Anyone else think we should add a real FB to this offense?

[Ziggy]

..... or just keep these hybrid fb/rb's like Cecil Sapp? We haven't had a true FB since Howard Griffith left. I'd love to see the Broncos bring in an old school, line up and smash 'em in the faced FB with either a mid to late round pick or through free agency. I want the kind of guy that doesn't care if he gets 10 carries or none, as long as he gets to go out and pound some defensive players. Anyone else?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I would love to add a real fullback, but we run so many multiple tight end sets, that the fullback has become almost non-existent here in Denver. With Scheffler and Graham here, I don't see that changing any time soon.

[Slick]

Absolutely!!!

I'm of the opinion that a good FB can only help the running and passing game, especially in the redzone.

It might allow Graham to actually go out and run a route or two.

Yes please.

[r8rh8r]

Ya I am a huge Howard Griffith guy and would love to have that kind of talent back in town, but we've become so reliant on one-back sets its hard to justify investing in a top-shelf fullback talent. I just don't think we have enough snaps for that kind of player. If we weren't so heavily invested in Graham and Scheffler I'd say go for it. If we want to make that change, its gonna be a while.

[Ziggy]

I would love to add a real fullback, but we run so many multiple tight end sets, that the fullback has become almost non-existent here in Denver. With Scheffler and Graham here, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Dream, do you think that Shanahan runs the multiple tight end sets because that's what he thinks will work best, or just because he hasn't had a FB worth keeping in the game? We all know he's a master of adjustments. Hence, the constant rolling pocket and bootlegs with Plummer. Shanny's best running offenses were with a true FB. Granted, we had a better O-line, QB,WR's, RB, and TE, but I still have to wonder which way Shanny would go if he had a great FB to put in.

[Slick]

I would love to add a real fullback, but we run so many multiple tight end sets, that the fullback has become almost non-existent here in Denver. With Scheffler and Graham here, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Unfortunately, I think you're right Dream.

On the other side of that, I remember a jumbo package in the redzone that included House Carsewell, Sharpe, and Howard Griffith bringing us a lot of success.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Dream, do you think that Shanahan runs the multiple tight end sets because that's what he thinks will work best, or just because he hasn't had a FB worth keeping in the game? We all know he's a master of adjustments. Hence, the constant rolling pocket and bootlegs with Plummer. Shanny's best running offenses were with a true FB. Granted, we had a better O-line, QB,WR's, RB, and TE, but I still have to wonder which way Shanny would go if he had a great FB to put in.

Over the past two years, I think the emphasis on tight ends have been due in part to several factors.

(A) We drafted Tony Scheffler who the Broncos believe can be a great pass catching tight end; and is a hard weapon to guard against. When he's in the game, the Broncos move the chains.

(B) We paid Daniel Graham a lot of money. He might as well see the field, right?

(C) Our offensive tackles (Pears in particular) were terrible last year. We need that extra blocker out there because if he's not there, we're getting blown up off the edge. At least having Graham out there gave us a chance.

On a side note, I think it's more of these three than anything -- but tight ends are a young quarterbacks best friends. Easy reads on the field, they're there for you when you need 'em. I think this rings true considering the rapport Jay has with Tony.

Secondly, Denver's more interested in a drop back passing game -- and not a bootleg festival like they were with Cutler. More receiving options, and with Denver having some available weapons, why put an easy dump read there in a full back when we have Brandon, Tony, Daniel and now Darrell, Sammie and Keary to toss the ball to? So essentially, where is the full back fitting in there?

Heck, I'd love to have a smashmouth lead blocking fullback to help us in the run game (because clearly Sapp, etc. aren't that) -- but I think until our tackles prove themselves worthy, we'll have a hand holder on one of them almost constantly. That is what I think is hurting this offense more than anything; and which is why we need to get tackles in there who can sustain themselves.

It opens up so much more for the team as a whole when the lines can be effective. I mean, last year is living proof!

