Is Cutler a top 10 QB yet?

[Watchthemiddle]

The world is coming to an end. Culter is not considered the end all be all second coming of the next QB, and KING and I have agreed...

[King87]

The world is coming to an end. Culter is not considered the end all be all second coming of the next QB, and KING and I have agreed...

Oh lord, I SEE ZOMBIES ON THE HORIZON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!1

[topscribe]

Cutler currently is a good QB who is overrated an astounding amount by some of his fans. I don't blame anyone, in 2005 some people (mostly my fellow Cincinnati fans) thought Palmer was instantly a top five QB. Honestly, I thought that his true talent came out (he lead Cincy to one of our few good moments breaking the playoffs slump and being the only QB to be top five in every stat category, good god that was a great year). The reality is that everyone thinks that their guy is better than he is, and when it comes down arguing it I see most fans exaggerrating their guy's case.

Cutler is good, right now he is not great. A lot of guys have better stats. A lot of guys have more wins. Winning is a team acheievement, and it's overrated so much when yo judge a single player. Dan Marino never won a SB, but I think he could have won a SB as the Steelers QB. Trent Dilfer won a SB and he was average at best. The examples go on and on and on.

For Cutler to be great he needs to have some more good years, and Cutler had a good stat year, not a great one. The standard for a great year as a QB in our leage today is 30 TDs, another standard is a 2:1 TD to INT ratio (give or take a few, you have to take into account that usually a few INTs aren't the QB's fault - tipped balls, being forced to throw into coverage because of remaining game time left, WR messing up, etc etc etc).

For some people he is going to need to get to the playoffs every year (barring a blip here and there) ala Manning, Brady, Hasslebeck, Big Ben, etc etc etc.

My point is that I see a lot of strange things in this thread. I hate Phillip Rivers, he's a douche and getting up in the face of fans like that should warrant a big time fine and possibly a one game suspension in my mind, but he is better than Cutler. He has better stats, and to top it off he has been to the playoffs more than Cutler. You are not better than a player if he outproduces you and has more wins than you. You are certainly not better than him if he is more proven than you are.

Jay Cutler has quite a journey to reach top five status. He will get there though, I'd put some cash on that.

Just one question: If Cutler were the QB for the Chargers, do you think he
would have been to the playoffs more than he has with the Broncos? Do you
think he would have a better W-L record?

There are too many people who are bringing up Cutler's W-L record. Give the
team a defense first, then bring it up.

I see your comment that you see future greatness in Cutler. I'm just pointing
out a fallacy I have seen too much on these boards.

-----

[Watchthemiddle]

Just one question: If Cutler were the QB for the Chargers, do you think he
would have been to the playoffs more than he has with the Broncos? Do you
think he would have a better W-L record?

There are too many people who are bringing up Cutler's W-L record. Give the
team a defense first, then bring it up.

I see your comment that you see future greatness in Cutler. I'm just pointing
out a fallacy I have seen too much on these boards.

-----

Top it really doesn't matter....if this or if that.

Cutler WAS the QB of the Broncos and although they and HE put up a lot of yards...the points weren't there.

[King87]

Just one question: If Cutler were the QB for the Chargers, do you think he
would have been to the playoffs more than he has with the Broncos? Do you
think he would have a better W-L record?

There are too many people who are bringing up Cutler's W-L record. Give the
team a defense first, then bring it up.

I see your comment that you see future greatness in Cutler. I'm just pointing
out a fallacy I have seen too much on these boards.

-----

If Jay Cutler was the Charger's QB, he would probably have gone to the playoffs more, and he would have a better W-L record.

But, I also think that if you put a lot of those guys on the list ahead of Cutler on your team THIS year, you would have gone to the playoffs. This year Rivers won games on his back with a defense that was not dominant (so it wasn't that), an offense with a banged up LT and Gates, and a slightly above average WR corp. He made a lot of plays this year, and he killed it. He outplayed Cutler, because as far as the offense goes, the Broncos compared very similarly talent wise.

