NFL's problem: Yards up, but scoring down

[Lonestar]

NFL's problem: Yards up, but scoring down
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
POSTED: 03/26/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT



ORLANDO, Fla. — Pay attention to the flow, and disruptions, of a typical NFL game and it seems the league has unintentionally divided the field.

The action between the 20s is swift, furious, electrifying. With the league adopting rules that allow offensive linemen to grab and to prevent cornerbacks from touching, the terrain is easily navigated. A quick pass to the side, a slant along the hash marks, a handoff for balance sake, and zip, zap, cheer, the ball is inside the opponents' 20.

Once there, the field becomes so different, it has its own name: the red zone. It's here that the game often stutters and even stops. Bam, thud, boo, and here comes the kicker.

In 2009, the NFL set a record with 670.3 yards in total offense a game, up 2.4 percent from 2008. Yet, for the first time since 2005, scoring declined, by 1.13 points a game and 2.7 percent from the previous season.
Welcome to the NFL's Miller Lite era — more yards, less scoring. The league, ever-mindful of enhancing the entertainment aspect of its game, has yet to find an answer for the red zone.

"There might be a day when they even eliminate the zone defense when you're down there," defensive-minded Carolina coach John Fox said. "I hope I'm not here for it. They did in the NBA."

Indeed, the NBA lane became so crowded with taller and wider bodies, the zone defense was disallowed for years. In the NFL, moving the ball up and down the field is easier than ever before. But for many clubs, those final 19 yards can seem like the difference between country and city.

"I think it pertains more to what's happening outside the red zone," said Mike Shanahan, the former Broncos and newly minted Washington Redskins head coach. "I think the red-zone defense has stayed pretty consistent. It's always been tough to score in the red zone.

"What's different is teams are finding different ways to move the ball between the 20s. They're a little bit more open, a little more spread out. People are not necessarily believing in the running game like they used to. It used to be a philosophy that if you didn't have a balanced attack, you couldn't make it to the playoffs."

In 2009, the teams that ranked second, third and fourth in rushing — Tennessee, Carolina and Miami — failed to reach the postseason, while the two worst rushing teams, Indianapolis and San Diego, combined for a 27-5 record.

This is not Jim Brown's NFL anymore. Passing is clearly the way teams are moving into scoring position. Completing passes to the end zone, however, is almost easier from outside the 20.

The ultimate between-the- 20s team was the 2008 Broncos, which not so coincidentally became the last of Shanahan's 14 seasons as Denver's head coach. That year, with Jay Cutler at quarterback, the Broncos ranked second in total offense but 16th in scoring.

It's the first time in history a team ranked in the top two in yards failed to rank in the top 15 in scoring. Not that the 2008 Broncos don't have plenty of company with their red-zone misery. That same year, the Houston Texans were third in yards and 17th in scoring.

"I think red-zone defense has reached a new level," said Texans coach Gary Kubiak, Shanahan's longtime offensive coordinator in Denver. "For me, as an offensive guy studying what people are doing in the red zone, defending the goal line, I think it's become excellent."

Specifically, Kubiak said, the red-zone innovations are in coverages. For the longest time, there were three types of red-zone defenses: defensive backs splitting into four zones; the two safeties playing zone and the cornerbacks playing man; and the all-out blitz.

"Now, some people will double and bracket receivers," Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said. "So there's probably four main concepts you'll see."

A red-zone defense has even been known to have its nose tackle, or at least a player lined up in the nose tackle position, dropping back into coverage. No wonder Cutler, as a young gunslinger, completes so many passes to the wrong- colored uniform in the red-zone area.

"The hot concept now in red-zone coverages is the combination of zone and man," Kansas City coach Todd Haley said. "That's always difficult."

Difficult for the quarterbacks to read?

"And receivers," Haley said. "And coaches."

