Broncos worst drafting Franchise in NFL?

[sonenlaw]

Finishing mid tier is an issue for management. We never get a stud player early in the draft and management struggles with rolling the dice. Check out the following draft mistakes.

- Jay Cutler
- Darius Watts
- George Foster
- Jarvis Moss
- Maurice Clarett
- Terry Pierce
- Tatum Bell
- Ashley Lelie
- Willie Middlebrooks
- Deltha O'neal
- Paul Toviessi
- Marcus Nash
- Dan Williams
- Glyn Milburn
- Tommie Maddox
- Shane Dronett
- Mike Croel
- Alton Montgomery
- Gerald Perry
- Ricky Nattiel

[Scarface]

Where's The Septic Tank when you need it?

[Rex]

Nice effort.

How about that trade of draft pick, Chris Hinton, and Mark Hermann for John Elway?

[sonenlaw]

It's a good thing we didn't have to make the decision to "draft" Elway.

[LRtagger]

http://www.camelworld.com/images/monkeys/Laughing%20Monkey.jpg

[BOSSHOGG30]

Denver is still hearing it from their 2001 and 2002 draft classes....hopefully a few more good drafts like 2006 will end the draft jokes.

2002:
1 (19) Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 (51) Clinton Portis RB Miami
3 (96) Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi St.
4 (131) Sam Brandon S UNLV
5 (144) Herb Haygood WR Michigan St.
6 (191) Jeb Putzier TE Boise St.
7 (228) Chris Young S Georgia Tech
7 (231) Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001:
1 (24) Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 (58) Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 (87) Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4a (113) Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4b (120) Nick Harris P California
6 (190) Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

[Ziggy]

Denver is still hearing it from their 2001 and 2002 draft classes....hopefully a few more good drafts like 2006 will end the draft jokes.

2002:
1 (19) Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 (51) Clinton Portis RB Miami
3 (96) Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi St.
4 (131) Sam Brandon S UNLV
5 (144) Herb Haygood WR Michigan St.
6 (191) Jeb Putzier TE Boise St.
7 (228) Chris Young S Georgia Tech
7 (231) Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001:
1 (24) Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 (58) Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 (87) Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4a (113) Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4b (120) Nick Harris P California
6 (190) Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2003, 2004, and 2005 wasn't much better. Right now Denver deserves all the criticism they get for the last 10 years drafts as a whole. Here's to hoping that the 2006 draft is a sign of things to come and not a fluke.:beer:

[JONtheBRONCO]

Jay Cutler?

[GEM]

You should have listed Jay Cutler at the bottom. Then at least I could have taken your post seriously for a few moments. Listing him first just blew it for thinking you have any credentials on this site.



:lol: :laugh:

Jarvis Moss? Seriously? One year and he broke a leg....total bust. We should just cut him now.


:lol: :laugh:

Other than that....good list.

[Medford Bronco]

Finishing mid tier is an issue for management. We never get a stud player early in the draft and management struggles with rolling the dice. Check out the following draft mistakes.

- Jay Cutler
- Darius Watts
- George Foster
- Jarvis Moss
- Maurice Clarett
- Terry Pierce
- Tatum Bell
- Ashley Lelie
- Willie Middlebrooks
- Deltha O'neal
- Paul Toviessi
- Marcus Nash
- Dan Williams
- Glyn Milburn
- Tommie Maddox
- Shane Dronett
- Mike Croel
- Alton Montgomery
- Gerald Perry
- Ricky Nattiel


Marcus Nash should be number 1, he sucked and played one whole NFL season with hs 6 catches I believe

[Rex]

Yet somehow, with all this inept leadership and bafoon-like drafts Denver stays out of the top 10 in the draft some consistently.

[sonenlaw]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and Jackson, we can at least win the special teams battle.

[Ziggy]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and foster, we can at least win the special teams battle.


Step away from the crack pipe.

[claymore]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and Jackson, we can at least win the special teams battle.

Are you Jake Plummer????? They have the internet in Idaho?????

[BOSSHOGG30]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and Jackson, we can at least win the special teams battle.


How many 165 lb wide receivers make it in this league?

[Rex]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and Jackson, we can at least win the special teams battle.

So, you would rather have Santonio Holmes than Jay Cutler?

[GEM]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and Jackson, we can at least win the special teams battle.


It's easy to sit here and say what you would have done 2 years later. I'm sure they sit there and do the same thing.

So negative....I seriously wonder how you stomach watching the Broncos every week...and since this has been a long time issue, I seriously wonder why you even bother anymore...perhaps there is a better team out there for you. Or maybe...since you are a draft genius, you could go down to Dove Valley and apply for the GM position. You could list on your resume who you would have taken and they'll take you seriously.

[BOSSHOGG30]

So, you would rather have Santonio Holmes than Jay Cutler?

Didn't Cutler break some pretty nice records already? Something about most games as a rookie with at least one touch down pass..........

What exactly has Holmes done that is so significant in his career?

[Flatinum]

Cutler is a joke for what we had to give up. He has a big arm, but he is not a playmaker. He is closer to Jeff George than he is John Elway. In '06 I wanted us to take Ngata, Maroney, Addai, Manny Lawson or Santonio Holmes. But what did we do, we traded up for Cutler. We had a chance in previous years to sit back and take Steven Jackson, but what do we do, trade up for DJ Williams. When we shoulda drafted McGahee or Larry Johnson, we take George Foster. We shoulda gotten aggressive in that draft and traded up for Terrell Suggs. How much better off would the defense be today with Suggs. I'm going to ask Pat Bowlen to let me sit in the war room and kick Shanny out. We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson. A playmaker is a play maker and we don't have many. I would have liked to have waited on the Culter pick a few years ago in anticipation of Brohm but Jackson is the reality that confronts us now. He could be the next Steve Smith or at worst Darian Gordon in the return game. We don't win in offensive shootouts, can't win a defensive battle. With Sour-braun and Jackson, we can at least win the special teams battle.


It ended up being Tye Hill (no.15) and Claude Wroten (3rd Rd) that we gave up for Cutler. That's way too much????

[BigDaddyBronco]

If you want to talk about bad drafting. Go look at the Dolphins picks for the last 10 years.

[yardog]

Wow :tsk:!

[BroncoJoe]

This guy is a troll, IMO. No offense, just an opinion.

[Flatinum]

This guy is a troll, IMO. No offense, just an opinion.

A troll or a dummy. Take your pick.

[LRtagger]

We would be crazy not to take DeSean Jackson.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Lonestar]

If you want to talk about bad drafting. Go look at the Dolphins picks for the last 10 years. look at how many coaches and GM's they have had..

[broncogirl7]

Finishing mid tier is an issue for management. We never get a stud player early in the draft and management struggles with rolling the dice. Check out the following draft mistakes.

