Clayton's take on the Marshall situation.3/17/10

[Ravage!!!]

I just saw this on another message board, so I don't have a link

"Marshall update: With the New York Jets unlikely to jump in on a possible Brandon Marshall trade, the Seahawks remain the main team interested in the wideout, but Seattle will most likely wait until the second round of the draft to acquire him.

The Seahawks don't want to surrender a first-round pick. They would like to fill other needs with the No.6 and No.14 picks. The Broncos have the leverage now because they can look for another team to offer a first-rounder. If the first round of the draft passes without a Marshall trade, however, the leverage would shift to the Seahawks or other interested teams."

-------------------------------------

I have to say, that this is how I see the situation. I've said that I dont believe we get a 1st rounder, and will probably end up with Seattle's 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year (or some kind of compensation.. although I don't think it will be another 2nd).

I know this isn't a fact, by any means, but I do believe this to be a very real scenario.

[T.K.O.]

if we dont get a 1st,there would be no hurry to trade him.
i dont see the team going into "panic" mode after the 1st round.
we would have more leverage with marshall at that point ,as he would know that no teams are willing to give up a first.therefore he would be far more likely to get serious about having his agent getting a contract done with the broncos.he does'nt want to play for another year at 2-3 mil
i would almost bet that he would sign a 4 year 7-9 mil/yr contract w/o big up front money at that point

[Mike]

I would be pissed at the team if they accepted that deal. I expect Marshall to be a Bronco come September.

[Ravage!!!]

if we dont get a 1st,there would be no hurry to trade him.
i dont see the team going into "panic" mode after the 1st round.
we would have more leverage with marshall at that point ,as he would know that no teams are willing to give up a first.therefore he would be far more likely to get serious about having his agent getting a contract done with the broncos.he does'nt want to play for another year at 2-3 mil
i would almost bet that he would sign a 4 year 7-9 mil/yr contract w/o big up front money at that point

But he doesn't want to play in Denver, and Denver doesn't want him here. This, I truly believe, is the difference. The Broncos aren't trying to get a deal done. They aren't wanting to work out a long-term contract. They aren't going to try and corner him into a deal. I truly believe McD wants him out, and I think everyone knows this.

[topscribe]

Nice find.

If Denver doesn't get a 1st rounder, then they ought to keep Marshall, IMO.
Honestly, I don't see even a single 1st rounder whose talent I would rather have
than Marshall's, especially since Marshall's is proven.

I certainly do not see any combination of 2nd's and 3rd's I would rather have
than Marshall.

IMO, the Broncos would be fools for letting him go for less than Seattle's 6th
selection, and maybe even fools for accepting that. Players with Marshall's
talent do not come around all that often . . .

-----

[Broncolingus]

I agree...

High-Mid 1st (or nothing) for BM...

[Nomad]

I would be pissed at the team if they accepted that deal. I expect Marshall to be a Bronco come September.

Schefter just moments ago on EPSN ,said no way BRONCOS would take Seattle's 2nd but if he's wrong I'd be pissed at McDaniels as well.


Seattle's going OT with the 6th and Spiller with the 14th!! JMO!!

[T.K.O.]

But he doesn't want to play in Denver, and Denver doesn't want him here. This, I truly believe, is the difference. The Broncos aren't trying to get a deal done. They aren't wanting to work out a long-term contract. They aren't going to try and corner him into a deal. I truly believe McD wants him out, and I think everyone knows this.

you are assuming that what both marshall and mcD have said about it is pure B.S.
because marshall admitted (again) that he acted un-professionally,and would leave the contract stuff up to the team and his agent,
and mcD said "it was behind them"
i realize we have to take all this with a grain of salt,but the fact is marshall is our best offensive weapon and bowlen said he wants him back.
mcd just spent a year trying to bury the cutler trade,i doubt he's willing to go through that again without getting the compensation he(and the entire org.)thinks is justified.

[underrated29]

We offered him a contract last year...Besides, brandon has to sign his 1 year tender x amount of days before the draft. If he does not we can not trade him, from what I understand. Then we just give him the Julius Peppers treatment and make him either sit out the season, or play for us....

He is way to valuable to let go for a 2nd...


Roy williams was a 1st and 3rd. He had no baggage, but he also sucks compared to brandon.

1st or he stays.

[Ravage!!!]

Hey.. I KNOW that Marshall is our best weapon and our most gifted athlete. I KNOW that there isn't a player I would draft ahead of him after seeing his talent on the field. I KNOW he's WORTH the 6th pick, if not more. I know that our team is a LOT better with him on it, than with him off of it.

But thats not what I'm basing my 'guess' on. I just don't think there is a way in hades that McD coaches Marshall next season. I think the incident at the end of the season is bigger than some give it credit for, and I'm talking between coach and player. Thats a big thing for several reasons.

Not only does Marshall not trust the coach because of it, but the coach knows he's constantly going to be questioned about Marshall. Every press conference, after every practice, after every game. If he disciplines Marshall again, thats going to cause even more turmoil. If he doesn't get rid of Marshall, people will second guess his decision last year when NOT making the playoffs by sitting him.

Then there is the stress between he and the player. Anyone that believes the relationship between McD and Marshall isn't strained is being intentionally blind. If you think everything is behind them, then I think its hopeful wishing.

Marshall is the most dynamic player on the team. I obviously can't say that its a FACT that Marshall is gone, I just feel that I would be very very VERY surprised to find him on our team next season. McD is NOT going to pay Marshall big money. Marshall deserves big money, and is NOT going to be happy after Bowlen told him he had to 'prove' himself again last season. How's that going to sit this year? Keep forcing players to pay for a lot less then they are worth, and tell yourself that the rest of the players in the locker room don't see it.

Imo... something either has to come to a head, or someone is removed from the equation. I think the easiest path is remove someone from the equation, and I think thats what will happen. I think the other GMs and coaches know this.

Remember.. these other GMs aren't slouches. THey've been around the NFL. They know the signs, they know what goes on teams and relationships with players. THey know more than we do. They are lawyers that have spent their years in debate and playing the game of bluffs and negotiations. They aren't biting on McD's "if we don't get a first, we'll just keep him" bluff.

[DenBronx]

I really hope we keep Marshall. I think he is worth a new contract and should stay in Denver. He already said he wants to stay here. C'mon Josh put your ego aside and think about what's best for the team for once.

[claymore]

On top of that Marshall can make it miserable by not signing his tender.

[rationalfan]

brandon marshall will be on the broncos roster when the season starts.

[roomemp]

On top of that Marshall can make it miserable by not signing his tender.

Miserable for himself maybe. Brandon won't hurt his value again like he did last year.

[Traveler]

On top of that Marshall can make it miserable by not signing his tender.

...further showing his immaturity and proving once again his word rings hollow.

[Lancane]

I just saw this on another message board, so I don't have a link

"Marshall update: With the New York Jets unlikely to jump in on a possible Brandon Marshall trade, the Seahawks remain the main team interested in the wideout, but Seattle will most likely wait until the second round of the draft to acquire him.

The Seahawks don't want to surrender a first-round pick. They would like to fill other needs with the No.6 and No.14 picks. The Broncos have the leverage now because they can look for another team to offer a first-rounder. If the first round of the draft passes without a Marshall trade, however, the leverage would shift to the Seahawks or other interested teams."

-------------------------------------

I have to say, that this is how I see the situation. I've said that I dont believe we get a 1st rounder, and will probably end up with Seattle's 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year (or some kind of compensation.. although I don't think it will be another 2nd).

I know this isn't a fact, by any means, but I do believe this to be a very real scenario.

Actually, Clayton is a moron then...because the Buccaneers would have the advantage having two second round picks. But, I think Denver keeps him if they do not receive comparable compensation for him.

[BroncoWave]

I really hope we keep Marshall. I think he is worth a new contract and should stay in Denver. He already said he wants to stay here. C'mon Josh put your ego aside and think about what's best for the team for once.

:lol::lol::lol: Posts like this are so comical. Yeah, I'm sure he's NEVER done what he felt was best for the team. :lol::lol::lol:

[Nomad]

...further showing his immaturity and proving once again his word rings hollow.

I agree but to some it's only Mcdaniels fault!! Right now if Marshall was really trying to mend fences then he'd show up at Dove Valley Friday with Orton and then I may begin to jump on his bandwagon!!

[claymore]

Miserable for himself maybe. Brandon won't hurt his value again like he did last year.


...further showing his immaturity and proving once again his word rings hollow.

Yes and no. depends on if Marshall wants out of Denver or not.

As for his word, I dont believe anything these guys say publicly.

[underrated29]

I agree but to some it's only Mcdaniels fault!! Right now if Marshall was really trying to mend fences then he'd show up at Dove Valley Friday with Orton and then I may begin to jump on his bandwagon!!


and then if he gets hurt, tears his hammy or anything else. No one is going to offer him a contract with jack squat! It would be monumentally stupid for him to do so. And while everything thinks he is a headcase and a dumbass, I do not think he is. I think he is immature and lacks some common sense sometimes, but head case and idiot-not so much....

I would never show up without a contract. Its just bad business sense. And if the coaches and the rest of the NFL say its a business, then the players should think that way too. (what he needs to do is sign his stupid tender, then show up and show he is legit). But that would be mature....

[T.K.O.]

there are many "strained " relationships that continue to co-exist.
and the relationship was "strained" last season when marshall had his best season as a pro.
so i don't think it's impossible for the 2 men to put the benching incident behind them and act like professional's for another season.
i don't think its a bluff that the broncos (owner pat bowlen included) will not take less than a first (or compensation deemed of the same value)for marshall.
when all is said and done he IS under contract and the broncos hold the cards.
it's all speculation at this point but the fact is if no team offers a 1st marshall will more than likely be a bronco.and the team is smart enough to know that giving him a reasonable contract at that point would be best for both sides.
or they'll try and force marshall to spend yet another season "showing off" his skills for potential suitors.

[Nomad]

and then if he gets hurt, tears his hammy or anything else. No one is going to offer him a contract with jack squat! It would be monumentally stupid for him to do so. And while everything thinks he is a headcase and a dumbass, I do not think he is. I think he is immature and lacks some common sense sometimes, but head case and idiot-not so much....

I would never show up without a contract. Its just bad business sense. And if the coaches and the rest of the NFL say its a business, then the players should think that way too. (what he needs to do is sign his stupid tender, then show up and show he is legit). But that would be mature....

I agree in a way, but he could show his face, attempt to be there, limit yourself to avoid the possibility of injuries (only read the damn playbook ), but in Marshall's case (which is a special one) you say you want to be here and this would give him more ammo with the public if he would show up because he would be trying.

[T.K.O.]

I agree in a way, but he could show his face, attempt to be there, limit yourself to avoid the possibility of injuries (only read the damn playbook ), but in Marshall's case (which is a special one) you say you want to be here and this would give him more ammo with the public if he would show up because he would be trying.

i'm sure the pressure from the nflpa is'nt helping the situation with any of the rfa's .
it's kinda like crossing a picket line in the eyes of many.

[Lancane]

I agree in a way, but he could show his face, attempt to be there, limit yourself to avoid the possibility of injuries (only read the damn playbook ), but in Marshall's case (which is a special one) you say you want to be here and this would give him more ammo with the public if he would show up because he would be trying.

Nomad, let's not forget that he as well as Dumvervil and a whole ****load of players are not going to their OTA's, some because of the RFA rules in an uncapped year, much like a protest that the league should have gotten the deal done on the CBA...others want to workout privately elsewhere whether the CBA was a done deal or not simply to work with specific trainers and so forth. I guess we should call Dumervil immature? Yeah, Brandon showing up at OTA's may have changed some of the bad opinions of him, but it really is not that big of a deal. I would like to see the damn organization make an effort and sign him to a contract he deserves, all he wants is upfront money which is quite normal, sometimes a sign of friendship should come from the front office...not from a player. He may feel that he is unwanted, but fans don't care, obviously.

[underrated29]

DJ did not show up today.

[topscribe]

Hey.. I KNOW that Marshall is our best weapon and our most gifted athlete. I KNOW that there isn't a player I would draft ahead of him after seeing his talent on the field. I KNOW he's WORTH the 6th pick, if not more. I know that our team is a LOT better with him on it, than with him off of it.

But thats not what I'm basing my 'guess' on. I just don't think there is a way in hades that McD coaches Marshall next season. I think the incident at the end of the season is bigger than some give it credit for, and I'm talking between coach and player. Thats a big thing for several reasons.

Not only does Marshall not trust the coach because of it, but the coach knows he's constantly going to be questioned about Marshall. Every press conference, after every practice, after every game. If he disciplines Marshall again, thats going to cause even more turmoil. If he doesn't get rid of Marshall, people will second guess his decision last year when NOT making the playoffs by sitting him.

Then there is the stress between he and the player. Anyone that believes the relationship between McD and Marshall isn't strained is being intentionally blind. If you think everything is behind them, then I think its hopeful wishing.

Marshall is the most dynamic player on the team. I obviously can't say that its a FACT that Marshall is gone, I just feel that I would be very very VERY surprised to find him on our team next season. McD is NOT going to pay Marshall big money. Marshall deserves big money, and is NOT going to be happy after Bowlen told him he had to 'prove' himself again last season. How's that going to sit this year? Keep forcing players to pay for a lot less then they are worth, and tell yourself that the rest of the players in the locker room don't see it.

Imo... something either has to come to a head, or someone is removed from the equation. I think the easiest path is remove someone from the equation, and I think thats what will happen. I think the other GMs and coaches know this.

Remember.. these other GMs aren't slouches. THey've been around the NFL. They know the signs, they know what goes on teams and relationships with players. THey know more than we do. They are lawyers that have spent their years in debate and playing the game of bluffs and negotiations. They aren't biting on McD's "if we don't get a first, we'll just keep him" bluff.

Sometimes, Rav, it isn't a bluff. Sometimes, the the other side has the cards.
And the Broncos have the cards. All of them.

I believe I would just do an Andy Reid: You're not going anywhere. You will
take the $7 million and play . . . or you will sit and watch the games.

And when other teams call, "Thanks for the call. Hope all is well. Tell everyone
hello for me."

And that would be that.

I would bet the house that Marshall would then play in an Orange&Blue uniform.

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

Jesus, we would be getting absolutely fleeced in that trade.

I always thought you traded star players to improve the team.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

After the season, Coach McD was ask about the problems with Brandon, and Coach McD replied "that is in the past", and after the season, Brandon has stated he would like to stay with the Broncos. Possibly, rather than people just assuming both are just saying this, it just MIGHT be the truth.

[topscribe]

Actually, Clayton is a moron then...

Get to know 'em, don't you? :coffee:

-----

[Lancane]

Sometimes, Rav, it isn't a bluff. Sometimes, the the other side has the cards.
And the Broncos have the cards. All of them.

I believe I would just do an Andy Reid: You're not going anywhere. You will
take the $7 million and play . . . or you will sit and watch the games.

And when other teams call, "Thanks for the call. Hope all is well. Tell everyone
hello for me."

And that would be that.

I would bet the house that Marshall would then play in an Orange&Blue uniform.

-----

I disagree Top, Denver holds only half of the cards...they could tell him that he is going nowhere and will play. But talking to grown men like that in this day and age is not wise. Do you remember why I quit coaching? We discussed it quite oftenly, it was because I was more old school and did not fit into the 'new mold', babying the players and letting them do what they wanted. The NFL is reflective of that, if not we would not have so many crying out to the public or doing the things they do. Coaches like Parcells', Shwartz, Coughlin, Reeves, Lombardi and so on have really been out of demand since the early 90's, they became more like Jimmy Johnson and the new styles found success. And the old tough nosed coaches found little, look at Parcells' his last few coaching stints, even Belichick is more on form with the new rather then the old. It could explain why Andy Reid has only found minor success and never truly made it to his goal, or it could be his bad judgements with personnel, either or.

Point is that McDaniels could say that, but then they get one year of production and he is gone, they can slap the franchise tag on him...only gives them two years, but the more and more you pull that, the less and less others will want to play for that organization. Look at Carolina, no one wants to really play for them right now...give those that got their money. Top you grew up in the days when football was not the *****whipped version it is now, back when blood covered the uniforms and only the toughest SOBs' won the day and the coaches reflected that, it was how I was coached, but it was on the decline even then.

[Lancane]

Get to know 'em, don't you? :coffee:

-----

And dare I ask what exactly do you mean by that? Or is this the time we start are annual argument, you and I?

;)

[WARHORSE]

Since when did anyone listen to John Clayton?

The man talks out of his butt about things he doesnt know about.......like football.


Seattle doesnt have to trade us the 6th or the 14th come draft day.

But if they think we're going to send Brandon over there for their second rounder, they got another thing coming. Only way that happens is if theres a first rounder in 2011 attached to it.

All this talk about Brandon not playing here next year is understandable but in reality, if no one offers a first or a package acceptable to Denver, he will play here and he will play well.


Brandon is learning right now what his petulant behavior costs: Millions.

Should no one sign him, he will do one of two things: Sign with Denver, or play for the tender.

If there is even a HINT of unhappiness, discontent, or behavior not becoming of the team, or any kind of off the field issues, Brandon can watch any chance of him getting a big contract go out the window and disappear with the wind.

His agent is reminding him of all these things right now, and I totally know that while Denver may not be his first choice, he is going to play balls to the wall next year, and be on his best behavior in front of the camera and mikes. He will say all the right things. He will defer to coach McDaniels. He will speak very highly of the Broncos organization and Mr. Bowlen.


Anything less is a kick in his own arse.:coffee:

Brandon aint the smartest......but I think he likes money.

We have ALL the leverage in this situation, and it will be the same next year.

[claymore]

If I were Marshall I wouldnt play for the RFA tender money. Its simply not worth the gamble.

[Spiritguy]

Schefter just moments ago on EPSN ,said no way BRONCOS would take Seattle's 2nd but if he's wrong I'd be pissed at McDaniels as well. Seattle's going OT with the 6th and Spiller with the 14th!! JMO!!


IF MCX were to consider Seattles 2nd as possible compensation they would be taking a second look at it now because Sea. swapped 2nds this year with SD in the QB aquisition. So the 2nd Sea has now is like #28 vs #8. Not quite as attractive. Of course I would'nt go for anything less than mid 1st myself. If it were in the early 20's they would have to pony up their 2nd and maybe more for me to pull the trigger.

[silkamilkamonico]

If I were Marshall I wouldnt play for the RFA tender money. Its simply not worth the gamble.

I think he has too. He wouldn't really have any other options would he?

[claymore]

I think he has too. He wouldn't really have any other options would he?

He can sit out the year without pay. Then he is an UFA unless he is Tagged, which is like 10 times what he would make this year anyway.

Right???

[silkamilkamonico]

He can sit out the year without pay. Then he is an UFA unless he is Tagged, which is like 10 times what he would make this year anyway.

Right???

I'm not sure that's really an option, doesn't he actually have to honor his contract to gain UFA status?

If not, I do think sitting out a year would kill his chances of gettting the big contract.

[T.K.O.]

He can sit out the year without pay. Then he is an UFA unless he is Tagged, which is like 10 times what he would make this year anyway.

Right???

i remenber a few months back there was alot of talk about brandon not being in a very good spot finacially.i doubt he is in a position to take a year off w/o pay.
we sometimes forget that a players salary seems like alot but when you factor in taxes and agent fees +family and other obligations,especially when decisions have been made on future earnings ie: big houses ,fancy cars etc... he could be bankrupt in a matter of months without his gamechecks.
its not like he can go find a job as a ceo ,doctor or pilot.
he plays football and needs a job...he'll play for his 2-3 mil if thats the best option

[LordTrychon]

i remenber a few months back there was alot of talk about brandon not being in a very good spot finacially.i doubt he is in a position to take a year off w/o pay.
we sometimes forget that a players salary seems like alot but when you factor in taxes and agent fees +family and other obligations,especially when decisions have been made on future earnings ie: big houses ,fancy cars etc... he could be bankrupt in a matter of months without his gamechecks.
its not like he can go find a job as a ceo ,doctor or pilot.
he plays football and needs a job...he'll play for his 2-3 mil if thats the best option

He was scheduled to make over $2 million with escalators this season, just based on previous performance... He hit other milestones as well that probably gave him more.

He may have seen this coming and prepared financially.

Not that I'm thinking he will... just that he could have. He made quite a bit more this last season than the one before.

[Lancane]

I think he has too. He wouldn't really have any other options would he?

The only option is sitting out, or he can take the underhanded route, he could retire...if he didn't sign his tenure and retired it would be the same as sitting out, except I believe Denver loses their rights over him. He can not unretire for a year from the date the paperwork is finalized. But I don't believe Marshall would do that nor sit out. But the more and more that Denver pulls BS with him, the more and more that the organization will look like the villain to the eyes of the public.

[topscribe]

And dare I ask what exactly do you mean by that? Or is this the time we start are annual argument, you and I?

;)

Clayton in the moron category. Not you.

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[Lancane]

Clayton in the moron category. Not you.

-----

Ahhh...I thought by chance my old friend was feeling waspish and wished to argue by calling me a moron...lol.

:D

[claymore]

I'm not sure that's really an option, doesn't he actually have to honor his contract to gain UFA status?

If not, I do think sitting out a year would kill his chances of gettting the big contract.

Right now he isnt under contract with anyone. He cant sign with anyone because the Broncos put the tender on him though (nor can he be traded until he signs it).

He owes nothing to anyone. If he wants to risk injury and play for a couple mill vs the multi million he will get next year, then he signs. But IMO the safe thing is to sit it out.

Just guessing, I dont know how the CBA stuff plays into this.

[topscribe]

I'm not sure that's really an option, doesn't he actually have to honor his contract to gain UFA status?

If not, I do think sitting out a year would kill his chances of gettting the big contract.