The red zone, though, is only one half, so to speak, of the field. The other half is how offenses consistently cross into opponents' territory. In 2009, there were a whopping 38.5 yards more per game than in 2005.

That's three Drew Brees' first-down completions.

Lewis said the evolution of the game is easy to understand. All one has to do is watch the first 15 picks in the draft, then follow the money.

"The game is put together for quarterbacks, receivers, pass rushers and cornerbacks," Lewis said. "That's who we're paying. And so it's put together that way. And that's where the game's give-and-take lies. You're going to move the ball a little bit more, but maybe in the end, that's where the cornerback position can earn his money."

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14760843#ixzz0jLXdFT4N

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

This ain't the 80's man coverage is not there three plays in a row.

[turftoad]

Not just us then.

[TXBRONC]

Not just us then.

Amazing don't you think?

[Lonestar]

Guess that is why our red zone O has sucked for more than a decade.

Mike was ahead of the rest of the league.

A real innovating leader.

That explains it all.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[TXBRONC]

Typical blame Shanahan for the ineptness of another coach.

[Kaylore]

Typical blame Shanahan for the ineptness of another coach.

So just so we're clear, you're saying the last three seasons Shanahan had redzone woes and then McDaniels inherited that team and had the same problems the following year; you're saying all that is on McDaniels?

[TXBRONC]

So just so we're clear, you're saying the last three seasons Shanahan had redzone woes and then McDaniels inherited that team and had the same problems the following year; you're saying all that is on McDaniels?

Did he run his offense or Shanahan's offense?

[Lonestar]

Yep the typical excuses for the mastermind.

The fact is he had 15 years in denver to fix it. Yet in his final year he was the poster child for the biggest disparity in yards V scoring EVER.

Her had a "franchise" QB, OLT, WR and in some folks eyes TE, the best OLINE in football yet could not score.

E very year since I can remember his year end pressers. He said fixing the red zone issuses would be one of his priorities.

Face the facts that the ZBS light weight OLINES he had here were just to small to move the LOS inside the red zone.

That is what it boiled down to for all of those years. If we did not score from outside the 20 then we ga ve up 4 points every time by settling for a FG when we stalled in the redf zone.


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[TXBRONC]

Here we go again typical hatred that is inept at actually answering the question. Whose offense was ran last season Shanahan's or McDaniel's?

[Ravage!!!]

Wow... what a shocker. Seems some want to cry and cry about posters bashing on the current coach and QB, yet can't seem to highlight anything in every article that might throw a negative light on the former coach.

:coffee:

Sure wish we had that offense with Shanahan rather than the inept one we have now.

[JDL]

Actually, teams have become so piss poor at rush defense (Exhausting so many resources into stopping the pass) the next team that comes out with a truly dominate rushing attack...with just a competent passer is going to have a lot of success (wait... that may very well be the Jets if they stick to their guns.)

[Lonestar]

Take your best shots the facts speak for themselves.

Mike set records all the while having all of the talent in the world, just failed to get it up in the endzone where it counts.

I have always wondered if he would be all that loved had he not have had a HOF FG kicker to save his bacon for all of those years.

Did Jason make mike or did mike make Jason for all of those years.

:laugh: :laugh:


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[TXBRONC]

Take your best shots the facts speak for themselves.

Mike set records all the while having all of the talent in the world, just failed to get it up in the endzone where it counts.

I have always wondered if he would be all that loved had he not have had a HOF FG kicker to save his bacon for all of those years.

Did Jason make mike or did mike make Jason for all of those years.

:laugh: :laugh:


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

It makes sense you're afraid to answer the question.

[turftoad]

Take your best shots the facts speak for themselves.

Mike set records all the while having all of the talent in the world, just failed to get it up in the endzone where it counts.

I have always wondered if he would be all that loved had he not have had a HOF FG kicker to save his bacon for all of those years.

Did Jason make mike or did mike make Jason for all of those years.

:laugh: :laugh:


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Read the thread title.

