Peter King MMQB Denver notes.....

[broncofaninfla]

• You think the McNabb market is soft? Look at what Brady Quinn yielded. Denver gave Cleveland versatile backup runner Peyton Hillis (who might be the best player in this trade), a sixth-round pick this year and a conditional pick in the 2012 draft that I'm told won't be better than a fourth-round pick. This for the 22nd pick in 2007, who had 12 starts to prove he belonged.
Unfortunately for Quinn the Cleveland regime changed, and Eric Mangini wasn't a big fan -- not that Quinn gave him much reason to be. In Denver, Quinn enters camp as the clear backup to restricted free-agent Kyle Orton (Josh McDaniels called Orton to tell him he was the starter on Sunday). But being under the tutelage of McDaniels should help Quinn, who needs to become less frenetic in his drops and picking out the open receiver.
Hillis prove more than capable under Mike Shanahan in 2008, playing running back and fullback for the Broncos and going on a strong five-game run in the backfield before tearing his hamstring late in the season; I guarantee he'll be a favorite of Mangini's for his versatility, the way Mangini loves players like Josh Cribbs and Blake Costanzo.
Last point: It's likely that Chris Simms will be the odd man out in Denver, with Orton, Quinn and 2009 rookie Tom Brandstater likely to be 1-2-3 on the depth chart at quarterback.
• Denver had a more important signing during the week. Nose tackle Jamal Williams, the long-time Charger, signed as part of a defensive line makeover (Denver added Justin Bannan and Jarvis Green,too), and this will be one of the most interesting signings in free agency this year. Williams played at an all-decade level for the Chargers (on my all-decade team, at least) before missing 15 games last year with a torn triceps. Had the Chargers not had so many free agents to sign, they probably would have made Williams more of a focus instead of allowing him to walk when his contract expired.
When he arrived in Denver for a visit last week, he weighed 334 (down about a dozen pounds from his playing weight, impressive for an offseason visit), and the Denver coaches who watched video of him in his last two years saw no sign of decline; neither did independent observers like Aaron Schatz of Footballoutsiders.com. If Williams is right, he'll be the perfect nose to draw double-teams, something Denver didn't have in 2009.



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[silkamilkamonico]

[LEFT][COLOR=white]• You think the McNabb market is soft? Look at what Brady Quinn yielded. Denver gave Cleveland versatile backup runner Peyton Hillis (who might be the best player in this trade), a sixth-round pick this year and a conditional pick in the 2012 draft that I'm told won't be better than a fourth-round pick.

Those are the draft pick conditions? That's an absolute steal for Denver.

Hillis plays a position where a there are a dime a dozen of them. Not to mention his value as a FB was placed in serious question with his inability to bock.

[Ziggy]

• [COLOR=white][B]• Denver had a more important signing during the week. Nose tackle Jamal Williams, the long-time Charger, signed as part of a defensive line makeover (Denver added Justin Bannan and Jarvis Green,too), and this will be one of the most interesting signings in free agency this year. Williams played at an all-decade level for the Chargers (on my all-decade team, at least) before missing 15 games last year with a torn triceps. Had the Chargers not had so many free agents to sign, they probably would have made Williams more of a focus instead of allowing him to walk when his contract expired.
When he arrived in Denver for a visit last week, he weighed 334 (down about a dozen pounds from his playing weight, impressive for an offseason visit), and the Denver coaches who watched video of him in his last two years saw no sign of decline; neither did independent observers like Aaron Schatz of Footballoutsiders.com. If Williams is right, he'll be the perfect nose to draw double-teams, something Denver didn't have in 2009.


This was the best part of this article. Jamal will be a better FA signing than Peppers. That's right, I said it.

[jlarsiii]

This was the best part of this article. Jamal will be a better FA signing than Peppers. That's right, I said it.

If he can manage to stay healthy and on the field you may be right. Stats won't show it, but they never would when you compare a NT to a DE in most defensive packages. I hope you are correct sir.

[Lancane]

This was the best part of this article. Jamal will be a better FA signing than Peppers. That's right, I said it.

That may be true, time will tell...however, the team still has some major holes and issues to still be worked out before we call anything a success.

So did we give up this year's sixth round pick for Quinn or is it the 2011's Draft six round pick?

[broncofaninfla]

I'll bet bottom dollar Hillis isn't wasted at FB, he'll be toting the rock and catching passes.......for Cleveland.

[CoachChaz]

I'll bet bottom dollar Hillis isn't wasted at FB, he'll be toting the rock and catching passes.......for Cleveland.

Somebody there has to

[broncofaninfla]

I think Hillis will do more for Cleveland than Quinn will for Denver.

[Ziggy]

That may be true, time will tell...however, the team still has some major holes and issues to still be worked out before we call anything a success.
So did we give up this year's sixth round pick for Quinn or is it the 2011's Draft six round pick?

I disagree. You rebuild a team through the trenches. If we get a lot better on the defensive line, then it's a success. Last year, the secondary reclamation project was a success. In the salary cap era, you just don't rebuild a team in 1 year. As much as we would all love for it to happen, it doesn't. The fact that McD is putting emphasis in the trenches is encouraging to me. I'm guessing that the Oline is next. Find a center and get some depth at guard and tackle, and the Oline is good to go. The Jets are a perfect example of how to build a team. Look at what they've done along the lines that last 4-5 years. That's how it's done, and it wasn't done overnight. As for the draft pick for Quinn, the 6th rounder that we gave up is in 2011.

[LRtagger]

You forgot the part where King mistakes Hillis for Larsen by saying Hillis played RB and LB for us last year. He's the best player in the trade, but King doesn't even know who he really is :laugh:


You think the McNabb market is soft? Look at what Brady Quinn yielded. Denver gave Cleveland versatile backup runner Peyton Hillis (who might be the best player in this trade), a sixth-round pick this year and a conditional pick in the 2012 draft that I'm told won't be better than a fourth-round pick. This for the 22nd pick in 2007, who had 12 starts to prove he belonged.

Unfortunately for Quinn the Cleveland regime changed, and Eric Mangini wasn't a big fan -- not that Quinn gave him much reason to be. In Denver, Quinn enters camp as the clear backup to restricted free-agent Kyle Orton (Josh McDaniels called Orton to tell him he was the starter on Sunday). But being under the tutelage of McDaniels should help Quinn, who needs to become less frenetic in his drops and picking out the open receiver.

Hillis became a two-way sensation under Mike Shanahan in 2008, playing running back and linebacker for the Broncos and going on a strong five-game run in the backfield before tearing his hamstring late in the season; I guarantee he'll be a favorite of Mangini's for his versatility, the way Mangini loves players like Josh Cribbs and Blake Costanzo.

Last point: It's likely that Chris Simms will be the odd man out in Denver, with Orton, Quinn and 2009 rookie Tom Brandstater likely to be 1-2-3 on the depth chart at quarterback.


Guess he edited the original.

[Northman]

I'll bet bottom dollar Hillis isn't wasted at FB, he'll be toting the rock and catching passes.......for Cleveland.

Good for Peyton, at least now he wont go to waste. He wasnt being used here so we should be happy with the trade.

[Ziggy]

Good for Peyton, at least now he wont go to waste. He wasnt being used here so we should be happy with the trade.

Exactly. I wish him the best when it doesn't affect the Broncos. Why do I get the feeling that nearly every thread in this forum is going to turn into either this or a Quinn sucks debate during the offseason?

[#1dolphinfan]

I have said it before and i will say it again you guys got a steal in this trade this offense will make him better as will the HC i think he will be starting by mid season for you guys because i think the broncos are going to struggle with the loss of Nolan on defense.

[Ziggy]

I have said it before and i will say it again you guys got a steal in this trade this offense will make him better as will the HC i think he will be starting by mid season for you guys because i think the broncos are going to struggle with the loss of Nolan on defense.

Nolan was good, no doubt. We appreciate what he did for the D. Don't count Martindale out though. He coached a great 3-4 D in college and won a championship (D-2) with it. He knows how to coach the system. Denver also upgraded a very mediocre at best D-line.

[dogfish]

You forgot the part where King mistakes Hillis for Larsen by saying Hillis played RB and LB for us last year. He's the best player in the trade, but King doesn't even know who he really is :laugh:



Guess he edited the original.

nobody really knows who chuck norris is, either-- just sayin'. . .

[broncofaninfla]

Good for Peyton, at least now he wont go to waste. He wasnt being used here so we should be happy with the trade.

I'm happy for Hillis but sad he wasn't given a shot here. I'm happy he'll get a chance in Cleveland because I really feel he is going to kick *ss and Cleveland fans are going to love this guy. I'm also happy that the people that flame Hillis supporters will eat crow. I liked Hillis but I am first and foremost a Broncos fan. It was VERY fustrating to watch Moreno fumble and stumble last year yet still get a majority of the carries. It seemed Mcd prioritized Morenos development over first downs and victories at times as he just kept feeding the ball to the very ineffective rookie time and time again. Moreno was given more than his fair share of chances to get his rythym while Hillis was never allowed to get his. I keep hearing that Hillis didn't fit the system. This system isn't very FB freindly but Hillis is a better HB than FB. Hillis should have gotten more reps last year now he'll get his chance with Cleveland.

[claymore]

Half of me thinks Hillis was traded just to stop the post game Hillis questions!

[e-Lou-sive1]

Hillis wasn't going to be utilized in McDaniels offensive scheme so he is better off in Cleveland's dog pound. Now that Denver has Quinn what are the odds we pick up another running back that fits the Broncos offense.

Quinn is a good pick up since Cleveland had very little offense to begin with and Mangini who is lucky himself to still have a job. If Orton is has good as he thinks he is he shouldn't have any trouble starting but most analyists believe that Quinn will either start right away or midway through the season.

Mc Daniels is under a lot of pressure to make something happen this season. He will look at all positions and go with the best personnel that will give the Broncos the best chances of winning.

[LRtagger]

I'm happy for Hillis but sad he wasn't given a shot here. I'm happy he'll get a chance in Cleveland because I really feel he is going to kick *ss and Cleveland fans are going to love this guy. I'm also happy that the people that flame Hillis supporters will eat crow. I liked Hillis but I am first and foremost a Broncos fan. It was VERY fustrating to watch Moreno fumble and stumble last year yet still get a majority of the carries. It seemed Mcd prioritized Morenos development over first downs and victories at times as he just kept feeding the ball to the very ineffective rookie time and time again. Moreno was given more than his fair share of chances to get his rythym while Hillis was never allowed to get his. I keep hearing that Hillis didn't fit the system. This system isn't very FB freindly but Hillis is a better HB than FB. Hillis should have gotten more reps last year now he'll get his chance with Cleveland.

If Hillis is a better RB then FB, why didnt he play RB in college? Why wasn't he drafted before round 7 as a RB? Why did he not get a chance under Mike until we had no other option?

Don't forget, Tater came in here last year off the street and ran the ball just as well as Hillis. I know we all loved Hillis because he beat up defenders, but statistically he wasn't any more effective than Pittman or Tater last year.

Like I said before, Hillis busted his ass for us last year, but the guy is best suited as a utility man. He's an average FB and a pretty average RB (IMO). I felt he would have been best under Mike as an H-back or TE similar to the role Dallas Clark plays. Hillis' best trait are his hands, but McD doesn't run that type of offense. It was best for Hillis and McD that they part ways.

[broncofaninfla]

If Hillis is a better RB then FB, why didnt he play RB in college? Why wasn't he drafted before round 7 as a RB? Why did he not get a chance under Mike until we had no other option?

Don't forget, Tater came in here last year off the street and ran the ball just as well as Hillis. I know we all loved Hillis because he beat up defenders, but statistically he wasn't any more effective than Pittman or Tater last year.

Like I said before, Hillis busted his ass for us last year, but the guy is best suited as a utility man. He's an average FB and a pretty average RB (IMO). I felt he would have been best under Mike as an H-back or TE similar to the role Dallas Clark plays. Hillis' best trait are his hands, but McD doesn't run that type of offense. It was best for Hillis and McD that they part ways.

He played behind two college studs at Arkansas for one. Also, it's not uncommon for players to play one postion in college and another in the NFL. Lynch payed QB at Stanford but was an all pro Safety in the NFL, it happens. My declaration that Hillis is a better RB than FB is strictly an opinion based on the limited action I saw from him in 2008. I predict he will be used more at HB than at FB in Cleveland and I bet he will have the same success he had in 2008.

[Ravage!!!]

If Hillis is a better RB then FB, why didnt he play RB in college? Why wasn't he drafted before round 7 as a RB? Why did he not get a chance under Mike until we had no other option?



Same reason TD wasn't run much in college and wasn't drafted until the 6th? Not to say that Hillis was a TD, but TD sat behind Hearst.

Hillis had both McFadden and Felix Jones in the same backfield. Some avid AK fans will tell you that Hillis was the BEST of the three, and those two were 1st round draft picks at RB.

Warner didn't get a chance to play QB until someone got hurt. How is it he played on several different NFL teams, played in the Arena league, and Vermeil was still allowing him to be picked up for FREE for the expansion teams (and THEY didn't pick him up) if he was so good? Sometimes players just don't get viewed in practice, especially when y ou are talking about a FB getting practice time as a RB/TB.

Don't be surprised that he wasn't at the top of the list purely based on the things you questioned. It happens a lot. Players get hidden. Do you think KC would have given 63 Million to Cassel had he not played for an INJURED Brady?

[LRtagger]

Same reason TD wasn't run much in college and wasn't drafted until the 6th? Not to say that Hillis was a TD, but TD sat behind Hearst.

Hillis had both McFadden and Felix Jones in the same backfield. Some avid AK fans will tell you that Hillis was the BEST of the three, and those two were 1st round draft picks at RB.

Warner didn't get a chance to play QB until someone got hurt. How is it he played on several different NFL teams, played in the Arena league, and Vermeil was still allowing him to be picked up for FREE for the expansion teams (and THEY didn't pick him up) if he was so good? Sometimes players just don't get viewed in practice, especially when y ou are talking about a FB getting practice time as a RB/TB.

Don't be surprised that he wasn't at the top of the list purely based on the things you questioned. It happens a lot. Players get hidden. Do you think KC would have given 63 Million to Cassel had he not played for an INJURED Brady?

You are talking about exceptions to the rule. Everyone likes to chastise McDaniels for not finding a way to utilize Hillis, but why should he? His college coach didnt, the NFL coach that drafted him didnt until he absolutely HAD to.

It takes a lot of pieces falling into place for a guy like TD or Warner to be successful. TD had the benefit of running behind one of the best offensive lines in NFL history...at a time when the ZBS was new and dominated defenses.

And while Warner had a great career, he was only great when he had elite receivers to throw to.

Like I said, what did Hillis do last year that Pittman or Tater didn't do? For that matter, what did he do in 2008 that Selvin Young didnt do in 2007? Point being none of those guys are currently in the NFL.

Check the archives...I was the first person to suggest getting Hillis onto the field in some type of role two seasons ago when he was a rookie. And I still don't see why everyone has a boner for him. Some people even go as far as to pin our late season collapse in 08 solely on him going on IR. In case anyone missed it, he had an average game in the loss to Oakland that year and had only one great game that came against NYJ.

Come on...the guy was an average to above average player and he served a very limited role even in the year that people fell in love with him. It took him almost an entire year for Mike to give him a role. Even then the guy averaged 5 yards per carry in an offense that guys like Pittman averaged 4.2, Selvin averaged 5, Torain averaged 4.6, Tater averaged 5.7, and PJ Pope averaged 7.6. I just dont see why everyone is so up in arms over this.

[broncofaninfla]

We'll see what he does in Cleveland............

[SOCALORADO.]

We'll see what he does in Cleveland............

Agreed. Now lets never talk about Hillis until after the end of next season.
;)

[Traveler]

Agreed. Now lets never talk about Hillis until after the end of next season.
;)

Amen to that!

[tomjonesrocks]

Hillis is likable but Harrison tore-it-up down the stretch last year. How many touches is he even going to get?

Somehow am not too concerned about Hillis turning into Jerome Bettis anytime soon but it wouldn't upset me to see him become a solid role player with Cleveland.

[LRtagger]

We'll see what he does in Cleveland............

I hope he does well. It doesn't mean he would have done well here under McD.

I just hope all the tools don't flood the forums with I told you so posts if he does succeed.

[Ravage!!!]

I hope he does well. It doesn't mean he would have done well here under McD.

I just hope all the tools don't flood the forums with I told you so posts if he does succeed.

Just as much as we see all the "tools" with the I told you so's if he doesn't.

[silkamilkamonico]

He played behind two college studs at Arkansas for one. Also, it's not uncommon for players to play one postion in college and another in the NFL. Lynch payed QB at Stanford but was an all pro Safety in the NFL, it happens. My declaration that Hillis is a better RB than FB is strictly an opinion based on the limited action I saw from him in 2008. I predict he will be used more at HB than at FB in Cleveland and I bet he will have the same success he had in 2008.

Peyton Hillis is Rueben Droughns version 2.0 and Mike Anderson version 3.0.

[Northman]

He played behind two college studs at Arkansas for one. Also, it's not uncommon for players to play one postion in college and another in the NFL. Lynch payed QB at Stanford but was an all pro Safety in the NFL, it happens. My declaration that Hillis is a better RB than FB is strictly an opinion based on the limited action I saw from him in 2008. I predict he will be used more at HB than at FB in Cleveland and I bet he will have the same success he had in 2008.

Here's where i actually strongly disagree with you. I think Hillis would be a far better FB than RB. I was hoping he would become our next Howard Griffith evidently because of his lack blocking ability he became useless for us in that regard. He might be able to spell harrison a little bit but i dont think Hillis will become the starter nor a dominant force at the RB position. I believe any success he will have is at FB plowing the way for Harrison and catching balls out of the backfield. Nothing spectacular but very important to any franchise but McD didnt look at him in that regard so the best of luck to Peyton.

[Superchop 7]

The bottom line is......

anyone with half a brain and two eyeballs knew that Hillis was on his way out of here.....

Sims was pathetic.

In the end......we upgraded the backup QB position.

So........

It's an OK deal.

That being said.....

VERY nice move for a proven NT.