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turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:12 AM
...in less than a year.

By Josh McDaniels

Discuss:

Northman
04-14-2010, 09:14 AM
http://spitfiremurphy.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/crybaby8.jpg

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:16 AM
http://spitfiremurphy.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/crybaby8.jpg

Sorry North but I think we'll all be crying by the end of next season.

Northman
04-14-2010, 09:18 AM
Sorry North but I think we'll all be crying by the end of next season.


Times are tough no doubt but thats the way it goes in the NFL. You have your ups and downs before it gets better. Maybe Josh isnt the answer just like Phillips wasnt before Shanahan got here but ill still be here enjoying watching my team play their hearts out. I get more disheartened watching fellow Bronco fans give up so easily than i do about players coming or going. :tsk:

Shame really.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:24 AM
Times are tough no doubt but thats the way it goes in the NFL. You have your ups and downs before it gets better. Maybe Josh isnt the answer just like Phillips wasnt before Shanahan got here but ill still be here enjoying watching my team play their hearts out. I get more disheartened watching fellow Bronco fans give up so easily than i do about players coming or going. :tsk:

Shame really.

Oh, I haven't given up (I've been a Bronco fan since before McD was born, so no reason to tell me about ups and downs) but I'm not happy either. McD will be gone in a year or two and there is nothing left for his replacement to work with.

Northman
04-14-2010, 09:26 AM
Oh, I haven't given up but I'm not happy either. McD will be gone in a year or two and there is nothing left for his replacement to work with.

Maybe. Maybe not. A lot of us expected to play worse than we did last year as well so who knows how this season will turn out.

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 09:28 AM
I personally think we were having our up swiing when we had Clady,Harris, Cutler, Marshall, Royal,Scheffler, Hillis as the YOUNG nucleus of our offense

WARHORSE
04-14-2010, 09:28 AM
BM faked injury to hurt the team.

This is his legacy in Denver.

That isnt Josh McDs fault.


Goodbye brandon, and dont let the door hit you on the way out.


Take your baggage as well, you'll need it in Miami.

Northman
04-14-2010, 09:29 AM
I personally think we were having our up swiing when we had Clady,Harris, Cutler, Marshall, Royal,Scheffler, Hillis as the YOUNG nucleus of our offense

Unfortuantely, the w/l record says differently.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 09:31 AM
Unfortuantely, the w/l record says differently.

It will after this year, I would not be surprised if we ended up in the cellar of the AFC West, now that is scary!

Northman
04-14-2010, 09:34 AM
It will after this year, I would not be surprised if we ended up in the cellar of the AFC West, now that is scary!

Could happen and you know what? Ill still be a here and a HUGE Bronco fan. You with me or you going to tuck tail and run? :salute:

JONtheBRONCO
04-14-2010, 09:38 AM
Because complaining about it is going to solve everything...

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:40 AM
Because complaining about it is going to solve everything...

So..... for those of us that aren't happy, we're just supposes to put on our orange tinted glasses and be happy??

I don't think so.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 09:41 AM
Could happen and you know what? Ill still be a here and a HUGE Bronco fan. You with me or you going to tuck tail and run? :salute:

I'll always be a Bronco fan... I can hate the coach, the quarterback and so on, but I will always bleed orange and blue!

;)

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:42 AM
I'll always be a Bronco fan... I can hate the coach, the quarterback and so on, but I will always bleed orange and blue!

;)

Got that right. :beer:

JONtheBRONCO
04-14-2010, 09:44 AM
So..... for those of us that aren't happy, we're just supposes to put on our orange tinted glasses and be happy??

I don't think so.

No, you can be upset. I don't care. You can be upset and still not complain about it or call out the coach. I mean it is what it is. Right now we are all speculating. Both sides. But I'd rather be positive and hope it will work out instead of raise my white flag in defeat, whenever the 2010 season hasn't even started.... ya know?

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 09:45 AM
So..... for those of us that aren't happy, we're just supposes to put on our orange tinted glasses and be happy??

I don't think so.

It's just my opinion, but at least trying to look at the positives could be an option. When a few people focus on the negative and rampantly post nothing but negative comments...it gets old. There are people here that hate what is happening, people that like what is happening and people that are waiting to see what happens. All three have a few things in common.

1. We all love the Broncos no matter what.

2. We're all curious and probably a little nervous about what will happen with our team under McD's regime.

3. NONE of us know what will or will not happen after the changes. Maybe we become a better team...maybe we get worse. But for the love of God can we please stop pretending we have crystal balls or that we know more than NFL personnel when we look into our crystal balls and proclaim greatness or misery for this team in the future?

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:47 AM
No, you can be upset. I don't care. You can be upset and still not complain about it or call out the coach. I mean it is what it is. Right now we are all speculating. Both sides. But I'd rather be positive and hope it will work out instead of raise my white flag in defeat, whenever the 2010 season hasn't even started.... ya know?

If I hate the coach, you're damn right I can complain about him. The only thing I look forward to is the day he is fired.
If he turns it around, I'll more than gladly eat my fair share of crow but I don't see it happening.

weazel
04-14-2010, 09:50 AM
...in less than a year.

By Josh McDaniels

Discuss:

if Marshall was THE franchise, the Broncos were in deep shit

Nomad
04-14-2010, 09:50 AM
If I hate the coach, you're damn right I can complain about him. The only thing I look forward to is the day he is fired.
If he turns it around, I'll more than gladly eat my fair share of crow but I don't see it happening.

Why not wait and see before overreacting with a thread like this!

Thnikkaman
04-14-2010, 09:52 AM
...in less than a year.

By Josh McDaniels

Discuss:

I decreased my frequency of visits to this board because you all are a bunch of ******* whiners.

Please get that sand castle out of your vagina and come back when the Midol kicks in.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:53 AM
Why not wait and see before overreacting with a thread like this!

Not an overreaction. Just an opinion. This shit has been going on for a year now.
Sorry if you don't share my opinion. Sorry if I don't have my orange tinted glasses on right now. I'm having a hard time finding them. ;)

Nomad
04-14-2010, 09:53 AM
I decreased my frequency of visits to this board because you all are a bunch of ******* whiners.

Please get that sand castle out of your vagina and come back when the Midol kicks in.

Damn! :eek:

turftoad
04-14-2010, 09:54 AM
I decreased my frequency of visits to this board because you all are a bunch of ******* whiners.

Please get that sand castle out of your vagina and come back when the Midol kicks in.

Glad to see you Thnik!!

SOCALORADO.
04-14-2010, 09:55 AM
I decreased my frequency of visits to this board because you all are a bunch of ******* whiners.

Please get that sand castle out of your vagina and come back when the Midol kicks in.

Thats so weird cause alot of us here stopped or decreased our frequency in going to other sites for the same reason!

this board is still doing much better than the other bronco boards.

claymore
04-14-2010, 09:57 AM
I decreased my frequency of visits to this board because you all are a bunch of ******* whiners.

Please get that sand castle out of your vagina and come back when the Midol kicks in.

Im sure thats the reason.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 09:57 AM
Not an overreaction. Just an opinion. This shit has been going on for a year now.
Sorry if you don't share my opinion. Sorry if I don't have my orange tinted glasses on right now. I'm having a hard time finding them. ;)

Waiting and seeing doesn't have anything to do with orange colored glasses. IMO, you're above this sort of stuff, turf, and at the end of the year if this team is in the same situation or worse I'm sure more people will be on the lynch mob. Until then, it's seeing what the coach can do plus Marshall hated Denver before McD got here and I believe most of this stems for many of you being butthurt over an overrated QB who wanted to leave the BRONCOS!!

turftoad
04-14-2010, 10:02 AM
Waiting and seeing doesn't have anything to do with orange colored glasses. IMO, you're above this sort of stuff, turf, and at the end of the year if this team is in the same situation or worse I'm sure more people will be on the lynch mob. Until then, it's seeing what the coach can do plus Marshall hated Denver before McD got here and I believe most of this stems for many of you being butthurt over an overrated QB who wanted to leave the BRONCOS!!

Butthurt because of many, many things McD has done. :D Just don't like the guy, what can I say.

LordTrychon
04-14-2010, 10:03 AM
People please.

Calm down.

This is a discussion forum. It's meant for opinions and thoughts. People should be open to share and discuss them.

So everyone, share your warm and positive thoughts. That's what the forums for. Everyone else, you're clearly not really fans.

scott.475
04-14-2010, 10:03 AM
No one should be surprised by this move, no one. I have yet to be a huge supporter of McD's, still hoping he proves me wrong. But, we are where we are, it may be very ugly from here on out, may not.

Dismantling the team? Yes, that is probably a fair statement, but not necessarily bad. There is virtually nothing in common between McD's and Shanahan's coaching philosophies, and while no one in the Bronco's organization has used the term "rebuilding", I think it is pretty clear that is what we are doing. McD was given the keys to the family car to do as he wishes, and it is clear he is working on dismantling the Shanahan Broncos in order to create a hopefully better McD Broncos.

Again, I am no big supporter of McD's just yet, but getting rid of Marshall is actually the least concerning thing, in my mind, that he has done. We are stuck with McD for at least a couple more years so I am going to work on keeping a good attitude.

Regardless of whether this works or not, I will still be a Bronco fan forever. Why folks on opposing sides of any situation regarding the Broncos feel compelled to call the other side being "on the badnwagon" or "off the bandwagon", "fairweather", or any other term over a simple DIFFERENCE OF OPINION is beyond me. This is, after all, a DISCUSSION BOARD. I don't recall any rule stating that we must all agree, remain positive regardless of what is happening, or that we must swear allegiance to any one player or coach.

As far as I can tell, we are all pretty passionate Bronco's fans around here, and I disagree with plenty of things people post over one topic or another, but I would NEVER question whether they are true fans of the Broncos. I was a Bronco fan before I was born, was 6 years old when they went to their first Superbowl and STILL remember how exciting that time was. I have maintained my passion for them despite having lived in the God-foresaken state of Washington for over 20 years, and NO ONE can question my love or passion for the Broncos over a difference of opinion. I think the same is true for most of us here.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 10:05 AM
No one should be surprised by this move, no one. I have yet to be a huge supporter of McD's, still hoping he proves me wrong. But, we are where we are, it may be very ugly from here on out, may not.

Dismantling the team? Yes, that is probably a fair statement, but not necessarily bad. There is virtually nothing in common between McD's and Shanahan's coaching philosophies, and while no one in the Bronco's organization has used the term "rebuilding", I think it is pretty clear that is what we are doing. McD was given the keys to the family car to do as he wishes, and it is clear he is working on dismantling the Shanahan Broncos in order to create a hopefully better McD Broncos.

Again, I am no big supporter of McD's just yet, but getting rid of Marshall is actually the least concerning thing, in my mind, that he has done. We are stuck with McD for at least a couple more years so I am going to work on keeping a good attitude.

Regardless of whether this works or not, I will still be a Bronco fan forever. Why folks on opposing sides of any situation regarding the Broncos feel compelled to call the other side being "on the badnwagon" or "off the bandwagon", "fairweather", or any other term over a simple DIFFERENCE OF OPINION is beyond me. This is, after all, a DISCUSSION BOARD. I don't recall any rule stating that we must all agree, remain positive regardless of what is happening, or that we must swear allegiance to any one player of coach.

As far as I can tell, we are all pretty passionate Bronco's fans around here, and I disagree with plenty of things people post over one topic or another, but I would NEVER question whether they are true fans of the Broncos. I was a Bronco fan before I was born, was 6 years old when they went to their first Superbowl and STILL remember how exciting that time was. I have maintained my passion for them despite having lived in the God-foresaken state of Washington for over 20 years, and NO ONE can question my love or passion for the Broncos over a difference of opinion. I think the same is true for most of us here.

Well put, thank you.

Thnikkaman
04-14-2010, 10:07 AM
Please form your opinion in a way that doesn't make it sound like you are whining.

T.K.O.
04-14-2010, 10:09 AM
do we play miami this year ?......that would be AWESOME !:beer:

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:11 AM
Waiting and seeing doesn't have anything to do with orange colored glasses. IMO, you're above this sort of stuff, turf, and at the end of the year if this team is in the same situation or worse I'm sure more people will be on the lynch mob. Until then, it's seeing what the coach can do plus Marshall hated Denver before McD got here and I believe most of this stems for many of you being butthurt over an overrated QB who wanted to leave the BRONCOS!!

I'm so sick of this effing bullshit of calling peopel upset about McD and what he's done "butthurt" because of the Cutler trade. That was just the start.

We are no more "butthurt" than those of you complaining, about the complainers. You seem to be 'butthurt' that there are some posters disgusted with McD.

This team was better with the "over rated" QB, and was better with the "over rated" WR. But because they don't wear the orange-n-blue.. they suck and are 'over rated' and anyone that liked them are 'butthurt.'

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:13 AM
Please form your opinion in a way that doesn't make it sound like you are whining.

This sounds like whining about other posters. If you don't like what they are saying, stay out of the thread. Don't respond and feed the thread. Don't comment that will then bring back another comment. Don't be negative towards a negative post... because it sure as hell isn't making it appear as though you are anything other than another whiner.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 10:14 AM
Gee Ravage you got me shaking you're such a badass who is butthurt!:lol: may you and the other can rub each other to feel better!!

BigBroncLove
04-14-2010, 10:14 AM
do we play miami this year ?......that would be AWESOME !:beer:

I don't think so.... I think we pulled the AFC South and the AFC team we play based on rank from the AFC East is the Jets.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 10:14 AM
Not an overreaction. Just an opinion. This shit has been going on for a year now.
Sorry if you don't share my opinion. Sorry if I don't have my orange tinted glasses on right now. I'm having a hard time finding them. ;)

More than that if you count the last few years of Shanny's regime.

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:15 AM
No one should be surprised by this move, no one. I have yet to be a huge supporter of McD's, still hoping he proves me wrong. But, we are where we are, it may be very ugly from here on out, may not.

Dismantling the team? Yes, that is probably a fair statement, but not necessarily bad. There is virtually nothing in common between McD's and Shanahan's coaching philosophies, and while no one in the Bronco's organization has used the term "rebuilding", I think it is pretty clear that is what we are doing. McD was given the keys to the family car to do as he wishes, and it is clear he is working on dismantling the Shanahan Broncos in order to create a hopefully better McD Broncos.

Again, I am no big supporter of McD's just yet, but getting rid of Marshall is actually the least concerning thing, in my mind, that he has done. We are stuck with McD for at least a couple more years so I am going to work on keeping a good attitude.

Regardless of whether this works or not, I will still be a Bronco fan forever. Why folks on opposing sides of any situation regarding the Broncos feel compelled to call the other side being "on the badnwagon" or "off the bandwagon", "fairweather", or any other term over a simple DIFFERENCE OF OPINION is beyond me. This is, after all, a DISCUSSION BOARD. I don't recall any rule stating that we must all agree, remain positive regardless of what is happening, or that we must swear allegiance to any one player or coach.

As far as I can tell, we are all pretty passionate Bronco's fans around here, and I disagree with plenty of things people post over one topic or another, but I would NEVER question whether they are true fans of the Broncos. I was a Bronco fan before I was born, was 6 years old when they went to their first Superbowl and STILL remember how exciting that time was. I have maintained my passion for them despite having lived in the God-foresaken state of Washington for over 20 years, and NO ONE can question my love or passion for the Broncos over a difference of opinion. I think the same is true for most of us here.

very nice post.... :salute:

Thnikkaman
04-14-2010, 10:17 AM
This sounds like whining about other posters. If you don't like what they are saying, stay out of the thread. Don't respond and feed the thread. Don't comment that will then bring back another comment. Don't be negative towards a negative post... because it sure as hell isn't making it appear as though you are anything other than another whiner.