[TXBRONC]

Read the thread title.

You didn't know this was all about Shanahan eventhough the article never mentions him?

[Ravage!!!]

So just so we're clear, you're saying the last three seasons Shanahan had redzone woes and then McDaniels inherited that team and had the same problems the following year; you're saying all that is on McDaniels?

HELL yes! Isn't these the things the coach is supposed to fix??? why would you excuse him from NOT fixing it if the previous coach couldn't get it done? If you can't fix what he couldn't get done, they he'll have a short lived career.

Did he run shanahan's offense? No? Hmm.. Did he make trades and pick up free-agents to run his offense? Didn't he use a first round pick on a RB??? Didn't he change the blocking scheme? Then yes... I think he absolutely is the one to blame.

we can see you are blaming the coach for his deficiencies.

[Ravage!!!]

Take your best shots the facts speak for themselves.

Mike set records all the while having all of the talent in the world, just failed to get it up in the endzone where it counts.

I have always wondered if he would be all that loved had he not have had a HOF FG kicker to save his bacon for all of those years.

Did Jason make mike or did mike make Jason for all of those years.

:laugh: :laugh:


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel


:lol: :lol: :lol: You didn't even read the very article you posted!! ahahhahaahah

[TXBRONC]

HELL yes! Isn't these the things the coach is supposed to fix??? why would you excuse him from NOT fixing it if the previous coach couldn't get it done? If you can't fix what he couldn't get done, they he'll have a short lived career.

Did he run shanahan's offense? No? Hmm.. Did he make trades and pick up free-agents to run his offense? Didn't he use a first round pick on a RB??? Didn't he change the blocking scheme? Then yes... I think he absolutely is the one to blame.

we can see you are blaming the coach for his deficiencies.

Exactly. It's pathetic to blame Shanahan for shortcomings McDaniels offense. Shanahan did design the offense we have now nor did he call plays. If he was concerned about the offensive linemen being to small then should have done something about it.

[Lonestar]

Exactly. It's pathetic to blame Shanahan for shortcomings McDaniels offense. Shanahan did design the offense we have now nor did he call plays. If he was concerned about the offensive linemen being to small then should have done something about it.


When you inherit the purported best OLINE in the NFL and keep your OLINE coach as well as your RB coach because they supposedly are the best.

If they tell you that they can teach their charges to learn the new scheme and they say there will be no problem, what would you have had Josh do fire them all also before the draft or FA when he could have done something about it?

You bitch when he does something and now seem to be bitching because he did not make a change until he knew he had a problem and that was mid season on hamilton. and then lost Harris later in the year.

HE is now about to make a major change in size and skill level. Are You going to bitch about this also.

[Kaylore]

Did he run his offense or Shanahan's offense?

A different offense with the same result, so we can therefor conclude the problem is rooted in personnel and not scheme, and therefore something that was inherited. Now are you going to answer my question? Are you saying Shanahan's redzone woes make him a bad coach as well?

[TXBRONC]

When you inherit the purported best OLINE in the NFL and keep your OLINE coach as well as your RB coach because they supposedly are the best.

If they tell you that they can teach their charges to learn the new scheme and they say there will be no problem, what would you have had Josh do fire them all also before the draft or FA when he could have done something about it?

You bitch when he does something and now seem to be bitching because he did not make a change until he knew he had a problem and that was mid season on hamilton. and then lost Harris later in the year.

HE is now about to make a major change in size and skill level. Are You going to bitch about this also.

Unlike you I know what happened this past season because I actually watched the games. Maybe you didn't but I did.

The very article you started this thread with had nothing to do with Shanahan yet what did you like usual? You turned to pissing and moaning about how it's Shanahan's fault that McDaniels offense struggled. Did we use Shanahan's playbook? Nope. Did we use Shanahan's offensive system? NO we sure didn't.

Again whose the head coach in Denver now is it McDaniels or is it Shanahan? Last time I checked McDaniels is the one that makes the personnel decisions not Shanahan. He knew he was moving to power blocking scheme and he made the decision on what players and coaches he wanted. Blaming Shanahan for McDaniels personnel decisions and play calling is stupid.

Interesting you're boo hooing about how I'm bitching about every little thing (which is true by a long shot) about McDaniels yet that's ALL you've done for 10 years so tough rot. McDaniels will succeed or fail because of his own decisions so get over yourself and move on.

[Kaylore]

HELL yes! Isn't these the things the coach is supposed to fix??? why would you excuse him from NOT fixing it if the previous coach couldn't get it done? If you can't fix what he couldn't get done, they he'll have a short lived career.

Did he run shanahan's offense? No? Hmm.. Did he make trades and pick up free-agents to run his offense? Didn't he use a first round pick on a RB??? Didn't he change the blocking scheme? Then yes... I think he absolutely is the one to blame.

we can see you are blaming the coach for his deficiencies.

I'm not arguing McDaniels isn't to blame for the problems in his year. However it takes more than one year to fix a team with as many problems as we had. Our focus was obviously defense last year, and this year he is going to focus on getting bigger on our offensive line in the draft.

I was referring to the previous post where TXBRONC doesn't blame Shanahan for several years of mediocrity, and then McDaniels inherits a soft, undersized team with a front line (offense and defense) that is horribly small and not suited for his scheme, and then proceeds to pin all of that on McDaniels. I mean he's even saying the previous years under Shanahan are somehow magically, retroactively McDaniels fault, like he had some kind of time machine and went back to 2004 and messed things up for us.

It just goes to show you McDaniels haters are completely out of your minds. If I came from the year 2000 and didn't know any of the current circumstances and asked one you about Coach McDaniels, based on your "analysis" I would believe that the Broncos went 14-2 in 2008, then fired their coach and proceeded to go 1-15 in 2010 and Cutler was league MVP last year.

Fact is that McDaniels inherrited a crappy team. We had one of the easiest schedules in the league in '08, (We played four teams total who were playoff teams and one of them was the 8-8 Chargers) and were it not for Shanahan's coaching, would have won four games total.

McDaniels inherits a garbage defense and turnover-prone offense and faces a murderer's row schedule, where most of you hater's were saying at the beginning of last year we were going to win four games maximum. He makes as many moves as he can finishes out *SURPRISE* 8-8 in a year when we played only four teams that weren't playoff teams. Cutler goes to Chi-town and plays like crap. And our defense is in the top ten and our giveaways drop way down and our takeaways go way out. Guys like Marshall and Dumervil have record setting seasons (club and national) and we send some more guys back to the pro-bowl.

Now tell me honestly. With the third hardest schedule and all new coaches with a new scheme, tell me HONESTLY how McDaniels "ruined" everything by taking an 8-8 team into a much harder schedule and going 8-8. At the very MOST you could argue it's a lateral move, but there is no way you can say the team is "worse off" now. None. You would be a complete rage-driven idiot to even think as much.

[frauschieze]

I could have swore that the point of this article was that the problem not scoring in the red zone but moving easily within the 20s was that it was an NFL wide problem, not just isolated on the Broncos.

Maybe y'all read a different article than I did.

[TXBRONC]

A different offense with the same result, so we can therefor conclude the problem is rooted in personnel and not scheme, and therefore something that was inherited. Now are you going to answer my question? Are you saying Shanahan's redzone woes make him a bad coach as well?

You sure hell didn't ask me Shanahan's redzone woes made him bad coach. The answers no it doesn't but that's not what you asked. This is what you asked. In answer to the question below, yes it is McDaniels responsibility. It's his offense and he chose which would players would stay and which ones would leave.


Originally Posted by Kaylore
So just so we're clear, you're saying the last three seasons Shanahan had redzone woes and then McDaniels inherited that team and had the same problems the following year; you're saying all that is on McDaniels?

[TXBRONC]

I could have swore that the point of this article was that the problem not scoring in the red zone but moving easily within the 20s was that it was an NFL wide problem, not just isolated on the Broncos.

Maybe y'all read a different article than I did.

I completely agree.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

It's funny, I didn't see mention of McDaniels or Shanahan in the article. I must need a new monocle. WHERE IS MY NEW MONOCLE!?

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

ah....there it is
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/gaiusjozka/monocle.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Vanquisher-X/monocle.gif

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/RoboGundam6/Gifs/Monocle.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/absolutezero0/QuiteRly.jpg

Yeah..I don't understand the last one either...

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7025/monocle.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/i/monocle.jpg/)

[CrazyHorse]

One of the problems with Zone Blocking is that relies on having more people at the point of attack. This doesn't work well in the red zone because the defense bunches together. The solution is beef up the line, build a power running game, and pound the rock.

[Lonestar]

One of the problems with Zone Blocking is that relies on having more people at the point of attack. This doesn't work well in the red zone because the defense bunches together. The solution is beef up the line, build a power running game, and pound the rock.


Actually it requires the D to move one way or the other. if they are disciplined and stay at home then the ZBS is for crap.

and you are correct deep in the red zone there are many more players near the LOS the have so much less field to defend.

Why mike never got this concept is way beyond my pay grade. Guess he was content to kick FG and make Jason into a HOF player.

[atwater27]

Guess that is why our red zone O has sucked for more than a decade.

Mike was ahead of the rest of the league.

A real innovating leader.

That explains it all.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

0-4 in the Super Bowl pre-Shanahan

2-0 in the Super Bowl with Shanahan.

Remember that. Never forget it.

[Lonestar]

0-4 in the Super Bowl pre-Shanahan

2-0 in the Super Bowl with Shanahan.

Remember that. Never forget it.

yep he won two super bowls got the CAPS on my shelf.

But did virtually nothing after all his HOF players retired.

IIRC one playoff win in those ensuing 11 years.

Some thing to really hang your hat on. :salute:

[broncobryce]

Cutler leads the league the last couple years in red zone int's. I don't blame Shanahan for that. But obviously Denver is not the only team that has trouble in the red zone lately. I do think Denver will improve in that area with the power blocking scheme. I expect knowshon's TD total to go up.

[Lonestar]

Cutler leads the league the last couple years in red zone int's. I don't blame Shanahan for that. But obviously Denver is not the only team that has trouble in the red zone lately. I do think Denver will improve in that area with the power blocking scheme. I expect knowshon's TD total to go up.


Curious why you do not hold mike responsible for jays interceptions.

Had he been coached and held accountable by mike they flat would not have happened or at least not as much.

I alos believe that power blocking will enable us to score more in the red zone and for that matter get those 3rd and short first downs we have sucked at for years.

[broncobryce]

Curious why you do not hold mike responsible for jays interceptions.

Had he been coached and held accountable by mike they flat would not have happened or at least not as much.

I alos believe that power blocking will enable us to score more in the red zone and for that matter get those 3rd and short first downs we have sucked at for years.

Because I don't think anyone can stop Jay from throwing into triple coverage besides Jay. He just thinks he can sling the ball into anything. I'm sure he got on Jay for throwing those redzone picks. I think he was trying to coach him up, but you can only do so much.

[Lonestar]

Because I don't think anyone can stop Jay from throwing into triple coverage besides Jay. He just thinks he can sling the ball into anything. I'm sure he got on Jay for throwing those redzone picks. I think he was trying to coach him up, but you can only do so much.

Perhaps your correct but settingg his ass on the bench would have gotten his attention.

But then I have always believed that jay is another coach killer like jeff george was. will do what he wants or thinks he can do because of his rocket arm.

[broncobryce]

Perhaps your correct but settingg his ass on the bench would have gotten his attention.

