Broncos Trying to Trade Down

[WARHORSE]

Trading down new strategy

By Mike Klis
The Denver Post (mklis@denverpost.com?subject=The Denver Post: Trading down new strategy)
Article Last Updated: 04/08/2008 12:16:02 AM MDT




If the Broncos make a move on draft day, it will most likely be down the board, not up.
And the Broncos are trying to trade out of their No. 12 overall pick, according to three NFL sources. The Broncos could receive a late first-round pick as well as a third-round pick based on the NFL draft value chart.
Trading down won't be easy, primarily because other teams want to make the same move. Conversely, there likely aren't many partners willing to move up and take on the extra money required to sign the No. 12 pick, which is expected to command a guarantee of about $11 million.
A logical trading partner for the Broncos would be the Dallas Cowboys, who have the Nos. 22 and 28 picks. The Broncos also have made deals in the past with the Detroit Lions, who have the No. 15 pick, Houston (No. 18), Tampa Bay (20) and Washington (21).
One reason the Broncos prefer to trade down is there doesn't figure to be a franchise-type player at their need positions — offensive tackle, defensive tackle and receiver — available at No. 12. Left tackle Jake Long and defensive tackles Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis are all projected top-10 selections. And there may not be a receiver considered worthy of a top-12 pick.
Another factor is a large supply of running backs, offensive tackles and receivers ranked between the mid-first round and late-second round, so the Broncos believe they could find better production-to-dollar value by picking later than No. 12.
One scenario that would be certain to please quarterback Jay Cutler: The Broncos use their first two picks to take Vanderbilt left tackle Chris Williams and receiver Earl Bennett. Finances could be coming into play. The Broncos have cut expenses in some areas this offseason, spent judiciously in others. Why give 12th- pick money to the likes of Williams, safety Kenny Phillips, defensive tackle Kentwan Balmer or receivers Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas and DeSean Jackson if they can be had for less money later in the first round?

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Take it with a grain of salt. They not only will try to trade down, but also will be trying to have trade partners in place should certain scenarios take place. As far as what theyre looking for............Klis doesnt know. Hes guessing.

[Superchop 7]

He is absolutely correct.

[sneakers]

I like the idea of trading down, but I also like the idea of drafting the guy out of boise state.

[HolyDiver]

I am hoping we will trade with Dallas..............Then trade one of those two #1's for two #2's. ................Laws and Lofton in the 2nd round would make me very happy.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not so big on trading out of the first round but trading down sounds alright. However, it kind of sounds like that may not be possible.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think he has been reading our forum! Sweet! Let's hope we can find a trade partner.

[DenBronx]

maybe we can get dallas to trade pick 22 and their 2nd rounder???

[BOSSHOGG30]

I hope we are being really nice to Atlanta right now. They are loaded with 1st day picks. How many 2nd rounders do they have now after the Hall trade? 3? 4?

[Drill-N-Fill]

I am hoping we will trade with Dallas..............Then trade one of those two #1's for two #2's. ................Laws and Lofton in the 2nd round would make me very happy.

Dallas won't be so generous to hand us 2 number 1's. I would say their number 28 and a 2nd rounder sounds about right.

I like the idea of trading down AFTER we find out who's not available at 12.

[haroldthebarrel]

Id suspect we have a lot of tentative deals with other teams that is dilingent on certain players being there in the draft.
Every team has those deals, but I think we are one of the more aggressive teams at that.

Suffice to say I am happy with a trade down. Of the people at 12 I really love, only Chris Williams would make me really happy.

I agree with Drill... above me. I dont think we will trade down before the draft at all. It has to happen on draft day.

[underrated29]

It will be with houston, they really want a top notch OT, at 12 they can still get one. clady,williams, etc. I dont know what they would give up. would a 3rd and their 1st equal our 1st?

Shanny likes to deal with people he knows and is friends with. But i would prefer dallas's firsts and we give them fox or something. I dont really know.

[turftoad]

Clady, Williams and Otah will be gone after the first 16 picks. Along with Long, they are the cream of the crop. If we do trade down I don't think we go OT.
I think we would go, DT, LB or WR not in any particular order.
Stewart is now concidered a mid to late first rounder and Mendenhall will be gone before Stewart will. Depending how far we trade down, one of those two guys may be available if we do decide to go RB.
Myself, like HD would like to see us go with the best available DT and ILB Lofton with the first two picks. I would like to see us take Bennett in the second if Lofton isn't still there which I don't think he will be.

[HolyDiver]

Dallas won't be so generous to hand us 2 number 1's. I would say their number 28 and a 2nd rounder sounds about right.

I like the idea of trading down AFTER we find out who's not available at 12.


LMAO...........We gave up a 3rd round pick just to move from 21 to 17..............12 to 22 amd a 2nd maybe........but 12 to 28? ..............No way. Really, 22 and 28 for our #12 would be fair..............A better deal for us, but still, Dallas would have the 12th overall pick.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Atlanta has 3 2nd rounders...

34, 37, and 48

If we can swing a trade with them we could have 4 top 50 athletes added to our roster.

34, 37, 42, and 48

or we could obtain those 3 picks and then use two of them to trade up to one of Dallas 1st rounders.

[LRtagger]

Yea no way we get both of their number 1's unless McFadden is still on the board, then they might consider it. Dallas will probably draft a corner in the 1st too, so we might even be able to throw Foxy in there and grab up their third pick as well. Then they would be able to use our #12 on a RB and their 22/28 on a WR.

Even if we got their 22 or 28 and another 2nd, we would be golden. Maybe Stewart at 22/28 and a DT and WR/OT in the second. Could be a great draft for us.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Obviously this was expected.

[LRtagger]

LMAO...........We gave up a 3rd round pick just to move from 21 to 17..............12 to 22 amd a 2nd maybe........but 12 to 28? ..............No way. Really, 22 and 28 for our #12 would be fair..............A better deal for us, but still, Dallas would have the 12th overall pick.

Maybe our 12 plus Foxy for their 22 and 28

Our #12 is worth 1200 points

22 is worth 780 and 28 is worth 660..so thats 1440 total.

With the positions Dallas is looking to address in the first (WR, DB, RB) I dont think they would give up both picks for our 12 unless for McFadden. They can get a top of the board WR and DB at the 22 and 28 spots. If we throw Foxworth in, they might be inclined to make the deal since that would address their need for a corner.

[HolyDiver]

We also need to prepare for life without Marcus Thomas...............He is one more speeding ticket away from being released............drafting two DT's would be the smart thing to do.............If we traded with Dallas and got their #22, I say Kentwan Balmer and then Laws and lofton in the 2nd round.

[HolyDiver]

Maybe our 12 plus Foxy for their 22 and 28

Our #12 is worth 1200 points

22 is worth 780 and 28 is worth 660..so thats 1440 total.

With the positions Dallas is looking to address in the first (WR, DB, RB) I dont think they would give up both picks for our 12 unless for McFadden. They can get a top of the board WR and DB at the 22 and 28 spots. If we throw Foxworth in, they might be inclined to make the deal since that would address their need for a corner.


That would work.

[turftoad]

Atlanta has 3 2nd rounders...

34, 37, and 48

If we can swing a trade with them we could have 4 top 50 athletes added to our roster.

34, 37, 42, and 48

or we could obtain those 3 picks and then use two of them to trade up to one of Dallas 1st rounders.

Either one of those scenerios would work for me.

[LRtagger]

Atlanta has 3 2nd rounders...

34, 37, and 48

If we can swing a trade with them we could have 4 top 50 athletes added to our roster.

34, 37, 42, and 48

or we could obtain those 3 picks and then use two of them to trade up to one of Dallas 1st rounders.

This would be great as well. With as deep as a draft class this year is, having 4 second rounders would be incredible.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Too bad there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that Atlanta gives up their awesome stash of second rounders to please the needs of fans hoping for a Madden 2009 type fantasy draft.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Too bad there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that Atlanta gives up their awesome stash of second rounders to please the needs of fans hoping for a Madden 2009 type fantasy draft.

Maybe maybe not... It matters how much they value the players on their draft board. They already have a lot of young talent and they may want two top 12 talents over 4 top 50 talents. Plus with Hall leaving they may be interested in Bly, Paymah, or Foxworth.

They would then look at the trade as 2 top 12 talents and a good CB who already has established himself as a good player for 3 unproven draft picks.

[lex]

Wow, is Klis ever in love with DeSean Jackson. And, btw, no way on Balmer. Id rather have Laws and someone later.

BTW, if Dallas or SF were to trade with us: Trevor Laws, Anthony Collins/Gosder Cherilus, Jamaal Charles.

[atwater27]

This is excellent news. Hope we can swing a fat trade.

[tubby]

I would love it if we somehow picked up a late 1st and an extra 2nd.

