Elam's exit concerns Champ Bailey

[Den21vsBal19]

Cornerback isn't happy 'proven' kicker is gone

Champ Bailey despises losing.

The Pro Bowl cornerback hates losing teammates nearly as much, even if he understands the business side of the NFL.

But in his view, no offseason move the Broncos have made affected him more than the failure to retain kicker Jason Elam, who left in free agency for the Atlanta Falcons.

"He's proven. He's done it for a long time," Bailey said Tuesday. "I'm very concerned."

Bailey said the move was the "most significant" by the team this offseason, given the number of clutch kicks and experience in a variety of weather conditions to which Elam has been exposed in 15 years.

"There better be a guy who really impresses me when camp rolls around because it'll really, really bother me then," Bailey said.

The Broncos will give unheralded Matt Prater a look as a replacement. They also are expected to meet this week with veteran Olindo Mare.

Bailey hopes there isn't a repeat of his 2000 season with the Washington Redskins. Five kickers attempted field goals that season, and they combined to miss 10 of 30, which contributed heavily to an 8-8 record.

"When you play for a long time, you understand how important the position is," Bailey said. "You lose games when you don't have one."

Bailey also didn't appear to be doing handstands regarding the team's offseason in free agency. In its biggest headline transactions, the Broncos added Bailey's brother, Boss, and another linebacker, Niko Koutouvides, plus safeties Marquand Manuel and Marlon McCree and receiver Keary Colbert.

"Other than bringing in linebackers and receivers, I don't think we've done a whole lot," Champ Bailey said. "I think what we've done is let some key guys go that really helped us out last year. We're going to need guys step up to fill in those needs."

Bailey, a team captain, also realizes anything's possible after watching the 10-6 Giants go on a hot streak to win the Super Bowl.

Still, he's not used to the fiscal restraint the Broncos have demonstrated the past couple of months.

"It's a little different. It's crazy," he said. "The (salary) cap number is high for every team this year and guys are demanding a lot of money, so you've got to go get it. It's good for the players, but as far as the team goes, you've got to just work with what you've got and what you can get."

Elam's exit concerns Champ Bailey (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/25/champ-concerned-over-loss-elam/)

[Hobe]

Cornerback isn't happy 'proven' kicker is gone

Champ Bailey despises losing.

The Pro Bowl cornerback hates losing teammates nearly as much, even if he understands the business side of the NFL.

But in his view, no offseason move the Broncos have made affected him more than the failure to retain kicker Jason Elam, who left in free agency for the Atlanta Falcons.

"He's proven. He's done it for a long time," Bailey said Tuesday. "I'm very concerned."

Bailey said the move was the "most significant" by the team this offseason, given the number of clutch kicks and experience in a variety of weather conditions to which Elam has been exposed in 15 years.

"There better be a guy who really impresses me when camp rolls around because it'll really, really bother me then," Bailey said.

The Broncos will give unheralded Matt Prater a look as a replacement. They also are expected to meet this week with veteran Olindo Mare.

Bailey hopes there isn't a repeat of his 2000 season with the Washington Redskins. Five kickers attempted field goals that season, and they combined to miss 10 of 30, which contributed heavily to an 8-8 record.

"It's a little different. It's crazy," he said. "The (salary) cap number is high for every team this year and guys are demanding a lot of money, so you've got to go get it. It's good for the players, but as far as the team goes, you've got to just work with what you've got and what you can get."


Gee, you'd think a smart, experienced guy like Bailey would know Elam was old, weak, and should be replaced! :confused:

By the way, "Who's the new kicker!" :decision:

[BOSSHOGG30]

I'm starting to think that Champ would be a good GM. Wonder if we can have a player/GM

[In-com-plete]

Champ's right! I wish I could "High 5" his comments.

I guarantee we lose one game because of our new kicker. Probably two. Without Elam this year I bet we'd have went 5-11. It's a freakin' joke Elam's a Falcon right now. A JOKE!

[BOSSHOGG30]

It would of been worth keeping Elam for another year or two, but I think we are looking torwards the future. We will have to start grooming a new kicker sooner than later. Might as well do it now while we are in the rebuilding phase. We are still a year or two maybe longer from becoming a legit team in the Super Bowl conversations.

[Rex]

Everyone will regret Elam leaving. I said it last week, I say it now, and I will say it next season.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Everyone will regret Elam leaving. I said it last week, I say it now, and I will say it next season.