- Jay Cutler
- Darius Watts
- George Foster
- Jarvis Moss
- Maurice Clarett
- Terry Pierce
- Tatum Bell
- Ashley Lelie
- Willie Middlebrooks
- Deltha O'neal
- Paul Toviessi
- Marcus Nash
- Dan Williams
- Glyn Milburn
- Tommie Maddox
- Shane Dronett
- Mike Croel
- Alton Montgomery
- Gerald Perry
- Ricky Nattiel

Kindly remove Cutler from your list. He was definately not a mistake in drafting. I remember the nay-sayers when Elway was drafted and played his first couple of years. I see Cutler doing the same thing. Go Jay! Go Broncos!

[MHCBill]

Ahhhh sonenlaw...

Ever see the movie "The Rainmaker"?

Great line... you must be stupid, stupid, stupid.

Just curious is you saw that movie. I'm not saying you're stupid, stupid, stupid... I'm just curious if you saw it.

Not sure what made me think of that line... came out of left field.

By no means are you stupid, stupid, stupid. 100% you are not stupid, stupid stupid.

STUPID, STUPID, STUPID

[sonenlaw]

you guys are brutal. I don't even live in Denver but I make just about every Broncos game. I have been a Broncos fan since they first picked up John Elway. There have been alot of people that were able to eat off the talents of john Elway. Dan Reeves. totally inept. Mike Shannahan, his only genius is making everybody think he's in the same class as coaches like Belichek and Parcels. For a starting NFL QB, Jay Cutler's personality sucks, his football IQ is marginal, he has tools, but mark my words he will never put it all together. And as for Elway, nobody ever wanted to run him out of town after his first couple years. You saw greatness from him even when he was in college, not just potential. Jay Cutler will have to figure out how to make his players go to war for him like rothlisberger has. I can't imagine how we've only landed a single big name WR in Free Agency nor in the draft since Ed Mccaffrey. Brandon Marshall and he was a project. Only 1 decent RB (Clinton Portis) since TD left. No TE's since sharp left. Carlise is the only O-lineman we have developed since Nalen, We let our decent DE's get away, No interior linemen since Keith Trailor. Thank goodness for Al Wilson, John Lynch and Champ Bailey or we really would look like a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 8 years. I'm pissed!!!

[LRtagger]

you guys are brutal. I don't even live in Denver but I make just about every Broncos game. I have been a Broncos fan since they first picked up John Elway. There have been alot of people that were able to eat off the talents of john Elway. Dan Reeves. totally inept. Mike Shannahan, his only genius is making everybody think he's in the same class as coaches like Belichek and Parcels. For a starting NFL QB, Jay Cutler's personality sucks, his football IQ is marginal, he has tools, but mark my words he will never put it all together. And as for Elway, nobody ever wanted to run him out of town after his first couple years. You saw greatness from him even when he was in college, not just potential. Jay Cutler will have to figure out how to make his players go to war for him like rothlisberger has. I can't imagine how we've only landed a single big name WR in Free Agency nor in the draft since Ed Mccaffrey. Brandon Marshall and he was a project. Only 1 decent RB (Clinton Portis) since TD left. No TE's since sharp left. Carlise is the only O-lineman we have developed since Nalen, We let our decent DE's get away, No interior linemen since Keith Trailor. Thank goodness for Al Wilson, John Lynch and Champ Bailey or we really would look like a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 8 years. I'm pissed!!!


And all this adds up to taking the most undersized and overhyped WR in the draft at pick 12? Your solution for our previous draft blunders is to reach for a short and skinny WR. Laughable. Jackson will go in the very late first at best. No way he is the first WR chosen and no way he is chosen by us at 12. Even if we trade back in the first, we would be retarded to pick him up. Especially considering our offseason moves.

If you want a PLAYMAKER at pick 12 and are tired of the mediocre runners since TD and Portis, then jump on the Mendenhall/Stewart bandwagon.

As far as Cutler is concerned. He single handedly won us some games last year in the 4th quarter. He is still young and learning. He will be a star for us in the future. We just need to surround him will solid talent and a OL and DL. He will lead this team to at least one SB victory before he retires. Count on it.

[MOtorboat]

DeSean Jackson

:rofl:

:rofl:

Wait...no...

:rofl:

OK...I'm...

:rofl:

Done...

:rofl:

[MHCBill]

you guys are brutal. I don't even live in Denver but I make just about every Broncos game. I have been a Broncos fan since they first picked up John Elway. There have been alot of people that were able to eat off the talents of john Elway. Dan Reeves. totally inept. Mike Shannahan, his only genius is making everybody think he's in the same class as coaches like Belichek and Parcels. For a starting NFL QB, Jay Cutler's personality sucks, his football IQ is marginal, he has tools, but mark my words he will never put it all together. And as for Elway, nobody ever wanted to run him out of town after his first couple years. You saw greatness from him even when he was in college, not just potential. Jay Cutler will have to figure out how to make his players go to war for him like rothlisberger has. I can't imagine how we've only landed a single big name WR in Free Agency nor in the draft since Ed Mccaffrey. Brandon Marshall and he was a project. Only 1 decent RB (Clinton Portis) since TD left. No TE's since sharp left. Carlise is the only O-lineman we have developed since Nalen, We let our decent DE's get away, No interior linemen since Keith Trailor. Thank goodness for Al Wilson, John Lynch and Champ Bailey or we really would look like a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 8 years. I'm pissed!!!I had a Filet 'o Fish sandwich for lunch today.

[Lonestar]

I had a Filet 'o Fish sandwich for lunch today.

more than he had

[sonenlaw]

Put the rubber lady away now.

[sonenlaw]

Kansas City showed us how the draft should work. Denver srewed the pooch once again in this draft.

[shank]

Kansas City showed us how the draft should work. Denver srewed the pooch once again in this draft.

i will agree that kc's draft is AMAZING so far, but denver's isn't bad. we stayed put and took good players that fill needs, no matter how you look at it or who you liked.

shanny said they had offers to move down in the 2nd, i wish we would have taken one, and picked up a 3rd. we didn't though, and it's ok.

i feel much better today than i did after day 1 of last year.

[slim]

Eddie Royal will be a better pro than Jackson.

[sonenlaw]

Eddie Royal sucks. He was mediocre in a sub par passing offense. He's no better than Sammie Parker. Clady is the second coming of George Foster. We did it again. Mike Shannahan should be fired after we go 8-8 this season.

