Broncos won't negotiate, want 1st rd pick for Marshall

[Italianmobstr7]

This is great news as far as I'm concerned. Mcdaniels and Broncos won't negotiate a trade for Brandon. They want a first round pick or he plays in Denver.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Broncos-want-firstrounder-for-Marshall.html

I fully expect another team to jump into the Brandon Marshall sweepstakes at some point this week. Not certain which team, but it appears Marshall has more than one team interested in his services. I do know this: The Denver Broncos won’t negotiate a trade for Marshall. Either a team is prepared to pay a first-rounder or move along. Denver will not take calls on Marshall; it’s either an offer sheet or he plays in Denver next season. If Seattle really wants Marshall, it will take the sixth pick in the draft….

[Ravage!!!]

14 is a first round pick

They say that now... but....

[Northman]

As i expected.

[BroncoAV06]

If its not a Top 10 pick how does it help the Broncos? 14 eh, but someone sell me on this. I can see a top 10 maybe make a play for a QB, but if its not what could does it do us?

[Ravage!!!]

If its not a Top 10 pick how does it help the Broncos? 14 eh, but someone sell me on this. I can see a top 10 maybe make a play for a QB, but if its not what could does it do us?

I guess I don't understand. Why would you assume that a top 10 pick is somehow less risky than a 14? I don't think a top 10 pick somehow makes the risk of using a draft choice to replace Marshall better.

Getting rid of Marshall isn't the best thing for this team. But, its going to happen.

[UnderArmour]

I'm assuming we play on matching if we don't like the draft position of the team offering him a contract. No matter how extravagant a contract Marshall is offered, he's worth it so I can see us matching someone drafting at say 30.

[GEM]

Is 14 a reach for Iatupi (not sure on spelling)?

[topscribe]

This is great news as far as I'm concerned. Mcdaniels and Broncos won't negotiate a trade for Brandon. They want a first round pick or he plays in Denver.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Broncos-want-firstrounder-for-Marshall.html

I fully expect another team to jump into the Brandon Marshall sweepstakes at some point this week. Not certain which team, but it appears Marshall has more than one team interested in his services. I do know this: The Denver Broncos won’t negotiate a trade for Marshall. Either a team is prepared to pay a first-rounder or move along. Denver will not take calls on Marshall; it’s either an offer sheet or he plays in Denver next season. If Seattle really wants Marshall, it will take the sixth pick in the draft….

Good. :2thumbs:

I don't see even a first-rounder there whom I would rather have for Marshall,
let alone anything lower. Therefore, it's the 6th-rounder or nothing, and,
frankly, I prefer nothing. Why would we just jettison the best receiver the
Broncos have ever had?

In fact, match whatever offer is made to him. Period. The Broncos will not get
another Brandon Marshall soon . . .

-----

[Nomad]

Seattle needs a OT more than they need Marshall!!

[JDL]

I'm assuming we play on matching if we don't like the draft position of the team offering him a contract. No matter how extravagant a contract Marshall is offered, he's worth it so I can see us matching someone drafting at say 30.

If a team uses a posion pill it simply won't matter... they can make a contract where Marshall's entire contract becomes guaranteed if he plays so many games in Denver. No NFL team will agree to that.

[GEM]

I would say Bryant with the 11th and Iatupi (sp?) with the 14. Replace Marshall and help our line out plus won't have top 10 money for either.

[broncobryce]

Is 14 a reach for Iatupi (not sure on spelling)?

I say no, but he's not quite that high on most draft boards.

[Nomad]

Is 14 a reach for Iatupi (not sure on spelling)?

IMO, no!

[GEM]

Good. :2thumbs:

I don't see even a first-rounder there whom I would rather have for Marshall,
let alone anything lower. Therefore, it's the 6th-rounder or nothing, and,
frankly, I prefer nothing. Why would we just jettison the best receiver the
Broncos have ever had?

In fact, match whatever offer is made to him. Period. The Broncos will not get
another Brandon Marshall soon . . .

-----

He doesn't want to be here and the minute he's able, he's out. No 2 ways about it.

[jrelway]

this is good news. dont fold mcdaniels. if marshall goes, get max value for his ass.

[BroncoAV06]

I guess I don't understand. Why would you assume that a top 10 pick is somehow less risky than a 14? I don't think a top 10 pick somehow makes the risk of using a draft choice to replace Marshall better.

Getting rid of Marshall isn't the best thing for this team. But, its going to happen.

I am not saying anything about risk I was just assuming that the value in the top 10 would be better if the Broncos wanted to make a play on say Bradford.

I think you are spot on in your final sentence. It seems like 1 step forward and two steps back. Lose a hell of a player and insert two rookies. But hell you never know if anything could be on the table for insert vetren player here.

[UnderArmour]

If a team uses a posion pill it simply won't matter... they can make a contract where Marshall's entire contract becomes guaranteed if he plays so many games in Denver. No NFL team will agree to that.

There is said to be an unwritten rule among owners not to use that again. And the contracts of RFAs since then seems to confirm it. In the case of Hutchinson though, you had a future HOF player in his prime up for grabs. Outside of a division/conference rival, I don't see a poison pill happening.

[Northman]

Why would we just jettison the best receiver the
Broncos have ever had?


-----

Dont you mean why would a receiver want to leave the team? This is no different than the Cutler senario. Brandon wants out and Denver is trying to accomidate him so as long as they get what he is worth. If not, he comes back and fulfills his contract.

[Broncolingus]

this is good news. dont fold mcdaniels. if marshall goes, get max value for his ass.

I agree...

This was never like the Jaby situation...

Denver has most (all) of the leverage and should 'leverage' it...

Stay the course...

[cuzz4169]

It wouldnt be the 14th pick denver would get the 6th pick...the 14th pick is originally our own...if signed to an offer sheet the team has to give their own pick which is the 6th.

[Ravage!!!]

It wouldnt be the 14th pick denver would get the 6th pick...the 14th pick is originally our own...if signed to an offer sheet the team has to give their own pick which is the 6th.

yes yes.. we understsand that. But that doesn't mean that negotiations won't happen that would send the 14th and not the 6th

[topscribe]

He doesn't want to be here and the minute he's able, he's out. No 2 ways about it.

The Broncos hold allllllllll the cards. If they don't want him out, he's not out . . .



Dont you mean why would a receiver want to leave the team? This is no different than the Cutler senario. Brandon wants out and Denver is trying to accomidate him so as long as they get what he is worth. If not, he comes back and fulfills his contract.

A 6th-rounder is not what Marshall is worth. He is a proven superstar, a HOFer,
assuming he matures, which appears to be coming. Neither Dez Bryant nor
anyone else coming up in the draft is proven. That is what I'm getting at.
There is no one available for whom I would want to trade Marshall. What he
wants is not an issue. Whether he goes or stays is up to the Broncos. Period.

-----

[Carl]

Is 14 a reach for Iatupi (not sure on spelling)?

Absolutley. Dont get me wrong I like the guy and i think hell be a great guard but he should not be picked until the 20's. That said if we draft him at 14 im not gonna be throwing beer at the tv or anything. We have a need and to reach a little bit is not uncommon at all. To take Iupati over Dan Williams tho would be stupid. And williams at 14 is not a reach at all. He could even go to Miami at 12 possibly.

[topscribe]

Absolutley. Dont get me wrong I like the guy and i think hell be a great guard but he should not be picked until the 20's. That said if we draft him at 14 im not gonna be throwing beer at the tv or anything. We have a need and to reach a little bit is not uncommon at all. To take Iupati over Dan Williams tho would be stupid. And williams at 14 is not a reach at all. He could even go to Miami at 12 possibly.

The key is, which one is more likely to help the Broncos WIN? I don't care a whit
about reaching. All I care about is the W-L record.

-----

[underrated29]

I'm assuming we play on matching if we don't like the draft position of the team offering him a contract. No matter how extravagant a contract Marshall is offered, he's worth it so I can see us matching someone drafting at say 30.



Like the jets at 29 or wherever they are....


I do like this also. We either keep him, or we get a good pick for him. Where do the bengals pick? I heard they were interested.

Man-if we lose brandon for the 6th which turns into bradford, (or clausen i guess)... We once again made out like effing bandits!

[turftoad]

Like the jets at 29 or wherever they are....


I do like this also. We either keep him, or we get a good pick for him. Where do the bengals pick? I heard they were interested.

Man-if we lose brandon for the 6th which turns into bradford, (or clausen i guess)... We once again made out like effing bandits!

Yep, then either of the two have no one to throw the ball to.

[Italianmobstr7]

Like the jets at 29 or wherever they are....


I do like this also. We either keep him, or we get a good pick for him. Where do the bengals pick? I heard they were interested.

Man-if we lose brandon for the 6th which turns into bradford, (or clausen i guess)... We once again made out like effing bandits!

Not necessarily. Brandon is a PROVEN player. Bradford or Clausen can be colossal busts and which case the Seahawks would be the ones making out like bandits. Giving up a 50/50 chance and millions of dollars to a possible bust, or giving millions of dollars to a guy who has HOF potential in the PRIME of his career. If we lose Marshall to the Seahawks, we won't know the true value of what we got for 2-4 years.

[Italianmobstr7]

Yep, then either of the two have no one to throw the ball to.

Still have Gaffney, Royal, Mckinley, Stokely for now. We could always draft a stud WR too, but most rookie WR's aren't stars until year 3 or 4. Guys like Desean Jackson are very rare. Rookie WR's don't produce much normally.

[turftoad]

Still have Gaffney, Royal, Mckinley, Stokely for now. We could always draft a stud WR too, but most rookie WR's aren't stars until year 3 or 4. Guys like Desean Jackson are very rare. Rookie WR's don't produce much normally.

Do you really think any of those guys scare anyone?

Royal is the best of the bunch. McKinley showed nothing, Gaffney has never showed anything except for a game or two and Stokley is an aging slot guy. It would suck going into the seasn with that WR corps plus a rookie.

[Nomad]

I'm sure Marshall scares the FO including Bowlen because if they had the ol' crystal ball and Marshall would guarantee he is matured, cured from the attitude, and not a half a season suspension away with his next episode, I guarantee Bowlen would keep him, pay him, and tell Mcdaniels to lay off.

[Slick]

Do you really think any of those guys scare anyone?

Royal is the best of the bunch. McKinley showed nothing, Gaffney has never showed anything except for a game or two and Stokley is an aging slot guy. It would suck going into the seasn with that WR corps plus a rookie.

...but we're going to draft pure studs, and said rookie WR will be a can't miss prospect! I mean look no further than last year, we got a stud RB from Georgia, a pass rushing demon from Tennessee, and a world class corner/return man from Wake Forest, not to mention a gifted, cerebral, dart throwing, veteran field general from the Bears.

How could we not be optimistic?

:bandit:

[underrated29]

The jets had no one to throw the ball to. And sanchez imo is lesser rated than bradford and clausen.

The jets had a defense that we do not, but ours is getting there. And our OL is going to be fixed. Guaranteed.

Its coming together.

[turftoad]

The jets had no one to throw the ball to. And sanchez imo is lesser rated than bradford and clausen.

The jets had a defense that we do not, but ours is getting there. And our OL is going to be fixed. Guaranteed.

Its coming together.

Braylon Edwards had a pretty decent year whe he arrived in the Big Apple. He'll even be better this year. Cotchery wasn't to bad either.

[BroncoAV06]

The jets had no one to throw the ball to. And sanchez imo is lesser rated than bradford and clausen.

The jets had a defense that we do not, but ours is getting there. And our OL is going to be fixed. Guaranteed.

Its coming together.

Cotchery and Edwards are not horrible.

[topscribe]

...but we're going to draft pure studs, and said rookie WR will be a can't miss prospect! I mean look no further than last year, we got a stud RB from Georgia, a pass rushing demon from Tennessee, and a world class corner/return man from Wake Forest, not to mention a gifted, cerebral, dart throwing, veteran field general from the Bears.

How could we not be optimistic?

:bandit:

Yes, I remember another "can't miss" prospect the Broncos once drafted.

His name was Marcus Nash . . .

-----

[Northman]

Cotchery and Edwards are not horrible.

But they arent elite either.

[turftoad]

But they arent elite either.

Edwards is close and probably will be in NY. He's also a lot better than anyone on our roster besides BM. Hell, Cotchery brobably is too.

[nevcraw]

If this is true my repsect for this FO will move above subterrenean.. Baby steps!

the broncos have no reason to cut him loose untill his value has been replaced in full with interest.. Tell that to Petey C. and any other DB that comes calling..

and I's hoping we get us a bellcow gunslinger for all this heartache and trouble.. Q the violen..

[Northman]

Edwards is close and probably will be in NY. He's also a lot better than anyone on our roster besides BM. Hell, Cotchery brobably is too.

Nah, Edwards hasnt really lived up to his potential and "ironically" became a headcase when his former team struggled. Cotchery is good but i can easily see Royal being just as good as he is. Add in the fact that NY actually has a pretty decent QB he will make Edwards look like a world beater. Marshall has done it with a good and average QB which puts him far above those two you mentioned. However, it doesnt change that Brandon is being shopped because of his own issues so if your looking to place blame dude point it at Marshall where it belongs. Your just being totally naive at this point when it comes to Marshall's situation.

[turftoad]

Nah, Edwards hasnt really lived up to his potential and "ironically" became a headcase when his former team struggled. Cotchery is good but i can easily see Royal being just as good as he is. Add in the fact that NY actually has a pretty decent QB he will make Edwards look like a world beater. Marshall has done it with a good and average QB which puts him far above those two you mentioned. However, it doesnt change that Brandon is being shopped because of his own issues so if your looking to place blame dude point it at Marshall where it belongs. Your just being totally naive at this point when it comes to Marshall's situation.

Edwards was a stud a couple of years ago. No true QB hurt him in Clev. He's still young and Sanchez and Edwards will be a duo to recon'd with for years to come.

[Tned]

Still have Gaffney, Royal, Mckinley, Stokely for now. We could always draft a stud WR too, but most rookie WR's aren't stars until year 3 or 4. Guys like Desean Jackson are very rare. Rookie WR's don't produce much normally.

Just think back to the first few games, where McD refused to feature Marshall and was rotating him with Gaffney and other receivers. The offense was sputtering horribly.

Marshall being gone might be a foregone conclusion, but the fact is that we don't have anyone on the roster to replace him. The Broncos have been spending first day picks for over two decades trying to find someone with Marshall's talent and never found one until they lucked into Marshall in the 4th in '06.

[Northman]

Just think back to the first few games, where McD refused to feature Marshall and was rotating him with Gaffney and other receivers. The offense was sputtering horribly.

Marshall being gone might be a foregone conclusion, but the fact is that we don't have anyone on the roster to replace him. The Broncos have been spending first day picks for over two decades trying to find someone with Marshall's talent and never found one until they lucked into Marshall in the 4th in '06.

Indeed, its such a shame we couldnt get a Reggie Wayne or Jerry Rice instead of the next TO. Well, time to keep looking!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It all depends on how much other teams wear us down or if they themselves get into a bidding war. After a week or two with no tender offers, McDaniels will get antsy and actively start listening to propositions of other teams. The second McDaniels put the first round tender on Marshall without continuing to attempt to sign him to a long term deal he told the league "he's here for a 1st rounder, someone take him".

The Broncos are NOT going to sign Marshall long term. It's just not happening. that means either we deal him now or we keep him on his one year tender until this year is up and we lose him for nothing. Even McDaniels isn't that retarded. There's no way that we keep Marshall around knowingly for one more year just to lose him when we could get compensation and more toys for McDaniels' master plan, now.

The WORST possible scenario from our point of view is that come April 15th, Marshall hasn't signed a tender offer for another team or that we haven't traded him. That leaves us with a disgruntled WR on a one year lease who's going to do the same thing that he did last off-season and demand a trade, hold out, fake an injury, etc.

Sure he might come to training camp and play, but I doubt he'll do much more than just go through the motions knowing that an injury could wreck his payday. If we keep him one more year he's just one more year older with a higher chance of injury.

In short, if we're not ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that he's our guy and will be a career Bronco right now (which we're not because we tendered him the way we did), Then we must offload him this offseason to get MAXIMUM VALUE.

This is an insanely deep draft. One of the best in a long time especially for our current needs (OL and DL) to miss out on what could be a real chance to improve this team over a pissing contest of "we want what we want, and that's a first rounder" would be foolish. When Brandon Marshall leaves Denver next offseason for nothing because we did not act, everyone here will be sorely disappointed.

[Ravage!!!]

sometimes, a person has to knock off the rock to find the diamonds.

[Tned]

Indeed, its such a shame we couldnt get a Reggie Wayne or Jerry Rice instead of the next TO. Well, time to keep looking!

Anyone know who the other three players (besides Welker and Marshall) in NFL history to have three straight 100 catch seasons?

[Northman]

Anyone know who the other three players (besides Welker and Marshall) in NFL history to have three straight 100 catch seasons?

Does Welker smack women around and have temper tantrums during TC? :lol:

[Tned]

Does Welker smack women around and have temper tantrums during TC? :lol:

Not sure. I am pretty sure his head coach doesn't **** his own team by trashing a player he plans to trade in the final week of the season. Then again, I'm on my third bloody mary, so I might not be the voice of reason anymore.

[Northman]

Not sure. I am pretty sure his head coach doesn't **** his own team by trashing a player he plans to trade in the final week of the season. Then again, I'm on my third bloody mary, so I might not be the voice of reason anymore.