Broncos tried to resign him... Elam was the one who decided to leave. I don't blame the Broncos and I don't blame Elam. Elam wanted the money and that is why he left... Nothing wrong with one of the best kickers wanting good money.

[turftoad]

Everyone will regret Elam leaving. I said it last week, I say it now, and I will say it next season.

Agreed. Every time the NEW kicker misses one inside the 40 in a close game or misses a game winner we'll be screaming for Elam.

[Ricky]

Jason wanted too much money. He will be missed, but the Broncos will move on without him.

[shank]

Broncos tried to resign him... Elam was the one who decided to leave. I don't blame the Broncos and I don't blame Elam. Elam wanted the money and that is why he left... Nothing wrong with one of the best kickers wanting good money.

see, i'm the opposite, i'm mad at both sides.

the broncos waited too long to even make contact with elam, leaving him thinking he was unwanted, and let him get into contact with other teams.

elam looked for a payday rather than realizing how loyal the brocos have been to him the last 3 or so years in wasting a roster spot because of his deminished abilities.

guess 15 years meant nothing to either side...

[Nurse Red]

It's like a bad dream... I keep expecting to wake up and have it have not happened at all. B/w Elam leaving, and Marshall's injury, it's like WHAT???

I haven't accepted either yet... the season's gonna come as a rude awakening :lol:

[broncosfanscott]

see, i'm the opposite, i'm mad at both sides.

the broncos waited too long to even make contact with elam, leaving him thinking he was unwanted, and let him get into contact with other teams.

elam looked for a payday rather than realizing how loyal the brocos have been to him the last 3 or so years in wasting a roster spot because of his deminished abilities.

guess 15 years meant nothing to either side...



Yeah, you think after 15 years they would be able to get things settled quite easily.......obviously not.

It sucks because despite is age, Elam can't be rattled in pressure moments like the Buffalo game or when a coach decided to freeze the kicker. I was hoping that he would be here to pass that on to a young kid.

[Lonestar]

It would of been worth keeping Elam for another year or two, but I think we are looking torwards the future. We will have to start grooming a new kicker sooner than later. Might as well do it now while we are in the rebuilding phase. We are still a year or two maybe longer from becoming a legit team in the Super Bowl conversations.

This will get you negged in most forums, don't you know we just reload..



see, i'm the opposite, i'm mad at both sides.

the broncos waited too long to even make contact with elam, leaving him thinking he was unwanted, and let him get into contact with other teams.

elam looked for a payday rather than realizing how loyal the brocos have been to him the last 3 or so years in wasting a roster spot because of his deminished abilities.

guess 15 years meant nothing to either side...

mikey waited to long, Pat tried to salvage it..

Place the balme where is belongs call a spade a spade..

[Den21vsBal19]

It's like a bad dream... I keep expecting to wake up and have it have not happened at all. B/w Elam leaving, and Marshall's injury, it's like WHAT???

I haven't accepted either yet... the season's gonna come as a rude awakening :lol:

We do seem to be developing a habit of shooting ourselves in the foot the last couple of years, don't we?

I do find it kind of interesting that Baiely's come out with this, I don't really recall him coming out with anything negative before....................


"Other than bringing in linebackers and receivers, I don't think we've done a whole lot," Champ Bailey said. "I think what we've done is let some key guys go that really helped us out last year. We're going to need guys step up to fill in those needs."

The overall feel of the interview is that he's pretty non-plussed by our offseaon, so far, not to mention, IMO the opening shots in preparation for negotiating a new deal, is it next season?


"The (salary) cap number is high for every team this year and guys are demanding a lot of money, so you've got to go get it. It's good for the players, but as far as the team goes, you've got to just work with what you've got and what you can get."

[lex]

Who walked that was THAT valuable other than, possibly, Elam? Im actually kind of surprised and a little disappointed at Champs comments. He deserved better than what his teammates gave him last year.

[Rex]

Jason wanted too much money. He will be missed, but the Broncos will move on without him.

Yeah, move right on to someone like Mare or an unproven rookie that they can hope breaks 75%.

Mistake.:salute:

[Tned]

Who walked that was THAT valuable other than, possibly, Elam? Im actually kind of surprised and a little disappointed at Champs comments. He deserved better than what his teammates gave him last year.

Was he and Javon friends?

[topscribe]

Jason wanted too much money. He will be missed, but the Broncos will move on without him.

I have to agree. The Broncos were kind of between a rock and a hard place.
Elam was signed for too much . . . seemingly typical of free agency these
days. The Broncos just could not justify that kind of salary.

But we're still going to miss him. Big time.