[sonenlaw]

Eddie royal youtube highlight reel. One of the worst I'veever seen. He has 4-5 punt returns and get's run out of bounds on each after very short runs. He tries to hit homeruns w/o home run speed on go routes. His route running is terrible and he catches everything into his body. His size is underwhelming. Deshawn Jackson has ten career games, each with more highlights than this reel. We really screwed this draft up. I want Shannahan fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rloo1rd4Bl4

[slim]

Eddie royal youtube highlight reel. One of the worst I'veever seen. He has 4-5 punt returns and get's run out of bounds on each after very short runs. He tries to hit homeruns w/o home run speed on go routes. His route running is terrible and he catches everything into his body. His size is underwhelming. Deshawn Jackson has ten career games, each with more highlights than this reel. We really screwed this draft up. I want Shannahan fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rloo1rd4Bl4

I am starting to think you ARE D. Jackson. I would recommend a few cheeseburgers and a lot of beer. You can use the extra LBs.

[Bronco9798]

Eddie royal youtube highlight reel. One of the worst I'veever seen. He has 4-5 punt returns and get's run out of bounds on each after very short runs. He tries to hit homeruns w/o home run speed on go routes. His route running is terrible and he catches everything into his body. His size is underwhelming. Deshawn Jackson has ten career games, each with more highlights than this reel. We really screwed this draft up. I want Shannahan fired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rloo1rd4Bl4

You're a friggin idiot.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I am starting to think you ARE D. Jackson. I would recommend a few cheeseburgers and a lot of beer. You can use the extra LBs.

What does D. Jackson weigh? 169 lbs or something. I bet one of Slim's legs weigh that much. :D

[slim]

What does D. Jackson weigh? 169 lbs or something. I bet one of Slim's legs weigh that much. :D

169...man that is tiny. Dude is gonna get killed (if he ever sees the field).

[sonenlaw]

Just like Wes Welker gets killed

[sonenlaw]

Hard to hit something you can't catch

[slim]

Just like Wes Welker gets killed

Wes is the same size as Eddie Royal (5'9" 185)...but thanks for stopping by.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Just like Wes Welker gets killed
Welker is 185 lbs.

[upindbroncs]

Simply put, yes they are the worst. Especially in the early rounds. Clady wasn't even the top ranked guy but I understand why they went for him. However I think the lack of size will just add the the team's inability to run a red zone offense. Second round they lost their mind.

Are we that sure of the RB's we have to not take any one of these guys? I think Stewart' going to be a stud.

I think it comes down to the fact that Shanny's ego won't let him believe that they're not "one or two players away". Sometime during each of the past 5-6 seasons he's made this statement in one way or another. When they realize they're rebuilding we'll be able to move forward.

Who knows? Maybe we'll pull that trade off for Anquan Boldin or Chad Johnson (yeah I know...showboat with a mouth, but you can't ignore the Johnson / Marshall combo)

[topscribe]

Finishing mid tier is an issue for management. We never get a stud player early in the draft and management struggles with rolling the dice. Check out the following draft mistakes.

- Jay Cutler
- Darius Watts
- George Foster
- Jarvis Moss
- Maurice Clarett
- Terry Pierce
- Tatum Bell
- Ashley Lelie
- Willie Middlebrooks
- Deltha O'neal
- Paul Toviessi
- Marcus Nash
- Dan Williams
- Glyn Milburn
- Tommie Maddox
- Shane Dronett
- Mike Croel
- Alton Montgomery
- Gerald Perry
- Ricky Nattiel

:pound:

-----

[Joel]

Jay Cutler?
Makes as much sense in that list as Ricky Nattiel, IMHO. Or Jarvis Moss after a single season when we knew he was coming off an injury. We could draft the '72 Dolphins and some people would still call it a horrible draft (I'm not saying that's what this is, just sayin'.... ) You can see the same in the conveniently provided list of subsequent draftees; Ben Hamilton was our third best lineman--until Lepsis retired; now he's #2, and easily the best guard, provided he's healthy. Heck, Clinton Portis is in that list, and the only reason he's not still starting for us is we didn't think he was worth the money he wanted (that, and we desperately needed Champ). So there you go; a draft pick that got us Champ Bailey without actually having to draft Champ Bailey. I prefer to wait until we see them on the field before we decide if this years draft class is a boom, bust, or something in the middle.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Makes as much sense in that list as Ricky Nattiel, IMHO. Or Jarvis Moss after a single season when we knew he was coming off an injury. We could draft the '72 Dolphins and some people would still call it a horrible draft (I'm not saying that's what this is, just sayin'.... ) You can see the same in the conveniently provided list of subsequent draftees; Ben Hamilton was our third best lineman--until Lepsis retired; now he's #2, and easily the best guard, provided he's healthy. Heck, Clinton Portis is in that list, and the only reason he's not still starting for us is we didn't think he was worth the money he wanted (that, and we desperately needed Champ). So there you go; a draft pick that got us Champ Bailey without actually having to draft Champ Bailey. I prefer to wait until we see them on the field before we decide if this years draft class is a boom, bust, or something in the middle.

We haven't been a good drafting team, but yea I agree with you. When you post a list of names and don't include the good picks it kind of negates your argument. If he said look at the percentage of draft picks that are starters, or on the team, or number of pro bowls, etc. vs. other teams then you have an argument.

Also I don't think in the past Shanny has looked at the draft as the sole source for rebuilding his team, hence the large umber of FA's. We also have to have the highest number of undrafted FA make the team because Shanny doesn't let draft mistakes hang around. Some teams would have kept Clarett on the team for at least one year to minimize the fallout from drafting him.

[eessydo]

According to Indianapolis GM, Bill Polian, if you bat .333 in the draft you had a VERY GOOD draft year. Of course he didn't clarify what the criteria are when defining whether or not you got on base with a player.

In the end we have to keep that in mind.

[sonenlaw]

When I posted that list, I posted all of the first round picks for 15 years and then some other notable picks. That is why you have Cutler and Portis on the list. The good, bad and ugly. I was showing we have more ugly than good. I didn't put it all on Shannahan, but his genius does come into question with his flawed logic in drafting. I won't call Cutler ugly but I think he is a bad draft pick. If I'm not mistaken I think Schaub was available that year. I would much rather have him than Cutler. Kubiak may be the real genius. I understand the direction of the texans more than I do the Broncos. We could've had the Pittsburg Steelers Draft with mendenhal and sweed. Sorry for my rants but I'm seeing the grass greener everywhere and i'm having to justify to my friends why the moves we make are good moves and I can no longer do so.

[MOtorboat]

When I posted that list, I posted all of the first round picks for 15 years and then some other notable picks. That is why you have Cutler and Portis on the list. The good, bad and ugly. I was showing we have more ugly than good. I didn't put it all on Shannahan, but his genius does come into question with his flawed logic in drafting. I won't call Cutler ugly but I think he is a bad draft pick. If I'm not mistaken I think Schaub was available that year. I would much rather have him than Cutler. Kubiak may be the real genius. I understand the direction of the texans more than I do the Broncos. We could've had the Pittsburg Steelers Draft with mendenhal and sweed. Sorry for my rants but I'm seeing the grass greener everywhere and i'm having to justify to my friends why the moves we make are good moves and I can no longer do so.

