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View Full Version : Does Quinn coming to Denver remind you of when Plummer came here?



Medford Bronco
03-14-2010, 08:17 PM
when we first got Plummer I thought he sucked but he really proved me wrong and was a decent QB that still had some brain farts, but overall did a pretty good job here.

Can Quinn do a good job here if he starts?

I hope so, I will be pulling for him. I root for any bronco no matter what when they are playing.

Remember if our defense can play better over 16 games then maybe
we can be better as a team.

Its not about offense totally or defense totally

any thoughts?

CrazyHorse
03-14-2010, 08:19 PM
Jake Plummer 13-3 AFCG!

Medford Bronco
03-14-2010, 08:21 PM
Jake Plummer 13-3 AFCG!

Jake Plummer had a defense as well.

Also he had Portis as a starter at RB and a very good o line at the time.

we shall see what happens

ikillz0mbies
03-14-2010, 08:23 PM
when we first got Plummer I thought he sucked but he really proved me wrong and was a decent QB that still had some brain farts, but overall did a pretty good job here.

Can Quinn do a good job here if he starts?

I hope so, I will be pulling for him. I root for any bronco no matter what when they are playing.

Remember if our defense can play better over 16 games then maybe
we can be better as a team.

Its not about offense totally or defense totally

any thoughts?

I think Quinn can do a much better job here than he did in Cleveland. Cleveland is a mess who traded away all of Quinn's weapons (2 of them: Winslow and Edwards). They had no running game to alleviate the pressure off of Quinn, and he always got yanked after one mistake. I'm listening to the live stream of Mile High Radio and the host made an interesting point that Mark Sanchez has started more games than Quinn. I'm willing to take a chance on Quinn and see what he can do in a more competent organization and an offense he is suited for. Plus, he has more to work with offensively. I'm not going to torch this move or curse at McDaniels until we all see what this move does.

broncobryce
03-14-2010, 08:24 PM
Well, Plummer was signed as a free agent, but I see your point. I don't really care if it's him or Orton, I just hope one of them kicks ass this season.

Dreadnought
03-14-2010, 08:24 PM
I had more hope for Plummer - which is still to say not much at all, because I never wanted Plummer as I thought he sucked. OTOH, I was coming off of having a brutally executed April Fool's prank played on me, brilliantly played by our office Steeler and Bears fan - the two of them successfully convinced me the Broncos had signed Kordell Stewart. No nightmare was more possible at the time. As much as I never thought Plummer was any good he was and is head and shoulders better than the awful Stewart, so it came as a relief when we 'only" got stuck with Jake.

The laugh was on friend Bearsfan a few weeks later when they signed that stiff :D I did not let him forget it either

Medford Bronco
03-14-2010, 08:27 PM
I had more hope for Plummer - which is still to say not much at all, because I never wanted Plummer as I thought he sucked. OTOH, I was coming off of having a brutally executed April Fool's prank played on me, brilliantly played by our office Steeler and Bears fan - the two of them successfully convinced me the Broncos had signed Kordell Stewart. No nightmare was more possible at the time. As much as I never thought Plummer was any good he was and is head and shoulders better than the awful Stewart, so it came as a relief when we 'only" got stuck with Jake.

The laugh was on friend Bearsfan a few weeks later when they signed that stiff :D I did not let him forget it either

lol my one memory of Kordell Stewart is in the AFC Champ game vs Denver when he threw a pick in the end zone and Romanowski pounded his helmet to tell Stewart to use his head. :lol:

I think Allen Alridge picked him off. It was awesome :salute:

Rick
03-14-2010, 08:27 PM
I think more of Orton coming here being like Plummer, decent stop gap and Quinn of like when Cutler came here to really be the man.

Not comparing Quinn to Cutler in ability but both good potential and both brought in with thoughts they could be the guy to lead team for the future.

Tned
03-14-2010, 08:28 PM
Some loved Jake, some hated him, lot's fell somewhere in between. I think we can all agree we would love to have another run where we win 75% of our games.

Medford Bronco
03-14-2010, 08:30 PM
Some loved Jake, some hated him, lot's fell somewhere in between. I think we can all agree we would love to have another run where we win 75% of our games.

Does Quinn come with Al Wilson then
That was the last time our defense was actually good over 16 games.

We shall see. I am on board.
I dont hate Quinn like some do here. He starts winning and all will be forgiven imo

Slick
03-14-2010, 08:31 PM
I kind of DO feel the same. I was never high on Quinn or Plummer, but I get/got the feeling that our current coaches at the time think/thought that they could disguise enough weaknesses to win football games. I won't try to read the mind of Josh McDaniels this time. I've decided to just try to wait and see before getting emotional about it.

Ravage!!!
03-14-2010, 08:32 PM
It doesn't feel like the same to me. Plummer was 'kinda' one of the top QB FAs out there.... not a premeire guy by any means, but someone (at the time) I was pumped about. I don't have that feeling with Quinn at all.

But maybe it will work the opposite. I was pumped for Plummer to come into town and that dwindled as I watched him play. Maybe since I'm not thrilled about Quinn coming in, he'll increase my enjoyment after watching him play.

FanInAZ
03-14-2010, 08:43 PM
When Plummer came into the league, he was billed as the next Joe Montana by none other then Bill Walsh. I watched him here in AZ and felt sorry for him because he had a horrible supporting cast. I saw him try, but fail, to do a lot of things that Elway used to do. I looked forward to him coming to Denver where I believed that he would have a chance to show how good he was. In the end, I was disappointed in the fact that he kept throwing all of those Ints.

When Quinn came into the league, I don't recall anyone really stepping up and saying that this guy would be great. He has definitely played for a lousy team, but we are not exactly world beaters right now either. Yes, I believe that we are a up grade over the Browns, but not by that much. Especially on offense.

Shazam!
03-14-2010, 09:12 PM
FaninAz is right and beat me to it.

Jake was supposed to be a very talented QB who played on a team that was trash, and replace a mediocre Denver starter. Shanahan was supposed to make him legit and many said he'd be a star in QB-starved Denver.

Quinn is virtually untested and unproven, and what has been seen of him is not good, though his teams were garbage. It isnt even close to the same.

I do think he has talent, and challenging Orton is a good thing.

On the flip side, Orton must be feeling betrayed a bit right now, but this is how the business goes.

honz
03-14-2010, 09:15 PM
Never liked Quinn, but he is now a Bronco so I shall root as hard as I possibly can for him. Simple as that for me.

JDL
03-14-2010, 09:18 PM
No... reminds me of Seattle picking up Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle... that would be acceptable.

JONtheBRONCO
03-14-2010, 09:27 PM
I'm pretty sure I used to love Plummer.

JDL
03-14-2010, 09:27 PM
When Plummer came into the league, he was billed as the next Joe Montana by none other then Bill Walsh. I watched him here in AZ and felt sorry for him because he had a horrible supporting cast. I saw him try, but fail, to do a lot of things that Elway used to do. I looked forward to him coming to Denver where I believed that he would have a chance to show how good he was. In the end, I was disappointed in the fact that he kept throwing all of those Ints.

When Quinn came into the league, I don't recall anyone really stepping up and saying that this guy would be great. He has definitely played for a lousy team, but we are not exactly world beaters right now either. Yes, I believe that we are a up grade over the Browns, but not by that much. Especially on offense.

Uhhh... Franks Sanders (INCREDIBLY underrated WR - one of the most underrated ever), Rob Moore, Adrian Murrell, Larry Centers, Thomas Jones, David Boston (Pro-Bowl version), Michael Pittman are NOT bad offensive talent ... period. The OL wasn't there, but he could buy time and mobile QBs should have been able to make use of that talent and those offenses did to some extent. HOWEVER - Plummer was always one of the BIGGEST issues with their losses.

He threw 114 INTs in freaking 6 seasons people (and simply didn't stop throwing them in Denver for more than a season... and his last season was well on his way to another minimum 18INT season)... it is the reason he got benched here... did terrific things and ruined them all with totally idiotic decisions. Shanahan simply was able to reign him in a touch more than AZ to allow more good than bad for a season and a half bracketed around a horrific one, but Shanahan grew sick of the stupidity... who didn't?

Tned
03-14-2010, 09:28 PM
I kind of DO feel the same. I was never high on Quinn or Plummer, but I get/got the feeling that our current coaches at the time think/thought that they could disguise enough weaknesses to win football games. I won't try to read the mind of Josh McDaniels this time. I've decided to just try to wait and see before getting emotional about it.

I don't see it the same way. I have not been on the "our talent sucks" bandwagon the last couple years, like many posters have been.

I think McDaniels took over a team with decent talent, especially on offense, and while he tossed some of that offensive talent, he really solidified the defense.

Right now, I think we have talent at nearly every position that ranges from average to great. Combine that with another offseason of boy wonders training regimine, and I think we will see an even more disciplined and fundamentally sound team than we saw in '09.

The major weakness we have right now is QB. There is a huge question mark about whether Orton, or Quinn now, can be enough of a play maker to constantly put up more than 20 points a game and give the defense and the team a chance to win (we were in the bottom half of the league last year).

So, I feel that we have the talent in most spots to compete, if we can get solid production out of the QB spot, but I don't have a warm fuzzy about either QB.

FanInAZ
03-14-2010, 09:59 PM
Uhhh... Franks Sanders (INCREDIBLY underrated WR - one of the most underrated ever), Rob Moore, Adrian Murrell, Larry Centers, Thomas Jones, David Boston (Pro-Bowl version), Michael Pittman are NOT bad offensive talent ... period. The OL wasn't there, but he could buy time and mobile QBs should have been able to make use of that talent and those offenses did to some extent. HOWEVER - Plummer was always one of the BIGGEST issues with their losses.

He threw 114 INTs in freaking 6 seasons people (and simply didn't stop throwing them in Denver for more than a season... and his last season was well on his way to another minimum 18INT season)... it is the reason he got benched here... did terrific things and ruined them all with totally idiotic decisions. Shanahan simply was able to reign him in a touch more than AZ to allow more good than bad for a season and a half bracketed around a horrific one, but Shanahan grew sick of the stupidity... who didn't?

The "OL wasn't there," is the understatement of the year. Yes, the Cards have always had outstanding receivers since they arrived here. Pittman and Centers were very versatile back, but neither of them could be called the feature back. That role was supposed to be fulfilled by Thomas Jones was run out of town as a bust. His 3 year total was 362 carries for 1,264 yards, 3.5 yards per carry and 9 TD. That's only 421 yards and 3 TDs a year.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneTh00.htm

Yes, he did have a great deal of success with Tampa and then Chicago. Then again, Centers and Pittman also had more success with Tampa. In fact, everyone that played for the Cards at that time and left to play for other teams (except Boston), enjoyed better success. In spite of how bad Plummer was when he was here, he was more successful here then with the Cards as well.

ChairmanBron
03-14-2010, 10:21 PM
The "OL wasn't there," is the understatement of the year. ....

Yeah the so called "Big Red Line" was a joke.



.... In spite of how bad Plummer was when he was here, he was more successful here then with the Cards as well.

He was ruined before he got here with 4 different offensive coordinators (Dick Jamieson, Marc Trestman, Rich Olsen and Jerry Sullivan) and 4 different systems that was with Cardinals during his 6 year run. If he had the same system during his time with the Cardinals, he would of been a much better off.



.

UnderArmour
03-14-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm excited about Brady Quinn. The guy showed serious flashes in Cleveland despite not necessarily being given opportunities and not being around the best talent. I'm still scratching my head as to how his stock fell that low to where even QB hungry teams like the Bills and Rams wouldn't send a 4th for him. We got a steal from Cleveland, I'm REALLY hoping we can hold onto Marshall now.

Italianmobstr7
03-15-2010, 12:09 AM
According to Peter King on Twitter Josh Mcdaniels has called Orton and told him that he is still the starter. http://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing

I don't like that too much. I think it should be a competition, and I think by sticking Quinn in this year (with what looks like a decently easy schedule) he'd be able to get used to our players and lead us into the future..

Ravage!!!
03-15-2010, 12:20 AM
Doesn't mean there won't be a competition.... just because he says that now, doesnt' mean anything. He also said that he looked forward to Hillis being a Bronco for a long long time.

Broncolingus
03-15-2010, 12:48 AM
I like the idea of Quinny as a potential back up a helluva lot more than Chris Simms...

FanInAZ
03-15-2010, 12:48 AM
Doesn't mean there won't be a competition.... just because he says that now, doesnt' mean anything. He also said that he looked forward to Hillis being a Bronco for a long long time.

Lying is bad enough, but most people only lie if they think that they will not get caught. McD on the other hand says things that will prove to be lie without consideration to his reputation. I know that he's telling Orton what ever he thinks will sooth his feelings, but why should he believe a word the McD says at this point. His ability to manage the rumor mill to prevent it from disrupting his team is shot.

Tned
03-15-2010, 01:04 AM
Doesn't mean there won't be a competition.... just because he says that now, doesnt' mean anything. He also said that he looked forward to Hillis being a Bronco for a long long time.

And how much he looked forward to working with Cutler, very shortly before trying to acquire Cassel, and after that, how Cutler was his QB and at least insinuated that he wouldn't be trading him.

However, I expect HC's to do this. I used to go through this with Shanny, when people would rail about him being a liar.

It is not a HC's job to come clean and be 'honest' with media and fans, it's to win. They have to walk a tight rope of giving some information in the pressers for the reporters to pass on to fans to keep them informed and interested, but their main job is winning and preparing the team to win, so I never feel a coach has done wrong by saying, "I'm looking forward to Hillis being a big part of this offense" in January, and trading him in March. That's part of running a FB team.

broncophan
03-15-2010, 05:33 AM
Never liked Quinn, but he is now a Bronco so I shall root as hard as I possibly can for him. Simple as that for me.

Me too........living here in central Ohio.........he was all I heard about forever......(he played high school ball just outside of Columbus).....

And I hate to root for anyone from Notre Dame..............but as you said......he is now a Bronco......so now I wish him nothing but the best.

What a 2 faced piece of crap I am.....lol.....:D

EastCoastBronco
03-15-2010, 07:01 AM
No QB in our stable is going to do anything unless we get the damn O-Line fixed.

Period.

Nomad
03-15-2010, 07:04 AM
No QB in our stable is going to do anything unless we get the damn O-Line fixed.

Period.

Pretty much!

Apollo
03-15-2010, 07:24 AM
I'm fairly excited about this tbh. He's shown some flashes of being good, his problem is that he's missing some substance and finishing edge. Remember, Cleveland last year wasn't the exact place a Football player wanted to be.

EDIT: We gave up too much in the deal though.

Elevation inc
03-15-2010, 07:33 AM
i think people need to let this play out.....quinn has started very few games and never really had coaching or a shot in clevland....we literally gave up 2 late rd draft picks not even from this year and a hybrid FB for a potential franchise QB......this could be a very very good thing for denver in the long run.....

the good thing for quinn is its a system he knows, and he has a solid OL....a decent run game, some good WR weapons....and a good defense....he also has a servicable Qb in front of him so he gets to compete and learn under solid tutelage, without having the pressure of being the next peyton manning....

this is MCd's new QB project Guarenteed.....keep in mind he is better than simms so thats a plus, and he literally has to play 70% of the snaps before his money kicks in otherwise we get him as a solid back-up Qb for 700,000....

this was a savy move for a change....it makes orton aware that he cant get comfortable and has to keep working and improving, and it stablizes the Qb position a bit, instead of relying on a volatile chris simms and unproven rookie in case orton gets hurt....

Northman
03-15-2010, 08:25 AM
I think Quinn can do a much better job here than he did in Cleveland. Cleveland is a mess who traded away all of Quinn's weapons (2 of them: Winslow and Edwards). They had no running game to alleviate the pressure off of Quinn, and he always got yanked after one mistake. I'm listening to the live stream of Mile High Radio and the host made an interesting point that Mark Sanchez has started more games than Quinn. I'm willing to take a chance on Quinn and see what he can do in a more competent organization and an offense he is suited for. Plus, he has more to work with offensively. I'm not going to torch this move or curse at McDaniels until we all see what this move does.


Yea, im not sure how he will do but Cleveland is a bad place to be for almost any player nowdays. Even Arizona was in better shape while Jake was there than the Browns were with Quinn. This is one of those moments where i would almost like to keep Marshall just to see what Quinn could do with him.

SOCALORADO.
03-15-2010, 08:33 AM
i think people need to let this play out.....quinn has started very few games and never really had coaching or a shot in clevland....we literally gave up 2 late rd draft picks not even from this year and a hybrid FB for a potential franchise QB......this could be a very very good thing for denver in the long run.....

the good thing for quinn is its a system he knows, and he has a solid OL....a decent run game, some good WR weapons....and a good defense....he also has a servicable Qb in front of him so he gets to compete and learn under solid tutelage, without having the pressure of being the next peyton manning....

this is MCd's new QB project Guarenteed.....keep in mind he is better than simms so thats a plus, and he literally has to play 70% of the snaps before his money kicks in otherwise we get him as a solid back-up Qb for 700,000....

this was a savy move for a change....it makes orton aware that he cant get comfortable and has to keep working and improving, and it stablizes the Qb position a bit, instead of relying on a volatile chris simms and unproven rookie in case orton gets hurt....

Nailed it.
Brady has a much stronger arm than Plummer.
Brady just needs some work on his deep ball, but if DEN keeps Marshall....
Hopefully Simms is gettin a twitter right now that he was cut.

Medford Bronco
03-15-2010, 08:47 AM
No... reminds me of Seattle picking up Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle... that would be acceptable.

Does that mean we get to a Super Bowl with Quinn :whistle: :D

That would be nice

Medford Bronco
03-15-2010, 08:48 AM
Yea, im not sure how he will do but Cleveland is a bad place to be for almost any player nowdays. Even Arizona was in better shape while Jake was there than the Browns were with Quinn. This is one of those moments where i would almost like to keep Marshall just to see what Quinn could do with him.

good luck to Jake dellome in cleveland. He is in trouble and on the downside of his career

Lonestar
03-15-2010, 09:18 AM
At least Josh had the balls to TALK to Orton before the trade was made. So after a career year he did not have to hear it on the radio.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

East Coast Fan
03-15-2010, 10:28 AM
i think people need to let this play out.....quinn has started very few games and never really had coaching or a shot in clevland....we literally gave up 2 late rd draft picks not even from this year and a hybrid FB for a potential franchise QB......this could be a very very good thing for denver in the long run.....

the good thing for quinn is its a system he knows, and he has a solid OL....a decent run game, some good WR weapons....and a good defense....he also has a servicable Qb in front of him so he gets to compete and learn under solid tutelage, without having the pressure of being the next peyton manning....

this is MCd's new QB project Guarenteed.....keep in mind he is better than simms so thats a plus, and he literally has to play 70% of the snaps before his money kicks in otherwise we get him as a solid back-up Qb for 700,000....

this was a savy move for a change....it makes orton aware that he cant get comfortable and has to keep working and improving, and it stablizes the Qb position a bit, instead of relying on a volatile chris simms and unproven rookie in case orton gets hurt....

I agree; I like it that he's here. Like many have said, the kid just needs some coaching and experience and we may just be very pleasantly suprised how this turns out-maybe not immediately, but a little down the road.

Tned
03-15-2010, 11:14 AM
I agree; I like it that he's here. Like many have said, the kid just needs some coaching and experience and we may just be very pleasantly suprised how this turns out-maybe not immediately, but a little down the road.

:confused:

East Coast Fan
03-15-2010, 11:58 AM
:confused:


What part don't you understand? Do I think that he will be a great success right away for us-no. Do I think that he COULD eventually develop into a very good QB for us-yes. I doubt that he's gonna walk right in here and go like gangbusters, nor do I think that they'd expect it of him.

NightTrainLayne
03-15-2010, 12:01 PM
In answer to the original thread title, my answer is "no way!".

This isn't at all like when Plummer came here imo. When Plummer came we were adrift, and everyone knew that Plummer was an upgrade at the position, and would be the starter from day one (if nowhere near a great QB).

Quinn comes in with the possibility to push Orton and maybe take the starting job, but I don't think anyone right now sees Quinn as a "savior" in the way that Plummer was viewed by a lot of Bronco fans at that time (for better or worse).

G_Money
03-15-2010, 12:22 PM
Reminds me of when Cutler came in, actually.

We have a QB who is a "winner" even though he's not especially good at his job as an incumbent, and whose limitations look likely to cap the rewards we can get from him.

So we bring in a younger, brasher QB with a bigger arm who can stretch the field instead of just trying to play mistake-free, no-risk football.

It's far more like Cutler vs. Plummer for me than it is the FA acquisition of Plummer. Hopefully Brady's last coupla seasons are gonna take care of most of his growing pains and he can wrest the job from Orton soon. We're not getting any better with Orton, and Quinn isn't stupid - the playbook is managable for him. He learned Weiss's pretty damn fast, after all. There's no reason with a full set of offseason workouts, minicamps and training camp here to get the nuances down that he can't challenge for a starting job.

We'll see how McDaniels feels about that soon enough.

~G

Tned
03-15-2010, 12:25 PM
At least Josh had the balls to TALK to Orton before the trade was made. So after a career year he did not have to hear it on the radio.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

:confused:

Tned
03-15-2010, 12:26 PM
What part don't you understand? Do I think that he will be a great success right away for us-no. Do I think that he COULD eventually develop into a very good QB for us-yes. I doubt that he's gonna walk right in here and go like gangbusters, nor do I think that they'd expect it of him.

Sorry, I hit quote on the wrong post when I posted :confused:. Your's makes perfect sense.

I meant the :confused: for JR's post.

Tned
03-15-2010, 12:39 PM
Reminds me of when Cutler came in, actually.

We have a QB who is a "winner" even though he's not especially good at his job as an incumbent, and whose limitations look likely to cap the rewards we can get from him.

So we bring in a younger, brasher QB with a bigger arm who can stretch the field instead of just trying to play mistake-free, no-risk football.

It's far more like Cutler vs. Plummer for me than it is the FA acquisition of Plummer. Hopefully Brady's last coupla seasons are gonna take care of most of his growing pains and he can wrest the job from Orton soon. We're not getting any better with Orton, and Quinn isn't stupid - the playbook is managable for him. He learned Weiss's pretty damn fast, after all. There's no reason with a full set of offseason workouts, minicamps and training camp here to get the nuances down that he can't challenge for a starting job.

We'll see how McDaniels feels about that soon enough.

~G

I keep reading that Quinn doesn't have a big arm, and isn't a downfield thrower. However, I guy at work said he thought Quinn showed a good arm in college.

G_Money
03-15-2010, 12:52 PM
He has a strong arm, he just can't hit anyone on long bombs downfield. Jay wasn't the greatest at the fly pattern either.

The idea is to get a guy who can throw a 20 yard crossing route, which Orton is practically incapable of doing. I don't need the 50 yard accurate bomb, I need the 20 yard "hey, that guy's open and I can get it there" dart.

If Quinn can do that it'll open up the offense a bit, get some defenders out of the box, prevent the stack against the run, make the play-action worth a damn...

If not, we're basically screwed short of becoming the Jets and being able to cram the run down your throat even when you know it's coming and have 8-9 guys standing around in a 5 yard area to defend it.

~G

Elevation inc
03-15-2010, 12:57 PM
quinn lacks some deep throw accuracy much like cutler did...he doest have the arm of cutler but he can still zip it pretty good...should be interesting none the less....

DenBronx
03-15-2010, 01:07 PM
I think Quinn can do a much better job here than he did in Cleveland. Cleveland is a mess who traded away all of Quinn's weapons (2 of them: Winslow and Edwards). They had no running game to alleviate the pressure off of Quinn, and he always got yanked after one mistake. I'm listening to the live stream of Mile High Radio and the host made an interesting point that Mark Sanchez has started more games than Quinn. I'm willing to take a chance on Quinn and see what he can do in a more competent organization and an offense he is suited for. Plus, he has more to work with offensively. I'm not going to torch this move or curse at McDaniels until we all see what this move does.

all really good points. i think cleveland was destroying quinns career. good move by us and i want to see what this kid can do.

DenBronx
03-15-2010, 01:14 PM
I keep reading that Quinn doesn't have a big arm, and isn't a downfield thrower. However, I guy at work said he thought Quinn showed a good arm in college.

as a notre dame fan i can agree with him. quinn has a very strong arm. what was he supposed to do with k2, braylon gone and no running game? defenders dared him to throw it deep. his only option was really inside 20 or so yards.

its amazing that dereck anderson also sucked so bad. the browns were absolutely terrible on offense and they only had joe thomas that was worth a crap to protect him.

Tned
03-15-2010, 01:20 PM
He has a strong arm, he just can't hit anyone on long bombs downfield. Jay wasn't the greatest at the fly pattern either.

The idea is to get a guy who can throw a 20 yard crossing route, which Orton is practically incapable of doing. I don't need the 50 yard accurate bomb, I need the 20 yard "hey, that guy's open and I can get it there" dart.

If Quinn can do that it'll open up the offense a bit, get some defenders out of the box, prevent the stack against the run, make the play-action worth a damn...

If not, we're basically screwed short of becoming the Jets and being able to cram the run down your throat even when you know it's coming and have 8-9 guys standing around in a 5 yard area to defend it.

~G

Yea, this is what I was talking about at lunch. I don't care about the deep bomb, although hitting one everyone once in a while, keeps them honest, but I want him to be able to make the 15-30 yard throws.

One of the major problems I had with our offense last year (there were many), is that all these bubble screens and short dump offs, allowed the defense (front seven and secondary) to compress up to the LOS, which meant people like Royal were running short routes in heavy traffic, which is not where he is going to shine.

G_Money
03-15-2010, 01:50 PM
Yep. We couldn't break up the congestion around the LOS, which hurt the run game and the passing game, because all the passing lanes got choked off with defenders.

Orton cannot hit enough intermediate-to-long passes in game situations to keep them honest. If Brady can, then he can help us, otherwise our offensive potential will be artificially limited (ie, it's not a system problem as much as it is relying on a guy who can't run 100% of the system, or even enable the parts of the system he can run to function at peak levels).

~G

East Coast Fan
03-15-2010, 01:50 PM
Sorry, I hit quote on the wrong post when I posted :confused:. Your's makes perfect sense.

I meant the :confused: for JR's post.


No problem-I don't always make sense, anyway! :D

TXBRONC
03-16-2010, 01:33 PM
when we first got Plummer I thought he sucked but he really proved me wrong and was a decent QB that still had some brain farts, but overall did a pretty good job here.

Can Quinn do a good job here if he starts?

I hope so, I will be pulling for him. I root for any bronco no matter what when they are playing.

Remember if our defense can play better over 16 games then maybe
we can be better as a team.

Its not about offense totally or defense totally

any thoughts?

I don't see a lot of similarities. They both played for bad teams and both have reputation of not being very accurate passers. I think once you get past that it's hard to compare them because the big gap in experience.

TXBRONC
03-16-2010, 01:40 PM
I keep reading that Quinn doesn't have a big arm, and isn't a downfield thrower. However, I guy at work said he thought Quinn showed a good arm in college.

I haven't see a lot of him but I think he has enough arm strength. If I remember correctly his biggest problem is with his accuracy.

sanluis
03-17-2010, 01:06 PM
when we first got Plummer I thought he sucked but he really proved me wrong and was a decent QB that still had some brain farts, but overall did a pretty good job here.

Can Quinn do a good job here if he starts?

I hope so, I will be pulling for him. I root for any bronco no matter what when they are playing.

Remember if our defense can play better over 16 games then maybe
we can be better as a team.

Its not about offense totally or defense totally

any thoughts?

No way Medford. Plummer was a proven starter in AZ and had made the playoffs. What in the flip has Brady Quin Done?? He is wayyyyyy over rated and will be your back up next year. Orton will win the starting job again hands down. It wont even be close. :lol:

Quin may turn out to be a long term project and fair better in Denver than in Cleveland. He will do OK with your dink and dunk offense. Still Orton has a big head start and is way more experienced. So was Plummer ...

SOCALORADO.
03-17-2010, 01:11 PM
No way Medford. Plummer was a proven starter in AZ and had made the playoffs. What in the flip has Brady Quin Done?? He is wayyyyyy over rated and will be your back up next year. Orton will win the starting job again hands down. It wont even be close. :lol:

Quin may turn out to be a long term project and fair better in Denver than in Cleveland. He will do OK with your dink and dunk offense. Still Orton has a big head start and is way more experienced. So was Plummer ...

Quinn has a much stronger arm than Orton.
Hes had numerous injuries because of the crap hes been surounded by.
(foot,broken finger)
He'll start week 1. He actually has just as much of a leg up on Orton when it comes to the playbook too, running Weis' system that he taught MCD in NE.
He'll be fine.

sanluis
03-17-2010, 01:23 PM
Quinn has a much stronger arm than Orton.
Hes had numerous injuries because of the crap hes been surounded by.
(foot,broken finger)
He'll start week 1. He actually has just as much of a leg up on Orton when it comes to the playbook too, running Weis' system that he taught MCD in NE.
He'll be fine.

You really think he is better than Orton? I have not seen it on the field. MCD runs his own stuff and even if it is similar to college Mr Quinn has been out of school a bit. Orton knows the plays flat out and has a year under his belt with this system winning games at the NFL level. Orton had his injuries last year as well and looked much better than Quinn IMO. Now, if you are a big Notre Dame fan I understand your lean toward Quinn. I just don't agree with ya. :D

SOCALORADO.
03-17-2010, 01:51 PM
You really think he is better than Orton? I have not seen it on the field. MCD runs his own stuff and even if it is similar to college Mr Quinn has been out of school a bit. Orton knows the plays flat out and has a year under his belt with this system winning games at the NFL level. Orton had his injuries last year as well and looked much better than Quinn IMO. Now, if you are a big Notre Dame fan I understand your lean toward Quinn. I just don't agree with ya. :D

Rex Grossman beat out Orton.

And i HATE ND with a passion none here would EVER understand.
But it doesnt cloud my opinion of a guy who has had 3 different coaches in 3 years, been chased around the field by opposing defenders relentlessly, never getting a second to really get comfortable and be allowed to make a play, so much so that hes already had a broken finger and a lis franc injury to his foot.
CLE sucks balls, man. Everytime either Quinn or Anderson made one mistake, they were immediately benched, and the other guy would go in.
Thats no way to build a guys confidence.
Holmgren realized this, and the mess Fatgini had made on his own.
Holmgren also is installing his west coast offense, and at this point with the relationship between HC Eric Cartman and Quinn, it just was better to part ways, get a veteran, and start over completely.
Quinn will be fine. Hes more than capable to run MCDs offense just like Cassell did.

Ravage!!!
03-17-2010, 01:58 PM
You really think he is better than Orton? I have not seen it on the field. MCD runs his own stuff and even if it is similar to college Mr Quinn has been out of school a bit. Orton knows the plays flat out and has a year under his belt with this system winning games at the NFL level. Orton had his injuries last year as well and looked much better than Quinn IMO. Now, if you are a big Notre Dame fan I understand your lean toward Quinn. I just don't agree with ya. :D

Its not really needing to 'know the plays.' Its just needing to understand the terminology. Thats the hardest part for a QB to change teams and change systems, is learning the terminology. Once you have that down, you can understand any play thrown at you, because you know exactly what route, to what recievers, and what coverages are being called.

That is where Quinn is going to have the advantage over Orton in the first year. Orton was spending time learning, Quinn will simply have to review. Thats a weeks worth of book study.

From that point forward, it comes down to the play on the field. Both now have experience reading defenses, both know the speed of the game, both know what being a starter is all about.

Either way.... both are mediocre QBs. Its not exactly a shoot-out at the OK Coral.

Traveler
03-17-2010, 02:01 PM
Yea, this is what I was talking about at lunch. I don't care about the deep bomb, although hitting one everyone once in a while, keeps them honest, but I want him to be able to make the 15-30 yard throws.

One of the major problems I had with our offense last year (there were many), is that all these bubble screens and short dump offs, allowed the defense (front seven and secondary) to compress up to the LOS, which meant people like Royal were running short routes in heavy traffic, which is not where he is going to shine.

Even if he did have an accurate deep ball, it's no good to us until we get a WR that threatens our opponent with his deep speed.

While I despised our former QB, teams did have to play us more honestly. Watching the same bubble screens, dump offs ,and quick slants was so frustrating. Not sure I can put up with it for too long this coming season.

That's why I'm hoping BQ can beat Orton out sometime during the season. At least he can move around in the pocket and stretch out the play for his receivers.

TXBRONC
03-17-2010, 06:54 PM
Even if he did have an accurate deep ball, it's no good to us until we get a WR that threatens our opponent with his deep speed.

While I despised our former QB, teams did have to play us more honestly. Watching the same bubble screens, dump offs ,and quick slants was so frustrating. Not sure I can put up with it for too long this coming season.

That's why I'm hoping BQ can beat Orton out sometime during the season. At least he can move around in the pocket and stretch out the play for his receivers.

I think Marshall and Royal both have good enough speed to get deep. It's about creating separation. Ed McCaffery could get deep on corners that were faster than him.

Kaylore
03-17-2010, 10:40 PM
I'm looking at Quinn as nothing more than an upgrade over Simms and all of you should as well until he shows he can do more than he has in his career. I can pretty much promise he won't be starting opening day. He's mentally soft and kind of a weiner. However he knows the system, is young and athletic, and again, is a legit backup over Orton. I'm not in love with Orton but he's better than Quinn and has a year in this system that Quinn does not. Mangini's version is different in a lot of ways.

With Plummer I was excited because I couldn't stand Griese and Plummer was a relatively decent QB before he came here. Quinn hasn't do anything but disappoint since his arrival and so I will expect an upgrade over Simms and count anything more than that as gravy.

Ziggy
03-17-2010, 11:44 PM
For those who are wondering about Quinn's arm strength, it's not Cutleresque, but it's decent. Here's a throw that's about 60 yards in the air to an open receiver. I don't know if Quinn threw it as hard as he could, or was just getting it to the guy that was wide open. There's some air under it, but when a receiver has no defender around him, Qb's tend to play it safe.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146c026/Brady-Quinn-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Lions-2009

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
03-18-2010, 01:53 AM
Quinn doesn't have that much throwing power, but he's about 500x stronger physically than cutler or other strong armed guys. probably poor mechanics or something

Ziggy
03-18-2010, 02:28 AM
Quinn doesn't have that much throwing power, but he's about 500x stronger physically than cutler or other strong armed guys. probably poor mechanics or something

Back in the day, the NFL used to have a QB skills competition. Elway, Marino, and the rest of the star QB's used to compete. One of the events was the strongest arm competition. They would take a step or two and throw it as far as they could. Randall Cunningham won it every year that he entered. He was as skinny as a rail and threw it farther than Elway and the rest of them. Muscle doesn't always equate to a stronger arm. Elway's mechanics were also nearly flawless. Quinn had exactly 1 more rep at the bench press than Cutler did at the combine. Thier strength is very similar.

Is your statement a result of pure detestment for Quinn, or was it just an overexaggeration? I'm curious. It seems like some Bronco fans have to either love or hate certain players. That's too bad. I want to see them both compete, and become very good to great NFL starters. If either one does, the Broncos become a better team, and have a legitimate shot to win it all again. I can't wait for camp and preseason to begin. I'll be rooting for all of the Broncos to succeed.

SOCALORADO.
03-18-2010, 08:19 AM
Qwinn will start week 1.

Shazam!
03-18-2010, 08:29 AM
For those who are wondering about Quinn's arm strength, it's not Elwayesque, but it's decent.

Edited for accuracy.

Cutler didnt even come close to John Elway, who had a howitzer.

In fact, Id rather have less comparisons to Captain Interception from Denver starting QBs at this point.

Also, there is no gauge for arm strength either, but from everything I saw and read on him it isnt an issue, physically he can make the throws.


Qwinn will start week 1.

That's quite a statement.

SOCALORADO.
03-18-2010, 08:42 AM
Edited for accuracy.

Cutler didnt even come close to John Elway, who had a howitzer.

In fact, Id rather have less comparisons to Captain Interception from Denver starting QBs at this point.

Also, there is no gauge for arm strength either, but from everything I saw and read on him it isnt an issue, physically he can make the throws.



That's quite a statement.

Again, Rex Grossman beat out Orton.
Your talking about arm strenth, Orton cannot throw accurately after 20 yards. Just cant do it. I like Orton, i like his attitiude and his fire, but hes a career back up. And if it wasnt for our constantly pouting, immature, idiot of a very talented WR, who went up and made circus play after circus play on crappy thrown balls, Orton would have never put up those numbers.
Qwinn can make all the throws, and given time by his O-Line, he can stretch the field and keep teams honest.
Qwinn also knows McDaniels spread like the back of his hand.
Qwinn to me, is basically a Cassell clone. Strong arm, cerebral, system QB. And because of that, he will already be a leg up on Orton.

claymore
03-18-2010, 08:50 AM
Edited for accuracy.

Cutler didnt even come close to John Elway, who had a howitzer.

In fact, Id rather have less comparisons to Captain Interception from Denver starting QBs at this point.

Also, there is no gauge for arm strength either, but from everything I saw and read on him it isnt an issue, physically he can make the throws.



That's quite a statement.
If you look at both Elway's and Cutlers career avg's they are almost Identical. If you look at them in thier first few years Culter is way ahead of ELway developmentaly.

So anytime you call Cutler Cpt Interception or whatever, remember Elway was actually worse.

So Elway is Cpt Int. And Cutler is Lt Int. Plummer was so much worse than both that he can be considered Gen Int.

SOCALORADO.
03-18-2010, 09:07 AM
If you look at both Elway's and Cutlers career avg's they are almost Identical. If you look at them in thier first few years Culter is way ahead of ELway developmentaly.

So anytime you call Cutler Cpt Interception or whatever, remember Elway was actually worse.

So Elway is Cpt Int. And Cutler is Lt Int. Plummer was so much worse than both that he can be considered Gen Int.

Cutler has a cannon. Theres no disputing it. That draft i remember being like one of 6 posters who were in love with him, and i was jumping up and down screaming when DEN moved up and he was drafted. Now in hindsight, that isnt a very fond memory anymore because of both DENs mishandling of him, and his whiny, little b!tch attitude, but he is still one of the most physically gifted QBs to come out in a while. Flacco and Ryan are also really gifted players as well.
Some kids just have that ability to rifle a football 60 yards on a frozen rope.

Elway not only could throw lasers 80 yards, but he developed the ability to do it accurately, all the while still being able to also throw a touch pass 40 yards to a diving Shannon Sharpe in the back of the end zone late in the 4th, in camero head, in front of a hostile crowd.
Thats why Elway is the greatest.
He did it all when you NEEDED him to do it.

Shazam!
03-18-2010, 09:10 AM
Clay, you keep telling yourself Cutler was better than Elway. I dont care what stats you throw out there. Youre just flatout wrong. He was 10x the player, the leader, the man than Cutler will ever be if he lived to be 100.

roomemp
03-18-2010, 09:24 AM
If you look at both Elway's and Cutlers career avg's they are almost Identical. If you look at them in thier first few years Culter is way ahead of ELway developmentaly.

So anytime you call Cutler Cpt Interception or whatever, remember Elway was actually worse.

So Elway is Cpt Int. And Cutler is Lt Int. Plummer was so much worse than both that he can be considered Gen Int.

Thats why the QB position can not be judged on stats alone. Stats are misleading sometimes.

claymore
03-18-2010, 09:40 AM
Cutler has a cannon. Theres no disputing it. That draft i remember being like one of 6 posters who were in love with him, and i was jumping up and down screaming when DEN moved up and he was drafted. Now in hindsight, that isnt a very fond memory anymore because of both DENs mishandling of him, and his whiny, little b!tch attitude, but he is still one of the most physically gifted QBs to come out in a while. Flacco and Ryan are also really gifted players as well.
Some kids just have that ability to rifle a football 60 yards on a frozen rope.

Elway not only could throw lasers 80 yards, but he developed the ability to do it accurately, all the while still being able to also throw a touch pass 40 yards to a diving Shannon Sharpe in the back of the end zone late in the 4th, in camero head, in front of a hostile crowd.
Thats why Elway is the greatest.
He did it all when you NEEDED him to do it.I cant dispute arm strength. As far as I know there is no real information for any fan to argue that. Its all opinions and memories.


Clay, you keep telling yourself Cutler was better than Elway. I dont care what stats you throw out there. Youre just flatout wrong. He was 10x the player, the leader, the man than Cutler will ever be if he lived to be 100.
Im not saying Cutler was better than Elway. Im saying Elway turned over the ball as much as Cutler. Elway actually turned the ball over alot more at equal stages in their career. But I left that part out.


Thats why the QB position can not be judged on stats alone. Stats are misleading sometimes.

A Qb can and is judged on Stats. Contracts are based off of it, fans refrence it, and HOF careers are defined by it. Some just dont like stats when they dont fit their argument.

Ravage!!!
03-18-2010, 10:22 AM
Elway not only could throw lasers 80 yards, but he developed the ability to do it accurately, all the while still being able to also throw a touch pass 40 yards to a diving Shannon Sharpe in the back of the end zone late in the 4th, in camero head, in front of a hostile crowd.
Thats why Elway is the greatest.
He did it all when you NEEDED him to do it.

But not early in his career. I remember years of watching him laser passes through receivers at short distances, throwing the ball to hard.

Ravage!!!
03-18-2010, 10:24 AM
Qwinn to me, is basically a Cassell clone.

Ugh.... that doesn't exactly rise my shorts :tsk:

GEM
03-18-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm looking at Quinn as nothing more than an upgrade over Simms and all of you should as well until he shows he can do more than he has in his career. I can pretty much promise he won't be starting opening day. He's mentally soft and kind of a weiner. However he knows the system, is young and athletic, and again, is a legit backup over Orton. I'm not in love with Orton but he's better than Quinn and has a year in this system that Quinn does not. Mangini's version is different in a lot of ways.

With Plummer I was excited because I couldn't stand Griese and Plummer was a relatively decent QB before he came here. Quinn hasn't do anything but disappoint since his arrival and so I will expect an upgrade over Simms and count anything more than that as gravy.

Weiner or whiner? :laugh: Both fit?

GEM
03-18-2010, 10:32 AM
I cant dispute arm strength. As far as I know there is no real information for any fan to argue that. Its all opinions and memories.


Im not saying Cutler was better than Elway. Im saying Elway turned over the ball as much as Cutler. Elway actually turned the ball over alot more at equal stages in their career. But I left that part out.



A Qb can and is judged on Stats. Contracts are based off of it, fans refrence it, and HOF careers are defined by it. Some just dont like stats when they dont fit their argument.


Clay,

Did you forget the post you made elsewhere that said.....


Cutler>>>>>Elway.


Or did Mo just make that up? :D