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Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 10:09 AM
Here's what he did.

Basically, he did what the Cowboys and Dolphins do....

He takes the revenue from the "suites" and funnels it into a seperate entity
controlled by him.

Instant cash flow problem. (It goes into his bank, not the capital to run the teams bank)

Yeah, the owners are playing games.

I'll try to figure out the dummy corp and get back to you.

I am totally on the players side now, especially the old retired guys.

With all these layoffs, I just want the truth.

"I am the check" no.....Pat.....you aren't......the fans are.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-21-2008, 10:18 AM
Here's what he did.

Basically, he did what the Cowboys and Dolphins do....

He takes the revenue from the "suites" and funnels it into a seperate entity
controlled by him.

Instant cash flow problem.

Yeah, the owners are playing games.

I'll try to figure out the dummy corp and get back to you.

I am totally on the players side now, especially the old retired guys.

With all these layoffs, I just want the truth.

If this is what he is doing, this might be his means for making a profit. After all, does not an owner of anything expect to make a profit?

BroncoJoe
03-21-2008, 10:18 AM
Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn.

TXBRONC
03-21-2008, 10:21 AM
As long as he has done anything illegal and can get problem resolved it's not a huge concern to me. Buy the way where did you get the information Blah?

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 10:23 AM
There is supposedly a cash flow problem.

Hence, the need to lay people off.

He basically is taking money from the team and funneling it elsewhere to give the appearance of cash flow problems.

Does he have the right to do this.

Yes.

But it's shady as hell.

And it isn't the truth.

wylde bill
03-21-2008, 10:25 AM
Pat Bowlen : blah blah blah, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for the people i had to let go, and you curse the broncos. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the people i let go, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

pat bowlen: You want answers?
blah blah blah: I think I'm entitled.
pat bowlen: You want answers?
blah blah blah: I want the truth!
pat bowlen: You can't handle the truth!

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 10:26 AM
As long as he has done anything illegal and can get problem resolved it's not a huge concern to me. Buy the way where did you get the information Blah?


__________________________________________________ ______________________________

As always, you will never know.

Ask Scribe, he will tell ya, I'm fairly credible.

BroncoJoe
03-21-2008, 10:27 AM
The alledged "cash flow problem" was speculation by a reporter. No one in the organization has claimed that, and frankly I'm sure they're LTAO.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-21-2008, 10:36 AM
Many owners, corporations, etc. find ways to trim. Years ago, you could not go in any retail store without at least one, usually more, employees following you around asking if they could help you. Now, at least where I live, in most stores, you can not find any employee roaming the area, asking if they can help you. And in the Penneys I shop in, there used to be cash registers in every department. Now, they have a few customer service areas only, and most of the time you wait in a long line, just to get checked out.

wylde bill
03-21-2008, 10:47 AM
Many owners, corporations, etc. find ways to trim. Years ago, you could not go in any retail store without at least one, usually more, employees following you around asking if they could help you. Now, at least where I live, in most stores, you can not find any employee roaming the area, asking if they can help you. And in the Penneys I shop in, there used to be cash registers in every department. Now, they have a few customer service areas only, and most of the time you wait in a long line, just to get checked out.

true pat could of called in a specialist that works with corporations and finds ways to trim the fat (so ta say)

why does office space come to mind :lol:

BeefStew25
03-21-2008, 10:49 AM
Just BS for the next CBA.....

nevcraw
03-21-2008, 11:07 AM
Just BS for the next CBA.....


Exactly..

Owners to Players:
"Sorry guys, We can't give you the same deal or better because we in fact or in a reccession and making less money.. look we had to cut X % of our staff and budget. If we had to do that we can't possibly be making any money..Poor us"

turftoad
03-21-2008, 11:18 AM
Take this for what it's worth, PFT rumor mill.

BRONCOS LAY OFF EIGHT EMPLOYEES

A week after NFL Films cut loose nearly 10 percent of its work force, one of the 32 NFL franchises is tightening the belt, too.

Per the Denver Post, the Broncos released eight employees on Wednesday, including director of media relations Paul Kirk and Andrew Mason, the managing editor of the team’s official web site.

“It’s a very, very difficult day when you have to eliminate jobs,” said Broncos’ chief operating officer Joe Ellis. “Especially when loyal, hardworking employees are involved. But our industry is like many others where downsizing and layoffs are required to make the business more effective.”