We need to the list of like-teams drafts (those who have drafted in the late teens and 20s during the same time frame, to then have any sort of qualifier. I'm sure there are teams that are better out there, but we need a tangible way to compare teams to make your argument valid.

[TXBRONC]

Makes as much sense in that list as Ricky Nattiel, IMHO. Or Jarvis Moss after a single season when we knew he was coming off an injury. We could draft the '72 Dolphins and some people would still call it a horrible draft (I'm not saying that's what this is, just sayin'.... ) You can see the same in the conveniently provided list of subsequent draftees; Ben Hamilton was our third best lineman--until Lepsis retired; now he's #2, and easily the best guard, provided he's healthy. Heck, Clinton Portis is in that list, and the only reason he's not still starting for us is we didn't think he was worth the money he wanted (that, and we desperately needed Champ). So there you go; a draft pick that got us Champ Bailey without actually having to draft Champ Bailey. I prefer to wait until we see them on the field before we decide if this years draft class is a boom, bust, or something in the middle.


That's not true Mo. It wasn't that he wasn't worth the money it's that they wanted him to play through his rookie contract before giving him a mega deal.

[sonenlaw]

We need to the list of like-teams drafts (those who have drafted in the late teens and 20s during the same time frame, to then have any sort of qualifier. I'm sure there are teams that are better out there, but we need a tangible way to compare teams to make your argument valid.

no we don't. This isn't about factual arguements, as a matter of fact factual argument is an oxymoron. This is all about opinion and If I sound moronic as some of you have suggested, I'll wear it. But in the meantime until these things that I'm saying are addressed, get used to finishing in the middle of the pack for the next ten years. This franchise has been medicore since Shannahan had the two miracles of a John Elway friendship and lucking out on TD.

[TXBRONC]

no we don't. This isn't about factual arguements, as a matter of fact factual argument is an oxymoron. This is all about opinion and If I sound moronic as some of you have suggested, I'll wear it. But in the meantime until these things that I'm saying are addressed, get used to finishing in the middle of the pack for the next ten years. This franchise has been medicore since Shannahan had the two miracles of a John Elway friendship and lucking out on TD.

Since you're about making opinions why not compare other teams to form an opinion? It kind of sounds like you're afraid to do so.

[SR]

I love how people are so quick to jump the gun on young, unmolded athletes. Give the guys a chance in the game before you judge them. We picked up some good draft pics and we filled some needs. A couple of the picks are questionable, but they may work out in the end.

And LMMFAO @ Cutler being a bad pick. So much for credibility.

[Watchthemiddle]

FOr all we know, the Chiefs might have had the worst draft ever.

2 days after the draft is a little early to say worst drafting franchise in the NFL.

How many "bad" grades have the Patriots gotten over the years after a draft? How did that turn out for them?

Let these players and the ones for the past couple years develop.

Not everyone can come in and be rookie of the year. Not every one of them are going to pan out.

OUt of 9 though, I predict atleast 5 will.

[MOtorboat]

no we don't. This isn't about factual arguements, as a matter of fact factual argument is an oxymoron. This is all about opinion and If I sound moronic as some of you have suggested, I'll wear it. But in the meantime until these things that I'm saying are addressed, get used to finishing in the middle of the pack for the next ten years. This franchise has been medicore since Shannahan had the two miracles of a John Elway friendship and lucking out on TD.

Your argument is that we are the worst drafting franchise. How can you not look at other teams before making that assessment?

[TXBRONC]

Your argument is that we are the worst drafting franchise. How can you not look at other teams before making that assessment?

Maybe it's because he doesn't want to be challenged. :noidea:

[MOtorboat]

Maybe it's because he doesn't want to be challenged. :noidea:

Well, you can't even form that opinion, unless you make a comparison first.

Oh...and that's not every first round pick for the last 15 years.

[sonenlaw]

I meant it only figuratively. The Lions suck more than we do so they obviously draft poorly. So do the Bengals and the Raiders. However I don't recall anyone ever saying the Patriots had a bad draft since Belichoke took over. My wife said the other day, "you don't like Shanahan anymore?" What has turned so dramatically? I said the, "The lights on." Don't you guys want to be good again? How much time does drafting a young QB buy a coach when you see teams win with Eli Manning and Rothlisberger. On those teams I could see what the missing pieces were. Our team looks like swiss cheese. O-line is under construction, WR is under construction, TE is under construction, RB is under construction, entire D-line is under construction, LB is under construction, Special Teams is under construction, Safty is under construction, Coaching staff is under construction. What the heck does a fan have to be optimistic about. This all has been the case since our last Superbowl. With the exception of O-line and LB we just started loosing our line when we lost Gibbs. And we threw Al Wilson onto the trash heap.

[MOtorboat]

I guess I don't know how that could be a figurative question, but I'm not going to argue about your opinion.

It's been my logical experiences that lead me to say I cannot call someone the worst without having compared them to someone else.

[topscribe]

I'm seeing the grass greener everywhere

That seems a common problem in some corners around these parts . . . :coffee:

-----

[TXBRONC]

I meant it only figuratively. The Lions suck more than we do so they obviously draft poorly. So do the Bengals and the Raiders. However I don't recall anyone ever saying the Patriots had a bad draft since Belichoke took over. My wife said the other day, "you don't like Shanahan anymore?" What has turned so dramatically? I said the, "The lights on." Don't you guys want to be good again? How much time does drafting a young QB buy a coach when you see teams win with Eli Manning and Rothlisberger. On those teams I could see what the missing pieces were. Our team looks like swiss cheese. O-line is under construction, WR is under construction, TE is under construction, RB is under construction, entire D-line is under construction, LB is under construction, Special Teams is under construction, Safty is under construction, Coaching staff is under construction. What the heck does a fan have to be optimistic about. This all has been the case since our last Superbowl. With the exception of O-line and LB we just started loosing our line when we lost Gibbs. And we threw Al Wilson onto the trash heap.

Of course I want Denver to be good again but I don't agree with you.

Are really serious about how much time young quarterback buys coach and then go on use Eli Manning a Ben Roethlisberger as your examples? Eli is going into his fifth year as starter and its not like he's been world beater as starting quarterback. Set aside his rookie season and he's thrown high double digit interceptions the past three years '05-'07 17, 18, and 20 interceptions respectively. In fact, up until their Super Bowl run Eli was starting to get labeled a bust.

Roethlisberger is very good quarterback but the Steelers didn't get the Super Bowl on his back, they got there on the strength of their running game and their defense. Another fact big Ben has the worst qb rating of any Super Bowl winning quarterback in the history of the freakin game.