This sounds like you are whining about me. And now I sound like I'm whining about you. Ad Nausium.

Really I have no more to offer to this thread because Scott.475 said it beautifully.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm so sick of this effing bullshit of calling peopel upset about McD and what he's done "butthurt" because of the Cutler trade. That was just the start.

We are no more "butthurt" than those of you complaining, about the complainers. You seem to be 'butthurt' that there are some posters disgusted with McD.

This team was better with the "over rated" QB, and was better with the "over rated" WR. But because they don't wear the orange-n-blue.. they suck and are 'over rated' and anyone that liked them are 'butthurt.'

From the perspective of a fence-sitter...I think the Cutler thing made the so-called "haters" put McD under a microscope and many tend to put the blame for EVERYTHING on him since that as a result.

We were average with the "overrated" QB and average without him. If we are still average without the "overrated" WR...then I dont think it's realistic to say we were better WITH them...especially if they dont significantly help their new teams. Just my perspective.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 10:22 AM
From the perspective of a fence-sitter...I think the Cutler thing made the so-called "haters" put McD under a microscope and many tend to put the blame for EVERYTHING on him since that as a result.

We were average with the "overrated" QB and average without him. If we are still average without the "overrated" WR...then I dont think it's realistic to say we were better WITH them...especially if they dont significantly help their new teams. Just my perspective.

Of course this is where the 'hate' for McD came from! I don't read half the shit these blowhards write around here because of that because they judge McD off this...first and foremost!!

turftoad
04-14-2010, 10:24 AM
Of course this is where the 'hate' for McD came from! I don't read half the shit these blowhards write around here because of that because they judge McD off this...first and foremost!!

Do you really think thats the only reason? I think not.

T.K.O.
04-14-2010, 10:29 AM
in all likelyhood marshall would have been gone next year (as the new cba would probably restore ufa status to those who got held up this year).
we would have recieved nothing more than a fond farewell from brandon.
so the F.O. made the logical move at this point.
i hate to see a player with marshall's talent go BUT... we are building a NEW team and there will be growing pains.
gaining power in the draft is a good thing and with a whole new regime it allows the coaches to get the type of players they feel they need to succeed.
whether the plan works or not is yet to be seen.but really most people thought we would be a 3-4 win team last year and we beat the odds.
so let the 2-5 win prognosticators go wild... what matters is W's and like i said last year."we have been an average team for over a decade so i'm all for trying something new":salute:

claymore
04-14-2010, 10:29 AM
From the perspective of a fence-sitter...I think the Cutler thing made the so-called "haters" put McD under a microscope and many tend to put the blame for EVERYTHING on him since that as a result.

We were average with the "overrated" QB and average without him. If we are still average without the "overrated" WR...then I dont think it's realistic to say we were better WITH them...especially if they dont significantly help their new teams. Just my perspective.

McD put himself under the microscope. Winning will make the "haters" forget all of the weird shit he has done. And he hasnt won yet so us haters are still mad.

I am more pissed about the Smith trade than anything. The Cutler trade ripped my heart out. But I am over it. The Smith trade was completley retarded.

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:29 AM
From the perspective of a fence-sitter...I think the Cutler thing made the so-called "haters" put McD under a microscope and many tend to put the blame for EVERYTHING on him since that as a result.

We were average with the "overrated" QB and average without him. If we are still average without the "overrated" WR...then I dont think it's realistic to say we were better WITH them...especially if they dont significantly help their new teams. Just my perspective.


I didn't dislike the trade of Cutler because of the IMMEDIATE season and or repercussions that happen in ONE year. Its the future, and trying to replace that talent in the long run. I know many of you want to say that we are 'better' off without Cutler...but we aren't. You may believe that we aren't 'worse' when he wasn't here, but thats a very short-sighted perspective...imo.

When Cutler is on, he's as good as they come. When Orton is on, he's still average.

So saying that ONE season proves that we are better or worse without an individual player, isn't really looking at the BROAD picture. Just like losing everyone from one of the most YOUNG talented offenses is going to do. Its not just Cutler, and Marshall, and Hillis, and Scheffler (he'll be gone too, I believe).... its all of it together. You can only bleed out so much top talent. Even the great Patriots (!!!!) have bled off too much top talent. What talent have they kept that keeps them contenders no-matter-what.... the QB.

But yeah.... I would say that trading away Cutler put McD under the microscope.. .. as it should. It did for the entire "football nation"... not just Denver fans.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 10:30 AM
McD put himself under the microscope. Winning will make the "haters" forget all of the weird shit he has done. And he hasnt won yet so us haters are still mad.

I am more pissed about the Smith trade than anything. The Cutler trade ripped my heart out. But I am over it. The Smith trade was completley retarded.

What about Quinn Clay? That was an awesome pick too.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 10:31 AM
Do you really think thats the only reason? I think not.

Actually, I believe it is! People I talk to around here in Minot and I read in other MB, the concensus has to do with McD getting rid of him! I don't just get opinions from BF. Again I don't see why a wait and see approach is wearing orange colored glasses. We have extremes on both sides but let's have this conversation at the end of the year. And I do apologize for the name calling but give the coach a chance to succeed or fail and so far the players that he has gotten rid of weren't the ones who were going to bring the BRONCOS over the hump though marshall was a very talented WO but he hated the BRONCOS before McD got here!

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 10:31 AM
Do you really think thats the only reason? I think not.

No...but because of that, it's obvious that a lot of people take every little thing he does and blow it up. He's done a lot of things that Shanny and many other coaches have done, but has faced much harsher criticism simply because he is young and because he granted Cutler his wish.

So, it's fine for people to have their opinion...none of us have a problem with that. But EVERY day, it's "McD will screw it up", "McD needs to be fired" and so on and so on and so on.

Just an FYI - people hate him and people love him. We get it.

broncofaninfla
04-14-2010, 10:37 AM
I would probably like Mcd if he was some other teams coach, unfortunately he is Denvers coach and now he is learning the trade at the expense of my favorite sports franchise. I have disagreed with a majority of his personell changes, scheme changes (expcept the 3/4 d), game planning, offensive play calling and handling of personell issues. Regardless of who is coaching or playing I am and will always be a huge Broncos fan, a vocal Broncos fan but a fan none the less.................

rationalfan
04-14-2010, 10:38 AM
forget the "i'm uncomfortable so i'm going to blame mcd" routine.

a point to remember is that marshal was never going to sign a long term contract in denver because of his history with the darrent williams/gang situation. this had little to do with mcd and a lot to do with marshall. that's my opinion. but i don't think it's far from fact.

with that theory in mind, it's great to get two second round picks for a player who was going to bolt in free agency anyway.

Traveler
04-14-2010, 10:39 AM
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii273/Papi728/Posters/wayne_brady.jpg

Traveler
04-14-2010, 10:40 AM
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii273/Papi728/Posters/teamwork.jpg

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
I'll say this. If McD doesn't build one HELL of a team in the next year or so..... these last two seasons will be looked upon as a MONUMENTAL failure that will hurt this team for a long long time. So, lets all hope McD is very very right.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
forget the "i'm uncomfortable so i'm going to blame mcd" routine.

a point to remember is that marshal was never going to sign a long term contract in denver because of his history with the darrent williams/gang situation. this had little to do with mcd and a lot to do with marshall. that's my opinion. but i don't think it's far from fact.

with that theory in mind, it's great to get two second round picks for a player who was going to bolt in free agency anyway.

NOT ANYMORE...MIAMI JUST GAVE HIM A CONTRACT THAT i'M GLAD dENVER DIDNT

claymore
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
What about Quinn Clay? That was an awesome pick too.

So many weird dealings its hard to remember.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 10:44 AM
I didn't dislike the trade of Cutler because of the IMMEDIATE season and or repercussions that happen in ONE year. Its the future, and trying to replace that talent in the long run. I know many of you want to say that we are 'better' off without Cutler...but we aren't. You may believe that we aren't 'worse' when he wasn't here, but thats a very short-sighted perspective...imo.

When Cutler is on, he's as good as they come. When Orton is on, he's still average.

So saying that ONE season proves that we are better or worse without an individual player, isn't really looking at the BROAD picture. Just like losing everyone from one of the most YOUNG talented offenses is going to do. Its not just Cutler, and Marshall, and Hillis, and Scheffler (he'll be gone too, I believe).... its all of it together. You can only bleed out so much top talent. Even the great Patriots (!!!!) have bled off too much top talent. What talent have they kept that keeps them contenders no-matter-what.... the QB.

But yeah.... I would say that trading away Cutler put McD under the microscope.. .. as it should. It did for the entire "football nation"... not just Denver fans.

I'll agree to this when Cutler becomes a great QB. I'll agree he is better than Orton at his best...but I have to admit...I prefer a QB that is average 75% of the time over a QB that is great 25% of the time.

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:48 AM
I'll agree to this when Cutler becomes a great QB. I'll agree he is better than Orton at his best...but I have to admit...I prefer a QB that is average 75% of the time over a QB that is great 25% of the time.

Cutler is better than Orton , all of the time. But I'm sure I'm not going to change your mind on this... but Cutler is twice the QB Orton is.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 10:49 AM
I'll agree to this when Cutler becomes a great QB. I'll agree he is better than Orton at his best...but I have to admit...I prefer a QB that is average 75% of the time over a QB that is great 25% of the time.

Problem is that we don't have one playmaker that makes a defensive coordinator NOT sleep at night anymore. :tsk:

Orton is not the answer nor is B.Quinn, neither is Moreno at this point, Gaffney? Bah. Royal, not the way McD uses him.
Sure we may draft a WR but expecting them to contribute right away if far fetch'd.
We have no one that scares anyone.

Broncolingus
04-14-2010, 10:50 AM
Pro or anti, BM is gone...not to the surprise of any of us.

Let's see where we are after 16 games this year and THEN make decisions on what were good/bad moves...

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 10:53 AM
Cutler is better than Orton , all of the time. But I'm sure I'm not going to change your mind on this... but Cutler is twice the QB Orton is.

Cutler is potentially MUCH better than Orton. no doubt. But although we've seen flashes of this...we've also seen a ton of failure on his part as well. Again...I'd much prefer an average QB 75% of the time over a Great QB 25% of the time.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 10:55 AM
Cutler is potentially MUCH better than Orton. no doubt. But although we've seen flashes of this...we've also seen a ton of failure on his part as well. Again...I'd much prefer an average QB 75% of the time over a Great QB 25% of the time.

The difference is: trailing by 4pts with two minutes to go in the game, Orton scares no one, Cutler does.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 10:57 AM
The difference is: trailing by 4pts with two minutes to go in the game, Orton scares no one, Cutler does.

Cutler would scare me because the percentage has gone up even more for a pick 6!!:D

Shazam!
04-14-2010, 10:57 AM
Jesus freakin' Christ.

Have that many people forgotten that this team was pathetic in Shanahan's last two Seasons?

Talk about the Offense with Cutler all you want. Lots of turnovers and ineffective in the red zone.

The defense? I wont even mention it.

Shanny became virtually ineffective, the team not showing up, getting destroyed regularly, worst D in the NFL, ravaged by injuries due to weak practices for two straight Seasons? 1 Playoff win and 1 Division title in 10 years post-Elway, and .500 over the last 3 Seasons?? C'mon, a change was necessary. He'll succeed in Washington, but that is because of a change in scenery, AND he finally has a good QB.

McDaniels is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get this team winning again, and SD wont dominate the AFCW forever, theyll be knocked down sooner rather than later.

Jay Cutler. You want out of Denver? Complaining about dimissing a Coach who deserved to get the axe? You wanna cry about how the new Coach doesnt treat you so special? Ignoring calls from the owner? Your Pro Bowl year you didnt even deserve it (Rivers unfortunately), AND youre an INT machine? Good ****ing riddance.

Brandon Marshall. Youre overdramatizing injuries? Smacking your chick around? Futzin' off in practice? Becoming virtually a cancer in the locker room? Bringin' it only when you think you need to? Get the **** away from my team.

The Denver Broncos have been the Denver Mediocres for far too long. Im with McDaniels until I see proof that what he is doing is not working, and that isnt here yet. Sure last year was extremely disappointing, but it was his first Season, and he did no worse than Shanahan wouldve done with his cellar dweller defense.

Orton wasnt the answer, he was the best serviceable QB McD could have gotten for Cutler so I was for that move. We all know Orton isnt the long term answer, it may be Quinn or whomever they Draft this year (we all know their gonna Draft another, possibly Tebow).

People need to get results on the Field before McD is condemned, and after one Season, we dont have that. The minute I see the Broncos fail and McDaniels is proven ineffective, I'll be behind him being shown the door 100%.

McD has forgotten more about Football than we'll ever know. He didn't come in and dismantle a perennial AFC West Champion. He's dismantling and rebuilding a mediocre .500 Football team. Stop acting like the Denver Broncos were some incredible AFC juggernaut force to be reckoned with in the AFC like Pitt, Indy, SD or NE.

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 10:57 AM
Cutler is potentially MUCH better than Orton. no doubt. But although we've seen flashes of this...we've also seen a ton of failure on his part as well. Again...I'd much prefer an average QB 75% of the time over a Great QB 25% of the time.

He's already better.. and you are just makng up % to make your point. I get it. But Cutler is the better QB... which is why teams were bidding more on Cutler and giving away Orton.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 11:03 AM
He's already better.. and you are just makng up % to make your point. I get it. But Cutler is the better QB... which is why teams were bidding more on Cutler and giving away Orton.

I understand your point and my % numbers are just for example purposes. Slice the ability and talent any way you like, but until Cutler PROVES his talent and ability is beneficial to the SUCCESS fo a team, then it really doesnt matter if he has a stronger arm than Elway. Marino was WAYYY more talented than Montana. Where did that get him? There's no denying that Jeff George and Ryan Leaf had tons of talent as well, but I'm not going to call either of them great and I wont proclaim Cutler as a "great" QB until he actually proves it with more than "talent and potential". Just my opinion

jlarsiii
04-14-2010, 11:13 AM
Jesus freakin' Christ.

Have that many people forgotten that this team was pathetic in Shanahan's last two Seasons?

Talk about the Offense with Cutler all you want. Lots of turnovers and ineffective in the red zone.

The defense? I wont even mention it.

Shanny became virtually ineffective, the team not showing up, getting destroyed regularly, worst D in the NFL, ravaged by injuries due to weak practices for two straight Seasons? 1 Playoff win and 1 Division title in 10 years post-Elway, and .500 over the last 3 Seasons?? C'mon, a change was necessary. He'll succeed in Washington, but that is because of a change in scenery, AND he finally has a good QB.

McDaniels is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get this team winning again, and SD wont dominate the AFCW forever, theyll be knocked down sooner rather than later.

Jay Cutler. You want out of Denver? Complaining about dimissing a Coach who deserved to get the axe? You wanna cry about how the new Coach doesnt treat you so special? Ignoring calls from the owner? Your Pro Bowl year you didnt even deserve it (Rivers unfortunately), AND youre an INT machine? Good ****ing riddance.

Brandon Marshall. Youre overdramatizing injuries? Smacking your chick around? Futzin' off in practice? Becoming virtually a cancer in the locker room? Bringin' it only when you think you need to? Get the **** away from my team.

The Denver Broncos have been the Denver Mediocres for far too long. Im with McDaniels until I see proof that what he is doing is not working, and that isnt here yet. Sure last year was extremely disappointing, but it was his first Season, and he did no worse than Shanahan wouldve done with his cellar dweller defense.

