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Lonestar
03-26-2010, 06:54 PM
Woody's Mailbag: Marshall too volatile for Broncos to keep
Plus, Ryan in New Jersey asks Woody where the every-down players have gone
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post

Posted: 03/26/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Denver Post sports columnist Woody Paige posts Woody's Mailbag on Thursdays.

Drop a question into Woody's Mailbag, or visit The Denver Post's Sports Page.

A note before we begin this weekly ritual: Of the thousands of e-mails I receive, the hottest-button question (or a variation on the theme) is: "Why would the Broncos get rid of Brandon Marshall?"

Here is the simplified answer: I spent a full day doing the research on Brandon's numbers and achievements, and he definitely is one of the top five or six wide receivers in the NFL.

He can be one of the most engaging players you could talk to, and he has tried, at times, in the past couple of years to be a player who has been helpful to young people in the community and very cordial to Broncos fans.

However, he is, to be honest, a loose cannon always waiting to explode.

What if the Broncos keep him and: (A) He refuses another $10 million-a-year offer from the Broncos and decides to sit out camp or even a full season unless he is traded or paid more than any other receiver in the league; (B) He returns to the team and announces after three games he has an "injury" and can't play for several games; (C) He is involved in another domestic dispute, nightclub incident or serious traffic offense — and is suspended for a half season, or even a full one, by the NFL commissioner; (D) He has ongoing issues with Josh McDaniels and assistant coaches and players and decides to dog it for the season and causes more problems in the locker room; (E) He gets in another "mystery" situation, slips on a McDonald's bag and is severely injured again; or (F) He continually tells everyone around him he will never be happy until he is out of this town?

All those troubles have existed before, and often, and could happen at any time again.

Is that the guy you want in your workplace, no matter

Brandon Marshall (Joe Amon, The Denver Post)how talented he might be?
Do the Broncos just put up with all his antics and hope that someday he chooses to mature?

Do the Broncos and everyone else in Denver hold their breaths until something else happens?

Do the Broncos hire attorney Harvey Steinberg, who has saved Marshall from jail and long-term suspensions on several occasions, as Brandon's full-time nanny?

Or do you cut your losses, get the best you can in return, search for more receivers and move on?

The argument will go on until Brandon is gone, or until he gets right. But that's exactly why the Broncos would get rid of Brandon Marshall.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Woody, what's up with the rising number of specialists these days? Teams now seem to have to "have" one running back to pound the rock and another to be a scatback. Also, we see teams have one tight end to block and another to catch, or defensive linemen who can either rush or stop the run. Soon teams are going to have one quarterback for deep throws and another for short throws. Whatever happened to the every-down back and other such type players at other positions? Will we ever see it again?

— Ryan, New Jersey

Ryan: This is one of the smartest questions I've ever gotten in 40 years (this year) of being a columnist.

The NFL is ever-evolving. Stan Jones, a longtime coach for the Denver Broncos, used to tell me about playing both offense and defense for the Chicago Bears, before he was selected to the Hall of

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Once he asked owner/coach George Halas for something like a $500 raise, and Halas told him to leave the room for a minute. When Jones returned and asked about his raise, Halas replied: "You're talking to the wrong guy. I've traded you to the Redskins."

How many players play on both sides of the ball now? Devin Hester at Chicago did it briefly. Deion. Champ Bailey used to line up at wide receiver once every so often. Spencer Larsen is an occasional combo linebacker-fullback.

When I was on the Pro Football Hall of Fame Committee in the 1990s and the 2000s, not once did we consider a player who was a specialist and not an every-down player.

Soon, though, there will be a defensive lineman, maybe a linebacker, a tight end and certainly a running back who didn't play on third downs or in every series.

Can you imagine ever having Randy Gradishar off the field? Terrell Davis not playing on first and second downs?

You're right. It's common today. The only players in the game all the time are offensive linemen, the quarterback and starting cornerbacks.

Defensive linemen, linebackers, safeties are in and out on defense. Wide receivers, running backs, tight ends come and go. Tony Scheffler never played on "running" downs.

Brian Westbrook is a "third down" back, and some cornerbacks only play in a "nickel defense."

A guy makes $20 million a year, and he may not even play one series. Reggie Bush is a Heisman Trophy winner, but he's an alternating running back in the pros.