Pat Sims
Curtis Lofton
Jamaal Charles

[BOSSHOGG30]

Stewart
Laws
& Cherilus

[JONtheBRONCO]

Well, if a team in the 20's trades spots with us... We better get something with great value in return. Last season, we moved up from what, 21, 22 to 17? And we gave up our 1st, 3rd, and 6th...

[honz]

This is excellent news. Hope we can swing a fat trade.
It's "phat", not "fat". Thanks.:D

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Maybe maybe not... It matters how much they value the players on their draft board. They already have a lot of young talent and they may want two top 12 talents over 4 top 50 talents. Plus with Hall leaving they may be interested in Bly, Paymah, or Foxworth.

They would then look at the trade as 2 top 12 talents and a good CB who already has established himself as a good player for 3 unproven draft picks.

Atlanta isn't going to acquire two top twelve draft choices and pay them what, 35 million in guarantees total (estimate) when they can get their guy early on, and end up drafting three second round choices at well for the cost of that same #12 pick originally; in all actuality - probably a bit less.

Any cornerback we'd trade to them (Bly wouldn't be an option) would command a new contract as well. The idea that three big pay days would be coming to the Falcons probably isn't realistic. Considering they have less than 8 million dollars of cap room.

They're not trading up with us. It's not happening. No chance. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

[nevcraw]

Trade w/ Dallas and get Stewart and Brandon Albert.. That would be amazing..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Trade w/ Dallas and get Stewart and Brandon Albert.. That would be amazing..

I'd enjoy a trade with Dallas too, but I'm not sure who they'd really bite on making that big of a move for.

With their selections now, they're in a prime position to get a WR or a CB at either spot. I think unless a miracle happens with McFadden, they probably aren't going to make an epic move up the draft board.

[lex]

I'd enjoy a trade with Dallas too, but I'm not sure who they'd really bite on making that big of a move for.

With their selections now, they're in a prime position to get a WR or a CB at either spot. I think unless a miracle happens with McFadden, they probably aren't going to make an epic move up the draft board.

A more realistic scenario would be San Francisco but even thats wishful thinking.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If Matt Ryan falls to 12... watch the Atlanta trade talks begin. It will be similar to the Brady Quinn trade the Browns made.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

If Matt Ryan falls to 12... watch the Atlanta trade talks begin. It will be similar to the Brady Quinn trade the Browns made.

Quinn fell to past 20 I believe, and I doubt Ryan falls that far.

Then again, how much higher does Atlanta rate Ryan above Brohm and perhaps the likes of Flacco and Henne? Atlanta's prime to pick up a skill player at their early selection, and get a second round guy mentioned at one of their other selections. Obviously, Flacco and Henne aren't as great of prospects -- but to the Falcons it's quite plausible that they'd lean that way more than using a top selection on Ryan.

Then again, that's just me. The Falcons made out well through trades and now have a stash of second round picks. The only scenario that would even make sense for them to be trading up is if Ryan fell that far, and with Baltimore behind them and some other teams interested in a QB; I could see other teams bidding as well. Atlanta might have pick leverage, but would Denver even want to move that far down?

It's a two way street, and that's what a lot of people are forgetting when coming up with these trade downs. I'd love to take Atlanta's selections, but I'm not going to get my hopes up thinking it's even a real possibility when it most certainly is not without some sort of divine intervention from the Football Draft Gods.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Quinn fell to past 20 I believe, and I doubt Ryan falls that far.

Then again, how much higher does Atlanta rate Ryan above Brohm and perhaps the likes of Flacco and Henne? Atlanta's prime to pick up a skill player at their early selection, and get a second round guy mentioned at one of their other selections. Obviously, Flacco and Henne aren't as great of prospects -- but to the Falcons it's quite plausible that they'd lean that way more than using a top selection on Ryan.

Then again, that's just me. The Falcons made out well through trades and now have a stash of second round picks. The only scenario that would even make sense for them to be trading up is if Ryan fell that far, and with Baltimore behind them and some other teams interested in a QB; I could see other teams bidding as well. Atlanta might have pick leverage, but would Denver even want to move that far down?

It's a two way street, and that's what a lot of people are forgetting when coming up with these trade downs. I'd love to take Atlanta's selections, but I'm not going to get my hopes up thinking it's even a real possibility when it most certainly is not without some sort of divine intervention from the Football Draft Gods.


I can see a three team trade in this. If Denver did aquire three 2nd rounders from Atlanta I'm sure they would have a team like Dallas in mind to trade back up into the later 1st round. We still have some players that we could trade away to make something happen.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I can see a three team trade in this. If Denver did aquire three 2nd rounders from Atlanta I'm sure they would have a team like Dallas in mind to trade back up into the later 1st round. We still have some players that we could trade away to make something happen.

A move that far down and then back up would be a waste of resources.

[BOSSHOGG30]

A move that far down and then back up would be a waste of resources.

I'm worried that if we are willing to trade back that we are in fact not looking at Clady (which makes me happy) and Chris Williams (which worries me). I think Shanahan has to know that both guys will be gone after the Texans pick. Doesn't sound like we are targetting a tackle in the 1st round.

[BOSSHOGG30]

A move that far down and then back up would be a waste of resources.

Denver gets:
Atlanta 2nd rounder
Altanta 2nd rounder
Dallas 1st rounder

Atlanta gets:
Dallas 1st rounder
Bobby Carpenter
Dominique Foxworth
Denver 4th rounder

Dallas gets:
Denver's 1st rounder

Dallas would still have a 1st rounder but a very good 1st rounder and a shot at Mendenhall.

Atlanta get two good young players and adds a late 1st rounder as well as a 4th rounder

Denver gets two second rounders and moves back in the 1st round

[haroldthebarrel]

Too bad there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that Atlanta gives up their awesome stash of second rounders to please the needs of fans hoping for a Madden 2009 type fantasy draft.

True. besides with all the needs they have at this point, why would they even consider trading up. If I was their GM I would trade down the first rounder possibly even if I got a little lesser deal than pr the draft value chart.

[lex]

A move that far down and then back up would be a waste of resources.

I think he was saying:

Atlantas 2nd Rd picks < > Denvers #12
Atlanta's #3 pick < > Dallas' late 1sts and a player

...leaving, Dallas with the #3, Atlanta with 3 firsts and a player, and Denver with the 2nds.

Correct me if Im wrong.

Its actually not bad. I havent checked the points though.

[underrated29]

Denver gets:
Atlanta 2nd rounder
Altanta 2nd rounder
Dallas 1st rounder

Atlanta gets:
Dallas 1st rounder
Bobby Carpenter
Dominique Foxworth
Denver 4th rounder

Dallas gets:
Denver's 1st rounder

Dallas would still have a 1st rounder but a very good 1st rounder and a shot at Mendenhall.

Atlanta get two good young players and adds a late 1st rounder as well as a 4th rounder

Denver gets two second rounders and moves back in the 1st round



damn that right there is sexy!!!!


But i dont think atlanta is going to trade w/ anyone. I think they want to fill all their holes with as many people as possible. But dayum that would be nice.

[haroldthebarrel]

Denver gets:
Atlanta 2nd rounder
Altanta 2nd rounder
Dallas 1st rounder

Atlanta gets:
Dallas 1st rounder
Bobby Carpenter
Dominique Foxworth
Denver 4th rounder

Dallas gets:
Denver's 1st rounder

Dallas would still have a 1st rounder but a very good 1st rounder and a shot at Mendenhall.

Atlanta get two good young players and adds a late 1st rounder as well as a 4th rounder

Denver gets two second rounders and moves back in the 1st round

That is a really interesting deal. You should have all the kudos for coming up with that idea. I think Dallas would loose a little bit in the deal in the end, but some people have said you can just throw out the usual value pr pick in this draft.
Excellent post!

[haroldthebarrel]

Also Gosder Cherilus really intrigues me. Given time he might even be the best of the bunch at left tackle.
With Bosshogs idea we could get somebody like him who just might have a great opportunity to shine if he goes to the right clubs. Like maybe Denver could be.
(What I mean by right club is that some teams are better at harvesting and developing talent in players at certain positions. Denver at rb, pittsburgh at lb and Philly at DE to name some teams)

[lex]

Denver gets:
Atlanta 2nd rounder
Altanta 2nd rounder
Dallas 1st rounder

Atlanta gets:
Dallas 1st rounder
Bobby Carpenter
Dominique Foxworth
Denver 4th rounder

Dallas gets:
Denver's 1st rounder

Dallas would still have a 1st rounder but a very good 1st rounder and a shot at Mendenhall.

Atlanta get two good young players and adds a late 1st rounder as well as a 4th rounder

Denver gets two second rounders and moves back in the 1st round

The #12 = 1200 pts and the 37+48+68 also = 1200 pts. Its perfect.

It could be

Denver: 37, 48, 68 (along with #42, which is our own pick)
Atlanta: 12, 22, 28, and players from Dallas (perhaps Spears and Carpenter)
Dallas: 3

[BOSSHOGG30]

That is a really interesting deal. You should have all the kudos for coming up with that idea. I think Dallas would loose a little bit in the deal in the end, but some people have said you can just throw out the usual value pr pick in this draft.
Excellent post!

