Quick Marshall discussion by Mike Lombardi on NFLN

[JONtheBRONCO]

Says the Denver Broncos are still asking for a 1st round pick and that they will not negotiate anything less than that. Said something along the lines of, 'nothing less and why would they when he can come back and be a very big player for them next year.' When Washington was brought up as a possible landing spot for Marshall, Lombardi said it could happen, but a 2011 1st round pick and maybe more would be the appropriate compensation. When Seattle was thrown out there Lombardi said the Seahawks have "genuine interest" in Marshall and look for Marshall trade talks to heat up within the next 2 weeks.

[Lonestar]

Please God in Heaven let there be talks and a good BM.

[DenBronx]

Please God in Heaven let there be talks and a good BM.

Yes, please God wake up our organization so they can see the light and give "The Beast" a new contract. I also ask that he will always bleed orange and blue and remain a Bronco forever and ever and ever.

Amen!

[Italianmobstr7]

Yes, please God wake up our organization so they can see the light and give "The Beast" a new contract. I also ask that he will always bleed orange and blue and remain a Bronco forever and ever and ever.

Amen!

I second this!

[T.K.O.]

and a good BM.
:lol::lol::lol:

[turftoad]

Yeah, great idea. Lets talk about the Marshall sitch a little more. :D

[horsepig]

Please God in Heaven let there be talks and a good BM.

Jr., I know you hate BM, but just what do you hope to get with the 29'th pick, or the 45'th?

A player of even remotely close to BM's talent?

[Northman]

Im glad they will take no less than a first.

[hamrob]

They need to toe the line on this. Anything less than a 1st rounder is robbery.

[guitarj]

Jr., I know you hate BM, but just what do you hope to get with the 29'th pick, or the 45'th?



A team player!!

[dogfish]

A team player!!

a really huge fat one. . .

[TXBRONC]

a really huge fat one. . .

Absofriggenlutely. :salute:

[Ravage!!!]

A team player!!

you mean,.. TEAM... player

[topscribe]

They need to toe the line on this. Anything less than a 1st rounder is robbery.

Even a 1st is robbery, IMO. Whom in the 1st round would I rather have on the field than BMarsh?







:confused:







. . . can't think of any off the top . . .



-----

[WARHORSE]

Yes, please God wake up our organization so they can see the light and give "The Beast" a new contract. I also ask that he will always bleed orange and blue and remain a Bronco forever and ever and ever.

Amen!



Actually, lets pray that BM can become a responsible adult in the next week, learn to think of himself and his family, but also the interests of the team since they are the ones he wants to pay him a large amount of money for his services and understand that its a business investment for them. Also, to not throw tantrums since he is an adult now, and as well to be a great husband who values his wife, and would never do anything that would bring the police to his residence for any reason whatsoever.


I mean.....since we're praying and all.



:coffee:

[Lancane]

Either way, this situation is likely to come to a head within the next two weeks; Marshall is likely to schedule more visits, Seattle will pipe up more interest or we may actually see Denver do one better and sign him to a similar contract to what was offered last year but with some guaranteed money...especially if they do not feel that anyone in the draft is on the same level as Brandon, and the one that likely is - Dez Bryant has character questions himself, so do they remain with the proven or go with an unproven receiver. The other thing is that if Marshall is signed to a contract and has another Pro-Bowl year and he remains clean, then there may be more interest in his services the following year.

[BigBroncLove]

Actually, lets pray that BM can become a responsible adult in the next week, learn to think of himself and his family, but also the interests of the team since they are the ones he wants to pay him a large amount of money for his services and understand that its a business investment for them. Also, to not throw tantrums since he is an adult now, and as well to be a great husband who values his wife, and would never do anything that would bring the police to his residence for any reason whatsoever.


I mean.....since we're praying and all.



:coffee:

I'm praying he will still play at a top end level without distraction on his RFA tender :). All the incentive is there for him to do it, but if he stays in Denver I think it'll be on those terms and potentially it would be with zero pouting and him playing at his top level.

I'll also, for the beauty queen addition, pray for world peace too :D. High Five!

[DenBronx]

Actually, lets pray that BM can become a responsible adult in the next week, learn to think of himself and his family, but also the interests of the team since they are the ones he wants to pay him a large amount of money for his services and understand that its a business investment for them. Also, to not throw tantrums since he is an adult now, and as well to be a great husband who values his wife, and would never do anything that would bring the police to his residence for any reason whatsoever.


I mean.....since we're praying and all.



:coffee:



How about we pray to win a superbowl and stop playing passion police with everyones off field behaviors. I really don't care if he slipped on a happy meal bag.

:coffee:

Last time I checked the owners sign the checks....I just want to cheer my ass off when we score TD's on Sunday and if we have Gaffney starting then I highly doubt anyone will be doing much of any cheering.

:coffee:

:coffee:

:coffee:

[BroncoWave]

I don't understand why people act like Gaffney is some kind of scrub. I thought he played pretty well last year and would be more than serviceable as a starter. Now obviously he's no Marshall but he's nowhere near as bad as some on here make him out to be.

Just look back to the Chiefs game last year. People can say "yeah, it's just the chiefs" but it's those same Chiefs who smoked us by 30 and Gaffney was about the only player on the team who looked like he had a pulse that day.

[TimTebow15MVP]

we need to go ahead and resign marshall and draft bryant or spiller @ 11

[Lancane]

I don't understand why people act like Gaffney is some kind of scrub. I thought he played pretty well last year and would be more than serviceable as a starter. Now obviously he's no Marshall but he's nowhere near as bad as some on here make him out to be.

Just look back to the Chiefs game last year. People can say "yeah, it's just the chiefs" but it's those same Chiefs who smoked us by 30 and Gaffney was about the only player on the team who looked like he had a pulse that day.

He is a scrub, he has played with one of the league's best quarterbacks in Tom Brady for three seasons and still managed to put up nothing but meager numbers. He actually was declared a bust quite some time ago... He could not even win the number one slot when he was with the Texans! Now because he wears the orange and blue he has promise? I don't buy it, if he was so promising then why the hell did Orton continue to go to Marshall who according to many reporters on the outs with the team if Gaffney was so promising? There is no guarantee that Denver will trade Marshall and they still have been looking at some of this years better receivers in the draft, why? Could it be because they too feel he is not that great and would do better coming in off the bench?

[Lancane]

I don't understand why people act like Gaffney is some kind of scrub. I thought he played pretty well last year and would be more than serviceable as a starter. Now obviously he's no Marshall but he's nowhere near as bad as some on here make him out to be.

Just look back to the Chiefs game last year. People can say "yeah, it's just the chiefs" but it's those same Chiefs who smoked us by 30 and Gaffney was about the only player on the team who looked like he had a pulse that day.

If one game makes a career then there is a whole hell of a lot of All Pros in the league!

[DenBronx]

If one game makes a career then there is a whole hell of a lot of All Pros in the league!

I know right..

Hillis must be All Madden with his 100/100 game two years ago.

[BroncoWave]

He is a scrub, he has played with one of the league's best quarterbacks in Tom Brady for three seasons and still managed to put up nothing but meager numbers. He actually was declared a bust quite some time ago... He could not even win the number one slot when he was with the Texans! Now because he wears the orange and blue he has promise? I don't buy it, if he was so promising then why the hell did Orton continue to go to Marshall who according to many reporters on the outs with the team if Gaffney was so promising? There is no guarantee that Denver will trade Marshall and they still have been looking at some of this years better receivers in the draft, why? Could it be because they too feel he is not that great and would do better coming in off the bench?

Yeah because with Wes Welker, Randy Moss, and Ben Watson on those teams, there were soooo many balls to go around! :lol:

I'm not saying that he's great or could be an all-pro but he's a solid player who could be a serviceable #2 guy and a very good #3/4 guy.

He was our second best WR last season and it wasn't really that close IMO. Royal was invisible all year and Stokley wasn't much better. Take away that Bengals catch and his stats were pretty abysmal.


If one game makes a career then there is a whole hell of a lot of All Pros in the league!

:rolleyes: Yeah that's totally what I was basing my argument on.

