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WARHORSE
03-21-2010, 03:12 AM
From the Post.

Klis.


ORLANDO, Fla. — Through an undistinguished quarterback named Charlie Whitehurst, the Broncos may have found the answer to their Brandon Marshall dilemma.
Sign him. And trade him to Seattle.
Whitehurst was the rarest of commodities this NFL offseason. Even though he has but one 13-yard completed pass in his NFL career, the San Diego Chargers' third-string quarterback not only held the clipboard long enough to became eligible for restricted free agency, he became the most sought-after RFA of the offseason.
So much for the golden age of quarterbacks.
New Orleans running back Mike Bell is a restricted free agent who recently signed an offer sheet with Philadelphia, but because he was an undrafted rookie when he joined the Broncos in 2006, there is no draft-pick compensation involved.

The Seattle Seahawks nabbed Whitehurst after surrendering the equivalent of two third-round picks to San Diego. One of those third-round picks was converted into a 20-spot swap in the second round.

The Seahawks couldn't go the offer- sheet route for Whitehurst, in part because they didn't have the required third-round pick in the 2010 draft. But Seattle would have balked even if it did have a third-rounder because that would have meant offering the unproven quarterback a contract prohibitive enough to dissuade the Chargers from matching.

Instead, Seattle worked out a more affordable two-year, $8 million contract — the going rate for top-end backup QBs — with Whitehurst. The Chargers agreed not to match in return for swapping out the second-round picks in 2010 and a third-round pick in 2011.

Instead of picking No. 60 overall in the second round this year, San Diego now has Seattle's No. 40 overall slot.

For all this to happen, the Chargers had to sign Whitehurst to his modest, one-year, $1.1 million tender. Only after Whitehurst was officially under contract could the Chargers trade him.

The Whitehurst deal is significant because the Broncos now understand how Seattle is approaching restricted free agency. The Seahawks, remember, flew Marshall, a restricted free agent, in by seaplane for a visit March 6.

Two weeks later, the Seahawks still have not submitted an offer sheet to the Broncos' star receiver. Their interest in Marshall remains. But because the Broncos slapped a first-round tender on the receiver, Seattle would have to surrender its No. 6 overall draft pick to get him.

Clearly, the Seahawks consider the No. 6 overall pick too expensive for Marshall, especially if they also have to appease him with a contract far greater than $8 million over two years. Try $50 million over five.

The Seahawks are players in the restricted free-agent market, though. Whitehurst proved that. And Seattle does have another first-round draft choice available, No. 14 overall, which it received from the Broncos in last year's draft.

The Broncos could take that pick for Marshall. Or perhaps the Broncos would take Seattle's No. 60 pick in the second round and one of their two fourth-round picks.

Not until Marshall is assured he's moving on will he agree to sign his one-year, $2.521 million tender with the Broncos.
He never signs it if it means returning to the Broncos without an ensuing trade.

Elam for Ring of Fame.
After 16 full seasons and 11 games into a 17th, Jason Elam was three, maybe four games away from becoming the sixth kicker in NFL history to reach 2,000 career points.

He was released by the Atlanta Falcons with five games remaining in the 2009 season and was 17 points shy of the coveted milestone.
During his final season with the Broncos in 2007, Elam admitted the 2,000- point club was one of his personal goals. And it's true old kickers with a proven history of accuracy under pressure never seem to retire.

Elam is exceptional away from the game, though, to become an exception. He has written three books, and a fourth is due out in October. In November, he's heading a group trip to Jerusalem.

Last time we checked, the NFL was playing in-season games in November, so that should tell us something about Elam's future plans. After Rod Smith is inducted into the Broncos' Ring of Fame in 2012, Elam should follow in 2014.


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14720182#ixzz0inTTpn24

Dirk
03-21-2010, 06:22 AM
At this point, if we don't get Seattle's #6 pick, I say the Broncos just need to ink a long term deal with BMarsh. Sit him down and lay it out with contractual stips about attitude and his perceived "toughness". Afterwhich give him a deal.