Yea, might want to step away from the keyboard.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Does Welker smack women around and have temper tantrums during TC? :lol:

Of course not, Welker got PAID. He makes more in one season than Marshall has in his whole career. Lest we forget, this is all about money. Marshall has proven his worth on the field over and over. Frankly, i don't give a damn what he does off the field as long as he produces on it. Either way, it's a moot point. Marshall is either gone this offseason or next. He'll never get the contract he wants or deserves from the Broncos.

[Tned]

Yea, might want to step away from the keyboard.

Yea, wish someone had told McDaniels to step away from the microphone before he screwed the Broncos to feed his ego. Nothing like telling every other team in the league that you have no use for a couple players that you will be looking to trade/get compensation for, a few months later....

[Nomad]

Obviously if Bowlen cares or the young, disturbed, elite WO would have been paid by now no matter what mcDaniels/Xanders says.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Obviously if Bowlen cares or the young, disturbed, elite WO would have been paid by now no matter what mcDaniels/Xanders says.

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14527100

Before last season, according to what two sources told The Post's Mike Klis the past week, the Broncos offered Marshall a multiyear contract at $9.5 million per season. Marshall turned down the offer because he sought additional upfront money.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Obviously if Bowlen cares or the young, disturbed, elite WO would have been paid by now no matter what mcDaniels/Xanders says.

So is it about loyalty? Character? Production? Keeping yourself clean off the field? Or is it simply about MONEY. Strange that if it had ANYTHING to do with anything other than money, why wouldn't Dumervil who is the model of all of those things, already have a new deal in place?

I still find it funny that to this point we haven't re-signed not a single guy from last season that wasn't a "McDaniels guy". Marshall, Doom, Kuper - tendered. Hochstein, Lloyd, and Arrington - shiny new contracts.

Just saying.

[Northman]

Of course not, Welker got PAID. He makes more in one season than Marshall has in his whole career. Lest we forget, this is all about money. Marshall has proven his worth on the field over and over. Frankly, i don't give a damn what he does off the field as long as he produces on it. Either way, it's a moot point. Marshall is either gone this offseason or next. He'll never get the contract he wants or deserves from the Broncos.

Its not just about money, its about holding yourself accountable off the field and on the field. Welker didnt always make that kind of money and he certainly didnt throw tantrums on the field before his payday. There are reasons why Brandon has had to wait for his money and they all fall on his shoulders. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Its not just about money, its about holding yourself accountable off the field and on the field. Welker didnt always make that kind of money and he certainly didnt throw tantrums on the field before his payday. There are reasons why Brandon has had to wait for his money and they all fall on his shoulders. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

With the way the Broncos are treating all of their valuable players this offseason, I would disagree with you. What have Doom, Kuper, and Orton done off the field NOT to deserve new contracts or be treated like one-year rentals?

These guys aren't backups and STers, they're core starters. That tells me the Broncos want to win, but don't want to pay for it.

[Ravage!!!]

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14527100

Before last season, according to what two sources told The Post's Mike Klis the past week, the Broncos offered Marshall a multiyear contract at $9.5 million per season. Marshall turned down the offer because he sought additional upfront money.

absolutely he did. YOu would be stupid, as a player, to sign for no up-front money. Every owner in the NFL would LOVE if every player would play with no up-front money. This way, only the player is taking the risk, and NONE on the owner. Playing for no up-front money is the last thing a player should do.... especially when you are considered on of the top in the NFL. If you get hurt, the owners don't show loyalty and pay you after getting hurt.

So that wasn't really very much of an offer by the Broncos.... to be honest.

[Northman]

With the way the Broncos are treating all of their valuable players this offseason, I would disagree with you. What have Doom, Kuper, and Orton done off the field NOT to deserve new contracts or be treated like one-year rentals?

These guys aren't backups and STers, they're core starters. That tells me the Broncos want to win, but don't want to pay for it.

Orton isnt a longterm kind of QB. Doom will get his payday i truly believe that and most likely so will Kuper. Just because it hasnt happened this very moment doesnt lead me to believe it falls under the same umbrella as Marsh.

[Northman]

absolutely he did. YOu would be stupid, as a player, to sign for no up-front money. Every owner in the NFL would LOVE if every player would play with no up-front money. This way, only the player is taking the risk, and NONE on the owner. Playing for no up-front money is the last thing a player should do.... especially when you are considered on of the top in the NFL. If you get hurt, the owners don't show loyalty and pay you after getting hurt.

So that wasn't really very much of an offer by the Broncos.... to be honest.

I wonder why. Couldnt have anything to do with his off the field problems....err...wait.....

[Ravage!!!]

Its not just about money, its about holding yourself accountable off the field and on the field. Welker didnt always make that kind of money and he certainly didnt throw tantrums on the field before his payday. There are reasons why Brandon has had to wait for his money and they all fall on his shoulders. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Wait.. di dyou say "wait for his money?" Because that was the problem last offseason. Marshall felt he was due, especially after mis diagnosed injury (by THIS staff)... then told he had to WAIT until after the 2009 season to get his contract. Now you are saying he has to wait again. Its no wonder players want to leave teh Broncos, lately.

[Ziggy]

With the way the Broncos are treating all of their valuable players this offseason, I would disagree with you. What have Doom, Kuper, and Orton done off the field NOT to deserve new contracts or be treated like one-year rentals?
These guys aren't backups and STers, they're core starters. That tells me the Broncos want to win, but don't want to pay for it.

There's a little thing called the CBA, and a possible lockout that might have something to do with that.

[Ravage!!!]

I wonder why. Couldnt have anything to do with his off the field problems....err...wait.....

I dont' care what the reasons. It would be STUPID for any player of his caliber to play with that offer and no up-front money. Any player, and any agent, would tell him the same. I don't care what the reasons someone tries to justify it with. Im just saying that I absolutely don't blame Marshall a single second for not taking that offer from the Broncos. They have shown they wouldn't show loyalty to him.. they sure wouldnt' pay him if he got injured.

[Northman]

Wait.. di dyou say "wait for his money?" Because that was the problem last offseason. Marshall felt he was due, especially after mis diagnosed injury (by THIS staff)... then told he had to WAIT until after the 2009 season to get his contract. Now you are saying he has to wait again. Its no wonder players want to leave teh Broncos, lately.

Dude cant keep out of trouble Rav. When he was scheduled to get his pay he had a altercation with his current fiance. Thats why Denver held back on his contract in terms of guaranteed money. Jr is correct when he says that when a player cant even be accountable enough with a lesser contract why would any team pay him big dollars of wasted money? Thats not very good business. :lol:

[Ziggy]

Wait.. di dyou say "wait for his money?" Because that was the problem last offseason. Marshall felt he was due, especially after mis diagnosed injury (by THIS staff)... then told he had to WAIT until after the 2009 season to get his contract. Now you are saying he has to wait again. Its no wonder players want to leave teh Broncos, lately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jWm1lak8NQ

[Ravage!!!]

Dude cant keep out of trouble Rav. When he was scheduled to get his pay he had a altercation with his current fiance. Thats why Denver held back on his contract in terms of guaranteed money. Jr is correct when he says that when a player cant even be accountable enough with a lesser contract why would any team pay him big dollars of wasted money? Thats not very good business. :lol:

No. you are assuming he's right. Thats not a fact, its a pure guess.

If you don't want to pay him, then understand why he's leaving. If he's not getting paid, I dont' blame him for leaving. I don't blame teams for paying him. This team is NOT going to be better without Marshall. So if it makes you feel better to not take the chance on his talent because of your guess of how he'll be.. fine. Then you'll feel ok when he's gone. But I never feel the team is getting better by getting rid of the best talent its ever had.

[Northman]

I dont' care what the reasons. It would be STUPID for any player of his caliber to play with that offer and no up-front money. Any player, and any agent, would tell him the same. I don't care what the reasons someone tries to justify it with. Im just saying that I absolutely don't blame Marshall a single second for not taking that offer from the Broncos. They have shown they wouldn't show loyalty to him.. they sure wouldnt' pay him if he got injured.

Yes, i know you could care less about guys who beat their women and such. Yea, i know im exaggerating but im so sick of you defending bad behavior at the risk of signing a player that other teams dont have to deal with in terms of same talent. Marshall isnt the be all end all to wide receivers so relax already. When Bmarsh helps a team get a championship ring than you can come back and tell me "i told you so" Until then, its just a little hiccup in terms of getting this team where it needs to be.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Orton isnt a longterm kind of QB. Doom will get his payday i truly believe that and most likely so will Kuper. Just because it hasnt happened this very moment doesnt lead me to believe it falls under the same umbrella as Marsh.

Regardless of whether Orton is or isn't, this is about Character and Production, right? As all the Ortonites are so happy to point out, he just had a CAREER season with us! He is a super high character guy with a bigger arm than both Manning and Brady! He is only the second Bronco QB (with Elway) to have a passer rating over 90 in ten games this season! He was PERSONALLY ENDORSED as "MY GUY" by the HEAD COACH in his end of the year press conference!

I can go all day with the Stats that folks on this board LOVE to throw around!

Looks like Character and Production IN SPADES TO ME!!!! So, WTF is the problem? Why didn't we pay him what he's worth? Why are we insulting him with a RFA tender offer?

Because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN MONEY, PERIOD! You know it and I know it.

[Slick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jWm1lak8NQ

This is exactly why he is leaving...we won't let him move on.

[Northman]

This is exactly why he is leaving...we won't let him move on.

After 4 years of BS i think its time.

[Slick]

After 4 years of BS i think its time.

What has he done since the punting the football/pouting in camp incident last off season?

[Ravage!!!]

Yes, i know you could care less about guys who beat their women and such. Yea, i know im exaggerating but im so sick of you defending bad behavior at the risk of signing a player that other teams dont have to deal with in terms of same talent. Marshall isnt the be all end all to wide receivers so relax already. When Bmarsh helps a team get a championship ring than you can come back and tell me "i told you so" Until then, its just a little hiccup in terms of getting this team where it needs to be.

I gotcha... so you aren't a good player unless you lead your team to a championship. Gotcha. I guess we should get rid of every player on the roster, then. I mean, if we are going to exaggerate and get sick of stuff, lets go all out.

I'm sick of people thinking the team gets better every time we get rid of talent. Justifying the stance with all kinds of crap. We just continue to get rid of the best talent this team has had... and we just continue to say "we are better off" BS. Thats what I'm sick of.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This is exactly why he is leaving...we won't let him move on.

This is exactly true - whether it be the sports writers, or the fans - we won't let him move on. If another team is willing to give Brandon a CHANCE, have faith that he has GROWN UP, WHY CAN'T THE BRONCOS DO IT?????? I have heard Coach McD say things are in the past - why can't others accept that?

[Ravage!!!]

This is exactly true - whether it be the sports writers, or the fans - we won't let him move on. If another team is willing to give Brandon a CHANCE, have faith that he has GROWN UP, WHY CAN THE BRONCOS DO IT?????? I have heard Coach McD say things are in the past - why can't others accept that?

I think becaues he then turned around and only put the 1st round tender on Marshall. Basically telling everyone in the NFL "He's up for the taking." If he truly felt things were in the past, and was ready to move on with Marshall on the team, he would have put the 1st and third. Vincent Jackson got the same tender as Marshall. Lots of playrs with a lot less talent, got the same tender as Marshall. So its telling everyone that McD really isn't wanting to move forward with Brandon on the team.

So I think some have already accepted as him being gone... thus... trashing him since it makes them feel better about the fact that he's basically not a Bronco any more.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

This is exactly true - whether it be the sports writers, or the fans - we won't let him move on. If another team is willing to give Brandon a CHANCE, have faith that he has GROWN UP, WHY CAN THE BRONCOS DO IT?????? I have heard Coach McD say things are in the past - why can't others accept that?

Because NOBODY (other than maybe a couple of Broncos fans) believes Josh McDaniels farther than they can throw him. I think that's pretty straightforward. Just like NOBODY believes that Marshall wants to stay in Denver even though he's said so already in several interviews. It's all just BS in front of the camera. Everyone with the exception of a few, knows this.

[Slick]

This is exactly true - whether it be the sports writers, or the fans - we won't let him move on. If another team is willing to give Brandon a CHANCE, have faith that he has GROWN UP, WHY CAN THE BRONCOS DO IT?????? I have heard Coach McD say things are in the past - why can't others accept that?

It seems as though it's irreconcilable for both parties Carol, however, I can't help but wonder, and be a little upset about us losing two extremely talented football players two off seasons in a row because of what seems to be friction with the head coach.

[Tned]

I wonder why. Couldnt have anything to do with his off the field problems....err...wait.....

Come on North, you know that is a skewed view of reality. How many players sign contracts in the 6-10 mil a year range without big guaranteed money? You know, all those players like Welker that don't beat their wives or girlfriends?

The answer is none, or almost none. NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, except for the signing bonus and specifically stated 'guaranteed' portions of the contract. If Marshall signed a 4 year, $8 million a year contract with little or no upfront money and got hurt, then the Broncos cut him and 'best case' is he gets an injury settlement that would have his current year paid out.

I really can't comprehent how some people expect Marshall to sign a contract that virtually no player in the NFL would sign.

[Nomad]

If someone could kindly give me Bowlen's number I'd be glad to ask him all these questions because he writes the checks and as of now he's not paying Marshall. I know owners like coaches to run their own teams but I also know if an owner truly wanted a player whether to keep him or acquire him, they can!! And the only thing I can come up with is Bowlen doesn't trust Marshall, because I agree with most that Marshall is talent you don't just throw away. Marshall should have gotten compensation for his hip thing but his stupidity off the field has his current owner concerned!! And about orton, Dum, Kuper, I don't see many teams at the current moment giving big contracts so ask me this question in mid summer!!

[Nomad]

It seems as though it's irreconcilable for both parties Carol, however, I can't help but wonder, and be a little upset about us losing two extremely talented football players two off seasons in a row because of what seems to be friction with the head coach.

Who was the other:confused:???

[Tned]

What has he done since the punting the football/pouting in camp incident last off season?

Also, which came first: Punting the ball, or McDaniels putting him on the scout team to run as a safety, and on the scout punt team running as a gunner.

[Tned]

This is exactly true - whether it be the sports writers, or the fans - we won't let him move on. If another team is willing to give Brandon a CHANCE, have faith that he has GROWN UP, WHY CAN THE BRONCOS DO IT?????? I have heard Coach McD say things are in the past - why can't others accept that?

McDaniels actions and words are often far different. The way McDaniels acted in week 17, accusing Marshall of faking an injury, resulted in surprise and criticism all around the NFL (in terms of media, ex-player talking heads, etc.).

McDaniels has made sure the bridge isn't just burned, but it has been incinerated and recycled.

[Slick]

Also, which came first: Punting the ball, or McDaniels putting him on the scout team to run as a safety, and on the scout punt team running as a gunner.

True. Sometimes you have to be the bigger man though, and I guess neither Brandon or Coach is willing to do that, hence the situation we find ourselves in. None of us knows what happens behind the closed doors at Dove Valley, but I'm having deja vu.

[Nomad]

True. Sometimes you have to be the bigger man, and I guess neither Brandon or Coach is willing to do that, hence the situation we find ourselves in. None of us knws what happens behind the closed doors at Dove Valley, but I'm having deja vu.

If Marshall only had problems solely with Mcdaniels then this would be a different situation. Marshall also had problems with Shanahan and this leads me to believe no matter how good Marshall is Bowlen isn't convinced!! To me, Marshall has dug himself into the mud!

And Mcdaniels was an idiot for airing out the BRONCOS in house drama to the media at the end of the season and Marshall was an idiot for his stunts at TC because the public got to see it!!

[GEM]

The Broncos hold allllllllll the cards. If they don't want him out, he's not out . . .




A 6th-rounder is not what Marshall is worth. He is a proven superstar, a HOFer,
assuming he matures, which appears to be coming. Neither Dez Bryant nor
anyone else coming up in the draft is proven. That is what I'm getting at.
There is no one available for whom I would want to trade Marshall. What he
wants is not an issue. Whether he goes or stays is up to the Broncos. Period.

-----

I think McDaniels showed how much he wanted him here when he only tendered him a 1st rounder. HOFer? :lol: I wouldn't go there, not yet anyways.

[Tned]

True. Sometimes you have to be the bigger man though, and I guess neither Brandon or Coach is willing to do that, hence the situation we find ourselves in. None of us knows what happens behind the closed doors at Dove Valley, but I'm having deja vu.

IMO, the head coach is supposed to be smart enough to not get into pissing contests with players. Smart enough not to take one of the most talented WR in the league and make him a scout safety and punt gunner.

If he isn't pulling his weight, suspend him. I have not problem with that, but trying to humiliate and break him is a bush league trick, not worthy of an NFL head coach.

[Northman]

What has he done since the punting the football/pouting in camp incident last off season?


Does it matter? How long is Denver supposed to wait for him to grow up? Ive asked this question time and again and no one wants to answer the question. 99% of the Denver players dont behave like that so i ask myself why is that. 99.9% of the best receivers in the league dont act like that before and after their paydays so again i ask why is that? Marshall has had these issues since his college days so when does it fall on his shoulders and the blame not go to everyone else around him? Should Denver wait another 4 years and pay him more money so that he can continue to do the same bad behavior and off the field problems? The risk is too high right now and everytime that we think he is turning the corner for the better he has yet another setback. I wouldnt pour a lot of money when i know i can find another guy without all the baggage.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Because NOBODY (other than maybe a couple of Broncos fans) believes Josh McDaniels farther than they can throw him. I think that's pretty straightforward. Just like NOBODY believes that Marshall wants to stay in Denver even though he's said so already in several interviews. It's all just BS in front of the camera. Everyone with the exception of a few, knows this.