I think he does, IIRC. Moreover, he would forfeit a Pro Bowl/All-Pro season, miss
possible playoffs, diminish his value to all 32 clubs, and he would not get paid.
BMarsh wants only two things: elite status and money. His sitting out for a
season would take away one and sabotage the other.

He'll play . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Ahhh...I thought by chance my old friend was feeling waspish and wished to argue by calling me a moron...lol.

:D

Your time's coming. If you're a friend of mine, I'm going to insult you.

Just ask Clay, that miserable bastage . . .

-----

[claymore]

I think he does, IIRC. Moreover, he would forfeit a Pro Bowl/All-Pro season, miss
possible playoffs, diminish his value to all 32 clubs, and he would not get paid.
BMarsh wants only two things: elite status and money. His sitting out for a
season would take away one and sabotage the other.

He'll play . . .

-----

I really think if Marshall sat out, and he was an UFA, no team would hesitate throwing 40 million at him. Especially since it wont cost Team X a pick.

[Lancane]

Right now he isnt under contract with anyone. He cant sign with anyone because the Broncos put the tender on him though (nor can he be traded until he signs it).

He owes nothing to anyone. If he wants to risk injury and play for a couple mill vs the multi million he will get next year, then he signs. But IMO the safe thing is to sit it out.

Just guessing, I dont know how the CBA stuff plays into this.

It's fairly simple Clay, we at this point only own his rights, it's a lot like having his copyright; if he signs it, it means that he can play for the amount or be traded as any other signed player. If he does not then he is still part of the organization, but I believe the team does not have to pay him we only own the rights to him as an athlete. But by not signing it and not playing the team will continue to own his rights until he does officially sign the tender and plays. I believe that is why so many are pretty pissed that they became restricted free agents, it has few benefits for the players themselves.

[Nomad]

Nomad, let's not forget that he as well as Dumvervil and a whole ****load of players are not going to their OTA's, some because of the RFA rules in an uncapped year, much like a protest that the league should have gotten the deal done on the CBA...others want to workout privately elsewhere whether the CBA was a done deal or not simply to work with specific trainers and so forth. I guess we should call Dumervil immature? Yeah, Brandon showing up at OTA's may have changed some of the bad opinions of him, but it really is not that big of a deal. I would like to see the damn organization make an effort and sign him to a contract he deserves, all he wants is upfront money which is quite normal, sometimes a sign of friendship should come from the front office...not from a player. He may feel that he is unwanted, but fans don't care, obviously.

Orton's going!:whoknows: so I guess he's crossing the 'picket line'. Dumervil doesn't have the drama like Marshall that's why I said he's a special case! But it would sway opinions with Marshall attempting to be there and show face, it would be in his favor that he is trying. I know about the union BS as I'm in the IBEW, if Orton wasn't going then I wouldn;t bring this up but seeing he is then I don't see any excuse for Marshall (IF and a big IF, he's really trying to mend fences with the BRONCOS). Maybe with him showing up, the BRONCOS would reconsider. You can't say they would or wouldn't, but you never know until it's tried!!

[topscribe]

I really think if Marshall sat out, and he was an UFA, no team would hesitate throwing 40 million at him. Especially since it wont cost Team X a pick.

Simple. Franchise him.

Now, show the cards . . .

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[Lancane]

Orton's going!:whoknows: so I guess he's crossing the 'picket line'. Dumervil doesn't have the drama like Marshall that's why I said he's a special case! But it would sway opinions with Marshall attempting to be there and show face, it would be in his favor that he is trying. I know about the union BS as I'm in the IBEW, if Orton wasn't going then I wouldn;t bring this up but seeing he is then I don't see any excuse for Marshall (IF and a big IF, he's really trying to mend fences with the BRONCOS). Maybe with him showing up, the BRONCOS would reconsider. You can't say they would or wouldn't, but you never know until it's tried!!

No I agree, it would sway the opinions of at least the fans that see him in a bad light, but for those of us who actually hold McDaniels accountable a bit more in the mess, I guess we expect the head coach to man up a little and extend his hand first to fix the damn problem. By the way, I heard Orton was not officially planning to join the OTA's for the team until he found out from McDaniels that we traded for Quinn, don't know if there is any truth to it. But if so, then he may not be so up and up and some are smitten to believe. I personally think McDaniels as the supposed head coach of the organization should take the intivative to fix the issue between he and Marshall.

[claymore]

It's fairly simple Clay, we at this point only own his rights, it's a lot like having his copyright; if he signs it, it means that he can play for the amount or be traded as any other signed player. If he does not then he is still part of the organization, but I believe the team does not have to pay him we only own the rights to him as an athlete. But by not signing it and not playing the team will continue to own his rights until he does officially sign the tender and plays. I believe that is why so many are pretty pissed that they became restricted free agents, it has few benefits for the players themselves.

Yup. From my limited knowledge, Marshal has little to lose by sitting out, and lots to lose by playing for peanuts.

Bottom line, Marshall gets traded, or he gets a new deal. Id be shocked if he played for the RFA tender money.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

He was scheduled to make over $2 million with escalators this season, just based on previous performance... He hit other milestones as well that probably gave him more.

He may have seen this coming and prepared financially.

Not that I'm thinking he will... just that he could have. He made quite a bit more this last season than the one before.

Brandon was offered a new contract before last season, 9.1 million/yr, but turned it down because it did not contain additional upfront money.

[topscribe]

No I agree, it would sway the opinions of at least the fans that see him in a bad light, but for those of us who actually hold McDaniels accountable a bit more in the mess, I guess we expect the head coach to man up a little and extend his hand first to fix the damn problem. By the way, I heard Orton was not officially planning to join the OTA's for the team until he found out from McDaniels that we traded for Quinn, don't know if there is any truth to it. But if so, then he may not be so up and up and some are smitten to believe. I personally think McDaniels as the supposed head coach of the organization should take the intivative to fix the issue between he and Marshall.

Orton has already said he will show up Friday (tomorrow).

-----

[claymore]

Simple. Franchise him.

Now, show the cards . . .

-----

To late this year. If I was a Player Id love the franchise tag though.

[topscribe]

Brandon was offered a new contract before last season, 9.1 million/yr, but turned it down because it did not contain additional upfront money.

So he played for his 4th round money up front.

Might this indicate he and/or his agent isn't thinking?

-----

[topscribe]

To late this year. If I was a Player Id love the franchise tag though.

The Broncos don't have to worry about this year.

They have a firm grasp on his you-know-whats . . .

-----

[Lancane]

Orton has already said he will show up Friday (tomorrow).

-----

I know that Top, the point I was making is that according to someone, Orton was not going to go to the team's OTAs' originally, but changed his mind when he was contacted and made aware that we had traded for Brady Quinn. I don't know if it is true or not, but it makes sense.

[Nomad]

No I agree, it would sway the opinions of at least the fans that see him in a bad light, but for those of us who actually hold McDaniels accountable a bit more in the mess, I guess we expect the head coach to man up a little and extend his hand first to fix the damn problem. By the way, I heard Orton was not officially planning to join the OTA's for the team until he found out from McDaniels that we traded for Quinn, don't know if there is any truth to it. But if so, then he may not be so up and up and some are smitten to believe. I personally think McDaniels as the supposed head coach of the organization should take the intivative to fix the issue between he and Marshall.

I'm trying to find a bright light with the Marshall thing because he's a great NFL talent, but with his track record, I disagree with the BRONCOS having to take the first step and my reasoning is because Marshall has stated he wants to remain a BRONCO, if he wouldn't of said these words then I would have already written him off! I'm very critical of his liability to the team because of his off the field instability but he flip flops alot saying I hate the BRONCOS and then I want to be a BRONCO, and now I believe HE needs to step up and show them he's serious and then it would be the BRONCOS who have to counter. And if he's trying and the BRONCOS don't offer a signing bonus (upfront money) (which they've already offered a contract), then we know it's the organization that doesn't want Marshall period!!! I know you and others will disagree but this is the way I see it

[topscribe]

I know that Top, the point I was making is that according to someone, Orton was not going to go to the team's OTAs' originally, but changed his mind when he was contacted and made aware that we had traded for Brady Quinn. I don't know if it is true or not, but it makes sense.

Well, I would advise him to. Yes, the Broncos have backup in mind with Quinn,
but he is a far better QB than Simms. Despite talk of competition last year, I
knew Orton had it made from the start. This year, he doesn't. He had better be
there every single day and play his ass off. IMO.

-----

[claymore]

The Broncos don't have to worry about this year.

They have a firm grasp on his you-know-whats . . .

-----

I dont think its that easy. They dont have much to hold over his head this year. He can cost them a high round draft pick by not signing his tender. I think both parties have thier hands on eachothers throats.

[WARHORSE]

Right now he isnt under contract with anyone. He cant sign with anyone because the Broncos put the tender on him though (nor can he be traded until he signs it).

He owes nothing to anyone. If he wants to risk injury and play for a couple mill vs the multi million he will get next year, then he signs. But IMO the safe thing is to sit it out.

Just guessing, I dont know how the CBA stuff plays into this.


He will not sit out.

First of all, sitting out will not get him a big contract next year. Since when did that ever happen?


There is a good chance theres going to be a lockout next season......what is he going to have then? Nothing.

He has no choice except to play for the tender. And when all is said and done, 2.5 million is easily worth playing for. As for injury, if he wants to he can take out a health insurance policy.

Not only that, but youre looking at a player who is trying to REHAB his image in the league. Sitting out the season will only serve to make him even more unattractive than he already is.


Sitting out.....retiring......not options.

If no one gives us what we want, Brandon plays for the the tender, OR more wisely, signs the contract we offered him and makes more money.

[topscribe]

He will not sit out.

First of all, sitting out will not get him a big contract next year. Since when did that ever happen?


There is a good chance theres going to be a lockout next season......what is he going to have then? Nothing.

He has no choice except to play for the tender. And when all is said and done, 2.5 million is easily worth playing for. As for injury, if he wants to he can take out a health insurance policy.

Not only that, but youre looking at a player who is trying to REHAB his image in the league. Sitting out the season will only serve to make him even more unattractive than he already is.


Sitting out.....retiring......not options.

If no one gives us what we want, Brandon plays for the the tender, OR more wisely, signs the contract we offered him and makes more money.

Guess he should have accepted last year's offer . . .

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

So he played for his 4th round money up front.

Might this indicate he and/or his agent isn't thinking?

-----

If I had to guess, I would believe it was his agent who convinced Brandon NOT to sign the contract - let the Broncos throw him out to the league, and see what happens, and when Brandon is another team's property, they start hammering that team for a new contract - and why - we all know that the more $$$$$$$ Brandon gets, the more $$$$$ his agent gets.

[Lancane]

So he played for his 4th round money up front.

Might this indicate he and/or his agent isn't thinking?

-----

Actually, I look at it like a car deal...lol.

Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders offered to 'lease to own' but did not want to put a down payment on it, so they tried to side step it by offering a decent sum for the lease payment so that it would cost them less if they broke the lease. By having to pay a down payment (money upfront and what should have been a fair amount) they would have paid much more if they decided to break the commitment to the lease. Now the lease is due but it will cost them more because of what they did, so they either trade it in and go another route or pay the damn down payment with a new lease contract.

Simple...:D

[WARHORSE]

Guess he should have accepted last year's offer . . .

-----


He'd be 9 mil richer if he had.........according to the hearsay.

[LordTrychon]

Brandon was offered a new contract before last season, 9.1 million/yr, but turned it down because it did not contain additional upfront money.

Because nobody in the league signs contracts that have no upfront money that I'm aware of. Brandon is not so horrible that he should be the first... and he'd probably piss off a lot of people in the union if he was indeed the first.

Actually... don't they have to agree that the contract is fair and in keeping with standard practices before it's final anyway?

[Northman]

I just saw this on another message board, so I don't have a link

"Marshall update: With the New York Jets unlikely to jump in on a possible Brandon Marshall trade, the Seahawks remain the main team interested in the wideout, but Seattle will most likely wait until the second round of the draft to acquire him.

The Seahawks don't want to surrender a first-round pick. They would like to fill other needs with the No.6 and No.14 picks. The Broncos have the leverage now because they can look for another team to offer a first-rounder. If the first round of the draft passes without a Marshall trade, however, the leverage would shift to the Seahawks or other interested teams."

-------------------------------------

I have to say, that this is how I see the situation. I've said that I dont believe we get a 1st rounder, and will probably end up with Seattle's 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year (or some kind of compensation.. although I don't think it will be another 2nd).

I know this isn't a fact, by any means, but I do believe this to be a very real scenario.

I dont. Regardless is if Seattle is going to try and wiggle their way to the second round to make a offer to Denver the Broncos would still have to settle for what Seattle wants to offer. Like ive said before and what has been stated by the team Denver will have no problem retaining Brandon's services even if it means maybe trading Brandon midway through the season.

[claymore]

He will not sit out.

First of all, sitting out will not get him a big contract next year. Since when did that ever happen?


There is a good chance theres going to be a lockout next season......what is he going to have then? Nothing.

He has no choice except to play for the tender. And when all is said and done, 2.5 million is easily worth playing for. As for injury, if he wants to he can take out a health insurance policy.

Not only that, but youre looking at a player who is trying to REHAB his image in the league. Sitting out the season will only serve to make him even more unattractive than he already is.


Sitting out.....retiring......not options.

If no one gives us what we want, Brandon plays for the the tender, OR more wisely, signs the contract we offered him and makes more money.

Marshall's image isnt that bad. With all the animosity between him and McDaniels, I seriously wouldnt want him to play underneath McDif I was his agent.

Marshall has 2.5 mil to gain by playing for RFA money. He has alot more to lose if this next year goes bad. (Bad year, McD fall out, Injury, etc...)

[Mike]

Marshall's image isnt that bad. With all the animosity between him and McDaniels, I seriously wouldnt want him to play underneath McDif I was his agent.

Marshall has 2.5 mil to gain by playing for RFA money. He has alot more to lose if this next year goes bad. (Bad year, McD fall out, Injury, etc...)

I disagree. If his image were better then we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Broncos would have given him the contract he wants. His image is the reason we are where we are today and the reason he has not received an offer from any other team.

[Northman]

If I were Marshall I wouldnt play for the RFA tender money. Its simply not worth the gamble.

Unfortuantely, the risk for Denver is even higher.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

if the following is true, in regards to Pepper's contract with the Bears, there are many different things that can be added to a player's contract:

http://beargoggleson.com/2010/03/10/bears-have-outs-in-peppers-contract/


The Bears dropped over $91 million on the prize of the 2010 Free Agent Class, Julius Peppers. But the numbers could be deceiving. Oh those crafty Bears.

During the Friday presser, GM Jerry Angelo repeatedly thanked Cliff Stein for his hard work in hammering out the blockbuster deal. After reading Mike Florio’s Pro Football Talk post I’m starting to understand why Jerry was so appreciative of Stein’s efforts:

Peppers gets $20 million in 2010 (all but a $100,000 workout bonus is guaranteed). But the $22 million in guaranteed money that he’s due to receive in 2011 and 2012 is guaranteed for injury only.

This means that the Bears can decide after the 2010 season to cut Peppers for skill reasons — and they’ll owe him nothing.

Specifically, Peppers’ 2011 base salary of $900,000 is guaranteed for injury at the time it’s signed; on February 10, 2011, it becomes guaranteed for skill. Also, a $10.5 million roster bonus due in 2011 is guaranteed for injury at signing. On February 10, 2011, it becomes guaranteed for skill.

An $8.9 million base salary in 2012 is guaranteed for injury at signing and then for skill as of February 10, 2012

Finally, $1.8 million of Peppers’ 2013 base salary is guaranteed for injury only.

So, basically, if the Bears decide before February 10, 2011 that Peppers isn’t what they thought he’d be, they can treat it as a one-year, $20 million deal, and walk away.

So if you push all the rhetoric aside, the Bears are really on the hook for $20 million. If Peppers doesn’t perform, the Bears have themselves a Get out of Jail Free card.

Of course, we’re all hoping that Peppers racks up about 15 sacks and leads the Bears back to the playoffs and there is no consideration of using any out clause.

[Lancane]

I dont. Regardless is if Seattle is going to try and wiggle their way to the second round to make a offer to Denver the Broncos would still have to settle for what Seattle wants to offer. Like ive said before and what has been stated by the team Denver will have no problem retaining Brandon's services even if it means maybe trading Brandon midway through the season.

Why do the Broncos have to settle for anything? They own his rights, that is the point that Top made, they hold the cards in retrospect of his near future...but he can take other routes to likewise cause the team issues. Denver can simply hold on to his rights, because that is what we have...once he signs his tenure it is equal to a one year contract. We can freely and without regard trade him then, he would still have to sign his tenure I believe to be traded, because the rights to him alone would cost a first round pick. That is why as I stated earlier that athletes are so against becoming restricted free agents. We can not trade him without him signing his tenure though, his rights are the cost of the tenure placed on him.

[claymore]

I disagree. If his image were better then we wouldn't be having this discussion. The Broncos would have given him the contract he wants. His image is the reason we are where we are today and the reason he has not received an offer from any other team.
His image really doesnt matter IMO. He isnt worse than TO, or Javon Walker, or Randy moss. He is young, extremely talented, and 31 other teams on the league would scoop him up if there wasnt a #1 price tag associated with him.

Even a washed up TO commands 5 mill a year. A young BM that isnt near the pain in the butt will command at LEAST 7 mil a year.

Unfortuantely, the risk for Denver is even higher.
By signing him? IMO This is a touchy subject for Denver, and they can get burned a couple ways. I dont know which one you are talking about though.

[Northman]

Why do the Broncos have to settle for anything? They own his rights, that is the point that Top made, they hold the cards in retrospect of his near future...but he can take other routes to likewise cause the team issues. Denver can simply hold on to his rights, because that is what we have...once he signs his tenure it is equal to a one year contract. We can freely and without regard trade him then, he would still have to sign his tenure I believe to be traded, because the rights to him alone would cost a first round pick. That is why as I stated earlier that athletes are so against becoming restricted free agents. We can not trade him without him signing his tenure though, his rights are the cost of the tenure placed on him.

Actually, that was a misprint on my part. It was supposed to say Denver "doesnt" have to settle. My bad.

[Mike]

His image really doesnt matter IMO. He isnt worse than TO, or Javon Walker, or Randy moss. He is young, extremely talented, and 31 other teams on the league would scoop him up if there wasnt a #1 price tag associated with him.

Even a washed up TO commands 5 mill a year. A young BM that isnt near the pain in the but will command at LEAST 7 mil a year.

By signing him? IMO This is a touchy subject for Denver, and they can get burned a couple ways. I dont know which one you are talking about though.

You're right. His dumbassery has nothing to do with why the Broncos haven't resigned him. McD just hates anyone with talent and it is all part of his masterplan to destroy the Broncos.

[Northman]

By signing him? IMO This is a touchy subject for Denver, and they can get burned a couple ways. I dont know which one you are talking about though.

Basically, if they throw the money his way and pay him what he wants but he doesnt improve his behavior off and on the field it will become a bigger problem than it is now. The big difference right now is that Denver isnt shoveling out a crapload of money for a guy who just cant behave.

[Lancane]

You're right. His dumbassery has nothing to do with why the Broncos haven't resigned him. McD just hates anyone with talent and it is all part of his masterplan to destroy the Broncos.

Couldn't have agreed more...lol. :lol:

[SR]

But he doesn't want to play in Denver, and Denver doesn't want him here.

According to WHO?! All of this Marshall "controversy" is media generated. Do you know what Marshall wants? No. Do you know what the Broncos want? No. Do you know what the media has brainwashed all of you with? YEP.

[roomemp]

Couldn't have agreed more...lol. :lol:

Nah I look at it like this

McD just hates head case QB's and Wr's who demand trades :elefant:

[Lancane]

Basically, if they throw the money his way and pay him what he wants but he doesnt improve his behavior off and on the field it will become a bigger problem than it is now. The big difference right now is that Denver isnt shoveling out a crapload of money for a guy who just cant behave.

But there are ways around that, take for example the Peppers contract...you can latent any contract with special incentives to be in the favor of the player to succeed and at the same time clauses that can come into effect if he does not behave or is less then effective on and off the field. Remember Winslow got a contract that stated he could no longer risk his body beyond the field, he could be fined but also certain bonuses would be invalid by doing so. Each contract in the league is tailored to fit the player and organization and what they want. Hell, they could even place clauses into the contract which forces him to return a percentage of the signing money depending on the certain factors. So it can be done, it's not unusual or unheard of.

[Ziggy]

If Marshall sits out past the 10th game, he gets no credit for the season by league rules. Worst case scenario here may be that he sits out the first 10 weeks, then comes back to Dove Valley and disrupts whatever team chemistry has been established.

The one factor that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that Bowlen may not want to pay him because of the risk of losing millions. Regardless of what people think, Bowlen does have the last word in all of this. If he has told Josh that he's not guaranteeing millions on a player that's 1 strike from a long suspension and 2 strikes from being out of the league, who can blame him? Owners aren't going to forget the Pacman Jones debacle. They are business men first and foremost. There's a reason that only 1 owner has even brought Brandon in for a talk. That 1 owner happens to be one of the richest men in the world.

[Lancane]

Nah I look at it like this

McD just hates head case QB's and Wr's who demand trades :elefant:

I see you drank the koolaid, I tried to warn everyone it was spiked! :D

[roomemp]

I see you drank the koolaid, I tried to warn everyone it was spiked! :D

But it tastes so good!!

[Northman]

But there are ways around that, take for example the Peppers contract...you can latent any contract with special incentives to be in the favor of the player to succeed and at the same time clauses that can come into effect if he does not behave or is less then effective on and off the field. Remember Winslow got a contract that stated he could no longer risk his body beyond the field, he could be fined but also certain bonuses would be invalid by doing so. Each contract in the league is tailored to fit the player and organization and what they want. Hell, they could even place clauses into the contract which forces him to return a percentage of the signing money depending on the certain factors. So it can be done, it's not unusual or unheard of.

I agree 100% and think that Denver has probably offered that type of contract to Brandon in regards to the off the field stuff. But i can also see Brandon's agent not allowing Brandon to get involved with that kind of contract because of Dallas a few years ago signing TO without the clauses. Honestly, i think Brandon would be dumb to pass up on any contract that would boost his salary even though it will make him far more accountable. I just have a feeling its the wording that is keeping Brandon from signing with Denver.

[Nomad]

If Marshall sits out past the 10th game, he gets no credit for the season by league rules. Worst case scenario here may be that he sits out the first 10 weeks, then comes back to Dove Valley and disrupts whatever team chemistry has been established.

The one factor that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that Bowlen may not want to pay him because of the risk of losing millions. Regardless of what people think, Bowlen does have the last word in all of this. If he has told Josh that he's not guaranteeing millions on a player that's 1 strike from a long suspension and 2 strikes from being out of the league, who can blame him? Owners aren't going to forget the Pacman Jones debacle. They are business men first and foremost. There's a reason that only 1 owner has even brought Brandon in for a talk. That 1 owner happens to be one of the richest men in the world.

Many of us have been saying this the whole time! If Bowlen really thought McDaniels was a dumbass and overstepping his boundary and if Bowlen wanted to keep Marshall that bad, he would have step in and had a contract for him and if McD didn't like it, see ya!

I believe the BRONCOS want to see how committed he is to them and that's why i believe he should show face at OTAs and give the BRONCOS something to think about as far as him wanting to commit!

Right now, I believe Marshall thought teams would be tripping over themselves to sign him but he has messed up his credibilty with his mischief!!

[Nomad]

I agree 100% and think that Denver has probably offered that type of contract to Brandon in regards to the off the field stuff. But i can also see Brandon's agent not allowing Brandon to get involved with that kind of contract because of Dallas a few years ago signing TO without the clauses. Honestly, i think Brandon would be dumb to pass up on any contract that would boost his salary even though it will make him far more accountable. I just have a feeling its the wording that is keeping Brandon from signing with Denver.

I believe they had one last year, but right now they are letting him see what the NFL thinks of him and seeing how committed he is to the BRONCOS like he says!! Then they'll offer him the same as last year with maybe a little upfront money but nothing eye popping!

[claymore]

You're right. His dumbassery has nothing to do with why the Broncos haven't resigned him. McD just hates anyone with talent and it is all part of his masterplan to destroy the Broncos.
Its more complicated than that. Doom has been a model citizen and he hasnt been resigned either.

Broncos are being cheap because they can. I expect them to take full advantage of the uncapped league year, and pay the UFA's only what is required.




Basically, if they throw the money his way and pay him what he wants but he doesnt improve his behavior off and on the field it will become a bigger problem than it is now. The big difference right now is that Denver isnt shoveling out a crapload of money for a guy who just cant behave.
Im one of the guys that want Marshall gone. I love the kid on Sunday's its the 6 other days of the week I dont like.

[Lancane]

I agree 100% and think that Denver has probably offered that type of contract to Brandon in regards to the off the field stuff. But i can also see Brandon's agent not allowing Brandon to get involved with that kind of contract because of Dallas a few years ago signing TO without the clauses. Honestly, i think Brandon would be dumb to pass up on any contract that would boost his salary even though it will make him far more accountable. I just have a feeling its the wording that is keeping Brandon from signing with Denver.

Could be, we have no way of knowing...but if that is not it, I think McDaniels to save face and show he is a good person beyond being just a coach should bring Marshall in, just the two of them, no Xanders or Bowlen either and see what it is they both expect from one another. If Marshall does want traded or if not what it is he is looking for and so on...the point is that somewhere someone will have to make the effort to fix this, it could be what Marshall wants is simple, if McDaniels sees it that way and they understand each other better then this could be worked out to favor both, no matter if it's a trade or a contract.

[BroncoWave]

If Marshall sits out past the 10th game, he gets no credit for the season by league rules. Worst case scenario here may be that he sits out the first 10 weeks, then comes back to Dove Valley and disrupts whatever team chemistry has been established.

The one factor that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that Bowlen may not want to pay him because of the risk of losing millions. Regardless of what people think, Bowlen does have the last word in all of this. If he has told Josh that he's not guaranteeing millions on a player that's 1 strike from a long suspension and 2 strikes from being out of the league, who can blame him? Owners aren't going to forget the Pacman Jones debacle. They are business men first and foremost. There's a reason that only 1 owner has even brought Brandon in for a talk. That 1 owner happens to be one of the richest men in the world.

With revenue sharing, NFL teams make enough money to pay players' salaries with TV contract money alone. It's a myth to say that Bowlen wouldn't want to give a huge contract to Marshall at the risk of losing money. Bowlen isn't going to go into the poor house if he gives Marshall a contract and it doesn't pan out.

[WARHORSE]

His image really doesnt matter IMO. He isnt worse than TO, or Javon Walker, or Randy moss. He is young, extremely talented, and 31 other teams on the league would scoop him up if there wasnt a #1 price tag associated with him.

Even a washed up TO commands 5 mill a year. A young BM that isnt near the pain in the butt will command at LEAST 7 mil a year.

By signing him? IMO This is a touchy subject for Denver, and they can get burned a couple ways. I dont know which one you are talking about though.


It does matter. We arent talkin about just signing him to a contract like T.O.

We're talkin about a team giving up a draft pick, AND signing him.

BM is worth more than 7 a year BTW on production............but not risk.

[Benetto]

If we trade Marshall and get Bryant with the first we receive, I will have the police called on me 30 minutes after the transaction...

Trade one "Diva" WR who has PROVEN HIMSELF, for another "Diva" that hasn't even suited up in an NFL uni yet...Real smart move :rolleyes: . Plus we will have to sign Bryant to first round money, or he will not even show up (hold-out).

Brandon has been quoted saying he would like to stay in Denver, but this is a business and Mcdaniels will make that decision. Maybe he is BSing through his teeth so other teams will see he's a team player...but I don't care, he's finally saying the right stuff.

Now if we draft a prospective probowler on defense (Dline, safety or LB) I might be able to jump on board with this. I wouldn't mind trading 2 BM's for a player who pans out to be a Ed Reed or Polamalu type safety.

[topscribe]

I disagree Top, Denver holds only half of the cards...they could tell him that he is going nowhere and will play. But talking to grown men like that in this day and age is not wise. Do you remember why I quit coaching? We discussed it quite oftenly, it was because I was more old school and did not fit into the 'new mold', babying the players and letting them do what they wanted. The NFL is reflective of that, if not we would not have so many crying out to the public or doing the things they do. Coaches like Parcells', Shwartz, Coughlin, Reeves, Lombardi and so on have really been out of demand since the early 90's, they became more like Jimmy Johnson and the new styles found success. And the old tough nosed coaches found little, look at Parcells' his last few coaching stints, even Belichick is more on form with the new rather then the old. It could explain why Andy Reid has only found minor success and never truly made it to his goal, or it could be his bad judgements with personnel, either or.

Point is that McDaniels could say that, but then they get one year of production and he is gone, they can slap the franchise tag on him...only gives them two years, but the more and more you pull that, the less and less others will want to play for that organization. Look at Carolina, no one wants to really play for them right now...give those that got their money. Top you grew up in the days when football was not the *****whipped version it is now, back when blood covered the uniforms and only the toughest SOBs' won the day and the coaches reflected that, it was how I was coached, but it was on the decline even then.

That does it. You're a moron.






















. . . But you make sense, anyway . . . :D


-----

[WARHORSE]

Its more complicated than that. Doom has been a model citizen and he hasnt been resigned either.

Broncos are being cheap because they can. I expect them to take full advantage of the uncapped league year, and pay the UFA's only what is required.




Im one of the guys that want Marshall gone. I love the kid on Sunday's its the 6 other days of the week I dont like.


The comparison is not comparable.


You dont think the Broncos are interested in resigning Doom?

TOTALLY different scenario.

First of all the financial and contractual landscapes are an unknown at this point and time. When hammering out a new contract, both the Broncos and Dooms agent are trying to take into consideration that there may be a lockout next year, AND there may be a new CBA.

If a new CBA is in place, thats the scenario that Doom wants to be a free agent in.

Theres a lot to be considered in Dooms situation. As it is, he may get a large contract from Denver....but will he command an even larger contract next year?

If he performs the same, he will be worth a huge contract, and Denver will undoubtedly sign him or franchise him.

I would assume the latter.



Btw, I would not be shocked AT ALL if Doom were dealt away this year for the right package.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/broncos-owner-wants-to-keep-wr-marshall.html

The Denver Post reports: Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said he would like star receiver Brandon Marshall to remain with in Denver, but wouldn't block a trade if rookie coach Josh McDaniels feels it would benefit the team. Bowlen revealed the plan is for Kyle Orton to remain the Broncos' quarterback, but the team hopes to select another quarterback in the upcoming draft.

"I'd like to see Brandon stay," Bowlen said. "Now, if the head coach sits down and says no, I want to trade him, or I've got a deal that's going to be beneficial to the club, I don't think I'm going to override him.

"I think Brandon going through this whole process last year, I think it matured him a little bit, if not a lot. And I think he's, at least I hope he is, wondering if it's the right thing for him to move to another team. I think that's a question mark in his mind. He hasn't told me that, but I have a sense of that."

Get the full story at denverpost.com.

[Benetto]

Is this a brand new article?

I remember reading about this somewhere yesterday or the day before...:confused:

[Nomad]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/broncos-owner-wants-to-keep-wr-marshall.html

The Denver Post reports: Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said he would like star receiver Brandon Marshall to remain with in Denver, but wouldn't block a trade if rookie coach Josh McDaniels feels it would benefit the team. Bowlen revealed the plan is for Kyle Orton to remain the Broncos' quarterback, but the team hopes to select another quarterback in the upcoming draft.

"I'd like to see Brandon stay," Bowlen said. "Now, if the head coach sits down and says no, I want to trade him, or I've got a deal that's going to be beneficial to the club, I don't think I'm going to override him.

"I think Brandon going through this whole process last year, I think it matured him a little bit, if not a lot. And I think he's, at least I hope he is, wondering if it's the right thing for him to move to another team. I think that's a question mark in his mind. He hasn't told me that, but I have a sense of that."

Get the full story at denverpost.com.

This is why I like you DN, you know how to find info I don't see!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Is this a brand new article?

I remember reading about this somewhere yesterday or the day before...:confused:

Not a brand new article - contains the comments Bowlen made in Feb. I posted it for those who feel, if Bowlen really wanted Marshall, he would stop Coach McD, and this states that if Coach McD feels a trade would be beneficial, Bowlen would notover ride the decision.

[Benetto]

Not a brand new article - contains the comments Bowlen made in Feb. I posted it for those who feel, if Bowlen really wanted Marshall, he would stop Coach McD, and this states that if Coach McD feels a trade would be beneficial, Bowlen would notover ride the decision.

You're the best...:beer:

[Nomad]

Not a brand new article - contains the comments Bowlen made in Feb. I posted it for those who feel, if Bowlen really wanted Marshall, he would stop Coach McD, and this states that if Coach McD feels a trade would be beneficial, Bowlen would notover ride the decision.

In other words, Nomad quit talking out of your ass and get your facts straight!:D:lol:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This is why I like you DN, you know how to find info I don't see!

Sooooooo - that's the ONLY reason you like me :eviltongue:

[claymore]

The comparison is not comparable.


You dont think the Broncos are interested in resigning Doom?

TOTALLY different scenario.

First of all the financial and contractual landscapes are an unknown at this point and time. When hammering out a new contract, both the Broncos and Dooms agent are trying to take into consideration that there may be a lockout next year, AND there may be a new CBA.

If a new CBA is in place, thats the scenario that Doom wants to be a free agent in.

Theres a lot to be considered in Dooms situation. As it is, he may get a large contract from Denver....but will he command an even larger contract next year?

If he performs the same, he will be worth a huge contract, and Denver will undoubtedly sign him or franchise him.

I would assume the latter.



Btw, I would not be shocked AT ALL if Doom were dealt away this year for the right package.
If I were the Broncos I damn sure wouldnt sign Doom off of this years numbers. He has peaked. If he has a better year in 2010. THen the SOB has earned whatever he gets.

There are a million factors in all this.

Marshall not getting paid this year would have to do more with what the Broncos accept as trade value more than what Marshall's character is.

Regardless of when or with who... Marshall's next contract will be between 7-10 mil a year.

If I was him I would avoid playing until my compensation was that. Anything else just jeapordizes the eventual payday.

[Lancane]

The comparison is not comparable.


You dont think the Broncos are interested in resigning Doom?

TOTALLY different scenario.

First of all the financial and contractual landscapes are an unknown at this point and time. When hammering out a new contract, both the Broncos and Dooms agent are trying to take into consideration that there may be a lockout next year, AND there may be a new CBA.

If a new CBA is in place, thats the scenario that Doom wants to be a free agent in.

Theres a lot to be considered in Dooms situation. As it is, he may get a large contract from Denver....but will he command an even larger contract next year?

If he performs the same, he will be worth a huge contract, and Denver will undoubtedly sign him or franchise him.

I would assume the latter.



Btw, I would not be shocked AT ALL if Doom were dealt away this year for the right package.

Yeah, I've been thinking about that...the Dumervil possibility at least. I wouldn't be surprised if Denver traded him to Washington, Buffalo or especially Miami. I like Dumervil, but of the two...I think we benefit more by keeping Marshall, so if we are willing to trade him, maybe we are willing to trade anybody!

:confused:

[claymore]

Not a brand new article - contains the comments Bowlen made in Feb. I posted it for those who feel, if Bowlen really wanted Marshall, he would stop Coach McD, and this states that if Coach McD feels a trade would be beneficial, Bowlen would notover ride the decision.

The Cutler debacle proved to me Bowlen will give the lattitude to his coach. No one is untouchable if your young PB franchise QB is tradeable.

[claymore]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that...the Dumervil possibility at least. I wouldn't be surprised if Denver traded him to Washington, Buffalo or especially Miami. I like Dumervil, but of the two...I think we benefit more by keeping Marshall, so if we are willing to trade him, maybe we are willing to trade anybody!

:confused:

The only guy I would be mildly shocked to see traded is Clady. NOONE is safe. We are NE west.

[Ziggy]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/02/broncos-owner-wants-to-keep-wr-marshall.html

The Denver Post reports: Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said he would like star receiver Brandon Marshall to remain with in Denver, but wouldn't block a trade if rookie coach Josh McDaniels feels it would benefit the team. Bowlen revealed the plan is for Kyle Orton to remain the Broncos' quarterback, but the team hopes to select another quarterback in the upcoming draft.

"I'd like to see Brandon stay," Bowlen said. "Now, if the head coach sits down and says no, I want to trade him, or I've got a deal that's going to be beneficial to the club, I don't think I'm going to override him.

"I think Brandon going through this whole process last year, I think it matured him a little bit, if not a lot. And I think he's, at least I hope he is, wondering if it's the right thing for him to move to another team. I think that's a question mark in his mind. He hasn't told me that, but I have a sense of that."

Get the full story at denverpost.com.

That's a great article Carol, but I can post quotes where Bowlen said that Cutler was the man in Denver, and that the Goodman's weren't going anywhere. Bowlen may be posturing to try to get Brandon out of here for some value.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

That's a great article Carol, but I can post quotes where Bowlen said that Cutler was the man in Denver, and that the Goodman's weren't going anywhere. Bowlen may be posturing to try to get Brandon out of here for some value.

Guess only those involved really know what happened - only those involved know why things turned out the way they did.

[Lancane]

Guess only those involved really know what happened - only those involved know why things turned out the way they did.

I miss Shanahan and his questionable drafts! :shocked:

But even then he did make his fair share of mistakes...

That's it... We should hire Steve Mariucci!

[topscribe]

The only guy I would be mildly shocked to see traded is Clady. NOONE is safe. We are NE west.

Clady? :faint:


If the Broncos traded off Clady, I think I would swear off the Broncos until the entire FO leaves . . .

-----

[claymore]

Clady? :faint:


If the Broncos traded off Clady, I think I would swear off the Broncos until the entire FO leaves . . .

-----

I doubt it. Several shocking things I thought people would be pissed about only resulted in mild anger by a few.

Sounds bad now, but if it happened it would be just another weird occurance.

[Poet]

If I were Marshall I wouldnt play for the RFA tender money. Its simply not worth the gamble.

He has no choice. Marshall had no choice last year either. Teams own players, and when teams let the player get the best of them it's because they let them do that.

If he doesn't play for a year it will hurt his value in a big way. Look how much money he 'made' in his big production years. Think about how much he will 'lose' if he doesn't play for a whole year. That just gives him more time to do and say even more stupid things.

Football players get paid because they play football, not because of how much talent they have. If he sits out it just shows that he's all about himself, and seeing how people aren't beating down the door for him now he can't afford that.

The best part of it (I say this sarcastically) is that if he does sit out it just proves McDaniels right.

He can't win, and he's only in that position because he is an incredibly unintelligent person.

[topscribe]

I doubt it. Several shocking things I thought people would be pissed about only resulted in mild anger by a few.

Sounds bad now, but if it happened it would be just another weird occurance.

Leave me and my posturing alone, will you? :throwrock:

-----

[Ziggy]

Clay, has there been any player that you can think of with off the field problems that held out and still got paid long term? I'm trying to come up with one off the top of my head, but I don't recall anyone. Peppers held out, but he had no off field issues. Marshall is going to have to weigh the risks of being a good soldier for a full year and raising his value against injury risk. I'm not sure which way he'll go, but I'm guessing that his agent will have a lot to do with his decision.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Orton's going!:whoknows: so I guess he's crossing the 'picket line'. Dumervil doesn't have the drama like Marshall that's why I said he's a special case! But it would sway opinions with Marshall attempting to be there and show face, it would be in his favor that he is trying. I know about the union BS as I'm in the IBEW, if Orton wasn't going then I wouldn;t bring this up but seeing he is then I don't see any excuse for Marshall (IF and a big IF, he's really trying to mend fences with the BRONCOS). Maybe with him showing up, the BRONCOS would reconsider. You can't say they would or wouldn't, but you never know until it's tried!!

Simply put, Orton is vying for a job. Orton needs the Broncos a hell of a lot more than they need him. We just gave him the best year of his career and will most likely start him again this year. Lets be honest, Orton isn't showing up to OTAs because it's the "right thing to do" and because he's a "leader". Orton is taking a HUGE risk showing up without an official contract (if he were such a great guy and wanted to be here forever, he'd have already signed his tender offer) because if he gets hurt at OTAs, the Broncos don't have to pay him SHIT.

The Quinn trade was a straight up slap in the face to Orton as were Bowlen's offseason comments about drafting a young QB. Orton knows that with his limited skill set that the only way he stays the starter in Denver is to play ball (no pun intended) with the front office and be the most "ideal" team guy he can be. Do you think for one second if Orton skips all the offseason "voluntary" workouts and OTAs like Marshall and Dumervil, that McDaniels won't just use the time to develop Quinn and Brandstater to be the starter this year?

It really is dumb for the RFAs not signed to a contract to show up. Make no mistake, Orton is showing up on Friday because he's got to do everything in his power to keep his JOB, not because he's just that "team oriented" and stupid.

[Lancane]

Simply put, Orton is vying for a job. Orton needs the Broncos a hell of a lot more than they need him. We just gave him the best year of his career and will most likely start him again this year. Lets be honest, Orton isn't showing up to OTAs because it's the "right thing to do" and because he's a "leader". Orton is taking a HUGE risk showing up without an official contract (if he were such a great guy and wanted to be here forever, he'd have already signed his tender offer) because if he gets hurt at OTAs, the Broncos don't have to pay him SHIT.

The Quinn trade was a straight up slap in the face to Orton as were Bowlen's offseason comments about drafting a young QB. Orton knows that with his limited skill set that the only way he stays the starter in Denver is to play ball (no pun intended) with the front office and be the most "ideal" team guy he can be. Do you think for one second if Orton skips all the offseason "voluntary" workouts and OTAs like Marshall and Dumervil, that McDaniels won't just use the time to develop Quinn and Brandstater to be the starter this year?

It really is dumb for the RFAs not signed to a contract to show up. Make no mistake, Orton is showing up on Friday because he's got to do everything in his power to keep his JOB, not because he's just that "team oriented" and stupid.

Great Post...

And I agree completely.

[Ravage!!!]

Simply put, Orton is vying for a job. Orton needs the Broncos a hell of a lot more than they need him. We just gave him the best year of his career and will most likely start him again this year. Lets be honest, Orton isn't showing up to OTAs because it's the "right thing to do" and because he's a "leader". Orton is taking a HUGE risk showing up without an official contract (if he were such a great guy and wanted to be here forever, he'd have already signed his tender offer) because if he gets hurt at OTAs, the Broncos don't have to pay him SHIT.

The Quinn trade was a straight up slap in the face to Orton as were Bowlen's offseason comments about drafting a young QB. Orton knows that with his limited skill set that the only way he stays the starter in Denver is to play ball (no pun intended) with the front office and be the most "ideal" team guy he can be. Do you think for one second if Orton skips all the offseason "voluntary" workouts and OTAs like Marshall and Dumervil, that McDaniels won't just use the time to develop Quinn and Brandstater to be the starter this year?

It really is dumb for the RFAs not signed to a contract to show up. Make no mistake, Orton is showing up on Friday because he's got to do everything in his power to keep his JOB, not because he's just that "team oriented" and stupid.

He was vying for a job BEFORE we hired Quinn. Now... they have flat out said.. "fine, sit out, don't show, or don't sign....we'll be ok." As you said, Orton needs us more than we need him.

I don't see why Marshall would want to show up. The coaches haven't really shown him a reason to believe they want him here. Everyone knows he's not going to be here. He wants to leave. I wouldnt' show up if I was certain the bosses were getting rid of me.

[Poet]

Why doesn't Orton get the benefit of the doubt? He's been nothing but classy and was considered a leader on your team last year. He went out on the field and played hurt and put himself at risk. It's easy to say that he needs Denver more than they need him.

It's also wrong. What has Quinn ever done or shown in the NFL? Nothing. He's shown you nothing. Orton's shown that he can at the very least not lose games. Quinn....hold on....one more minute....surely....oh..nope.


Odds are pretty good that Quinn will suck in Denver. Chris Simms sucks and Brandstater is Brandstater, wooohooo. It's not a knock on the guy, it's just that he's done nothing either, and yeah, he can't until you let him try, but I'll take a bet that he's nothing special as a QB.

[Ravage!!!]

Why doesn't Orton get the benefit of the doubt? He's been nothing but classy and was considered a leader on your team last year. He went out on the field and played hurt and put himself at risk. It's easy to say that he needs Denver more than they need him.

It's also wrong. What has Quinn ever done or shown in the NFL? Nothing. He's shown you nothing. Orton's shown that he can at the very least not lose games. Quinn....hold on....one more minute....surely....oh..nope.


Odds are pretty good that Quinn will suck in Denver. Chris Simms sucks and Brandstater is Brandstater, wooohooo. It's not a knock on the guy, it's just that he's done nothing either, and yeah, he can't until you let him try, but I'll take a bet that he's nothing special as a QB.


I agree.... but.... if you were Orton, would you REALLY count on that considering you've had to spend your entire career fighting for a starting job??

Knowing that the owner, himself, said he wants to draft a QB? Knowing the coach JUST traded for the guy he wanted ahead of Orton? You REALLLY think Orton is just "confident" in his starting role position so much that he can just miss any workout the team might have? Really?....... really?

[Lancane]

Why doesn't Orton get the benefit of the doubt? He's been nothing but classy and was considered a leader on your team last year. He went out on the field and played hurt and put himself at risk. It's easy to say that he needs Denver more than they need him.

It's also wrong. What has Quinn ever done or shown in the NFL? Nothing. He's shown you nothing. Orton's shown that he can at the very least not lose games. Quinn....hold on....one more minute....surely....oh..nope.


Odds are pretty good that Quinn will suck in Denver. Chris Simms sucks and Brandstater is Brandstater, wooohooo. It's not a knock on the guy, it's just that he's done nothing either, and yeah, he can't until you let him try, but I'll take a bet that he's nothing special as a QB.

Orton is nothing but a stop-gap journeyman starter who fit the bill when needed, he is not the franchise nor is he the future. And agreed, Quinn hasn't done anything, but then again...who in the hell in Cleveland has really done anything, that team could have ruined Peyton Manning.

[topscribe]

Quinn is nothing but a stop-gap journeyman starter who fit the bill when needed, he is not the franchise nor is he the future. And agreed, Orton hasn't done anything, but then again...who in the hell in Chicago has really done anything, that team could have ruined Peyton Manning.

Sorry about that. Just wanted to show you how interchangeable your comment is.

But then, there is one difference: Orton came here with a winning record . . . :coffee:

-----

[Northman]

Why doesn't Orton get the benefit of the doubt? He's been nothing but classy and was considered a leader on your team last year. He went out on the field and played hurt and put himself at risk. It's easy to say that he needs Denver more than they need him.

It's also wrong. What has Quinn ever done or shown in the NFL? Nothing. He's shown you nothing. Orton's shown that he can at the very least not lose games. Quinn....hold on....one more minute....surely....oh..nope.


Odds are pretty good that Quinn will suck in Denver. Chris Simms sucks and Brandstater is Brandstater, wooohooo. It's not a knock on the guy, it's just that he's done nothing either, and yeah, he can't until you let him try, but I'll take a bet that he's nothing special as a QB.


Although i agree that Quinn is hardly the answer at least on the surface this is just like the Plummer senario. Both players played hard but had limitations that for whatever reason didnt jive with the coaches. Now, i dont think this means that Orton isnt going to start but i truly believe that Orton can only take your so far much like Jake. Griese was the same way. Cutler has the skillset to be a top tier guy but he has some other issues that he needs to work on before he takes that next step. Unfortuantely for Orton, i dont believe that McD thought he was the longterm answer here and is working on getting someone behind him who may be able to take the reigns after this year.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Why doesn't Orton get the benefit of the doubt? He's been nothing but classy and was considered a leader on your team last year. He went out on the field and played hurt and put himself at risk. It's easy to say that he needs Denver more than they need him.

It's also wrong. What has Quinn ever done or shown in the NFL? Nothing. He's shown you nothing. Orton's shown that he can at the very least not lose games. Quinn....hold on....one more minute....surely....oh..nope.


Odds are pretty good that Quinn will suck in Denver. Chris Simms sucks and Brandstater is Brandstater, wooohooo. It's not a knock on the guy, it's just that he's done nothing either, and yeah, he can't until you let him try, but I'll take a bet that he's nothing special as a QB.

I'll give you a pass because you probably didn't spend too much time watching Broncos games last year, but if you haven't already noticed, Orton didn't do anything last year that any QB worthy of an NFL bench seat couldn't do. 3 yd curls and bubble screens galore - game after game. Checkdown, checkdown, eat the sack. The stats make Orton look great on paper, but if you watched him actually play you'd have seen a QB that NEVER LED his team anywhere. The defense led the team to victory. the offense just hung on and tried not to make too many mistakes.

How many times did you see the great "leader" Orton on the sideline firing up the team after one of his league-leading 3 & outs? NEVER. He just sat on the bench alone or stood next to McDaniels, normally being tongue lashed. Orton's a great guy, just not so much as a QB.

There's a reason that Bowlen publically stated that we want to draft a QB and that McDaniels traded for Quinn... It's called NOBODY believes Orton is the long term answer - not even Orton.

Quinn may not be the answer either, but the Front Office is saying in no uncertain terms right now that Orton isn't their guy.

[Lancane]

Sorry about that. Just wanted to show you how interchangeable your comment is.

But then, there is one difference: Orton came here with a winning record . . . :coffee:

-----

A winning record he got thanks to Chicago's great defense...riding coat-tails is not something to brag about. Just ask Dilfer-weed, yeah he is remembered as the idiot quarterback on a team that won the Superbowl without him.

:lol:

[topscribe]

I agree.... but.... if you were Orton, would you REALLY count on that considering you've had to spend your entire career fighting for a starting job??

Knowing that the owner, himself, said he wants to draft a QB? Knowing the coach JUST traded for the guy he wanted ahead of Orton? You REALLLY think Orton is just "confident" in his starting role position so much that he can just miss any workout the team might have? Really?....... really?

So far, Orton has had to spend NONE of his career fighting for a starting job.

In 2005, in his rookie year, Orton was considered the starter. Period. When
Grossman healed of his injury, they supplanted Orton and threw Grossman in
there because he was assumed to be the future. Bad mistake. If the Bears did
not have one of the best defenses in history, that would have been disastrous.

In 2006 and 2007 Orton was not given the chance to fight. Bad mistake, as
proven the next year.

In 2008, Orton and Grossman were pitched against each other for the starting
job. Orton won it so convincingly that, after the one game he did not play
because of his high ankle sprain, he was reinserted as starter over Grossman
the very next game, injury and all.

In 2009, Orton was very quickly named the starter, and he became firmly
entrenched with no threat whatsoever of losing it.

So, I repeat: Orton never had to fight for his starting job. This next year will
be the first, assuming Quinn is the quality QB some think he is, which he has
yet to prove.

-----

[topscribe]

A winning record he got thanks to Chicago's great defense...riding coat-tails is not something to brag about. Just ask Dilfer-weed, yeah he is remembered as the idiot quarterback on a team that won the Superbowl without him.

:lol:

Wrong again. Chicago was #30 in the league in 2008 in pass defense. That
hardly qualifies as even a good defense, let alone a "great" one.

True, Chicago did have a great defense in 2005. But Orton was thrown in there
as a rookie, too, and he went 10-5 in the games he played . . . as a rookie. That
hardly qualifies as an "idiot" QB. In fact, that is one of the attributes that drew
McDaniels to him: his intelligence.

The idiot that year was not the QB. The idiots were the ones who replaced him,
as his replacement proved in the postseason and the next two years, and in
2008, when he took the job back from his replacement . . .

-----

[Poet]

I'll give you a pass because you probably didn't spend too much time watching Broncos games last year, but if you haven't already noticed, Orton didn't do anything last year that any QB worthy of an NFL bench seat couldn't do. 3 yd curls and bubble screens galore - game after game. Checkdown, checkdown, eat the sack. The stats make Orton look great on paper, but if you watched him actually play you'd have seen a QB that NEVER LED his team anywhere. The defense led the team to victory. the offense just hung on and tried not to make too many mistakes.

How many times did you see the great "leader" Orton on the sideline firing up the team after one of his league-leading 3 & outs? NEVER. He just sat on the bench alone or stood next to McDaniels, normally being tongue lashed. Orton's a great guy, just not so much as a QB.

There's a reason that Bowlen publically stated that we want to draft a QB and that McDaniels traded for Quinn... It's called NOBODY believes Orton is the long term answer - not even Orton.

Quinn may not be the answer either, but the Front Office is saying in no uncertain terms right now that Orton isn't their guy.

They are my second team, I watched a decent amount of their games because Buffalo Wild Wings shows all the game and I don't need a 'pass'.

During the offseason I heard that Orton was going to suck, he wasn't going to do anything at all, he wasn't a leader, he wasn't accurate, he wouldn't be able to do anything with the offense and he couldn't tie his shoes.

Orton's play was fine. No, he doesn't have a rocket arm and wasn't going to light it up statistically. But he didn't lose you any games either, and he threw for 3,802 yards. That's not a small total by any stretch of the imagination.

Take a look at his game logs, he did his fair share. http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/gamelogs?id=ORT716150

Did he have some shitters? Oh yeah, he definitely did. I also saw him get violated when his interior line forgot how to block.

Is he the long term answer? Nope. Is he a 'franchise' QB? Nope. Is he a second stringer? No, and he certainly is better than the QB's sitting on the bench.

But, that stellar run game of yours definitely carri....awww...damn. Well, Your offensive line was really goo....awww....damn. But your defense definitely didn't fade out in the sec.....awww, they did.

And yes, he sucks at avoiding sacks. I'm sure glad your argument wouldn't be undermined if a lot of the best QB's playing today were just as ill-equipped to avoid pressure as him....aww...dammit again, my bad.

If Quinn beats out Orton I wouldn't be shocked if Orton gets his spot again. Quinn blows. It was a decent trade because of the potential of Quinn, but I don't think it's happening. And have fun running Simms or Brandstater out ahead of Orton.

You will be in need of him next year.

[Lancane]

Wrong again. Chicago was #30 in the league in 1998 in pass defense. That
hardly qualifies as even a good defense, let alone a "great" one.

True, Chicago did have a great defense in 1995. But Orton was thrown in there
as a rookie, too, and he went 10-5 in the games he played . . . as a rookie. That
hardly qualifies as an "idiot" QB. In fact, that is one of the attributes that drew
McDaniels to him: his intelligence.

-----

In 1998 the Bears had the 8th overall best defense and were 16th overall in passing...but I think you meant 2008...lol. In 2008 the Bears' defense was still 16th overall, the 5th best rushing defense...so while they were not so hot in the air, they still were a pretty stout defensive unit.

[topscribe]

In 1998 the Bears had the 8th overall best defense and were 16th overall in passing...but I think you meant 2008...lol. In 2008 the Bears' defense was still 16th overall, the 5th best rushing defense...so while they were not so hot in the air, they still were a pretty stout defensive unit.

[I did that on every damned one of them! Alzheimer's must be setting in early.] :confused:

Who cares what the rushing defense was? They could not run, so they passed.
No problem. Result? Orton had three games won in 2008 (did I get that right
this time?), only to have the defense collapse and tear them out of his hands.

Same effect last year. The Broncos were #3 in pass defense and #26 in rush
defense (#32 in the last half of the season). So what did the opponents do?
The ran! And the Broncos lost.

Both teams had piss poor defenses, regardless of the gaudy record in one
single aspect. Orton did not have a good defense behind him in either year.

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Orton has relied on the defense since being in the NFL. Just like this season, when we stopped shutting people out in the entire second half, he couldn't win.

Orton has always compteed for the starting job. He wasn't absolutely the starter, every year peopel were waiting and seeing who would win the job.... Orton or Grossman... Orton or Griese... this year... Orton or Simms. I mean, now we'll have to see if its Orton or Quinn.

Grossman, Griese, Simms, and Quinn. He's really had some serious serious competition at the QB spot.

The point is... Orton is the kind of QB that teams are ALWAYS trying to replace.... period. Whether thats replacing him with trades, or draft picks.

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Orton has relied on the defense since being in the NFL. Just like this season, when we stopped shutting people out in the entire second half, he couldn't win.

Orton has always compteed for the starting job. He wasn't absolutely the starter, every year peopel were waiting and seeing who would win the job.... Orton or Grossman... Orton or Griese... this year... Orton or Simms. I mean, now we'll have to see if its Orton or Quinn.

Grossman, Griese, Simms, and Quinn. He's really had some serious serious competition at the QB spot.

The point is... Orton is the kind of QB that teams are ALWAYS trying to replace.... period. Whether thats replacing him with trades, or draft picks.

Ravage, every time you say something about Orton, you demonstrate that
you know very little about him.

Anyway, this is about Marshall. :focus: (Me, too.)

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[TXBRONC]

Sorry about that. Just wanted to show you how interchangeable your comment is.

But then, there is one difference: Orton came here with a winning record . . . :coffee:

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What he did in Chicago is meaningless.

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What he did in Chicago is meaningless.

I guess my post is the only one you saw here?

Figures. :coffee:

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[jrelway]

They are my second team, I watched a decent amount of their games because Buffalo Wild Wings shows all the game and I don't need a 'pass'.

During the offseason I heard that Orton was going to suck, he wasn't going to do anything at all, he wasn't a leader, he wasn't accurate, he wouldn't be able to do anything with the offense and he couldn't tie his shoes.

Orton's play was fine. No, he doesn't have a rocket arm and wasn't going to light it up statistically. But he didn't lose you any games either, and he threw for 3,802 yards. That's not a small total by any stretch of the imagination.

Take a look at his game logs, he did his fair share. http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/gamelogs?id=ORT716150

Did he have some shitters? Oh yeah, he definitely did. I also saw him get violated when his interior line forgot how to block.

Is he the long term answer? Nope. Is he a 'franchise' QB? Nope. Is he a second stringer? No, and he certainly is better than the QB's sitting on the bench.

But, that stellar run game of yours definitely carri....awww...damn. Well, Your offensive line was really goo....awww....damn. But your defense definitely didn't fade out in the sec.....awww, they did.

And yes, he sucks at avoiding sacks. I'm sure glad your argument wouldn't be undermined if a lot of the best QB's playing today were just as ill-equipped to avoid pressure as him....aww...dammit again, my bad.

If Quinn beats out Orton I wouldn't be shocked if Orton gets his spot again. Quinn blows. It was a decent trade because of the potential of Quinn, but I don't think it's happening. And have fun running Simms or Brandstater out ahead of Orton.

You will be in need of him next year.

well there you go king87. thats the main reason why most dont trust him nor want him. you get pretty offensive when people cut down on orton. worry about your sorry ass bengals.

[claymore]

Clay, has there been any player that you can think of with off the field problems that held out and still got paid long term? I'm trying to come up with one off the top of my head, but I don't recall anyone. Peppers held out, but he had no off field issues. Marshall is going to have to weigh the risks of being a good soldier for a full year and raising his value against injury risk. I'm not sure which way he'll go, but I'm guessing that his agent will have a lot to do with his decision.

It wouldnt be holding out. He isnt under contract.

Javon Walker got paid, Moss got paid, both were worse than Marshall. They also got paid twice.

Not saying its going to happen. But its a possibility.

[claymore]

They are my second team, I watched a decent amount of their games because Buffalo Wild Wings shows all the game and I don't need a 'pass'.

During the offseason I heard that Orton was going to suck, he wasn't going to do anything at all, he wasn't a leader, he wasn't accurate, he wouldn't be able to do anything with the offense and he couldn't tie his shoes.

Orton's play was fine. No, he doesn't have a rocket arm and wasn't going to light it up statistically. But he didn't lose you any games either, and he threw for 3,802 yards. That's not a small total by any stretch of the imagination.

Take a look at his game logs, he did his fair share. http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/gamelogs?id=ORT716150

Did he have some shitters? Oh yeah, he definitely did. I also saw him get violated when his interior line forgot how to block.

Is he the long term answer? Nope. Is he a 'franchise' QB? Nope. Is he a second stringer? No, and he certainly is better than the QB's sitting on the bench.

But, that stellar run game of yours definitely carri....awww...damn. Well, Your offensive line was really goo....awww....damn. But your defense definitely didn't fade out in the sec.....awww, they did.

And yes, he sucks at avoiding sacks. I'm sure glad your argument wouldn't be undermined if a lot of the best QB's playing today were just as ill-equipped to avoid pressure as him....aww...dammit again, my bad.

If Quinn beats out Orton I wouldn't be shocked if Orton gets his spot again. Quinn blows. It was a decent trade because of the potential of Quinn, but I don't think it's happening. And have fun running Simms or Brandstater out ahead of Orton.

You will be in need of him next year.

For me its the 3 & Outs. I cant handle all 3 & outs. 3rd and 8 and they throw a screen 2 yards behind the LOS that nets them 3 yards. THat shit drives me Bananas.

Id rather lose 16 games watching a rookie sling the ball around than this boring ass stank offense.

[Poet]

well there you go king87. thats the main reason why most dont trust him nor want him. you get pretty offensive when people cut down on orton. worry about your sorry ass bengals.

There's a whole lot of 'franchise' QBs out there. You guys just traded for one. :lol:

Cincinnati is in pretty good shape.

[TXBRONC]

I guess my post is the only one you saw here?

Figures. :coffee:

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Ads usual you figure WRONG. ISTBY

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well there you go king87. thats the main reason why most dont trust him nor want him. you get pretty offensive when people cut down on orton. worry about your sorry ass bengals.

That's right. We don't need anybody standing up for Orton, do we?

Especially those who don't have any right to talk about the Broncos. :coffee:

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[dogfish]

I agree.... but.... if you were Orton, would you REALLY count on that considering you've had to spend your entire career fighting for a starting job??

Knowing that the owner, himself, said he wants to draft a QB? Knowing the coach JUST traded for the guy he wanted ahead of Orton? You REALLLY think Orton is just "confident" in his starting role position so much that he can just miss any workout the team might have? Really?....... really?

he should be. . . he could sleep through the first month of the season and still be a better QB for us than brady quinn!


*shrugs*

who knows-- maybe brandstater is a threat to his job. . . .


oh wait, brandon marshall-- sorry! :lol:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Wrong again. Chicago was #30 in the league in 2008 in pass defense. That
hardly qualifies as even a good defense, let alone a "great" one.

True, Chicago did have a great defense in 2005. But Orton was thrown in there
as a rookie, too, and he went 10-5 in the games he played . . . as a rookie. That
hardly qualifies as an "idiot" QB. In fact, that is one of the attributes that drew
McDaniels to him: his intelligence.

The idiot that year was not the QB. The idiots were the ones who replaced him,
as his replacement proved in the postseason and the next two years, and in
2008, when he took the job back from his replacement . . .

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In 2005, Orton had 8 TDs and 13 INTs as the starter. Everyone knows that the Bears were successful that year because their defense was very good and Devin Hester was damned near unstoppable as a returner. Kyle Orton just kept Grossman's seat warm for him until he recovered from injury. Everyone who watched football that year knows that. Once again, I can throw W/L records at you all day long, but you win and lose as a team, and Orton doesn't have a "winning record" here in Denver, does he?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If Quinn beats out Orton I wouldn't be shocked if Orton gets his spot again. Quinn blows. It was a decent trade because of the potential of Quinn, but I don't think it's happening. And have fun running Simms or Brandstater out ahead of Orton.

You will be in need of him next year.

Unfortunately, you may be right, however we shouldn't be in this position right now. IIRC, we had this pro-bowl QB once....

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In 2005, Orton had 8 TDs and 13 INTs as the starter. Everyone knows that the Bears were successful that year because their defense was very good and Devin Hester was damned near unstoppable as a returner. Kyle Orton just kept Grossman's seat warm for him until he recovered from injury. Everyone who watched football that year knows that. Once again, I can throw W/L records at you all day long, but you win and lose as a team, and Orton doesn't have a "winning record" here in Denver, does he?

I think I did say the Bears won because of their defense, did I not? Your eyes
bothering you tonight or something?

I also pointed out what a mistake it was to give Grossman's warm seat to him.
Are you aware of Grossman's "accomplishments" in the postseason that year?
Would you like to compare them to the rookie Orton's accomplishments that
year?

Did you want to make some sort of point, or was your intent just to argue?
Why the hell is it so important for you naysayers to try to convince us as to
how "bad" Orton is? If you want me to give you the URL to Webster's so you
can look up the word "positive," I would be glad to . . .

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[topscribe]

Unfortunately, you may be right, however we shouldn't be in this position right now. IIRC, we had this pro-bowl QB once....

Oh yeah, I think I remember . . . that guy with 27 INTs and 76.8 QBR.

Yeah, yeah, that's right . . . :nod:

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[Poet]

Unfortunately, you may be right, however we shouldn't be in this position right now. IIRC, we had this pro-bowl QB once....

Who threw a bitch fit when McDaniels looked at other QBs and then wanted the same thing that pissed him off in the first place....We've done this before.