But then I have always believed that jay is another coach killer like jeff george was. will do what he wants or thinks he can do because of his rocket arm.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Martz in chicago. If they don't win this coming season, the coaching staff and GM will probably be canned, and I will agree with you on the coach killer thing.

[Dirk]

Just a couple of things...

1. Shanahan - HOF Coach
2. McDaniels - Still basically finding his own (could be a HOF coach we just don't know yet)

Also, the CBs and Safetys are getting much faster and better it seems and would contribute to the low scoring.

As far as Denver's low scoring, it seems to me that BMarsh and Royal cannot get separation once they get down in the redzone. Now, is that because of coverage or just them? I don't know. But every game I watched, it looked like they just couldn't separate themselves. And would definately contribute to low scoring.

[arapaho2]

Actually it requires the D to move one way or the other. if they are disciplined and stay at home then the ZBS is for crap.

and you are correct deep in the red zone there are many more players near the LOS the have so much less field to defend.

Why mike never got this concept is way beyond my pay grade. Guess he was content to kick FG and make Jason into a HOF player.


yeah mike averaged 11th in offensive scoreing the nine years after elway...because he kicked FGs:coffee:

[Dreadnought]

On to the main point, because this thread had nothing to do with McDaniels or Shanahan no matter how hard anyone tries to pound that square peg into a round hole, I am convinced that the problem is twofold;

A) Pass patterns are too short. They are too focused on moving the chains rather than scoring. Moving the chains is a means to an end, not an end itself. The Saints kill you with 20+ yard scoring passes, and I don't think their players are that much better than anyone else's.

B) Dink n' Dunk passing has replaced too much of the running game (see above). Or rather, it has tried to. It won't work once you get down close. Theoretically, a screen or hitch is just a long handoff - we keep hearing that - except that it really isn't the same thing at all. Once you get into the Red Zone you have to have a believable running game, even if you choose to score via the pass, because that makes play action work and/or creates doubt in a defense's mind.

[Lonestar]

Your correct in sayong you have to have a credible running game which we have not had since portis left. Yes we had some 1K runners but once inside the 20's they were not getting the job done.

Does anyone debate that?

Outside of MIKE Bell a few years ago getting almost as many TD's as yards for the year we have not hada goal line. Back since MA and TD TD had a GREAT OLINE and since most of them retired andf Gibbs left it has been Blah at best inside the 10.

IMO Josh saw the problem and tried to fix it grabbing a "name" RB and beleiving that the best OLINE in football could actually learn how to do something LIKE powwer block.
I think he kept Dennison and the OLINE intact until he saw for sure it was not working.

Featherweight OLINE guys are just not big andf strong enuff to power block.
Hence one of the reasons all but 3 of that group are gone coach included.
I know that rick got a promotion but I'll also bet he was not getting great v ibes arfound dove v alley either.

Get the LOS fixed on both sides and lots of good things are going to happen.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[claymore]

Your correct in sayong you have to have a credible running game which we have not had since portis left. Yes we had some 1K runners but once inside the 20's they were not getting the job done.

Does anyone debate that?

Outside of MIKE Bell a few years ago getting almost as many TD's as yards for the year we have not hada goal line. Back since MA and TD TD had a GREAT OLINE and since most of them retired andf Gibbs left it has been Blah at best inside the 10.

IMO Josh saw the problem and tried to fix it grabbing a "name" RB and beleiving that the best OLINE in football could actually learn how to do something LIKE powwer block.
I think he kept Dennison and the OLINE intact until he saw for sure it was not working.

Featherweight OLINE guys are just not big andf strong enuff to power block.
Hence one of the reasons all but 3 of that group are gone coach included.
I know that rick got a promotion but I'll also bet he was not getting great v ibes arfound dove v alley either.

Get the LOS fixed on both sides and lots of good things are going to happen.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

There is a difference of 13 lbs between our starting Oline and the Patriots Oline. We arent as light as we like to think.

I myslef think its coaching. Dennison is gone, hopefully the new dude from the CFL knows what he's doing.

[arapaho2]

There is a difference of 13 lbs between our starting Oline and the Patriots Oline. We arent as light as we like to think.

I myslef think its coaching. Dennison is gone, hopefully the new dude from the CFL knows what he's doing.


i used to fight that same thing on the other board....when you looked at it we had guys at 290--295...but solid...not fatties...opposed to what was basicaly average for a oline 305-310..on fat boys... i never seen where that extra 10 pounds of flab or lack of it was why we had horrible red zone production...i would look more to the zen master of zone blocking alex gibbs left for atlanta...and each yr further from his teaching we got worse

case in point...the first superbowl...Gb had the biggest baddest dline around..our smaller oline..strong, as opposed to flabby manhandled them in the second half

[Lonestar]

There is a difference of 13 lbs between our starting Oline and the Patriots Oline. We arent as light as we like to think.

I myslef think its coaching. Dennison is gone, hopefully the new dude from the CFL knows what he's doing.

I think your close to the point. But even if we are close to NE size OLINE that still does not mean our guys could indeed power block. OR be taught how to by an ex LB that learned ZBS from the master.

I like to think that replacing casey and hamilton with at least 310+ guys will make a huge difference. That plus ha ving a REAL OLINE coach to teach them PBS.

Like I said before I really believe that Josh coming into town he was told that the OLINE and Coach was the BEST therefore he did not worry about it as he had other more pressing issuses.


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[broncobryce]

I'm not arguing McDaniels isn't to blame for the problems in his year. However it takes more than one year to fix a team with as many problems as we had. Our focus was obviously defense last year, and this year he is going to focus on getting bigger on our offensive line in the draft.

I was referring to the previous post where TXBRONC doesn't blame Shanahan for several years of mediocrity, and then McDaniels inherits a soft, undersized team with a front line (offense and defense) that is horribly small and not suited for his scheme, and then proceeds to pin all of that on McDaniels. I mean he's even saying the previous years under Shanahan are somehow magically, retroactively McDaniels fault, like he had some kind of time machine and went back to 2004 and messed things up for us.

It just goes to show you McDaniels haters are completely out of your minds. If I came from the year 2000 and didn't know any of the current circumstances and asked one you about Coach McDaniels, based on your "analysis" I would believe that the Broncos went 14-2 in 2008, then fired their coach and proceeded to go 1-15 in 2010 and Cutler was league MVP last year.

Fact is that McDaniels inherrited a crappy team. We had one of the easiest schedules in the league in '08, (We played four teams total who were playoff teams and one of them was the 8-8 Chargers) and were it not for Shanahan's coaching, would have won four games total.

McDaniels inherits a garbage defense and turnover-prone offense and faces a murderer's row schedule, where most of you hater's were saying at the beginning of last year we were going to win four games maximum. He makes as many moves as he can finishes out *SURPRISE* 8-8 in a year when we played only four teams that weren't playoff teams. Cutler goes to Chi-town and plays like crap. And our defense is in the top ten and our giveaways drop way down and our takeaways go way out. Guys like Marshall and Dumervil have record setting seasons (club and national) and we send some more guys back to the pro-bowl.

Now tell me honestly. With the third hardest schedule and all new coaches with a new scheme, tell me HONESTLY how McDaniels "ruined" everything by taking an 8-8 team into a much harder schedule and going 8-8. At the very MOST you could argue it's a lateral move, but there is no way you can say the team is "worse off" now. None. You would be a complete rage-driven idiot to even think as much.

Well said. I almost forgot how damn near everyone had us going 3-13 last season.(media wise) If we can improve our interior O-line as much as we improved on defense last season, we'll be in pretty good shape.

[Lonestar]

yeah mike averaged 11th in offensive scoreing the nine years after elway...because he kicked FGs:coffee:

actually here are the real numbers from NFL.com
here is the ranking for total tds, rushing TDs FG and in some years from various yardage



year TD's Running TD's FG FG 20-29 40-49
1992 10 3 3
1993 2 7 13
1994 10 3 3
1995 9 13 3
1996 3 2 22
1997 1 5 5
1998 2 1 13
1999 21 10 6
2000 2 3 10
2001 13 30 1
2002 6 5 8
2003 10 3 6
2004 10 15 2
2005 5 3 15
2006 18 18 7
2007 20 20 10 23 25
2008 13 14 20 8 26
2009 21 22 2 22 30



yep he was average 11.8th in the league of 32.

but he was also 8.5 in FG kicked.

so maybe he relied on FG more than he did on TDs and on rushing TD's he was 12.1


just a side note

TD had the following yards

Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2001 Denver Broncos 8 8 167 701 4.2 57 0 12 69 5.8 16 0 2 0
2000 Denver Broncos 5 4 78 282 3.6 24 2 2 4 2.0 5 0 1 0
1999 Denver Broncos 4 4 67 211 3.1 26 2 3 26 8.7 10 0 1 1
1998 Denver Broncos 16 16 392 2,008 5.1 70 21 25 217 8.7 35 2 2 2
1997 Denver Broncos 15 15 369 1,750 4.7 50T 15 42 287 6.8 25 0 4 0
1996 Denver Broncos 16 16 345 1,538 4.5 71T 13 36 310 8.6 23 2 5 3
1995 Denver Broncos 14 14 237 1,117 4.7 60T 7 49 367 7.5 31 1 5 2
TOTAL 1,655 7,607 4.6 71 60 169 1,280 7.6 35 5 20 8

Jason Elam
0-19 20-29 30-39
Career 4-4 150-156 132-147


Jason missed only 21 FG inside 40 yards for his career. and he did indeed allow mike to not worry so much about red zone. scoring as he was deadly.



Your correct but you only told part of the story

BTW he was here 10years after John retired...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

[arapaho2]

actually here are the real numbers from NFL.com








...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm


no your trying to say shanny scored more because he kicked more fgs

look at the last three seasons
2009....35 attempts...30 made...90 points off fgs

shanny last two seasons

2008....34 attempts...25 made.. 75 points off fgs

2007 elams last yr...31 attemts..27 made..81 points off fgs


so far it seems we kicked more fgs under mcd than we did under shanny the last two seasons..even with elam

we could even go back further

2006 with elam...35 attempts...27 made
2005 ................32 attempts...29 made

so it seems we score more points off fgs in mcd first year than we did that last five years undere shanny

so based off your :Why mike never got this concept is way beyond my pay grade. Guess he was content to kick FG and make Jason into a HOF player.

mcd must be trying even harder to make prater a hof kicker huh?

[Lonestar]

no your trying to say shanny scored more because he kicked more fgs

look at the last three seasons
2009....35 attempts...30 made...90 points off fgs

shanny last two seasons

2008....34 attempts...25 made.. 75 points off fgs

2007 elams last yr...31 attemts..27 made..81 points off fgs


so far it seems we kicked more fgs under mcd than we did under shanny the last two seasons..even with elam

we could even go back further

2006 with elam...35 attempts...27 made
2005 ................32 attempts...29 made

so it seems we score more points off fgs in mcd first year than we did that last five years undere shanny

so based off your :Why mike never got this concept is way beyond my pay grade. Guess he was content to kick FG and make Jason into a HOF player.

mcd must be trying even harder to make prater a hof kicker huh?

Remember that Josh had mike feather weight OLINE last year. Probably why the numbers were schewed this past year.


If you go back and look at were the FO were kicked from I suspect you will see that most of mikes stuff was because for 10 years or so he could not get it up in the red zone.

With the PBS that should change if it does not then I guess you are correct.

time will tell.