Orton wasnt the answer, he was the best serviceable QB McD could have gotten for Cutler so I was for that move. We all know Orton isnt the long term answer, it may be Quinn or whomever they Draft this year (we all know their gonna Draft another, possibly Tebow).

People need to get results on the Field before McD is condemned, and after one Season, we dont have that. The minute I see the Broncos fail and McDaniels is proven ineffective, I'll be behind him being shown the door 100%.

McD has forgotten more about Football than we'll ever know. He didn't come in and dismantle a perennial AFC West Champion. He's dismantling and rebuilding a mediocre .500 Football team. Stop acting like the Denver Broncos were some incredible AFC juggernaut force to be reckoned with in the AFC like Pitt, Indy, SD or NE.

I can agree with what you are saying. However, we are still very much a mediocre team and I see no real evidence that this is going to change anytime soon. I am just looking for some hope that it does. I do believe that McD will be in some trouble if we do worse this coming season then last season.

Shazam!
04-14-2010, 11:17 AM
I can agree with what you are saying. However, we are still very much a mediocre team and I see no real evidence that this is going to change anytime soon. I am just looking for some hope that it does. I do believe that McD will be in some trouble if we do worse this coming season then last season.

Theyre in a rebuilding phase. 10 years of ragged patchwork and a bottom-barrel defense will do that to any team.

jlarsiii
04-14-2010, 11:25 AM
Theyre in a rebuilding phase. 10 years of ragged patchwork and a bottom-barrel defense will do that to any team.

What else is new? I am pretty sure last season definitely counts as rebuilding with some ragged patchwork thrown in with a defense that collapsed during the season. How was that any different then the previous 10 years?

I will give McD the benefit of the doubt and wait another season or 2 before I begin to judge him, but his moves last season were no different then Shanny's previous moves. All lateral moves, bring in free agent players to try and fix the defense, very questionable draft, and so on. . .

Lancane
04-14-2010, 11:29 AM
Theyre in a rebuilding phase. 10 years of ragged patchwork and a bottom-barrel defense will do that to any team.

I call bullshit, if we would have retained the core of the offense and improved it with a player here and there, we wouldn't be rebuilding. We would have not had to rebuild anything beyond our horrid defense. We're in fact rebuilding because of McDaniels' arrogant stand on his ideal football team. If we would have had the offense we had in 08' with the defense we had in 09' we more then likely would have outright won the division and been in the playoffs!

McDaniels stripped the team of it's offensive talent and added who? Moreno, Gaffney, Lloyd, Olsen, Buckhalter and Orton. What's even worse is that Denver was overall better rushing the ball in 08' without a topshelf halfback, if we would have added Moreno with the offense we had in 08' - good g'damn we would have been one of the teams to beat to get to the Super Bowl. Now, we are without Cutler and Marshall, alright...but where does anyone see positives overall from all this?...Don't get me wrong I love the team, I just happen to believe that McDaniels is destroying this team without a clue.

Your argument holds no weight because we are having to rebuild because the team was damaged by internal sources, not age or having a horrid football team in itself...but because of the new regime. People will realize it much more when we fans are having to watch another new regime having to rebuild because of what was broken during McDaniels tenure.

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
From the perspective of a fence-sitter...I think the Cutler thing made the so-called "haters" put McD under a microscope and many tend to put the blame for EVERYTHING on him since that as a result.

We were average with the "overrated" QB and average without him. If we are still average without the "overrated" WR...then I dont think it's realistic to say we were better WITH them...especially if they dont significantly help their new teams. Just my perspective.


lets put this in perspective...i was not a mcd hater..i was pretty excited to see him come on board..him as a person isnt the issue

my problems started with the fact he mocked the shanny RZ offense...he scoffed at he yards no amounting to points...again it was a issue..it got worse under him

he professed he chose denver so he could work with cutler

he then procceded to fail at tradeing him...lied to him..to me..to us all by saying he didnt...he refused to correct the situation by offering assurances to cutler he will not be traded...as a hc you must be the bigger man...he was a petulant child fighting another


he has shown nothing in the way of leadership...you dont create a solid team, by throwing players under the bus. cutler was crucified by his haters for saying the 08 defense couldnt stop anybody in the last game....our HC threw not only the entire oline under the bus, but marshall and scheffler...and was applauded by that same fraction

cutler was and still is crucified for unjustly not shouldering the blame for losses....yet mcd is applauded for never taking blame that maybe his didnk and dunk crap wasnt working as it did for the patriots...instead he always put it down as ...players need to excecute.....never realizing that maybe after running a bubble screen 6 times already without success it might not matter how well the players excecute it..it wont work!!

so now marshall is a cancer...we are following the pats blueprint...the bill method....yet the talk last season in the second half was moss was shutting it down, giving up, not playing hard...did biilichek throw moss under the bus in the media?...no he kept it in house..and publicaly supported moss....was mcd follwing the bill plan when he called out his players...no

sure we were average with cutler in 08...maybe the defense being the rankest most hideous attempt a a nfl defense ever seen may have had something to do with it

and then we were average in 09...but thats with a offense re created under the coaches vision and a defense ranked 7th overall...if anythink we went backward..there is no amount of proof that could be offered to show that we would have won even the siix first games without the defense...

people need to drop the koolaid cup for a second and realize...without that defense and the way they played in weeks 1-6..we would be lucky to be 4-12 on the season

fact is you put the 08 offense together with the 09 defense and we go along way in the playoffs

but in the end..it doesnt make us haters...or none fans who cant get over shit...it makes us fans who realize we had a great core on offense...fix the defnse..and we are in the post season.....but what we got was the dismantling of the core

we got no qb...all we have is average ...now the biggest offensive weapon is gone for what?...so we take either dez with like issues at 11....or a lessor qulity wr later and hope gaffney can keep marshalls production?

either way all we got is a big hole that will be filled by a rookie or a career 2nd-3rd string wr in gaffeny

i really fail to see how mcd has improved the team

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
The difference is: trailing by 4pts with two minutes to go in the game, Orton scares no one, Cutler does.

Based on history, all Cutler does is make DB's lick their chops in that scenario.

jlarsiii
04-14-2010, 11:39 AM
Based on history, all Cutler does is make DB's lick their chops in that scenario.

As opposed to the other team's HC licking his chops when it is neckbeard at the helm? We are no better off at this point in time. . .

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 11:40 AM
lets put this in perspective...i was not a mcd hater..i was pretty excited to see him come on board..him as a person isnt the issue

my problems started with the fact he mocked the shanny RZ offense...he scoffed at he yards no amounting to points...again it was a issue..it got worse under him

he professed he chose denver so he could work with cutler

he then procceded to fail at tradeing him...lied to him..to me..to us all by saying he didnt...he refused to correct the situation by offering assurances to cutler he will not be traded...as a hc you must be the bigger man...he was a petulant child fighting another


he has shown nothing in the way of leadership...you dont create a solid team, by throwing players under the bus. cutler was crucified by his haters for saying the 08 defense couldnt stop anybody in the last game....our HC threw not only the entire oline under the bus, but marshall and scheffler...and was applauded by that same fraction

cutler was and still is crucified for unjustly not shouldering the blame for losses....yet mcd is applauded for never taking blame that maybe his didnk and dunk crap wasnt working as it did for the patriots...instead he always put it down as ...players need to excecute.....never realizing that maybe after running a bubble screen 6 times already without success it might not matter how well the players excecute it..it wont work!!

so now marshall is a cancer...we are following the pats blueprint...the bill method....yet the talk last season in the second half was moss was shutting it down, giving up, not playing hard...did biilichek throw moss under the bus in the media?...no he kept it in house..and publicaly supported moss....was mcd follwing the bill plan when he called out his players...no

sure we were average with cutler in 08...maybe the defense being the rankest most hideous attempt a a nfl defense ever seen may have had something to do with it

and then we were average in 09...but thats with a offense re created under the coaches vision and a defense ranked 7th overall...if anythink we went backward..there is no amount of proof that could be offered to show that we would have won even the siix first games without the defense...

people need to drop the koolaid cup for a second and realize...without that defense and the way they played in weeks 1-6..we would be lucky to be 4-12 on the season

fact is you put the 08 offense together with the 09 defense and we go along way in the playoffs

but in the end..it doesnt make us haters...or none fans who cant get over shit...it makes us fans who realize we had a great core on offense...fix the defnse..and we are in the post season.....but what we got was the dismantling of the core

we got no qb...all we have is average ...now the biggest offensive weapon is gone for what?...so we take either dez with like issues at 11....or a lessor qulity wr later and hope gaffney can keep marshalls production?

either way all we got is a big hole that will be filled by a rookie or a career 2nd-3rd string wr in gaffeny

i really fail to see how mcd has improved the team

All valid...if it pans out for the worse. Bottom line is McD also has yet to prove to make the team worse. To a certain extent, I can see taking a step backwards in order to take 2 steps forward if that's the plan...but I'm not going to pretend I know the ultimate goal after just one year.

On paper, it looks like losing Cutler and Marshall indicate the end of the world to some people, but what it does on the field is make other players step up. Maybe that happens...maybe it doesnt. Cant we just do something completely crazy and wait and see?

Thnikkaman
04-14-2010, 11:40 AM
The difference is: trailing by 4pts with two minutes to go in the game, Orton scares no one, Cutler does.

Yeah, he scares his own O Coordinator.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 11:40 AM
As opposed to the other team's HC licking his chops when it is neckbeard at the helm? We are no better off at this point in time. . .

It's also yet to be proven that we are worse off.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 11:41 AM
As opposed to the other team's HC licking his chops when it is neckbeard at the helm? We are no better off at this point in time. . .

I don't think that defensive backs lick their chops when they see Orton, they just laugh their asses off!

Lancane
04-14-2010, 11:43 AM
It's also yet to be proven that we are worse off.

We went from one of the best offenses in 08' to complete mediocrity, the area the offense was worse the most, is scoring and passing offense. That sort of proves it Chaz, even the run game was worse, but only by a hair!

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 11:48 AM
We went from one of the best offenses in 08' to complete mediocrity, the area the offense was worse the most, is scoring and passing offense. That sort of proves it Chaz, even the run game was worse, but only by a hair!

We could gain 100 yards of offense per game...if we still have the same record (you know...that thing that counts when the playoffs start) then how the hell are we a worse TEAM?

slim
04-14-2010, 11:53 AM
We went from one of the best offenses in 08' to complete mediocrity, the area the offense was worse the most, is scoring and passing offense. That sort of proves it Chaz, even the run game was worse, but only by a hair!

We scored 23.1 points per game in '08 and 20.4 per game in '09.

So the offense was slightly worse in '09. Hardly an epic disaster.

Oh, and we finished with the same record (and had a much tougher schedule).

Lancane
04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
We could gain 100 yards of offense per game...if we still have the same record (you know...that thing that counts when the playoffs start) then how the hell are we a worse TEAM?

Because you need talent to win...

If it took no talent to win, then the league would be more competitive then it is right now...don't you agree.

You need talent to win, it's easy to lose without any at all. Something Coach Saban learned at Michigan State -- it takes more then two blue chip prospects to make a team good...:lol:

topscribe
04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
It will after this year, I would not be surprised if we ended up in the cellar of the AFC West, now that is scary!

As Colonel Potter used to say, Bull Hockey!

2010 Broncos are Wild Card
2011 Broncos win Division
2012 Broncos win Super Bowl

Now, don't bother me: I'm dreaming . . . :sleeping:

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CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 11:56 AM
We scored 23.1 points per game in '08 and 20.4 per game in '09.

So the offense was slightly worse in '09. Hardly an epic disaster.

Oh, and we finished with the same record (and had a much tougher schedule).

i'll take a lesser offense for a better TEAM

Lancane
04-14-2010, 11:57 AM
We scored 23.1 points per game in '08 and 20.4 per game in '09.

So the offense was slightly worse in '09. Hardly an epic disaster.

Oh, and we finished with the same record (and had a much tougher schedule).

That is quite important, especially when you consider that our scoring offense was the only issue offensively in 08'. Now we have rid ourselves of our best offensive weapon, do you really think we are getting better?

TXBRONC
04-14-2010, 11:59 AM
i'll take a lesser offense for a better TEAM

Yeah and last year we had lesser offense but we didn't have a better team.

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 12:00 PM
All valid...if it pans out for the worse. Bottom line is McD also has yet to prove to make the team worse. To a certain extent, I can see taking a step backwards in order to take 2 steps forward if that's the plan...but I'm not going to pretend I know the ultimate goal after just one year.

On paper, it looks like losing Cutler and Marshall indicate the end of the world to some people, but what it does on the field is make other players step up. Maybe that happens...maybe it doesnt. Cant we just do something completely crazy and wait and see?


sure but the way i see it...in no way shape or form..be it last year, this year or three years from now...gaffney and orton will not, are not and will never be in the same level of talent as cutler and marshall..period

you dont make a team better in the long run by devoiding it of the great talent and replaceing it with average..no sir

so sure i could get back on board if i seen the rationality of the plan...i dont..what i see is the plan is...if i dont like you..your gone, to hell with the team..i dont care if your the best offensive players we got and have no plan to replace you with equal talent..your history

what i see is..the coach will lie to the players...the media and to us..he will trow players under the bus...he will devoid the team of the greatest talents we have to serve his personal dysfunction in people skills...thats not a plan i care to see if it bears fruit later..i wanna see the budding fruit now..and all i see is crap

T.K.O.
04-14-2010, 12:00 PM
you need talent and cohesion to win.......one or 2 players rarely make the difference.
i like our chances ,most of the players i have heard talking say that the new staff has the team focused and playing harder than in previous years.
i'll go with that plan:beer:
besides i dont really care who gets us the division back.....as long as we get it back !:salute:

slim
04-14-2010, 12:00 PM
That is quite important, especially when you consider that our scoring offense was the only issue offensively in 08'. Now we have rid ourselves of our best offensive weapon, do you really think we are getting better?

Wait, didn't you just say it takes more than two top notch players to make a TEAM?

Kinda makes all the uproar over trading Cutler and Marshall fairly ridiculous, doesn't it?

Yes, I think the TEAM has improved since McD took over.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 12:00 PM
Yeah and last year we had lesser offense but we didn't have a better team.

On the other hand, the year before we had a better offense but not a better team . . .

-----

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:06 PM
Wait, didn't you just say it takes more than two top notch players to make a TEAM?

Kinda makes all the uproar over trading Cutler and Marshall fairly ridiculous, doesn't it?

Yes, I think the TEAM has improved since McD took over.

I did indeed, but it takes more then a handful of average players added with talented players to do so.

And I'm sorry that you feel the team is better under McDaniels...

:coffee:

Ziggy
04-14-2010, 12:09 PM
I blame Bowlen. He should have been happy with mediocrity and one playoff win over the last 10 years. This whole 'wanting a winning franchise' thing is complete crap. What makes it worse, is the fact that he brought in a coach with a plan. A plan that has been proven to win super bowls for other coaches. The new coach comes in, gets rid of the cancer at QB, installs new systems on both offense and defense, changes out a large portion of the roster, has a tougher schedule, and still goes 8-8 and challenges for a division title.

Now Bowlen up and refuses to give over 20 million guaranteed to a WR that can't stay out of trouble with the law, refuses to practice when it's too cold, and disrupts practice during training camp. What are you thinking Bowlen?

Yep, this team has been dismantled. Why, oh why!?!?!?!?

