Rank the Broncos Draft Board

[WARHORSE]

Ok. This is a little bit different than anything we've ever done. I want you to rank the top 15 players only in the draft as you see the Broncos lookin at em. This has NOTHING to do with TEAM NEEDS. In other words, dont rank Ellis above Jake Long on Denvers draft board just because you think they would draft Ellis before Long should both be on the board. This is about the Broncos looking at the players according to what SCHEMEs they employ. In other words, a big fat NT would not rank high on Denvers boards because they dont run the 3-4. A WR that blocks would rank higher than another with similar play ability, who struggled with blocking. A RB that has problems with blitz pickup is not ranked as high as one that does. And athletic OTs who are great run blockers and decent pass blockers are favored over OTs that excel at pass blocking but are only adequate in the run game. An immobile QB is not favored in Denver.

Everyone understand?
(Im gonna regret this..............:tsk:)


Anyways, the more guys we get to do this, the better. I have something in mind.


Im gonna work on my list...........be back to post it.

[WARHORSE]

1. Glenn Dorsey

2. Jake Long

3. Darren McFadden

4. Chris Long

5. Matt Ryan

6. Sedrick Ellis

7. Rashard Mendenhall

8. Vernon Gholston

9. Brandon Albert

10. Chris Williams

11. Ryan Clady

12. Kentwan Balmer

13. K. Rivers

14. Calais Campbell

15. Phillip Merling




Johnathan Stewart may have made it in there were it not for his injury.

[BOSSHOGG30]

1. Glenn Dorsey

2. Jake Long

3. Sederick Ellis

4. Vernon Gholston

5. Jonathan Stewart

6. Chris Williams

7. Darren McFadden

8. Reshard Mendenhall

9. Dan Connor

10. Jeff Otah

11. Brandon Albert

12. Ryan Clady

13. Kentwan Balmer

14. Calais Campbell

15. Limas Sweed

[mclark]

I don't see how you can disregard need. I WOULD NOT draft Matt Ryan ever at #12 so he's not on my list. Also, I don't want a wide receiver or a tight end at #12. Also, I left some good cornerbacks off my list because I don't see the Broncos being in the market at #12.

1. Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2 Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
3 Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC
4 Chris Long, DE, Virginia
5 Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State
6 Brandon Albert, OG/OT, Virginia
7 Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State
8 Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illionois
9 Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
10 Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
11 Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
12 Dan Connor, MLB, Penn State
13 Kenny Phillips, S, Miami
14 Keith Rivers, OLB, USC
15 Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina

The ideal would be for us to trade back for a couple picks at take Jonathan Stewart and Chris Williams/Jeff Otah or maybe even Sam Baker. I don't see us taking Stewart at #12 now.

[WARHORSE]

1. Glenn Dorsey

2. Jake Long

3. Sederick Ellis

4. Vernon Gholston

5. Jonathan Stewart

6. Chris Williams

7. Darren McFadden

8. Reshard Mendenhall

9. Dan Connor

10. Jeff Otah

11. Brandon Albert

12. Ryan Clady

13. Kentwan Balmer

14. Calais Campbell

15. Limas Sweed


I know this is opinion only, but you are basically saying we are going to draft Jonathan Stewart, injury and all. I dont think he ranks that high on their board with the surgery............just a thought.

[haroldthebarrel]

Cool. I am in the midst of creating my very own thread to whom I suspect will be our fab five for this draft.

To put it this way, we seem to be quite lucky in that the crop of cbs and rbs seems to be very good pushing people down to us. Even giving us the option to trade down with guys in our fab five there just because other teams will draft positions that isnt in our need areas.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Matt Ryan War?

[Rex]

I know this is opinion only, but you are basically saying we are going to draft Jonathan Stewart, injury and all. I dont think he ranks that high on their board with the surgery............just a thought.

Boss and Stewart are dating. Please disregard his biased opinion.


P.S.
Tony Hunt is pissed about this.:D

[BOSSHOGG30]

I know this is opinion only, but you are basically saying we are going to draft Jonathan Stewart, injury and all. I dont think he ranks that high on their board with the surgery............just a thought.

I don't see his toe surgery as a big deal.... He will be back by training camp. He knows and has proven he can play through injury and what better team to draft him than the Denver Broncos.... A team with an aging RB with an injury history a mile long and bad character issues. Some people will say, hey hold on a minute... we have Selvin Young and Andre Hall. I say we still need a big back that can come in when Young and Hall can't. We need a kick returner. We need a feature back to go a long with our young offensive coordinator, young QB, young WR, young line, and young TE.

[underrated29]

dorsey
gholston
ellis
chris long
stewart
comrartie
devin thomas
kenny phillips
rivers
connor
williams
dmac
clady
balmer
sweed

I mgiht ahve gotten this wrong, but i did it where say we have 15 guys ranked as our top- not where we pick just 15 guys that our in our top 15. Assuming value and such is out the window and its just guys only.

[haroldthebarrel]

I am guessing we are looking closely at James Hardy if we were to take a receiver with the first rounder. He appears to fit our scheme well along with the upside to go.
I can see Malcolm Kelly or Devin Thomas as well.

One thought about receivers in the first though. Often when Denver is rumoured to take a position it is often not the player mentioned that is on our radar. Since there has been some talk about Desean Jackson I would suspect that we are looking at receivers just not him........ just conjecture of course.

[WARHORSE]

I don't see how you can disregard need. I WOULD NOT draft Matt Ryan ever at #12 so he's not on my list. Also, I don't want a wide receiver or a tight end at #12. Also, I left some good cornerbacks off my list because I don't see the Broncos being in the market at #12.




I think that Denver looks for corners that will tackle so I dont see them ranking those in the draft very high. But Ryan is a QB that I think fits exactly what Denver does, and if he fell to twelve, I think Denver would draft him knowing his value. He has been P. Manningesque in study, and his physical ability is substantial.

Im not exactly sure if Denver would actually take him, but it depends on how they view it all. If they look at it as you do, then I understand them passing. But I dont think any team, regardless of need, takes Kenny Phillips over Matt Ryan.

If they actually use need to rank the board vs best player available, then Matt Ryan is off the top 15 for myself as well.


But if theyre taking the best available athlete regardless of position......Ryan is where hes at.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Yeah, have Ryan and Cutler on the same team.. Hmmmm, doesn't make sense...

[BOSSHOGG30]

Yeah, have Ryan and Cutler on the same team.. Hmmmm, doesn't make sense...

that would be a lot of money for a bench player...maybe if Al Davis was running the show I could see it happening.

[mclark]

I think that Denver looks for corners that will tackle so I dont see them ranking those in the draft very high. But Ryan is a QB that I think fits exactly what Denver does, and if he fell to twelve, I think Denver would draft him knowing his value. He has been P. Manningesque in study, and his physical ability is substantial.

Im not exactly sure if Denver would actually take him, but it depends on how they view it all. If they look at it as you do, then I understand them passing. But I dont think any team, regardless of need, takes Kenny Phillips over Matt Ryan.

If they actually use need to rank the board vs best player available, then Matt Ryan is off the top 15 for myself as well.


But if theyre taking the best available athlete regardless of position......Ryan is where hes at.

I think Ryan is a #4 qb in a good qb year. I can't comprehend us drafting him no matter what. He may make a good pro qb but no way we take him. I think he's the most likely guy to fall in the first round.

[WARHORSE]

Yeah, have Ryan and Cutler on the same team.. Hmmmm, doesn't make sense...

If John Elway were on the board at 12 and we still have Cutler, do you take him?


No brainer.

If the other teams are good picking up other players, your gain.


I know the comparisons are bleak, but its still correct. Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, and some rank him as the number one player in the draft.


Ryan would soon be dealt, for future draft picks and players Im sure. If Shannys draft strategy is: " if youre picking in the top 15, you take the best available player," then you dont disregard any position.


Is it possible thats not true? Entirely.

But Im going on the assuption it is, and Ryan is a better pick than many of the other players imo.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If John Elway were on the board at 12 and we still have Cutler, do you take him?


No brainer.

If the other teams are good picking up other players, your gain.


I know the comparisons are bleak, but its still correct. Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, and some rank him as the number one player in the draft.


Ryan would soon be dealt, for future draft picks and players Im sure. If Shannys draft strategy is: " if youre picking in the top 15, you take the best available player," then you dont disregard any position.


Is it possible thats not true? Entirely.

But Im going on the assuption it is, and Ryan is a better pick than many of the other players imo.


Matt Ryan is the #1 QB prospect among one of the worst QB classes to come out in quite some time.... I wouldn't compare his #1 status to the likes of John Elway.

[JONtheBRONCO]

If John Elway were on the board at 12 and we still have Cutler, do you take him?


No brainer.

If the other teams are good picking up other players, your gain.


I know the comparisons are bleak, but its still correct. Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, and some rank him as the number one player in the draft.


Ryan would soon be dealt, for future draft picks and players Im sure. If Shannys draft strategy is: " if youre picking in the top 15, you take the best available player," then you dont disregard any position.


Is it possible thats not true? Entirely.

But Im going on the assuption it is, and Ryan is a better pick than many of the other players imo.

But Matt Ryan isn't John Elway. For all I know he could be the next Ryan Leaf... And with other teams knowing we had Jay Cutler, and Matt Ryan I would think it would lower the value of Ryan..

[Scarface]

I think that Denver looks for corners that will tackle so I dont see them ranking those in the draft very high. But Ryan is a QB that I think fits exactly what Denver does, and if he fell to twelve, I think Denver would draft him knowing his value. He has been P. Manningesque in study, and his physical ability is substantial.

Im not exactly sure if Denver would actually take him, but it depends on how they view it all. If they look at it as you do, then I understand them passing. But I dont think any team, regardless of need, takes Kenny Phillips over Matt Ryan.

If they actually use need to rank the board vs best player available, then Matt Ryan is off the top 15 for myself as well.


But if theyre taking the best available athlete regardless of position......Ryan is where hes at.

No way in hell Denver would draft him. If anything they would try to trade the pick to a QB hungry team knowing that Carolina picks after us and would take him.

[nevcraw]

Matt Ryan is the next Jake Plummer

[broncohead]

Matt Ryan is the next Jake Plummer

Then we have to get him... LOL

[mclark]

If John Elway were on the board at 12 and we still have Cutler, do you take him?


No brainer.

If the other teams are good picking up other players, your gain.


I know the comparisons are bleak, but its still correct. Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, and some rank him as the number one player in the draft.


Ryan would soon be dealt, for future draft picks and players Im sure. If Shannys draft strategy is: " if youre picking in the top 15, you take the best available player," then you dont disregard any position.


Is it possible thats not true? Entirely.

But Im going on the assuption it is, and Ryan is a better pick than many of the other players imo.

Are you saying Matt Ryan is another John Elway? Wow -- I don't evaluate him that way.

[haroldthebarrel]

Are you saying Matt Ryan is another John Elway? Wow -- I don't evaluate him that way.

I dont think that is what he is saying. What he is saying is that qb is a valued position more so than others, and if you by chance have a shot at one you take it because almost always will other teams trade for that pick.

I think the most recent example of that was the NYG who took Rivers even though he wasnt the number one on their draft board and gambled that other teams would trade for him.

A better example(who doesnt involve as much gambling) is Atlanta when when they took Schaub in the third even though they had no need for qb at the time and plenty of other needs around the roster. He just posed too much value for them at the time.
Buffalo did the same last year with Trent Edwards even though Losman had a pretty good season before that and was looked upon by many as a potential franchise qb.

But the very best example of getting excellent value for qbs in the draft was Green Bay under Ron Wolf. Even though they had Favre they would almost always take a qb in the draft as well as always take one if the qb was currently number one in their all position value board.
In doing so they received plenty of traded players to fill the need on their roster as well as getting higher picks in the end.

[Lonestar]

I dont think that is what he is saying. What he is saying is that qb is a valued position more so than others, and if you by chance have a shot at one you take it because almost always will other teams trade for that pick.

I think the most recent example of that was the NYG who took Rivers even though he wasnt the number one on their draft board and gambled that other teams would trade for him.

A better example(who doesnt involve as much gambling) is Atlanta when when they took Schaub in the third even though they had no need for qb at the time and plenty of other needs around the roster. He just posed too much value for them at the time.
Buffalo did the same last year with Trent Edwards even though Losman had a pretty good season before that and was looked upon by many as a potential franchise qb.

But the very best example of getting excellent value for qbs in the draft was Green Bay under Ron Wolf. Even though they had Favre they would almost always take a qb in the draft as well as always take one if the qb was currently number one in their all position value board.
In doing so they received plenty of traded players to fill the need on their roster as well as getting higher picks in the end.

They were banking on ELI not playing in SAN, Manning's family let it be known that he wanted to come to NYC so he would play against his brother in the AFC.. Not a huge gamble on the giants part IMO..

For many years many fans and folks thought Farve was through would never get them back to glory days.. Which indeed was what happened.. Not so sure they did not take the QB's for replacing Farve SOON.

I also suspect ATL took him because some thought vick would never be a QB which also proved to be true..

Many teams do HOWEVER take BPA.. Not something I'd like mikey to do UNLESS it was a Postion of need..

[mclark]

I dont think that is what he is saying. What he is saying is that qb is a valued position more so than others, and if you by chance have a shot at one you take it because almost always will other teams trade for that pick.

I think the most recent example of that was the NYG who took Rivers even though he wasnt the number one on their draft board and gambled that other teams would trade for him.

A better example(who doesnt involve as much gambling) is Atlanta when when they took Schaub in the third even though they had no need for qb at the time and plenty of other needs around the roster. He just posed too much value for them at the time.
Buffalo did the same last year with Trent Edwards even though Losman had a pretty good season before that and was looked upon by many as a potential franchise qb.

But the very best example of getting excellent value for qbs in the draft was Green Bay under Ron Wolf. Even though they had Favre they would almost always take a qb in the draft as well as always take one if the qb was currently number one in their all position value board.
In doing so they received plenty of traded players to fill the need on their roster as well as getting higher picks in the end.

I do understand and appreciate the idea of finding Matt Ryan at #12 and seeking to put together a quick trade down to someone who really needs a qb THIS YEAR. But I don't see us actually drafting Ryan, paying him what a first round draft pick gets, so he can sit on our bench behind Cutler while our needs at offensive and defensive tackle and linebacker and safety and wide receiver are just put on hold for later in the draft.

If Jake Plummer was still our qb, I could see us drafting Ryan. But we don't really have the luxury of holding a first-round backup qb on our roster while we wait for some team to come along in year or two and offer us a ghird round pick for him.

I would not be surprised to see Ryan available when we pick at 12 and for us to just let him keep on falling, if we can't make that trade down. No way we'd take him.

[TXBRONC]

I do understand and appreciate the idea of finding Matt Ryan at #12 and seeking to put together a quick trade down to someone who really needs a qb THIS YEAR. But I don't see us actually drafting Ryan, paying him what a first round draft pick gets, so he can sit on our bench behind Cutler while our needs at offensive and defensive tackle and linebacker and safety and wide receiver are just put on hold for later in the draft.

If Jake Plummer was still our qb, I could see us drafting Ryan. But we don't really have the luxury of holding a first-round backup qb on our roster while we wait for some team to come along in year or two and offer us a ghird round pick for him.

I would not be surprised to see Ryan available when we pick at 12 and for us to just let him keep on falling, if we can't make that trade down. No way we'd take him.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If Ryan is there when pick look to trade down if there is no interest let him slide. Like you I think that is what Denver would do.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Ryan is no Elway, but he's also no Leaf. His game has no similarities to Plummer's. If I was gonna compare him to a QB in the league now (and the school is a coincidence), it's be Hasselbeck in Seattle.

[haroldthebarrel]

Ryan is no Elway, but he's also no Leaf. His game has no similarities to Plummer's. If I was gonna compare him to a QB in the league now (and the school is a coincidence), it's be Hasselbeck in Seattle.

I would take him with a top ten pick if I was sure he would have a career like Hasselback. Would any of you guys do the same?
Great comparison btw.

Give Ryan an above average line and some few weapons on offense and I think he could be a pretty good one. I really hope he doesnt fall to the Ravens as that would make Ravens along with the Pats, Colts, Steelers and Chargers contenders for the next ten five to ten years.

Should he fall to us, and that should be highly unlikely, I think both Bears and the Vikings as well as maybe the Bucs would be competing against eachother to trade up with us.

The worst case scenario for all AFC teams would be if he was still there when the Pats pick allowing them another trade like they did in 2003 with the Ravens.

Come to think of it, I have a very hard time seeing Ryan fall beyond the Ravens pick. New coaches love to take qbs to rebuild. and the Ravens really underachieved last year.

[WARHORSE]

Matt Ryan is the #1 QB prospect among one of the worst QB classes to come out in quite some time.... I wouldn't compare his #1 status to the likes of John Elway.

Read the post again.

It doesnt matter. Im looking at how 'WARHORSE' ranks as compared to the other players in the draft.

See?:confused:





;)

[WARHORSE]

I dont think that is what he is saying. What he is saying is that qb is a valued position more so than others, and if you by chance have a shot at one you take it because almost always will other teams trade for that pick.

I think the most recent example of that was the NYG who took Rivers even though he wasnt the number one on their draft board and gambled that other teams would trade for him.

A better example(who doesnt involve as much gambling) is Atlanta when when they took Schaub in the third even though they had no need for qb at the time and plenty of other needs around the roster. He just posed too much value for them at the time.
Buffalo did the same last year with Trent Edwards even though Losman had a pretty good season before that and was looked upon by many as a potential franchise qb.

But the very best example of getting excellent value for qbs in the draft was Green Bay under Ron Wolf. Even though they had Favre they would almost always take a qb in the draft as well as always take one if the qb was currently number one in their all position value board.
In doing so they received plenty of traded players to fill the need on their roster as well as getting higher picks in the end.


Wow........someone who actually reads what is written.........thanks Harold.:salute:

[WARHORSE]

No way in hell Denver would draft him. If anything they would try to trade the pick to a QB hungry team knowing that Carolina picks after us and would take him.


You could very well be correct, and probably are. But you should rank their draft board according to how you evaluate the players for Denver.............according to Scar.


Im interested in knowing, and my list is getting pummelized because of Ryans placement. Thats fine...........but can we each list our own thoughts?:beer:

[TXBRONC]

1. Glenn Dorsey

2. Jake Long

3. Darren McFadden

4. Chris Long

5. Matt Ryan

6. Sedrick Ellis

7. Rashard Mendenhall

8. Vernon Gholston

9. Brandon Albert

10. Chris Williams

11. Ryan Clady

12. Kentwan Balmer

13. K. Rivers

14. Calais Campbell

15. Phillip Merling




Johnathan Stewart may have made it in there were it not for his injury.


My ranking is that much differnt than yours. It's mostly just putting them in a different order and I do have Stewart in my ranking and I wouldn't put Matt Ryan in because I could see Denver down instead of taking him. I'm not as up ratings of these prospects as those of you who follow the scouting but what from what I have gathered on my own and from the comments of you draft nicks.

1. Glen Dorsey

2. Sedrick Ellis

3. Darren McFadden

4. Jake Long

5. Jonathan Stewart

6. Rashard Mendenall

7. Brendan Alberts

8. Jeff Otah

9. Chris Williams

10. Ryan Clady

11. Keith Rivers

12. Chris Long

13. Vernon Gholston

14. Calais Campbell

15. Kentwan Balmer

[Scarface]

I would take him with a top ten pick if I was sure he would have a career like Hasselback.

Hasselbeck is a system qb. I wouldn't take a system qb that high unless he fit my system.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Okay War, after looking back at this thread I think we were a little too hard on ya...

[WARHORSE]

Okay War, after looking back at this thread I think we were a little too hard on ya...

Not really. I understand the point of view of not drafting Ryan and agree with it. What I put was an assumption of Denvers higher ups under a certain criteria.................Im guessing. Same with the rest of us. The thread just went in another direction...........imagine that.:confused:

Anyway, continue to post your thoughts of the Broncos rankings if you would, and later I'll point something out to consider............or maybe not. lol.......:confused:

[TXBRONC]

Not really. I understand the point of view of not drafting Ryan and agree with it. What I put was an assumption of Denvers higher ups under a certain criteria.................Im guessing. Same with the rest of us. The thread just went in another direction...........imagine that.:confused:

Anyway, continue to post your thoughts of the Broncos rankings if you would, and later I'll point something out to consider............or maybe not. lol.......:confused:

Hey I've stayed with topic and even gave you my take on the top 15 on Denver's draft board. :beer:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

My realistic top 10 includes Ellis, Otah, Williams, Mendenhall, Stewart, Phillips, Mayo, Merling, Harvey and Albert (no particular order).

Yes...I still want Phillips and Mayo is a stud. I think I like what we did at LB via FA, but I'm not necessarily sold on it at the same time. We draft Mayo and let he and Niko fight it out. Loser (Niko) gets to be a special teams stud. As I've said before, a larger DE could be moved inside on pass downs and rush the QB from the inside. Picture it...3rd and 10 and the OLine has to deal with Moss, Elvis, Crowder AND Merling/Harvey? Scary thought. The OTs and RBs are common sense and don't need explanations.

The best teams draft BPA. Sorry. It's the truth. Look at NE now and Pitt of the 70s. Other than QB, CB and TE there is no undraftable spot on our team at #12 (and given the FA status of Foxxy and Paymah and the salary of Bly, an argument could be made for CB as well). Get whoever is the best talent. Chances are, he'll beat out who we currently have at his position.

[broncohead]

We have Crowder who can move inside on passing downs and rush the passer. No need to add a 4th guy who is young to that possition. Elvis, Moss, and Crowder are all young. Let them meture.

Top 11- Dorsey, Ellis, McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Connor, Rivers, Phillips, Claddy, Otah, and Williams in no paticular order.

[Lonestar]

We have Crowder who can move inside on passing downs and rush the passer. No need to add a 4th guy who is young to that possition. Elvis, Moss, and Crowder are all young. Let them meture.

Top 11- Dorsey, Ellis, McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Connor, Rivers, Phillips, Claddy, Otah, and Williams in no paticular order.

so what are you gonna do on rushing downs which are usually twice as many as passing downs?

Everyone one wants sexy. You have to have basics first..

dorsey, mcfaden, mendenhall, clady most likely will not be there at 12 we need another OLB like a boar needs teats so that leaves Williams, otah phillips none f which save Williams are #12 worthy..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Otah is easily worth a pick at 12.

As far as a bigger DE goes, why not have a 4th young guy? Our older guys are below average. I'd love to have 4 young studs grow and mature together...much like NYG has done. It's no accident that they drafted Tuck and Kiwi even though they had Strahan and Osi.

[Lonestar]

Otah is easily worth a pick at 12.

As far as a bigger DE goes, why not have a 4th young guy? Our older guys are below average. I'd love to have 4 young studs grow and mature together...much like NYG has done. It's no accident that they drafted Tuck and Kiwi even though they had Strahan and Osi.

BUT they have a real GM also..

[broncohead]

so what are you gonna do on rushing downs which are usually twice as many as passing downs?

Everyone one wants sexy. You have to have basics first..

dorsey, mcfaden, mendenhall, clady most likely will not be there at 12 we need another OLB like a boar needs teats so that leaves Williams, otah phillips none f which save Williams are #12 worthy..

Ummm... Put the DT back in and take out a DE. We need DTs that can stop the run. I don't know where you get "sexy" from my post.

[broncohead]

Otah is easily worth a pick at 12.

As far as a bigger DE goes, why not have a 4th young guy? Our older guys are below average. I'd love to have 4 young studs grow and mature together...much like NYG has done. It's no accident that they drafted Tuck and Kiwi even though they had Strahan and Osi.

I'm only against it because we have other hole to fill. If we didn't have so many holes to fill and a DE was BPA then yes I would take him. But not when we have needs all over the roster. I wouldn't mind a late round end.

[Lonestar]

We have Crowder who can move inside on passing downs and rush the passer. No need to add a 4th guy who is young to that possition. Elvis, Moss, and Crowder are all young. Let them meture.

Top 11- Dorsey, Ellis, McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Connor, Rivers, Phillips, Claddy, Otah, and Williams in no paticular order.



Ummm... Put the DT back in and take out a DE. We need DTs that can stop the run. I don't know where you get "sexy" from my post.

When the first two on your list have almost ZERO chance of falling to us the the next three are Sexy opposed to being useful well I took it as you being like most folks thinking that a RB will alleve all of our issues and instantly bring us back to respectability..

Sorry if that was not what you were trying to project..

I'll repeat it once again you win and lose on the LOS..

BTW crowder should be nothing but a disaster DT if no one else is availble due to injuries..

[TXBRONC]

Otah is easily worth a pick at 12.

As far as a bigger DE goes, why not have a 4th young guy? Our older guys are below average. I'd love to have 4 young studs grow and mature together...much like NYG has done. It's no accident that they drafted Tuck and Kiwi even though they had Strahan and Osi.


Agreed Otah is worth the 12th overall pick. There are several others who are also worthy but most definitely Otah would be worth the 12 overall pick.

[broncohead]

When the first two on your list have almost ZERO chance of falling to us the the next three are Sexy opposed to being useful well I took it as you being like most folks thinking that a RB will alleve all of our issues and instantly bring us back to respectability..

Sorry if that was not what you were trying to project..

I'll repeat it once again you win and lose on the LOS..

BTW crowder should be nothing but a disaster DT if no one else is availble due to injuries..

Crowder is no DT but on passing situations he could slide inside. He is big enough on the inside on passing downs. The top guys that I listed were in no order. As far as the DTs not falling to us I'm aware of that but we can always trade up. I'd rather have a top DT or OT over a RB but if all else fails RB would be the next option. Top 5: Dorsey, Ellis, Clady, Otah, and Williams in order. Hows that?

[Lonestar]

Crowder is no DT but on passing situations he could slide inside. He is big enough on the inside on passing downs. The top guys that I listed were in no order. As far as the DTs not falling to us I'm aware of that but we can always trade up. I'd rather have a top DT or OT over a RB but if all else fails RB would be the next option. Top 5: Dorsey, Ellis, Clady, Otah, and Williams in order. Hows that?

Crowder can IMO play DT in emergency situations only he just is not big enough to play in there consistently.

Dorsey and Eilis I can almost understand but not if we have to give up more than foxworthless and One of the following 4,5 or 7 to move up on draft day..

clady only if Williams is gone.. he played in a weak conference and when they played out of conference was not nearly as effective, is a junior and does not have the quality experience Williams does..

If those three are gone then I'd like to look at RB not mcfadden, but Stewart.. I never want another RB under 230 pounds they simply can't survive in todays NFL long term. Where most Defensive players in the front 7 are now usually 240+.

I'd rather trade back a couple of picks and try and pick up a 3rd. Where we can get value on another DT/OT on day two..

[haroldthebarrel]

Crowder is no DT but on passing situations he could slide inside. He is big enough on the inside on passing downs. The top guys that I listed were in no order. As far as the DTs not falling to us I'm aware of that but we can always trade up. I'd rather have a top DT or OT over a RB but if all else fails RB would be the next option. Top 5: Dorsey, Ellis, Clady, Otah, and Williams in order. Hows that?

I think we resigned Ekuban in large part because of his ability to slide inside.
Good points on Crowder though. I have thought the same in that I kinda got the idea that he would be an above average defensive end at best but he does share some similarities with Rod Coleman and LaRoi Glover that he might be a stud inside.

[Lonestar]

I think we resigned Ekuban in large part because of his ability to slide inside.
Good points on Crowder though. I have thought the same in that I kinda got the idea that he would be an above average defensive end at best but he does share some similarities with Rod Coleman and LaRoi Glover that he might be a stud inside.

Get real here..

Most DT start at 295 going to 350..


6'4" 275 simply is not big enough to play inside coinsistently.. at 290 it would be an issue. As an emergency/disaster DT OK but he will get ground up and spit out trying to make a career of it..

just a sample of DT's 30 or more tackles except for coleman that you meneion had 22 tackles. I added in tackles and sacks at the end of each line..

Justin Bannan | #94 | DT Ravens 6-3 Weight: 310 Age: 28 30/2
Rocky Bernard | #99 | DT Hawks 6-3 Weight: 308 Age: 28 35/0
Brodrick Bunkley | #97 | DT Eaglesl 6-2 Weight: 306 Age: 24 31.3
Rod Coleman | #75 | DT Falcons | Height: 6-2 Weight: 293 Age: 31 7/2
La'Roi Glover | #97 | DT Rams | Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 Age: 33 39/6
Kelly Gregg | #97 | NT Ravens | Height: 6-0 Weight: 310 Age: 31 80/3
Cornelius Griffin | #96 | DT Redskins | : 6-3 Weight: 311 Age: 31 42/2.5
Tommie Harris | #91 | DT Bears | ight: 6-3 Weight: 298 Age: 24 36/8
Chris Hovan | #95 | DT Buccaneers | : 6-2 Weight: 299 Age: 29 48/1.5
Kris Jenkins | # | DT Jets | Height: 6-4 Weight: 335 Age: 28 38/2.5
Ed Johnson | #99 | DT Colts|Height: 6-2 Weight: 296 Age: 24 41/1
Travis Johnson | #99 | DT Texans |: 6-3 Weight: 315 Age: 25 41/0
Maake Kemoeatu| #99|DT Panthers |: 6-5 Weight: 350 Age: 29 46/0
Michael Myers | #96 | DT Bungals |: 6-2 Weight: 300 Age: 32 34/1
Haloti Ngata | #92 | DT Ravens | ht: 6-4 Weight: 340 Age: 24 63/3
Ryan Pickett | #79 | DT Packers |** 6-2 Weight: 322 Age: 28 39/1
Sione Pouha | #91 | DT Jets | ht: 6-3 Weight: 325 Age: 29 40/0
Cory Redding | #78 | DT Lions |ht: 6-4 Weight: 295 Age: 27 37/1
Shaun Rogers | # | DT Browns| ht: 6-4 Weight: 340 Age: 29 39/7
Clifton Ryan | #95 | DT Rams | ht: 6-3 Weight: 310 Age: 24 30/2
Marcus Stroud | # | DT Bills | ht: 6-6 Weight: 310 Age: 29 22/3
John Thornton | #97| DT Bengals| 6-3 Weight: 297 Age: 31 32/1
Corey Williams | # | DTBrowns |ht: 6-4 Weight: 313 Age: 27 35/7
Jamal Williams | #76 | DT bolts|ht: 6-3 Weight: 348 Age: 31 39/0
Rodrique Wright|#90| DT phins|ht: 6-5 Weight: 305 Age: 23 38/1.5
Bryant Young | #97 | DT 49ers|ht: 6-3 Weight: 305 Age: 36 35/6.5



What do all of these have in common 300+ POUNDS..

Why do you all want to try and make a sows ear into a silk purse.. If you want a real DT draft one.. mikey has everyone snowed into thinking that you can convert players from one spot to another and expect excellence.. Perhaps we can get by with some one like that but:

WHY does everyone want to GET BY?

[haroldthebarrel]

Get real here..

Most DT start at 295 going to 350..


6'4" 275 simply is not big enough to play inside coinsistently.. at 290 it would be an issue. As an emergency/disaster DT OK but he will get ground up and spit out trying to make a career of it..

just a sample of DT's 30 or more tackles except for coleman that you meneion had 22 tackles. I added in tackles and sacks at the end of each line..

Justin Bannan | #94 | DT Ravens 6-3 Weight: 310 Age: 28 30/2
Rocky Bernard | #99 | DT Hawks 6-3 Weight: 308 Age: 28 35/0
Brodrick Bunkley | #97 | DT Eaglesl 6-2 Weight: 306 Age: 24 31.3
Rod Coleman | #75 | DT Falcons | Height: 6-2 Weight: 293 Age: 31 7/2
La'Roi Glover | #97 | DT Rams | Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 Age: 33 39/6
Kelly Gregg | #97 | NT Ravens | Height: 6-0 Weight: 310 Age: 31 80/3
Cornelius Griffin | #96 | DT Redskins | : 6-3 Weight: 311 Age: 31 42/2.5
Tommie Harris | #91 | DT Bears | ight: 6-3 Weight: 298 Age: 24 36/8
Chris Hovan | #95 | DT Buccaneers | : 6-2 Weight: 299 Age: 29 48/1.5
Kris Jenkins | # | DT Jets | Height: 6-4 Weight: 335 Age: 28 38/2.5
Ed Johnson | #99 | DT Colts|Height: 6-2 Weight: 296 Age: 24 41/1
Travis Johnson | #99 | DT Texans |: 6-3 Weight: 315 Age: 25 41/0
Maake Kemoeatu| #99|DT Panthers |: 6-5 Weight: 350 Age: 29 46/0
Michael Myers | #96 | DT Bungals |: 6-2 Weight: 300 Age: 32 34/1
Haloti Ngata | #92 | DT Ravens | ht: 6-4 Weight: 340 Age: 24 63/3
Ryan Pickett | #79 | DT Packers |** 6-2 Weight: 322 Age: 28 39/1
Sione Pouha | #91 | DT Jets | ht: 6-3 Weight: 325 Age: 29 40/0
Cory Redding | #78 | DT Lions |ht: 6-4 Weight: 295 Age: 27 37/1
Shaun Rogers | # | DT Browns| ht: 6-4 Weight: 340 Age: 29 39/7
Clifton Ryan | #95 | DT Rams | ht: 6-3 Weight: 310 Age: 24 30/2
Marcus Stroud | # | DT Bills | ht: 6-6 Weight: 310 Age: 29 22/3
John Thornton | #97| DT Bengals| 6-3 Weight: 297 Age: 31 32/1
Corey Williams | # | DTBrowns |ht: 6-4 Weight: 313 Age: 27 35/7
Jamal Williams | #76 | DT bolts|ht: 6-3 Weight: 348 Age: 31 39/0
Rodrique Wright|#90| DT phins|ht: 6-5 Weight: 305 Age: 23 38/1.5
Bryant Young | #97 | DT 49ers|ht: 6-3 Weight: 305 Age: 36 35/6.5



What do all of these have in common 300+ POUNDS..

Why do you all want to try and make a sows ear into a silk purse.. If you want a real DT draft one.. mikey has everyone snowed into thinking that you can convert players from one spot to another and expect excellence.. Perhaps we can get by with some one like that but:

WHY does everyone want to GET BY?

The point is that his body should be able to gain 30 lbs and still have one of the best first steps among DEs. Didnt the Giants play a lot with four and five ends this year. I know they subbed Tuck with a tackle.
Its along those lines I am conjecturing.

Oh didnt read the last part. I wanna have DT as well. In fact i want two. I am one of those who really thinks the game is won in the trenches really.

[Lonestar]

The point is that his body should be able to gain 30 lbs and still have one of the best first steps among DEs. Didnt the Giants play a lot with four and five ends this year. I know they subbed Tuck with a tackle.
Its along those lines I am conjecturing.

Most players can't put on 30 pounds and still have a first great step/move..

And why would you want to there are big bodies out there in the draft..


He is a damned fine DE which BTW we are not overloaded with to start with....

Everyone likes to reinvent the wheel WHY?

Occasionally I have no issues with it but why would you have him put on that much weight for spot duty?..

NYG front line
- DE -
92 M. Strahan DE 6-5 Weight: 255 Age: 36
91 J. Tuck is a DE
- DT -
96 B. Cofield : 6-4 Weight: 306 Age: 24
94 W. Joseph
75 M. Wright
- DT -
98 F. Robbins | #96 | 6-4 Weight: 306 Age: 24
93 J. Alford
- DE -
72 O. Umenyiora | #72 | 6-3 Weight: 261 Age: 26
71 D. Tollefson
http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkgiants/depthchart?team=NYG

With Strahan and Umenyiora being the studs here something we do not YET have..

I have enough concerns with Slows DC prowess.. We do not need to experiment unless we have to..

[broncohead]

Get real here..

Most DT start at 295 going to 350..


6'4" 275 simply is not big enough to play inside coinsistently.. at 290 it would be an issue. As an emergency/disaster DT OK but he will get ground up and spit out trying to make a career of it..

just a sample of DT's 30 or more tackles except for coleman that you meneion had 22 tackles. I added in tackles and sacks at the end of each line..

Justin Bannan | #94 | DT Ravens 6-3 Weight: 310 Age: 28 30/2
Rocky Bernard | #99 | DT Hawks 6-3 Weight: 308 Age: 28 35/0
Brodrick Bunkley | #97 | DT Eaglesl 6-2 Weight: 306 Age: 24 31.3
Rod Coleman | #75 | DT Falcons | Height: 6-2 Weight: 293 Age: 31 7/2
La'Roi Glover | #97 | DT Rams | Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 Age: 33 39/6
Kelly Gregg | #97 | NT Ravens | Height: 6-0 Weight: 310 Age: 31 80/3
Cornelius Griffin | #96 | DT Redskins | : 6-3 Weight: 311 Age: 31 42/2.5
Tommie Harris | #91 | DT Bears | ight: 6-3 Weight: 298 Age: 24 36/8
Chris Hovan | #95 | DT Buccaneers | : 6-2 Weight: 299 Age: 29 48/1.5
Kris Jenkins | # | DT Jets | Height: 6-4 Weight: 335 Age: 28 38/2.5
Ed Johnson | #99 | DT Colts|Height: 6-2 Weight: 296 Age: 24 41/1
Travis Johnson | #99 | DT Texans |: 6-3 Weight: 315 Age: 25 41/0
Maake Kemoeatu| #99|DT Panthers |: 6-5 Weight: 350 Age: 29 46/0
Michael Myers | #96 | DT Bungals |: 6-2 Weight: 300 Age: 32 34/1
Haloti Ngata | #92 | DT Ravens | ht: 6-4 Weight: 340 Age: 24 63/3
Ryan Pickett | #79 | DT Packers |** 6-2 Weight: 322 Age: 28 39/1
Sione Pouha | #91 | DT Jets | ht: 6-3 Weight: 325 Age: 29 40/0
Cory Redding | #78 | DT Lions |ht: 6-4 Weight: 295 Age: 27 37/1
Shaun Rogers | # | DT Browns| ht: 6-4 Weight: 340 Age: 29 39/7
Clifton Ryan | #95 | DT Rams | ht: 6-3 Weight: 310 Age: 24 30/2
Marcus Stroud | # | DT Bills | ht: 6-6 Weight: 310 Age: 29 22/3
John Thornton | #97| DT Bengals| 6-3 Weight: 297 Age: 31 32/1
Corey Williams | # | DTBrowns |ht: 6-4 Weight: 313 Age: 27 35/7
Jamal Williams | #76 | DT bolts|ht: 6-3 Weight: 348 Age: 31 39/0
Rodrique Wright|#90| DT phins|ht: 6-5 Weight: 305 Age: 23 38/1.5
Bryant Young | #97 | DT 49ers|ht: 6-3 Weight: 305 Age: 36 35/6.5



What do all of these have in common 300+ POUNDS..

Why do you all want to try and make a sows ear into a silk purse.. If you want a real DT draft one.. mikey has everyone snowed into thinking that you can convert players from one spot to another and expect excellence.. Perhaps we can get by with some one like that but:

WHY does everyone want to GET BY?

My point was that if we get into situations like 3rd and 15 or 4th and 10+ we could slide Crowder inside to rush the passer. Moss, Thomas, Crowder, and Elvis all rushing the passer because it will be a pass.

[Lonestar]

My point was that if we get into situations like 3rd and 15 or 4th and 10+ we could slide Crowder inside to rush the passer. Moss, Thomas, Crowder, and Elvis all rushing the passer because it will be a pass.


I was under the impression you wanted him to put on 30 pounds and become a DT.. IS that not what you where pointing to in the 30 pounds and not lose a step post?


What you just posted is consistent with my he'd due in a pinch idea I stated above..


We win or lose at the LOS this team has consistently tired to slide by with inferior physical specimens since mikey has come to town..

We have been except the first couple of years with the HOF ZIM and crew had NO prime time OLINE and almost NO great players on the DLINE..

We have been beat up forever on the LOS

Now is the time in space to reverse that it is time to start dedicating prime draft choice to LOS types..

We started last year hopefully getting three studs.. finish it off this year and spend something more than rounds 4-7 on them..


If you want a Mustang GT you do not buy a Pinto or LTD and hope you can make them into a Mustang..

Those are facts of life in the real world why mikey seems to think he is wonderful and can do it consistently is beyond my comprehension..

He struck gold a couple of times DAFTING on day two.. NOW he seems to be banking on it.. to prove to the world he is the MASTERMIND again..

[TXBRONC]

We have Crowder who can move inside on passing downs and rush the passer. No need to add a 4th guy who is young to that possition. Elvis, Moss, and Crowder are all young. Let them meture.

Top 11- Dorsey, Ellis, McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Connor, Rivers, Phillips, Claddy, Otah, and Williams in no paticular order.

It sounds like you're envisioning something along the lines what the Giants do with all their defensive ends.

[broncohead]

It sounds like you're envisioning something along the lines what the Giants do with all their defensive ends.

I'm hoping that Moss isn't a 1st round bust and can produce at the level everone thought he could when he was drafted. Elvis will probably be a pass rush specialist throught his career and Crowder hopefully will be the every down DE that can stop the run and rush the passer. If all that is true Crowder can slide inside on obvious passing downs and Moss and Elvis can come in and rush from the edge. Yes similar to what the giants do.

[TXBRONC]

I'm hoping that Moss isn't a 1st round bust and can produce at the level everone thought he could when he was drafted. Elvis will probably be a pass rush specialist throught his career and Crowder hopefully will be the every down DE that can stop the run and rush the passer. If all that is true Crowder can slide inside on obvious passing downs and Moss and Elvis can come in and rush from the edge. Yes similar to what the giants do.

We do need to give him chance to improve. Sometimes it takes a couple of seasons for them to develop. Before he got injuried in my opinion he looked to improving as the season went on.

[Scarface]

The staff has talked about Crowder playing inside on passing downs since the day we drafted him.

[Lonestar]

The staff has talked about Crowder playing inside on passing downs since the day we drafted him.

That does not surprise me at all mikey is the mastermind afterall..

He can do wonders with RB's therefore can turn 275 pound DEs into solid DT's in a single bound..


Not sure what his fetish is about remaking every player he drafts..

One would think it you want a DT you draft ONE..

If you want a MLB why not draft a Safety with hopes of converting him?

Because he was successful at converting A big slow WR into a great TE and a TE into a good OLT.. Does not mean that he is God like it appears he thinks he is..

Because some folks still buy into his BS does not make it facts of life..

I'm sure the comments were made with the thought of Crowder as a real long term project or disaster DT. someone that could play it if they had no one else..

He currently has the frame and weight for a DE with a good motor, nice first step adding 30 pounds probably would negate that... Again why not just draft someone that has played the position and we do not have to convert him..

What is the old term KISS.

So far not all of those draft choices he has made have worked out. Maybe it is time for KISS.

[TXBRONC]

It was Bates' idea. :coffee:

[Scarface]

The Giants do the same thing with Justin Tuck and it works pretty well for them.

[WARHORSE]

That does not surprise me at all mikey is the mastermind afterall..

He can do wonders with RB's therefore can turn 275 pound DEs into solid DT's in a single bound..


Not sure what his fetish is about remaking every player he drafts..

One would think it you want a DT you draft ONE..

If you want a MLB why not draft a Safety with hopes of converting him?

Because he was successful at converting A big slow WR into a great TE and a TE into a good OLT.. Does not mean that he is God like it appears he thinks he is..

Because some folks still buy into his BS does not make it facts of life..

I'm sure the comments were made with the thought of Crowder as a real long term project or disaster DT. someone that could play it if they had no one else..

He currently has the frame and weight for a DE with a good motor, nice first step adding 30 pounds probably would negate that... Again why not just draft someone that has played the position and we do not have to convert him..

What is the old term KISS.

So far not all of those draft choices he has made have worked out. Maybe it is time for KISS.


As if we're the first team to move one of our DEs inside on a passing down.:confused:

This happens all the time, and while I agree with you in saying Crowder does not have the bulk to stay inside, I disagree that Shanny is trying to 'remake' Crowder.

Crowder is a big De, and will probably get bigger. As well, should he put on some more weight and strength, he could very well turn into an all pro dominating DT, along the lines of Trevor Pryce in his heyday.

Is that in our plans? I doubt it. But if its the best thing for the team, rest assured thats what will happen.

[Lonestar]

As if we're the first team to move one of our DEs inside on a passing down.:confused:

This happens all the time, and while I agree with you in saying Crowder does not have the bulk to stay inside, I disagree that Shanny is trying to 'remake' Crowder.

Crowder is a big De, and will probably get bigger. As well, should he put on some more weight and strength, he could very well turn into an all pro dominating DT, along the lines of Trevor Pryce in his heyday.

Is that in our plans? I doubt it. But if its the best thing for the team, rest assured thats what will happen.

Yes I know everyone does it occasionally, lets just hope we can get a premier DT in this draft something to build the franchise on. That alleviates the playing games with smallish SKINNY DEs.

Keep It Simple Stupid should be the battlecry in Dove valley until such time as we are being able to draft BPA in each slot because we have a great team.. And then were are drafting for depth/comptetion or to replace players that are going to be FA next year..


Draft the sure things, not betting on the come lines for a maybe stud..

[broncohead]

I'm not 100% on this but I think that Crowder ran a faster 40 then Moss. I don't think we will be converting him to DT inless he gains 15 pounds and becomes really slow.