As far as Elam is concerned. He is indeed a beloved Bronco! I hated it when he left Denver. However, I am on the fence about giving him a place on the Ring. I want him there....and then I think, should he be there since he left?

That's a tough one for me. I guess I take a loyalty to the team a little to far. When a player leaves, even though he was awesome while here, I feel like he has deserted the team. Even if I understand you gotta go where the money is and look out for number 1.

dogfish
03-21-2010, 06:49 AM
atwater left-- sharpe left. . . .

Dirk
03-21-2010, 07:01 AM
Yeah I know. I am just on the fence...Sharpe came back though.

I'm not saying that I don't mind Elam being on there, I just am on the fence about it. I guess I am indifferent on the subject.

orangenblueinohio
03-21-2010, 08:26 AM
At this point, if we don't get Seattle's #6 pick, I say the Broncos just need to ink a long term deal with BMarsh. Sit him down and lay it out with contractual stips about attitude and his perceived "toughness". Afterwhich give him a deal.

As far as Elam is concerned. He is indeed a beloved Bronco! I hated it when he left Denver. However, I am on the fence about giving him a place on the Ring. I want him there....and then I think, should he be there since he left?

That's a tough one for me. I guess I take a loyalty to the team a little to far. When a player leaves, even though he was awesome while here, I feel like he has deserted the team. Even if I understand you gotta go where the money is and look out for number 1.

I agree he is worth the 6, but I'm afraid Seattle is going tohold out for less of a pick because of the rift between Mcd and Bmarsh. I wish there was some way they could work together, he is one of the best.

Oh by the way, Hi everyone. Came over from the Mane. Saw someone mention this place over there.

Dirk
03-21-2010, 09:29 AM
Welcome O&RinOhio!

HORSEPOWER 56
03-21-2010, 09:31 AM
As far as Elam is concerned. He is indeed a beloved Bronco! I hated it when he left Denver. However, I am on the fence about giving him a place on the Ring. I want him there....and then I think, should he be there since he left?

That's a tough one for me. I guess I take a loyalty to the team a little to far. When a player leaves, even though he was awesome while here, I feel like he has deserted the team. Even if I understand you gotta go where the money is and look out for number 1.

Elam didn't "leave" we cut him, remember...

broncobryce
03-21-2010, 09:46 AM
I thought he left because we were low-balling him and he wanted to finish his career in a dome. He thought it would extend his career. Obviously, not for long.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-21-2010, 10:03 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8579383

After a series of contract proposals were exchanged this week, the Broncos and kicker Jason Elam have decided to at least temporarily part ways

Elam will visit the Atlanta Falcons next week. There's a good chance Elam will know Thursday night where he will be employed in 2008.

"I am going to be taking a trip to Atlanta," Elam said.

Although the Broncos and Elam have been unable to close a $1 million-plus gap in guaranteed money for the 2008 season, talks have been amicable. The Broncos want Elam back but they need money for other possible moves and the upcoming draft.

Elam understands.

If the Broncos don't budge, the Falcons would be Elam's next choice because he grew up in the Atlanta suburbs. Other teams have also expressed serious interest in Elam.

Elam has been the Broncos' kicker since 1993. His 395 career field goals rank fifth on the NFL's all-time list and his 1,786 points are sixth. He has previously stated a goal of 2,000 career points, which would require at least two more seasons.

So who would kick for the Broncos if Elam leaves? Matt Prater handled kickoffs in the final two games, but the Broncos will bring in competition.

The pickings, however, may be slim. Olindo Mare, 35, is the most recognizable remaining free agent and there doesn't appear to be another Mason Crosby in this year's draft, although the Broncos could use a late-round pick on the likes of Wisconsin's Taylor Mehloff, Louisville's Art Carmody or St. Xavier's Shane Longest.

Elam is thankful to be in this position. He was with a Holy Land tour group in Jerusalem last week when, a mile away, an Arab terrorist murdered eight students at a school.

"We could hear the pop," Elam said. "It frightens you a little bit, but every single time I've been over there, something has happened. Peace just doesn't exist there."

topscribe
03-21-2010, 10:19 AM
So Klis is apparently sitting around thinking of all the ways to get rid of Marshall.

Ah well . . . 'tis offseason. Writing assignment due . . . gotta think of something . . .

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DenBronx
03-21-2010, 01:34 PM
a very late 2nd round pick and a crappy fourth for marshall?

klis has lost his marbles.

Lonestar
03-21-2010, 02:04 PM
BM needs to go, he has to much baggage in DEN.

He will never sign a contract in DEN that will safe guard the TEAM.

As an owner there is no way I'd give him guaranteed money.

His lack of being able to become a TEAM player, once he has the money would scare the hell out of me. He would not have any reason NOT to continue being himself. A ME player.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

UnderArmour
03-21-2010, 02:15 PM
BM needs to go, he has to much baggage in DEN.

He will never sign a contract in DEN that will safe guard the TEAM.

As an owner there is no way I'd give him guaranteed money.

His lack of being able to become a TEAM player, once he has the money would scare the hell out of me. He would not have any reason NOT to continue being himself. A ME player.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

See, I think it's the opposite. I think once he gets his pay day, he'll refocus his efforts on playing and one day becoming a HOF receiver. He certainly does have that kind of talent and his production has shown that. No way I want to let Marshall go and he's started to take the best route he can which is to just shut up. Hopefully the lack of offer sheets has humbled Marshall enough to get his head on straight.

Ravage!!!
03-21-2010, 02:46 PM
I thought he left because we were low-balling him and he wanted to finish his career in a dome. He thought it would extend his career. Obviously, not for long.

we didn't "lowball" Elam :laugh:

Ravage!!!
03-21-2010, 02:48 PM
yeah.. he won't sign for the TEAM :lol: Unlike all the other players in the NFL. Hard to believe he wants the best contract for himself. Unbelievable.

Lonestar
03-22-2010, 10:01 AM
See, I think it's the opposite. I think once he gets his pay day, he'll refocus his efforts on playing and one day becoming a HOF receiver. He certainly does have that kind of talent and his production has shown that. No way I want to let Marshall go and he's started to take the best route he can which is to just shut up. Hopefully the lack of offer sheets has humbled Marshall enough to get his head on straight.

We have all seen the apologies left and right from BM.

He knows he has to do this or that. He keeps his nose clean and then whaam he does another incredibly stupid thing.

I understand he wants to be paid, he is a force.

BUT so far he has kept himself under control because he knows he had to to get the money. ONCE that motivation is gone and he has secure guaranteed money there is nothing to keep him in check. Only his maturity and frankly that has shown up way to many times in a negative way to allow me to believe he will become any thing but disruptive to the TEAM.

If SEA had not seen something he would have been a Hawk by now.

This kid and I mean that literally will only have his ego feed by a huge contract.

Last year in TC we all saw how immature he was.

The season ending game? Does anyone here realy believe that he would have gutted it out when the weather was cold and declined to practice, played on a tweaked hammy or been on time for his treatment if he had GUARANTEED money in hand.

You will never convinced me that getting his 100 catches and invite to the pro bowl hadf nothing to do with any of his actions those last few weeks.

Giving him a secure boat load of money will not make him a better player. IMHO it is foolish to think otherwise.

If he does not get a tendered offer, great that means he gets to earn his money the old fashioned way, by playing for it. The worst case senario is they franchise him when a new CBA is in place but till then he is a RFA and trade bait. By then he will have exceeded the odds of him playing more than 4.5 years. Maybe by then he will have grown up and be worth taking a chance on with guaranteed money.

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arapaho2
03-22-2010, 10:31 AM
Elam didn't "leave" we cut him, remember...


we didnt cut him...he was a FA and went for the big money instead of showing loyalty to the team he playeed for his whole career

arapaho2
03-22-2010, 10:45 AM
We have all seen the apologies left and right from BM.

He knows he has to do this or that. He keeps his nose clean and then whaam he does another incredibly stupid thing.

I understand he wants to be paid, he is a force.

BUT so far he has kept himself under control because he knows he had to to get the money. ONCE that motivation is gone and he has secure guaranteed money there is nothing to keep him in check. Only his maturity and frankly that has shown up way to many times in a negative way to allow me to believe he will become any thing but disruptive to the TEAM.

If SEA had not seen something he would have been a Hawk by now.

This kid and I mean that literally will only have his ego feed by a huge contract.

Last year in TC we all saw how immature he was.

The season ending game? Does anyone here realy believe that he would have gutted it out when the weather was cold and declined to practice, played on a tweaked hammy or been on time for his treatment if he had GUARANTEED money in hand.

You will never convinced me that getting his 100 catches and invite to the pro bowl hadf nothing to do with any of his actions those last few weeks.

Giving him a secure boat load of money will not make him a better player. IMHO it is foolish to think otherwise.

If he does not get a tendered offer, great that means he gets to earn his money the old fashioned way, by playing for it. The worst case senario is they franchise him when a new CBA is in place but till then he is a RFA and trade bait. By then he will have exceeded the odds of him playing more than 4.5 years. Maybe by then he will have grown up and be worth taking a chance on with guaranteed money.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel


what incredibly stupid thing has he done lately??...the incident that he went to trial for happened in march /april 2008 with his former GF who has shown to be a pyscotic moneygrubber...he was found not guilty of it..for two years hes been trouble free !!!

your no doctor nor are you a team insider to know what happened in practise...ive had colds..or a minor illness where the cold air really hurt my lungs...and its been gone in a day or two....so you cant just say he wussed out...you dont know its only your speculation..no prooof

and as your not a doctor..nor a insider you havent a clue what went down in week 17....MCD isnt exactly a beacon of honesty is he...he has embellished, stretched or flat out lied numerous times as our coach

what i know of marshall is a young man..who made mistakes..but has proven to be one of the best wrs in the game...i seen a young man who would take a month off, then work out with cutler and scheffler until spring workouts with the team...i seen a player who played with a potentionaly career ending injury all season because bronco doctors either lied or incompently misdiagnosed the severity of his hip

we just see two differant people

Lonestar
03-22-2010, 10:56 AM
we just see two differant people

Yep I agree with this part of your post.

Ravage!!!
03-22-2010, 11:28 AM
we didnt cut him...he was a FA and went for the big money instead of showing loyalty to the team he playeed for his whole career

We offered him a contract, he took the bigger money. Thats not cutting him.

Also, with all do respect..... this "loyalty" thing, is over-hyped. Why should he take less money than he can get from someone else?? For loyalty? Really? Teams don't show loyalty when they cut you the moment you get hurt. They don't show loyalty when you catch 100+ balls a season 3 years in a row.

Why should Elam have taken less money and HE be the one to 'give' Denver and show loyalty by literally taking money out of his pocket?

arapaho2
03-22-2010, 05:55 PM
We offered him a contract, he took the bigger money. Thats not cutting him.

Also, with all do respect..... this "loyalty" thing, is over-hyped. Why should he take less money than he can get from someone else?? For loyalty? Really? Teams don't show loyalty when they cut you the moment you get hurt. They don't show loyalty when you catch 100+ balls a season 3 years in a row.