The moves possibly arise from a cash-flow problem within the franchise. But, clearly, there’s not a profit problem. So why can’t owner Pat Bowlen find a way to take advantage of the fact that he’s in a business that generates plenty of black ink, and that continues to enjoy continuous growth in the value of the operation?

As one league insider suggested, if Bowlen is having short-term money trouble, he should either get a loan (interest rates are down) or he should sell of a slice of the team. A ten-percent chunk should generate $80 million, which could be used to, you know, keep folks employed.

Then again, there’s also a chance that money troubles are being used as a pretext for cleaning out unwanted employees. It’s a fairly common practice – the workers are told that their positions are being eliminated when, in reality, the workers are being eliminated, and then replaced.

Regardless of the reason, it’s unusual to read about these kinds of corporate decisions in an industry that for decades has been doing better and better financially.

weazel
03-21-2008, 11:45 AM
I dont know what all the excitement is about...

dude wants to get rid of some dead weight in the staff, and stop spending big money on useless players on the field. Whats wrong with that? Pretty simple, really... now lets get over this exremely minor issue.

wylde bill
03-21-2008, 11:52 AM
I dont know what all the excitement is about...

dude wants to get rid of some dead weight in the staff, and stop spending big money on useless players on the field. Whats wrong with that? Pretty simple, really... now lets get over this exremely minor issue.

ill tell ya what the big issue is .....

its the bloody offseason and we have nothing else to talk about :tsk:

cant wait till the players are on the field again :salute:

MHCBill
03-21-2008, 11:53 AM
ummmmmm... it's his business to do with it what he wants.

DenBronx
03-21-2008, 12:01 PM
There is supposedly a cash flow problem.

Hence, the need to lay people off.

He basically is taking money from the team and funneling it elsewhere to give the appearance of cash flow problems.

Does he have the right to do this.

Yes.

But it's shady as hell.

And it isn't the truth.


cash flow problems are everywhere in america right now, not just the broncos organization. i understand why some people had to get laid off. our economy will rebound and we can again give people nonchelant jobs with nifty little titles.

are the owners not in this to make money too? pat has to make money for himself and family somewhere right? he chose the suites and thats his right. so what, a few pretzle and cotton candy salesmen got laid off... i'm sure their experience will get them far in life.

BOSSHOGG30
03-21-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm more worried about the entire United States economy than the Denver Broncos.

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 12:37 PM
Keep in mind.


You just exposed yourselves.


Prove me wrong.

DenBronx
03-21-2008, 12:43 PM
Keep in mind.


You just exposed yourselves.


Prove me wrong.


huh?

HolyDiver
03-21-2008, 12:43 PM
Keep in mind.


You just exposed yourselves.


Prove me wrong.


WTF?

BroncoJoe
03-21-2008, 12:43 PM
WTF?

I was going to say the same thing!

DenBronx
03-21-2008, 12:44 PM
I was going to say the same thing!

so was i then i watered it down to HUH?

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 12:46 PM
Pat Bowlen : blah blah blah, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for the people i had to let go, and you curse the broncos. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the people i let go, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

pat bowlen: You want answers?
blah blah blah: I think I'm entitled.
pat bowlen: You want answers?
blah blah blah: I want the truth!
pat bowlen: You can't handle the truth!

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________

Married to Pat ???

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 12:55 PM
No, it's posturing.

He......Pat bowlen....says.....your job has ended.


You did a great job.......but I can't afford you.


B.S.

turftoad
03-21-2008, 12:58 PM
No, it's posturing.

He......Pat bowlen....says.....your job has ended.


You did a great job.......but I can't afford you.
B.S.

We have no way to know what he told them.

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 01:00 PM
Truth speaks.

When you can prove me wrong....let me know.

Trust me....others have tried.

turftoad
03-21-2008, 01:05 PM
Truth speaks.

When you can prove me wrong....let me know.

Trust me....others have tried.

Were you in the office when these people were let go??

The only thing we know is what the media has put out there and it's all speculation. All we know is that 8 people were let go. We don't know why.

Superchop 7
03-21-2008, 01:20 PM
Unbelievable.

Prove me wrong !!!!

You can't.


Shut up trolls.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-21-2008, 01:23 PM
Truth speaks.

When you can prove me wrong....let me know.

Trust me....others have tried.

I don't feel you have proved yourself right, as yet.

slim
03-21-2008, 01:38 PM
Unbelievable.

Prove me wrong !!!!

You can't.


Shut up trolls.

LMAO...

BroncoJoe
03-21-2008, 01:39 PM
Prove you wrong? Please. So if I say pigs can fly, you have to prove me wrong?

Get a grip.

Speaking of trolls....

MHCBill
03-21-2008, 02:01 PM
Unbelievable.

Prove me wrong !!!!

You can't.


Shut up trolls.Well this seems like a perfectly reasonable, logical, and legitimate argument.

Nice post Bidiotlah Bidiotlah Bidiotlah

topscribe
03-21-2008, 02:07 PM
Calling each other "troll" and "idiot" is a violation of the Rules and Guidelines.

This will stop here, or I will start handing out some infraction notices.

-----

GEM
03-21-2008, 02:21 PM
Unbelievable.

Prove me wrong !!!!

You can't.


Shut up trolls.

So we're supposed to prove your OPINION wrong? :rolleyes:

topscribe
03-21-2008, 02:22 PM
I don't see this going anywhere.

Thread closed.

-----

BOSSHOGG30
03-21-2008, 02:22 PM
Coke is better than Pepsi....

Prove me wrong !!!!

You can't.

Superchop 7
03-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Here's the deal,

(feel free to express any adolescent comment you may have)

My best surmation of a holding company for suite revenue would be PDB enterprises, a subsidiary of PDB sports holdings, in which Pat and his siblings have equal voting shares.

Pat bought the team for around 70 million, he added another 100 million for the stadium, the Bronco's are worth 994 million.

He also worked out a "sweetheart" deal with Elway that would pay him over 5 million dollars if the stadium issue was passed, he wanted public support from Elway to get the job done and increase revenue and value of the team.

We are not a small market team, we are a middle market team that has sold out for years, Pat has one of the sweetest stadium deals in the NFL. (we voted to pay 75% of the cost of the stadium)

I find it interesting that Pat Bowlen and Dan Snyder "both" closed their wallets at the same time.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-24-2008, 07:26 PM
OK - my adolescent comment will be:

Please provide proof of the following statement from your original post:


He also worked out a "sweetheart" deal with Elway that would pay him over 5 million dollars if the stadium issue was passed, he wanted public support from Elway to get the job done and increase revenue and value of the team.

scott.475
03-24-2008, 07:43 PM
WHO CARES?! Is football not a business? Did I wake up in Cuba or Venezuela today, where business is suddenly owned by the state???

Get over it. Our staff has been top heavy anyway, and the money they spend or don't spend on staff is not part of the salary cap #s.

Geez. Pat has NEVER shown that he does not want to win, unlike a few other owners who are fine to just remain mediocre or bad. But, he is a business man and is in it to make money. I wish I was in the same position.

Again, get over it.

Also, I don't know if the Denver stadium is one of the sweetest in the NFL, they are ALL sweet deals, and are all funded by the taxpayers in large part. I am not at all saying I agree with that, but it is not at all unusual. In Seattle, we imploded the Kingdome, which we still owed a huge amount on, and within just a few years of spending 10s of millions on roof repairs. Our idiot legislature voted to tap into emergency funds in order to fund Safeco Field, AFTER the state voters voted against it. So Pat took advantage of what is going on across the country...big deal.

SR
03-24-2008, 08:20 PM
Who cares?! If you've got some conspiracy regarding our team's owner and think he's corrupt, get a lawyer and take it up with the team. Personally, I'm grateful for what Pat Bowlen has brought to Denver in terms of football. He's rich and he got that way for a reason.

tubby
03-24-2008, 08:28 PM
So what?

UnderArmour
03-24-2008, 08:51 PM
He does raise a valid question though, Pat and Dan did both close their wallets at the same time. Could it have something to do with the looming uncapped year?

scott.475
03-24-2008, 08:54 PM
By the way, trying to make your company more efficient does not necessarily mean you have a cash flow problem. Businesses that wait for cash flow problems to occur are in big trouble, like Bear Stearns.

If any of us on this board could own and run an NFL team, we would be owning and running an NFL team instead of cheering/jeering our team here.

tubby
03-24-2008, 09:12 PM
Let me help you blah...........

7-9 don't cut it.

Good.

I still like football and the Broncos, particularly Tavis Henry aka the Big Hoss. How bout you? Or are you done?


http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q224/jribbens02/poop7.jpg

underrated29
03-24-2008, 09:20 PM
Maybe he is stashing some cash away for the pending uncapped season, mayb ehe is not. If i was an owner I owuld definitley start a few years in advance for that.

Look at hockey thats what all the owners did, many years in advance for the lockout that did happen.

Business is business, as the owner he has the right to do whatever, whenever he wants, with absolutley no explanation to anybody as long as he is not breaking the law. Which i dont think he is. If he wants to take out more money for himself and blame it on cashflow, so what. He doesnt even have to make the excuse if he doesnt want too.

My only comment would be go find CR- he is good about uncovering conspiracy theories.

scott.475
03-24-2008, 10:17 PM
I'm sure the illuminati are involved somehow...along with the Bilderbergers...

silkamilkamonico
03-24-2008, 10:52 PM
I find it interesting that Pat Bowlen and Dan Snyder "both" closed their wallets at the same time.

If you're hinting towards the lack of free agent involvement, I'm sure he closed the wallet because of Shanahan's previous mishaps with the cap.

His mishaps will cost the Broncos $19 million in dead money towards the cap this coming season.

$19 million.

Roughly 16% of our cap is paid out to people who aren't even on the team.

Yea, I'd close my wallet in a situation like that too.

BeefStew25
03-24-2008, 11:09 PM
CBA, folks. CBA. Let the posturing begin.

slim
03-24-2008, 11:46 PM
LOL...my post was deleted.

I love this place....I really do.

tubby
03-24-2008, 11:50 PM
CBA, folks. CBA. Let the posturing begin.

Bowlen is head and the owners are pissed.

BeefStew25
03-24-2008, 11:54 PM
Bowlen is head and the owners are pissed.

Tags is persona non grata with the owners right now.

BroncoJoe
03-25-2008, 09:46 AM
BFD.

Go post on a Raider, Charger or Chief forum.

Cugel
03-26-2008, 02:10 PM
Take this for what it's worth, PFT rumor mill.

BRONCOS LAY OFF EIGHT EMPLOYEES

A week after NFL Films cut loose nearly 10 percent of its work force, one of the 32 NFL franchises is tightening the belt, too.

Per the Denver Post, the Broncos released eight employees on Wednesday, including director of media relations Paul Kirk and Andrew Mason, the managing editor of the team’s official web site.

“It’s a very, very difficult day when you have to eliminate jobs,” said Broncos’ chief operating officer Joe Ellis. “Especially when loyal, hardworking employees are involved. But our industry is like many others where downsizing and layoffs are required to make the business more effective.”

The moves possibly arise from a cash-flow problem within the franchise. But, clearly, there’s not a profit problem. So why can’t owner Pat Bowlen find a way to take advantage of the fact that he’s in a business that generates plenty of black ink, and that continues to enjoy continuous growth in the value of the operation?

As one league insider suggested, if Bowlen is having short-term money trouble, he should either get a loan (interest rates are down) or he should sell of a slice of the team. A ten-percent chunk should generate $80 million, which could be used to, you know, keep folks employed.

Then again, there’s also a chance that money troubles are being used as a pretext for cleaning out unwanted employees. It’s a fairly common practice – the workers are told that their positions are being eliminated when, in reality, the workers are being eliminated, and then replaced.

Regardless of the reason, it’s unusual to read about these kinds of corporate decisions in an industry that for decades has been doing better and better financially.
I was going to point this out. NFL owners have gotten just amazingly arrogant and assume the public has zero brains or understanding!

Pat Bowlen bought this team for something like $130 million back in the day. It's now worth over $800 million and he's blathering about "cash-flow problems"?

What kind of idiots does he take us for?

Who cares about his cash flow when his Broncos stock has soared nearly 800%?

That's like complaining that you bought Google stock at $30 a share and it went up to $250 a share . . . but they're not paying big dividends! (Whine! Complain!)

If he wants to generate some cash flow he can always sell a bit of his stock (he'd still have majority control) and generate some cash flow.

Otherwise, just shut up with this whining nonsense about how the poor pitiful owners are taking a terrible bath because of bad "cash-flow." :coffee:

BroncoJoe
03-26-2008, 02:12 PM
So, are you saying that the value of the team has increased, but nothing on the debit side of the ledger has changed?

Good grief.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-26-2008, 02:20 PM
So, are you saying that the value of the team has increased, but nothing on the debit side of the ledger has changed?

Good grief.