[r8rh8r]

The formation I saw last year that frustrated me was split backs in the shotgun. Is that supposed to be some kind of max protect scheme? Selvin Young is so helpless against the blitz, what was the point?

The advantage of having a fullback or H-back is that you get a top-notch blocker to protect your QB. If we want to run so many one-back sets, we're gonna have to get a player versatile enough to do it all.

When Plummer was here it didn't matter because he couldn't throw in the pocket anyway. Cutler isn't the same guy.

[Ziggy]

The formation I saw last year that frustrated me was split backs in the shotgun. Is that supposed to be some kind of max protect scheme? Selvin Young is so helpless against the blitz, what was the point?

The advantage of having a fullback or H-back is that you get a top-notch blocker to protect your QB. If we want to run so many one-back sets, we're gonna have to get a player versatile enough to do it all.

When Plummer was here it didn't matter because he couldn't throw in the pocket anyway. Cutler isn't the same guy.


People forget just how good TD was at picking up the blitz. Still the best I've ever seen. When he went out for a breather, the Broncos would often times use Griffith in a 1 back set, rather than the backup RB.

[r8rh8r]

People forget just how good TD was at picking up the blitz. Still the best I've ever seen. When he went out for a breather, the Broncos would often times use Griffith in a 1 back set, rather than the backup RB.

I'm gonna go Edgerrin James on this one, but TD is certainly in the conversation. Griffith is among the more underrated players in Broncos history. That says a lot considering the long list of hall-of-fame snubs we have. Two guys in the hall despite winning 6 AFC championships in 30 years and 2 SB's. Wow. Are we just lucky or what?

[Broncospsycho77]

I'm not opposed to it at all... in fact, we could even go as far as getting Hester from LSU, who will probably play FB in the NFL a la Alsott with a little blocking here, and a handoff or two there for critical yardage or a trick play... we could use a guy to punch in those one yarders, and he could fill that void easily.

[G_Money]

I'd love a real FB in the draft.

We DO use a lot of two-TE sets but that's partly because we don't really have a quality FB. If we did we could mix packages a lot more. A one-TE/ One-FB set as "max protect" for blitz pickups that a 2 TE set isn't as strong at, for instance.

And it's a decent draft for FBs, with some good ones likely to go undrafted even.

I'd like Owen, because he's just a mangler who loves the game more than life itself, but I'd take somebody like Dionte Johnson as a UDFA if it came to that.

I'm a Sapp fan, but if we're not gonna use him as a hard-nosed runner because we already have THenry for that, then at least get a FB in here who can lead-block and blitz-protect like a crazy heathen with hair on fire...

~G

[r8rh8r]

I'd love a real FB in the draft.

We DO use a lot of two-TE sets but that's partly because we don't really have a quality FB. If we did we could mix packages a lot more. A one-TE/ One-FB set as "max protect" for blitz pickups that a 2 TE set isn't as strong at, for instance.

And it's a decent draft for FBs, with some good ones likely to go undrafted even.

I'd like Owen, because he's just a mangler who loves the game more than life itself, but I'd take somebody like Dionte Johnson as a UDFA if it came to that.

I'm a Sapp fan, but if we're not gonna use him as a hard-nosed runner because we already have THenry for that, then at least get a FB in here who can lead-block and blitz-protect like a crazy heathen with hair on fire...

~G

I don't think Denver plans on running a lot of 1 TE sets while Graham and Scheffler are in town. They aren't going to switch gears after tying so much money up in both players. That said, FB is a possibility in this year's draft given that we have Cecil for 1 more year and no other FB on the roster.

[shank]

most definitley. owen schmitt would be ideal, hes good. i like mike cox as a late rounder as well.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Is Howard Griffith available

[Buff]

Honestly, I'm more concerned with who our long snapper will be than who will play FB... IMO, it's not that hard to find a guy who's not quite quick enough to play RB, that can also block. I think Cecil Sapp does a fine job when he's in there.

Kicker and Punter are more pressing needs on the 2nd day.

[rcsodak]

I'm not opposed to it at all... in fact, we could even go as far as getting Hester from LSU, who will probably play FB in the NFL a la Alsott with a little blocking here, and a handoff or two there for critical yardage or a trick play... we could use a guy to punch in those one yarders, and he could fill that void easily.

Peyton Hillis, Arkansas
6' 245#

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=32821

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If we want a real hard nosed, blocking FB...Schmitt is the only real option in my eyes. Hillis and Hester are eitehr too finesse or too small. Schmitt is a no nonsense bruiser who can also carry the rock. He delivers a blow and falls forward when tackled. Hillis played in a crazy offense and I wouldn't dare call him a real FB. Hester weighs 225.

[shank]

i agree smilin' i see hillis and hester both in the same vein as cecil... tweeners.

but i think mike cox in the 7th would be a good value if we wanted a true blocking fullback.

[rcsodak]

If we want a real hard nosed, blocking FB...Schmitt is the only real option in my eyes. Hillis and Hester are eitehr too finesse or too small. Schmitt is a no nonsense bruiser who can also carry the rock. He delivers a blow and falls forward when tackled. Hillis played in a crazy offense and I wouldn't dare call him a real FB. Hester weighs 225.

A "crazy offense" that racked up some crazy rushing yards in the SEC. I'd take that most any day..... ;)

Plus, he led the team in receptions for 2yrs. And everybody knows how Shanny likes to use the fb as another receiver.

I dunno...I'd sure like to see another HGriff leading the way for the rb's, and the team using the run game as their initial threat again.

..sigh....

[LRtagger]

Even if we used a 4th on a FB for redzone offense only, it would be more than worth it. Our short yardage running game is one of the worst in the league...I dont care what the stats show us ranked at in total rushing yards. We suck on 3rd and short and inside the 20. A bulldozing FB would turn that around.

I have been harping on Schmitt in the 4th since the offseason started, but there is a slim to none chance it happens.

[Ziggy]

Even if we used a 4th on a FB for redzone offense only, it would be more than worth it. Our short yardage running game is one of the worst in the league...I dont care what the stats show us ranked at in total rushing yards. We suck on 3rd and short and inside the 20. A bulldozing FB would turn that around.

I have been harping on Schmitt in the 4th since the offseason started, but there is a slim to none chance it happens.

Being a Schmitt fan myself, that's who I had in mind when I started this thread. He wouldn't fix all of our red zone woes, but he sure would help.

[CoachChaz]

He should be there in the 5th. Anything sooner is too high for a fullback

[Slick]

He should be there in the 5th. Anything sooner is too high for a fullback

I've read somewhere that Schmitt is a possibility to go to the Bills in the third. I'll put a link if I can find one, but it's heresay anyways. We'll find out soon enough.

[Hoshdude7]

Jacob Hester!

[BOSSHOGG30]

I like Rolly Lumbala and Jed Collins

[Superchop 7]

Schmitt would be a great assett to us.

He will block anything that moves.

He will bring the kind of heart to the team that Rod Smith and Al Wilson possessed.

With an unsettled LT position, we need a guy that can help the o-line, we don't need Cutler on IR.

He is the type of player that fans can identify with, thus, he will put butts in the seats and fire in the community.

[shank]

everything i've seen on schmitt has him graded in the 4th to 5th and i would love it if he was there in the 4th for us.

i just think there is one team that will really want this guy and will pull the trigger early on him in the late 3rd or early 4th. i just hope we don't pass him up if he happens to be there for us in the 4th.

[Npba900]

I'm excited about the slew of FB's available in this years draft. Also, there's a big short yardage power RB who seems to have fallen under the radar and could be a sleeper! Here's a list and short bio stats on whom I believe Denver should strongly consider drafting in the later rounds.

JEHUU CAULCRICK, RB, 6'0-260. Overview:
The latest example of a player with a halfback's mentality stuck in a fullback's body, Caulcrick is a productive interior runner who enjoyed a breakout senior campaign, scoring 21 rushing touchdowns for the Spartans. Caulcrick has the size and explosiveness as a short-yardage runner to remain at running back, but his lack of speed and elusiveness make his best shot at the NFL as a fullback. To do so, he'll have to demonstrate more tenacity and strength as a blocker.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jehuu-caulcrick?id=1355

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_cSqh0hyOc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAljSBJrOrQ&feature=related

MIKE COX, FB, 5-11-254, Overview
Aptly nicknamed "The Bull," the success of the Tech tailbacks over the last three years has been the result of the devastating lead blocks executed by Cox as the team's battering ram for a fullback. He rarely gets an opportunity to touch the ball, but relishes his role of punishing defenders as he drives through the rush lanes.

ANALYSIS:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mike-cox?id=4235


JROME FELTON, FB, 6'0-246, Overview
Felton has quietly developed into one of the most dominant scoring machines in college football. Blessed with the quickness and lateral agility of a tailback, this bruising runner inside the red zone has outstanding body lean, as he was tackled behind the line of scrimmage only 15 times during his career for minus-22 yards on 575 rushing attempts while scoring 63 times on the ground. The school's all-time record holder in scoring with 414 points, he also excels in the classroom, twice earning Southern Conference academic accolades with a 3.25 grade point average in Political Science.

ANALYSIS:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jerome-felton?id=230

YOU TUBE:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JEROME+FELTON&search_type=

Here's the only you tube of Cox throwing a block that free's up his RB:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mike-cox?id=4235 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mike-cox?id=4235)

Brandon Anderson, 5'11-238-245, this guypiqued my interest and would be a great fit for Denver's "one re really ad"--"one cut" and run down hill zone blocking scheme. Scouts or analyisis say Andersen was not fast enough for RB in the NFL and would be better suited as a FB. However, after watching his you tube video, I'd say Anderson is a powerful runner who play etither RB or FB.

http://www.youtube.com/results?
search_query=Brandon+McAnderson+&search_type= (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Brandon+McAnderson+&search_type=)

ANALYSIS:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/brandon-mcanderson?id=4279 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/brandon-mcanderson?id=4279)

OVERVIEW:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/brandon-mcanderson?id=4279

MATT FORTE, 6'2-222, This guy appears to be another player crusing under the radar or at least no one is talking about him much. Has a well-built frame with thick thighs and calves, V-shaped upper torso with muscular arms, tight abdomen and broad shoulders...Shows good initial quickness and adequate elusiveness for a rare sized halfback...Has the ability to take a hit and keep his feet to break arm tackles...His catching ability is above average, as he is sudden out of his breaks and shows good hand extension to catch outside his frame...Has an adequate burst of speed, but is precise in his cuts and hits the holes aggressively, squaring his shoulders to execute through trash...Shows good vision and field awareness, as he is developing into an efficient cut blocker...Does a good job being patient and waiting for blocks to develop and has the vision to easily locate the cutback lanes...Is very decisive through the holes, picking his feet well while displaying the body lean to fall forward and gain additional yardage after the initial hit...Is very alert to stunts and blitzes, doing a nice job of facing up to the defender in pass protection...His effort and drive is good taking the ball up the middle and also demonstrates the second gear to elude along the perimeter...Runs hard and ends most of his carries going forward...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbaIF22NGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEfWGej1Na8&feature=related

OVERVIEW:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/matt-forte?id=234

[TXBRONC]

Being a Schmitt fan myself, that's who I had in mind when I started this thread. He wouldn't fix all of our red zone woes, but he sure would help.


I could not agree more.

[Tned]

I haven't had time to follow this thread, but will reiterate something I said earlier.

I would rather see the Broncos run more one back sets with two TEs and two WRs or one TE and three WRs (depending on where our WR corps flesh out with Javon gone and Marshall's injury).

Using an FB on occaission or motioning graham into the backfield as a FB once in a while.

Basically, I would like to see the Broncos do more formation shifting and trickery, but provide the greater passing flexibility and protection they get by not using an FB. The key is having a RB that can flourish in a one back set.

[I Bleed Orange and Blue]

we could deffinately use one......all the teams in the league are moving away from the true FB and honestly if we had one, teams would have to change their defense to adjust for a FB/power running game. If you look at the big 10 alone this year there are some quality FB's out there.....would be nice to get one.

[I Bleed Orange and Blue]

ps....when you look at the run scheme we used against indy in the first quarter this year.....(we even had ses with no WR's) we domintated the run game and couldn't stop us. Then we fell behind and were forced to give that up.......but i think it would be interesting to change more of that up this year and keep teams off balance.

[rcsodak]

Dang I hate being right all the time..... :beer:



:D


Hey nomad! You/me got 'er dun!!!!! lol

[Lonestar]

Dang I hate being right all the time..... :beer:



:D

you about ready for W-L predictions for next year?

[rcsodak]

you about ready for W-L predictions for next year?

bring 'em on, jr.....when I remember to post em.... ;)

...though I do better with points spreads....*sigh*

[TXBRONC]

I haven't had time to follow this thread, but will reiterate something I said earlier.

I would rather see the Broncos run more one back sets with two TEs and two WRs or one TE and three WRs (depending on where our WR corps flesh out with Javon gone and Marshall's injury).

Using an FB on occaission or motioning graham into the backfield as a FB once in a while.

Basically, I would like to see the Broncos do more formation shifting and trickery, but provide the greater passing flexibility and protection they get by not using an FB. The key is having a RB that can flourish in a one back set.


Maybe it's just me but I think that one back sets require big power backs like Torain.

[rcsodak]

Maybe it's just me but I think that one back sets require big power backs like Torain.

It's not just you, TX! :listen: :beer: ;);)

Plus, TD needed a stud in front of him, and that was during the OLines' heydays!

[Lonestar]

It's not just you, TX! :listen: :beer: ;);)

Plus, TD needed a stud in front of him, and that was during the OLines' heydays!

You do mean the Zimmerman style OLINE didn't you??

not the finesse type we have had the past couple of years..

[rcsodak]

You do mean the Zimmerman style OLINE didn't you??

not the finesse type we have had the past couple of years..

Well, call it what you will, jr, but it was the same scheme: ZB.:salute:

Granted, there isn't a stink or a zim on the line....but my point was they STILL had a FB leading the way for TD, regardless of the blockers. ;)

[Lonestar]

Well, call it what you will, jr, but it was the same scheme: ZB.:salute:

Granted, there isn't a stink or a zim on the line....but my point was they STILL had a FB leading the way for TD, regardless of the blockers. ;)

After those years it was easy to fall into the ZBS mystique that it was the system and any one could be great in it.. But the real group was the old guys with attitude and a real FB leading the way..

Not this past group of ZBS wannabes running at will between the 20's..

[Scarface]

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/56336543.jpg

[Buffalo_Soldier]

I think the team needs someone like a Lawrence Vickers type H Back (or more properly known in Colorado as a V back). Not just a blocker but someone who can carry and catch as well and diversify the backfield. But it doesn't really matter until Denver establishes who they're go to back is.

[TXBRONC]

I think the team needs someone like a Lawrence Vickers type H Back (or more properly known in Colorado as a V back). Not just a blocker but someone who can carry and catch as well and diversify the backfield. But it doesn't really matter until Denver establishes who they're go to back is.


This Hollis kid that we drafted from Arkansas can do those things from the fullback position.

By the way, welcome to Broncos Forums.

[SM19]

It'd be nice to have a traditional fullback, but at the same time, I can't complain about a weapon like Hillis.