-----

[lex]

Was he and Javon friends?

I totally blanked on Javon.

[Npba900]

It would of been worth keeping Elam for another year or two, but I think we are looking torwards the future. We will have to start grooming a new kicker sooner than later. Might as well do it now while we are in the rebuilding phase. We are still a year or two maybe longer from becoming a legit team in the Super Bowl conversations.

You maybe correct. I also think Elam's departure may allow Denver to draft a few slots higher in next years draft. Especially if Denver's next kicker is a bit inconsistent and cannot measure up to Elam's clutch kicking capability. We just don't' know how the 2008 Broncos will perform with so many unknowns as to how the players and team will perform. Denver could either go 11-5 or 3-13 next year.

[TheSportsGuru]

Go ahead, flame away, but at least read the reasons why --

http://www.milehighreport.com/story/2008/3/27/8450/67814

[Ricky]

Yeah, move right on to someone like Mare or an unproven rookie that they can hope breaks 75%.

Mistake.:salute:

How is it a mistake to not over pay for a 38 year old leg that can't kick much further than 45 yards? Jason won 4 games last year and will be missed. But the team needs to look to the future, not the past.

[LRtagger]

Without Elam this year I bet we'd have went 5-11.

Damn, that actually wouldnt have been half bad...then we would have a top 7 pick and been able to select someone we actually need. And we would be coming into a more promising season with a more experienced kicker. It would have been perfect.

If we had signed Elam to a 3 year deal, he would have been ready to retire or unable to continue to kick just about the time this team is going to start being very very good. At least now we can groom a kicker who will (hopefully) start to get good the same time the rest of the team does. And we add an extra roster spot if we can pick up the right guy.

[In-com-plete]

Damn, that actually wouldnt have been half bad...then we would have a top 7 pick and been able to select someone we actually need. And we would be coming into a more promising season with a more experienced kicker. It would have been perfect.

If we had signed Elam to a 3 year deal, he would have been ready to retire or unable to continue to kick just about the time this team is going to start being very very good. At least now we can groom a kicker who will (hopefully) start to get good the same time the rest of the team does. And we add an extra roster spot if we can pick up the right guy.

I'd rather have went 8-8 and be picking 16th or wherever that would have landed us.

5-11....you just may see it this year.

[Brand]

No flames here. I agree with the article. It isn't a big deal, and the Broncos may actually be better off for his moving on.....

That's not to say I didn't enjoy watching Elam, but this is a different time and a different team. Now is the time to move on.....

[Nature Boy]

Elam was the only constant positive the Broncos had the last 10 years. I don't remember a single game where Elam didn't make the game winning kick needed to end a game. When you think about "clutch" kicking in the NFL, 2 names come to mind, Vinitari and Elam. Yes, his leg has lost some "pow" and I wouldn't bet that he'll make another 63 yarder, but there isn't a kicker I'd rather have kicking that game winner from 50 yards out.

Big deal? It's not a big deal now til his replacement misses a FG or 2 to cost us a game. So it all depends on who will be kicking for Denver in 2008.

[NameUsedBefore]

85%+ accuracy rating these past five years. Extremely clutch -- won, what, four games for us last year? Losing Elam is a big deal. Denver has never experienced not having a shitty kicking game; here's a heads up: it blows. I live in Texas so I got to watch Dallas go through a revolving door of suck at the position and it costed them a few games; it also has a demoralizing effect when your kicker misses especially on the chip shots. There's no morale boost in driving 80-yards and having your kicker miss a freebie.

Denver needs to tread lightly here because if the Broncos go into the season with a average kicker, or one who is untested in clutch situations, there could be some notches in the loss-column that could have been avoided.

[LRtagger]

Nice article. Maybe Denver can use that extra roster spot on someone that can get us into the endzone so we wont have to rely so heavily on a kicker.

[LoyalSoldier]

Nice article. Maybe Denver can use that extra roster spot on someone that can get us into the endzone so we wont have to rely so heavily on a kicker.

I get tired of the "OH WE WASTED 1 ROSTER SPOT!!!!!" My question is who could have have gotten that was so much better? I mean really if we needed a roster spot for some all pro defensive end then we could just cut one of the #7 WR or Chad Mustard since we seem to do it every years. Anyone who has skills is already taking up the roster spots they need.

I would rather have a veteran kicker who makes the kicks when you need him.

[BroncoJoe]

Like I said before - didn't want to see Jason leave, but I'm not crying over it either.

And yes. It is stupid to have three kickers on the roster.

