Report: Bucs, Broncos Discuss Blockbuster

[DenBronx]

http://www.draftheadquarters.com/dhqblogs/?p=677

I’m reporting that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Denver Broncos are in discussions that would send star wide receiver Brandon Marshall to Tampa Bay and would involve the 3rd and 11th picks in the 2010 NFL Draft.

Tampa Bay has been looking to upgrade their receiving core, and adding a player like Marshall would help propel their offense into the future. With the third pick in the draft, it is believed that the Broncos would likely be looking at Tennessee safety Eric Berry.

From what I’ve been told, the teams would swap first round picks with additional picks potentially being involved in the deal.

Continue to stay tuned at Draft Headquarters for the best coverage of the 2010 NFL Draft.

[Ziggy]

Is this anything other than like "joe's blog?"

[Tom Nalen]

Eric Berry is not worth our 11 and Marshall. HELL NO! Marshall for their first round..then yes, but we shouldn't have to give up our pick as well

[DenBronx]

I'm not too sure but if they are in real talks then K2 better come into the picture because that's alot for us to give up only to go after Berry #3 overall. That would staple in my mind that Josh really doesn't know what he is doing. If we we're to land Bradford or Suh then I would like it. But if we're giving up Marshall AND #11 then I would expect a 2nd or player as well.

I actually like the idea of staying at 11 (not in the top 10 so way less money to pay) and taking ILB McClain. If we are going to deal Marshall then we need to add picks not swap picks. We would then have to draft a WR in round 1 or 2.

[DenBronx]

Eric Berry is not worth our 11 and Marshall. HELL NO! Marshall for their first round..then yes, but we shouldn't have to give up our pick as well

It wouldn't suprise me.

[ikillz0mbies]

PASS! If this is the way it goes down, then I would start to rethink how I feel about the personnel decisions. Marshall AND the 11 for the number 3 to get Eric Berry? Don't think so, no way in hell. Berry is not worth the 3rd pick. He could even fall to the 11. You trade up to land either Suh or McCoy and keep the 11th. That would be the only reasonable trade.

[Midnight Blue]

So essentially we'd be placing Marshall's trade value at "moving up 8 places in the draft" rather than at "a first-round draft pick". Not much value at all for a bona fide #1 WR... a guy who has proven that he can step it up and be a gamechanger.

[LordTrychon]

So essentially we'd be placing Marshall's trade value at "moving up 8 places in the draft" rather than at "a first-round draft pick". Not much value at all for a bona fide #1 WR... a guy who has proven that he can step it up and be a gamechanger.

They were discussing this elsewhere, and you'll get the draftniks who will pull out their chart that says that the value in that move is equivalent to the #17 overall pick.

I think the rumor is unfounded, or there's more picks involved. I don't see this happening. I just wanted to look smart by reposting what others have said.

Although, I'm not a fan of the value chart. Hmmm.

[#1dolphinfan]

For brady quinn's sake I hope you guys keep Marshall unless bill parcells would swallow his pride and trade for a diva WR.

[Ziggy]

For brady quinn's sake I hope you guys keep Marshall unless bill parcells would swallow his pride and trade for a diva WR.

No way that Parcell's spends a first on Marshall. He's way too smart for that.

[WARHORSE]

Well, its definitely NOT going to be a matter of trading Marshall and our 11 for their third.

Thats not happening.

Id say Marshall and our 11 and a 7th for their 3 AND their second might be something that interested me.

But it would NOT be for Mr. Berry.

It would be for McCoy, Suh or Bradford.

Not only that, but for us to get the third would be huge if Bradford was not selected by the Rams.

Rumours have Washington inquiring about Carriker from the Rams. If that took place, you could all but assure us of an extra pick.

Washington would have to give up a third to us in order to get Bradford.

The other option is to give a second to Detroit.

This to ensure they get Bradford.

That, of course would be if Denver didnt want Bradford themselves.

I wonder if Denver wants to get Bradford vs Washington.

I wonder if this could end up being the stirring of some kind of rivalry between Shanny and Bowlen..........HMMmmmmm.

[#1dolphinfan]

No way that Parcell's spends a first on Marshall. He's way too smart for that.

If we are considering a WR in the first we better look at Marshall I know parcells doesn't like divas but I would love to see Marshall in Miami that would give Chad henne a great target.

[NameUsedBefore]

There would have to be other players and picks involved for sure, but even then I'm not really that hot on having the third pick nor anything we'd have to give up to get there.

[WARHORSE]

TampaBay has the 3rd and the 10th selections in the second round.


If it involved either one of those picks, IM THERE.


Marshall and our 11th for the third and one of those second rounders?


Yup.

Not for Berry, but for one of the big three. Suh, McCoy or Bradford.

[Midnight Blue]

They were discussing this elsewhere, and you'll get the draftniks who will pull out their chart that says that the value in that move is equivalent to the #17 overall pick.

I think the rumor is unfounded, or there's more picks involved. I don't see this happening. I just wanted to look smart by reposting what others have said.

Although, I'm not a fan of the value chart. Hmmm.

We'd be trading known value... almost straight across... for potential value. I understand the draftniks but the fact is that for every Peyton Manning there's a Ryan Leaf (expensive bust; not at all worth what a team has to give up for him). Draft picks are not a sure thing; and poor draft choices can be costly (see: Paul Toviessi in the 2nd round and Maurice Clarett in the 3rd...don't think Toviessi was ever healthy enough to play a down for the Broncos and Clarett never even made it through preseason).

[silkamilkamonico]

**** that trade.

We just invested a lot of money among the dline for veteran players.

We just made a trade for QUinn, who will push Orton, and apparently try and fight off Brandstater.

We'd invest in another player with a giganto signing bonus among both those positions.

lame

[Dirk]

I wouldn't mind giving BMarsh up for the 3rd. But that's it. Stay hardlined McD. Make someone give value or give Brandon a wake-up call that people don't think he is worth that kind of money and keep him.

Either way we win.

[Traveler]

Just a blogger floating some bullshit.

[Elevation inc]

lol could you imagine this board.....if we traded pick 11 and marshall to tampa for there 3rd overall pick and a third rd pick....i dont even wanna know.....

heck it would be even funnier if we used that 3rd pick to select jimmy clausen or sam bradford.....lol....

im sorry but if this is true i see major breakdown coming to this board...mods get ready....


hopefully MCd swindles them and we get the 3rd overall pick, and one of there second rd picks....for marshall and our 11th.....that tips the value scale to us........


the 3rd overall pick could net us N suh or gerald mccoy.....think about that people......

[claymore]

Quinn could be a smoke screen. If McD does go thru with this and he is posturing to draft a QB (Bradford) unopposed by another QB needy team (Cleveland), he would earn allot of respect from me.

This would essentially leapfrog almost every team trying to move up. Unless St louis wants Bradford.

Then we take Berry or McCoy (DT) as a backup plan.

Just a thought. If I said anything more retarded than usual, Im still tired.

[Nomad]

I would rather the 2 early 2nd rds if anything and have them throw in a 6th! Clausen isn't worth the 3rd, I'd rather sign Marshall to a big contract than get Clausen!! This is one I'd pass on and like someone said moreorless BS!!

[Tned]

We'd be trading known value... almost straight across... for potential value. I understand the draftniks but the fact is that for every Peyton Manning there's a Ryan Leaf (expensive bust; not at all worth what a team has to give up for him). Draft picks are not a sure thing; and poor draft choices can be costly (see: Paul Toviessi in the 2nd round and Maurice Clarett in the 3rd...don't think Toviessi was ever healthy enough to play a down for the Broncos and Clarett never even made it through preseason).

All of the "trade Marsahall, we can replace him with the picks we get" folks seem to miss the fact that there are far, far more misses in the draft than stars drafted. The Broncos have dropped a fair number of first day picks on WR's that have almost all turned out to be bombs (Royal being one of the few exceptions).

[CoachChaz]

I would rather the 2 early 2nd rds if anything and have them throw in a 6th! Clausen isn't worth the 3rd, I'd rather sign Marshall to a big contract than get Clausen!! This is one I'd pass on and like someone said moreorless BS!!

That's what I'm thinking. I would go after their two early 2nd rounders. That would probably be the max value they'd give up and it would increase the chance of seeing Pouncey on the board.

[xzn]

So essentially we'd be placing Marshall's trade value at "moving up 8 places in the draft" rather than at "a first-round draft pick". Not much value at all for a bona fide #1 WR... a guy who has proven that he can step it up and be a gamechanger.

Moving up from 11 to 3 is the same value as the 14th pick according to this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

So it's really more like trading Marshall to Seattle to get back our natural 14 pick and then using that pick and our 11 from Chicago to move up to 3 :listen:

[claymore]

All of the "trade Marsahall, we can replace him with the picks we get" folks seem to miss the fact that there are far, far more misses in the draft than stars drafted. The Broncos have dropped a fair number of first day picks on WR's that have almost all turned out to be bombs (Royal being one of the few exceptions).
The people that want to get rid of Marshall think his character is more of a gamble than a draft pick would be.

Marshall will fight McDaniels 100% of the way if he stays. McD doesnt have the leadership skills, patience, or personality to put up with a sassy oft in trouble WR.

In short, i think most think its better to just get rid of him to avoid the drama. Our team is devoid of character as it is, we dont want it to take on Marshalls.

[SOCALORADO.]

Just a blogger floating some bullshit.

So we have folks who are actually discussing what some 10th grader made up on his blog?
Jeez, this place is turning into BM.

[WARHORSE]

So we have folks who are actually discussing what some 10th grader made up on his blog?
Jeez, this place is turning into BM.

Of course its being discussed.

What else is there to do?:D

[SOCALORADO.]

Of course its being discussed.

What else is there to do?:D

Yeah, i knew it was coming.

[CoachChaz]

The people that want to get rid of Marshall think his character is more of a gamble than a draft pick would be.

Marshall will fight McDaniels 100% of the way if he stays. McD doesnt have the leadership skills, patience, or personality to put up with a sassy oft in trouble WR.

In short, i think most think its better to just get rid of him to avoid the drama. Our team is devoid of character as it is, we dont want it to take on Marshalls.

Need more tissues?

[EMB6903]

TampaBay has the 3rd and the 10th selections in the second round.


If it involved either one of those picks, IM THERE.


Marshall and our 11th for the third and one of those second rounders?


Yup.

Not for Berry, but for one of the big three. Suh, McCoy or Bradford.

Berry is going to be better then all 3.


Berrys impact his rookie year in the league~~~~~>Marshall's impact his 5th year in the league.


He hits like Sean Taylor and covers the field like Ed Reed.