Finally you have to be kidding about throwing Al Wilson on the trash heap. Maybe you haven't heard Al Wilson can't play the game anymore because of neck injury. What's Denver suppose to do? Keep him on the roster even though he can't play anymore? Sorry no team and I do mean no team is going to do that. I admired Al Wilson as player but physically his career was over he had to be released.

[HolyDiver]

Finishing mid tier is an issue for management. We never get a stud player early in the draft and management struggles with rolling the dice. Check out the following draft mistakes.

- Jay Cutler
- Darius Watts
- George Foster
- Jarvis Moss
- Maurice Clarett
- Terry Pierce
- Tatum Bell
- Ashley Lelie
- Willie Middlebrooks
- Deltha O'neal
- Paul Toviessi
- Marcus Nash
- Dan Williams
- Glyn Milburn
- Tommie Maddox
- Shane Dronett
- Mike Croel
- Alton Montgomery
- Gerald Perry
- Ricky Nattiel

Hardly mistakes, I know Cutler being on this list is a joke.............but Croel was Defensive ROY.......Milburn was a very good return guy.....Nattiel caught a TD in the Super Bowl and play pretty well for us.......but yeah, did not live up to his first round pick.................Tatum had almost two consecutive 1000 yard seasons................And Moss, I feel, will have a good year in 2008.......I'm predicting 8 sacks.

[topscribe]

I meant it only figuratively. The Lions suck more than we do so they obviously draft poorly. So do the Bengals and the Raiders. However I don't recall anyone ever saying the Patriots had a bad draft since Belichoke took over. My wife said the other day, "you don't like Shanahan anymore?" What has turned so dramatically? I said the, "The lights on." Don't you guys want to be good again? How much time does drafting a young QB buy a coach when you see teams win with Eli Manning and Rothlisberger. On those teams I could see what the missing pieces were. Our team looks like swiss cheese. O-line is under construction, WR is under construction, TE is under construction, RB is under construction, entire D-line is under construction, LB is under construction, Special Teams is under construction, Safty is under construction, Coaching staff is under construction. What the heck does a fan have to be optimistic about. This all has been the case since our last Superbowl. With the exception of O-line and LB we just started loosing our line when we lost Gibbs. And we threw Al Wilson onto the trash heap.

Wow, you have my condolences. You sound very, very depressed right now. :Cry:

Too bad you can't see the team as it is. I think that would cheer you up.

-----

[topscribe]

Hardly mistakes, I know Cutler being on this list is a joke.............but Croel was Defensive ROY.......Milburn was a very good return guy.....Nattiel caught a TD in the Super Bowl and play pretty well for us.......but yeah, did not live up to his first round pick.................Tatum had almost two consecutive 1000 yard seasons................And Moss, I feel, will have a good year in 2008.......I'm predicting 8 sacks.

It was good for a laugh, though, wasn't it? :lol:

-----

[TXBRONC]

It was good for a laugh, though, wasn't it? :lol:

-----

Humor does wonders for the sole. :D

[MOtorboat]

Hardly mistakes, I know Cutler being on this list is a joke.............but Croel was Defensive ROY.......Milburn was a very good return guy.....Nattiel caught a TD in the Super Bowl and play pretty well for us.......but yeah, did not live up to his first round pick.................Tatum had almost two consecutive 1000 yard seasons................And Moss, I feel, will have a good year in 2008.......I'm predicting 8 sacks.

Not to mention completely forgetting D.J. Williams. :coffee:

[Lonestar]

We haven't been a good drafting team, but yea I agree with you. When you post a list of names and don't include the good picks it kind of negates your argument. If he said look at the percentage of draft picks that are starters, or on the team, or number of pro bowls, etc. vs. other teams then you have an argument.

Also I don't think in the past Shanny has looked at the draft as the sole source for rebuilding his team, hence the large umber of FA's. We also have to have the highest number of undrafted FA make the team because Shanny doesn't let draft mistakes hang around. Some teams would have kept Clarett on the team for at least one year to minimize the fallout from drafting him.


mikeys issues for many years was totally wasting day one talent very few played more than two years that were not LB's

Day one talent should be starters or at least HUGE impact players for more than.. Two years.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=1400&type=team
day one picks
2008 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Ryan Clady -- Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal -- Virginia Tech

2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)


Almost none of these day one DAFTEES made it past TC number 3.

1996 1
1997 2
1998 1
1999 1 but all gone now
2000 3 but all gone now
2001 1 left after first contract Hayward
2002 2 but left before rookie contracts expired
2003 1 but left before rookie contracts expired
2004 2 one force to play out of position for 2 years
2005 2 neither impact players.
2006 looking good so far
2007 to soon to tell but pretty good potential.

This folks is not how you build a team IMO.

[Lonestar]

I meant it only figuratively. The Lions suck more than we do so they obviously draft poorly. So do the Bengals and the Raiders. However I don't recall anyone ever saying the Patriots had a bad draft since Belichoke took over. My wife said the other day, "you don't like Shanahan anymore?" What has turned so dramatically? I said the, "The lights on." Don't you guys want to be good again? How much time does drafting a young QB buy a coach when you see teams win with Eli Manning and Rothlisberger. On those teams I could see what the missing pieces were. Our team looks like swiss cheese. O-line is under construction, WR is under construction, TE is under construction, RB is under construction, entire D-line is under construction, LB is under construction, Special Teams is under construction, Safty is under construction, Coaching staff is under construction. What the heck does a fan have to be optimistic about. This all has been the case since our last Superbowl. With the exception of O-line and LB we just started loosing our line when we lost Gibbs. And we threw Al Wilson onto the trash heap.


outstanding post and probably the only one that sees it as NOT reloading but from the foundation up rebuilding!!

[Hobe]

Frankly, Son you are pretty brutal yourself. You know a lot of Broncos names, but the way you are ripping at Cutler, Shanny and others I was wondering what kind of troll you are; Faiders, Chefs, may Steelers cause you like Rothlisberger. If you are a Broncos fan then you raised negativity to a new high…or is that a new low? Anyway come clean! Are you really a Broncos man or just another smart ass troll!