[Rex]

I get tired of the "OH WE WASTED 1 ROSTER SPOT!!!!!" My question is who could have have gotten that was so much better? I mean really if we needed a roster spot for some all pro defensive end then we could just cut one of the #7 WR or Chad Mustard since we seem to do it every years. Anyone who has skills is already taking up the roster spots they need.

I would rather have a veteran kicker who makes the kicks when you need him.

Yeah, maybe they can pay another special teams linebacker the same money that they would not pay the one of the most consistent, clutch kickers in the NFL.

[LRtagger]

I get tired of the "OH WE WASTED 1 ROSTER SPOT!!!!!" My question is who could have have gotten that was so much better? I mean really if we needed a roster spot for some all pro defensive end then we could just cut one of the #7 WR or Chad Mustard since we seem to do it every years. Anyone who has skills is already taking up the roster spots they need.

I would rather have a veteran kicker who makes the kicks when you need him.

My point was if we put the ball in the endzone when we are supposed to, we wont need a kicker to win games.

[Krugan]

Ill get flamed for this, and im kinda leaning towards it wont happen now that his brother is here, but I believe Champ's going to want out of Denver before his contract is up.

Its just a feeling I have, he wants to be with a winner, he thought this was the place to be, but it hasnt gone that way.

Maybe with Boss here, he stays, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

[Watchthemiddle]

Ill get flamed for this, and im kinda leaning towards it wont happen now that his brother is here, but I believe Champ's going to want out of Denver before his contract is up.

Its just a feeling I have, he wants to be with a winner, he thought this was the place to be, but it hasnt gone that way.

Maybe with Boss here, he stays, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

I don't think I agree with you....especially with Boss coming here. If Champ didn't think this was a good place to play, I don't think he would have gotten his brother to play here either.

This team is just going through some stuff right now and will bounce back. Every team has to go through bad or tough times in order to get the good times again.

Winning helps...

[TXBRONC]

While I like Jason and will miss him I agree. Kickers are just not that hard to replace.

[Hoshdude7]

Elam was the only constant positive the Broncos had the last 10 years. I don't remember a single game where Elam didn't make the game winning kick needed to end a game. When you think about "clutch" kicking in the NFL, 2 names come to mind, Vinitari and Elam. Yes, his leg has lost some "pow" and I wouldn't bet that he'll make another 63 yarder, but there isn't a kicker I'd rather have kicking that game winner from 50 yards out.

Big deal? It's not a big deal now til his replacement misses a FG or 2 to cost us a game. So it all depends on who will be kicking for Denver in 2008.

Vinitari lost the game for the Colts this year. :D

[TXBRONC]

Elam was the only constant positive the Broncos had the last 10 years. I don't remember a single game where Elam didn't make the game winning kick needed to end a game. When you think about "clutch" kicking in the NFL, 2 names come to mind, Vinitari and Elam. Yes, his leg has lost some "pow" and I wouldn't bet that he'll make another 63 yarder, but there isn't a kicker I'd rather have kicking that game winner from 50 yards out.

Big deal? It's not a big deal now til his replacement misses a FG or 2 to cost us a game. So it all depends on who will be kicking for Denver in 2008.

I do remember Elam missing a game winning kick or two.

[Hoshdude7]

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story?id=09000d5d807714bd&template=without-video&confirm=true

Were not Getting Olindo Mare

[scott.475]

http://www.nfl.com/players/search?category=position&filter=kicker&conferenceAbbr=null&playerType=current&conference=ALL

That link shows all the kickers last year. Several had higher FG percentages than Jason, and look how many were able to kick from beyond 50 yards. He was 75% from 40-49 yards, 50% from 50+.

I love Jason, but I just am not overly impressed kicker accuracy from 39 yards and in. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a kicker to make every kick from 39 and closer.

[scott.475]

Denver has never experienced not having a shitty kicking game;

I'm not sure how long you've followed the Broncos, and I am not at all trying to be demeaning, but we have, indeed, had pretty crappy kicking games before. We tend to forget, because we were blessed with Jason for so long.

[scott.475]

I do remember Elam missing a game winning kick or two.

IIRC, he missed 2 in SB 32.

[TXBRONC]

IIRC, he missed 2 in SB 32.

He has missed a game winner at least once.

[Nature Boy]

But the Broncos won SB 32. So he didn't miss the game winning kick. and I still don't remember him missing a game winning kick to where we lost cause of it.

[TXBRONC]

But the Broncos won SB 32. So he didn't miss the game winning kick. and I still don't remember him missing a game winning kick to where we lost cause of it.