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 12:09 PM
sure but the way i see it...in no way shape or form..be it last year, this year or three years from now...gaffney and orton will not, are not and will never be in the same level of talent as cutler and marshall..period

you dont make a team better in the long run by devoiding it of the great talent and replaceing it with average..no sir

so sure i could get back on board if i seen the rationality of the plan...i dont..what i see is the plan is...if i dont like you..your gone, to hell with the team..i dont care if your the best offensive players we got and have no plan to replace you with equal talent..your history

what i see is..the coach will lie to the players...the media and to us..he will trow players under the bus...he will devoid the team of the greatest talents we have to serve his personal dysfunction in people skills...thats not a plan i care to see if it bears fruit later..i wanna see the budding fruit now..and all i see is crap

Completely rational and valid post. Thank you for that. All I can say is we have to wait and see. If we have a good draft and improvement takes place, then maybe the plan is working. If not, then we have to look at it more closely. Just a personal preference, but I guess I'm just not the type to judge a career on one or two seasons.

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 12:10 PM
We scored 23.1 points per game in '08 and 20.4 per game in '09.

So the offense was slightly worse in '09. Hardly an epic disaster.

Oh, and we finished with the same record (and had a much tougher schedule).


we also had a defense that took the ball away 30 times...17 more times than they did in 08..they had more ints in 09 than they did total turnovers in 08
we also had a first rd running back...in 08 we had what ...a old pittman, a slew of undrafted rbs, a cell phone salesman and a 7th rnd FB with 6 starting backs on IR

dont pat us on the back for staying level at 8-8...without the defense that played lights out in the first 6 games...if our offense had to shoulder the games like they did in 08..we would be lucky to have been 4-12

slim
04-14-2010, 12:11 PM
I did indeed, but it takes more then a handful of average players added with talented players to do so.

And I'm sorry that you feel the team is better under McDaniels...

:coffee:

I am sorry that you feel 8-8 under shanny is better than 8-8 under McD.

I am no math major, but it kinda seems like a push...to me.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:14 PM
I blame Bowlen. He should have been happy with mediocrity and one playoff win over the last 10 years. This whole 'wanting a winning franchise' thing is complete crap. What makes it worse, is the fact that he brought in a coach with a plan. A plan that has been proven to win super bowls for other coaches. The new coach comes in, gets rid of the cancer at QB, installs new systems on both offense and defense, changes out a large portion of the roster, has a tougher schedule, and still goes 8-8 and challenges for a division title.

Now Bowlen up and refuses to give over 20 million guaranteed to a WR that can't stay out of trouble with the law, refuses to practice when it's too cold, and disrupts practice during training camp. What are you thinking Bowlen?

Yep, this team has been dismantled. Why, oh why!?!?!?!?

Ummm, proven under Belichick...who else has done so?

New Orleans, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and New York didn't, just because one coach does it, does not make it proven, sometimes things work for one and not others.

slim
04-14-2010, 12:15 PM
we also had a defense that took the ball away 30 times...17 more times than they did in 08..they had more ints in 09 than they did total turnovers in 08
we also had a first rd running back...in 08 we had what ...a old pittman, a slew of undrafted rbs, a cell phone salesman and a 7th rnd FB with 6 starting backs on IR

dont pat us on the back for staying level at 8-8...without the defense that played lights out in the first 6 games...if our offense had to shoulder the games like they did in 08..we would be lucky to have been 4-12

I am not patting anyone on the back.

Merely pointing out that the team was no worse under McD than it was under Shanny.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:16 PM
I am sorry that you feel 8-8 under shanny is better than 8-8 under McD.

I am no math major, but it kinda seems like a push...to me.

Not if statistically your team is getting worse, are you going to claim we are better if we field an even worse offense and win only one game more then last season, or go 8-8 again? How about 7-9?

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:17 PM
How about 7-9?

Nah, we will leave that to the mighty Bears and their *coughstarqbcough*

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 12:19 PM
you need talent and cohesion to win.......one or 2 players rarely make the difference.
i like our chances ,most of the players i have heard talking say that the new staff has the team focused and playing harder than in previous years.
i'll go with that plan:beer:
besides i dont really care who gets us the division back.....as long as we get it back !:salute:

really...id say moss and welker made a huge differance in NE?
id say warner made a huge differance for AZ
id say the lack of plax made a huge differance for the giants
id say favre made a differance for minnesota

but taking the division back means we have to have better qb play than the bolts get from rivers...we dont...we need a playmaking wr...just traded ours for a 2nd rnd pick...kc and sd have the best wrs now
we ned a playmaking rb...like charles in kc...we lack there also

you dont take back the division by taking one step forward and two steps back...

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Nah, we will leave that to the mighty Bears and their *coughstarqbcough*

I do feel sorry for Cutler, with the lack of picks and the need for a receiver and offensive line...it's looking ugly for him.

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:20 PM
I do feel sorry for Cutler, with the lack of picks and the need for a receiver and offensive line...it's looking ugly for him.


But all he needed was defense according to some here. :lol:

Ziggy
04-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Ummm, proven under Belichick...who else has done so?

New Orleans, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and New York didn't, just because one coach does it, does not make it proven, sometimes things work for one and not others.

You think that Belichick invented the system? Belichick is a Parcells disciple, as are many others. This system was in place long before Billy B. came around.

slim
04-14-2010, 12:21 PM
Not if statistically your team is getting worse, are you going to claim we are better if we field an even worse offense and win only one game more then last season, or go 8-8 again? How about 7-9?

The only stat I care about is the W.

Yes, if we win more than 8 games next year then I would say the team improved. If we lose more than 8, I will say the opposite.

No fancy stats or extrapolation needed.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:22 PM
But all he needed was defense according to some here. :lol:

That would have been all if he was here, but there it's different. I'm so glad we didn't hire anyone from their front office...Oh God, life would suck even worse...they are up their with Cleveland with getting talent.

TXBRONC
04-14-2010, 12:22 PM
I blame Bowlen. He should have been happy with mediocrity and one playoff win over the last 10 years. This whole 'wanting a winning franchise' thing is complete crap. What makes it worse, is the fact that he brought in a coach with a plan. A plan that has been proven to win super bowls for other coaches. The new coach comes in, gets rid of the cancer at QB, installs new systems on both offense and defense, changes out a large portion of the roster, has a tougher schedule, and still goes 8-8 and challenges for a division title.

Now Bowlen up and refuses to give over 20 million guaranteed to a WR that can't stay out of trouble with the law, refuses to practice when it's too cold, and disrupts practice during training camp. What are you thinking Bowlen?

Yep, this team has been dismantled. Why, oh why!?!?!?!?

McDaniels is not doing things the exact same way Bellicheck did them so right now we don't know if his plan will work or not.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 12:23 PM
IT'S ON NOW, BITCHES!!!!

Saddle up that horse, McDaniels! It's finally the way you wanted it... the team is all yours and devoid of offensive talent! You are the SOLE face of the franchise! Congratulations.

Nobody is more hurt by this than you (well, and maybe Orton).

Hope all goes well! I'll be watching! :pop2:

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:23 PM
McDaniels is not doing things the exact same way Bellicheck did them so right now we don't know if his plan will work or not.

Soooo, you mean its a wait and see approach and people shouldnt be jumping off cliffs because he's doing it his way right? :salute:

Buff
04-14-2010, 12:26 PM
bm faked injury to hurt the team.

This is his legacy in denver.

That isnt josh mcds fault.


Goodbye brandon, and dont let the door hit you on the way out.


Take your baggage as well, you'll need it in miami.

qft.

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 12:26 PM
But all he needed was defense according to some here. :lol:

thats because here he had a couple good wrs..one of them one of the best in the game...he had a good recieving te...a solid game despite the revolving door to starting backs, and one of the best olins in the game

all he needed was a defense that didnt give up 28 points per game

in chicago he dont have a good wr in the bunch..has a terrible oline, a horrible run game and a defense that has fallen off considerbly since thier superbowl bid

guess you never followed the broncos before huh?

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:28 PM
thats because here he had a couple good wrs..one of them one of the best in the game...he had a good recieving te...a solid game despite the revolving door to starting backs, and one of the best olins in the game

all he needed was a defense that didnt give up 28 points per game

in chicago he dont have a good wr in the bunch..has a terrible oline, a horrible run game and a defense that has fallen off considerbly since thier superbowl bid

guess you never followed the broncos before huh?


Yet, despite the additions that Chi-town made to their WR and Oline core the mighty Kyle Orton did more with less last year. Yea, makes perfect sense dude. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:28 PM
You think that Belichick invented the system? Belichick is a Parcells disciple, as are many others. This system was in place long before Billy B. came around.

Hahaha...

Belichick is a defensive minded coach, a former defensive coordinator. Weis is the one that installed the spread offensive scheme in New England. Parcells has nothing to do with the F'n spread offense, know the facts of football before spouting crap! The spread offense has continually failed at the pro level, that is a flat out well known fact and if you took the time to look it up you would know as much. Parcells is a defensive minded coach himself, a former defensive coordinator.

The only teams to find success or some success at the pro level with a spread offense is Arizona and New England. No team under Parcells used the spread offensive system.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 12:28 PM
sure but the way i see it...in no way shape or form..be it last year, this year or three years from now...gaffney and orton will not, are not and will never be in the same level of talent as cutler and marshall..period

you dont make a team better in the long run by devoiding it of the great talent and replaceing it with average..no sir

so sure i could get back on board if i seen the rationality of the plan...i dont..what i see is the plan is...if i dont like you..your gone, to hell with the team..i dont care if your the best offensive players we got and have no plan to replace you with equal talent..your history

what i see is..the coach will lie to the players...the media and to us..he will trow players under the bus...he will devoid the team of the greatest talents we have to serve his personal dysfunction in people skills...thats not a plan i care to see if it bears fruit later..i wanna see the budding fruit now..and all i see is crap

You kind of make sense, Rap. However, as you know, talent level in the NFL
does not always equal performance, either. Brady does not have the raw talent
that Cutler does, but who has the winning record? Rod Smith is nowhere near
as talented as BMarsh, but who has the rings?

I could go on and on (and have been known to :laugh:). But, while I agree that
Orton and Gaffney do not have the raw talent of Cutler and Marshall,
respectively, that does not mean this team will do as well or better without
the latter two than it did with them. Besides, we have a draft to go, and the
team is likely not through with FAs and trades.

Let's see where it goes from here . . .

-----

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 12:34 PM
Yet, despite the additions that Chi-town made to their WR and Oline core the mighty Kyle Orton did more with less last year. Yea, makes perfect sense dude. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

:lol: Kyle had a TON more offensive talent than they had in CHicago.. please North.. you know it.

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:36 PM
:lol: Kyle had a TON more offensive talent than they had in CHicago.. please North.. you know it.

Stay with me genius, im talking last in Chicago when Orton led them to a 9-7 record with less talent than Jay had with them this year. Do i need to explain further? :lol:

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 12:36 PM
:lol: Kyle had a TON more offensive talent than they had in CHicago.. please North.. you know it.

I think he meant the talent Orton had to work with in Chicago

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 12:37 PM
You kind of make sense, Rap. However, as you know, talent level in the NFL
does not always equal performance, either. Brady does not have the raw talent
that Cutler does, but who has the winning record? Rod Smith is nowhere near
as talented as BMarsh, but who has the rings?

I could go on and on (and have been known to :laugh:). But, while I agree that
Orton and Gaffney do not have the raw talent of Cutler and Marshall,
respectively, that does not mean this team will do as well or better without
the latter two than it did with them. Besides, we have a draft to go, and the
team is likely not through with FAs and trades.

Let's see where it goes from here . . .

-----

thats all fine top...but you been around the block longer then automobiles

and so you also know in order to win you must win certain position battles from the other teams...when your facing rivers you have to win that battle...without marshall can orton? can he better or match the play of rivers?
gaffney has never proven he is on the same level as marshall...one game doesnt make him a top wr...can he outplay VJ...or bowe?
knowshon...can he out play the kc backs...or oaklands if they get a competent qb
will our defense stay at the top; without nolan?

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:37 PM
I think he meant the talent Orton had to work with in Chicago

THANK YOU. Wow, did not think it was that difficult but damn. :tsk:

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:39 PM
THANK YOU. Wow, did not think it was that difficult but damn. :tsk:

Orton still sucks, we should trade him to Oakland and use the pick for Tebow!

:lol:

Ziggy
04-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Hahaha...

Belichick is a defensive minded coach, a former defensive coordinator. Weis is the one that installed the spread offensive scheme in New England. Parcells has nothing to do with the F'n spread offense, know the facts of football before spouting crap! The spread offense has continually failed at the pro level, that is a flat out well known fact and if you took the time to look it up you would know as much. Parcells is a defensive minded coach himself, a former defensive coordinator.

The only teams to find success or some success at the pro level with a spread offense is Arizona and New England. No team under Parcells used the spread offensive system.

Lan, I'm really getting tired of having to educate you on NFL history. The system of building a team is the type of players you bring into your franchise. The system of building a team of tough, intelligent, team players is the Parcells model, which Billy B. instituted in New England. It doesn't matter whether the head coach is offensive of defensive minded. It has nothing to do with the spread offense, or the west coast offense. I posted that McD is installing a proven system. That system is one of building a winning franchise, not just an offense.

You try so hard to jump on people's posts to try to prove someone wrong, you don't take the time see the whole picture. Relax, take a deep breath, and enjoy life.

silkamilkamonico
04-14-2010, 12:40 PM
...in less than a year.

By Josh McDaniels

Discuss:

"Dismantling a less than .500 NFL franchises...for geniuses......"

Don't twist the facts now.

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:41 PM
Orton still sucks, we should trade him to Oakland and use the pick for Tebow!

:lol:


I dont care if we trade Orton. But why Oakland?

TXBRONC
04-14-2010, 12:42 PM
Soooo, you mean its a wait and see approach and people shouldnt be jumping off cliffs because he's doing it his way right? :salute:

Yes. But I also think there are more questions than there was before he came.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:44 PM
I dont care if we trade Orton. But why Oakland?

Cause there is no way in hell he could beat us!...lol. ;)

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 12:44 PM
I dont care if we trade Orton. But why Oakland?

Better yet... why Tebow?

(Oakland becuse they need a QB, and we know we'll never be worried about playing against Orton)

Traveler
04-14-2010, 12:44 PM
Dismantle/re-build. Kinda the same thing from a football perspective

Northman
04-14-2010, 12:45 PM
Cause there is no way in hell he could beat us!...lol. ;)


Yea, im sure Brady and Homo thought that too. :lol:

topscribe
04-14-2010, 12:46 PM
:lol: Kyle had a TON more offensive talent than they had in CHicago.. please North.. you know it.

And Cutler had that same talent the year before . . . and a better offensive line.

All in all, it proves nothing, does it?

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 12:47 PM
And Cutler had that same talent the year before . . . and a better offensive line.

All in all, it proves nothing, does it?

-----

So top, what's your prediction for Orton without Marshall around? IIRC, that's approximately 50% of his TD passes and 25-35% of his completions he'll have to find in someone else. Any thoughts?

Ziggy
04-14-2010, 12:48 PM
McDaniels is not doing things the exact same way Bellicheck did them so right now we don't know if his plan will work or not.

He doesn't have to Tex. The Pats were put on the right track before Bellicheck got there. Parcells went to New England and began the process first. Some of the house cleaning was already done. Bellicheck did a great job, but he was continuing a process that was already started.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 12:49 PM
So top, what's your predcition for Orton without Marshall around? IIRC, that's approximately 50% of his TD passes and 25-35% of his completions he'll have to find in someone else. Any thoughts?

I'll leave the predictions to you. I don't make them. That should have been
obvious by now. Oh wait . . .

:coffee:

-----

Lancane
04-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Better yet... why Tebow?