PS-Don't lie! If your a troll we will find you out and make rude jokes about! :moony:

[sonenlaw]

I guarantee I'm a bigger Broncos fan than you. My allegiance goes deeper than a player, coach or owner. I'm an Elway fan to the core. I care about the team and I have been analyzing for a long time why we line up on Sundays without a legitimate chance to beat the Colts, Chargers and Patriots. We have gone for years w/o being the Kings of the AFC west. I watched Rothlisberger play alot in college at Miami, OH so I have always liked him and I wished we would draft tough gamers instead of soft RB's like ours. We had three RB's on the injured list last season. Wouldn't it be nice to draft a Marion Barber type? Also the post by jrwiz backs what I have already said. Thanks

[slim]

I guarantee I'm a bigger Broncos fan than you. My allegiance goes deeper than a player, coach or owner. I'm an Elway fan to the core. I care about the team and I have been analyzing for a long time why we line up on Sundays without a legitimate chance to beat the Colts, Chargers and Patriots. We have gone for years w/o being the Kings of the AFC west. I watched Rothlisberger play alot in college at Miami, OH so I have always liked him and I wished we would draft tough gamers instead of soft RB's like ours. We had three RB's on the injured list last season. Wouldn't it be nice to draft a Marion Barber type? Also the post by jrwiz backs what I have already said. Thanks

To say you are a "bigger fan" than anyone here is asinine. BTW, we just drafted a running back that is not "soft". I guess that will make you happy? If not, please seek counseling.

[sonenlaw]

To say you are a "bigger fan" than anyone here is asinine. BTW, we just drafted a running back that is not "soft". I guess that will make you happy? If not, please seek counseling.


What Kind of quotes are you using ***EDIT***!

[slim]

What Kind of quotes are you using **Edit**

What?

[sonenlaw]

I can no more disown Jeremiah Wright than I can disown the black community - Barack Hussein Obama

This!

[slim]

I can no more disown Jeremiah Wright than I can disown the black community - Barack Hussein Obama

This!

Well, that is what osama said several months ago. You gotta problem with that, talk to him.

[slim]

What Kind of quotes are you using ***edit***!

BTW, nice use of name calling. Most idiots I know resort to name calling when they have nothing intelligent to say.

[Lonestar]

:focus: NOW!!


This is a good topic stay with it or let it die. :salute:

[shank]

lol i read that as 'stay with it or die' and i was going to send jr a pm reporting jr!


the pats only have 1 of 9 of their guys from last years draft on the roster, and they are widely considered the best drafting team... everyone has bad years, it just seems that shanahan has been unlucky enough to have 11-12 of them!

this draft doesn't seem so bad, but there were still some moves that can be questioned, but i like that we stayed put, took value picks for the most part, and stayed with high character guys. if this draft works out, it could be a sign that things are turning around. if not, then i won't be against hiring a dedicated GM for 09.

[TXBRONC]

I guarantee I'm a bigger Broncos fan than you. My allegiance goes deeper than a player, coach or owner. I'm an Elway fan to the core. I care about the team and I have been analyzing for a long time why we line up on Sundays without a legitimate chance to beat the Colts, Chargers and Patriots. We have gone for years w/o being the Kings of the AFC west. I watched Rothlisberger play alot in college at Miami, OH so I have always liked him and I wished we would draft tough gamers instead of soft RB's like ours. We had three RB's on the injured list last season. Wouldn't it be nice to draft a Marion Barber type? Also the post by jrwiz backs what I have already said. Thanks

First of all Jrwiz is known for being a doom and gloomer around here about everything. So I wouldn't hang my hat on that as justification for your position.

Second there is no way in hell you can guarantee that you're bigger fan than anyone else on this board.

Third other than Q and T. Bell what other "soft" running backs have we drafted that could be considered soft. Mike Anderson, TD, Portis? If that's what you think that wont help you build credibility. Maybe you haven't heard running backs get dinging up quite bit in this league. By the way from what I have read about Torain he's kind the back you're bemoaning that we don't have.

[BigDaddyBronco]

mikeys issues for many years was totally wasting day one talent very few played more than two years that were not LB's

Day one talent should be starters or at least HUGE impact players for more than.. Two years.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=1400&type=team
day one picks
2008 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Ryan Clady -- Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal -- Virginia Tech

2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)


Almost none of these day one DAFTEES made it past TC number 3.

1996 1
1997 2
1998 1
1999 1 but all gone now
2000 3 but all gone now
2001 1 left after first contract Hayward
2002 2 but left before rookie contracts expired
2003 1 but left before rookie contracts expired
2004 2 one force to play out of position for 2 years
2005 2 neither impact players.
2006 looking good so far
2007 to soon to tell but pretty good potential.

This folks is not how you build a team IMO.

One thing to look at in your list Jr, is how many are still playing in the NFL or had some productive years. The fact that they are not on the Broncos (if they are still in the NFL) has nothing to do with the draft, but has everything to do with how you manage the salary cap and player personnel.

Also I would give some credit to Shanny for using the entire draft and FA rookies to build his team. I don't know the stats, but I'm sure we have a pretty high number of 4th round and lower players on the team.

[Lonestar]

One thing to look at in your list Jr, is how many are still playing in the NFL or had some productive years. The fact that they are not on the Broncos (if they are still in the NFL) has nothing to do with the draft, but has everything to do with how you manage the salary cap and player personnel.

Also I would give some credit to Shanny for using the entire draft and FA rookies to build his team. I don't know the stats, but I'm sure we have a pretty high number of 4th round and lower players on the team.


That has been the problem building the team via FA not supplementing it.. That is why the PAT was so pissed this past year.. Wasted money in signing bonuses.. That has a devastating effect when 10-15 mil per year is DEAD caps money..

Most of those players that moved on lets look at them

"Almost none of these day one DAFTEES made it past TC number 3.
2000
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy a player in DET who left us at contract time

2001 1 left after first contract
Hayward could have been retained (Probably at about half of what he signed for when leaving) had we redid his contract before his last year started in TC.. mikey IMO did not trust him to be the player he wound up being in his contract year..

2002 2 but left before rookie contracts expired
1 19 Ashley Lelie we all know what he has accomplished on TWO other teams ZIP.
2 51 Clinton Poortis went on to WAS and did well
3 96 Dorsett Davis UNKNOWN

2003 1 but left before rookie contracts expired
1 20 George Foster fighting for a backup spot in DET
2 51 Terry Pierce teaching high school


2004 2 one force to play out of position for 2 years
1 17 D.J. Williams great WIL forced to play out of position two years mismanagement IMO
2 41 Tatum Bell fighting for a backup slot in DET
2 54 Darius Watts one handed WR great heart but still one handed.

2005 2 neither impact players.
foxy and paymah neither starters and probably never will be. mikey keeps them around because he feels we need 5 or more CB on the roster..

mikey has screwed the pooch for almost a decade in building the team via the draft, and relied to heavily on bringing in aging veterans to plug holes only to find out in 40% of the cases they were unmotivated or unable to play.. Then have to repeat to same thing one to three years later..

Initially when FA happened mikey was a master at it and made the best of it in the super bowl years.. since then he has not done the team any favors with it..IMO

Pat has changed the direction of this team this year by cutting back on FA money and building the team via the draft..