He has. One that I remember was back in 2004 Jason had a kick blocked in the waning seconds of a game against the Raiders.

[Nature Boy]

A block kick isn't exactly Elam's fault. And I remember that cold, snowy night the Raiders came from behind and won. They were wearing bright orange jerseys, right?

2004 is a long time ago. Let see who can remember the last time Elam didn't make the winning winning kick to win a game (blocked kick not included)?

[TXBRONC]

A block kick isn't exactly Elam's fault. And I remember that cold, snowy night the Raiders came from behind and won. They were wearing bright orange jerseys, right?

2004 is a long time ago. Let see who can remember the last time Elam didn't make the winning winning kick to win a game (blocked kick not included)?

It still counts as a missed kicked, also the kick was a low line drive.

[LoyalSoldier]

My point was if we put the ball in the endzone when we are supposed to, we wont need a kicker to win games.

Name me a team that never needed a kicker. Even Indy with their high powered offense needs a kicker every so often. Steelers game in the playoff a few years ago anyone?

[Nature Boy]

It still counts as a missed kicked, also the kick was a low line drive.

You may wanna count it and I guess in the books it's an official missed FG but I wont count it against Elam as a miss in my opinion of him. The guy who happenned to block that kick that snowy 2004 winter night was Langston Walker, a 6'8'', 350lb lineman who the Raiders used him as.

[LoyalSoldier]

Wow so we can find one game (A game where nothing seemed to be going right near the end of the game) where Elam missed a kick, but the 24+ he came through don't count?

[weazel]

I think Champ is getting frustrated. How many more seasons you see Champ in Denver? 2, 3...?

He see's players leaving, and nothing coming back in return to fill the needs. He is getting older and wants a championship, I dont see him hanging too long with a team going backwards.

[LRtagger]

Name me a team that never needed a kicker. Even Indy with their high powered offense needs a kicker every so often. Steelers game in the playoff a few years ago anyone?

You are missing the point completely. No GOOD team needs a kicker to consistantly win games for them. They just dont.

Everyone keeps saying "Oh without Elam last year we would have been 5-11 or 4-12"....well, WITH Elam we were still 7-9!!!!! 7-9 SUCKS ASS.

If we scored consistantly in the red zone, what do you think our record would have been? It would have been 9-7 at the very least. Probably better.

We dont NEED Elam to win games. We NEED a consistant red zone offense and we NEED a defense that can hold opponents to under 26.5 ppg or whatever our defense averaged giving up last year.

[Den21vsBal19]

He has. One that I remember was back in 2004 Jason had a kick blocked in the waning seconds of a game against the Raiders.
IIRC, that was a high snap that Plummer did very well with to get it down & give Elam any chance to get the kick off

[sneakers]

I think we should bring in Mare AND draft the guy out of Wisconsin.

[BOSSHOGG30]

It would be comical if Medlock was brought in somehow and he became one of the best kickers in the NFL.

[LRtagger]

I think we should bring in Mare AND draft the guy out of Wisconsin.

Mare is already off the table

[In-com-plete]

You are missing the point completely. No GOOD team needs a kicker to consistantly win games for them. They just dont.

Everyone keeps saying "Oh without Elam last year we would have been 5-11 or 4-12"....well, WITH Elam we were still 7-9!!!!! 7-9 SUCKS ASS.

If we scored consistantly in the red zone, what do you think our record would have been? It would have been 9-7 at the very least. Probably better.

We dont NEED Elam to win games. We NEED a consistant red zone offense and we NEED a defense that can hold opponents to under 26.5 ppg or whatever our defense averaged giving up last year.

You can't win every game by 10+ points. Guaranteed you'll have to win 4 or 5 close 3 point or less games.

And you're acting like 2 games is not that big of a deal. I guess it's not when you suck ass like we have for the past 21 games. But what if whoever we end up with misses kicks in 1 or 2 games that we lose by 1-3 points and we end the season 9-7, one game behind SD and one game behind that #6 seed. Then we're sitting at home watching the playoffs.

When 1 or 2 games is the difference bettween playoffs or no playoffs, it's a huge deal. HUGE!

[In-com-plete]

IIRC, that was a high snap that Plummer did very well with to get it down & give Elam any chance to get the kick off

That it was. But if you remember the play before that Plummer threw a pass to Watts in the endzone that went right through his hands. It should have never came down to that 1 game winning kick in the last 5-8 seasons that Elam missed (had blocked).