Why should Elam have taken less money and HE be the one to 'give' Denver and show loyalty by literally taking money out of his pocket?

true...but my contention was the point we cut him...we didnt..we offered him a good deal of money..he chose the bigger bucks to close out his career

Lancane
03-22-2010, 06:59 PM
what incredibly stupid thing has he done lately??...the incident that he went to trial for happened in march /april 2008 with his former GF who has shown to be a pyscotic moneygrubber...he was found not guilty of it..for two years hes been trouble free !!!

your no doctor nor are you a team insider to know what happened in practise...ive had colds..or a minor illness where the cold air really hurt my lungs...and its been gone in a day or two....so you cant just say he wussed out...you dont know its only your speculation..no prooof

and as your not a doctor..nor a insider you havent a clue what went down in week 17....MCD isnt exactly a beacon of honesty is he...he has embellished, stretched or flat out lied numerous times as our coach

what i know of marshall is a young man..who made mistakes..but has proven to be one of the best wrs in the game...i seen a young man who would take a month off, then work out with cutler and scheffler until spring workouts with the team...i seen a player who played with a potentionaly career ending injury all season because bronco doctors either lied or incompently misdiagnosed the severity of his hip

we just see two differant people

Excellent post... :congrats:

CoachChaz
03-23-2010, 07:25 AM
what incredibly stupid thing has he done lately??...the incident that he went to trial for happened in march /april 2008 with his former GF who has shown to be a pyscotic moneygrubber...he was found not guilty of it..for two years hes been trouble free !!!

your no doctor nor are you a team insider to know what happened in practise...ive had colds..or a minor illness where the cold air really hurt my lungs...and its been gone in a day or two....so you cant just say he wussed out...you dont know its only your speculation..no prooof

and as your not a doctor..nor a insider you havent a clue what went down in week 17....MCD isnt exactly a beacon of honesty is he...he has embellished, stretched or flat out lied numerous times as our coach

what i know of marshall is a young man..who made mistakes..but has proven to be one of the best wrs in the game...i seen a young man who would take a month off, then work out with cutler and scheffler until spring workouts with the team...i seen a player who played with a potentionaly career ending injury all season because bronco doctors either lied or incompently misdiagnosed the severity of his hip

we just see two differant people

Wow...after drinking the Kool-Aid in this post, I too have come to the realization that brandon Marshall is my Lord and Savior. Thanks for the epiphany. i totally missed how the whole woman-slapping, tv punching, football punting, hamstring stops working under 40 degrees, was just a ploy to divert attention from his holiness.

Lonestar
03-23-2010, 09:50 AM
Coach we are in the minority believing that BM may never be great in DEN that he does indeed need a change of scenery.

We seem to think giving him money up front will do nothing to stop impluse control issuses he has shown since college.
They feel that once he has his money he will straighten up and fly right.

I believe that the only thing keeping him relativey in control is the desire for a big payday. Once that is done then he will revert back to his juvennile behaviour.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Ravage!!!
03-23-2010, 10:05 AM
I remember Micheal Irvin saying the same thing about Drew Brees. That he was just playing "hard" for the money (in his last year in SD). To get the big contract. He didn't believe Brees was really that good, he just wanted the money.

Yeah.. these athletes haven't been competing their entire lives. Its not like they even know what working hard without pay is like, or to play hard on the field because that's how you play football. Hard to imagine a great athlete playing to win the games. :coffee:

T.K.O.
03-23-2010, 10:06 AM
actually we offered elam 3 yrs 7 mil and atlanta offered 4 yrs 9 mil.
we basically offered the same per year (even a bit higher),but jason saw the writing on the wall with prater coming in and he also grew up near atlanta and knew it was a good chance to move back home and still get paid.
he has also said recently that he wont be playing in 2010....he was CUT last year with 5 games to go in the reg season by atlanta.
i was kinda hoping he would do a 1 day signing with the broncos and retire in the orange and blue....he probably will at some point

CoachChaz
03-23-2010, 12:14 PM
I remember Micheal Irvin saying the same thing about Drew Brees. That he was just playing "hard" for the money (in his last year in SD). To get the big contract. He didn't believe Brees was really that good, he just wanted the money.

Yeah.. these athletes haven't been competing their entire lives. Its not like they even know what working hard without pay is like, or to play hard on the field because that's how you play football. Hard to imagine a great athlete playing to win the games. :coffee:

Sorry. I'm sure you made a very good point as you usually do, but in this case...I had to stop after reading the highlighted material.

CoachChaz
03-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Coach we are in the minority believing that BM may never be great in DEN that he does indeed need a change of scenery.

We seem to think giving him money up front will do nothing to stop impluse control issuses he has shown since college.
They feel that once he has his money he will straighten up and fly right.

I believe that the only thing keeping him relativey in control is the desire for a big payday. Once that is done then he will revert back to his juvennile behaviour.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Yes and no. I dont know that Marshall will be any better or worse once he gets his payday. My only problem with him is that one small infraction and boom...he's out for 8 games...maybe more. I also have a hard time paying 10 million to a guy that cant catch with his back to the QB and gets 100 catches on the strength of 4 or 5 big games...that we lose half of anyway.

I believe he is a very good possession receiver playing at the peak of his ability and worthy of 6-7 mil. But if he insists on 9-10 mil a year OR if another team over-values him (which none have yet), then he can leave.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Sorry. I'm sure you made a very good point as you usually do, but in this case...I had to stop after reading the highlighted material.

well... there are certain types (not you) that look at everything from the perspective that "its all about the money." Micheal Irving (whom I despise, btw)... is a perfect example. He didn't believe Brees could really play good football, but was purely playing well so he could "cash in" on his up coming contract.

That seems to be the expressed opinion about Marshall. Lets forget that he's done this for 3 years in a row, and that he came back on to the field last year and played through injury, but lets say he's only doing this to "get his pay" and not compete. The exaggeration of the hamstring thing, is absurd around here. After all, he's only looking for the pay and not looking to compete. I mean, he's the only player that wants to get compensated, and can't possibly be paid AND compete.

So I see parallels.

Ravage!!!
03-23-2010, 12:24 PM
Yes and no. I dont know that Marshall will be any better or worse once he gets his payday. My only problem with him is that one small infraction and boom...he's out for 8 games...maybe more. I also have a hard time paying 10 million to a guy that cant catch with his back to the QB and gets 100 catches on the strength of 4 or 5 big games...that we lose half of anyway.

I believe he is a very good possession receiver playing at the peak of his ability and worthy of 6-7 mil. But if he insists on 9-10 mil a year OR if another team over-values him (which none have yet), then he can leave.

I've heard that excuse, and it doesn't hold up.... unless you think that Johnson and Fitz are purely possession receivers as well.

CoachChaz
03-23-2010, 12:25 PM
well... there are certain types (not you) that look at everything from the perspective that "its all about the money." Micheal Irving (whom I despise, btw)... is a perfect example. He didn't believe Brees could really play good football, but was purely playing well so he could "cash in" on his up coming contract.

That seems to be the expressed opinion about Marshall. Lets forget that he's done this for 3 years in a row, and that he came back on to the field last year and played through injury, but lets say he's only doing this to "get his pay" and not compete. The exaggeration of the hamstring thing, is absurd around here. After all, he's only looking for the pay and not looking to compete. I mean, he's the only player that wants to get compensated, and can't possibly be paid AND compete.

So I see parallels.

I see the hamstring thing as a maturity issue. Maybe it was sore...maybe it wasnt. I dont know. Seems to me like it's a young guy at the end of the season. he's tired and just wants a day off. So maybe he milks the injury to get out of practice. Just a guy being young. Yeah, there were probably guys with worse injuries out there and yeah, he probably could have shown a little more testicular fortitude and sucked it up in a week before a big game. but again...he acted immature. it happens and hopefully he learns from it.

but I dont think he's doing anything he's currently doing purely for the money