Edit, this is why I go by stats more than W-L records. Stats dont tell the entire story, but they come a lot closer than the W-L record.

[topscribe]

If Jay Cutler was the Charger's QB, he would probably have gone to the playoffs more, and he would have a better W-L record.

But, I also think that if you put a lot of those guys on the list ahead of Cutler on your team THIS year, you would have gone to the playoffs. This year Rivers won games on his back with a defense that was not dominant (so it wasn't that), an offense with a banged up LT and Gates, and a slightly above average WR corp. He made a lot of plays this year, and he killed it. He outplayed Cutler, because as far as the offense goes, the Broncos compared very similarly talent wise.

Edit, this is why I go by stats more than W-L records. Stats dont tell the entire story, but they come a lot closer than the W-L record.

Yes, but as far as the defense goes the two teams were not similar. The
defense does essentially two things for the offense: (1) get the ball back
and (2) hold leads.

While I admit that the Chargers didn't have a much better defense than the
Broncos the first few games of the year, they were far superior thereafter,
following Rivera's advent at DC. And that is when the Chargers started to
catch the Broncos in the standings.

So both the QB's W-L record and stats can be affected by the defense. That
is why I don't place much emphasis on them when you are considering two
completely different teams.

There is a reason why the coaches did not name Rivers even as an alternate
for the Pro Bowl last year. Here, check out Woodson's final comment about
Cutler in this vid, just before the end. I think that pretty well nails it:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f50617

-----

[getlynched47]

Hmmmmm, i dont know about that. Yes, he has had a good surrounding cast but when the plays matter the most he makes them. The dude is tough as nails and knows how to finish a game winning drive. Cutler has his moments but not enough of them for me right now to place him above Big Ben. He certainly has a better arm but it takes more to be a great QB than just an arm.

But we havent seen Cutler play to what he is capable of doing because our defense has been atrocious ever since Cutler took over at QB the last 5 games of '06.

If Cutler was the QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'd bank on him being a hell of a lot better than Ben Roethlisberger...poor Cutler hasn't had a supporting cast (excluding '08 offensive line and WR's) since being the starter here. Give him that, and I'll put him ahead of Roethlisberger in a heart beat.

[Northman]

But we havent seen Cutler play to what he is capable of doing because our defense has been atrocious ever since Cutler took over at QB the last 5 games of '06.

If Cutler was the QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'd bank on him being a hell of a lot better than Ben Roethlisberger...poor Cutler hasn't had a supporting cast (excluding '08 offensive line and WR's) since being the starter here. Give him that, and I'll put him ahead of Roethlisberger in a heart beat.

Yes, he hasnt had as much help as Ben but it doesnt excuse some of his misgivings and bad decisions. However, he is still young but im still not going to rank him above Ben AT THIS POINT.

[bullis26]

I was reading through a thread on another site and after reading it I was wondering if Cutler is in fact a top 10 QB right now in this league.

No special Order... Would you have Culter in the top 10 or even top 5?

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Tony Romo
5. Carson Palmer
6. Drew Brees
7. Jay Cutler
8. Phillip Rivers
9. Marc Bulger
10. David Garrard
11. Donovan McNabb
12. David Anderson
13. Matt Schaub
14. Chad Pennington
15. Eli Manning

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Drew Brees
5. Phillip Rivers
6. Donovan McNabb
7. Tony Romo
8. Jay Cutler
9. Matt Cassel
10. Eli Manning

[EMB6903]

^no Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer?

[Northman]

^no Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer?

Not only that but im not putting Matt Cassel in the top 10 after just one year. Thats ridiculous.

[getlynched47]

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Phillys Quivers
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Tony Romo
7. Jay Cutler
8. Eli Manning
9. Kurt Warner
10. Donovan McNabb

I think that's how things stand as of right now...

[getlynched47]

Not only that but im not putting Matt Cassel in the top 10 after just one year. Thats ridiculous.

LMFAO at putting Cassel in the top 10 :laugh:.....:lol:

One year wonder + Product of the system IMO...

I'm glad the trade fell through and McCassel isnt here...