[Lonestar]

That it was. But if you remember the play before that Plummer threw a pass to Watts in the endzone that went right through his hands. It should have never came down to that 1 game winning kick in the last 5-8 seasons that Elam missed (had blocked).




I think you mean hand.. another of mikey pooches.

[LRtagger]

You can't win every game by 10+ points.

You cant win every game...period. When this team is ready to win 9-10 games a year without having to rely on a kicker to win them, then at that point they will need an elite kicker to put them over the edge into the 11-12 win category. At this point, whats the different between winning 5 games or winning 7 games? We still suck either way.



And you're acting like 2 games is not that big of a deal. I guess it's not when you suck ass like we have for the past 21 games. But what if whoever we end up with misses kicks in 1 or 2 games that we lose by 1-3 points and we end the season 9-7, one game behind SD and one game behind that #6 seed. Then we're sitting at home watching the playoffs.

When 1 or 2 games is the difference bettween playoffs or no playoffs, it's a huge deal. HUGE!

Unfortunately (and realistically) we are not a playoff team at this point. When we are ready to be a playoff team, Jason's contract would be up (if we extended him). Hopefully when we are ready to be a playoff team, we can have a guy groomed to be a playoff kicker.

What would we do if we kept Jason and this team really started becoming elite in 3-4 years. Well about that time Jason is ready to retire. Then we are stuck with an elite team and a rookie or washed up kicker. I would rather get the rookie now while the rest of the team is rebuilding and get some experience under his belt now while the team sucks.

Its going to suck possibly watching a rook cost us a couple games in the next year or two, but I would rather watch him miss the kicks now, then when we are making a serious run at the Super Bowl (which we will not be doing for a couple years IMO)

[Lonestar]

You cant win every game...period. When this team is ready to win 9-10 games a year without having to rely on a kicker to win them, then at that point they will need an elite kicker to put them over the edge into the 11-12 win category. At this point, whats the different between winning 5 games or winning 7 games? We still suck either way.



Unfortunately (and realistically) we are not a playoff team at this point. When we are ready to be a playoff team, Jason's contract would be up (if we extended him). Hopefully when we are ready to be a playoff team, we can have a guy groomed to be a playoff kicker.

What would we do if we kept Jason and this team really started becoming elite in 3-4 years. Well about that time Jason is ready to retire. Then we are stuck with an elite team and a rookie or washed up kicker. I would rather get the rookie now while the rest of the team is rebuilding and get some experience under his belt now while the team sucks.

Its going to suck possibly watching a rook cost us a couple games in the next year or two, but I would rather watch him miss the kicks now, then when we are making a serious run at the Super Bowl (which we will not be doing for a couple years IMO)


As much as many do not want to believe this it is pretty close to being the truth..

Not to mention saving 2 mill a year on a drafted kicker..

[In-com-plete]

Unfortunately (and realistically) we are not a playoff team at this point. When we are ready to be a playoff team, Jason's contract would be up (if we extended him). Hopefully when we are ready to be a playoff team, we can have a guy groomed to be a playoff kicker.
Exactly! We're not a playoff team right now so we'll be playing more close games. And we need someone to win those close games. And who's better than Elam? Nobody.


What would we do if we kept Jason and this team really started becoming elite in 3-4 years. Well about that time Jason is ready to retire. Then we are stuck with an elite team and a rookie or washed up kicker. I would rather get the rookie now while the rest of the team is rebuilding and get some experience under his belt now while the team sucks.
If we're elite in 3-4 years, odds are we'll be winning by 10+ points a game. At that point, we won't need Elam.


Its going to suck possibly watching a rook cost us a couple games in the next year or two, but I would rather watch him miss the kicks now, then when we are making a serious run at the Super Bowl (which we will not be doing for a couple years IMO)
You're right about that. It will suck. But say we end up like the 'boys and are looking for a kicker for the next 5, 6 years.

And BTW, we stand a better chance of winning the SB now than we did 1½ years ago. Just ask Shanny. ;)

Good arguements though tagger. :salute:

[In-com-plete]

I think you mean hand.. another of mikey pooches.

And to think I was soooo pumped when we drafted Watts. Been a life long Marshall fan and I thought for sure he could be a Stokley type 3rd reciever. Pretty bad when a second round pick gets cut and doesn't even sign with anyone else.

But these are the type of draft picks that have us going 7-9 and looking up at the Chargers while barely holding off the Chefs and Raiders for the cellar in this very weak division.