I don't know how the point scale works but I'm pretty sure that the point total to move up to 12 overall even with the two Dallas 1st rounders wouldn't be enough. (I'm not sure though) Dallas all in all would lose two late 1st rounders and Bobby Carpenter who is probably equal to a 4th rounder to move up to 12 overall. They may get lucky and get a shot at McFadden or at the very least they assure themselves of Mendenhall or Stewart.

I'm just taking a shot at what some of the possibilites are. We could do this all day and I doubt anyone would get it right... but it is fun to guess and talk about.

I doubt Dallas is that high on a player that will be there at 12 unless it is McFadden. They would probably like to stay where they are and spend less money on a guy like Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles, or Jonathan Stewart shall he fall that far.

[lex]

The #12 = 1200 pts and the 37+48+68 also = 1200 pts. Its perfect.

It could be

Denver: 37, 48, 68 (along with #42, which is our own pick)
Atlanta: 12, 22, 28, and players from Dallas (perhaps Spears and Carpenter)
Dallas: 3

bump

[haroldthebarrel]

I don't know how the point scale works but I'm pretty sure that the point total to move up to 12 overall even with the two Dallas 1st rounders wouldn't be enough. (I'm not sure though) Dallas all in all would lose two late 1st rounders and Bobby Carpenter who is probably equal to a 4th rounder to move up to 12 overall. They may get lucky and get a shot at McFadden or at the very least they assure themselves of Mendenhall or Stewart.

I'm just taking a shot at what some of the possibilites are. We could do this all day and I doubt anyone would get it right... but it is fun to guess and talk about.

I doubt Dallas is that high on a player that will be there at 12 unless it is McFadden. They would probably like to stay where they are and spend less money on a guy like Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles, or Jonathan Stewart shall he fall that far.


draft value chart.
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

22 and 28 equals 1440 or between the 8 and seven pick.

Keep in mind though that rumors has it that the old value chart wont be the same this year, though that is as it says just rumors.

[haroldthebarrel]

bump

Also an excellent idea.
Another excellent post!

edit.
I think the team with the most picks from 20 to 60 are the one that would do the strongest.
This draft is very deep with excellent prospects at OT, rb, wr, cb and imho te.
There will be a run on cbs and OT as usual but the second tier rb and wr proposes excellent value.
It wouldnt shock me if there are a lot of 1K receivers and running backs in the end from this draft.

[Drill-N-Fill]

I don't know how the point scale works but I'm pretty sure that the point total to move up to 12 overall even with the two Dallas 1st rounders wouldn't be enough. (I'm not sure though) Dallas all in all would lose two late 1st rounders and Bobby Carpenter who is probably equal to a 4th rounder to move up to 12 overall. They may get lucky and get a shot at McFadden or at the very least they assure themselves of Mendenhall or Stewart.

I'm just taking a shot at what some of the possibilites are. We could do this all day and I doubt anyone would get it right... but it is fun to guess and talk about.

I doubt Dallas is that high on a player that will be there at 12 unless it is McFadden. They would probably like to stay where they are and spend less money on a guy like Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles, or Jonathan Stewart shall he fall that far.

From a value standpoint Atl and Dal are getting shafted. Atl knows what they are getting in Foxworth (solid corner, not to great, not bad either) & Carpenter. They could easily take some LB and CB with more upside. Dallas won't give in to those (2) 1st rounders unless DMAC is available. Even then, we might have to give up some other compensation. Interesting trade though... hope it works out exactly how you said it...:elefant:

[yardog]

Boss I think there is an opening for a GM in Denver lets get you an interview asap.

[lex]

Also an excellent idea.
Another excellent post!

Yeah, thanks. We could get Laws, Collins, Charles, and Nelson/Avery.

[broncohead]

I don't like the idea of drafting a day 1 LB only because we signed both Niko and Boss. It would be a better idea to use all the picks that we have on shoring up the O-line and D-line.

[Drill-N-Fill]

Philly would be an interesting team to trade with. They always seemed to move up in drafts and get "their guy." This year they might be interested in Dom-Crom. Also packaging a deal with Foxworth might be useful.

[JONtheBRONCO]

I'd love to trade with Atlanta but no way they give up very many picks... They have glaring holes on both sides of the ball, and with 4 picks in the first 2 rounds, they are going to need every one of them.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I don't think the Falcons have that many needs really... QB and DT would help them a lot, besides that they have tremendous potential. They are a super young and talented team.

QB (Heavy need)
1. Chris Redman
2. Joey Harrington
3. D.J. Shockley

RB (no longer a need thanks to Turner signing)
1. Michael Turner (good)
2. Jerious Norwood (good)
3. Jason Snelling

FB (Good fullback, not a need)
1. Ovie Mughelli (good)
2. Corey McIntyre

WR (Young and showed some improvement)
1. Roddy White (good)
2. Michael Jenkins (good)
3. Adam Jennings
4. Eric Weems
1. Joe Horn
2. Laurent Robinson (2nd year player with potential)
3. Brian Finneran

TE (could use another TE?)
1. Ben Hartsock (free agent signing)
2. Martrez Milner (2nd year player with potential)
3. Jason Rader
4. George Cooper

K 1. Jason Elam (do I need to say anything?)

DE
1. John Abraham (one of the best)
2. Jamaal Anderson (2nd year player with promise)
3. Chauncey Davis (another young player with potential)
4. Simon Fraser
5. Derrick Jones

DT (need)
1. Jonathan Babineaux
2. Trey Lewis
3. Kindal Moorehead
4. Montavious Stanley
5. Rashad Moore

MLB
1. Keith Brooking (one of the best)
2. Tony Taylor (2nd year player with promise)

WLB (Need)
1. Stephen Nicholas
2. Travis Williams
3. Earl Everett (2nd year guy with potential)

SLB
1. Michael Boley (one of the best in the league)
2. Cameron Vaughn

CB
1. Chris Houston (2nd year high draft pick)
2. David Irons (2nd year, good young player)
3. Von Hutchins
4. Brent Grimes

FS
1. Erik Coleman (good)
2. Jimmy Williams (good and can play corner too)
3. Antoine Harris

SS
1. Lawyer Milloy (vet on the decline)
2. Daren Stone (2nd year player with potential)
3. C.J. Gaddis (2nd year player with potential)

P (Good punter with strong leg)
1. Michael Koenen

[Skinny]

Maybe Mikeys buddy Jeff Fisher. Swap first rounders (#12 for #24) and pick up their third (#85). I'm sure Jeffrey would love to get his hands on DeSean Jackson ...

[nevcraw]

Maybe Mikeys buddy Jeff Fisher. Swap first rounders (#12 for #24) and pick up their third (#85). I'm sure Jeffrey would love to get his hands on DeSean Jackson ...

now that would be a bummer.
I'd rather they stay at 12 pick up Big Bad BA. let him compete for the LT spot. He shows on film he certainly has the athletic ability to move outside and is quick enough to play in the WC ZBS. But i'm no scout..

[haroldthebarrel]

now that would be a bummer.
I'd rather they stay at 12 pick up Big Bad BA. let him compete for the LT spot. He shows on film he certainly has the athletic ability to move outside and is quick enough to play in the WC ZBS. But i'm no scout..

He did gave up 5.5 sacks last year though. That is kinda scary and shows that he is a good way from being an average pro LT. I hope I am wrong as I havent studied him on film, but those things scare me. He only played two games at LT as well. Isnt the push up front that is one of our problems on offense?

[broncosfanscott]

I am not really knowledgeable on trading draft picks and all, however I have no problem with the Broncos trading down in the 1st Rd. to get some more picks. I mean if there isn't a quality player that we need at #12 then why not. The last thing you want to do is draft a player that high and have to pay him more money than he is worth. Just don't trade out of the first round.

[TXBRONC]

Maybe Mikeys buddy Jeff Fisher. Swap first rounders (#12 for #24) and pick up their third (#85). I'm sure Jeffrey would love to get his hands on DeSean Jackson ...

The Titans are in need of wide receivers the ones they had this year were terrible.

[Skinny]

now that would be a bummer.
I'd rather they stay at 12 pick up Big Bad BA. let him compete for the LT spot. He shows on film he certainly has the athletic ability to move outside and is quick enough to play in the WC ZBS. But i'm no scout..Right now, me too, i was just feeding off the article ...

If Chris Williams is there at #12, that's my pick. If we trade down in the first, Williams gone, i look for Cherilus.

[TXBRONC]

Right now, me too, i was just feeding off the article ...

If Chris Williams is there at #12, that's my pick. If we trade down in the first, Williams gone, i look for Cherilus.

PFW has Cherilus ranked in their top five for tackles in this year's draft. Oddly Williams didn't make their top five.