[Northman]

LMFAO at putting Cassel in the top 10 :laugh:.....:lol:

One year wonder + Product of the system IMO...

I'm glad the trade fell through and McCassel isnt here...

That must mean that Derek Anderson is number one.

[Shazam!]

I love how people think Cassel is dirt and disregard all he had to overcome to get where he is.

[King87]

I love how people think Cassel is dirt and disregard all he had to overcome to get where he is.

I don't think he is dirt, but I do think that his breakout is comparable to Flacco or Ryan in the sense that no one thought it would happen, and that the odds of him doing as well as he did aren't all that great.

Then again, he could be a perfectly good legit top ten QB and get mauled in KC.

[Dirk]

I guess I will get my two cents in on this one also...

My top ten is..

1. Peyton Manning - Toss up with Brady but I had to give it to Peyton

2. Tom Brady - Toss up with Peyton but Peyton has that extra something

3. Drew Brees - This guy just puts up numbers

4. Jay Cutler - Puts up numbers and can make something out of nothing

5. Phillip Rivers - Great competative and natural abilities

6. Ben Roethlisberger - Overatted but can't take away the SBs (although the D has always been there for him)

7. Eli Manning - Shows signs of greatness but lacks at times

8. Donovan McNabb - Consistently been at a level a lot of QBs wish they could be at

9. Kurt Warner - One of the most accurate QBs of all time

10. Tony Romo - Overated somewhat but can't deny he is good (but great??)

[claymore]

I love how people think Cassel is dirt and disregard all he had to overcome to get where he is.

Like Randy Moss and Wess Welker, a solid Offensive line and a good defense?

[King87]

I guess I will get my two cents in on this one also...

My top ten is..

1. Peyton Manning - Toss up with Brady but I had to give it to Peyton

2. Tom Brady - Toss up with Peyton but Peyton has that extra something

3. Drew Brees - This guy just puts up numbers

4. Jay Cutler - Puts up numbers and can make something out of nothing

5. Phillip Rivers - Great competative and natural abilities

6. Ben Roethlisberger - Overatted but can't take away the SBs (although the D has always been there for him)

7. Eli Manning - Shows signs of greatness but lacks at times

8. Donovan McNabb - Consistently been at a level a lot of QBs wish they could be at

9. Kurt Warner - One of the most accurate QBs of all time

10. Tony Romo - Overated somewhat but can't deny he is good (but great??)
Jay Cutler has had all of one good season and all the other QBs on that list are more proven than he is. Yeah, Cutler can make something out of nothing, and a lot of those times that something is a turnover.

The guy has elite talent, but Jay Cutler is not a player who strikes intimidation into the heart of other teams. How could you have him over Romo? Romo makes as many plays, has better stats, and even has the wins as well.

The same holds true for Rivers and Big Ben.

Cutler is vastly overrated on this message board.

[CoachChaz]

Jay Cutler has had all of one good season and all the other QBs on that list are more proven than he is. Yeah, Cutler can make something out of nothing, and a lot of those times that something is a turnover.

The guy has elite talent, but Jay Cutler is not a player who strikes intimidation into the heart of other teams. How could you have him over Romo? Romo makes as many plays, has better stats, and even has the wins as well.

The same holds true for Rivers and Big Ben.

Cutler is vastly overrated on this message board.

What I like about this comment is something I've found over the past few weeks. Fans of teams other than Denver are often the best perspective to look at. I've spoken to Cowboys fans that don't like Romo...and they wouldnt trade him for Cutler. A Packers fan told me the other day that he'd be content keeping Rodgers as opposed to dealing with Cutler's mess.

It goes on and on. I want to have Jay lead this team as much as anyone, but sometimes people just have to take off the orange glasses and come back to reality. Jay has tons of talent and potential, but after that...what proves he'll be as great as some people make him out to be?

[Dirk]

Jay Cutler has had all of one good season and all the other QBs on that list are more proven than he is. Yeah, Cutler can make something out of nothing, and a lot of those times that something is a turnover.