[LoyalSoldier]

You are missing the point completely. No GOOD team needs a kicker to consistantly win games for them. They just dont.

Everyone keeps saying "Oh without Elam last year we would have been 5-11 or 4-12"....well, WITH Elam we were still 7-9!!!!! 7-9 SUCKS ASS.

If we scored consistantly in the red zone, what do you think our record would have been? It would have been 9-7 at the very least. Probably better.

We dont NEED Elam to win games. We NEED a consistant red zone offense and we NEED a defense that can hold opponents to under 26.5 ppg or whatever our defense averaged giving up last year.

Yep your right a good team never needed a kicker to win consistently....err.. wait wasn't that the Pats since they won two superbowls because of a kicker?

And you are missing the point. Even the best teams in the league have had kickers win games key games for them. Want an example?

How many Superbowls came down to an kicker from the Pats?
NFC Championship game this year? Oh yea, kicker (Which he missed 2 or 3 field goals before. Tells you how important they are doesn't it?)
Steelers vs Colts a few years ago, missed field goal decided the game
1998 NFC Championship game? Oh yea kicker
Colts vs Ravens? Oh yea kicker
Bill vs Giants in the superbowl? Oh yea missed kick

I don't care how good your team is you will always need a kicker. Because you aren't the only good team in the league.

And what's you point anyways? I agree the team needs to improve, but at the same time not having a kicker can be horrible.

[LRtagger]

Yep your right a good team never needed a kicker to win consistently....err.. wait wasn't that the Pats since they won two superbowls because of a kicker?

And you are missing the point. Even the best teams in the league have had kickers win games key games for them. Want an example?

How many Superbowls came down to an kicker from the Pats?
NFC Championship game this year? Oh yea, kicker (Which he missed 2 or 3 field goals before. Tells you how important they are doesn't it?)
Steelers vs Colts a few years ago, missed field goal decided the game
1998 NFC Championship game? Oh yea kicker
Colts vs Ravens? Oh yea kicker
Bill vs Giants in the superbowl? Oh yea missed kick

I don't care how good your team is you will always need a kicker. Because you aren't the only good team in the league.

And what's you point anyways? I agree the team needs to improve, but at the same time not having a kicker can be horrible.

uhhh thats great and all that all of those teams won the Super Bowl with the help of a kicker...

but what makes you think we would be going to the Super Bowl anytime soon with or without Jason Elam?

all of those teams were MUCH MORE COMPLETE AS A WHOLE than this team is even close to being. By the time we are on the same level as those teams, Elam will be 40+ years old and only be able to make FG's inside the 30, but will still want $3mil a year.

BTW, how many Super Bowls has a Jason won for us in the last 10 years?

[LRtagger]

And BTW, we stand a better chance of winning the SB now than we did 1½ years ago. Just ask Shanny. ;)


Yea, and he would have said the same thing over the last 10 years...how's that panned out for us ;)

[LoyalSoldier]

uhhh thats great and all that all of those teams won the Super Bowl with the help of a kicker...

but what makes you think we would be going to the Super Bowl anytime soon with or without Jason Elam?

Sorry that is a horrible arguement.

"We don't need to keep a good kicker because we aren't going to the superbowl any time soon"

Sorry doesn't cut it. How is the team going to get better as a whole if we get rid of a good kicker?


all of those teams were MUCH MORE COMPLETE AS A WHOLE

So what? It doesn't mean getting rid of a good kicker is a great idea. Part of those teams was a good kicker.


than this team is even close to being. By the time we are on the same level as those teams, Elam will be 40+ years old and only be able to make FG's inside the 30, but will still want $3mil a year.

You never know how good or bad a team can be year to year. I still remember saying a few years ago if everything went our way we could get a 12-4 season. I was told that was such a stretch.....we went 13-3 that year. The only given is the Lions will be horrible.


BTW, how many Super Bowls has a Jason won for us in the last 10 years?

If we take away just half of Elam's field goals how many superbowls would we have made it to? A good team doesn't need to win games solely because of a kicker, but at the same time without a good kicker those teams can lose a lot of games.

[Benetto]

The old and worn-out argument is null when it comes to kickers. Morton Anderson proved that to everyone.

Also the Cowboys have proved that having a decent/bad kicker will cost you a lot of games..

So, I am Champs side on this subject...Stupid freakin move. Or non-move, I should say. :mad:

I can see this biting us in the ass.

[scott.475]

Well, he is gone now, and none of this arguing is going bring him back or help us win any games. Can we put it to bed now?

[broncosfanscott]

The old and worn-out argument is null when it comes to kickers. Morton Anderson proved that to everyone.

Also the Cowboys have proved that having a decent/bad kicker will cost you a lot of games..

So, I am Champs side on this subject...Stupid freakin move. Or non-move, I should say. :mad:

I can see this biting us in the ass.


Hopefully this won't happen when we play Atlanta this year.

[LoyalSoldier]

Well, he is gone now, and none of this arguing is going bring him back or help us win any games. Can we put it to bed now?

Where's the fun in that?! ;)

[weazel]

what about Vanderjagt? dude has a big mouth, but he can kick the ball. He still has the best kicking percentage ever in the NFL, and never had a bad season.

wouldnt hurt to give him an invite to camp.

[LoyalSoldier]

what about Vanderjagt? dude has a big mouth, but he can kick the ball. He still has the best kicking percentage ever in the NFL, and never had a bad season.

wouldnt hurt to give him an invite to camp.

Did you see him in Dallas?

[LRtagger]

If we take away just half of Elam's field goals how many superbowls would we have made it to? A good team doesn't need to win games solely because of a kicker, but at the same time without a good kicker those teams can lose a lot of games.

Thats a bit of a reach. Are you saying that no other kicker could have made half the kicks that Jason made? I'm confident we would have been the same dominant team of the late 90's with our without Jason. I don't regret having him at all, he has been a great kicker his entire career, but I don't think we would have any fewer SB rings without him.


Sorry that is a horrible arguement.

"We don't need to keep a good kicker because we aren't going to the superbowl any time soon"

Sorry doesn't cut it. How is the team going to get better as a whole if we get rid of a good kicker?



So what? It doesn't mean getting rid of a good kicker is a great idea. Part of those teams was a good kicker.



You never know how good or bad a team can be year to year. I still remember saying a few years ago if everything went our way we could get a 12-4 season. I was told that was such a stretch.....we went 13-3 that year. The only given is the Lions will be horrible.


I'm not saying we dont need a good kicker...I'm just saying it is a good time to groom a new GOOD kicker while the team is in a slump.

If our new kicker misses a 30-40 yard kick that costs us a championship, then I'll be glad to admit I was wrong.

I loved Elam as much as the next Bronco fan...I just see no reason to keep him here for $3mil a year just so he can kick meaningless 40 yard field goals while we pooch it everytime our drive stops at the 35 yard line. If all he wanted was more money, I'm sure he realized it might cost him the opportunity to end his career in Denver....now he's going to be kicking even more meaningless FG's in Atlanta. They are one of the few teams in the league that has it less together than the Broncos.

Either way, good luck to him. I think our future will be fine without him. There are plenty of other great kickers out there and we seem to be pretty good at judging talent at that position.

[MOtorboat]

Thats a bit of a reach. Are you saying that no other kicker could have made half the kicks that Jason made? I'm confident we would have been the same dominant team of the late 90's with our without Jason. I don't regret having him at all, he has been a great kicker his entire career, but I don't think we would have any fewer SB rings without him.

1998 saw the third lowest number of FGs Made in his career. What does that mean? Get the ball in the freaking end zone.

[LRtagger]

1998 saw the third lowest number of FGs Made in his career. What does that mean? Get the ball in the freaking end zone.

DING DING DING

[LoyalSoldier]

Thats a bit of a reach. Are you saying that no other kicker could have made half the kicks that Jason made? I'm confident we would have been the same dominant team of the late 90's with our without Jason. I don't regret having him at all, he has been a great kicker his entire career, but I don't think we would have any fewer SB rings without him.

You never know. If we had a guy who missed quite a few field goals I can think of a few close games we had over the years that would be different.

My point is that a good kicker is incredibly valuable.

[Den21vsBal19]

You never know. If we had a guy who missed quite a few field goals I can think of a few close games we had over the years that would be different.

My point is that a good kicker is incredibly valuable.
Problem is that you only notice that when you don't have one ;)

[LRtagger]

You never know. If we had a guy who missed quite a few field goals I can think of a few close games we had over the years that would be different.

My point is that a good kicker is incredibly valuable.


I dont think anyone is debating that. I am just saying that we have much more pressing needs at the moment. Paying huge money to Elam is kind of pointless right now.

We need to get a new young kicker into the system and get him comfortable and experienced. We are going to be one of the best teams in the NFL in a couple years and at that time will need a great kicker to get us to the Super Bowl. I dont want to have to worry about drafting a rookie kicker when this team consistantly starts winning 12 games a year.