[TimTebow15MVP]

gaffney is a pretty solid wide out but nothing you have to gamme plan against. He was pretty consistant making some key timely catches all throughout the season but not really a play maker. He is a guy that can step in and do some good things for your offense when called upon. Id like him to remain a back up though. Marshall,Bryant and Royal would be my starting WR core.

[BroncoWave]

He is a scrub, he has played with one of the league's best quarterbacks in Tom Brady for three seasons and still managed to put up nothing but meager numbers. He actually was declared a bust quite some time ago... He could not even win the number one slot when he was with the Texans! Now because he wears the orange and blue he has promise? I don't buy it, if he was so promising then why the hell did Orton continue to go to Marshall who according to many reporters on the outs with the team if Gaffney was so promising? There is no guarantee that Denver will trade Marshall and they still have been looking at some of this years better receivers in the draft, why? Could it be because they too feel he is not that great and would do better coming in off the bench?

Also, this part couldn't be further from the truth. I am just as critical of Broncos players who underperform as anyone. I'm not sugar-coating anything just because he plays for us. I just think he's a better WR than many on here make him out to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Lancane]

Also, this part couldn't be further from the truth. I am just as critical of Broncos players who underperform as anyone. I'm not sugar-coating anything just because he plays for us. I just think he's a better WR than many on here make him out to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

The problem I have is that people feel that he is a solid number one option, even a number two option is a bit questionable. So when I see people saying we should rid ourselves of Marshall and not take a receiver...well IMHO that is pure stupidity. Gaffney at best is a solid third option, he can play in the slot but we have two others that can do that as well. He would best serve the team coming off the bench on third downs in three and four wide sets rather then playing the entire game, that is always where his ceiling was on most squads. Yes, he did well against the Chiefs and he was second best behind Marshall in receiving yardage, but he did not do enough to say "Whoa we have a receiver who is now suddenly a stud and we have no need to improve"...

[topscribe]

He is a scrub, he has played with one of the league's best quarterbacks in Tom Brady for three seasons and still managed to put up nothing but meager numbers. He actually was declared a bust quite some time ago... He could not even win the number one slot when he was with the Texans! Now because he wears the orange and blue he has promise? I don't buy it, if he was so promising then why the hell did Orton continue to go to Marshall who according to many reporters on the outs with the team if Gaffney was so promising? There is no guarantee that Denver will trade Marshall and they still have been looking at some of this years better receivers in the draft, why? Could it be because they too feel he is not that great and would do better coming in off the bench?

I am willing to look at Gaffney's production on the field and judge from there.
When I objectively consider that, I see a WR who is a good one . . . not a great
one, perhaps, but a good one. I did not see one game in which he played last
year where he could be labeled a "scrub."

Yes, he was lightly used when Marshall was active. (Who wouldn't be, short of
Randy Moss or Andre Johnson?) But his games of real production included NE (6)
and Philadelphia (7) . . . two pretty tough defensive teams. And he doubled that
against KC as the #1 receiver in Marshall's absence. In fact, only once did
Marshall exceed Gaffney's 14 receptions that Gaffney collected against KC. That,
of course, would be Marshall's 21 against Indy.

I'm not saying Gaffney is as good as Marshall. Hardly. Few are, IMO. But Gaffney
is far better than you believe he is, IMO.

-----

[WARHORSE]

How about we pray to win a superbowl and stop playing passion police with everyones off field behaviors. I really don't care if he slipped on a happy meal bag.

:coffee:

Last time I checked the owners sign the checks....I just want to cheer my ass off when we score TD's on Sunday and if we have Gaffney starting then I highly doubt anyone will be doing much of any cheering.

:coffee:

:coffee:

:coffee:


Sure.

Thats you.


sa-lurp.....:coffee:





Some of us passion policers have some understanding in that off the field issues effect the football team in positive and negative ways......


:coffee:


...and that immaturity effects the team......you know, like punting the ball in practice and professional behavior like that.......



:coffee:



....and we also understand that we dont write the checks......
:coffee:



.....and that if not for his immaturity, we may have been in the playoffs LAST year........which would have given us a shot at the SUPERBOWL........


:coffee:


.......but we dont give a rip.....


:coffee:



.....and we also understand that IF.......that is IFFFFFF......Brandon Marshall were a little more 'adult' in his decision making?..............the Broncos
wouldnt be having to deal with this crap, and he would be living in a lot nicer home than the one hes living in now............

.....for going on a year now.



:coffee:



Coulda.....woulda..........shoulda.


Get rid of the ME players.

[Italianmobstr7]

I'm not going to quote you War, but seriously? Please enlighten me as to WHO SPECIFICALLY you would rather have than Brandon Marshall that's available in the draft. PLEASE. Get rid of the "ME" players? Hello dude, it's the NFL. They're almost ALL "ME" players. They all play to get paid. So he threw a temper tantrum last year. So what? No one was complaining about him when he was running through the entire Cowboys D last year. Or when he was snagging 20 catches in 1 game against Indy. Get off your high horse and stop judging Marshall by his PAST off field issues. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN WEEK 16 AND WEEK 17. Anyone who brings that up as being Marshall's fault is making an ignorant statement. All we know is that Marshall was hurt and showed up for treatment 20 minutes late. McD thinks that Marshall should have played through the injury. Why would he though? He was about to be a free agent and possibly get a huge pay day. On top of that, he had an injury that was COMPLETELY misdiagnosed that he played with ALL of 2008. So if the guy says he's hurt, and is being precautionary about it after what he went through, I understand it and you should too. Am I saying that he shouldn't play through some pain for a shot at the playoffs? No. But we also don't know how severe the injury was. We have NO idea. Brandon needs to stay in Denver. He's the most dominant player we have, and quite frankly one of the few people on our offense that scares people. He's a VERY rare talent and Denver needs to do whatever they can to hang on to him.

[Northman]

Actually, lets pray that BM can become a responsible adult in the next week, learn to think of himself and his family, but also the interests of the team since they are the ones he wants to pay him a large amount of money for his services and understand that its a business investment for them. Also, to not throw tantrums since he is an adult now, and as well to be a great husband who values his wife, and would never do anything that would bring the police to his residence for any reason whatsoever.


I mean.....since we're praying and all.



:coffee:


:lol:

[Northman]

How about we pray to win a superbowl and stop playing passion police with everyones off field behaviors. I really don't care if he slipped on a happy meal bag.

:coffee:

Last time I checked the owners sign the checks....I just want to cheer my ass off when we score TD's on Sunday and if we have Gaffney starting then I highly doubt anyone will be doing much of any cheering.

:coffee:

:coffee:

:coffee:

As long as we are winning games i could give a flying **** who catches the TD passes. I dont give a **** about style or ego's.

[DenBronx]

As long as we are winning games i could give a flying **** who catches the TD passes. I dont give a **** about style or ego's.

tell that to the head coach. he has the biggest ego of them all.

:listen: it's called "the little man syndrome"

[DenBronx]

Sure.

Thats you.


sa-lurp.....:coffee:





Some of us passion policers have some understanding in that off the field issues effect the football team in positive and negative ways......


:coffee:


...and that immaturity effects the team......you know, like punting the ball in practice and professional behavior like that.......



:coffee:



....and we also understand that we dont write the checks......
:coffee:



.....and that if not for his immaturity, we may have been in the playoffs LAST year........which would have given us a shot at the SUPERBOWL........


:coffee:


.......but we dont give a rip.....


:coffee:



.....and we also understand that IF.......that is IFFFFFF......Brandon Marshall were a little more 'adult' in his decision making?..............the Broncos
wouldnt be having to deal with this crap, and he would be living in a lot nicer home than the one hes living in now............

.....for going on a year now.



:coffee:



Coulda.....woulda..........shoulda.


Get rid of the ME players.


again...i don't give a rats ass if marshall slipped on a happy meal bag. nor do i care if he kicked a yellow cab...

marshall is a top 3 wr right now anyway you look at it. it's not your money...you don't write the checks...his time is do and you somehow find time to b.itch and moan about it.

and no no no no a thousand times no i will not back your theory on why the team is better without him.

[Elevation inc]

i love marshall but it would be hilarious to see the people fretting about trading him eat crow when he has another incident and gets a eight game suspension......and gaffney then has to come in a be a number 1.......something thats being argued agaisnt as we speak....

[SoCalImport]

i love marshall but it would be hilarious to see the people fretting about trading him eat crow when he has another incident and gets a eight game suspension......and gaffney then has to come in a be a number 1.......something thats being argued agaisnt as we speak....

Can't say it would be hilarious.
I've been on the fence about the trade/don't trade thing for months and the idea of a matured Marshall staying a Bronco long term is the best case scenario, BUT it's thoughts like this that make me want to start chewing my fingernails. (another suspension:Cry:)

[Nomad]

Can't say it would be hilarious.
I've been on the fence about the trade/don't trade thing for months and the idea of a matured Marshall staying a Bronco long term is the best case scenario, BUT it's thoughts like this that make me want to start chewing my fingernails. (another suspension:Cry:)

I bounce back and forth as well! As War said, hopefully he has turned a corner and has grown up to be good husband and one day father. And hopefully he'll be agood teammate and not do anything stupid to hurt his team! Other than that, the sun will rise and the BRONCOS will live on so I don't waste my time praying for millionaires and billionaires and their jobs....I just hope for the best!

[Elevation inc]

Can't say it would be hilarious.
I've been on the fence about the trade/don't trade thing for months and the idea of a matured Marshall staying a Bronco long term is the best case scenario, BUT it's thoughts like this that make me want to start chewing my fingernails. (another suspension:Cry:)

losing marshall(THE PLAYER)would suck in any fashion my point about hilarious was the gaffney thing:lol:

[TXBRONC]

Yeah because with Wes Welker, Randy Moss, and Ben Watson on those teams, there were soooo many balls to go around! :lol:

I'm not saying that he's great or could be an all-pro but he's a solid player who could be a serviceable #2 guy and a very good #3/4 guy.

He was our second best WR last season and it wasn't really that close IMO. Royal was invisible all year and Stokley wasn't much better. Take away that Bengals catch and his stats were pretty abysmal.



:rolleyes: Yeah that's totally what I was basing my argument on.

Gaffeny was a Patriot long before Moss and Welker came along. :lol:

[T.K.O.]

tell that to the head coach. he has the biggest ego of them all.

:listen: it's called "the little man syndrome"

looks like there might be another coach who suffers from the same "affliction"

The Eagles didn't want Haynesworth, but that hasn't kept the Redskins from continuing the effort to move him. Jason Reid of the Washington Post reports that the Redskins are attempting to trade Haynesworth, and that a deal could be made before the April 22 draft. Jason La Canfora of NFL.com reports that coach Mike Shanahan's initial meeting with Haynesworth "did not go well," and that Shanahan wants to "break the culture of players being too empowered at Redskins Park." (In this regard, Shanny may want to urge the guy who signs the checks to quit striking up friendships with them.)

[topscribe]

Gaffeny was a Patriot long before Moss and Welker came along. :lol:

Well, not too long before. He went to the Patriots from Houston in 2006, a year
before Moss and Welker joined them. That (2006) was the only nonproductive
year for Gaffney, when he made only 11 receptions . . . I don't know whether
or not he was injured, or what happened.

But in the other years, he was productive, if not spectacular. In his fours years
with Houston, he averaged 43 receptions a year. With NE, after Moss and
Welker came along, in 2007 he gathered in 38 receptions, then in 2008 he had
54 receptions.

So Moss and Welker were there two out of the three years Gaffney was with
the Patriots, and he was productive.

-----

[TXBRONC]

Well, not too long before. He went to the Patriots from Houston in 2006, a year
before Moss and Welker joined them. That (2006) was the only nonproductive
year for Gaffney, when he made only 11 receptions . . . I don't know whether
or not he was injured, or what happened.

But in the other years, he was productive, if not spectacular. In his fours years
with Houston, he averaged 43 receptions a year. With NE, after Moss and
Welker came along, in 2007 he gathered in 38 receptions, then in 2008 he had
54 receptions.

So Moss and Welker were there two out of the three years Gaffney was with
the Patriots, and he was productive.

-----

He still had a year's experience on both Welker and Moss. There was no way beat out Moss however even with a year's experience he couldn't beat out Welker. It's not like Welker went to the Patriots with kind accomplishments that Moss came with. We'll just have to disagree what's productive and what isn't.

[DenBronx]

looks like there might be another coach who suffers from the same "affliction"

The Eagles didn't want Haynesworth, but that hasn't kept the Redskins from continuing the effort to move him. Jason Reid of the Washington Post reports that the Redskins are attempting to trade Haynesworth, and that a deal could be made before the April 22 draft. Jason La Canfora of NFL.com reports that coach Mike Shanahan's initial meeting with Haynesworth "did not go well," and that Shanahan wants to "break the culture of players being too empowered at Redskins Park." (In this regard, Shanny may want to urge the guy who signs the checks to quit striking up friendships with them.)

awww....haynesworth and his guaranteed 21 million refuses to play nose tackle. somebody call the wambulance. :elefant:

[turftoad]

i love marshall but it would be hilarious to see the people fretting about trading him eat crow when he has another incident and gets a eight game suspension......and gaffney then has to come in a be a number 1.......something thats being argued agaisnt as we speak....

If Gaffney turns out to be our #1, we are serious trouble. :tsk:

[topscribe]

He still had a year's experience on both Welker and Moss. There was no way beat out Moss however even with a year's experience he couldn't beat out Welker. It's not like Welker went to the Patriots with kind accomplishments that Moss came with. We'll just have to disagree what's productive and what isn't.

You're not disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with McDaniels & Co. After
all they are the one who brought him to Denver and started him in some games
and trusted him to receive the ball in others. I hardly think they would have
done that, had they considered him nonproductive.

And "productive" does not have to mean HOF caliber of play. It means to
produce. That is what he did. 50+ receptions is producing. I defy you to take
that to any HC and tell him differently . . .

It's kind of ironic, though, that you would point out Welker's production
before he joined the Patriots, after you were quick to tell me that a Bronco's
production matters only as a Bronco, not before he got here. By the same
token, it doesn't matter what Welker did before he went to NE: he became
a top receiver at NE.

P.S. I did make one mistake, however. Gaffney's 54 receptions were with
Denver, instead of NE, as I erroneously said. So his production did go slightly
down after Welker and Moss joined the Pats. So BTB was absolutely right in
his assessment, and Gaffney was indeed productive with Denver.

And Gaffney had a "year's experience on Welker and Moss"? :lol: Gaffney was
a 5th year player in 2007. Welker was a 6th year player and Moss a 10th. But
what difference does that make? Welker had 123 receptions for 1,348 yards.
Who is going to beat him out at that rate? And Moss? Well, Moss is Moss.

-----

[Lonestar]

Have not been on all that much th last few days and have not read much of this thread. But what I have read, leads me to believe that.

While he is a great force on the field the act of getting married is not going be the single most reason for him to instanly mature to the point we need not worry about all the other issuses he has done or potentialy will do to cause a disruption in the next few minutes, hours, days, years.
If he suddenly "got it" then he would have signed his tender, or barring that showed up at OTA's. We all know that he does not have to be signed to particpate.

All it showed me was one more instance of impetiveness and even perfhaps immaturity for not waiting till his planned wedding date in June.

I think we can all agree that they were NOT waiting to share the wedding bed.

We do not have to have a top 5 or for that matter Pro bowl WR to consistently win nor get to the playoffs. If nothing else last year proved the first part of that. Even with BM having his best year, they lost lots of games.

We all know what the problem was,
LOS play.

Nothing more nothing less.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[Lancane]

Well, not too long before. He went to the Patriots from Houston in 2006, a year
before Moss and Welker joined them. That (2006) was the only nonproductive
year for Gaffney, when he made only 11 receptions . . . I don't know whether
or not he was injured, or what happened.

But in the other years, he was productive, if not spectacular. In his fours years
with Houston, he averaged 43 receptions a year. With NE, after Moss and
Welker came along, in 2007 he gathered in 38 receptions, then in 2008 he had
54 receptions.

So Moss and Welker were there two out of the three years Gaffney was with
the Patriots, and he was productive.

-----

His average yardage per season is 475 total yards, his average touchdown ratio is 2.1 per season. That is in an eight year span...I don't call that being very productive. He had only two touchdowns last year, and did nothing jaw shattering as far as his play on the field give except against Kansas City.

[topscribe]

His average yardage per season is 475 total yards, his average touchdown ratio is 2.1 per season. That is in an eight year span...I don't call that being very productive. He had only two touchdowns last year, and did nothing jaw shattering as far as his play on the field give except against Kansas City.

I didn't say there was. I did not represent Gaffney as a candidate for the HOF.
I only said he was productive. McDaniels thought so, so he brought Gaffney to
Denver. After Gaffney's 54 receptions, I hardly think McDaniels was sorry . . .

-----

[Lancane]

I didn't say there was. I did not represent Gaffney as a candidate for the HOF.
I only said he was productive. McDaniels thought so, so he brought Gaffney to
Denver. After Gaffney's 54 receptions, I hardly think McDaniels was sorry . . .

-----

I don't think McDaniels was all that happy with him being the number two, look at the majority of visits we have had thus far; Ford, Gilyard, Shipley, Williams, Bryant, Benn and there is rumors that we will visit with Tate...that's the majority of our allowed visits. I truly think that even if we keep Marshall that we will still draft another receiver.

[TXBRONC]

You're not disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with McDaniels & Co. After
all they are the one who brought him to Denver and started him in some games
and trusted him to receive the ball in others. I hardly think they would have
done that, had they considered him nonproductive.

And "productive" does not have to mean HOF caliber of play. It means to
produce. That is what he did. 50+ receptions is producing. I defy you to take
that to any HC and tell him differently . . .

It's kind of ironic, though, that you would point out Welker's production
before he joined the Patriots, after you were quick to tell me that a Bronco's
production matters only as a Bronco, not before he got here. By the same
token, it doesn't matter what Welker did before he went to NE: he became
a top receiver at NE.

P.S. I did make one mistake, however. Gaffney's 54 receptions were with
Denver, instead of NE, as I erroneously said. So his production did go slightly
down after Welker and Moss joined the Pats. So BTB was absolutely right in
his assessment, and Gaffney was indeed productive with Denver.

-----

I didn't say anywhere that being productive means putting up Hall of Fame numbers.

You missed the point entirely about Gaffney and Welker. Point was Gaffney with more in same system with a great quarterback still couldn't beat out Welker who no experience in that system.

Gaffney would have had typical year for him if wasn't that got to start against a bad secondary. Even so he still didn't come with any touchdowns against very bad secondary.

[topscribe]

I don't think McDaniels was all that happy with him being the number two, look at the majority of visits we have had thus far; Ford, Gilyard, Shipley, Williams, Bryant, Benn and there is rumors that we will visit with Tate...that's the majority of our allowed visits. I truly think that even if we keep Marshall that we will still draft another receiver.

I don't believe McDaniels knows any more than you or I whether Marshall will be
here this year. It would stand to reason, in my mind, that he would be "window
shopping" for receivers at this point . . .

-----

[topscribe]

I didn't say anywhere that being productive means putting up Hall of Fame numbers.

You missed the point entirely about Gaffney and Welker. Point was Gaffney with more in same system with a great quarterback still couldn't beat out Welker who no experience in that system.

Gaffney would have had typical year for him if wasn't that got to start against a bad secondary. Even so he still didn't come with any touchdowns against very bad secondary.

No, I didn't miss any point. You went waaaaaayyyyyy around the point.

Now you tell me: Who is going to beat out a receiver who has gathered in 123
receptions for 1,348 yards? That's just silly, TX.

And your pointing out one game is cherry picking. He also had good games
against NE and Philly, as I have pointed out . . . two good secondaries. Oh,
and the only reason Gaffney did not have a TD in the KC game was because
of pass interference against his defender, if you recall . . .

-----

[Lancane]

I don't believe McDaniels knows any more than you or I whether Marshall will be
here this year. It would stand to reason, in my mind, that he would be "window
shopping" for receivers at this point . . .

-----

When your allowed only so many visits and the majority are not used on Defensive or Offensive Lineman, but Wide Receivers...well then something is up. Add in that only two are considered first round talent prospects? Don't buy it...I still feel will try and fix the line, but I think McDaniels wants weapons, especially when we were horrid in scoring and were overall a mediocre offensive unit.

[topscribe]

When your allowed only so many visits and the majority are not used on Defensive or Offensive Lineman, but Wide Receivers...well then something is up. Add in that only two are considered first round talent prospects? Don't buy it...I still feel will try and fix the line, but I think McDaniels wants weapons, especially when we were horrid in scoring and were overall a mediocre offensive unit.

I agree. That's McDaniels' philosophy: upgrade where he can, especially where
it will most effect the W-L columns. Far as I can see, only four positions are
not upgradeable on the Broncos: Clady, Harris (assuming he's healthy), Champ,
and Dumervil. (Dawkins, too, of course, but this may be his last year.)

I'm saying the Broncos could get by with Gaffney. But "getting by" doesn't get
it with McD (and I'm glad). Get another stud receiver to bookend with Marshall,
put Royal in the slot, and it just could be "Katie-bar-the-door" on offense next
year . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

No, I didn't miss any point. You went waaaaaayyyyyy around the point.

Now you tell me: Who is going to beat out a receiver who has gathered in 123
receptions for 1,348 yards? That's just silly, TX.

-----

Yes you DID miss my point completely.

What's silly is you using Welker's numbers in retrospect to say Gaffney was never going to beat out a receiver that puts up 123 receptions for 1,348 yards. As I said before but apparently you missed it, Welker didn't put up those kind of numbers until went to New England. Gaffney already had a year's worth of experience in that offense and he still could not beat out Welker. So whose being silly, Top?

I'm going to do my best to let this be my last response to you in this thread.

I do fully expect you to reply back with one of your pattened condescending posts when you don't have a better response.

Bye! :wave:

[BroncoWave]

The problem I have is that people feel that he is a solid number one option, even a number two option is a bit questionable. So when I see people saying we should rid ourselves of Marshall and not take a receiver...well IMHO that is pure stupidity. Gaffney at best is a solid third option, he can play in the slot but we have two others that can do that as well. He would best serve the team coming off the bench on third downs in three and four wide sets rather then playing the entire game, that is always where his ceiling was on most squads. Yes, he did well against the Chiefs and he was second best behind Marshall in receiving yardage, but he did not do enough to say "Whoa we have a receiver who is now suddenly a stud and we have no need to improve"...

I never claimed that we should get rid of Marshall, make Gaffney the #1, and not try to improve at WR. In fact, I haven't see anyone claim that. Try not to make things up when debating someone's point.

I am simply saying that he is in no way a scrub and that he could be a decent #2 guy and very good #3. I am also saying that if we were to lose Marshall, it wouldn't be the end of the world because we'd probably draft someone like Bryant and still have other decent WRs in Gaffney and Stokley, and hopefully a resurgent season from Royal.

[topscribe]

Yes you DID miss my point completely.

What's silly is you using Welker's numbers in retrospect to say Gaffney was never going to beat out a receiver that puts up 123 receptions for 1,348 yards. As I said before but apparently you missed it, Welker didn't put up those kind of numbers until went to New England. Gaffney already had a year's worth of experience in that offense and he still could not beat out Welker. So whose being silly, Top?

I'm going to do my best to let this response to you in this thread.

I do fully expect you to reply back with one of your pattened condescending posts when you don't have a better response.

Bye! :wave:

I don't know why you have to turn personal with this, TX.

Anyway, you seem to be saying that, since Gaffney was there a year before
another receiver who would get 123 receptions, he should have beaten out
that receiver who would get 123 receptions. Wow. :ThrowsHandsInAir:

-----

[Ravage!!!]

The mere thought that we would try to 'get by' with a guy like Gaffney, is troublesome. He's a filler. He's not a #2, but maybe a #3.... which is fine. Teams need #3 WRs. But to move him above that on the chart, is a bad sign for our WR corp.

[TXBRONC]

The mere thought that we would try to 'get by' with a guy like Gaffney, is troublesome. He's a filler. He's not a #2, but maybe a #3.... which is fine. Teams need #3 WRs. But to move him above that on the chart, is a bad sign for our WR corp.

Exactly, Gaffney is solid as a 3rd or 4th option and a fill-in starter every once in while but as starter for 16 games I don't think that would work out to well for us.

[Northman]

tell that to the head coach. he has the biggest ego of them all.

:listen: it's called "the little man syndrome"


If your digging down in McD's pants go for it. Im not interested in his little man anything but you can fly the way you want to brother. Im just worried about winning and since all head coaches have egos it wont matter. They are the bosses and its up to the players to get on board with the system and rules in place.

[Northman]

i love marshall but it would be hilarious to see the people fretting about trading him eat crow when he has another incident and gets a eight game suspension......and gaffney then has to come in a be a number 1.......something thats being argued agaisnt as we speak....

Oh, no worries mate. They will find ways to defend him regardless. He could probably commit a crime against someone in their own family and they will still say "but its what he does on the field so i dont care that he beat my sister". :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Oh, no worries mate. They will find ways to defend him regardless. He could probably commit a crime against someone in their own family and they will still say "but its what he does on the field so i dont care that he beat my sister". :lol:

Nah I don't defend his bad behavior but I am curious as to how we replace his production adequately when he's no longer here.

[Northman]

Nah I don't defend his bad behavior but I am curious as to how we replace his production adequately when he's no longer here.


Probably the same way we will when we lost Rod.

[Lonestar]

When your allowed only so many visits and the majority are not used on Defensive or Offensive Lineman, but Wide Receivers...well then something is up. Add in that only two are considered first round talent prospects? Don't buy it...I still feel will try and fix the line, but I think McDaniels wants weapons, especially when we were horrid in scoring and were overall a mediocre offensive unit.

Just perhaps they saw what they needed on college tapes and pro days as well as at the combine and they do not feel they need to bring in every LOS player there is. I suspect they have several already targeted and if they are there then we take them.

WR's are squirrely at best, I do not think I have every seen one that was not a head case of some sort.

Even Eddie MAc was weird in his work ethic. Rod has issues early in his career.

I would say they are trying to figure out who ethereally want in the draft at WR and that means face time with them.

Where as the LOS folks are WYSIWYG.

I suspect your reading way to much into who they are bringing in.

Remember a couple of years ago IIRC you never heard about who they brought in.

[CoachChaz]

Nah I don't defend his bad behavior but I am curious as to how we replace his production adequately when he's no longer here.

His numbers are inflated. Even if he stays...if the offense works the way it should...he wont see 100 receptions again

[TXBRONC]

His numbers are inflated. Even if he stays...if the offense works the way it should...he wont see 100 receptions again

Welker has topped 100 plus reception in the same offense for three straight years.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Welker has topped 100 plus reception in the same offense for three straight years.

yeah in the slot though working on nickel backs for the most part.

[Ravage!!!]

yeah in the slot though working on nickel backs for the most part.

Seems McD got the all to Marshall.

People said the same thing about Marshall after his first 100 catch season. Then they really absolutely stated he woudln't have another after his 2nd. Then, after his third, they are still stating that he''ll probably never have another. Seems when 75% of yoru career, you ahve 100 catches or more, I would bet it would happen again.

[broncobryce]

I love his production on the field, but when the off field shit outweighs or comes close to the production, we have the problems we have.

[dogfish]

Probably the same way we will when we lost Rod.

we can't come up with something better than hoping we get lucky?

[WARHORSE]

Just perhaps they saw what they needed on college tapes and pro days as well as at the combine and they do not feel they need to bring in every LOS player there is. I suspect they have several already targeted and if they are there then we take them.

WR's are squirrely at best, I do not think I have every seen one that was not a head case of some sort.

Even Eddie MAc was weird in his work ethic. Rod has issues early in his career.

I would say they are trying to figure out who ethereally want in the draft at WR and that means face time with them.

Where as the LOS folks are WYSIWYG.

I suspect your reading way to much into who they are bringing in.

Remember a couple of years ago IIRC you never heard about who they brought in.


If anything, I think this means they DONT plan on going WR in the first or second.

Its doing due diligence on WRs who grade out like Shipley, and are probably going on day two late.

Having our homework done on mid round WRs means we plan on taking one or two in the mid to late rounds.



Unless someone unexpectedly drops, I think we get an OLB, an Olineman or Spiller at our 11th pick.........possibly Clausen as well.
jmo

[Lonestar]

If anything, I think this means they DONT plan on going WR in the first or second.

Its doing due diligence on WRs who grade out like Shipley, and are probably going on day two late.

Having our homework done on mid round WRs means we plan on taking one or two in the mid to late rounds.



Unless someone unexpectedly drops, I think we get an OLB, an Olineman or Spiller at our 11th pick.........possibly Clausen as well.
jmo


I guess I was trying to say that BUT did not.

You do not have to fine tooth comb a bonafide first rounders OTHER than mentally. If you can't see the guy has talent from the combine, game tapes, and your scouts watching him the past few years then you IMO have no right to be picking talent.

As you said when you start looking at dingelberries like WR's then you need more "head time" with them to figure out if they can play in your scheme.

I doubt seriously if Josh would draft a Brandon MArshall knowing he is a ME player.

[WARHORSE]

I'm not going to quote you War, but seriously? Please enlighten me as to WHO SPECIFICALLY you would rather have than Brandon Marshall that's available in the draft. PLEASE. Get rid of the "ME" players? Hello dude, it's the NFL. They're almost ALL "ME" players. They all play to get paid. So he threw a temper tantrum last year. So what? No one was complaining about him when he was running through the entire Cowboys D last year. Or when he was snagging 20 catches in 1 game against Indy. Get off your high horse and stop judging Marshall by his PAST off field issues. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN WEEK 16 AND WEEK 17. Anyone who brings that up as being Marshall's fault is making an ignorant statement. All we know is that Marshall was hurt and showed up for treatment 20 minutes late. McD thinks that Marshall should have played through the injury. Why would he though? He was about to be a free agent and possibly get a huge pay day. On top of that, he had an injury that was COMPLETELY misdiagnosed that he played with ALL of 2008. So if the guy says he's hurt, and is being precautionary about it after what he went through, I understand it and you should too. Am I saying that he shouldn't play through some pain for a shot at the playoffs? No. But we also don't know how severe the injury was. We have NO idea. Brandon needs to stay in Denver. He's the most dominant player we have, and quite frankly one of the few people on our offense that scares people. He's a VERY rare talent and Denver needs to do whatever they can to hang on to him.


I dont think you understand. We dont think alike.......and its ok.

If you think me wanting to get rid of BM means I dont know what production he brings to the team, I think youre mistaken.


You just happen to think we should sign him for production, and babysit him in the mean time. That kind of crap kills lockerooms imo,

I dont need to give examples cause you know em all.

I know how dynamic Marshall is, but this is HIS doing. This kid was kicking footballs in practice. Now do you know ANY other NFL player that has done that?

After he said he understood, he turned around and got mad he got called out for plays by Josh in the Philly game, and since he caught a number of passes, felt like it was unfair.................badam!.......all of a sudden he cant practice.

This is called the T.O. syndrome......the Albert Haynesworth syndrome.......the Jay Cutler syndrome..........

NO THANKS!


Id rather spend my time talking about Broncos football than Brandon Marshall.


If Brandon were mature, then I would be for it.

Giving guaranteed money to a player like this is IGNORANT, and I dont write the checks, but I understand how it all effects my Broncos team...


So lets just say we disagree.

I'll take a first round pick for him, and draft Iupati or the likes, and Im fine with it.

Thats me.



If he comes back at tender or under the contract the Broncos agree to.......welcome back.



But I have no problem saying goodbye to Brandon cause Ive seen enough, and heard enough of him.

After another screw up, he'll be telling us all how he learned a valuable lesson..................hellwitdat.

Id rather have a killer Oguard that wants to be here.


:coffee:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Get what we can for him and move on.

[JDL]

I doubt Shanahan wants him, but who knows... sometimes a known is better than an unknown, even if that known occasionally to frequently drove you nuts.

It makes some sense from the standpoint that McNabb is not a highly accurate QB (at least when not on the run) and the only guy they have is S.Moss who I actually like. Still, Marshall would add a different dimension.

Perhaps a deal like this

Washington trades Haynesworth to Indianapolis (out of conference to a team that needs a DT and plays a 4-3) - From Indy's perspective you couldn't get that with that pick. Washington probably gets a conditional future pick on top of that.

Denver gets that 1st rd pick and Chris Cooley HBack (for some odd reason Redskins fans think he is on the outs there) and Scheffler and Marshall sign their tenders and go to Washington. Or just 1st rd for Marshall, but somehow I have to think Shanahan would want Scheffler as a throw in without question and that takes care of that issue.

There will be some creative activity I think though to get Marshall moved. I don't see how he can return.... excellent on-field player who has burned the bridge with not only his coach, but his teammates imo. It is best to pretend it is not a move of necessity but what kind of precedent is it for the rest of the teammates who are sick of him and think he quit on the team to give him a big fat contract for doing that.

[Ravage!!!]

I dont' know why Washington would get rid of Cooley when he is probably ther top offensive weapon.

[TXBRONC]

we can't come up with something better than hoping we get lucky?

For some guys that's all they have to go on. :lol:

[Elevation inc]

If Gaffney turns out to be our #1, we are serious trouble. :tsk:

exactly thats why people should realize just how risky it is to pay marshall right now what he wants rather than get what we can now....1 incident at all to the commish and he is gone for eight games and people are calling him pacman 2.0, there goes half a season, and there was a waste of a contract, with lockout looming next year. and then everyone will be saying what a dumb decision it was to sign him....

[Nomad]

exactly thats why people should realize just how risky it is to pay marshall right now what he wants rather than get what we can now....1 incident at all to the commish and he is gone for eight games and people are calling him pacman 2.0, there goes half a season, and there was a waste of a contract, with lockout looming next year. and then everyone will be saying what a dumb decision it was to sign him....

Or he could be a model citizen/husband/teammate from here on out and become one of the greats to have worh the BRONCOS uniform. (fat chance but sounds good):D

[Elevation inc]

Or he could be a model citizen/husband/teammate from here on out and become one of the greats to have worh the BRONCOS uniform. (fat chance but sounds good):D

i would love that as would most of this board...but his history is his curse plain and simple...sad

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Yeah because with Wes Welker, Randy Moss, and Ben Watson on those teams, there were soooo many balls to go around! :lol:



How about when he was starting alongside Reche Caldwell and still was the #2? He was so "awesome" that the Patriots immediately went out and traded for Moss and Welker that very off season to replace his sorry ass! How about when he was the only thing that even resembled a WR in Houston and was thought so highly of that they immediately drafted Andre Johnson the next year?

Not enough balls to go around, whatever. :tsk:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Probably the same way we will when we lost Rod.

We had Marshall and Walker on the roster then. If Marshall leaves we have Royal and... who? Don't even say Gaffney. :puke:

[WARHORSE]

Maybe we should trade Marshall for Barrett Rudd.

Proven inside LBer who has enormous tackle counts last couple a years, can INT a pass, and sack the QB as well.

He is the same age as BM.


He is prototypical in size for our defense, and can cover, as well as drop the QB.


I would go for that plus a small draft pick, mainly because its alot harder to get a playmaking WR vs a playmaking LBer.


:coffee:

[topscribe]

We had Marshall and Walker on the roster then. If Marshall leaves we have Royal and... who? Don't even say Gaffney. :puke:

I guess. But I might interject here that what's-his-name (in deference to you) did
manage 54 receptions for 732 yards, which nearly equaled the combined total of
the next two receivers, Royal and Scheffler. And he did have the best YPC average
(13.6) of all the receivers with more than 10 receptions, except Stokley, of course . . .

The fact is, he was without question, far and away, the Broncos' #2 receiver.

I know you will consider that as my having made your point, but that is not my
argument. My argument is that what's-his-name has proven to be a pretty
good receiver . . .

-----

[turftoad]

So...... you think we should go into the season with Orton at QB and Gaffney as the #1 wideout?

Boy....... that's gonna scare the dickens out of our opponents. :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

[TXBRONC]

So...... you think we should go into the season with Orton at QB and Gaffney as the #1 wideout?

Boy....... that's gonna scare the dickens out of our opponents. :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

Take out one great game against a very porous secondary and Gaffney has what would be typical season for him. Even with high marks in yards and catches he still only had two touchdowns on the year. That again is typical for Gaffney.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I guess. But I might interject here that what's-his-name (in deference to you) did
manage 54 receptions for 732 yards, which nearly equaled the combined total of
the next two receivers, Royal and Scheffler. And he did have the best YPC average
(13.6) of all the receivers with more than 10 receptions, except Stokley, of course . . .

The fact is, he was without question, far and away, the Broncos' #2 receiver.

I know you will consider that as my having made your point, but that is not my
argument. My argument is that what's-his-name has proven to be a pretty
good receiver . . .

-----

Except that he had 21 of those catches, almost 1/3 of his yardage, and his only two TDs in the last two weeks of the season - one game was against the worst pass defense in the league.

Just like everyone's favorite boy Orton, there's a reason that Gaffney couldn't keep the starting job elsewhere and his previous teams were more than happy to allow him to leave. Having Gaffney as our "#1 threat" means our offense is even worse next year. Bank it.

[TXBRONC]

Except that he had 21 of those catches, almost 1/3 of his yardage, and his only two TDs in the last two weeks of the season - one game was against the worst pass defense in the league.

Just like everyone's favorite boy Orton, there's a reason that Gaffney couldn't keep the starting job elsewhere and his previous teams were more than happy to allow him to leave. Having Gaffney as our "#1 threat" means our offense is even worse next year. Bank it.

In the eight seasons that Gaffney has been in the League only did he manage more than two touchdowns for the year and that was '07.

[roomemp]

How about when he was starting alongside Reche Caldwell and still was the #2? He was so "awesome" that the Patriots immediately went out and traded for Moss and Welker that very off season to replace his sorry ass! How about when he was the only thing that even resembled a WR in Houston and was thought so highly of that they immediately drafted Andre Johnson the next year?

Not enough balls to go around, whatever. :tsk:

I like the way you compared Gaffney to 2 of the top 5 WR's in the league. Thats a great comparision. Fair too :tsk:

[topscribe]

Except that he had 21 of those catches, almost 1/3 of his yardage, and his only two TDs in the last two weeks of the season - one game was against the worst pass defense in the league.

I knew you were going to come back with that one, seeing how it has been
pointed out ad nauseam.

So now, you tell me: outside BMarsh (10) and Stokley (4), which other receiver
had more than 2 TD receptions this last season?

Give up? So did I.


Just like everyone's favorite boy Orton, there's a reason that Gaffney couldn't keep the starting job elsewhere and his previous teams were more than happy to allow him to leave. Having Gaffney as our "#1 threat" means our offense is even worse next year. Bank it.Just like Orton? Tell me, at what stage in the regular season did Orton lose his
starting job? And please don't bring up 2006 and 2007. When he grabbed the
starting job in 2008 - and did not give it up, even with a high ankle sprain - he
showed that they just might have made a mistake in not starting him in those
years.

And what did Belichick say that indicated he was "more than happy" to allow
Gaffney to leave? Would you share that with me? And why, oh why, would
McDaniels sign him here after coaching him there for three years? If they were
so happy to see him leave, why was McDaniels so happy to sign him here?

Of course, going from BMarsh to Gaffney would be a downgrade. But what you
have presented here makes no sense . . .


P.S. To those pointing to Gaffney's past, who gives a shit? He's a Bronco now . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

I like the way you compared Gaffney to 2 of the top 5 WR's in the league. Thats a great comparision. Fair too :tsk:

He didn't make a comparison Emp. What I think he's saying is that after being with Texans and Patriots one year both teams went out upgraded receiving corps. In my opinions goes along saying that neither of those teams saw him as starter.

[roomemp]

He didn't make a comparison Emp. What I think he's saying is that after being with Texans and Patriots one year both teams went out upgraded receiving corps. In my opinions goes along saying that neither of those teams saw him as starter.


But look who they upgraded to .........Andre Johnson and Randy Moss.........I am not even counting Welker....... Thats not a good argument.....Johnson and Moss are top tier elite WR's.

No one ever said that Gaffney was a top tier elite WR. I think he can be a serviceable starter for us if need be......Hell he should have started in place of Royal down the stretch.

[TXBRONC]

But look who they upgraded to .........Andre Johnson and Randy Moss.........I am not even counting Welker....... Thats not a good argument.....Johnson and Moss are top tier elite WR's.

No one ever said that Gaffney was a top tier elite WR. I think he can be a serviceable starter for us......Hell he should have started in place of Royal down the stretch.

Johnson was draft pick who hadn't proven anything. I guess to be fair I believe he started opposite Johnson but still didn't do much for being a number 2 receiver.

Gaffney went to New England in '06 along with Reche Caldwell and couldn't even beat him out.

If by chance Gaffney ends up being a starter for us I hope you're right that serviceable but I'm doubtful that will be the case.

[topscribe]

But look who they upgraded to .........Andre Johnson and Randy Moss.........I am not even counting Welker....... Thats not a good argument.....Johnson and Moss are top tier elite WR's.

No one ever said that Gaffney was a top tier elite WR. I think he can be a serviceable starter for us if need be......Hell he should have started in place of Royal down the stretch.

Well, considering his production was far and away superior to anyone else behind
BMarsh, that he did gather in 54 receptions and had the best YPC of any receiver,
except for Stokley, (including BMarsh) I would say he is very serviceable. And we
can't ignore the fact that Gaffney had good games against both NE and Philly . . .
two pretty good defenses.

-----

[Tempus Fugit]

The Patriots/Broncos offensive system calls for a top flight outside threat and a top slot threat. The second outside receiver is, essentially, the WR3 in the system. People bemoaning Gaffney as the WR3 should settle down and re-think their position.

In 2006, Gaffney was a late signing by the Patriots, which is why he played in only 11 games and had just 6 starts. His role increased as the season went on, and he was the Patriots #1a target in the playoffs, with Caldwell having slipped to #1b. He beat out Caldwell for a spot on the 2007 team, as a matter of fact.

In 2007, the offense was revamped to fit the talents of Moss and Welker, and Stallworth started the season as the team's WR3. By midseason, Gaffney had beaten out Stallworth and taken over the WR3 role. At the end of 2007, Stallworth was not brought back, and Gaffney was the undisputed WR3 for 2008. He's not a great receiver, but he's not a scrub, either. He's a guy who can fill the WR3 role, because he's willing to be the man running the short/intermediate and intermediate/long routes both on the outside and over the middle while knowing that he'll usually be the 3rd read at best if the offense is running as it should.

Why the McDaniels bashers have lashed out about a player who had a good season for the team last year is something for those people to look to themselves about.

[Ravage!!!]

Why the McDaniels bashers have lashed out about a player who had a good season for the team last year is something for those people to look to themselves about.

Uhmm.. why is it the "McDaniels bashers" when people are purely pointing out that Gaffney is NOT a replacement for Marshall... as some (McD worshippers?) here continue to claim.

Perhaps its the "McDaniels worshippers" that continue to propose an absurd option as to have Gaffney be the #1 guy (based purely on a couple good games) that makes others post a "holy crap" response??

How is it, that those that can't see Gaffney as any kind of real VIABLE option as a WR, are now labeled "bashers?" Effing absurd.

No wonder some continue to pile on McD. If you are going to continue to label any kind of viewpoint as "McDaniel Bashers".... then you might as well pile it on.

Also,

Who was the patriot's "Top flight" outside WR when they won 3 Super Bowls? WHo was their "top slot" when they won the Super Bowls? Seems for guys that are "top flight".. they sure disappeared when not with the Patriots. I would guess they don't really have to be "top flight" at all.

[Tempus Fugit]

Uhmm.. why is it the "McDaniels bashers" when people are purely pointing out that Gaffney is NOT a replacement for Marshall... as some (McD worshippers?) here continue to claim.

Perhaps its the "McDaniels worshippers" that continue to propose an absurd option as to have Gaffney be the #1 guy (based purely on a couple good games) that makes others post a "holy crap" response??

How is it, that those that can't see Gaffney as any kind of real VIABLE option as a WR, are now labeled "bashers?" Effing absurd.

Given that Gaffney proved himself as a viable option as a WR last season, the people who can't see him as one this year are clearly not using anything approaching rational thought. There's a difference between saying the guy's not a WR1 and insulting him as any form of a WR.


No wonder some continue to pile on McD. If you are going to continue to label any kind of viewpoint as "McDaniel Bashers".... then you might as well pile it on.

No, they pile on because they're being jerks for no reason other than they got butthurt early on and can't get past it.


Also,

Who was the patriot's "Top flight" outside WR when they won 3 Super Bowls? WHo was their "top slot" when they won the Super Bowls? Seems for guys that are "top flight".. they sure disappeared when not with the Patriots. I would guess they don't really have to be "top flight" at all.

You do realize that the system the Patriots run now is not the same system they were running before, right? I ask that because your question seems to imply that you don't realize that, but I'm sure you wouldn't be talking crap about something you don't know anything about.

Also, just in regards to your comment about Patriots' receivers....

Branch and Givens both got injured after they left the Patriots. Givens got hurt so badly that he only played 8 more games after leaving the Patriots despite being only 25 when he moved on. Branch has continued to play, but has been limited by a knee injury that's never healed to 100%.

[WARHORSE]

So...... you think we should go into the season with Orton at QB and Gaffney as the #1 wideout?

Boy....... that's gonna scare the dickens out of our opponents. :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

Honestly, Gaffney is a solid producer at this time.

His career kind of reminds me of McCaffrey in that it took awhile for him to pan out as a prospect.

I dont think we will go into the season losing BM without adding another WR or two through the draft.

But I also think that not having a receiver like BM will force Orton to focus on reading the defense more, and spreading the ball around. Brandon is an easy target to see and to rely on, especially short. I think that sometimes Kyle just keys in on him a little too much, especially as the year went on.

We have upgraded on D already, and we arent done.

If we get a first for Brandon from someone next year, Im down.


Tell Seattle give up their third this year and a first next year, and adios Brandon.

If we address our offensive interior, I think it will help bring a dominant run game.

If Denver can run the ball close to what the Jets did last year, our team will be greatly changed for the better imo.

We need to run the football.

[CoachChaz]

I cant figure out why a guy's game today is compared to where he was in his first 2 or 3 years. As War pointed out with McCaffrey...is it not possible for a player to grow and improve over time?

I'll never say Gaff is a top receiver, but I think it's ridiculous to say he's as bad as he was in his first few years. As the 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th option last year, he put up some of the best numbers in his career.

[TXBRONC]

I cant figure out why a guy's game today is compared to where he was in his first 2 or 3 years. As War pointed out with McCaffrey...is it not possible for a player to grow and improve over time?

I'll never say Gaff is a top receiver, but I think it's ridiculous to say he's as bad as he was in his first few years. As the 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th option last year, he put up some of the best numbers in his career.

I think there is difference between being given chance early in your career like Gaffney who started, McCaffrey who got to ride the bench.

I'm not saying horrible and should be kicked out of the League. I just don't think his skills translate to being a primary receiver week in and week out.

[CoachChaz]

I think there is difference between being given chance early in your career like Gaffney who started, McCaffrey who got to ride the bench.

I'm not saying horrible and should be kicked out of the League. I just don't think his skills translate to being a primary receiver week in and week out.

No...but a case could be made that Moss is the "primary" receiver in NE...but Welker gets more receptions. If the offense works as a true spread, then a true #1 isnt really a necessity.

[Ziggy]

The Patriots have put up records since Moss arrived. They also haven't won a super bowl since Moss arrived.

[Northman]

The Patriots have put up records since Moss arrived. They also haven't won a super bowl since Moss arrived.


True dat, but they did get there.

[Ravage!!!]

Given that Gaffney proved himself as a viable option as a WR last season, the people who can't see him as one this year are clearly not using anything approaching rational thought. There's a difference between saying the guy's not a WR1 and insulting him as any form of a WR.

:lol: Ohhh.. got it. So you are the one with the rational thought. Anyone that doesn't think like you do, are pure bashers and irrational thinkers. You are the superior, and those that oppose you are inferior in their line of thinking. Got it.


No, they pile on because they're being jerks for no reason other than they got butthurt early on and can't get past it.

Really. Again you are the know-it-all for everyones thought process and reasons of action. You find that anyone that doesn't think and/or believe as you do, MUST be a hater, for there just isn't any logic if/when disagreeing with you. Seems to me, you are 'butthurt' because people are not jumping on the coach bandwagon, or the player you like. You are 'butthurt' because people disagree with you and don't seem to think your the ultimate in logic and the only one to have reasons for their line of thinking. Maybe you are just "butthurt" because you think they are being jerks? I guess anyone that doesn't believe as you do, are jerks and big, mean, bullies??? Maybe you should work on getting past it.


You do realize that the system the Patriots run now is not the same system they were running before, right? I ask that because your question seems to imply that you don't realize that, but I'm sure you wouldn't be talking crap about something you don't know anything about.

You DO realize that this reply has NOTHING to do with the question I asked, right? Because I'm confused as to your reply and am sure you wouldnt' be talking such ridiculous CRAP about systems when the question was asking about WRs on the team. I'm a bit confused as to why you would make that jump, but then, I'm sure you wouldn't be talking your crap if you simply didn't know what you were talking about.


Branch and Givens both got injured after they left the Patriots. Givens got hurt so badly that he only played 8 more games after leaving the Patriots despite being only 25 when he moved on. Branch has continued to play, but has been limited by a knee injury that's never healed to 100%.

Wow... Branch and Givens. So these are the 'top flight' WRs you are talking about that the "system" relies on? Really? Because I could have sworn the Patriots have had better receivers since then, and I know Branch didn't do squat after leaving Brady. But I'm sure you are going to talk that I'm a hater since I don't agree with your 'brilliant' affirmation of my point..... WHAT 'top flight' WRs were on the team when the Patriots won their Super BOwls??? (I hope that question didn't confuse you again so that you start talking about prior systems used by the Patriots).

I think the 'jerks' are those that think Gaffney is a viable option to replace Marshall. I think they are just "butthurt" that Marshall is gone, and can't get past it..... thus laying out ridiculous ideas on how this team has enough depth to match Brandon's production. System or no same system.

I think Most here have said that Gaffney makes a good 3rd WR... jsut hoping we don't have to rely on him as our #1 or #2. I hope that wasn't too "butthurt" for you.. .but Im sure you'll find that to be an irrational thought, since it doesn't agree with your superior line of thinking.

[FanInAZ]

I'll also, for the beauty queen addition, pray for world peace too :D. High Five!

:D Just check your pics in your profile, you don't need to rehearse your victory speech :D

[Buff]

Yes, please God wake up our organization so they can see the light and give "The Beast" a new contract. I also ask that he will always bleed orange and blue and remain a Bronco forever and ever and ever.

Amen!

:puke:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

There is a reason the Steelers only got a 5th for Holmes...and BM is in the same boat. Goodell is scaring folks off of the troublemakers. He is too suspension happy to make BM as valuable as his talent indicates he should be. He needs to go.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't believe that ofr a moment...... it was an over-reaction from the Rooneys. Its not a coincidence that this happened within 24 hours of finding Holmes 4 game suspension, after Roth was just accused of his second sexual assault. They didn't do much marketing for Holmes. They didnt' give it much time to get better offers. They didn't do the best they could and only "got" a 5th rounder. They dumped him as fast as they could..... so that no one knew it was happening, and it was done before it was started.

This had to do with the Steelers trying to make SOME kind of message to the team and to the fans.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't believe that ofr a moment...... it was an over-reaction from the Rooneys. Its not a coincidence that this happened within 24 hours of finding Holmes 4 game suspension, after Roth was just accused of his second sexual assault. They didn't do much marketing for Holmes. They didnt' give it much time to get better offers. They didn't do the best they could and only "got" a 5th rounder. They dumped him as fast as they could..... for some odd reason.

This had to do with the Steelers trying to make SOME kind of message to the team and to the fans.

I believe he was gone regardless of Big Ben's situation. Their was tension w/ last week's allegations alone. Then comes the suspension? He was gone regardless. Pitt has done it for decades.

[Ravage!!!]

I believe he was gone regardless of Big Ben's situation. Their was tension w/ last week's allegations alone. Then comes the suspension? He was gone regardless. Pitt has done it for decades.

well... i don't think so.

I think that when the news came down that Roth would NOT be charged, and Holmes was getting the 4 game suspension...the Steelers made their decision. Obviously easier to get rid of a WR than a QB. I think they were going to choose between the two, because this was a media nightmare for the Steelers.

I think this very much had a direct link to Rothlesburger's charges.

[Nomad]

I believe he was gone regardless of Big Ben's situation. Their was tension w/ last week's allegations alone. Then comes the suspension? He was gone regardless. Pitt has done it for decades.

I believe you're right!!

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10102/1049772-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yeah, there has been too much buzz around these parts lately for me to believe he ever had any chance of being a Steeler in 2010.

[Lonestar]

The beast is just that either on the field or off.

With BM you never know for sure if he will meet a policeman prior to games day.

:laugh:

Once he has proven he can control the NON field issuses then we can talk.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[broncobryce]

I still say he goes to Seattle somehow

[Lonestar]

As for holmes and rothlesberger.

What ever rooney wants to do is their perogative.

They have an image they wish to project and I'm glad they have made the moves they have for the sake of the TEAM.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[TXBRONC]

No...but a case could be made that Moss is the "primary" receiver in NE...but Welker gets more receptions. If the offense works as a true spread, then a true #1 isnt really a necessity.

True Welker gets more receptions than Moss but I don't anyone could deny that Welker reaps the benefit of having Moss on the other side.

The year before Welker and Moss showed up the Patriots went to all the way to the AFCCG with inferior wide receivers. Even though they were one game away from the Super Bowl they still went out and brought in Moss and Welker. We'll never know this for certain but my guess is that Belichick realized he needed to upgrade his wide receivers if he was ever going make another Super Bowl run.

They won three Super Bowls without a true number one receiver because one they have an elite quarterback behind center and two the defense was younger in those years as well.

[Bosco]

look for Marshall trade talks to heat up within the next 2 weeks. Here's to hoping.

[Bosco]

The Patriots/Broncos offensive system calls for a top flight outside threat and a top slot threat. The second outside receiver is, essentially, the WR3 in the system. People bemoaning Gaffney as the WR3 should settle down and re-think their position.

In 2006, Gaffney was a late signing by the Patriots, which is why he played in only 11 games and had just 6 starts. His role increased as the season went on, and he was the Patriots #1a target in the playoffs, with Caldwell having slipped to #1b. He beat out Caldwell for a spot on the 2007 team, as a matter of fact.

In 2007, the offense was revamped to fit the talents of Moss and Welker, and Stallworth started the season as the team's WR3. By midseason, Gaffney had beaten out Stallworth and taken over the WR3 role. At the end of 2007, Stallworth was not brought back, and Gaffney was the undisputed WR3 for 2008. He's not a great receiver, but he's not a scrub, either. He's a guy who can fill the WR3 role, because he's willing to be the man running the short/intermediate and intermediate/long routes both on the outside and over the middle while knowing that he'll usually be the 3rd read at best if the offense is running as it should.

Why the McDaniels bashers have lashed out about a player who had a good season for the team last year is something for those people to look to themselves about.

Excellent post. It also highlights the problems I talked about in previous threads such as forcing Royal to play the X receiver position (what Moss plays) due to his deep speed when he needs to be at the Z spot (Welker's role).

This is another reason why I'd like to see Marshall shipped out of town. We can then focus our offense on the X and Z receivers while Gaffney/Stokley handle the Y receiver spot.