(Oakland becuse they need a QB, and we know we'll never be worried about playing against Orton)

Why Tebow, well A) He needs time to develop so we can see what Brandstater and/or Quinn can do and B) He's an athletic freak with a cannon for an arm.

Only downfall, he will become the posterchild for local churches...lol.

Ziggy
04-14-2010, 12:57 PM
Why Tebow, well A) He needs time to develop so we can see what Brandstater and/or Quinn can do and B) He's an athletic freak with a cannon for an arm.

Only downfall, he will become the posterchild for local churches...lol.

Other than the last line, this is a good post Lan. I think in 2 years, Tebow can be a good-great NFL QB. In the meantime, we can use him in the wild horses formation, which the Broncos could run about 10-15 plays a game. Think about it. He always takes the ball from the shotgun, and the field is spread for him. I think he would thrive in that role.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 01:04 PM
Lan, I'm really getting tired of having to educate you on NFL history. The system of building a team is the type of players you bring into your franchise. The system of building a team of tough, intelligent, team players is the Parcells model, which Billy B. instituted in New England. It doesn't matter whether the head coach is offensive of defensive minded. It has nothing to do with the spread offense, or the west coast offense. I posted that McD is installing a proven system. That system is one of building a winning franchise, not just an offense.

You try so hard to jump on people's posts to try to prove someone wrong, you don't take the time see the whole picture. Relax, take a deep breath, and enjoy life.

That is called the 'Team Philosophy' you said the system as in scheme... ;)

I think now that you wrote that, that you meant he is using his own system to impliment a 'Team Philosophy' for the organization itself. That makes sense...

Sorry, my mistake.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 01:19 PM
And Cutler had that same talent the year before . . . and a better offensive line.

All in all, it proves nothing, does it?

-----

Cutler made the Pro Bowl.

silkamilkamonico
04-14-2010, 01:22 PM
Cutler made the Pro Bowl.

I bet he'd trade that Pro Bowl in for a winning season.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 01:39 PM
Actually, I believe it is! People I talk to around here in Minot and I read in other MB, the concensus has to do with McD getting rid of him! I don't just get opinions from BF. Again I don't see why a wait and see approach is wearing orange colored glasses. We have extremes on both sides but let's have this conversation at the end of the year. And I do apologize for the name calling but give the coach a chance to succeed or fail and so far the players that he has gotten rid of weren't the ones who were going to bring the BRONCOS over the hump though marshall was a very talented WO but he hated the BRONCOS before McD got here!

He got a chance. Folks are critiquing his 8-8 record, his personnel decisions, and his drafting. Oh wait, I guess his first year was a "gimmie" and people can't critique that?

Why do so many feel the need to defend his every move? For every "hater" who bashes McDaniels there is a poster who slobs his knob and believes everything he does is "the right move". Obviously, no playoffs and no Superbowl contention means he's not making all the "right moves". Since when was it "okay" to be Mediocre as a Denver F'n Bronco? That's what I want to know? Hoorah! We're Stuck At "Average"!?!?

Believe me, this is NOTHING THAT I OR ANY OTHER POSTER ON THIS BOARD WOULDN'T HAVE SAID ABOUT SHANAHAN, EITHER.

dogfish
04-14-2010, 02:10 PM
Please form your opinion in a way that doesn't make it sound like you are whining.

"whining"-- the most overused word on the internets!

topscribe
04-14-2010, 02:16 PM
Cutler made the Pro Bowl.

Well, good for him (even though majority outside Denver has seemed to think it
should have been Rivers). My point was not intended as a Cutler vs. Orton issue.
The issue here, as I understand it, is how well the team did with the talent they
had. So, in 2008, they were 8-8. In 2009, they were 8-8. So, as the point has
been made, the game is more than just talent.

-----

topscribe
04-14-2010, 02:18 PM
"whining"-- the most overused word on the internets!

It's a very handy word . . . helps to avoid having to learn a bunch of other words . . . :D

-----

dogfish
04-14-2010, 02:25 PM
It's a very handy word . . . helps to avoid having to learn a bunch of other words . . . :D

-----

pretty much. . . it's intellectual laziness, IMO. . .

don't like someone's post or opinion? so much easier to just slap it with the near-ubiqitous and vaguely insulting label of "whining" than to refute it. . . you can even throw up a picture of a crying baby for bonus points. . .

nothing like a little good old-fashioned ridicule to squash dissenting opinions!

Nomad
04-14-2010, 02:30 PM
He got a chance. Folks are critiquing his 8-8 record, his personnel decisions, and his drafting. Oh wait, I guess his first year was a "gimmie" and people can't critique that?

Why do so many feel the need to defend his every move? For every "hater" who bashes McDaniels there is a poster who slobs his knob and believes everything he does is "the right move". Obviously, no playoffs and no Superbowl contention means he's not making all the "right moves". Since when was it "okay" to be Mediocre as a Denver F'n Bronco? That's what I want to know? Hoorah! We're Stuck At "Average"!?!?

Believe me, this is NOTHING THAT I OR ANY OTHER POSTER ON THIS BOARD WOULDN'T HAVE SAID ABOUT SHANAHAN, EITHER.

You ok, we don't have to put you on suicide watch! I guess when taking a wait and see approach one doesn't overdramatize the situation as you and others have! We can have this discussion at the end of the year and thump your chest in as 'I told you so' or look like a pathetic whiner who was overdramatic before the fact!! Suit yourself and by all means critique, expect high standards on a new HC implimenting his system, and I don't slob knobs but if that's your forte then here's a lollipop to practice on!!:lollypop:

slim
04-14-2010, 02:30 PM
pretty much. . . it's intellectual laziness, IMO. . .

don't like someone's post or opinion? so much easier to just slap it with the near-ubiqitous and vaguely insulting label of "whining" than to refute it. . . you can even throw up a picture of a crying baby for bonus points. . .

nothing like a little good old-fashioned ridicule to squash dissenting opinions!

Stop whining.

dogfish
04-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Stop whining.

oh, you want some, fatass?


bring it on!

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 02:32 PM
pretty much. . . it's intellectual laziness, IMO. . .

don't like someone's post or opinion? so much easier to just slap it with the near-ubiqitous and vaguely insulting label of "whining" than to refute it. . . you can even throw up a picture of a crying baby for bonus points. . .

nothing like a little good old-fashioned ridicule to squash dissenting opinions!

Let's make it fair. Those that side with McD can have a the Kool-Aid man as a avatar...those that dislike McD can have a crying child as an avatar and those on the fence can just have a fence as an avatar.

That way we're all labeled and we dont have to make extended posts discussing the labelling and language that EVERYONE here is guilty of.

Work for you?

Northman
04-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Let's make it fair. Those that side with McD can have a the Kool-Aid man as a avatar...those that dislike McD can have a crying child as an avatar and those on the fence can just have a fence as an avatar.

That way we're all labeled and we dont have to make extended posts discussing the labelling and language that EVERYONE here is guilty of.

Work for you?


Yea, but what about the Dortoh clan?

Lonestar
04-14-2010, 02:34 PM
Well I read about the first page and decided to skip the rest.

I think getting rid of those players that were not ready to be part of the BIGGER picture being part of the TEAM is fine by me.

When some one is more worried about there pay check than performing, that is a total ME guy.

I know that many feel that we can't win with out mega players, but I do not think that is true.

I would rather have a balanced attack running and Passing and when passing spread it around to more than one player. Sooner or later that one player is going to not be there. Injuries, fubars, or being stupid amongst civilians. Spending time in the slammer or being a Frequent Visitor of the NFL offices.

BM had lots of the above. Now he is someone else's issue and we can move on to becoming a team let me repeat that TEAM.

It was apparent when Josh came to town NO ONE player was going to get in the way of building a TEAM.

I'm sorry he is not here any longer but it was HIS choice to leave, hopefully we can use those PICKs for a greater good.

dogfish
04-14-2010, 02:35 PM
Let's make it fair. Those that side with McD can have a the Kool-Aid man as a avatar...those that dislike McD can have a crying child as an avatar and those on the fence can just have a fence as an avatar.

That way we're all labeled and we dont have to make extended posts discussing the labelling and language that EVERYONE here is guilty of.

Work for you?

i want a mushroom cloud as my avatar. . .


and i also want T to add "whining" to the profanity filter. . .

topscribe
04-14-2010, 02:36 PM
pretty much. . . it's intellectual laziness, IMO. . .

don't like someone's post or opinion? so much easier to just slap it with the near-ubiqitous and vaguely insulting label of "whining" than to refute it. . . you can even throw up a picture of a crying baby for bonus points. . .

nothing like a little good old-fashioned ridicule to squash dissenting opinions!

Thank you for your "gay" contribution. :D

-----

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 02:36 PM
Yea, but what about the Dortoh clan?

They all get their precious ostrichs. That way we know not to take anything they say seriously

Northman
04-14-2010, 02:38 PM
They all get their precious ostrichs. That way we know not to take anything they say seriously

Or, it could be clear they all have their heads in the sand. :lol:

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 02:39 PM
Or, it could be clear they all have their heads in the sand. :lol:

po tay to

po tah to

topscribe
04-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Or, it could be clear they all have their heads in the sand. :lol:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Miscellaneous/PDHeadInSand.gif

-----

Overtime
04-14-2010, 02:40 PM
im losing faith in the front office. mighta been coaches idea, but the front office has final say over player personnel decisions, and this should have been overruled, and Marshall shoulda received a fat contract.

we will pay for this, and it won't be pretty.

broncobryce
04-14-2010, 02:43 PM
And last season we were supposed to be 5-11 or worse.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 02:43 PM
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Miscellaneous/PDHeadInSand.gif

-----

Top, is that a picture of you during your college days? ;)

Lonestar
04-14-2010, 02:44 PM
im losing faith in the front office. mighta been coaches idea, but the front office has final say over player personnel decisions, and this should have been overruled, and Marshall shoulda received a fat contract.

we will pay for this, and it won't be pretty.

HE did receive a fat contract just not Pats money being wasted.

Plus he thought Josh was bad, wait till Parcells and the HC jump in his ass.

He wanted to go home to Florida now he is there, no longer a Bronco.

There is a GOD.

CoachChaz
04-14-2010, 02:45 PM
And last season we were supposed to be 5-11 or worse.

Yeah, but we only got lucky because our defense (with a bunch of new McD players and a new scheme) got us there.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 02:45 PM
Look at what this lazy SOB had to write!!

___________________________________________

Attention Dol-Fans: Stop Your Whining! Marshall Is a Dolphin!
by TheNFL Speculator Contributor Written on April 14, 2010
Doug Benc/Getty Images For the entire off-season--no, make that an entire two off-seasons!--Dolphins fans have been whining about "why won't the 'trifecta' get Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin?"

And have been just plain whining, period, trying to make their fan-dom the whiniest in the NFL.

And when Boldin went to the Ravens, I could barely stand to go to Dolphins blogs. The noise on the Sun Sentinel Fins blog and the "Daily Dolphin" at the Palm Beach Post was excruciating!

And it was just as bad at a really great Fins blog, "The Phinsider" at SB Nation.

Well, you can stop whining! PLEASE!

PUH-LEEEEAAAZZZZE!

It has been particular deafening since the Jets pulled another "great coup" in landing Santonio Holmes, seemingly robbing the Steelers by sending them a measly 5th rounder. I swear all that can be sworn to, Dolphins fans were achieving apoplexy!

Some were even calling for the heads of Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland, and Tony Sparano, who make up the afore-mentioned 'Trifecta.'

Never mind this trio helped get Miami from 1-15 in 2007 to 11-5 in 2008. But none of that mattered to many Dol-fans, because the Fins took an expected step backwards to 7-9 in 2009.

This 7-9, by the way, was called by several NFL pre-season prediction experts, including Pete Prisco, predicated on the fact that the Patriots were getting Brady back, that the Dolphins had the league's hardest schedule, and that the Jets now had Rex Ryan and rookie "franchise QB" Mark Sanchez.

Considering the Phins got that 2008 11-5 with the league's easiest schedule and showed they were not quite ready to be prime time players, getting creamed in the Wild Card playoff round by the Ravens, many Dolphin fans couldn't see them going better than 8-8 in 2009...which had they not lost to the sorry Buffalo Bills in the 4th quarter, they would have been.

So, like I said, start loving the 'trifecta' again and stop whining! Marshall is a Dolphin.

Maybe now, those smug Jets fans can lose a night's sleep!

Further, we will see just how great Darelle Revis is in 2010, having to defend not only Moss and Welker twice a year, as well as Lee Evans, but now Brandon Marshall and another great young slot receiver, Davone Bess--and maybe even Teddy Ginn, who seems to have Revis's number

Lancane
04-14-2010, 02:46 PM
HE did receive a fat contract just not Pats money being wasted.

Plus he thought Josh was bad, wait till Parcells and the HC jump in his ass.

He wanted to go home to Florida now he is there, no longer a Bronco.

There is a GOD.

You Called? Thank you for calling 1-800-Iam-Godd... :laugh:

topscribe
04-14-2010, 02:47 PM
Top, is that a picture of you during your college days? ;)

Nope. Butt's too skinny . . .

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Northman
04-14-2010, 02:47 PM
Revis will be fine, he's the absolute best in the league. Now Cromartie on the other hand......

Nomad
04-14-2010, 02:50 PM
Revis will be fine, he's the absolute best in the league. Now Cromartie on the other hand......

True! But I thought we were on the subject of 'whining' and the laziness of using the word!:D

Slick
04-14-2010, 03:01 PM
I question much of what Josh has done so far but I can't blame him. He is doing what he thinks will benefit the team in the long run. I fail to see the plan for the future but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

He'll go down or succeed doing it his way and I can respect that. I would do the same thing. I probably wouldn't have traded Cutler or Marshall, and I admit, I'm still not happy about either trade because I don't feel like we've gotten the value (or will even get the value concerning Marshall) but I also have to remind myself to give it time.

He may get fired in a year or two or we may all be here 5 years from now saying what a smart SOB he is.

Times have changed. Most people live in an instant gratification world and don't have patience to wait things out. I'm not trying to sit on the high horse here, but I'll give him a little more time before I write him off.

Nomad
04-14-2010, 03:05 PM
I question much of what Josh has done so far but I can't blame him. He is doing what he thinks will benefit the team in the long run. I fail to see the plan for the future but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

He'll go down or succeed doing it his way and I can respect that. I would do the same thing. I probably wouldn't have traded Cutler or Marshall, and I admit, I'm still not happy about either trade because I don't feel like we've gotten the value (or will even get the value concerning Marshall) but I also have to remind myself to give it time.

He may get fired in a year or two or we may all be here 5 years from now saying what a smart SOB he is.

Times have changed. Most people live in an instant gratification world and don't have patience to wait things out. I'm not trying to sit on the high horse here, but I'll give him a little more time before I write him off.

This is a fair assessment of the situation! Good take Slick!! I guess I am willing to give him more rope being a new HC and letting him impliment his system!

Thnikkaman
04-14-2010, 03:11 PM
"whining"-- the most overused word on the internets!

No, Nazis is the most overused word on teh intarwebs.

Lonestar
04-14-2010, 03:13 PM
I question much of what Josh has done so far but I can't blame him. He is doing what he thinks will benefit the team in the long run. I fail to see the plan for the future but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

He'll go down or succeed doing it his way and I can respect that. I would do the same thing. I probably wouldn't have traded Cutler or Marshall, and I admit, I'm still not happy about either trade because I don't feel like we've gotten the value (or will even get the value concerning Marshall) but I also have to remind myself to give it time.

He may get fired in a year or two or we may all be here 5 years from now saying what a smart SOB he is.

