Scheffler speculation picks up in Cincinnati

[broncofaninfla]

Scheffler speculation picks up in Cincinnati (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/16/scheffler-speculation-picks-up-in-cincinnati/)

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 16, 2010 3:37 PM ET
Pre-draft press conferences are usually vanilla, but Marvin Lewis let an interesting nugget loose when asked about the tight end position Friday.

"I think some of it could be addressed prior to the draft but I do feel we are where we are and we don't need to panic in any way," Lewis said.

Versatile (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100407/SPT0103/4080368/Miami+hockey+has+sense+of+history) Cincinnati Enquirer Bengals beat writer Joe Reedy speculates that Lewis could be referring to a possible trade (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/04/16/scheffler-officially-a-possibility/) for Tony Scheffler.

(Reedy also notes the team could re-sign Reggie Kelly or J.P. Foschi, but buries that at the bottom of the blog entry. Just like we would. Scheffler is more fun.)

There isn't a more logical suitor for Scheffler than Cincinnati, with New England a close second. The Bengals are desperate for a pass-catching receiver and have two draft picks in both the third and fourth round.

[Poet]

Cincinnati has an offense that hasn't used a tight end for pass catching in years. Bratowski is so unimaginative that it isn't even funny.

We just drafted Chase Coffman last year, and injuries and lack of blocking ability kept him off the field.

It's not that Scheff isn't a pretty good player, it's that he won't do anything in Cincinnati with Brat as his offensive coordinator.

I especially don't want the guy after he "couldn't wait for the season to be over."

On the bright side, if we do swing that trade it means we won't be drafting Jermaine Gresham!

[rationalfan]

I especially don't want the guy after he "couldn't wait for the season to be over."

but don't you realize it was all mcd's fault?

[getlynched47]

From McDaniels' mouth via his life press conference:


We have not talked to the Bengals. I can say that much

[Poet]

but don't you realize it was all mcd's fault?

For days!

[SOCALORADO.]

Cincinnati has an offense that hasn't used a tight end for pass catching in years. Bratowski is so unimaginative that it isn't even funny.

We just drafted Chase Coffman last year, and injuries and lack of blocking ability kept him off the field.

It's not that Scheff isn't a pretty good player, it's that he won't do anything in Cincinnati with Brat as his offensive coordinator.

I especially don't want the guy after he "couldn't wait for the season to be over."

On the bright side, if we do swing that trade it means we won't be drafting Jermaine Gresham!

I dont care, if DEN can swing a 3rd or 4th, then do it.
DEN needs line help, and those rounds are where they will find quality linemen.

[Lonestar]

HEy Josh get what you can for this quitter.

[Magnificent Seven]

The Cincinnati Enquirer believes the Cincinnati Bengals may be preparing to trade for Denver Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler.

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said that the team’s need for a tight end could be addressed before the draft. Scheffler is the top tight end on the market and he signed his restricted free agency tender this week to help expedite a trade. He was often in the doghouse with first-year coach Josh McDaniels in 2009 and was benched for the final game of the season for accountability issues. But McDaniels said Friday during his pre-draft press conference that the Broncos have not talked to the Bengals about Scheffler.

The Broncos want a third-round pick for Scheffler, who is a fine field-stretching receiver. The Bengals have two picks in the third and fourth rounds. They have compensatory picks in each round. Those two choices can’t be dealt, though.

The Chiefs are thinking about using Glenn Dorsey at nose tackle. Hey, if it means getting production out of the No. 5 overall pick in the 2008 draft, the Chiefs have to consider it.

The Broncos are open to trading down in the draft. The Broncos already have three picks in the first 45 choices. Denver will be major power brokers during the draft.

Are the Raiders moving away from being a zone-blocking offense? If so, that may mean new offensive coordinator Hue Jackson has more influence than head coach Tom Cable. That is never a good sign for a coach’s job security.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/12176/evening-notes-scheffler-update

[WARHORSE]

Scheffler ought to be happy with the other malcontents in Bengals Zoo.


If they wont gimme a third, then give us your second at 54 and we'll give you Scheff and our third.


That leaves us with three seconds and a first in the first two days.


Thank you Scheffler, and please dont leave anything so you'll never have to come back to Denver ever again unless its to get a spanking by Josh.

[nevcraw]

Scheffler ought to be happy with the other malcontents in Bengals Zoo.


If they wont gimme a third, then give us your second at 54 and we'll give you Scheff and our third.


That leaves us with three seconds and a first in the first two days.


Thank you Scheffler, and please dont leave anything so you'll never have to come back to Denver ever again unless its to get a spanking by Josh.

YEAH!! You tell em' WAR. All you talented players - get the hell out.. me War and Josh don't want you because we believe grown men to need to follow another like sheep..

good lord dude - get some perspective..

Scheftler played hard for the Broncos. sorry to see another talented player be vilified and run out the door.
you sheep will run out scapegoats.

[Broncolingus]

I have no doubt (s)Chef will be an all pro for the next 4-6 years - easy, get the Bengals deep into the playoffs if not the Superbowl, and absolutely love Cincy and life in general, rasing his family there for the rest of his life, basking in the 'glory' of all that he is and accomplished for the city and team just as John Elway has in Denver...

[honz]

Scheffler sucks and I never liked him.

[Lancane]

Scheffler sucks and I never liked him.

You don't like anybody! :D

[TXBRONC]

You don't like anybody! :D

I'm beginning to wonder if honz even likes himself. :D

[nevcraw]

HEy Josh get what you can for this quitter.

Get what you can for the quitter who who you tried to dump last year 2 weeks after taking the job because your genius offense has yet to figure out what to do with a TE.

It just dawned on me that our beloved coach maybe the poor man's Mike Martz.

[Italianmobstr7]

I've always liked Scheffler, but he threw a hissy fit when we got rid of Cutler, and he also was quoted saying "I can't wait for this season to be over." I don't want players on my team who don't want to "win a mother ******* game!" I want players who want to make the playoffs, and who want to play hard no matter the circumstances. Thanks for the memories Tony, but good riddance.

[Shazam!]

AUUUUGHH! What will Denver do without Scheffler?!?!

[Italianmobstr7]

Get what you can for the quitter who who you tried to dump last year 2 weeks after taking the job because your genius offense has yet to figure out what to do with a TE.

It just dawned on me that our beloved coach maybe the poor man's Mike Martz.

We used Tony just fine last year. The problem is that we want players that WANT to be in Denver. We want players who play for the TEAM and not themselves. Tony can **** after what he said last year. He might as well of spit in all of our faces when he decided he "couldn't wait for the season to be over" in the middle of a ******* playoff race!

[underrated29]

I've always liked Scheffler, but he threw a hissy fit when we got rid of Cutler, and he also was quoted saying "I can't wait for this season to be over." I don't want players on my team who don't want to "win a mother ******* game!" I want players who want to make the playoffs, and who want to play hard no matter the circumstances. Thanks for the memories Tony, but good riddance.





But can you blame him?? If I was on a hockey team and I wasnt getting the puck, because the plays were never designed to go to me, or my QB cant get me the puck even when I am wide open. I would be a little pissed off too.

Now if we are winning then I dont care what my role is. I would prefer to see action, but if we are winning then i will keep my mouth shut. However, when we are losing and getting blown out and cant even score 20 points I would want out too.....

Not saying what he did was right, but there is no way he wants to be here. Why would he. We dont utilize his skills and our offense was anemic. I would want out too.

[Davii]

I will cheer for whatever players are here when the season begins. I still don't understand what Scheff did to get benched the final game and to get on JMcD's bad side. Did I miss a news story or something?

[Italianmobstr7]

I will cheer for whatever players are here when the season begins. I still don't understand what Scheff did to get benched the final game and to get on JMcD's bad side. Did I miss a news story or something?

Yeah. He was ratted out by our locker room leaders for saying "I can't wait for the season to be over" right before the last game of the season which had playoff implications.

[Davii]

Threads merged folks.

[Italianmobstr7]

But can you blame him?? If I was on a hockey team and I wasnt getting the puck, because the plays were never designed to go to me, or my QB cant get me the puck even when I am wide open. I would be a little pissed off too.

Now if we are winning then I dont care what my role is. I would prefer to see action, but if we are winning then i will keep my mouth shut. However, when we are losing and getting blown out and cant even score 20 points I would want out too.....

Not saying what he did was right, but there is no way he wants to be here. Why would he. We dont utilize his skills and our offense was anemic. I would want out too.

Yes I can blame him. We had a shot at the playoffs. He had good games here and there. 2 that stick out are vs San Diego and vs New England. I didn't see Daniel Graham crying about not getting the ball, or Eddie Royal bitching because they weren't getting the ball. We were in the middle of a playoff race. He quit on the team, not the other way around. BTW, I don't think I can name 1 instance where he was just wide open and we decided not to throw to him because the play wasn't designed that way. I watch every game, and every play and I don't believe I saw that 1 time. If he didn't get the ball it's because of Orton, not because of McDaniels. McD can call a play, but Orton decides who gets the ball.

[broncobryce]

He had a beautiful catch in the end zone against the sparklers, and that long catch and run to seal it. I like him, but I'm in the "if you don't want to be here, ****" crowd.

[Medford Bronco]

Cincinnati has an offense that hasn't used a tight end for pass catching in years. Bratowski is so unimaginative that it isn't even funny.

We just drafted Chase Coffman last year, and injuries and lack of blocking ability kept him off the field.

It's not that Scheff isn't a pretty good player, it's that he won't do anything in Cincinnati with Brat as his offensive coordinator.

I especially don't want the guy after he "couldn't wait for the season to be over."

On the bright side, if we do swing that trade it means we won't be drafting Jermaine Gresham!

Come on you did not love Rodney Holman back in the day :lol:

PS I had him and Esasiason (sp) on my team back in like 1990 or 91 I think.

pre internet, when you had to figure your scores in the newspaper and no autoupates:eek::laugh:

boy i feel old :shocked:

[nevcraw]

We used Tony just fine last year. The problem is that we want players that WANT to be in Denver. We want players who play for the TEAM and not themselves. Tony can **** after what he said last year. He might as well of spit in all of our faces when he decided he "couldn't wait for the season to be over" in the middle of a ******* playoff race!

please..

first of all - find the Scheftler quote you keep throwing around you like you know something.. pure hearsay and rumor.. but even if he did say it - you have zero undertanding of the context of this frustration but judge away..

Dude had every right to be frustrated - He was on the block the minute mini martz became coach. and he was hardly used just like the other hold over studs - Royal, Stokely & hillis.
It was rumored that stokely was none to please too..

[broncobryce]

Naw, if he was mini-martz, he would be in love with Cutler's ROCKET arm.

[dogfish]

I have no doubt (s)Chef will be an all pro for the next 4-6 years - easy, get the Bengals deep into the playoffs if not the Superbowl, and absolutely love Cincy and life in general, rasing his family there for the rest of his life, basking in the 'glory' of all that he is and accomplished for the city and team just as John Elway has in Denver...

whoa, lingus. . . celebrate friday with a little extra sarcasm in yer coffee?

[Lancane]

We really don't need a receiving tight end, they are used as blockers, H-Back and Fullbacks in the Pro-Spread and Graham is fine if we call a tight end set. Quinn could be better or worse, we have no idea as of yet, but till then...

But if we can get a pick for him that helped us move to get Pouncey, Tebow or even a defensive playmaker...then so be it. We need another Sharpe, great at catching and just as great at blocking, but there are not many of those these days.

[TXBRONC]

We really don't need a receiving tight end, they are used as blockers, H-Back and Fullbacks in the Pro-Spread and Graham is fine if we call a tight end set. Quinn could be better or worse, we have no idea as of yet, but till then...

But if we can get a pick for him that helped us move to get Pouncey, Tebow or even a defensive playmaker...then so be it. We need another Sharpe, great at catching and just as great at blocking, but there are not many of those these days.

I don't know if it's completely accurate looking at Watson's production he's get somewhere between 4 to 6 touchdowns a year. That tells me while the receptions totals are not huge by any means he is being used as red zone target. I would bet that's as much by design as it is the guy behind center.

[Lancane]

I don't know if it's completely accurate looking at Watson's production he's get somewhere between 4 to 6 touchdowns a year. That tells me while the receptions totals are not huge by any means he is being used as red zone target. I would bet that's as much by design as it is the guy behind center.

That's touchdowns though TX, something everyone of the Broncos has had trouble with give Marshall...when you look at the numbers the only one close to him was Stokely with four. It's more or less using tight end set's in the red zone and getting the ball to them. With how bad our scoring offense is, we might be expecting too much from the tight ends we do have.

[TXBRONC]

That's touchdowns though TX, something everyone of the Broncos has had trouble with give Marshall...when you look at the numbers the only one close to him was Stokely with four. It's more or less using tight end set's in the red zone and getting the ball to them. With how bad our scoring offense is, we might be expecting too much from the tight ends we do have.

What I'm getting it looks like the offense is a designed to have tight end be a part of the red zone offense. I think our struggles with scoring last season had less to do with quality of the receivers and more to do with limitations of our quarterback.

[Lonestar]

please..

first of all - find the Scheftler quote you keep throwing around you like you know something.. pure hearsay and rumor.. but even if he did say it - you have zero undertanding of the context of this frustration but judge away..

Dude had every right to be frustrated - He was on the block the minute mini martz became coach. and he was hardly used just like the other hold over studs - Royal, Stokely & hillis.
It was rumored that stokely was none to please too..

Had he took the trouble to learn how to passably block he just may have seen time on the filed.

[Lonestar]

We really don't need a receiving tight end, they are used as blockers, H-Back and Fullbacks in the Pro-Spread and Graham is fine if we call a tight end set. Quinn could be better or worse, we have no idea as of yet, but till then...

But if we can get a pick for him that helped us move to get Pouncey, Tebow or even a defensive playmaker...then so be it. We need another Sharpe, great at catching and just as great at blocking, but there are not many of those these days.

yes we need a Sharpe but not the younger sharpe but the one that later in his career could do something more than whiff block at the LOS. Now down field as a safety or CB I would not like to see him coming.

[Ravage!!!]

had he taken the trouble? I thought if the coaches needed/wanted him to learn to block.. and/or get better at blocking.... They would have made time to TEACH him to block. How does one "take the trouble" to learn to block?

[Lonestar]

had he taken the trouble? I thought if the coaches needed/wanted him to learn to block.. and/or get better at blocking.... They would have made time to TEACH him to block. How does one "take the trouble" to learn to block?

Well you can lead a horse to water, you can teach blocking techniques, but you can't make him block at the LOS in games like Josh wants out of his TE's.

Josh has virtually no use for a TE that can't play 4 downs. being a 3rd down TE for catching is a waste of a roster spot.

If you look back at the NE drafting almost every year they drafted TE's.

We saw one picked up last year as a Blocking TE. PErhaps TS would have taken notice of that. But no he wanted the year to end so he could leave DEN.

[dogfish]

had he taken the trouble? I thought if the coaches needed/wanted him to learn to block.. and/or get better at blocking.... They would have made time to TEACH him to block. How does one "take the trouble" to learn to block?

please, you know they taught him how to block-- maybe JR phrased that badly, but no WAY a pro team isn't teaching their TEs to block. . .

don't tell me you believe that, rav. . .

blocking is about 80% attitude anyway. . . scheffler should be ashamed that his 250+ pound carcass can't hold a candle to skinny-ass eddie mac. . .

[DenBronx]

please..

first of all - find the Scheftler quote you keep throwing around you like you know something.. pure hearsay and rumor.. but even if he did say it - you have zero undertanding of the context of this frustration but judge away..

Dude had every right to be frustrated - He was on the block the minute mini martz became coach. and he was hardly used just like the other hold over studs - Royal, Stokely & hillis.
It was rumored that stokely was none to please too..


thanks for clearing that up for the noobs.

rumors seem to become stone since joshy boy has been in town.

[DenBronx]

blocking is about 80% attitude anyway. . . scheffler should be ashamed that his 250+ pound carcass can't hold a candle to skinny-ass eddie mac. . .


hey....i'm not too sure many people can...eddie mac was a blocking beast.

[Italianmobstr7]

please..

first of all - find the Scheftler quote you keep throwing around you like you know something.. pure hearsay and rumor.. but even if he did say it - you have zero undertanding of the context of this frustration but judge away..

Dude had every right to be frustrated - He was on the block the minute mini martz became coach. and he was hardly used just like the other hold over studs - Royal, Stokely & hillis.
It was rumored that stokely was none to please too..

If you're so pissed about everything the Broncos are doing, then why are you still supporting them? Or not supporting them I should say... If you don't support anything that THE GUY WHO IS RUNNING THE TEAM is doing, then what's the point of being a fan of the team? All they're doing is pissing you off. Learn to deal with McDaniels being the coach and things changing in Denver, or at least stop bitching about it. I'm throwing the quote around that was mentioned in articles and by "Insiders." Regardless of what the quote was, McD said it was because of "attitude problems." So obviously he must have really struck a nerve to bring him to the point of being benched in the most important game of the year to that point. Scheffler may have had a reason to be frustrated, but so did EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE TEAM. We had won 2 of our last 7 games. Everyone was frustrated. No one else quit on the team though (maybe Brandon Marshall but thats TBD). Believe me, McDaniels isn't in this business to get rid of our best players or to try and lose games that make us miss the playoffs. He's had a reason for every move he's made. Hope you get used to being pissed because McD is going to be here for a while...

[Ziggy]

Great post Mobster, but people are going to complain regardless of what McD does. Some folks just can't be happy unless they have a reason to be unhappy.

[Italianmobstr7]

Great post Mobster, but people are going to complain regardless of what McD does. Some folks just can't be happy unless they have a reason to be unhappy.

I know, I just get tired of it man. My Dad is a fan like some on this board. Our team can do no right, all our players suck, our coach sucks blah blah blah, but he's been a fan since 1960. Along with my Grandpa and older brother. I get pissed at things too. I never wanted Cutler to leave, and I never wanted Marshall to leave, but you get over it because it happens all the time. Bitching about it and complaining and beating the dead horse doesn't fix anything. It's not going to bring the players back and it's not going to change what's happened. Might as well learn to live with it and support the team. I love the Denver Broncos. Through thick and thin I will support them. I spend a ton of money every year on new gear, NFL Sunday ticket, 1 trip to Denver to see a game amongst other things. No reason to do all that stuff if I'm just going to be pissed off by every move they make and hold a grudge about it. Wish more people could think the way I do. Our fan base would be much happier and much more supportive. Glad there's still a ton out there that do think like me because it would suck to go to a game this year and have everybody bitching the whole time!

[Davii]

If you're so pissed about everything the Broncos are doing, then why are you still supporting them? Or not supporting them I should say... If you don't support anything that THE GUY WHO IS RUNNING THE TEAM is doing, then what's the point of being a fan of the team? All they're doing is pissing you off. Learn to deal with McDaniels being the coach and things changing in Denver, or at least stop bitching about it. I'm throwing the quote around that was mentioned in articles and by "Insiders." Regardless of what the quote was, McD said it was because of "attitude problems." So obviously he must have really struck a nerve to bring him to the point of being benched in the most important game of the year to that point. Scheffler may have had a reason to be frustrated, but so did EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE TEAM. We had won 2 of our last 7 games. Everyone was frustrated. No one else quit on the team though (maybe Brandon Marshall but thats TBD). Believe me, McDaniels isn't in this business to get rid of our best players or to try and lose games that make us miss the playoffs. He's had a reason for every move he's made. Hope you get used to being pissed because McD is going to be here for a while...

Great post!

Some people need to sit back and take a deep breath. Whether they agree with JMcD or not, he is the one in charge. He knows that not only does his job in Denver rely on the product, but his future as a head coach anywhere does. If his product turns out to be horrid, he won't continue to be the coach.

He wants what's best for himself, so therefore, he wants what he feels is best for the team.

I would be willing to give any coach at least 3 years to see how his product turns out. If we haven't made the playoffs, and haven't made big strides after the 2011 regular season, then I will begin calling for Josh to be fired.

Until then, he has my trust and support.

[Lonestar]

I know, I just get tired of it man. My Dad is a fan like some on this board. Our team can do no right, all our players suck, our coach sucks blah blah blah, but he's been a fan since 1960. Along with my Grandpa and older brother. I get pissed at things too. I never wanted Cutler to leave, and I never wanted Marshall to leave, but you get over it because it happens all the time. Bitching about it and complaining and beating the dead horse doesn't fix anything. It's not going to bring the players back and it's not going to change what's happened. Might as well learn to live with it and support the team. I love the Denver Broncos. Through thick and thin I will support them. I spend a ton of money every year on new gear, NFL Sunday ticket, 1 trip to Denver to see a game amongst other things. No reason to do all that stuff if I'm just going to be pissed off by every move they make and hold a grudge about it. Wish more people could think the way I do. Our fan base would be much happier and much more supportive. Glad there's still a ton out there that do think like me because it would suck to go to a game this year and have everybody bitching the whole time!


I'm kind of surprised your dad being an OLD timer does not take most of what has happened over the past few years with a grain of salt. considering what it was like back then.

When I get frustrated with the team I remember back to when the team really sucked top to bottom, with little rays of hope only until about the 4th game of the year when we realized that even with some new draft choices we were not going to be albeit to play with the raiders, bolts or KC and win many games.

By then the favorite saying in the stands was wait till next year. We could only hope that we could spoil a few play off teams hopes at that point.

I to get frustrated with all the negativity from our members. good post overall.

[Ziggy]

Great post Mobster. I did a poll a while back to see who was in McD's corner, and it surprised me. Most of the people on this forum are. I think that the folks who like to complain post more, and use this forum as a vent. I also think that a good portion of the folks who are happy with McD get tired of the same old complaints being posted and just frequent less often. It works that way in the real world also. Unhappy folks usually make the most noise, figuring that if they're going to be miserable, everyone else should be too.

[Tempus Fugit]

please..

first of all - find the Scheftler quote you keep throwing around you like you know something.. pure hearsay and rumor.. but even if he did say it - you have zero undertanding of the context of this frustration but judge away..

Dude had every right to be frustrated - He was on the block the minute mini martz became coach. and he was hardly used just like the other hold over studs - Royal, Stokely & hillis.
It was rumored that stokely was none to please too..

Wait a minute. Your post is confusing me. Others can't post about things because it's nothing but hearsay and rumor, and they have no understanding of the context of frustration. You, however, can post things that are nothing but hearsay and rumor, and can claim the understanding of the context of the frustration?

Which one of the Broncos 53 are you?

[Tempus Fugit]

What I'm getting it looks like the offense is a designed to have tight end be a part of the red zone offense. I think our struggles with scoring last season had less to do with quality of the receivers and more to do with limitations of our quarterback.

The Patriots would bring Vrabel in to play tight end at the goal line, as well. It's not that the Patriots/McDaniels system doesn't use the tight end (Graham and Scheffler combined for 59 catches), it's that the tight end is generally a lower priority because the slot receiver is running a lot of the same routes.

[nevcraw]

If you're so pissed about everything the Broncos are doing, then why are you still supporting them? Or not supporting them I should say... If you don't support anything that THE GUY WHO IS RUNNING THE TEAM is doing, then what's the point of being a fan of the team? All they're doing is pissing you off. Learn to deal with McDaniels being the coach and things changing in Denver, or at least stop bitching about it. I'm throwing the quote around that was mentioned in articles and by "Insiders." Regardless of what the quote was, McD said it was because of "attitude problems." So obviously he must have really struck a nerve to bring him to the point of being benched in the most important game of the year to that point. Scheffler may have had a reason to be frustrated, but so did EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE TEAM. We had won 2 of our last 7 games. Everyone was frustrated. No one else quit on the team though (maybe Brandon Marshall but thats TBD). Believe me, McDaniels isn't in this business to get rid of our best players or to try and lose games that make us miss the playoffs. He's had a reason for every move he's made. Hope you get used to being pissed because McD is going to be here for a while...

1. um ok.. here's the if you don't support some of the moves the head coach of the team you followed since you were a kid - you are not a fan..
Mcd is not the Denver Broncos, he's only a part - and do yourself a favor & not tell anyone how to be a fan..

2. He didn't quit on the team, he was benched. Mine is very different viewpoint to yours. here's the TE version.
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14108873?source=email

3. I would love to believe you but you are just guessing on the intentions in what this guy is doing. He may not be doing anything right and building a train reck or he could be building a dynasty - we can both only guess, no reason to suspect your guess is worth believing.
What I see is a clear talent drain based on personal conflicts. Coach's should be able to work with all type of attitudes and personalities. Mcd has yet to prove whatsover he can do this.. There is alot more evidence he can't that there is he knows how to build a winning team.

BTW - your Broncos "insider" is that Hack Josina Anderson
http://community.kdvr.com/_Agent-Reacts-to-Broncos-TE-Tony-Schefflers-benching/BLOG/1687965/96399.html
hope that works out fo your team information needs.

[nevcraw]

Wait a minute. Your post is confusing me. Others can't post about things because it's nothing but hearsay and rumor, and they have no understanding of the context of frustration. You, however, can post things that are nothing but hearsay and rumor, and can claim the understanding of the context of the frustration?

Which one of the Broncos 53 are you?

well now we are both confused! thanks a lot!! :D :laugh:

[Lancane]

Great post Mobster. I did a poll a while back to see who was in McD's corner, and it surprised me. Most of the people on this forum are. I think that the folks who like to complain post more, and use this forum as a vent. I also think that a good portion of the folks who are happy with McD get tired of the same old complaints being posted and just frequent less often. It works that way in the real world also. Unhappy folks usually make the most noise, figuring that if they're going to be miserable, everyone else should be too.

Zig, since McDaniels entrance as the Head Coach people have had hope, only to see what was promising at one point be completely eradicated. The poll on one fan site does not speak for the mass of the fandom. Actually when you read comments on other sites, such as nfl.com, denverpost.com, sportingnews.com, on and on. Many of the comments are negative regarding certain issues, they do not always reflect McDaniels as a coach or as a human being. Just cause I hate Orton, doesn't mean I think he is a shitty person. The same goes for McDaniels, he has done enough to garner a lot of hate and malcontent towards him, but people still want to believe... That's the biggest misconception of the issue. Those of us who speak out the loudest against him don't want him to fail, but he's failing nonetheless. 'Believing is seeing', 'What you see is what you get' and I could go on, the point of such quotes are simple, if we see promise then we shall believe, but if not then why place our hope where we see no promise?

I truly hope that McDaniels has a killer draft, and not one like last year. But if he has a questionable draft with the issues he's already created that malcontent is only going to get worse, the hate towards him will grow, the same will be said if he can not produce on the field. And it's hard, it's really hard to back a guy who's best two seasons had him with elite talent, yet we don't have that elite talent, so we're putting faith in a man who has shown that nothing without such and when we see him doing his best to rid the team of those type players it will open up questions.

Before I end this, you and Mobster, even Jr. and Top should remember this...Reeves was a good coach, but the fans wanted him gone before Elway. The majority of the fandom were sick and ready to be rid of Phillips within two years...Shanahan was the most beloved coach in franchise history (fact) and because his lack to rebuild through the draft or improve, till recently likewise caused a lot of digruntled disagreements against him. McDaniels is not proving to be any better thus far, till he does...it will not change, it will get worse.

[Lonestar]

Danny R a great coach ahahahaha.

Yep he won a lot of games went to a lot of SB's and got our asses kicked each time.

His constant lousy play calling with medicore players on O excepting John. Two runs and then John had to pull us out of the ass crack the running game put us in.

If he had not had John he would have been run out of town long before.

While our D was decent for the most part our skill position players were medicore.

No danny was not a HOF coach and John would have had a hell of a lot less come from behind wins had they had some decent play calling and star power.

Talk about not being able to get along with your QB he was the leader in that area.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[rcsodak]

Cincinnati has an offense that hasn't used a tight end for pass catching in years. Bratowski is so unimaginative that it isn't even funny.

We just drafted Chase Coffman last year, and injuries and lack of blocking ability kept him off the field.

It's not that Scheff isn't a pretty good player, it's that he won't do anything in Cincinnati with Brat as his offensive coordinator.

I especially don't want the guy after he "couldn't wait for the season to be over."

On the bright side, if we do swing that trade it means we won't be drafting Jermaine Gresham!
So drafting a BETTER TE than what you could trade for, isn't brighter? :confused:

You usually make great sense, king, but ya got me scratching my head on that one. *wink*

Gresh is a freakin' animal. I wish McD would have the extra pick for him.

[rcsodak]

But can you blame him?? If I was on a hockey team and I wasnt getting the puck, because the plays were never designed to go to me, or my QB cant get me the puck even when I am wide open. I would be a little pissed off too.

Now if we are winning then I dont care what my role is. I would prefer to see action, but if we are winning then i will keep my mouth shut. However, when we are losing and getting blown out and cant even score 20 points I would want out too.....

Not saying what he did was right, but there is no way he wants to be here. Why would he. We dont utilize his skills and our offense was anemic. I would want out too.

I think that'd hurt like HELL, especially in the winter!

[T.K.O.]

nolan.....quit
cutler.....demanded a trade
marshall.......repeatedly said he wanted to be traded and was granted his request.he and mcD have said their "issues" have been overblown in the press and publc opinion.
both seem to be happy with the split.
just saying it's insane to take 3 situations in which we have little real perspective and come to a conclusion that it's all based on 1 guy's inability to get along with"CERTAIN PERSONALITY TRAITS"
its a brutal job in a brutal field.....but there are alot more players who seem to like his coaching style and the passion he brings to the team than the very few who don't:D

[Northman]

Danny R a great coach ahahahaha.

Yep he won a lot of games went to a lot of SB's and got our asses kicked each time.

His constant lousy play calling with medicore players on O excepting John. Two runs and then John had to pull us out of the ass crack the running game put us in.

If he had not had John he would have been run out of town long before.

While our D was decent for the most part our skill position players were medicore.

No danny was not a HOF coach and John would have had a hell of a lot less come from behind wins had they had some decent play calling and star power.

Talk about not being able to get along with your QB he was the leader in that area.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.


Well, he did manage to get to 4 SB's regardless so he was doing something right at some point. Sure, Elway was very instrumental in 3 of those but Reeves was still decent. But his conservative playcalling began to wane on me as a fan and when tried to trade John he lost me completely.

[TXBRONC]

Well, he did manage to get to 4 SB's regardless so he was doing something right at some point. Sure, Elway was very instrumental in 3 of those but Reeves was still decent. But his conservative playcalling began to wane on me as a fan and when tried to trade John he lost me completely.

Exactly, for all of Reeves shortcomings I think its inaccurate to say he stunk as coach. He was a good coach just I think Schottenheimer is a good coach they just had shortcomings that kept from reaching the pinnacle.

[Italianmobstr7]

1. um ok.. here's the if you don't support some of the moves the head coach of the team you followed since you were a kid - you are not a fan..
Mcd is not the Denver Broncos, he's only a part - and do yourself a favor & not tell anyone how to be a fan..

2. He didn't quit on the team, he was benched. Mine is very different viewpoint to yours. here's the TE version.
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14108873?source=email

3. I would love to believe you but you are just guessing on the intentions in what this guy is doing. He may not be doing anything right and building a train reck or he could be building a dynasty - we can both only guess, no reason to suspect your guess is worth believing.
What I see is a clear talent drain based on personal conflicts. Coach's should be able to work with all type of attitudes and personalities. Mcd has yet to prove whatsover he can do this.. There is alot more evidence he can't that there is he knows how to build a winning team.

BTW - your Broncos "insider" is that Hack Josina Anderson
http://community.kdvr.com/_Agent-Reacts-to-Broncos-TE-Tony-Schefflers-benching/BLOG/1687965/96399.html
hope that works out fo your team information needs.

1. I wouldn't have to tell you how to be a fan if you were indeed a BETTER fan. Stop criticizing EVERYTHING that our coach is doing and get over it. He's the biggest part of the Broncos outside of Pat Bowlen because everything goes through him. I'll tell you this, he's a hell of a lot more of a Bronco than Cutler or Marshall are...

2. He was benched because of his "attitude." Maybe he shouldn't have been bitching in the locker room. Obviously whatever was said was enough to make other players rat him out to the coach and get him benched.

3. Coaches don't go to teams to try and mess them up and run them into the ground. McD's intentions are to win, not to lose. That's clear to anyone who knows ANYTHING about the NFL.

4. I don't care who reported what, it was reported that's what he said. If that's not what he said, then that's fine but whatever he said was enough to get him benched.

I've never been one to call out another fan on how they SUPPORT the team, but you're not supporting anything. You're bashing the team, the coach, and really the whole FO who help make decisions. You're siding with players instead of the organization. The players you're siding with are no longer Broncos, and they're no longer Broncos for a reason. I support the Denver Broncos current players, not some players who USED to play here. I'm not saying it's not okay to criticize some decisions, or be upset about players leaving. My problem is with the "fans" who are literally criticizing EVERYTHING that's being done by the front office. I've been upset with decisions, or players before. You get over it at some point and you support the team, not bash it at every chance you get.

[Bosco]

please..

first of all - find the Scheftler quote you keep throwing around you like you know something.. pure hearsay and rumor.. You realize this is something he said to teammates, not in an interview, right?


but even if he did say it - you have zero undertanding of the context of this frustration but judge away.. Pretty hard to justify wanting the season to end while your teammates are fighting for a playoff spot, don't you think? While we may not know the context of how it was said, we do know that a bunch of well respect vets were offended by it to the point they approached McDaniels and asked him to deal with it.


Dude had every right to be frustrated - He was on the block the minute mini martz became coach. No he wasn't.


and he was hardly used just like the other hold over studs - Royal, Stokely & hillis.
2007 - 49 catches in 7 starts
2008 - 40 catches in 7 starts
2009 - 31 catches in 9 starts

His production had dropped by 9 catches a year in both 2008 and 2009, yet McD gave him 9 starts, a career high. He was used as much and arguably more than he was with Shanahan.

Also, Scheffler and Stokley aren't even close to being "studs". Both of them are backup/role players. Stokley got his share of looks despite being banged up all year.


It was rumored that stokely was none to please too.. The only dissent I heard from Stokley was over the Mike Leach being released.


We really don't need a receiving tight end, they are used as blockers, H-Back and Fullbacks in the Pro-Spread and Graham is fine if we call a tight end set. Quinn could be better or worse, we have no idea as of yet, but till then... Partially true. It's not an offense where the tight end is going to 70-80 balls a year like we had with Shannon Sharpe, but McD made pretty good use of Ben Watson when he was healthy.

[Lonestar]

Well, he did manage to get to 4 SB's regardless so he was doing something right at some point. Sure, Elway was very instrumental in 3 of those but Reeves was still decent. But his conservative playcalling began to wane on me as a fan and when tried to trade John he lost me completely.


Yep he was lucky enough to have John as his QB and then unlucky to have John opposing him as a QB.

He got his ass kicked in 4 super bowls as a HC. If he did not have JOHN I doubt seriously he would have made it as long as he did.

I have always wondered how many of marinos passing records wool have been Johns had reeves had a clue on how to run an Offense.

[Ziggy]

Yep he was lucky enough to have John as his QB and then unlucky to have John opposing him as a QB.

He got his ass kicked in 4 super bowls as a HC. If he did not have JOHN I doubt seriously he would have made it as long as he did.

I have always wondered how many of maroons passing records wool have been Johns had reeves had a clue on how to run an Offense.

I'd say less than half. John was the better QB, but Marino was a better pure passer.

[Northman]

Yep he was lucky enough to have John as his QB and then unlucky to have John opposing him as a QB.

He got his ass kicked in 4 super bowls as a HC. If he did not have JOHN I doubt seriously he would have made it as long as he did.

I have always wondered how many of maroons passing records wool have been Johns had reeves had a clue on how to run an Offense.

Having a John, no John is irrelevant and only speculation on your part whether or not he would of still got there. Especially considering he took a Falcon team that really had no business being in the SB. Despite who you have at Qb you still need to have a coach to help you get you there.

[Lonestar]

Having a John, no John is irrelevant and only speculation on your part whether or not he would of still got there. Especially considering he took a Falcon team that really had no business being in the SB. Despite who you have at Qb you still need to have a coach to help you get you there.


Yep you have to have a coach, but without JOHN this team would have never been in those Superblows, We both know that.

He was a decent coach but like all of them was set in his ways and oblivious to the talent around him
being that he was great RB he had his own ideas on how to coach a team., if he did not have John to pull his ass out of the fire on 3rd down because of his sad running game as well as really sad OLINE. SOrry but he could not see the forest for the trees IMHO about how to coach superstar, he had in John.

[nevcraw]

nolan.....quit
cutler.....demanded a trade
marshall.......repeatedly said he wanted to be traded and was granted his request.he and mcD have said their "issues" have been overblown in the press and publc opinion.
both seem to be happy with the split.
just saying it's insane to take 3 situations in which we have little real perspective and come to a conclusion that it's all based on 1 guy's inability to get along with"CERTAIN PERSONALITY TRAITS"
its a brutal job in a brutal field.....but there are alot more players who seem to like his coaching style and the passion he brings to the team than the very few who don't:D

I never was too good at math but I did learn a term called: Common Denominator

[Lonestar]

I'd say less than half. John was the better QB, but Marino was a better pure passer.

I'm not all that sure had John had a decent group of skill players around him in the beginning I think he would have had a lot of the records.

Yes Marino was a better pure passer but John had a lot of the records with how many years with Reeves tying his arm behind his back.

[nevcraw]

1. I wouldn't have to tell you how to be a fan if you were indeed a BETTER fan. Stop criticizing EVERYTHING that our coach is doing and get over it. He's the biggest part of the Broncos outside of Pat Bowlen because everything goes through him. I'll tell you this, he's a hell of a lot more of a Bronco than Cutler or Marshall are...

2. He was benched because of his "attitude." Maybe he shouldn't have been bitching in the locker room. Obviously whatever was said was enough to make other players rat him out to the coach and get him benched.

3. Coaches don't go to teams to try and mess them up and run them into the ground. McD's intentions are to win, not to lose. That's clear to anyone who knows ANYTHING about the NFL.

4. I don't care who reported what, it was reported that's what he said. If that's not what he said, then that's fine but whatever he said was enough to get him benched.

I've never been one to call out another fan on how they SUPPORT the team, but you're not supporting anything. You're bashing the team, the coach, and really the whole FO who help make decisions. You're siding with players instead of the organization. The players you're siding with are no longer Broncos, and they're no longer Broncos for a reason. I support the Denver Broncos current players, not some players who USED to play here. I'm not saying it's not okay to criticize some decisions, or be upset about players leaving. My problem is with the "fans" who are literally criticizing EVERYTHING that's being done by the front office. I've been upset with decisions, or players before. You get over it at some point and you support the team, not bash it at every chance you get.

For love of god man - feel free to ignore me.. In fact I hope you do. but for the record - I have been highly critical of the talent drain on our team and do call into question the Coach's ability to be flexible. - I would hardly characterize that as everything.

You get all emotional in reaction to my posts or similar because I suspect you too are wondering if we have hitched our wagon to a bum. Maybe not - I'm just trying on the giant speculation hat that is constantly passed around the forum. Maybe you Italian Mobster are a transcending figure who absords the rhetoric and double speak about team and system and sees the Super Bowl Dynasty that this team will become under the coach we have now's supreme guidance.
I'm just a bit more skeptical. But, a fanatatical lover, breather, worshiper, and to the day I die Denver Bronco believer nonetheless.
and to be clear if my skepticism is proven unfounded & everything turns out rosey - I will be chearing the loudest..
:salute:

[Italianmobstr7]

For love of god man - feel free to ignore me.. In fact I hope you do. but for the record - I have been highly critical of the talent drain on our team and do call into question the Coach's ability to be flexible. - I would hardly characterize that as everything.

You get all emotional in reaction to my posts or similar because I suspect you too are wondering if we have hitched our wagon to a bum. Maybe not - I'm just trying on the giant speculation hat that is constantly passed around the forum. Maybe you Italian Mobster are a transcending figure who absords the rhetoric and double speak about team and system and sees the Super Bowl Dynasty that this team will become under the coach we have now's supreme guidance.
I'm just a bit more skeptical. But, a fanatatical lover, breather, worshiper, and to the day I die Denver Bronco believer nonetheless.
and to be clear if my skepticism is proven unfounded & everything turns out rosey - I will be chearing the loudest..
:salute:

Good to know. You aren't making me emotional. I'm just annoyed in general with all the hate going on around Broncos Country. I just find it hard to rag on the head coach and still support the team, but were all different. I realize that people are upset about losing Cutler, Marshall, Hillis and now probably Scheffler, but outside of Hillis were any even really a surprise? Cutler last year was at first but after the way things went down it was obvious he was getting traded since he demanded a trade. After what happened with Marshall and Scheffler during week 17 it was fairly obvious that they weren't going to be here either. Does it suck losing a QB, WR and TE that were exciting to watch? Absolutely. But it's not like they got us to the playoffs. They didn't win us any super bowls. They didn't even get us to a winning record. The point I'm trying to make is that none of the players we've gotten rid of are irreplaceable. It may take a year or 2 to find a replacement but we will. We started 6-0 last year when people thought we were a 4-12 team. That's one of the many reasons i find it hard to not trust in McDaniels. I'm not claiming and never claimed that McD is building a dynasty in Denver, I'm just saying to give him more than 1 year before you disregard him completely. I literally don't care if he brings in 65 new players from last year to this year as long as we start winning and making the playoffs again. I think he has us headed in the right direction regardless of the star players he's gotten rid of. I'd rather have 3 different guys that want to be here than 3 that don't. The reason Marshall, Cutler and soon to be Scheffler aren't in Denver is because they chose not to be.

[Ravage!!!]

I hope people dont' feel we should simply close our eyes and follow our government leaders as much as they expect us to follow our Football team leaders.

There are a lot more 'leaders' in government, and a lot more smarter people in government, than there are in football.

Why should I simply support the coach/FO if I don't agree with what they are doing? Does that make me less of a fan when being critical? Does it make me less of a patriot if I continued to criticize the government? I believe thats how the nation was formed, and why it was formed. Discontent.

Right now, there is a lot of discontent with our current 'administration'... both in government, and in the Denver Broncos.

[Ravage!!!]

a year or two?

[Northman]

Yep you have to have a coach, but without JOHN this team would have never been in those Superblows, We both know that.

He was a decent coach but like all of them was set in his ways and oblivious to the talent around him
being that he was great RB he had his own ideas on how to coach a team., if he did not have John to pull his ass out of the fire on 3rd down because of his sad running game as well as really sad OLINE. SOrry but he could not see the forest for the trees IMHO about how to coach superstar, he had in John.

You said he was a decent coach and thats all i needed. Thank you. :coffee:

[Italianmobstr7]

a year or two?

Yes, a year or two. We might find Marshall's replacement this year. We may find Cutler's this year or next. We may already have Cutler's replacement in Brady Quinn. Love him all you want but Cutler is an interception machine. Marshall is a great player. He'll be hard to replace for sure, but who's to say Dez Bryant doesn't come in and match his production? And even if the players we get don't match the production of the players we lost, I don't care about their stats. I want our TEAM to win. As long as that's what's happening, then I'm fine with whoever it is we have to replace the players we've lost.

[dogfish]

sooo. . . i see fan card arguments and dan reeves. . .


anybody got any news on scheffler?

[Davii]

sooo. . . i see fan card arguments and dan reeves. . .


anybody got any news on scheffler?

No, just speculation.

If you were a REAL fan you wouldn't have to ask that question Dogfish, you'd just know, without even reading anything.

[dogfish]

No, just speculation.

If you were a REAL fan you wouldn't have to ask that question Dogfish, you'd just know, without even reading anything.

yea, i guess you got me there. . .


:soashamed:

[Poet]

I don't put much stock in the rumors. Odds are good that ML was referring to resigning Reggie Kelly or J.P. Foschi.

He's been heralding Coffman in press conferences recently.

[Lonestar]

You said he was a decent coach and thats all i needed. Thank you. :coffee:

Actually he was good coach IF he could have gotten past being uber conservative and gotten a decent QB coach in here earlier he would have won us some Lombardi's.

But his treatment of dealing with John and not having a lot of talent around him dropped him several notches from sainthood.

[Lonestar]

Yes, a year or two. We might find Marshall's replacement this year. We may find Cutler's this year or next. We may already have Cutler's replacement in Brady Quinn. Love him all you want but Cutler is an interception machine. Marshall is a great player. He'll be hard to replace for sure, but who's to say Dez Bryant doesn't come in and match his production? And even if the players we get don't match the production of the players we lost, I don't care about their stats. I want our TEAM to win. As long as that's what's happening, then I'm fine with whoever it is we have to replace the players we've lost.


THis is the area I do not get either .

It was plain that those players were not going to get us anything BUT pro bowl stats. they anted to do things there way and if the team was good great. or they wanted money as a primary goal and wins and stats well those were nice.

I'm not saying that someone should work free but frankly folks after a couple of million what more do you really need? If you do not blow it on wine women and song, 2-3 million invested wisely will bring some serious coin to live on for along time.

I've always been a team guy and hey if some one is a star and not a jerk then great for us.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I hope people dont' feel we should simply close our eyes and follow our government leaders as much as they expect us to follow our Football team leaders.

There are a lot more 'leaders' in government, and a lot more smarter people in government, than there are in football.

Why should I simply support the coach/FO if I don't agree with what they are doing? Does that make me less of a fan when being critical? Does it make me less of a patriot if I continued to criticize the government? I believe thats how the nation was formed, and why it was formed. Discontent.

Right now, there is a lot of discontent with our current 'administration'... both in government, and in the Denver Broncos.

Decent point except for the fact that those who make their determinations immediately w/o giving a reasonable amount of time to assess the pros and cons and the overall mark that the regime contributes is, well, idiocy.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

nolan.....quit
cutler.....demanded a trade
marshall.......repeatedly said he wanted to be traded and was granted his request.he and mcD have said their "issues" have been overblown in the press and publc opinion.
both seem to be happy with the split.
just saying it's insane to take 3 situations in which we have little real perspective and come to a conclusion that it's all based on 1 guy's inability to get along with"CERTAIN PERSONALITY TRAITS"
its a brutal job in a brutal field.....but there are alot more players who seem to like his coaching style and the passion he brings to the team than the very few who don't:D

You forgot about Dennison and Turner, they left also. I guess they are just a bunch of no-talent hack quitters, too.

To have your two best players on offense and a good portion of your coaching staff (three highly-respected coaches) all want to pursue further avenues tells me either:

a) they all just got a wild hair up their ass at the same time for different scenery

-or-

b) they don't like the new boss and wanted to get away from him.

Which one makes more sense? Honestly, you've seen the way McDaniels behaves in public, in interviews, at press conferences, and on the sidelines during games... is that the guy you'd want to work for? To me and a lot of others, he looks lot like an immature kid that goes way to far with all of his emotions. Happiness, anger, frustration, pride, he over-exaggerates all of them like a 10 year old would.

There's a fine line between competitive fire and passion, and just a good 'ol fashioned temper tantrum or "in your face" bravado. Personally, I think he leans more toward the latter than the former and to me, it's embarrassing.

[Zweems56]

You forgot about Dennison and Turner, they left also. I guess they are just a bunch of no-talent hack quitters, too.

To have your two best players on offense and a good portion of your coaching staff (three highly-respected coaches) all want to pursue further avenues tells me either:

a) they all just got a wild hair up their ass at the same time for different scenery

-or-

b) they don't like the new boss and wanted to get away from him.

Which one makes more sense? Honestly, you've seen the way McDaniels behaves in public, in interviews, at press conferences, and on the sidelines during games... is that the guy you'd want to work for? To me and a lot of others, he looks lot like an immature kid that goes way to far with all of his emotions. Happiness, anger, frustration, pride, he over-exaggerates all of them like a 10 year old would.

There's a fine line between competitive fire and passion, and just a good 'ol fashioned temper tantrum or "in your face" bravado. Personally, I think he leans more toward the latter than the former and to me, it's embarrassing.

Honestly, you can't really use those two. Bobby turner left to join Shanahan, who he spent 13 years with.

Dennison went to Houston to be with Kubiak, who he spent 10 years with.

I think that throwing out their leaving of the team as if they couldn't coexist with McDaniels is a gross exaggeration of their exit.

[Lonestar]

Honestly, you can't really use those two. Bobby turner left to join Shanahan, who he spent 13 years with.

Dennison went to Houston to be with Kubiak, who he spent 10 years with.

I think that throwing out their leaving of the team as if they couldn't coexist with McDaniels is a gross exaggeration of their exit.

Actually I think dennison and Kubes spent even more time together as players, as Rick was a LB for years in DEN before becoming a coach. We all know Kubes was Johns BU for along time also.

As for
Honestly, you've seen the way McDaniels behaves in public, in interviews, at press conferences, and on the sidelines during games... is that the guy you'd want to work for? To me and a lot of others, he looks lot like an immature kid that goes way to far with all of his emotions. Happiness, anger, frustration, pride, he over-exaggerates all of them like a 10 year old would.

There's a fine line between competitive fire and passion, and just a good 'ol fashioned temper tantrum or "in your face" bravado. Personally, I think he leans more toward the latter than the former and to me, it's embarrassing.

It is no worse than having to listen it the ten year old tantrums daily on here.

I'd rather have a coach that shows emotion than someone one that looks like he is one step in front of an undertaker.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Davii]

Honestly, you can't really use those two. Bobby turner left to join Shanahan, who he spent 13 years with.

Dennison went to Houston to be with Kubiak, who he spent 10 years with.

I think that throwing out their leaving of the team as if they couldn't coexist with McDaniels is a gross exaggeration of their exit.

I would think both guys wanted similar circumstances to what they were used too, nevermind the people they had worked with for each more than a decade.

Besides the fact that they were serving in the exact same role, or a promotion, with nothing new to learn.

I know if I could get a job with a boss i'd worked for and respected for more than a decade, or take a job with a different boss that I don't know at all, and stand a good chance of losing my job ina year or two... I know which one i'd pick.

[Lonestar]

I would think both guys wanted similar circumstances to what they were used too, nevermind the people they had worked with for each more than a decade.

Besides the fact that they were serving in the exact same role, or a promotion, with nothing new to learn.

I know if I could get a job with a boss i'd worked for and respected for more than a decade, or take a job with a different boss that I don't know at all, and stand a good chance of losing my job ina year or two... I know which one i'd pick.


I also think that Josh kind a pushed them to look elsewhere.

As they were ZBS specialists if we were going to PBS they had nothing to bring to the table.

I think josh gave them as shot at progressing with the future of the team, but neither could get past what they knew and learn new things.

Plus what could they teach to the new players coming in IF all they knew was ZBS.

[Ravage!!!]

Decent point except for the fact that those who make their determinations immediately w/o giving a reasonable amount of time to assess the pros and cons and the overall mark that the regime contributes is, well, idiocy.

Has nothing to do with the reactions and the expression of the immediate. It sounds great to say "lets wait and see"...but if you absolutely opposed the war (as an example, not going political)... does the "wait and see" really apply?

Immediate actions apply to the long-term, and most that are disgruntled aren't really looking for the damage as how it will effect this ONE season.

[Ravage!!!]

You know how you amass great stats? By playing great football. The game is about individual stats, that help the team. Marshall could only catch the balls thrown at him. How is that only thinking about his "stats" and not doing what he could for the team? This makes no sense.

EVERY player wants paid. Even the masiah himself (Orton) said that its every player's dream to go UFA... why? So they could get paid.

Quit turning the want to get paid into something that its not. Has nothing to do with not being "team players".. or only looking to pad stat your book. Thats stupid.

A million dollars, is a TON of money. Even the very very rich acknowledge this. To even suggest, that a player should take 1-2 MILLION dollars less purely because "you don't need it".... is the worst advice you can give ANY person.. EVER. If you respect money, and respect how much 1 million really is... you would NEVER EVER EVER suggest to any human that they should 'accept' 1-2 million less... or that the fight/want of the addition 1-2 million is too much. That is absolutely absurd. Donald Trump himself, would slap you in the face.

These guys are not looking to spend their money in a year or in a lifetime..its generational money. They know that. This kind of money will support their kids life, and their grandkids life.. and possibly, their great grandkids life.

[Bosco]

Honestly, you can't really use those two. Bobby turner left to join Shanahan, who he spent 13 years with.

Dennison went to Houston to be with Kubiak, who he spent 10 years with. Both of which were provided promotions and pay raises to go back to work in offenses which suit their coaching talents.

[Lonestar]

Both of which were provided promotions and pay raises to go back to work in offenses which suit their coaching talents.

Yep your correct on this, in so may ways .

[Dean]

I don't in anyway propose that I know why our coaching staff hit the highway. However, IMO it would have to be either very undesirable where they were or very attractive where they are going. In the case of Dennison and Turner they had to leave their home for the last 15 years.

I believe it takes very strong feelings to do that.

[Bosco]

I don't in anyway propose that I know why our coaching staff hit the highway. However, IMO it would have to be either very undesirable where they were or very attractive where they are going. In the case of Dennison and Turner they had to leave their home for the last 15 years.

I believe it takes very strong feelings to do that.

I don't think that's the case at all, and I haven't heard anything to the contrary. I know Josh originally wanted to clean house of the entire coaching staff. He wanted all his own hand picked guys, but kept Turner and Dennison at Bowlen's encouragement. While it didn't work out with Dennison, McD was willing to keep Turner.