Does the thin air really give the Broncos an advantage?

[sneakers]

I have heard all my life that the thin air in Denver always gave the Broncos such a strong home field advantage. But I have never heard it mentioned in any other sport, like basketball. You would think if this was the case the Nuggets would have the best home court advantage in the NBA....so let me know, does the thin air give the Broncos an advantage?

[SR]

Scientifically, not really. From what I read, a football is too big for the thin air to really make that much of a difference. However, for baseballs and tennis balls, I hear its a different story.

[Simple Jaded]

Alfred Williams recently said on his radio show that it does, he played his first professional game ever with the Bengals in Mile High, he said he could feel it after leaving Colorado just ten days earlier......but then again, he also recently said that Denver should draft Matt Ryan if he falls to 12, so take it for what it's worth......

[DenBronx]

yeah i hear golfers think its a real bitch.

[shank]

email the mythbusters.

[Den21vsBal19]

I think the altitude has to be worth something, the only thing that is maybe a little suprising is that we don't do better away from Denver...........

The reasoning behind that is the number of atheletes, across all disciplines, that employ altitude training to improve their performances at sea level........

[threefolddead]

Haha totally... Thats why I get better gas mileage here because with lighter air my car therefore has less air to travel through and the result is better gas mileage. Wait till nascar comes! They'll only have to fuel up once the whole race! SARCASM Lighter air is totally BS and if there is any truth in it, its minuscule at best. The only area it gives them an advantage in is training. If your fit up here, you feel like superman when you go to lower altitudes.

[Skinny]

"When you go and play in Denver you can't breathe. So you have to understand that there is going to be some breathing issues. There's going to be some burning in your chest that you're going to have to deal with." - Jerome Bettis

[honz]

The only advantage it gives is that it is hard to run/play sports at high altitude when you aren't used to it.

[Bronco9798]

In reference to Soccer,,but still deals with altitude.

PARIS (AFP) - Statistics have now confirmed anecdote as fact: South American teams used to playing at high altitude have a major advantage over lowland opponents, according to a study published on Friday by the British Medical Journal (BMJ).

Oxford University researcher Patrick McSharry trawled through the scores of 1,460 international matches played at different altitudes in 10 countries in South America spanning more than a century.

The lowland countries were Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, all of whose national stadia are at height of 60 metres (195 feet) or less, followed by Peru (90 metres, 292 feet) and Chile, whose stadium is at 520 metres (1,690 feet).

The four highland nations were Venezuela (1,000 metres, 3,250 feet), Colombia (2,600 metres, 8450 feet), Ecuador (2,800 metres, 9100 feet) and Bolivia (3,700 metres. 12,025 feet).

Altitude difference had a major impact on performance, McSharry found.

Teams that were used to playing at altitude scored more and conceded fewer goals as the height progressively increased.

Each additional 1,000 metres (3,250 feet) increased the goal difference by half a goal.

McSharry found that in the case of two teams from the same altitude, the probability of the home side winning averages 53 percent.

But this rose to an astonishing 82 percent for an altitude difference of 3,695 metres (12,008 feet), such as when Bolivia played sea-level opponent Brazil.

But it fell to just 21 percent when the altitude difference was minus 3,695 metres (minus 12,000 feet), i.e. when Brazil played at home to Bolivia.

High altitude is known to cause lack of oxygen, cold and dehydration, leading to breathlessness, nausea, dizziness and fatigue, and strenuous sport such as football can make the symptoms worse.

Coaches can help their side by factoring in a player's individual susceptibility to altitude sickness when making their selection, says McSharry.

World football governing body FIFA on Saturday relaxed their previous ban on international matches at altitude to 2,750 metres (9,022 feet) "without acclimatisation" a move that still blows the final whistle for games at La Paz in Bolivia and in the Ecuadorean capital Quito.

In May, FIFA originally slapped an unconditional ban on matches at 2,500 metres (8,125 feet) or higher after its medical committee advised that playing at such a height was neither healthy nor fair.

It also cited home-field advantage of high-altitude teams over visiting teams from lower alti

[SmilinAssasSin27]

It's never bothered me...then again I've never had to play a game there. But, when I went to Denver, the walk from my hotel room to the vending machine felt pretty normal.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

In reference to Soccer,,but still deals with altitude.

PARIS (AFP) - Statistics have now confirmed anecdote as fact: South American teams used to playing at high altitude have a major advantage over lowland opponents, according to a study published on Friday by the British Medical Journal (BMJ).