I would hope that both Coach McD and Brandon are telling the truth. There has been more than once also that Coach McD stated he would like Brandon to stay here.

[Nomad]

That being said...i hope the broncos do choose to play hardball with seattle and others. This way he doesnt sign an offer sheet...the broncos wont "negotiate" therefore leaving Bmarsh and his attitude with Denver for one more year and getting ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING FOR HIM!!!!

And then he'll just sign a contract with seattle next yr...and all is good in the 206

Just think you and Marshall could head to Pioneer Square or the U district and party together!!

[Slick]

Does it matter? How long is Denver supposed to wait for him to grow up? Ive asked this question time and again and no one wants to answer the question. 99% of the Denver players dont behave like that so i ask myself why is that. 99.9% of the best receivers in the league dont act like that before and after their paydays so again i ask why is that? Marshall has had these issues since his college days so when does it fall on his shoulders and the blame not go to everyone else around him? Should Denver wait another 4 years and pay him more money so that he can continue to do the same bad behavior and off the field problems? The risk is too high right now and everytime that we think he is turning the corner for the better he has yet another setback. I wouldnt pour a lot of money when i know i can find another guy without all the baggage.

I guess my problem with yours and others thought process on this is why hold him to his incidents in the past? He was/still is a kid. Most of us have done things that we aren't proud of in our early and even mid 20's, but have learned and recovered from our mistakes.

We as fans and especially the media not being able to forgive and forget keeps old news on the front burner. ...and Shanahan's problems with Marshall weren't locker room problems as far as I know so once again we dig deep into the past to find the dirt on Brandon.

I'm bowing out of the conversation because I can tell I'm emotional about it, and also because obviously I have no say in the matter. However, I see a reoccurring problem with our Coach and his ability to relate to players. i think McDaniels has some growing up to do of his own.

These draft picks better pan out for him or his history with this franchise will be a short one IMO.

[Nomad]

I guess my problem with yours and others thought process on this is why hold him to his incidents in the past? He was/still is a kid. Most of us have done things that we aren't proud of in our early and even mid 20's, but have learned and recovered from our mistakes.

We as fans and especially the media not being able to forgive and forget keeps old news on the front burner. ...and Shanahan's problems with Marshall weren't locker room problems as far as I know so once again we dig deep into the past to find the dirt on Brandon.

I'm bowing out of the conversation because I can tell I'm emotional about it, and also because obviously I have no say in the matter. However, I see a reoccurring problem with our Coach and his ability to relate to players. i think McDaniels has some growing up to do of his own.

These draft picks better pan out for him or his history with this franchise will be a short one IMO.

It's not what he's done (it kinda is because he wouldn't be in the predicament if he didn't do those thing..though I don't condone at all what he has done) but if he does it again!! He'll be no good to the BRONCOS for a half a season plus and I assume the FO sees it the same way and does not want to give him a big payout! I don't see why it's so hard for people to understand this side of the argument!

[Slick]

It's not what he's done (it kinda is because he wouldn't be in the predicament if he didn't do those thing..though I don't condone at all what he has done) but if he does it again!! He'll be no good to the BRONCOS for a half a season plus and I assume the FO sees it the same way and does want to give him a big payout! I don't see why it's so hard for people to understand this side of the argument!

We're not willing to risk the fact that he might not screw up, but we're fine with taking risks in the draft? Hell,we could end up with a player or even a couple players that might not be good to the broncos EVER. Look no further than last year.

[Slick]

GEM, Jr, handle this clown please?

[Lonestar]

Maybe this was covered in the rabid debate between the We can live without him and the logical folks that say there will be a tomorrow whether he is here or not.

I'll give the clown guaranteed money IF he will GUARANTEE he will never again:

bitch slap his girlfriend,
loaf in a game,
give anyone lip,
cause another ruckess in a bar,
Aways be on time to meetings and appointments.
Never whine about getting the passes
not drop the easy balls.
Never drink and drive.
Pull stupid stunts that cause penalties.
loaf at practice.
kick balls
.


sure there are a hundred more, but You get the idea, he is never gonna guarantee being a choirboy. so why should we turn the other cheek time and time again.

We know what we have the coaches deal with this petulant punk daily, the trainers deal with him, the media deals with him and frankly causes him issues, when Y'all can guarantee he has matured I have ZERO issues with giving him a decent contract.

Anyone out there want to give him YOUR salary the next 25 years on the belief he will not get 1 to 8 week suspensions over the next few years.

I will repeat this again, if the maroon can not stay out of trouble when he is on a $400k contract then WHY WOULD you think he will be more responsible on a $9,000,000.00 Plus per year contract

That folks is throwing good money after bad.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

McDaniels actions and words are often far different. The way McDaniels acted in week 17, accusing Marshall of faking an injury, resulted in surprise and criticism all around the NFL (in terms of media, ex-player talking heads, etc.).

McDaniels has made sure the bridge isn't just burned, but it has been incinerated and recycled.

Here is a sit down interview with Gary Miller on Feb 7th - a while after the season was over, after Coach McD had time to think about the past season:

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/elway.john.favre.2.1476550.html

McDaniels Says He Wants Marshall Back Next Year

Back in the glory days for the Denver Broncos, head coach Mike Shanahan was known as "The Mastermind" -- his system got as much credit as the players, and sometimes more. But when John Elway, Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe all left, suddenly the system didn't work nearly as well.

Current head coach Josh McDaniels is a "system guy" as well -- to a point.

"If you only have really talented players but your system is very simple and average, it can't adjust to beat somebody else," McDaniels told CBS4 Broncos Insider Gary Miller in an exclusive interview. "Ultimately you're going to run into somebody who has got some talented players of their own, with a great system. Then they out-game plan you, they out-coach you. Now you end up losing the game."

He said in order for the Broncos to get where they want to be, he needs both great players and a great system.

"That's what this offseason and every offseason will be about."

Miller asked McDaniels if wide receiver Brandon Marshall fits into his system.

"Certainly. I mean he had a great year, a Pro Bowl year. Brandon and I got along fine and I know we've had some differences of opinion and some other things that have happened, but he's a very good player, obviously, one of the elite receivers in this league," he said. "Our goal is to try to keep all of our good players and he's certainly one of them."

With the collective bargaining agreement aside, McDaniels said he wants Marshall back.

"We're looking to assemble the best team we can with the best talent and the best players and he's certainly proved this year that he's one of those guys in this league that's going to continue to be productive at that level every season."

After a glorious 6-0 start, the Broncos season went straight south -- they won just two of their final 10 games. Fingers were pointed, and many of them straight at McDaniels. There was talk of a fractured locker room with McDaniels allegedly favoring the players that he brought in over the players he inherited from the Shanahan regime.

"There's one team in Denver, there are not two teams," McDaniels said. "There's not an old Denver and a new Denver. There's not Josh's guys and Mike's guys. There's one locker room, there's one team. Any talk of anything other is dead wrong."

McDaniels said he understand why people might think he favors the players he brought in, but he said there were a lot of players he inherited who had a great year in his first season.

"There were a lot of players who we brought in this year that I had no experience with … and didn't understand their entire background. But I knew of them as players and I knew of them as people when I got the opportunity to meet them briefly before we signed them."

He said he thinks it takes two people to work on relationships.

"It's our job to work together well, to put the right product on the field and win football games and compete for championships."

[Nomad]

Marshall a Bengal?????

[Tned]

Here is a sit down interview with Gary Miller on Feb 7th - a while after the season was over, after Coach McD had time to think about the past season:



Those 'in the bag' statements pale in comparison to the way he trashed Marshall and Scheffler in Week 17. You don't publicly accuse a guy of faking an injury in a must win game without it damaging the relationship with the player and worse, trashing his trade value.

[Lonestar]

Here is a sit down interview with Gary Miller on Feb 7th - a while after the season was over, after Coach McD had time to think about the past season:

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/elway.john.favre.2.1476550.html

McDaniels Says He Wants Marshall Back Next Year

Back in the glory days for the Denver Broncos, head coach Mike Shanahan was known as "The Mastermind" -- his system got as much credit as the players, and sometimes more. But when John Elway, Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe all left, suddenly the system didn't work nearly as well.

Current head coach Josh McDaniels is a "system guy" as well -- to a point.

"If you only have really talented players but your system is very simple and average, it can't adjust to beat somebody else," McDaniels told CBS4 Broncos Insider Gary Miller in an exclusive interview. "Ultimately you're going to run into somebody who has got some talented players of their own, with a great system. Then they out-game plan you, they out-coach you. Now you end up losing the game."

He said in order for the Broncos to get where they want to be, he needs both great players and a great system.

"That's what this offseason and every offseason will be about."

Miller asked McDaniels if wide receiver Brandon Marshall fits into his system.

"Certainly. I mean he had a great year, a Pro Bowl year. Brandon and I got along fine and I know we've had some differences of opinion and some other things that have happened, but he's a very good player, obviously, one of the elite receivers in this league," he said. "Our goal is to try to keep all of our good players and he's certainly one of them."

With the collective bargaining agreement aside, McDaniels said he wants Marshall back.

"We're looking to assemble the best team we can with the best talent and the best players and he's certainly proved this year that he's one of those guys in this league that's going to continue to be productive at that level every season."

After a glorious 6-0 start, the Broncos season went straight south -- they won just two of their final 10 games. Fingers were pointed, and many of them straight at McDaniels. There was talk of a fractured locker room with McDaniels allegedly favoring the players that he brought in over the players he inherited from the Shanahan regime.

"There's one team in Denver, there are not two teams," McDaniels said. "There's not an old Denver and a new Denver. There's not Josh's guys and Mike's guys. There's one locker room, there's one team. Any talk of anything other is dead wrong."

McDaniels said he understand why people might think he favors the players he brought in, but he said there were a lot of players he inherited who had a great year in his first season.

"There were a lot of players who we brought in this year that I had no experience with … and didn't understand their entire background. But I knew of them as players and I knew of them as people when I got the opportunity to meet them briefly before we signed them."

He said he thinks it takes two people to work on relationships.

"It's our job to work together well, to put the right product on the field and win football games and compete for championships."

Great article

I suspect that what Josh was doing in this article was raising value more than really wanting him back.


but in light of the Williams trial and what he has admitted to have done there on top of everything else . He need to go regardless of what we get from him.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Those 'in the bag' statements pale in comparison to the way he trashed Marshall and Scheffler in Week 17. You don't publicly accuse a guy of faking an injury in a must win game without it damaging the relationship with the player and worse, trashing his trade value.

Let's hope the coach has learned from this. Also, the injury, if it was an injury, occurred right after the press were allowed in that day. Rod Mackey on Ch9 that night, showed where Brandon grabbed his leg, and Mackey said "wouldn't you know it - Brondon gets injured just as the cameras started rolling".

Although I realize it should be kept "in house", first year coach, trying to make the playoffs, and if a tv sports reporter feels there is something fishy in regards to the injury, just might have appeared the same to the coach.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Great article I suspect that what Josh was doing in this article was raising value more than really wanting him back. .

Keep in mind, this was not a national interview, but a local interview.

[Lonestar]

Keep in mind, this was not a national interview, but a local interview.


You do not think the other coaches, or GM's read the paper or see the interviews of a local nature?

[Italianmobstr7]

Just think back to the first few games, where McD refused to feature Marshall and was rotating him with Gaffney and other receivers. The offense was sputtering horribly.

Marshall being gone might be a foregone conclusion, but the fact is that we don't have anyone on the roster to replace him. The Broncos have been spending first day picks for over two decades trying to find someone with Marshall's talent and never found one until they lucked into Marshall in the 4th in '06.

No need to convince me. I'm by far his biggest supporter and most on this site can tell you that.

[Northman]

I guess my problem with yours and others thought process on this is why hold him to his incidents in the past? He was/still is a kid. Most of us have done things that we aren't proud of in our early and even mid 20's, but have learned and recovered from our mistakes.

We as fans and especially the media not being able to forgive and forget keeps old news on the front burner. ...and Shanahan's problems with Marshall weren't locker room problems as far as I know so once again we dig deep into the past to find the dirt on Brandon.

I'm bowing out of the conversation because I can tell I'm emotional about it, and also because obviously I have no say in the matter. However, I see a reoccurring problem with our Coach and his ability to relate to players. i think McDaniels has some growing up to do of his own.

These draft picks better pan out for him or his history with this franchise will be a short one IMO.

He's not a kid so lets please not use that terminology. Secondly, whenever you have a problem child of any kind you see a pattern for the better or the worst. Brandon has yet to show any kind of stability or improvement in his character. So while i agree you should allow things to go from the past the problem is when do you say move on? Since his college days he's had constant problems and "claims" that he is learning from them only to see himself doing the same things over and over again. I suppose my stance would of been had he spent 2 years (sort of like probation) without any incidents both on and off the field i guess i could let those things go. But so far every year there has been something with this guy so i cant see paying the money for someone who isnt learning from his mistakes. The key point im making Slick is that he isnt learning from his mistakes so how can you say we should let things go when the same mistakes are being made year in and year out?

[Northman]

Let's hope the coach has learned from this. Also, the injury, if it was an injury, occurred right after the press were allowed in that day. Rod Mackey on Ch9 that night, showed where Brandon grabbed his leg, and Mackey said "wouldn't you know it - Brondon gets injured just as the cameras started rolling".

Although I realize it should be kept "in house", first year coach, trying to make the playoffs, and if a tv sports reporter feels there is something fishy in regards to the injury, just might have appeared the same to the coach.

It was too cold for him. :lol:

[Italianmobstr7]

Great article

I suspect that what Josh was doing in this article was raising value more than really wanting him back.


but in light of the Williams trial and what he has admitted to have done there on top of everything else . He need to go regardless of what we get from him.

Um excuse you. He does not need to go "regardless of what we get from him." if we don't get a top 15 (and hopefully top 10) pick then he needs to stay a Bronco. Too much production and too
good a player to trade away for anything less.

[rcsodak]

yes yes.. we understsand that. But that doesn't mean that negotiations won't happen that would send the 14th and not the 6th

Yes yes..we understand that. But per the article, McD said it's original pick or nothing, and he'll continue being a Bronco.

[rcsodak]

I'm sure Marshall scares the FO including Bowlen because if they had the ol' crystal ball and Marshall would guarantee he is matured, cured from the attitude, and not a half a season suspension away with his next episode, I guarantee Bowlen would keep him, pay him, and tell Mcdaniels to lay off.

If I remember, the last time BM got in trouble, he was close to being at the end of his 'timeout period'. Didn't Goodell say if he stayed out of trouble for a year, then his accumulations would have disappeared and any new ones would have started at "1"?
If that's the case, you'd think the same would be true now?

[rcsodak]

Nah, Edwards hasnt really lived up to his potential and "ironically" became a headcase when his former team struggled. Cotchery is good but i can easily see Royal being just as good as he is. Add in the fact that NY actually has a pretty decent QB he will make Edwards look like a world beater. Marshall has done it with a good and average QB which puts him far above those two you mentioned. However, it doesnt change that Brandon is being shopped because of his own issues so if your looking to place blame dude point it at Marshall where it belongs. Your just being totally naive at this point when it comes to Marshall's situation.

You're calling NYJ's QB "pretty decent"? Didn't they just run the ball 700+ times last year because he couldn't decide which team to throw to? :confused:

I'd take Orton over Sanchez. :puke:

[Northman]

You're calling NYJ's QB "pretty decent"? Didn't they just run the ball 700+ times last year because he couldn't decide which team to throw to? :confused:

I'd take Orton over Sanchez. :puke:

Are you really going to give Sanchez that much grief as a rookie? Amazing. :lol:

[rcsodak]

It all depends on how much other teams wear us down or if they themselves get into a bidding war. After a week or two with no tender offers, McDaniels will get antsy and actively start listening to propositions of other teams. The second McDaniels put the first round tender on Marshall without continuing to attempt to sign him to a long term deal he told the league "he's here for a 1st rounder, someone take him".

The Broncos are NOT going to sign Marshall long term. It's just not happening. that means either we deal him now or we keep him on his one year tender until this year is up and we lose him for nothing. Even McDaniels isn't that retarded. There's no way that we keep Marshall around knowingly for one more year just to lose him when we could get compensation and more toys for McDaniels' master plan, now.

The WORST possible scenario from our point of view is that come April 15th, Marshall hasn't signed a tender offer for another team or that we haven't traded him. That leaves us with a disgruntled WR on a one year lease who's going to do the same thing that he did last off-season and demand a trade, hold out, fake an injury, etc.

Sure he might come to training camp and play, but I doubt he'll do much more than just go through the motions knowing that an injury could wreck his payday. If we keep him one more year he's just one more year older with a higher chance of injury.

In short, if we're not ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that he's our guy and will be a career Bronco right now (which we're not because we tendered him the way we did), Then we must offload him this offseason to get MAXIMUM VALUE.

This is an insanely deep draft. One of the best in a long time especially for our current needs (OL and DL) to miss out on what could be a real chance to improve this team over a pissing contest of "we want what we want, and that's a first rounder" would be foolish. When Brandon Marshall leaves Denver next offseason for nothing because we did not act, everyone here will be sorely disappointed.

If he continues 'maturing' and performs on the field, they can still Tag him.

Which is why I've repeatedly said, that the reason McD put the #1 on him was to garner his market value. If it's too steep, they'll let him go for the 1, otherwise, they'll keep him. Not to mention, it might put BM in his place by the LACK of offers coming in for him. That may just be the wakeup call that McD is hoping for, but couldn't do on his own. Methinks McD is smart beyond his years.