[sonenlaw]

That has been the problem building the team via FA not supplementing it.. That is why the PAT was so pissed this past year.. Wasted money in signing bonuses.. That has a devastating effect when 10-15 mil per year is DEAD caps money..

Most of those players that moved on lets look at them

"Almost none of these day one DAFTEES made it past TC number 3.
2000
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy a player in DET who left us at contract time

2001 1 left after first contract
Hayward could have been retained (Probably at about half of what he signed for when leaving) had we redid his contract before his last year started in TC.. mikey IMO did not trust him to be the player he wound up being in his contract year..

2002 2 but left before rookie contracts expired
1 19 Ashley Lelie we all know what he has accomplished on TWO other teams ZIP.
2 51 Clinton Poortis went on to WAS and did well
3 96 Dorsett Davis UNKNOWN

2003 1 but left before rookie contracts expired
1 20 George Foster fighting for a backup spot in DET
2 51 Terry Pierce teaching high school


2004 2 one force to play out of position for 2 years
1 17 D.J. Williams great WIL forced to play out of position two years mismanagement IMO
2 41 Tatum Bell fighting for a backup slot in DET
2 54 Darius Watts one handed WR great heart but still one handed.

2005 2 neither impact players.
foxy and paymah neither starters and probably never will be. mikey keeps them around because he feels we need 5 or more CB on the roster..

mikey has screwed the pooch for almost a decade in building the team via the draft, and relied to heavily on bringing in aging veterans to plug holes only to find out in 40% of the cases they were unmotivated or unable to play.. Then have to repeat to same thing one to three years later..

Initially when FA happened mikey was a master at it and made the best of it in the super bowl years.. since then he has not done the team any favors with it..IMO

Pat has changed the direction of this team this year by cutting back on FA money and building the team via the draft..

Another great post. Hello fellas! This is what is going on in the Mile High. I wish Shanny was in NYC. The fans and media would be analyzing his mess. Let's put some pressure on this cat. He needs to be working a little harder at his job and stop trying to find ways to get back at Al Davis. If we have a strang team we'll whoop the faiders anyway.

[TXBRONC]

Another great post. Hello fellas! This is what is going on in the Mile High. I wish Shanny was in NYC. The fans and media would be analyzing his mess. Let's put some pressure on this cat. He needs to be working a little harder at his job and stop trying to find ways to get back at Al Davis. If we have a strang team we'll whoop the faiders anyway.

When actually have some real inside information as to what Shanahan is doing let me know. :coffee:

[MOtorboat]

Again...one needs to compare what is going on with other teams who are drafting in like-positions to make any conclusions from any of this.

"oh...but the Chargers..." Yeah...their pick in the late 20s sucked last year.

Please...show us the teams that consistently pick in the 20s who have been consistent in their draft...

They don't exist...because WE are the only team that consistently drafts there.

[topscribe]

Another great post. Hello fellas! This is what is going on in the Mile High. I wish Shanny was in NYC. The fans and media would be analyzing his mess. Let's put some pressure on this cat. He needs to be working a little harder at his job and stop trying to find ways to get back at Al Davis. If we have a strang team we'll whoop the faiders anyway.

Yes, I'm sure Shanny is going to feel a lot of pressure from a message board. :laugh:

-----

[TXBRONC]

Yes, I'm sure Shanny is going to feel a lot of pressure from a message board. :laugh:

-----

Well you know this board is gaining in popularity, it's got to be making him lose sleep at night. :D

[gobroncsnv]

I'd MUCH rather root for a franchise that drafts well but doesn't know how to field a TEAM. :rolleyes:

[TXBRONC]

I'd MUCH rather root for a franchise that drafts well but doesn't know how to field a TEAM. :rolleyes:

No kidding, because hey it's all about the draft not wins and loses. ;)

[sonenlaw]

Desean is faster, but IMO Desean is gonna get KILLED in the pros. ~G

I'm tired of people justifying this pick by saying Jackson will get killed in the pros. That is one of the most un-football-educated arguments I have ever and continue to hear.
Name for me one undersized NFL player that ever got killed, either literally or figuratively? Name one undersized player that had real NFL talent that couldn't make it in the NFL because of his size? Jackson like most small players will add at least 15lbs once he maes the pro transition. and he will be among the same size as Michael lewis, dave meggett, wes welker, Dante Hall, Daren Sproles, Warrick Dunn, Tim Dwight, Chad morton, Allen Rossum, none of these player is listed over 5'10/185lbs. Also not that each team still bumps sizes in the media guide. Marvin Harrison listed at 175lbs which I also doubt. flip to the defensive side and you get much of the same from the guys doing alot of the guarding and hitting of the edge players. The best of those cornerbacks have been Aaron Glenn (5'9". 185), Antoine Winfield (5'9", 180), Ray Mickens (5'8", 180), Tyrone Poole (5'8", 188), Ray Buchanan (5'9", 185), Duane Starks (5'10". 174), Kevin Mathis (5'9", 185) and Jason Webster (5'10", 187), Fernando Bryant (5'10", 175), Chris Cash (5'10", 185), and Dre Bly (5',10", 185), Fred Thomas (5'9", 185). I don't understand the logic that passes on talent, heart and swagger for combine results and workouts. Besides, no WR is ever NFL ready when you draft them so why worry about size when you have time.

BTW. D wayne Rob is a piece of crap. I watched him play at Kentucky and he was a great underachiever. I couldn't believe how high he shot up around draft time. My Louisville Cardinals destroyed him. I didn't even realize that the NFL world knew who he was. I guess if you can workout well in the pro days and combine, there's always a first round sucker. Gotta commed the jets for not resigning him to a major deal and getting burned twice. They may even get a late round pick or better out of the debacle. FireShanny08

[BroncoJoe]

I'm tired of people justifying this pick by saying Jackson will get killed in the pros. That is one of the most un-football-educated arguments I have ever and continue to hear.
Name for me one undersized NFL player that ever got killed, either literally or figuratively? Name one undersized player that had real NFL talent that couldn't make it in the NFL because of his size? Jackson like most small players will add at least 15lbs once he maes the pro transition. and he will be among the same size as Michael lewis, dave meggett, wes welker, Dante Hall, Daren Sproles, Warrick Dunn, Tim Dwight, Chad morton, Allen Rossum, none of these player is listed over 5'10/185lbs. Also not that each team still bumps sizes in the media guide. Marvin Harrison listed at 175lbs which I also doubt. flip to the defensive side and you get much of the same from the guys doing alot of the guarding and hitting of the edge players. The best of those cornerbacks have been Aaron Glenn (5'9". 185), Antoine Winfield (5'9", 180), Ray Mickens (5'8", 180), Tyrone Poole (5'8", 188), Ray Buchanan (5'9", 185), Duane Starks (5'10". 174), Kevin Mathis (5'9", 185) and Jason Webster (5'10", 187), Fernando Bryant (5'10", 175), Chris Cash (5'10", 185), and Dre Bly (5',10", 185), Fred Thomas (5'9", 185). I don't understand the logic that passes on talent, heart and swagger for combine results and workouts. Besides, no WR is ever NFL ready when you draft them so why worry about size when you have time.

BTW. D wayne Rob is a piece of crap. I watched him play at Kentucky and he was a great underachiever. I couldn't believe how high he shot up around draft time. My Louisville Cardinals destroyed him. I didn't even realize that the NFL world knew who he was. I guess if you can workout well in the pro days and combine, there's always a first round sucker. Gotta commed the jets for not resigning him to a major deal and getting burned twice. They may even get a late round pick or better out of the debacle. FireShanny08

Why are you posting this same garbage in multiple threads?

[sonenlaw]

Why are you posting this same garbage in multiple threads?

I didn't know people really wasted their time like I do reading all these different threads. I made the point in the other thread and realized this was the original point I was making in this thread weeks ago, so copied it over to this thread.

*********************EDIT****************EDIT***** *******

[MOtorboat]

I didn't know people really wasted their time like I do reading all these different threads. I made the point in the other thread and realized this was the original point I was making in this thread weeks ago, so copied it over to this thread.

****EDIT*** .

What the hell would be the point of having a message board if there weren't multiple threads...and yes, all sorts of people read all sorts of threads. That's a dumb statement.

[claymore]

I didn't know people really wasted their time like I do reading all these different threads. I made the point in the other thread and realized this was the original point I was making in this thread weeks ago, so copied it over to this thread.

****EDIT**** .
You live with your mom I take it?

[BroncoJoe]

I didn't know people really wasted their time like I do reading all these different threads. I made the point in the other thread and realized this was the original point I was making in this thread weeks ago, so copied it over to this thread.

***edit**** .

Troll. Post reported.

[sonenlaw]

This is your life, not mine. I don't care about this.

[sonenlaw]

Jarvis Moss not progressing well. Wednesday 7/30, 7:20 PM CT

Shortly after OTA season for the NFL, we reported the concerns surrounding the lack of progress for last year's top draft pick in Denver, defensive end Jarvis Moss , were starting to grow. Thus far in training camp, observing media members believe those concerns are growing as Moss has struggled to get on track, according to the Pro Football Weekly.

Our View: PFW reports that while Denver coaches aren’t ready to give up on Moss, it’s beginning to look like his best fit is as a nickel pass rusher. At 6-foot-6 and 245 pounds, Moss is thinly built for a defensive end, and with Elvis Dumervil, who is also undersized, serving as the team's No. 1 defensive right end, Denver can’t afford to start both of them because they would likely be pummeled by the run — a prospect the Broncos fear, having just gone through a season when they ranked 30th in run defense. Moss has been taking snaps with the second-team defense, behind starter John Engelberger, but he runs with the first unit in the nickel opposite Dumervil. Though it will be hard to find a place for Moss, the 17th overall pick in ’07, to contribute if he picks up where he left off last season — struggling to generate a pass rush — word is he’s not in danger of being cut. Moss had one sack in six games during his rookie year before he suffered a season-ending broken shin.

[Lonestar]

if this is true then we have some major concerns IMO.

[turftoad]

if this is true then we have some major concerns IMO.

Moss is listed at 265 and showed up at 245. What the hell!

He sure could have maintained or gained weight in the offseason, one would think if he worked at it.

Maybe he needs to be a LB. Simon Fletcher was 6'6" 245 and he was damn good.

[shank]

i'm sure glad we traded up for him!

[Lonestar]

Moss is listed at 265 and showed up at 245. What the hell!

He sure could have maintained or gained weight in the offseason, one would think if he worked at it.

Maybe he needs to be a LB. Simon Fletcher was 6'6" 245 and he was damn good.


I know coming in that he had a staff infection and the was last years excuse. But he has had a year to bulk up something is not right with him If this 245 is true..

[topscribe]

Nice effort.

How about that trade of draft pick, Chris Hinton, and Mark Hermann for John Elway?

Shameful. Despicable. :tsk:

I still throw up in my mouth over that one . . .

-----

[sonenlaw]

John Elway was the greatest move in the history of sports. I believe we had divine intervention on that move. Mind you, we didn't "DRAFT" John Elway. If we had the 1# draft pick that year, I'm afraid we would have taken an offensive lineman instead of Elway.

[Lonestar]

John Elway was the greatest move in the history of sports. I believe we had divine intervention on that move. Mind you, we didn't "DRAFT" John Elway. If we had the 1# draft pick that year, I'm afraid we would have taken an offensive lineman instead of Elway.

reeves might have..

mikey would have been salivating all off season..

[BroncoWave]

Finishing mid tier is an issue for management. We never get a stud player early in the draft and management struggles with rolling the dice. Check out the following draft mistakes.

- Jay Cutler


Stopped reading here. This post is worthless.

[TXBRONC]

John Elway was the greatest move in the history of sports. I believe we had divine intervention on that move. Mind you, we didn't "DRAFT" John Elway. If we had the 1# draft pick that year, I'm afraid we would have taken an offensive lineman instead of Elway.

Hello we did take take an offensive lineman in first round of the '83 draft. :rolleyes:

[sonenlaw]

I just wanted to revisit a couple of discussions from a year ago. One was Action Jackson'z ability to be a good pro and how Denver should have drafted him. Eddie Royal may be OK as he was explosive for a number of games. Dewayne Robertson being useless as a FA pickup.

Later I will comment dtafting ineptitude on such as Jarvis Moss, Crowder, Tatum Bell and last but not least the A-hola Jay Cutler. I said he wasn't a winner, but was a great winer and the move would backfire on us.

This doesn't mean that we should have brough in McDaniels. I think we should waited. We didn't need to jump as soon as we did. We could have ended up with Gruden. Can you imaging having another coach with an axe to grind against the raiders. Or at least gone after Bob Stoops.

[claymore]

I just wanted to revisit a couple of discussions from a year ago. One was Action Jackson'z ability to be a good pro and how Denver should have drafted him. Eddie Royal may be OK as he was explosive for a number of games. Dewayne Robertson being useless as a FA pickup.

Later I will comment dtafting ineptitude on such as Jarvis Moss, Crowder, Tatum Bell and last but not least the A-hola Jay Cutler. I said he wasn't a winner, but was a great winer and the move would backfire on us.

This doesn't mean that we should have brough in McDaniels. I think we should waited. We didn't need to jump as soon as we did. We could have ended up with Gruden. Can you imaging having another coach with an axe to grind against the raiders. Or at least gone after Bob Stoops.

Your hindsight is awesome.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Better than no sight at all.