Of course, players salaries have drastically increased, day to day operation expenses have increased, etc., etc., etc.

Cugel
03-26-2008, 02:21 PM
So, are you saying that the value of the team has increased, but nothing on the debit side of the ledger has changed?

Good grief.

Who cares about the corporate debt? The value of the team is measured in REAL DOLLARS! That $800 plus million is the current value of his stock. That includes an appreciation of all current and probable future corporate liabilities, and past operating profits history, plus probable future profitability.

Taking EVERYTHING into account Bowlen's team is worth over $800 million. He could sell out right now and go buy a small country.

So, enough with the whining about "cash-flow." This presumes that he has to be able to continue to own the team and run it, without selling his stock, and make a living off just the dividend income! That's idiotic!

Nobody does business that way and in any other business people would gape at you with incomprehension if you demanded to operate that way. Many businesses plow their profits back into the company to fuel long-term growth and, accordingly, don't pay large dividends.

People buy those stocks because they believe that the company's operating history promises that their stock will in future be worth more than if the company spent it's earnings in the form of dividends.

Presumably Bowlen pays himself some sort of salary and his revenues from ticket sales aren't down. If he's suffering some current revenue shortfall, the article points out exactly what he can do -- get a damn loan or sell some portion of his interest -- thus converting the increase in stock price to cash right now.

But, forget the whining! :coffee:

BroncoJoe
03-26-2008, 03:14 PM
Still doesn't mean he has positive cash flow. Could he sell the team and walk with $800M? Of course. Doesn't mean squat in terms of running the damn thing and the cost of the day-to-day operations.

LordTrychon
03-26-2008, 03:19 PM
Still doesn't mean he has positive cash flow. Could he sell the team and walk with $800M? Of course. Doesn't mean squat in terms of running the damn thing and the cost of the day-to-day operations.

Exactly.

I've run a business before that was worth millions and had a cash flow problem.

It failed. :salute:


Of course, I personally believe that Bowlen's posturing for the CBA... but still, I think it's ridiculous to criticize a very successful businessman for running his business how he sees fit.


He WOULDN'T be a successful businessman if he just let his company go off and do whatever without occassionally examining his costs.


Edit: It wasn't MY millions... so those of you looking for handouts should still go to Tned...

:laugh:

GEM
03-26-2008, 03:27 PM
Truth speaks.

When you can prove me wrong....let me know.

Trust me....others have tried.

Let's prove your OPINION wrong. You have presented no facts. You don't know what Bowlen uses that company for. You haven't proven anything......STILL. Get over yourself. You aren't the big shot you seem to think you are. A bunch of wtf's and talking in circles and in the end you haven't said anything more than you did in the first thread that got closed.


:rolleyes:

Tned
03-26-2008, 03:41 PM
There is supposedly a cash flow problem.

Hence, the need to lay people off.

He basically is taking money from the team and funneling it elsewhere to give the appearance of cash flow problems.

Does he have the right to do this.

Yes.

But it's shady as hell.

And it isn't the truth.

Are the Broncos a public corporation with their books open for scrutiny? I don't think so, so why would he need to 'funnel' anything?

GEM
03-26-2008, 03:43 PM
Do you own your own business? Did you spend $130M to purchase said business? Do you spend your time chairing committees to try to better the business you purchased? Do you sign the checks to a rookie paying him outlandish amounts of money because that is the norm in a league? Do you sit in on the meetings where tough decisions to let people go are made?

So what if the man makes money in his business. It's a business just like any other and as the sole owner you have the right to fire anyone, using any excuse you want. Would you feel better if he had gone to them and said....Look I think you suck at your job and I'm going to let you go? Even if he did say that.....it's NONE of your business.

We all have this idea because we root for a team or we buy some tickets to a lousy game (albeit, you chose to, no one forced you to) that we have the right to make demands and pass judgement, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

If you don't like it, there's no one forcing your allegiance to the Broncos or anyone else for that matter. Quit whining about the ish. It's old and growing tiresome, as is being called trolls because we don't agree with your OPINION....and because we all have better things to do with our time that do research on some hidden company that the owner of a FOOTBALL team has. We don't watch the sport for the business of it. We LOVE the sport, because it's just that, a sport, entertainment.

Tned
03-26-2008, 03:46 PM
Who cares about the corporate debt? The value of the team is measured in REAL DOLLARS! That $800 plus million is the current value of his stock. That includes an appreciation of all current and probable future corporate liabilities, and past operating profits history, plus probable future profitability.

Taking EVERYTHING into account Bowlen's team is worth over $800 million. He could sell out right now and go buy a small country.



How much debt does he have? Just becuase the team is valued at $800 million, doesn't mean that is what he would get if he sold it. Did he finance any of the stadium himself? What about any of the team facilities? Are they all paid off, or are there outstanding debts.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-26-2008, 03:51 PM
How much debt does he have? Just becuase the team is valued at $800 million, doesn't mean that is what he would get if he sold it. Did he finance any of the stadium himself? What about any of the team facilities? Are they all paid off, or are there outstanding debts.

Good point - Dove Valley - the Bronco's training facility, was NOT funded with taxpayer money.

LordTrychon
03-26-2008, 03:52 PM
How much debt does he have? Just becuase the team is valued at $800 million, doesn't mean that is what he would get if he sold it. Did he finance any of the stadium himself? What about any of the team facilities? Are they all paid off, or are there outstanding debts.

Actually, when you get to be as cool as Mr. Bowlen (I'm sure you will)...


You can pay your bills with notes that say 'Don't worry... I'm worth 800 million!'


;)

tubby
03-26-2008, 03:53 PM
I see threads were merged here, but guys, when I poop in a thread just salute the post and let it go.....preferable to the septic tank. Good day. :salute:


http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q224/jribbens02/poop7.jpg

Npba900
03-26-2008, 08:04 PM
I agree, Bowlen is just posturing. Bowlen and the Broncos Franchise are going to be just fine. Denver is in a rebuilding year and only has the 08 season to get rid of 16-19 million dollars of dead cap money. By 2010, when its time to pay the talented players, Denver will have the money to do so.

Bowlen & Shanahan realize in order for the Franchise to become fiscally healthy, they will simply not sign over priced FA's for 2008 and 2009 or perhaps in 2010 as well.

Denver will build thru the draft and spend the big bucks on the proven players they have drafted and developed.

scott.475
03-26-2008, 10:14 PM
Based on Bowlen's 1984 purchase price of $130 million, in inflation adjusted dollars, the team is worth about $540 million, about a 400% increase over 23 years, not 800%. He probably saved the organization from bankruptcy, as well.

Apparently, based on the arguments I have read here, once a company hired someone, they should never be able to fire them?

Other than speculation from outside the organization, where is the proof there is an actual cash flow problem? Where is there any report of an actual cash flow problem instead of simply streamlining operations? Where?

Also, WHO CARES??? Did Andrew Mason's work help us win games? Did any of the people let go help us win games? I have NO CLUE why people are so worked up about this?

If Pat wants to make an outrageously huge amount of money, so what? So what if he gives himself a raise? All these people just love hating on the folks that risk their own money in the hopes of a big payoff, but are never willing to risk their own toward the same end. Apparently, if you are the Ted Kennedy type and inherit your $$$, that is okay...but if you actually put up your own money in the hopes of making more, your evil.

Gimme a friggin' break!

Denver Native (Carol)
03-26-2008, 10:39 PM
Based on Bowlen's 1984 purchase price of $130 million, in inflation adjusted dollars, the team is worth about $540 million, about a 400% increase over 23 years, not 800%. He probably saved the organization from bankruptcy, as well.

Apparently, based on the arguments I have read here, once a company hired someone, they should never be able to fire them?

Other than speculation from outside the organization, where is the proof there is an actual cash flow problem? Where is there any report of an actual cash flow problem instead of simply streamlining operations? Where?

Also, WHO CARES??? Did Andrew Mason's work help us win games? Did any of the people let go help us win games? I have NO CLUE why people are so worked up about this?

If Pat wants to make an outrageously huge amount of money, so what? So what if he gives himself a raise? All these people just love hating on the folks that risk their own money in the hopes of a big payoff, but are never willing to risk their own toward the same end. Apparently, if you are the Ted Kennedy type and inherit your $$$, that is okay...but if you actually put up your own money in the hopes of making more, your evil.

Gimme a friggin' break!

Yep - I always thought people went into business to make money - silly me :tsk:

Denver Native (Carol)
04-01-2008, 12:12 PM
I prefer reading the facts, rather than speculation:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/31/bowlen-players-getting-too-big-slice-pie/

Broncos, NFL walk financial tightrope

Only moments after announcing the approval of Wayne Huizenga's sale of half his stake in the Miami Dolphins for a reported $550 million, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell stood at the same podium Monday and said the league's franchise owners are operating under "extremely thin margins."

And he offered the Broncos as an example.

The Broncos, who have not added staff to replace two departed assistant head coaches or a fired general manager, also have let eight front-office employees go in what Broncos chief operating officer Joe Ellis has called a "required" move in the team's current economy.

"I think that's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier," Goodell said. "When you have rising costs, the economics of owning and operating a team are extremely thin margins, extremely thin margins, and when you have an environment like we have right now with the economy and costs rising in certain areas, it has an impact."

Layoffs and downsizing, while usually not equal to what one free-agent signee might earn in a season, are uncommon in the NFL.

And when the Broncos, with decades of sellouts in their history, cut staff - the reductions including media relations director Paul Kirk and DenverBroncos.com managing editor Andrew Mason - it draws the attention of other franchises.

NFL Films, which long has chronicled every game for the league, laid off 21 people last month. Some in the league expect other franchises to take similar measures in the coming months.

Goodell and Broncos owner Pat Bowlen have explained away such downsizing, in part, because of a sagging economy on all fronts and the league's current labor deal, signed two years ago, which gives players about 60 percent of NFL revenues, an all-time high.

Owners will have a chance to opt out of the current agreement in November, which would make 2010 the final year of the deal.

"The problem really is the players are getting too big a slice of the pie, so we're having to cut back in some other areas . . . ," Bowlen said. "But the decisions that were made with the staff were made for varying reasons, not all necessarily just economic."

NFL Players Association executive director Gene Upshaw answered with his own strong words earlier this year, saying: "I just don't want the owners to believe that somehow there is a Santa Claus. We're getting 60 percent of the revenues when it's all said and done, and we're not giving any of it back. . . . I think they have to learn to survive on their 40 percent."

Upshaw consistently has maintained the owners could alleviate some of their own difficulties by sharing more revenues between big- and small-market teams.

"They don't like paying (the players), but they really hate paying each other," Upshaw said.

Said Goodell: "I think we knew the economics would change significantly in this deal, that the pendulum would swing very much in favor of the players. I don't think anyone would say that they knew it would swing as significantly as it has. I'm also not sure anyone could have anticipated the current environment that we have right now with the economy."

The Broncos cited rising costs earlier this year when they raised ticket prices 3-10 percent, the seventh time the team has raised prices on at least some of their tickets since winning the Super Bowl to close the 1998 season.

"Certainly, none of us are as healthy as we want to be because player costs are so high," Bowlen said. "Ask any owner right now and they would give you the same answer. The salary cap, the amount of money going to the players in the current system is significantly higher than it was."

The league's salary cap was $85.5 million per team in 2005 compared with $116 million for the upcoming season. In the first year of the salary cap, in 1994, it was just less than $35 million per team.

Goodell also has been pushing for teams to eliminate some of their debt in the coming years.

NightTrainLayne
04-01-2008, 12:35 PM
I can't believe that the owner's ever agreed to 60% for the players. Upshaw can talk about "living with their 40%", but that's a bunch of baloney. Out of "their 40%", the owner's have to pay the coaching staff, and all the front-office people. They have to pick up all the overhead, for whatever buildings their offices are located in, and whatever other expenses they have. The players made out like bandits on this deal, and I fear a major confrontation after this agreement runs out in 2010.

MOtorboat
04-01-2008, 12:52 PM
I can't believe that the owner's ever agreed to 60% for the players. Upshaw can talk about "living with their 40%", but that's a bunch of baloney. Out of "their 40%", the owner's have to pay the coaching staff, and all the front-office people. They have to pick up all the overhead, for whatever buildings their offices are located in, and whatever other expenses they have. The players made out like bandits on this deal, and I fear a major confrontation after this agreement runs out in 2010.

Wasn't it Sprewell that said, "Look, my kids gotta eat..."

OK...just saying.

Lonestar
04-01-2008, 12:53 PM
I can't believe that the owner's ever agreed to 60% for the players. Upshaw can talk about "living with their 40%", but that's a bunch of baloney. Out of "their 40%", the owner's have to pay the coaching staff, and all the front-office people. They have to pick up all the overhead, for whatever buildings their offices are located in, and whatever other expenses they have. The players made out like bandits on this deal, and I fear a major confrontation after this agreement runs out in 2010.


Just think what the costs are for trainers, doctors and all of the supplies and uniform costs they consume each year. While Pat might have gotten a sweetheart deal in the new stadium he is still paying for part of that out of revenues..

I'm not crying for Pat but can see as a business owner myself, all of the little expenses all of a sudden that show up in the mail each month..

Lonestar
04-01-2008, 12:54 PM
Wasn't it Sprewell that said, "Look, my kids gotta eat..."

OK...just saying.


no it was Thenry..:D

NightTrainLayne
04-01-2008, 01:00 PM
Just think what the costs are for trainers, doctors and all of the supplies and uniform costs they consume each year. While Pat might have gotten a sweetheart deal in the new stadium he is still paying for part of that out of revenues..

I'm not crying for Pat but can see as a business owner myself, all of the little expenses all of a sudden that show up in the mail each month..

Unless you run a business, even a small one, you have no appreciation for all the expenses that come with it.

I can't imagine what even the Broncos telephone bill must be each month. I'm sure they pick up the coach's cell phones etc. used for business. Most people don't realize that most utilities, like phone, electric, gas, water, charge a higher commercial rate for businesses than homes. So not only do you use more of these utilities, but on top of it, they charge you more for each unit consumed.

MOtorboat
04-01-2008, 01:05 PM
no it was Thenry..:D

WRONG again...THenry doesn't pay his child support. :laugh:

Lonestar
04-01-2008, 01:07 PM
WRONG again...THenry doesn't pay his child support. :laugh:



kids still have to eat.. whether he is a scum bag or not..

Denver Native (Carol)
04-01-2008, 01:20 PM
I can't believe that the owner's ever agreed to 60% for the players. Upshaw can talk about "living with their 40%", but that's a bunch of baloney. Out of "their 40%", the owner's have to pay the coaching staff, and all the front-office people. They have to pick up all the overhead, for whatever buildings their offices are located in, and whatever other expenses they have. The players made out like bandits on this deal, and I fear a major confrontation after this agreement runs out in 2010.

So many expenses - i.e. - cost for the private airplane, hotels, uniforms, etc., etc., etc.

MOtorboat
04-01-2008, 01:21 PM
So many expenses - i.e. - cost for the private airplane, hotels, uniforms, etc., etc., etc.

Yeah, but it's just not fair that not every kicker can afford a Bentley. He needs him some bling, bling.

NightTrainLayne
04-01-2008, 01:22 PM
So many expenses - i.e. - cost for the private airplane, hotels, uniforms, etc., etc., etc.

Yes. Hadn't thought about travelling expenses, but I bet the players get a per diem in addition to all the hotel costs, and travelling that is not included in their salaries.

What else can we think of? Advertising/Marketing would be a huge expense.

MOtorboat
04-01-2008, 01:26 PM
:werd:

http://forums.railbait.com/images/smilies/afro.gif

Straight Cash Homey

Denver Native (Carol)
04-01-2008, 01:34 PM
Yes. Hadn't thought about travelling expenses, but I bet the players get a per diem in addition to all the hotel costs, and travelling that is not included in their salaries.

What else can we think of? Advertising/Marketing would be a huge expense.

What about the food during training camp - I could not believe when I not ONLY read what their meals consist of, but the AMOUNT of food they go thru.

AND, who paid for all of the training equipment they have at Dove Valley? AND, the "bubble" I believe it is called - where they can practice when it is bad weather. And you not only have their game uniforms, but all of the stuff they wear during practices.

Lonestar
04-01-2008, 01:34 PM
Yes. Hadn't thought about travelling expenses, but I bet the players get a per diem in addition to all the hotel costs, and travelling that is not included in their salaries.

What else can we think of? Advertising/Marketing would be a huge expense.


Think how much they put out on their web site, broncos country mania and the staff they need to maintain it.. The actually costs for computer time. Film scouting dept, wait up till two years ago they did not use one..

Maybe this year they will charge admission to training camp workouts maybe someone out passing the hat..

weazel
04-01-2008, 02:11 PM
WRONG again...THenry doesn't pay his child support. :laugh:

what is the over/under on this years "babies for Henry" lotto?

MOtorboat
04-01-2008, 02:11 PM
what is the over/under on this years "babies for Henry" lotto?

2.5

scott.475
04-01-2008, 09:59 PM
Upshaw sure has become and arrogant jerk.