[Skinny]

PFW has Cherilus ranked in their top five for tackles in this year's draft. Oddly Williams didn't make their top five.
I like his quick feet and ability to handle speed rushers, Williams that is. He did a great job in the SEC, he did'nt give up many sacks ...

[TXBRONC]

I like his quick feet and ability to handle speed rushers, Williams that is. He did a great job in the SEC, he did'nt give up many sacks ...

Yeah that's why I didn't quite agree with PFW's take. As you said Williams played in the SEC so he wne up against elite defensive ends week and week out and did quite well from what I understand.

[omac]

I'm not so big on trading out of the first round but trading down sounds alright. However, it kind of sounds like that may not be possible.

Yup, sounds like everybody wants to trade down. The draft guys at ESPN video (I think it was them) said that this draft has much better value after the 1st round; they said there are very few big time prospects, then there's a huge dropoff within the 1st round.

I think the GM of the Browns did the right thing by trading his picks and using his resources to acquire 2 really good DTs. They drafted great last season, but decided that those players they just got were better than what the 1st round had to offer.

In a Miami article, it even mentioned that if the Fins couldn't find a trade-down partner, they also have the option of delaying their pick ... letting time expire and making the next team pick first ... then they can at any point go back into the 1st round. That will save them a lot of money while still letting them get the player they want, with the disadvantage of not acquiring more draft picks while moving down.

[TXBRONC]

Yup, sounds like everybody wants to trade down. The draft guys at ESPN video (I think it was them) said that this draft has much better value after the 1st round; they said there are very few big time prospects, then there's a huge dropoff within the 1st round.

I think the GM of the Browns did the right thing by trading his picks and using his resources to acquire 2 really good DTs. They drafted great last season, but decided that those players they just got were better than what the 1st round had to offer.

In a Miami article, it even mentioned that if the Fins couldn't find a trade-down partner, they also have the option of delaying their pick ... letting time expire and making the next team pick first ... then they can at any point go back into the 1st round. That will save them a lot of money while still letting them get the player they want, with the disadvantage of not acquiring more draft picks while moving down.

I have heard Mel Kiper on any number or occassion say it's always easier to trade up than it is to trade down.

[Scarface]

I prefer we stay where we are and get a body guard for Jay Cutler. If we do trade down I wouldn't mind trading to #15 w/Detroit. We can still get one of the tackles and Det would be able to get Mendenhall or Stewart. If we trade further down than 15 I'm going to end up pissed.

[TXBRONC]

I prefer we stay where we are and get a body guard for Jay Cutler. If we do trade down I wouldn't mind trading to #15 w/Detroit. We can still get one of the tackles and Det would be able to get Mendenhall or Stewart. If we trade further down than 15 I'm going to end up pissed.

I think the article by Klis Detroit is one of the few possibilities we have for a trade partner.

[underrated29]

you can put me on the want to trade down and not wanting to draft a lt.

Kupes may or may not be who we want at lt. But he was a low rd pick. Harris however, was a 3rd rd pick. I do not want to invest a 1st and a 3rd in the same position. I realize that it might be one of the most important positions. BUt a 1st and 3rd. Thats a lot of talent for one position.

How many times has our LT been hurt and unable to play? NOt too many that i can recall. IF we take a LT with our 1st it seems kinda like a waste of our 3rd when we took harris, especially when pears and kupes can play there.

Thats why trading down makes the most sense to me. We dont get a LT until later. We get other guys we dont have much depth at, or unmistakeable top tier talent that would be top 10 in any other year.

Obviously i want stewart, i dont hink it will happen, but if we can trade down. Get a guy like balmer, and then have to seconds, to take guys like baker or otah, and then another dt; laws, or rb cj, or wr doucet, lb mayo we will be much better off then 1 LT.

if we cant trade out i still say take stewart/mend. BUt thats just me.....

[hamrob]

If there's such a drop off in talent after the first 10 picks this year...and we can't trade back because there aren't any takers...maybe we should trade our #1 for somebody's 2009 #1 and a verteran player that can help us this year?

[WARHORSE]

Atlanta isn't going to acquire two top twelve draft choices and pay them what, 35 million in guarantees total (estimate) when they can get their guy early on, and end up drafting three second round choices at well for the cost of that same #12 pick originally; in all actuality - probably a bit less.

Any cornerback we'd trade to them (Bly wouldn't be an option) would command a new contract as well. The idea that three big pay days would be coming to the Falcons probably isn't realistic. Considering they have less than 8 million dollars of cap room.

They're not trading up with us. It's not happening. No chance. Zip. Nada. Zilch.



You dont know that. They can get their QB at three and the LT that will be protecting him for life at 12. It really depends as Boss says, on how they evaluate the players.........Although not likely, we have all seen teams sell their soul for players they fall in love with.

You never know whats gonna happen on draft day...........:shocked:

[WARHORSE]

If there's such a drop off in talent after the first 10 picks this year...and we can't trade back because there aren't any takers...maybe we should trade our #1 for somebody's 2009 #1 and a verteran player that can help us this year?


Im lookin into my crystal ball right now.



:shocked:



Sorry.........................I dont see it happenin.

[Drill-N-Fill]

If there's such a drop off in talent after the first 10 picks this year...and we can't trade back because there aren't any takers...maybe we should trade our #1 for somebody's 2009 #1 and a verteran player that can help us this year?


You most likely won't get a better draft position than at the 12th spot next year. IMO its not worth taking a gamble.

[TXBRONC]

If there's such a drop off in talent after the first 10 picks this year...and we can't trade back because there aren't any takers...maybe we should trade our #1 for somebody's 2009 #1 and a verteran player that can help us this year?


I've been under the impression that over all this strong draft, especially in the area of linemen.

[HolyDiver]

I think if we take a Tackle, it will be one that weighs less than 305.................And NOT in the 1st round.

[BOSSHOGG30]

The Redskins are reportedly "very high" on UVA OL Branden Albert.

They'd probably have to trade up from No. 21 to get him. Washington could use a guard behind over-30 starters Randy Thomas and Pete Kendall, but Albert is likely a top-15 choice. He's viewed as a future left tackle by some.
Source: Washington Post

Anyone think the Redskins would be interested in drafting at the 12th overall spot?

[omac]

Wow that would be great news.

[lex]

The Redskins are reportedly "very high" on UVA OL Branden Albert.

They'd probably have to trade up from No. 21 to get him. Washington could use a guard behind over-30 starters Randy Thomas and Pete Kendall, but Albert is likely a top-15 choice. He's viewed as a future left tackle by some.
Source: Washington Post

Anyone think the Redskins would be interested in drafting at the 12th overall spot?

If were going to trade down, Id rather go lower than 21 because the other pick we get has to be better. 21 is also not the best spot to be.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If were going to trade down, Id rather go lower than 21 because the other pick we get has to be better. 21 is also not the best spot to be.

I think between 17 and 24 would be perfect. Plus we can't be too picky... we will be lucky as it is to find a trade partner with the back end talent in this draft.

[lex]

I think between 17 and 24 would be perfect.

No it wouldnt. Id rather have that 2nd pick we get in that trade scenario be closer to or in the 2nd. That would be better. It would be kind of pointless otherwise. We might as well stay at 12. At 17 to 24, your still reaching for defensive tackles and all the upper tier left tackles are gone.

[WARHORSE]

I think between 17 and 24 would be perfect. Plus we can't be too picky... we will be lucky as it is to find a trade partner with the back end talent in this draft.



Trading with Tennessee at 24, they would have to give up their first, second and third rounders.

[underrated29]

has nayone heard the rumors about philly offering their first and lito to get down to carolina at 13. (is that who is at 13.) Whoever is at 13.

Maybe they would want to go 1 sot higher to us at 12. I dont really know if we need lito though, but food for thought and conversation.

[BOSSHOGG30]

has nayone heard the rumors about philly offering their first and lito to get down to carolina at 13. (is that who is at 13.) Whoever is at 13.

Maybe they would want to go 1 sot higher to us at 12. I dont really know if we need lito though, but food for thought and conversation.

Lito has some serious health questions. I don't think he is worth much right now.

[underrated29]

Lito has some serious health questions. I don't think he is worth much right now.

Nope, and we dont need him, we've got that postition covered, but it might be another possible suitor to trade back with. IE. a 3rd instead of lito.

[WARHORSE]

We need Lito like we need a hole in the head.

[LRtagger]

Maybe they would trade Bunkley :rofl:

[Lonestar]

Maybe they would trade Bunkley :rofl:

I'd go for that in a heart beat..

[broncohead]

No it wouldnt. Id rather have that 2nd pick we get in that trade scenario be closer to or in the 2nd. That would be better. It would be kind of pointless otherwise. We might as well stay at 12. At 17 to 24, your still reaching for defensive tackles and all the upper tier left tackles are gone.

Kentwan Balmer at 21 wouldn't be a reach. Plus we aren't after a LT according to coaches. Harris is our guy. I think that we need a RT to compete and eventually start over Pears. Plus Stewart could be there.