The guy has elite talent, but Jay Cutler is not a player who strikes intimidation into the heart of other teams. How could you have him over Romo? Romo makes as many plays, has better stats, and even has the wins as well.

The same holds true for Rivers and Big Ben.

Cutler is vastly overrated on this message board.

Well, I am NOT being a homer when I say this about Cutler. He is a talent that has been in a bad situation. IF and of course it is just an IF...but IF he had the defenses that both Ben and Romo have had (especially Ben). I have no doubt that Denver would have went deep into the playoffs the past two seasons. His turnovers are going to happen when you MUST throw all the time. It is just the way the game is.

Romo is somewhat overated IMO, but I still put him in the top 10 because I think he is good. Ben is HIGHLY overated. If Ben had the displeasure of having the defenses that Jay has had, he would never have won the SBs. Period.

I regard Rivers as an elite QB. I think he is VERY good. As I stated.

Just an example of Jay versus Ben over last season...

Jay -
GP PYDS PCT TDs INT RATING
16 4526 62.3 25 18 86.0

Ben -
GP PYDS PCT TDs INT RATING
16 3301 59.9 17 15 80.1

When you throw for 1200+ more yards your attempts are up and it will allow for more interceptions, but he only has 3 more than Ben. Not too bad if you ask me.

Now Romo's number are better with

GP PYDS PCT TDs INT RATING
13 3448 61.3 26 14 91.4



But my oppinion is that Jay is a better QB. Both are young and have an upside. I would rather bring Jay along to "fine tune" than Romo because I believe he has more skills.

Remember, this is my oppinion and it's NOT being a homer on this.

[King87]

Well, I am NOT being a homer when I say this about Cutler. He is a talent that has been in a bad situation. IF and of course it is just an IF...but IF he had the defenses that both Ben and Romo have had (especially Ben). I have no doubt that Denver would have went deep into the playoffs the past two seasons. His turnovers are going to happen when you MUST throw all the time. It is just the way the game is.

How is he in a bad situation? He plays one of the best offensive lines in football, the Broncos had an above average running game statistically speaking, and Cutler plays in a weak division. Cutler has pretty good talent around him as well, the entire woe is Cutler is crapola.


Romo is somewhat overated IMO, but I still put him in the top 10 because I think he is good. Ben is HIGHLY overated. If Ben had the displeasure of having the defenses that Jay has had, he would never have won the SBs. Period.
Big Ben plays on a team that is has one of the worst offensive lines in football. His offensive talent is lesser than that of Cutler. Big Ben is actually pretty good statistically speaking, and makes as many plays as anyone in the NFL.

Tony Romo has more good stat years than Cutler, has been to the playoffs, and outproduces Cutler. Romo plays in the best division in the NFL. Cutler is not better than him currently.



I regard Rivers as an elite QB. I think he is VERY good. As I stated.

As far as Rivers vs Cutler, Cutler has less good stat years, has been to the playoffs less, and that's the summary. If a QB has more good stat years than Cutler and is still producing at a higher level than odds are he would be ahead of him in the QB rankings. If winning is a tiebreaker than Cutler is beating out no one. If it is the main issue then he is going to be beating no one. He just isn't proven yet, and while I think that he is going to be top five, and IMO eventually top 3, to put him there NOW is silly and honestly you can't really defend it.


Just an example of Jay versus Ben over last season...

Jay -
GP PYDS PCT TDs INT RATING
16 4526 62.3 25 18 86.0

Ben -
GP PYDS PCT TDs INT RATING
16 3301 59.9 17 15 80.1

When you throw for 1200+ more yards your attempts are up and it will allow for more interceptions, but he only has 3 more than Ben. Not too bad if you ask me.

Now Romo's number are better with

GP PYDS PCT TDs INT RATING
13 3448 61.3 26 14 91.4


Big Ben plays with a worse line and worse overall talent. Brandon Marshall/Royal/Stokely/Scheffler/Denver's running system is >than Ward/Holmes/Miller/Pittsburgh's running system in terms of talent level. Let's not forget that in 2007 Big Ben threw for 32 TDs and like 13 ints. Big Ben at his best is considerably better than Cutler at his best. Cutler is less proven than Big Ben, he is not better than Big Ben.