Oxford University researcher Patrick McSharry trawled through the scores of 1,460 international matches played at different altitudes in 10 countries in South America spanning more than a century.

The lowland countries were Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, all of whose national stadia are at height of 60 metres (195 feet) or less, followed by Peru (90 metres, 292 feet) and Chile, whose stadium is at 520 metres (1,690 feet).

The four highland nations were Venezuela (1,000 metres, 3,250 feet), Colombia (2,600 metres, 8450 feet), Ecuador (2,800 metres, 9100 feet) and Bolivia (3,700 metres. 12,025 feet).

Altitude difference had a major impact on performance, McSharry found.

Teams that were used to playing at altitude scored more and conceded fewer goals as the height progressively increased.

Each additional 1,000 metres (3,250 feet) increased the goal difference by half a goal.

McSharry found that in the case of two teams from the same altitude, the probability of the home side winning averages 53 percent.

But this rose to an astonishing 82 percent for an altitude difference of 3,695 metres (12,008 feet), such as when Bolivia played sea-level opponent Brazil.

But it fell to just 21 percent when the altitude difference was minus 3,695 metres (minus 12,000 feet), i.e. when Brazil played at home to Bolivia.

High altitude is known to cause lack of oxygen, cold and dehydration, leading to breathlessness, nausea, dizziness and fatigue, and strenuous sport such as football can make the symptoms worse.

Coaches can help their side by factoring in a player's individual susceptibility to altitude sickness when making their selection, says McSharry.

World football governing body FIFA on Saturday relaxed their previous ban on international matches at altitude to 2,750 metres (9,022 feet) "without acclimatisation" a move that still blows the final whistle for games at La Paz in Bolivia and in the Ecuadorean capital Quito.

In May, FIFA originally slapped an unconditional ban on matches at 2,500 metres (8,125 feet) or higher after its medical committee advised that playing at such a height was neither healthy nor fair.

It also cited home-field advantage of high-altitude teams over visiting teams from lower alti

Excellent contribution dillweed. I'll remember that next time Denver plays in Argentina.

[Bronco9798]

Excellent contribution dillweed. I'll remember that next time Denver plays in Argentina.

Just something I found about altitude in general. Still using that 2002 computer? :D

[TimBuff10]

I took a class in college that focused on this. It isn't really the effect that the lack of air has on the ball, it's the effect that the lack of oxygen has on the person. If you grew up and lived all your life in the Denver area, or better yet, Leadville, you will be able to do expend more engergy with less oxygen than a sea-level person could.

There was actually a study done of people in some village in South America that was over 10,000' MSL. Since those people had ancestors that have been living at altitude and their village was there for many generations they actually had a much larger lung capacity over a normal human. Score one for evolution!

As far as having a home field advantage, If you start living at altitude before your 20s it should only take a few years for you to get close to the ability of a native, but after your mid 20s it takes many years to get your "altitude overcoming ability" up to the level of the natives. After you hit your 30s the study showed that it was pretty much impossible to get there. Basically, even scientists could tell the Broncos that signing older Free Agents just isn't a good idea. Bringing in young rookies and keeping them for a few years, now that is when you start to win the battle of altitude. Better yet, find a kid who grew up in Denver, and played college in the area.

As for the baseball Rockies, well, sorry but there just isn't that much physicalness involved in the recreation of baseball.

Nuggets, How many players do they have that came to Denver when they were young, and have stayed for several years? Carmello would be a good example but I am guessing the weed counters his aclimitazation.

Avs, should help them but do they stay in Denver all year? As soon as you go back to sea level for a few weeks/months and then come back you are probably starting over with getting used to it again.

Point is, the Altitude could be used but I don't think the local teams take advantage of it as much as they could have.

[Lonestar]

Yes it does, ask the truthful players the will say it makes a difference. Most of the aerobic Olympic sports used to train in Colorado springs not sure if they still do or not..

If you do not believe that it affects the opposition just look at the O2 masks hanging from the visitors bench's every week and how many are sucking wind in the 3rd and 4th quarters..

We do not do better when going to lower altitudes because of the pronounced heat and high humidity as will as jet lag. When we play earlier games on the east coast it is like playing at 11a, after sleeping in a strange bed...

