Would we have won today if Plummer was still our QB?

[lex]

Just curious.

[Slick]

Why, Lex.......Why?

Let it go man

[lex]

Why, Lex.......Why?

Let it go man

Why? Because its a fair question.

[BroncoWave]

Nah, he'd have found a way to mess it up on that last drive.

[Kapaibro]

This question is only valid if we had lost.

We did win. Without Jake. The question is without merit.

[BigBroncLove]

This question is only valid if we had lost.

We did win. Without Jake. The question is without merit.

Agreed. I never have to much interest in "what if" questions.... especially ones over a subject as volatile as the QB controversy from last year...

[*Atwater*]

Oh good not another Jake Plummer thread. :tsk: :banghead:

[Skinny]

Did BM go back to the blue back gound??

Where am i! :confused:

[lex]

This question is only valid if we had lost.

We did win. Without Jake. The question is without merit.

Why? That doesnt make a lot of sense. The outcome completely validates the question. In fact, the outcome is a vital part of the question.

[Kapaibro]

Why? That doesnt make a lot of sense. The outcome completely validates the question. In fact, the outcome is a vital part of the question.

WE WON!!!!!!!!!

You ask questions like that when we LOSE!!!!!!!

Make enough sense for ya? :rolleyes:

[lex]

Oh good not another Jake Plummer thread. :tsk: :banghead:


Did BM go back to the blue back gound??

Where am i! :confused:

Youre complaints would be valid if the thread wasnt clearly labeled. Since it is, feel free to ignore it. Its a very valid question since going to Cutler was a huge story for us last year and its fair to ask periodically if the move is paying dividends and to what degree.

[Simple Jaded]

Let it go! :rolleyes:

[BroncoAV06]

This question is totally about bashing Jake. Why not ask if we would of won with Griese or Tom Maddux? Whats the difference?

On another note, Broncos vs Bills game will be the first NFL Replay of the season tomorrow at 5:30 EST.

[lex]

WE WON!!!!!!!!!

You ask questions like that when we LOSE!!!!!!!

Make enough sense for ya? :rolleyes:

No, it still makes no sense whatsoever. If we would have lost, the thread would have had to have been something like, "is Jake and Jay the same" but the question speaks to differences in the two. Not seeing how it makes sense to ask this after a loss.

[Kapaibro]

Youre complaints would be valid if the thread wasnt clearly labeled. Since it is, feel free to ignore it. Its a very valid question since going to Cutler was a huge story for us last year and its fair to ask periodically if the move is paying dividends and to what degree.

WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that dividend enough for you?????????

Seriously what do you want people to say?


Come back Jake? :rolleyes:

[lex]

This question is totally about bashing Jake. Why not ask if we would of won with Griese or Tom Maddux? Whats the difference?

Cutler is replacing Plummer and this was a huge event for us last year. Cutler didnt replace Griese or Maddux. Thats why. And it doesnt have to be about bashing Plummer unless you are conflicted.

[Kapaibro]

No, it still makes no sense whatsoever. If we would have lost, the thread would have had to have been something like, "is Jake and Jay the same" but the question speaks to differences in the two. Not seeing how it makes sense to ask this after a loss.

After a loss, you ask it, because we changed QB's, and maybe the old one would have won us the game.

However, we changed QB's and won! The move paid off!

[lex]

WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that dividend enough for you?????????

Seriously what do you want people to say?


Come back Jake? :rolleyes:

I dont care what people say. Theres not a script. And regarding the dividend question, you can find my answer by clicking on the thread results.

[Kapaibro]

You have 75 views, and only 8 votes.

The 6 who voted no are hardly a fair representation.

You do realise that the majority have come in, said WT*? and gone back out.

[sneakers]

What an evil question!

[lex]

You have 75 views, and only 8 votes.

The 6 who voted no are hardly a fair representation.

You do realise that the majority have come in, said WT*? and gone back out.

So? Again, there is no script and people can ignore the thread if they are tired of the subject. If they are tired of the subject, you have to wonder why they view to begin with. In any case, thats not really my concern. The thread expires in 7 days. We'll see how it plays out. I like you you come to conclusions when the thread is minuteds old...thats about like saying 6 votes is not a fair representation...oh but wait, no one was saying 6 votes is a fair representation.

And btw, you could post the poll you described above but it would be no different than this one...your just flipping the question based on circumstance. It doesnt really make sense to object to this question but advocate the one you suggested since theyre essentially the same thing.

[Simple Jaded]

Youre complaints would be valid if the thread wasnt clearly labeled. Since it is, feel free to ignore it. Its a very valid question since going to Cutler was a huge story for us last year and its fair to ask periodically if the move is paying dividends and to what degree.




Well, it's not really a valid question, it's an valid question for 06 with an irrelevant answer for 07, since Plummer is no longer playing.

And my answer is "Who gives a damn?"......

[Slick]

People really don't want to talk about Plummer....he's not a Bronco.

He's gone.

Outtro.

If we want to respond to your thread with out voting, that's our right too.

You put it out there.

What did you expect?

[lex]

Well, it's not really a valid question, it's an valid question for 06 with an irrelevant answer for 07, since Plummer is no longer playing.

And my answer is "Who gives a damn?"......


Considering, the point of the move was to pay future dividends, Id say its very valid. If Cutler didnt play as much as he did last year, who knows if we win today. At the same time, some might still think we would have done just as well with Plummer.

[lex]

People really don't want to talk about Plummer....he's not a Bronco.

He's gone.

Outtro.

If we want to respond to your thread with out voting, that's our right too.

You put it out there.

What did you expect?

People can respond to the thread without voting and I can also point out how ridiculous the boohooing is since, again, the thread is clearly labeled. We can go back and forth on that all day.

[Rick]

We won a hell of a lot of games with Plummer at QB so it is hard to say if this is one we would have lost or won...

But we did win with our current team, current QB. Jake is enjoying retirement.

I wonder if we would have won with Elway, or Griese while we are at it thinking about the past.

[lex]

We won a hell of a lot of games with Plummer at QB so it is hard to say if this is one we would have lost or won...

But we did win with our current team, current QB. Jake is enjoying retirement.

I wonder if we would have won with Elway, or Griese while we are at it thinking about the past.

I say yes on Elway but no on Griese. And you make a fair point at the outset. Maybe we would have won with Jake but since Jay made a lot of throws from the pocket its a question?

[broncosinindy]

Cutler shows better passing skills and we needed that today. i highly doubt we would have won with out cutler

[Crush05]

LEX this is old!!!!!!!:closed_2:

[SR]

Half of the completions Cutler made today Plummer would never even think about trying. So, to put it simple, no, we would not have won with Plummer.

[NameUsedBefore]

I think the outcome would've been similar. That was a kind of game I can see Plummer winning.

[DenBronx]

i said no but just out of spite. we probably would have won though, mainly because the offense has got a face lift since he has left.

yeah its an irrelevant question but dont be so hard on the guy people....relax. were supposed to be enjoying the win today.

[Lonestar]

I have not gotten to see the last part of the game.

While Jay has an arm it got him into trouble on a few occasions today. I suspect he will learn from that. He made some throws that Jake probably could not have made.

Jake on the other hand was a pretty good comeback QB. Given the same players I suspect the outcome would have been about the same. Last year was an aberration..

Lets hope that every one learned from todays game and will prosper from it.

I can revise my guesstimate to 9-7. As I thought they would lose this one and almost did had it not been for BUF missing on 2 gimme field goals and Jason coming though in the clutch.


Like I said I have not watched the last quarter but if we out gained them almost 2 to 1 in yards at the start of the fourth Qtr how did we not win going away?

IN fact I'll go watch it now.

[Broncosfreak_56]

I dont think this is a fair question, seeing as he doesnt play for us anymore.





but I did vote for no :P

[MasterShake]

Come on, you know what you really wanted to ask is HOW we would have won today if Plummer was our QB. I think his ill advised throws would have had a little more flair than Cutlers. You know, a couple left handed throws here, a nice little flip over the center there. In all seriousness though the way Henry played, I could have seen Jake putting up some big passes on bootlegs which even the critics must admit he was great at. And now a pink dancing elephant just because I can.:elefant:

[lex]

i said no but just out of spite. we probably would have won though, mainly because the offense has got a face lift since he has left.

yeah its an irrelevant question but dont be so hard on the guy people....relax. were supposed to be enjoying the win today.

Well since the move was made with the idea of paying future dividends in mind, its a fair question to ask if its paying dividends already. Its completely relevant.

[omac]

Come on, you know what you really wanted to ask is HOW we would have won today if Plummer was our QB. I think his ill advised throws would have had a little more flair than Cutlers. You know, a couple left handed throws here, a nice little flip over the center there. In all seriousness though the way Henry played, I could have seen Jake putting up some big passes on bootlegs which even the critics must admit he was great at. And now a pink dancing elephant just because I can.:elefant:

:laugh: Hillarious, man! The elephant at the end was a nice touch.

I was about to vote, but I decided not to, as a lot of Bronco fans invested heavily emotionaly in Plummer, as a lot do now with Cutler. Though the question is objective (how would each QB have handled the situation), some people can't help but take it personally.

Jay made some boneheaded plays .... the INT from the extremely low snap at shotgun (and not the first extremely low snap at that; strange) ... the dangerous later. These were sets where he didn't have time, and still tried to make plays when he could've taken safe losses instead.

Aside from those, I did like the poise in the pocket for the most part. The 2 scrambles where he broke tackles that should have been sacks to give himself more time, and the one where he was able to make a one handed forward pitch to nobody to avoid the sack as he was getting tackled. Those were pretty heady. :beer:

Marshawn Lynch looked great. :cool:

[broncosfanscott]

I think the question is mute since he isn't playing anymore.

Anyways, we won the game and I don't deal with "What ifs."

So, I obviously voted no.

[Retired_Member_001]

No.

He would have thrown 3 INT's and would have given away 2 fumbles. After each turnover he would come off the field smiling and then he would take out a AK47 and shoot every Bronco fan that's says he didn't have an amazing perfect game.

Then all the Jake fans would come along and say " Jake is so classy, it's not his fault not everyone loves him just because he was terrible."

[arapaho2]

I have not gotten to see the last part of the game.

While Jay has an arm it got him into trouble on a few occasions today. I suspect he will learn from that. He made some throws that Jake probably could not have made.

Jake on the other hand was a pretty good comeback QB. Given the same players I suspect the outcome would have been about the same. Last year was an aberration..

Lets hope that every one learned from todays game and will prosper from it.

I can revise my guesstimate to 9-7. As I thought they would lose this one and almost did had it not been for BUF missing on 2 gimme field goals and Jason coming though in the clutch.


Like I said I have not watched the last quarter but if we out gained them almost 2 to 1 in yards at the start of the fourth Qtr how did we not win going away?

IN fact I'll go watch it now.


are you saying we would have lost if buffalo didnt miss two easy fgs? i seem to recall them not being so easy, as i also recall elam missing two himself

[omac]

are you saying we would have lost if buffalo didnt miss two easy fgs? i seem to recall them not being so easy, as i also recall elam missing two himself

Yeah, I agree with your thinking.

Truth is, their scores came from our mistakes. Though they finally got their run game going under Marshawn, their passing game was terrible. And our defense was able to make key stops. Their 2 scores came from poor coverage by the punting team, and poor tackling from the defense when we were in good possition to get them into 4th down territory ... instead of preventing a first down, we let them practically jog into our goal line.

Apart from that, we gave them the ball with an interception initiated by a low shotgun snap at around the 20, I think ... easily field goal range. Then at another time, we were at arnd field goad range at 2nd down, but we lost yardage and were forced to kick.

We kept them in the game. They weren't the better team by any stretch. Both teams just kept making mistakes, but they didn't have the yardage to show for it.

[Lonestar]

are you saying we would have lost if buffalo didnt miss two easy fgs? i seem to recall them not being so easy, as i also recall elam missing two himself


I had not seen the FG but good teams do not win the way they did. Ultra last second FG.

I finished watching the game last night and came away with the feeling that had it not been for real heady play by the #2 RB Young this game would have been over on that bone headed toss.

While I like seeing the I'm gonna make this pass attitude he better dial it back abit, cause he got really lucky a couple of times yesterday.
There were a half a dozen plays that Jake would have been crucified on had he tried them.

Let hope he learns from them and does not repeat them.

[Lonestar]

Yeah, I agree with your thinking.

Truth is, their scores came from our mistakes. Though they finally got their run game going under Marshawn, their passing game was terrible. And our defense was able to make key stops. Their 2 scores came from poor coverage by the punting team, and poor tackling from the defense when we were in good possition to get them into 4th down territory ... instead of preventing a first down, we let them practically jog into our goal line.

Apart from that, we gave them the ball with an interception initiated by a low shotgun snap at around the 20, I think ... easily field goal range. Then at another time, we were at arnd field goad range at 2nd down, but we lost yardage and were forced to kick.

We kept them in the game. They weren't the better team by any stretch. Both teams just kept making mistakes, but they didn't have the yardage to show for it.

Just remember that Jay had the option of not trying to force th throw. How many times did you hear the announcers say he threw off his back foot or the one time he threw it across his body.

This kid has a lot of learning to do to cut down on possible REALLY BAD circumstances. I hope it is sooner rather than later.

[topscribe]

Just remember that Jay had the option of not trying to force th throw. How many times did you hear the announcers say he threw off his back foot or the one time he threw it across his body.

This kid has a lot of learning to do to cut down on possible REALLY BAD circumstances. I hope it is sooner rather than later.
I saw little wrong with either methods. He threw across his body because the
receiver was wide open and because he CAN do it.

Elway did that often, because he could. I remember an interview with the
Raiders' HOF cornerback Mike Haynes when he was playing, as a contemporary
to Elway. Haynes commented about those cross-body throws to the other
side of the field, saying that he knew he had an interception when Elway
threw it. Problem is, Haynes went on, by the time he got there, Elway's
ball was already by him, in the hands of the receiver. Cutler has that same
kind of arm strength.

You do not want the normal quarterback throwing off his back foot or
across his body. But Cutler is not your normal quarterback. I see his doing
that for the rest of his career, and forging his own way into the HOF by it.

IMHO.

-----

[topscribe]

Yes Jake would have thrown 7 Touchdowns and you guys would have won 90-0 with your defense returing 2 picks for Touchdowns. And Travis Henry fresh off paying child support for his 9 children has 400 rusihng yards and 3 touchdowns. Then Ice man Elam kicks 2 field goals in a a chicken outfit and lays a egg as he walks off the field.
I know you were just making a funny, but you had best use some smilies to
avoid being flamed. ;)

-----

[SM19]

Yes, Plummer could have won this game.

[Tned]

Watching the game today (I watched it on Sunday on Sopcast at a hotel), I am not sure about my vote anymore. I voted yes, but it's hard to say. On the one hand Cutler made some mistakes that killed drives and resulted in field goal tries, on the other hand he made some very good plays both in the final drive (the two fouth down conversions for instance) and leading up to it.

So, in the end, who really knows.

[topscribe]

Watching the game today (I watched it on Sunday on Sopcast at a hotel), I am not sure about my vote anymore. I voted yes, but it's hard to say. On the one hand Cutler made some mistakes that killed drives and resulted in field goal tries, on the other hand he made some very good plays both in the final drive (the two fouth down conversions for instance) and leading up to it.

So, in the end, who really knows.
Well, Jake would have done some things differently . . . he would have had to!
Neither Jake nor all but one or two QBs could have thrown across his body,
across the field, or thrown off his back foot the way Cutler did and still put
the mustard on it that he did. In fact, the last QB I saw do either effectively,
for any team, was John Elway himself. I think that is where the Elway
comparisons arose after the game.

I mean, when Cutler ran one way and passed across his body in the other
direction almost without turning around, my heart hit my throat. But if that
were any more accurate, a micrometer would have been needed to gauge
how far off it would have been. Then later, he is back-pedaling to avoid a
fierce rush, and just unleashes one while still running backwards. Between
the numbers!

As long as this guy is throwing passes like that, I don't care if he's standing
on one hand while doing it.

No, Jake could not have done it the way Cutler did. But Jake had his bootleg,
etc., his own weapons. And he has a pretty good come-from-behind record
of his own.

But I don't see anybody out there who can do all the things Cutler can.

-----

[DenBronx]

Well since the move was made with the idea of paying future dividends in mind, its a fair question to ask if its paying dividends already. Its completely relevant.

i thought it was an irrelevant question because plummer was traded, retired and no longer on this team. so yeah pretty much not relevant at this point.

[Tned]

Well, Jake would have done some things differently . . . he would have had to!
Neither Jake nor all but one or two QBs could have thrown across his body,
across the field, or thrown off his back foot the way Cutler did and still put
the mustard on it that he did. In fact, the last QB I saw do either effectively,
for any team, was John Elway himself. I think that is where the Elway
comparisons arose after the game.

I mean, when Cutler ran one way and passed across his body in the other
direction almost without turning around, my heart hit my throat. But if that
were any more accurate, a micrometer would have been needed to gauge
how far off it would have been. Then later, he is back-pedaling to avoid a
fierce rush, and just unleashes one while still running backwards. Between
the numbers!

As long as this guy is throwing passes like that, I don't care if he's standing
on one hand while doing it.

No, Jake could not have done it the way Cutler did. But Jake had his bootleg,
etc., his own weapons. And he has a pretty good come-from-behind record
of his own.

But I don't see anybody out there who can do all the things Cutler can.

-----

I agree. That's why I say we might have won with Jake, but it would have had to have been differently. Since the Elway comparison's are out there, let's not forget that John made his share of risky throws that would up as big INTs. Maybe not a lateral over the RBs head, but he attempted plenty of high risk across the field throws that were picked, but they were more than offset by all the other ones that weren't, which were followed by an announcer saying, "he's the only guy in the league that could make that play..."

That's why I saw enough good from that game to think that offense will gel even faster than I had originally hoped.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

If you want my real answer, it's going to come with some "rudeness" with it.

Jay Cutler was our QB, and he was part of a team that overcame the odds and helped us with the game.

Football is a team game. The team together, from the coaches on down helped us win yesterday. A little luck was involved too. Plummer isn't even on the Denver Broncos anymore, so who really cares? All that matters is that we won yesterday. A win is a win is a win. Let's drop him (Jake) as a subject already. Plummer did some great things in Denver, and made some mistakes. Leave it at that. There's absolutely no reason that he's the topic for discussion anymore.

[Crush05]

If you want my real answer, it's going to come with some "rudeness" with it.

Jay Cutler was our QB, and he was part of a team that overcame the odds and helped us with the game.

Football is a team game. The team together, from the coaches on down helped us win yesterday. A little luck was involved too. Plummer isn't even on the Denver Broncos anymore, so who really cares? All that matters is that we won yesterday. A win is a win is a win. Let's drop him (Jake) as a subject already. Plummer did some great things in Denver, and made some mistakes. Leave it at that. There's absolutely no reason that he's the topic for discussion anymore.

:clap2::congrats: Thank you!!!! Glad to see someone else feel the same way I do!!!!:salute:

[Lonestar]

I saw little wrong with either methods. He threw across his body because the
receiver was wide open and because he CAN do it.

Elway did that often, because he could. I remember an interview with the
Raiders' HOF cornerback Mike Haynes when he was playing, as a contemporary
to Elway. Haynes commented about those cross-body throws to the other
side of the field, saying that he knew he had an interception when Elway
threw it. Problem is, Haynes went on, by the time he got there, Elway's
ball was already by him, in the hands of the receiver. Cutler has that same
kind of arm strength.

You do not want the normal quarterback throwing off his back foot or
across his body. But Cutler is not your normal quarterback. I see his doing
that for the rest of his career, and forging his own way into the HOF by it.

IMHO.

-----


:listen: I think HOF SPEAK is way premature as we speak.

We are not even sure he will have as good a career as an average QB. Concussions alone could end his career before it gets started.

Does he have arm strength? Absolutely now all he needs is a wise head on his shoulders to make that career work.

Remember that the fans in DEN are not very forgiving. They got REAL lucky yesterday. REAL

[Watchthemiddle]

:listen: I think HOF SPEAK is way premature as we speak.

We are not even sure he will have as good a career as an average QB. Concussions alone could end his career before it gets started.

Does he have arm strength? Absolutely now all he needs is a wise head on his shoulders to make that career work.

Remember that the fans in DEN are not very forgiving. They got REAL lucky yesterday. REAL

They also choose to put all of the blame on the QB really quick. Had we not won yesterday..even with Cutler playing great at times...he would have taken all of the blame. Thats just the way it goes with some Bronco fans. NO matter how well you did last week, last quarter, or last play...you get all of the blame for the fall of a good season, game, or whatever else.

Thank God Cutler redeemed himself after that botched lateral in the last remaining minutes.

[Lonestar]

They also choose to put all of the blame on the QB really quick. Had we not won yesterday..even with Cutler playing great at times...he would have taken all of the blame. Thats just the way it goes with some Bronco fans. NO matter how well you did last week, last quarter, or last play...you get all of the blame for the fall of a good season, game, or whatever else.

Thank God Cutler redeemed himself after that botched lateral in the last remaining minutes.

I suspect a few fans back in DEN were greasing up the rail until the FG happened.

[lex]

If you want my real answer, it's going to come with some "rudeness" with it.

Jay Cutler was our QB, and he was part of a team that overcame the odds and helped us with the game.

Football is a team game. The team together, from the coaches on down helped us win yesterday. A little luck was involved too. Plummer isn't even on the Denver Broncos anymore, so who really cares? All that matters is that we won yesterday. A win is a win is a win. Let's drop him (Jake) as a subject already. Plummer did some great things in Denver, and made some mistakes. Leave it at that. There's absolutely no reason that he's the topic for discussion anymore.


I had no idea that it was such a sore spot for some people. But to be honest, its ridiculous that it is and its also ridiculous to walk on egg shells when it comes to discussing Plummer. And there were different layers to making the move to Cutler last year.

If it was about making the playoffs, Plummer would have been the logical choice. But since Shanahan is more focused on SBs than the playoffs per se, he made the move. It was a huge event last season and its still affecting this season and anyone who pretends otherwise is lying the him/herself. But if Plummer would have remained a QB and if we would have made the playoffs, we would likely be having the same discussion now that we had last year....the timing of the decision accelerated the discusssion. But again, anyone who wants to say it doesnt matter is full of it.

It was a huge move, it was only a year ago, and its effects are being felt today. Why should people acquiesce because of some ridiculous obsession some may have with Jake? Youre right, Jake did some good things for us but the question is focused on winning games and its fair to ask whether Jake could have won this game.

[omac]

Just remember that Jay had the option of not trying to force th throw. How many times did you hear the announcers say he threw off his back foot or the one time he threw it across his body.

This kid has a lot of learning to do to cut down on possible REALLY BAD circumstances. I hope it is sooner rather than later.


I saw little wrong with either methods. He threw across his body because the
receiver was wide open and because he CAN do it.

Elway did that often, because he could. I remember an interview with the
Raiders' HOF cornerback Mike Haynes when he was playing, as a contemporary
to Elway. Haynes commented about those cross-body throws to the other
side of the field, saying that he knew he had an interception when Elway
threw it. Problem is, Haynes went on, by the time he got there, Elway's
ball was already by him, in the hands of the receiver. Cutler has that same
kind of arm strength.

You do not want the normal quarterback throwing off his back foot or
across his body. But Cutler is not your normal quarterback. I see his doing
that for the rest of his career, and forging his own way into the HOF by it.

IMHO.

-----

Hi Jrwiz, my point was that we kept them in a game they could not muster enough offense to have any business winning. That Jay made those mistakes are a given, and I expect to see more of the same, as he's still on his 2nd year. That's probably the reason people are more forgiving of his mistakes, that along with the fact that for the mistakes he makes, he backs them up with winning plays.

Also, I agree with topscribe. A lot of Elway passes that have won games for Denver were the types that if you didn't have the arm to throw it, you had no business doing so. On throwing off his back foot, sometimes that happens under pressure. Brett Favre used to do that pretty well during his MVP years.

Truth is, even Elway threw an ill-advised pass for an interception in the endzone in the superbowl against Green Bay, while Denver was in scoring possition.

Under Cutler, we had a ton of passing yards against a team that was pretty good last year with sacks, and against the pass. Plus, he spread the ball passing pretty well consistently to Javon, Marshall, Stokley, Henry, and even Graham. And our rushing yardage was pretty good too.

Even with the mistakes, the difference in the offense under him is unignorable. In some way, he's way ahead in development over Leinart, Young, Alex Smith, Lossman, Harrington, Jackson, Leftwich, Croyle, and other young quarterbacks, and that's after only 6 pro games. The only guy who I think could learn even faster is Quinn, but that's only based on the preseason. :cool:

[In-com-plete]

I voted yes....of course. :D

But when you consider we won the last game there in '05 with far less talent on offense, in worse conditions, and against what I feel was a better Buffalo team offensively and defensively....it's a no-brainer.

*Edit:
And throw in the fact that Plummer would have been holding for Elam, we wouldn't have even needed a late comeback. There's a reason Sauerbrun was replaced by Plummer as the holder in '05.

[arapaho2]

If you want my real answer, it's going to come with some "rudeness" with it.

Jay Cutler was our QB, and he was part of a team that overcame the odds and helped us with the game.

Football is a team game. The team together, from the coaches on down helped us win yesterday. A little luck was involved too. Plummer isn't even on the Denver Broncos anymore, so who really cares? All that matters is that we won yesterday. A win is a win is a win. Let's drop him (Jake) as a subject already. Plummer did some great things in Denver, and made some mistakes. Leave it at that. There's absolutely no reason that he's the topic for discussion anymore.

one of the reasons i came to this board was so that i wouldnt have to put up with the holier then thou...i'll pick the topics of discussions... crap

if people wanna talk about plummer, elway , or lou friggen farigno..its their choice....you dont have to look

[arapaho2]

They also choose to put all of the blame on the QB really quick. Had we not won yesterday..even with Cutler playing great at times...he would have taken all of the blame. Thats just the way it goes with some Bronco fans. NO matter how well you did last week, last quarter, or last play...you get all of the blame for the fall of a good season, game, or whatever else.

Thank God Cutler redeemed himself after that botched lateral in the last remaining minutes.


i would never had put the blame on cutler...other then a couple bad plays, he was great....you could easily blame walker for killing a couple drives in that case

and no given the game itself...if you put it in the context it happened...less then two minutes down 2 points, one TO( which was used on walkers injury)....would plummer have been able to take the team down for a chance to win..on the way converting two crucial forth downs....just to get the chance


no in my mind, plummer was a good qb...but in pressure situations folded easily...that game woulda went in the L side

and as i sit back and reflect on the drive...i am simply amazed...think about it rationally....that was a truely amazing drive for a young player in his 6th start....can anyone honestly think of a time when griese or plummer installed that kind of magic into a drive to win a game...i cant

[Lonestar]

Hi Jrwiz, my point was that we kept them in a game they could not muster enough offense to have any business winning. That Jay made those mistakes are a given, and I expect to see more of the same, as he's still on his 2nd year. That's probably the reason people are more forgiving of his mistakes, that along with the fact that for the mistakes he makes, he backs them up with winning plays.

Also, I agree with topscribe. A lot of Elway passes that have won games for Denver were the types that if you didn't have the arm to throw it, you had no business doing so. On throwing off his back foot, sometimes that happens under pressure. Brett Favre used to do that pretty well during his MVP years.

Truth is, even Elway threw an ill-advised pass for an interception in the endzone in the superbowl against Green Bay, while Denver was in scoring possition.

Under Cutler, we had a ton of passing yards against a team that was pretty good last year with sacks, and against the pass. Plus, he spread the ball passing pretty well consistently to Javon, Marshall, Stokley, Henry, and even Graham. And our rushing yardage was pretty good too.

Even with the mistakes, the difference in the offense under him is unignorable. In some way, he's way ahead in development over Leinart, Young, Alex Smith, Lossman, Harrington, Jackson, Leftwich, Croyle, and other young quarterbacks, and that's after only 6 pro games. The only guy who I think could learn even faster is Quinn, but that's only based on the preseason. :cool:

Yet now you have to factor in he has not enough games going for him that the DC have yet to be able to Book him.

Look at what happens to almost all rookie QB's. Romo last year was almost unstoppable in the first 8 or so games last year then reality crashed down on him when the defenses learned how to beat him. And they beat him like cheap drum most of the rest of the season.

I liked most of what I saw on Sunday. but there is a lot of areas he will have to stop doing or the good defenses are gonna eat him alive.
He starts making Vanderbilt mistakes when under BIG duress. You know in your heart that will not work in the NFL for long.

Can he make those throws? Sure SHOULD HE? NOT consistently.

He is Not John, he may be better that John was. Right now he is not.

But he is gonna get is *** benched if he pulls many more of those back wards passes.

[Lonestar]

i would never had put the blame on cutler...other then a couple bad plays, he was great....you could easily blame walker for killing a couple drives in that case

and no given the game itself...if you put it in the context it happened...less then two minutes down 2 points, one TO( which was used on walkers injury)....would plummer have been able to take the team down for a chance to win..on the way converting two crucial forth downs....just to get the chance


no in my mind, plummer was a good qb...but in pressure situations folded easily...that game woulda went in the L side

and as i sit back and reflect on the drive...i am simply amazed...think about it rationally....that was a truely amazing drive for a young player in his 6th start....can anyone honestly think of a time when griese or plummer installed that kind of magic into a drive to win a game...i cant



But you have to remember to Jake had a lot of come from behind wins many in DEN until last season of course not sure what happened to his mind with Jay being drafted.

Look at all the new toys Jay has this year that Jake did not have the past couple of years.
Graham vs alexander and a rookie
Thenry vs tater
Scheffler who last year did not understand the playbook till week 10 or so.
A real healthy Walker who was coming off an ACL
Stokely watts?
Marshall Rod with a bad hip
A somewhat better OLINE

Just in the above Jay has a world of difference in talent to fall back on.


Not sure how anyone would handle having a 13-3 season pro bowl in many folks minds and had he been in the NFC no doubt about it. To have the GM and HC pull the rug out from underneath you and I suspect without warning of any sort. That has to mess with your mind.

Do you really hold Jake sole responsible for the loss to PITS? Anyone that that has a clear mind on Jake has to realize that the OLINE and defense folded like a cheap tent.
Could John have overcome all of that, I don't know. Even John needed some protection and when the LB is in your face before you can even get back to the pocket something is wrong. Jake was about the best at getting out of sacks I have ever seen, but PIT was in the zone that game.

D you really think Mikey sat down with Jake after that game to discuss the future? How about the new guy humdinger? Would kubes have done it I think he would have had a heads up.

As off beat as Jake is do you really think he had any concern for losing his job on draft day would have been watching the draft in stead of out fishing?

I'm sorry but even though it is a business and I do not totally disagree with Jay being taken. I think it was out of the blue for EVERYONE in the organization other than Mikey and humdinger and maybe even Pat.

[arapaho2]

Yet now you have to factor in he has not enough games going for him that the DC have yet to be able to Book him.

Look at what happens to almost all rookie QB's. Romo last year was almost unstoppable in the first 8 or so games last year then reality crashed down on him when the defenses learned how to beat him. And they beat him like cheap drum most of the rest of the season.

I liked most of what I saw on Sunday. but there is a lot of areas he will have to stop doing or the good defenses are gonna eat him alive.
He starts making Vanderbilt mistakes when under BIG duress. You know in your heart that will not work in the NFL for long.

Can he make those throws? Sure SHOULD HE? NOT consistently.

He is Not John, he may be better that John was. Right now he is not.

But he is gonna get is *** benched if he pulls many more of those back wards passes.

uhhhmm gradkowski, leinart and young all had losing records thier first 8 games...secondly romo was in his third or forth year last season and far from a rookie


and third it was his 6th start and he led this team well...we all know there still will be rookie mistakes , it comes with growing up as a nfl qb..hopefully he will learn and his faults will be swept away by his great plays, unlike some...Cough,,,plummer,, cough

[arapaho2]

But you have to remember to Jake had a lot of come from behind wins many in DEN until last season of course not sure what happened to his mind with Jay being drafted.

Look at all the new toys Jay has this year that Jake did not have the past couple of years.
Graham vs alexander and a rookie
Thenry vs tater
scheffler who last year did not understand the playbook till week 10 or so.
A real healthy Walker who was coming off an acl
Stokley watts?
Marshall Rod with a bad hip
A somewhat better Oline

Just in the above Jay has a world of diffenrece in talent to fall back on.


Not sure how anyone would handle having a 13-3 season pro bowl in many folks minds and had he been in the NFC no doubt about it. To have the GM and HC pull the rug out from underneath you and I suspect without warning of any sort. That has to mess with your mind.

Do you really hold Jake sole responsible for the loss to PITS? Anyone that that has a clear mind on Jake has to realize that the OLINE and defense folded like a cheap tent.
Could John have overcome all of that, I don't know. Even John needed some protection and when the LB is in your face before you can even get back to the pocket something is wrong. Jake was about the best at getting out of sacks I have ever seen, but PIT was in the zone that game.

D you really think Mikey sat down with Jake after that game to discuss the future? How about the new guy humdinger? Would kubes have done it I think he would have had a heads up.

As off beat as Jake is do you really think he had any concern for losing his job on draft day would have been watching the draft in stead of out fishing?

I'm sorry but even though it is a business and I do not totally disagree with Jay being taken. I think it was out of the blue for EVERYONE in the organization other than Mikey and humdinger and maybe even Pat.

a couple things ...you critisize cutler for his bad play "lateral"....did you happen to see the huge pass rush and the oline protection crumble away like dry leaves on that play?....yet you always insist that plummer shouldnt be held responsible for his turnovers in that game...and again its old news but i saw plummer in the afccg give up two ints on crucial drives with the game still close...with no protection issues,,,,the first a designed rollout, the second as he moved out of the pocket...neither one had defensive pressure in his face just bad throws...the fumbles was pressure...but not the ints

and why would any coach go sit down and tell his players ...in next weeks draft we are gonna take a player in your position????it doesnt make sense and is merely a convienent excuse for plummers collapse

no one owes plummer an explaination on why we went after a potential franchise qb...do you think we sat down and consulted bailey before we drafted williams and foxworth?...gee we went after DE in this draft...i wonder if shanny told ebenezer, engleberger, lang, dumervill..."boys we are not trying to shake your confindence, or say your not a great player , but next week were gonna draft Moss and crowder":listen:

and no it wasnt out of the blue...maybe for the fans with the shades on, but not the ones that saw our offesne get more and limited with each passing year

[Lonestar]

uhhhmm gradkowski, leinart and young all had losing records thier first 8 games...secondly romo was in his third or forth year last season and far from a rookie


and third it was his 6th start and he led this team well...we all know there still will be rookie mistakes , it comes with growing up as a nfl qb..hopefully he will learn and his faults will be swept away by his great plays, unlike some...Cough,,,plummer,, cough

Think what you wish until someone plays he is a rookie, he can have ten years in the league until the defense Coordinators have to time to study someone they are a rookie.

that is what happened to romo he was all world until they booked him. after that merely OK to bad.

The same thing will happen to Jay you can take that to the bank. Coupled with making mistakes well then he/we are in trouble.

Now is he better than the other rookies from last year? (In some folks minds he is the best rookie ever to be drafted). We will not know for a while, and frankly none of them had the surrounding cast he has this year.

Was not Young the rookie of the year last year or if not near the top of the voting?

[Mike]

We will not know for a while, and frankly none of them had the surrounding cast he has this year.

Was not Young the rookie of the year last year or if not near the top of the voting?


Quick point...Bolden, Fitzgerald, and James. Care to rethink the surrounding talent eval?

Quick point 2...mobile QBs may look flashy and good out the gate, but their inability to be passing QBs catch up to them after a while when injuries mount and they can't make plays with their legs.

Jay will struggle. Jay will shine. Just like every other young QB will. By week 8, he will shine more than he struggles.

Jake would have lost this game...it was week 1 after all. ;)

[Lonestar]

a couple things ...you critisize cutler for his bad play "lateral"....did you happen to see the huge pass rush and the oline protection crumble away like dry leaves on that play?....yet you always insist that plummer shouldnt be held responsible for his turnovers in that game...and again its old news but i saw plummer in the afccg give up two ints on crucial drives with the game still close...with no protection issues,,,,the first a designed rollout, the second as he moved out of the pocket...neither one had defensive pressure in his face just bad throws...the fumbles was pressure...but not the ints

and why would any coach go sit down and tell his players ...in next weeks draft we are gonna take a player in your position????it doesnt make sense and is merely a convienent excuse for plummers collapse

no one owes plummer an explaination on why we went after a potential franchise qb...do you think we sat down and consulted bailey before we drafted williams and foxworth?...gee we went after DE in this draft...i wonder if shanny told ebenezer, engleberger, lang, dumervill..."boys we are not trying to shake your confindence, or say your not a great player , but next week were gonna draft Moss and crowder":listen:

and no it wasnt out of the blue...maybe for the fans with the shades on, but not the ones that saw our offesne get more and limited with each passing year

DO you really think that mikey sat down with Jake and ave him any idea he was displeased enough to take a QB in the draft let alone move up to take one.

I suspect that this was a blindside hit. Considering the record from the year before.

I don't think one can compare "ebenezer, engleberger, lang, dumervill" play last year with Jake near all world season. Had he been in the NFC and not in the AFC he would been numbers wise at the top of the QB's in stats. With only Hassle back being better than him.

NOW I can get back to Jay is our QB now and will live with that. Can you let Jake go?

[Lonestar]

Quick point...Bolden, Fitzgerald, and James. Care to rethink the surrounding talent eval?

Quick point 2...mobile QBs may look flashy and good out the gate, but their inability to be passing QBs catch up to them after a while when injuries mount and they can't make plays with their legs.

Jay will struggle. Jay will shine. Just like every other young QB will. By week 8, he will shine more than he struggles.

Jake would have lost this game...it was week 1 after all. ;)

Good points all of them. But Jay almost lost this game inspite of doubleing yards or more on BUF.

It was week one afterall. This one was pure luck on that last play.

[Mike]

Good points all of them. But Jay almost lost this game inspite of doubleing yards or more on BUF.

It was week one afterall. This one was pure luck on that last play.

Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. :cool:

[BANJOPICKER1]

If Jake where still the QB,would we have all the players we had on the O this year?Would we still be calling the plays we called or would we be calling dumbed down plays like we were last year?How would the Bills have game planned us?There are just too many if's to really make a call on this question!

[topscribe]

Luck is when preperation meets opportunity. :cool:
Cosigned. :beer:

Elam talked about how they often practiced just that situation. That came
from preparation, not luck. They all knew what they were doing. Had they not
practiced that exact play, they would have looked like the Keystone Kops out
there, running around, wondering what to do, where to go, as time ran out.

That entire last come-from-behind series was the result of the talent of Cutler
and his entire offense . . . and preparation. They won because they deserved
to win. Both sides goofed up at times, but in the end, the Broncos did it right. :coffee:

-----

[topscribe]

If Jake where still the QB,would we have all the players we had on the O this year?Would we still be calling the plays we called or would we be calling dumbed down plays like we were last year?How would the Bills have game planned us?There are just too many if's to really make a call on this question!
I agree whole-heartedly with what you said (except for the "dumbed down" part).

-----

[arapaho2]

Think what you wish until someone plays he is a rookie, he can have ten years in the league until the defense Coordinators have to time to study someone they are a rookie.

that is what happened to romo he was all world until they booked him. after that merely OK to bad.

The same thing will happen to Jay you can take that to the bank. Coupled with making mistakes well then he/we are in trouble.

Now is he better than the other rookies from last year? (In some folks minds he is the best rookie ever to be drafted). We will not know for a while, and frankly none of them had the surrounding cast he has this year.

Was not Young the rookie of the year last year or if not near the top of the voting?


no a rookie is a player in his first year in the nfl...period! thats why the R beside their name changes to a 2nd on the roster in year two

and teams studied romo all last season , and he did quite well sunday

and another thing...you always put the blame on cutlers college career on him...saying a good qb still wins.....but now its because cutler is doing better its because he has a better supporting cast?

[arapaho2]

Good points all of them. But Jay almost lost this game inspite of doubleing yards or more on BUF.

It was week one afterall. This one was pure luck on that last play.


sure jay almost lost the game on that one play...just like gold almost lost the game on his frequant drive continueing missed takles,, or walker almost cost the game on his few dropped passes...some ending drives... or the ST almost cost us the game when the gave up the TD...but on the other hand jays great playes allowed us to win..just as walkers great clutch rec allowe us to win and the special teams gutsy last second Fg allowed us to win


luck had nothing do with it...practice did though

[Lonestar]

Cosigned. :beer:

Elam talked about how they often practiced just that situation. That came
from preparation, not luck. They all knew what they were doing. Had they not
practiced that exact play, they would have looked like the Keystone Kops out
there, running around, wondering what to do, where to go, as time ran out.

That entire last come-from-behind series was the result of the talent of Cutler
and his entire offense . . . and preparation. They won because they deserved
to win. Both sides goofed up at times, but in the end, the Broncos did it right. :coffee:

-----

He said they have practiced it for the past ten year and had never had to use it that i had come in handy.

That said trying to get off a FG with less than 15 seconds on the clock when the previous play is called dead is Luck Folks no matter how much it was practiced.

You can believe that it was all cutler I'll wait awhile.

[TXBRONC]

But you have to remember to Jake had a lot of come from behind wins many in DEN until last season of course not sure what happened to his mind with Jay being drafted.

Look at all the new toys Jay has this year that Jake did not have the past couple of years.
Graham vs alexander and a rookie
Thenry vs tater
Scheffler who last year did not understand the playbook till week 10 or so.
A real healthy Walker who was coming off an ACL
Stokely watts?
Marshall Rod with a bad hip
A somewhat better OLINE

Just in the above Jay has a world of difference in talent to fall back on.


Not sure how anyone would handle having a 13-3 season pro bowl in many folks minds and had he been in the NFC no doubt about it. To have the GM and HC pull the rug out from underneath you and I suspect without warning of any sort. That has to mess with your mind.

Do you really hold Jake sole responsible for the loss to PITS? Anyone that that has a clear mind on Jake has to realize that the OLINE and defense folded like a cheap tent.
Could John have overcome all of that, I don't know. Even John needed some protection and when the LB is in your face before you can even get back to the pocket something is wrong. Jake was about the best at getting out of sacks I have ever seen, but PIT was in the zone that game.

D you really think Mikey sat down with Jake after that game to discuss the future? How about the new guy humdinger? Would kubes have done it I think he would have had a heads up.

As off beat as Jake is do you really think he had any concern for losing his job on draft day would have been watching the draft in stead of out fishing?

I'm sorry but even though it is a business and I do not totally disagree with Jay being taken. I think it was out of the blue for EVERYONE in the organization other than Mikey and humdinger and maybe even Pat.

I don't want to go through all of your post JR but I'm very sure that Jake had only two maybe three games where the team was either tied or behind late in the 4th quarter.

[shank]

irrelevant.

but i voted yes.

[Tned]

one of the reasons i came to this board was so that i wouldnt have to put up with the holier then thou...i'll pick the topics of discussions... crap

if people wanna talk about plummer, elway , or lou friggen farigno..its their choice....you dont have to look

As long as everyone is civil, pretty much any topic should be open for discussion. On the other hand, I am sure what Dream is being sensitive to is how quickly Jake threads turned badly at BM.

Now, I am afraid to read the other two pages I see that follow this post. :eek:

[B~ly~n~ch~amp]

Never heard of him :confused:

[Tned]

I don't all of your post JR but I'm very sure that Jake had only two maybe three games where team was either tied or behind late in the 4th quarter.

I was as big of a Jake supporter as anyone, but I do seem to recall Jake winning most of his games when the team was ahead. I don't think you can discount him as being a big part of the team jumping out to early leads, but at the same time, I don't think we ever saw the comeback kid label that he had when he came to Denver.

[TXBRONC]

I was as big of a Jake supporter as anyone, but I do seem to recall Jake winning most of his games when the team was ahead. I don't think you can discount him as being a big part of the team jumping out to early leads, but at the same time, I don't think we ever saw the comeback kid label that he had when he came to Denver.

I agree. For the most part he didn't have a lot of opportunities to pull off come from behind wins.

[Tned]

I agree. For the most part he didn't have a lot of opportunities to pull off come from behind wins.

And when he did have the opportunity, I think most of us that are honest would say we weren't filled with confidence in his ability to move us down the field in those final two minutes to score the winning TD or FG.

[TXBRONC]

And when he did have the opportunity, I think most of us that are honest would say we weren't filled with confidence in his ability to move us down the field in those final two minutes to score the winning TD or FG.


True. However, Lex asked a hypothetical question could Jake have led the team down the field for the game winning field goal? Yes it's possible that he could have done it. There is no way to know for certain since he's no longer the starting quarterback.

[arapaho2]

True. However, Lex asked a hypothetical question could Jake have led the team down the field for the game winning field goal? Yes it's possible that he could have done it. There is no way to know for certain since he's no longer the starting quarterback.


sure its possible he could have....but i will say this, that young man gave me hope, he gave me this weird sense that we would prevail...and that is something i not once got from plummer..not once

with plummer it was..."dont screw up...please dont screw up"

[lex]

True. However, Lex asked a hypothetical question could Jake have led the team down the field for the game winning field goal? Yes it's possible that he could have done it. There is no way to know for certain since he's no longer the starting quarterback.

Actually I asked if he would have, not if he could have.

1% likelihood = could
51%+ = probably would

[Watchthemiddle]

Would we have won this game if Elam wasn't our kicker?

Would we have won this game if Walker wasn't on this team?

Would we have won this game if Shottenheimer was our coach?

Would we have won this game if we drafted Vince Young instead of Cutler?

Would we have won this game if we played the Colts week one instead of the Bills?

Would we have won this game if Ramsey was the QB instead of Cutler?

Would we have won this game if we never signed Travis Henry?

Would we have won this game if we never traded for Champ?

Would we have won this game if we didn't hire Jim Bates?

Would we have won this game if we didn't sign Stokley?

Would we have won this game if we didn't sign Simeon RIce?


Just some questions for those who want to still argue the Jake question. Bottom line is...NO ONE KNOWS either way. Its all hypothetical.

[omac]

Yet now you have to factor in he has not enough games going for him that the DC have yet to be able to Book him.

Look at what happens to almost all rookie QB's. Romo last year was almost unstoppable in the first 8 or so games last year then reality crashed down on him when the defenses learned how to beat him. And they beat him like cheap drum most of the rest of the season.

And then Romo lit it up against the Giants this season. Teams have already seen film of Jay, and they've had a whole offseason to prepare. Still, he was able to get 300 passing yards against a team that was ranked 7th against the pass last season.


I liked most of what I saw on Sunday. but there is a lot of areas he will have to stop doing or the good defenses are gonna eat him alive.
He starts making Vanderbilt mistakes when under BIG duress. You know in your heart that will not work in the NFL for long.

Can he make those throws? Sure SHOULD HE? NOT consistently.

He is Not John, he may be better that John was. Right now he is not.

But he is gonna get is *** benched if he pulls many more of those back wards passes.

Well, he actually did go up against a pretty good passing defense in Buffalo, and he did pretty well. He's also shown that he learns from his mistakes. And most of us knew he was going to make mistakes, but a lot of ub believed he was gonna make plays too. So he actually performed the way most of us anticipated he would.

Improvements: We complained that he holds on to the ball too long .... fixed. We complained that he zeroes in one receiver too long ..... much better than last season. Fumbling the snap .... much, much better than last season, in fact, he had to fish up a bunch of extremely low, almost to the ground, shotgun snaps from Nalen.

He's making the mistakes of a young player, and we all knew that would happen. Heck, it even happens to veterans who've been in this league pretty long, and they don't get yanked immediately.

On throwing off his back foot ... sometimes, you're faced with a situation where you canNOT set-up properly. Those who try to make plays and who have the arm to do it make those throws, like Brette Favre in his MVP years. Those who don't are better off taking the sack. But we didn't get Jay to be a game-manager. He's gonna win us some games, and he's gonna lose us some games, because he's the kind of quarterback who makes plays.

After 5 games, did anyone honestly believe he was going to immediately play like a veteran? Sheesh, some veterans don't play like veterans.

Anyway, I'm with you on this one, I do hope he lessens his mistakes, but not to the point of becoming gunshy. :beer:

[TXBRONC]

Would we have won this game if Elam wasn't our kicker?

Would we have won this game if Walker wasn't on this team?

Would we have won this game if Shottenheimer was our coach?

Would we have won this game if we drafted Vince Young instead of Cutler?

Would we have won this game if we played the Colts week one instead of the Bills?

Would we have won this game if Ramsey was the QB instead of Cutler?

Would we have won this game if we never signed Travis Henry?

Would we have won this game if we never traded for Champ?

Would we have won this game if we didn't hire Jim Bates?

Would we have won this game if we didn't sign Stokley?

Would we have won this game if we didn't sign Simeon RIce?


Just some questions for those who want to still argue the Jake question. Bottom line is...NO ONE KNOWS either way. Its all hypothetical.


That's what I said.

[lex]

Why do people feel compelled to point out that the question is asking people's opinions? Arent people pretty much able to discern on their own that they are being asked their opinion? Its ok to answer yes or no based purely on opinion. Why do some people struggle with this notion that there is an opinion-based poll? Wow.

[Lonestar]

And then Romo lit it up against the Giants this season. Teams have already seen film of Jay, and they've had a whole offseason to prepare. Still, he was able to get 300 passing yards against a team that was ranked 7th against the pass last season.



Well, he actually did go up against a pretty good passing defense in Buffalo, and he did pretty well. He's also shown that he learns from his mistakes. And most of us knew he was going to make mistakes, but a lot of ub believed he was gonna make plays too. So he actually performed the way most of us anticipated he would.

Improvements: We complained that he holds on to the ball too long .... fixed. We complained that he zeroes in one receiver too long ..... much better than last season. Fumbling the snap .... much, much better than last season, in fact, he had to fish up a bunch of extremely low, almost to the ground, shotgun snaps from Nalen.

He's making the mistakes of a young player, and we all knew that would happen. Heck, it even happens to veterans who've been in this league pretty long, and they don't get yanked immediately.

On throwing off his back foot ... sometimes, you're faced with a situation where you canNOT set-up properly. Those who try to make plays and who have the arm to do it make those throws, like Brette Favre in his MVP years. Those who don't are better off taking the sack. But we didn't get Jay to be a game-manager. He's gonna win us some games, and he's gonna lose us some games, because he's the kind of quarterback who makes plays.

After 5 games, did anyone honestly believe he was going to immediately play like a veteran? Sheesh, some veterans don't play like veterans.

Anyway, I'm with you on this one, I do hope he lessens his mistakes, but not to the point of becoming gunshy. :beer:

I doubt that is in his vocabulary

gunner maybe

Gun slinger more probably.

I have no problem with him going for the gusto as long as he is not totally stupid about it.

Nalen is gonna have to find a way to get him the ball both on the long snaps as well as in the crotch one.

But back wards passing and that pesky back footer is gonna have to go OR BE prepared for major turn overs.

While BUF had a damned good pass defense last year a lot of that was Clements now in SFO.

[Den21vsBal19]

I thnk that we probably would have won the game with Jake, as the entire offense is an improvement over what we had last year, with the exception of the O-line.

Walker & Marshall are an improvement over an injured Smith, and recovering Walker.

Graham is an improvement over stone-hands Alexander.

Henry is an improvrement over Bell/Bell.

Add to that Elam's great record with Jake as his holder, I'd guess we'd have have at least matched this weekend's result.

But as Jake's no longer here, it's a bit of a moot point, isn't it.

[Tned]

I thnk that we probably would have won the game with Jake, as the entire offense is an improvement over what we had last year, with the exception of the O-line.

Walker & Marshall are an improvement over an injured Smith, and recovering Walker.

Graham is an improvement over stone-hands Alexander.

Henry is an improvrement over Bell/Bell.

Add to that Elam's great record with Jake as his holder, I'd guess we'd have have at least matched this weekend's result.

Great points.


But as Jake's no longer here, it's a bit of a moot point, isn't it.

Yep, it really is. Shouldn't the question be....

Would we have won today if Elway was sitll our QB? ;)

[rcsodak]

Great points.



Yep, it really is. Shouldn't the question be....

Would we have won today if Elway was sitll our QB? ;)

Gee, how about just inserting Craig Morton in there as well.... :rolleyes:

Looks to me like somebody just wants to start a flaming war.

I guess some just can't get away from arguing.


I think WTM said it best of anybody......

Just some questions for those who want to still argue the Jake question. Bottom line is...NO ONE KNOWS either way. Its all hypothetical.

[Lonestar]

Gee, how about just inserting Craig Morton in there as well.... :rolleyes:

Looks to me like somebody just wants to start a flaming war.

I guess some just can't get away from arguing.

Originally Posted by WTM
Just some questions for those who want to still argue the Jake question. Bottom line is...NO ONE KNOWS either way. Its all hypothetical.


I think WTM said it best of anybody......

Many could say:

that is Hypocritical

others hysterical.

Jake is gone may he rest in peace. In Idaho hope he finds what he is searching for. I for one think the NFL has lost an entertaining QB.