Darren McFadden

[WARHORSE]

One thing we havent considered much at at, is whether the Broncos view McFadden as the number one prospect on their board over the rest of the players, or even as a RB. If Denver has McFadden listed ahead of Mendenhall and Stewart, and McFadden fell a little, how would you feel if the Broncos took McFadden?

From Scouts Inc.

Strengths: Phenomenal athlete. Possesses good height and adequate bulk (better upper-body than lower-body). Rare burst for his size; no play better illustrates that second-gear better than his 73-yard touchdown run in the third quarter versus LSU. He runs with good vision and great patience but explodes through the line of scrimmage once he finds the crease. Very few NFL runners possess his type of second-gear to bounce runs outside and to run away from defenders in the open field. Very fluid in space and can change directions without losing much momentum at all. He can be a powerful runner with a full head of steam. Exceptional stiff arm. Very strong upper body. Keeps his legs pumping in traffic and will break many attempted arm tackles. Displays outstanding balance. Will gain lots of yards after contact simply because he bounces off the tackler and regains his balance instead of going down. Lacks ideal experience as a receiver but is fluid enough to adjust to poorly thrown ball and displays very soft hands for a RB. Can also be an occasional passing threat in the NFL, as seen in his dual-threat role as the signal caller in the Razorbacks' Wild Hog formation.

Weaknesses: He runs a bit high and his lower-body is a bit lean. Has never been forced to carry a full 25-30 carry throughout a full season in college. Had carried the ball more than 30 times in just five games during his three seasons at Arkansas. Ran out of gas late in Alabama game (2007). Lacks ideal experience as a receiver. Needs some polishing as a route runner. Also could be more aggressive as blocker; must learn to attack with better leverage. Character must also be studied. Is there more to the minor off-the-field incidents than we are led to believe?


To make a case for McFadden in Denver, his ability to explode through the hole and set DBs on their heels immediately and then outrun them with ease would mean a homerun threat that is staggering. Although I havent seen him run hard between the tackles much, what is becoming more evident to me the more I watch him, is the fact that he gets through the line so quickly that most LBs and DBs take improper angles on the guy. Then, its too late. I havent looked at him since earlier in the year, but have looked at all the video I can today. His ability is eye opening, and I can see why so many people have him ranked so high. I wasnt afraid much of him going to the black hole, but now Im a little apprehensive.

The man can really run. I sure dont want to see him breaking off 80 and 90 yarders against Denver. Especially when the Fade will be in their second year of zone blocking.


To think of him actually playing here, the first thing I think about is his impact on the lockeroom. He does not seem like a guy who you want to be a leader in your huddle. Off field issues are those of childishness and immaturity. I think him stacked alongside Brandon might be a little too much. A little arrogant, and doesnt seem to be a 'elevate those around you' type.

To place him next to Mendenhall (the second ranked RB), Id have to say Rashards character is far and away better, and would be a team leader of the ilk you want.

How would you feel if Denver drafted McFadden by say, going up to get him, or even if he by some crazy means, fell to us at 12?

[shank]

not happy for the same reasons you stated. he's talented, but with the number of times broncos have been in trouble lately, i am not willing to take a guy with character concernes, especially in the 1st.

stewart or mendenhall if we go RB in the 1st. ARGUABLY slightly less talented, but of much better character, no-brainer as far as i'm concerned.

if mcfadden is there at 12, trade down.

[Tned]

Take him in a heart beat. Off field problems are nothing new. Rod Smith got in trouble for domestic abuse, and he turned out pretty good. It's a fact of life in the NFL, there just aren't many boy scouts out there.

I watched enough Arkansas games on TV the last three years, watching this guy dominate even when the defense 'knew' he was going to be carrying the ball. He would do wonders for Jay in the passing game, because we would have a valid running threat again. Just just a couple yards here or there, but a guy that can go the distance every time he touches the ball, and the defense will know that and have to choose to defend McFadden or Jay/WRs, but most will not be able to do both.

In addition, if we give him punt/kick return duties, we could have a legitimate returner for the first time in recent or distant memory. I'm not sure Denver would want to consistantly use him in that role once he took over the starting RB job, but if they chose to, he would give us a return game we have not had before.

Having said all of that, I don't think the Broncos should move up to get him, as there are too many other needs to fill. However, if he fell to 12 and we didn't have to give up more to get him, then I think it is a no brainer to take him. Him, Jay and the other young guys could create an impact offense for years to come.

[claymore]

On NFL Network "Path To The Draft" last night one guy (I forget who) said that 21 out of 21 teams that he had talked to had Mcfadden as the number one guy on the board.

So at best, he falls to eleven.

[Tned]

On NFL Network "Path To The Draft" last night one guy (I forget who) said that 21 out of 21 teams that he had talked to had Mcfadden as the number one guy on the board.

So at best, he falls to eleven.

That's the thing. It's easy for us guys on a message board to talk about all of McFadden's flaws and how Medenhall or Joe Smith is a better RB, but we'll see on draft day, but it sure seems like the organizations, the people that do this for a living, consider him not only the best RB in the draft, but one of the best, if not the best, player coming out.

That is also what makes our "if he falls to 12" talk fairly moot, since it is hard to imagine too many scenarios where that happens.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'd be fine w/ either of the 3 RBs at 12, but want to trade up for none of them.

[claymore]

I'd be fine w/ either of the 3 RBs at 12, but want to trade up for none of them.Is there anyone you would trade up for?

I would love to have either of the Longs, but think it would be really cool from a drama standpoint to get Chris Long. Under the circumstances with our DE spots somewhat solidified, I know it wouldnt work, or happen.

But the Drama that would ensue with the Raiders would be awesome.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Is there anyone you would trade up for?

I would love to have either of the Longs, but think it would be really cool from a drama standpoint to get Chris Long. Under the circumstances with our DE spots somewhat solidified, I know it wouldnt work, or happen.

But the Drama that would ensue with the Raiders would be awesome.

The only players I would trade up for are Ellis and Dorsey...and that is ONLY if they are within reach. I define within reach as just ahead of Cincy and New Orleans. I would trade up w/ Baltimore, who needs a CB, by giving em Foxxy and a 4th. Same w/ NE, I don't wanna lose picks, but I'd give Foxxy and a mid/late pick.

[claymore]

The only players I would trade up for are Ellis and Dorsey...and that is ONLY if they are within reach. I define within reach as just ahead of Cincy and New Orleans. I would trade up w/ Baltimore, who needs a CB, by giving em Foxxy and a 4th. Same w/ NE, I don't wanna lose picks, but I'd give Foxxy and a mid/late pick.Foxxy would fit real well in NE. Ellis and Dorsey kinda scare me, but if either fell to 12 I wouldnt cry. I figure regardless, its kind of hard to screw up the #12 if we stand pat.

Atlanta and Baltimore are my main candidates to take Matt Ryan, so If Ryan is still there at Baltimore's pick, they would trade back.

[Drill-N-Fill]

I officially have a man crush on Gholston. He's the only guy I'm sold on 100%.

[Scarface]

For all the crap people talk about McFadden if we somehow ended up drafting him people would be doing cartwheels on this board.

[Skinny]

If Denver has McFadden listed ahead of Mendenhall and Stewart, and McFadden fell a little, how would you feel if the Broncos took McFadden?I'd be alright with McFadden if somehow by the grace of the football Gods he fell to us or we traded up to get him. I see him as a special talent that's simply out of reach for us.

Though i personally hope we don't select a RB in the 1st round, McFadden is an unbeleivable talent who has the ability to take it to the house every time he touches the ball. Combine a RB like McFadden with a Offensive mind like Mikey in this Offense where you know he's going to get his touches and your looking at the Rookie of the Year. Who would'nt want that ya know ...

[Bronco9798]

For all the crap people talk about McFadden if we somehow ended up drafting him people would be doing cartwheels on this board.

I've never been able to do a cartwheel. I wonder if I should start practicing?

[Scarface]

I've never been able to do a cartwheel. I wonder if I should start practicing?

I wouldn't worry about it since he's not falling to us.

[Bronco9798]

I wouldn't worry about it since he's not falling to us.

OK, I'll quit then. :D Tried my first one and busted my ass and head.

[Scarface]

OK, I'll quit then. :D Tried my first one and busted my ass and head.

You didn't crash into a tv though right?!

[Bronco9798]

You didn't crash into a tv though right?!

Nope,,moved it out of the way. I learned from BM. :D

[Drill-N-Fill]

I wouldn't worry about it since he's not falling to us.


Quit being so negative, we almost drafted Calvin Johnson last year :D

[Lonestar]

Not a chance in hell I would want the clown..

Character issues and frankly at 210 pounds I do not see him being the stud buffalo that mikey wants . He may have been good playing in college but he now has to deal with real football DL every week in the NFL unless of course he gets drafted by OAK and faces us twice a year..

Having a flock of illegitimate kids INHO relegates him to the bottom of the RB stack.. We already have the king of fornication on the squad I'd hate to have them completing in this area also..

[lex]

Id take him in a heartbeat and Id also trade up for him depending on how expensive it is. Warhorse gave some good analysis. McFadden and Cutler could both play off of each other tremednously. I think the character is a little overstated. What you dont hear about is how he plays well while hurt and doesnt really complain about it. He had bruised ribs in the middle of the season but kept playing and didnt complain about it.

[Tned]

Not a chance in hell I would want the clown..

Character issues and frankly at 210 pounds I do not see him being the stud buffalo that mikey wants . He may have been good playing in college but he now has to deal with real football DL every week in the NFL unless of course he gets drafted by OAK and faces us twice a year..

Having a flock of illegitimate kids INHO relegates him to the bottom of the RB stack.. We already have the king of fornication on the squad I'd hate to have them completing in this area also..

If you want to focus on character, then the NFL is a bad passion to have. There are few saints in the NFL, unless you are grading with a big curve.

There have been plenty of very productive 210 pound backs, and who knows what he will settle in at with an NFL strength coach. The only thing that will be keeping him from competing for the rushing record each year is the fact he will almost certainly be playing on a horrible team, unless NE snags him or Dallas makes a big trade to land him.

Did the Broncos dump Smith after he beat up his girl friend? You know, the one he had children with out of wedlock?

These guys aren't role models, they are athletes that entertain us. Give me a back capable of rushing for 2000 yards, and I'm happy. Hopefully, he takes care of his kids with some of that signing bonus.

[TXBRONC]

If you want to focus on character, then the NFL is a bad passion to have. There are few saints in the NFL, unless you are grading with a big curve.

There have been plenty of very productive 210 pound backs, and who knows what he will settle in at with an NFL strength coach. The only thing that will be keeping him from competing for the rushing record each year is the fact he will almost certainly be playing on a horrible team, unless NE snags him or Dallas makes a big trade to land him.

Did the Broncos dump Smith after he beat up his girl friend? You know, the one he had children with out of wedlock?

These guys aren't role models, they are athletes that entertain us. Give me a back capable of rushing for 2000 yards, and I'm happy. Hopefully, he takes care of his kids with some of that signing bonus.

I seem to remember a running back that Denver had that was 211 lbs and he ended up rushing 2,008 yards in a single season.

[Lonestar]

If you want to focus on character, then the NFL is a bad passion to have. There are few saints in the NFL, unless you are grading with a big curve.

There have been plenty of very productive 210 pound backs, and who knows what he will settle in at with an NFL strength coach. The only thing that will be keeping him from competing for the rushing record each year is the fact he will almost certainly be playing on a horrible team, unless NE snags him or Dallas makes a big trade to land him.

Did the Broncos dump Smith after he beat up his girl friend? You know, the one he had children with out of wedlock?

These guys aren't role models, they are athletes that entertain us. Give me a back capable of rushing for 2000 yards, and I'm happy. Hopefully, he takes care of his kids with some of that signing bonus.


One thinks that Rod has become a model citizen since that one incident almost decade ago.. SO I'd not use that as a equivalent argument..

Most likely with his ego and money he will continue to be a less than an exemplary role model.. Than take care of his illegitimate kids..

We have taken our last character deficient player I hope..

As for being able to rush for 2000 yard that is highly unlikely at 210 pounds. If he puts on alot of weight he is no longer the speed merchant he is and if he doe not he will not be able to handle the punishment that most NFL DL and 240+ linebackers are gonna hit him with.

I'll take a 230+ pound back any day for mikeys stud buffalo routine.. More likely he will be around in 5 years..

[TXBRONC]

One thinks that Rod has become a model citizen since that one incident almost decade ago.. SO I'd not use that as a equivalent argument..

Most likely with his ego and money he will continue to be a less than an exemplary role model.. Than take care of his illegitimate kids..

We have taken our last character deficient player I hope..

As for being able to rush for 2000 yard that is highly unlikely at 210 pounds. If he puts on alot of weight he is no longer the speed merchant he is and if he doe not he will not be able to handle the punishment that most NFL DL and 240+ linebackers are gonna hit him with.

I'll take a 230+ pound back any day for mikeys stud buffalo routine.. More likely he will be around in 5 years..

This doesn't show a lot of insight and ingnores the point. Rod had illegitment child and he slapped the child's mother around. Most people have the understanding that more than likely that incident didn't just come out of nowhere.

You're being very hypocritical about McFadden. You blow off Smith similar incident because he eventually straightened up. McFadden on the other hand you've already judged as being incapable of straightening up.

And again you missed a being 210 lbs and rushing for 2,000 yard. It's already been done in our offense Terrell Davis' playing weight was 211 lbs.

[WARHORSE]

OK, I'll quit then. :D Tried my first one and busted my ass and head.


Thats a good sign Kev. If you had completed the cartwheel, a huge Budlight beercan would have fallen from the sky and flattened you.


Real men dont cartwheel.




I never saw John Wayne do a cartwheel.:salute:


lol........

[WARHORSE]

Not a chance in hell I would want the clown..

Character issues and frankly at 210 pounds I do not see him being the stud buffalo that mikey wants . He may have been good playing in college but he now has to deal with real football DL every week in the NFL unless of course he gets drafted by OAK and faces us twice a year..

Having a flock of illegitimate kids INHO relegates him to the bottom of the RB stack.. We already have the king of fornication on the squad I'd hate to have them completing in this area also..

Lol.................



If we drafted him and he took his first touch to the house 85 yards because he could fly through a small hole in the line, break into the open and outrun everyone, I would pay money to see what you were doing.



Small grin cuttin the corners of yer mouth perhaps?:lol:

Maybe tryin hard to purse those lips tight while yer eyes lit up like xmas trees?



lol..............

[Lonestar]

This doesn't show a lot of insight and ingnores the point. Rod had illegitment child and he slapped the child's mother around. Most people have the understanding that more than likely that incident didn't just come out of nowhere.

You're being very hypocritical about McFadden. You blow off Smith similar incident because he eventually straightened up. McFadden on the other hand you've already judged as being incapable of straightening up.

And again you missed a being 210 lbs and rushing for 2,000 yard. It's already been done in our offense Terrell Davis' playing weight was 211 lbs.

It was a long time ago with Rod. Did I excuse it? NO.

Lets see let me repeat what I actually said.
One thinks that Rod has become a model citizen since that one incident almost decade ago.. SO I'd not use that as a equivalent argument..

Comparing mcfadden a top five pick with Rod an UDFA is nothing less than out there. I suspect that the millions he gets up front will go to his head, now which one only time will tell.

Perhaps mikey and crew have learned their lessons here with character or lack thereof. I will repeat how I feel about character issues.

We have taken our last character deficient player I hope..

TD weighed for most of career 207, and he lasted how many years? Had the ACL not been torn the degenerative knee would have gotten him sooner or later.. And BTW he actually had a real OLINE in front of him and a real OLINE coach something we do not currently have of either.

I hope mikey will not succumb to the petty desire for instant gratification and draft a RB. But goes for someone we really need a stud DT or OLT on day one.

[Lonestar]

Lol.................



If we drafted him and he took his first touch to the house 85 yards because he could fly through a small hole in the line, break into the open and outrun everyone, I would pay money to see what you were doing.



Small grin cuttin the corners of yer mouth perhaps?:lol:

Maybe tryin hard to purse those lips tight while yer eyes lit up like xmas trees?



lol..............

I'd be much happier to get a real OLINE in front of our normal compliment of RB that would most likely duplicate the scenario you have above but with real holes at the LOS

I'd also prefer to have a real DLine that can actually put pressure on a QB and stop the run.. Afterall Defense actually winds championships..

Sorry NO mcfadden for me..

[broncogirl7]

I think we could pick up a decent RB in the later rounds. We need to concentrate our early round picks on WR, LB, S, T, DT.

[lex]

I think we could pick up a decent RB in the later rounds. We need to concentrate our early round picks on WR, LB, S, T, DT.

Perhaps you werent paying attention to free agency but we actually signed 2 LBs and 2 Ss (3 including Lynch). Not only that but what youre saying about RB could also be said about WR when you consider we've had more luck with mid-late round receivers and our first round picks have pretty much been busts. RB is actually a safer pick in the first for us than WR. And regarding T, Balmer is not worth taking at 12.

[WARHORSE]

IF, that is a big IF, McFadden isnt a good charactered person, then I wouldnt want him regardless of his talent. That being said, I dont think hes done anything at all that any young kid growing up playing football hasnt done. He got into some scrapes. Big deal. The real test will be how he responds to his own mistakes. If he sees himself as untouchable, IM sure that he will have more problems in the future. But if he takes a step or two back and looks at his position with some maturity, then he may just be a person who ends up being what you want him to be.

I'll bet my bottom dollar Jay Cutler has been in a few scrapes off the field.

[Lonestar]

IF, that is a big IF, McFadden isnt a good charactered person, then I wouldnt want him regardless of his talent. That being said, I dont think hes done anything at all that any young kid growing up playing football hasnt done. He got into some scrapes. Big deal. The real test will be how he responds to his own mistakes. If he sees himself as untouchable, IM sure that he will have more problems in the future. But if he takes a step or two back and looks at his position with some maturity, then he may just be a person who ends up being what you want him to be.

I'll bet my bottom dollar Jay Cutler has been in a few scrapes off the field.



Why chance it when there are others that have shown maturity all ready? Why give him the chance to screw up, let someone else deal with it.. We have had our share of clowns already NONE of them have cleaned up their act. They all so far have cost us at least reputation if not huge dead cap space dollars..

Jay was a vigin till he moved to DEN..

[shank]

Why chance it when there are others that have shown maturity all ready? Why give him the chance to screw up, let someone else deal with it.. We have had our share of clowns already NONE of them have cleaned up their act. They all so far have cost us at least reputation if not huge dead cap space dollars..

Jay was a vigin till he moved to DEN..

really?! where'd you hear that?

i agree with you though. war, you say that he'd have to take a step back and look at his situation with maturity, and that's just not something dmac has displayed. he seems immature, and i don't think he'll handle a big pay day well.

with how often we've been burned by our players lately, i'm just not willing to take guys who have character questions, especially if they include run ins with the law... focus on high character guys and hard workers that don't have the inflated ego that mcfadden is bound to have (already has).

[lex]

Its amazing. We have 9 picks at this point and people are still talking about trading down. McFadden and Cutler could both potentially be HOFers when you consider that in McFadden you probably have the best RB to come out of the SEC since Bo Jackson and with Cutler you probably have the best QB talent since Manning. We could have lightning in a jug with McFadden and people are talking about having 10 picks instead of 9. Unbelievable.

[Lonestar]

We have 9 picks at this point and people are still talking about trading down.


but having seven 4 through 7s really do not mean as much as two 2 through3's..

[shank]

Its amazing. We have 9 picks at this point and people are still talking about trading down. We could have lightning in a jug with McFadden and people are talking about having 10 picks instead of 9. Unbelievable. McFadden and Cutler could both potentially be HOFers.

only 2 of those 9 picks are in the first 3 rounds, trading down is about increasing that number and allowing more flexibility overall.

as far as i see it, there are about 300 soon to be nfl players who could potentially be HOFers.:coffee:

[Tned]

but having seven 4 through 7s really do not mean as much as two 2 through3's..

BUt, having one D-Mac trumps an extra 2 through 3 by a long shot.