Adrian Peterson doesn't play every down. What if Paul Brown had told Jim Brown he had to leave the field on third downs?

What happened? I saw it beginning to happen with the Broncos in the 1970s. The defense alternated linemen in the 3-4 every other series, and the Broncos got to the Super Bowl using six quasi-starting ends and "nose guards" in the 3-4.

You can blame the changes on coaches like Don Coryell in San Diego, Tom Landry in Dallas, Bill Walsh in San Francisco and Joe Gibbs in Washington (even though he started some of this stuff as a San Diego assistant under Coryell when I first interviewed him for a column).

They were all innovators, along with Jerry Williams, who conceived of the "nickel defense" in 1960, when he removed a linebacker and inserted an extra cornerback on obvious passing downs. Nickel? Fifth defensive back?

Landry "invented" the 4-3 defense as the defensive coordinator with the Giants, and he really started alternating players as the head man in Dallas. He even alternated Craig Morton and Roger Staubach every play at quarterback for a while.

Landry sort of revived the "shotgun" offense, and fullbacks were replaced by extra wide receivers. Gibbs came up with an H-back offense, which replaced a back with a second tight end in motion.

Walsh introduced what Bill Parcells sarcastically called "The West Coast offense" in the 1980s, and he had a third wide receiver and third-down backs and stuff. Coryell, with his "Air Coryell offense," actually had a wide receiver playing tight end in Kellen Winslow Sr., and had interchangeable players all over the offense.

As best as I can remember, after Mike Shanahan studied the West Coast offense in San Fran, he mixed it with his own offense in Denver and first utilized five wide receivers, taking out tight ends and running backs. The point is: Offenses went to different sets on different downs, and defenses reacted by bringing in extra defensive backs and putting "eight men in the box," taking out a safety and inserting another linebacker, and teams then would find a pass-rushing specialist, and he would replace the run-stopping defensive end.

Teams would put in a Winslow type to replace the blocking tight end on third down, and, as you know, fullbacks began to disappear from the game, replaced by a third receiver.

Then teams would use two blocking tight ends in the red zone, and defenses would respond by having another blitzing linebacker on the field in passing situations.

And then you had New England, and now Denver, using defensive ends at outside linebackers. The game is ever-evolving. The idea is to get the right personnel on the field for the right situations, even if it means taking out a future Pro Bowl safety up in years (John Lynch) or taking out an all-pro defensive end to get an extra man in pass defense.

If you Google "every-down player," you'll see that scouts are talking about top college running backs being third-down backs (as Knowshon Moreno was advertised last year when he was drafted) and first-round defensive ends being described as "run-play defenders."

Guys do get millions of dollars for being on the field maybe 25 plays a game.

Athletes are bigger and faster, and they apparently can't hold up for every play, or they aren't as good at defending the run as they are rushing the quarterback.

Will it get to the point when Peyton Manning is replaced on third down as quarterback? I hope not. Isn't it amazing that Ryan Clady can line up for every play at left tackle as a run blocker and a pass blocker, but the guy across from him changes in every series or on every play?

I assume that soon a player will be introduced for the Hall of Fame as "the best third-down pass rusher in the history of the game who never set foot on the field on first and second downs or on alternative series in the first and third quarters."

You're right, Ryan.

Woody, have I missed something or is Sam Bradford still putting off NFL workouts? If I remember correctly, he skipped the combine, and keeps putting off his "pro days." It sounds to me like he's clearly not healthy. How can he still be the consensus No. 1 pick?

— Nate, St. Cloud, Minn.

Nate: If you were Sam He Am, wouldn't you put it off as long as you could, to give your arm as much time as possible to recover?

Bradford, and most other quarterbacks, did not throw at the combine. That's not unusual. Annually, the QBs would rather throw at home on familiar turf to receivers they worked with in college.

Bradford's agent has claimed that Bradford changed his pro day in Norman because it was scheduled for the same time as the owners' meetings this week in Orlando, Fla., and the head coaches are there — playing golf and complaining about the new overtime rule (because they don't want to make another decision; they don't even want to decide what to have for lunch).

He will throw at 11 a.m. (local time) on Monday. He obviously must be healthy enough now to throw. I hope you can attend.

Offensive lineman Bryan Bulaga from Iowa seems to fit exactly what McD is looking for in terms of size (6-feet-6, 312 pounds). Is there any chance the Broncos take him and put him on the right side?

— Scott, Des Moines

Scott: I have no life. I actually watched the NFL combine on TV for three days. I was very impressed with Bulaga, but what I think doesn't matter to anybody.

The scouts loved him, though. He has the size, and he also has good speed, as if that matters for a lineman.

His arms were a bit short, as if that matters, but what does matter is he needs to get a bit stronger, and he will.

He has great upside, and he will be drafted in the middle of the first round. Do the Broncos take him? I think he's a possibility, but I would suspect that Dez Bryant, the wide receiver, is still at the top of their list.

Hi Woody: So, in your blessed opinion, what happens to Josh McDaniels if the Broncos have as bad a season as they did last season, or worse? The Broncos' 2009 collapse was less dramatic, but with the same result as the 2008 collapse, which landed a two-time Super Bowl winning head coach on the unemployment line (which we all knew wouldn't be for long). I'm a Broncos fan, and I'm hopeful for success.

— Dan, Greeley

Dan: Blessed? Biased, maybe.

I think Josh has three years to prove himself. If the Broncos don't progress and make the playoffs and do something big and good in 2011, he's gone.

Pat Bowlen doesn't want to keep waiting. Like me, he's getting older and more impatient.

For comparison, Mike Shanahan was 8-8 in his first season, 13-3 in his second (but lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars in the playoffs), but won the Super Bowl in his third year.

I would guess McDaniels has to go at least 10-6 in the coming year and make the playoffs and maybe win a game, but, by the third year, he has to be in the AFC championship game.

Woody, why are Bronco fans so hyped up about Brady Quinn? He is an unaccomplished player who, just like Chris Baker in last week's mailbag, has been dubbed with the "potential" label. Considering that you prefaced potential with "dreaded," Broncoland needs to slow down. Quinn has yet to do anything. Don't get me wrong, I love the deal. He was cheap, so the Broncos have nothing to lose. In the interim, let's let Kyle Orton play (he earned it). Heck, with his second season in the system, he just might get it done!

— Manuel Garcia, Colorado Springs

Manuel: You're somewhat right about Quinn, but people go all batty and ballistic over first-round draft choices, especially if they are quarterbacks, and particularly if they played at Notre Dame (even if Notre Dame is yesterday's news).

And many people don't like Kyle Orton. Alert the media!

Quinn was cheap, unless you love Peyton Hills (and admit it, many of you do, because I've heard from you in this mailbag).

But, in my worthless opinion, Orton will never, as Larry the Cable Guy says, "Get 'er done."

The last time I got excited about a quarterback was during the NFL strike season of 1982. I wandered the country watching college games, looking for a quarterback for the Broncos, as if I were some know-it-all scout.

I went to a Stanford-Washington game. (Don't get ahead of me here.)

I came back, went into Dan Reeves' office (before you needed a winning lottery ticket to get an appointment with a head coach in Denver), and Reeves was eating a sub sandwich, and I said: "Dan, I've seen the future, and he is John Elway. I saw him throw across his body back across the field right through a cornerback, and before the cornerback could bring his arms together to intercept the ball, the ball already was through his arms."

Dan looked at me like I was the idiot I am, put down his sub, wiped some mayonnaise off his mouth and said in his best Southern accent: "You don't think I don't know about Elway? But we got no chance whatsoever of ever getting 'im."

Little does he or I know that John's daddy Jack would never let him play for the coach in Baltimore, Frank Kush. Jack Elway had known Kush, and hated him.

So John threatened to play for the Yankees instead of the Colts, and Colts owner Bob Irsay knew Broncos owner Edgar Kaiser Jr. (who didn't know a football from a cantaloupe) and offered to trade Elway to Denver.

Al Davis wanted Elway in the worst way and tried his best to get him in Oakland (right down the road from Stanford), but Irsay hated Davis and did the deal with Kaiser.

My big-time source with the Broncos called me while I was in the middle of a radio show and whispered: "We just got Elway," and I said: "You got to be ******** me!"

Reeves later told me he had the same reply when Kaiser told him there was a chance of getting Elway. Get 'er done.

I've seen Elway, and Brady Quinn is no Elway. But we need a good QB controversy, and The Mighty Quinn, as I've always called him on "Around The Horn," from the Bob Dylan song "Quinn the Eskimo," has potential.

What up with Chris Andersen's NON-BIRD look? No spikes, no headband ... He looks ordinary. Let's get him back to the "Birdman" persona already!

— Mrs. Joey Carson, Littleton

Mrs. Carson: I'll tell him when and if the Nuggets ever return from this road trip. Chris certainly looks more like a Beatle than he does a Birdman.

I think he's been frustrated by 47 different injuries, but you can't have all those tattoos and that nickname and look like Ringo Starr.

He's got no mojo without the spiked hair.

Coin toss for Jets or Giants? Why not have the NFL schedule both teams to play against each other to open the new stadium?

— Robert Beck, Lawrenceville, Ga.

Robert: Both teams sell 75,000 season tickets. What are you going to do — tell the Giants' fans to sit in the Jets fans' laps for the first half, then switch? I don't think so.

The fans of the two teams don't like each other, anyway.

I can tell you from living in New York for almost three years and going to the stadium for games all the time, they are different fans.

The Jets fans are younger and rowdier and poorer, generally. The Giants fans are Republicans. (Now I'll get e-mails from Rush Limbaugh lovers and Jets fans. Why do I do this to myself? I can't help myself. And I always tell the truth.).

Jets fans drink beer, Giants fans drink wine. Jets fans eat at delis in Jersey. Giants fans eat at the Tavern on the Green in Central Park.

You can't put them in the same place, and certainly can't put them next to each other.

I like what the NFL did. The Jets got the Monday night game on ESPN, which is better, and I'm biased, as I mentioned earlier.

The World Wide Leader gives me my other paycheck.

Add my paychecks from The Post and ESPN, and I make as much as the kid who says: "Fries with that?"

Now, it's your turn. Comment away, and tell me how wrong I am and what an old idiot I am. Tell me something I don't know.

Woody Paige first joined The Denver Post in 1981 as a sports columnist. Drop a question into Woody's Mailbag, or visit The Denver Post's Sports Page



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14759453?source=rsssimplepiebroncos#ixzz0jKW6UD 3r

turftoad
03-26-2010, 06:57 PM
More anti Marshall stuff is not a suprise from you JR. :tsk:

Hope no one posts any anti McD stuff.

Northman
03-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Im just surprised anyone is writing about Marshall.

Bosco
03-26-2010, 07:11 PM
One of the few times I agree with Paige. Marshall has all world talent but he's got a 10 cent head and he's one misstep away from missing a big part of the season at minimum. Ship his ass out and let him be some other team's headache.

Ziggy
03-26-2010, 07:34 PM
More anti Marshall stuff is not a suprise from you JR. :tsk:

Hope no one posts any anti McD stuff.

I think there's plenty of both to go around, don't you Turf?

turftoad
03-26-2010, 07:41 PM
I think there's plenty of both to go around, don't you Turf?

Unfortunatly, yes.

If we had a winning team it would all be for not. Everyone would be having man love for the whole entire team. :D

Lancane
03-26-2010, 07:46 PM
I think Josh has three years to prove himself. If the Broncos don't progress and make the playoffs and do something big and good in 2011, he's gone.

Pat Bowlen doesn't want to keep waiting. Like me, he's getting older and more impatient.

For comparison, Mike Shanahan was 8-8 in his first season, 13-3 in his second (but lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars in the playoffs), but won the Super Bowl in his third year.

I would guess McDaniels has to go at least 10-6 in the coming year and make the playoffs and maybe win a game, but, by the third year, he has to be in the AFC championship game.


Best part of the article IMHO...

However, if the Broncos are close to 8-8 again with a still declining offense...especially if McDaniels keeps dismanteling each part of it, he may not see year three!

Lancane
03-26-2010, 07:47 PM
More anti Marshall stuff is not a suprise from you JR. :tsk:

Hope no one posts any anti McD stuff.

I did... Jr. can be Anti-Marsh and I can be Anti-McDuh and in the end it balances out!

:D

dogfish
03-26-2010, 07:52 PM
I spent a full day doing the research on Brandon's numbers and achievements, and he definitely is one of the top five or six wide receivers in the NFL.

either twenty minutes is woody's idea of a "full day," or he's actually as dumb as i think he is. . . .

Ziggy
03-26-2010, 07:53 PM
Unfortunatly, yes.

If we had a winning team it would all be for not. Everyone would be having man love for the whole entire team. :D

Being a winning team will never be enough for some of the people on this forum. Until McD wins a championship there will always be bashing, and even then there will still be some. It's just the nature of sports fans.

dogfish
03-26-2010, 07:58 PM
Being a winning team will never be enough for some of the people on this forum. Until McD wins a championship there will always be bashing, and even then there will still be some. It's just the nature of sports fans.

shanahan won TWO, and JR still spits on him at every possible opportunity. . . . :heh:

Lancane
03-26-2010, 08:13 PM
Being a winning team will never be enough for some of the people on this forum. Until McD wins a championship there will always be bashing, and even then there will still be some. It's just the nature of sports fans.

Actually I was once one of his biggest supporters, while the majority wanted us to hire Spagnuolo or some other defensive minded coach. It was what he pulled that made me dislike him so. I hope he can change my mind and then I can just chaulk it up as just youthful idiocy, but until he does he remains McDuh to me!

topscribe
03-26-2010, 08:36 PM
either twenty minutes is woody's idea of a "full day," or he's actually as dumb as i think he is. . . .

I don't know how dumb you think Woody is, but he's probably dumber. :laugh:

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silkamilkamonico
03-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Being a winning team will never be enough for some of the people on this forum. Until McD wins a championship there will always be bashing, and even then there will still be some. It's just the nature of sports fans.

I really like McDaniels, but he better start winning now, and by that I mean progress. If he's gone in 2011, the next coach hired better make us to the playoffs in 2 years as well, or he should also be fired.

dogfish
03-26-2010, 09:40 PM
I don't know how dumb you think Woody is, but he's probably dumber. :laugh:

-----

wow. . . now that's just painful. . . .

Lonestar
03-26-2010, 10:19 PM
shanahan won TWO, and JR still spits on him at every possible opportunity. . . . :heh:

I beg your pardon just call a spade a spade.

Great OC, crappy GM and HC.

I'd hire him in a heart beat as an OC and make sure I had a great GM to get him talent.

Your right He won two but after melting down by not having his team ready for the Jags an expansion team in a home loss.

Could have easily been four in a row. But then all of the HOF typos retired or moved to other teams and we failed to win BUT ONE play off game since.

I fail to understand why two lombardis granted him so much slack.

Lonestar
03-26-2010, 10:24 PM
I did... Jr. can be Anti-Marsh and I can be Anti-McDuh and in the end it balances out!

:D

Not overly anti BM just do not think he will ever mature. Normally I think that woody is full of crap and the only reason I posted it here was because it was fresh news from the post.

If the guy will sign a NON guaranteed contract with lots of incentives I'd love to have him on the team..

But I know he is not going to chance it because I suspect deep down he knows he is going to FUBAR it again down the road.

If he is worried about a career ending injury I'd bet the Broncos would even pay for an insurance policy to cover that.

But we all know he is just out for a huge pay day. So he will indeed go to the highest bidder and that is his choice.

I wish him well where ever he goes unless he pays DEN. I hope we get MAX for him as we deserve it for putting up with all his do do..

turftoad
03-26-2010, 11:55 PM
I beg your pardon just call a spade a spade.

Great OC, crappy GM and HC.

I'd hire him in a heart beat as an OC and make sure I had a great GM to get him talent.

Your right He won two but after melting down by not having his team ready for the Jags an expansion team in a home loss.

Could have easily been four in a row. But then all of the HOF typos retired or moved to other teams and we failed to win BUT ONE play off game since.

I fail to understand why two lombardis granted him so much slack.



How many other Broncos head coach's have won the Lombardi????? (twice)

That is why he desreves some slack, and maybe some of your respect.

Lonestar
03-27-2010, 12:34 AM
How many other Broncos head coach's have won the Lombardi????? (twice)

That is why he desreves some slack, and maybe some of your respect.

If you say so..

He lost my respect when he failed to get us to the playoffs and WIN one since those lombardis..

Each year telling us we need to work on red zone scoring and we are just a couple of players away from the promised land.

Had he not pissed away 10 to 20 million in dead cap space EVERY year perhaps I could respect him more.

But I'm glad that some still do.

It will not surprise me in the least if their top ten DEFENSE this past year is not in the toilet in another two years.