I know im hyping this kid up a lot but he really is that good.

[FanInAZ]

So we have folks who are actually discussing what some 10th grader made up on his blog?
Jeez, this place is turning into BM.

I finally got curious enough to actually click on the link and went snooping around in order to find out what if any credentials this blogger actually has. I went to the site's home page and clicked on the "About Us" tab and found these claims:

http://www.draftheadquarters.com/about.htm

About Shawn Zobel


In the last two years, there has not been a more accurate analyst for NFL Draft coverage than that of Shawn Zobel.

His in-depth notes and detailed research of every player has been shown in his Draft Previews, the most recent being 160 pages with 226 player profiles.

What has made Shawn into one of the most accurate draft analysts in the nation is his outstanding accuracy in his mock drafts. In the last two years Shawn's mock drafts have out-scored nearly every draft analyst in the country, including both Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay of ESPN. In 2009, Shawn correctly picked 13 of the 32 selections in the first round; this is the best in the nation by any major media outlet covering the draft. See below for statistics:

Draft Accuracy 2008 NFL Draft 2009 NFL Draft
Shawn Zobel 10/31 picks correct 13/32 picks
Mel Kiper Jr. 8/31 9/32
Todd McShay 5/31 6/32

Year after year, Shawn has proven that he has what it takes to compete with the best NFL Draft analysts in the nation. His opinions and draft rankings are used by national publications and throughout the internet.

In the past three years, Shawn has provided insight, analysis, and scouting reports for both NFL and college teams. His Draft Preview has also become known as one of the most accurate NFL Draft publications available.

Shawn lives in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and is available for radio, print, and television interviews.

[Chris90210]

http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/files/1484/ooooooHHHHH.gif

[SOCALORADO.]

I finally got curious enough to actually click on the link and went snooping around in order to find out what if any credentials this blogger actually has. I went to the site's home page and clicked on the "About Us" tab and found these claims:

http://www.draftheadquarters.com/about.htm

About Shawn Zobel


In the last two years, there has not been a more accurate analyst for NFL Draft coverage than that of Shawn Zobel.

His in-depth notes and detailed research of every player has been shown in his Draft Previews, the most recent being 160 pages with 226 player profiles.

What has made Shawn into one of the most accurate draft analysts in the nation is his outstanding accuracy in his mock drafts. In the last two years Shawn's mock drafts have out-scored nearly every draft analyst in the country, including both Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay of ESPN. In 2009, Shawn correctly picked 13 of the 32 selections in the first round; this is the best in the nation by any major media outlet covering the draft. See below for statistics:

Draft Accuracy 2008 NFL Draft 2009 NFL Draft
Shawn Zobel 10/31 picks correct 13/32 picks
Mel Kiper Jr. 8/31 9/32
Todd McShay 5/31 6/32

Year after year, Shawn has proven that he has what it takes to compete with the best NFL Draft analysts in the nation. His opinions and draft rankings are used by national publications and throughout the internet.

In the past three years, Shawn has provided insight, analysis, and scouting reports for both NFL and college teams. His Draft Preview has also become known as one of the most accurate NFL Draft publications available.

Shawn lives in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and is available for radio, print, and television interviews.


Further proving that this assclown is full of shit.
thanks for posting that useless crap.
Gee, i wonder if he writes this crap himself.

[FanInAZ]

Further proving that this ******** is full of ****.
thanks for posting that useless ****.
Gee, i wonder if he writes this **** himself.

Actually its quite useful. No where did it say that he's actually affiliated with any sports news organizations, the NFL or any other media outlet that would give him the ability to obtain insider information. He just made a bunch of claim that he didn't substantiate by providing links that would confirm that he was more accurate then the ESPN annalists. He also said that he wrong about 2/3 or the time.

[SOCALORADO.]

Actually its quite useful. No where did it say that he's actually affiliated with any sports news organizations, the NFL or any other media outlet that would give him the ability to obtain insider information. He just made a bunch of claim that he didn't substantiate by providing links that would confirm that he was more accurate then the ESPN annalists. He also said that he wrong about 2/3 or the time.

Being more "accurate" than an E!SPN analyst is easy.
Just make about 17 different mocks. Your bound to get close.

And if you look at his one response, its clear hes full O shit.

[claymore]

I would like to say that the Glazers are to cheap to pay Marshall. They are more likely to trade the #3 overall pick for a 3rd round pick to avoid the contract.

[Lancane]

So essentially we would be trading who many in the NFL consider the best young receiver in the league, along with the 11th overall pick to Tampa Bay for roughly the 3rd overall pick. Then drafting a safety, even though the team is high on the young safeties we already have on the roster.

It's not impossible, but very unlikely...

There are ways to see value within a deal, as long as the deal actually did more for both sides then what has been stated.

[Northman]

Tampa is out of their mind.

[Traveler]

I finally got curious enough to actually click on the link and went snooping around in order to find out what if any credentials this blogger actually has. I went to the site's home page and clicked on the "About Us" tab and found these claims:

http://www.draftheadquarters.com/about.htm

About Shawn Zobel


In the last two years, there has not been a more accurate analyst for NFL Draft coverage than that of Shawn Zobel.

His in-depth notes and detailed research of every player has been shown in his Draft Previews, the most recent being 160 pages with 226 player profiles.

What has made Shawn into one of the most accurate draft analysts in the nation is his outstanding accuracy in his mock drafts. In the last two years Shawn's mock drafts have out-scored nearly every draft analyst in the country, including both Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay of ESPN. In 2009, Shawn correctly picked 13 of the 32 selections in the first round; this is the best in the nation by any major media outlet covering the draft. See below for statistics:

Draft Accuracy 2008 NFL Draft 2009 NFL Draft
Shawn Zobel 10/31 picks correct 13/32 picks
Mel Kiper Jr. 8/31 9/32
Todd McShay 5/31 6/32

Year after year, Shawn has proven that he has what it takes to compete with the best NFL Draft analysts in the nation. His opinions and draft rankings are used by national publications and throughout the internet.

In the past three years, Shawn has provided insight, analysis, and scouting reports for both NFL and college teams. His Draft Preview has also become known as one of the most accurate NFL Draft publications available.

Shawn lives in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and is available for radio, print, and television interviews.


re: Shawn Zobel:

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii273/Papi728/MISC/nl9xjb.jpg

[Lancane]

Tampa is out of their mind.

I tend to agree, but it is no great secret that Miami is also thinking of possibly doing something to try and get Marshall as well. He is a hot commodite - behind closed doors, but not publicly. We do have to remember that in the state of Florida, Marshall is somewhat more beloved then he would be say in Minnesota, or here at this time...because he is a product of one of the states' athletic programs: see Tebow for further info...lol.

He is well received in the state, he would boost any of the organizations there not only with their respective fandom, but likewise on the field.

[Northman]

I tend to agree, but it is no great secret that Miami is also thinking of possibly doing something to try and get Marshall as well. He is a hot commodite - behind closed doors, but not publicly. We do have to remember that in the state of Florida, Marshall is somewhat more beloved then he would be say in Minnesota, or here at this time...because he is a product of one of the states' athletic programs: see Tebow for further info...lol.

He is well received in the state, he would boost any of the organizations there not only with their respective fandom, but likewise on the field.

Oh, i dont disgree with that but i just cant see Denver giving up the #11 pick in the process. I just dont know what Tampa has outside of their 1st rounder to offer that would even be appealing at this point unless they want to give up Ruud. But they dont even use a 3-4 do they?

[SR]

I'd be moderately peeved if we pulled the trigger on that trade.

[Ravage!!!]

we do understand that no one is going to give a top 6 or a top 3 for Marshall, right? So for us to trade for a pick that high, its not going to be a simple trade. They aren't going to give us the value of the 17th pick, and a 2nd rounder when the tender was a 1st. Seattle isn't going to give us the 6th and a player.

Its not like these teams are trading for a player that the coach loves. They will be trading for a player the coach wants to get rid of. Granted, with the best value, but you don't offer up the 3rd pick in the draft. That would be terrible management by the Bucs.

Seattle might offer a deal for the 14th pick, while the Bucs might offer up the 17th value, and maybe some exchange of late round picks next year (or whatevers).

Personally I'll be shocked if we end up with a 1st round pick at all. I'm still thinking that a 2nd round this year (maybe a player?) and a 3 or 4th next.

[Lancane]

Oh, i dont disgree with that but i just cant see Denver giving up the #11 pick in the process. I just dont know what Tampa has outside of their 1st rounder to offer that would even be appealing at this point unless they want to give up Ruud. But they dont even use a 3-4 do they?

Well, look at it from different point of views North... What value is there in a trade, firstly we could switch the value of the picks, so Denver swaps the first three picks with Tampa Bay, or maybe pick up their extra second round pick if we throw in Kuper. There are ways to sell this trade, but they would take some heavy dealing to make it worth it. If we simply traded Marshall and switched first round picks, then I too would be irked with McDaniels and company.

[Lancane]

we do understand that no one is going to give a top 6 or a top 3 for Marshall, right? So for us to trade for a pick that high, its not going to be a simple trade. They aren't going to give us the value of the 17th pick, and a 2nd rounder when the tender was a 1st. Seattle isn't going to give us the 6th and a player.

Its not like these teams are trading for a player that the coach loves. They will be trading for a player the coach wants to get rid of. Granted, with the best value, but you don't offer up the 3rd pick in the draft. That would be terrible management by the Bucs.

Seattle will probably offer a deal for the 14th pick, while the Bucs will offer up the 17th value, and maybe some exchange of late round picks next year (or whatevers).

Personally I'll be shocked if we end up with a 1st round pick at all. I'm still thinking that a 2nd round this year (maybe a player?) and a 3 or 4th next.

Good point Rav, however...this could be just an initial probing, to see if Denver would be open to it. I would not be surprised if Seattle offered up their second first round pick for Marshall as we get closer to the draft, San Francisco might even get into the mix. This is far from over, it's barely begun.

[T.K.O.]

the jets have a solid D,running game and probably are set at qb for a while.
they have 2 2nd round picks and shot their wad on sanchez last year( financially that is)the one major area of need they have is a playmaking reciever....enter brandon marshall.
i see no reason why they would not be willing to trade their #3 and a 2nd for marshall and our #11.
it makes sense for both clubs,as marshall would thrive in the "bright lights" of the big apple and would get all the attention he wants (not to mention a fat payday) and mcD would be able to address a needy d-line by drafting a stud at #3 and still have 2 2nd's and a third to play with so he could get a shiny new offensive toy that does'nt come with the baggage of a bm.
he wants a clean slate.....a group of players that are "all in" with his plan.
and having 3 picks in the top 45 players is a pretty good place to start

[claymore]

the jets have a solid D,running game and probably are set at qb for a while.
they have 2 2nd round picks and shot their wad on sanchez last year( financially that is)the one major area of need they have is a playmaking reciever....enter brandon marshall.
i see no reason why they would not be willing to trade their #3 and a 2nd for marshall and our #11.
it makes sense for both clubs,as marshall would thrive in the "bright lights" of the big apple and would get all the attention he wants (not to mention a fat payday) and mcD would be able to address a needy d-line by drafting a stud at #3 and still have 2 2nd's and a third to play with so he could get a shiny new offensive toy that does'nt come with the baggage of a bm.
he wants a clean slate.....a group of players that are "all in" with his plan.
and having 3 picks in the top 45 players is a pretty good place to startIf McDaniels did that I hope Bowlen fired him on the spot. our #11 is worth a 3rd and 2nd alone.

[claymore]

the jets have a solid D,running game and probably are set at qb for a while.
they have 2 2nd round picks and shot their wad on sanchez last year( financially that is)the one major area of need they have is a playmaking reciever....enter brandon marshall.
i see no reason why they would not be willing to trade their #3 and a 2nd for marshall and our #11.
it makes sense for both clubs,as marshall would thrive in the "bright lights" of the big apple and would get all the attention he wants (not to mention a fat payday) and mcD would be able to address a needy d-line by drafting a stud at #3 and still have 2 2nd's and a third to play with so he could get a shiny new offensive toy that does'nt come with the baggage of a bm.
he wants a clean slate.....a group of players that are "all in" with his plan.
and having 3 picks in the top 45 players is a pretty good place to start


If McDaniels did that I hope Bowlen fired him on the spot. our #11 is worth a 3rd and 2nd alone.
I think you jumbled NY Jets and TB Bucs together??

[Elevation inc]

If McDaniels did that I hope Bowlen fired him on the spot. our #11 is worth a 3rd and 2nd alone.

actually clay lets say we value marshall at the seventh overall pick(pretty f'in high)....so essentially 2 first rd picks of 7, 11 is 2750 points

the 3rd overall pick alone is worth 2200 points add in their second rd pick worth 550 points......well i think you can see where im going with this.....;)

so the 3rd overall pick and there second rd pick for marshall is pretty damn even value by nfl trade standards.....

the second rd is so loaded with talent and there second rd picks is almost a first anyways.... i wouldnt be upset with a combo of say....N suh, Golden tate, JD walton for our first 3 picks....

thats a pretty good haul for brandon marshall and the 11th.....

[Lancane]

actually clay lets say we value marshall at the seventh overall pick(pretty f'in high)....so essentially 2 first rd picks of 7, 11 is 2750 points

the 3rd overall pick alone is worth 2200 points add in their second rd pick worth 550 points......well i think you can see where im going with this.....;)

so the 3rd overall pick and there second rd pick for marshall is pretty damn even value by nfl trade standards.....

And thus we see reasoning as to why the NFL wishes to elimate the current value ranking of the NFL Draft. :D

[claymore]

actually clay lets say we value marshall at the seventh overall pick(pretty f'in high)....so essentially 2 first rd picks of 7, 11 is 2750 points

the 3rd overall pick alone is worth 2200 points add in their second rd pick worth 550 points......well i think you can see where im going with this.....;)

so the 3rd overall pick and there second rd pick for marshall is pretty damn even value by nfl trade standards.....

He said the Jets though so I assumed he meant the 3rd rounder. The post is a mix of facts between 2 teams. I got confused until I sorted that out.

Tampa picks at #3.

NY has a solid line and Snachez...

[Elevation inc]

He said the Jets though so I assumed he meant the 3rd rounder. The post is a mix of facts between 2 teams. I got confused until I sorted that out.

Tampa picks at #3.

NY has a solid line and Snachez...

i did to:confused:............lets get him:tsk:

[claymore]

i did to:confused:............lets get him:tsk:

I thought I had a brain tumor for a minute. :nosebleed:

[underrated29]

i didnt read through all of this so i might be a repeat.


but if this trade goes through I will be very upset!



I would not mind doing #3, and both of their 2nds for marshall, #11 and a 3rd/4th....but that would be about it..

[Elevation inc]

i didnt read through all of this so i might be a repeat.


but if this trade goes through I will be very upset!



I would not mind doing #3, and both of their 2nds for marshall, #11 and a 3rd/4th....but that would be about it..



lets say we value marshall at the seventh overall pick(pretty f'in high)....so essentially 2 first rd picks of 7, 11 is 2750 points

the 3rd overall pick alone is worth 2200 points add in their second rd pick worth 550 points......well i think you can see where im going with this.....

so the 3rd overall pick and there second rd pick for marshall is pretty damn even value by nfl trade standards.....

the second rd is so loaded with talent and there second rd picks is almost a first anyways.... i wouldnt be upset with a combo of say....N suh, Golden tate, JD walton for our first 3 picks....

thats a pretty good haul for brandon marshall and the 11th.....

[underrated29]

lets say we value marshall at the seventh overall pick(pretty f'in high)....so essentially 2 first rd picks of 7, 11 is 2750 points

the 3rd overall pick alone is worth 2200 points add in their second rd pick worth 550 points......well i think you can see where im going with this.....

so the 3rd overall pick and there second rd pick for marshall is pretty damn even value by nfl trade standards.....

the second rd is so loaded with talent and there second rd picks is almost a first anyways.... i wouldnt be upset with a combo of say....N suh, Golden tate, JD walton for our first 3 picks....

thats a pretty good haul for brandon marshall and the 11th.....




right. And while i agree with you. We should not be accepting even trades or trades that are in our favor slightly to moderately. We do not have to let him go, and as we know he is a BEAST..Tampa would LOVE to have him there for freeman to throw to. So if they want him, they are going to have to cough it up big time to get him. Not just an even keel, IMO....But i also drive a hard bargain.

This draft is loaded which is why i also think this will Never happen. Tampa needs more work than we do, they need all those picks to add some top tier talent in this deep draft.

[Ravage!!!]

i didnt read through all of this so i might be a repeat.


but if this trade goes through I will be very upset!



I would not mind doing #3, and both of their 2nds for marshall, #11 and a 3rd/4th....but that would be about it..

If this is what you are looking for, you are going to be MAJORLY MAJORLY disappointed in the trade for Marshall. Just accept that now.

[hotcarl]

the jets have a solid D,running game and probably are set at qb for a while.
they have 2 2nd round picks and shot their wad on sanchez last year( financially that is)the one major area of need they have is a playmaking reciever....enter brandon marshall.
i see no reason why they would not be willing to trade their #3 and a 2nd for marshall and our #11.
it makes sense for both clubs,as marshall would thrive in the "bright lights" of the big apple and would get all the attention he wants (not to mention a fat payday) and mcD would be able to address a needy d-line by drafting a stud at #3 and still have 2 2nd's and a third to play with so he could get a shiny new offensive toy that does'nt come with the baggage of a bm.
he wants a clean slate.....a group of players that are "all in" with his plan.
and having 3 picks in the top 45 players is a pretty good place to start

WORST POST OF ALL TIME :salute: :grats:

[LRtagger]

OR we could take the #3 pick and their second rounder...trade that #3 away to someone looking to jump up to take one of the DTs or QBs, move back some in the first and pick up another second round pick. That would give us a mid to late first, an early second round pick, and two mid second round picks. That would be pretty nice.

And if we can't find any trade partners, we still can land an elite talent at #3.

I wouldnt mind the trade at all if it involved their second round pick also.

[underrated29]

If this is what you are looking for, you are going to be MAJORLY MAJORLY disappointed in the trade for Marshall. Just accept that now.



I shall accept nothing, because there will not be any trade for marshall....... atleast, not yet.


I still think we will see him moved on draft day when a team panics after their guy is gone. Hopefully that team is not us, so we end up on the better end of things. But this supposed deal- i got nothing for it.

[Ravage!!!]

I shall accept nothing, because there will not be any trade for marshall....... atleast, not yet.


I still think we will see him moved on draft day when a team panics after their guy is gone. Hopefully that team is not us, so we end up on the better end of things. But this supposed deal- i got nothing for it.

I agree, I see it happening after we pick at 11...

but as I said, I don't think we get more than a 2nd this year and maybe a 3or 4th next year.

Obviously thats a guess, but as much as Marshall is worth a first round pick, everyone knows that McD is going to get rid of him. Why give up a 1st when you can give up less?

[T.K.O.]

i did mix the teams up,i was thinking of the jets but what i meant was if we get THE 3rd pick and A 2nd for marshall and have to throw in our #11 it would be a reasonable deal.
and allow us to get one of the top d-line prospects and still have a pair of 2nd round picks to play with.....would be a pretty good way to help build a young team.
and carl....i doubt i have even approached worst post of all time.....yet:salute:
not to mention i did'nt use the term *farts*

[JONtheBRONCO]

We'd have a chance to unload a Marshall, and be in a position to grab either Berry - who is supposed to be the next Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu or Ndamukong Suh who evaluators say is the best DT they have seen in 15 years, I'd be down.

How is that any riskier than keeping Marshall and taking the chance of another arrest or even holdout. I think a lot of people are forgetting how big of a diva Marshall has been, and that another arrest could result in a lengthy suspension. Let's let some other team deal with him. He wants out of Denver, we all know that, regardless of what he says. If we have a chance to get a guy like Berry, or Suh, who can change or take over a game on defense, then lets do it.

The trade would have to look something like this:
Marshall, #11 for #3, (3rd round pick) - I would like to think a second would be added, but I doubt the Bucs would do that. They are stacked with picks this year though. Heres a vote for the trade!

[JONtheBRONCO]

The thing is, this is great value for Marshall, even if we are letting lose at #11. We could go numerous directions from #3. If we hold on to Marshall because of greed (I know he is a top WR, with game changing abilities, so I understand his value SHOULD be high) we might end up kicking ourselves in the ass if he becomes a cancer in the locker room or ends up getting arrested again lie I posted earlier. Suh or Berry would instantly upgrade our defense. I will say there would have to be another pick involved along with #3, because we do have needs at the OL, DL.

[Nickademus]

I am convinced that if there is a deal with the bucs its dependant on our guy being there @ #3. however It wouldnt suprise me at all to see seatle send 14 and a second our way before the draft. Ny is the wild card in this deal. They kept edwards and see marshall as the perfect fit at the no.1 spot next to him while they need help @ safety and depth on their dl the No.1 wr is their biggest need.

[Traveler]

All said, my hunch is that this draft won't be anything close to what we all think. Lots of unexpected selections.

[OldschoolFreak]

Why do people even want the #3 pick if it means giving up our #11? Sure, I'll take another first rounder but I'm not in all that big of a hurry to trade up and spend more money on an unproven player.In a lot of ways, #11 provides better value to the Broncos since there's no obvious selection at #3 that justifies the trade (I think we all agree we won't be chasing Clausen at this point).

Yeah, McCoy would be nice. But is he really enough of a surefire prospect over say a Dan Williams that it's worth giving up Marshall to essentially upgrade from a blue chip prospect to a blue chip plus prospect at the same position? I don't think so. McCoy could very well end up like Glen Dorsey and frankly, despite the higher upside, I don't think there's any less chance he'll bust than Williams will.

[OldschoolFreak]

It wouldnt suprise me at all to see seatle send 14 and a second our way before the draft.

I would totally jump on that.

But it's not going to happen.

If it did, that's better value for an organization in rebuilding mode like the Broncos than a #6 overall would be.

[weazel]

If this goes down, they should start sizing McD up for a straight jacket.

[Ravage!!!]

I am convinced that if there is a deal with the bucs its dependant on our guy being there @ #3. however It wouldnt suprise me at all to see seatle send 14 and a second our way before the draft. Ny is the wild card in this deal. They kept edwards and see marshall as the perfect fit at the no.1 spot next to him while they need help @ safety and depth on their dl the No.1 wr is their biggest need.

So you feel, that despite there only being a 1st round tender on Marshall, that they will trade for a 1st AND a 2nd..thus giving MORE than the tender asks?

Thats interesting.

[CoachChaz]

So you feel, that despite there only being a 1st round tender on Marshall, that they will trade for a 1st AND a 2nd..thus giving MORE than the tender asks?

Thats interesting.

It's possible. Sepends on what they sign him to. If it's something Denver can easily match, then there can be discussions involving additional compensation. but if a team offers him 7 mil a year and refuses to give up more than what we ask...we just match and get his talent at a very nice price.

[Nickademus]

So you feel, that despite there only being a 1st round tender on Marshall, that they will trade for a 1st AND a 2nd..thus giving MORE than the tender asks?

Thats interesting.

well if we traded him yes. if they sign him then it would be the #6 pick and not the # 14 and since alot of us feel that marshall is worth a top ten pick it will take more than a pick in the teens to get him. I dont believe that because he was tendered with just the first round tender and not the first and third that denver would take any first for him. if its a really low first my guess is we would probably match.

[Ziggy]

There will be no draft day trades with Marshall. He would have to sign his tender early, which he won't. Denver can't trade him unless he does. If another team wants to sign him to an offer sheet, it has to be approved by the league. That's not going to happen in the minutes between draft picks.

Hopefully the overall lack of interest in Marshall by 30 teams thus far shows him and his agent that he's not getting the megastar contract. He'll have to sign for a fair salary, and hope that Denver doesn't match it. Only 1 team has even brought him in for a visit, and they aren't stupid enough to give up the 6th pick in the draft for him. That was never going to happen. I doubt they even offer up the 14th. In the end, the Broncos will be lucky to get any 1st rounder for him. If the Bucs offered 2 2nds, the Broncos should be jumping all over it, but remember folks, the source of all of this is some blog. I can create a blog and say that Marshall is going to the Ravens for Flacco. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.

[Traveler]

There will be no draft day trades with Marshall. He would have to sign his tender early, which he won't. Denver can't trade him unless he does. If another team wants to sign him to an offer sheet, it has to be approved by the league. That's not going to happen in the minutes between draft picks.

Hopefully the overall lack of interest in Marshall by 30 teams thus far shows him and his agent that he's not getting the megastar contract. He'll have to sign for a fair salary, and hope that Denver doesn't match it. Only 1 team has even brought him in for a visit, and they aren't stupid enough to give up the 6th pick in the draft for him. That was never going to happen. I doubt they even offer up the 14th. In the end, the Broncos will be lucky to get any 1st rounder for him. If the Bucs offered 2 2nds, the Broncos should be jumping all over it, but remember folks, the source of all of this is some blog. I can create a blog and say that Marshall is going to the Ravens for Flacco. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.


Another voice of reason. BRAVO!

[Traveler]

With Denver upgrading so many positions, the new draft strategy almost has to be BPA, especially in round one.

DE & C at #11 is too high for the players available at that spot.

[Ravage!!!]

well if we traded him yes. if they sign him then it would be the #6 pick and not the # 14 and since alot of us feel that marshall is worth a top ten pick it will take more than a pick in the teens to get him. I dont believe that because he was tendered with just the first round tender and not the first and third that denver would take any first for him. if its a really low first my guess is we would probably match.

We'll just have to disagree. Just because WE believe he's worth a top 10 pick, don't believe for a MOMENT that the coaching staff is going to hold out for that.

The difference is, people here are looking at it as a player you want to keep, thus not taking anything less than a TON for him. I don't think the coaching staff sees it in the same light. They want to get rid of him. They will take the most they can get, but WILL trade him off. So its not going to be a matter of us matching, unless they are very confident they can trade him later.

I'm very confident tht Marshall will not be on this team this season, and we won't purely match and keep him. I understand the rules about matching and trading and getting the 6th or then trading for others....we will NOT get the 6th pick, period. We won't get the 3rd pick, period.

Some here are viewing Marshall's value as though the coaching staff would rather keep him unless a GREAT deal is brought forth. I don't think so. I think its going to come down to getting the best value we can, but he will be gone. I also believe the other GMs know this, and aren't going to simply buck up top round picks for a guy they can get for less.

[Ziggy]

Very few if any GM's are going to have owners talking them into getting Marshall. It's going to have to be the other way around. No owner wants to give millions guaranteed to a player that is one strike away from a huge suspension. Winning teams also don't go out and bring in players that are locker room cancers, disrupting practice before the season even starts. That event in itself may have cost Brandon a chance with half the teams in the NFL.

[rationalfan]

don't have time to read through all the posts. has any other media source confirmed these talks?

[claymore]

don't have time to read through all the posts. has any other media source confirmed these talks?

FaninAZ did some prelimenary investigation that turned up a link to the draft website. But thats aboot it.

[Timmy!]

:horseshit:

[Nickademus]

We'll just have to disagree. Just because WE believe he's worth a top 10 pick, don't believe for a MOMENT that the coaching staff is going to hold out for that.

The difference is, people here are looking at it as a player you want to keep, thus not taking anything less than a TON for him. I don't think the coaching staff sees it in the same light. They want to get rid of him. They will take the most they can get, but WILL trade him off. So its not going to be a matter of us matching, unless they are very confident they can trade him later.

I'm very confident tht Marshall will not be on this team this season, and we won't purely match and keep him. I understand the rules about matching and trading and getting the 6th or then trading for others....we will NOT get the 6th pick, period. We won't get the 3rd pick, period.

Some here are viewing Marshall's value as though the coaching staff would rather keep him unless a GREAT deal is brought forth. I don't think so. I think its going to come down to getting the best value we can, but he will be gone. I also believe the other GMs know this, and aren't going to simply buck up top round picks for a guy they can get for less.

I actually tend to agree that we over value marshall as fans. but reguardless of where we value marshall and where the FO values him the tender was used as a tool to gauge the value he might have on the market. The point I was making is that the First round tender doesnt set marshalls value at only a first rounder sure if its high enough.

[Midnight Blue]

Moving up from 11 to 3 is the same value as the 14th pick according to this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

So it's really more like trading Marshall to Seattle to get back our natural 14 pick and then using that pick and our 11 from Chicago to move up to 3 :listen:

That would tick me off even more.... because then essentially, we would have traded Brandon Marshall (a starter and playmaker) straight across for Alfonso Smith (a situational role player).

[claymore]

That would tick me off even more.... because then essentially, we would have traded Brandon Marshall (a starter and playmaker) straight across for Alfonso Smith (a situational role player).

Dont say that.....!!! Lots of folks get mad when you say that!

[Lancane]

If this is going to happen, I see it involving much more then what we have heard. Something to the effect of Brandon Marshall, Chris Kuper and the 11th overall pick to Tampa Bay for say the 3rd and 45th overall picks.

[silkamilkamonico]

If this is going to happen, I see it involving much more then what we have heard. Something to the effect of Brandon Marshall, Chris Kuper and the 11th overall pick to Tampa Bay for say the 3rd and 45th overall picks.

Why would they want Kuper, they have arguably the best young up and coming Guard combo in the NFL with Joseph and Zuttah..

[Lancane]

Why would they want Kuper, they have arguably the best young up and coming Guard combo in the NFL with Joseph and Zuttah..

It was just a scenario, not based of what would be likely to happen. I am just saying that I feel it will likely involve more then what we have been told.

[Midnight Blue]

If this is going to happen, I see it involving much more then what we have heard. Something to the effect of Brandon Marshall, Chris Kuper and the 11th overall pick to Tampa Bay for say the 3rd and 45th overall picks.

So we'd be trading a starting WR, a starting O-lineman, and #11 overall for #3 and #45? How about "not just "no"; "hell no!"....

[EMB6903]

All said, my hunch is that this draft won't be anything close to what we all think. Lots of unexpected selections.

Every draft is like that though.

[hotcarl]

close thread :salute:

[ursamajor]

http://www.draftheadquarters.com/dhqblogs/?p=677

I’m reporting that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Denver Broncos are in discussions that would send star wide receiver Brandon Marshall to Tampa Bay and would involve the 3rd and 11th picks in the 2010 NFL Draft.

Tampa Bay has been looking to upgrade their receiving core, and adding a player like Marshall would help propel their offense into the future. With the third pick in the draft, it is believed that the Broncos would likely be looking at Tennessee safety Eric Berry.

From what I’ve been told, the teams would swap first round picks with additional picks potentially being involved in the deal.

Continue to stay tuned at Draft Headquarters for the best coverage of the 2010 NFL Draft.

with the fact that Marshall is

a) young
b) All-Pro

This would be a horrible trade for the Broncos. Marshall for the pick-yes. Marshall and the 11th for the pic-nope

[Lancane]

So we'd be trading a starting WR, a starting O-lineman, and #11 overall for #3 and #45? How about "not just "no"; "hell no!"....

As Rav stated before, it's not about what value we the fans see, but what the organization does. Kuper was used in the scenario, it does not make it factual, just an example.

[Midnight Blue]

As Rav stated before, it's not about what value we the fans see, but what the organization does. Kuper was used in the scenario, it does not make it factual, just an example.

Marshall alone is worth the #3... and Kuper's worth more than the #45. Even without tossing in the #11..

[Midnight Blue]

As Rav stated before, it's not about what value we the fans see, but what the organization does. Kuper was used in the scenario, it does not make it factual, just an example.

Again, the point is that the players have real, proven value... they are known to not be busts. Draft picks have potential value; hence are riskier than going with the known quantity in a proven starter.

[LRtagger]

Marshall alone is worth the #3...

According to who?

If he were, teams would be tripping over themselves to sign him to an offer sheet if it would cost them anything less than the 3rd pick. The fact that Seattle is the only team to even bring him in (and I dout they would have even done that had Carroll not brought Bates with him) and they are reluctant to give up the #6 for him completely disproves that statement.

Other NFL teams determine Marshall's value, not the Broncos or their fans.

[Midnight Blue]

According to who?

If he were, teams would be tripping over themselves to sign him to an offer sheet if it would cost them anything less than the 3rd pick. The fact that Seattle is the only team to even bring him in (and I dout they would have even done that had Carroll not brought Bates with him) and they are reluctant to give up the #6 for him completely disproves that statement.

Other NFL teams determine Marshall's value, not the Broncos or their fans.

Um...no. Other teams want Marshall; they'd just like to get a bargain price on him. The Broncos can easily... and should... just keep him (they're under no compulsion to trade him) if their pricetag isn't met. The Broncos have the leverage here... in the ability to just say "no deal" if other teams make a lowball offer.

[getlynched47]

Hell no!

With the ridiculous salary that rookies get paid, I want nothing to do with the #3 overall pick.

Knowshon was drafted #12 last year by us, and he's the second highest paid player on our roster right behind Champ with $8 million this season.

No way. They can grab that 3rd overall pick and shove it up their nose.

Now if a rookie pay scale was already in place, then that's a completely different story.

Sure we will get a top talent in the draft at #3, but our problem is on the offensive line now. We haven't done anything to fix that. Who the hell is so important that he wants to target at #3? Suh to play DE in the 3-4? McCoy?

And if both of them are gone, Clausen? Even after we got Quinn? Bryant at #3 overall? I don't see how the negatives outweigh the positives with this scenario.

If I were McDaniels, I'd say pass.

[LRtagger]

Um...no. Other teams want Marshall; they'd just like to get a bargain price on him.

What? So where do you get that he is worth a #3 pick? He is worth what we could get for him. Period.

There's no discount shopping in the NFL. Obviously teams want to pay the least that they can, but if he was worth a #3 pick, then according to you there are 29 other teams in the NFL that would be getting a bargain by giving up their first round pick for him.

If Seattle is desperate for a WR, but they arent willing to give up their #6 pick for him, then from that how do you deduce that he's a #3 pick? He's worth what any of the other 31 NFL teams would give up for him.


The Broncos can easily... and should... just keep him (they're under no compulsion to trade him) if their pricetag isn't met. The Broncos have the leverage here... in the ability to just say "no deal" if other teams make a lowball offer.

I agree that they should keep him if they don't get the value they think they should...but I doubt they are going to be waiting around for Det, Stl, or TB to sign him to an offer sheet. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how you pulled a top 3 pick out of nowhere as his worth.

[LRtagger]

Hell no!

With the ridiculous salary that rookies get paid, I want nothing to do with the #3 overall pick.

Knowshon was drafted #12 last year by us, and he's the second highest paid player on our roster right behind Champ with $8 million this season.

No way. They can grab that 3rd overall pick and shove it up their nose.

Now if a rookie pay scale was already in place, then that's a completely different story.

Sure we will get a top talent in the draft at #3, but our problem is on the offensive line now. We haven't done anything to fix that. Who the hell is so important that he wants to target at #3? Suh to play DE in the 3-4? McCoy?

And if both of them are gone, Clausen? Even after we got Quinn? Bryant at #3 overall? I don't see how the negatives outweigh the positives with this scenario.

If I were McDaniels, I'd say pass.

The only benefit I can see at the #3 pick is that Washington has the #4 pick and is very highly likely going to pick a QB. There would be a good chance that we could find someone who would want to jump past washington to pick one of them up. We could wind up with a mid 1st and an additional 2nd or 3rd. It's a risk, though.

[WARHORSE]

There will be no draft day trades with Marshall. He would have to sign his tender early, which he won't. Denver can't trade him unless he does. If another team wants to sign him to an offer sheet, it has to be approved by the league. That's not going to happen in the minutes between draft picks.

Hopefully the overall lack of interest in Marshall by 30 teams thus far shows him and his agent that he's not getting the megastar contract. He'll have to sign for a fair salary, and hope that Denver doesn't match it. Only 1 team has even brought him in for a visit, and they aren't stupid enough to give up the 6th pick in the draft for him. That was never going to happen. I doubt they even offer up the 14th. In the end, the Broncos will be lucky to get any 1st rounder for him. If the Bucs offered 2 2nds, the Broncos should be jumping all over it, but remember folks, the source of all of this is some blog. I can create a blog and say that Marshall is going to the Ravens for Flacco. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.



Daryll Tapp.

Of course Brandon will sign the tender should a team trade him on draft day. Its as simple as putting his Hancock on a piece of paper.

This precludes a draft day trade rather than signing him to an offer sheet.


Brandon will sign so that we can trade him, and the parameters of Marshalls demands will have already been made clear by his agent.

[Midnight Blue]

What? So where do you get that he is worth a #3 pick? He is worth what we could get for him. Period.

There's no discount shopping in the NFL. Obviously teams want to pay the least that they can, but if he was worth a #3 pick, then according to you there are 29 other teams in the NFL that would be getting a bargain by giving up their first round pick for him.

If Seattle is desperate for a WR, but they arent willing to give up their #6 pick for him, then from that how do you deduce that he's a #3 pick? He's worth what any of the other 31 NFL teams would give up for him.



I agree that they should keep him if they don't get the value they think they should...but I doubt they are going to be waiting around for Det, Stl, or TB to sign him to an offer sheet. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how you pulled a top 3 pick out of nowhere as his worth.

The mention of a #3 actually isn't mine... this whole thread is about speculation that TB's #3 might be on the bargaining table. And that's all it is for anyone... pure speculation. It's my opinion that Marshall should be worth "a" first round draft pick. And that does not mean throwing in our own first rounder from the Bears to "sweeten the pot"... to add our own first round pick (plus Marshall) would (IMHO) mean the Broncos got shafted. And the notion of tossing in Kuper on top of that for the #45 is just plain ridiculous. You can't seriously think giving up two starters and a first round draft pick in exchange for a (lower but way more expensive to sign) first and a second is a good deal for the Broncos...

[CrazyHorse]

Could we get the rights to Plummer back?

[Ravage!!!]

NOT ONE UFA that has a 1st round tender on them has signed. NOT ONE, at any position, in the entire NFL. Don't think for a moment, that simply because Marshall hasn't been given an offer means that teams wouldn't LOVE to have them on their team. You guys get WAyyyyyy too caught up in the off-field drama. WAYYYY too much. Teams gave Pac-man jones another contract. They gave Chris Henry (rip) another contract, and they gave Mike Vick, another contract. ALL these players were worth risks, and the only one that had MORE worth before they were suspended, was Vick.. and his value was plummeting due to his play. Then he missed more than one season, and STILL got contracts.

Marshall is just hitting his Prime, is an elite in the NFL, and teams ABSOLUTELY would lvoe to have him. They would love to give him a chance. Some of you put WAYYY too much stock in the off-field drama, and haven't been looking around the NFL. Teams draft players that missed their entire senior years due to suspensions. They take players that ahve been suspended for 16 games.

You are foolish to think that Marshall isn't a top prospect. But every team is going to get best value, and thats why you are seeing teams wait for the UFA's to sign first. EVERY 1st round UFA in the entire NFL, hasn't signed. That says a lot, and its not pointing fingers at Marshall.

[Ravage!!!]

Could we get the rights to Plummer back?

We tried, but they didn't accept the vinyle 45 of Cat-man-doo and a can of raquet balls.

[LRtagger]

The mention of a #3 actually isn't mine... this whole thread is about speculation that TB's #3 might be on the bargaining table. And that's all it is for anyone... pure speculation. It's my opinion that Marshall should be worth "a" first round draft pick. And that does not mean throwing in our own first rounder from the Bears to "sweeten the pot"... to add our own first round pick (plus Marshall) would (IMHO) mean the Broncos got shafted. And the notion of tossing in Kuper on top of that for the #45 is just plain ridiculous. You can't seriously think giving up two starters and a first round draft pick in exchange for a (lower but way more expensive to sign) first and a second is a good deal for the Broncos...

I know the thread is about Marshall signing an offer sheet with TB and we get the third, but people started speculating because most feel TB would be nuts to give up their #3 pick for Marshall straight up. In that scenario, there would probably have to be a package put together between the two teams to come up with equal compensation.

No, I don't think we would give up Kuper, but I think Marshall plus our first round pick in exchange for their first and second round picks would be pretty even. I think they may have to throw in maybe a late round pick or something.

But I was just commenting on the fact that you said Brandon was worth the #3 alone which I think anyone will tell you is completely false.

[Traveler]

NOT ONE UFA that has a 1st round tender on them has signed. NOT ONE, at any position, in the entire NFL. Don't think for a moment, that simply because Marshall hasn't been given an offer means that teams wouldn't LOVE to have them on their team. You guys get WAyyyyyy too caught up in the off-field drama. WAYYYY too much. Teams gave Pac-man jones another contract. They gave Chris Henry (rip) another contract, and they gave Mike Vick, another contract. ALL these players were worth risks, and the only one that had MORE worth before they were suspended, was Vick.. and his value was plummeting due to his play. Then he missed more than one season, and STILL got contracts.

Marshall is just hitting his Prime, is an elite in the NFL, and teams ABSOLUTELY would lvoe to have him. They would love to give him a chance. Some of you put WAYYY too much stock in the off-field drama, and haven't been looking around the NFL. Teams draft players that missed their entire senior years due to suspensions. They take players that ahve been suspended for 16 games.

You are foolish to think that Marshall isn't a top prospect. But every team is going to get best value, and thats why you are seeing teams wait for the UFA's to sign first. EVERY 1st round UFA in the entire NFL, hasn't signed. That says a lot, and its not pointing fingers at Marshall.

Collusion!

[Ravage!!!]

But I was just commenting on the fact that you said Brandon was worth the #3 alone which I think anyone will tell you is completely false.

False to whom? You?

Midnight is making the point that a proved elite NFL WR is worth taking a chance in the Draft.. and she's 100% CORRECT in that! Absolutely she is. You wo uld be foolish to think that an elite WR, in his prime, PROVEN to be one of the very TOP WRs in the NFL is not worth the#3 pick over some "hope" in the draft.

So you think that because teams are leaping out of their seats, that this proves this false, and THAT alone is FALSE. You are making assumptions based on the lack of all information from anyone. You are making facts from the LACK of information based on your PURE speculations.

From Midnight's perspective, taking a chance on a #3 pick in the draft is much more risky than having the proven quantity in your hand.... and I absolutely.100% agree. A bird in the hand truly is worth more than 2 in the bush.

If you don't think so.. great. So you to you its not worth it. To you, because you don't see teams clamoriing for every 1st round tender in the NFL, proves that they aren't worth the 1st round pick. Thats great. Thats your opinion. But don't try to make it out to be that your opinion is indeed FACT, when it clearly is NOT.

[LRtagger]

False to whom? You?

Midnight is making the point that a proved elite NFL WR is worth taking a chance in the Draft.. and she's 100% CORRECT in that! Absolutely she is. You wo uld be foolish to think that an elite WR, in his prime, PROVEN to be one of the very TOP WRs in the NFL is not worth the#3 pick over some "hope" in the draft.

So you think that because teams are leaping out of their seats, that this proves this false, and THAT alone is FALSE. You are making assumptions based on the lack of all information from anyone. You are making facts from the LACK of information based on your PURE speculations.

From Midnight's perspective, taking a chance on a #3 pick in the draft is much more risky than having the proven quantity in your hand.... and I absolutely.100% agree. A bird in the hand truly is worth more than 2 in the bush.

If you don't think so.. great. So you to you its not worth it. To you, because you don't see teams clamoriing for every 1st round tender in the NFL, proves that they aren't worth the 1st round pick. Thats great. Thats your opinion. But don't try to make it out to be that your opinion is indeed FACT, when it clearly is NOT.

The FACT is Marshall is worth what a team will give up for him. PERIOD.

Just as your house or car is worth what someone will pay for it. That is what worth means. Until a team says they will give up the #3 pick for him going into this year's draft, then he is not worth the #3 pick.

The fact that Seattle brought him in and would have to give up the #6 pick, but didn't sign him tells me he is not worth the #6 pick to another NFL team. How does that make him worth the #3 pick to a random fan?

That is the point of the RFA system. The player gets tendered to a pick and the FO allows said player to test the market to discover what they may be worth. If no one signs him to an offer sheet, then that means there are no teams in the NFL in 2010 that value Marshall as a first round pick. If they did, they would sign him and gladly give up their first round pick. If not for off-field drama, what other reason would any other NFL team have to not happily give up their first round pick for a proven elite WR instead of paying out to an unproven rookie?

What do you think AZ fans though Boldin's value was? I bet not many thought it was a 3rd and 4th round pick.

I'm not hating on Marshall. I think he's a great player and well worth a first. But my opinion doesnt matter. Marshall (on and off the field) is worth what another NFL team would give up for him. Thats all.

[Ravage!!!]

The FACT is Marshall is worth what a team will give up for him. PERIOD.

Just as your house or car is worth what someone will pay for it. That is what worth means. Until a team says they will give up the #3 pick for him going into this year's draft, then he is not worth the #3 pick.

The fact that Seattle brought him in and would have to give up the #6 pick, but didn't sign him tells me he is not worth the #6 pick to another NFL team. How does that make him worth the #3 pick to a random fan?

That is the point of the RFA system. The player gets tendered to a pick and the FO allows said player to test the market to discover what they may be worth. If no one signs him to an offer sheet, then that means there are no teams in the NFL in 2010 that value Marshall as a first round pick. If they did, they would sign him and gladly give up their first round pick. If not for off-field drama, what other reason would any other NFL team have to not happily give up their first round pick for a proven elite WR instead of paying out to an unproven rookie?

What do you think AZ fans though Boldin's value was? I bet not many thought it was a 3rd and 4th round pick.

I'm not hating on Marshall. I think he's a great player and well worth a first. But my opinion doesnt matter. Marshall (on and off the field) is worth what another NFL team would give up for him. Thats all.

Yes Lt... you aren't reinventing the wheel by explaining that if people only by coke at 50 cents, and not at 55, the market value is 50 cents. We get that. Its not over our head.

Midnight feels that Marshall is worth the #3 pick. That is a fact. Thats how she views the situation, thats how she views the value of Marshall. You can't tell her thats false. You can't say she is wrong. That would make YOU wrong (and extremely arrogant for telling her she is).

She is saying that she would NOT spend the 3rd pick in the draft over a proven elite WR in the NFL. How can you say that she's wrong on that? You can't. Her reasoning is sound. It makes sense. We all know her opinion doesn't make the decisions in the NFL. Nor does anyone else's here. That doesn't mean her placed value is wrong. You are simply talking basic guns-n-butter.

There are other things that go into trades in the NFL...especially for draft picks. Money. Season ticket holders. Jersey sales. The draft is absolutely HUGE. Its so big, it gets bigger ratings than the MLB and NBA, playoffs, and last year got bigger ratings that NBA finals. This goes into the reasoning behind keeping top draft choices.

But there is obviously more to the situation, here. NOT a single 1st round RFA has been signed. Not one, at ANY position, in the entire league. Are they all bad-eggs? Is every team worried about every 1st round RFA's off-field troubles? Are you telling me, that every team in the NFL feels that its "smarter" to take a chance on some unknown commodity than to spend the first round pick on a proven player? Really? ... Really? That doesn't make much sense. So I think there is much more at play here.

Teams know that they can get players at a much lowered price, if they just wait. The value is lowered, and yes.. the lowered value is still the "value" because that is what a team paid (we got it)...but that doesn't mean that the value given is a true indicator of the value of product.

I think Marshall is ABSOLUTELY worth the #3 pick in the draft. I think he's worth the #6 pick in the draft (although some would argue that a stud DT is worth more than a WR. Hard to argue that point, OTHER than the true fact that not every top DT drafted ever turns out to be worth the draft pick money. Marshall has proved he's an elite at THIS level, where as the DTs/LTs/QBs haven't).



That being said, I don't think we get a 1st round pick for Marshall at all. I think we get a 2nd round pick (and probably another 3rd or so next year). Does that mean I think is value is only a 2nd round pick, or does that mean I know the MARKET places him at a 2nd round pick? Why would I spend more, when I can get Marshall AND keep my first? Teams can't even play the games of trying to get another team to commit to Marshall, without signing him to an offer sheet. Why would they rush on this? Why be in that game now, when you don't need to be.

The Market and value aren't always the same. You can argue that the market determines the value...but sometimes market value is at rock bottom for many different reasons. If a team is able to get Marshall with a 2nd round pick, did they get 'good value'... or did they just purely get 'value?'

[Midnight Blue]

I know the thread is about Marshall signing an offer sheet with TB and we get the third, but people started speculating because most feel TB would be nuts to give up their #3 pick for Marshall straight up. In that scenario, there would probably have to be a package put together between the two teams to come up with equal compensation.

No, I don't think we would give up Kuper, but I think Marshall plus our first round pick in exchange for their first and second round picks would be pretty even. I think they may have to throw in maybe a late round pick or something.

But I was just commenting on the fact that you said Brandon was worth the #3 alone which I think anyone will tell you is completely false.

Actually, I think our own team lowballed Marshall by giving him only a first-round tender. My own opinion is that he should have had a first and a third. The Broncos hold all the cards where Marshall's concerned; they can opt to tell everyone "no, he's not available" if they so choose. And that #3 overall draft pick could very well turn out to be a total bust (and cost more than Marshall, too). Everyone knows Marshall can start and play at the pro level; it's a gamble that any rookie can (some can; some can't).

And Kuper is one of our best O-linemen... sure the O-line struggled a bit last season with the change from the ZBS, especially after Harris was injured. I'd be ticked off if they let Kuper go. Good O-linemen (emphasis on "good") are not a dime-a-dozen; every team wants quality players in the trenches. He would be difficult to replace and if he were traded for a draft pick... well, linemen typically do take a season or two to develop into a starting role, so we'd most likely be depending on backups in the upcoming season.

[Lancane]

Actually, I think our own team lowballed Marshall by giving him only a first-round tender. My own opinion is that he should have had a first and a third. The Broncos hold all the cards where Marshall's concerned; they can opt to tell everyone "no, he's not available" if they so choose. And that #3 overall draft pick could very well turn out to be a total bust (and cost more than Marshall, too). Everyone knows Marshall can start and play at the pro level; it's a gamble that any rookie can (some can; some can't).

And Kuper is one of our best O-linemen... sure the O-line struggled a bit last season with the change from the ZBS, especially after Harris was injured. I'd be ticked off if they let Kuper go. Good O-linemen (emphasis on "good") are not a dime-a-dozen; every team wants quality players in the trenches. He would be difficult to replace and if he were traded for a draft pick... well, linemen typically do take a season or two to develop into a starting role, so we'd most likely be depending on backups in the upcoming season.

I agree completely with you Midnight, at least on Marshall. Problem is that coaches even when they are not suppose to have the reigns of a franchise, still have too much say sometimes, and sometimes the General Managers act more like CEOs' of a major industrial company instead of GMs', they are suppose to have control of the personnel. Remember that McDaniels himself said that the final decisions remain with Xanders when he first got here. I believe as you that they should have given Marshall the highest tenure or at least made a valiant effort to sign him to a long-term deal already.

As for Kuper, I have to disagree...I believe he and Ryan Harris are both expendable with the new blocking scheme that Denver is changing to. Both are better fits for the zone blocking scheme, just my opinion though, and both will likely be replaced soon or after this season.

[Midnight Blue]

I agree completely with you Midnight, at least on Marshall. Problem is that coaches even when they are not suppose to have the reigns of a franchise, still have too much say sometimes, and sometimes the General Managers act more like CEOs' of a major industrial company instead of GMs', they are suppose to have control of the personnel. Remember that McDaniels himself said that the final decisions remain with Xanders when he first got here. I believe as you that they should have given Marshall the highest tenure or at least made a valiant effort to sign him to a long-term deal already.

As for Kuper, I have to disagree...I believe he and Ryan Harris are both expendable with the new blocking scheme that Denver is changing to. Both are better fits for the zone blocking scheme, just my opinion though, and both will likely be replaced soon or after this season.

Maybe... or possibly they'll learn the new scheme and excel at that too. :) As the O-line goes, though... so goes the offense in general. Whenever an O-line is struggling, that means more pressure on the QB and on the running game as well (especially if an opposing defense can make the offense one-dimensional). So the O-line needs attention and the sooner the better.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Actually, I think our own team lowballed Marshall by giving him only a first-round tender. My own opinion is that he should have had a first and a third. The Broncos hold all the cards where Marshall's concerned; they can opt to tell everyone "no, he's not available" if they so choose. And that #3 overall draft pick could very well turn out to be a total bust (and cost more than Marshall, too). Everyone knows Marshall can start and play at the pro level; it's a gamble that any rookie can (some can; some can't).




But Marshall wouldn't ever have been lowballed if he acted in a mature fashion and not get in all the drama that he has. The vblame lays on his shoulders alone.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I mentioned this before, but I'd gladly take TBs 2 second round picks for BM. There is plenty of talent/depth in this draft and the second round could improve us more than 1 early pick who could bust and be overpaid.

[Lancane]

Maybe... or possibly they'll learn the new scheme and excel at that too. :) As the O-line goes, though... so goes the offense in general. Whenever an O-line is struggling, that means more pressure on the QB and on the running game as well (especially if an opposing defense can make the offense one-dimensional). So the O-line needs attention and the sooner the better.

Well on my mock draft I have Denver drafting three in the first four rounds. And with what we are hearing about the Bronco Coaches and Scouts visiting certain athletes before the draft, it is important to them too by the amount of lineman they have been looking at.

[Kaylore]

This is about as "real" as monday morning cartoons. I love how he said receiving "core" too. That's when you know he's really an insider.:rolleyes:

[Midnight Blue]

But Marshall wouldn't ever have been lowballed if he acted in a mature fashion and not get in all the drama that he has. The vblame lays on his shoulders alone.

His performance on the field justifies paying the man.


I mentioned this before, but I'd gladly take TBs 2 second round picks for BM. There is plenty of talent/depth in this draft and the second round could improve us more than 1 early pick who could bust and be overpaid.

Second round draft picks can be busts too.


Well on my mock draft I have Denver drafting three in the first four rounds. And with what we are hearing about the Bronco Coaches and Scouts visiting certain athletes before the draft, it is important to them too by the amount of lineman they have been looking at.

Guess we'll see in late April....

[EMB6903]

I mentioned this before, but I'd gladly take TBs 2 second round picks for BM. There is plenty of talent/depth in this draft and the second round could improve us more than 1 early pick who could bust and be overpaid.

2 2nd rounders for Brandon Marshall? man that would be disapointing..

I'd rather have him for another year then dump him for 2 2nd rounders...

who'd we draft in the 2nd last year?

Oh thats right. Richard Quinn and Alphonso Smith.

Yes I know there have been plenty of 2nd rounders who have had success in this league but its just way too risky to give up an ELITE talent for... If we make a play for that 3rd overall pick to get Suh, Bradford or Berry... Im all for it.

But 2 2nd rounders? Ill pass

[silkamilkamonico]

2 2nd rounders for Brandon Marshall? man that would be disapointing..

I'd rather have him for another year then dump him for 2 2nd rounders...

who'd we draft in the 2nd last year?

Oh thats right. Richard Quinn and Alphonso Smith.

Yes I know there have been plenty of 2nd rounders who have had success in this league but its just way too risky to give up an ELITE talent for... If we make a play for that 3rd overall pick to get Suh, Bradford or Berry... Im all for it.

But 2 2nd rounders? Ill pass

Agreed. I know the coaching staff has admitted to rushed decisions in the draft last year, but I'm going to need to see a draft class actually pan out on the field before I'm going to have faith in their drafting.

[LRtagger]

Yes Lt... you aren't reinventing the wheel by explaining that if people only by coke at 50 cents, and not at 55, the market value is 50 cents. We get that. Its not over our head.

Midnight feels that Marshall is worth the #3 pick. That is a fact. Thats how she views the situation, thats how she views the value of Marshall. You can't tell her thats false. You can't say she is wrong. That would make YOU wrong (and extremely arrogant for telling her she is).

She is saying that she would NOT spend the 3rd pick in the draft over a proven elite WR in the NFL. How can you say that she's wrong on that? You can't. Her reasoning is sound. It makes sense. We all know her opinion doesn't make the decisions in the NFL. Nor does anyone else's here. That doesn't mean her placed value is wrong. You are simply talking basic guns-n-butter.

There are other things that go into trades in the NFL...especially for draft picks. Money. Season ticket holders. Jersey sales. The draft is absolutely HUGE. Its so big, it gets bigger ratings than the MLB and NBA, playoffs, and last year got bigger ratings that NBA finals. This goes into the reasoning behind keeping top draft choices.

But there is obviously more to the situation, here. NOT a single 1st round RFA has been signed. Not one, at ANY position, in the entire league. Are they all bad-eggs? Is every team worried about every 1st round RFA's off-field troubles? Are you telling me, that every team in the NFL feels that its "smarter" to take a chance on some unknown commodity than to spend the first round pick on a proven player? Really? ... Really? That doesn't make much sense. So I think there is much more at play here.

Teams know that they can get players at a much lowered price, if they just wait. The value is lowered, and yes.. the lowered value is still the "value" because that is what a team paid (we got it)...but that doesn't mean that the value given is a true indicator of the value of product.

I think Marshall is ABSOLUTELY worth the #3 pick in the draft. I think he's worth the #6 pick in the draft (although some would argue that a stud DT is worth more than a WR. Hard to argue that point, OTHER than the true fact that not every top DT drafted ever turns out to be worth the draft pick money. Marshall has proved he's an elite at THIS level, where as the DTs/LTs/QBs haven't).



That being said, I don't think we get a 1st round pick for Marshall at all. I think we get a 2nd round pick (and probably another 3rd or so next year). Does that mean I think is value is only a 2nd round pick, or does that mean I know the MARKET places him at a 2nd round pick? Why would I spend more, when I can get Marshall AND keep my first? Teams can't even play the games of trying to get another team to commit to Marshall, without signing him to an offer sheet. Why would they rush on this? Why be in that game now, when you don't need to be.

The Market and value aren't always the same. You can argue that the market determines the value...but sometimes market value is at rock bottom for many different reasons. If a team is able to get Marshall with a 2nd round pick, did they get 'good value'... or did they just purely get 'value?'

I guess I don't understand why you are defending her opinion that he is worth a #3 and not my opinion that he is not worth the #3 other than the fact that you and her agree on this (and many other topics) and you and I don't.

Another poster threw out a trade proposal and MB shot it down because she said "Marshall is worth a 3rd alone". That is completely false. If we sit on Marshall waiting on a team to give us the #1, #2, or #3 pick, he will remain a Bronco indefinitely.

You and her can both have your opinion that Marshall's talent is worth the number 3 overall pick. I'm not objecting to that. My point was there is no way in hell that anyone would give us a top 3 pick (much less a top 10 pick IMO) for Marshall meaning his worth is not that much.

Thats all.

[TXBRONC]

The FACT is Marshall is worth what a team will give up for him. PERIOD.

No that's not necessarily true LR. If that's the case then you're saying that when the rights to Plummer were traded to the Buccaneers for a 7th round pick that was all he was he was worth. While I don't think Plummer was as good some people think I do believe he was worth more than a 7th round pick. By the same token you're saying that if another team offers up a 7th round pick for a receiver that has three straight seasons of 100 plus catches he's only worth a seventh round. If this what you really mean LR then I disagree with you.

In my opinion if we get less for Marshall than what he is actually worth it means that McDaniels desire to get rid of him is greater than his desire to get full value for him.

[Midnight Blue]

I guess I don't understand why you are defending her opinion that he is worth a #3 and not my opinion that he is not worth the #3 other than the fact that you and her agree on this (and many other topics) and you and I don't.

Another poster threw out a trade proposal and MB shot it down because she said "Marshall is worth a 3rd alone". That is completely false. If we sit on Marshall waiting on a team to give us the #1, #2, or #3 pick, he will remain a Bronco indefinitely.

You and her can both have your opinion that Marshall's talent is worth the number 3 overall pick. I'm not objecting to that. My point was there is no way in hell that anyone would give us a top 3 pick (much less a top 10 pick IMO) for Marshall meaning his worth is not that much.

Thats all.

I "shot down" that "trade proposal" because in my opinion, that scenario would entail the Broncos giving up more value than they'd be getting in return. Do we really want to be to Tampa Bay what Daniel Snyder was to Shanahan's Broncos?

[JDL]

It would have to be something like Marshall, 11 and our 2nd rd pick. Maybe get a 3rd rd pick back (don't think we would do that? Look at the f-ing a. smith trade... when McD has a hard on - he will resolve it at any cost necessary.)

FTR I love Berry, he's a stud and would love him as a Bronco... but we don't have nearly enough talent at other key positions...

Seems bogus to me (PARTICULARLY) this early ... something like that wouldn't materialize until nearer the draft.

[Ravage!!!]

In my opinion if we get less for Marshall than what he is actually worth it means that McDaniels desire to get rid of him is greater than his desire to get full value for him.

EXACTLY.... sometimes the market determines the worth, and sometimes the market knows a great VALUE. There is a difference. One does not always equal the other. :beer:

[Ravage!!!]

I guess I don't understand why you are defending her opinion that he is worth a #3 and not my opinion that he is not worth the #3 other than the fact that you and her agree on this (and many other topics) and you and I don't.

Another poster threw out a trade proposal and MB shot it down because she said "Marshall is worth a 3rd alone". That is completely false. If we sit on Marshall waiting on a team to give us the #1, #2, or #3 pick, he will remain a Bronco indefinitely.

You and her can both have your opinion that Marshall's talent is worth the number 3 overall pick. I'm not objecting to that. My point was there is no way in hell that anyone would give us a top 3 pick (much less a top 10 pick IMO) for Marshall meaning his worth is not that much.

Thats all.

I've said it time and time again, that I don't think that we end up getting a 1st roundpick for him. Now I may be very wrong on that. I may end up being VERY VERY wrong on that. I don't know. I DO know that his skill set is ABSOLUTELY worth a 1st round pick. I know that if I was investing the money on a player, I would absolutely pick Marshall over anyone in the draft... EXCEPT if I knew I didn't have to.

Example: If I could go back in time, and pick players like Shannon Sharpe, Terrll Davis, and Tom Brady. Would I pick them in the first round knowing how they turn out as players? No... I would pick them in the 5th round! WHy? Because I can still get them for a 5th rounder instead of what they are worth.

Marshall's talent is absolutely a 1st round value. That doesn't mean he's not worth the 3rd or 6th pick... it just means owners don't like giving those up for players. Its almost as if its some kind of 'status' symbol to trade a top 5 pick for a player.

Just because a team is able to acquire a player for at a lower price, doesn't mean the product is worth less value, just means they got one hell of a discount.

Like I said before. You aren't talking above our heads with "his value is purely based on what we get for him." We understand what you mean. But you aren't taking any kind of variations into consideration.

[Midnight Blue]

Well... and if the Broncos have Marshall's "pricetag" set at "a first-round draft pick"... (just for Marshall)... then it doesn't seem to me that the bargain would be met with a counteroffer of "Marshall + our first round draft pick" for a "top-5 first rounder". I mean the first round does include 31 picks (not 26 or 21) that are not currently ours. Other teams have the option of: A) giving up a first rounder (wherever theirs is)... or B) not acquiring Brandon Marshall.

[Overtime]

they better not do this. TB should give us a #1 this year, and a #1 next year if they want BMarsh. nothing less would be acceptable in my book.

[Ravage!!!]

Well... and if the Broncos have Marshall's "pricetag" set at "a first-round draft pick"... (just for Marshall)... then it doesn't seem to me that the bargain would be met with a counteroffer of "Marshall + our first round draft pick" for a "top-5 first rounder". I mean the first round does include 31 picks (not 26 or 21) that are not currently ours. Other teams have the option of: A) giving up a first rounder (wherever theirs is)... or B) not acquiring Brandon Marshall.

C) None of the above and choosing other options.

[Midnight Blue]

C) None of the above and choosing other options.

Touche.

But the proposed "Marshall + our first rounder for the #3" isn't really a trade for Marshall; it's trading our #1 for theirs with Marshall thrown in as a bonus to make up for the difference between the #3 and our pick. And this is why I think it's unlikely to happen... the Broncos haven't really expressed much interest in moving up in the draft; what they want is to move Marshall for "a" first round draft pick (meaning they want Marshall gone and two first round draft picks, not one).

[Ravage!!!]

Touche.

But the proposed "Marshall + our first rounder for the #3" isn't really a trade for Marshall; it's trading our #1 for theirs with Marshall thrown in as a bonus to make up for the difference between the #3 and our pick. And this is why I think it's unlikely to happen... the Broncos haven't really expressed much interest in moving up in the draft; what they want is to move Marshall for "a" first round draft pick (meaning they want Marshall gone and two first round draft picks, not one).

I understand... they haven't 'expressed' interest..... but do you think you would hear it if they were interested?

The player that could REALLY help this team, is probably one of those top DTs more than any other position. So trading Marshall away from the value of moving up, is the same as trading him away for a 1st... otherwise you would end up having to give up several other draft picks to move that high.

Moving from 11 to 3 is roughly worth 1000 points. 1000 points is the value of getting the 12 pick in the draft. So in order for the broncos to move up 1000 points in the draft, they would have to give up a lot. Example.. our 2nd (45th) and our 3rd (80) equal up to 565 pts. So we would have to give up an additional 500 points to move up that high. So without Marshall, we would ahve to give up 2nd, 3rd, and more picks next year.

Instead, we would just move up...take the DT (probably McCoy)...and be trading out a WR for top pick DT. Thats not really bad trade value at all.

[Midnight Blue]

I understand... they haven't 'expressed' interest..... but do you think you would hear it if they were interested?

The player that could REALLY help this team, is probably one of those top DTs more than any other position. So trading Marshall away from the value of moving up, is the same as trading him away for a 1st... otherwise you would end up having to give up several other draft picks to move that high.

Moving from 11 to 3 is roughly worth 1000 points. 1000 points is the value of getting the 12 pick in the draft. So in order for the broncos to move up 1000 points in the draft, they would have to give up a lot. Example.. our 2nd (45th) and our 3rd (80) equal up to 565 pts. So we would have to give up an additional 500 points to move up that high. So without Marshall, we would ahve to give up 2nd, 3rd, and more picks next year.

Instead, we would just move up...take the DT (probably McCoy)...and be trading out a WR for top pick DT. Thats not really bad trade value at all.

In reality, we haven't heard anything at all from the front office and most teams fiercely guard their draft strategies, so no. We wouldn't hear anything about it until draft day. Marshall is a talented enough player that ideally I'd like to keep him. However, if we did make a trade and got a player like Suh, that would more than balance my dismay at losing Marshall, especially since this particular trade would take him not only out of the division but out of the conference. It's always my opinion that it's wise to keep our best players if we possibly can, although in the case of guys like Trevor Pryce who wanted more money than his performance could validly justify, then you have to let 'em go elsewhere and just hope that whatever compensation you get ultimately makes it a worthwhile trade.

[Ravage!!!]

In reality, we haven't heard anything at all from the front office and most teams fiercely guard their draft strategies, so no. We wouldn't hear anything about it until draft day. Marshall is a talented enough player that ideally I'd like to keep him. However, if we did make a trade and got a player like Suh, that would more than balance my dismay at losing Marshall, especially since this particular trade would take him not only out of the division but out of the conference. It's always my opinion that it's wise to keep our best players if we possibly can, although in the case of guys like Trevor Pryce who wanted more money than his performance could validly justify, then you have to let 'em go elsewhere and just hope that whatever compensation you get ultimately makes it a worthwhile trade.

Personally... I would love for him to be a Bronco. I hate the idea of yet another talented weapon leaving to play for another team. It actually makes me pretty disgusted.

But at the same time.. I've accepted it as fact now. I truly believe he's basically out the door, except for the official announcement and final deal being done. I do think a team will come out of nowhere. One that we didn't think about....that will be come major players at the last moment, though. I guess we'll see.

[Midnight Blue]

Personally... I would love for him to be a Bronco. I hate the idea of yet another talented weapon leaving to play for another team. It actually makes me pretty disgusted.

But at the same time.. I've accepted it as fact now. I truly believe he's basically out the door, except for the official announcement and final deal being done. I do think a team will come out of nowhere. One that we didn't think about....that will be come major players at the last moment, though. I guess we'll see.

Unfortunately, I totally agree...I think he's probably gone. At this point, I just hope that we get good value for him and that he preferably goes to an NFC team.... and absolutely that he does not eventually wind up in San Diego, KC, or Oakland to become a perennial thorn in our side.

[Lancane]

Unfortunately, I totally agree...I think he's probably gone. At this point, I just hope that we get good value for him and that he preferably goes to an NFC team.... and absolutely that he does not eventually wind up in San Diego, KC, or Oakland to become a perennial thorn in our side.

Well, I'm actually surprised that Oakland has not made a move to get him. Davis is so bad at drafting that if I was him I would easily give my first overall pick up for a young proven offensive weapon...especially with the idiot of a quarterback I drafted! Kansas City could make a run at him, but they have a much better front office then Oakland does. Cleveland, Tampa Bay and Miami should likewise make a move for him as we get closer to the draft, especially Cleveland and Tampa.

In the end I think as of now it is likely to be to Tampa Bay, either by switching picks in both the first and second rounds, or with their two second round picks, it's too bad...I would have liked to have seen him end up in either Buffalo or Seattle.

[Midnight Blue]

Well, I'm actually surprised that Oakland has not made a move to get him. Davis is so bad at drafting that if I was him I would easily give my first overall pick up for a young proven offensive weapon...especially with the idiot of a quarterback I drafted! Kansas City could make a run at him, but they have a much better front office then Oakland does. Cleveland, Tampa Bay and Miami should likewise make a move for him as we get closer to the draft, especially Cleveland and Tampa.

In the end I think as of now it is likely to be to Tampa Bay, either by switching picks in both the first and second rounds, or with their two second round picks, it's too bad...I would have liked to have seen him end up in either Buffalo or Seattle.

Al Davis already tried that once (Javon Walker) and it bit him in the butt (Unlike Marshall, though, Walker had knee issues and was... essentially... done. But talk about a costly FA bust... between him and DeAngelo Hall, Al wasted a ton of money a couple years back and got precious little production in return). :lol:

I think we'll see something happen with Marshall on draft day...

[Lancane]

Al Davis already tried that once (Javon Walker) and it bit him in the butt (Unlike Marshall, though, Walker had knee issues and was... essentially... done. But talk about a costly FA bust... between him and DeAngelo Hall, Al wasted a ton of money a couple years back and got precious little production in return). :lol:

I think we'll see something happen with Marshall on draft day...

That is what I am thinking, most likely when the target of a team is gone and they feel the risk is worth it, or at the beginning of Day 2 at the latest. If he is not traded by then, I don't see us trading him...well not to where McDaniels might not get strung up by the Denverites...lol.

[Northman]

Well, I'm actually surprised that Oakland has not made a move to get him. Davis is so bad at drafting that if I was him I would easily give my first overall pick up for a young proven offensive weapon...especially with the idiot of a quarterback I drafted! Kansas City could make a run at him, but they have a much better front office then Oakland does. Cleveland, Tampa Bay and Miami should likewise make a move for him as we get closer to the draft, especially Cleveland and Tampa.

In the end I think as of now it is likely to be to Tampa Bay, either by switching picks in both the first and second rounds, or with their two second round picks, it's too bad...I would have liked to have seen him end up in either Buffalo or Seattle.

He tried that with Javon Walker and it bit him in the ass. :lol:

[Lancane]

He tried that with Javon Walker and it bit him in the ass. :lol:

Yeah, that is true...but with his track record in the draft, he might be smarter if he did it again.

[Midnight Blue]

That is what I am thinking, most likely when the target of a team is gone and they feel the risk is worth it, or at the beginning of Day 2 at the latest. If he is not traded by then, I don't see us trading him...well not to where McDaniels might not get strung up by the Denverites...lol.

I'd expect any "Marshall trade news" to be announced during the first round... if it hasn't happened by the beginning of the second round, I don't think it happens at all.

Marshall certainly has to be a more attractive option than Darrius Heyward-Bey (sp?) or Johnnie Lee Higgins.... you know they have WR problems when their best receiver is a TE (Zach Miller).

[Ravage!!!]

Dallas would be an interesting team. I would think they would be watching this. But they did have a young new player emerge last season.

[Midnight Blue]

Dallas would be an interesting team. I would think they would be watching this. But they did have a young new player emerge last season.

Yeah, Miles Austin came along pretty well last season...

[Lancane]

Dallas would be an interesting team. I would think they would be watching this. But they did have a young new player emerge last season.

Austin came into his own, and they did trade the bank to get Roy Williams, and don't forget that Jerry Jones pretty much declared he will be a starter in Dallas, no matter what the coach wants in a round about way. No, I don't see them partaking in the Marshall sweepstakes.

[Lonestar]

Miles Austin is a RFA IIRC.


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