[slim]

Over-rated.

[lex]

but having seven 4 through 7s really do not mean as much as two 2 through3's..

Yeah, youre right. Those picks are throw aways. Maybe we should use our 4ths to trade up to the 3rd and our 5ths to trade up into the 4th and combine our 7ths to trade into the 6th. If those picks are throw aways, you can probably do that. So youd have 1,2,3,4,6,6.

You could have something like:
1. Darren McFadden
2. Dre Moore
3. Jordy Nelson
4. Jon Goff
6. Barry Richardson
6. Taylor Mehlhaff

[lex]

only 2 of those 9 picks are in the first 3 rounds, trading down is about increasing that number and allowing more flexibility overall.

as far as i see it, there are about 300 soon to be nfl players who could potentially be HOFers.:coffee:

Just trade up then. We have 2 4ths and 2 5ths.

[Lonestar]

Yeah, youre right. Those picks are throw aways. Maybe we should use our 4ths to trade up to the 3rd and our 5ths to trade up into the 4th and combine our 7ths to trade into the 6th. If those picks are throw aways, you can probably do that. So youd have 1,2,3,4,6,6.e


Easier said than done

[Lonestar]

BUt, having one D-Mac trumps an extra 2 through 3 by a long shot.

Only IYHO :salute:

I hope mikey is smarter than adding another questionable player to this lockeroom..

[lex]

e


Easier said than done

Kind of like trading down from 12.

[shank]

BUt, having one D-Mac trumps an extra 2 through 3 by a long shot.

you'd take dmac over stewart/mendenhall and laws/manningham/baker/sims/henderson/nicks/bennett/moore/mayo/wheeler/nelson or any of the other very good prospects in rds 2-3?

cause there's no way in hell i would.

[shank]

Kind of like trading down from 12.

i never said it would be easy to trade down lex, i don't think anyone ever did that you are usually picking this argument with...

i'm just saying that the situation could possibly present itself, and am leaving it open as an option, and an option that in the right situation i would prefer. if we stay at 12 i personally would be ecstatic with stewart/mendenhall/williams, but have a gut feeling that if we stay at 12 we will end up reaching for someone that's not one of those three guys... it may be baseless, but i don't see any draft letdown as baseless here in denver.

[lex]

i never said it would be easy to trade down lex, i don't think anyone ever did that you are usually picking this argument with...
i'm just saying that the situation could possibly present itself, and am leaving it open as an option, and an option that in the right situation i would prefer. if we stay at 12 i personally would be ecstatic with stewart/mendenhall/williams, but have a gut feeling that if we stay at 12 we will end up reaching for someone that's not one of those three guys... it may be baseless, but i don't see any draft letdown as baseless here in denver.

Actually someone else brought up this point about combining our 4s, 5s, and 7s to trade up and I just pointed out it cuts both ways. This point wasnt introduced into the discussion by me.

As Ive also said, Id be all for Mendenhall at 12. I think thats a spot that fairly reflects his value. I also like Williams at 12, but Harris is in the fold.

[shank]

Actually someone else brought up this point about combining our 4s, 5s, and 7s to trade up and I just pointed out it cuts both ways. This point wasnt introduced into the discussion by me.

As Ive also said, Id be all for Mendenhall at 12. I think thats a spot that fairly reflects his value. I also like Williams at 12, but Harris is in the fold.

if you take the time to notice, i high fived that post of yours because it is a valid point. i'll say it again: i never said that trading down would be easy. but i think it would be easier (potentially) to trade down from 12 than to trade our later picks up. trading up usually means that you are giving more than equal value because the other team holds the bargaining power. in trading down, we would have that bargaining power, and would leave an exchange with a better deal that going the other direction. all we need is interest from another team, which we can't possibly predict until draft day; but as we all know from previous drafts, 1st round trades are prominent, and i don't see how you can write one involving us off as an impossibility.

i feel the same as you. i know because i already said it. i would love stewart, williams, or mendenhall at 12. my preference is RB, but because of his surgery would LOVE the idea of trading down a bit and still being able to nab him (maximizing value). i would also love to get williams, but i too believe that harris could be our guy, and that shanny sees no need to go OT that high. i hope so at least, because that would allow us to get more weapons for cutler early in the draft.

[Tned]

you'd take dmac over stewart/mendenhall and laws/manningham/baker/sims/henderson/nicks/bennett/moore/mayo/wheeler/nelson or any of the other very good prospects in rds 2-3?

cause there's no way in hell i would.

Based on how well I have seen our 3rd round picks pan out over the last couple decades, I would have to seriously consider taking a sure thing like D-Mac if the cost was just losing or not gaining an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick, which was the premiss I was responding to.

[shank]

Based on how well I have seen our 3rd round picks pan out over the last couple decades, I would have to seriously consider taking a sure thing like D-Mac if the cost was just losing or not gaining an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick, which was the premiss I was responding to.

see, i think that stewart/mendenhall are sure things without the character concerns of mcfadden. i'll take one sure thing, and a chance at another impact player (as small as it may be here in denver) over one sure thing with maturity issues.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I will get a lot of heat for this, I know a lot of people are really down on Benson. Chicago is interested in McFadden. This means they aren't high on Benson anymore. I would love to see Denver trade a 4th or 5th to the Bears for Benson. This would give Chicago a little more ammo to move up for McFadden and Denver would have a good young runningback.

[Tned]

see, i think that stewart/mendenhall are sure things without the character concerns of mcfadden. i'll take one sure thing, and a chance at another impact player (as small as it may be here in denver) over one sure thing with maturity issues.

I know a lot of people on this board think that about Mendenhall and Stewart, and they might be right. Since I don't watch much college ball other than the Razorback games that are televised and I have seen McFadden play, I have to go by what I have seen of him, and what the 'experts' are saying.

Based on most of what I have read (articles and mock drafts), McFadden is the clear number one back. Also, much of the criticism of him (can't run inside for instance) are clearly coming from people that didn't watch many of his games.

Either way, it is pretty moot, because it's hard to imagine many situations where he drops to 12.

[shank]

I will get a lot of heat for this, I know a lot of people are really down on Benson. Chicago is interested in McFadden. This means they aren't high on Benson anymore. I would love to see Denver trade a 4th or 5th to the Bears for Benson. This would give Chicago a little more ammo to move up for McFadden and Denver would have a good young runningback.

i have to say boss, but that is extremely arguable.

my roommate is a bears fan and he HATES benson. every bears game i have watched, i can easily see why. the guy is useless. i'd rather use the 4th/5th on a guy like xavier omon than on benson.

there's the first wave of heat lol


EDIT: although i just realized how hilarious it would be if we got benson and he played great here. man that would piss my roommate off lol.

[shank]

I know a lot of people on this board think that about Mendenhall and Stewart, and they might be right. Since I don't watch much college ball other than the Razorback games that are televised and I have seen McFadden play, I have to go by what I have seen of him, and what the 'experts' are saying.

Based on most of what I have read (articles and mock drafts), McFadden is the clear number one back. Also, much of the criticism of him (can't run inside for instance) are clearly coming from people that didn't watch many of his games.

Either way, it is pretty moot, because it's hard to imagine many situations where he drops to 12.

any of the 3 could potentially be amazing in our system. imo though, why even risk mcfadden's character concerns when our players have been burning the team so badly lately with dumb/bad decisions and run ins with the law?

you're right that the discussion is moo (like a cow's opinion, it just doesn't matter), but if we took mcfadden if he dropped to 12, with the option of trading down on the board, i would go insane.

it's almost in the same vein as trading up for moss last year when anthony spencer (a player on par, arguably someone better/slightly worse by many) was still on the board. there's no way i can see us being better off with moss alone than if we had spencer and whoever we could have gotten in the 3rd and 6th...

now if mcfadden drops to 12 and there are no offers for us to trade down, it becomes a much closer race, and i can't see shanny passing on him, but with his character concerns and my belief that mendenhall/stewart will be very successful in our system, i still would probably avoid the risk. tough call though.

[turftoad]

For what it's worth. After his pro day most NFL teams are NOT as worried about his character as they were before.

[shank]

For what it's worth. After his pro day most NFL teams are NOT as worried about his character as they were before.

i wasn't worried about marcus thomas' character until a couple weeks ago either.

it's easy to SAY the right things. almost none of these guys prove that they can do it, and i believe that it's rare for people to change their habits/tendencies.

[BOSSHOGG30]

i have to say boss, but that is extremely arguable.

my roommate is a bears fan and he HATES benson. every bears game i have watched, i can easily see why. the guy is useless. i'd rather use the 4th/5th on a guy like xavier omon than on benson.

there's the first wave of heat lol

Well I like Benson because I really feel that he has in bad in Chicago. They have horrible QB play and last year not only that but the offensive line was horrible. The one year that Benson got some carries Thomas Jones was also there. The QB play was ok and the offensive line was good. Benson was actually doing better than Thomas Jones and by the end of the year Benson was getting more carries. I think this gave Chicago enough faith in Benson to trade Thomas Jones to the Jets. Problem is after they traded Jones the Bears Offensive line and QB play have hit rock bottom. I really believe this is a major problem in Benson productivity over the past year or two.

I also think Benson would do very good in the Broncos ZBS. He isn't the flashy runner a lot of people like but in the ZBS his running style would be very effective.

[lex]

any of the 3 could potentially be amazing in our system. imo though, why even risk mcfadden's character concerns when our players have been burning the team so badly lately with dumb/bad decisions and run ins with the law?

you're right that the discussion is moo (like a cow's opinion, it just doesn't matter), but if we took mcfadden if he dropped to 12, with the option of trading down on the board, i would go insane.

it's almost in the same vein as trading up for moss last year when anthony spencer (a player on par, arguably someone better/slightly worse by many) was still on the board. there's no way i can see us being better off with moss alone than if we had spencer and whoever we could have gotten in the 3rd and 6th...

now if mcfadden drops to 12 and there are no offers for us to trade down, it becomes a much closer race, and i can't see shanny passing on him, but with his character concerns and my belief that mendenhall/stewart will be very successful in our system, i still would probably avoid the risk. tough call though.

Here's one reason Id rather take McFadden at 12 if he was available, which I seriously doubt. People talk about how any running back can be good in our system. In McFadden you have a guy who can be GREAT. But because "any RB" can be good in our offense, it doesnt hurt as much IF McFadden succumbs to pitfalls. But the potential for greatness is too immense to pass him up...and the down side, is putting someone else in who, though not even close to as good, can still be productive.

But like I said, I think his character concerns are overstated. Its not that Im downplaying the couple of events that have happened but when you also look at the fact that he played through injuries, didnt complain, and played well, that speaks favorably of his character. Ive never really heard him make any excuses or deflect blame at his teammates and considering Arkansas had no passing game his time there, there was ample opportunity.

[JONtheBRONCO]

I will get a lot of heat for this, I know a lot of people are really down on Benson. Chicago is interested in McFadden. This means they aren't high on Benson anymore. I would love to see Denver trade a 4th or 5th to the Bears for Benson. This would give Chicago a little more ammo to move up for McFadden and Denver would have a good young runningback.

Boss, come on man... We don't want Benson... We want Mendenhall or Stewart... Actually, the RB I'd love to see in orange and navy is Jamaal Charles, but thats just me.

[lex]

Well I like Benson because I really feel that he has in bad in Chicago. They have horrible QB play and last year not only that but the offensive line was horrible. The one year that Benson got some carries Thomas Jones was also there. The QB play was ok and the offensive line was good. Benson was actually doing better than Thomas Jones and by the end of the year Benson was getting more carries. I think this gave Chicago enough faith in Benson to trade Thomas Jones to the Jets. Problem is after they traded Jones the Bears Offensive line and QB play have hit rock bottom. I really believe this is a major problem in Benson productivity over the past year or two.

I also think Benson would do very good in the Broncos ZBS. He isn't the flashy runner a lot of people like but in the ZBS his running style would be very effective.

No way.

[Tned]

i wasn't worried about marcus thomas' character until a couple weeks ago either.

it's easy to SAY the right things. almost none of these guys prove that they can do it, and i believe that it's rare for people to change their habits/tendencies.

It's a little tough to compare Thomas and D-Mac. I don't recall D-Mac ever getting suspended, certainly not kicked off the team. He got into a scuffle in a piano bar, and there was some question about an escalade he was driving, which might have been bought for his mother by and agent. I think he was pulled over once with pot in the car, and he apparently got one or more girls pregnant. So, I guess you can grab all those things, wrap them up and state that he has character issues which will effect him on the field, or you can look at the fact that whether he had bruised ribs that required a flackjacket or was healthy, he was out there running hard every time they called his number.

So, I would take him in a heartbeat, because he would immediately make our offense better. There are few players that truely can take it the distance on every play, and he is that type of player. The fact that he can do it inside or outside, makes him more special.

Now, individual player aside, what I would really like to see is the Broncos have a back that is more than a plodder, but one that can also run in a one back set, so we can run more two TE or three WR sets with a single back.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Boss, come on man... We don't want Benson... We want Mendenhall or Stewart... Actually, the RB I'd love to see in orange and navy is Jamaal Charles, but thats just me.

I'm just saying if we don't have one of the top backs as targets... I would much rather a Cedric Benson in the 4th or 5th than a Chauncey Washington. I think everyone knows by now that Jonathan Stewart, Mendenhall, and Charles are my top guys.

[JONtheBRONCO]

I'm just saying if we don't have one of the top backs as targets... I would much rather a Cedric Benson in the 4th or 5th than a Chauncey Washington. I think everyone knows by now that Jonathan Stewart, Mendenhall, and Charles are my top guys.

I hear ya. I just don't want Benson. Injury prone, doesn't look like he plays hard, even after the hold out and huge contract. I don't have to tell you this, but there are so many quality running backs in this draft. I would be happy with at least 5-6 backs in this draft.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Mendenhall
Charles
Stewart
McFadden
Rice

[BOSSHOGG30]

I hear ya. I just don't want Benson. Injury prone, doesn't look like he plays hard, even after the hold out and huge contract. I don't have to tell you this, but there are so many quality running backs in this draft. I would be happy with at least 5-6 backs in this draft.

You don't think Benson would be a good change of pace back to match with Selvin Young? I still think Denver needs another power back and there just aren't many good ones in this years draft. Most of them will be gone before round 4 and 5. Benson and Young would be a very good duo if you ask me.

[underrated29]

boss you and i seem to have a similiar eye for wr and rb's- do you like burnetts too.

I agree with you about benson all the way. He is a good runner, and i think he can run tougher than he has before. A little RR coaching could get him right in shape.

He seemed to me to have a similiar but worse situation than henry. Good back, but the line was soft, and the qb was either new so the d stacked the box or not so good as grossman was.

In a zbs benson, should thrive as he is fast enough, and strong enough to make it passed both levels. maybe not a homrun hitter on every down, but chewing up chunks of 10 15 yards does a lot of damage.

Thats why like you i am also so high on stewart. I would love stewart here as you know, but a 5th for a former #4? pick- I like!!

[BOSSHOGG30]

Mendenhall
Charles
Stewart
McFadden
Rice

My list might be even longer... I just don't think they will be there in the 4th or 5th rounds. Except maybe Omon.

Stewart
Charles
Mendenhall
McFadden
Forte
Hart
Choice
Johnson
Omon

[JONtheBRONCO]

You don't think Benson would be a good change of pace back to match with Selvin Young? I still think Denver needs another power back and there just aren't many good ones in this years draft. Most of them will be gone before round 4 and 5. Benson and Young would be a very good duo if you ask me.

Benson has power, but he hardly ever displays it. I live in Iowa, Bears fans everywhere you look. Yikes. Bears games are on all the time, and I've seen him a lot. No thanks. I would rather see Young and a healthy Henry than Young and Benson.

[BOSSHOGG30]

boss you and i seem to have a similiar eye for wr and rb's- do you like burnetts too.

I agree with you about benson all the way. He is a good runner, and i think he can run tougher than he has before. A little RR coaching could get him right in shape.

He seemed to me to have a similiar but worse situation than henry. Good back, but the line was soft, and the qb was either new so the d stacked the box or not so good as grossman was.

In a zbs benson, should thrive as he is fast enough, and strong enough to make it passed both levels. maybe not a homrun hitter on every down, but chewing up chunks of 10 15 yards does a lot of damage.

Thats why like you i am also so high on stewart. I would love stewart here as you know, but a 5th for a former #4? pick- I like!!

He is only 25 and if anyone can turn a former 1st round runningback with plenty of athletic ability into a good back it is Bobby Turner.

[CoachChaz]

"Why does everyone always talk about me like I'm not here?"

Sincerely,

Travis Henry

[JONtheBRONCO]

With Benson, Henry, Young, and Hall, you'd think one of them would have to be cut... or traded. Benson and Henry are virtually the same type of player, Henry just has more milage. I'm telling you, Benson runs like a little girlie man. Lets just get our man in the draft.

[BOSSHOGG30]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFc60qlIdg

Benson looks like he has power in this

[underrated29]

Travis i love you, still got the hope here that you will hit atleast 1500 next year. But we have the option this year in the draft to take someone who is like 10 years younger than you.

So next year you can put up 1500+ and the year after that you can split time with stew/mend/benson- whoever and then lets face it. You are old and always hurt.

[JONtheBRONCO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFc60qlIdg

Benson looks like he has power in this

I understand Benson has power, I've said that.. but the difference is, he uses it when he wants to. The year the Bears had Benson and Jones, Benson ran like he had something to prove... but this year, it was different, week after week I watched him, and he did nothing to impress me, or even my buddies who are bears fans for that matter.

[CoachChaz]

Travis i love you, still got the hope here that you will hit atleast 1500 next year. But we have the option this year in the draft to take someone who is like 10 years younger than you.

So next year you can put up 1500+ and the year after that you can split time with stew/mend/benson- whoever and then lets face it. You are old and always hurt.

But if they'd just let me smoke MY cigarettes, I'd play pain free.

[lex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFc60qlIdg

Benson looks like he has power in this

Benson is also what is commonly referred to as a "whiny bitch". Sorry thats just how he comes across in interviews. Consider this equation:

McFadden > Thomas Jones > Cedric Benson

So then why would we want Benson?

[shank]

Here's one reason Id rather take McFadden at 12 if he was available, which I seriously doubt. People talk about how any running back can be good in our system. In McFadden you have a guy who can be GREAT. But because "any RB" can be good in our offense, it doesnt hurt as much IF McFadden succumbs to pitfalls. But the potential for greatness is too immense to pass him up...and the down side, is putting someone else in who, though not even close to as good, can still be productive.

But like I said, I think his character concerns are overstated. Its not that Im downplaying the couple of events that have happened but when you also look at the fact that he played through injuries, didnt complain, and played well, that speaks favorably of his character. Ive never really heard him make any excuses or deflect blame at his teammates and considering Arkansas had no passing game his time there, there was ample opportunity.

clinton portis was great and he was a 2nd round pick. all 3 of the top runningbacks this year have the potential to be great. oh, sorry, GREAT! seriously lex, mike bell was undrafted, and was "good" in our system.


It's a little tough to compare Thomas and D-Mac. I don't recall D-Mac ever getting suspended, certainly not kicked off the team. He got into a scuffle in a piano bar, and there was some question about an escalade he was driving, which might have been bought for his mother by and agent. I think he was pulled over once with pot in the car, and he apparently got one or more girls pregnant. So, I guess you can grab all those things, wrap them up and state that he has character issues which will effect him on the field, or you can look at the fact that whether he had bruised ribs that required a flackjacket or was healthy, he was out there running hard every time they called his number.

So, I would take him in a heartbeat, because he would immediately make our offense better. There are few players that truely can take it the distance on every play, and he is that type of player. The fact that he can do it inside or outside, makes him more special.

