Broncos Gearing Up For Hillis Replacement

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=954318&nid=4203219&fhn=1

A day after the Denver Broncos traded fullback Peyton Hillis and draft picks to the Cleveland Browns for quarterback Brady Quinn, Scout.com has learned that the Broncos will conduct a private workout with Stanford running back Toby Gerhart in his hometown of Norco, California on Wednesday, March 24th.

In addition to his workout with the Broncos, Scout.com has also learned that Gerhart will work out for the New York Jets at Stanford University on Tuesday, March 30th.

The 6-foot, 231-pound Gerhart stormed onto the scene this past season after he had 343 carries for 1,871 yards and 27 touchdowns. Often compared to former Tampa Bay Buccaneers fullback Mike Alstott, the winner of the 2009 Doak Walker Award, Gerhart surprised scouts at the NFL Scouting Combine with his athleticism and straight line speed; he ran a 4.55 in the 40 and recorded a 38-inch vertical in Indianapolis.
Gerhart could come off the board as early as the mid-second round, and the worst-case scenario will have him falling into the third round. Going back to the Gerhart-Alstott comparison, Alstott was the 35th overall pick in 1996; Gerhart could end up going to the Broncos with the 45th overall selection this year.

[turftoad]

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=954318&nid=4203219&fhn=1

A day after the Denver Broncos traded fullback Peyton Hillis and draft picks to the Cleveland Browns for quarterback Brady Quinn, Scout.com has learned that the Broncos will conduct a private workout with Stanford running back Toby Gerhart in his hometown of Norco, California on Wednesday, March 24th.

In addition to his workout with the Broncos, Scout.com has also learned that Gerhart will work out for the New York Jets at Stanford University on Tuesday, March 30th.

The 6-foot, 231-pound Gerhart stormed onto the scene this past season after he had 343 carries for 1,871 yards and 27 touchdowns. Often compared to former Tampa Bay Buccaneers fullback Mike Alstott, the winner of the 2009 Doak Walker Award, Gerhart surprised scouts at the NFL Scouting Combine with his athleticism and straight line speed; he ran a 4.55 in the 40 and recorded a 38-inch vertical in Indianapolis.
Gerhart could come off the board as early as the mid-second round, and the worst-case scenario will have him falling into the third round. Going back to the Gerhart-Alstott comparison, Alstott was the 35th overall pick in 1996; Gerhart could end up going to the Broncos with the 45th overall selection this year.

Funny thing....... They compared Hillis to Alstott also. Why look at a guy like Gerhart in the 2nd or 3rd when McD didn't even use Hillis.

Makes no sense. :tsk:

[ikillz0mbies]

I've seen plenty of Stanford games to know that Gerhart is a stud. I'd love for him to be drafted by the Broncos, but with the amount of needs they have, I doubt they draft him.

[LRtagger]

I like Gerhart I think he's a beast...plus he's an Elway fan...but I hate the idea of using our second to replace Hillis. Essentially that would mean we gave up a 2nd round pick + for Quinn.

I don't mind that we traded Hillis for Quinn if McD didnt have a use for him...but if McD feels the need to use a high pick to replace Hillis, then the trade was retarded.

If they wanted Gerhart all along Hillis or no Hillis, then I'm ok with it I guess but we have way bigger needs than Gerhart even though hes a stud.

[WARHORSE]

Gerhart isnt going to go in the top two rounds.


There are too many RBs to do that and therefore I think he can be had in the fourth or fifth.

I would LOVE this pick if Denver is looking at him cause hes just a BALLER.

In the Hillis mold, I think Gerhart is a little smarter in concepts and scheme.

[Northman]

Gerharts a beast.

[Northman]

Funny thing....... They compared Hillis to Alstott also. Why look at a guy like Gerhart in the 2nd or 3rd when McD didn't even use Hillis.

Makes no sense. :tsk:

I forget where i was on here but someone posted that one of the complaints was that Hillis couldnt take punishment. Dont know how accurate that is as he seemed to be one of the tougher guys on the team but Gerhart is actually twice the bruiser that Hillis is so if we go after him i think it will be a good move.

[Ziggy]

Gerhart would be our #2 back or 1B, which means he would in no way be a replacement for Hillis.

[Ravage!!!]

It wouldn't make sense to get 'twice the bruiser' if McD wasn't willing to use a bruiser that was better than any 'bruiser' we had on the team when we needed it. Doesn't make sense to trade him away, and then draft a replacement.

That would be absolutely... ridiculous. But, we'll see.

[Ravage!!!]

Gerhart would be our #2 back or 1B, which means he would in no way be a replacement for Hillis.

No.. just means we would be basically pulling in the guy that might actually replace Moreno

[Ziggy]

No.. just means we would be basically pulling in the guy that might actually replace Moreno

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm not calling Moreno a bust until he has a chance to run without getting met in the backfield half the time. Gerhart-Moreno/Buck would be a great 1-2 punch.

[BroncoWave]

If we can get Anthony Dixon in a middle round I'd rather have him but if he goes off the the board early I wouldn't mind Gerhart either.

[ikillz0mbies]

Personally, I think Gerhart is a better runner than Hillis. He's not just a bruiser or a north-south runner, he has better vision, a smarter runner, and can definitely push a pile.

[Ravage!!!]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm not calling Moreno a bust until he has a chance to run without getting met in the backfield half the time. Gerhart-Moreno/Buck would be a great 1-2 punch.

I'm not calling a Moreno a bust, yet. I'm saying that if we use yet another top round pick on a RB to be a "1-2" punch, that would be ridiculous drafting.

I don't think that happens, however. But I find it strange that Moreno was always hit in the backfield, and Buck wasn't. I guess Moreno just has bad, timing, on the run calls.

[Tned]

Gerharts a beast.

I heard he was over-hyped.

[Ziggy]

I'm not calling a Moreno a bust, yet. I'm saying that if we use yet another top round pick on a RB to be a "1-2" punch, that would be ridiculous drafting.

I don't think that happens, however. But I find it strange that Moreno was always hit in the backfield, and Buck wasn't. I guess Moreno just has bad, timing, on the run calls.

I'd like to find the metrics on the plays called for each RB for each down, distance, and direction. Buck was clearly the better rb last year. I have no qualms admitting that. Being met in the backfield as soon as you get the ball has less to do with vision and more to do with blocking than anything else though. Knowshon needs to be more patient with his blocks, but there were just too many times that there weren't any blocks to wait on. Hopefully we improve the Oline, get some folks healthy, and can watch both of them have some lanes to run through.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Gerhart-posts-top-RB-Wonderlic-score.html

It looks like that Stanford education is already starting to pay dividends for running back Toby Gerhart.

The Heisman Trophy finalist—who led the country in rushing yards (1,871) and touchdowns (28) in 2009—brought home the top score in the Wonderlic exam among this year’s running back class with a 30, according to a league source.

The Wonderlic test is a 12-minute, 50 question exam aimed at evaluating a prospect’s problem-solving abilities.

There has been much debate (especially from our readers) as to whether or not the test has any real significance in determining how a college football player will perform at the next level.

Some of the other top performers among the running backs include BYU’s Manase Tonga (29), LSU’s Charles Scott (26), Tennessee’s Montario Hardesty (25), Mississippi State’s Anthony Dixon (25) and North Dakota State’s Pat Paschall (25).

Rounding out the bottom of the class was Clemson’s C.J. Spiller, who scored a 10.

[Ravage!!!]

I'd like to find the metrics on the plays called for each RB for each down, distance, and direction. Buck was clearly the better rb last year. I have no qualms admitting that. Being met in the backfield as soon as you get the ball has less to do with vision and more to do with blocking than anything else though. Knowshon needs to be more patient with his blocks, but there were just too many times that there weren't any blocks to wait on. Hopefully we improve the Oline, get some folks healthy, and can watch both of them have some lanes to run through.


I think it came down to speed. Bucky made Moreno look like he was standing still. I just think Moreno is too slow.

But as you said, lets hope we get things figured out and improved for both this coming season.

[Tned]

I'd like to find the metrics on the plays called for each RB for each down, distance, and direction. Buck was clearly the better rb last year. I have no qualms admitting that. Being met in the backfield as soon as you get the ball has less to do with vision and more to do with blocking than anything else though. Knowshon needs to be more patient with his blocks, but there were just too many times that there weren't any blocks to wait on. Hopefully we improve the Oline, get some folks healthy, and can watch both of them have some lanes to run through.

Buck was far superior to Moreno last year, but Moreno was a rookie, so I don't think that is any indication of what type of career Moreno will have.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2010-nfl-draft/Toby-Gerhart.html

Runningback

Stanford

Senior

Ht: 6’ 1” 235 lbs.

Strengths: Strength, toughness, Power, Vision, Patience, Explosiveness, Blocking, nose for the end zone.

Weaknesses: Not much at all, speed is a question mark, but he looks very fast on the field.

Early projections make the 2010 NFL Draft the “Year of the Big Back” as seniors LeGarrette Blount of Oregon, Charles Scott from LSU and Toby Gerhart out of Stanford and junior Jonathon Dwyer of Georgia Tech are listed as some of the best backs available for next year. All four are at least 230 lbs and all four could potentially be franchise backs at the next level.

Only the fifth Stanford RB to reach 1,000 yards, Gerhart proved his status as a top prospect by running for 101-yards and a TD against USC and 103-yards with a TD against Cal last season (both Cardinal losses), finishing the year on a strong note for the 5-7 Cardinals. For the year, Gerhart had 8 100-yard games, including a 152-yard, 2 TD game against Oregon State and 138-yards and 2 TD in a close loss to UCLA, 23-20. Gerhart’s 1,136 yards set the school record.

His 2007 season became a wash due to a knee injury, but he gave a glimpse of his potential after cruising for 141-yards and a TD on only 12 carries against San Jose State in his only action of that year. In 2006, he was Stanford’s second leading rusher with 403-yards.

A power back with excellent speed, Gerhart is simply too powerful for many LB and especially defensive backs to handle. He runs with no fear and can surprise defenders with a good burst through the middle. Able to plow through defenders or bounce of them, Gerhart possesses the sound feet and balance to keep plays alive, pushing forward for extra yards with defenders draped over him. Lacks an extra, breakaway gear but has the speed to get outside and makes life miserable for corners trying to bring him down. Shows great patience in letting the play develop and the vision to find a crease. His strength carries over into pass protection and he’s already proficient in this area.

Gerhart has solid hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield. As Stanford’s lone offensive threat, Gerhart routinely had to face extra defenders in the box looking to slow him down. Few succeeded as he was credited with only 40 yards for loss on the entire season.

A member of the Stanford baseball team as well, Gerhart will need to ease team’s minds that he is focused solely on football but it seems like football is where his career is taking him. Gerhart lacks the burst and explosiveness to make him truly elite as a prospect and will likely keep him from being an early selection. In the open-field he has few moves but does possess a little wiggle in him to at least keep from taking huge hits. As he continues to develop, he will learn to harness his power even better, a scary thought for future opponents.

Not as flashy as other backs and not at the level of Dwyer, who could be one of the best backs to enter the NFL, don’t sleep on Gerhart. He’s expected to carry the ball 25 times a game in 2009 and his stats should rise once again. He may not be a Heisman candidate but an injury free season and more solid games against big boys like USC, Cal and UCLA should assure Gerhart of at least a second round pick come next April.

[nevcraw]

I was just thinking earlier today how funny (in a odd way) it would be if MCd drafted this kid after letting Hillis go.. May not happen but it would fit the perfectly in the WTF world of josh Mcdaniels.

[Ziggy]

I think it came down to speed. Bucky made Moreno look like he was standing still. I just think Moreno is too slow.

But as you said, lets hope we get things figured out and improved for both this coming season.

I think you can make up for speed with vision. Terrell Davis did it. He took the lane so quickly that defenders would get caught running or leaning the wrong way and it made him look fast. If you watched his games, you know that he didn't really outrun people. In fact he was caught from behind quite often in the open field. I haven't seen that quality from Moreno yet, but I'm hoping he has it when the running lanes start to open up. Hopefully he was just thinking too much this season and not playing on instinct.

[Ziggy]

I was just thinking earlier today how funny (in a odd way) it would be if MCd drafted this kid after letting Hillis go.. May not happen but it would fit the perfectly in the WTF world of josh Mcdaniels.

Only if you think that Hillis was a great RB. I don't think that drafting a RB has anything to do with letting Hillis go. I think it was going to happen whether he was here or not. McD just didn't believe that Hillis was the answer. Maybe Hillis will prove him wrong, maybe he won't. Hillis was fun to watch in 2008. I love the way he runs. Bobby Turner is the best RB coach in the business. If he believed that Hillis was a great RB, I suspect that the Redskins would have came after him with a fury. It obviously didn't happen.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Moreno will be fine behind a decent interior. I hope. Hillis is no Gerhart. Who wouldn't want this guy on our team, especially if we are going to implement a power running game? He won't burn defenders, but he is very quick and shifty for his size. Gerhart possesses nice footwork for a big guy and hits the hole hard enough he stands a chance against NFL linebackers. He doesn't shy away from contact and fights for the extra yardage.

I don't know if he is capable of catch 40 balls a year, but we already have a guy who can do that - Moreno. A nice 1a, 1b-2 punch of Moreno/Gerhart and Buckhalter would be nice. Too many times last year we couldn't run the ball in the 3rd and 4th quarter, forcing McDaniels to try and get creative by running quick screens or short routes to compensate for the lack of a running game. Put a guy like Gerhart in who can finish off the game and wear out the defense, create some 4-5 yard gains and it will mae both McDaniels and Orton's job easier.

I know we are looking at filling needs on the offensive and defensive lines first, which I hope for, but we still are missing some important players who can move the chains and score some points. I don't mind Orton, but the Broncos are going to have to create other ways to score the ball, and keep some possession. We aren't going to win in a shootout with the Colts or Patriots, thats pretty obvious, nor are we going to win if we can't run the ball on 1st and 2nd down, and leave the ball in Orton's hands on 3rd down every time. Teams like the Ravens and Steelers have survived without scoring 20+ points every game because they depend on a consistent running game and a dependable defense.

A little highlight of Gerhart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtX_B99u8k

[Bozo Jr.]

Holy Cow! Wrecking Ball!

Toby Gerhart 2009 Highlights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjLh_yO41jw

[getlynched47]

Why would we want Gerhart?

Peyton Hillis >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toby Gerhart

If McDaniels didn't utilize Peyton Hillis, why would it be any different for Gerhart? Peyton Hillis is a bigger back that can run FASTER than Toby Gerhart, and didn't shred up his knee like Gerhart did in 2007.

The only thing I can think of is that Peyton Hillis had a hard time learning the system. Assuming that Gerhart didn't have this problem, I still don't see where he fits in here.

[Bozo Jr.]

JTB you beat me to it....lol:lol:

[nevcraw]

Only if you think that Hillis was a great RB. I don't think that drafting a RB has anything to do with letting Hillis go. I think it was going to happen whether he was here or not. McD just didn't believe that Hillis was the answer. Maybe Hillis will prove him wrong, maybe he won't. Hillis was fun to watch in 2008. I love the way he runs. Bobby Turner is the best RB coach in the business. If he believed that Hillis was a great RB, I suspect that the Redskins would have came after him with a fury. It obviously didn't happen.

I loved hillis's ability to catch, run people over and make people miss too.. essentially i see these two as pretty similar players, with the early nodd to Hillis because he has least played well against pro comp. when give the chance.
so dumping a cheaper player to then replace him with a similar player and higher draft pick to boot is just like dumping one of the best long snappers in the game for another one who costs more.. makes me say WTF...
you can speculate all you want about the redskins - but what they have or haven't done doesn't (in my mind) reflect anything on Hillis and their feelings about him..

[FanInAZ]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm not calling Moreno a bust until he has a chance to run without getting met in the backfield half the time. Gerhart-Moreno/Buck would be a great 1-2 punch.

It's amazes me that so many on this site are wanting to call our entire draft class from last year a bust. Yes, Moreno's rookie numbers were not spectacular, but he had a poor OL and a QB that didn't scare anyone. And how does his rookie numbers compare to HOFer Floyd Little's:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoreKn00.htm

Moreno:
247 rushing attempts for 947 yards (3.8 yards per attempt) and 7 TDs
28 receptions for 213 yards (7.6 yards per reception) and 2 TDs
1160 yards from scrimmage, 9 TDs and 4 fumbles

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LittFl00.htm

Little:
130 rushing attempts for 381 yards (2.9 yards per attempt) and 1 TD
7 receptions for 11 yards (1.9 yards per reception) and 0 TDs
392 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD and 3 Fumbles

Moreno out performed Little in every statistical category. Yes, he did have 1 more fumble on nearly twice as many attempt. In any case, Little and Broncos fans everywhere should be glad that he was not given up on just because he had a bad rookie year. If Little deserved a 2nd chance, then so does Maoreno and the rest of our draft class from last year.

[Zweems56]

It's amazes me that so many on this site are wanting to call our entire draft class from last year a bust. Yes, Moreno's rookie numbers were not spectacular, but he had a poor OL and a QB that didn't scare anyone. And how does his rookie numbers compare to HOFer Floyd Little's:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoreKn00.htm

Moreno:
247 rushing attempts for 947 yards (3.8 yards per attempt) and 7 TDs
28 receptions for 213 yards (7.6 yards per reception) and 2 TDs
1160 yards from scrimmage, 9 TDs and 4 fumbles

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LittFl00.htm

Little:
130 rushing attempts for 381 yards (2.9 yards per attempt) and 1 TD
7 receptions for 11 yards (1.9 yards per reception) and 0 TDs
392 yards from scrimmage, 1 TD and 3 Fumbles

Moreno out performed Little in every statistical category. Yes, he did have 1 more fumble on nearly twice as many attempt. In any case, Little and Broncos fans everywhere should be glad that he was not given up on just because he had a bad rookie year. If Little deserved a 2nd chance, then so does Maoreno and the rest of our draft class from last year.

I did a little bit of research for Frank Schwab via twitter, and I came up with a striking statistic for him. Emmitt Smith made the pro bowl in his rookie season with these statistics

241att 937yds 11td 48long 3.9ypc

Eerily similar to Knowshon's stats in his rookie year, and eerily similar types of backs.

edit.... Forgot receiving yards
24 228 9.5 0 57

[BroncoWave]

Why would we want Gerhart?

Peyton Hillis >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toby Gerhart

If McDaniels didn't utilize Peyton Hillis, why would it be any different for Gerhart? Peyton Hillis is a bigger back that can run FASTER than Toby Gerhart, and didn't shred up his knee like Gerhart did in 2007.

The only thing I can think of is that Peyton Hillis had a hard time learning the system. Assuming that Gerhart didn't have this problem, I still don't see where he fits in here.

False. Hillis is 15 pounds heavier but he is also 2 inches taller so the size isn't that much different.

Gerhart also ran a 4.53 40 as compared to 4.69 for Hillis.

[GEM]

I heard he was over-hyped.

Did you watch Stanford's bowl game this year? He is a bruiser, he has good vision and he runs like a mack truck. I don't think he has the speed to go in the upper rounds, but mid would fit. I don't know that he fits anywhere in our needs though.

[Timmy!]

It still cracks me up how everybody thinks Hillis was this stud all pro. I liked the guy, thought he deserved more of an opportunity under McD, but there was a reason he was a 7th round pick and couldn't get on the field last season. Heck, the Broncos very well might have cut him before long. I'll be surprised if he does much in Cleveland...he might not even make the team. Gerhart is a beast, and I'd be shocked if he's not gone by the end of the 3rd round.

[getlynched47]

False. Hillis is 15 pounds heavier but he is also 2 inches taller so the size isn't that much different.

Gerhart also ran a 4.53 40 as compared to 4.69 for Hillis.

False? You proved my point of him being bigger. I don't care if it's that much different, I didn't say he's gigantic compared to Gerhart, I said he was bigger :rolleyes:

Hillis can run 4.55

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1376

Toby Gerhart ran 4.58

Gerhart is basically the same player Hillis is, except Hillis has 2 years of NFL experience and didn't shred his knee up like Gerhart did in 2007. He'd be buried behind Buckhalter and Moreno here in Denver just like Hillis was. I don't see why we need to spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick for this guy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It still cracks me up how everybody thinks Hillis was this stud all pro. I liked the guy, thought he deserved more of an opportunity under McD, but there was a reason he was a 7th round pick and couldn't get on the field last season. Heck, the Broncos very well might have cut him before long. I'll be surprised if he does much in Cleveland...he might not even make the team. Gerhart is a beast, and I'd be shocked if he's not gone by the end of the 3rd round.

Nobody said anything about Hillis being an all-pro in this thread. All I said is that Hillis and Gerhart are similar.

[atwater27]

I loved hillis's ability to catch, run people over and make people miss too.. essentially i see these two as pretty similar players, with the early nodd to Hillis because he has least played well against pro comp. when give the chance.
so dumping a cheaper player to then replace him with a similar player and higher draft pick to boot is just like dumping one of the best long snappers in the game for another one who costs more.. makes me say WTF...
you can speculate all you want about the redskins - but what they have or haven't done doesn't (in my mind) reflect anything on Hillis and their feelings about him..

Post of the week! :beer:

[atwater27]

There is another beast of a powerback who reminds me of Jamal Lewis. But he probably has the character of him too. Maybe worth a 4th or 5th if for some reason he is still around... Lagarette Blount from oregon.

[Ziggy]

I did a little bit of research for Frank Schwab via twitter, and I came up with a striking statistic for him. Emmitt Smith made the pro bowl in his rookie season with these statistics

241att 937yds 11td 48long 3.9ypc

Eerily similar to Knowshon's stats in his rookie year, and eerily similar types of backs.

edit.... Forgot receiving yards
24 228 9.5 0 57

Emmit Smith had the best Oline and FB in the NFL for years. He had holes opened up for him that my grandmother could have ran through and gained yardage. I'm not saying Emmit wasn't talented, but he got to the 2nd level a LOT without being touched.

[Timmy!]

Nobody said anything about Hillis being an all-pro in this thread. All I said is that Hillis and Gerhart are similar.

Wasn't speaking of you in particular, just many board members in general. Hillis is extremely overrated by the majority of Bronco fans.

Actually, you said Hillis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gerhart. :D

[Zweems56]

Emmit Smith had the best Oline and FB in the NFL for years. He had holes opened up for him that my grandmother could have ran through and gained yardage. I'm not saying Emmit wasn't talented, but he got to the 2nd level a LOT without being touched.

Point was, knowshon didn't do as well as expected, but don't count him out.

[getlynched47]

Wasn't speaking of you in particular, just many board members in general. Hillis is extremely overrated by the majority of Bronco fans.

Actually, you said Hillis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gerhart. :D

And I gave a few reasons why. Do I need to repeat? :D

Obviously, Gerhart was way more productive in college than Hillis. But Hillis was behind McFadden and Jones.

[BroncoWave]

False? You proved my point of him being bigger. I don't care if it's that much different, I didn't say he's gigantic compared to Gerhart, I said he was bigger :rolleyes:

Hillis can run 4.55

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1376

Toby Gerhart ran 4.58

Gerhart is basically the same player Hillis is, except Hillis has 2 years of NFL experience and didn't shred his knee up like Gerhart did in 2007. He'd be buried behind Buckhalter and Moreno here in Denver just like Hillis was. I don't see why we need to spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick for this guy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nobody said anything about Hillis being an all-pro in this thread. All I said is that Hillis and Gerhart are similar.

:lol: Yeah they're the exact same player, except for the fact that Gerhart was a Heisman trophy finalist while Hillis hasn't been higher than a 3rd string RB since high school.

Gerhart was a better college player, which will be proven when he is drafted much higher than Hillis was, and there is no reason to think he won't be a better pro player as well.

And yes, Gerhart hurt his knee THREE years ago. That doesn't make him any more susceptible to getting a bad hit and tearing it than Hillis.

[Timmy!]

And I gave a few reasons why. Do I need to repeat? :D

Obviously, Gerhart was way more productive in college than Hillis. But Hillis was behind McFadden and Jones.

The only real reason you gave was his 2 years experience, but that's not taking into account that Gerhart had more carries in college (I'd assume anyway). Regardless, I think Gerhart will be a baller in the NFL, and I don't see Hillis doing a lot.

It's really a pointless topic though as far as the Broncos are concerned with Hillis being gone and our team having many more needs than another RB. If we could get Gerhart in the 3rd or 4th I'd be happy. 2nd, not so much. I will be pissed if the Sparklers get their hands on him.

[Ziggy]

Point was, knowshon didn't do as well as expected, but don't count him out.

I know what your point was, and was expounding on it. Knowshon had similar stats, but with far less blocking.

[getlynched47]

:lol: Yeah they're the exact same player, except for the fact that Gerhart was a Heisman trophy finalist while Hillis hasn't been higher than a 3rd string RB since high school.

Gerhart was a better college player, which will be proven when he is drafted much higher than Hillis was, and there is no reason to think he won't be a better pro player as well.

And yes, Gerhart hurt his knee THREE years ago. That doesn't make him any more susceptible to getting a bad hit and tearing it than Hillis.



Let me lay this out as simple as possible (since I'm repeating myself)

Peyton Hillis has a similar game to Toby Gerhart, only Hillis has 2 years of NFL experience and never ripped up his knee. Tearing up your knee leaves a player more susceptible to the same injury again.

I KNOW that Gerhart had a substantially better college career than Hillis. But Hillis was behind the faster McFadden and Jones.

I am not questioning whether Gerhart will be successful in the NFL. I'm saying I see no need to spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a player with a similar skillset to Peyton Hillis when Hillis wasn't utilized by Josh McDaniels and was also buried behind Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter.

Get it? :tsk:

Now I understand this isn't a Hillis thread, so I'm going to leave it right there.

---------------------------------------------------------
With an offensive line that has yet to be addressed in free agency, I think we need to hit that need very hard early in the draft. I think we could get a power back much later in the draft if McDaniels ever decided to pair Moreno/Buckhalter with a bruiser. That 3rd round pick can become very important, maybe too important to spend on Gerhart depending on who he drafted in the first 2 rounds.

[Elevation inc]

Funny thing....... They compared Hillis to Alstott also. Why look at a guy like Gerhart in the 2nd or 3rd when McD didn't even use Hillis.

Makes no sense. :tsk:

maybe because gerhart can actually block......there is a reason gerhart is a second rd prospect and hillis was seventh.....

[Dirk]

If people would leave the "love" at the door and look at this outside the box a little it might help.

Most of us were extremely happy and surprised by the success that Hillis had in a few games. But that is all he had.

There must have been something about Hillis that just didn't jive. Something that Turner saw and McD and the rest of the coaching staff saw that we didn't/don't. That is why he didn't play last year much.

Now if we were to get Toby Gerhart who has much more potential than Hillis, it wouldn't be a bad thing. I hope if we do get him that McD doesn't reach too far in order to get him (ala A. Smith).

[broncofaninfla]

There are a handful of RBs coming out that I wouldn't mind having, Gerhart is one of them. I wouldn't want to spend a first or second round pick on a RB but I truly think we can find a rb in rounds 3-5 with equal or greater talent than Moreno.

[CoachChaz]

There are a handful of RBs coming out that I wouldn't mind having, Gerhart is one of them. I wouldn't want to spend a first or second round pick on a RB but I truly think we can find a rb in rounds 3-5 with equal or greater talent than Moreno.

I can understand being dissatisfied with McDaniels or the 2009 season, but at what point do the Bronco haters draw a line in their insanity?

[claymore]

I can understand being dissatisfied with McDaniels or the 2009 season, but at what point do the Bronco haters draw a line in their insanity?

Take your own advice. People are voicing their opinions. YOU like to get personal when you disagree.

[Chris90210]

Considering the PT that hillis got last year I think I could successfully replace him.

[CoachChaz]

Take your own advice. People are voicing their opinions. YOU like to get personal when you disagree.

Whatever. You've been on the "bitch" bandwagon for the past year. of course you're okay with someone making a comment like that. not a surprise at all. An opinion would be saying Moreno didnt have a good season to live up to the hype. Saying there are 5th round running backs that have more talent than him is just ridiculous hateful banter. Something you of all people should be well versed in.

[broncofaninfla]

Moreno has all the makings of a bust Coach. I stand by what I said with no reservations. Id Denver tried to trade Moreno right now we'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick. It will get even lower if he stumbles and fumbles like last season. Just because my opinions don't jive with yours doesn't make me a "hater". I am a very loayl Broncos fan, always have been always will be.

[claymore]

Whatever. You've been on the "bitch" bandwagon for the past year. of course you're okay with someone making a comment like that. not a surprise at all. An opinion would be saying Moreno didnt have a good season to live up to the hype. Saying there are 5th round running backs that have more talent than him is just ridiculous hateful banter. Something you of all people should be well versed in.

I love Moreno. Its one of the only few McD decisions I like. I cant understand why anyone would not like a rookie RB that got almost a 1000 yards in a throw first scheme.

The difference is I am not going to purposely be an ******* to someone who has a different opinion than mine.

[CoachChaz]

Moreno has all the makings of a bust Coach. I stand by what I said with no reservations. Id Denver tried to trade Moreno right now we'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick. It will get even lower if he stumbles and fumbles like last season. Just because my opinions don't jive with yours doesn't make me a "hater". I am a very loayl Broncos fan, always have been always will be.


I love Moreno. Its one of the only few McD decisions I like. I cant understand why anyone would not like a rookie RB that got almost a 1000 yards in a throw first scheme.

The difference is I am not going to purposely be an ******* to someone who has a different opinion than mine.

Please tell me this is a joke

All you guys do is bitch and whine about 90% of everything that goes on in Denver and then when someone who doesnt share the same view calls someone out for making an inane comment about a ROOKIE running back, you guys flock together like vultures looking for some wounded carcass. Not here ladies. You guys can all call it what you want, but at the end of the day...you're just being whiny bitches. "Wahhh...my rookie running back didnt run for 2000 yards...he sucks...and so does our rookie coach because he didnt win a Super Bowl. Someone please come wipe the sand out of my clit."

Like anyone else here, I couldn't give a flying **** if your opinions differ from mine, but the childish blind hatred just gets so goddamned old. it's like teaching pre-school.

[claymore]

Please tell me this is a joke

All you guys do is bitch and whine about 90% of everything that goes on in Denver and then when someone who doesnt share the same view calls someone out for making an inane comment about a ROOKIE running back, you guys flock together like vultures looking for some wounded carcass. Not here ladies. You guys can all call it what you want, but at the end of the day...you're just being whiny bitches. "Wahhh...my rookie running back didnt run for 2000 yards...he sucks...and so does our rookie coach because he didnt win a Super Bowl. Someone please come wipe the sand out of my clit."

Like anyone else here, I couldn't give a flying **** if your opinions differ from mine, but the childish blind hatred just gets so goddamned old. it's like teaching pre-school.Alot of stuff you say is just as irritating. If you cant handle reading posts about someones opinion, than put them on ignore.

I dont know what else to tell you.

[Chris90210]

Please tell me this is a joke

All you guys do is bitch and whine about 90% of everything that goes on in Denver and then when someone who doesnt share the same view calls someone out for making an inane comment about a ROOKIE running back, you guys flock together like vultures looking for some wounded carcass. Not here ladies. You guys can all call it what you want, but at the end of the day...you're just being whiny bitches. "Wahhh...my rookie running back didnt run for 2000 yards...he sucks...and so does our rookie coach because he didnt win a Super Bowl. Someone please come wipe the sand out of my clit."

Like anyone else here, I couldn't give a flying **** if your opinions differ from mine, but the childish blind hatred just gets so goddamned old. it's like teaching pre-school.
I never complained while shanny was around but I just can't really see what positives McD has accomplished. Other than Nolan's D. McD wants this to be his team and his vision which is what every coach wants but until he proves himself to the fans he will be ridiculed and having a 6-0 start them imploding in the home stretch does not help.

[broncofaninfla]

Please tell me this is a joke

All you guys do is bitch and whine about 90% of everything that goes on in Denver and then when someone who doesnt share the same view calls someone out for making an inane comment about a ROOKIE running back, you guys flock together like vultures looking for some wounded carcass. Not here ladies. You guys can all call it what you want, but at the end of the day...you're just being whiny bitches. "Wahhh...my rookie running back didnt run for 2000 yards...he sucks...and so does our rookie coach because he didnt win a Super Bowl. Someone please come wipe the sand out of my clit."

Like anyone else here, I couldn't give a flying **** if your opinions differ from mine, but the childish blind hatred just gets so goddamned old. it's like teaching pre-school.

Unlike you, I never attack anybody personally on this site. Fans might not agree on everything that goes on in Denver but we are all Broncos fans and in the end I'd high five any one of you on game day. There is no blind hatred with me, none. I was brought up and taught that respect is something that is earned, the jury is still out on Mcd for me. I post everytime I like or agree with MCD but you don't flame me then, only when I am critical of his decisions. As though you either have blind love or just like to argue. I respect your posts and opinions coach but the cry baby acting like a menstrating woman thing gets old at times.

[CoachChaz]

Unlike you, I never attack anybody personally on this site. Fans might not agree on everything that goes on in Denver but we are all Broncos fans and in the end I'd high five any one of you on game day. There is no blind hatred with me, none. I was brought up and taught that respect is something that is earned, the jury is still out on Mcd for me. I post everytime I like or agree with MCD but you don't flame me then, only when I am critical of his decisions. As though you either have blind love or just like to argue. I respect your posts and opinions coach but the cry baby acting like a menstrating woman thing gets old at times.

Is this the pot trying to call the kettle black? Wow.

[CoachChaz]

I never complained while shanny was around but I just can't really see what positives McD has accomplished. Other than Nolan's D. McD wants this to be his team and his vision which is what every coach wants but until he proves himself to the fans he will be ridiculed and having a 6-0 start them imploding in the home stretch does not help.

Take away 1997-1999 and tell me you cant say the EXACT same things about Shanny. 3 good years prove a coach to be great? Seriously...I'm asking.

[Chris90210]

Take away 1997-1999 and tell me you cant say the EXACT same things about Shanny. 3 good years prove a coach to be great? Seriously...I'm asking.

Here 13 years with a winning record for nine of those years 2 sb rings, 1 afc championship appearance, 4 playoff appearances.

7 out of those nine winning seasons we were in the post season.

Yes I will go out on the limb and say that he was a great coach.

[CoachChaz]

Here 13 years with a winning record for nine of those years 2 sb rings, 1 afc championship appearance, 4 playoff appearances.

7 out of those nine winning seasons we were in the post season.

Yes I will go out on the limb and say that he was a great coach.

The last 10 were special

[NightTrainLayne]

Please guys, let's leave the personal stuff out of the thread and keep it on topic.

My thoughts on Gerhart. We just looked at him. Doesn't mean we're actually plannin on taking him. I understand the thought process that would say, "why the heck did we get rid of Hillis if we're taking Gerhart." But let's wait until we actually take Gerhart before we jump off a bridge.

[Northman]

I heard he was over-hyped.


Not likely.

[Northman]

Did you watch Stanford's bowl game this year? He is a bruiser, he has good vision and he runs like a mack truck. I don't think he has the speed to go in the upper rounds, but mid would fit. I don't know that he fits anywhere in our needs though.

The dude single handedly beat USC. I watched that game in total amazement and they couldnt STOP HIM AT ALL. :lol:

[Nomad]

The dude single handedly beat USC. I watched that game in total amazement and they couldnt STOP HIM AT ALL. :lol:

And look what he did to the Golden Domers!!:D

[Northman]

If people would leave the "love" at the door and look at this outside the box a little it might help.

Most of us were extremely happy and surprised by the success that Hillis had in a few games. But that is all he had.

There must have been something about Hillis that just didn't jive. Something that Turner saw and McD and the rest of the coaching staff saw that we didn't/don't. That is why he didn't play last year much.

Now if we were to get Toby Gerhart who has much more potential than Hillis, it wouldn't be a bad thing. I hope if we do get him that McD doesn't reach too far in order to get him (ala A. Smith).

Exactly.

[broncofaninfla]

For the record I liked Hillis because he was a bruiser, with good hands and feet, not because he is white. I like Toby Gerhart too and feel he brings the same skills to the table but feel there are better backs than him out there. I also like he wears #7 and is from Stanford. I wouldn't mind having him on the team BUT only if he will be given a fair chance to earn reps.

[Ravage!!!]

He's a Stanford boy... who doesn't like Stanford players?? Elway, McCaffrey, Lynch.... the list goes on. I love Stanford players.

[Elevation inc]

i see no problem bring in a second rd bruiser for this team to help moreno out....all it does is help the offense...how is that a bad thing????

[broncofaninfla]

i see no problem bring in a second rd bruiser for this team to help moreno out....all it does is help the offense...how is that a bad thing????

From what I've seen to date, Moreno needs all of the help he can get. Buck is a better back by far but is too gimpy. Gone are Jordan and Hillis, and Arrington wasn't anything special when he was healthy, now his health is in question, Hopefully we do add another RB in the draft this year.....

[Elevation inc]

From what I've seen to date, Moreno needs all of the help he can get. Buck is a better back by far but is too gimpy. Gone are Jordan and Hillis, and Arrington wasn't anything special when he was healthy, now his health is in question, Hopefully we do add another RB in the draft this year.....

i disagree in full with your assesment of moreno.....but i do agree we need another back besides bucky who has been injury prone his whole career....:beer:

[claymore]

to many good rbs is a problem I want.

[Mike]

to many good rbs is a problem I want.

Too many good linemen is a problem I want. :beer:

[JONtheBRONCO]

Hillis and Gerhart are like night and day - and I won't argue that. Saying Hillis could've been the player Gerhart is, but wasn't, because he was behind McFadden and Jones is assuming, and thats just that, assuming. Theres nothing behind it. Gerhart is where he is for a reason, the same goes for Hillis.

[claymore]

Too many good linemen is a problem I want. :beer:

Me too. A problem I dont want is lots of mediocre QB's!

[CoachChaz]

Me too. A problem I dont want is lots of mediocre QB's!

Too late

[claymore]

Too late

LMAO! No kidding!

[Traveler]

I'd LMAO if Denver drafted another QB within the first two rounds. This place would go ape shit!

[broncofaninfla]

I'd LMAO if Denver drafted another QB within the first two rounds. This place would go ape shit!

Honestly I'd love it. If we can upgrade at the QB position early on, I say go for it.

[CoachChaz]

Honestly I'd love it. If we can upgrade at the QB position early on, I say go for it.

IMO, it's not like Quinn or Brandstater really cost us all that much, so if someone falls into our lap in a good spot, I wouldnt have a problem

[dogfish]

I'd LMAO if Denver drafted another QB within the first two rounds. This place would go ape shit!

not necessarily. . . i can only speak for myself, but as far as i'm concerned we really don't have any good QBs on the roster-- and i can't think of a better reason for drafting one. . .

digging some garbage that no one else wanted out of cleveland's dumpster isn't exactly a reason to ignore the most important position in pro sports. . . you don't hear anyone saying "we've got spencer larsen, we're set at ILB" or "we better not waste a pick on iupati after we re-signed hochstein". . .

[G_Money]

Don't draft people we don't intend to use. Please add players who can actually be allowed on the field and can contribute when they get there.

And if we draft somebody like McCoy I really will fall off my chair. We didn't pay much for Brady Quinn but I do expect him to be the one who somehow becomes the "heir" to the throne.

Please show em a picture of the throne, clay.

~G

[JONtheBRONCO]

No more QB's, agreed. I really hope we are taking best player available. Our team could use a ton of players, and reaching for a need would make me puke. I've always hated when the Broncos have reached based on needs. Be creative if there isn't anyone we want at #11, trade back, etc. I think thats what the later rounds can be used for anyway. In the first 2 rounds, you have potentially the 64 best college athletes to choose from, with the exception of a couple spots on our roster, I'm hoping Xanders and McDaniels are thinking the same. I would love it if we could grab some studs that fill our needs, but I won't exactly be dissatisfied if we do take a guy who might not fill a position of need right away but will contribute and make some plays for us in the meantime. Joe Haden and Eric Berry come to mind. Berry will be tough to get, but who knows....

[Ravage!!!]

Don't draft people we don't intend to use. Please add players who can actually be allowed on the field and can contribute when they get there.

And if we draft somebody like McCoy I really will fall off my chair. We didn't pay much for Brady Quinn but I do expect him to be the one who somehow becomes the "heir" to the throne.

Please show em a picture of the throne, clay.

~G

did you say 'error' to the thrown? :D

[hotcarl]

love this thread alot, good job guys!