Times have changed. Most people live in an instant gratification world and don't have patience to wait things out. I'm not trying to sit on the high horse here, but I'll give him a little more time before I write him off.

That is the guy I remember :salute:

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 05:29 PM
Well, good for him (even though majority outside Denver has seemed to think it
should have been Rivers). My point was not intended as a Cutler vs. Orton issue.
The issue here, as I understand it, is how well the team did with the talent they
had. So, in 2008, they were 8-8. In 2009, they were 8-8. So, as the point has
been made, the game is more than just talent.

-----


and the point you all cant seem to grasp is....in 08 we had a potentially great offense...a offenssive core any coach would salivate over
we however had neither the d coordinator nor players on defense...our 8-8 record directly reflects the defenses struggles...not the offenses

in fact to me...it details the overall talent and future greatness of the extremly young offensive core...marshall, royal, clady, harris, scheffler, hillis, cutler, kuper....

that they were able to get to 8-8 with the hideous defense backing them is a monumental achievemnt

had mcd came in and devoted his time to the defense..and not start screwing around with shit that wasnt broken..we wouldnt have endured another 8-8 season

had mcd left the offense alone, reguardless if he drafted moreno...just left that core alone, regaurdless is he changed the zbs...just spent his time on the real issue...which is why we were 8-8 and not 13-3 in 08..the defense

then i could honestly say we were improving with the defense we had last year...but he didnt...sure we ended up 8-8...but a man useing his iq instead of his ass would understand...we were 8-8 in 08 because of the defense..not marshall..not cutler..not hillis..not scheffler, not harris or clady....we were 8-8 because of the defense

we were 8-8 in 08 because the defense prevented us from being 12-4
we were 8-8 in 09 because the defense prevented us from being 4-12

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 05:32 PM
Yeah, but we only got lucky because our defense (with a bunch of new McD players and a new scheme) got us there.

oh yeah..nolans scheme...he's gone now right...by way of another one of mcds inabilities in getting along

Northman
04-14-2010, 05:46 PM
it details the overall talent and future greatness of the extremly young offensive core...marshall, royal, clady, harris, scheffler, hillis, cutler, kuper....

A core that was using a scheme implemented by the previous HC. When trying to use some of the same system (ZBS) in 09' it wasnt nearly as effective. Keep in mind that the scoring both in 08 and 09 were atrocious. Its easy to get enamored by the stats that Denver put up in 08' but 16th in scoring isnt a defensive problem. Throwing picks in the endzone in crunchtime when the season is on the line is not a defensive problem. Chicago has a defense yet Cutler couldnt get them above .500. No receivers? You mean the same ones or less that Orton had in 08' and went 9-7 with? I admit, i wouldnt of handled the situation the same had i been McDaniels but since no one here really knows why he did what he did im going to guess its because he has his own ideas in place to how he wants to succeed with this team. Had Shanny stayed in 09' there is a slight chance that Denver would of improved even more. But considering Shanny's reluctance to address the defense in a serious manner he might as well gone 8-8 again. You can assume all you want too about how we "might" of been had Cutler, Marshall, etc stayed but you dont know that as fact because the system and philosphy were entirely different.

NameUsedBefore
04-14-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm pretty damn sure McDaniels has been driving this team in the wrong direction for awhile now. Consider this: The team he inherited had some aging players as well as some young up and comers. A combination of the two would have put us in a supreme position within a short span of time. Well, we've shipped away our greatest young players and for the older players it is only a matter of time before they either fall off or are shipped to another team.

There are many reasons I'm pissed at McDaniels. Shitty playcalling? Sure. Childish behavior? Yeah. But I always think back to the team he inherited, and I felt that team was very seriously gonna be a tough to beat team with a bright future. Not anymore. Kyle Orton, Jabar Gaffney and a whole bunch of pissing away draft picks is what we've gotten. Oh and a mediocre season we quite obviously fluked our way through.

I could totally be with McDaniels if I believed in the philosophy of taking thirty steps backward before you started going forward, but I don't.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 06:12 PM
and the point you all cant seem to grasp is....in 08 we had a potentially great offense...a offenssive core any coach would salivate over
we however had neither the d coordinator nor players on defense...our 8-8 record directly reflects the defenses struggles...not the offenses

in fact to me...it details the overall talent and future greatness of the extremly young offensive core...marshall, royal, clady, harris, scheffler, hillis, cutler, kuper....

that they were able to get to 8-8 with the hideous defense backing them is a monumental achievemnt

had mcd came in and devoted his time to the defense..and not start screwing around with shit that wasnt broken..we wouldnt have endured another 8-8 season

had mcd left the offense alone, reguardless if he drafted moreno...just left that core alone, regaurdless is he changed the zbs...just spent his time on the real issue...which is why we were 8-8 and not 13-3 in 08..the defense

then i could honestly say we were improving with the defense we had last year...but he didnt...sure we ended up 8-8...but a man useing his iq instead of his ass would understand...we were 8-8 in 08 because of the defense..not marshall..not cutler..not hillis..not scheffler, not harris or clady....we were 8-8 because of the defense

we were 8-8 in 08 because the defense prevented us from being 12-4
we were 8-8 in 09 because the defense prevented us from being 4-12

Umm . . . are you sure you quoted the right post? :confused:

Nonetheless, I don't know how you can say that about the #26 run defense in
the league in 2009 (#32 the last few games).

Ah well, on a board where people argue with facts, how can much of anything
make sense? :coffee:

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arapaho2
04-14-2010, 06:15 PM
A core that was using a scheme implemented by the previous HC. When trying to use some of the same system (ZBS) in 09' it wasnt nearly as effective. Keep in mind that the scoring both in 08 and 09 were atrocious. Its easy to get enamored by the stats that Denver put up in 08' but 16th in scoring isnt a defensive problem. Throwing picks in the endzone in crunchtime when the season is on the line is not a defensive problem. Chicago has a defense yet Cutler couldnt get them above .500. No receivers? You mean the same ones or less that Orton had in 08' and went 9-7 with? I admit, i wouldnt of handled the situation the same had i been McDaniels but since no one here really knows why he did what he did im going to guess its because he has his own ideas in place to how he wants to succeed with this team. Had Shanny stayed in 09' there is a slight chance that Denver would of improved even more. But considering Shanny's reluctance to address the defense in a serious manner he might as well gone 8-8 again. You can assume all you want too about how we "might" of been had Cutler, Marshall, etc stayed but you dont know that as fact because the system and philosphy were entirely different.

scheme..?... cutler and that core could have preformed in the "new scheme very well, better then orton i believe"



the lack of a defense does in fact propogate some offensive weakneses....again people cant say ..all those passing yards was because we played from behind, and had to pass alot...playing from behind because your defense cannot stop the other team and allows six consecutive scores...severely limits what the offense can do

dont you understand the concept...its known across the land as.."one dimensional"..if you have to pass..the other team knows you have to pass...they gonna get a few....check the bills game...i believe denver had only 2 rushing attempts in the entire second half..two!!! is that balanced?....you wanna bet the defense knew he was gonna pass ?

by the way the bears defense was ranled 17th...you know ten spots below the broncos..they were ranked 21st in scoreing def...9 spots below the broncos...sure cutler had a defense...a way worse one then orton had

arapaho2
04-14-2010, 06:21 PM
Umm . . . are you sure you quoted the right post? :confused:

Nonetheless, I don't know how you can say that about the #26 run defense in
the league in 2009 (#32 the last few games).

Ah well, on a board where people argue with facts, how can much of anything
make sense? :coffee:

-----

depends on what your saying

the 09 run de was 26th,,,it was worse in 08

compare the two despite being 26-27th

in 08 the defe gave up 2337 rushing yards,,,5.0 ypa..26 rushing tds
in 09 they gave up 2059 yards,,,4.4 ypa..11 tds

now what was your point?

Northman
04-14-2010, 06:24 PM
scheme..?... cutler and that core could have preformed in the "new scheme very well, better then orton i believe"

That would be one's guess but not fact.



check the bills game....you wanna bet the defense knew he was gonna pass ?

Dude, he threw into triple coverage!!! :lol:



by the way the bears defense was ranled 17th...you know ten spots below the broncos..they were ranked 21st in scoreing def...9 spots below the broncos...sure cutler had a defense...a way worse one then orton had

You cant seem to follow the conversation very well. When Cutler played in 08' the defense was ranked near the bottom like 28th or 29th. He went 8-8 with that club. In Chicago this year he went 7-9 with a better defense than he had in Denver. And my guess is your defense gets put in bad positions when you turn the ball over 27 times not including fumbles. :lol:

topscribe
04-14-2010, 06:26 PM
depends on what your saying

the 09 run de was 26th,,,it was worse in 08

compare the two despite being 26-27th

in 08 the defe gave up 2337 rushing yards,,,5.0 ypa..26 rushing tds
in 09 they gave up 2059 yards,,,4.4 ypa..11 tds

now what was your point?

I'm not sure what my point is because I'm not sure what yours is. That is why
I was wondering whether you even responded to the right post.

But anyway, the defense truly was miserable in 2008, and it fell apart in 2009,
although the pass defense stayed intact.

Now, I'm sure someone is going to take up an argument with me over this. It
seems to happen when I present any facts. :whoknows:

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Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 06:30 PM
Cutler is still the better QB. he's still the superior talent, and a MUCH brighter future than anyone we have on teh roster. He's still the better option by FAR thananything we ahve on the roster. Cutler can play with the best of them.

Two years (starting) together. Thats what we got out of Cutler, Marshall, Scheff, and Hillis. How many years did Manning start with Wayne, Harrison, Edgerin James, and his TE before finally making it to the Super Bowl?? Amazing. A draft taht could have been the foundation for this franchise.... "Build through the draft"... uhhuh....

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 06:38 PM
Let's make it fair. Those that side with McD can have a the Kool-Aid man as a avatar...those that dislike McD can have a crying child as an avatar and those on the fence can just have a fence as an avatar.

That way we're all labeled and we dont have to make extended posts discussing the labelling and language that EVERYONE here is guilty of.

Work for you?

Damn you, Coach... Kool Aid Man is badass.. a crying baby sucks.

I want a picture of McDaniels stroking Kyle Ortons' neckbeard with a big assed slash through both!

That should be the new "haters" avatar! :D

Bosco
04-14-2010, 06:40 PM
This team was better with the "over rated" QB We were? I'm pretty certain we put up the same record against a tougher schedule while Orton actually outperformed Cutler.


and was better with the "over rated" WR. I think we should wait until we actually play some football before we make such a declaration, don't you?


Jesus freakin' Christ.

Have that many people forgotten that this team was pathetic in Shanahan's last two Seasons?

Talk about the Offense with Cutler all you want. Lots of turnovers and ineffective in the red zone.

The defense? I wont even mention it.

Shanny became virtually ineffective, the team not showing up, getting destroyed regularly, worst D in the NFL, ravaged by injuries due to weak practices for two straight Seasons? 1 Playoff win and 1 Division title in 10 years post-Elway, and .500 over the last 3 Seasons?? C'mon, a change was necessary. He'll succeed in Washington, but that is because of a change in scenery, AND he finally has a good QB.

McDaniels is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get this team winning again, and SD wont dominate the AFCW forever, theyll be knocked down sooner rather than later.

Jay Cutler. You want out of Denver? Complaining about dimissing a Coach who deserved to get the axe? You wanna cry about how the new Coach doesnt treat you so special? Ignoring calls from the owner? Your Pro Bowl year you didnt even deserve it (Rivers unfortunately), AND youre an INT machine? Good ****ing riddance.

Brandon Marshall. Youre overdramatizing injuries? Smacking your chick around? Futzin' off in practice? Becoming virtually a cancer in the locker room? Bringin' it only when you think you need to? Get the **** away from my team.

The Denver Broncos have been the Denver Mediocres for far too long. Im with McDaniels until I see proof that what he is doing is not working, and that isnt here yet. Sure last year was extremely disappointing, but it was his first Season, and he did no worse than Shanahan wouldve done with his cellar dweller defense.

Orton wasnt the answer, he was the best serviceable QB McD could have gotten for Cutler so I was for that move. We all know Orton isnt the long term answer, it may be Quinn or whomever they Draft this year (we all know their gonna Draft another, possibly Tebow).

People need to get results on the Field before McD is condemned, and after one Season, we dont have that. The minute I see the Broncos fail and McDaniels is proven ineffective, I'll be behind him being shown the door 100%.

McD has forgotten more about Football than we'll ever know. He didn't come in and dismantle a perennial AFC West Champion. He's dismantling and rebuilding a mediocre .500 Football team. Stop acting like the Denver Broncos were some incredible AFC juggernaut force to be reckoned with in the AFC like Pitt, Indy, SD or NE.

Here ye! HERE-MOTHER****ING-YE!

This guy gets it!


I call bullshit, if we would have retained the core of the offense and improved it with a player here and there, we wouldn't be rebuilding. We would have not had to rebuild anything beyond our horrid defense. We're in fact rebuilding because of McDaniels' arrogant stand on his ideal football team. If we would have had the offense we had in 08' with the defense we had in 09' we more then likely would have outright won the division and been in the playoffs! Instead being pissed at McDaniels, you should be pissed at Shanahan for acquiring a lot of offensive talent but letting their egos and attitudes get so out of hand that when Josh showed up his first order of business was basically a wholesale attitude adjustment for the team.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 06:46 PM
Have that many people forgotten that this team was pathetic in Shanahan's last two Seasons?

Talk about the Offense with Cutler all you want. Lots of turnovers and ineffective in the red zone.

The defense? I wont even mention it.

Shanny became virtually ineffective, the team not showing up, getting destroyed regularly, worst D in the NFL, ravaged by injuries due to weak practices for two straight Seasons? 1 Playoff win and 1 Division title in 10 years post-Elway, and .500 over the last 3 Seasons?? C'mon, a change was necessary. He'll succeed in Washington, but that is because of a change in scenery, AND he finally has a good QB.

McDaniels is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get this team winning again, and SD wont dominate the AFCW forever, theyll be knocked down sooner rather than later.

Jay Cutler. You want out of Denver? Complaining about dimissing a Coach who deserved to get the axe? You wanna cry about how the new Coach doesnt treat you so special? Ignoring calls from the owner? Your Pro Bowl year you didnt even deserve it (Rivers unfortunately), AND youre an INT machine? Good ****ing riddance.

Brandon Marshall. Youre overdramatizing injuries? Smacking your chick around? Futzin' off in practice? Becoming virtually a cancer in the locker room? Bringin' it only when you think you need to? Get the **** away from my team.

The Denver Broncos have been the Denver Mediocres for far too long. Im with McDaniels until I see proof that what he is doing is not working, and that isnt here yet. Sure last year was extremely disappointing, but it was his first Season, and he did no worse than Shanahan wouldve done with his cellar dweller defense.

Orton wasnt the answer, he was the best serviceable QB McD could have gotten for Cutler so I was for that move. We all know Orton isnt the long term answer, it may be Quinn or whomever they Draft this year (we all know their gonna Draft another, possibly Tebow).

People need to get results on the Field before McD is condemned, and after one Season, we dont have that. The minute I see the Broncos fail and McDaniels is proven ineffective, I'll be behind him being shown the door 100%.

McD has forgotten more about Football than we'll ever know. He didn't come in and dismantle a perennial AFC West Champion. He's dismantling and rebuilding a mediocre .500 Football team. Stop acting like the Denver Broncos were some incredible AFC juggernaut force to be reckoned with in the AFC like Pitt, Indy, SD or NE.

QFT (minus the initial exclamation). Pretty good post.