[TXBRONC]

Kentwan Balmer at 21 wouldn't be a reach. Plus we aren't after a LT according to coaches. Harris is our guy. I think that we need a RT to compete and eventually start over Pears. Plus Stewart could be there.

Where did you hear or read that BH? Because was just reading in The Sporting News that the will most certainly draft an offensive tackle because it such a deep pool of tackles. I'm not saying you're wrong it's just that there is some differing information out there.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=397258

Broncos Team Report
Posted: April 8, 2008
Lee Rasizer
For Sporting News

A weekly update on the Denver Broncos, including updates on Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Chris Kuper and Tony Scheffler.

PERSONNEL ANALYSIS: QB Jay Cutler's chastisement of WR Brandon Marshall was surprising because he'd played things close to the vest with his comments in his first two years in Denver. But by calling out Marshall publicly after talking to him privately several times, it's clear Cutler is ready to take over as a team leader. Cutler spoke with some of the veteran players last season, and they said he needed to have a more authoritative voice. His decision to tell Marshall his off-field antics -- whether accidental or not -- have to stop is a clear sign Cutler has taken that advice to heart. ...

The Broncos almost certainly will draft an offensive tackle from a deep pool of prospects, but for now, they are giving Chris Kuper a chance to prove he can be a starter at the position. Kuper was solid at left guard last season, as a replacement for the injured Ben Hamilton. Hamilton appears to be healthy now, and the decision to move Kuper outside indicates the team is serious about playing its top five linemen, even if it means shifting them to new positions. Kuper could get a shot at left tackle, but he may have a more realistic shot at playing right tackle for the long term.

HARD TRUTH: The Broncos had better come away with a successful draft, because the fans are getting restless. On the surface, Denver's conservative approach to free agency after a 7-9 season, the decision to let K Jason Elam sign with Atlanta, and the messy dismissal of GM Ted Sundquist make the organization appear in disarray. In the end, though, what matters is the talent on hand. With the roster seemingly thin at several spots, it's pivotal for the Broncos to get a couple of solid offensive line and defensive tackle prospects, along with a couple of weapons for the offense.

SCOUTING REPORT: TE Tony Scheffler bulked up last season, with the hope of holding up better as a blocker, and worked on his speed closer to camp. But a broken foot waylayed his plans, and Scheffler now admits he never felt quite right physically last season. During private workouts this February and March, Scheffler has focused on his quickness off the ball and on gaining separation from defenders. He will play a pivotal role working alongside Daniel Graham in two-tight end sets and be especially useful split wide in multiple-receiver sets. Scheffler has already developed a close connection with Cutler.

OFFENSIVE ADJUSTMENTS: Cutler's big arm is an asset, but with Javon Walker gone, the Broncos' receivers are going to have to prove they have the speed to stretch the field vertically for the team to make deep throws more of a staple on offense. Marshall's longest receptions have come more on tackle-busting plays more than long tosses, although he had been focusing on improving his deep quickness in workouts before injuring his arm. Brandon Stokley is more of an underneath threat, particularly on third downs. It's imperative for Keary Colbert to emerge as a threat on deep routes, or for Denver to add a speedster early in the draft.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

No it wouldnt. Id rather have that 2nd pick we get in that trade scenario be closer to or in the 2nd. That would be better. It would be kind of pointless otherwise. We might as well stay at 12. At 17 to 24, your still reaching for defensive tackles and all the upper tier left tackles are gone.

The other top 4 tackles after Long are basically pick yer favorite. None would be a reach between 17 and 24. I think 21 would be perfect as it could get us another #2 and we could still get a Phillips, Balmer, Cherilus, Mayo, Sweed.

[broncohead]

I've read that coach Shanny believes Harris will be the starting LT so if we bring in an OT he will most likely compete for RT. From what I've read from the comments that Shanny has said Harris is our guy at LT. I'm not saying that we wont draft an OT.

[Dean]

I've read that coach Shanny believes Harris will be the starting LT so if we bring in an OT he will most likely compete for RT. From what I've read from the comments that Shanny has said Harris is our guy at LT. I'm not saying that we wont draft an OT.

Wasn't it just last week when at the owners meeting Shanahan said that right now his starting left tackle would be Kuper and Pears at the right tackle? . . . or was I imagining this?

[HolyDiver]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/

This is a very good site.............has every teams picks.............now it shows us taking Steltz in the 2nd round..................way too high for him.

[tubby]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/

This is a very good site.............has every teams picks.............now it shows us taking Steltz in the 2nd round..................way too high for him.

Todd Blythe to HOU. Nice.

[TXBRONC]

You know it really doesn't sound all that promising for Denver to trade down. I know a couple of teams have been mentioned as potential trade partners but the key is do they have the desire to trade up?

[broncohead]

Wasn't it just last week when at the owners meeting Shanahan said that right now his starting left tackle would be Kuper and Pears at the right tackle? . . . or was I imagining this?

I didn't hear this. Sorry if I'm behind on the info. Link?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/

This is a very good site.............has every teams picks.............now it shows us taking Steltz in the 2nd round..................way too high for him.

Switch the Arkansas State S for Steltz and I don't hate that draft.

[underrated29]

SHANNY SAID KUPES WOUld start, but only because he was a starter last year. Harris would likely win the job. But they will battle it out.

shanny loves competition.

[broncohead]

SHANNY SAID KUPES WOUld start, but only because he was a starter last year. Harris would likely win the job. But they will battle it out.

shanny loves competition.

I was under the impression that Kuper would be challenging Pears at RT... Sorry if I miss-understood.

[TXBRONC]

SHANNY SAID KUPES WOUld start, but only because he was a starter last year. Harris would likely win the job. But they will battle it out.

shanny loves competition.

Yes Shanahan does like competition. Hopefully whomever becomes the starting left tackle doesn't win it by default (because injury or some other reason).

[broncohead]

Would Kuper be a better RG then Holland?

[TXBRONC]

Would Kuper be a better RG then Holland?

Personally I think so but I also think that he might actually be a better left tackle than Harris.

[broncohead]

Personally I think so but I also think that he might actually be a better left tackle than Harris.

I guess we will find out during the pre-season.

[TXBRONC]

I guess we will find out during the pre-season.

Yep it ought to be an interesting battle. Of course Denver may also throwing a rookie offensive tackle in the mix.

[omac]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/

This is a very good site.............has every teams picks.............now it shows us taking Steltz in the 2nd round..................way too high for him.

Why do these draft sites keep giving us WRs in the 1st round? Here, we get Malcolm Kelly, and in nfldraftcountdown, we get Desean Jackson. In one or both drafts, we passed up Clady(ot), Phillips(fs) (is McCree our future after Lynch?), and Mendenhall(rb). We already have a #1, we don't need to pick this high for a #2 who'll have 40 or less yards a game.

[TXBRONC]

Why do these draft sites keep giving us WRs in the 1st round? Here, we get Malcolm Kelly, and in nfldraftcountdown, we get Desean Jackson. In one or both drafts, we passed up Clady(ot), Phillips(fs) (is McCree our future after Lynch?), and Mendenhall(rb). We already have a #1, we don't need to pick this high for a #2 who'll have 40 or less yards a game.


Part of it is that we don't number two receiver in place. Colbert might be the guy but its debatable at this point. Another reason I think you're seeing draft sites predicting we take a wide receiver based on current events with Marshall.

[SoCoPoCo]

Might the Vikings be doing some wheeling and dealing on draft day? Scout.com is reporting that Denver is looking to trade out of the 12th slot in the draft, and the Vikings could be a likely trade partner for them. Last year, the Vikings picked up Denver’s 2008 third round pick in a trade, and by sending that pick back to the Broncos, they could potentially jump up to #12.

It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if this deal happens, because as the article mentions, it’s possible that teams in the 12-17 slots could overtake the Vikings in their probable pursuit of a defensive end (aka: Derrick Harvey).

Source: http://mvn.com/nfl-vikings/2008/04/09/draft-rumblings-vikes-and-broncos-to-swap-picks/


For all of us trying to foresee the trade-down possibilities, this is one coming from someone potentially wanting to move up to 12:

Den gets: Rd 1 Pick 17 950 pts
Rd 3 Pick 73 225 pts (our original pick back!)
Rd 4 Pick 117 60 pts; Total Pts = 1245

Min gets: Rd 1 Pick 12 1200 pts
Rd 5 Pick 139 36.5 pts; Total Pts = 1236.5

It gets us our 3rd rounder back plus another in the 4th for 3 total in that round that could be leveraged to move back up if we wanted.

All this said, I agree with those who have posted that any trade scenarios are an exercise in futility until the players start to come off the board. I just hope Min wants Harvey bad enough to grab him at 12 - and I think he will still be there.

Edit: Noticed the original link was posted earlier - wanted to add my input for the points value.