Now, individual player aside, what I would really like to see is the Broncos have a back that is more than a plodder, but one that can also run in a one back set, so we can run more two TE or three WR sets with a single back.

after reading that, you're right, the character concerns do not compare...

mcfaddens are worse! thomas got kicked off of the team because of an incident with marijuana, and a technicality of leaving town after the instance.

mcfadden has had problems with fighting, weed, accepting compensation, and illegitimate kids!!!

both players play(ed) their hearts out when they were on the field, and both do great things on the field. so do mendenhall and stewart, without the concerns of us being without our RB due to stupidity, or the nfl eventually taking away picks or fining the team because of how often our players are getting into trouble...

[underrated29]

well since we are talking about the broncos scheme id say

dmac>benson> TJ

if it were another team i would agree. I have changed my stance on dmac- he still has yet to prove to me he can run through a pile, and not jsut a big hole, but i will get into that in another thread i will create as soon as i get some time. Maybe this weekend.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Benson is also what is commonly referred to as a "whiny bitch". Sorry thats just how he comes across in interviews. Consider this equation:

McFadden > Thomas Jones > Cedric Benson

So then why would we want Benson?

McFadden very high 1st round pick
Thomas Jones 2nd round pick
Cedric Benson 4th or 5th round pick


You get what you pay for.

[shank]

McFadden very high 1st round pick
Thomas Jones 2nd round pick
Cedric Benson 4th or 5th round pick


You get what you pay for.

if we got benson, i'd be skeptical, but you're right that you get what you pay for, and he brings the potential to play better....

but i agree with lex that he's a whiny bitch that isn't good for team chemistry, and has publicly said that he likes to avoid contact, run out of bounds, to "prolong" his so-far very mediocre career...

[BOSSHOGG30]

Benson has 224 total carries from the 05 and 06 seasons for 919 yards and 6 touchdowns. He only has 420 total carries in his 3 year career. He has had one bad year, last year, and this is with a very bad QB and o-line, plus his injury. He has never had a good QB or enough talent around him on offense to help take the pressure off of him. Chicago Bears constantly have extra guys in the box to stop the run and put pressure on Grossman or whoever else is QB.

[tubby]

Just give it to the Hoss.

I know he had a bad year last year. But I think he bounces back in a BIG way.

[shank]

we're also leaving out the fact that benson's career could potentially be over as we speak.

so far any indications about his injury haven't been very optimistic, and many think that he will come back a step slower than before the injury, which will officially make him slow as shit.


we're also leaving out the fact that benson's contract is huge, and that the bears would most likely not be willing to take the cap hit necessary to trade him to another team.

i can say with conviction that form my benson experience, those highlight videos are non the least bit indicative of his body of work in the nfl. if a former first round pick can't do enough good things in 4 years to make a 2 minute highlight video, then his name is ryan leaf.

[Lonestar]

Here's one reason Id rather take McFadden at 12 if he was available, which I seriously doubt. People talk about how any running back can be good in our system. In McFadden you have a guy who can be GREAT. But because "any RB" can be good in our offense, it doesnt hurt as much IF McFadden succumbs to pitfalls. But the potential for greatness is too immense to pass him up...and the down side, is putting someone else in who, though not even close to as good, can still be productive.

But like I said, I think his character concerns are overstated. Its not that Im downplaying the couple of events that have happened but when you also look at the fact that he played through injuries, didnt complain, and played well, that speaks favorably of his character. Ive never really heard him make any excuses or deflect blame at his teammates and considering Arkansas had no passing game his time there, there was ample opportunity.


IMHO if your thinking with your little head in college when famous but broke, what is gonna happen when your uber famous and rich.. I'll pass.. We already have the masterbastard maker..

We do not need a squeal.. regardless of how good he is it is a matter of time before he is blowing his money and thinking "little".

We all saw what the Thenry thing did to the team last year do Y'all want more of that?

I repeat I'll pass!!!!!!

[BOSSHOGG30]

Give it to Stewie!

God I hope we draft Jonathan Stewart!

[Tned]

after reading that, you're right, the character concerns do not compare...

mcfaddens are worse! thomas got kicked off of the team because of an incident with marijuana, and a technicality of leaving town after the instance.

mcfadden has had problems with fighting, weed, accepting compensation, and illegitimate kids!!!

both players play(ed) their hearts out when they were on the field, and both do great things on the field. so do mendenhall and stewart, without the concerns of us being without our RB due to stupidity, or the nfl eventually taking away picks or fining the team because of how often our players are getting into trouble...

I don't really know how to respond to this, since you are clearly seeing what you want. That, combined with the fact we have virtually zero chance of getting him, makes it a waste of keystrokes to continue.

[lex]

clinton portis was great and he was a 2nd round pick. all 3 of the top runningbacks this year have the potential to be great. oh, sorry, GREAT! seriously lex, mike bell was undrafted, and was "good" in our system.


Its a matter of degree. I agree that we've actually had only two RBs that could be called great. One is Davis and the other is Portis. Honestly too, I think Id rather have Charles than Stewart.

[underrated29]

Its a matter of degree. I agree that we've actually had only two RBs that could be called great. One is Davis and the other is Portis. Honestly too, I think Id rather have Charles than Stewart.




AHWww lex. Have you gone off the deep end? charles, charles..really charels over stewart?.. Would you rather have charles over marshawn lynch?
Because stewart is 10x better than lynch. Charles is like a tatum bell- i know you say portis, but still. Would you rather have a guy like portis, or a guy like ronnie brown

[lex]

AHWww lex. Have you gone off the deep end? charles, charles..really charels over stewart?.. Would you rather have charles over marshawn lynch?
Because stewart is 10x better than lynch. Charles is like a tatum bell- i know you say portis, but still. Would you rather have a guy like portis, or a guy like ronnie brown

I worry about the punishment Stewart will take. One of his biggest strengths is delivering contact but the flip side of that is that he is also on the receiving end sometimes. I dont want a guy to run away from contact when it doesnt make sense but I also dont want a lot of unnecessary pounding. I feel that exists more with McFadden, Mendenhall and Charles.

[underrated29]

fair enough.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I worry about the punishment Stewart will take. One of his biggest strengths is delivering contact but the flip side of that is that he is also on the receiving end sometimes. I dont want a guy to run away from contact when it doesnt make sense but I also dont want a lot of unnecessary pounding. I feel that exists more with McFadden, Mendenhall and Charles.

All runningbacks are on the receiving end of a hits... it usually comes with the job. Clinton Portis is one of the fastest and more agile players in the league and you don't see him healthy. Jerome Bettis played for years and he was a pounder. You never know when it comes to injuries... You can't predict them so why even try. One thing you can look at is a players toughness. Stewart has proven he can play through injury.

[turftoad]

AHWww lex. Have you gone off the deep end? charles, charles..really charels over stewart?.. Would you rather have charles over marshawn lynch?
Because stewart is 10x better than lynch. Charles is like a tatum bell- i know you say portis, but still. Would you rather have a guy like portis, or a guy like ronnie brown

Stewart is 10x better than Lynch?? He hasn't even played a pro down yet. We have no way of knowing until he puts the pads on and plays in a game. Even then he's not 10x better.

In our system I'd rather have Portis. No one can say Portis wasn't great in our system.
Denver has already proven that it doesn't need a huge power back to be succesful in the running game.

[underrated29]

Tousche

well said!

[lex]

All runningbacks are on the receiving end of a hits... it usually comes with the job. Clinton Portis is one of the fastest and more agile players in the league and you don't see him healthy. Jerome Bettis played for years and he was a pounder. You never know when it comes to injuries... You can't predict them so why even try. One thing you can look at is a players toughness. Stewart has proven he can play through injury.


Remember Barry Foster? How many good years did he have? What about Natrone Means? How many good years did Stephen Davis have as a bellcow? Shawn Alexander? Jamal Anderson? Possibly too, Larry Johnson? How many good years did Christian Okoye actually have?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Remember Barry Foster? How many good years did he have? What about Natrone Means? How many good years did Stephen Davis have as a bellcow? Shawn Alexander? Jamal Anderson? Possibly too, Larry Johnson? How many good years did Christian Okoye actually have?

That is a lot of very good backs you listed and I think I would of taken any of them.

[underrated29]

Stewart is 10x better than Lynch?? He hasn't even played a pro down yet. We have no way of knowing until he puts the pads on and plays in a game. Even then he's not 10x better.

In our system I'd rather have Portis. No one can say Portis wasn't great in our system.
Denver has already proven that it doesn't need a huge power back to be succesful in the running game.



I WOULD SAy he is 10x better. Ok maybe not 10x, but a couple for sure.

You are right portis was great in our system, what did he do 1300 year 1 and 1585 two and 3.

Didnt orlandis gayr and mike anderson also have 1300 in our system?

Point is- a portis type is good. NO doubt.

But a TD type, a 2k+ runner is best. A man who doesnt dance like portis did, a man who can drag defenders like TD did, a man who has enough speed to get the distance like TD and Portis did, who can block (we hope, so far so good) like reuben or MA did, and a guy who can catch passes like young can.

Oh dont forget he can return kicks too. I would rather a stud buffalo that WILL get the 1st down or the TD when he has too. I would sacrifice those tough chew em up tire em out yards for a guy who if he makes it to th
e 2nd level will go...


Edit- the toushe part was directed to boss- so there is no confusion.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Remember Barry Foster? How many good years did he have? What about Natrone Means? How many good years did Stephen Davis have as a bellcow? Shawn Alexander? Jamal Anderson? Possibly too, Larry Johnson? How many good years did Christian Okoye actually have?

Speed backs get hurt too lex and there are just as many bust... what is your point?

Tatum Bell? Ki-Jana Carter? Reggie Bush? Cadillac Williams? J.J. Arrington? Chris Perry? Julius Jones? Justin Fargas? Michael Bennett? Trung Canidate?

[lex]

Speed backs get hurt too lex and there are just as many bust... what is your point?

Tatum Bell? Ki-Jana Carter? Reggie Bush? Cadillac Williams? J.J. Arrington? Chris Perry? Julius Jones? Justin Fargas? Michael Bennett? Trung Canidate?

This goes back to a thread I started about whether Charles is more like Portis or Bell. It was something I was wrestling with during the season. The fact that Im advocating Charles now should tell you I see him as being more like Portis than Bell.

BTW, Id also like to say that its a rugged sport. There is risk for any running back. Your list proves that which is why Id rather not have a guy who absorbs a lot of additional pounding.

[BOSSHOGG30]

This goes back to a thread I started about whether Charles is more like Portis or Bell. It was something I was wrestling with during the season. The fact that Im advocating Charles now should tell you I see him as being more like Portis than Bell.

I didn't compare him to Tatum Bell. Jamaal Charles is no Tatum Bell. Tatum Bell wakes up each morning wishing he has the talent of Jamaal Charles. Jamaal Charles is so good that even though I want Denver to get a bigger back and I really like Stewart and even Mendenhall. I would take Charles over Mendenhall. Stewart is the only back I like more than Charles. Tatum Bell doesn't have heart. Bell has similar talent and a similar build, but he just doesn't have the heart. Charles has the heart.

[Lonestar]

I didn't compare him to Tatum Bell. Jamaal Charles is no Tatum Bell. Tatum Bell wakes up each morning wishing he has the talent of Jamaal Charles. Jamaal Charles is so good that even though I want Denver to get a bigger back and I really like Stewart and even Mendenhall. I would take Charles over Mendenhall. Stewart is the only back I like more than Charles. Tatum Bell doesn't have heart. Bell has similar talent and a similar build, but he just doesn't have the heart. Charles has the heart.3.

While TD and poorti$$ had good years in Den that was almost a decade ago and as much as they were good here I'd rather have someone bigger and able to take the pounding that larger DL and LB have evolved into since those two played here in Den..

tater a could have been porti$$ wannabe..

Give me a 230+ pounder that is a step slower than porti$$ and I'm a happy camper..

[shank]

I don't really know how to respond to this, since you are clearly seeing what you want. That, combined with the fact we have virtually zero chance of getting him, makes it a waste of keystrokes to continue.

you're the one that created the list of his character concerns, i'm just wondering how they don't concern you as a (theoretical) 1st round pick... if we go with an agile, speedier back, i hope it's mendenhall, because i don't want to get burned again, and i think mendenhall/mcfadden/stewart would all have about the same level of success here in denver, just with different running styles. the only thing that concerns me with mcfadden is the character/off field stuff, and i just honestly would not see a need to risk it when two high character, high talent guys are in my eyes on par with him, yet risk free.

[BOSSHOGG30]

3.

While TD and poorti$$ had good years in Den that was almost a decade ago and as much as they were good here I'd rather have someone bigger and able to take the pounding that larger DL and LB have evolved into since those two played here in Den..

tater a could have been porti$$ wannabe..

Give me a 230+ pounder that is a step slower than porti$$ and I'm a happy camper..

I'm not sure what Clinton Portis ran, but you won't see many guys Stewarts size with that kind of speed. It is similar to Marshall. He only ran a 4.5 but at 230 pounds that is pretty darn fast. Stewart is not only shorter which gives him more leverage, but he is 235lbs and runs a 4.4.

[lex]

I didn't compare him to Tatum Bell. Jamaal Charles is no Tatum Bell. Tatum Bell wakes up each morning wishing he has the talent of Jamaal Charles. Jamaal Charles is so good that even though I want Denver to get a bigger back and I really like Stewart and even Mendenhall. I would take Charles over Mendenhall. Stewart is the only back I like more than Charles. Tatum Bell doesn't have heart. Bell has similar talent and a similar build, but he just doesn't have the heart. Charles has the heart.

And thats why Id rather have Charles instead. Plus, I think he was beginning to scratch the surface. He really came around last year and could actually put on 10 lbs without it affecting him negatively, I think. Just think, if the Dallas trade happened, we could possibly have Cherilous, Laws, and Charles.

[underrated29]

With A Broken Toe :wink:

[Tned]

you're the one that created the list of his character concerns, i'm just wondering how they don't concern you as a (theoretical) 1st round pick... if we go with an agile, speedier back, i hope it's mendenhall, because i don't want to get burned again, and i think mendenhall/mcfadden/stewart would all have about the same level of success here in denver, just with different running styles. the only thing that concerns me with mcfadden is the character/off field stuff, and i just honestly would not see a need to risk it when two high character, high talent guys are in my eyes on par with him, yet risk free.

I think 'character' issues are overblown. Mike Anderson was suspended 4 games for Marijauna use. Was he a character risk, or in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I just think some people forget that most NFL players are 'character risks' to one degree or another. It has been this way for a long time and will continue for a long time. That's the whole reason that Roger Goodell, the hanging commissioner, has started to go after problem players so aggressively.

Little Rock is one of the most violent cities in the nation. The fact that some guys harrassed him and he got into a scuffle isn't a character issue, but a reality of life.

[BOSSHOGG30]

And thats why Id rather have Charles instead. Plus, I think he was beginning to scratch the surface. He really came around last year and could actually put on 10 lbs without it affecting him negatively, I think. Just think, if the Dallas trade happened, we could possibly have Cherilous, Laws, and Charles.

And I would be fine with that.. I just don't know if we will be able to trade back...I'm all for trading back and that is actually what I want more than anything... but if we draft at the #12 I want Stewart or Chris Williams. They are bascially the only guys who have the value for that high draft spot. Ellis and Dorsey will be gone by then and both Stewart and Chris Williams would fill a huge need.

[turftoad]

I think 'character' issues are overblown. Mike Anderson was suspended 4 games for Marijauna use. Was he a character risk, or in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I just think some people forget that most NFL players are 'character risks' to one degree or another. It has been this way for a long time and will continue for a long time. That's the whole reason that Roger Goodell, the hanging commissioner, has started to go after problem players so aggressively.

Little Rock is one of the most violent cities in the nation. The fact that some guys harrassed him and he got into a scuffle isn't a character issue, but a reality of life.

Agreed......... the pro scouts did background checks and had a chance to talk with him during his pro day.

After his pro day there are far less concerns about his character than before.

[shank]

I think 'character' issues are overblown. Mike Anderson was suspended 4 games for Marijauna use. Was he a character risk, or in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I just think some people forget that most NFL players are 'character risks' to one degree or another. It has been this way for a long time and will continue for a long time. That's the whole reason that Roger Goodell, the hanging commissioner, has started to go after problem players so aggressively.

Little Rock is one of the most violent cities in the nation. The fact that some guys harrassed him and he got into a scuffle isn't a character issue, but a reality of life.

mike anderson's was an isolated incident. you just listed LOTs of incidents involving mcfadden; i believe he had 2 fights, the car, getting caught with pot, and having (1 or is it 2) supposed illegitimate children? was he just in the "wrong place at the wrong time" 4-6 times? how does that not make him one of the problem players that goodell is going after? before he even is in the nfl?

what if mcfadden's talent was in the 5th round range? and with all his character concerns, would you take him over another guy with a scouting grade of like 3 less than mcfadden's if the other guy had a clean record and was known to be of higher character?

or are you just so enamored with dmac that you are only seeing what YOU want to see, and playing off character concerns as no big deal, despite the crackdown by the commisioner on players making bad decisions that reflect badly on the nfl?

at least if we take him, he can get some tips from a qualified veteran like travis henry.



(on how to dodge child support payments)

[Lonestar]

Agreed......... the pro scouts did background checks and had a chance to talk with him during his pro day.

After his pro day there are far less concerns about his character than before.


but talk is cheap we have seen it year after year.

2005 Clarette,
2006 I'm sure there was somone, just can't think of who or how many there were..
2007 henry, Thomas and maybe now Marshall


We do not need a 2008 edition..

we need reputation FREE players..

[LRtagger]

well a plus side would be he and Henry would have a lot to talk about :noidea:

[shank]

well a plus side would be he and Henry would have a lot to talk about :noidea:

they'd probably hang out, and do what they do together.


then we can lose both of our top runningbacks in one fell swoop when they get caught again! brilliant!

[LRtagger]

Maybe their kids could hang out. Between the two of them they could have one hell of a peewee football team.

[lex]

mike anderson's was an isolated incident. you just listed LOTs of incidents involving mcfadden; i believe he had 2 fights, the car, getting caught with pot, and having (1 or is it 2) supposed illegitimate children? was he just in the "wrong place at the wrong time" 4-6 times? how does that not make him one of the problem players that goodell is going after? before he even is in the nfl?

what if mcfadden's talent was in the 5th round range? and with all his character concerns, would you take him over another guy with a scouting grade of like 3 less than mcfadden's if the other guy had a clean record and was known to be of higher character?

or are you just so enamored with dmac that you are only seeing what YOU want to see, and playing off character concerns as no big deal, despite the crackdown by the commisioner on players making bad decisions that reflect badly on the nfl?

at least if we take him, he can get some tips from a qualified veteran like travis henry.



(on how to dodge child support payments)

No the most recent time was someone else getting in a fight at a bar he was at. He was a little worked up when the police were there but wasnt involved in the fight, according to what was made known at that time. And fwiw, several of the top picks in last years draft actually admitted to smoking pot. Calvin Johnson and Amobi Okoye were two of them off the top of my head.

[lex]

but talk is cheap we have seen it year after year.

2005 Clarette,
2006 I'm sure there was somone, just can't think of who or how many there were..
2007 henry, Thomas and maybe now Marshall


We do not need a 2008 edition..

we need reputation FREE players..

We need guys who deliver.

[shank]

We need guys who deliver.

or guys who don't even need to convince anyone of anything...

[Tned]

or guys who don't even need to convince anyone of anything...

Convinced people based on their play on their field, or some arbitrary moral standard that some fans impose? :confused:

[lex]

or guys who don't even need to convince anyone of anything...

Not really, its pretty much about going out there every week and delivering. Thats what Im most concerned with. Like I pointed out, several players in last years draft class admitted to smoking pot. But like I said, its about delivering.

[Lonestar]

Convinced people based on their play on their field, or some arbitrary moral standard that some fans impose? :confused:

Lets see you have two apples A one big and juicy the other B not so big,
B is faster than A. but has been the apple barrel surrounded by other rotten fruit..

Which one are YOU gonna chose?

Pretty easy when you get down to the basics.

[Tned]

Lets see you have two apples A one big and juicy the other B not so big,
B is faster than A. but has been the apple barrel surrounded by other rotten fruit..

Which one are YOU gonna chose?