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Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 06:46 PM
He didn't put up better numbers.. and to try and compare a single season is short sighted and ridiculous. You think the team is better off, in the long run, because we had the same record in one season? Really? I've heard this before from posters, and its just absurd every time I read it.

We should be pissed at Shanahan?? WTF??? because McD can't get along with anyone? He couldn't get along with his Defensive coordinator he hired, is that Shanahan's fault too? That has to be one of the most asinine comments I've read. Blame a guy that got along fine with the players, that wasn't even on the team, because McD can't and has to ship them away.... Oooookayyy.... nothing like doing your best to simply close you reyes and remove ALLLLL fault with those that are ACTUALLY involved. Brilliant.

BroncoJoe
04-14-2010, 06:48 PM
LOL at the title of this thread. A completely mediocre team for the past four years, constantly "reloading" instead of doing what we should have done. Scrap heap, start fresh.

I look forward to next year.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 06:52 PM
It's amazing that Vonnie Holliday, Lonie Paxton, Jabar Gaffney, Lamont Jordan,
and Kenny Peterson, all who played for or with McDaniels, followed McDaniels to
the Broncos last year, and a reason each gave for that was McDaniels himself,
isn't it?

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HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 06:53 PM
Instead being pissed at McDaniels, you should be pissed at Shanahan for acquiring a lot of offensive talent but letting their egos and attitudes get so out of hand that when Josh showed up his first order of business was basically a wholesale attitude adjustment for the team.

SO, if you're the boss and you have a personality conflict with an employee you just transfer him to another office? Maybe you should MAN THE HELL UP AND BE THE GOD-DAMNED BOSS AND STOP GIVING THESE GUYS WHAT THEY WANT!

Amazingly, Cutler threw a tantrum, demanded a trade, got what he wanted and a raise to boot, and the Broncos suffered for it.

Now Marshall wanted a trade or a contract, acted out, and what did we do? We traded him and he's getting his big new contract and we're left holding the bag with just one more need to fill that wasn't a frickin' need two days ago.

Now, we'll probably trade Scheffler and the same thing will happen. Does that sound like good management skills to you? Effective leadership? From the outside, it looks like players are bullying their way out of town because they don't like McDaniels. Gee, when all the ex-Pats and washed up old injured FAs dry up, who is going to want to sign here who could play elsewhere for a better coach with a better team?

I'm a BRONCO FAN and the Broncos wouldn't be in my top ten of places to play as a FA right now!

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 06:54 PM
It's amazing that Vonnie Holliday, Lonie Paxton, Jabar Gaffney, Lamont Jordan,
and Kenny Peterson, all who played for or with McDaniels, followed McDaniels to
the Broncos last year, and a reason each gave for that was McDaniels himself,
isn't it?

-----

Or, maybe because he was the only guy who would not only give them a job, but overpay the hell out of them, too? Oh, and Peterson was already here. Vonnie Holliday was a Mike Nolan guy, not a McDaniels guy..

turftoad
04-14-2010, 06:57 PM
It's amazing that Vonnie Holliday, Lonie Paxton, Jabar Gaffney, Lamont Jordan,
and Kenny Peterson, all who played for or with McDaniels, followed McDaniels to
the Broncos last year, and a reason each gave for that was McDaniels himself,
isn't it?

-----

Not a great list of names Top. He must have told them they would start in Denver. All below average players. Not an impressive group. :tsk:

Peterson, Jordan and Holliday will be gone and Paxton? Well he's a long snapper. Gaffney is a #3 at best on most teams. :tsk:

Not a good example.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 06:57 PM
Or, maybe because he was the only guy who would not only give them a job, but overpay the hell out of them, too?

I provided the fact that they all followed McDaniels here.

I provided the fact that they all gave McDaniels as a reason they came here. (It is
all recorded in tapes of their respective interviews, and most of us have heard it.)

Is what you just said fact or did you just think that up?

-----

topscribe
04-14-2010, 06:58 PM
Not a great list of names Top. He must have told them they would start in Denver. All below average players. Not an impressive group. :tsk:

Peterson, Jordan and Holliday will be gone and Paxton? Well he's a long snapper. Gaffney is a #3 at best on most teams. :tsk:

Not a good example.

Really? So the fact they are not superstars reflects on their integrity?

Is that what you are saying?

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Bosco
04-14-2010, 07:01 PM
He didn't put up better numbers..Oh yes he did.


and to try and compare a single season is short sighted and ridiculous. You're right, Orton was at a huge disadvantage being that he was part of a offense that was completely in flux while Cutler was the only one changing systems in Chicago. Funny how Orton still out performed him.


We should be pissed at Shanahan?? WTF??? Yes, you should.


because McD can't get along with anyone? Again I ask, who couldn't he get along with?


He couldn't get along with his Defensive coordinator he hired Nolan and McDaniels troubles stem solely from their differences in football philosophy. There was never any personal issues between them.


That has to be one of the most asinine comments I've read. Blame a guy that got along fine with the players, that wasn't even on the team, because McD can't and has to ship them away.... Oooookayyy.... nothing like doing your best to simply close you reyes and remove ALLLLL fault with those that are ACTUALLY involved. Brilliant. Shanahan got along fine with all his players? Did you forget IHOP's comments? Simeon Rice's? Foxworth's? Hell, D.J Williams said the defense felt like second class citizens under Shanahan. John Lynch came out and said that under Shanahan, alot of the younger offensive "stars" (he mentioned Cutler by name) were basically allowed to do whatever they pleased.

Face it. Shanahan ran a very loose ship and that worked fine when we had Elway, Atwater, Sharpe, etc...guys who weren't afraid to put their foot in the asses of people who weren't doing what was best for the team. As time went on the veteran presence on this team declined and Shanahan never adjusted.

turftoad
04-14-2010, 07:09 PM
Really? So the fact they are not superstars reflects on their integrity?

Is that what you are saying?

-----

Who said anything about integrity??

All I'm saying is that with players like that we'll be celler dwellers for ever if thats the kind of players that follow McDaniels around. They all suck Top. Role players at best.

Bosco
04-14-2010, 07:12 PM
SO, if you're the boss and you have a personality conflict with an employee you just transfer him to another office? Maybe you should MAN THE HELL UP AND BE THE GOD-DAMNED BOSS AND STOP GIVING THESE GUYS WHAT THEY WANT!

I agree, and that's exactly what Josh planned to do with Cutler until Cutler pissed off Bowlen and Bowlen forced the trade.

As for Marshall, his baggage had simply reached a point where the team felt he wasn't worth the payday he wanted, so they moved him when they could still get value in return.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:12 PM
Who said anything about integrity??

All I'm saying is that with players like that we'll be celler dwellers for ever if thats the kind of players that follow McDaniels around. They all suck Top. Role players at best.

You are still equating their integrity with the quality of player they are.

I presented what they did (signed with the Broncos) and what they said
(McDaniels is a reason for their being here). Now, whether they are first string or
scrubs does not make a difference to me. A scrub can tell the truth just as easily
as can a superstar. So what you are presenting makes no sense . . .

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Dreadnought
04-14-2010, 07:13 PM
Not a great list of names Top. He must have told them they would start in Denver. All below average players. Not an impressive group. :tsk:

Peterson, Jordan and Holliday will be gone and Paxton? Well he's a long snapper. Gaffney is a #3 at best on most teams. :tsk:

Not a good example.

Agreed - a collection of duds and stiffs, who knew of at least one guy who would still provide them with a last year's worth of paychecks before they washed out of the NFL for good. I don't blame 'em for taking Pat's money under the circumstances - I'd do the same.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:15 PM
There are two facts here:

1. The aforementioned players all signed with Denver last year.

2. Each gave McDaniels as a reason they are here.

Everything else is speculation.

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shanahanfan24
04-14-2010, 07:18 PM
Brandon marshal is the only weapon the broncos had....i think we were better off with him but i wasnt suprized when he was traded i also wish we still had peyton hillis i loved watching him run when he did

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 07:19 PM
I provided the fact that they all followed McDaniels here.

I provided the fact that they all gave McDaniels as a reason they came here. (It is
all recorded in tapes of their respective interviews, and most of us have heard it.)

Is what you just said fact or did you just think that up?

-----

FACT: He overpaid the dogshit out of Lonnie Paxton. Our LS was just as good and 1/10th the price.

Of course they "named McDaniels" as their reason! HE RECRUITED THEM, HE interviewed them and they were directly asked what they thought of playing for McDaniels in those interviews.. what are they gonna say in those interviews? "Nah man, McDaniels is an arrogant *****, I just came here because he was dumb enough to sign my old, broken down ass..."

C'mon! Are you feeling okay?

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:20 PM
Brandon marshal is the only weapon the broncos had....i think we were better off with him but i wasnt suprized when he was traded i also wish we still had peyton hillis i loved watching him run when he did

Welcome to the board, S24. :welcome:

-----

T.K.O.
04-14-2010, 07:20 PM
i just think it's sad when a thread about the destruction of the broncos gets 12 X the posts as one with the release of our 2010 opponents.....just sad....you bunch of babies

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:21 PM
FACT: He overpaid the dogshit out of Lonnie Paxton. Our LS was just as good and 1/10th the price.

Of course they "named McDaniels" as their reason! HE RECRUITED THEM, HE interviewed them and they were directly asked what they thought of playing for McDaniels in those interviews.. what are they gonna say in those interviews? "Nah man, McDaniels is an arrogant *****, I just came here because he was dumb enough to sign my old, broken down ass..."

C'mon! Are you feeling okay?

There are two facts here:

1. The aforementioned players all signed with Denver last year.

2. Each gave McDaniels as a reason they are here.

Everything else is speculation.

-----

Bosco
04-14-2010, 07:23 PM
FACT: He overpaid the dogshit out of Lonnie Paxton. Our LS was just as good and 1/10th the price. Actually no. Paxton is better than Leach.


Of course they "named McDaniels" as their reason! HE RECRUITED THEM, HE interviewed them and they were directly asked what they thought of playing for McDaniels in those interviews.. what are they gonna say in those interviews? "Nah man, McDaniels is an arrogant *****, I just came here because he was dumb enough to sign my old, broken down ass..." So you're saying guys like Gaffney, Paxton, Holliday, Hill, Goodman and others wouldn't have found similar jobs had Josh not signed them?

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 07:25 PM
There are two facts here:

1. The aforementioned players all signed with Denver last year.

2. Each gave McDaniels as a reason they are here.

Everything else is speculation.

-----

You know, for a guy who likes to call himself "topscribe", I'd expect more than just "well, they said in their interview that McDaniels was the reason..."

Really? Has there EVER been an interview in the HISTORY OF PRO SPORTS in which a FREE AGENT didn't SITE THE COACH AS ONE OF THE REASONS he signed there? Ever?

Ever, Ever, Ever???

Yeah, thought not... It proves NOTHING.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:27 PM
You know, for a guy who likes to call himself "topscribe", I'd expect more than just "well, they said in their interview that McDaniels was the reason..."

Really? Has there EVER been an interview in the HISTORY OF PRO SPORTS in which a FREE AGENT didn't SITE THE COACH AS ONE OF THE REASONS he signed there? Ever?

Ever, Ever, Ever???

Yeah, thought not... It proves NOTHING.

Fine. Then nothing is proven.

Your speculation surely does not prove anything, now, does it?

-----

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:29 PM
Actually no. Paxton is better than Leach.

So you're saying guys like Gaffney, Paxton, Holliday, Hill, Goodman and others wouldn't have found similar jobs had Josh not signed them?

That seems to be their gist.

Along with that they apparently are not honest men . . . :coffee:

-----

turftoad
04-14-2010, 07:30 PM
Fine. Then nothing is proven.

Your speculation surely does not prove anything, now, does it?

-----

It is not speculation that the aforementioned players are scrubs.

Not a big feather in McD's hat Top.

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 07:30 PM
Actually no. Paxton is better than Leach.

Really, how so? How many bad snaps cost us games when Leach was our long snapper? I can't think of ANY. How many STs tackles did Leach make on punts returns... a surprisingly high number for a long snapper. Even if they were equal, why pay Paxton 10X as much to do the same job???


So you're saying guys like Gaffney, Paxton, Holliday, Hill, Goodman and others wouldn't have found similar jobs had Josh not signed them?

Goodman was probably the only one who would've started elsewhere. Hill, Holiday, Gaffney, and Jordan hadn't gotten a sniff from anyone else in FA. Had they been signed, they'd have been backups elswhere (as Gaffney, Holliday, and Jordan were, anyway)

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:31 PM
It is not speculation that the aforementioned players are scrubs.

Not a big feather in McD's hat Top.

The issue is how well McD gets along with people.

-----

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:36 PM
Goodman was probably the only one who would've started elsewhere. Hill, Holiday, Gaffney, and Jordan hadn't gotten a sniff from anyone else in FA. Had they been signed, they'd have been backups elswhere (as Gaffney, Holliday, and Jordan were, anyway)

You mentioned Hill?

He was 25% of the secondary that finished as the #3 pass defense in the league.

-----

T.K.O.
04-14-2010, 07:36 PM
It is not speculation that the aforementioned players are scrubs.

Not a big feather in McD's hat Top.

you callin' my broncos scrubs?
c'mon dude ....players come and go you'll be allright when we take the division next year:D

Dreadnought
04-14-2010, 07:37 PM
The issue is how well McD gets along with people.

-----
Exactly, and its now a proven commodity. We saw the results in November - January '09. He is a flat failure at it.

T.K.O.
04-14-2010, 07:38 PM
is this a hatefest .....or what?:confused:
i love it !:D
understand this people....we have been a .500 team for 4 yrs....if it gets worse we get a higher draft pick ....if it gets better its GRAVY !

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:41 PM
Exactly, and its now a proven commodity. We saw the results in November - January '09. He is a flat failure at it.

Elaborate, please. Anything beyond an adolescent Cutler and a headcase Marshall?

-----

Dreadnought
04-14-2010, 07:44 PM
is this a hatefest .....or what?:confused:
i love it !:D
understand this people....we have been a .500 team for 4 yrs....if it gets worse we get a higher draft pick ....if it gets better its GRAVY !

No, you know what it is? For the first time in my life we have draft day coming up - and i don't care. I won't be watching, and my interest is academic in that I hope we draft guys who McDaniels' successor can work with. I skipped the last three games of '09 in disgust. I cancelled my Sunday ticket for 2010, after having wasted my money on it in '09.

This Totally Sucks. Josh McDaniels has killed a lifelong passion for me. Dead as mutton. I cannot make myself care much about this team until the exact moment they fire his worthless Ass. I have followed this team since 1967, through good years and bad, and i've never felt this utter lack of interest.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:51 PM
No, you know what it is? For the first time in my life we have draft day coming up - and i don't care. I won't be watching, and my interest is academic in that I hope we draft guys who McDaniels' successor can work with. I skipped the last three games of '09 in disgust. I cancelled my Sunday ticket for 2010, after having wasted my money on it in '09.

This Totally Sucks. Josh McDaniels has killed a lifelong passion for me. Dead as mutton. I cannot make myself care much about this team until the exact moment they fire his worthless Ass. I have followed this team since 1967, through good years and bad, and i've never felt this utter lack of interest.

I'm sorry for you. I have been following the Broncos for about five months short of
50 years. I went through the first 14 years without knowing what a winning
season was with the Broncos, which included some incredible clowns for coaches
and QBs . . . and players in the majority of other positions. The Broncos were a
bye week for other teams.

Somehow, I never lost my passion and zeal for them throughout then and all
the rest of the past half century. And today? Hell, we have a juggernaut
compared to then.

Maybe McDaniels is the bum you suggest he is. Maybe he's a good coach. I don't
know . . . I'm actually on the fence. But I'm still proud and thrilled to be a fan of
the Broncos.