[WARHORSE]

This is one trade that has some real potential to get done. Harvey can very well be taken anywhere in the first, starting with Cincy.

[TXBRONC]

It seems to me that only reason these different teams have been mentioned is because we've traded with them in the past. I understand that having traded with these different teams indicates a cordial business relationship however I just don't see that a good reason to speculate that they might be willing to move up the draft board.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Atlanta - 3, 34, 37, 48, 68
1. Atlanta trades #34, 37 and 68 to get #12
Not going to happen because it would have Denver fall too far.

Carolina - 13, 43, 67, 74
2. I can't see Carolina moving up 1 spot

Bears - 14, 44, 70, 90
3. Bears trade #14 and #90 to jump over Carolina
I could see this happen. Denver would then pick up an extra 4th.

Cowboys - 22, 28, 61, 92
4. Cowboys trade #22 and #28 to Denver for #12 and a fourth and a fifth.
Unlikely to happen unless someone the Cowboys loved fell. More likely if they do it is to trade with New England at #7 or even the Jets

Lions - 15 45, 76, 87
5. Lions send #15 and #87 to Denver for #12.
This seems the most realistic to me because the Lions would jump over several teams (one a division rival) to get the player they want.

Packers - 30 56, 60 91
6. Pack trade #30, #56 and #91 to Denver for #12.
Unrealistic, but would give Denver a "gobb" of picks to play with

Minny - 17, 47 73, 82
7. Minn trades #17 and #73 to Denver for #12
I like this trade because we recoup our 3rd round pick and do not drop down too far.

Patriots - 7 62, 69, 94
8. Denver trades #12 and their two fourths to the Patriots for #7. Denver then selects S. Ellis

Redskins - 21 51, 84
9. Wash trade #21 and #51 to Denver for #12
Denver would then have #21, #42 and #51. They could use #51 to drop back again to get more picks or they could use a few of their picks at the end of the draft to move around and get players they want.

My two favorite trades are with Minnesota and Washington.

[MOtorboat]

Great job Boss of spelling each one out...I'd like to get a third-round pick out of it, if we pull the trigger.

[HolyDiver]

We gave up a 3rd last year just to move up 4 spots.............if we move up 8 or 9 spots, that's definately worth a 2nd rounder.............12-28 would be worth a 1st round pick.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Atlanta - 3, 34, 37, 48, 68
1. Atlanta trades #34, 37 and 68 to get #12
Not going to happen because it would have Denver fall too far.

Carolina - 13, 43, 67, 74
2. I can't see Carolina moving up 1 spot

Bears - 14, 44, 70, 90
3. Bears trade #14 and #90 to jump over Carolina
I could see this happen. Denver would then pick up an extra 4th.

Cowboys - 22, 28, 61, 92
4. Cowboys trade #22 and #28 to Denver for #12 and a fourth and a fifth.
Unlikely to happen unless someone the Cowboys loved fell. More likely if they do it is to trade with New England at #7 or even the Jets

Lions - 15 45, 76, 87
5. Lions send #15 and #87 to Denver for #12.
This seems the most realistic to me because the Lions would jump over several teams (one a division rival) to get the player they want.

Packers - 30 56, 60 91
6. Pack trade #30, #56 and #91 to Denver for #12.
Unrealistic, but would give Denver a "gobb" of picks to play with

Minny - 17, 47 73, 82
7. Minn trades #17 and #73 to Denver for #12
I like this trade because we recoup our 3rd round pick and do not drop down too far.

Patriots - 7 62, 69, 94
8. Denver trades #12 and their two fourths to the Patriots for #7. Denver then selects S. Ellis

Redskins - 21 51, 84
9. Wash trade #21 and #51 to Denver for #12
Denver would then have #21, #42 and #51. They could use #51 to drop back again to get more picks or they could use a few of their picks at the end of the draft to move around and get players they want.

My two favorite trades are with Minnesota and Washington.
Another thought I had was to trade back for a 1st round pick next year. With the quality LB's and safties coming out next year, having two 1st round picks would be awesome. And we could still get a good OT in the 1st this year.

[jrelway]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/

This is a very good site.............has every teams picks.............now it shows us taking Steltz in the 2nd round..................way too high for him.

i wouldnt mind having malcomb kelly one bit. either he or limas would do us nice. the second pick? not so sure about that one. the rest look good to me though.

[NightTrainLayne]

i wouldnt mind having malcomb kelly one bit. either he or limas would do us nice. the second pick? not so sure about that one. the rest look good to me though.

Kelly had a terrible workout yesterday for scouts. Terrible.

Depending on who you believe he ran either a 4.68 or a 4.75 40, and looked bad in other drills.

Kelly tried to blame the surface, but the scouts say the surface is exactly what they use at the combine.

I think Kelly will be dropping. He's still a stud receiver, but no sense overpaying for him now.

[HolyDiver]

Kelly had a terrible workout yesterday for scouts. Terrible.

Depending on who you believe he ran either a 4.68 or a 4.75 40, and looked bad in other drills.

Kelly tried to blame the surface, but the scouts say the surface is exactly what they use at the combine.

I think Kelly will be dropping. He's still a stud receiver, but no sense overpaying for him now.


Hopefully he slips to the 4th round like Marshall did.............He's close to the same size too.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Kelly had a terrible workout yesterday for scouts. Terrible.

Depending on who you believe he ran either a 4.68 or a 4.75 40, and looked bad in other drills.

Kelly tried to blame the surface, but the scouts say the surface is exactly what they use at the combine.

I think Kelly will be dropping. He's still a stud receiver, but no sense overpaying for him now.

Maybe he will learn that you can't just get by on talent that you have to work hard. I'm sure the injury he was coming back from played a factor in this as well. Hopefully he can get back in shape as well as get healthy so he can live up to the hype as a #1 receiver.

[LRtagger]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/

This is a very good site.............has every teams picks.............now it shows us taking Steltz in the 2nd round..................way too high for him.


This mock is pretty terrible

No way Stewart falls to the late 2nd. And no way Flacco falls to the 4th. And Colt Brennan in the 3rd? Brian Brohm BEFORE Matt Ryan?? Otah in the 2nd? Dre Moore in the 4th? Dexter Jackson in the 7th? I could go on...I dont think this mock is even in the ballpark.

[WARHORSE]

Kelly had a terrible workout yesterday for scouts. Terrible.

Depending on who you believe he ran either a 4.68 or a 4.75 40, and looked bad in other drills.

Kelly tried to blame the surface, but the scouts say the surface is exactly what they use at the combine.

I think Kelly will be dropping. He's still a stud receiver, but no sense overpaying for him now.


His work out wasnt the worst of it. Game tape is the best evaluator.

But his complaining and blaming that ensued the workout is what really sucked. He did himself a disservice.

Who wants a player that doesnt take responsibility?:coffee:

Not me.

[jrelway]

Kelly had a terrible workout yesterday for scouts. Terrible.

Depending on who you believe he ran either a 4.68 or a 4.75 40, and looked bad in other drills.

Kelly tried to blame the surface, but the scouts say the surface is exactly what they use at the combine.

I think Kelly will be dropping. He's still a stud receiver, but no sense overpaying for him now.

i just read that article on his complaints and whining about the field.. i change my mind. sounds like another ashley lelie in the making.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Rumor is the Jets are looking to trade back between 7 and 15.

Wonder if the they would be interested in 12th overall?

We could then get a great shot at Dorsey or Ellis and we could also become part of a three way trade with Dallas or another team that can't please the Jets needs, but would allow them a shot at McFadden, move us back in the later 1st round and move the Jets to 12.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Jets | Team could look to trade down in draft
Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:00:10 -0700

Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Jets could look to trade down in the 2008 NFL Draft. The Jets currently hold the No. 6 overall pick in the draft. The team could look to trade down to between No. 7 and No. 15 overall. They have discussed a trade with at least one team in that range.

[lex]

Jets | Team could look to trade down in draft
Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:00:10 -0700

Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Jets could look to trade down in the 2008 NFL Draft. The Jets currently hold the No. 6 overall pick in the draft. The team could look to trade down to between No. 7 and No. 15 overall. They have discussed a trade with at least one team in that range.

I wonder if this is why the Roberston trade hasnt been finalized yet?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

My guess is that they like 2 players...McFadden and Gholston. Gholston could be gone and McFadden may drop. For THEM, 6 looks to be a bad spot. JMHO.

[Ziggy]

Jets | Team could look to trade down in draft
Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:00:10 -0700

Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Jets could look to trade down in the 2008 NFL Draft. The Jets currently hold the No. 6 overall pick in the draft. The team could look to trade down to between No. 7 and No. 15 overall. They have discussed a trade with at least one team in that range.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Broncos moving around in the draft as part of the Robertson deal. How about something like this:
Cowboys send 22nd,28th, and 3rd rd pick to Denver.
Denver sends 12th pick, 2nd round, Dallas's 3rd, 4th round, and 5th rounder to the Jets
Jets send 6th pick to Dallas, Dwayne Robertson to Denver

Denver would either pick 2 times in the late first round, or use one pick in the first and trade the second to get back picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. The Jets want to move down and aquire more picks. The Cowboys want a shot at McFadden. If he's still there at 6, Jerry Jones would probably part with 2 firsts and a 3rd for Mcfadden.