A 1/3 keeps teams away, and only begs for the team to overpay.

I like how McD is sticking to his guns. Anybody that says BM isn't worth a #1 by his on the field output is simply naive.

[Nomad]

If I remember, the last time BM got in trouble, he was close to being at the his 'timeout period'. Didn't Goodell say if he stayed out of trouble for a year, then his accumulations would have disappeared and any new ones would have started at "1"?
If that's the case, you'd think the same would be true now?

If that's the case, which I don't recall this being said, the BRONCOS would be crazy to send him away if Goodell is giving him a clean slate but I don't want to see tons of money going to a headcase one incident away from that kind of suspension! Money repairs anything unless Marshall is expecting to to be paid the #1 receiver pay!!

[Lonestar]

Um excuse you. He does not need to go "regardless of what we get from him." if we don't get a top 15 (and hopefully top 10) pick then he needs to stay a Bronco. Too much production and too
good a player to trade away for anything less.

I realize that a few of Y'all can overlook all the crap he has pulled here and also in college and write it off as "well he got a hundred catches and we will be screwed without him here."

He is of NO Value to us if he is sitting in Goodells Office talking suspension or trying to weasel out of them.

Had Goodell let the original one for IIRC 3 weeks perhaps he would have learned from it and I'll bet mike and Pat kick themselves in the butt for trying o do the right thing for this immature twit.

It is past time to grow up for him.

After all he has pulled here I'd almost take a ham sandwich and Diet Coke for him.

[rcsodak]

Yea, wish someone had told McDaniels to step away from the microphone before he screwed the Broncos to feed his ego. Nothing like telling every other team in the league that you have no use for a couple players that you will be looking to trade/get compensation for, a few months later....

Sorry, but I'm not sure this thread was started with the intention of it becoming a "let's trash McD"!

Maybe if Shanny had shown some balls when it mattered the most, the franchise wouldn't be in this predicament.

Ooops! See how quickly an 'off-the-topic' post can derail a thread? :lol:

[Lonestar]

If he continues 'maturing' and performs on the field, they can still Tag him.

Which is why I've repeatedly said, that the reason McD put the #1 on him was to garner his market value. If it's too steep, they'll let him go for the 1, otherwise, they'll keep him. Not to mention, it might put BM in his place by the LACK of offers coming in for him. That may just be the wakeup call that McD is hoping for, but couldn't do on his own. Methinks McD is smart beyond his years.

A 1/3 keeps teams away, and only begs for the team to overpay.

I like how McD is sticking to his guns. Anybody that says BM isn't worth a #1 by his on the field output is simply naive.


Pretty sure unless a CBA is signed before now and next season he is still a RFA as players have to have 6 years of playing before they become UFA.

The worst case is tagging him. and IMHO that would be the worst thing we could do.

[Tned]

Sorry, but I'm not sure this thread was started with the intention of it becoming a "let's trash McD"!

Maybe if Shanny had shown some balls when it mattered the most, the franchise wouldn't be in this predicament.

Ooops! See how quickly an 'off-the-topic' post can derail a thread? :lol:

Unlike your Shanny bashing, my McD comment wasn't off topic. This thread is about what the Broncos may or my not get in return for Marshall. McDaniels rookie move in week 17 has a big bearing on the return compensation. When you tell every other GM in the league that you have no use for a guy, they are going to try and low ball you.

Now, I agree we should try and keep the thread on topic, so how about you focus on that, rather than taking digs at me or Shanahan. Just a thought.

[rcsodak]

With the way the Broncos are treating all of their valuable players this offseason, I would disagree with you. What have Doom, Kuper, and Orton done off the field NOT to deserve new contracts or be treated like one-year rentals?

These guys aren't backups and STers, they're core starters. That tells me the Broncos want to win, but don't want to pay for it.

Maybe if you wouldn't be so into deriding McD, and read up on topics, you'd know a thing or two.

McD has repeatedly said they were waiting on contracts to see what happened with the CBA.
Well, that time JUST passed, last week.
Bowlen is in oil/gas/real estate. Seems to me all three are a little dicey right now. Meaning he's probably not wanting to overpay in a year when NOBODY (sans CHI) is doing so. And last I heard, there are quite a few owners that have made their money in real estate/stocks. But I digress.

The team is in year 2 of re-establishing a once proud franchise. I'd rather they sit back and pick/choose the best players, versus grabbing, oh, say, entire defensive lines from piss poor teams. :rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

lets try to get
:focus:

[Ravage!!!]

The team is in year 2 of re-establishing a once proud franchise. I'd rather they sit back and pick/choose the best players, versus grabbing, oh, say, entire defensive lines from piss poor teams. :rolleyes:

Yeah.. gee.. where did that get us? Oh yeah.... the AFC Championship :rolleyes: :coffee:

[Ravage!!!]

We're not willing to risk the fact that he might not screw up, but we're fine with taking risks in the draft? Hell,we could end up with a player or even a couple players that might not be good to the broncos EVER. Look no further than last year.

Excellent point.....

[tsiguy96]

Unlike your Shanny bashing, my McD comment wasn't off topic. This thread is about what the Broncos may or my not get in return for Marshall. McDaniels rookie move in week 17 has a big bearing on the return compensation. When you tell every other GM in the league that you have no use for a guy, they are going to try and low ball you.

Now, I agree we should try and keep the thread on topic, so how about you focus on that, rather than taking digs at me or Shanahan. Just a thought.

so taking digs at shanahan arent allowed, but because marshall got benched for being late to his training session for his "injured" (day after he made pro bowl/100 rec) hamstring, it was a rookie mistake by mcd?

they can try and low ball all they want, doesnt mean the offer gets accepted.

[Ravage!!!]

so taking digs at shanahan arent allowed, but because marshall got benched for being late to his training session for his "injured" (day after he made pro bowl/100 rec) hamstring, it was a rookie mistake by mcd?

they can try and low ball all they want, doesnt mean the offer gets accepted.

No.. it was a rookie mistake by taking it to the media and lowering Marshall's value. That has direct considerations to the topic at hand, the negotiations with/for marshall.

[honz]

No.. it was a rookie mistake by taking it to the media and lowering Marshall's value. That has direct considerations to the topic at hand, the negotiations with/for marshall.

Wouldn't lowering his value be a good thing if they intend to keep him???

[Lonestar]

Wouldn't lowering his value be a good thing if they intend to keep him???


go figure. But then the Josh haters can't have it both ways..

[Ravage!!!]

Wouldn't lowering his value be a good thing if they intend to keep him???

So you are saying, that you think McD went to the media, to LOWER his value so that we can keep him this year????? Really? You think that was the plan??? To embarrass the player, publicly so that you can KEEP the player on the team (and in the locker room) the following season?

If it was the plan, thats an EXTREMELY SHITTY thing to do to ANY PLAYER!!! What a CRAPPY thing to do! Thats complete and Total BS bush-league CRAP if that was the plan. Thats how you completely, and TOTALLY lose a locker room. NO ONE would ever EVER trust you again as a HC if thats what the 'plan' was.

But I don't think that was the plan. I think McD did what he has shown to do.. and thats wear his emotions on his sleeve. He messed up and took the dirty laundry to the media, and while doing that.... told everyone that the relationship between McD and Marshall wasn't good. When you question a player's toughness publicly to the media like that... you are burning the relationship that will never have a marriage again.

Lets be honest. McD isn't going to keep Marshall. He's not planning on keeping marshall. The plan is to trade him away, thus not putting the highest tender on him.

[Lonestar]

Enough with blaming it all on Josh.

BM had a big hand it all of this also.

Plus name me one coach other than perhaps Dungy that did not get after his players.

[Ravage!!!]

Enough with blaming it all on Josh.

BM had a big hand it all of this also.

Plus name me one coach other than perhaps Dungy that did not get after his players.

You are missing the point. Im not saying Marshall didn't have anything to do with being benched. But marshall didn't have anything to do with the coach going to the media and putting the dirty trash out there to everyone. If you want to gloss over that, and simply ignore that rookie mistake... fine. But it was a ROOKIE mistake that will cost this team. Thats twice in two offseasons that those rookie mistakes are giving the team a hit.

[nevcraw]

You're calling NYJ's QB "pretty decent"? Didn't they just run the ball 700+ times last year because he couldn't decide which team to throw to? :confused:

I'd take Orton over Sanchez. :puke:

thank the good lordy you are not in that position.. :pray::amen:

Sanchez did awesome job considering his total experience as a starting qb, let alone in the pros.
Orton will be smudge mark in the annals of the NFL long before Sanchez is done winning ..

[honz]

So you are saying, that you think McD went to the media, to LOWER his value so that we can keep him this year????? Really? You think that was the plan??? To embarrass the player, publicly so that you can KEEP the player on the team (and in the locker room) the following season?

If it was the plan, thats an EXTREMELY SHITTY thing to do to ANY PLAYER!!! What a CRAPPY thing to do! Thats complete and Total BS bush-league CRAP if that was the plan. Thats how you completely, and TOTALLY lose a locker room. NO ONE would ever EVER trust you again as a HC if thats what the 'plan' was.

But I don't think that was the plan. I think McD did what he has shown to do.. and thats wear his emotions on his sleeve. He messed up and took the dirty laundry to the media, and while doing that.... told everyone that the relationship between McD and Marshall wasn't good. When you question a player's toughness publicly to the media like that... you are burning the relationship that will never have a marriage again.

Lets be honest. McD isn't going to keep Marshall. He's not planning on keeping marshall. The plan is to trade him away, thus not putting the highest tender on him.

No, that's not what I said. I was simply playing devil's advocate. I think the plan was to punish Marshall for showing a lack of commitment to the team and the organization. People were going to ask questions if Marshall sat out without explanation and that would have caused just as big a stir. Also, I think the plan with the tender is to keep their options open.

[honz]

You are missing the point. Im not saying Marshall didn't have anything to do with being benched. But marshall didn't have anything to do with the coach going to the media and putting the dirty trash out there to everyone. If you want to gloss over that, and simply ignore that rookie mistake... fine. But it was a ROOKIE mistake that will cost this team. Thats twice in two offseasons that those rookie mistakes are giving the team a hit.

There is absolutely nothing stopping us from keeping Marshall. Not sure how you are absolutely positive we are going to trade him or let him sign elsewhere. Have you talked to the front office personally?

[Ravage!!!]

There is absolutely nothing stopping us from keeping Marshall. Not sure how you are absolutely positive we are going to trade him or let him sign elsewhere. Have you talked to the front office personally?

Yes.. yes I have.

I'm just going by every signal given. I don't believe there is any way that McD wants Marshall here. I think that was apparent when he went to the media, I think its been apparent when marshall told the fans 'goodbye' last offseason, and.. more recently... was evident when McD only put the 1st round tender on Brandon. Telling everyone in the NFL that he's "available to take."

I don't think there has been any signs of us intending to keep him. Every sign has been to the contrary. So yeah, I feel pretty positive. Doesnt' mean I won't be wrong, but as of right now I have no reason to believe so.

[topscribe]

Enough with blaming it all on Josh.

BM had a big hand it all of this also.

Plus name me one coach other than perhaps Dungy that did not get after his players.

You're not going to change any minds because they don't want them changed. :deadhorse:
These are minds belonging to those who have never known the inside of a
professional team's locker room but they think they know how a coach should
run a team.

-----

[Elevation inc]

With the way the Broncos are treating all of their valuable players this offseason, I would disagree with you. What have Doom, Kuper, and Orton done off the field NOT to deserve new contracts or be treated like one-year rentals?

These guys aren't backups and STers, they're core starters. That tells me the Broncos want to win, but don't want to pay for it.


lol or maybe they just dont wanna kill themselves with huge contracts when there is no football next year......

and IMO orton and kuper have not yet earned a long term contract....orton is still suspect in this offense...and kuper is coming off a pretty bad year....hell kuper will be lucky to get the cash he is going to.....not to many 5th rd picks can give up 5 sacks in a year and get a raise over 2 million.....

as for dumervil...you have no idea if a long term deal isnt in the works.....so really the dumervil scenarios is hypothetical right now....none of us know whats going on there....

ther are also hundreds of RFA that have earned long term contracts but havent gotten em yet...guess all the other GM's and coaches suck to.....


the best guard(jahari evans)in the NFL hasnt even got a contract extension yet....lol

[Elevation inc]

i blame MCd for some things no doubt while he has been here, but really faulting MCd for the marshall situation???? i mean really???? how naive can people be....of course losing marshall will hurt the team he is a beast, but the reality is he is a headcase as well, thats not the mantra we want here.....if MCd allows marshall and his antics to stay, that tells the rest of the team and players they have every right to act up as well....

if marshall can be a headcase, and get paid big, why cant they.....

wake up people.....this situation was created by brandon marshall, and brandon marshall only.....

[Northman]

i blame MCd for some things no doubt while he has been here, but really faulting MCd for the marshall situation???? i mean really???? how naive can people be....of course losing marshall will hurt the team he is a beast, but the reality is he is a headcase as well, thats not the mantra we want here.....if MCd allows marshall and his antics to stay, that tells the rest of the team and players they have every right to act up as well....

if marshall can be a headcase, and get paid big, why cant they.....

wake up people.....this situation was created by brandon marshall, and brandon marshall only.....


And thats the bottom line, great post.

[Tned]

You're not going to change any minds because they don't want them changed. :deadhorse:
These are minds belonging to those who have never known the inside of a
professional team's locker room but they think they know how a coach should
run a team.

-----

I didn't realize you were a former NFL player. Now that I know, I will hold your posts in higher regard.

That said, it was ex-players that stated that what McDaniels did with Marshall (going to the press and accusing him of faking an injury) just is not done and should not be done.

[Nomad]

lol or maybe they just dont wanna kill themselves with huge contracts when there is no football next year......

and IMO orton and kuper have not yet earned a long term contract....orton is still suspect in this offense...and kuper is coming off a pretty bad year....hell kuper will be lucky to get the cash he is going to.....not to many 5th rd picks can give up 5 sacks in a year and get a raise over 2 million.....

as for dumervil...you have no idea if a long term deal isnt in the works.....so really the dumervil scenarios is hypothetical right now....none of us know whats going on there....

ther are also hundreds of RFA that have earned long term contracts but havent gotten em yet...guess all the other GM's and coaches suck to.....


the best guard(jahari evans)in the NFL hasnt even got a contract extension yet....lol

Yeah, I believe people started running out of bullets so they started throwing in other things such as other players contracts but like you said and I said the NFL as a whole isn't really wrting big contracts at the moment and I'll give it until the start of TC before wondering why!! Then again you may have a point about teams not wanting to pay if there is no NFL next year!!



i blame MCd for some things no doubt while he has been here, but really faulting MCd for the marshall situation???? i mean really???? how naive can people be....of course losing marshall will hurt the team he is a beast, but the reality is he is a headcase as well, thats not the mantra we want here.....if MCd allows marshall and his antics to stay, that tells the rest of the team and players they have every right to act up as well....

if marshall can be a headcase, and get paid big, why cant they.....

wake up people.....this situation was created by brandon marshall, and brandon marshall only.....

It has more of the hate for McDaniels than anything! I can honestly say I don't know how or what it takes to run an NFL team and I'd beat my house 99% of the people here don't either. Just because I played HS ball doesn't mean shit to knowing the business, though I understand the game!

RC wrote that after a year, Goodell said he'd forgive Marshall if he caused no trouble and give him a clean slate! I've never heard this but if it is true, I don't see why teams would pass on him though he is known to be a headcase.

[Tned]

It has more of the hate for McDaniels than anything! I can honestly say I don't know how or what it takes to run an NFL team and I'd beat my house 99% of the people here don't either. Just because I played HS ball doesn't mean shit to knowing the business, though I understand the game!

No offense, but the bolded part of your post above is asinine. Yes, there are some people that hate McDaniels and it clouds every one of their posts. Just like there are some people that hate Shanahan, Cutler, Marshall, etc. and it clouds everyone one of their posts. However, these zealots are the exception, not the rule.

Most of us, whether critical of McDaniels or anyone else, base it not on hate or love for an individual, but opinions and concerns over actions/decisions.

I have stated many times all the good things McDaniels has done since coming here, and I have also posted about some of the not so good things.

There are some people on here, and it has been very evident the last few days, that believe that you have to tear down other posters in order to 'prove' they are wrong. Rather than just debating our opinions, some feel it necessary to call people that don't agree with them 'haters' or 'illogical' and such.

To those that feel it necessary to do so, why do you feel you hae to tear down or 'discredit' posters that hold contrary opinions to your own?

As to the criticism of McDaniels on this particular subject. McDaniels got bad press pretty universally among NFL media types, which is made up of a lot of ex-players and ex-front office people, for publicly accusing Marshall of faking an injury. This was something that the ex-players said is never done and should never be done.

In practical terms, all it did was burn the bridge in terms of any chance of Marshall returning, which in turn lowers his trade value, because other teams know that McDaniels has no intention of keeping him.


RC wrote that after a year, Goodell said he'd forgive Marshall if he caused no trouble and give him a clean slate! I've never heard this but if it is true, I don't see why teams would pass on him though he is known to be a headcase.

I for one have never heard this before and find it very hard to believe that Marshall's slate would be wiped clean.

[Lancane]

I find it kind of funny that so many are blasting Marshall for his off the field issues, particularly in regards to the domestic violence, because another beloved Bronco receiver was busted for domestic violence, yet the fans gave him a chance above and beyond, and like Marshall he is in the NFL record books...the answer to who that is? Rod Smith...

I believe too many fans buy into what the coach of an organization or others with ties to an organization say more then anything. And the media is no help at all, especially with the dimwits in Denver. Since Schefter left, Denver has some of the worse coverage by local media of almost any major NFL city. So between the two, fans are just too eager to believe in the worst of someone and not the best...yet when the coach makes a monumental mistake, one that makes him the joke of the league, then they back him...or some do.

Marshall is without a doubt a top ten talent, McDaniels would be utterly stupid to not get equal value or keep him. If they really want to trade him, signing him to a contract and having him have another Pro-Bowl year would raise his stock even higher.

[claymore]

You cant have a player like Marshall in a dick-tator-ship ( :D ). Marshal needs a charismatic leader that he respects.

JMCD has a long way to go before he is that guy.

[Nomad]

You cant have a player like Marshall in a dick-tator-ship ( :D ). Marshal needs a charismatic leader that he respects.

JMCD has a long way to go before he is that guy.

Is that why he had problems with Shanahan too! Mcdaniels has done some boneheaded things but it seems the organization as a whole feels this way about Marshall. But it's always Mcdaniels and not the players which I find asinine!!

[Lancane]

You cant have a player like Marshall in a dick-tator-ship ( :D ). Marshal needs a charismatic leader that he respects.

JMCD has a long way to go before he is that guy.

Well, I will not put all the blame on McDaniels...it would be untrue and unfair to do so. But with that said, he has proven 'no matter what the koolaid chuggers believe', to be a very immature coach in the aspects of running an organization, as has Xanders in his own right. And truth be told, Bowlen will only accept so many excuses before he makes a decision that will rectify the issue, and I believe McDaniels knows that. I already posted that Bowlen was likely to tie McDaniels hands somewhat this off-season, and I believe we are seeing some of that. Orton is yet to get a contract, Marshall is yet to be traded and I would bet money that Bowlen is holding Xanders hand and Xanders, McDaniel's hand.

I doubt that McDaniels liked the fact that Bowlen said he would like a top-shelf quarterback to the Denver Media, nor that he wants to keep Marshall, though he did say "If it could be worked out", but remember that Bowlen was reported to be going senile last off-season after the Cutler Debacle, and I am pretty sure he was none to happy about that. I think right now we have two powers Owner vs Head Coach on some prime issues, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I would not be surprised one bit if Marshall was offered a lesser pick then a top ten and Bowlen matches the offer.

[claymore]

Is that why he had problems with Shanahan too! Mcdaniels has done some boneheaded things but it seems the organization as a whole feels this way about Marshall. But it's always Mcdaniels and not the players which I find asinine!!Im only speaking on the field stuff. A good portion of NFL players are dooshbags off the field, just like the rest of us.

[Tned]

I find it kind of funny that so many are blasting Marshall for his off the field issues, particularly in regards to the domestic violence, because another beloved Bronco receiver was busted for domestic violence, yet the fans gave him a chance above and beyond, and like Marshall he is in the NFL record books...the answer to who that is? Rod Smith...


This has been talked about a lot over the years, both in regards to Marshall and other players. Rod did get into trouble, but as I understand it he manned up, admitted he screwed up and not only didn't get into trouble again (in terms of domestic violence), but also worked to teach others (in and out of the NFL) about how bad domestic violence is.

Everyone makes mistakes, and domestic violence is one of the worst, but the key is whether or not you learn from your mistakes. All indications were that Rod did learn from his and worked hard not only to not cross that line again himself, but also to make sure others didn't cross that line.

[claymore]

Well, I will not put all the blame on McDaniels...it would be untrue and unfair to do so. But with that said, he has proven 'no matter what the koolaid chuggers believe', to be a very immature coach in the aspects of running an organization, as has Xanders in his own right. And truth be told, Bowlen will only accept so many excuses before he makes a decision that will rectify the issue, and I believe McDaniels knows that. I already posted that Bowlen was likely to tie McDaniels hands somewhat this off-season, and I believe we are seeing some of that. Orton is yet to get a contract, Marshall is yet to be traded and I would bet money that Bowlen is holding Xanders hand and Xanders, McDaniel's hand.

I doubt that McDaniels liked the fact that Bowlen said he would like a top-shelf quarterback to the Denver Media, nor that he wants to keep Marshall, though he did say "If it could be worked out", but remember that Bowlen was reported to be going senile last off-season after the Cutler Debacle, and I am pretty sure he was none to happy about that. I think right now we have two powers Owner vs Head Coach on some prime issues, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I would not be surprised one bit if Marshall was offered a lesser pick then a top ten and Bowlen matches the offer.
Marshall is a kid who is suddenly rich, and famous, and has a huge head. I expect him to act like an ass. I dont like it, but it comes with the territory.

He will never conform to JMCD's patriot way.

[Lancane]

Is that why he had problems with Shanahan too! Mcdaniels has done some boneheaded things but it seems the organization as a whole feels this way about Marshall. But it's always Mcdaniels and not the players which I find asinine!!

Marshall is not the only professional football player to have issues, actually we would be hard pressed to make a list of active or past NFL players whom were perfect on or off the field, or close to. Rod Smith had his fair share of off the field issues, look at Jake Plummer, Michael Irving, Randy Moss and the list could continue for a lengthy debate. Dez Bryant who everyone has us taking in the current mock drafts, if we trade Marshall has many questions regarding his behavior and likewise issues. Not too long ago, several Denver fans were sounding off that we should get Michael Vick to be our starting quarterback...

Marshall demanding to be traded, I believe is what sparked some fans to wanting him out, beyond the issues or overhype of certain slandering reports made by the media, all it did was intensify the issue. But it is neither completely Marshalls' nor McDaniels' fault.

[Lancane]

This has been talked about a lot over the years, both in regards to Marshall and other players. Rod did get into trouble, but as I understand it he manned up, admitted he screwed up and not only didn't get into trouble again (in terms of domestic violence), but also worked to teach others (in and out of the NFL) about how bad domestic violence is.

Everyone makes mistakes, and domestic violence is one of the worst, but the key is whether or not you learn from your mistakes. All indications were that Rod did learn from his and worked hard not only to not cross that line again himself, but also to make sure others didn't cross that line.

Rod was also far more mature at the time of his domestic violence, where as Marshall is still fairly young. We tend to forget that these athletes are human because of what they do for a living, then we demand better of them. Luckily it is not that way for Hollywood or several blockbuster films would have been flops simply because the idiocy of particular actors. Too bad we don't demand better of the politicians and others, such as bankers who have more to do with our lives then the athletes we watch on Sundays.

;)

[claymore]

In all fairness to Brandon Marshall, maybe Rod Smiths wife reacted to violence better than Marshall's girl did.

What Im saying is that, maybe it only took Smith one act of violence, vs it taking Marshall multiple acts of violence.

[CoachChaz]

In all fairness to Brandon Marshall, maybe Rod Smiths wife reacted to violence better than Marshall's girl did.

What Im saying is that, maybe it only took Smith one act of violence, vs it taking Marshall multiple acts of violence.

Yeah, that's it. It the woman's fault for letting him get away with it, thus making him think it was okay.

[claymore]

Yeah, that's it. It the woman's fault for letting him get away with it, thus making him think it was okay.

Rod Smiths wife was more "coachable".

[Lancane]

In all fairness to Brandon Marshall, maybe Rod Smiths wife reacted to violence better than Marshall's girl did.

What Im saying is that, maybe it only took Smith one act of violence, vs it taking Marshall multiple acts of violence.

Not exactly a good point Claymore, but we as individuals and as fans only get what the media reports on such happenings. It is quite possible that Marshall's girlfriend was abusive in some manner and he crossed the line, that is not unheard of. Fact is that no team in this league has roster without someone previously in trouble for the same thing or close to similar. But right now fans are making it a bigger deal then it is, likely because of preception and because Marshall demanded a trade; if he had said he he wanted to be a Bronco forever, it likely would not be blown out to the what it is now...

[CoachChaz]

Not exactly a good point Claymore, but we as individuals and as fans only get what the media reports on such happenings. It is quite possible that Marshall's girlfriend was abusive in some manner and he crossed the line, that is not unheard of. Fact is that no team in this league has roster without someone previously in trouble for the same thing or close to similar. But right now fans are making it a bigger deal then it is, likely because of preception and because Marshall demanded a trade; if he had said he he wanted to be a Bronco forever, it likely would not be blown out to the what it is now...

I'll disagree by saying that it's a big issue because Goodell and the NFL have made it a big issue. If Marshall slapped women around without any recourse from the NFL...most people wouldnt care, as long as it never got him serious jail time. But since his history of ignorant actions could lead to him missing game time...people suddenly care. Quite sad if you think about it...on all levels.

But...that's the state of the NFL and the world in general today. Our heroes and celebrities are merely a reflection of society in general.

[T.K.O.]

Rod Smiths wife was more "coachable".

oh man.....you better hope alot of people miss that post or you're gonna be a busy boy splainin' yourself.
maybe brandon hits like a girl....
and rod "put some stank on it":eek:

[Nomad]

Marshall is not the only professional football player to have issues, actually we would be hard pressed to make a list of active or past NFL players whom were perfect on or off the field, or close to. Rod Smith had his fair share of off the field issues, look at Jake Plummer, Michael Irving, Randy Moss and the list could continue for a lengthy debate. Dez Bryant who everyone has us taking in the current mock drafts, if we trade Marshall has many questions regarding his behavior and likewise issues. Not too long ago, several Denver fans were sounding off that we should get Michael Vick to be our starting quarterback...

Marshall demanding to be traded, I believe is what sparked some fans to wanting him out, beyond the issues or overhype of certain slandering reports made by the media, all it did was intensify the issue. But it is neither completely Marshalls' nor McDaniels' fault.

The issue is what happens if/when he does it again. Yeah, we all have been through our trials and errors but I guarantee I learned my first time but Brandon seems to have been on the police blotter and in Goodells office since being in the league. I'm still no saint but I will never screw up like I did 18 yrs ago. And we're talking about Brandon Marshall and no other player.

I believe if the BRONCOS were guaranteed Marshall would never have another issue detrimental to the team ie half a season suspension, Bowlen, Xanders, and McDaniels would make sure Marshall was given a big contract. I like Marshall unlike the other guy that was traded and yes McD's done his boneheaded things but I want a player on my team who is reliable, right now Marshall is a BIG ? and I see the organization feels the same way! Beating women is pretty cowardly though!!

[T.K.O.]

i know we have "heard it all before" but i just wanted to point out that both mcD and marshall have said since the "benching" that they have moved on and that its definately possible for marshall to be back next season .
could be fluff,could be truth....
here's what brandon said last about the issue.....
And now Marshall says that he was in the wrong all season long, saying his actions were "unprofessional," and is willing to do whatever it takes to stay in Denver."Last year I handled things totally wrong," Marshall said. "I just looked at the business side of things and took things too personally. This year I'm going to remove myself from the situation and let the Broncos decide the direction we're going to go in as an organization."It would make sense that Marshall was acting out because he took the lack of a new contract as a slap in the face and was unable to separate business from the football field, as has been the case with many players over the years.If that is the case, it's certainly something that he could have learned to deal with and may be the best team player in the entire league next season. Really, there's no way for us on the outside to know.The one person who does know, however,

[Lancane]

The issue is what happens if/when he does it again. Yeah, we all have been through our trials and errors but I guarantee I learned my first time but Brandon seems to have been on the police blotter and in Goodells office since being in the league. I'm still no saint but I will never screw up like I did 18 yrs ago. And we're talking about Brandon Marshall and no other player.

I believe if the BRONCOS were guaranteed Marshall would never have another issue detrimental to the team ie half a season suspension, Bowlen, Xanders, and McDaniels would make sure Marshall was given a big contract. I like Marshall unlike the other guy that was traded and yes McD's done his boneheaded things but I want a player on my team who is reliable, right now Marshall is a BIG ? and I see the organization feels the same way! Beating women is pretty cowardly though!!

Cowardly or not, even men get abused in this day and age. Is it right? No...even arguments between spouses can lead to domestic violence and likewise charges in some states. Some people just have ill-fated luck with such things, whether it be right or wrong. But these kids are human, in a human society where if you have enough money you walk free, if your poor...well your arse is toast. Our basic morals have been corrupted, partially because of restriction and in other cases because for some it has been accepted, I know it is crap...but true none the less.

[Traveler]

I will repeat this again, if the maroon can not stay out of trouble when he is on a $400k contract then WHY WOULD you think he will be more responsible on a $9,000,000.00 Plus per year contract

That folks is throwing good money after bad.

This is exactly where I am on the BM situation. While he is a top ten WR, the kid is just one misstep away from another suspension. You just don't commit guaranteed money to anyone in this position.

This whole idea that JCMcD is somehow to blame is absurd IMO. While I don't fully agree with everything JMcD has done, his handling of Marshall has been first rate. No rookie coach missteps. Almost everything he's done concerning BM has been a reaction to BM's immaturity/stupidity, not vice-versa.

I wholly disagree with Tned when has says that the coach publically accused Marshall of faking an injury. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Marshall who publically stated that he wasn't playing the final game because he feared his injury was too severe for him to play in a game that his team mates need him the most.

McDaniels comment was that there were others on the team that had injuries worse than Brandon's who were playing in the upcoming game. Facts are, Brandon quit on his team mates, pulled himself from the game, and was late for treatment on said injury.

Josh did what was necessary to show BM and the team that this behavior won't be tolerated.

Knowing all this, I refer back to Jrwiz's question:

Why would you pay a player like this millions in guaranteed money when he can't behave himself making much less?

Brandon is a good player, and good players get replaced all the time. He is not the next Jerry Rice or someone that can take over a game and elevate the play of his team.

Truth be told, my guess is that he'll be playing for us this season and we'll get nothing for him when he leaves in 2011 unless we franchise him. The only benefit is that we may not be saddled with his contract guarantees if we were to sign him long term and he screws up again.

[Nomad]

Well said Traveler!!

[T.K.O.]

the biggest problem here is that the team is in a tough spot.marshall is worth 7-10 mil a year by league standards (based on production) but his off-field issues have left him 1 incident away from a likely lengthy suspension.
the broncos offered him a multi-year deal at about 9.5 mil a year last summer.
he declined,sighting a lack of big "up front" money.
well now the team has to consider the" actions detrimental to the team" this past season as well as a possible lockout.
so its highly unlikely that they will "sweeten' the pot" this year.
the only thing that i see that will keep marshall here is the fact that other teams have the exact same issues to consider.

[xzn]

If I could rub a genie out of a lamp BM would stay here, find peace within himself, grow-up and become a model citizen while helping the Broncos win a couple of titles on his way to Canton. :salute:

Unfortunately, it is more likely that he will slowly devolve into a modern day TO as the trail of disrupted teams he has affected is left behind him like a snail's slime trail. :rolleyes:

I just hope that however it works out it is for the long term best interest of all Broncos fans and petty egos on all sides don't ruin it for us!

[topscribe]

I didn't realize you were a former NFL player. Now that I know, I will hold your posts in higher regard.

That said, it was ex-players that stated that what McDaniels did with Marshall (going to the press and accusing him of faking an injury) just is not done and should not be done.

All sarcasm aside, I do not claim to know how a coach should run a team. In
fact, I claim to be among those who do not know.

So what is your juvenile point? That you do know?

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

From Adam Schefter's twitter:

Marshall also said he sitll very open to staying in Denver and would not be surprised if this process lasts until the NFL draft.

I'm assuming that the above from Brandon came from the following, as Tirico was in Denver to do the Nuggets game last night:

1/2 Colleague Mike Tirico bumped into Brandon Marshall after the wide receiver returned to Denver. Marshall said the visit was great..

[Elevation inc]

I find it kind of funny that so many are blasting Marshall for his off the field issues, particularly in regards to the domestic violence, because another beloved Bronco receiver was busted for domestic violence, yet the fans gave him a chance above and beyond, and like Marshall he is in the NFL record books...the answer to who that is? Rod Smith...

I believe too many fans buy into what the coach of an organization or others with ties to an organization say more then anything. And the media is no help at all, especially with the dimwits in Denver. Since Schefter left, Denver has some of the worse coverage by local media of almost any major NFL city. So between the two, fans are just too eager to believe in the worst of someone and not the best...yet when the coach makes a monumental mistake, one that makes him the joke of the league, then they back him...or some do.

Marshall is without a doubt a top ten talent, McDaniels would be utterly stupid to not get equal value or keep him. If they really want to trade him, signing him to a contract and having him have another Pro-Bowl year would raise his stock even higher.


rod also was a limited time period, and immediaetly rehabilitated marshall took 3 years to get a clue then proceeded to act like a child again. rod didnt quit his team either becasue of soreness in his legs and i certainly never heard stories of rod saying he hated denver and wanted a trade, i also never heard rod acting liek a chold in TC punting balls from ball boys....or escalting fights at night clubs with his friends....


i actually really like brandon, i wish he would get it together...but him leaving in a trade is no suprise at all...and it may in the long run be best for both him and denver to get a fresh start. it ceratinly isnt MCD fault, as marshalls issue stemmed way before he got here....thinking tht is asinine and stupid....

the reality is marshall created his current situation and started it back in college....he still didnt figure it out untill this last season, but then regressed...

so here we are today...yes we may lose a pro bowler diva headcase, but our players will know you dont get a big payday acting like a headcase....we get something now as oppose to next year him walking for free...

in the end this can be win win for both sides....

[Ravage!!!]

r

so here we are today...yes we may lose a pro bowler diva headcase, but our players will know you dont get a big payday acting like a headcase....we get something now as oppose to next year him walking for free...

in the end this can be win win for both sides....

No... they learn that they will get a big pay-day elsewhere. I dont' think the players he plays with, and is friends with, consider him a 'head case.'

[underrated29]

No... they learn that they will get a big pay-day elsewhere. I dont' think the players he plays with, and is friends with, consider him a 'head case.'


I agree. I dont like it when people throw that term around...

BM to me is a headsmart. Why is he a headcase? because he wants to get paid? Makes sense to me.

He does a ton of community service, charity work, kids stuff. He just has a temper. Albeit which is silly to most of us, but IMO a headcase is someone like ryan leaf, travis henry.. Someone you dont want around kids, someone who does not do charitable work.

Someone who lacks serious mental capacity. Someone who can not mature and grow up.

[Northman]

I find it kind of funny that so many are blasting Marshall for his off the field issues, particularly in regards to the domestic violence, because another beloved Bronco receiver was busted for domestic violence, yet the fans gave him a chance above and beyond, and like Marshall he is in the NFL record books...the answer to who that is? Rod Smith...

I believe too many fans buy into what the coach of an organization or others with ties to an organization say more then anything. And the media is no help at all, especially with the dimwits in Denver. Since Schefter left, Denver has some of the worse coverage by local media of almost any major NFL city. So between the two, fans are just too eager to believe in the worst of someone and not the best...yet when the coach makes a monumental mistake, one that makes him the joke of the league, then they back him...or some do.

Marshall is without a doubt a top ten talent, McDaniels would be utterly stupid to not get equal value or keep him. If they really want to trade him, signing him to a contract and having him have another Pro-Bowl year would raise his stock even higher.

Nah, the whole Rod Smith issue has come up before but we are talking about "one" incident in which Rod learned from his mistake and moved on. With Marshall, its been incident after incident.

[topscribe]

Nah, the whole Rod Smith issue has come up before but we are talking about "one" incident in which Rod learned from his mistake and moved on. With Marshall, its been incident after incident.

However, it has been about a year now since the last off-field incident, hasn't it?

-----

[Northman]

However, it has been about a year now since the last off-field incident, hasn't it?

-----

Sure, but now he has brought the drama to the lockeroom and on field. But then again, he is averaging a off the field incident once a year and its still early. :lol:

[claymore]

Sure, but now he has brought the drama to the lockeroom and on field. But then again, he is averaging a off the field incident once a year and its still early. :lol:

Hopefully him and McDaniels dont screw up his value before he shipped out. :D

[Northman]

Hopefully him and McDaniels dont screw up his value before he shipped out. :D

Amen to that.

[Elevation inc]

No... they learn that they will get a big pay-day elsewhere. I dont' think the players he plays with, and is friends with, consider him a 'head case.'

really seattle offered him his ten mil a year???? funny i havent gotten that memo yet.....:D

[Elevation inc]

I agree. I dont like it when people throw that term around...

BM to me is a headsmart. Why is he a headcase? because he wants to get paid? Makes sense to me.

He does a ton of community service, charity work, kids stuff. He just has a temper. Albeit which is silly to most of us, but IMO a headcase is someone like ryan leaf, travis henry.. Someone you dont want around kids, someone who does not do charitable work.

Someone who lacks serious mental capacity. Someone who can not mature and grow up.


lol temper is actually a sign of mentaly instability no matter how insignifigant....i have a huge temper....and have been called a headcase....i simply tell people its not my fault they are afraid of me:D

[BlueTalon]

Since this thread is about what the Broncos will accept and what they won't, I'll just throw this out there. It's obvious that negotiations are currently happening at some level between the Broncos and the Seahawks, even if it is just the Seahawks offering a proposal and the Broncos responding with "we will only accept your #6."

Someone on a Seahawks board had an idea to work around that hard-line stance. We trade our #14 back to a team like Houston or Green Bay in exchange for a low/mid-round pick and the rights to Marshall. They then use their 1st round pick to sign Marshall to the contract the Seahawks are offering, giving the Broncos a week to match or refuse. If the Broncos match, the Seahawks keeps their #14. If the Broncos don't match, they get the #20 or #23 or whatever, GB/Houston/whoever gets the #14, Seattle gets Marshall and a low/mid-round pick. And if the contract offer includes a poison pill, then the Broncos could potentially be on the hook for a huge guaranteed amount if they chose to match.

Personally, I hate the idea of poison pills, but the NFL set the precedent by allowing two poison pill contracts in 2006.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the Broncos aren't as in firm control of the situation as many here seem to think. If they completely refuse to negotiate, it could sting them in the end.

[Elevation inc]

However, it has been about a year now since the last off-field incident, hasn't it?

-----

really didnt he just quit on his team in week 15???? that was december no????

maybe i am wrong there....

[T.K.O.]

Since this thread is about what the Broncos will accept and what they won't, I'll just throw this out there. It's obvious that negotiations are currently happening at some level between the Broncos and the Seahawks, even if it is just the Seahawks offering a proposal and the Broncos responding with "we will only accept your #6."

Someone on a Seahawks board had an idea to work around that hard-line stance. We trade our #14 back to a team like Houston or Green Bay in exchange for a low/mid-round pick and the rights to Marshall. They then use their 1st round pick to sign Marshall to the contract the Seahawks are offering, giving the Broncos a week to match or refuse. If the Broncos match, the Seahawks keeps their #14. If the Broncos don't match, they get the #20 or #23 or whatever, GB/Houston/whoever gets the #14, Seattle gets Marshall and a low/mid-round pick. And if the contract offer includes a poison pill, then the Broncos could potentially be on the hook for a huge guaranteed amount if they chose to match.

Personally, I hate the idea of poison pills, but the NFL set the precedent by allowing two poison pill contracts in 2006.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the Broncos aren't as in firm control of the situation as many here seem to think. If they completely refuse to negotiate, it could sting them in the end.

wrong on all counts.....the seahawks cant negotiate with the broncos until marshall signs an offer sheet. thats where the "R" in "rfa" comes into play.
same goes for any other team in the league.
the only options other teams have is to make marshall an offer....then if marshall excepts it (signs it) the broncos have 7 days to either match the offer or take the "submitting " teams original 1st round draft pick
so yes the broncos hold all the cards,with the one exception being,if they play hardball with brandon he may not show up for camp and or play worth a damn next year

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Rod Smiths wife was more "coachable".

What do you say to a woman with two black eyes? Something like that? :laugh::beer:

[BlueTalon]

wrong on all counts.....the seahawks cant negotiate with the broncos until marshall signs an offer sheet. thats where the "R" in "rfa" comes into play.
same goes for any other team in the league.
Um, that's not what the R is about. There are no restrictions on teams talking to each other, ever. The R in RFA is a restriction on the player, who is not free to sign with any team he wants without the rights-holding team first having an opportunity to dictate some terms. Once a player has signed with a team, other teams may not talk directly with the player without the rights-holding team's permission. But any team can talk to any other team about any player at any time.

Think about it -- the Broncos would not be saying they choose not to talk to anyone about Marshall if there were some other restriction in place that prevented teams from talking to the Broncos about Marshall.

[Ravage!!!]

Those teams can talk with the player as well.. hence Marshall being in Seattle. Of course they can talk to the teams about Marshall without signing him to an offer. Its perfect for McD, all he has to do is pick up the phone.

[rcsodak]

absolutely he did. YOu would be stupid, as a player, to sign for no up-front money. Every owner in the NFL would LOVE if every player would play with no up-front money. This way, only the player is taking the risk, and NONE on the owner. Playing for no up-front money is the last thing a player should do.... especially when you are considered on of the top in the NFL. If you get hurt, the owners don't show loyalty and pay you after getting hurt.

So that wasn't really very much of an offer by the Broncos.... to be honest.

I believe it said he "sought ADDITIONAL upfront money". Meaning there WAS some guaranteed.

So let me get this straight!

You're going to tell us that <fans> wouldn't have had a canniption if McD offered him a butt-load of guaranteed money, and he went and got suspended after that? That while he was sitting on his ass at home watching Oprah, his pocket book busting at the seams, that <fans> wouldn't have been throwing a tantrum at McD for doing it!?! With EVERYTHING in his past showing he wasn't to be trusted!!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

You don't mind if I call BS, do you. :rolleyes:

Just admit to the fact that NOTHING McD does, come rain/snow/wind/hail/sun, will ever warrant any accolades from <fans>.

Good grief. :lol:

[rcsodak]

What has he done since the punting the football/pouting in camp incident last off season?

Did you happen to see his name anywhere in the wk 17 boxscore?

:confused:

[Tned]

I wholly disagree with Tned when has says that the coach publically accused Marshall of faking an injury. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Marshall who publically stated that he wasn't playing the final game because he feared his injury was too severe for him to play in a game that his team mates need him the most.

McDaniels comment was that there were others on the team that had injuries worse than Brandon's who were playing in the upcoming game. Facts are, Brandon quit on his team mates, pulled himself from the game, and was late for treatment on said injury.

Josh did what was necessary to show BM and the team that this behavior won't be tolerated.


I can only go by what the ex-players and coaches said following McDaniels public statement. I can't remember a single one defending McDaniels' statements, but instead they pretty universally said that publically questioning whether or not a player's injury was real is simply never done.

[rcsodak]

I guess my problem with yours and others thought process on this is why hold him to his incidents in the past? He was/still is a kid. Most of us have done things that we aren't proud of in our early and even mid 20's, but have learned and recovered from our mistakes.

We as fans and especially the media not being able to forgive and forget keeps old news on the front burner. ...and Shanahan's problems with Marshall weren't locker room problems as far as I know so once again we dig deep into the past to find the dirt on Brandon.

I'm bowing out of the conversation because I can tell I'm emotional about it, and also because obviously I have no say in the matter. However, I see a reoccurring problem with our Coach and his ability to relate to players. i think McDaniels has some growing up to do of his own.

These draft picks better pan out for him or his history with this franchise will be a short one IMO.

"recoccurring problem with our Coach"? I don't see him doing this with any other of the 53players (sans Sheff). Isn't it interesting how the problem child of Shanny has become the problem child of McD, and yet, ONLY McD is held to account for it?

Naivety at it's highest. :coffee:

[rcsodak]

Are you really going to give Sanchez that much grief as a rookie? Amazing. :lol:

HELL yes! I think he's a mediocre QB, and will be throughout his career. (see Leinart)

Plus, I despise everything USC. :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14527100

Before last season, according to what two sources told The Post's Mike Klis the past week, the Broncos offered Marshall a multiyear contract at $9.5 million per season. Marshall turned down the offer because he sought additional upfront money.

[rcsodak]

Unlike your Shanny bashing, my McD comment wasn't off topic. This thread is about what the Broncos may or my not get in return for Marshall. McDaniels rookie move in week 17 has a big bearing on the return compensation. When you tell every other GM in the league that you have no use for a guy, they are going to try and low ball you.

Now, I agree we should try and keep the thread on topic, so how about you focus on that, rather than taking digs at me or Shanahan. Just a thought.

Didn't make a "dig" at you OR Shanny, tned.

How you derived that, is beyond my grasp.

And I was one of the biggest shanny supporters he had. Look back if you'd like. But I'm ALSO able to look back, realistically, and see where he screwed the pooch while riding on his laurels.

I don't happen to like how he handled Jake. That move didn't help this team one iota, imo.

I hope he does great in Washington.

BOT. :cool:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I also posted this in another Marshall thread:

I am not signed up for NFL Insider - if anyone on here is, please post article - thanks

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/featu...tures%2frumors

NFL Insider Adam Schefter with an update on Broncos WR.

[rcsodak]

go figure. But then the Josh haters can't have it both ways..


Funny thing, but if BM is such a great PERSON, a NO-RISK PLAYER, then why aren't 31 teams busting down the door for his CHEAP(1st rd) services?

All because McD benched him for 1 game?

LMAO!!!!! :laugh:

[xzn]

Here's the text of the ESPN Insider report

As first reported by NFL Insider Adam Schefter, Brandon Marshall was in Seattle on Saturday for a visit. This one will take some time to develop, but it does make sense given that Jedd Fisch -- with whom Marshall has a relationship -- is the O-coordinator in the Emerald City. However, one possible issue here: if the Seahawks do tender an offer sheet to Marshall and the Broncos don't match, Seattle would send the sixth overall pick in the draft to Denver.

So who makes a little more sense? As Schefter tweeted on Sunday, the Bengals are having internal discussions on the matter. Cincy had been one of the teams we'd linked to Marshall for quite some time, but as is widely known, Mike Brown despises giving up first-rounders in trade (the team has picked in the first round every year since 1989). Bengals beat writer Joe Reedy tweeted on Sunday that "the rumors on Marshall to the Bengals are mostly a smoke screen" to drive up the price tag. But given the current first-round price tag, the Jets have also re-emerged as a possibility in the buzz we heard last week. There's still a need for a legit No. 1 WR, and Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum is not opposed to pulling off big deals using the No. 29 overall pick.

Here's Schefter on the possibility of a trade for a lesser pick, and NFC West blogger Mike Sando with a vote against Seattle making the move, even for their second first-rounder:



Adam Schefter
Not gonna happen

"Some have suggested that Denver and Seattle could enter into negotiations regarding different compensation than the sixth overall pick, but the Broncos believe they tendered Marshall at the first-round pick level for a reason: they expect to get it in return, and they are prepared to bring back Marshall for next season if they don't."



Mike Sando
Marshall not a match for rest of the team

"I think the price would be too high in the absence of other bidders and given the risks associated with Marshall. Seattle should also consider the potential value of a high first-round choice in what appears to be a strong draft."

[Ravage!!!]

Heres how I see it going down, and working out.

With only one team showing definite interest, and 'talk' of a couple others (cinci, NE, Jets)...there isn't much interest in trading for Marshall.

But Marshall wants out, and McD want him out.. and everyone knows this. But McD has to try and make it appear as though he's willing to play with Marshall this season if 'need be.' Thats what we go with all the "yes things have worked out, yes things are great, I can see Marshall playing here next season" talk has been all about. Damage control to try and raise value. You don't get good value if everyone knows you hate one another, and will take a bag of balls for the guy (exaggerated of course).

Seattle isn't going to give up the 6th pick. McD knows it, Seattle knows it, everyone knows it. So realistically, the goal for Denver is to get the 14th pick. Just as I said in earlier posts, if you want to get value for your commodity, you don't start negotiations out low. You start high. Right now, the 'starting high' is the Broncos making it clear that nothing less than an offer sheet will get Marshall (infering that Seattle would have to give up the 6th pick). Asking for the 14th will only get the 'hawks to try and start off lower, with no room for the Broncos to negotiate. So the Broncos are asking high, and giving themselves room to work 'down.'

But, the Seahawks know all of this. Its not like they are new to the NFL and have never seen a bluff before. Its not like they don't have their sources, and/or dont' watch the news. I don't believe for a moment that McD wants Marshall here another season. Everything has pointed in the direction of wanting him gone. Marshall put in his blog last off-season a goodbye to the fans. The benching in the final week of the season. NOTHING has really been shown that these two (Marshall and McD) will ever get along. I'm not buying into the sweet talk during the off-season interviews. They come across as contrived and fake. Almost to the point of being laughably obvious.

McD just wants to move on while getting some form of decent value for Marshall. Seattle has 3 of the top 38 picks. But we know that 6 is just flat out of the question. So Denver will be trying to negotiate for the 14th (what they truly believe is the value, and not the 6th), and Seattle for the 38th (because they know, as everyone else, that McD doesn't want Marshall here).

This might not happen until the draft... but I think we end up trading Marshall to Seattle for their 2nd round pick(38th) in 2010 and something in 2011 (another second rounder?). I just don't see McD wanting Marshall on the team, and in the end takes the absolute best deal that can be worked out. No way its the 6th, and I think Seattle holds off on the 14th because they know thats what McD is really after.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Are you sure Marshall wants out?????

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

# Marshall also said he sitll very open to staying in Denver and would not be surprised if this process lasts until the NFL draft. about 10 hours ago via web

# 1/2 Colleague Mike Tirico bumped into Brandon Marshall after the wide receiver returned to Denver. Marshall said the visit was great... about 10 hours ago via web

[Tned]

Are you sure Marshall wants out?????

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

# Marshall also said he sitll very open to staying in Denver and would not be surprised if this process lasts until the NFL draft. about 10 hours ago via web

# 1/2 Colleague Mike Tirico bumped into Brandon Marshall after the wide receiver returned to Denver. Marshall said the visit was great... about 10 hours ago via web

There is a lot of posturing going on for a variety of reasons. I don't think we can take much of what any of them (McDaniels, Marshall, Bowlen) are saying at face value.

McDaniels says he would be happy to have Marshall back, because he is trying to get his leverage back and not continue to look desperate to move Marshall.

Marshall is trying to counter the charges against him of not being a team player and doesn't want to look like a "I'm demanding a trade" type player.

Bowlen, is the closest I would come to believing. I think he would be happy to have Marshall back, because he knows that there have been few, if any, WR's in his 26 years of ownership that are as physically talented as Marshall. On the flip side, he is also a smart enough business man to know that if they do have to part ways with Marshall, he wants the most in return, and therefore knows the Broncos can't look desperate to move him.

[Northman]

"Some have suggested that Denver and Seattle could enter into negotiations regarding different compensation than the sixth overall pick, but the Broncos believe they tendered Marshall at the first-round pick level for a reason: they expect to get it in return, and they are prepared to bring back Marshall for next season if they don't."




Told you.........

[Denver Native (Carol)]

There is a lot of posturing going on for a variety of reasons. I don't think we can take much of what any of them (McDaniels, Marshall, Bowlen) are saying at face value.

McDaniels says he would be happy to have Marshall back, because he is trying to get his leverage back and not continue to look desperate to move Marshall.

Marshall is trying to counter the charges against him of not being a team player and doesn't want to look like a "I'm demanding a trade" type player.

Bowlen, is the closest I would come to believing. I think he would be happy to have Marshall back, because he knows that there have been few, if any, WR's in his 26 years of ownership that are as physically talented as Marshall. On the flip side, he is also a smart enough business man to know that if they do have to part ways with Marshall, he wants the most in return, and therefore knows the Broncos can't look desperate to move him.

Last night ESPN did the Nuggets/Portland game - Tirico being one of the announcers. Brandon was at the game. Somehow, they had a conversation, and I am not sure if Brandon had to state what he did to Tirico.

[JDL]

Told you.........

Seattle has another 1st rd pick... just saying.

[Northman]

Seattle has another 1st rd pick... just saying.

Lol,

Forgive me if i give a larger amount of merit to Shefter than some dude on a internet forum.

[Tned]

Lol,

Forgive me if i give a larger amount of merit to Shefter than some dude on a internet forum.

Schefter said on Twitter that BF is one of his main sources for Broncos tips and commentary...

[topscribe]

really didnt he just quit on his team in week 15???? that was december no????

maybe i am wrong there....

That is why I specified off-field incident. In other words, the law.

Team conduct definitely is another factor, but not what I alluded to.

-----

[T.K.O.]

mcD put up with his "antics" last year and played him to the tune of 101 catches ,over 1000 yds and 10 td's.....why would anyone think he would be willing to just "kick him to the curb" ?
marshall will be a bronco (maybe not the happiest bronco) next year if the fo does'nt get good value via the first rnd tender.
in fact if the offer is reasonable and/or the pick is too low .they will match and keep him anyway.
its pretty easy...we are letting marshall test the market.
brandon already said he see's a very real possibility that he remains a bronco.
these are the people directly involved.everything else is speculation on the part of fans and media folks trying to create drama.:salute:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I just want it to be done with. We own his ass. If we don't get what we want, he stays. Then we franchise his ass if need be in 2011. Denver holds all leverage. I personally want him gone, but he won't be given away.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

No truth to the rumor that the Seahawks traded #15, Seneca Wallace, to free it up for WR Brandon Marshall.

[rcsodak]

thank the good lordy you are not in that position.. :pray::amen:

Sanchez did awesome job considering his total experience as a starting qb, let alone in the pros.
Orton will be smudge mark in the annals of the NFL long before Sanchez is done winning ..
Oh, I get it.

Orton doesn't get any credit for any wins last year...."it was the defense, stupid!"

But sanchez does, while the team runs amok on the league for 700+ carries!

Gotcha. :rolleyes:

Guess we'll see, won't we. :lol:

[Tned]

Oh, I get it.

Orton doesn't get any credit for any wins last year...."it was the defense, stupid!"

But sanchez does, while the team runs amok on the league for 700+ carries!

Gotcha. :rolleyes:

Guess we'll see, won't we. :lol:

I thought this thread was about compensation for Marshall? :confused:











You know I had to do it!! ;)

[rcsodak]

I for one have never heard this before and find it very hard to believe that Marshall's slate would be wiped clean.

Well, then, tned, SURELY I must be lying! :rolleyes:

I'll look for it when I have a faster connection.

In the meantime, for your viewing pleasures....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Z2r6-ZH0E

[Tned]

Well, then, tned, SURELY I must be lying! :rolleyes:


You earn your user title on a daily basis... :salute:

I never said you were lying. I said that I had not see that. I for one hope your right, as it will help Marshall's next team ;), but don't remember ever seeing a statement to that effect.

[rcsodak]

No... they learn that they will get a big pay-day elsewhere. I dont' think the players he plays with, and is friends with, consider him a 'head case.'

LMAO!

Yea...that's why "players he plays with" told McD to not let him suit up for the last game.

He's considered by almost EVERY player/HC/GM in the NFL to be a "head case"!

What rock have you been hiding under for the last 3+yrs? :laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

LMAO!

Yea...that's why "players he plays with" told McD to not let him suit up for the last game.

He's considered by almost EVERY player/HC/GM in the NFL to be a "head case"!

What rock have you been hiding under for the last 3+yrs? :laugh:

where have you been? That story has been refuted time and time again. There is no fact to it :coffee:

[rcsodak]

i thought this thread was about compensation for marshall? :confused:











You know i had to do it!! ;)

a.d.d.

:d

[Tned]

a.d.d.

:d

Hey, don't be making fun of my Arkansas Dimwitedness Disorder (ADD)!!!! :mad:

[rcsodak]

where have you been? That story has been refuted time and time again. There is no fact to it :coffee:

link

[Northman]

Schefter said on Twitter that BF is one of his main sources for Broncos tips and commentary...

Tned, please. Just stop it already. He may pass through the forum to see what people are talking about but no one here has the inside scoop like he does in the NFL. Jeez dude.

[claymore]

LMAO!

Yea...that's why "players he plays with" told McD to not let him suit up for the last game.

He's considered by almost EVERY player/HC/GM in the NFL to be a "head case"!

What rock have you been hiding under for the last 3+yrs? :laugh:

Link of the players saying this please.

If JMCD listened to players telling him to take Marshall out... He is even more of a dooshbag than I thought.

[T.K.O.]

actually if you recall,the team had a meeting specifically about "accountability" and the players did in fact go to coach and let him know that they felt "certain players" were not giving 100%.
that did have some impact on mcD's decision and he stated it at the time.
why would listening to your teams concerns make you a douchebag?
champ was qouted as saying"some punishment was needed" and i forget who else said basicallt the same thing.
when your team captains have an issue with effort by some players you had better bet the coach is going to listen.

[T.K.O.]

Champ Bailey okay with Marshall benching
Posted Tue Jan 5th by Kyle

(REUTERS photo/Rick Wilking)
Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall’s idea of “clearing the air” Monday apparently left Mile High City with a bit of unsettled dust. Champ Bailey was happy to clean it up.

Appearing on FM 104.3 The Fan Tuesday, Bailey offered objective clarity to the Marshall-McDaniels situation. His message: Marshall had it coming.

“It seemed like Brandon wasn’t doing the things necessary for every player on the team to do to make us successful,” Bailey said.

Bailey was a Broncos team captain in 2009, and it was clear he wasn’t eager to criticize his teammate of four years. His tone wasn’t that of someone placing blame or pointing fingers, but he was offering honest candor.

For instance, when asked if the punishment fit the crime, Bailey paused before saying head coach Josh McDaniels certainly had the right to do something.

“I don’t know what the punishment should have been,” said Bailey. “He (McDaniels) has the decision to make, that’s why he’s the head coach. If he feels like (Marshall’s) not giving it his all, I don’t care who you are. You gotta be punished.”

Bailey also quickly dismissed the notion that McDaniels was singling out holdovers from the Mike Shanahan regime, pointing out that he and others got along fine with the rookie coach.

“I’m one of Shanahan’s guys, and he (McDaniels) didn’t treat me like that,” said Bailey. “One thing I know is that when I go to work, I know what I put in, and I know the coaches know because I make it seen.”

Finally, despite their issues, Bailey said he would welcome Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler back to the Broncos in 2010 if that was what they desired.

“You gotta make sure they want to be on the team If they do, that’s great.”

[Ravage!!!]

I dont' know what that articl was supposed to show, but it certainly didn't show what rc stated.

[Traveler]

I can only go by what the ex-players and coaches said following McDaniels public statement. I can't remember a single one defending McDaniels' statements, but instead they pretty universally said that publically questioning whether or not a player's injury was real is simply never done.

I guess I'm missing something. McDaniels never questioned whether his injury was real. He just made the statement that others on the team were playing with more significant injuries.

Bill Parcels did this quite frequently. It's a given that Josh hasn't yet met any of the accomplishments of Parcels. I'm just using him as an example. JMcD almost the same thing as Parcels with the exception of calling BM "she."

[Ravage!!!]

actually if you recall,the team had a meeting specifically about "accountability" and the players did in fact go to coach and let him know that they felt "certain players" were not giving 100%.
that did have some impact on mcD's decision and he stated it at the time.
why would listening to your teams concerns make you a douchebag?
champ was qouted as saying"some punishment was needed" and i forget who else said basicallt the same thing.
when your team captains have an issue with effort by some players you had better bet the coach is going to listen.

Those team captains, both Bailey and Dawkins.... said that they didn't meet with McD and ask him to sit anyone down. That was said in the press conference, after the Chiefs game.

[Ravage!!!]

I guess I'm missing something. McDaniels never questioned whether his injury was real. He just made the statement that others on the team were playing with more significant injuries.

Bill Parcels did this quite frequently. It's a given that Josh hasn't yet met any of the accomplishments of Parcels. I'm just using him as an example. JMcD almost the same thing as Parcels with the exception of calling BM "she."

Tned is pointing out that several ex-NFL football players, Schlereth being one, that VERY QUICKLY jumped on that about McD's comments. He was the one that very strongly stated you do NOT do that to a player, not publicly . Schlereth has been very critical of Marshall on all accounts, and didn't say that Marshall didn't do something that deserved teh benching, but was adamant about his stance on McD's comments to the media... and several NFL players (ex NFL players) completely agreed with him.

Thats not simply making an observation from one of us lowly "never played in teh NFL or been in an NFL locker-room" (like some that try to take away from our opinions have stated) posters, thats taking the words and observations of some that have been in the NFL and in NFL locker rooms.

[WARHORSE]

Tned is pointing out that several ex-NFL football players, Schlereth being one, that VERY QUICKLY jumped on that about McD's comments. He was the one that very strongly stated you do NOT do that to a player, not publicly . Schlereth has been very critical of Marshall on all accounts, and didn't say that Marshall didn't do something that deserved teh benching, but was adamant about his stance on McD's comments to the media... and several NFL players (ex NFL players) completely agreed with him.

Thats not simply making an observation from one of us lowly "never played in teh NFL or been in an NFL locker-room" (like some that try to take away from our opinions have stated) posters, thats taking the words and observations of some that have been in the NFL and in NFL locker rooms.

Brian Dawkins will not hesitate to speak the truth, and if he feels McD did something inappropriate, rest assured he told him.

One thing I like about McD, is his willingness to bear responsibility. Those in positions of authority who dont bear responsibility will sooner or later be crushed and removed from their postion.(unless you have an army thats loyal to you and defends you, heh heh)

If you want the authority, you must accept the responsibility.

McD is willing to have his job evaluated, and has admitted hes made mistakes.

Maybe its me, but thats the kind of leadership that brings others to do the same.:coffee:


In the end, having a group of players that are all willing to bear responsibility for their words, action, play,and off the field issues......brings championships. (ahem......if they play well and have ability)
:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

Brian Dawkins will not hesitate to speak the truth, and if he feels McD did something inappropriate, rest assured he told him.

One thing I like about McD, is his willingness to bear responsibility. Those in positions of authority who dont bear responsibility will sooner or later be crushed and removed from their postion.(unless you have an army thats loyal to you and defends you, heh heh)

If you want the authority, you must accept the responsibility.

McD is willing to have his job evaluated, and has admitted hes made mistakes.

Maybe its me, but thats the kind of leadership that brings others to do the same.:coffee:


In the end, having a group of players that are all willing to bear responsibility for their words, action, play,and off the field issues......brings championships. (ahem......if they play well and have ability)
:salute:

1) That was my point, wasn't it? He denied saying anything to the coach. Thus... if he's a stand up guy ( like w believe him to be) he would have gladly admitted it. But he denied that. Thus I tend to believe Dawkins in the matter.

2) McD is willing to bear responsibility? Really? Oooooh kay

[WARHORSE]

1) That was my point, wasn't it? He denied saying anything to the coach. Thus... if he's a stand up guy ( like w believe him to be) he would have gladly admitted it. But he denied that. Thus I tend to believe Dawkins in the matter.

2) McD is willing to bear responsibility? Really? Oooooh kay

I wasnt quoting you to post an opposing view. I was in agreement with your post.



We all agree with Schlereths point I believe.

All Im saying is what my opinion of McD is.

Yes, I do believe he takes responsibility.

Does that mean he sees his mistakes in the moment hes making them, or right after?

No.

Everyone makes mistakes and then get bullheaded and stubborn when people try and point things out to them. So everyone gets a mulligan on that.

Sometimes when we're inflamed, we cant see ourselves. I mean who hasnt done that?

When we have episodes like that, a true leader, one who actually cares about those they work and interact with, will soften sooner or later to a point where they can be honest with themselves about the motives of their actions or their actions themselves.

Those who care will eventually try to look at things from the others point of view, and be understanding of it.


I think McDaniels wants to win....BAD.

I think he wants success...for him....his family....for Bowlen for trusting in him.......and for the players who play for him.

And when you want to win that badly for those reasons, because you care about people...........then having your star receiver pull his antics at the end of the season can send you over the edge.

McD didnt really have time to digest anything. They have a single week between games. Its the biggest game of the season, and youre trying to prepare your team. Then Brandon does his thing, then the reporters are in your face questioning.

McDaniels should never have questioned the injury in the media.

All Im saying is I believe he understands that.......today. I dont believe he understood that when it was all happening.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I wasnt quoting you to post an opposing view. I was in agreement with your post.



We all agree with Schlereths point I believe.

All Im saying is what my opinion of McD is.

Yes, I do believe he takes responsibility.

Does that mean he sees his mistakes in the moment hes making them, or right after?

No.

Everyone makes mistakes and then get bullheaded and stubborn when people try and point things out to them. So everyone gets a mulligan on that.

Sometimes when we're inflamed, we cant see ourselves. I mean who hasnt done that?

When we have episodes like that, a true leader, one who actually cares about those they work and interact with, will soften sooner or later to a point where they can be honest with themselves about the motives of their actions or their actions themselves.

Those who care will eventually try to look at things from the others point of view, and be understanding of it.


I think McDaniels wants to win....BAD.

I think he wants success...for him....his family....for Bowlen for trusting in him.......and for the players who play for him.

And when you want to win that badly for those reasons, because you care about people...........then having your star receiver pull his antics at the end of the season can send you over the edge.

McD didnt really have time to digest anything. They have a single week between games. Its the biggest game of the season, and youre trying to prepare your team. Then Brandon does his thing, then the reporters are in your face questioning.

McDaniels should never have questioned the injury in the media.

All Im saying is I believe he understands that.......today. I dont believe he understood that when it was all happening.


:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

[Ravage!!!]

I wasnt quoting you to post an opposing view. I was in agreement with your post.



We all agree with Schlereths point I believe.

All Im saying is what my opinion of McD is.

Yes, I do believe he takes responsibility.

Does that mean he sees his mistakes in the moment hes making them, or right after?

No.

Everyone makes mistakes and then get bullheaded and stubborn when people try and point things out to them. So everyone gets a mulligan on that.

Sometimes when we're inflamed, we cant see ourselves. I mean who hasnt done that?

When we have episodes like that, a true leader, one who actually cares about those they work and interact with, will soften sooner or later to a point where they can be honest with themselves about the motives of their actions or their actions themselves.

Those who care will eventually try to look at things from the others point of view, and be understanding of it.


I think McDaniels wants to win....BAD.

I think he wants success...for him....his family....for Bowlen for trusting in him.......and for the players who play for him.

And when you want to win that badly for those reasons, because you care about people...........then having your star receiver pull his antics at the end of the season can send you over the edge.

McD didnt really have time to digest anything. They have a single week between games. Its the biggest game of the season, and youre trying to prepare your team. Then Brandon does his thing, then the reporters are in your face questioning.

McDaniels should never have questioned the injury in the media.

All Im saying is I believe he understands that.......today. I dont believe he understood that when it was all happening.

Good post. Nothing here I can disagree with. I hope you are right. I think thats the case for most people, and I agree that McD WANTS to win. He wouldn't be in sports if he didn't. :beer:

[Lonestar]

actually if you recall,the team had a meeting specifically about "accountability" and the players did in fact go to coach and let him know that they felt "certain players" were not giving 100%.
that did have some impact on mcD's decision and he stated it at the time.
why would listening to your teams concerns make you a douchebag?
champ was qouted as saying"some punishment was needed" and i forget who else said basicallt the same thing.
when your team captains have an issue with effort by some players you had better bet the coach is going to listen.

Great post:salute:


You have to remember some fans will never get over their rocket arm "franchise" QB was traded by him and PAT therefore will never "get it".

A good HC will indeed listen to his players and even more so his Team leaders and captains.

May not do what they want but at least has to listen.

IMO Josh would have done it with or without them coming to him.

But because they did it shows that they are buying into Josh and his ways. PErhaps they wanted to send a message to those that are not or had not up to that point.

It makes no sense to have a divided locker room no basic "issue" like busting your ass, while the divas do not.

But then many hope that Josh will fail so get used to the pot shots.

[topscribe]

lol temper is actually a sign of mentaly instability no matter how insignifigant....i have a huge temper....and have been called a headcase....i simply tell people its not my fault they are afraid of me:D

I'm not the least bit afraid of you.

And as long as you don't know my address, I will remain unafraid of you. :D

-----

[Traveler]

Tned is pointing out that several ex-NFL football players, Schlereth being one, that VERY QUICKLY jumped on that about McD's comments. He was the one that very strongly stated you do NOT do that to a player, not publicly . Schlereth has been very critical of Marshall on all accounts, and didn't say that Marshall didn't do something that deserved teh benching, but was adamant about his stance on McD's comments to the media... and several NFL players (ex NFL players) completely agreed with him.

Thats not simply making an observation from one of us lowly "never played in teh NFL or been in an NFL locker-room" (like some that try to take away from our opinions have stated) posters, thats taking the words and observations of some that have been in the NFL and in NFL locker rooms.


I get the point Tned is trying to make. Where we have disagreement is that I truly believe JMcD did nothing wrong.

Just because he may or may not have broke some unwritten rule amoungst HC and player is a moot point IMO, since BM was the one who publically stated what his intentions were.

JMcD just made it official by stating why he was making the decision and also questioned the severity of the injury as compared to others on the team.

Again, this incident was reactionary on McDaniels part because BM announced publically that he was removing himself from a very important ballgame because of his injury.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Tned, your still good in my book. You too Ravage.

[Tned]

Tned, your still good in my book. You too Ravage.

As are you in mine. I'm one of those people that believes that message boards would be extremely boring if everyone had the exact same opinion.

When everyone has the same opinion, it doesn't leave much to discuss. I disagree with you on this, but it doesn't mean I don't respect and consider your opinion/point of view. :salute:

[Buff]

Touching, guys. Truly touching. Now lets all jerk each other off.

[Traveler]

Touching, guys. Truly touching. Now lets all jerk each other off.

Ewww! Disgusting! Sorry, but I don't walk on that side of the street

[Buff]

Ewww! Disgusting! Sorry, but I don't walk on that side of the street

Sorry, I got a little carried away with all of the positivity.

[T.K.O.]

ESPN.com
Archive
Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels decided to bench wide receiver Brandon Marshall for the regular-season finale after he was late to a scheduled therapy session with the Denver medical staff for treatment of a hamstring injury the team already believed he was exaggerating, according to multiple team sources.

Both Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler were not permitted on the sideline or in the locker room when the Broncos lost to the Kansas City Chiefs 44-24 on Sunday, ending their playoff hopes. It is the team's policy not to allow inactive players on the sideline or in the locker room.


AFC West blog
ESPN.com's Bill Williamson writes about all things AFC West in his division blog.

• Blog network: NFL Nation


The Broncos sent Marshall for an MRI on his hamstring after he complained of the injury during Wednesday's practice. According to team sources, the test indicated that Marshall's hamstring was healthy.

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe.

Then, as the team reviewed tape of its loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, in which Marshall dropped several passes, McDaniels mentioned that certain plays had to be made. Marshall apparently felt he was being unfairly singled out for criticism.

According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, D.J. Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

[Dreadnought]

ESPN.com
Archive
Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels decided to bench wide receiver Brandon Marshall for the regular-season finale after he was late to a scheduled therapy session with the Denver medical staff for treatment of a hamstring injury the team already believed he was exaggerating, according to multiple team sources.

Both Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler were not permitted on the sideline or in the locker room when the Broncos lost to the Kansas City Chiefs 44-24 on Sunday, ending their playoff hopes. It is the team's policy not to allow inactive players on the sideline or in the locker room.


AFC West blog
ESPN.com's Bill Williamson writes about all things AFC West in his division blog.

• Blog network: NFL Nation


The Broncos sent Marshall for an MRI on his hamstring after he complained of the injury during Wednesday's practice. According to team sources, the test indicated that Marshall's hamstring was healthy.

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe.

Then, as the team reviewed tape of its loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, in which Marshall dropped several passes, McDaniels mentioned that certain plays had to be made. Marshall apparently felt he was being unfairly singled out for criticism.

According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, D.J. Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

"We had the guys that wanted to play in the huddle,'' Orton told the Denver Post. "I appreciate coach for his decision. We're trying to win games and we're trying to build something special. And sometimes you have to make tough decisions. And I stand behind him and I know the other guys do as well.''

And again, Dawkins and Bailey denied that this actually happened. So who made up the story about "team leaders demanding they be benched." It made zero sense then and no more now.

[Tned]

And again, Dawkins and Bailey denied that this actually happened. So who made up the story about "team leaders demanding they be benched." It made zero sense then and no more now.

Even if Marshall faked the injury like McDaniels insinuated, how does publicly bashing and benching him and Scheffler help the Broncos? All it does is diminish their value in the offseason when the Broncos are going to want to get something in return for them.

It's a lose/lose situation, and I am not a fan of those. I don't buy into the chew off your nose to spite your face. I don't buy into feeding ones ego being more important than the greater good.

[shank]

Even if Marshall faked the injury like McDaniels insinuated, how does publicly bashing and benching him and Scheffler help the Broncos? All it does is diminish their value in the offseason when the Broncos are going to want to get something in return for them.

It's a lose/lose situation, and I am not a fan of those. I don't buy into the chew off your nose to spite your face. I don't buy into feeding ones ego being more important than the greater good.

maybe he didn't care about value because he planned to keep them (or at least brandon) beyond '09. maybe he was trying to make a power-play for future relations...


:devilsadvocate:

[Tned]

maybe he didn't care about value because he planned to keep them (or at least brandon) beyond '09. maybe he was trying to make a power-play for future relations...


:devilsadvocate:

If that's the case, based on former players and front office folds, he still did it wrong, but I would have a much easier time accepting it.

It's like the idiot NBA player that comes out about how he is 'demanding' a trade. All it does is put his current club at a disadvantage in negotiating a trade, and make it less likely the guy will get traded. Much better to tell the GM or coach "I'm not going to go public like so many others, but I am demanding a trade. Let's work together to get you good value and me out of this city, so it's a win/win".

[Ravage!!!]

maybe he didn't care about value because he planned to keep them (or at least brandon) beyond '09. maybe he was trying to make a power-play for future relations...


:devilsadvocate:

Yeah.. if he did do that to 'lower' the value of a player... that would be the WORST thing he could do. I know I've been a McD pessimist on a lot of his decisions and maturity, but I don't think McD is that kind of a-hole. Because thats exactly what he would be if he INTENTIONALLY lowered the value of a player on his team by publicly bashing him. That would be the fastest way, of anything else, to completely lose your locker room and to make sure no other FA signed with your team.

So Even I don't think thats the case.

[Lonestar]

I think we all KNOW that had marshall not played and had not been reported on the injury list that:


the league could fine them.

the press would have found out what had really happened.


Does anyone really think that this would not have come out sometime, thus whether Josh said it up front, or after the fact the same results come out about "losing value".

[Ravage!!!]

And again, Dawkins and Bailey denied that this actually happened. So who made up the story about "team leaders demanding they be benched." It made zero sense then and no more now.

Exactly. The article says "team sources".. but the two guys that have always been known to be the stand-up leaders on the team, the players that everyone knows will tell you out-right, Bailey and Dawkins, both said on camera that this didn't happen. So if there truly was a team source, who was it? Who made it up? Who would benefit from making a 'leak' like that up? :confused:

[Ravage!!!]

I think we all KNOW that had marshall not played and had not been reported on the injury list that:


the league could fine them.

the press would have found out what had really happened.


Does anyone really think that this would not have come out sometime, thus whether Josh said it up front, or after the fact the same results come out about "losing value".

And do you honestly think it would have had the same kind of negative news had the coach tried to keep it in house rather than going publicly with it directly to the press?

The team can keep a player from suiting up for any number of reasons without being fined. Teams have "game time decisions" all the time. Players get benched for missing meetings all the time. Thats not something new. But its something that teams keep in house.

[Lonestar]

And do you honestly think it would have had the same kind of negative news had the coach tried to keep it in house rather than going publicly with it directly to the press?

The team can keep a player from suiting up for any number of reasons without being fined. Teams have "game time decisions" all the time. Players get benched for missing meetings all the time. Thats not something new. But its something that teams keep in house.


OK do you really think this would not have come out in the wash. Especially if he was on the sidelines in a MUST win game and did not play?

Come on we ALL KNOW that BM would have said something to the press when asked.

You never ever get away with trying to cover something up.

It all comes down to Josh did something and it was because BM was a punk.

Josh had nothing but glowing comments about this kid until he started being a panty waist with the I can't practice int eh cold it hurts my lungs. format here he decided IMHO to get back at coach with h hamstring crap, when called on it after the MRI it went to hell in a hand basket.

Had BM not been a petulant immature twit, NONE of this would have happened.

Was Josh right in stating it to the world IMHO? Yes he was because we all know it would have come out in the end anyway.

GEt ahead of any fupaw and it rarely comes back to haunt you.

Josh was damned if he did and damned if he did not.

[turftoad]

OK do you really think this would not have come out in the wash. Especially if he was on the sidelines in a MUST win game and did not play?

Come on we ALL KNOW that BM would have said something to the press when asked.

You never ever get away with trying to cover something up.

It all comes down to Josh did something and it was because BM was a punk.

Josh had nothing but glowing comments about this kid until he started being a panty waist with the I can't practice int eh cold it hurts my lungs. format here he decided IMHO to get back at coach with h hamstring crap, when called on it after the MRI it went to hell in a hand basket.

Had BM not been a petulant immature twit, NONE of this would have happened.

Was Josh right in stating it to the world IMHO? Yes he was because we all know it would have come out in the end anyway.

GEt ahead of any fupaw and it rarely comes back to haunt you.

Josh was damned if he did and damned if he did not.

Josh is the punk. It was a total power play on his part. Even if Marshall exagerated the injury, I believe he was still going to play until McD pulled the power play and benched him.

And............... how do we know it would have come out into the open until McD announced it to the world.
He wanted to look like a tough guy, the I'm not taking any shit guy.
Backfired on him didn't it? So long playoff birth. Not saying we would have won that game anyway but we would have had a better chance of it.

[Lonestar]

Josh is the punk. It was a total power play on his part. Even if Marshall exagerated the injury, I believe he was still going to play until McD pulled the power play and benched him.

And............... how do we know it would have come out into the open until McD announced it to the world.
He wanted to look like a tough guy, the I'm not taking any shit guy.
Backfired on him didn't it? So long playoff birth. Not saying we would have won that game anyway but we would have had a better chance of it.

Wow such hate and discontent.

None of us will ever know if he would have played.

But I find it Ironic that BM was playing well and everything was coming up roses before he was named to the pro bowl and had his "110 "catches.

Get used to Josh being the coach because he is going to be here for a long time. IMHO

[Ravage!!!]

There you go.. josh can do no wrong.

[turftoad]

Wow such hate and discontent.

None of us will ever know if he would have played.

But I find it Ironic that BM was playing well and everything was coming up roses before he was named to the pro bowl and had his "110 "catches.

Get used to Josh being the coach because he is going to be here for a long time. IMHO

About the same as yours for Marshall JR.

BM stated himself that he was going to play until benched.

Anyway, whatever. They were both wrong. I refuse to blame it all on Marshall with the way McD has handled many personel situations.

Lombardi said (and I agree) there is not a WR in this draft that is or will be as good as Marshall.
I hope he matures and has a great career, hopefully in a Broncos uni.

[Tned]

I think we all KNOW that had marshall not played and had not been reported on the injury list that:


the league could fine them.

the press would have found out what had really happened.


Does anyone really think that this would not have come out sometime, thus whether Josh said it up front, or after the fact the same results come out about "losing value".

I'm really not sure what you are saying. What would the league have found out? What would have resulted in a fine? Marshall was on the injury report, so I am not really sure what hypothetical you are trying to create.

[Tned]

Wow such hate and discontent.

Pot/kettle much? Panty waist, twit, moron, maroon, and those are the nice ones.



None of us will ever know if he would have played.

But I find it Ironic that BM was playing well and everything was coming up roses before he was named to the pro bowl and had his "110 "catches.

Get used to Josh being the coach because he is going to be here for a long time. IMHO

You and others keep reporting this amazing coincidence about how he pulled his hamstring (or didn't as you doctors that examined him claim) right after being named to the pro-bowl.

So, just to be clear, was he the ONLY person named to the pro-bowl that was also battled an injury in week 17? Are all of them lieing twits as well?

In this 'concidence' conspiracy that you guys have built, where exactly is the 'gain' for Marshall?

Is there a chance he made up the injury? Yes, but you aren't basing it on any facts, but instead simply your hate for him.

[hotcarl]

Pot/kettle much?
Is there a chance he made up the injury? Yes, but you aren't basing it on any facts, but instead simply your hate for him.

and you are basing it on your sweet sweet love for him :whoknows: no one will ever know

we should get a new QB though :google:

[Tned]

and you are basing it on your sweet sweet love for him :whoknows: no one will ever know

we should get a new QB though :google:

Yep, no one will ever know. The fact is that ONLY Marshall knows if his hamstring was too bad to play.

As to love, I have no love for Marshall. I detest immature, punk, women beaters. However, he produces on the field, and I don't look for role models in the NFL, I look for Broncos wins.

[Lonestar]

I'm really not sure what you are saying. What would the league have found out? What would have resulted in a fine? Marshall was on the injury report, so I am not really sure what hypothetical you are trying to create.

Prior to the "blow up" BM was not on the injury report, he was cleared to play.

Not sure how he was listed on friday on the official one. But had he not played and not been listed Unless it was documented on game day he was held out for an injury they would have been fined.


Frankly I do not see the issue that everyone else has, concerning about in Josh losing value for him.


There is not a single GM, owner or HC out there that does not know what and who BM is. What all of his miscues have been since the beginning of time.

This is a small blip on the radar considering the other FUBARS that BM has done.

If he was a player with pristine character prior to this incident then it would have been a huge FUBAR on Joshes part. But we all know that BM has been flirting with another major suspension for a long time.

[Lonestar]

Pot/kettle much? Panty waist, twit, moron, maroon, and those are the nice ones.



You and others keep reporting this amazing coincidence about how he pulled his hamstring (or didn't as you doctors that examined him claim) right after being named to the pro-bowl.

So, just to be clear, was he the ONLY person named to the pro-bowl that was also battled an injury in week 17? Are all of them lieing twits as well?

In this 'concidence' conspiracy that you guys have built, where exactly is the 'gain' for Marshall?

Is there a chance he made up the injury? Yes, but you aren't basing it on any facts, but instead simply your hate for him.


Well believe what you wish, about how I feel for him cause frankly I do not care.

The facts are well published about BM and all of his issues. have been prior to coming to DEN, he had a nickname of baby TO before getting here, so it should not surprise ANYONE that he is baby to.

phemenonal talent but a head case. I will agree to that.

I think the HC is within his rights to call out any players that rare not doing their jobs.

Those players that have not bought into the scheme need to show up or leave. KISS

[Lonestar]

Yep, no one will ever know. The fact is that ONLY Marshall knows if his hamstring was too bad to play.

As to love, I have no love for Marshall. I detest immature, punk, women beaters. However, he produces on the field, and I don't look for role models in the NFL, I look for Broncos wins.

SO wins are all that matters to you?

you would be ok being the OAK raiders club ugh they were winning?

Or the Bengals?

teams loaded with character players as long as they win?

[Ravage!!!]

you forgot the WINNING part of those examples.

[Tned]

Prior to the "blow up" BM was not on the injury report, he was cleared to play.

Not sure how he was listed on friday on the official one. But had he not played and not been listed Unless it was documented on game day he was held out for an injury they would have been fined.



If he wound up not being listed on the injury report, it would have only been McDaniels playing a game. It was widely reported when he left practice with the pulled hamstring.

As to 'cleared to play', he had an MRI that showed no structural damage. You've followed sports long enough to know that a clear MRI does not mean a guy can play, especially when it comes to hamstrings and groins. Remember how many of those pulled groins from a couple years ago had clear MRI's, yet the players missed several weeks.

As I have said, only Marshall knows whether or not it was hurt too bad to play, but what is a certainty is that if McDaniels decided not to put him on the injury report it would have only been because he wanted to hammer home his position that Marshall was lieing about the injury.

[Tned]

SO wins are all that matters to you?

you would be ok being the OAK raiders club ugh they were winning?

Or the Bengals?

teams loaded with character players as long as they win?

I don't follow the Raiders or Bengals close enough to answer your question. Was I happy with all the Broncos in the late '80s and early '90s that got DUIs or domestic abuse chargers? Was I happy when Mike Anderson got suspended for his SECOND substance abuse violation? No.

However, as I said, I don't look to the NFL for my role models, so quite frankly I don't lose sleep over their personal lives. Based on what I have read, I doubt I would want to be friends with more than 5-10% of the players in the NFL.

Just like I don't agree with the politics of most Hollywood actors, I still watch their films, because I am paying them to entertain me, nothing more. Same with NFL players, I am paying them (through my purchases, etc.) to entertain me and get me excited about the possibility of a winnng season, a playoff season, and maybe at some point in the future another SB season.

What they do in their personal lives means little to me, unless like with Mike Anderson, it costs the Broncos because he misses a fourth of the season. Then I care.

As I don't care about your religious, political or sexual affiliations, or whether or not you hit your wife (or she hits you), I don't care about those things with NFL players.

[Lonestar]

If he wound up not being listed on the injury report, it would have only been McDaniels playing a game. It was widely reported when he left practice with the pulled hamstring.

As to 'cleared to play', he had an MRI that showed no structural damage. You've followed sports long enough to know that a clear MRI does not mean a guy can play, especially when it comes to hamstrings and groins. Remember how many of those pulled groins from a couple years ago had clear MRI's, yet the players missed several weeks.

As I have said, only Marshall knows whether or not it was hurt too bad to play, but what is a certainty is that if McDaniels decided not to put him on the injury report it would have only been because he wanted to hammer home his position that Marshall was lieing about the injury.

Just as I supposedly hate marshal the same could be said about you and Josh.

Guess that makes it average.;)

Let s agree to disagree on what happened. I suspect it is somewhere in the middle anyway.