But my oppinion is that Jay is a better QB. Both are young and have an upside. I would rather bring Jay along to "fine tune" than Romo because I believe he has more skills.

Remember, this is my oppinion and it's NOT being a homer on this.
Yes, you are being a homer here. None of your arguments really hold any water, and your QB ends up being ranked by you as what, fourth or fifth? It's just insanity.

[King87]

What I like about this comment is something I've found over the past few weeks. Fans of teams other than Denver are often the best perspective to look at. I've spoken to Cowboys fans that don't like Romo...and they wouldnt trade him for Cutler. A Packers fan told me the other day that he'd be content keeping Rodgers as opposed to dealing with Cutler's mess.

It goes on and on. I want to have Jay lead this team as much as anyone, but sometimes people just have to take off the orange glasses and come back to reality. Jay has tons of talent and potential, but after that...what proves he'll be as great as some people make him out to be?

It's easier to be objective when you aren't talking about your team and your players.

Cutler is not regarded as high amongst other fans in the NFL for a reason. Everyone knows how great and elite his talent is, but that means nothing.

I would bet money that Cutler becomes a beast, but just because that is what will probably happen doesn't mean that it's true now.

[CoachChaz]

I guess as an objective fan, I would really like to see Jay put together more than one decent season and handle chaos and disorder a little better before I get to assuming he will be a beast. Everyone knows he has the skills and talent, but it takes more than that.

[King87]

I guess as an objective fan, I would really like to see Jay put together more than one decent season and handle chaos and disorder a little better before I get to assuming he will be a beast. Everyone knows he has the skills and talent, but it takes more than that.

No, three years in the league, one slightly above average year and one good year makes him a top five beast. He is Elway and Montana and Marino combined. Moron.

[TXBRONC]

Jay Cutler has had all of one good season and all the other QBs on that list are more proven than he is. Yeah, Cutler can make something out of nothing, and a lot of those times that something is a turnover.

The guy has elite talent, but Jay Cutler is not a player who strikes intimidation into the heart of other teams. How could you have him over Romo? Romo makes as many plays, has better stats, and even has the wins as well.

The same holds true for Rivers and Big Ben.

Cutler is vastly overrated on this message board.

Funny you should say that after putting Cassel in your top ten. And how many years has Cassel been a starter. By the way Jay's had two solid seasons back to back.

[King87]

Funny you should say that after putting Cassel in your top ten. And how many years has Cassel been a starter. By the way Jay's had two solid seasons back to back.

Uh.......

Lawl......

When did this happen?

[Dirk]

I'll just leave it at this...

It's all oppinion as I stated. Homer or no homer in YOUR oppinion. We will just have to disagree.

[Northman]

I'll just leave it at this...

It's all oppinion as I stated. Homer or no homer in YOUR oppinion. We will just have to disagree.

Bigtime....

[getlynched47]

I love how people think Cassel is dirt and disregard all he had to overcome to get where he is.

Cassel was extremely lucky.

he will fail miserably in Kansas City...he wont have a consistant running game or solid defense like he had in New England......plus his girlfriend McDaniels isnt his QB coach anymore...

[CoachChaz]

So because Cassell will be in a bad situation he'll suck, but if he were in a good situation it would be because of hte team and coach. Essentially, we're saying ther is NOTHING Cassell can do to prove his value.

[BroncoJoe]

Yeah, Cassel was/is a "system" guy, lucky, great running game, receivers, coaching, blah blah blah. Yet Cutler is the next coming even though he hasn't proven anything yet.

Huh.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah, Cassel was/is a "system" guy, lucky, great running game, receivers, coaching, blah blah blah. Yet Cutler is the next coming even though he hasn't proven anything yet.

Huh.

I guess so. Apparently we can agree that Cutler has a great line, great receivers a top 10 running game, HAD an offensive guru coach and an up and coming QB coach...but he did everything on his own.

Whereas Cassell...who had much of the same with the exception of a weak line and an OC that supposedly sucks...was just a product of the system.

Makes sense.

[turftoad]

This is from a pole on ESPN QB rankings: Cutler at #9. So........... I guess he is a top 10 QB.

(#1 votes) total votes

1 Tom Brady (8,474) 592,264
2 Peyton Manning (7,697) 583,623
3 Drew Brees (954) 538,098
4 Ben Roethlisberger (458) 488,108
5 Kurt Warner (156) 431,482
6 Eli Manning (74) 428,125
7 Philip Rivers (154) 427,211
8 Donovan McNabb (77) 425,189
9 Jay Cutler (234) 404,693
10 Carson Palmer (33) 384,689
11 Tony Romo (75) 380,990
12 Matt Ryan (52) 336,419
13 Matt Cassel (30) 310,683
14 Matt Hasselbeck (21) 287,177
15 Aaron Rodgers (68) 272,439
16 Kerry Collins (11) 257,341
17 Joe Flacco (24) 254,626
18 Chad Pennington (26) 246,840
19 Jake Delhomme (11) 242,983
20 Marc Bulger (12) 223,981
21 Jeff Garcia (0) 201,752
22 Jason Campbell (54) 193,253
23 David Garrard (6) 188,431
24 Trent Edwards (51) 182,741
25 Derek Anderson (28) 165,318
26 Matt Schaub (7) 161,003
27 Brady Quinn (37) 146,398
28 Kyle Orton (23) 117,228
29 Shaun Hill (21) 90,639
30 JaMarcus Russell (37) 87,682
31 Tarvaris Jackson (31) 86,934
32 Matthew Stafford (12) 75,687
33 Mark Sanchez (6) 64,840

[Broncolingus]

Cutler had a pretty good system the past few years too...

He's a top 10 - at least playing in Denver the past few years...

...be interesting to see if he still is in Detroit, Tampa, or Jets.

[Denver27og]

This is from a pole on ESPN QB rankings: Cutler at #9. So........... I guess he is a top 10 QB.

(#1 votes) total votes

1 Tom Brady (8,474) 592,264
2 Peyton Manning (7,697) 583,623
3 Drew Brees (954) 538,098
4 Ben Roethlisberger (458) 488,108
5 Kurt Warner (156) 431,482
6 Eli Manning (74) 428,125
7 Philip Rivers (154) 427,211
8 Donovan McNabb (77) 425,189
9 Jay Cutler (234) 404,693
10 Carson Palmer (33) 384,689
11 Tony Romo (75) 380,990
12 Matt Ryan (52) 336,419
13 Matt Cassel (30) 310,683
14 Matt Hasselbeck (21) 287,177
15 Aaron Rodgers (68) 272,439
16 Kerry Collins (11) 257,341
17 Joe Flacco (24) 254,626
18 Chad Pennington (26) 246,840
19 Jake Delhomme (11) 242,983
20 Marc Bulger (12) 223,981
21 Jeff Garcia (0) 201,752
22 Jason Campbell (54) 193,253
23 David Garrard (6) 188,431
24 Trent Edwards (51) 182,741
25 Derek Anderson (28) 165,318
26 Matt Schaub (7) 161,003
27 Brady Quinn (37) 146,398
28 Kyle Orton (23) 117,228
29 Shaun Hill (21) 90,639
30 JaMarcus Russell (37) 87,682
31 Tarvaris Jackson (31) 86,934
32 Matthew Stafford (12) 75,687
33 Mark Sanchez (6) 64,840


If I were a GM Ide rather have Cutler over mcnabb, big ben, eli, rivers, or kurt warner. He is a top 5 QB considering age talent and upside. The broncos need to snap out of it and pay the kid for real.

[Shazam!]

Some thought Jake was a Top 5 QB too for the record.

[bullis26]

^no Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer?

completely fotgot about warner my bad, hes in there in top 7 for sure, but without those receivers he wouldnt be a top 10.... and carson palmer? what has he done since he tore his ACL, he hardly played this year, no way i'd rank him in the top 10....this list is of right now right?
well cassal IMO played better than cutler last year, cutler had 18 picks in his second year as a starter cassal had much less than that in his first year as a starter

[skycoyote]

According to John Elway, Jay Cutler is a top 5 quarterback in the NFL, and I quote,
"as well as Jay Cutler as (one of) the top five quarterbacks in the league."
There now you have an experts opinion on the subject.

[King87]

Yes, but as far as the defense goes the two teams were not similar. The
defense does essentially two things for the offense: (1) get the ball back
and (2) hold leads.

While I admit that the Chargers didn't have a much better defense than the
Broncos the first few games of the year, they were far superior thereafter,
following Rivera's advent at DC. And that is when the Chargers started to
catch the Broncos in the standings.

So both the QB's W-L record and stats can be affected by the defense. That
is why I don't place much emphasis on them when you are considering two
completely different teams.

There is a reason why the coaches did not name Rivers even as an alternate
for the Pro Bowl last year. Here, check out Woodson's final comment about
Cutler in this vid, just before the end. I think that pretty well nails it:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f50617

-----

The reason why he was not a Pro Bowler was because people wanted to let Farve have another one. Just because someone did not get to the Pro Bowl does not mean that they didn't deserve it, and it does not mean that they weren't screwed over.

I don't put much emphasis on winning when it comes to individual players. If you put Tom Brady on the Lions their record would not change much, but that does not take away his ability.

The reason why Rivers is better than Cutler now is because he is more well rounded, he puts up better stats with a similar talented offense, he makes better decisions, plays better than Cutler.

Cutler's defense was ranked:
29th in total defense, the Bronco defense gave up 375 yards a game. The Chargers defense gave up 350 yards a game and was ranked 25th. Both defenses were bad.

For passing defense, your boys gave up 225 yards per game, the Chargers gave up 247. Interesting.


That information can be found here. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1


For rushing your Broncos gave up 5.0 yard per carry. The Chargers gave up 4.0 yards per carry. The Broncos gave up 146 yards on the ground per game, the Chargers gave up 102. That is the big difference.

Rivers did not do better and is not better because of his defense. He may have a better W L ratio because of it. My main beef with the Rivers Cutler debate is not their wins, all I have done is pointed out that many people include winning as a standard in comparisons and even in that Cutler does not get there.

How can he be a better QB when Rivers is more proven, better statistically, and to top it all off is consistently better than Cutler? It wouldn't be because Cutler puts up good numbers with bad talent because both teams have about equal talent, it can't be because of winning obviously, and to top it all off Cutler is FAR less efficient on the field because he has not yet put up a two to one TD ratio and Rivers just put up a great three to one TD INT ratio.


Rivers is most importantly: better statistically, more efficient on the field, more proven, and when it comes to an individual comparison, those are the big things.

For those who think that it matters for an individual comparison, Rivers outclasses Cutler when it comes to winning.

Rivers for right now is better than Cutler. I don't think that that will be the truth for too much longer.

[CoachChaz]

According to John Elway, Jay Cutler is a top 5 quarterback in the NFL, and I quote,
"as well as Jay Cutler as (one of) the top five quarterbacks in the league."
There now you have an experts opinion on the subject.

An old saying says that great players dont always make great coaches and great coaches dont make great players.

The same can be said for scouts. Does a great player immediately become a great judge of talent?

[King87]

An old saying says that great players dont always make great coaches and great coaches dont make great players.

The same can be said for scouts. Does a great player immediately become a great judge of talent?

Michael Irvin, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Boomer Esiason, Chris Collinsworth are all "experts" and they all fail miserably at their jobs.

[bullis26]

Michael Irvin, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Boomer Esiason, Chris Collinsworth are all "experts" and they all fail miserably at their jobs.

wheres elway on that list? is he scouting arena football players still too?

[King87]

wheres elway on that list? is he scouting arena football players still too?

not sure