[NameUsedBefore]

Of course it does. I think, given technology, it's getting less and less, though. I honestly don't see a difference in the throws or kicks in the air, though. Supposedly it's there, but I just never really see it. Supposedly it's a big deal for baseball, but (disclaimer: I don't really follow baseball that much) really I always figured it was because the Rockies' pitchers usually suck ass ;)

[TimBuff10]

We do not do better when going to lower altitudes because of the pronounced heat and high humidity as will as jet lag. When we play earlier games on the east coast it is like playing at 11a, after sleeping in a strange bed...

I guess last year's game in San Diego was a lock then, and winning in Jacksonville in 2005 was a fluke.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

We also won at Buffalo last year. We did lose to an awful Miami team in 2005 though.

I've always contended that Denver plays awful in domes.

[Bronco9798]

We also won at Buffalo last year. We did lose to an awful Miami team in 2005 though.

I've always contended that Denver plays awful in domes.

We can blame the humidity and heat on the Miami game in 2005. :D Everybody else did...

[SR]

When this was first posted, for some reason I thought he was talking about the thin air as it relates to kicking or throwing the ball. As far as conditioning goes, you bet your ass it makes a difference. I feel it every time I go to Denver.

[Lonestar]

I guess last year's game in San Diego was a lock then, and winning in Jacksonville in 2005 was a fluke.

look at the number of early east coast games den has lost over the past decade then you will realized how much a fluke they were..Especially the Florida games it was reported once that Mikey had never won a game in Florida prior to the JAX game that year...

San has never been a lock since they got LT. Now that marty is gone even less so..

[threefolddead]

YES we can blame losing games on weather. GENIOUS

[SR]

YES we can blame losing games on weather. GENIOUS

Nothing like someone who can't spell genius.

[MOtorboat]

Does the altitude help...yes, because other teams tire more quickly than the Broncos, who work out on a daily basis in the altitude. There's a reason that Colorado Springs hosts the Olympic Training Combine (or whatever it's called...).

[G_Money]

Anything over about 4500 feet can be a problem for specific individuals. People who've lived at sea level all their lives can get weird about it. Suddenly changing altitude can bring on headaches, vision problems, any number of things.

Serious high-altitude training I believe has to be 8000 feet or higher, but because there's still less oxygen here than there is at sea-level, you have more red blood cells than zero-altitude folks by living here. Less oxygen per cell = more cells needed to maintain optimum oxygen levels. That also REALLY kicks in above 8000 feet, but it's still present here.

One of the under-appreciated parts about being a high-desert (arid and high-altitude) climate is dehydration. When you go to visit someone at high altitude you HAVE to drink lots of water. Otherwise nausea and other symptoms kick in. IMO this is the actual advantage. They still have IVs on the sidelines to try to recover fluids for poorly hydrated athletes.

In the new era of high-altitude sleep tents and performance everything, the high-altitude advantage is less than it used to be.

And teams like Jacksonville or Chicago or Green Bay have their own home-field advantages based around the weather. Even a team like Indy has one, because they build their team to fit their indoor stadium.

As a cold-but-not-that cold, dry climate, we have to adjust when going to massive humidity because we don't train in it.

So high-altitude is an advantage, but it's far from the only one and part of its component is psychological.

If we had an offense that could keep the opposing D on the field for a long time again, though, you'd see the effect become more pronounced.

Recently however other teams (like Jacksonville) have been the ones keeping OUR defense on the field.

Here's hoping for a change this year.

~G

[Lonestar]

Anything over about 4500 feet can be a problem for specific individuals. People who've lived at sea level all their lives can get weird about it. Suddenly changing altitude can bring on headaches, vision problems, any number of things.

Serious high-altitude training I believe has to be 8000 feet or higher, but because there's still less oxygen here than there is at sea-level, you have more red blood cells than zero-altitude folks by living here. Less oxygen per cell = more cells needed to maintain optimum oxygen levels. That also REALLY kicks in above 8000 feet, but it's still present here.

One of the under-appreciated parts about being a high-desert (arid and high-altitude) climate is dehydration. When you go to visit someone at high altitude you HAVE to drink lots of water. Otherwise nausea and other symptoms kick in. IMO this is the actual advantage. They still have IVs on the sidelines to try to recover fluids for poorly hydrated athletes.

In the new era of high-altitude sleep tents and performance everything, the high-altitude advantage is less than it used to be.

And teams like Jacksonville or Chicago or Green Bay have their own home-field advantages based around the weather. Even a team like Indy has one, because they build their team to fit their indoor stadium.

As a cold-but-not-that cold, dry climate, we have to adjust when going to massive humidity because we don't train in it.

So high-altitude is an advantage, but it's far from the only one and part of its component is psychological.

If we had an offense that could keep the opposing D on the field for a long time again, though, you'd see the effect become more pronounced.

Recently however other teams (like Jacksonville) have been the ones keeping OUR defense on the field.

Here's hoping for a change this year.

~G


I think the altitude is one of the reasons mikey has went lean and mean on the LOS and why we have always had a heavy rotation on the DLINE.. Much like INDy has been tailored for an indoor turf and passing attack.

We have all seen what happens to the huge gutted DLine guys they are sucking wind after a few plays..

Truly one of the reasons we have seemed to have been in better condition late in the game..
Although that has meant little lately since th defense seems to be on the field forever being nickle and dimed to death.. 15-17 play drives.

[Slick]

When this was first posted, for some reason I thought he was talking about the thin air as it relates to kicking or throwing the ball. As far as conditioning goes, you bet your ass it makes a difference. I feel it every time I go to Denver.

Absolutely. Why do cyclists go train in Boulder? The Olympic Teams training facility is in Colorado Springs at the Air Force Academy. If you can perform well at altitude, it makes it that much easier at sea level too.

[Slick]

Does the altitude help...yes, because other teams tire more quickly than the Broncos, who work out on a daily basis in the altitude. There's a reason that Colorado Springs hosts the Olympic Training Combine (or whatever it's called...).

I responded to SR's post before I saw yours. My cousin was a sub for the women's water polo team. They all trained there too.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If Henry would put down the smoke pipe he might be even better in the mile high altitude.

[underrated29]

I think the altitude is one of the reasons mikey has went lean and mean on the LOS and why we have always had a heavy rotation on the DLINE.. Much like INDy has been tailored for an indoor turf and passing attack.

We have all seen what happens to the huge gutted DLine guys they are sucking wind after a few plays..

Truly one of the reasons we have seemed to have been in better condition late in the game..
Although that has meant little lately since th defense seems to be on the field forever being nickle and dimed to death.. 15-17 play drives.






HA! remember gilbert brown against the pack in the superbowl. He couldnt even get up hs was so winded...

No, they didnt. That wasnt here, that was in like san diego or something...

But a buddy of mine saw them play here and they got it on. woooweeeee.

No they didnt.

No, no they did not. But, you could imagine what it would be like right?

[HolyDiver]

I think Elam's 63 yarder would not have happened if it was kicked anywhere outside of Mile High.

[corona]

Colorado Springs has the Olympic Training Center and it's the headquarters for

Men's Basketball
Volleyball
Hockey
Wrestling
Swimming
Figure Skating

and there are 12 total sports the springs trains but I forget the others and im too lazy to find them

There actually thinking about moving the Team USA Basketball headquarters out of the springs but I don't think it will happen.

Here is a link
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=28309

[SR]

HA! remember gilbert brown against the pack in the superbowl. He couldnt even get up hs was so winded...

No, they didnt. That wasnt here, that was in like san diego or something...

But a buddy of mine saw them play here and they got it on. woooweeeee.

No they didnt.

No, no they did not. But, you could imagine what it would be like right?

WTF are you talking about?

[underrated29]

WTF are you talking about?



let me slow it down for you. :biggrin:

That veronika voughn is one fine piece of ace, i know from experience.
No you dont.
No, i dont, but a buddy of mine, he and her got it on, wooooweeeee.
NO they didnt.

NO, no they did not, but you could imagine what it would be like right.

everyone on board, great, grand, wonderful. NO yelling on the BUS!


that help you out some...I will back it up even further. I was going to talk about gilbert getting winded, but i made a mistake thinking that game was here when infact it was not. No, no it wasnt......................

[SR]

let me slow it down for you. :biggrin:

That veronika voughn is one fine piece of ace, i know from experience.
No you dont.
No, i dont, but a buddy of mine, he and her got it on, wooooweeeee.
NO they didnt.

NO, no they did not, but you could imagine what it would be like right.

everyone on board, great, grand, wonderful. NO yelling on the BUS!


that help you out some...I will back it up even further. I was going to talk about gilbert getting winded, but i made a mistake thinking that game was here when infact it was not. No, no it wasnt......................


Way to perfectly **** up a Billy Madison quote.

[underrated29]

So sorry to mess it UUPPP!

why dont you fix it then, spanish armada.

[SR]

So sorry to mess it UUPPP!

why dont you fix it then, spanish armada.

I'm talking about the way you tried to insert it in to the altitude arguement. Didn't work. At all.

[underrated29]

I'm talking about the way you tried to insert it in to the altitude arguement. Didn't work. At all.

No, no it did not.

But you could imagine what it would be like right?

[broncosfanscott]

I think there is an advantage because the fact that there is less air up there than at sea level plays a big part. I mean when playing a physical game like football, lack of oxygen may effect your fatigue. Then there is all the mind games it can play. The first time I was up in Denver to watch a Broncos game, I never really had any problems while I was up there, however I wasn't running around either. Even though a football is bigger than a baseball, it still has to be easier to kick or throw it farther than at lower altitudes.

[SR]

No, no it did not.

But you could imagine what it would be like right?

It would've been amazing.

[Npba900]

I think playing at Invesco Field is an advantage due to the altitude. However, playing at over 6K feet above sea level also has a mind game side affect.

For instance, in the early 80's when Elway got to Denver, his skills interms of having a howitzer arm and his knack for escapability to keep drives going in the 4th qtr, definitely gave Denver the advantage b/c teams found themselves out on the field when the altitude had already taken its affects both mentally and physically.

Elways ability to zip the ball across the grain of the field and complete those passes caused opposing teams to have to cover more ground in the 4th qtr when they were already drained physically. Also, Elway scrambling away out of for sure sacks and completing a sick 3rd down pass for a first down was just as debilitating to the opposing teams.

First you had Def. linemen trying to chase down a slippery Elway on 3rd down, only to see Elway throw a bullet pass to WR's for a first down, or Elway managed to run just enough for a first down and step out of bounds...stopping the clock, extending the game....thus making Defensive teams stay on the field longer when their already sucking wind. Now the entire D had to start all over again, while battling the altitude and a team that didn't appear tired b/c they were use to the altitude.

Then of course, when teams saw the sun setting b/c of how "Mile High Stadium" was built, this added another mind game aspect opposing teams had to deal with. Sure opposing teams could suck on oxygen bottles, but teams were already sucking oxygen bottles by the 2nd qtr. By the time the 4th qtr comes around, the opposing teams players bodies were already starting to break down mentally due to altitude fatigue, Denver had the advantage.

Denver's zone blocking schemes if utilized correctly with the right type of talent, could also use running the ball as a way to take advantage of the altitude to re-establish home field advantage. Denver could add power running backs like Stewart, and in concert with one of the hybrid bigger lead blocking Full backs at 250 plus, and run the ball to kill clock and wear out opposing defenses beginning in the 4th Qtr's.

Denver already has the QB and skilled Wr's to put up the points in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd qtrs. Now imagine if Denver could switch over to a grind it out zone blocking scheme to kill clock time and further wear out opposing teams b/c these teams are not only on the field longer, but Denver is protecting its leads b/c their killing clock time and not allowing teams to get the ball back to score.

[Brand]

Maybe altitude doesn't affect the athletic performance of players, but, if some of the Broncos are exhibits, it sure does mess up the mental maturation process.....

[Bronco9798]

"He really did nothing to lose his job," Horton said, "other than have a freak thing happen in Denver."

"Freak thing" doesn't begin to describe what happened in Denver, not more than a couple of days after Clark's wife, Yonka, joked to him, "Hey, why don't you come back with your spleen intact this time?"

When he previously had played in Denver while with the Washington Redskins, Clark had been diagnosed with a spleen contusion following the game.

Turns out he was misdiagnosed.

And, just like in 2005, the high altitude in Denver, coupled with the sickle-cell trait that Clark has, caused his blood to sickle during the Steelers' Oct. 21 game against the Broncos.

His blood vessels burst this time, Clark said, and the resulting loss of oxygen to his spleen killed parts of it.

"Once it died," Clark said, "bacteria said, 'Hey, that's a good place to go chill.'"

Clark felt well enough after the Steelers' 31-28 loss to the Broncos to call his wife, which always has been his post-game ritual.

But Yonka Clark later got a call from one of his teammates who said Clark had to be taken off the team bus and whisked away to a hospital because he had been experiencing such discomfort.