PDA

View Full Version : Just for laughs



dogfish
04-15-2010, 01:15 AM
yea, this is one of those hypothetical situations, just to satisfy my own curiousity. . .

with marshall's departure (and chef likely right behind him), this offense is going to be seriously lacking in weapons. . . i know, i know-- i didn't say "devoid". . . and no, please don't make me a list of dan graham, and gaffney and buckhalter-- i know who we've got. . . i also know that some people would rather just spend most or all of our picks on the lines. . .

just bear with my for a minute, and let's say that you know for a fact that mcD is intent on adding an offensive skill position player who can bring some punch back to the O at 11. . . who would you rather have-- dez bryant, or CJ spiller?

bryant fills the more immediate need, plays a position that's considerably tougher to fill with good talent in the draft, plays a position where good players on average (in today's game, particularly) can be effective much deeper into their careers, projects as a fulltime starter, may actually be the better red zone weapon in the NFL, and is bigger and probably less of a durability concern. . . OTOH, he plays a position with a scary bust rate, has notable character questions that spiller doesn't and plays the recently-infamous "diva position," plays a position that typically takes considerably longer to transition to the NFL and produce at a high level, and doesn't have great speed for the position. . .

spiller has more big play speed, is likely to contribute more immediately, projects as a much more dangerous returner at the next level due to the speed difference, offers more in terms of positional versatility and matchup problems, is smart with great intangibles and seems more likely to retain internal motivation after getting paid, and looks like a safer pick while having just as much upside. . . OTOH, he would step into a more crowded position and would have a much less clear path to significant playing time, could have his impact lessened if our run blocking doesn't improve, will probably never be a fulltime starter (but could still prove too valuable to use much on returns after a year or two), doesn't have very good size, plays the position that tends to have the shortest shelf life, and plays a position that can fairly frequently be filled with satisfactory talent in the middle rounds and lower. . . not to mention we just spent a 1st on the position last year. . .

whattaya think?


and mods, you can move this to the draft forum if you prefer, but i put it here at least initially because it'll get a broader response, and what the hell ELSE do we have to talk about for the next week that isn't that guy we just traded who isn't even a bronco anymore. . .?

Ziggy
04-15-2010, 01:27 AM
If it had to be one, I'd take the most explosive player in the draft.

gobroncsnv
04-15-2010, 01:38 AM
Well, you nailed me when you said some of us think it should be spent on the line. But from what I hear about Bryant, I would rather go RB than WR, if the choices are as you show. And this with me thinking Moreno is gonna be just fine, given a year or so to get "into" the NFL, and us shoring up our blocking to get some better holes opened. I don't want another head case that we lose out on because of another mis-spent high draft choice. (Or is this one of them trick questions, and Spiller is some kind of head case also? I haven't followed him much...)

Bosco
04-15-2010, 01:55 AM
Spiller. Bryant is a serious talent but he projects better to the Y receiver role and he'd leave us with the same problem we had with Marshall, which is focusing our offense on the position that should be the 3rd option.

EMB6903
04-15-2010, 08:27 AM
Dez will be a starting WR in this league for awhile. not a Y. I have no idea why you'd think he'd be anything but an X in this league.

I went with Spiller as well, the explosiveness and playmaking ability he would bring would he huge but theres no way thats gonna happen because of drafting Knowshon in the first last year... would be nice though

Northman
04-15-2010, 08:27 AM
I would take Spiller personally.

TXBRONC
04-15-2010, 08:43 AM
If this is our choices as much as I wouldn't want to do it I think we should take Bryant. First and foremost we now have a lack of weapons for the passing game and do not buy into for one minute the idea Gaffney all of sudden starter material that can fill the production void that we now have.

If we drafted Spiller how much of impact could he make in what would be very crowded backfield?

Finally Dog suggested that we should draft a wide receiver in the first round just to see JR squirm a bit. (kidding) :lol:

Grover
04-15-2010, 08:49 AM
That's a seriously small draft board. I need an "Option C" - None of the above.

Looking at the INDIVIDUALS, the Clear choice is Spiller. Even looking at the Positions, I think you've got to go RB.

We don't have the Quarterbacks that will make a play-making WR all that valuable. Look at Gaffney who did a GREAT Brandan Marshall impersonation in the last game of the season. He was a Monster!

So no, this team can't use a dynamic WR in the first round. Just doesn't make sense with our 1-12 yard passing game.

I'd rather see Sheffler converted to a Wideout. I know that ain't happening. But he's shown to have good hands and is a big target. I'd like to pay the man and get him on the field. Might just improve his attitude.

Put one of the premiere Safeties or Cornerbacks on your list at #11, and I'm all over that pick.

atwater27
04-15-2010, 09:04 AM
Neither. Ryan Matthews. TD2

Lancane
04-15-2010, 09:22 AM
Of the two...Dez Bryant.

broncofaninfla
04-15-2010, 09:26 AM
I could go either way on this one. I fee both are way better than any player at those postions over who we currently have.

TXBRONC
04-15-2010, 09:31 AM
Dez will be a starting WR in this league for awhile. not a Y. I have no idea why you'd think he'd be anything but an X in this league.

I went with Spiller as well, the explosiveness and playmaking ability he would bring would he huge but theres no way thats gonna happen because of drafting Knowshon in the first last year... would be nice though

I went with Bryant because of the fact we are short handed at the wide receiver position.

SOCALORADO.
04-15-2010, 09:46 AM
I went with Bryant because of the fact we are short handed at the wide receiver position.

Exactly. Why take Spiller when DEN has Moreno?
I swear i got a rash of crap from just about everyone when i said that Spiller could be the BPA @ #11 and that DEN might take him a few week ago, but now with no Marshall and DEZ available, a bunch of posters want Spiller over Dez. Unreal.
If you think Orton will be the starting QB without Marshall here, your on dope. The ONLY reason he was even remotely successful last season was because of Marshall. Without Marshall, Ortons trash.
Of course Qwinn will start week 1 anyways, so its irrelevant now, but having DEZ would keep teams defenses honest and he would be the big target needed, that catches everything.
But i like Spiller alot. He could actually play a little slot, he could be used in a wildhorses with Moreno, he would return KOs and punts. Lots of options there.

G_Money
04-15-2010, 10:42 AM
Dez only helps us if we have a QB who can throw it to him.

Spiller would have to get touches from both Buckhalter and Moreno.

Your options suck. :P

~G

underrated29
04-15-2010, 11:29 AM
I would love spiller, but you can not seriously think that we can have any success on offense with royal, stokely, gaffney, mckinley, lloyd..... Last year we barely put up 17 pts per game or whatever it was........Spiller would be huge, but the defense aslready stack the box on us and without Scheff and marshall. Do they really think we will beat them for a pass longer than 5 yards... Come on!

Defenses didnt think we would beat them last year for passes longer than that, without brandon and scheff there is no way they will.



I believe that Dez Bryant is the bst WR to come out since Calvin Johnson! I also think like Calvin that he is a once in a decade type player. His issues about being a diva we can probably keep in check. Brandons would have been in check but he wanted more money. Dez has no off field worries like Brandon. Dez Bryant will be one of the top 5 WR in the game and WILL have a better career than marshall.


If someone would tell you, you could draft AJ, or Randy moss at 11- its a guarantee that they will be that good. Would you do it? Probably so...can we say for certain that dez will be---no we cant, but ANYONE with a brain can see that Dez is heads and shoulders above any in this class and is/was better than Crabtree from last class.--And thats the evaluators and scouts talking not me.

You Take Dez, unfortunately- but you enjoy having a better WR than marshall back in denver!

Ravage!!!
04-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Great Question.

I'd go with Bryant purely because our WRs are much weaker than our RBs.. AND... its much much easier to find quality RBs in the later rounds than it is WRs. So I would use the first round on a talent like Dez, this year.

Buff
04-15-2010, 07:31 PM
I love Spiller's speed. Plus RBs are easier to plug and play, so I think that makes him a slightly safer pick. I don't think Carolina regrets taking either of their 1st round backs.

dogfish
04-15-2010, 07:47 PM
pretty close so far, 11-9. . . .

EMB6903
04-15-2010, 07:50 PM
I love Spiller's speed. Plus RBs are easier to plug and play, so I think that makes him a slightly safer pick. I don't think Carolina regrets taking either of their 1st round backs.

I just hope Mcdaniels would have the ball's to draft Spiller knowing he drafted a RB in the top 15 the previous year.

Buff
04-15-2010, 07:51 PM
I just hope Mcdaniels would have the ball's to draft Spiller knowing he drafted a RB in the top 15 the previous year.

If we learned anything from last year's draft, it's that he's willing to buck conventional wisdom to get the guy he wants.

dogfish
04-15-2010, 07:55 PM
If we learned anything from last year's draft, it's that he's willing to buck conventional wisdom to get the guy he wants.

no question. . .

Bosco
04-15-2010, 08:01 PM
Dez will be a starting WR in this league for awhile. not a Y. I have no idea why you'd think he'd be anything but an X in this league.

The X/Y/Z notations for receivers denote their role, not whether they will start. Marshall is Y receiver, and the entire offense was focused on him last year. Secondly, in McDaniels spread/WCO hybrid offense, all three receivers are essentially starters.

EMB6903
04-15-2010, 08:02 PM
The X/Y/Z notations for receivers denote their role, not whether they will start. Marshall is Y receiver, and the entire offense was focused on him last year. Secondly, in McDaniels spread/WCO hybrid offense, all three receivers are essentially starters.

I dont think you know the definition of an X,Y,Z. if you did you wouldnt say Dez is going to be a career Y.

Thats basically saying Dez belongs in the slot his entire career. LOL

Bosco
04-15-2010, 08:35 PM
I dont think you know the definition of an X,Y,Z. if you did you wouldnt say Dez is going to be a career Y. I've talked at length on here about the roles the respective positions play. You must have missed those posts or you'd realize that I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about and it's not hard to see where a particular player's skill set lies.


Thats basically saying Dez belongs in the slot his entire career. LOL The slot receiver is actually the Z receiver, which is what Welker plays and where Royal should be playing.

You must have it in your head that Bryant being a Y receiver is a slam. It's not. Marshall was a Y receiver and our entire offense focused on him. Different skill sets and different positions for those skill sets. The thing is, McDaniels has clearly shown he prefers to focus his offense on the X and Z receivers with the Y being the 3rd option, so it would be a bad idea to spend a high draft pick on another Y receiver especially when we have Gaffney who is more than capable in that role.

EMB6903
04-15-2010, 08:40 PM
X and Z are 2 starting WRs' X usually lining up on the LOS.... Y can be either your slot, Hback, or TE depending on the formation you are in.

Last but not least......Wes Welker IS NOT A Z. do not listen to this man.

examples of X WR's.... Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne.

Z= Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Torry Holt, Desean Jackson.

Y= Dallas Clark, Wes Welker, Brandon Stokley,

Italianmobstr7
04-15-2010, 08:47 PM
Dez only helps us if we have a QB who can throw it to him.

Spiller would have to get touches from both Buckhalter and Moreno.

Your options suck. :P

~G

Kyle Orton and Brady Quinn are both much better than Zac Robinson was in college. Living in Oklahoma I saw a lot of Zac Robinson, and I promise you if they had a Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen, hell even a Daryl Clark from Penn State they probably been to a BCS game or 2. Dez made Zac a better qb, just like Marshall did with Orton. I would definitely take Dez in this case. He could come in an immediately help Orton not drop off a tremendous amount. Also, he'd provide a big target that will go up and get the ball which Orton showed he's clearly comfortable throwing to.

Bosco
04-15-2010, 09:03 PM
X and Z are 2 starting WRs' X usually lining up on the LOS.... Y can be either your slot, Hback, or TE depending on the formation you are in. Only 1 receiver typically lines up on the line of scrimmage in a 2 wide set. You need to have 7 on the LOS. Typically this is going to be the 5 linemen, a TE and 1 WR.


Last but not least......Wes Welker IS NOT A Z. do not listen to this man. He most certainly is.


examples of X WR's.... Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne. Brandon Marshall is not an X receiver. He is too slow. Same reason Bryant doesn't project there with his poor 40 times.


Z= Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Torry Holt, Desean Jackson. Harrison, Johnson and Holt would project to the Y receiver role, although some of them could go X as well.


Y= Dallas Clark, Wes Welker, Brandon Stokley, These are Z receivers except for Clark, who is a TE. Eddie Royal would go here as well.

gobroncsnv
04-15-2010, 09:58 PM
Exactly. Why take Spiller when DEN has Moreno?
I swear i got a rash of crap from just about everyone when i said that Spiller could be the BPA @ #11 and that DEN might take him a few week ago, but now with no Marshall and DEZ available, a bunch of posters want Spiller over Dez. Unreal.
If you think Orton will be the starting QB without Marshall here, your on dope. The ONLY reason he was even remotely successful last season was because of Marshall. Without Marshall, Ortons trash.
Of course Qwinn will start week 1 anyways, so its irrelevant now, but having DEZ would keep teams defenses honest and he would be the big target needed, that catches everything.
But i like Spiller alot. He could actually play a little slot, he could be used in a wildhorses with Moreno, he would return KOs and punts. Lots of options there.

I take Spiller because I don't think the team needs another round of Marshall. Simple as that.
Of course, my real vote would be neither, and I said as much, we need to make sure we have an oline solid now, or I'd go McLain or Kindle... or someone like them. But between Spiller and Bryant, I would go with Spiller, because I would rather have another Moreno than another Marshall.

Krugan
04-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Golden Tate, trade down(if possible) and grab Tate somewhere around 18-23.

Not that its likely, but would much rather have Tate.

dogfish
04-15-2010, 11:12 PM
Golden Tate, trade down(if possible) and grab Tate somewhere around 18-23.

Not that its likely, but would much rather have Tate.

for the record, i would absolutely prefer that-- tate's one of my favorite players in this draft. . . i never assume we'll be able to trade down, though, which is why i put the question the way i did. . .

i actually think dez is likely to be our pick, and i was just curious how many people would prefer spiller, since those guys would seem to be the logical choices there if you want an offensive skill position player. . .

Krugan
04-15-2010, 11:18 PM
It just kills me that we have this as a consideration.

The character issue with Dez, well my opinion, is more of the lines he might be a little thick. He made a mistake with his choice of words. Im not sure there is alot more than that to worry about.

Taking another RB in the first this year would be to much.

Guess ill vote for Dez, just because I screwed up your thread:)

dogfish
04-15-2010, 11:28 PM
It just kills me that we have this as a consideration.

The character issue with Dez, well my opinion, is more of the lines he might be a little thick. He made a mistake with his choice of words. Im not sure there is alot more than that to worry about.

Taking another RB in the first this year would be to much.

Guess ill vote for Dez, just because I screwed up your thread:)


lol. . . it's all good!

Skinny
04-16-2010, 08:37 AM
I'm not as high on selecting Spiller now as i was before the Marshall trade, but i would still take CJ over a few other guys... just not Bryant at this point.

CoachChaz
04-16-2010, 08:57 AM
Give Spiller 20 more pounds of weight, eliminate the nagging toe and hamstring injuries he has, and give us a need for another RB and ok...I'll buy.

Until then, I'd prefer Bryant over Spiller. I'm glad everyone is talking about Bryant the way they are. All that does is puts a chip on a kid's shoulder. He'll excel wherever he goes.

atwater27
04-16-2010, 09:51 AM
Give Spiller 20 more pounds of weight, eliminate the nagging toe and hamstring injuries he has, and give us a need for another RB and ok...I'll buy.

Until then, I'd prefer Bryant over Spiller. I'm glad everyone is talking about Bryant the way they are. All that does is puts a chip on a kid's shoulder. He'll excel wherever he goes.

Yeah, none of it has any merit. That's why the guy is dropping in the mock drafts and espn, nfl network and just about everyone else is stamping a big fat buyer beware on the guy. They must all not know what they are talking about.

CoachChaz
04-16-2010, 10:01 AM
Yeah, none of it has any merit. That's why the guy is dropping in the mock drafts and espn, nfl network and just about everyone else is stamping a big fat buyer beware on the guy. They must all not know what they are talking about.

Yeah, because in the past they have been right on with guys like Warren Sapp and Randy Moss when it comes to "character issues?. Those guys were never any good on the field, so keep believing everything you hear and read from the "experts"

atwater27
04-16-2010, 10:10 AM
Yeah, because in the past they have been right on with guys like Warren Sapp and Randy Moss when it comes to "character issues?. Those guys were never any good on the field, so keep believing everything you hear and read from the "experts"

Right. I'll just believe a self appointed one.

CoachChaz
04-16-2010, 10:18 AM
Right. I'll just believe a self appointed one.

When did I say that? It's funny...people get sand in their clit whining about how if others dont like their opinions then they need to stay out of a forum, but the second someone else states an alternate opinion...they are a "self-appointed expert"

Nice double standard. My comments on Bryant are based on what I see...nothing more. If you want to continue to form your opinion of him based on what the "experts" tell you, that's fine.

weazel
04-16-2010, 10:20 AM
That's a seriously small draft board. I need an "Option C" - None of the above.

Looking at the INDIVIDUALS, the Clear choice is Spiller. Even looking at the Positions, I think you've got to go RB.

We don't have the Quarterbacks that will make a play-making WR all that valuable. Look at Gaffney who did a GREAT Brandan Marshall impersonation in the last game of the season. He was a Monster!

So no, this team can't use a dynamic WR in the first round. Just doesn't make sense with our 1-12 yard passing game.

I'd rather see Sheffler converted to a Wideout. I know that ain't happening. But he's shown to have good hands and is a big target. I'd like to pay the man and get him on the field. Might just improve his attitude.

Put one of the premiere Safeties or Cornerbacks on your list at #11, and I'm all over that pick.

LOL, it's half the size of McD's from last years draft!

weazel
04-16-2010, 10:22 AM
I took Bryant because Spiller won't be there at 11. I also think Moreno will be fine

SOCALORADO.
04-16-2010, 10:23 AM
I took Bryant because Spiller won't be there at 11. I also think Moreno will be fine

You think Spiller goes 6th?

underrated29
04-16-2010, 10:37 AM
screw the "supposed" issues he has. Bryant is the best WR to come out in a LOOOOOONG time...

Better than any wr in this draft.
Better than crabtree in the last draft, or percy or anyone else
Better than desean jax and royal the years prior


The only WR better than Bryant is Megatron. And before that I would say AJ, and Larry Fitz.



On a potential Randy Moss, AJ, Fitz- that is young and not even close to their prime- you take the risk that he wont lie to anyone anymore and buy an alarm clock and tape it to his forehead!

Nomad
04-16-2010, 10:46 AM
I wonder what you'd have if you morphed the two together!!

Broncolingus
04-16-2010, 12:37 PM
Being that I think the purpose of the thread was to simply choose one of the two (seemed obvious to me), I'll go with Dezzy - as I think he's what Denver needs more than (another) RB now, and also because I think Denver needs to get something out of the investment in Moreno.

JMO...

atwater27
04-16-2010, 01:19 PM
If you want to continue to form your opinion of him based on what the "experts" tell you, that's fine.

I just wanted to make sure it was ok with you first. Thank you for your approval, coach.;)

CoachChaz
04-16-2010, 01:34 PM
I just wanted to make sure it was ok with you first. Thank you for your approval, coach.;)

Anytime

BroncoWave
04-16-2010, 02:06 PM
Easily Dez Bryant. We already picked a RB in the first round last year, we don't need to again. I'm not against us drafting a RB; someone like Anthony Dixon, Toby Gerhart, or Dexter McCluster could be had in round 3-4 and do just fine for us.

Nomad
04-16-2010, 02:14 PM
Easily Dez Bryant. We already picked a RB in the first round last year, we don't need to again. I'm not against us drafting a RB; someone like Anthony Dixon, Toby Gerhart, or Dexter McCluster could be had in round 3-4 and do just fine for us.

After watching McCluster for about 3 or 4 yrs, he'll be a special player in the NFL. I'm glad to see him go from the OLE MISS

BroncoWave
04-16-2010, 02:46 PM
After watching McCluster for about 3 or 4 yrs, he'll be a special player in the NFL. I'm glad to see him go from the OLE MISS

Agreed. I honestly think had Houston Nutt actually used him for the first half of the season, he would have been sitting in NY for the Heisman presentation. Whoever gets him is going to get a steal, and I really hope it's us.