Pretty easy when you get down to the basics.

I know the point you are trying to make, but I still didn't quite follow the fruit analogy. I know you are saying McFadden is not the one to pick, but beyond that, you lost me.

All I'm saying is there are not many minister's playing in the NFL, and any team that starts making it's personnel decisions based on some arbitrary moral line will find themselves with a lot of losing seasons and will lose a lot of fans and money in the process.

[Lonestar]

I know the point you are trying to make, but I still didn't quite follow the fruit analogy. I know you are saying McFadden is not the one to pick, but beyond that, you lost me.

All I'm saying is there are not many minister's playing in the NFL, and any team that starts making it's personnel decisions based on some arbitrary moral line will find themselves with a lot of losing seasons and will lose a lot of fans and money in the process.

Well I thought it might be to deep..

I think there are plenty of really good RB that do not have "flaws" that may cause them to miss playing time in the future considering Goodell is taking few hostages.

If the kid was thinking with his little head while in college the odds are he will continue to do so once he is on his own with a hell of a lot more money to spend..

Maybe I'm totally wrong here but IMO the difference in 1300 yards and 1600 is not all that much about 20 per game.. Are you willing to chance going from 1600 to zero and eat alot of dead cap space because he can't handle the spot light.

We were 2oz of piss last year from losing Thenry for good.. And eating millions in cap space AGAIN this year..

Sorry someone else can have this potential nightmare.. let them get all the bad press.

Lets hope Pat meant what he said about character counting from now on..

[Tned]

Maybe I'm totally wrong here but IMO the difference in 1300 yards and 1600 is not all that much about 20 per game.. Are you willing to chance going from 1600 to zero and eat alot of dead cap space because he can't handle the spot light.



Given the chance, I sure would risk it, because that is like the difference between LT and Travis Henry. That 300 yards or so a year can add up to a number of wins, which is what the NFL is all about. Winning and losing. The players that produce the most, not those that we would want to be related to or call our friends.

[Lonestar]

Given the chance, I sure would risk it, because that is like the difference between LT and Travis Henry. That 300 yards or so a year can add up to a number of wins, which is what the NFL is all about. Winning and losing. The players that produce the most, not those that we would want to be related to or call our friends.

I do not believe that 20 yards a game is gonna make the difference in winning or losing more than a game a year..

LT is also not a potential black hole that could suck the team down either..

Look I know you like the guy but our chances are slim and NO WAY IN HELL of getting him.

Like I said I hope that PAT would squash any chance of it happening.. Lets pray to God that he falls this far and Mikey can deal the pick to Dallas for multiple extra picks on DAY one and early day two..

[Tned]

I do not believe that 20 yards a game is gonna make the difference in winning or losing more than a game a year..

LT is also not a potential black hole that could suck the team down either..

Look I know you like the guy but our chances are slim and NO WAY IN HELL of getting him.

Like I said I hope that PAT would squash any chance of it happening.. Lets pray to God that he falls this far and Mikey can deal the pick to Dallas for multiple extra picks on DAY one and early day two..

It's not so much that I like him (irrelevant because we won't be in a position to draft him), but I honestly don't agree with the moral high and mighty attitude that some of you guys keep throwing around with 'character' this and that, even when there is little to no basis for it.

My main issue with it is that it is selective morality. Is there an outcry to release Marshall for his DUI or domestic abuse charges? I'm drawing a blank now on all the Broncos that have been arrested or charged with something in the last few years, but there have been quite a few. From DUI's to domestic assualt.

The NFL is not a church league, it is a league full of guys that in many, many cases come from VERY tough neighborhoods and often have one shot at getting out of those bad situations, and that is the NFL.

[shank]

the recent trend of broncos getting in trouble is the exact reason that it would be stupid to take a chance on a character risk like mcfadden when there are guys as talented with no questions about their character...

i have only been a bronco fan for 12 years (since i was 8) and in one season the team has pretty much destroyed one of the things that i loved about the broncos for all those 11 other years; their class.

we freaking made fun of the bengals last year because of how many people they had getting in trouble, and could do so because we were at the opposite end of the spectrum... after 2007, we are in the same position as they were, with the other teams with some control over themselves laughing at our stupidity. add to that questions in multiple games last season of the players quitting in games, people not putting in the work to be better players and abetter team, and the broncos are not the team that i started to love when i first started watching football.

if you want a chance at an extra win even though it means disregarding character, class, and the image of the organization, then that's up to you. off the top of my head, every character risk that we've taken since i've been a fan has backfired on us-- why would we continue to take these unnecessary risks?

i'm surprised to see a long time fan like you tned, not as disgusted as i am at what the broncos are becoming... trust me, i'd love to win, but not at the cost of selling our soul for wins.


(you're going to tell me i'm blowing it out of proportion, and i know what i wrote sounds sappy, but i couldn't think of a way to word it; i'm ok sacrificing a small bit of talent for a big chunk of character).

[TXBRONC]

I do not believe that 20 yards a game is gonna make the difference in winning or losing more than a game a year..

LT is also not a potential black hole that could suck the team down either..

Look I know you like the guy but our chances are slim and NO WAY IN HELL of getting him.

Like I said I hope that PAT would squash any chance of it happening.. Lets pray to God that he falls this far and Mikey can deal the pick to Dallas for multiple extra picks on DAY one and early day two..


I wont be praying for that.

You may not believe that those extra will make a difference but I would bet otherwise. I would also guess that those 20 extra yards also come packaged with about three more touchdowns per year than you would get with a guy who tops out at about 1300 yards.

[Tned]

the recent trend of broncos getting in trouble is the exact reason that it would be stupid to take a chance on a character risk like mcfadden when there are guys as talented with no questions about their character...

i have only been a bronco fan for 12 years (since i was 8) and in one season the team has pretty much destroyed one of the things that i loved about the broncos for all those 11 other years; their class.

we freaking made fun of the bengals last year because of how many people they had getting in trouble, and could do so because we were at the opposite end of the spectrum... after 2007, we are in the same position as they were, with the other teams with some control over themselves laughing at our stupidity. add to that questions in multiple games last season of the players quitting in games, people not putting in the work to be better players and abetter team, and the broncos are not the team that i started to love when i first started watching football.

if you want a chance at an extra win even though it means disregarding character, class, and the image of the organization, then that's up to you. off the top of my head, every character risk that we've taken since i've been a fan has backfired on us-- why would we continue to take these unnecessary risks?

i'm surprised to see a long time fan like you tned, not as disgusted as i am at what the broncos are becoming... trust me, i'd love to win, but not at the cost of selling our soul for wins.


(you're going to tell me i'm blowing it out of proportion, and i know what i wrote sounds sappy, but i couldn't think of a way to word it; i'm ok sacrificing a small bit of talent for a big chunk of character).

I'm just more realitic than some. I realize that NFL teams full of choir boys don't win championships. It doesn't mean I approve of Rod or Marshal beating up their girlfriends, or Mike Anderson getting high, the slew of Broncos charged with DUI's over the years. I just seperate my morality from the football team I follow.

Also, it is important to remember that there is far more press about character issues (and everything else about players, actors, politicians) than in years past. As the internet has developed as a news and information resource, there is far, far more scrutiny on all public figures.

As to RBs with the same talent as McFadden. If that was the case then why aren't Mendenhall, Stewart or these other talented backs in virtually all the top 5's of the mocks along with McFadden? Instead, they are typically 12th to 20-something. Nobody can truely predict how a college player will translate into the NFL, but where we stand today few 'experts' consider Mendenhall and Stewart on par with McFadden.

[shank]

Nobody can truely predict how a college player will translate into the NFL, but where we stand today few 'experts' consider Mendenhall and Stewart on par with McFadden.

i'll answer that by quoting myself:

i'm ok sacrificing a small bit of talent for a big chunk of character.

i think mcfadden was the best college RB, but i think as far as the game translates to the NFL, the gap between the 3 will be closed to a good extent, placing them "on par" with eachother. i don't think mfadden is better a player enough to justify the risk with how pathetic our team has already become. take steps to make it better, not risks that could make it worse. a suspended RB rushes for 0 ypg.

[lex]

I do not believe that 20 yards a game is gonna make the difference in winning or losing more than a game a year..

LT is also not a potential black hole that could suck the team down either..
Look I know you like the guy but our chances are slim and NO WAY IN HELL of getting him.

Like I said I hope that PAT would squash any chance of it happening.. Lets pray to God that he falls this far and Mikey can deal the pick to Dallas for multiple extra picks on DAY one and early day two..

Where did you get that from? Now youre just making stuff up. Theres nothing out there about McFadden causing internal strife among his teammates...at least nothing Ive heard of.

[Lonestar]

I'm just more realitic than some. I realize that NFL teams full of choir boys don't win championships. It doesn't mean I approve of Rod or Marshal beating up their girlfriends, or Mike Anderson getting high, the slew of Broncos charged with DUI's over the years. I just seperate my morality from the football team I follow.

Also, it is important to remember that there is far more press about character issues (and everything else about players, actors, politicians) than in years past. As the internet has developed as a news and information resource, there is far, far more scrutiny on all public figures.

As to RBs with the same talent as McFadden. If that was the case then why aren't Mendenhall, Stewart or these other talented backs in virtually all the top 5's of the mocks along with McFadden? Instead, they are typically 12th to 20-something. Nobody can truely predict how a college player will translate into the NFL, but where we stand today few 'experts' consider Mendenhall and Stewart on par with McFadden.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. The experts are not laying down a huge chunk of change to see if this is a great move or a Reggie bush move..

The owners are and the only difference I see in these three guys is about 20-30 pounds and .1 of a second in the forty.. about .48 feet if I did my math correctly.. that is the real difference ON the field that is.. .48 feet.

Off the field huge difference in character between Stewart and MC Fadden..

[lex]

i'll answer that by quoting myself:


i think mcfadden was the best college RB, but i think as far as the game translates to the NFL, the gap between the 3 will be closed to a good extent, placing them "on par" with eachother. i don't think mfadden is better a player enough to justify the risk with how pathetic our team has already become. take steps to make it better, not risks that could make it worse. a suspended RB rushes for 0 ypg.

Youre assuming he will get suspended and youve already claimed he was involved in a fight when there was not testimony to affirm as much. Actually, I think if you put all three on Denver the differences will be amplified.

[lex]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. The experts are not laying down a huge chunk of change to see if this is a great move or a Reggie bush move..

The owners are and the only difference I see in these three guys is about 20-30 pounds and .1 of a second in the forty.. about .48 feet if I did my math correctly.. that is the real difference ON the field that is.. .48 feet.

Off the field huge difference in character between Stewart and MC Fadden..




3 40 120 4.33 27.71362587
4.48 26.78571429
0.92791158




Its almost a full foot per second.

[shank]

Youre assuming he will get suspended and youve already claimed he was involved in a fight when there was not testimony to affirm as much. Actually, I think if you put all three on Denver the differences will be amplified.

he's admitted that he was in a fight... :confused:

i think any of the 3 would be great, i mean great RBs here in denver. but i honestly would be biting my tongue, expecting mcfadden to mess up. i wouldn't have to do the same with the other two.

other teams are laughing at us.

[Tned]

i'll answer that by quoting myself:


i think mcfadden was the best college RB, but i think as far as the game translates to the NFL, the gap between the 3 will be closed to a good extent, placing them "on par" with eachother. i don't think mfadden is better a player enough to justify the risk with how pathetic our team has already become. take steps to make it better, not risks that could make it worse. a suspended RB rushes for 0 ypg.

Fair enough. Also, one thing I didn't fully respond to. You made the comment about how a long time fan (some consider me a short time fan) like me couldn't be bothered by the state of the franchise (or something like that).

As a 20+ year fan, I lived through the great/not so great SB years of the 80's, but then also the franchise hitting bottom in the early 90's, before Shanny along with TD, Sharpe, Rod and others gave Elway what he needed to reach the top.

Since you have only be a Broncos fan for 12 years, you have been part of an incredible run that Shanny has produced that few other coaches have managed to do. He has managed to rebuild on the fly multiple times, nearly completely turning over the roster multiple times without 'rebuilding' with low single digit win seasons like happens to virtually every other franchise after a good win (see Dallas, SF and most other SB teams). Part of how Shanny has managed to do that was to take chances on FAs and other players, whether it be hoping they had a few more years in their aging bodies or 'reaching' a little for someone in the draft, because he was trying to fill a need to win 'this year' not three years from now.

During Shanny's tenure, they have typically drafted in the high teens or in the 20's. This is because they have been one of the winningest teams in the NFL during Shanny's tenure. In the 13 years or so that he has been head coach, the team has had two losing seasons. During that same span, there are few franchises that can boast only two losing seasons.

It's the very fact that I realize that as Broncos fans we are very spoiled that I am able to take a losing season in stride. It is the realization that what the franchise has done over the last 13+ years (and really 20+ years that Bowlen has been the owner) is so amazing, that I don't get to rattled by a bad personell decision here or there, because if you play it safe year in and year out, you will be perennially losers like the Browns, Cardinals or so many other teams who have fans that simply long for a winning season, forget about dreaming about the Super Bowl.

Please excuse what I am sure is a bunch of typos, but I have to hop off in a sec and don't have time to proof this mini rant.

[Lonestar]

3 40 120 4.33 27.71362587
4.48 26.78571429
0.92791158




Its almost a full foot per second.

If either of them are in the open it will not make a difference will it..

[shank]

it's .93 feet per second, so if you multiply stewarts speed of 26.79 fps by mcfaddens time 4.33 seconds, you get ~116. meaning that when mcfadden finishes the dash at 120 feet, stewart is only at 116 feet, making the total difference over 40 yards 4 feet...

but that doesn't mean that mcfadden is a mature decision maker :D

[shank]

Fair enough. Also, one thing I didn't fully respond to. You made the comment about how a long time fan (some consider me a short time fan) like me couldn't be bothered by the state of the franchise (or something like that).


i didn't even mean the "state of the franchise" in any way regarding our record of 7-9... i meant that the stupidity, lack of leadership, and lack of heart appears to me to be at an all time high, and that's something that (imho) needs fixing before anything else. again, other teams (' fans) are laughing at us.

[lex]

he's admitted that he was in a fight... :confused:

i think any of the 3 would be great, i mean great RBs here in denver. but i honestly would be biting my tongue, expecting mcfadden to mess up. i wouldn't have to do the same with the other two.

other teams are laughing at us.

At the Piano Bar?

[shank]

At the Piano Bar?

yeah. even on nfl network, he said that he got into a scuffle.

of course he blames it on being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but even he admits that he handled it wrong and acted immaturely. (just admitting it doesn't mean that you're on the road to change...) taken with his other issues though, i don't personally feel good about the chances of him maturing when he gets a ridiculous first round signing bonus...

[lex]

If either of them are in the open it will not make a difference will it..

Its significant enough. How often do you see a player one step away from breaking it long. Well, McFadden has that step. It wont come into play all the time but it doesnt take much because with that you could be talking about the difference between 15 yards and 65 yards. Thats the difference between a first down and a touch down...and it only takes a couple of runs where it matters to have a big impact.

[Tned]

Actually, I think it's about a foot every second or 10 yards, not after 40 yards. That means that when Stewart crosses the 40 yard mark, McFadden is 4 feet in front of him. Unless of course that the 4.27 they recorded before they 'tweaked' it to 4.33 at the combine is accurate, and then he would be 6 feet ahead of him after 40 yards.

That 4-6' can make the difference between having the safety or corner not cut your off when they have the angle on you. We've all seen the really fast backs get past the LB's by a fingertip, that foot after 10 yards is that 'fingertip'.

The reason I would never want the Broncos to trade up for someone like McFadden is because you don't know if McFadden will be the next TD, LT or ED, or if he will be the next Reggie Bush (who still could produce, but hasn't produced much to date). However, I think discounting 4.48 to 4.33 is huge. In a great many cases that difference in speed will be the difference between a 25 yard run and an 80 yard score.

[lex]

yeah. even on nfl network, he said that he got into a scuffle.

of course he blames it on being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but even he admits that he handled it wrong and acted immaturely. (just admitting it doesn't mean that you're on the road to change...) taken with his other issues though, i don't personally feel good about the chances of him maturing when he gets a ridiculous first round signing bonus...

Are you sure he wasnt talking about the fight before his junior year?

[lex]

Actually, I think it's about a foot every second or 10 yards, not after 40 yards. That means that when Stewart crosses the 40 yard mark, McFadden is 4 feet in front of him. Unless of course that the 4.27 they recorded before they 'tweaked' it to 4.33 at the combine is accurate, and then he would be 6 feet ahead of him after 40 yards.

That 4-6' can make the difference between having the safety or corner not cut your off when they have the angle on you. We've all seen the really fast backs get past the LB's by a fingertip, that foot after 10 yards is that 'fingertip'.

The reason I would never want the Broncos to trade up for someone like McFadden is because you don't know if McFadden will be the next TD, LT or ED, or if he will be the next Reggie Bush (who still could produce, but hasn't produced much to date). However, I think discounting 4.48 to 4.33 is huge. In a great many cases that difference in speed will be the difference between a 25 yard run and an 80 yard score.

Like I said when I first broke it down. Its a foot per second.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

lex...yer up.

[Tned]

i didn't even mean the "state of the franchise" in any way regarding our record of 7-9... i meant that the stupidity, lack of leadership, and lack of heart appears to me to be at an all time high, and that's something that (imho) needs fixing before anything else. again, other teams (' fans) are laughing at us.

I'm not concerned about other fans 'laughing' at us, because in the SB years they were cursing us. Is it the Raiders fans laughing when they had 2 or 3 wins just a couple years ago? How about the Cowboys fans that spent multiple years just hoping for a winning season? The Bengals fans that were stuck in pergatory for a decade or so, or the Cardinals and Browns who wished they were as good as the Bengals? I can go on and on. The fact is that I don't care if other fans are laughing, because I know that as a Broncos fan for the last 22 or so years, I have had more winning seasons, more SB appearances and more SB wins than almost any other team's fans during that time.

I know that my team is one of the few teams (maybe only team) that has only drafted in the top 10 ONCE in those 22 years.

I am a fan of one of the greatest teams of the last two decades and I know those fans have spent much of the last 20+ years (assuming they have been fans that long) crying over their teams performances, while I have been chearing the Broncos'.

[Lonestar]

Actually, I think it's about a foot every second or 10 yards, not after 40 yards. That means that when Stewart crosses the 40 yard mark, McFadden is 4 feet in front of him. Unless of course that the 4.27 they recorded before they 'tweaked' it to 4.33 at the combine is accurate, and then he would be 6 feet ahead of him after 40 yards.

That 4-6' can make the difference between having the safety or corner not cut your off when they have the angle on you. We've all seen the really fast backs get past the LB's by a fingertip, that foot after 10 yards is that 'fingertip'.

The reason I would never want the Broncos to trade up for someone like McFadden is because you don't know if McFadden will be the next TD, LT or ED, or if he will be the next Reggie Bush (who still could produce, but hasn't produced much to date). However, I think discounting 4.48 to 4.33 is huge. In a great many cases that difference in speed will be the difference between a 25 yard run and an 80 yard score.


regardless e of 4 or 6 feet I;d rather have a big guy that can handle the punishment the extra 20 pounds come with not even mentioning the character issues..

I'll take the 25 yards and continue the drive and eat the clock for TOP all day.

That was how we won the super bowls grind them down until they have no more to give..

TD was not a speedster either nor was he 230+ pounds, but he had a great OLINE in front of him and he got just enough of those breakaway runs each year to seal the seasons..

I'd rather have the 230 pound TD..

[shank]

The reason I would never want the Broncos to trade up for someone like McFadden is because you don't know if McFadden will be the next TD, LT or ED, or if he will be the next Reggie Bush (who still could produce, but hasn't produced much to date). However, I think discounting 4.48 to 4.33 is huge. In a great many cases that difference in speed will be the difference between a 25 yard run and an 80 yard score.

it works both ways. what about mcfaddens 211 vs stewart's 235? what about when we only need 2 tough yards to seal a game? mcfadden's 'dead legs' or stewarts tough to tackle running style?

they are different backs, and either would be great here. again, for me it comes down to off-field issues.

[shank]

I'm not concerned about other fans 'laughing' at us, because in the SB years they were cursing us. Is it the Raiders fans laughing when they had 2 or 3 wins just a couple years ago? How about the Cowboys fans that spent multiple years just hoping for a winning season? The Bengals fans that were stuck in pergatory for a decade or so, or the Cardinals and Browns who wished they were as good as the Bengals? I can go on and on. The fact is that I don't care if other fans are laughing, because I know that as a Broncos fan for the last 22 or so years, I have had more winning seasons, more SB appearances and more SB wins than almost any other team's fans during that time.

I know that my team is one of the few teams (maybe only team) that has only drafted in the top 10 ONCE in those 22 years.

I am a fan of one of the greatest teams of the last two decades and I know those fans have spent much of the last 20+ years (assuming they have been fans that long) crying over their teams performances, while I have been chearing the Broncos'.

drafting stewart instead of mcfadden isn't going to turn us into the cardinals... either one would do great things here, why not improve the team's character at the same time that you're improving its play?

[Tned]

regardless e of 4 or 6 feet I;d rather have a big guy that can handle the punishment the extra 20 pounds come with not even mentioning the character issues..

I'll take the 25 yards and continue the drive and eat the clock for TOP all day.

That was how we won the super bowls grind them down until they have no more to give..

TD was not a speedster either nor was he 230+ pounds, but he had a great OLINE in front of him and he got just enough of those breakaway runs each year to seal the seasons..

I'd rather have the 230 pound TD..

Well, I agree. I would love to have a 230 pound TD, but TD was a rare breed. TD at 230 might not have been TD.

One thing this team has lacked in recent years (both due to line and RB's) is the ability to run out the clock. Remember the December game in Arrowhead two or three years ago. All we needed to do was convert a 4th and 1 to run out the clock, and we turn it over on downs.

Don't get me wrong, I would be very happy with Mendenhall or Stewart. As an Arkie homer, I would also be happy with Felix Jones, who would help both in the return game and running game. It's just that I can't blindly say Cutler is a top 5 QB because he is a Bronco, I also can't state that there is no difference between 4.33 and 4.48. That's the difference between extraordinary speed and 'typical' speed.

[shank]

Are you sure he wasnt talking about the fight before his junior year?

he talks about both. he blames both on his little brother.

he says the first someone was trying to steal his brother's car, and that his brother was the cause of the fight at the piano bar. to me it sounds fishy, like he's pushing the blame, and like he may not learn to quickly from his mistakes...

(you can go to the nflnetwork video site, search for mcfadden, and it's darren mcfadden on site: he doesn't mention any specifics, but does mention two separate incidents)

[Tned]

it works both ways. what about mcfaddens 211 vs stewart's 235? what about when we only need 2 tough yards to seal a game? mcfadden's 'dead legs' or stewarts tough to tackle running style?

they are different backs, and either would be great here. again, for me it comes down to off-field issues.

It's much, much easier to find bruising backs capable of getting 2 yards than it is to get a guy capable of going to the house every time he touches the ball.

I love the dead legs things that some guys throw out, even though the guy one the doak walker (best running back) thing two years in a row, and embarrassed plenty of very good SEC defenses, even when the Hawgs had NO offense other than McFadden. They didn't have a good QB. There is a reason that McFadden was lined up as QB 15 or 20% of their plays the last two years. The team's only offense was McFadden. Some have labled him an outside runner, but those are people that clearly haven't watched his games or highlights.



drafting stewart instead of mcfadden isn't going to turn us into the cardinals... either one would do great things here, why not improve the team's character at the same time that you're improving its play?

I think it is probably obvious by now, but I could care less about improving the character of the team, I care about wins; I care about playoff appearances. I don't look to the Broncos players as my role models in life, I look to them to give me something to look forward to while life is dealing the shit storm of 'real life' that it so often does.

[shank]

One thing this team has lacked in recent years (both due to line and RB's) is the ability to run out the clock. Remember the December game in Arrowhead two or three years ago. All we needed to do was convert a 4th and 1 to run out the clock, and we turn it over on downs.

Don't get me wrong, I would be very happy with Mendenhall or Stewart. As an Arkie homer, I would also be happy with Felix Jones, who would help both in the return game and running game. It's just that I can't blindly say Cutler is a top 5 QB because he is a Bronco, I also can't state that there is no difference between 4.33 and 4.48. That's the difference between extraordinary speed and 'typical' speed.

short yardage is a big reason i'd feel more comfortable with stewart getting the ball than both mcfadden and mendenhall. he runs with power, and will be able to convert some of these crucial plays, even when the line doesn't give him any daylight, which in recent years, they have been known to do.

if you want a RB that can help on special teams too, then stewart is another guy you should praise. he was a good returner and displayed good ST vision at oregon, and can break tackles MUCH better than felix jones. he also ran his 4.48 to go along with felix's 4.47.

you can't tell me that stewart's 40 time is not JUST as impressive as mcfadden's with his size. he ran practically the same time as felix jones (a back known for his speed and elusiveness), despite being 28 lbs heavier!

[shank]

It's much, much easier to find bruising backs capable of getting 2 yards than it is to get a guy capable of going to the house every time he touches the ball.
then why wouldn't you JUMP at the opportunity to grab a guy like stewart who can do both?!


I love the dead legs things that some guys throw out, even though the guy one the doak walker (best running back) thing two years in a row, and embarrassed plenty of very good SEC defenses, even when the Hawgs had NO offense other than McFadden. They didn't have a good QB. There is a reason that McFadden was lined up as QB 15 or 20% of their plays the last two years. The team's only offense was McFadden. Some have labled him an outside runner, but those are people that clearly haven't watched his games or highlights.

i'm sure mike mayock hasn't seen the guy on film :coffee:


I think it is probably obvious by now, but I could care less about improving the character of the team, I care about wins; I care about playoff appearances. I don't look to the Broncos players as my role models in life, I look to them to give me something to look forward to while life is dealing the shit storm of 'real life' that it so often does.

get a guy like stewart and you are improving the team from both aspects. win-win. same with mendenhall...

[Tned]

he talks about both. he blames both on his little brother.

he says the first someone was trying to steal his brother's car, and that his brother was the cause of the fight at the piano bar. to me it sounds fishy, like he's pushing the blame, and like he may not learn to quickly from his mistakes...

(you can go to the nflnetwork video site, search for mcfadden, and it's darren mcfadden on site: he doesn't mention any specifics, but does mention two separate incidents)

Little Rock is one of the most violent cities in the country. It was something like 12th on the FBI's list of violent crimes per capita last time it was released. Just because he has a future in the NFL doesn't mean the scum in his neighborhood are going to leave him and his family alone. I've been fortunate enough to not live in that type of situation, so I can only imagine what it is like to not just live, but also attempt to survive (as in stay alive) every day of your life.

Back in the mid '90s HBO did a special "Bangin in the Rock" about how bad gang violence was in Little Rock, and the latest FBI list shows that things haven't gotten any better. While Rudy will tell you that NY is one of the safest cities in the country to live in, the same cannot be said of Little Rock.

[underrated29]

i like what jr said.

1, time of possesion, Huge factor in us winning games. The longer you have the ball the less time they do to score.

2. A bruising back, will w-e-a-r- a defense down. In the late 3rd and 4th qtr. The defense is toast. THen the pounder can get whatever he wants. Or more importantly the quick guy (hall/young) can take it to the house on every single possesion.

3. We play here in colorado, and also have to play 2x in kc and always get a pitts,GB,NE,NYG team or two. Speed guys cant do as well in the snow and sloppy weather, which we have to face. The bigger guys can usually still make cuts but mnore importantly can break through the arm tackles which are more prevalent in snowy, icy,rainy games.


oh the avs are bakc on, got to go.

[shank]

Little Rock is one of the most violent cities in the country. It was something like 12th on the FBI's list of violent crimes per capita last time it was released. Just because he has a future in the NFL doesn't mean the scum in his neighborhood are going to leave him and his family alone. I've been fortunate enough to not live in that type of situation, so I can only imagine what it is like to not just live, but also attempt to survive (as in stay alive) every day of your life.

Back in the mid '90s HBO did a special "Bangin in the Rock" about how bad gang violence was in Little Rock, and the latest FBI list shows that things haven't gotten any better. While Rudy will tell you that NY is one of the safest cities in the country to live in, the same cannot be said of Little Rock.

if those two incidents were the only issues surrounding his character, i would gladly give him the benefit of the doubt. problem is, they're not...



EDIT: that's another great point underrated-- we already have 2 young backs who can potentially take it to the house, and showed the ability to do so last season. we need the back that can carry the load, move the chains, eat the clock, get tough yards, and stay out of trouble. we get all that in stewart, with the added bonus of amazing speed for his size and return ability.

[Tned]

then why wouldn't you JUMP at the opportunity to grab a guy like stewart who can do both?!
.

Why? Because I saw what happened to NO when they gave up so much to get Ricky Williams. Williams was a great back before he went completely off his rocker (he was partially off his rocker in NO when he would wear his helmet in interviews). While I have no doubt that McFadden would have a much bigger impact on the team than Stewart, I wouldn't want the team to sacrifice a good chunk of their draft to get him, because they have more needs. If they ONLY needed a RB to be a SB contender, then I would be all for it. However, the team has multiple needs and shouldn't give up half their draft to move into the top 5.

If by some miracle McFadden dropped to 12, then they would be idiots not to pick him.

As to impressiveness. While Stewarts 40 time at his weight might be impressive, it still is not 4.33 or 4.27 or whatever McFadden is capable of running. It isn't the type of speed where an RB pulls away from defenders and scores, rather than angling towards the sideline to get every yard possible before being knocked out of bounds.

[lex]

Why? Because I saw what happened to NO when they gave up so much to get Ricky Williams. Williams was a great back before he went completely off his rocker (he was partially off his rocker in NO when he would wear his helmet in interviews). While I have no doubt that McFadden would have a much bigger impact on the team than Stewart, I wouldn't want the team to sacrifice a good chunk of their draft to get him, because they have more needs. If they ONLY needed a RB to be a SB contender, then I would be all for it. However, the team has multiple needs and shouldn't give up half their draft to move into the top 5.

If by some miracle McFadden dropped to 12, then they would be idiots not to pick him.

As to impressiveness. While Stewarts 40 time at his weight might be impressive, it still is not 4.33 or 4.27 or whatever McFadden is capable of running. It isn't the type of speed where an RB pulls away from defenders and scores, rather than angling towards the sideline to get every yard possible before being knocked out of bounds.


If Denver was to trade a pick next year and, say, Foxworth, I could live with moving up to get him.

[shank]

Why? Because I saw what happened to NO when they gave up so much to get Ricky Williams. Williams was a great back before he went completely off his rocker (he was partially off his rocker in NO when he would wear his helmet in interviews). While I have no doubt that McFadden would have a much bigger impact on the team than Stewart, I wouldn't want the team to sacrifice a good chunk of their draft to get him, because they have more needs. If they ONLY needed a RB to be a SB contender, then I would be all for it. However, the team has multiple needs and shouldn't give up half their draft to move into the top 5.

If by some miracle McFadden dropped to 12, then they would be idiots not to pick him.

As to impressiveness. While Stewarts 40 time at his weight might be impressive, it still is not 4.33 or 4.27 or whatever McFadden is capable of running. It isn't the type of speed where an RB pulls away from defenders and scores, rather than angling towards the sideline to get every yard possible before being knocked out of bounds.

what would we be giving up to get stewart?! he will be there at 12, and if mcfadden is, i personally think we'd be stupid not to trade down, because there would definitely be a taker...

and when in the hell do you see 235 lb backs getting knocked out of bounds? stewart is the type of runner that will try and punish you when you try and tackle him, and if it's a lowly safety or cb trying to entice him out of bounds, it's not going to happen... again i'll say that it works both ways. with added weight comes added ability, just in different situations. the two backs have different styles and you are choosing between home run ability vs. tough yards ability. both can do both, but both also have their 'specialty.' we have two other backs with home run ability, lets give them someone to wear down defenses, eat clock, and make it possible for them to do their thing. and yet again i'll mention that the other 2 of the big 3 come without character risks.

[shank]

If Denver was to trade a pick next year and, say, Foxworth, I could live with moving up to get him.

i would cry because it would be more of the same from shanny. wasted value and character risk. i would start a stopwatch and be ready for when it backfires.

EDIT: it seems i've lost all of my backup lol.

[Tned]

if those two incidents were the only issues surrounding his character, i would gladly give him the benefit of the doubt. problem is, they're not...



EDIT: that's another great point underrated-- we already have 2 young backs who can potentially take it to the house, and showed the ability to do so last season. we need the back that can carry the load, move the chains, eat the clock, get tough yards, and stay out of trouble. we get all that in stewart, with the added bonus of amazing speed for his size and return ability.

Come on. Remind me again where Young and Hall were drafted? Just to refresh my memory, that was Bo Jackson, Hershell Walker, McFadden and Andre Hall that all had 40+ rushing TDs in their SEC career (yea, I know Hall and Young weren't in the SEC, but you get the point)?

I'm trying to remember, was it just McFadden and Selvin Young as the only two players to win the Doak Walker award twice? Oh yea, that was Ricky Williams, not Selvin Young as the only other player to do it.

Was it Andre Hall or McFadden that past Emmit Smith and Bo Jackson on the SEC career rushing list (in three years) and is second only to Herschell Walker?

Which back was it that holds the second most yards in a season (again behind Walker) with his 1830 in '07?

While I disagree with you guys on the 'character' issue, there is no way I can even honestly consider arguments of Young and Hall being the same type of RB as McFadden.

[lex]

i would cry because it would be more of the same from shanny. wasted value and character risk. i would start a stopwatch and be ready for when it backfires.

EDIT: it seems i've lost all of my backup lol.

I would do back flips and then laugh at you while youre crying. Seriously, you seem genuinely offended at the prospect of getting a really good player.

[Tned]

EDIT: it seems i've lost all of my backup lol.

That's because they all had flashbacks to me producing endless tomes of Jake stats and no that I am like a dog with a bone and rabies... ;)

By the way, explain this to me. If Stewart is just as good as McFadden, then why would we have all kinds of takers to trade down and let other teams take our spot and draft McFadden if he dropped to 12th? Why wouldn't they want our spot to draft Stewart?

[shank]

Come on. Remind me again where Young and Hall were drafted? Just to refresh my memory, that was Bo Jackson, Hershell Walker, McFadden and Andre Hall that all had 40+ rushing TDs in their SEC career (yea, I know Hall and Young weren't in the SEC, but you get the point)?

I'm trying to remember, was it just McFadden and Selvin Young as the only two players to win the Doak Walker award twice? Oh yea, that was Ricky Williams, not Selvin Young as the only other player to do it.

Was it Andre Hall or McFadden that past Emmit Smith and Bo Jackson on the SEC career rushing list (in three years) and is second only to Herschell Walker?

Which back was it that holds the second most yards in a season (again behind Walker) with his 1830 in '07?

While I disagree with you guys on the 'character' issue, there is no way I can even honestly consider arguments of Young and Hall being the same type of RB as McFadden.

i never said they were the same quality, and it's obviously why they are backups... but they have the ability to make big plays, which will only increase if they have a back to wear the defense down early in the game. i've said some stuff that you disagree with so far, but don't go as far as putting stupid statements into my mouth and claiming that's how i feel...

btw, isn't it ron dayne who holds the ncaa record for career yards? :coffee:

[lex]

i never said they were the same quality, and it's obviously why they are backups... but they have the ability to make big plays, which will only increase if they have a back to wear the defense down early in the game. i've said some stuff that you disagree with so far, but don't go as far as putting stupid statements into my mouth and claiming that's how i feel...

btw, isn't it ron dayne who holds the ncaa record for career yards? :coffee:

Ron Dayne was notorious for piling on yards against weaker teams and he played in the Big 10. The SEC is generally considered to be the best conference. On the other hand, he is an example of the 230 lb back that you seem to be clamoring for.

[TXBRONC]

it works both ways. what about mcfaddens 211 vs stewart's 235? what about when we only need 2 tough yards to seal a game? mcfadden's 'dead legs' or stewarts tough to tackle running style?

they are different backs, and either would be great here. again, for me it comes down to off-field issues.

The way I look at it is if Denver I has a choice between Stewart and McFadden when it's out turn to draft McFadden comes off the board before Stewart. That being said, I still don't see McFadden falling out of the top ten.

[shank]

I would do back flips and then laugh at you while youre crying. Seriously, you seem genuinely offended at the prospect of getting a really good player.

i think i just might be genuinely offended at the idea of getting mcfadden (through trading up). i would be happy to have him if he's there at 12, but would not be able to help my feeling that it's only a matter of time until he messes up. but to trade up for him with his concerns, our needs, and the quality backs (and REALLY good RB depth, we don't even really need a 1st round RB this year!!!) behind dmac, i would really be upset to see us take that route...


That's because they all had flashbacks to me producing endless tomes of Jake stats and no that I am like a dog with a bone and rabies... ;)

By the way, explain this to me. If Stewart is just as good as McFadden, then why would we have all kinds of takers to trade down and let other teams take our spot and draft McFadden if he dropped to 12th? Why wouldn't they want our spot to draft Stewart?

hey, i liked jake a lot... :D

ok, for the 3rd time:


i'm ok sacrificing a small bit of talent for a big chunk of character.

i understand that scouts think he's the more talented player, but for our situation, and my personal preferences, i see stewart as the better fit for US. i know that stewart's draft status is lower than mcfaddens, but there are busts every year. and i'm not saying mcfadden will bust, i just don't think his game will transfer to the nfl as well as stewarts. being that mcfadden was the better college back, i think this has a leveling effect on both...

also, with stewart's injury, no one will be trading up for him. sure it's a concern, but just realize that he had an amazing combine on a toe that was in such bad shape that it needed surgery very shortly after...

[Tned]

Well, it's been fun, but it is time for bed. I'm still dragging butt from this cold, and need to get some sleep. It's been a while since I have had time to really get into it over some Broncos talk, and I had a blast (even if Shawshank and Jr are wrong!!! ;)).

Here's :beer: hoping that whoever that the Broncos pick, the team will be a lot better in '08 than they were in '06 and '07.

[lex]

The way I look at it is if Denver I has a choice between Stewart and McFadden when it's out turn to draft McFadden comes off the board before Stewart. That being said, I still don't see McFadden falling out of the top ten.

Very likely. If the Raiders dont take him, I actually hope we trade up for him.

[shank]

The way I look at it is if Denver I has a choice between Stewart and McFadden when it's out turn to draft McFadden comes off the board before Stewart. That being said, I still don't see McFadden falling out of the top ten.

i actually agree with this. i'm saying if it was my choice, i would trade down (if both are there) to a spot where i can still secure stewart.

but in reality, if mcfadden somehow was there at 12, i don't see a way that we pass up on drafting him. if we did, i would be happy but reserved, and just pray that he stays out of trouble and works hard.

[shank]

Ron Dayne was notorious for piling on yards against weaker teams and he played in the Big 10. The SEC is generally considered to be the best conference. On the other hand, he is an example of the 230 lb back that you seem to be clamoring for.

tatum bell is an example of the home run hitter that you're clamoring for.

we could do that all day lex.

[lex]

i think i just might be genuinely offended at the idea of getting mcfadden (through trading up). i would be happy to have him if he's there at 12, but would not be able to help my feeling that it's only a matter of time until he messes up. but to trade up for him with his concerns, our needs, and the quality backs (and REALLY good RB depth, we don't even really need a 1st round RB this year!!!) behind dmac, i would really be upset to see us take that route...



hey, i liked jake a lot... :D

ok, for the 3rd time:



i understand that scouts think he's the more talented player, but for our situation, and my personal preferences, i see stewart as the better fit for US. i know that stewart's draft status is lower than mcfaddens, but there are busts every year. and i'm not saying mcfadden will bust, i just don't think his game will transfer to the nfl as well as stewarts. being that mcfadden was the better college back, i think this has a leveling effect on both...

also, with stewart's injury, no one will be trading up for him. sure it's a concern, but just realize that he had an amazing combine on a toe that was in such bad shape that it needed surgery very shortly after...