Hell, it has just occurred to me: I'm wearing a Plummer jersey as I write this . . .

-----

Lancane
04-14-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm sorry for you. I have been following the Broncos for about five months short of
50 years. I went through the first 14 years without knowing what a winning
season was with the Broncos, which included some incredible clowns for coaches
and QBs . . . and players in the majority of other positions. The Broncos were a
bye week for other teams.

Somehow, I never lost my passion and zeal for them throughout then and all
the rest of the past half century. And today? Hell, we have a juggernaut
compared to then.

Maybe McDaniels is the bum you suggest he is. Maybe he's a good coach. I don't
know . . . I'm actually on the fence. But I'm still proud and thrilled to be a fan of
the Broncos.

Hell, it has just occurred to me: I'm wearing a Plummer jersey as I write this . . .

-----

Damn you're old... (((Kidding)))

:D





:lol:

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Damn you're old... (((Kidding)))

:D





:lol:

Listen, sonny . . . just because I can go as many rounds doesn't mean I can't plow just as deep . . . :coffee:

-----

Lancane
04-14-2010, 07:55 PM
Listen, sonny . . . just because I can go as many rounds doesn't mean I can't plow just as deep . . . :coffee:

-----

Maybe it's me...but that really did not sound right to this youngin'!...Hahaha.

:laugh:

claymore
04-14-2010, 07:56 PM
Listen, sonny . . . just because I can go as many rounds doesn't mean I can't plow just as deep . . . :coffee:

-----


Maybe it's me...but that really did not sound right to this youngin'!...Hahaha.

:laugh:

I threw up in my mouth a little. :(

Nomad
04-14-2010, 07:58 PM
Truly amazing seeing grown men shivel into depression/anxiety/high blood pressure over a pro football team that could give two shits about them!:lol: Maybe I'm not as diehard as I thought

topscribe
04-14-2010, 07:58 PM
I threw up in my mouth a little. :(

Go away, Clay.

I am NOT turning out the goat for you . . .

-----

claymore
04-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Truly amazing seeing grown men shivel into depression/anxiety/high blood pressure over a pro football team that could give two shits about them!:lol: Maybe I'm not as diehard as I thought

I think it would kind of scare you, if you knew how bad I used to be. :D

HORSEPOWER 56
04-14-2010, 08:01 PM
No, you know what it is? For the first time in my life we have draft day coming up - and i don't care. I won't be watching, and my interest is academic in that I hope we draft guys who McDaniels' successor can work with. I skipped the last three games of '09 in disgust. I cancelled my Sunday ticket for 2010, after having wasted my money on it in '09.

This Totally Sucks. Josh McDaniels has killed a lifelong passion for me. Dead as mutton. I cannot make myself care much about this team until the exact moment they fire his worthless Ass. I have followed this team since 1967, through good years and bad, and i've never felt this utter lack of interest.

Damn brother. That's some intense stuff right there. I'm not quite at that point, yet but I feel now like I did when Phillips was the HC. I thought he was a clown and couldn't wait to see him fired, but at least back then we had Elway to look to as the face of the franchise and be the real leader behind the doofus.

We don't have anyone except McDaniels as the face of the franchise, now. He's completely Bellicheated himself into that spot by eliminating any competition to his dominance of all things that symbolize the Broncos and surrounded himself with yes-men and stooges in both the FO and the locker room. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for success this season and I'll be rooting for the team, but for God's sake I just can't find where this team is better now than we were January 1st of last year. Different yes, better no. Right now it only looks like we're going backwards at an alarming rate.

claymore
04-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Listen, sonny . . . just because I can go as many rounds doesn't mean I can't plow just as deep . . . :coffee:

-----

So let me get this straight in my mind....... Your dik shrank, but you can go balls deep for a long time?

claymore
04-14-2010, 08:04 PM
No, you know what it is? For the first time in my life we have draft day coming up - and i don't care. I won't be watching, and my interest is academic in that I hope we draft guys who McDaniels' successor can work with. I skipped the last three games of '09 in disgust. I cancelled my Sunday ticket for 2010, after having wasted my money on it in '09.

This Totally Sucks. Josh McDaniels has killed a lifelong passion for me. Dead as mutton. I cannot make myself care much about this team until the exact moment they fire his worthless Ass. I have followed this team since 1967, through good years and bad, and i've never felt this utter lack of interest.

I agree a 100%. exact same way I feel.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 08:06 PM
So let me get this straight in my mind....... Your dik shrank, but you can go balls deep for a long time?

Get your mind out of the gutter, sonny, before I put a whoopin' on you your
grandkids will be telling their kids about . . .

-----

Lancane
04-14-2010, 08:07 PM
So let me get this straight in my mind....... Your dik shrank, but you can go balls deep for a long time?

This type of talk makes it sound like this is the American Porn Association's message boards!

:eek:

claymore
04-14-2010, 08:08 PM
This type of talk makes it sound like this is the American Porn Association's message boards!

:eek:

Top has been sending me some pretty frank emails lately. I wanted to clear something up in Public before we take it to the next level.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 08:12 PM
Top has been sending me some pretty frank emails lately. I wanted to clear something up in Public before we take it to the next level.

Absolutely not true.

I'm not coming near you until I am absolutely convinced you and Beef are through . . .

-----

claymore
04-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Absolutely not true.

I'm not coming near you until I am absolutely convinced you and Beef are through . . .

-----

I want to make a child with you. We can name It BuffScribe.

topscribe
04-14-2010, 08:15 PM
I want to make a child with you. We can name It BuffScribe.

How about you just go with Buff and call it MoreScribe?

-----

Dreadnought
04-14-2010, 08:24 PM
Damn brother. That's some intense stuff right there. I'm not quite at that point, yet but I feel now like I did when Phillips was the HC. I thought he was a clown and couldn't wait to see him fired, but at least back then we had Elway to look to as the face of the franchise and be the real leader behind the doofus.

We don't have anyone except McDaniels as the face of the franchise, now. He's completely Bellicheated himself into that spot by eliminating any competition to his dominance of all things that symbolize the Broncos and surrounded himself with yes-men and stooges in both the FO and the locker room. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for success this season and I'll be rooting for the team, but for God's sake I just can't find where this team is better now than we were January 1st of last year. Different yes, better no. Right now it only looks like we're going backwards at an alarming rate.

Wade Phillips was different. I thought he was a fundamentally good guy, and really wanted it to work for him.Ralston was a good guy, built a great roster (built the Orange Crush), but couldn't get to the next level - esp. after pats offensive coordinator Red Miller dismantled his defense. - and so we hired Miller. I Loved Miller. Then after a few years Red Miller bet his career on useless Matt Robinson as franchise QB, and in comes Dan Reeves. Loved Dan Reeves. He reignited Craig Morton's career in '81, and got us 3 more AFC Championships. Eventually ran out of ideas i think, so in come Wade Phillips - who I think saved Elway's career, which he rarely gets credit for - because he couldn't run a defense or running game to save his life. So in comes Mike Shanahan. THE coach. Superbowls XXXII and XXXIII. Best years of football fandom imaginable, but he cut his own throat with worthless D coordinators, and now we get stuck with a dishonest four-flusher as HC, with a personality that near perfectly embodies every single human trait I detest.

Bosco
04-14-2010, 08:24 PM
It is not speculation that the aforementioned players are scrubs. You don't know shit about football if you call those players scrubs.


Really, how so? How many bad snaps cost us games when Leach was our long snapper? I can't think of ANY. How many STs tackles did Leach make on punts returns... a surprisingly high number for a long snapper. Even if they were equal, why pay Paxton 10X as much to do the same job??? I never said Leach was a bad long snapper. We simply replaced a really good one with an elite one.


Goodman was probably the only one who would've started elsewhere. Wrong.


Hill A good but not great safety who started with Goodman in Miami. He would have signed somewhere as a starter for certain.


Holiday Had alot of action but was asking too much money. When the market thinned and he lowered his price he got a job very quickly.


Gaffney Another one and Jordan hadn't gotten a sniff from anyone else in FA.[/QUOTE] Most of these guys were signed within a couple days of free agency opening.

Northman
04-14-2010, 08:29 PM
Somehow, I never lost my passion and zeal for them throughout then and all
the rest of the past half century. And today? Hell, we have a juggernaut
compared to then.

Maybe McDaniels is the bum you suggest he is. Maybe he's a good coach. I don't
know . . . I'm actually on the fence. But I'm still proud and thrilled to be a fan of
the Broncos.




Amen. Anyone expecting us to be at the top forever is just kidding themselves. Its not the first time this team has faced adversity and it wont be the last. But im still passionate now as i was then i just happen to have a much better grasp and understanding on how the NFL works.

dogfish
04-14-2010, 08:33 PM
No, you know what it is? For the first time in my life we have draft day coming up - and i don't care. I won't be watching, and my interest is academic in that I hope we draft guys who McDaniels' successor can work with. I skipped the last three games of '09 in disgust. I cancelled my Sunday ticket for 2010, after having wasted my money on it in '09.

This Totally Sucks. Josh McDaniels has killed a lifelong passion for me. Dead as mutton. I cannot make myself care much about this team until the exact moment they fire his worthless Ass. I have followed this team since 1967, through good years and bad, and i've never felt this utter lack of interest.

it's not ALL bad. . . at least you don't have to watch jake plummer anymore. . .

Lancane
04-14-2010, 08:35 PM
it's not ALL bad. . . at least you don't have to watch jake plummer anymore. . .

Let's trade Orton and re-sign Plummer, I'm game...

dogfish
04-14-2010, 08:35 PM
I never said Leach was a bad long snapper. We simply replaced a really good one with an elite one.


okay, wait, i gotta ask. . . is there really any such thing as an "elite" long snapper?

:laugh:

how many degrees of "don't **** it up" are there?

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 08:36 PM
Let's trade Orton and re-sign Plummer, I'm game...

Crap... I can't believe even I would be happy about that. I would love to see McD and Plummer try to get along :lol:

dogfish
04-14-2010, 08:36 PM
Let's trade Orton and re-sign Plummer, I'm game...

aw heeell no!


:lol:

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 08:37 PM
okay, wait, i gotta ask. . . is there really any such thing as an "elite" long snapper?

:laugh:

how many degrees of "don't **** it up" are there?

I was going to say something....but just let it past considering.

How "elite" can you really be as a LS?? If one guy didn't make a single mistake... how many of those other "no mistakes" makes you elite? Makes no sense. This is PURE BS. I'm guessing he ran out of ways to blow smoke up McD's ass.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 08:38 PM
aw heeell no!


:lol:

Dog...if you only knew. I hate Plummer with a fierce passion...but I can forget it at this point, because I completely loath Orton!

Dreadnought
04-14-2010, 08:43 PM
Dog...if you only knew. I hate Plummer with a fierce passion...but I can forget it at this point, because I completely loath Orton!

I dislike Plummer far more than Orton, TBH. I don't think Orton is a very good QB, but I like him and his work ethic and want him to do well. Its like I root for the "slow" kid on my daughter's soccer team...

Plummer? Plenty of talent but too lazy to put in the work. Brian Griese > Plummer

Bosco
04-14-2010, 08:45 PM
okay, wait, i gotta ask. . . is there really any such thing as an "elite" long snapper?

:laugh:

how many degrees of "don't **** it up" are there?

Well yeah, there is. It's hard to tell though and most casual fans couldn't tell the difference as long as the snap gets there, but just like every position there's guys who get the job done, guys who are really good and guys who are elite.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 08:46 PM
I dislike Plummer far more than Orton, TBH. I don't think Orton is a very good QB, but I like him and his work ethic and want him to do well. Its like I root for the "slow" kid on my daughter's soccer team...

Plummer? Plenty of talent but too lazy to put in the work. Brian Griese > Plummer

So you cheer for kids from the Short Bus, then you should be happy with the majority of those remaining on the offensive side of the ball. Half of them seem to be rejects from Jerry's Kids. Oops, I guess I should not have stated that out in the open...lol.

:lol:

NameUsedBefore
04-14-2010, 08:47 PM
I dislike Plummer far more than Orton, TBH. I don't think Orton is a very good QB, but I like him and his work ethic and want him to do well. Its like I root for the "slow" kid on my daughter's soccer team...

Plummer? Plenty of talent but too lazy to put in the work. Brian Griese > Plummer

Combine the two and remove the weaknesses (aloofness, laziness) and you'd have a pretty solid quarterback.

Lancane
04-14-2010, 08:48 PM
Combine the two and remove the weaknesses (aloofness, laziness) and you'd have a pretty solid quarterback.

No that's called Joe Montana and I don't think too many people would mind if we did have him.

Bosco
04-14-2010, 08:49 PM
I was going to say something....but just let it past considering.

How "elite" can you really be as a LS?? If one guy didn't make a single mistake... how many of those other "no mistakes" makes you elite? Makes no sense. This is PURE BS. I'm guessing he ran out of ways to blow smoke up McD's ass.

You're the guy who tried to tell us that Cutler was better than Orton in 2009 and that our punting got worse when we brought in Berger. You can't even be bothered to look at a stat sheet to check your statements for accuracy, so I doubt you're qualified to discuss the intricacies of long snapping.

EMB6903
04-14-2010, 08:51 PM
You're the guy who tried to tell us that Cutler was better than Orton in 2009 and that our punting got worse when we brought in Berger. You can't even be bothered to look at a stat sheet to check your statements for accuracy, so I doubt you're qualified to discuss the intricacies of long snapping.

Forget stats, whoever thinks Orton has ever been a better QB then Jay Cutler is crazy.

Ravage!!!
04-14-2010, 08:52 PM
You're the guy who tried to tell us that Cutler was better than Orton in 2009 and that our punting got worse when we brought in Berger. You can't even be bothered to look at a stat sheet to check your statements for accuracy, so I doubt you're qualified to discuss the intricacies of long snapping.

yes yes yes :lol: But you are! I mean.... you have DAZZLED us with yoru Brilliance and dumbfounded us with your knowledge. We are all in your debt for gracing us with your presence and humbling us with your superior opinion.

Please... Oh Bosco one.... please enlighten us with how our current LS is elite and how that 'eliteness' is superior than our previous LS?? Please oh please? :lol:

dogfish
04-14-2010, 08:53 PM
Dog...if you only knew. I hate Plummer with a fierce passion...but I can forget it at this point, because I completely loath Orton!

i'm with dread-- i tend to think they're comparable in terms of talent (although plummer was clearly a better pure athlete), but i respect orton far more because he takes his job seriously and does his best. . . and in general, is just not a bum. . .

Dreadnought
04-14-2010, 08:54 PM
Combine the two and remove the weaknesses (aloofness, laziness) and you'd have a pretty solid quarterback.

Agreed - but I think BG's problem was less Aloofness than having a brittle psyche and an arm that was never all that strong even before it was seperated against the Raiders in 2000, and which was downright feeble after that. Then Eddie McCaffrey gets hurt 9/10/01, BG forgets we have any receiver who is not named Rod Smith for the rest of the year, and his career is essentially over. Weird.

dogfish
04-14-2010, 08:54 PM
Well yeah, there is. It's hard to tell though and most casual fans couldn't tell the difference as long as the snap gets there, but just like every position there's guys who get the job done, guys who are really good and guys who are elite.

well, shit, i guess we can't all be bobby april. . . .

Lancane
04-14-2010, 08:54 PM
i'm with dread-- i tend to think they're comparable in terms of talent (although plummer was clearly a better pure athlete), but i respect orton far more because he takes his job seriously and does his best. . . and in general, is just not a bum. . .

Come on, all men should aspire to play the sport of handball! :lol: