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Lonestar
04-01-2010, 01:35 PM
Woody's Mailbag: Are the Broncos constructed for Super Bowls?
And Johnathan in Grand Junction wants everybody off Brandon Marshall's back
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
POSTED: 04/01/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT
UPDATED: 04/01/2010 10:24:07 AM MDT


Woody... How do you like McDaniel's ability to construct a football team? It seems he has a good grasp on how to build a team, despite what the critics say. How long do you think it will take for the Broncos to win another Super Bowl? How many players are they away from becoming Super Bowl caliber?
--Francisco, Avondale, Arizona

Francisco: I guess I am one of those critics. A fabled executive in the league once told me that in order to have a Super Bowl winner, you need a Pro Bowl-caliber player at every position.

Of the 22 spots on offense and defense, the Broncos have, I would guess, four Pro Bowl-caliber players on offense (if you count Brandon Marshall, and who's counting?) and five on defense, so they're a bit short.

The four on offense, to give them the benefit of the doubt, big benefit, are: Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Knowshown Moreno and Marshall. Who else? You tell me. A couple of other offensive linemen are possibilities, but you can't say center, because the Broncos not only don't have a Pro Bowl contender, they don't even have a starting center. Maybe Maurkice Pouncey, if they draft him, could be in that role in the future.

On defense: Champ, Elvis, Brian Dawkins, D.J. Williams and Jamal Williams. Future contenders could be Jarvis Green, Justin Bannan and, I suppose, Robert Ayers, and the Broncos have quality safeties.

Oddly enough, when the NFL's all-decade team came out, three Broncos were on it. None of their own homegrown, though. Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey and, yes, their newest player -- Jamal Williams. But all three are on the downsides of their careers and certainly won't be on this all-decade team.

I would think the Broncos will win another Super Bowl when and if they get a great quarterback. That's not their current starter. Maybe Quinn is the answer. Or maybe he's an answer like Allen Iverson was "The Answer." A.I. wasn't the answer in Denver. In the Broncos' defense, which should get them into the playoffs next season, although the schedule is tougher.
So, to be "The Answer" to your question, they are about a half-dozen players away - QB, receiver, center, tight end, defensive end, linebacker.

Woody, first off I am totally on board with the Broncos trading away Marshall because I don't like to see the T.O.-style cancerous players in our clubhouse. What I don't like is hearing the Broncos are leaning toward replacing him with another cancerous player in Dez Bryant. The guy needed a babysitter at Oklahoma State just to make it to practices and games. What in the world is going on?
--Greg, Littleton

Greg: Just to be clear, the Broncos have never once mentioned that Dez Bryant is on their board anywhere. That's coming from mock drafters who don't know any more than you do, and people like me. But people like me won't mention him again. I'm off Bryant. I didn't like the way he handled his Pro Day, didn't even show up with cleats, and how he hasn't helped himself leading up to the draft, and ran a slow 40. And the more I read of his background, I agree with you. So they've got to find another wide receiver, or three, somewhere. I'll get back to you, but I'm not a Bryant or Brandon lover now.

Woody... In what world is Dez Bryant atop the draft board for the Broncos? In my simple opinion I see Dez as B. Marsh 2.0. Why would they want to swap one troubled WR for another? We need young defenders with high upside. If Rolando McClain is still on the board and the Broncos do not select him. I will be baffled.
--Tim, Orange County, Calif.

Tim: See previous answer. I think McClain would be a great pickup, or, as I said earlier, Pouncey. I had the nose tackle from Tennessee, but they're full up for the present there now. A defensive end, a linebacker or an offensive lineman - see, none of us seem to like Dez.

Why do you continue to bash Brandon Marshall?

The beast is still a human like you, and anyone, for that matter. So on the premise of being human we are subject to fault in the learning process of trial and error. Can you remember what you were like at his age? If I saw anything this last season, it was that he not only performed when there didn't appear to be any other offense on the field, but he is maturing as he is getting older.
--Johnathan Wirth, Grand Junction

Johnathan: I'm through bashing Brandon. I have praised him as a player before, but you forget that. Unfortunately, he is a person. After I wrote what I did in the mailbag last week, his PR person immediately sent out a release to everyone but me, basically saying he'd love to play for the Broncos. I wish I had a PR person to write my mailbag. Of course, Brandon didn't love to play for the Broncos before last season or in the last game last season.

Do I remember what it was like to be his age? Yes. I was making $225 a week working as a columnist for The Memphis Commerical Appeal. I didn't like my new boss, but I kept on doing my job and kept my mouth shut until another job came along -- and several offers did come along. I didn't kick the typewriter across the room. I didn't demand to be traded to another newspaper. I didn't demand to make $10 million-plus dollars a year, although I was very good at my job.

My father was very ill and about to die, but I kept doing my job and dealing with my personal life in the best way I could. I didn't get arrested once. Police were never called to my house. My girlfriend didn't claim I abused her, and I didn't get into domestic abuses on a regular basis. I didn't claim I got into wrestling matches with wrestlers and slip on a McDonald's bag and put my hand through a TV set. I didn't go to a night club and get into arguments with gang members, and one of my co-workers and good friends was not murdered in the aftermath. I didn't have to testify in court. I wasn't suspended from my job.

At 25, despite a pretty poor upbringing, sleeping in a kitchen with my parents in my aunt and uncle's house, and living in a government housing project when my dad was making about $10 a week, I was a pretty mature guy. You say Brandon is maturing? Based on what events?

Woody, I understand the concern over Brandon Marshall, but tell me why everyone is ready to get rid of him when more than likely you're going to pick up another receiver with some sort of problems anyway!? It seems to me like the quality receivers aren't good quality people. The good guys are usually average-at-best receivers. Why is that? Players are coming out of college ball a lot more immature than ever before!
--Brian, Shreveport, La.

Brian: Eddie Royal is one of the real quality people in the NFL. He seems to be able to stay out of trouble, and hasn't complained publicly that he didn't get the ball enough last year (when he didn't, as we all know). And I can tell you that he did many acts of charity for people last year that got no attention.

Brandon Stokley is an all-time great guy, family man, quality person who manages to stay out of trouble and make a game-winning catch. The Broncos' other wide receivers act like standup people. There are a hundred receivers in the league who don't get into trouble, make catches and are good in the community. The Broncos have had a ton of them over the years.

For every bad egg, there are 11 in the dozen that are good. So don't tell me the Broncos have to have rotten eggs at wide receiver.

Hey, Woody, the NFL commish was able to pull an end-around on this new OT rule. How about them doing the same for the CBA? It seems like the NFL can do whatever it wants (i.e., the Jets and Giants coin toss). A little dirty, I think.
--Milt Herrington, Roswell N.M.

Milt: There won't be a strike. The commissioner is strong enough to prevent one, and the players' union is weak enough that it will accept a compromise.

Woody, seeing how the Giants are having problems with Osi Umenyiora and are in need of a WR, and we are in need of all the D help we can get, why not trade Marshall for Umenyiora and switch first-round picks (our 11th for the Giants' 15th)? We get a great DE and a cheaper first-round pick.
--Brandin, Wheeling, W.V.

Brandin: Good spelling of the name. You should be a general manager. But you're not, and that trade won't happen. The Broncos will never get Umenyiora for Marshall. What they'll get is a second-round choice and a conditional pick sometime before the draft. And they'll draft a player whose name they can spell.

Woody, don't you find it interesting that Jim Kelly was so beloved in Buffalo, while Philly fans seem to always be ready to get rid of Donovan McNabb? They have eerily similar career statistics. Then again, how many Denver fans were ready to give up on John Elway after his first few years?
--Don, South Carolina

Don: Kelly, I think, got the Bills to four Super Bowls. Granted, they were blown out in two, but should have won one, except for a choking kicker. And that's Buffalo, not Philly, where they want to get rid of everybody every year. The Philadelphia fans didn't like Chamberlain or Dr. J or Iverson or any player on the Phillies until they won a World Series, and they didn't like the Flyers even when the Broad Street Bullies won championships, and I'm surprised they haven't traded the Philly cheesesteak for a grilled cheese sandwich. Donovan McNabb has been a near-Hall of Famer for the Eagles, but then he has never won a Super Bowl or gotten back to a second one.

There were stupid people in Denver who wanted to replace John Elway. Dan Reeves was stupid for a while. He wanted to trade Elway. Calmer minds, mine among them, prevailed, and Elway went to five -- count 'em -- five Super Bowls, and won two at the end. It was worth waiting for. If the Raiders get McNabb, they'll win the division next year with that defense and those running backs and McNabb doing the vertical passing game.

Woody, what happens if the restricted free agents (Marshall, Scheffler and less likely Dumervil) do not sign their tenders and are not traded?
--Jason, Connecticut

Jason: They will be traded. If they don't sign, they sit, as they did in the last Broncos game.

Woody, regarding your question of when a situational football player will be inducted into Canton, do you know any really old baseball writers (or younger MLB historians)? Was there the same hue and cry about newfangled "relief pitchers" and "designated hitters" back in the day when those innovations first occurred? Looking back at history may tell us about the future.
--Jeff, Colorado Springs

Jeff: Yes, there was, and they're finally getting over it. As you might recall, a famous designated hitter for the Boston Red Sox didn't get in for forever, and Goose Gossage, a "closer," didn't get in for forever. But those old-time baseball writers are dying, or their newspapers are going out of business, and the young people like me are taking over and correcting the wrongs.

Woodman, you are not old, you are wise. Could you give us some "man on the scene" insights as to how Todd Helton and Jason Giambi guide, instruct and mentor the younger Rockies?
--Greg Phillips, Longmont

Greg: I just got back from my 1,000th spring training, and I am old. Long before the MLB did 30 camps in 20 days, I did, in the early 1990s, every training camp in baseball, from Florida to Palm Springs (Angels) to Indians (Tucson) to Phoenix. Lost a good girlfriend, and a dog, because I was gone so long. I sure did miss the dog.

Now, what was the question? Helton and Giambi are great in the clubhouse for the younger players, just as the Big Cat, Andres Galarraga, was great in the clubhouse for the Latino players and every other player. Helton remains a quiet force, while Giambi has more of a bubbly, outgoing personality. I have noticed over the years that Todd has become more open with the other players. He tended to keep to himself for a long time. They talk to the younger players, making them feel more at ease. They tutor the young players in batting and fielding. They talk to them about getting through batting slumps and how to handle the pressure and grind of a long season.

I know that Carlos Gonzalez and Dexter Fowler both have been befriended by Helton, and I think they've become more comfortable in the clubhouse and in the dugout and on the field with guidance from Helton. Giambi gives the Rockies that championship presence. You don't play for the Yankees for years and not have an understanding of what the game's all about, and he shares that with everybody else. He has loaned his thong underwear he used to get through a slump.

When I was in New York for three years and would hang in the Yankees' clubhouse, I could feel that team's aura, even if they didn't win a championship for so long. Jeter and Rivera were idolized by the younger players, but they were regular guys and always spent time with the subs and the rookies and made them feel special, and I see that same sort of relationship happening with the Rockies. When they went to the World Series in 2007, it was a clubhouse of deer staring into searchlights. No more. And Helton and Giambi are helping with that process. And Tulo and Barmes and Spilborghs and even Iannetta have gotten into taking on a leadership role that was missing when Holliday left.

I'll tell you something specific about Helton and Giambi. They'll ask a young guy to go to dinner with them. Big deal. I remember when Jim Murray, one of the greatest columnists ever, and Blackie Sherrod, the best there ever was in Dallas, told me to tag along. That was a great moment, and it inspired me to be more like them. I won't ever be a great columnist, but I got so much out of hanging around the veterans.

And the young Rockies may never be great, but they're better because Helton and Giambi are reaching out to them in the batting cage, running in the outfield, going and having a hamburger.

'Sup Woody, I just got done watching the Nuggets vs. the Magic & Zebras (refs). Melo went to the rim often and had plenty of contact, and yet only got his first free throws with four minutes to go and ended up with four total. The whole team had 11. Chauncey obviously got fouled on his last drive, right in front of the baseline judge, and sure enough he doesn't make the call. I am sure C.B. is going to get fined for what he did afterward, but I am glad he did, because he's a grown man and doesn't deserve to be disrespected by another man like that. Why does there seem to, every so often (too often), be such a disparity in referee calls when the Nuggets play a marquee team? And would/could the Nuggets send tape, such as the David Lee incident, to the league office as evidence?
--Dinu M., Boulder

Dinu: The Nuggets, especially Carmelo and Chauncey, shoot more free throws than practically every other team in the league. Your complaint is the same one heard in every other city. You should have been around the Mavericks during the playoff series with the Nuggets. They complained and whined, and every talk show in the city said the league was favoring Denver. I go on radio talk shows in every other NBA city on a regular basis, and I hear the same complaints from fans in those cities.

You are blinded by your love for the Nuggets. I've been around the game for 40 years, and I've heard it for 40 years. I just wish the Nuggets' announcers would get over it. They lead the parade. It's almost as if the Nuggets never make a foul and get fouled on every trip. That's a disservice to Nuggets fans who believe it's true.

The Nuggets don't help themselves. I've never seen a team complain about every call. J.R. Smith has never committed a foul. Nene, either. Hello, guys. Referees make bad calls both ways every game. It evens out, I promise you. I've been friends with probably 25 referees, and used to go out eating with them after games. There are bad referees. There are incompetent referees. There are referees who hold grudges. There's a referee who's in jail for throwing games.

But most all of them are honest men who honestly don't care who wins games. They just call the games as fairly as they can. I can assure you nobody is trying to protect the New York Knicks or David Lee. That's one of the very worst teams in the world. But, yet, Denver announcers would have you believe the refs are trying to keep David Lee in the game and trying to get him into the Hall of Fame. Give it a break.

Hey Woody -- Who would you rather have as the Broncos QB, Cutler or Quinn?
--Ray, Longmont

Ray: Elway.

Then Cutler.

Woody Paige first joined The Denver Post in 1981 as a sports columnist. Drop a question into Woody's Mailbag, or visit The Denver Post's Sports Page.

PRIN

Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14795880?source=rsssimplepiebroncos#ixzz0jsCVJD Kc

Northman
04-01-2010, 02:57 PM
Why do you continue to bash Brandon Marshall?

The beast is still a human like you, and anyone, for that matter. So on the premise of being human we are subject to fault in the learning process of trial and error. Can you remember what you were like at his age? If I saw anything this last season, it was that he not only performed when there didn't appear to be any other offense on the field, but he is maturing as he is getting older.
--Johnathan Wirth, Grand Junction

Johnathan: I'm through bashing Brandon. I have praised him as a player before, but you forget that. Unfortunately, he is a person. After I wrote what I did in the mailbag last week, his PR person immediately sent out a release to everyone but me, basically saying he'd love to play for the Broncos. I wish I had a PR person to write my mailbag. Of course, Brandon didn't love to play for the Broncos before last season or in the last game last season.

Do I remember what it was like to be his age? Yes. I was making $225 a week working as a columnist for The Memphis Commerical Appeal. I didn't like my new boss, but I kept on doing my job and kept my mouth shut until another job came along -- and several offers did come along. I didn't kick the typewriter across the room. I didn't demand to be traded to another newspaper. I didn't demand to make $10 million-plus dollars a year, although I was very good at my job.

My father was very ill and about to die, but I kept doing my job and dealing with my personal life in the best way I could. I didn't get arrested once. Police were never called to my house. My girlfriend didn't claim I abused her, and I didn't get into domestic abuses on a regular basis. I didn't claim I got into wrestling matches with wrestlers and slip on a McDonald's bag and put my hand through a TV set. I didn't go to a night club and get into arguments with gang members, and one of my co-workers and good friends was not murdered in the aftermath. I didn't have to testify in court. I wasn't suspended from my job.

At 25, despite a pretty poor upbringing, sleeping in a kitchen with my parents in my aunt and uncle's house, and living in a government housing project when my dad was making about $10 a week, I was a pretty mature guy. You say Brandon is maturing? Based on what events?

Woody, I understand the concern over Brandon Marshall, but tell me why everyone is ready to get rid of him when more than likely you're going to pick up another receiver with some sort of problems anyway!? It seems to me like the quality receivers aren't good quality people. The good guys are usually average-at-best receivers. Why is that? Players are coming out of college ball a lot more immature than ever before!
--Brian, Shreveport, La.

Brian: Eddie Royal is one of the real quality people in the NFL. He seems to be able to stay out of trouble, and hasn't complained publicly that he didn't get the ball enough last year (when he didn't, as we all know). And I can tell you that he did many acts of charity for people last year that got no attention.

Brandon Stokley is an all-time great guy, family man, quality person who manages to stay out of trouble and make a game-winning catch. The Broncos' other wide receivers act like standup people. There are a hundred receivers in the league who don't get into trouble, make catches and are good in the community. The Broncos have had a ton of them over the years.

For every bad egg, there are 11 in the dozen that are good. So don't tell me the Broncos have to have rotten eggs at wide receiver.


Spot on.

dogfish
04-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Are the Broncos constructed for Super Bowls?

:rofl:


anyone who has to ask woody dumbshit paige this question clearly just started following the broncos last week. . . .

Broncolingus
04-01-2010, 07:24 PM
Why do you continue to bash Brandon Marshall?

The beast is still a human like you, and anyone, for that matter. So on the premise of being human we are subject to fault in the learning process of trial and error. Can you remember what you were like at his age? If I saw anything this last season, it was that he not only performed when there didn't appear to be any other offense on the field, but he is maturing as he is getting older.
--Johnathan Wirth, Grand Junction

Hey, Johnathan...

http://journeyamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/idiot.jpg

TimTebow15MVP
04-03-2010, 01:15 AM
To be a SB caliber team you have to have a pro bowler at every position basically? ROFLMAO if that isnt the biggest piece of bullshit of a statement that i ever heard!

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
04-03-2010, 02:12 AM
To be a SB caliber team you have to have a pro bowler at every position basically? ROFLMAO if that isnt the biggest piece of bullshit of a statement that i ever heard!
How many accounts are you going to make?

TimTebow15MVP
04-03-2010, 02:25 AM
How many accounts are you going to make?

I really dont know what your talking about, I havent had an account on this site in years.

Shazam!
04-03-2010, 02:27 AM
I do agree that the statement is bullshit. When Denver was Super they had about 9 players go to the Pro Bowl.

I really dont take what these commentators say seriously. Their opinions are no different than other people's 9 out of 10 times because they're spectators... JUST LIKE US. Schlereth is one of the few I take seriously with what he says.

FanInAZ
04-03-2010, 04:59 AM
To be a SB caliber team you have to have a pro bowler at every position basically?

Before I dispute Woody's statement, I just want to clarify what he actually said.


A fabled executive in the league once told me that in order to have a Super Bowl winner, you need a Pro Bowl-caliber player at every position.

Woody didn't say that you needed to have a team that sends 22 player to the Pro-Bowl, something that no team has ever done. This years winner, the Saints, only had 7 selected: Drew Brees, Jon Vilma, Darren Sharper, Jahri Evans, Jonathan Goodwin, Roman Harper, and Jonathan Stinchcomb. Their opponent, the Colts, like wise only had 7: Peyton Manning, Antoine Bethea, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Jeff Saturday and Reggie Wayne. When he said "Pro Bowl-caliber," he was meaning that you need to have 22 player who are good enough to make it to the Pro Bowl. There are players very year that had good enough season to make the it, but someone else at their position gets more votes. Some of the players that made it in in 08, but not in 09, still have enough talent to make it in 10.

As far as the accuracy of his statement, name one RB on the Saints that is Pro Bowl-caliber. Pierre Thomas, maybe if he can get a feature back's workload. Reggie Bush, I don't consider him a bust, but he's not come close to living up to the his pre-draft hype. Mike Bell, only if he goes to Washington and runs for Shanny. Then again, Shanny couldn't make him a Pro Bowler the 1st time around. Not one of their top 3 RBs have proven to me that they have the talent to ever be considered for a Pro Bowl. That's just 1 of the 15 positions that they didn't have a player voted to the Pro Bowl this year.

If you look at teams that do win SBs, I'd imagine that you will usually find that at least a 1/3 of their players are Pro Bowlers. The rest are good enough to consistently make solid contributions through out the season and can step up and make big plays when a game is on the line. So, to answer the original question you must assess whether or not the Broncos have a team like I just described. Right now, I don't see it. However, we haven't even had the draft and training camp is still about 4 months away. That's why I believe that its way too early to even be asking this question.

TimTebow15MVP
04-03-2010, 05:09 AM
yup at the end of the day the statement was bogus. You do not need 22 pro bowl caliber players on a SB team.

Dean
04-03-2010, 08:57 AM
I think that the thread is focusing on what IMO was an incorrect statement and overlooking the thread topic.

Are the Broncos currently built to contend for a Super Bowl? I disagree that you need a probowl calibre player at each position but it does require a team with minimal weaknesses. Personally, I don't see our offensive talent level as being high enough this year to get us there. The defense with the addition of our new D-line has taken a step forward if our aging secondary can continue to perform at a high level like they did last year.

There are still questions to be answered that can help or retard our improvement. Will we deal B-Marsh away? What will the draft hold? Is our new D-coordinator capable? Will the offense open up or will we continue with dink and dunk combined with a 38% (I think that's right?) third down conversion rate?

:coffee:Like every year there is plenty of room for optimism and pessimism before the first kick-off.

Ravage!!!
04-03-2010, 11:08 AM
Not to mention, the person that as quoted could have meant a PB at each position, not literally each SPOT on the team. 1 pro-bowl WR. Thats a position, but one that has several players. OL. You don't need PB players at every slot, but having a pro-bowler, and pro-bowl caliber type players certainly helps. CB. Do I need 2 PB corners? Do I separate corners and safties? Do I need a PB at every defensive back spot on the field, No.. but having one PB DB could absolutely be needed. LBs, DL.. on and on. Most importantly, the QB. One QB, the most important to have a player that is PB caliber.

So how many pro-bowlers does that leave and how many weaknesses?

As Dean said.... the statement doesn't need to be taken literally.... but means you just can't have a major weakness.

Broncolingus
04-03-2010, 12:07 PM
...If I saw anything this last season, it was that he not only performed when there didn't appear to be any other offense on the field, but he is maturing as he is getting older.
--Johnathan Wirth, Grand Junction


Once again, for Mr. Wirth...

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff139/flamingfuzzy/LogicFAIL.jpg

Ravage!!!
04-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Once again, for Mr. Wirth...

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff139/flamingfuzzy/LogicFAIL.jpg

dude.. I don't know if he's really doing it wrong. Looks to me like the boy just wants .... foreplay

Broncolingus
04-03-2010, 12:58 PM
dude.. I don't know if he's really doing it wrong. Looks to me like the boy just wants .... foreplay

I'm with ya, Rav...

I guess if you can have doggy-style you can have 'doggy-head.'