewhere?

:confused:

I will agree with players continue to follow this trend though at least the players get to go home or to their favorite childhood teams!:D

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 02:56 PM
I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

Relax man. We got Richard Quinn. Hes primed and ready for a breakout year. :elefant: :lol:

topscribe
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Relax man. We got Richard Quinn. Hes primed and ready for a breakout year. :elefant: :lol:

:tsk:

-----

claymore
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Don't give me that evil laugh.

I'll turn Clay's goat out on you . . . then you'll think "hehehe." http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed-1.gif

-----

I traded the goat for a one legged donkey with a big penis. Its pretty useless, but it fits my system and it wants to be here.

Lancane
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
Relax man. We got Richard Quinn. Hes primed and ready for a breakout year. :elefant: :lol:

And thus this is the exact reason why cannibus has not been legalized, it really does hinder the mind!

:lol:

claymore
04-19-2010, 02:58 PM
And thus this is the exact reason why cannibus has not been legalized, it really does hinder the mind!

:lol:

I think I need to smoke it to approve of McDaniels.

Nomad
04-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I coached my son's Little League baseball team once. Even got kicked out of a game! :laugh:



I should have been kicked out of coaching . . . :tsk:



-----

It's funny because the coaches and parents are more emotional/wacked out than the kids are most of the time!! Baseball starts here in about couple weeks.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

Last year we simply did not have the OLINE to get anyone deep consistently , Since he was a liability on the LOS and apparently showed little or no intreats in trying to BLOCK

With his late year FUBAR I just do not think Josh had the reason to try and keep him. IF he was willing for the season to end after week 16 what was he like prior to that?

Lancane
04-19-2010, 03:00 PM
Don't give me that evil laugh.

I'll turn Clay's goat out on you . . . then you'll think "hehehe." http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed-1.gif

-----

Oooh, better then his supposed one legged donkey with a huge whatchamacallit...lol.

I'm a Luciferian remember, the goat is a sacred animal to us. :D

Lancane
04-19-2010, 03:05 PM
It's funny because the coaches and parents are more emotional/wacked out than the kids are most of the time!! Baseball starts here in about couple weeks.

That's because parents are in all sense of the word bias, so when their children are hurt or don't play up to their potential, a parent or guardian will be more emotional and will become verbal or worse.

Don't forget the fist fight that soccer mom started a few years back that turned into a brawl...lol.

topscribe
04-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Last year we simply did not have the OLINE to get anyone deep consistently , Since he was a liability on the LOS and apparently showed little or no intreats in trying to BLOCK

With his late year FUBAR I just do not think Josh had the reason to try and keep him. IF he was willing for the season to end after week 16 what was he like prior to that?

Scheffler made the comment, yes. I can relate. I have gotten discouraged and
made noises about quitting before, too.

I'm not all that sure about his not making efforts to block. He was not initially
good at it. That's for sure. But it is my understanding that he was improving. But
they have blockers, good ones, in Graham and Quinn.

Shoot, Scheffler was capable even of splitting out wide. Shades of Vincent
Jackson.

I'm sure I'll get over it, especially if I see a good outcome from this. But for right
now, I'm having a hard time over it . . .

-----

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 03:12 PM
Overall, this is pretty good compensation for Scheffler.

For all the people who call it a "steal" of a deal, then you seriously have to reconsider everything McDaniels gave up to get Richard, don't call me Dick, Quinn. The same guy who had 12 catches in college. IIRC we gave up two 3rds to move up and draft him. So if Scheffler's deal is a steal then Quinn's was thievery of Enron proportions!

It also brings up another interesting point. The most ardent McDaniels supporters are happy to see him shipping off the disgruntled and "troublemakers." Yet I see a double standard. I see a guy named Richard Quinn, who this team gave up much for, do absolutely nothing in his first year. OH WAIT! He was arrested before camp even began. Where is his ticket out of town? :confused: Are we shipping troublemakers out or just the ones that Shanahan drafted?

claymore
04-19-2010, 03:14 PM
Overall, this is pretty good compensation for Scheffler.

For all the people who call it a "steal" of a deal, then you seriously have to reconsider everything McDaniels gave up to get Richard, don't call me Dick, Quinn. The same guy who had 12 catches in college. IIRC we gave up two 3rds to move up and draft him. So if Scheffler's deal is a steal then Quinn's was thievery of Enron proportions!

It also brings up another interesting point. The most ardent McDaniels supporters are happy to see him shipping off the disgruntled and "troublemakers." Yet I see a double standard. I see a guy named Richard Quinn, who this team gave up much for, do absolutely nothing in his first year. OH WAIT! He was arrested before camp even began. Where is his ticket out of town? :confused: Are we shipping troublemakers out or just the ones that Shanahan drafted?
Excellent Post.

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Overall, this is pretty good compensation for Scheffler.

For all the people who call it a "steal" of a deal, then you seriously have to reconsider everything McDaniels gave up to get Richard, don't call me Dick, Quinn. The same guy who had 12 catches in college. IIRC we gave up two 3rds to move up and draft him. So if Scheffler's deal is a steal then Quinn's was thievery of Enron proportions!

It also brings up another interesting point. The most ardent McDaniels supporters are happy to see him shipping off the disgruntled and "troublemakers." Yet I see a double standard. I see a guy named Richard Quinn, who this team gave up much for, do absolutely nothing in his first year. OH WAIT! He was arrested before camp even began. Where is his ticket out of town? :confused: Are we shipping troublemakers out or just the ones that Shanahan drafted?

Just Shanny's :salute:

Its like if you have kids that make a mistake at age 16 or whatever. Do you kick them out of the house for being arrested or doing something stupid? Probably not. But if its not your kid and if its say a foreign exchange student :lol: Then you're more likely to ship him back to his country if he acts up and gets arrested or what not.

So McDaniels hasn't got rid of his guys yet but he sure has gotten rid of Shannys :salute:

Italianmobstr7
04-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Scheffler made the comment, yes. I can relate. I have gotten discouraged and
made noises about quitting before, too.

I'm not all that sure about his not making efforts to block. He was not initially
good at it. That's for sure. But it is my understanding that he was improving. But
they have blockers, good ones, in Graham and Quinn.

Shoot, Scheffler was capable even of splitting out wide. Shades of Vincent
Jackson.

I'm sure I'll get over it, especially if I see a good outcome from this. But for right
now, I'm having a hard time over it . . .

-----

I understand you're being upset, but the writing has been on the wall since Week 16 of last season. Anyone who had hopes of Scheffler and Marshall remaining Broncos after the way things went down before Week 17 probably was living in a dream world (Myself included). I really thought we'd be able to work something out with Marshall, but even I knew Scheffler was as good as gone. I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver draft another TE in the later rounds that sort of mimics what Scheffler does. We used him a lot in the San Diego game and he was a big part of that win. I don't think that Josh doesn't like Tony's skill set, I think he doesn't like Tony's attitude which is why he's no longer here.

silkamilkamonico
04-19-2010, 03:17 PM
For all the people who call it a "steal" of a deal, then you seriously have to reconsider everything McDaniels gave up to get Richard, don't call me Dick, Quinn. The same guy who had 12 catches in college. IIRC we gave up two 3rds to move up and draft him. So if Scheffler's deal is a steal then Quinn's was thievery of Enron proportions?



I don't know what's funnier. The fact that Denver obviously overvalued Scheffler considerably, or the fact that they had to actually throw in a 7th round pick to get rid of him.

Detroit Lions fans are all up in arms, because they lost Ernie Sims and got a backup TE in return, who probably won't play much at all in that offense as long as Pettigrew is healthy.

Philly fans have to be ecstatic for getting a talent like Sims for only a 5th rounder.

Lancane
04-19-2010, 03:18 PM
Just Shanny's :salute:

Its like if you have kids that make a mistake at age 16 or whatever. Do you kick them out of the house for being arrested or doing something stupid? Probably not. But if its not your kid and if its say a foreign exchange student :lol: Then you're more likely to ship him back to his country if he acts up and gets arrested or what not.

So McDaniels hasn't got rid of his guys yet but he sure has gotten rid of Shannys :salute:

So he'll keep his own self chosen distractions with no talent and rid himself of the adopted little shits with talent just because he did not want to adopt them?

Where is Angelina Jolie when you need her! :shocked:

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 03:20 PM
So he'll keep his own self chosen distractions with no talent and rid himself of the adopted little shits with talent just because he did not want to adopt them?

Where is Angelina Jolie when you need her! :shocked:

When a new coach comes in, usually they clean house a lot and get thier own players or players that they don't want. A big reason why everyone is so sad and complaining is because they were used to Shanny for a while. But McDaniels only has about 17 Shanahan players left on the roster until this team is 100 percent his. :salute:

Shanny came in to Washington and cleaned house as well and got players that he wanted. So we're gonna have to deal with it. :fight:

Lancane
04-19-2010, 03:23 PM
When a new coach comes in, usually they clean house a lot and get thier own players or players that they don't want. A big reason why everyone is so sad and complaining is because they were used to Shanny for a while. But McDaniels only has about 17 Shanahan players left on the roster until this team is 100 percent his. :salute:

Shanny came in to Washington and cleaned house as well and got players that he wanted. So we're gonna have to deal with it. :fight:

Really? He's supposedly keeping Hayesworth, he re-signed several players and even kept Portis. He added and is building around the talent that was there. Same as he did here in Denver...

Italianmobstr7
04-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Overall, this is pretty good compensation for Scheffler.

For all the people who call it a "steal" of a deal, then you seriously have to reconsider everything McDaniels gave up to get Richard, don't call me Dick, Quinn. The same guy who had 12 catches in college. IIRC we gave up two 3rds to move up and draft him. So if Scheffler's deal is a steal then Quinn's was thievery of Enron proportions!

It also brings up another interesting point. The most ardent McDaniels supporters are happy to see him shipping off the disgruntled and "troublemakers." Yet I see a double standard. I see a guy named Richard Quinn, who this team gave up much for, do absolutely nothing in his first year. OH WAIT! He was arrested before camp even began. Where is his ticket out of town? :confused: Are we shipping troublemakers out or just the ones that Shanahan drafted?

I don't think he's got a personal vendetta against Shanny's guys. I think he's got a problem with players who have an attitude problem. Quinn did get in trouble off the field, but it only happened 1 time. Marshall was in and out of trouble the entire time he was with us and we were going to have to sign him to a $50 million contract. 1 more mess up and Marshall was gone for 8 games to a year. Richard Quinn is pretty cheap considering he's a 2nd round pick and only in the 2nd year of his career. He hasn't been really productive for us, but he didn't play a lot either. I assume now that Scheffler is gone we'll see him used more, even if it is as just a blocker.

weazel
04-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Philly doesnt have a 5th round pick

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 03:25 PM
Really? He's supposedly keeping Hayesworth, he re-signed several players and even kept Portis. He added and is building around the talent that was there. Same as he did here in Denver...

He cut about 10 players or so within the 1st week that he was in DC. They were cutting players like crazy as well as adding new players. Sorta like McDaniels did when he came here and cut a bunch of players. However McDaniels has gone out on a limb by trading 2 pro bowlers in 2 years :lol: At least he has guts :elefant:

But players always like thier own players/coaches/system. I just hope that whatever McDaniels is doing, it works out. Hopefully he doesn't resign after all this :fight:

Lancane
04-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Philly doesnt have a 5th round pick

They had received one from Cleveland, it's the 137th overall, the sixth pick in the fifth round.

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Philly doesnt have a 5th round pick

I know, because they traded it to us. :coffee: :lol:

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 03:27 PM
Detroit Lions fans are all up in arms, because they lost Ernie Sims and got a backup TE in return, who probably won't play much at all in that offense as long as Pettigrew is healthy.



A big IF. Pettigrew tore his ACL badly in week 11 against GB. It appears he wont be ready. Even if he is, I am certain Detroit will run plenty of two TE sets. Scheffler will see the field a lot.

Detroit was robbed on the Sims side of the equation!

weazel
04-19-2010, 03:30 PM
They had received one from Cleveland, it's the 137th overall, the sixth pick in the fifth round.

I see that now... so they moved up 83 spots! works for me.

silkamilkamonico
04-19-2010, 03:51 PM
A big IF. Pettigrew tore his ACL badly in week 11 against GB. It appears he wont be ready. Even if he is, I am certain Detroit will run plenty of two TE sets. Scheffler will see the field a lot.

Detroit was robbed on the Sims side of the equation!

Detroit doesn't run an offense involving 2 TE's, it's a predominant 3 WR set that doesn't focus on a power scheme. Pettigrew is ahead of schedule and should be ready for TC. If Scheffler wants to see significant playing time in that offense, he better learn how to block now. There's a reason why Schwartz told Scheffler he didn't want to extend him.

Scheffler will come in and make some plays in special packages, but IMO he's nothing more than a Jeb Putzier/Mercedes Lewis type player in that offense.

topscribe
04-19-2010, 04:03 PM
I understand you're being upset, but the writing has been on the wall since Week 16 of last season. Anyone who had hopes of Scheffler and Marshall remaining Broncos after the way things went down before Week 17 probably was living in a dream world (Myself included). I really thought we'd be able to work something out with Marshall, but even I knew Scheffler was as good as gone. I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver draft another TE in the later rounds that sort of mimics what Scheffler does. We used him a lot in the San Diego game and he was a big part of that win. I don't think that Josh doesn't like Tony's skill set, I think he doesn't like Tony's attitude which is why he's no longer here.

I know. We're going only by what we know. I'm sure a lot more is going on
behind closed doors.

If he was a "cancer," as some suggest, then he had to go. Cancer is like that. If
one's eye is ravaged by cancer, that eye may have to go. There is no choice.
But that eye will still be missed . . .

-----

WARHORSE
04-19-2010, 04:06 PM
I see that now... so they moved up 83 spots! works for me.






Which is equal to a mid fourth rounder folks.



(in my book)



I'll take it.
:coffee:

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 04:10 PM
Face it - the Broncos could have got Payton Manning and the Colts #1 pick, and you would have found something to complain about :tsk:

They are lucky they got anything for Scheffler - they could have waited until training camp, and cut him, with nothing in return.

Don’t use your he's got to be a hater if he doesn’t agree with me, mentality with me

Had we gotten either of those two and I would be ecstatic
Had we kept him and used him to his full ability would be cool
Or trade him if we had a readily available replacement and got better value...fine also

dont you realize that most teams have in fact two Te’s...one as in graham.or monumalu a blocking TE who can catch a few
And a pass catching Te to spread the field and create mismatches on a linebacker...such as gates or TG...now im not saying TS is anywhere near thier level...but he could easily exploit mismatches

Tony did that very well...well he did it well with a good offensive plan and qb anyway

So now who's our pass catching TE??? Richard "I can’t crack the line up"Quinn...maybe Marquez "I’m just lucky to be on a team" Branson...does this mean we have to now draft

so because my head isnt clouded with the josh koolaid dont make me stupid...it doesnt make me a hater..it doesnt make me find fault with every single thing he does...only the things i fail to see strengthening the team

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 04:19 PM
Don’t use your he's got to be a hater if he doesn’t agree with me, mentality with me

Had we gotten either of those two and I would be ecstatic
Had we kept him and used him to his full ability would be cool
Or trade him if we had a readily available replacement and got better value...fine also

dont you realize that most teams have in fact two Te’s...one as in graham.or monumalu a blocking TE who can catch a few
And a pass catching Te to spread the field and create mismatches on a linebacker...such as gates or TG...now im not saying TS is anywhere near thier level...but he could easily exploit mismatches

Tony did that very well...well he did it well with a good offensive plan and qb anyway

So now who's our pass catching TE??? Richard "I can’t crack the line up"Quinn...maybe Marquez "I’m just lucky to be on a team" Branson...does this mean we have to now draft

so because my head isnt clouded with the josh koolaid dont make me stupid...it doesnt make me a hater..it doesnt make me find fault with every single thing he does...only the things i fail to see strengthening the team

Scheffler had only 2 more catches than Graham last season, and he still hasn't learned how to even spell "block", nevermind learning to actually do it. Complaining about this trade is just silly. The team got rid of a crybaby backup TE and got some value for him in a year when teams aren't getting value for players in general.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 04:20 PM
To put Scheffler in even the same paragraph as those guys, nonetheless he same sentence, is just retarded.


who said he was?...the point everyone keeps making is tony wasnt a great blocker...guess what ....most teams have one Te that main duty is to catch passes , create missmatches...beat a LBr one on one..like a TG...gates

never said tony was the same as those guys did i...any one who reads that into it is retarded

i mean most people are putting to much emphesis on him blocking...he wasnt a blocker in college...he wasnt drafted to block...he was drafted to catch balls lined up against a lbr... he did that very well

Ziggy
04-19-2010, 04:20 PM
Don’t use your he's got to be a hater if he doesn’t agree with me, mentality with me

Had we gotten either of those two and I would be ecstatic
Had we kept him and used him to his full ability would be cool
Or trade him if we had a readily available replacement and got better value...fine also

dont you realize that most teams have in fact two Te’s...one as in graham.or monumalu a blocking TE who can catch a few
And a pass catching Te to spread the field and create mismatches on a linebacker...such as gates or TG...now im not saying TS is anywhere near thier level...but he could easily exploit mismatches

Tony did that very well...well he did it well with a good offensive plan and qb anyway

So now who's our pass catching TE??? Richard "I can’t crack the line up"Quinn...maybe Marquez "I’m just lucky to be on a team" Branson...does this mean we have to now draft

so because my head isnt clouded with the josh koolaid dont make me stupid...it doesnt make me a hater..it doesnt make me find fault with every single thing he does...only the things i fail to see strengthening the team

Arapaho, your posts are hard enough to read in white. You might want to stay away from the black.

Broncolingus
04-19-2010, 04:25 PM
At this point with that idiot - (s)Chef - I'm fine with what we got...which was something.

Besides, Denver seems to have luck with late round picks...

...and to you, Tony...

http://www.icanhasmotivation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cpgtfo.jpg

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Scheffler had 2 more catches than Graham last season, and still hasn't learned how to even spell "block", nevermind learning to actually do it.


is he suppose to catch them from the bench?

but you actually highlight a important issue...tony could beat any lbr one on one..any of them..and was much bigger than most if not all safetys ...and so for our pass catching TE to have

tony had 2 more receptions than grahm...grahm was also in for 401 more offensive snaps...whoopie

but since you wanna compare
graham

957 snaps....thrown at..36times..rec..28...289 yards...10.3 ypr..5 dropped passes

shceffler....556 snaps played...TA 46 times...31rec..416 yards...13.4 ypr..2 dropped passes

but is tony sucked so bad...so friggan bad...why didnt quinn beat him out...did quinn even get to put on a game jersey?

Italianmobstr7
04-19-2010, 04:37 PM
I know. We're going only by what we know. I'm sure a lot more is going on
behind closed doors.

If he was a "cancer," as some suggest, then he had to go. Cancer is like that. If
one's eye is ravaged by cancer, that eye may have to go. There is no choice.
But that eye will still be missed . . .

-----

Or it could be more like skin cancer... Where you remove the bad skin, replace it with skin that doesn't have cancer.... That's what we're doing IMO.

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 04:38 PM
is he suppose to catch them from the bench?

but you actually highlight a important issue...tony could beat any lbr one on one..any of them..and was much bigger than most if not all safetys ...and so for our pass catching TE to have

tony had 2 more receptions than grahm...grahm was also in for 401 more offensive snaps...whoopie

If Scheffler had bothered to grow a set and do that 'blocking' thing, he'd have gotten more snaps.


but since you wanna compare
graham

957 snaps....thrown at..36times..rec..28...289 yards...10.3 ypr..5 dropped passes

shceffler....556 snaps played...TA 46 times...31rec..416 yards...13.4 ypr..2 dropped passes

but is tony sucked so bad...so friggan bad...why didnt quinn beat him out...did quinn even get to put on a game jersey?

Quinn was a rookie. Scheffler was a tight end who's allergic to contact but not allergic to mouthing off in the locker room. That kind of player doesn't survive under Parcells/Belichick tree regimes.

2 more receptions than Graham and allergic to blocking. It should be telling, even to the bashers such as yourself, that there was nothing better than a pick swap available for him.

Mr D
04-19-2010, 04:40 PM
Anytime you're talking about your impatience of the season ending in the mist of the team fighting for a playoff spot ... I'm not sure there are many organizations that would want to invest in you.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 04:40 PM
Relax man. We got Richard Quinn. Hes primed and ready for a breakout year. :elefant: :lol:


which one of his zero receptions gives you such confindence

BroncoWave
04-19-2010, 04:41 PM
who said he was?...the point everyone keeps making is tony wasnt a great blocker...guess what ....most teams have one Te that main duty is to catch passes , create missmatches...beat a LBr one on one..like a TG...gates

never said tony was the same as those guys did i...any one who reads that into it is retarded

i mean most people are putting to much emphesis on him blocking...he wasnt a blocker in college...he wasnt drafted to block...he was drafted to catch balls lined up against a lbr... he did that very well

The difference is that Gonzo and Gates are such great pass catchers that is makes up for their deficiencies in blocking.

If that were true for Scheffler then maybe you'd have a point. :coffee:

Slick
04-19-2010, 04:42 PM
Some of us seem to be forgetting that these traded players didn't want to be here. Much better to get something of value as opposed to straight up cutting someone. Personally, I don't think it's going to be all that hard to replace a guy like Tony Sheffler. I'll sleep well tonight.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 04:54 PM
If Scheffler had bothered to grow a set and do that 'blocking' thing, he'd have gotten more snaps.



Quinn was a rookie. Scheffler was a tight end who's allergic to contact but not allergic to mouthing off in the locker room. That kind of player doesn't survive under Parcells/Belichick tree regimes.

2 more receptions than Graham and allergic to blocking. It should be telling, even to the bashers such as yourself, that there was nothing better than a pick swap available for him.


wrong...do you even watch football...scheffler was never afraid of contact..he took some huge hits in his time here across the middle

so i assume you have video proof of schefflers inability to block..or him scared to block, or him being ..what allergic to it...i mean unless your just smacking your gums you should have some sort of proof to back it up

doubt it though...just talking out the wrong hole i assume

so quinn is excempt...cause he was a rookie...let me get this straight

tony was a head case, locker room cancer..scared to block even if he could..totaly non useful

yet the guy that costed us 2 3rd round picks couldnt even beat him out, failed to crack the lineup, and showed nothing for our pick except a arrest report...is better

FYI i know quinn being a rokie is your excuse...but scheff had 286 yards...22.ypr and 4 tds in his rookie season

BroncoBJ
04-19-2010, 04:55 PM
which one of his zero receptions gives you such confindence

Which part of that post did you not realize I was being sarcastic? Was it the elefant? or the laughing icon? :confused:

Bosco
04-19-2010, 04:58 PM
yeah cause the nfl has no need for pass catching TEs with limted blocking...like tony gonzalos, gates
:confused:

Tony Gonzalez is one of the greatest tight ends in NFL history. Atlanta spent a 2nd round pick to get him. How much value do you think Scheffler had?


I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

That's not quite correct though. The fact is Tony Scheffler did fit the offense. Ben Watson is basically the same exact player as Scheffler and McDaniels got good use out of him when he was healthy. The only difference between the two is that Watson isn't a liability as a blocker and thus can see the field more often.


It also brings up another interesting point. The most ardent McDaniels supporters are happy to see him shipping off the disgruntled and "troublemakers." Yet I see a double standard. I see a guy named Richard Quinn, who this team gave up much for You can't really make that claim. They got decent value on that trade while being in position to grab someone they really liked. It's also been told on here repeatedly that he would NOT have lasted until our pick in the 3rd round.


do absolutely nothing in his first year. He was the 3rd tight end. How often do those guys get meaningful playing time.


OH WAIT! He was arrested before camp even began. Where is his ticket out of town? :confused: Are we shipping troublemakers out or just the ones that Shanahan drafted? The charges were also quickly thrown out and this is the ONLY off field issue Quinn has ever had as far as I can see.

Ziggy
04-19-2010, 05:01 PM
For the record, by the trade chart the Broncos got the equivalent value of the 18th pick in the 5th round for Scheffler.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:03 PM
The difference is that Gonzo and Gates are such great pass catchers that is makes up for their deficiencies in blocking.

If that were true for Scheffler then maybe you'd have a point. :coffee:


again tony didnt lack the skillset to be a effective pass catcher...
and as i said he isnt the same level as those two...but he coulda been very good if used right

TG was thrown at 125 times...gates 110 times...TS..46 times

whats weird is TS graded better in pass blocking and run blocking then did graham

Bosco
04-19-2010, 05:04 PM
wrong...do you even watch football...scheffler was never afraid of contact..he took some huge hits in his time here across the middle

so i assume you have video proof of schefflers inability to block..or him scared to block, or him being ..what allergic to it...i mean unless your just smacking your gums you should have some sort of proof to back it up

doubt it though...just talking out the wrong hole i assume I saw it. Sportswriters saw it and commented on it. Two different coaching staffs saw it.

You'd see it if you'd look.


FYI i know quinn being a rokie is your excuse...but scheff had 286 yards...22.ypr and 4 tds in his rookie season He was also competing for time with an old broken down Stephen Alexander. Quinn had Graham and Scheffler ahead of him on the depth chart.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:04 PM
Which part of that post did you not realize I was being sarcastic? Was it the elefant? or the laughing icon? :confused:

duuur i thought you was estatic:listen:

weazel
04-19-2010, 05:05 PM
who said he was?...the point everyone keeps making is tony wasnt a great blocker...guess what ....most teams have one Te that main duty is to catch passes , create missmatches...beat a LBr one on one..like a TG...gates

never said tony was the same as those guys did i...any one who reads that into it is retarded

i mean most people are putting to much emphesis on him blocking...he wasnt a blocker in college...he wasnt drafted to block...he was drafted to catch balls lined up against a lbr... he did that very well

except in the red zone, where a pass catching TE is expected to make the catches...

They moved up 83 spots for a TE that didn't want to play for them anymore... your hate is strong.

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 05:07 PM
Don’t use your he's got to be a hater if he doesn’t agree with me, mentality with me

Had we gotten either of those two and I would be ecstatic
Had we kept him and used him to his full ability would be cool
Or trade him if we had a readily available replacement and got better value...fine also

dont you realize that most teams have in fact two Te’s...one as in graham.or monumalu a blocking TE who can catch a few
And a pass catching Te to spread the field and create mismatches on a linebacker...such as gates or TG...now im not saying TS is anywhere near thier level...but he could easily exploit mismatches

Tony did that very well...well he did it well with a good offensive plan and qb anyway

So now who's our pass catching TE??? Richard "I can’t crack the line up"Quinn...maybe Marquez "I’m just lucky to be on a team" Branson...does this mean we have to now draft

so because my head isnt clouded with the josh koolaid dont make me stupid...it doesnt make me a hater..it doesnt make me find fault with every single thing he does...only the things i fail to see strengthening the team


Time to catch up with which team we are .

Like it or not we use our TE's to block and occasionally catch a pass.

We have two blocking TE's and both can catch the ball if they have to.

TS can't block and frankly not sure he ever wanted to, blocking is a mental thing you either have the desire to do so or you do not. For the longest time SS did not like blocking either thought he would be OK without doing so then MIKE gave him the word learn to block or sit. now have you got it since we have no need for a NON BLOCKING TE he is worthless as teats on a BOAR (male pig).

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:07 PM
I saw it. Sportswriters saw it and commented on it. Two different coaching staffs saw it.

You'd see it if you'd look.

He was also competing for time with an old broken down Stephen Alexander. Quinn had Graham and Scheffler ahead of him on the depth chart.


really...while not the best in the game...TS ranked better than didn grahm in blocking

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

you might wanna revisit the game tapes

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 05:09 PM
who said he was?...the point everyone keeps making is tony wasnt a great blocker...guess what ....most teams have one Te that main duty is to catch passes , create missmatches...beat a LBr one on one..like a TG...gates

never said tony was the same as those guys did i...any one who reads that into it is retarded

i mean most people are putting to much emphesis on him blocking...he wasnt a blocker in college...he wasnt drafted to block...he was drafted to catch balls lined up against a lbr... he did that very well

In a completely different OFFENSE. You learn to adapt or be passed on. he was passed to another team.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:11 PM
Time to catch up with which team we are .

Like it or not we use our TE's to block and occasionally catch a pass.

We have two blocking TE's and both can catch the ball if they have to.

TS can't block and frankly not sure he ever wanted to, blocking is a mental thing you either have the desire to do so or you do not. For the longest time SS did not like blocking either thought he would be OK without doing so then MIKE gave him the word learn to block or sit. now have you got it since we have no need for a NON BLOCKING TE he is worthless as teats on a BOAR (male pig).
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

your opinion holds no water...these guys does

see the + 1.1 in pass blocking from tony...then scroll down and see the negative 2.0 from grahm???

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:11 PM
In a completely different OFFENSE. You learn to adapt or be passed on. he was passed to another team.

i guess royal should simply move on then huh?

slim
04-19-2010, 05:11 PM
really...while not the best in the game...TS ranked better than didn grahm in blocking

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

you might wanna revisit the game tapes

If you think Tony is a better blocker than Graham, you have zero credibility.

Also, "blocking stats" are about as useful as a well hung donkey.

claymore
04-19-2010, 05:14 PM
If you think Tony is a better blocker than Graham, you have zero credibility.

Also, "blocking stats" are about as useful as a well hung donkey.

So they are the most improtant stats in the world. :eek:

Buff
04-19-2010, 05:14 PM
If you think Tony is a better blocker than Graham, you have zero credibility.

Also, "blocking stats" are about as useful as a well hung donkey.

Give Clay a well hung donkey and he will turn that SOB into a money maker.

claymore
04-19-2010, 05:16 PM
Donkey's have nipples to guys.

weazel
04-19-2010, 05:16 PM
i guess royal should simply move on then huh?

what does that have to do wit Scheffler?

...that's called deflecting.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:16 PM
except in the red zone, where a pass catching TE is expected to make the catches...

They moved up 83 spots for a TE that didn't want to play for them anymore... your hate is strong.


yeah his 12 rz tds from his 19 redzone recptions really shows how ineffective the dude was:rolleyes:

weazel
04-19-2010, 05:19 PM
yeah his 12 rz tds from his 19 redzone recptions really shows how ineffective the dude was:rolleyes:

that say's nothing about how many he dropped. The guy dropped alot of passes man, you know it, others know it. Why act like it didnt happen?

You are going to piss and moan about every single move made, it doesnt matter what happens. Quite entertaining, really.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:19 PM
what does that have to do wit Scheffler?

...that's called deflecting.

because jr said tony was ineffective and in a new offense you either adapt or move on...my point if your still troubled

is royal seemed to have even more trouble adapting to the new offense

so should he move on?

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:23 PM
If you think Tony is a better blocker than Graham, you have zero credibility.

Also, "blocking stats" are about as useful as a well hung donkey.


did i say he was better???..nope just showed a respected site that surprisenly had tony ranked a better run and pass blocker than danial


dont get butt hurt about it


anyway....if pass blocking stats dont mean shit.....why all the hate saying tony couldnt block worth a shit...it doesnt matter right?

oh wait i see...to justify mcds moves...his fantasy land bad blocking was the main reason...but when showed stats to the contrary than blocking dont mean shit....ok got it

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 05:24 PM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

your opinion holds no water...these guys does

see the + 1.1 in pass blocking from tony...then scroll down and see the negative 2.0 from grahm???

You really do not get it do you?

Do you think that the coaches do not see what he does or does not do more that the stat counters at some ambiguous web site.

IF you do not do what eh coaches want you to they sit, cut and trade you.

Get a grip on life please. IF you do not like Josh fine by me, but remember he does not have to PLEASE YOU. The only folks he worries about doing so is his wife and Pat not necessarily in the order. He could give rats rectum about your posts.



i guess royal should simply move on then huh?

When did Fast Eddie become a TE?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 05:24 PM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

your opinion holds no water...these guys does

see the + 1.1 in pass blocking from tony...then scroll down and see the negative 2.0 from grahm???

Wait.... are you seriously trying to pimp PFF for its ratings? It may be the worst site in the history of the internet when it comes to that stuff.

PFF is useful for the raw data. The mistakes there are fairly limited. When it comes to the formulas, on the other hand, the site's a joke. For crying out loud, the very ratings you're looking at has Chris Baker significantly higher than Ben Watson. That should have been a clue the size of Jupiter.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:27 PM
that say's nothing about how many he dropped. The guy dropped alot of passes man, you know it, others know it. Why act like it didnt happen?

You are going to piss and moan about every single move made, it doesnt matter what happens. Quite entertaining, really.


from 2007 to 2009 ..three season..tony dropped 9 passes...wow he sucks so bad...gates dropped 16 for the record..danial graham 11

sanluis
04-19-2010, 05:30 PM
Not really - no team was turning flips to get him

He always played well against my Chargers. So I am glad to see him get the heck out of the division.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:30 PM
You really do not get it do you?

Do you think that the coaches do not see what he does or does not do more that the stat counters at some ambiguous web site.

IF you do not do what eh coaches want you to they sit, cut and trade you.

Get a grip on life please. IF you do not like Josh fine by me, but remember he does not have to PLEASE YOU. The only folks he worries about doing so is his wife and Pat not necessarily in the order. He could give rats rectum about your foaming at the mouth posts.




When did Fast Eddie become a TE?

where did i say he was???:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh:

you said players either adapt in a new system or move on...i simply made the point then royal should move on cause he didnt quite adapt to the new system either...

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:32 PM
Wait.... are you seriously trying to pimp PFF for its ratings? It may be the worst site in the history of the internet when it comes to that stuff.

PFF is useful for the raw data. The mistakes there are fairly limited. When it comes to the formulas, on the other hand, the site's a joke. For crying out loud, the very ratings you're looking at has Chris Baker significantly higher than Ben Watson. That should have been a clue the size of Jupiter.


i showed stats to counter the idea that tony was this immenslly ineffective blocker, scared to try and a waste of space

i guess your gonna have to show me some that prove your point

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 05:37 PM
where did i say he was???:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh:

you said players either adapt in a new system or move on...i simply made the point then royal should move on cause he didnt quite adapt to the new system either...
so Eddie adapts this year once we have a LOS presence . allowing the QB to read past his primary receiver, one the other WR have a chance to make more than a cut.

Fast eddie will flourish in this spread offense something NON BLOCKING TE's will never do.

I will believe my coaches about his attitude, ability to make plays and locker room presence over a STAT site . that has NO idea what play was called and how he ran his route, or made the block the way they wanted it done.

I trust the coach you hate the coach, that much is plain for all to see. Therfore we will have to agree to disagree.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 05:39 PM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

your opinion holds no water...these guys does

see the + 1.1 in pass blocking from tony...then scroll down and see the negative 2.0 from grahm???

What is this site and who are they? What qualifications do they have to be passing out these grades? I've never even heard of these guys and looking at their webpage it appears to just be a bunch of everyday fans. Hell, they even admit they have nothing but TV broadcasts to go on.

These guys aren't any different than you or me and I bet most of the top notch posters on this and a couple other football forums could easily take them to task on analysis.

Anyways, if these numbers are true, then why were several teams falling all over themselves to give Graham a huge contract? Why was he well known as an elite blocking tight end? Why have two different coaching staffs started him over Scheffler? New England did the same thing when Graham was there.

Try again dude. Metrics are by and large worthless in the NFL. KC Joyner is the only one who's put together a halfway reliable system and even that is highly suspect.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 05:41 PM
i showed stats to counter the idea that tony was this immenslly ineffective blocker, scared to try and a waste of space

i guess your gonna have to show me some that prove your point

No, you didn't show stats. You showed a rating system from a 3rd party that apparently is not held in high regard to which I easily disproved with common sense and facts.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:43 PM
What is this site and who are they? What qualifications do they have to be passing out these grades? I've never even heard of these guys and looking at their webpage it appears to just be a bunch of everyday fans. Hell, they even admit they have nothing but TV broadcasts to go on.

These guys aren't any different than you or me and I bet most of the top notch posters on this and a couple other football forums could easily take them to task on analysis.

Anyways, if these numbers are true, then why were several teams falling all over themselves to give Graham a huge contract? Why was he well known as an elite blocking tight end? Why have two different coaching staffs started him over Scheffler? New England did the same thing when Graham was there.

Try again dude. Metrics are by and large worthless in the NFL. KC Joyner is the only one who's put together a halfway reliable system and even that is highly suspect.


it could be a number of things from his constant penelties...2nd overall in number of penelties but 9th in snaps taken

my view isnt to say graham is a bad blocker, he isnt...thats where the ignorance is blinding some...im saying tony wasnt that bad of a blocker ..not nearly as bad as some make him out to be

slim
04-19-2010, 05:43 PM
did i say he was better???..nope just showed a respected site that surprisenly had tony ranked a better run and pass blocker than danial


dont get butt hurt about it


anyway....if pass blocking stats dont mean shit.....why all the hate saying tony couldnt block worth a shit...it doesnt matter right?

oh wait i see...to justify mcds moves...his fantasy land bad blocking was the main reason...but when showed stats to the contrary than blocking dont mean shit....ok got it

Have you met clay's donkey?

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 05:44 PM
BTW we now have Gates and TG's old TE coach does anyone think he may have "helped" in this decision to dump this moron?

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:47 PM
BTW we now have Gates and TG's old TE coach does anyone think he may have "helped" in this decision to dump this moron?


not if gates and Tg played for pittsburg

Bob Ligashesky

Tight Ends

http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Staff Photos/2010/bob_ligashesky_mug10.jpg
Bob Ligashesky enters his first year coaching tight ends for the Denver Broncos in 2010. He was hired by the club on Jan. 23 after spending the previous six years coaching special teams in the NFL with Pittsburgh (2007-09), St. Louis (2005-06) and Jacksonville (2004).












the coach from sandiego left last season

Lonestar
04-19-2010, 05:52 PM
not if gates and Tg played for pittsburg

Bob Ligashesky

Tight Ends

http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Staff Photos/2010/bob_ligashesky_mug10.jpg
Bob Ligashesky enters his first year coaching tight ends for the Denver Broncos in 2010. He was hired by the club on Jan. 23 after spending the previous six years coaching special teams in the NFL with Pittsburgh (2007-09), St. Louis (2005-06) and Jacksonville (2004).












the coach from sandiego left last season

OK LAST year he was the TE coach . What does that tell you about what the coach thought of him? Are you really this dense?

broncobryce
04-19-2010, 05:54 PM
What, no bag of balls?
By MIKE KLIS

About a month ago, I talked to a Broncos player about the certainty that was the team trading Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler.

The player said Marshall was going to put some stess on the club because Marshall is one of the league’s top 10 players and they had to get something close to a first-round pick in return for him. The Broncos eventually got two, second-round picks. Even if next year’s second-rounder has a present-day value of a third-round pick, that’s a present-day package of second and third-round picks _ or the equivalent of a first-round pick in the 20s overall. Pretty good.

But Scheffler, the Broncos player said, was another matter. The player felt Josh McDaniels was so finished with Scheffler that the Broncos would release him if they couldn’t get anything back in a trade.

Apparently, NFL teams figured as much. So while a fifth round pick in return for Scheffler and a seventh round pick (which when converted to straight-up terms means the Broncos essentially got an early sixth-round pick for the tight end) doesn’t sound like much, compensation could have been worse.

The player who said that? Richard Quinn. ;)

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 05:58 PM
so Eddie adapts this year once we have a LOS presence . allowing the QB to read past his primary receiver, one the other WR have a chance to make more than a cut.

Fast eddie will flourish in this spread offense something NON BLOCKING TE's will never do.

I will believe my coaches about his attitude, ability to make plays and locker room presence over a STAT site . that has NO idea what play was called and how he ran his route, or made the block the way they wanted it done.

I trust the coach you hate the coach, that much is plain for all to see. Therfore we will have to agree to disagree.

weird how royal ..'flourished as a rookie with that same oline"

oh thats right he had a better qb...my bad...forgot about the limiting effectivness of orton

Bosco
04-19-2010, 06:00 PM
it could be a number of things from his constant penelties...2nd overall in number of penelties but 9th in snaps taken Penalties don't have anything to do with blocking performance. If that site is taking that into effect than that is all I need to know about how worthless their rankings are.


my view isnt to say graham is a bad blocker, he isnt I'd sure hope not. He's an elite blocking tight end and one of the most complete players at his position.


im saying tony wasnt that bad of a blocker ..not nearly as bad as some make him out to be He was a liability as a blocker. Was he Ben Hamilton "I look like I'm on rollerskates" level of liability? No, but a big enough liability that two different coaching staffs preferred to leave him on the bench on running downs and the first coaching staff paid huge money to acquire Graham the year after they spent a 2nd on Scheffler.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 06:04 PM
OK LAST year he was the TE coach . What does that tell you about what the coach thought of him? Are you really this dense?


clarence barone is the oline coach now...and i doubt he had a thing to do with it

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 06:07 PM
i showed stats to counter the idea that tony was this immenslly ineffective blocker, scared to try and a waste of space

i guess your gonna have to show me some that prove your point

No, you showed a lousy site's horrible analysis. It's crap. As for my point, I've no need to "prove it". It's already something well known.

You want "prove it" about Scheffler's blocking, yet you don't bother with "prove it" when it comes to pummeling McDaniels over every move. Sorry, I don't play that sort of game.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 06:09 PM
not if gates and Tg played for pittsburg

Clancy Barone was the TE coach last year, and he did work with Gates. He is now coaching our O-lines (he's coached both throughout his career) and Ligashesky was brought up to the TE coach position.


weird how royal ..'flourished as a rookie with that same oline" Ben Hamilton didn't suck so bad that he got benched that year either. Wiegmann would have probably suffered the same fate had Hochstein not been moved over to replace Hamilton.


oh thats right he had a better qb...my bad...forgot about the limiting effectivness of orton Royal's troubles in 2009 had jack shit to do with Orton.

honz
04-19-2010, 06:12 PM
Can't say I'm thrilled with what we got, but if that's what his value was at right now, then that's all you can do. He clearly wasn't apart of the long term plans and he didn't exactly endear himself to me by saying he couldn't wait until the season was over last year when the playoffs were still a possibility.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 06:13 PM
Penalties don't have anything to do with blocking performance. If that site is taking that into effect than that is all I need to know about how worthless their rankings are.

I'd sure hope not. He's an elite blocking tight end and one of the most complete players at his position.

He was a liability as a blocker. Was he Ben Hamilton "I look like I'm on rollerskates" level of liability? No, but a big enough liability that two different coaching staffs preferred to leave him on the bench on running downs and the first coaching staff paid huge money to acquire Graham the year after they spent a 2nd on Scheffler.


who knows...its a very good site...i just said i dont know why...maybe grahm just isnt very good any more?:eek:...i do know you can read how they rank em..it might shed some light foryou

and again the purpose of a pass catching TE is to stretch the field...throw an occassional block..but the reason people have players in the pass catching TE slot is to ...CREATE MISMATCH NIGHTMARES FOR THE OPPOSING DEFENSE...that was tonys role, just as its gates or any other Te in that situation..danials role is blocking with an occasional rec...tonys role was pass catching with an occassional block

i find it weird how people cannot seperate the differences

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
04-19-2010, 06:14 PM
Hell YEAH! GET THE HELL OUT!

claymore
04-19-2010, 06:15 PM
arapaho2,

You are a breath of fresh air around here. I salute you.

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 06:18 PM
Clancy Barone was the TE coach last year, and he did work with Gates. He is now coaching our O-lines (he's coached both throughout his career) and Ligashesky was brought up to the TE coach position.

Ben Hamilton didn't suck so bad that he got benched that year either. Wiegmann would have probably suffered the same fate had Hochstein not been moved over to replace Hamilton.

Royal's troubles in 2009 had jack shit to do with Orton.


tell me something i dont know...i already told him barone is the line coach now

again its weird how one of the best pass blocking olines in the game...suddenlycant play worth a shit, cant pass block, cant run block

but its all simply a matter of the players suck...and has nothing at all to do with a change in run blocking and a new offensive scheme run by a fall down at the slightest touch cant run worth a shit qb

royals troubles have everything to do with mr kyle " look one way then throw it away" orton

arapaho2
04-19-2010, 06:23 PM
Penalties don't have anything to do with blocking performance. If that site is taking that into effect than that is all I need to know about how worthless their rankings are.

.

by the way...penelties have alot to do with effective blocking

a hold can turn a 3rd and 4 to a 3rd and 14.....but hey if you feel that has zero to do with effective blocking:confused:

topscribe
04-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Royal's troubles in 2009 had jack shit to do with Orton.

True, but Orton really stunk in defending the run . . .

-----

claymore
04-19-2010, 06:25 PM
True, but Orton really stunk in defending the run . . .

-----

He could tacklehimself with those glass ankles.

Lancane
04-19-2010, 06:26 PM
Who really gives a damn...

Come on, McDaniels has gotten his wish...the franchise rests on his shoulders and his shoulders alone. He's literally rid himself of those who were problematic to his rule during his tenure. All the players that overshadowed him and were fan favorites offensively are gone: Hillis, Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler. Now it's his team, whether he succeeds or not will be on mostly his players and his decisions. I'm starting to believe he was trying to clean house so that his career was not based on the players Shanahan had brought in, like Shanahan had when he came to Denver.

We will see if he's smart or ignorant come the draft, his career is forever linked with the choices he's made, and what he can do from this point on.

As to the Scheffler trade, it was not that bad in value, I might not think much of McDaniels or Xanders but the trade is a high fifth round pick, so anyone that they are targeting in the fourth could slip right into their hands. I was higher on Marshall and Cutler, not so much on Hillis or Scheffler...but it's done. What he does from this point on is what's important...

dogfish
04-19-2010, 06:26 PM
I like Coach McDaniels, Carol. I think I've made that obvious.

But I am NOT happy over the Scheffler deal. We had one of the best receiving TEs
in football sitting on the bench much of the season. The guy created defensive
nightmares with the matchup problems he created.

Instead of jettisoning a guy like him because he "doesn't fit" the system, why
not tailor the system to take advantage of his strengths . . . especially with the
tough times the offense went through at times last year?

The issue over "deep threat" has become so common on the board that it is
almost a buzzword. Scheffler was a serious threat deep down the middle.

No, I'm doing my best to support this regime. I am giving the the benefit of the
doubt in what they are doing, realizing they know much more about football than
I do. But I cannot help myself on pining over what went with Marshall and
Scheffler when they left.

All this time, I have strongly and persistently advocated for building the lines,
almost to the point of ignoring the skill positions. But what is left now to ignore?
I have hopes for Royal and Gaffney . . . high hopes. But they are only hopes at
this point. In fact, they are almost worries.

I don't know. This is crazy . . . :tsk:

-----

welp, that's it top-- time to turn in your fan card!

if you can't support the current regime a little more vigorously than that, this fanbase has no more need of your services. . . .

topscribe
04-19-2010, 06:27 PM
welp, that's it top-- time to turn in your fan card!

if you can't support the current regime a little more vigorously than that, this fanbase has no more need of your services. . . .

:Cry:

-----

Broncolingus
04-19-2010, 06:32 PM
Some of us seem to be forgetting that these traded players didn't want to be here. Much better to get something of value as opposed to straight up cutting someone. Personally, I don't think it's going to be all that hard to replace a guy like Tony Sheffler. I'll sleep well tonight.

GP, Slick...:salute:

First sentence pretty much sums up most everything...

If a player says, '...the Bronco's (or any team for that matter) aren't the place for me,' fine...

Good luck elsewhere, dude...

I DO, however, have a problem with ANY friggin player saying, "...I can't wait for the season to be over, " in the middle of a GD playoff race.

...that's bullshit.

dogfish
04-19-2010, 06:32 PM
:Cry:

-----

****. . . . :wave:


and take your me-first attitude with you!

WARHORSE
04-19-2010, 06:32 PM
I'll take the pick all day.


Scheffler was doing exactly W-H-A-T for us?


Nothing.

One would think that his receiving skills would have been put to good use in the screen game vs Daniel Graham..........NOT.


He COULDNT unseat Graham, therefore he rides shotgun.

Shotgun players with value dont usually hang around.


Ask Ernie Simms, Seattle guard Sims, and one Donovan McNabb.

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 06:34 PM
I DO, however, have a problem with ANY friggin player saying, "...I can't wait for the season to be over, " in the middle of a GD playoff race.

...that's bullshit.

Equally as bad is the coach taking the low road and acting like the players and benching them on Thursday. :tsk:

Players are players. They are going to do stupid shit. Coaches should be able to address that and take the high road at the same time.

Broncolingus
04-19-2010, 06:39 PM
Equally as bad is the coach taking the low road and acting like the players and benching them on Thursday. :tsk:

Players are players. They are going to do stupid shit. Coaches should be able to address that and take the high road at the same time.

...threads not about McDaniels, Orton, Xanders, Bowlen, Bailey, Clady, or anyone else but (s)Chef.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8zNMC9c1IcI/SJ-et57Y7BI/AAAAAAAAAX8/zWhmw8QIuKE/s400/chef.png

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 06:40 PM
Equally as bad is the coach taking the low road and acting like the players and benching them on Thursday. :tsk:

Players are players. They are going to do stupid shit. Coaches should be able to address that and take the high road at the same time.

Where's the humor smiley after your post?

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 06:40 PM
Chocolate Salty balls!

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 06:47 PM
Where's the humor smiley after your post?

Nothing humorous about a 32 year old coach acting worse than the 25 year old player

slim
04-19-2010, 06:57 PM
Equally as bad is the coach taking the low road and acting like the players and benching them on Thursday. :tsk:

Players are players. They are going to do stupid shit. Coaches should be able to address that and take the high road at the same time.

Good point.

Letting a disruptive subordinate walk all over you is the sign of a true leader.

In fact, I can’t imagine a coach disciplining a player for being disruptive to the team.

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 07:02 PM
Nothing humorous about a 32 year old coach acting worse than the 25 year old player

But your response had to be a joke. You don't really think coaches are wrong to bench players who are undermining them in the locker room or being team disruptions, I'm sure. I mean, it's done all the time, and at all levels of sports. Belichick's done it, Reid has done it, etc....

BroncoAV06
04-19-2010, 07:14 PM
But your response had to be a joke. You don't really think coaches are wrong to bench players who are undermining them in the locker room or being team disruptions, I'm sure. I mean, it's done all the time, and at all levels of sports. Belichick's done it, Reid has done it, etc....

I am going to assume his point was more to the fact of will Josh work things out with players in the future or just ship them right out. Sceff/Marsh gone ok, but what happens next time when a player gets frustrated and speaks out? McD should talk to them and show who the coach is but is that going to mean a ticket out of town?

Your not going to field a 53 player roster of "rudys".

Northman
04-19-2010, 07:15 PM
Good point.

Letting a disruptive subordinate walk all over you is the sign of a true leader.

In fact, I can’t imagine a coach disciplining a player for being disruptive to the team.

I was going to say, at what point does a coach show discipline? :lol:

LordTrychon
04-19-2010, 07:19 PM
...threads not about McDaniels, Orton, Xanders, Bowlen, Bailey, Clady, or anyone else but (s)Chef.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8zNMC9c1IcI/SJ-et57Y7BI/AAAAAAAAAX8/zWhmw8QIuKE/s400/chef.png

Yeah... damn that Scheffler for trading himself without the knowledge or consent of the FO or Staff at all.

nevcraw
04-19-2010, 07:26 PM
the bad seeds are vanquised..
everyone knows who's systems are in place..
everyone knows who's running the show..
plenty of time to prepare..
Opportunities fo Excuses are going fast..
Better get it right..

But if not, no worries - there are atleast 10 smoochers on this forum who will still hold on firmly to your jock!
:salute:
:lol:

Northman
04-19-2010, 07:34 PM
No doubt its a put up or shut up year for McD. There will be no excuses after this year one way or the other. But, if he does well will the haters give him credit?

Ravage!!!
04-19-2010, 07:36 PM
I love the "he quit the team" comments (bull crap)

and the "they didn't want to be here" (really, before McD got here?)

and the "last of the cancer" (:lol: )

and my favorite...the "what did they do for us?" Yeah, not getting us to the next level, in those 2 seasons they were together is HORRENDOUS!! Brilliant thinking. Nothing like completely ignoring that you have to have a nucleus before you can build AROUND the nucleus.

Chip.. chip.. chip away

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 07:37 PM
I am going to assume his point was more to the fact of will Josh work things out with players in the future or just ship them right out. Sceff/Marsh gone ok, but what happens next time when a player gets frustrated and speaks out? McD should talk to them and show who the coach is but is that going to mean a ticket out of town?

Your not going to field a 53 player roster of "rudys".

Except that what you're saying is not what he said. I understand your point, but he's an anti-McDaniels poster just looking for another excuse to pound away at the coach.

dogfish
04-19-2010, 07:49 PM
No doubt its a put up or shut up year for McD. There will be no excuses after this year one way or the other. But, if he does well will the haters give him credit?

as long as we're undefeated, clay will be squarely in his corner. . . . :heh:

Bosco
04-19-2010, 07:54 PM
who knows...its a very good site... No, it's not. I can see multitudes of players at various positions who are incorrectly ranked.

Show that site to an NFL scout and you'd get laughed at.


i just said i dont know why... If you don't know why they gave him the ranking they did (I doubt they do either) then you probably shouldn't be using their website to make your case.


maybe grahm just isnt very good any more?:eek:... Yeah, I mean in 3 years he went from an elite blocking tight end that teams were fighting over to a very poor blocker.

That seems likely.


and again the purpose of a pass catching TE is to stretch the field...throw an occassional block..but the reason people have players in the pass catching TE slot is to ...CREATE MISMATCH NIGHTMARES FOR THE OPPOSING DEFENSE...that was tonys role, just as its gates or any other Te in that situation.. No shit.

The problem is when you're a liability as a blocker, you become one dimensional and when you're one dimensional you end up with diminished playing time. Gonzalez, Gates, Watson...all at least serviceable blockers and thus they can be used on any down.


danials role is blocking with an occasional rec...tonys role was pass catching with an occassional block Wrong again.

honz
04-19-2010, 07:56 PM
I love the "he quit the team" comments (bull crap)

and the "they didn't want to be here" (really, before McD got here?)

and the "last of the cancer" (:lol: )

and my favorite...the "what did they do for us?" Yeah, not getting us to the next level, in those 2 seasons they were together is HORRENDOUS!! Brilliant thinking. Nothing like completely ignoring that you have to have a nucleus before you can build AROUND the nucleus.

Chip.. chip.. chip away

Not bull honky according to his teammates and captains that heard him say it and approved of his benching.

nevcraw
04-19-2010, 08:05 PM
Not bull honky according to his teammates and captains that heard him say it and approved of his benching.

actually the only possible evidence of this was a Josina Anderson report without quotes or named sources..
not that a grain of salt is needed with her info..

Bosco
04-19-2010, 08:13 PM
again its weird how one of the best pass blocking olines in the game...suddenlycant play worth a shit, cant pass block, cant run block It's not that weird. Hamilton hasn't been any good for years and Wiegmann had his age catch up with him in a hurry. On top of that, we played some of the most physical teams in the league in 2009. We didn't have to deal with Hampton, Ngata, Ratliff, Haynesworth, and Orakpo. Ngata and the Ravens first exposed our weak interior line and then Hampton and the Steelers immediately followed suit.


but its all simply a matter of the players suck...and has nothing at all to do with a change in run blocking and a new offensive scheme Actually that has alot to do with it and I've said that myself repeatedly. Hamilton was done for even with the old ZBS. Put him in a scheme where speed and size is emphasized and he sucked so badly he was benched. Same thing for Wiegmann on a lesser scale.


run by a fall down at the slightest touch cant run worth a shit qb Tom Brady doesn't run very well at all and yet he's elite. That's because the Pats put a premium on protecting their quarterbacks.


royals troubles have everything to do with mr kyle " look one way then throw it away" orton Oh please, give us detailed analysis on this. I can't wait to watch you try to support the argument that Kyle doesn't go through his progressions.


by the way...penelties have alot to do with effective blocking

a hold can turn a 3rd and 4 to a 3rd and 14.....but hey if you feel that has zero to do with effective blocking:confused: Dude you should just talking football, because you're absolutely in over your head here.


Equally as bad is the coach taking the low road and acting like the players and benching them on Thursday. :tsk:

Players are players. They are going to do stupid shit. Coaches should be able to address that and take the high road at the same time.

Yeah, how dare he bench a player who was so out of line that multiple well respected veterans were upset about. McHitler should have coddled Tony and worked with him on his poor hurt feelings.

I truly am dumbfounded at the kind of mental gymnastics some fans perform to defend a player's douchebaggery. At least be honest to say "I like this player and hate Josh so **** him he needs to bend over backwards to please the player."

Bosco
04-19-2010, 08:15 PM
actually the only possible evidence of this was a Josina Anderson report without quotes or named sources..
not that a grain of salt is needed with her info..

Oh really?


According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, D.J. Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

That development, combined with a home loss to the Raiders, compelled McDaniels to emphasize the need for accountability in a full team meeting Wednesday. It was later that day when Marshall complained about his hamstring.

Scheffler was presumably demoted to the scout team after he was overheard telling teammates that he couldn't wait for Denver's season to end.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4792471

Broncolingus
04-19-2010, 08:20 PM
...so, we're not really talking about (s)Chef in this thread, but about what a shitty coach McD is and how he's run (s)Chef (and every other 'destined for the HoF' player) off?

...is that it?

I didn't say a ****-in thing about McD or anyone else...

...I merely said REGARDLESS of who the mother-****** is, "...I can't wait for the season to be over," is bullshit.

Now, what's the ****-in problem, ladies?

broncofaninfla
04-19-2010, 08:24 PM
Eagles expect Ernie Sims to be a starter

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 19, 2010 5:01 PM ET
It's unclear where Ernie Sims will line up in Philadelphia, but expect him to be one of the team's starters on defense.

Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer reports that Sims should start, whether it's on the strong or weak side. Sims did a little bit of everything in Detroit and said he can play either side.

"I don't expect to come in and have them just hand me the job," Sims said.

Sims seems better suited for the weak side, which would likely make Akeem Jordan a reserve Moise Fokou is likely the favorite on the strong side, but there should be competition at both outside spots.

Omar Gaither looks like the odd man out.





We were the only team in this trade that didn't nab a starter.

nevcraw
04-19-2010, 08:26 PM
Oh really?



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4792471

this refutes my claim how?

Northman
04-19-2010, 08:27 PM
actually the only possible evidence of this was a Josina Anderson report without quotes or named sources..
not that a grain of salt is needed with her info..

Well, he never publically denied it either.

honz
04-19-2010, 08:28 PM
actually the only possible evidence of this was a Josina Anderson report without quotes or named sources..
not that a grain of salt is needed with her info..
False.

nevcraw
04-19-2010, 08:35 PM
False.

sorry but you can't connect the dots-- there is no evidence except hearsay and inuendo.. but believe what you want..


According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, D.J. Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

That development, combined with a home loss to the Raiders, compelled McDaniels to emphasize the need for accountability in a full team meeting Wednesday. It was later that day when Marshall complained about his hamstring.

Scheffler was presumably demoted to the scout team after he was overheard telling teammates that he couldn't wait for Denver's season to end.

honz
04-19-2010, 08:41 PM
sorry but you can't connect the dots-- there is no evidence except hearsay and inuendo.. but believe what you want..

You missed the most important part, which is Orton's quote. "We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle."

Ravage!!!
04-19-2010, 08:45 PM
Well, he never publically denied it either.

That doesn't mean much. No need to make a 'public' deniel in something that was purely rumor and speculation. Thats part of being an NFL player... you ignore the rumors and the speculations and continue on with what you know is in the locker room.

I think the entire thing with Scheff has been totally overblown on the boards...a nd can't tell if its because they purely want to justify the benching... or.... to feel better knowing he was going to be traded.

Seems the posters have a pretty hard line about 'hating' and discrediting any player that no longer wears the orange-n-blue. Anyone that leaves, sucks, is a baby, is a whiner, and now a quitter.

dogfish
04-19-2010, 08:48 PM
Seems the poster have a pretty hard line about 'hating' and discrediting any player that no longer wears the orange-n-blue. Anyone that leaves, sucks, is a baby, is a whiner, and now a quitter.

you forgot ugly, lazy and disrespectful. . . .

LordTrychon
04-19-2010, 08:49 PM
you forgot ugly, lazy and disrespectful. . . .

No, that only goes for the ones that want a contract.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 08:52 PM
this refutes my claim how?

You said it came from a report by Josina Anderson. I provided a story not by Josina regarding the same incident.

Status: Refuted

You said there were no quotes, the story provided quotes.

Status: Refuted


sorry but you can't connect the dots-- there is no evidence except hearsay and inuendo.. but believe what you want..


Scheffler was presumably demoted to the scout team after he was overheard telling teammates that he couldn't wait for Denver's season to end.


According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, D.J. Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

Not real hard to make the connection there.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 08:55 PM
That doesn't mean much. No need to make a 'public' deniel in something that was purely rumor and speculation. Thats part of being an NFL player... you ignore the rumors and the speculations and continue on with what you know is in the locker room. Getting benched isn't rumors and innuendo.


I think the entire thing with Scheff has been totally overblown on the boards...a nd can't tell if its because they purely want to justify the benching... or.... to feel better knowing he was going to be traded. Those veterans and Josh McDaniels disagree, and so did John Elway.


Seems the poster have a pretty hard line about 'hating' and discrediting any player that no longer wears the orange-n-blue. Anyone that leaves, sucks, is a baby, is a whiner, and now a quitter. Because almost everyone who's been shipped out has met that criteria.

How observant of you.

Northman
04-19-2010, 08:58 PM
That doesn't mean much. No need to make a 'public' deniel in something that was purely rumor and speculation. Thats part of being an NFL player... you ignore the rumors and the speculations and continue on with what you know is in the locker room.

If i was publically being labeled as a quitter i think i would set the record straight. But maybe thats just me.


I think the entire thing with Scheff has been totally overblown on the boards...a nd can't tell if its because they purely want to justify the benching... or.... to feel better knowing he was going to be traded.

Based off of what? I know if indeed Sheff said those things that he has no business being on the field. Why waste a roster spot on someone who sounds like they've already packed it in?


Seems the posters have a pretty hard line about 'hating' and discrediting any player that no longer wears the orange-n-blue. Anyone that leaves, sucks, is a baby, is a whiner, and now a quitter.

And this is a problem why? Are we not allowed to dislike players who leave this team whatsoever? I dont like Clarett, i dont like Portis, i dont like Henry. But i liked Elam, Anderson, Gary, Atwater, etc when they all left so its not EVERY player that leaves this team. It just comes down to how i felt about them individually. Im simply not going to support some yahoo just because he was in a Bronco uniform thats just stupid on any level.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 09:20 PM
"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

Well said, Kyle. Now that the Broncos failed to offer you a new contract and even brought in competition for your job, do you still feel the same way? Are you going to feel the same way when the Broncos low ball you at season's end? You're about to see "true NFL loyalty" if we don't make the playoffs this year, my son. You WILL be named the scapegoat.

We'll really get to see how some of these "team players" react when their contracts expire this year. It will be very telling if Orton, Doom, Champ, and others say "thanks, but no thanks" to the Broncos at season's end when they get low balled for the betterment of the "team".

Bosco
04-19-2010, 09:32 PM
"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

Well said, Kyle. Now that the Broncos failed to offer you a new contract and even brought in competition for your job, do you still feel the same way? Are you going to feel the same way when the Broncos low ball you at season's end? You're about to see "true NFL loyalty" if we don't make the playoffs this year, my son. You WILL be named the scapegoat. He's been saying the right things his whole career.


We'll really get to see how some of these "team players" react when their contracts expire this year. It will be very telling if Orton, Doom, Champ, and others say "thanks, but no thanks" to the Broncos at season's end when they get low balled for the betterment of the "team". Orton and Doom's contracts have already expired, and the low balling is happening this season.

Broncolingus
04-19-2010, 09:35 PM
McD is the reason the Mayan’s prophesized 2012 will happen you know...

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 09:44 PM
He's been saying the right things his whole career.

Orton and Doom's contracts have already expired, and the low balling is happening this season.

Nah, they should've been but they were RFAs. They weren't going anywhere, not for the high compensation compared with the peanuts salary the Broncos had to give them to retain them for one more year.

This year they'll be UFAs at season's end so between the end of December and beginning of March the Broncos will get to disrespect them repeatedly with low ball offers until they finally just leave via free agency in March.

If the Broncos had any real motives to keep either one, they'd have signed them by now, not slapped them in the face by making them play a season on the RFA tender. They'll be gone. This is Patriot GM-ing 101.

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Good point.

Letting a disruptive subordinate walk all over you is the sign of a true leader.

In fact, I can’t imagine a coach disciplining a player for being disruptive to the team.



But your response had to be a joke. You don't really think coaches are wrong to bench players who are undermining them in the locker room or being team disruptions, I'm sure. I mean, it's done all the time, and at all levels of sports. Belichick's done it, Reid has done it, etc....

Really? :confused: You cant be forking serious! It isn't about letting a disruptive subordinate walk over you.

But it is about NOT letting a 24/25 year old kid OWN you and make you look like the ass 50% of the fan base thinks you are. Those guys knew exactly how to push boy wonder's buttons and get exactly what they wanted. McDaniels further thrashed Marshall's trade value in the way he handled the presser! You shine a car before you sell it!

As to the benching. McDaniels made a bad situation worse. He didn't have to bench them on Thursday. He could have played it out. He could have used the entire situation to his advantage. In the end, he made a knee jerk reaction, lied about WHO wanted the benching, then took the normal step to throw the player UNDER THE BUS! Funny how you neglect to mention or even remember that.

Tell me when was the last time Belichick or Reid threw a player under the bus and questioned a players toughness (a no no in this league) to the media? :confused:

Questioning Marshall's toughness after being misdiagnosed and playing on a bad hip the previous season makes it all the worse!

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 09:50 PM
I am going to assume his point was more to the fact of will Josh work things out with players in the future or just ship them right out. Sceff/Marsh gone ok, but what happens next time when a player gets frustrated and speaks out? McD should talk to them and show who the coach is but is that going to mean a ticket out of town?

Your not going to field a 53 player roster of "rudys".

The comment you made in general is about right. The best coaches in this league know how to handle the problem kids. It is no surprise Parcells pulled the trigger.

Let's also forget that Marshall's "record" has something to do with this. Why is his record of more concern to the team than Richard Quinn's? :confused: His case was just as bad! If it is about bad apples then it is about bad apples.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 09:50 PM
McD is the reason the Mayan’s prophesized 2012 will happen you know...

Yeah, I know.

TXBRONC
04-19-2010, 09:50 PM
He's been saying the right things his whole career.

Orton and Doom's contracts have already expired, and the low balling is happening this season.

Ah no. If their contract already expired they would be UFAs. :shot:

Bosco
04-19-2010, 09:58 PM
Ah no. If their contract already expired they would be UFAs. :shot:

Wrong.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 09:59 PM
If the Broncos had any real motives to keep either one, they'd have signed them by now, not slapped them in the face by making them play a season on the RFA tender. They'll be gone. This is Patriot GM-ing 101. You realize there is a very real chance that there is no football in 2011?

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 10:05 PM
You realize there is a very real chance that there is no football in 2011?

SO, that's a reason not to give either guy a new contract? So that they can go into this season which might be the last before a lockout with a completely uncertain future? That's a dick move no matter how you slice it, bro. At some point if you're the FO, you have to buy into the bullshit that you are shoveling to the players about this "team" concept and starting treating the players that deserve it the right way by rewarding them with contracts.

Orton and Dumervil bought in, where's McDaniels' show of support? ... Oh wait that's just not the "Patriot Way". The Patriot Way is to get every ounce you can out of a player then trade or release him when he gets expensive (earns a new contract) or is no longer useful enough to you that you think you can replace him with someone cheaper. Other than to Brady and Bellicheat, the Pats have no loyalty to anyone. We're rapidly becoming "that team".

TXBRONC
04-19-2010, 10:06 PM
Wrong.

No I'm right. If they don't have a contract they could sign with any team of their choosing.

nevcraw
04-19-2010, 10:15 PM
You said it came from a report by Josina Anderson. I provided a story not by Josina regarding the same incident.

1. it did and 2. this story did not refute my claim that it came from Anderson..


Status: Refuted and now Denied


You said there were no quotes, the story provided quotes.

Ortons's quote did not discuss Schef's alleged statemements


Status: Refuted also denied







Not real hard to make the connection there.

Orton's quote did not discuss Schef's alleged statemements

someone over heard soemthing about something which got back to coach during a crazy losing streak and the playoffs on the line.. Hmm.. - maybe light a fire? maybe find some scapegoats? maybe - try to give the sehawks a btter draft position? I kid.. All I'm saying is a lot could have happened maybe the complete truth is not is obvious as you would believe..

http://community.kdvr.com/_Agent-Reacts-to-Broncos-TE-Tony-Schefflers-benching/BLOG/1687965/96399.html


Denver Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler will be benched for the regular season finale against the Kansas City Chiefs for attitude issues, and his agent, Bus Cook, is perplexed the situation has even reached this point.

“I don’t know. I still don’t have all the details myself. Nobody has told me why Tony was deactivated,” said Cook to Fox31’s Josina Anderson early Friday afternoon in a phone conversation.

During the broadcast of Fox31 news at 5:00pm on Friday, Anderson reported that sources indicated Scheffler was over heard saying he wanted out of Denver following the Broncos 30-27 loss to the Eagles last Sunday.
According to these sources, there are members of the Broncos team who believe Scheffler was ratted out by at least one fellow player or coach to Josh McDaniels.
“All I know is that I got a text from Tony a couple days ago that he wasn’t going to play this Sunday, but Tony didn’t tell me why,” said Cook.

Another well-placed league source told Anderson that while Scheffler initially was frustrated this offseason after his name circulated in trade rumors and his friend and fellow Cook client, Jay Cutler, left Denver for good, he eventually made an effort to turn things around during the season.

However, as more games passed by and it became apparent he wasn’t a consistent and frequent target, Scheffler’s emotions began to boil again.

Under Mike Shanahan, Scheffler had 40 receptions for 645 yards in 13 games last season. However under McDaniels, Scheffler has had 31 catches for 416 yards in more games this season.

“Personally, I think Tony is as good as any tight end in football. When he gets the opportunity he has shown that he can make big plays. Like I said, I am not the coach but this doesn’t make sense to me,” said Scheffler’s agent.

Cook seemed confused that McDaniels elected to bench two good Broncos players for a game with such strong postseason implications.

“Tony and Brandon (Marshall) are in the same boat. You would think with this team having an outside chance to make the playoffs they would want to play Brandon Marshall and Tony. They are two good players, but I don’t have all the information.”

When asked if he was going to reach out to McDaniels for an explanation Cook seemed reticent to the idea a discussion would make a difference.

“I’m not sure I will make a call because I’m not that sure it would change anything. It’s not like (Tony) is going to be reactivated for the game,” said Cook.

When you combine the fact that Scheffler is in the last year of his rookie deal with the reality he’s spending the last game of the regular season on the bench, it’s fair to say his status for returning to the team is up in the air.

“Scheffler’s contract ends in February, and I believe the deadline is March 4th for the Broncos have to make a qualifying offer to him as a restricted player since that is what he’ll be as things stand now. The first thing is that they need to let us know what they want to do.” explained Cook.

Under typical circumstances, an NFL player needs a minimum of four years to become eligible for unrestricted free agency. However, if the league and it’s union can’t agree on a new labor contract and there is no salary cap in 2010, this minimum increases to at least six years. As a result, these eligible players would have their restrictions extended and their freedom to test their open market value delayed significantly.

For insider scoops and breaking news alerts follow Josina Anderson on twitter at http://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson

Bosco
04-19-2010, 10:19 PM
SO, that's a reason not to give either guy a new contract? Pretty much. They're not going to start handing out big contracts when there may not even be football next year.


So that they can go into this season which might be the last before a lockout with a completely uncertain future? That's a dick move no matter how you slice it, bro. At some point if you're the FO, you have to buy into the bullshit that you are shoveling to the players about this "team" concept and starting treating the players that deserve it the right way by rewarding them with contracts. That's business for ya. It sucks for the players but it's happening all over the league not just in Denver.


Orton and Dumervil bought in, where's McDaniels' show of support? This goes beyond McDaniels.


... Oh wait that's just not the "Patriot Way". The Patriot Way is to get every ounce you can out of a player then trade or release him when he gets expensive (earns a new contract) or is no longer useful enough to you that you think you can replace him with someone cheaper. Other than to Brady and Bellicheat, the Pats have no loyalty to anyone. We're rapidly become "those guys". That's not really true. Plenty of players have got good deals from the Pats, they just won't overpay for it and they always have young talent waiting in the wings as leverage.


No I'm right. If they don't have a contract they could sign with any team of their choosing. Do you not understand what a restricted free agent is? Emphasis on the "FREE AGENT" part.

:tsk:

TXBRONC
04-19-2010, 10:23 PM
Pretty much. They're not going to start handing out big contracts when there may not even be football next year.

That's business for ya. It sucks for the players but it's happening all over the league not just in Denver.

This goes beyond McDaniels.

That's not really true. Plenty of players have got good deals from the Pats, they just won't overpay for it and they always have young talent waiting in the wings as leverage.

Do you not understand what a restricted free agent is? Emphasis on the "FREE AGENT" part.

:tsk:

Genius the operative word is Restricted. :coffee:

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 10:25 PM
That's not really true. Plenty of players have got good deals from the Pats, they just won't overpay for it and they always have young talent waiting in the wings as leverage.



Name a few of these "plenty", not named Tom Brady, that got deals from the Pats. Adalius Thomas doesn't count because they had to pay him big $ to sign in the first place because he was a FA.

Okay, I'll start - Vince Wilfork this year..... ready, GO!

Not so easy is it?

Ravage!!!
04-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Name a few of these "plenty", not named Tom Brady, that got deals from the Pats. Adalius Thomas doesn't count because they had to pay him big $ to sign in the first place because he was a FA.

Okay, I'll start - Vince Wilfork this year..... ready, GO!

Not so easy is it?

What you mean? Didn't Seymour get a great deal? What about Milloy? Ty Law? Vrabel?

HORSEPOWER 56
04-19-2010, 10:34 PM
What you mean? Didn't Seymour get a great deal? What about Milloy? Ty Law? Vrabel?

Oh, you forgot Branch, Givens, Troy Brown (who actually took a pay cut and begged on bended knee to come back), Caldwell, Vinatieri, Asante Samuel, our very own Jabar "superstar Marshall replacer" Gaffney, Jarvis Green, "supersnapper" Paxton (who is "elite" by the way), Hochstein, Jordan, etc, etc, etc.

Gee, it seems easier to make a list of "team guys" the Pats kicked to the curb, doesn't it?

Lancane
04-19-2010, 10:35 PM
Oh, you forgot Branch, Givens, Troy Brown (who actually took a pay cut and begged on bended knee to come back), Caldwell, Vinatieri, our very own Jabar "superstar marshall replacer" Gaffney, Jarvis Green, "supersnapper" Paxton (who is "elite" by the way), Hochstein, Jordan, etc, etc, etc.

Gee, it seems easier to make a list of "team guys" the Pats kicked to the curb, doesn't it?

Shhhhhuuuuuushhhhhh... The McDaniels supporters may actually worry if given facts!

:D

Bosco
04-19-2010, 11:00 PM
Genius the operative word is Restricted. :coffee:

And you realize that to become a RFA, your contract has to expire right?

Jesus H Christ man.

weazel
04-19-2010, 11:10 PM
I really, really, really love lamp!

I mean, I absolutely love it.

Bosco
04-19-2010, 11:11 PM
Adalius Thomas doesn't count because they had to pay him big $ to sign in the first place because he was a FA.

Thomas (yeah, he counts), Moss and Bruschi just off the top of my head.

#1dolphinfan
04-19-2010, 11:30 PM
I know you guys may not agree with me but your team is going down hill fast as of right now you got rid of one of the best WRs in the game a very good TE and your franchise QB a while ago

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 11:32 PM
I know you guys may not agree with me but your team is going down hill fast as of right now you got rid of one of the best WRs in the game a very good TE and your franchise QB a while ago

But we have NoShow Moreno at RB :rolleyes:

#1dolphinfan
04-19-2010, 11:34 PM
But we have NoShow Moreno at RB :rolleyes:

He has talent but you are right by spelling his name that way

Tempus Fugit
04-19-2010, 11:36 PM
Really? :confused: You cant be forking serious! It isn't about letting a disruptive subordinate walk over you.

But it is about NOT letting a 24/25 year old kid OWN you and make you look like the ass 50% of the fan base thinks you are. Those guys knew exactly how to push boy wonder's buttons and get exactly what they wanted. McDaniels further thrashed Marshall's trade value in the way he handled the presser! You shine a car before you sell it!

As to the benching. McDaniels made a bad situation worse. He didn't have to bench them on Thursday. He could have played it out. He could have used the entire situation to his advantage. In the end, he made a knee jerk reaction, lied about WHO wanted the benching, then took the normal step to throw the player UNDER THE BUS! Funny how you neglect to mention or even remember that.

Tell me when was the last time Belichick or Reid threw a player under the bus and questioned a players toughness (a no no in this league) to the media? :confused:

Questioning Marshall's toughness after being misdiagnosed and playing on a bad hip the previous season makes it all the worse!

This may be the most ridiculous post I've read in months.

1.) Made up "facts"?

Check

2.) Absolute lack of understanding how sports discipline works?

Check

3.) Clear display of unreasonable bias against an individual?

Check

4.) Lack of understanding the context in which everything was taking place?

Check


Frankly, it's a waste of time discussing pretty much anything with you McDaniels bashers. You don't know a damned thing about what's actually going on in the locker room, but you all act as if you're one of the 53 players on the roster. Hell, you all act as if you're leading the players only meetings. You find the most idiotic of excuses to turn obviously good moves into so-called disasters. You can't admit to being wrong about even the smallest things involved in questioning McDaniels.

Really, it's pathetic. It's why I stopped posting here for a while, and it's why I'll likely stop for a while again after the draft. You people have become self-parodies. What the hell is wrong with all of your lives that you have to direct over a year's worth of vitriol towards a man you've never met just because an immature quarterback who's overrated and thought he was bigger than the team ended up getting traded because he couldn't handle learning that he could be traded just like every other player in the NFL?

sakic_avs
04-19-2010, 11:40 PM
Wow, this is the first post I've read from TF, but he clearly is right. Listening to you blowhards make unintelligent remark afte unintelligent remark about the Broncows organization is comical.

Shazam!
04-19-2010, 11:45 PM
Frankly, it's a waste of time discussing pretty much anything with you McDaniels bashers. You don't know a damned thing about what's actually going on in the locker room, but you all act as if you're one of the 53 players on the roster. Hell, you all act as if you're leading the players only meetings. You find the most idiotic of excuses to turn obviously good moves into so-called disasters. You can't admit to being wrong about even the smallest things involved in questioning McDaniels.

Really, it's pathetic. It's why I stopped posting here for a while, and it's why I'll likely stop for a while again after the draft. You people have become self-parodies. What the hell is wrong with all of your lives that you have to direct over a year's worth of vitriol towards a man you've never met just because an immature quarterback who's overrated and thought he was bigger than the team ended up getting traded because he couldn't handle learning that he could be traded just like every other player in the NFL?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 11:49 PM
This may be the most ridiculous post I've read in months.

1.) Made up "facts"?

Check

2.) Absolute lack of understanding how sports discipline works?

Check

3.) Clear display of unreasonable bias against an individual?

Check

4.) Lack of understanding the context in which everything was taking place?

Check

The only thing more ridiculous is your pompous arrogance that because you say something it is fact. You don't know me. You don't know what I do and dont understand.

Why don't you actually support points one through 4 above instead of pretending like they are true simply because you say they are. Either use facts, logic and support for your argument or move on!



Frankly, it's a waste of time discussing pretty much anything with you McDaniels bashers.

I don't bash McDaniels simply because I want to. I could say the same thing about the McDaniels jock huggers who would say anything to support the guy.

I give him his props when he deserves it and I criticise when warranted. It just so happens, IMHO, he has done far more to deserve the criticism.



You don't know a damned thing about what's actually going on in the locker room, but you all act as if you're one of the 53 players on the roster.

I don't need to be in the locker room. That is a ridiculous assertion and logic. McDaniels has been caught in several lies. He said Bailey, Dawkins, and DJ all approached him about benching Marshall. Bailey refuted that directly on FM 104.3 the FAN. Just another lie by McDaniels among many!

Ultimately McDaniels tenure can be summarized by player conflict after player conflict. The one common denominator is McDaniels. How is that so hard to see? :confused:



Hell, you all act as if you're leading the players only meetings. You find the most idiotic of excuses to turn obviously good moves into so-called disasters.

What are the good motives you speak of? Quit speaking in general and use some specific examples.

Here's one for you: Broncos approach B Marsh about redoing his deal at the combine last year. Watley incident hits the papers. Team tells him play out his contract, come through the trial clean, and they promise to redo his deal. Marshall held every ounce of his side of the bargain. The Broncos? Not so much.

Good intentions? Like removing the bad apples from this team. Remove the troublemakers? Well, why is Quinn still here? He is a woman beater? Why is Dan Graham here? He had a run in with his girl too!



You can't admit to being wrong about even the smallest things involved in questioning McDaniels.

Again you are running your mouth spewing verbal sewage. I gave McDaniels credit for moving Cutler. I just disapproved of the way he went about it!



Really, it's pathetic. It's why I stopped posting here for a while, and it's why I'll likely stop for a while again after the draft.

You wont be missed. Maybe you can learn how to cite examples and support your arguments. It might make things a little more interesting.



You people have become self-parodies. What the hell is wrong with all of your lives that you have to direct over a year's worth of vitriol towards a man you've never met just because an immature quarterback who's overrated and thought he was bigger than the team ended up getting traded because he couldn't handle learning that he could be traded just like every other player in the NFL?

You McDaniels nut huggers are a joke! You all think people are critical for no other reason than the Cutler saga. WAKE UP! This has nothing to do with Cutler and everything to do with MCDANIELS!

jhildebrand
04-19-2010, 11:51 PM
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

I agree. He wins the most pompous assed post of the day

:beer: Good job! :elefant:

Shazam!
04-20-2010, 12:01 AM
It has everything to do with Cutler. That's when all the McD hate began.

He can pluck the most talented players from the Draft and he'll still get crucified for it.

If he opted to keep Marshall and pay him this ridiculous money, he'd have been killed for overpaying a player with such a troubled history.

He's getting killed for trading two players, Hillis and Schefller, who are near non-existent and have done next to nothing.

It's ridiculous.

Until it is clear that what he is doing is not producing on the Field and it clearly isnt working I will support McD. We dont have that after one season, a season that Shanahan wouldve likely done no better.

Denver was a disaster the last few years and one of the most embarassing finishes Ive ever seen the Broncos fall was in 2008. This has become nearly the lost decade for the Broncos with 1 playoff win and 1 division title followed by a string of embarassments.

Changes had to be made. Let's see what he serves up.

Tempus Fugit
04-20-2010, 12:06 AM
Oh, you forgot Branch, Givens, Troy Brown (who actually took a pay cut and begged on bended knee to come back), Caldwell, Vinatieri, Asante Samuel, our very own Jabar "superstar Marshall replacer" Gaffney, Jarvis Green, "supersnapper" Paxton (who is "elite" by the way), Hochstein, Jordan, etc, etc, etc.

Gee, it seems easier to make a list of "team guys" the Pats kicked to the curb, doesn't it?

1.) Branch held out, after stating that he wouldn't hold out, because he wanted his contract re-negotiated and wouldn't keep the last year of his rookie deal as part of any extension. The Patriots offered him the money, but would not get rid of the last rookie year. He was not kicked to the curb. He was traded to Seattle, who was willing to kill the last year of his rookie deal along with giving him a huge contract.

2.) Caldwell was brought back in 2007, the year that Welker and Moss were traded for. He lost the training camp battle and was cut. This happens all the time in the NFL.

3.) Vinatieri was franchised and made a lot of money with the team as a result, since he was one of the highest paid kickers in the league. The two sides couldn't agree to a deal, and the Patriots didn't franchise Vinatieri the next year. Vinatieri got an offer from the Colts and never gave the Patriots to match. You might want to read up on it, because it's a pretty interesting read:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/08/10/vinatieri_shunned_patriots/?page=1

4.) The Patriots tried to get a long term deal with Samuel, but they could not reach an agreement. The team franchised Samuel, making him one ofthe highest paid corners in the league, but Asante threatened not to sign the agreement if the Patriots didn't agree not to franchise him again. The Patriots agreed to that and the Eagles offered him a huge contract.

You might be interested to know that Reid has recently called Samuel out, saying he needs to play better, and that the rumors are the the Eagles may be drafting multiple corners this year in order to find a replacement for Asante.

5.) Here's Green's last contract info:

http://www.patscap.com/2009capfootnotes.html#jarvisgreen

At his age, and with his lack of recent production for New England, the Patriots chose to go in another direction, because he didn't get the job done as a starter last season.

6.) Jordan was the #4 running back for one season, and played only 8 games in his New England career. He was only signed to a 1 year deal in the first place. What's he even doing on your list, for crying out loud?

7.) Paxton got an obscene amount of money to play for the Broncos. You people were all up in arms because of how much he got. The Patriots not paying him that kind of money now constitutes kicking him to the curb? Interesting way you play both sides of the fence on this stuff.

8.) Hochstein was an aging backup that the Patriots traded to the Broncos, where he had an opportunity to get more playing time than he would have back in New England, since the Patriots had begun grooming younger players.

9.) Brown was kept on the team for an extra season after everyone knew he was washed up, and paid $820,000 to sit the bench for all except one game during the regular season.

10.) Gaffney. You're citing this? Really? Just how desperate are you to bag on McDaniels?


Your list does far more to undermine your argument than to strengthen it.

Tempus Fugit
04-20-2010, 12:08 AM
The only thing more ridiculous is your pompous arrogance that because you say something it is fact. You don't know me. You don't know what I do and dont understand.

Why don't you actually support points one through 4 above instead of pretending like they are true simply because you say they are. Either use facts, logic and support for your argument or move on!



I don't bash McDaniels simply because I want to. I could say the same thing about the McDaniels jock huggers who would say anything to support the guy.

I give him his props when he deserves it and I criticise when warranted. It just so happens, IMHO, he has done far more to deserve the criticism.



I don't need to be in the locker room. That is a ridiculous assertion and logic. McDaniels has been caught in several lies. He said Bailey, Dawkins, and DJ all approached him about benching Marshall. Bailey refuted that directly on FM 104.3 the FAN. Just another lie by McDaniels among many!

Ultimately McDaniels tenure can be summarized by player conflict after player conflict. The one common denominator is McDaniels. How is that so hard to see? :confused:



What are the good motives you speak of? Quit speaking in general and use some specific examples.

Here's one for you: Broncos approach B Marsh about redoing his deal at the combine last year. Watley incident hits the papers. Team tells him play out his contract, come through the trial clean, and they promise to redo his deal. Marshall held every ounce of his side of the bargain. The Broncos? Not so much.

Good intentions? Like removing the bad apples from this team. Remove the troublemakers? Well, why is Quinn still here? He is a woman beater? Why is Dan Graham here? He had a run in with his girl too!



Again you are running your mouth spewing verbal sewage. I gave McDaniels credit for moving Cutler. I just disapproved of the way he went about it!



You wont be missed. Maybe you can learn how to cite examples and support your arguments. It might make things a little more interesting.



You McDaniels nut huggers are a joke! You all think people are critical for no other reason than the Cutler saga. WAKE UP! This has nothing to do with Cutler and everything to do with MCDANIELS!

Thank you for helping to reinforce my point. I especially loved the irony of the opening sentence. It really does need to be re-posted, especially in light of all your assertions about McDaniels alleged lies:


The only thing more ridiculous is your pompous arrogance that because you say something it is fact

Northman
04-20-2010, 12:14 AM
I know you guys may not agree with me but your team is going down hill fast as of right now you got rid of one of the best WRs in the game a very good TE and your franchise QB a while ago

Well damn, now that your here why should even watch this season. Can i borrow you crystal ball? I want to win the lotto this week.

jhildebrand
04-20-2010, 12:15 AM
It has everything to do with Cutler. That's when all the McD hate began.

I was upset with the trade. I came around and ultimately saw that McDaniels should have moved Cutler. I just disagreed with the way he went about it especially the lies!

People forgave him for that. Even those that didn't they didn't simply hate him because of it (some did but not the majority).



He can pluck the most talented players from the Draft and he'll still get crucified for it.

But he failed miserably with last year's draft. Another valid and legitimate source of criticism that has NOTHING to do with Cutler.



If he opted to keep Marshall and pay him this ridiculous money, he'd have been killed for overpaying a player with such a troubled history.

It would be hard to argue he would be overpaying. Some would be pissed at paying a guy like Marshall. I get that. This is the NFL. These kids come from some of the worst places America has. I don't expect them to be choir boys.



He's getting killed for trading two players, Hillis and Schefller, who are near non-existent and have done next to nothing.

He is getting killed in large part for how he handled Hillis. He came out at the end of the season in his presser and declared Hillis would be a Bronco for a long time to come. He declared the inability to use Hillis was a failure on the coaching staff's part and then promptly shipped him out. Again, the lies. No lying was required there but he CHOSE to lie. It is a character flaw. You guys that love McD all point to character guys and improving character on the team yet turn a blind eye to the coach LYING consistently. How is that good character?

Finally, how is it Hillis was deemed the best hands on the team and a top 10 talent on any team by one regime yet 100% useless to McDaniels? I highly doubt talent evaluation is that disparate in the NFL. Simply put, McDaniels couldn't afford the risk of Hillis making Moreno look like a terrible pick. He was already killed for that pick.

Also, these guys were productive. Scheffler led the league for TE's out of that 2006 class for TD's and YPC and a few other stats. Yet somehow McDaniels couldn't make use of them.

EVEN THEN I THINK HE GOT GREAT VALUE FOR SCHEFFLER!



Until it is clear that what he is doing is not producing on the Field and it clearly isnt working I will support McD. We dont have that after one season, a season that Shanahan wouldve likely done no better.

Im no Shanahan lover either! I had argued for the last 3 years he needed to go.

Just as so many of you point to McDaniels insistance on having character guys I like it. I just happen to like it when it is real and not some bull shit sold to the team. If it was real the team would keep their word. He would be of the same character he preaches. As of now, it is "Do as I say not as I do."



Denver was a disaster the last few years and one of the most embarassing finishes Ive ever seen the Broncos fall was in 2008.

Agreed. 2009 was equally bad if not worse. We didn't go through 6 RB's in 09 and the slew of injuries we did in 08.


This has become nearly the lost decade for the Broncos with 1 playoff win and 1 division title followed by a string of embarassments.

Changes had to be made. Let's see what he serves up.

Fair enough. I honestly hope McDaniels pulls through. I have no problem eating Brontosaurus sized crow. It will take a while. However, McDaniels entire tenure has been characterized by strife and I don't see changes where it matters most: with McDaniels. I just get the feeling the Broncos are to McDaniels what the Browns were to Belichick and Raiders to Shanahan.

jhildebrand
04-20-2010, 12:21 AM
Thank you for helping to reinforce my point. I especially loved the irony of the opening sentence. It really does need to be re-posted, especially in light of all your assertions about McDaniels alleged lies:

The lies are well documented. The Denver Post and Boston Globe highlighted the lie that was "we only answered the phone." Do your forking homework man! Champ Bailey on live radio with Alfred Williams and DMac directly refuted the idea that he supported or even suggested Marshall be benched. So someone is lying: McD or Bailey. One has already been caught in lies!

Outside of that you didn't even make a point. You spoke in general, couldn't support your arguments and came off like the blind homer you are.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y55ILMm6kSI/SfcwiMRiaXI/AAAAAAAABzc/D_b37Zo6DyA/s400/Nuthugger.jpg

Northman
04-20-2010, 12:30 AM
Man oh man, this place is going to be loads of fun again this year. We have the nuthuggers and cliffjumpers. Ill just wait and see. lmao

Tempus Fugit
04-20-2010, 12:31 AM
The lies are well documented. The Denver Post and Boston Globe highlighted the lie that was "we only answered the phone." Do your forking homework man! Champ Bailey on live radio with Alfred Williams and DMac directly refuted the idea that he supported or even suggested Marshall be benched. So someone is lying: McD or Bailey. One has already been caught in lies!

Outside of that you didn't even make a point. You spoke in general, couldn't support your arguments and came off like the blind homer you are.


Nobody "highlighted the lie that was "we only answered the phone."" That assertion by the McDaniels bashers was blown out of the water when they first made the claim.

As for Bailey, feel free to supply a link or transcript.

Finally, regarding the 'homer' accusations, I've supplied data to support my assertions time and time again on this board. Feel free to go back and look at my post history to verify that. It simply does no good with you McDaniels bashers, because the facts don't matter to you. It's all about the butt hurt over Cutler.

sakic_avs
04-20-2010, 12:36 AM
ActuaL Bailey quote:

"There's definitely a rift there. It seems like Brandon wasn't doing the thing necessary for every player on the team to do to make us successful."

Bosco
04-20-2010, 03:52 AM
But he failed miserably with last year's draft. Another valid and legitimate source of criticism that has NOTHING to do with Cutler.

He did? Let's review.

Moreno - Led all rookies in rushing. Good pick.
Ayers - Converted from a 4-3 DT to a 3-4 OLB and got significant playing time. Mayock projected him as a 3 year project. Looks good.
Smith - Looked good early on, got banged up and then ended up behind Ty Law on the depth chart. Jury still out.
McBath - Excellent on special teams. Didn't miss a beat when he subbed in for injured Dawkins/Hill and even started taking some snaps when they came back. Looks good.
Quinn - 3rd on the depth chart behind Graham and Scheffler. Jury still out.
Bruton - Special teams demon that was getting defensive snaps down the stretch. Looks good.
Olsen - Did not see the field, which is the norm for most rookie linemen. Jury still out.
McKinley - Saw a little promise as a returner, didn't see much offense. Jury still out.
Brandstater - 3rd quarterback who looked good in preseason. Jury still out.
Schlueter - Cut. Failure.

So out of 10 draft picks we have 1 surefire good pick, 3 who look good, 5 who the jury is out on and 1 failure.

I'm going to have to disagree with your "failure" assessment.


He is getting killed in large part for how he handled Hillis. He came out at the end of the season in his presser and declared Hillis would be a Bronco for a long time to come. He declared the inability to use Hillis was a failure on the coaching staff's part and then promptly shipped him out. Again, the lies. No lying was required there but he CHOSE to lie. It is a character flaw. How is that a lie? He kept Hillis despite the fact that he sucked in 2009 and that alone shows that McD planned on keeping him around, but then Cleveland decided to put Quinn (the guy he originally wanted when the Cutler trade went down) on the market and he was able to move Hillis to acquire him, so McD pulled the trigger.



You guys that love McD all point to character guys and improving character on the team yet turn a blind eye to the coach LYING consistently. How is that good character? When I see McDaniels lie I'll call him on it. So far, it hasn't happened.


Finally, how is it Hillis was deemed the best hands on the team and a top 10 talent on any team by one regime yet 100% useless to McDaniels? I highly doubt talent evaluation is that disparate in the NFL. Easy. Hillis has a clear lack of intelligence and has a hard time learning offenses. That was the book on him in College, it's the same reason Shanahan benched him in early 2008 and it's a big reason why Josh benched him. Peyton has all the talent in the world but he's just not a bright guy when it comes to football.


Simply put, McDaniels couldn't afford the risk of Hillis making Moreno look like a terrible pick. He was already killed for that pick. Did you have your tinfoil hat on for that sentence? That fails even basic logic.


Also, these guys were productive. Scheffler led the league for TE's out of that 2006 class for TD's and YPC and a few other stats. Yet somehow McDaniels couldn't make use of them. Again, distortions. Hillis was given every chance to produce. He played himself out of a job. Scheffler started more games than he ever had in his career and caught a whopping 9 less passes than in 2009. He was sent packing mainly for being a world class douche, and to a lesser extent, a poor blocker.


Nobody "highlighted the lie that was "we only answered the phone."" That assertion by the McDaniels bashers was blown out of the water when they first made the claim. This is absolutely true. Adam Schefter (the holy grail of Broncos reporting) and Peter King (New England connections) all stated that all the trade proposals were inbound and McD/Xanders listened and then declined them. Until a more credible source comes along and says otherwise, I'll continue believing them.

Elevation inc
04-20-2010, 08:20 AM
More like he's happy that he's back home since he's from there. So happy that he's not even pushing for a contract right away.

Funny how those whom are headaches for McDaniels seem to have better attitudes elsewhere?

:confused:

there home now why would they...if anything MCD shows how reasonable he is and works for them to go home....

Elevation inc
04-20-2010, 08:27 AM
its hilarious people are upset over sheffler.....bronco nation is very sad right now, when we are fighting over a guy, who bitched to his teammates about his playing time....its great you could play on third downs for shanny tony...but there are 3 downs we need you for, 2 bad you cant play for 2 of them becasue you cant block for crap or stay healthy MR. All pro....lol....


I mean lets be real here disgruntled minions the guy was a good pass catcher but wth are we suppose to do with him and his piss poor blocking throw to him every down????? gimme a break the guy cant play 3 downs to save his life.

and he hasnt had a single year of beiong healthy...WTH cant you all see herejust because us couch potatoes and MCD wanted a 3rd rd pick ,doesnt mean the league will give it to us.....stop acting spoiled like you all know we could have gotten more....


even the detroit lions feel this all pro TE is only a back-up.....they have a rookie starting ahead of him already...and he is coming off knee injury...and isnt even running full speed


haters wanna be mad marshall isnt here fine flame away, i can at least understand where your coming from even if i disagree...but using the sheff deal to back your claims against MCD is simply retarded and ya all should know better


GET A GRIP.......

claymore
04-20-2010, 08:48 AM
its hilarious people are upset over sheffler.....bronco nation is very sad right now, when we are fighting over a guy, who bitched to his teammates about his playing time....its great you could play on third downs for shanny tony...but there are 3 downs we need you for, 2 bad you cant play for 2 of them becasue you cant block for crap or stay healthy MR. All pro....lol....


I mean lets be real here disgruntled minions the guy was a good pass catcher but wth are we suppose to do with him and his piss poor blocking throw to him every down????? gimme a break the guy cant play 3 downs to save his life.

and he hasnt had a single year of beiong healthy...WTH cant you all see herejust because us couch potatoes and MCD wanted a 3rd rd pick ,doesnt mean the league will give it to us.....stop acting spoiled like you all know we could have gotten more....


even the detroit lions feel this all pro TE is only a back-up.....they have a rookie starting ahead of him already...and he is coming off knee injury...and isnt even running full speed


haters wanna be mad marshall isnt here fine flame away, i can at least understand where your coming from even if i disagree...but using the sheff deal to back your claims against MCD is simply retarded and ya all should know better


GET A GRIP.......

Well, McD just got rid of 2 players that produced around 140 recptions a year. Who is replacing them?

Elevation inc
04-20-2010, 09:17 AM
Well, McD just got rid of 2 players that produced around 140 recptions a year. Who is replacing them?

right because there is no one else in the NFL or college that can catch balls.....lol

like i said i get the marshall transaction and the disdain by many of you associated with it...i will miss marshall...but sheffler...thats just to far....i am very glad we got something for a TE who cant stay healthy, is gonna be a back-up a rookie in detroit of all places, and cant block so can really only ever be situational....

granted the guy can catch....and even I admit im very curious, to see how MCD replaces sheff and marshall....but im not the least bit concerned about whats going on right now.....i embrace it and act accordingly when the time to judge falls upon us....right now its to early to judge a man in my opinion after 1 year simply because he got rid of players many fans like and cant accept being gone....


I am level headed enough though and realize this season and this draft are a big deal, and success would go a long way to cement crtics fears.....i dont even really care if people dont like MCD.....even i agree this is a make or break year for MCDin many ways....i firmly belive if your gonna make changes they better be for the better, i saw flashes last year, but i saw bad things also, and hopefully the full package comes out this year.....and we all get to enjoy it.....but i refuse to get on the everything is MCD's fault when thats just not the case.A fter reading 200 posts on how great sheff was i just couldnt take it any more....sorry...*Shrugs*

claymore
04-20-2010, 09:20 AM
right because there is no one else in the NFL or college that can catch balls.....lol

like i said i get the marshall transaction and the disdain by many of you associated with it...i will miss marshall...but sheffler...thats just to far....i am very glad we got something for a TE who cant stay healthy, is gonna be a back-up a rookie in detroit of all places, and cant block so can really only ever be situational....

granted the guy can catch....and even I admit im very curious, to see how MCD replaces sheff and marshall....but im not the least bit concerned about whats going on right now.....i embrace it and act accordingly when the time to judge falls upon us....right now its to early to judge a man in my opinion after 1 year simply because he got rid of players many fans like and cant accept being gone....


I am levelheaed though and realize this season and this draft are a big deal, and success would go a long way to cement crtics fears.....i dont even really care if people dont like MCD.....

but after reading 200 posts on how great sheff was i just couldnt take it any more....sorry...*Shrugs*
The Sheffler and Marshall trade are hardly the reason why Im concerned with this regime.

This draft is McD's 2nd to last bastion of hope. the last bastion of hope is a winning season.

He wasnt hired to cause this much turbulence, and not win.

Elevation inc
04-20-2010, 09:25 AM
Well, McD just got rid of 2 players that produced around 140 recptions a year. Who is replacing them?

im willing to bet many of you are gonna eat crow about richard quinn this year. MCD smartly develops rookies behind vets where he can for year 1, and thats exactly what we saw with quinn.....people wanna call him a bust, but he actually was involved more for his blocking last year than people realize.....he is a young daniel graham.....and for peopel that dont like that????? do not underestimate how valuable a TE like graham or quinn is to a offense becasue of there blocking ever...it would be a mistake to do that...

i would much rather have quinn who can catch and block very well, over sheff who can catch but cant play 3rd and short because he cant block....if you disagree fine...your entitled to that....but i favor power and trench dominance over pretty catches once in awhile....

LordTrychon
04-20-2010, 09:25 AM
ActuaL Bailey quote:

"There's definitely a rift there. It seems like Brandon wasn't doing the thing necessary for every player on the team to do to make us successful."

“I mean he really is a good guy. When I first got here I watched him practice and the way he worked and went about his business really impressed me. That was before he had the one hundred yard season, the thousand-yard seasons, so that is just what he brings to the table. He really is a hard worker. He is a good guy and I want it to work out for him and I think it will now and I think it will for the Broncos too.”

Actual Stokley quote.

Elevation inc
04-20-2010, 09:26 AM
The Sheffler and Marshall trade are hardly the reason why Im concerned with this regime.

This draft is McD's 2nd to last bastion of hope. the last bastion of hope is a winning season.

He wasnt hired to cause this much turbulence, and not win.

this is a opinion.....i think many of your forget what truly happens when a new coach comes in since we had the same 1 for 14 years....