I dont think we should trade our 2008 picks but Id be all for parting with Foxworth, who we will likely lose anyway and a high pick next year. We're not often picking this high and I see no problem with such a move to take advantage. Chances are we wont be picking higher than 15 again next year and we will have less dead cap space and, therefore, more cap room. Im not advocating going willy-nilly next year in FA but I can live with it if it means moving to get someone good this year.

[lex]

tatum bell is an example of the home run hitter that you're clamoring for.

we could do that all day lex.

I wasnt aware Bell had similar production in college.

[Tned]

tatum bell is an example of the home run hitter that you're clamoring for.

we could do that all day lex.

Ok, before I go to bed :D

Tatum Bell was not a consensus top 5 pick. Many thought the Broncos reached for him when they picked him in the middle of the second round.

Again, just because Tatum was fast and McFadden is fast, doesn't make them the same type of back, just like Young and McFadden aren't the same.

I will have to see if I can find any stats about where McFadden ran, but my guess would be that at least 50% of his runs were between the tackles and I would suspect that most of his touchdowns (including the long ones) were between the tackles.

McFadden was not an outside running, speed back. This is a guy that whether he was lined up as QB or as RB, typically ran between the tackles or off tackle and when he went outside often was him bouncing it out when the inside run was sealed. Yes, they ran some sweeps, but McFadden made a very good living running between the tackles, without ANY threat of a passing game to help him.

[TXBRONC]

then why wouldn't you JUMP at the opportunity to grab a guy like stewart who can do both?!



i'm sure mike mayock hasn't seen the guy on film :coffee:



get a guy like stewart and you are improving the team from both aspects. win-win. same with mendenhall...

From what I'm hearing Mendenhall doesn't seem to have second gear.

[lex]

Ok, before I go to bed :D

Tatum Bell was not a consensus top 5 pick. Many thought the Broncos reached for him when they picked him in the middle of the second round.

Again, just because Tatum was fast and McFadden is fast, doesn't make them the same type of back, just like Young and McFadden aren't the same.

I will have to see if I can find any stats about where McFadden ran, but my guess would be that at least 50% of his runs were between the tackles and I would suspect that most of his touchdowns (including the long ones) were between the tackles.

McFadden was not an outside running, speed back. This is a guy that whether he was lined up as QB or as RB, typically ran between the tackles or off tackle and when he went outside often was him bouncing it out when the inside run was sealed. Yes, they ran some sweeps, but McFadden made a very good living running between the tackles, without ANY threat of a passing game to help him.

He speaks the truth.

[Tned]

He speaks the truth.

I think being an Arkansas guy, I probably am sounding about McFadden the same way that visitors to our board see us when we are talking about Cutler currently being a Top 5 QB in the NFL.

Yes, I am an Arkie Homer, but that doesn't mean McFadden isn't a VERY rare talent.

[lex]

I think being an Arkansas guy, I probably am sounding about McFadden the same way that visitors to our board see us when we are talking about Cutler currently being a Top 5 QB in the NFL.

Yes, I am an Arkie Homer, but that doesn't mean McFadden isn't a VERY rare talent.

Im a Florida fan. I have absolutely no allegiance to Arkansas other than having seen a lot McFadden. But the same reason youre perceived as a homer, is also the same reason youre getting stonewalled by many that havent seen him play as often as you.

[underrated29]

I think we all agree dmac here would be nice. I agree with shaw that trading up to get him is not good. My main thing against dmac is actually nothing..The character concern is a concern so that does weigh in.

But imo there are 2 different kind of backs.

1. Guys who need a path to go all the way.

2. Guys who make their own path to go all the way, or most of it, then finish it off on the next run.

I also think that for the BRONCOS SYSTEM a runningback who makes his own path is the best fit. Thats why if given the choice between a healhty LT and a healthy LJ, i would take LJ, but only because we are the broncos.

And we predicate our game off of the run, the PA and the boot. NO doubt dmac would major help with the boot as the d would all go one way to stop him while jay goes the other. However, just the straight run, and PA i think stewie is better.

I think we could go on for years who is better for us. And the good news is that they are both so good that either would be awesome. But since both will never get to see time in a broncos uni- its all shits and giggles

[TXBRONC]

Ok, before I go to bed :D

Tatum Bell was not a consensus top 5 pick. Many thought the Broncos reached for him when they picked him in the middle of the second round.

Again, just because Tatum was fast and McFadden is fast, doesn't make them the same type of back, just like Young and McFadden aren't the same.

I will have to see if I can find any stats about where McFadden ran, but my guess would be that at least 50% of his runs were between the tackles and I would suspect that most of his touchdowns (including the long ones) were between the tackles.

McFadden was not an outside running, speed back. This is a guy that whether he was lined up as QB or as RB, typically ran between the tackles or off tackle and when he went outside often was him bouncing it out when the inside run was sealed. Yes, they ran some sweeps, but McFadden made a very good living running between the tackles, without ANY threat of a passing game to help him.


I've seen some clips of McFadden running in between the tackles .

[shank]

I wasnt aware Bell had similar production in college.


Ok, before I go to bed :D

Tatum Bell was not a consensus top 5 pick. Many thought the Broncos reached for him when they picked him in the middle of the second round.

Again, just because Tatum was fast and McFadden is fast, doesn't make them the same type of back, just like Young and McFadden aren't the same.

I will have to see if I can find any stats about where McFadden ran, but my guess would be that at least 50% of his runs were between the tackles and I would suspect that most of his touchdowns (including the long ones) were between the tackles.

McFadden was not an outside running, speed back. This is a guy that whether he was lined up as QB or as RB, typically ran between the tackles or off tackle and when he went outside often was him bouncing it out when the inside run was sealed. Yes, they ran some sweeps, but McFadden made a very good living running between the tackles, without ANY threat of a passing game to help him.

fine, reggie bush. not a bust, but did not meet expectations and hasn't shown signs that he will live up to his draft position...


it seems we must agree to disagree because no one is changing their minds. mix our stubornness with the purely theoretical nature of the argument and it's clear that it's the offseason.

you guys owe me a beer if mcfadden finds himself in trouble though :beer:

[TXBRONC]

i actually agree with this. i'm saying if it was my choice, i would trade down (if both are there) to a spot where i can still secure stewart.

but in reality, if mcfadden somehow was there at 12, i don't see a way that we pass up on drafting him. if we did, i would be happy but reserved, and just pray that he stays out of trouble and works hard.

Realistically McFadden will be long gone before draft, so what would be wrong with taking Stewart with 12th overall pick?

[shank]

Realistically McFadden will be long gone before draft, so what would be wrong with taking Stewart with 12th overall pick?

imo, absolutely nothing. stewart-williams-mendenhall. my draft board for 12 ovr.

[lex]

fine, reggie bush. not a bust, but did not meet expectations and hasn't shown signs that he will live up to his draft position...


it seems we must agree to disagree because no one is changing their minds. mix our stubornness with the purely theoretical nature of the argument and it's clear that it's the offseason.

you guys owe me a beer if mcfadden finds himself in trouble though :beer:


Reggie Bush? Thats less accurate than the Bell comparison. When Bush played at USC, his team had better personnel than the team they played practically man for man in almost all their games. Bush played with a heisman winning QB and a stable of WRs that went early in the draft. McFadden played with Casey Dick and during his last year at Arkansas their leading WR was their fullback. I could go on. Nice try though.

[lex]

Realistically McFadden will be long gone before draft, so what would be wrong with taking Stewart with 12th overall pick?


Mendenhall would be better.

[lex]

I think we all agree dmac here would be nice. I agree with shaw that trading up to get him is not good. My main thing against dmac is actually nothing..The character concern is a concern so that does weigh in.

But imo there are 2 different kind of backs.

1. Guys who need a path to go all the way.

2. Guys who make their own path to go all the way, or most of it, then finish it off on the next run.

I also think that for the BRONCOS SYSTEM a runningback who makes his own path is the best fit. Thats why if given the choice between a healhty LT and a healthy LJ, i would take LJ, but only because we are the broncos.

And we predicate our game off of the run, the PA and the boot. NO doubt dmac would major help with the boot as the d would all go one way to stop him while jay goes the other. However, just the straight run, and PA i think stewie is better.

I think we could go on for years who is better for us. And the good news is that they are both so good that either would be awesome. But since both will never get to see time in a broncos uni- its all shits and giggles

No. Thats not correct.

[Tned]

Reggie Bush? Thats less accurate than the Bell comparison. When Bush played at USC, his team had better personnel than the team they played practically man for man in almost all their games. Bush played with a heisman winning QB and a stable of WRs that went early in the draft. McFadden played with Casey Dick and during his last year at Arkansas their leading WR was their fullback. I could go on. Nice try though.

Yea, the people that didn't watch any Arkansas games can't possibly grasp how pitiful the offense was outside of McFadden and Jones.

One play that sums up just how pitiful they were. Two years ago when they were playing Florida (I think in the SEC championship game). Arkansas had two passing TD's, one from McFadden to Felix Jones, and one from a WR, Cedric Washington, to Felix Jones.

When they were running low on time in the fourth quarter, but putting a drive together and finding themselves 3rd and 5 or possibly 4th and 5 or so (can't remember specifically), they didn't even have enough confidence in the QB to send him in, but instead sent in McFadden. Not for a running play, but for a passing play, which they didn't complete and season over.

Unlike Bush on USC, where Lendale White was the bruising back, and Bush was the dynamic change of pace/receiving back that went along with Matt Leinart led passing game, at Arkansas McFadden had to assume the rule of White, Bush and Leinart all in one.

[underrated29]

No. Thats not correct.

well first off lex that was an opinion, so it couldnt be correct or incorrect as it was an opinion.

But please elaborate what is not correct in your mind to what i said.

[BOSSHOGG30]

imo, absolutely nothing. stewart-williams-mendenhall. my draft board for 12 ovr.

your draft board looks just like mine unless Sederick Ellis, Jake Long, or Glenn Dorsey drop.

[shank]

your draft board looks just like mine unless Sederick Ellis, Jake Long, or Glenn Dorsey drop.

definitely, i just don't see the chances of that as high enough to write those names every time lol. i guess i'm lazy.

[BOSSHOGG30]

definitely, i just don't see the chances of that as high enough to write those names every time lol. i guess i'm lazy.

If we got what you have in your sig I would be a very happy Bronco fan.

[LRtagger]

Amen to that

[shank]

If we got what you have in your sig I would be a very happy Bronco fan.

me too, and i think it's potentially pretty realistic...

as far as those players being available, not that the broncos will ever actually select them lol.

laws and schmitt might not be there at those picks, but neither is out of the question. i need to make another mock based on us selecting chris williams in the 1st (although i hope that the harris praise form broncoville is legit and we really don't need a STUD OT).

[LRtagger]

and it would REALLY benefit us to pick up a 3rd rounder...that would be the best place to pick up a WR

[TXBRONC]

Mendenhall would be better.

I heard that he doesn't have second gear.

[broncohead]

Forth and 4 on the goal line with 10 seconds remaining down by 5.
Handoff to Stewart, the line breaks down but wait Stewart drags 3 guys into the endzone for a touchdown.

Handoff to Mendenhall, the line breaks down, sidesteps the first but only gets back to the line of scrimage.

Handoff to McFadden, the line breaks down, he trys bouncing it outside and gets a loss of 2.

[TXBRONC]

Forth and 4 on the goal line with 10 seconds remaining down by 5.
Handoff to Stewart, the line breaks down but wait Stewart drags 3 guys into the endzone for a touchdown.

Handoff to Mendenhall, the line breaks down, sidesteps the first but only gets back to the line of scrimage.

Handoff to McFadden, the line breaks down, he trys bouncing it outside and gets a loss of 2.



From what I have seen of McFadden (and I admit I haven't seen him play a lot) he would find the end zone.

[broncohead]

From what I have seen of McFadden (and I admit I haven't seen him play a lot) he would find the end zone.

What I've seen of him is that if there isn't anything inside he tries bouncing it outside instead of taking a no gain. In college most of the time it works because of his speed. I don't see it happening that often in the pro's. Now in my scenerio bouncing it outside for McFadden's style of running would be the best option for a touchdown at he end of a game.

[Lonestar]

What I've seen of him is that if there isn't anything inside he tries bouncing it outside instead of taking a no gain. In college most of the time it works because of his speed. I don't see it happening that often in the pro's. Now in my scenerio bouncing it outside for McFadden's style of running would be the best option for a touchdown at he end of a game.


The least distance is almost always the way to go inside the 5 yard line.. The more distance the more time the defense has to react..

[Tned]

Forth and 4 on the goal line with 10 seconds remaining down by 5.
Handoff to Stewart, the line breaks down but wait Stewart drags 3 guys into the endzone for a touchdown.

Handoff to Mendenhall, the line breaks down, sidesteps the first but only gets back to the line of scrimage.

Handoff to McFadden, the line breaks down, he trys bouncing it outside and gets a loss of 2.


What I've seen of him is that if there isn't anything inside he tries bouncing it outside instead of taking a no gain. In college most of the time it works because of his speed. I don't see it happening that often in the pro's. Now in my scenerio bouncing it outside for McFadden's style of running would be the best option for a touchdown at he end of a game.

Spoken like someone who hasn't seen much of McFadden. When he is inside the 10 he almost always goes straight up the middle. I'm sure he might have bounced it out a few times, but I can't remember seeing it. What I have seen is him bursting up the middle and pushing through guys when there isn't a hole.

Some people that didn't watch him much have made assumptions because people have talked about his skinny legs, which others that haven't watched him have equated to powerless or dead.

Here are just the first 5 or 6 scouting profiles that came up in Google. You notice you see things like willing inside runner, amazing yards after contact, doesn't go down on first contact, etc, etc.

No place do you see he can't run up the middle and bounces it outside too much.

On the other hand, this is what Scouts Inc. says about Stewart:


Strengths: Is a compactly built back with excellent body control. Shifty and quick; he runs low to the ground and has good change-of-direction skills. Shows very good initial quickness and also displays a second-gear when he gets through the line of scrimmage. Has made significant strides in terms of vision and patience as a runner throughout his career. Displays reliable hands as a receiver. Gets up the field quickly after the catch and can be a huge weapon when he catches the ball on the run in space. Has size and strength to anchor (when in position) versus blitzing linebacker in pass pro. Displays excellent potential as a kick return specialist and was one of the nation's best when allowed to spend time in that facet of the game.

Weaknesses: He's compactly built and strong, but he's not a power back. He doesn't look to initiate contact much and he will run out of bounds instead of lowering his shoulder for extra yards on occasion. He goes down a bit too easily at times, as well. Not overly physical as a blocker. Still has room to improve in terms of awareness as a pass blocker. Will take some poor angles and doesn't always appear to be confident in his assignment.

Sounds like a pretty weak running 235lb back....

Mendenhall gets better praise:


Strengths: Thickly and powerfully built back. Possesses adequate height, a strong lower body and enormous arms. Runs with adequate pad-level and will generate lots of yards after initial contact. Drives his legs and always seems to be falling forward. Vision and patience are adequate to good. Shows above-average initial quickness and outstanding burst when bouncing runs outside. Very few backs his size share such a noticeable second-gear (see: 2008 Rose Bowl vs. USC). He is a reliable pass-catcher with a good feel for getting open underneath. Can pluck the ball on the run and is dangerous in the open field with a head of steam. Is more than willing in pass pro and possesses the size/strength to anchor versus blitzing linebackers. Does not have a lot of wear on his tires and his best football should be ahead of him.

Weaknesses: Not overly elusive and won't generate many yards by making defenders miss in space. Had some fumbling issues earlier in his career. Only one season as fulltime load carrier at collegiate level. Will need some time to adjust to blitz pickup in NFL. Awareness in that regard is only decent. While he has been a productive receiver, he needs to do a better job of catching with his hands rather than allowing it to frequently get into his body. Off-season conditioning has never been his strength. Doesn't have much room left on frame to add bulk, so he will need to guard against adding unnecessary weight.

Now compare it to what they are saying about McFadden...

Scout.com profile:


Best RB to enter the draft in the past two decades. Is a big explosive athlete, who showed excellent quicks & moves in the hole. Breaks secured tackles and finishes his runs. Judges distances well & showed real talent at the corner. Good backside vision & the ability to take it to the house. Can evaporate the pursuit angle with his great burst. Excellent hands & was extremely dangerous in space. A difference maker in every sense of the word.

ESPN/Scouts Inc. Profile:


Strengths: Phenomenal athlete. Possesses good height and adequate bulk (better upper-body than lower-body). Rare burst for his size; no play better illustrates that second-gear better than his 73-yard touchdown run in the third quarter versus LSU. He runs with good vision and great patience but explodes through the line of scrimmage once he finds the crease. Very few NFL runners possess his type of second-gear to bounce runs outside and to run away from defenders in the open field. Very fluid in space and can change directions without losing much momentum at all. He can be a powerful runner with a full head of steam. Exceptional stiff arm. Very strong upper body. Keeps his legs pumping in traffic and will break many attempted arm tackles. Displays outstanding balance. Will gain lots of yards after contact simply because he bounces off the tackler and regains his balance instead of going down. Lacks ideal experience as a receiver but is fluid enough to adjust to poorly thrown ball and displays very soft hands for a RB. Can also be an occasional passing threat in the NFL, as seen in his dual-threat role as the signal caller in the Razorbacks' Wild Hog formation.

Weaknesses: He runs a bit high and his lower-body is a bit lean. Has never been forced to carry a full 25-30 carry throughout a full season in college. Had carried the ball more than 30 times in just five games during his three seasons at Arkansas. Ran out of gas late in Alabama game (2007). Lacks ideal experience as a receiver. Needs some polishing as a route runner. Also could be more aggressive as blocker; must learn to attack with better leverage. Character must also be studied. Is there more to the minor off-the-field incidents than we are led to believe?

Draftdog.com profile:


If McFadden would have been in the 2007 NFL Draft he probably would have been drafted over Oklahoma's heralded running back Adrian Peterson, he has better hands and is more durable.

McFadden has been nothing short of spectacular the last two years with the Razorbacks, as a freshman in 2005 he shattered the record books by rushing for 1,113 yards and 11 TDs. He was only the second freshman in SEC history, after Herschel Walker, to gain over 1000 yards. Last year as a sophomore (2006) he won the Doak Walker Award and finished second in the Heisman voting while rushing for 1,620 yards and 14 TDs with a 5.9 yards per carry average.

Big and fast with great hands, in high school he ran the 100 meters in 10.8 seconds. He looks to be an NFL franchise running back, a durable workhorse. Darren is very shifty and strong, he rarely goes down upon first contact. He explodes through the hole with an unprecedented burst, defenders have difficulty taking proper angles due to his world class speed. McFadden is much bigger, stronger and faster than what people think. His size/speed combination hasn't been seen before in college football since Bo Jackson.

Scott Wright's Draft Countdown:


Strengths:
An outstanding natural athlete...Has very good size...Excellent timed speed with a burst...Has great vision and instincts...Big play threat who can take it the distance at any time..Elusive with nice feet..Quick and agile...Real strong...Tough and loves contact...Runs hard and does not go down easy...Has decent hands and can be a weapon in the passing game..Plays with a nasty demeanor..Extremely productive.

Weaknesses:
Has some off-the-field and character questions...Legs and lower body are a little thin....Might run too high and open himself up to big hits...Could still improve as a blocker...Does not have a ton of experience as a receiver...Did not really play in a conventional offense in college and shared the workload...Ball security is an issue.