That leaves the Cowboys with a shot at McFadden, Denver with a DT and 2 1st round picks, and the Jets move down 6 spots and pick up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th.

Yeah, crazy, silly scenario, but what the heck else do we have to do between now and the draft? I'm getting bored!

[Lonestar]

Rumor is the Jets are looking to trade back between 7 and 15.

Wonder if the they would be interested in 12th overall?

We could then get a great shot at Dorsey or Ellis and we could also become part of a three way trade with Dallas or another team that can't please the Jets needs, but would allow them a shot at McFadden, move us back in the later 1st round and move the Jets to 12.

One would think that with the discussions we are supposedly having with them regarding Robertson this might have been talked about if true..

[Lonestar]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Broncos moving around in the draft as part of the Robertson deal. How about something like this:
Cowboys send 22nd,28th, and 3rd rd pick to Denver.
Denver sends 12th pick, 2nd round, Dallas's 3rd, 4th round, and 5th rounder to the Jets
Jets send 6th pick to Dallas, Dwayne Robertson to Denver

Denver would either pick 2 times in the late first round, or use one pick in the first and trade the second to get back picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. The Jets want to move down and aquire more picks. The Cowboys want a shot at McFadden. If he's still there at 6, Jerry Jones would probably part with 2 firsts and a 3rd for Mcfadden.

That leaves the Cowboys with a shot at McFadden, Denver with a DT and 2 1st round picks, and the Jets move down 6 spots and pick up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th.

Yeah, crazy, silly scenario, but what the heck else do we have to do between now and the draft? I'm getting bored!


Real creative but if I were NYJ I'd talk directly to DAL and trade Robertson to DEN as previously discussed.

Or just make the deal with DEN for Robertson and their first for our first and second or a boat load of the 4-7's..

The former seems to be the easiest way to go.. KISS

[Ziggy]

Real creative but if I were NYJ I'd talk directly to DAL and trade Robertson to DEN as previously discussed.

Or just make the deal with DEN for Robertson and their first for our first and second or a boat load of the 4-7's..

The former seems to be the easiest way to go.. KISS

That's if the Jets are willing to move all the way down to 22 from 6. Not likely, and what fun is keeping it simple? :beer:

[BOSSHOGG30]

That's if the Jets are willing to move all the way down to 22 from 6. Not likely, and what fun is keeping it simple? :beer:

They already came out and said they will be looking to trade down between 7 and 15...... 22 is too far back for them.

[TXBRONC]

Rumor is the Jets are looking to trade back between 7 and 15.

Wonder if the they would be interested in 12th overall?

We could then get a great shot at Dorsey or Ellis and we could also become part of a three way trade with Dallas or another team that can't please the Jets needs, but would allow them a shot at McFadden, move us back in the later 1st round and move the Jets to 12.

Since there range is between 7 and 15 that would put us right smack dab in middle of their wheelhouse. But since Denver also wants to trade back I don't think this is probable.

[underrated29]

We trade up with the jets and then back with the vikings?

Not going to happen. All this talk just seems like smoke screen. I dont have any idea which ones are the smokes and which are the real rumors. I will have to say that we are going to get robertson. That i know for sure.

The rest........

[WARHORSE]

Since there range is between 7 and 15 that would put us right smack dab in middle of their wheelhouse. But since Denver also wants to trade back I don't think this is probable.


I dont know about that. Im still wondering what all the 'financial struggles' are that the media is professing. I dont see the fact that Bowlen wants to be more frugal as 'struggling financially'. Although I understand the new CBA has made things a little more challenging for all the teams, I definitely dont see Denver as an organization thats struggling financially.

That being said, this is the same team that wanted to move up to the number 2 pick in the draft last year.........so does anyone think Denver is going to shy away from moving up if the cards are right? I dont. Not if they value one of the top 6 guys. I would declare that they are a team that would want that deal to be done BEFORE draft day though, because of the flexibility it gives them. In this draft, the Broncos are in a pretty good position at 12.

But all it takes is ONE team in the top five to make a blunder, and all heck can break loose.

This is also the same team that wanted to spend this years number one on moving back into the first round last year in order to take two defensive linemen.

We have Moss, Crowder and Thomas all drafted last year.

Three picks on Dline. That ability is being honed. Dont be surprised on draft day fellas, cause at this point, anything can happen with our top pick.

Anything.

[BroncoJoe]

Dont be surprised on draft day fellas, cause at this point, anything can happen with our top pick.

Anything.

Best part of your post.

[Brand]

All the scenarios involving the Jets, it pays to remember that the Broncos will likely give just a 5th for Robinson. If there is a trade to move up with the Jets, I would think that would be contingent on whether Dorsey or Ellis s is available at 6. That trade would not be a part of the Drob deal, I don't think....

I still like the idea that the Broncos keep 12 and take Williams with Law or Moore at 42. With Drob, that strengthens the Dline, and the Oline is also strengthened. Second day picks would be for back ups, a K, a P and someone to return kicks......

[TXBRONC]

I dont know about that. Im still wondering what all the 'financial struggles' are that the media is professing. I dont see the fact that Bowlen wants to be more frugal as 'struggling financially'. Although I understand the new CBA has made things a little more challenging for all the teams, I definitely dont see Denver as an organization thats struggling financially.

That being said, this is the same team that wanted to move up to the number 2 pick in the draft last year.........so does anyone think Denver is going to shy away from moving up if the cards are right? I dont. Not if they value one of the top 6 guys. I would declare that they are a team that would want that deal to be done BEFORE draft day though, because of the flexibility it gives them. In this draft, the Broncos are in a pretty good position at 12.

But all it takes is ONE team in the top five to make a blunder, and all heck can break loose.

This is also the same team that wanted to spend this years number one on moving back into the first round last year in order to take two defensive linemen.

We have Moss, Crowder and Thomas all drafted last year.

Three picks on Dline. That ability is being honed. Dont be surprised on draft day fellas, cause at this point, anything can happen with our top pick.

Anything.


I remember Denver having interest in trading up but obviously they weren't committed to impacting two drafts to get Calvin Johnson. Certainly if the right deal came along yes I'm sure the Broncos would move up into the top ten. However if the rumor is true they don't want have to pay a high amount of guaranteed money then trading up seems unlikely.

I also agree at this point anything can happen.

[BOSSHOGG30]

From PFT:

With the draft 15 days away, we’re hearing that plenty of teams want to trade down. The only problem? No one wants to trade up.

Whether it’s the result of a less-than-stellar group at the top of the board or the out-of-whack financial investment required to take a top-ten pick or the picks that need to be given up to make a move north, no one is interested.

It doesn’t mean a trade or two won’t happen. Indeed, this year might be the best year for someone to try to bust the existing trade chart, since the teams that would have to trade up would have leverage, given the number of teams that want to move down.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Thanks for the update BOSS.

If Denver does want to move down, they could probably get less than what we gave Jacksonville last year to move up from #21 to #17 which was a third and I believe a sixth. . . (could have been a fifth) -- which would absolutely suck since we're picking at #12. Hopefully the Texans will bail us out, or someone will fall to #12 that someone in the teens is just dying to have. Let's keep our fingers and toes crossed.

[WARHORSE]

Thanks for the update BOSS.

If Denver does want to move down, they could probably get less than what we gave Jacksonville last year to move up from #21 to #17 which was a third and I believe a sixth. . . (could have been a fifth) -- which would absolutely suck since we're picking at #12. Hopefully the Texans will bail us out, or someone will fall to #12 that someone in the teens is just dying to have. Let's keep our fingers and toes crossed.


Well, if thats true that not too many want to move up, I would say that Denver is in a very advantageous position at 12. If no one really wants to move up, then all the jockeying will be done in the mid-first round. That, imo, means the top runningbacks and OTs are going to be moved on if a team falls in love with a specific player. If we could be lucky enought to move down twice while not dropping further than four or five picks, I think that would be awesome.

[TXBRONC]

Well, if thats true that not too many want to move up, I would say that Denver is in a very advantageous position at 12. If no one really wants to move up, then all the jockeying will be done in the mid-first round. That, imo, means the top runningbacks and OTs are going to be moved on if a team falls in love with a specific player. If we could be lucky enought to move down twice while not dropping further than four or five picks, I think that would be awesome.

If the Broncos are interested in moving up into the top ten I can see them going any further than about the 8th overall pick. I don't think we could get into the top five without it severely impacting our draft.

[Drill-N-Fill]

If the Broncos are interested in moving up into the top ten I can see them going any further than about the 8th overall pick. I don't think we could get into the top five without it severely impacting our draft.

there is a rumor that the patsies will take ellis due to upcoming contracts of seymore and wilfork

[Lonestar]

there is a rumor that the patsies will take ellis due to upcoming contracts of seymore and wilfork

They always have someoen in the wings to take the DT spot .. One of the BIG reasons they have won so many games since 2000..

[Ziggy]

The Pats normally take the best player available and don't reach. However, the receiver they took out of FLorida a couple of years back was an exception, and they got burned. I think that they'll take the BPA unless they move down. If Ellis is there, look for him to be thier pick. If we are looking to move up to get Ellis, I think we'll have to go to the Jets pick at 6th, and he may not even be there at that point. This may be why the Robertson deal isn't supposed to get done until draft day. Part of the deal may include more of our picks, the 12th, and thier 6th. As with everything else 2 weeks before the draft, this is all speculation.

[TXBRONC]

there is a rumor that the patsies will take ellis due to upcoming contracts of seymore and wilfork

The last thing I heard is that the Patriots are more interested in adding Keith Rivers which makes a lot sense considering that all of their linebackers are all over 30 years of age.

[DenBronx]

The last thing I heard is that the Patriots are more interested in adding Keith Rivers which makes a lot sense considering that all of their linebackers are all over 30 years of age.

they were originally interested in lauranitis so rivers makes the most sense for them. you can almost guarantee that they will pick rivers.

[Lonestar]

The last thing I heard is that the Patriots are more interested in adding Keith Rivers which makes a lot sense considering that all of their linebackers are all over 30 years of age.

But there are a ton of LB available, and frankly if they are behind a great DL they are better just because.. Great DT are hard to come by..

[TXBRONC]

they were originally interested in lauranitis so rivers makes the most sense for them. you can almost guarantee that they will pick rivers.

I think Patriots see in Rivers a player who can get out in coverage or put a hand on the ground. Lauranitis wouldn't give them that kind of flexibility.

[TXBRONC]

But there are a ton of LB available, and frankly if they are behind a great DL they are better just because.. Great DT are hard to come by..

But their linebacking core is old by any standard. All four are 30 or older. This what I heard on NFL Network.

Two other things, Ellis is better suited for a 4-3 defense not 3-4 and in 3-4 defense you're always looking for linebackers (I heard that from a guest on the NFL Network who happens to be on a team that runs a 3-4.)

Also as you have stated teams rarely let go of great defensive linemen. If you think the Patriots are going let Wilfolk who happens to be one of the best NT in the game go you're more than likely mistaken.

And finally, while Patriots have some very good defensive lineman the strength of 3-4 defenses is NT and the linebackers.

[Lonestar]

But their linebacking core is old by any standard. All four are 30 or older. This what I heard on NFL Network.

Two other things, Ellis is better suited for a 4-3 defense not 3-4 and in 3-4 defense you're always looking for linebackers (I heard that from a guest on the NFL Network who happens to be on a team that runs a 3-4.)

Also as you have stated teams rarely let go of great defensive linemen. If you think the Patriots are going let Wilfolk who happens to be one of the best NT in the game go you're more than likely mistaken.

And finally, while Patriots have some very good defensive lineman the strength of 3-4 defenses is NT and the linebackers.


Your probably correct I forgot about them being 3-4 but they have allowed a couple to leave in the past becuase they had seymor in the wings..


LB are easier to come by than the great DT.. If for no other reason for trading purposes.. although that seems to be going by the wayside lately..

I'm pretty comfortabale saying who ever they take will help the team..

[TXBRONC]

Your probably correct I forgot about them being 3-4 but they have allowed a couple to leave in the past becuase they had seymor in the wings..


LB are easier to come by than the great DT.. If for no other reason for trading purposes.. although that seems to be going by the wayside lately..

I'm pretty comfortabale saying who ever they take will help the team..

Being that they have the 7th overall pick the likelihood of finding someone that can help them on either side of the ball is a fairly safe bet.

The only lineman I can think of consequence that New England let go was Ted Washington and that was because the had draft Vince Wilfolk.

It's really not me being correct so much as it's Mike Mayock who pointed out that their entire starting linebacking core is 30 or older. Also I just caught sight of something that says the Patriots are getting ready to release Roosevelt Colvin if they haven't already.

[Ziggy]

Also I just caught sight of something that says the Patriots are getting ready to release Roosevelt Colvin if they haven't already.

Link?

[TXBRONC]

Link?


Here you go.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/27/colvin_is_sent_packing/


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3266049

[Ziggy]

Thanks Txbronc, he's going to be a great pickup for someone.

[TXBRONC]

Thanks Txbronc, he's going to be a great pickup for someone.


No problem.

[Simple Jaded]

Tim Crowder--07......
Tony Scheffler--06......
Darrent Williams--05......
Clinton Poorti$--02......
Tony Jones and maybe Javon Walker......


Tatum Bell and Darius Watts--04......
Terry Freakin Pierce--03......
Paul (Who?) Toviessi--01......
Ian Gold and Kenoy Kennedy--2000......
Montae Reagor and Lennie Freakin Freidman--1999......
Eric Brown--1998......
Tory James--1996......

Trade the 12th pick for extra 2nd round picks? No thanks, I just can't pretend these results don't exist......

[haroldthebarrel]

if you are saying Ian Gold was a bust you are pretty insane. If he is, then the bust list is getting pretty big.
Tory James got injured here in Denver but has had a way better career than expected out of any player.
Ill even say that I personally consider Tatum Bell a disappointment but not a bust.

You are right that we havent been great in the second round. Until the Cutler draft we were actually even worse drafting in the middle rounds. But I dont understand why you have to exaggerate the arguments just to prove the point. That serves only to undermine your initial argument, but hey everyone has a different opinion.

[Lonestar]

if you are saying Ian Gold was a bust you are pretty insane. If he is, then the bust list is getting pretty big.
Tory James got injured here in Denver but has had a way better career than expected out of any player.
Ill even say that I personally consider Tatum Bell a disappointment but not a bust.

You are right that we havent been great in the second round. Until the Cutler draft we were actually even worse drafting in the middle rounds. But I dont understand why you have to exaggerate the arguments just to prove the point. That serves only to undermine your initial argument, but hey everyone has a different opinion.

IMO gold was a great LB till the knee injury. Then we replaced him, and his replacement was even better.. He should have never been brought back. He has been a total waste of cap space the past couple of years..

Bell was a total waste of time IMO, would have been a great 4th or 5th round pick up but as a #2 NADA.. HE was never going to be anything but a change of pace guy..

Mikey had visions of grandeur, another poorti$$..

I do not remember James getting hurt just that he could not crack the line up and was either traded or released.. But I could be wrong, seemed to me he never could get the job done but did well in OAK..

But that is something alot of of DAFTEES do, nothing here and well elsewhere.. Maybe it is the coaching here?

[Simple Jaded]

if you are saying Ian Gold was a bust you are pretty insane. If he is, then the bust list is getting pretty big.
Tory James got injured here in Denver but has had a way better career than expected out of any player.
Ill even say that I personally consider Tatum Bell a disappointment but not a bust.

You are right that we havent been great in the second round. Until the Cutler draft we were actually even worse drafting in the middle rounds. But I dont understand why you have to exaggerate the arguments just to prove the point. That serves only to undermine your initial argument, but hey everyone has a different opinion.

Gold played well on ST's, earned a starting job, but I mostly included him because I can't stand him, he's been overrated his entire career and should have never been brought back.

As for James, big deal he had a good career somewhere else, it was the Broncos that drafted him and got next to nothing out of him.

Bell was absolutely a waste of a 2nd round pick, he's strictly a COP back, he was not what the Broncos were expecting to get and one of the few RB's that fail to excel in Denver's Mythical system. But, at least the Broncos got something in return for him.

I'm not exaggerating anything, the Broncos absolutely suck at drafting, especially in the 2nd round.

Along with the 1st round picks, the players taken in the 2nd round should be the nucleus of this team, instead they're (at best) back ups for other teams......Darius Watts is a back up in the freakin Arena Football league (Maybe Mike Shanahan should try his hand at being a GM for Elway, he's got an eye for AFL talent)!

That's not an exaggeration at all, so hopefully that doesn't undermine my initial argument......

[nevcraw]

But that is something alot of of DAFTEES do, nothing here and well elsewhere.. Maybe it is the coaching here?

Really? Seems to me when guys dont pan out in DENVER they end up bagging groceries within a year or 2.
I would love to see who's on this list and what you consider a lot. I'm struggling to think of any legit names for this one..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I just hope to god Minnesota gives us our #3 back for a first round swap.

[Lonestar]

Really? Seems to me when guys dont pan out in DENVER they end up bagging groceries within a year or 2.
I would love to see who's on this list and what you consider a lot. I'm struggling to think of any legit names for this one..


I was trying to let the mikey is great fan club down gently..:D