Notes:
Burst onto the scene as a true freshman...The Heisman Trophy runner-up as both a sophomore and a junior...In the summer of '06 he dislocated his toe (which later required surgery) while trying to kick someone during a fight outside a night club at 4am...In January of 2008 was handcuffed during a disturbance outside of a bar shortly after midnight because according to the police report he was agitated and provoking aggressive behavior inciting the incident....Often worked as a shotgun quarterback in the Razorbacks "Wildcat" package and showed the ability to throw the ball...Pure football player with all the physical tools who is as good or perhaps an even better prospect than Adrian Peterson was coming out...A rare talent who should rank amongst the top running backs in the NFL very early in his pro career

Footballfutures.com:


McFadden was a backup the first two games of his college career, but has taken off since then. He had an amazing freshmen season, rushing for 1,113 yards and 11 touchdowns, earning Freshmen All American honors. As good as that season was, his sohpomore year was spectacular. He won the Doak Walker Award, and was the Heisman runner up after rushing for 1,647 yards and 14 touchdowns, despite being slowed by a dislocated toe at the start of the year.

McFadden is the total package. He has excellent size, speed, and athleticism. He is a willing interior runner, and will not be brought down by the first defender. Once a hole opens up, he hits it and is in the open field ready for a big play. What makes McFadden special is that he is a gamebreaker, along with being a guy that can pound it between the tackles. He has the speed to get to the outside, and the speed to outrun defensive backs.

There really isn’t anything to criticize about McFadden, other than things that every college back needs to work on. He will have to work on his blitz pickup at the next level, and work on his receiving skills. He’s proven to be a playmaker as a receiver, but has not been asked to catch the ball very often. The only real flaw in his game, may be that he runs a little upright, which will open him up for some big hits in the NFL.

Darren McFadden has the size, the speed, and the success in the SEC on his resume. He has the all around ability to be a superstar in the NFL, and is a worthy top five selection. He may slide a bit because of team needs, but he should be big time in the NFL

About.com:


Scouting Report: The only SEC player other than Herschel Walker to rush for 1,000 yards as a freshman, sophomore and junior, Darren McFadden is in pretty good company when it comes to making his mark on college football. Over the past couple seasons, he has emerged as the nation's best running back, displaying a rare combination of speed, vision, and balance. He's also a surprisingly physical blocker when he doesn't have the ball. He could, however, stand to improve his blocking technique a little.
He's also not much of a factor in Arkansas' passing attack, but with solid coaching I see no reason why he couldn't improve in that area.

One thing that will stand out for NFL scouts is his ability to get yards after contact. He also seems to enjoy punishing would-be tacklers. Because of his style of play, though, it might be to his benefit to add a few more pounds to his frame, because he will take a pounding in the NFL.
McFadden should be a top-10 selection in the 2008 NFL Draft.

ESPN Report of Arkansas Pro day and McFadden's 'jaw dropping' shuttle time:


Arkansas RB Darren McFadden finished his three-year career as the SEC's second all-time leading rusher with 4,590 yards in 38 games, second only to Herschel Walker's 5,259 yards in 33 games. McFadden clearly had little to prove at Arkansas' pro day workouts Tuesday, and he understandably opted not to run a 40-yard dash after posting a 4.33 time at last month's combine. McFadden did, however, fill in the blanks in the short shuttle (4.05), three-cone drill (6.90) and bench press (13).

The bench number is disappointing, especially as the average reps for backs at the combine this year was 21 and several people recently witnessed McFadden put up 20 reps. However, scouts really couldn't care less because upper-body strength doesn't have a substantial impact on a running back's ability and 13 isn't an atrocious number. The short shuttle time, on the other hand, is jaw-dropping. In fact, the second-fastest short shuttle time we've seen thus far is Illinois RB Rashard Mendenhall's 4.18 at the combine.

[TXBRONC]

Spoken like someone who hasn't seen much of McFadden. When he is inside the 10 he almost always goes straight up the middle. I'm sure he might have bounced it out a few times, but I can't remember seeing it. What I have seen is him bursting up the middle and pushing through guys when there isn't a hole.

Some people that didn't watch him much have made assumptions because people have talked about his skinny legs, which others that haven't watched him have equated to powerless or dead.

Here are just the first 5 or 6 scouting profiles that came up in Google. You notice you see things like willing inside runner, amazing yards after contact, doesn't go down on first contact, etc, etc.

No place do you see he can't run up the middle and bounces it outside too much.

On the other hand, this is what Scouts Inc. says about Stewart:



Sounds like a pretty weak running 235lb back....

Mendenhall gets better praise:



Now compare it to what they are saying about McFadden...

Scout.com profile:



ESPN/Scouts Inc. Profile:



Draftdog.com profile:



Scott Wright's Draft Countdown:



Footballfutures.com:



About.com:



ESPN Report of Arkansas Pro day and McFadden's 'jaw dropping' shuttle time:

I wonder what it would be like to be a position to draft him? Unfortunately I don't think we'll get to find out.

[broncohead]

I have admit Tned I have only seen a couple of games with McFadden in them but what I got out of those games where that he liked to use his speed and bounce a couple of plays outside when he could have taken it up the middle. On the big plays that he has had nobody touches him. It's off to the races. Thats just what I've personally seen.

[broncohead]

I don't agree with the Stewart analysis by scouts inc. I've seen him drag multiple players to gain the tough yards.

[Tned]

I have admit Tned I have only seen a couple of games with McFadden in them but what I got out of those games where that he liked to use his speed and bounce a couple of plays outside when he could have taken it up the middle. On the big plays that he has had nobody touches him. It's off to the races. Thats just what I've personally seen.

There are plenty of highlight reels. I will post some and you will see a lot of runs up the middle, many of which then turn into huge runs, but others that are 5-10 yard scores.

When he lined up at shotgun/QB in the Wildcat/Wildhog formation, there were basically three plays they ran (a few more, but the majority were one of these three):


Handoff to Felix Jones running sweep/outside
Fake handoff to Jone, McFadden running straight up the middle
McFadden running a fake sweep and passing the ball


It's message board banter that leads people to believe he is an outside runner, can't break tackles, etc. This is the very reason you don't read any of those problems in the scouting reports, because the people that watched the film, rather than made assumptions based on his skinny legs and rare speed, know that he is a hard nosed runner.


I wonder what it would be like to be a position to draft him? Unfortunately I don't think we'll get to find out.

Agreed, which is what makes most of this talk moot, but still fun none-the-less :D

[Tned]

I don't agree with the Stewart analysis by scouts inc. I've seen him drag multiple players to gain the tough yards.

Really, I saw him play a couple times and he always went down after first contact ;)

[TXBRONC]

There are plenty of highlight reels. I will post some and you will see a lot of runs up the middle, many of which then turn into huge runs, but others that are 5-10 yard scores.

When he lined up at shotgun/QB in the Wildcat/Wildhog formation, there were basically three plays they ran (a few more, but the majority were one of these three):


Handoff to Felix Jones running sweep/outside
Fake handoff to Jone, McFadden running straight up the middle
McFadden running a fake sweep and passing the ball


It's message board banter that leads people to believe he is an outside runner, can't break tackles, etc. This is the very reason you don't read any of those problems in the scouting reports, because the people that watched the film, rather than made assumptions based on his skinny legs and rare speed, know that he is a hard nosed runner.



Agreed, which is what makes most of this talk moot, but still fun none-the-less :D

True it is fun.

[TXBRONC]

Really, I saw him play a couple times and he always went down after first contact ;)


I wonder if that toe injury effected the way he played.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Looks pretty good to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FCfZoPGEFA

[TXBRONC]

Looks pretty good to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FCfZoPGEFA

I've seen that highlight video before, there is no doubt that McFadden is an exciting player.

[underrated29]

I see jstew as a classic exapmle of the scouts looking at him like they did marhsall or brady or td.

In the spread offense, they say its hard to analyse them. They dont have tons of flashy runs, or things like that. SO they just go off of some small film, see that stew tries to deke a lot to make the run bigger instead of just using his strength and he gets tackled...So now he goes down easy. He wont go down easy in the nfl- i promise.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I see jstew as a classic exapmle of the scouts looking at him like they did marhsall or brady or td.

In the spread offense, they say its hard to analyse them. They dont have tons of flashy runs, or things like that. SO they just go off of some small film, see that stew tries to deke a lot to make the run bigger instead of just using his strength and he gets tackled...So now he goes down easy. He wont go down easy in the nfl- i promise.

I think Stewie runs a lot like Tomlinson. Tomlinson is a big guy but he doesn't always plow over people. He can if he wants to or needs to, but he does try to avoid it... Stewie is similar.

[lex]

Well this was a good discussion guys. And Im even more convinced now than I was before that we should take him. I try not to think about this possibility because its extremely unlikely but like someone said, its fun to think about the possibilities with McFadden running the ball. He and Cutler would be incredible.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Well this was a good discussion guys. And Im even more convinced now than I was before that we should take him. I try not to think about this possibility because its extremely unlikely but like someone said, its fun to think about the possibilities with McFadden running the ball. He and Cutler would be incredible.

I agree, Any of the top 4 backs would be very exciting. McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Charles.

They all have lots of talent and would help the Broncos greatly.

[lex]

I agree, Any of the top 4 backs would be very exciting. McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, Charles.

They all have lots of talent and would help the Broncos greatly.

I was talking about McFadden in particular. But I agree, if we can take Charles in the 2nd, we should.

[broncohead]

Looks pretty good to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FCfZoPGEFA

He breaks a lot of arm tackles and thats about it. The big plays nobody hardly touches him. I saw 1 or 2 plays where there was contact and he made the big play.

[Tned]

He breaks a lot of arm tackles and thats about it. The big plays nobody hardly touches him. I saw 1 or 2 plays where there was contact and he made the big play.

Yes, but that was one person making highlights of the big runs. Most people don't choose to put the 5 yard grindem out runs in highlight reels. Some of the scout videos have the shorter runs. I will try and get some posted this weekend if I can find them again.

[TXBRONC]

He breaks a lot of arm tackles and thats about it. The big plays nobody hardly touches him. I saw 1 or 2 plays where there was contact and he made the big play.


BH that kind of sounds like you're criticizing McFadden because the competition can't catch him.

[lex]

BH that kind of sounds like you're criticizing McFadden because the competition can't catch him.

Indeed. Sometimes thats the difference between 4.33 and 4.48.

[broncohead]

BH that kind of sounds like you're criticizing McFadden because the competition can't catch him.

I'm not. He is a great talent. Fast, explosive, and can turn the momentem of a game with one play. I just don't think he'll be as good as Mendenhall or Stewart. I hope he isn't there at 12 so the coaches won't have the option of taking him. I'd rather have Stewart or Mendenhall.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not. He is a great talent. Fast, explosive, and can turn the momentem of a game with one play. I just don't think he'll be as good as Mendenhall or Stewart. I hope he isn't there at 12 so the coaches won't have the option of taking him. I'd rather have Stewart or Mendenhall.

Draft experts think he'll be better than Stewart or Mendenhall. I don't think you need worry about McFadden dropping down to 12, he'll be long gone before then.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

fumbles WAY too much for someone who can outrun everyone.

[TXBRONC]

fumbles WAY too much for someone who can outrun everyone.

That is correctable.

[Tned]

fumbles WAY too much for someone who can outrun everyone.

Yep, about the ONLY legitimate issue with him.

Mendenhall had fumbling problems early in his career, according to scouting reports, but apparently corrected it.

[shank]

Yep, about the ONLY legitimate issue with him.

Mendenhall had fumbling problems early in his career, according to scouting reports, but apparently corrected it.

his character concerns are 1093483493 times more legitimate than his children.

[Tned]

his character concerns are 1093483493 times more legitimate than his children.

If I was a little more religious than I currently am, I would say something like "judge not, lest you be judged.."

[shank]

If I was a little more religious than I currently am, I would say something like "judge not, lest you be judged.."

i am smart enough to protect myself from such criticisms.

even without millions of dollars on the line.

[Tned]

i am smart enough to protect myself from such criticisms.

even without millions of dollars on the line.

I just think the whole 'character issue' thing has gotten blown out of proportion (on message boards and in the press) the last couple years. Guys entering the NFL have always had character issues, we just have more intensive press coverage these days.

The whole 'character issue' buzzword thrown around left and right reminds me of the "managing the game" buzzword thrown around by people that didn't want to admit that Jake was simply playing better in Denver than he had in AZ.

For whatever reason, this character issue stuff has become a pet peave of mine, probably because I have witnessed decades of NFL players with character issues based on how I judge people, and have witnessed these guys be successful and cheered by fans.

[shank]

I just think the whole 'character issue' thing has gotten blown out of proportion (on message boards and in the press) the last couple years. Guys entering the NFL have always had character issues, we just have more intensive press coverage these days.

The whole 'character issue' buzzword thrown around left and right reminds me of the "managing the game" buzzword thrown around by people that didn't want to admit that Jake was simply playing better in Denver than he had in AZ.

For whatever reason, this character issue stuff has become a pet peave of mine, probably because I have witnessed decades of NFL players with character issues based on how I judge people, and have witnessed these guys be successful and cheered by fans.

character concerns are legitimized under roger goodell's rule. things have changed and it's a real issue.

we've already had this discussion and we disagree.

[Tned]

character concerns are legitimized under roger goodell's rule. things have changed and it's a real issue.

we've already had this discussion and we disagree.

Yep, we disagree both in how much character issues should be considered in general, and how much of a character risk McFadden is specifically (risk/reward wise).

[shank]

Yep, we disagree both in how much character issues should be considered in general, and how much of a character risk McFadden is specifically (risk/reward wise).

agreed. lol.

[Tned]

agreed. lol.

Well, maybe I don't agree!!!!! :mad:

Or, maybe I am just bored waiting on my last 1.5gig account to transfer between servers :lol:

[shank]

Well, maybe I don't agree!!!!! :mad:

Or, maybe I am just bored waiting on my last 1.5gig account to transfer between servers :lol:

did you hit that link i gave you in the lounge? it seriously has magical time passing capabilites...


(it's either that or it actually slows down time exponentially, i don't remember which it is lol)

[Tned]

did you hit that link i gave you in the lounge? it seriously has magical time passing capabilites...


(it's either that or it actually slows down time exponentially, i don't remember which it is lol)

I did, but after about 2 minutes I started to fall asleep. I'm in bed with my little asus eee pc, so it won't take much for me to doze off.

[WARHORSE]

I just think the whole 'character issue' thing has gotten blown out of proportion (on message boards and in the press) the last couple years. Guys entering the NFL have always had character issues, we just have more intensive press coverage these days.

The whole 'character issue' buzzword thrown around left and right reminds me of the "managing the game" buzzword thrown around by people that didn't want to admit that Jake was simply playing better in Denver than he had in AZ.

For whatever reason, this character issue stuff has become a pet peave of mine, probably because I have witnessed decades of NFL players with character issues based on how I judge people, and have witnessed these guys be successful and cheered by fans.


That buzzword might affect you differently if you were paying gazillions of dollars in order to win.......only to lose.

Kinda makes you look at it differently......:coffee:


......err....not that Ive done that mind you.........:rolleyes:

[Tned]

That buzzword might affect you differently if you were paying gazillions of dollars in order to win.......only to lose.

Kinda makes you look at it differently......:coffee:


......err....not that Ive done that mind you.........:rolleyes:

Which is why the actual NFL clubs clearly view the risk/rewards of 'character issues' differently than us message board types.

Remember when Randy Moss was a character risk and some NFL teams weren't sure if they wanted him? Most teams are willing to take a 'little' risk on 'character issues' when there is a HUGE upside.

[shank]

Which is why the actual NFL clubs clearly view the risk/rewards of 'character issues' differently than us message board types.

Remember when Randy Moss was a character risk and some NFL teams weren't sure if they wanted him? Most teams are willing to take a 'little' risk on 'character issues' when there is a HUGE upside.

it's just like any job.

an office manager position may have two cantidates, one who has 2 more years of experience than the other, but also has a felony on his record.

some business owners will take the risk, others will write the guy off.


i still can't ignore marcus thomas. he seemed to have matured and was doing great, despite his character concerns. then one stupid move where he reverts back to his old ways and he almost blows everything and could have worsened our already dire DT situation.

if marcus had gotten in trouble during the season think of the huge distraction it would have been, and how much his play could have suffered (a la t-henry). if the same thing happens again, maybe goodell starts suspending him or punishing the team in some way.

i just don't like the idea of any of it, when there are guys without these risks below him in the draft. it all just levels out to me...

i've said this before and you disagreed with it then, so i don't know why i'm writing it again. i guess i'm bored.

[Tned]

it's just like any job.

an office manager position may have two cantidates, one who has 2 more years of experience than the other, but also has a felony on his record.

some business owners will take the risk, others will write the guy off.

That's a bad comparison. McFadden doesn't have a felony on his record. Further, to make that analogy work, you wouldn't be talking about someone with two years more experience, you would be talking about hiring a wiz kid, genius that only comes along once every decade or two, to a kid coming out of college that can do the job, but is nothing special. Then, if you wanted to use your 'felony' being the difference, it might be a solid analogy.


i still can't ignore marcus thomas. he seemed to have matured and was doing great, despite his character concerns. then one stupid move where he reverts back to his old ways and he almost blows everything and could have worsened our already dire DT situation.

if marcus had gotten in trouble during the season think of the huge distraction it would have been, and how much his play could have suffered (a la t-henry). if the same thing happens again, maybe goodell starts suspending him or punishing the team in some way.

i just don't like the idea of any of it, when there are guys without these risks below him in the draft. it all just levels out to me...

i've said this before and you disagreed with it then, so i don't know why i'm writing it again. i guess i'm bored.

Again, not a solid comparison. I don't think McFadden ever even missed a game due to his 'alleged' character issues, forget being suspended, being given a second chance and then being kicked off the team.

I know you have said that what McFadden did was FAR worse than Marcus Thomas, but obviously that opinion doesn't hold water, or McFadden would have been the player kicked off the team and falling to the second day of the draft, rather than Marcus Thomas.

[WARHORSE]

That's a bad comparison. McFadden doesn't have a felony on his record. Further, to make that analogy work, you wouldn't be talking about someone with two years more experience, you would be talking about hiring a wiz kid, genius that only comes along once every decade or two, to a kid coming out of college that can do the job, but is nothing special. Then, if you wanted to use your 'felony' being the difference, it might be a solid analogy.



Again, not a solid comparison. I don't think McFadden ever even missed a game due to his 'alleged' character issues, forget being suspended, being given a second chance and then being kicked off the team.

I know you have said that what McFadden did was FAR worse than Marcus Thomas, but obviously that opinion doesn't hold water, or McFadden would have been the player kicked off the team and falling to the second day of the draft, rather than Marcus Thomas.


Some support Tned:


Updated: March 25, 2008





Arkansas RB Darren McFadden (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=12135&draftyear=2008) finished his three-year career as the SEC's second all-time leading rusher with 4,590 yards in 38 games, second only to Herschel Walker's 5,259 yards in 33 games. McFadden clearly had little to prove at Arkansas' pro day workouts Tuesday, and he understandably opted not to run a 40-yard dash after posting a 4.33 time at last month's combine. McFadden did, however, fill in the blanks in the short shuttle (4.05), three-cone drill (6.90) and bench press (13).
[+] Enlarge (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3311410#)

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1128/ncf_g_mcfadden_300.jpg (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3311410#) Chris Graythen/Getty Images
Darren McFadden has showcased his athletic ability twice and has assuaged character concerns.


The bench number is disappointing, especially as the average reps for backs at the combine this year was 21 and several people recently witnessed McFadden put up 20 reps. However, scouts really couldn't care less because upper-body strength doesn't have a substantial impact on a running back's ability and 13 isn't an atrocious number. The short shuttle time, on the other hand, is jaw-dropping. In fact, the second-fastest short shuttle time we've seen thus far is Illinois RB Rashard Mendenhall's 4.18 at the combine.




As expected, 6-foot-1, 211-pound McFadden also looked strong during an extensive position drill workout. Perhaps more importantly, we talked to four scouts and not one of them has an ounce of concern about McFadden's character. This is a good sign, as it comes after teams have done their due diligence in investigating his off-the-field incidents. One of the scouts we spoke with went as far as to say McFadden has elite football character, meaning he is a tough player and an excellent teammate.
Speculation about his draft projection remains the same, however. Several NFL insiders indicated that, barring a trade, McFadden is expected to go No. 4 overall to the Oakland Raiders or No. 6 to the New York Jets. After hearing that, it came as little surprise to see Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum leaving the field and having a lengthy discussion with McFadden.
On hand to witness the workouts of McFadden, Felix Jones (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=12154) and the 15 other Arkansas prospects were more than 50 coaches and scouts from 26 of the 32 teams. Head coaches often avoid public workouts and hang around to work out a player individually, and the only visible head coach at the workout Tuesday was Chicago's Lovie Smith.

[Bronco9798]

Which is why the actual NFL clubs clearly view the risk/rewards of 'character issues' differently than us message board types.

Remember when Randy Moss was a character risk and some NFL teams weren't sure if they wanted him? Most teams are willing to take a 'little' risk on 'character issues' when there is a HUGE upside.

Like we did with Maurice Clarett.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Khouck001/20060103_115119_ol03clarett.jpg

[Tned]

Like we did with Maurice Clarett.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Khouck001/20060103_115119_ol03clarett.jpg

Yes. but...

A major difference there was that many thought Clarett might go undrafted, and if someone did take a flyer, it would be late on the second day of the draft. The Broncos shocked pretty much everyone taking him in the 3rd.

I haven't heard anyone comparing McFadden to Clarett. Instead, he seems to be a consensus top 10, with most people feeling he will go in the top 5.

[Bronco9798]

Yes. but...

A major difference there was that many thought Clarett might go undrafted, and if someone did take a flyer, it would be late on the second day of the draft. The Broncos shocked pretty much everyone taking him in the 3rd.

I haven't heard anyone comparing McFadden to Clarett. Instead, he seems to be a consensus top 10, with most people feeling he will go in the top 5.

We only shocked Dallas who was ready to jump on MC after us. We saved them the embarrassment and did it to ourselves. It was a stupid pick. MC would of been projected very high if not for all the personal issues. And, I'm not comparing him to Mcfadden, never did. I just needed a MC moment and that thread I posted to brought it out! :D I'll never forget the vomit in my mouth when they announced his name.......

[Tned]

We only shocked Dallas who was ready to jump on MC after us. We saved them the embarrassment and did it to ourselves. It was a stupid pick. MC would of been projected very high if not for all the personal issues. And, I'm not comparing him to Mcfadden, never did. I just needed a MC moment and that thread I posted to brought it out! :D I'll never forget the vomit in my mouth when they announced his name.......

The ESPN announcers were all pretty shocked. Even though I think there had been some speculation earlier, they still thought it was a very risky move, which obviously was how it turned out.

[Tned]

Interesting read, and some perspective on the nice 'quaint' city of Little Rock that he comes from.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/03/29/2008-03-29_after_home_life_from_hell_darren_mcfadde.html?p age=0


After home life from hell, Darren McFadden racing to put past behind him
BY RICH CIMINI
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Updated Sunday, March 30th 2008, 10:54 AM

Liebenberg/Getty
Darren McFadden's off-field issues are a concern going into the draft.

McFarland/Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
McFadden's mother, Mini Muhammad, is now clean after years of abusing crack, which she often purchased from another of her sons.

FAYETTEVILLE, ARK. - Blessed with 4.33 speed in the 40-yard dash, crazy fast for a 6-1½ , 215-pound man, Darren McFadden can run away from just about anybody. What he hasn't developed is the ability to walk away.

Many NFL teams, including the Jets, will analyze that conundrum over the next four weeks as they prepare for the draft. Few will argue that McFadden is the most dynamic player on the board, but there are character concerns. Two years ago, he was involved in a vicious fight outside a nightclub that left his left big toe hideously dislocated, mangled so badly that it revealed the bone.

Sobbing uncontrollably in the ambulance, McFadden called friends and relatives on his cell phone to apologize and vow that he'd never do anything that reckless again. But he did. There was another nightclub altercation in his hometown of Little Rock, where he was handcuffed, but not arrested, for "provoking aggressive behavior," according to police.

The former Arkansas tailback has no criminal record, but his rowdy behavior, coupled with stories about illegitimate children and paternity suits, has prompted teams to dig into his background. They want to know: Superman or Pacman?

To answer that question, go back.

Go back to his neighborhood in Little Rock, one of the most gang-infested areas in the country. In 1994, HBO filmed a documentary, "Gang War: Banging in Little Rock." It was like a home movie for McFadden, who once shocked a junior-high teacher by pointing out people in the film that he recognized, some of whom were killed on the streets.

Go back to the house on South Schiller Street, where two of Mini Muhammad's 12 children belonged to enemy gangs. One of her sons was a Blood, another a Crip. She says there were no conflicts in the house, but it took the phrase "sibling rivalry" to a new level.

Go back to the master bedroom in the house on South Schiller. That is where Mini disappeared for hours at a time, behind a closed door, smoking crack. She used grocery money to get high, even stole money from her kids. One of her suppliers, she says, was her oldest son, currently serving five years in a federal prison on a drug conviction.

"I've been to hell and back, and I took my children into that hell and the chaos, too," Muhammad, 56, says in a phone interview, claiming she has been clean for six years. "But we all bonded together and took care of each other."

That Darren survived, even thrived in such a dysfunctional environment is a small miracle. Surrounded by gangs and death and drugs ("Drugs were a way of life for us," his mother says), McFadden stayed clean and kept running.

"I stuck to football and used it as my escape route," says McFadden, relaxing after a recent workout on the Arkansas campus.

Funny thing about McFadden's running style. For such a fast guy, he loves collisions. Off the field, too.

***

McFadden is big, fast, tough and productive - 4,590 rushing yards in three seasons at Arkansas, second only to Herschel Walker in SEC history. From all indications, he's a hard worker and well-liked by former teammates. According to a source, he scored a respectable 17 on his Wonderlic intelligence test. He answers, "Yes, sir" and "No, sir," and he has a quick, engaging smile. It'll be an upset if he's not among the top six picks. The Jets own the sixth pick.

Then again, in the NFL's Pacman Jones/Michael Vick era, teams are supposedly placing a greater emphasis on character, especially when multimillion-dollar investments are at stake. That has put McFadden under intense scrutiny.

"I'm not the type of guy who's going to go out every night and party," McFadden says. "I'm not going to put myself in the situations I did when I was younger. Those situations helped me mature a whole lot. It forces you to grow up a lot and realize you have a lot on the line."

He learned a hard lesson. The night of July 28, 2006, began innocently with a text message from then-coach Houston Nutt: "Get ready, football's around the corner."

McFadden replied: "I'm in the house." He didn't stay there. Several hours later, he was in an ambulance, heading for surgery.

He went to a notorious nightclub called The Palace, once the scene of a fatal shooting. In the parking lot, he confronted a man attempting to steal his brother's car, according to McFadden. A fight ensued. Somehow, he lost his shoe, smashed his toe and nearly shattered his dream.

"I think he realized, ‘Yeah, I am human and I am mortal, and I came close to really screwing this gig up' - and he's got a good gig going," says Arkansas head athletic trainer Dean Weber, who received a call at 4:45 a.m. from a hysterical McFadden.

Three months ago, it happened again, this time at a Little Rock nightspot called Ernie Biggs, which bills itself a piano bar. It, too, is a haven for police activity. A brawl escalated when "(the bouncer) jumped on my little brother," McFadden says. The bouncer told police he was attacked by several people, including McFadden, as he escorted the Razorback star's underage brother from the bar.

Along came the police, out came the handcuffs. That created big headlines in Arkansas, where McFadden might be the most popular person in the state, with apologies to former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.

McFadden claims he's not a violent person. He admits he put himself in "bad situations," but only because family members needed help. Muhammad says she taught her sons to stick up for one another, adding of the fights, "That's not (Darren). That boy is a mild, meek, gentle soul."

"He's not a street thug, he's not a bum," says one AFC scout, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "He knows right from wrong."

The scout's team has done extensive research on McFadden, concluding he's basically a good person whose transgressions can be traced to his difficult family situation. That could become a burden once he's a millionaire. Maturity and proper guidance, the team believes, could solve everything. If the Jets draft him, they'd be smart to put Curtis Martin's number on his speed dial. The retired Martin, who lives in the area, would be a good mentor.

McFadden's reputation also has been tainted by reports that he fathered children from different women. Addressing rampant speculation last month at the scouting combine, he said he has two kids on the way. But, in an interview 11 days ago with the Daily News, he said one paternity test came back negative. He said he will know by mid-April if the other belongs to him. McFadden, 20 and single, already has a lawyer to handle paternity issues.

His alleged womanizing has provided joke fodder - "McDaddy" has become a derisive nickname - but those closest to McFadden believe he's an inspiration, not a troublemaker. After all, it wasn't exactly a very Brady upbringing.

McFadden's mother was an admitted crack addict who didn't get clean until she spent 11 days in jail, arrested after multiple traffic violations. She told her kids not to pay the $1,000 bail because she figured prison would be her rehab center. Her body shook and sweated through the withdrawal, but she did it for her family, which was almost broke.

"It was tough on me. I mean, those things are around, but you don't expect it to be your mom," says McFadden, claiming he was inspired by his mother's turnaround.

Remarkably, McFadden was a happy kid in high school, entertaining classmates with an array of costumes. Belying his image as a tough guy, he occasionally wore a dress and a blonde wig to school. No joke.

"He liked to shake things up," says teacher Leecie Henson, one of the guiding lights in McFadden's life - his "white mama," as he calls her. "After a while, I told him, ‘If you wear one more dress to school, I'm going to call your coach at Arkansas and tell him his running-back recruit is a cross dresser.' But that was his goal in high school: Make people laugh."

He's the same way at Arkansas. For Halloween, he and fellow back Felix Jones, also projected as a first-round pick, dressed as Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

On the field, there's nothing fake or dainty about McFadden. Unlike many speed backs, he craves a good collision, often using his patented stiff-arm to embarrass would-be tacklers. His position coach, Tim Horton, says 32% of McFadden's rushing yards last season (586 of 1,830) came after initial contact.

"The most aggressive player I've ever coached," Horton says.

Some scouts believe McFadden initiates too much contact, that he stops moving his feet when he does. Some are concerned about his skinny legs, wondering if they can withstand the NFL. Unbeknownst to many, he's never been serious about building leg strength. After tearing a knee cartilage as a freshman, he was advised to take it easy on the weights.

But "Butter Boy," his old playground nickname, sure can churn. That 4.33 time in the 40? McFadden covered the last 20 yards in 1.80 seconds, prompting one hard-bitten scout to remark: "Oh, my God!"

"He's going to be a great back in this league," says Kevin Colbert, the Steelers' director of football operations. Hall of Famer Tony Dorsett says, "Darren McFadden is The Truth. He's legit."

"I want to go into the NFL and have an impact like Adrian Peterson," McFadden says matter-of-factly, referring to the Vikings' young star. "I feel like with my hard work and determination, I can do the same things."

Peterson rushed for 1,341 yards and was named the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. Can McFadden match that? As Horton ponders the question, he glances out his office window, which overlooks the Arkansas stadium. Amid the late-afternoon shadows, there's a fast-moving figure in the distance. Could it be?

Look, up in the sky. It's a bird! It's a plane!

Horton IDs the UFO: "It's Darren, running the stadium steps" - only a few hours after performing for NFL scouts at his pro day.

Maybe he is Superman.

[Tned]

I just posted the full article here (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12263), but this might give some perspective on how much positive character McFadden must have, to have made it out of the lovely city of Little Rock, not only alive, but with only a 'couple' incidents that are talked about:


The former Arkansas tailback has no criminal record, but his rowdy behavior, coupled with stories about illegitimate children and paternity suits, has prompted teams to dig into his background. They want to know: Superman or Pacman?

To answer that question, go back.

Go back to his neighborhood in Little Rock, one of the most gang-infested areas in the country. In 1994, HBO filmed a documentary, "Gang War: Banging in Little Rock." It was like a home movie for McFadden, who once shocked a junior-high teacher by pointing out people in the film that he recognized, some of whom were killed on the streets.

Go back to the house on South Schiller Street, where two of Mini Muhammad's 12 children belonged to enemy gangs. One of her sons was a Blood, another a Crip. She says there were no conflicts in the house, but it took the phrase "sibling rivalry" to a new level.

Go back to the master bedroom in the house on South Schiller. That is where Mini disappeared for hours at a time, behind a closed door, smoking crack. She used grocery money to get high, even stole money from her kids. One of her suppliers, she says, was her oldest son, currently serving five years in a federal prison on a drug conviction.

"I've been to hell and back, and I took my children into that hell and the chaos, too," Muhammad, 56, says in a phone interview, claiming she has been clean for six years. "But we all bonded together and took care of each other."

That Darren survived, even thrived in such a dysfunctional environment is a small miracle. Surrounded by gangs and death and drugs ("Drugs were a way of life for us," his mother says), McFadden stayed clean and kept running.

"I stuck to football and used it as my escape route," says McFadden, relaxing after a recent workout on the Arkansas campus.

Funny thing about McFadden's running style. For such a fast guy, he loves collisions. Off the field, too.

[Tned]

Here are some other snippets from that article (in case you don't read the whole thing), related to what scouts and coaches have said.

I'm not sure exactly how impressive running the last 20 yards of a 40 in 1.8 seconds is, but based on the scoutes reaction that they quoted, I guess it is quick.


McFadden is big, fast, tough and productive - 4,590 rushing yards in three seasons at Arkansas, second only to Herschel Walker in SEC history. From all indications, he's a hard worker and well-liked by former teammates. According to a source, he scored a respectable 17 on his Wonderlic intelligence test. He answers, "Yes, sir" and "No, sir," and he has a quick, engaging smile. It'll be an upset if he's not among the top six picks. The Jets own the sixth pick.

***

"He's not a street thug, he's not a bum," says one AFC scout, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "He knows right from wrong."

The scout's team has done extensive research on McFadden, concluding he's basically a good person whose transgressions can be traced to his difficult family situation.

***

On the field, there's nothing fake or dainty about McFadden. Unlike many speed backs, he craves a good collision, often using his patented stiff-arm to embarrass would-be tacklers. His position coach, Tim Horton, says 32% of McFadden's rushing yards last season (586 of 1,830) came after initial contact.

"The most aggressive player I've ever coached," Horton says.

Some scouts believe McFadden initiates too much contact, that he stops moving his feet when he does. Some are concerned about his skinny legs, wondering if they can withstand the NFL. Unbeknownst to many, he's never been serious about building leg strength. After tearing a knee cartilage as a freshman, he was advised to take it easy on the weights.

***

But "Butter Boy," his old playground nickname, sure can churn. That 4.33 time in the 40? McFadden covered the last 20 yards in 1.80 seconds, prompting one hard-bitten scout to remark: "Oh, my God!"

***

"He's going to be a great back in this league," says Kevin Colbert, the Steelers' director of football operations. Hall of Famer Tony Dorsett says, "Darren McFadden is The Truth. He's legit."

"I want to go into the NFL and have an impact like Adrian Peterson," McFadden says matter-of-factly, referring to the Vikings' young star. "I feel like with my hard work and determination, I can do the same things."

[Tned]

Ok, two videos some of you guys should find very interesting. First, is an interview with McFadden on NFL Network.

Second, is an extensive highlight real put together by someone at hogville.net. This video should put to rest much of the "he only runs outside, and collapses at first contact" speculation. At the 7:17 mark there is a perfect example of him plowing through guys to get into the endzone, a minute or two early, several similar examples, and early in the tape several as well.

You will see a lot of runs up the middle, both inside the 20 and in the open field and a lot of big runs or scores AFTER he breaks a tackle. This highlihgt real is the first one that comes close to giving you the feel you get when actually watching the Razorback games, vs. so many that only show a bunch of homerun highlights. Considering the amount of misinformation around about how he actually runs, this should help those that didn't get a chance to see the Hawg games the last couple years.

NFL Network Interview, where he addresses the 'character issues' among other things.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80718880

Extensive highlight real (a direct link at the bottom if you want to play it on youtube).

LJGTC-StZGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJGTC-StZGI

[WARHORSE]

Ok, two videos some of you guys should find very interesting. First, is an interview with McFadden on NFL Network.

Second, is an extensive highlight real put together by someone at hogville.net. This video should put to rest much of the "he only runs outside, and collapses at first contact" speculation. At the 7:17 mark there is a perfect example of him plowing through guys to get into the endzone, a minute or two early, several similar examples, and early in the tape several as well.

You will see a lot of runs up the middle, both inside the 20 and in the open field and a lot of big runs or scores AFTER he breaks a tackle. This highlihgt real is the first one that comes close to giving you the feel you get when actually watching the Razorback games, vs. so many that only show a bunch of homerun highlights. Considering the amount of misinformation around about how he actually runs, this should help those that didn't get a chance to see the Hawg games the last couple years.

NFL Network Interview, where he addresses the 'character issues' among other things.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80718880

Extensive highlight real (a direct link at the bottom if you want to play it on youtube).

LJGTC-StZGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJGTC-StZGI


Im not sold on his ability to break tackles, and am concerned on his lack of weight on his lower legs. He has the springs to jump over the Oline in goaline situations. Easily. Im wondering how he'll hold up to an NFL beating. And I would hope he would run with more lean before a horsecollar tackle ends his career.

But as far as his running, he almost makes it look too easy. It really is deceptive how his speed makes the second level defensive players take bad angles on him. By the time they figure out how fast hes going....too late. This is the same thing Dickersons running did to defenses. If the man can stay healthy, I really think he can be a force to be reckoned with here. Were he to come to Denver, which by the way is his favorite team, he would do wonders for the passing game, and vice versa.

Having a threat like him in the backfield demands a minimum of eight in the box, and that would probably not stop him in our system. We get him to the second tier, and he does the rest. His style of running is demoralizing to teams defenses.

If hes the real deal, Id love to see him in Denver, cause if hes the real deal, hes a once in a two decade kinda talent.

Thanks for the info.

[WARHORSE]

I just watched the NFL Network vid. I thought I had seen that one.

I dont like the fact that now hes sayin he was a Cowboy fan growing up, whereas earlier he said he was a broncos fan.

He said it pretty straight faced too............HHHMMMMMmmmmmmm.........:confused:

[Tned]

I just watched the NFL Network vid. I thought I had seen that one.

I dont like the fact that now hes sayin he was a Cowboy fan growing up, whereas earlier he said he was a broncos fan.

He said it pretty straight faced too............HHHMMMMMmmmmmmm.........:confused:


Yea, I was wondering about that when I read your above post saying he was a Broncos fan. I had always heard Cowboys fan, which also fits here, as he grew up in the Jerry Jones era, when most Arkies became Cowboys fans.

[Tned]

I just posted the full article here (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12263), but this might give some perspective on how much positive character McFadden must have, to have made it out of the lovely city of Little Rock, not only alive, but with only a 'couple' incidents that are talked about:

Sorry if the link doesn't work, a mod merged the thread in which I posted the full article into this one, so the link just points back to the beginning of this thread.

The full article is a few posts up in this thread. The article has a title of "After home life from hell, Darren McFadden racing to put past behind him"

[lex]

I just watched the NFL Network vid. I thought I had seen that one.

I dont like the fact that now hes sayin he was a Cowboy fan growing up, whereas earlier he said he was a broncos fan.

He said it pretty straight faced too............HHHMMMMMmmmmmmm.........:confused:


Yea, I was wondering about that when I read your above post saying he was a Broncos fan. I had always heard Cowboys fan, which also fits here, as he grew up in the Jerry Jones era, when most Arkies became Cowboys fans.

Yeah, McFadden mentioned the Broncos during the press conference at the combine. As a matter of fact Schefter followed up on that when interviewing him later and seemed like he might hook McFadden up with Terrell as McFadden specifically mentioned that he was a big fan of Terrell. He also said he like Eddie Mac.

But here's the thing to realize too. If McFadden says he likes Dallas, it puts pressure on Jerry Jones to move up to take him. Obviously being taken in the top 10 means more $ than being taken at 12.

[Dean]

They are even harder to do on a message board.:cool: