If I were in charge

[Fan in Exile]

This is what I would do if I were in charge.

I think the first point that should be made is that we aren’t planning to win the Super Bowl next year. Sure it could happen, but it’s not really reasonable to expect it. With that in mind I’ve been asking myself, “What should the Broncos do so that we can reasonably expect to be competitive as soon as possible?”

I think rebuilding starts in two places it starts at the QB position and on the line of scrimmage. I say QB because they are hard to find, so if you need one you better get started. We don’t so for us we’ve got to work on our lines.

O-line

Given the assumption that we aren’t going all the way this year we have to use this year to answer all sorts of questions about our O-line. The first is whether or not Harris can be the stud LT that we need. Let him and Pears battle it out if one of them wins then we know. We can do this because we have Graham in their to help block and protect Cutler. Hopefully one will succeed if not we will answer our other areas of need this year so that in next years draft we can get someone.

I would draft two RT one early that we expect to be a stud on the line and nail down the position. One later who may also be able to move inside to guard. That way we get a little more depth and insurance if the RT doesn’t pan out or one of our guards goes down.

With Hamilton, Kuper, Holland, Nalen and possibly Wiegmann we should be good for the middle of the line. This year we can see if Hamilton really will be a long term answer. It would also be nice to still pick up a C/G guy in the later rounds of this draft, if we have a pick for it.

D-line

I think right now we let the DEs develop. We’ve got Ekuban coming back for some veteran leadership we’ve got young guys in Moss, Crowder, and DOOM let’s see what they’ve got.

At DT we need some help I’m pretty high on Thomas and want to see what he can do on the field earning a starting spot this year but other than him I think we need help. We should bring in a vet who can upgrade the other spot, although I see this as more of a rental then a building block. Draft one maybe two guys this year. If we only get one this year then we have to get one next year as well. The nice thing about this is that we should go after a run stopper. A bigger guy who can hold up two people but we don’t really expect to get to the QB. These guys come cheaper and are slightly easier to find than big guys who can hold up two people and still get to the QB. I think we have to expect that our LB’s and the other’s on the D-line will take up the slack on the pass rushing duties. We could never afford to keep four pass rushing studs on the D-line anyway.

Linebacker

I think with the moves we’ve made there we spend this year seeing what we’ve got. Don’t draft anyone, no more free agents. Let everyone win a spot and if/when we still have a whole draft someone next year. No I don’t think this crop is going to be the second coming of the Orange Crush, but I do think we need to find out exactly what we’ve got.

Safeties

I think we should draft one here probably a strong safety. Lynch has one more year and McCree iirc only got a one year deal. Let Manuel and Abdulah fight it out this year, and if no one wins which I kind of expect draft one from a stronger crop next year.

Cornerbacks

I think we are set at this position.

Running back

Since we reworked Henry and we have Young, Hall, and Bell, I don’t think we need to do anything here.

What I would like to see is a great Fullback drafted so that when we are ready to compete we’ve got a bruiser to lead the way.

Tight End is set

Wide Reciever

I think we have to bring in a speed guy here. Someone who can compete for the number two spot and help in the return game. I think we need one more good body here that we can throw into the mix and see what comes out.

K/P

I think it’s time to part ways with Elam. We need the roster spots this year and can’t carry three kickers. We should draft a good one give him time to learn so that he can be seasoned when we are ready to compete. We should bring in a bunch of punters and let them compete with Paulescue.

So tell me what you think. I mostly did this because I'm really bored and ready for the draft to be here.

[LRtagger]

i think drafting two RT and no LB is kind of crazy. I think we need to draft a MLB because I dont think we have that solidified just yet with Niko.

I also think we need to draft a day 1 back. With the injury bug we saw last year and the fact that I think this is Henry's last year with us, we need a back. Neither Young nor Hall can carry the load if Henry is out. I want a feature back and no one on our current roster is that.

If we dont draft a day 1 back, I want us to pick up a WR on day one. LT and WR/RB on day one.

I would really love for us to trade back and pick up a LT, WR, AND RB on day one, but that is just wishful thinking.

I think we do need a safety in the draft and probably a corner as well. If we dish out Fox and pick up a day 2 pick, we should probably draft a young corner for depth.

Obviously we need a DT either in the draft of FA. I would like to pick up a FA (Robertson), but the jury is out on that.

Obviously we also need a Punter and probably a kicker, but these are late round concerns.

Fact is, we have a lot of needs right now. Its just a matter of what players are available on the board. Hopefully that means we will get the best player on the board that can hlp us out the most for each of our draft spots.

I am excited about this years draft!

[Fan in Exile]

i think drafting two RT and no LB is kind of crazy. I think we need to draft a MLB because I dont think we have that solidified just yet with Niko.

I also think we need to draft a day 1 back. With the injury bug we saw last year and the fact that I think this is Henry's last year with us, we need a back. Neither Young nor Hall can carry the load if Henry is out. I want a feature back and no one on our current roster is that.

If we dont draft a day 1 back, I want us to pick up a WR on day one. LT and WR/RB on day one.

I would really love for us to trade back and pick up a LT, WR, AND RB on day one, but that is just wishful thinking.

I think we do need a safety in the draft and probably a corner as well. If we dish out Fox and pick up a day 2 pick, we should probably draft a young corner for depth.

Obviously we need a DT either in the draft of FA. I would like to pick up a FA (Robertson), but the jury is out on that.

Obviously we also need a Punter and probably a kicker, but these are late round concerns.

Fact is, we have a lot of needs right now. Its just a matter of what players are available on the board. Hopefully that means we will get the best player on the board that can hlp us out the most for each of our draft spots.

I am excited about this years draft!

Really I find it hard to believe that you understand what's going on with the team, but since so many people high fived you maybe I'm the one with issues.

As far as RT goes we have on our team two guys who struggle on the right side of the line. How is it crazy to try to fix that gapping hole?

To me it's crazy to add a third guy who struggles on the right side.

I admit we could probably use a MIKE and if we pick one up in the draft I wouldn't be too opposed to that. However look at the Linebackers that we already have on our team, we already have plenty to be starters and plenty to be backups. I would think given all of the guys we already had and the ones that they brought in we aren't getting one this year. As much as I know people around here want a guy, my bold prediction is it won't happen this year. We can check back after the draft to see if I was right or wrong.

I don't think it's solidified yet either, but I think that is something that they will ask a player that we already have to step up and do next year. If that doesn't happen then we will draft one.

I can't see anyway that we draft a back this year. Sure there are injury concerns but we have great depth already. You don't keep Henry if you are going to draft a RB day one.

It's amazing to me how many people are nervous about the injury bug at one position and ignore it at another. You want more running backs because of injury when we have four on the roster. Yet you don't want two right tackles when we don't have any, it makes no sense to me.

I am glad that you agree about drafting a WR I would specify and this is no great deductive leap that he will be a guy who can help stretch the field.

You are right when it comes to whoever is available when we pick and for that reason we may go for someone great who drops but apart from that I can't see us targeting RB or LT.

I don't see anyway that we deal Foxworth, there's a reason he was taken off of the table with the Jets. Unless we lose someone between now and the draft we won't get a CB either. We may pick up a return guy but we won't really be expecting him to play CB.

When it comes to DT even if we get one in free agency, I still think we should draft one. They get expensive quick and we need to be able to replace them. Also the more quality depth you have the better you can rotate and keep the pressure on the entire game.

[LRtagger]

Really I find it hard to believe that you understand what's going on with the team, but since so many people high fived you maybe I'm the one with issues.



Such hostility...perhaps because I did not include you in my sig? :laugh: Sorry, but theres a 500 character limit, otherwise I would have included everyone on the site :rolleyes:


As far as RT goes we have on our team two guys who struggle on the right side of the line. How is it crazy to try to fix that gapping hole?

To me it's crazy to add a third guy who struggles on the right side.

I admit we could probably use a MIKE and if we pick one up in the draft I wouldn't be too opposed to that. However look at the Linebackers that we already have on our team, we already have plenty to be starters and plenty to be backups. I would think given all of the guys we already had and the ones that they brought in we aren't getting one this year. As much as I know people around here want a guy, my bold prediction is it won't happen this year. We can check back after the draft to see if I was right or wrong.

I don't think it's solidified yet either, but I think that is something that they will ask a player that we already have to step up and do next year. If that doesn't happen then we will draft one.

I can't see anyway that we draft a back this year. Sure there are injury concerns but we have great depth already. You don't keep Henry if you are going to draft a RB day one.

It's amazing to me how many people are nervous about the injury bug at one position and ignore it at another. You want more running backs because of injury when we have four on the roster. Yet you don't want two right tackles when we don't have any, it makes no sense to me.

I am glad that you agree about drafting a WR I would specify and this is no great deductive leap that he will be a guy who can help stretch the field.

You are right when it comes to whoever is available when we pick and for that reason we may go for someone great who drops but apart from that I can't see us targeting RB or LT.

I don't see anyway that we deal Foxworth, there's a reason he was taken off of the table with the Jets. Unless we lose someone between now and the draft we won't get a CB either. We may pick up a return guy but we won't really be expecting him to play CB.

When it comes to DT even if we get one in free agency, I still think we should draft one. They get expensive quick and we need to be able to replace them. Also the more quality depth you have the better you can rotate and keep the pressure on the entire game.

the only reason we kept Henry is because because he took a $6mil paycut. Is he a feature back? Maybe, but I dont want to settle on it. We all saw what a disaster he was last season. What happens when he smokes the dope again and we are left with two kids who cant carry the ball more than 10-15 times a game? Maybe it is written in Henry's contract that we can add his 9 kids to our roster if he goes down. Then we REALLY dont have a need for a back. We will have 9 kids to carry the rock. So thats like, what 3 carries a game for each of them? I bet they can handle it.

Maybe I am crazy, but I want a feature back. I look back on the days of TD and CP and wish I had confidence in a back now like I did then...unfortunately I dont. I would take one golden nugget any day over 4 polished turds. I personally like Selvin a lot, but all he is is a change of pace/"give me a breather" back. Bell had 6 carries for 3 yards last year and has transitioned into a FB and I dont like Hall much to be honest, even as a kick returner. If anything, Mike will pick up a back in the later rounds like he does every year, but I would really prefer us draft one on the first day.

I'm not sure why you think LT isnt a need. In case you missed it, Matt Lepsis (LEFT TACKLE) retired this offseason. And Harris who is listed next on our LT depth chart is also listed on our depth chart at RT. I would say we need to fill both spots, LT being the priority. But you are right about Pears and Harris being weak. I dont see a need to draft two RT's as a priority and simply settle for a guy protecting Jay's blind side. I won't feel comfortable with Pears or Harris on Jays blind side, but maybe I am not seeing their talent??

Picking up a CB will be a decision that is made in the upcoming weeks before the draft. Obviously if we deal Foxworth, we will need a replacement...if not, then we wont.

As far as LB goes, we have plenty of guys on the roster to be starters? Hell, I'm not even convinced the guys we picked up as FA can start just yet. Boss struggled in Detroit, but I am hopeful he will suceed here at SAM. Niko didnt start in Seattle and is dubbed a "ST specialist". Who knows if he can even produce for us at MIKE. Webster and Winborn are good backups, but not elite starters. We need to move DJ to WILL and get some depth at MIKE. Do you want Beck and Niko fighting it out for the starting position and maybe have to move DJ back to MIKE in the middle of the season? Because I sure dont.

We do need a punter because Ernster sucks and if we let Elam go we will need a kicker too, obviously.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think we should trade away whatever we need to in order to stockpile 2nd round pix in 2011. Nobody will see it coming. A guy here...a guy there...A pick here...you get the picture. Someone wants a 4th from us...we want a #2 in 2011. Someone wants Foxxy...we want a #2 in 2011...and so on. It is human nature to focus more on the present than to plan for the long term future. Asking for pix up to 3 years away won't phase anyone. What fan is gonna bitch that their team gave away a #2 3 years from now in order to get a guy the team wants? Nobody. Do it Shanny. Time is now to stockpile pix for the 2011 draft.

[Fan in Exile]

Such hostility...perhaps because I did not include you in my sig? :laugh: Sorry, but theres a 500 character limit, otherwise I would have included everyone on the site :rolleyes:

Really there wasn't meant to be any hostility in what I said, I'm just amazed by your willingness to draft guys in spots that we have and not in spots that we don't have. Truthfully I also didn't really notice that it was your sig, I just figured everyone thought you were right.:doh:


the only reason we kept Henry is because because he took a $6mil paycut. Is he a feature back? Maybe, but I dont want to settle on it. We all saw what a disaster he was last season. What happens when he smokes the dope again and we are left with two kids who cant carry the ball more than 10-15 times a game? Maybe it is written in Henry's contract that we can add his 9 kids to our roster if he goes down. Then we REALLY dont have a need for a back. We will have 9 kids to carry the rock. So thats like, what 3 carries a game for each of them? I bet they can handle it.

I'm pretty sure that we kept Henry because we want him to run the ball as well. Sure he is an injury and a drug risk but that's why we have the three other guys behind him.


Maybe I am crazy, but I want a feature back. I look back on the days of TD and CP and wish I had confidence in a back now like I did then...unfortunately I dont. I would take one golden nugget any day over 4 polished turds. I personally like Selvin a lot, but all he is is a change of pace/"give me a breather" back. Bell had 6 carries for 3 yards last year and has transitioned into a FB and I dont like Hall much to be honest, even as a kick returner. If anything, Mike will pick up a back in the later rounds like he does every year, but I would really prefer us draft one on the first day.

I want a feature back as well. That's what they expect Henry to be, and they aren't going to pay two guys to do that job. We could get a guy in the later rounds but I wouldn't think that they would be much different than a one of the guys we already have on our roster, and they wouldn't know the system as well.


I'm not sure why you think LT isnt a need. In case you missed it, Matt Lepsis (LEFT TACKLE) retired this offseason. And Harris who is listed next on our LT depth chart is also listed on our depth chart at RT. I would say we need to fill both spots, LT being the priority. But you are right about Pears and Harris being weak. I dont see a need to draft two RT's as a priority and simply settle for a guy protecting Jay's blind side. I won't feel comfortable with Pears or Harris on Jays blind side, but maybe I am not seeing their talent??

I did notice that Lepsis retired. Keep in mind what I'm saying, LT isn't anywhere near as big a need as RT, because we have two guys who struggle on the right side. I know that Harris was listed as the backup on both sides but he's more a speed player suited for the speed rushers on the left side. The same is true with Pears. They could in theory play the right side but it's a bad theory. I got so sick of watching Pears on the right this year. I'm not really comfortable with them on the left either but we have to find out what we've got. Really Harris will probably be anywhere from ok to great. We saw Pears on the left side two years ago and he was ok. So worst case scenerio we have an ok left tackle this year as we nail down the right side of the line, and get a stud next year.


Picking up a CB will be a decision that is made in the upcoming weeks before the draft. Obviously if we deal Foxworth, we will need a replacement...if not, then we wont.

I think it says a lot that they took him off the table with the Jets, I don't see him being dealt.


As far as LB goes, we have plenty of guys on the roster to be starters? Hell, I'm not even convinced the guys we picked up as FA can start just yet. Boss struggled in Detroit, but I am hopeful he will suceed here at SAM. Niko didnt start in Seattle and is dubbed a "ST specialist". Who knows if he can even produce for us at MIKE. Webster and Winborn are good backups, but not elite starters. We need to move DJ to WILL and get some depth at MIKE. Do you want Beck and Niko fighting it out for the starting position and maybe have to move DJ back to MIKE in the middle of the season? Because I sure dont.

Boss didn't struggle in Detroit, he just wasn't as outstanding as everyone wanted him to be. He'll be a good SAM for us.

Niko was brought in to start at MIKE, he's going to get a chance to do that. Yes I do want to see Niko and Beck fight it out for the MIKE spot. Anything other than that is a waste of a draft spot, roster spot, signing bonus, and possibly all three.

Linebacker is one of the easier spots to transition to in the NFL so if it doesn't work this year we can work one in next year.


We do need a punter because Ernster sucks and if we let Elam go we will need a kicker too, obviously.

This makes me wonder again if you are really following the team. Ernster isn't on our roster, Paulescu is the punter. He did pretty well in the one game so let's see how he does. But we should bring in some guys to compete with him.

[Fan in Exile]

I think we should trade away whatever we need to in order to stockpile 2nd round pix in 2011. Nobody will see it coming. A guy here...a guy there...A pick here...you get the picture. Someone wants a 4th from us...we want a #2 in 2011. Someone wants Foxxy...we want a #2 in 2011...and so on. It is human nature to focus more on the present than to plan for the long term future. Asking for pix up to 3 years away won't phase anyone. What fan is gonna bitch that their team gave away a #2 3 years from now in order to get a guy the team wants? Nobody. Do it Shanny. Time is now to stockpile pix for the 2011 draft.

Don't worry I understand that you're just lashing out because you don't understand marginal value and opportunity costs.

[underrated29]

OUR BIGGEST needs are the lines. o and d.

We need a DT, and IMO a rt/lt- only 1, and which position idont care.

Harris was said to be 1st rd talent, and we havent even seen him play- all the coaches do is praise the guy. I am sure he and pears will battle out LT and loser goes to RT. Of course whoever we draft LT or RT will also battle it out.

DT we need and nothing needs to be said about it.

Henry is a stud back and with a little OLINE ahead of him, and maybe a little luck he will be a top 5 runner this year. I still want stewart with #1, but i dont see it.

Wr will be taken in rd 2, and we also need a KR.
CB i dont see as a pressing issue, champ,dre,pay is pretty solid 3 even if foxworth is gone, we got a couple on roster (backups).
Saftey is not a need until next year.

I think shanny will draft
LT/RT,wr,DT,DT,CB,RB,LB,P/K

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The writing is on the wall...or OTs will be Kuper and Harris in 2008. We just signed Weigman, have Holland and Hamilton, etc.

[LRtagger]

This makes me wonder again if you are really following the team. Ernster isn't on our roster, Paulescu is the punter. He did pretty well in the one game so let's see how he does. But we should bring in some guys to compete with him.

So I missed that Ernster is no longer our punter, while you missed that Lepsis (an all time great) retired and I'm the one not following the team? :confused:

denverbroncos.com shows Ernster on our roster which is why I named him.

Unfortunately I didnt get to see the Minnesota game, so I didnt realize we traded a bad punter for an OK punter. Forgive me. Punter is still a late round need, regardless.


We have two guys behind Henry. Bell is our second FB (like I said, he had 6 carries for 3 yards last year, and one of those 6 carries was a LOST FUMBLE which could have been the difference in that pivotal Chicago game). Young is good, but fragile and Hall is average at best. You admit Henry is a risk. I guess that means you feel comfortable with Young and Hall carrying the load behind a weak offensive line? Because I dont. Good luck scoring red zone TD's with Young and Hall running the ball.

Hopefully I am wrong and Henry will turn it around, but I see no indication that would make me believe that. Do you think Henry would be on the roster is he didnt restructure? No, he wouldnt...doesn't sound like a feature back to me.

I thought Foxworth was still on the table for Robertson (had he not failed his physical). Seeing as how Fox is a FA next year, it wouldnt be a bad idea to look to trade him because he can probably start for a lot of other NFL teams. Like I said, obviously if he is on the roster, CB wont be a huge need in this years draft.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but with such a great running back class and a huge question mark beside our "feature" back, I see no reason not to take a chance on one in the draft. After a year on our roster to learn the system, he could be a major stud for the next 5-6 seasons and we could cut ties with Henry. Maybe I am just talking out of my ass because I hate Henry, though. We have such a great, young offense...building our running game around Henry is a mistake IMO.

I would be OK if we didnt draft a LB, but with all the day 2 picks we have, I dont see a reason not to draft one.

Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't follow and love this team. There are several other people that would like for us to draft a day one back. It is just a matter of opinion.

[Fan in Exile]

So I missed that Ernster is no longer our punter, while you missed that Lepsis (an all time great) retired and I'm the one not following the team? :confused:

denverbroncos.com shows Ernster on our roster which is why I named him.

Unfortunately I didnt get to see the Minnesota game, so I didnt realize we traded a bad punter for an OK punter. Forgive me. Punter is still a late round need, regardless.


We have two guys behind Henry. Bell is our second FB (like I said, he had 6 carries for 3 yards last year, and one of those 6 carries was a LOST FUMBLE which could have been the difference in that pivotal Chicago game). Young is good, but fragile and Hall is average at best. You admit Henry is a risk. I guess that means you feel comfortable with Young and Hall carrying the load behind a weak offensive line? Because I dont. Good luck scoring red zone TD's with Young and Hall running the ball.

Hopefully I am wrong and Henry will turn it around, but I see no indication that would make me believe that. Do you think Henry would be on the roster is he didnt restructure? No, he wouldnt...doesn't sound like a feature back to me.

I thought Foxworth was still on the table for Robertson (had he not failed his physical). Seeing as how Fox is a FA next year, it wouldnt be a bad idea to look to trade him because he can probably start for a lot of other NFL teams. Like I said, obviously if he is on the roster, CB wont be a huge need in this years draft.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but with such a great running back class and a huge question mark beside our "feature" back, I see no reason not to take a chance on one in the draft. After a year on our roster to learn the system, he could be a major stud for the next 5-6 seasons and we could cut ties with Henry. Maybe I am just talking out of my ass because I hate Henry, though. We have such a great, young offense...building our running game around Henry is a mistake IMO.

I would be OK if we didnt draft a LB, but with all the day 2 picks we have, I dont see a reason not to draft one.

Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't follow and love this team. There are several other people that would like for us to draft a day one back. It is just a matter of opinion.

It's not that you disagree with me, it's that you keep arguing for spots that are already filled.

I know that Lepsis retired I also know that we drafted a guy last year to replace him, that's following the team.

No Henry wouldn't be on the team if he didn't restructure, but he did.

It wouldn't be the first time that we took a FB and put them back at RB. Really I don't think we are going to agree on the RB issue.

I'm not comfortable with young and hall behind a weak offensive line, which is why I think we have to do something about the right side. With Graham on the left it will be okay, but the right side is a huge gapping hole that has to be fixed. They may really be looking to move Kuper over there but even with that we should get one more guy who can man the right.

I've already listed the reasons not to draft a LB but if those don't convince you there isn't much else I can do.

The thing with Ernster is that he isn't on the roster he's on the depth chart. The depth chart isn't updated as well as the roster especially in the off season. FYI

[WARHORSE]

This is what I would do if I were in charge.

I think the first point that should be made is that we aren’t planning to win the Super Bowl next year.

............................

So tell me what you think.


I think I disagree.:coffee:























;)

[Lonestar]

After reading only Fan post I'm going to add my thoughts if they step on someone else sorry we must think alike..

I agree pretty much the same as you..

I do however think that since a strong safety is easier to come by since for the most part in Denver's defense plays in the BOX 80% of the time..

I'd rather have a stud a Free (cover) safety first. I think we need to get another semi stud LB in the draft for if no other reason ST and back up..

If all three of these kids turn out OK or better we should have a good trio again with no depth..

DT is IMO the key to this defense something we have NEVER had since the old 3-4 days of Orange crush days.. Even during the Super bowl years we did not have any real studs there.. Frankly times have changed and there is more emphasis on DT than there ever has been. An area the mikey/ted has neglected for almost a decade now..

OT needs studs more so at OLT than ORT while keeping Graham in to block should be a option not an Necessity like it has been the past two years.

Pears is a natural LT the position he was used to playing, although I'm not quite sold on him long term, but remember he has just played a little more than one year.. and most of that was out of position at RT.

Nalen needs a stud replacement SOON if not this year he age has limitations, Hamilton has a concussion problem and is one hit away from retirement..

We win or LOSE on the LOS.

We also need to find a FG/KO in the draft and maybe even a Punter..

Last but not least we need a STUD General Manager..

[Fan in Exile]

I have to say that the more I've thought about it and talked with you guys here the less I'm sure what we are going to pick.

I think I even agree with Boss. Looking at everything we've done we may be planning on winning the Super Bowl next year.

With all the guys we've brought in I wouldn't even be surprised to see us move up in the draft and grab a DT.

[Simple Jaded]

Draft Clady/Williams and let Harris and Pears duke it out to see who gets replaced as starting RT next year......

[WARHORSE]

We trade down a pick or two in the first, pick up another fourth, then get Mendenhall.

Then we use next years first to get Jokelands 2nd rounder away from Atlanta. We take DT and OT in the second round.


Then we use two of our fourths to get back into the third round, a LBer or a Safety. Then our latter picks we spend on LB, WR, S and more DT.

[fcspikeit]

After reading only Fan post I'm going to add my thoughts if they step on someone else sorry we must think alike..

I agree pretty much the same as you..

I do however think that since a strong safety is easier to come by since for the most part in Denver's defense plays in the BOX 80% of the time..

I'd rather have a stud a Free (cover) safety first. I think we need to get another semi stud LB in the draft for if no other reason ST and back up..

If all three of these kids turn out OK or better we should have a good trio again with no depth..

DT is IMO the key to this defense something we have NEVER had since the old 3-4 days of Orange crush days.. Even during the Super bowl years we did not have any real studs there.. Frankly times have changed and there is more emphasis on DT than there ever has been. An area the mikey/ted has neglected for almost a decade now..

OT needs studs more so at OLT than ORT while keeping Graham in to block should be a option not an Necessity like it has been the past two years.

Pears is a natural LT the position he was used to playing, although I'm not quite sold on him long term, but remember he has just played a little more than one year.. and most of that was out of position at RT.

Nalen needs a stud replacement SOON if not this year he age has limitations, Hamilton has a concussion problem and is one hit away from retirement..

We win or LOSE on the LOS.

We also need to find a FG/KO in the draft and maybe even a Punter..

Last but not least we need a STUD General Manager..


I read the first couple post's then skimmed through the rest. :D Its funny how short post seem to have more impact... Maybe because they actualy get read? :lol:

Also, spacing is a good thing!!! it's amazing how hard it is to read lines when they are all lumped together on the computer. It takes 3 times as long to read when you keep starting the same line over :laugh:


If Niko & Boss pan out as our starters, I think we have pretty good depth at LB except at Mike. If the new guys don't pan out, we still need starters at Sam & Mike. We really don't know how well they will do until next year. But the same applies if we drafted a rookie... I would like to see us grab a Mike for depth if nothing else


A couple things I wanted to point out. Your best OT plays at LT. If you can get a good LT you take him! Those who can't play LT are moved to RT. LT's have to protect the QB's blind side. If you draft an OT and he is better then your starting LT you put him at LT and move that guy to RT. The bottom line here is that you take the best OT.. Then your best guy starts at LT and the next starts at RT.. (That really wasn't addressed at you JR but something I seen while skimming through)


I agree we also should get a S on day 2.. Either Free or Strong. Mcree said he was brought here to play with John. Therefore he will be our FS next year. That means we will have 2 new S on the field next year, unless we resign Mcree (Assuming Lynch hangs it up)..

IMO, our biggest needs are, DT, OT, What position we pick in the 1st should be the BPA at one of those 2 positions. Then, which ever we don't pick in the 1st should be addressed in the 2nd.

After that we should look to take, WR, LB, S, RB, C. If Elam leaves we also will need a kicker..


I also wanted to comment on something else. :D

DT's and OT's normaly take at least 1 year of sitting on the bench before they can start. If we only address one position this year and the other, next year, we will be looking at 3 years from now before we can plan on competing again. I say address both DT and OT in the draft this year...


*Edit* Figuring we don't need a good LT because we have Graham is ridiculous! If we are OK with never having 4 receivers on the field we could just put an OT in there at the TE position instead of Graham.

I mean come on! if you have to have 6 on the line to pass protect on every pass play, we will never have more then 3 receiving options. Unless we went with 4 wide and an empty backfield.. That would sure keep the defense guessing...:rolleyes: I wonder why more teams haven't thought of that? :confused:

[LRtagger]

oh, what do you know...lt and mlb IS something we need to address in the draft

[Fan in Exile]

I suppose the worst thing about writing this was how many people don't seem to bother to understand what I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying that we don't need a LT, I am saying that we should see if Harris is that LT before we draft another one. Having Graham gives us the luxury of finding that out, not because it's the best situation in the world but because he can keep things from falling apart.

Keep in mind this was also based on the assumption that taking a realistic look at things we aren't going to try to win it all next year. An assumption I'm no longer willing to make.

The other thing that I think people ought to seriously examine is the assumption that whoever fails at LT can just be moved to the right side. I think that may have been true once but I don't think it is anymore isn't.

Left Tackles have to deal with speed rushers right tackles have to deal with power ends who bull rush. Just as the two defensive end spots have divided in the type of player they take the two offensive tackle spots need to divide as well.

Take Pears for example on the left side he was tolerable, on the right he was a disaster. We couldn't get a running game going on the right because he couldn't deal with the power ends.

We have to fix the right side, and I don't believe it can be done with some failed finesse blocker.

I still wouldn't expect us to take a LT or MLB in the draft, but who knows stranger things have happened. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be a priority, but only something done because the are the BPA, and we do have nine draft picks anyway.

[fcspikeit]

I suppose the worst thing about writing this was how many people don't seem to bother to understand what I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying that we don't need a LT, I am saying that we should see if Harris is that LT before we draft another one. Having Graham gives us the luxury of finding that out, not because it's the best situation in the world but because he can keep things from falling apart.

Keep in mind this was also based on the assumption that taking a realistic look at things we aren't going to try to win it all next year. An assumption I'm no longer willing to make.

The other thing that I think people ought to seriously examine is the assumption that whoever fails at LT can just be moved to the right side. I think that may have been true once but I don't think it is anymore isn't.

Left Tackles have to deal with speed rushers right tackles have to deal with power ends who bull rush. Just as the two defensive end spots have divided in the type of player they take the two offensive tackle spots need to divide as well.

Take Pears for example on the left side he was tolerable, on the right he was a disaster. We couldn't get a running game going on the right because he couldn't deal with the power ends.

We have to fix the right side, and I don't believe it can be done with some failed finesse blocker.

I still wouldn't expect us to take a LT or MLB in the draft, but who knows stranger things have happened. I certainly wouldn't expect them to be a priority, but only something done because the are the BPA, and we do have nine draft picks anyway.

I didn't say whoever fails at LT can be moved to RT.. Some guys can't play either side.. But the truth is, your best tackle plays on the QB's blind side.. If Cutler was a lefty that would be the RT. He isn't so the most important OT on our team in passing plays is LT.

You do understand that they get moved around right? Normally if a rookie starts he will start at RT. Then if he proves he is the best tackle on the team, he will get moved to the left side. Even Jake Long who played LT in collage is expected to play RT first...

On passing situations, teams move their best pass rusher around. They don't play one position the entire game. If they did then your point about power and speed rushers would hold some weight..

Remember the Texans game? Williams played at both ends. They move them around to get the best match up, an offense can't game plan for a guy if he is never in the same spot.. Normally, the best pass rushing DE's play at RE on passing downs. That way they are coming from the QB's blind side. Therefore, your best pass blocking tackle always plays on the left..

You can't just keep your TE in pass protection on ever passing play... Why would you want to do that anyways? If you can get a guy who can hold up by himself then you gain the extra receiving threat.. You must agree we don't have that guy yet, otherwise you wouldn't be seeing the need to leave Graham in there to help out. Beings you agree we don't have a guy who can do the job by himself, I can't understand why you don't see the need to get someone who can play LT?

Harris might be the guy? If he proves he is that guy, we can always move the new guy to RT.. Either way, we have to many question marks at OT, it needs to be addressed in the draft.

[Fan in Exile]

FC my reply wasn't specific to you it was in general, so pointing out you never said something is fine, but doesn't really mean anything. That point has been made in this thread even if not by you.

I do understand what you typed I also understand that it is something that is in flux right now that I think we need to be on top of.

Take Jake Long for example he is expected to start at RT and may stay there because he struggles with speed rushers. This is the only knock on him, but it's one of the things that has kept him from being a surefire number one over all.

Sure people get moved around for the best match up but that doesn't change the fact that in general there are two different types of DE and in general there should be two different types of tackles.

I never advocated keeping Graham in to pass block on every play. I only said that because he is such a good blocker he can help make up for an ordinary LT.

I think you need to revisit your understanding of what makes someone the best tackle, I believe it's outdated. I think we will get to the point where the guy who can deal with speed rushers is on the left, and the guy who can take the power ends is on the right.

That doesn't mean that it won't on occasion get shaken up.

[fcspikeit]

Take Jake Long for example he is expected to start at RT and may stay there because he struggles with speed rushers. This is the only knock on him, but it's one of the things that has kept him from being a surefire number one over all.


So there's question marks about Long being good enough to play LT, Yet there is little doubt he is good enough to play RT. If he can't play RT what are the odds he can play LT? NONE!



Sure people get moved around for the best match up but that doesn't change the fact that in general there are two different types of DE and in general there should be two different types of tackles.


I agree the LT has to be quicker then the RT. Normally your speed guys come from the QB's blind side because he can't see them to step up like he can when they come from the right side. That doesn't mean your LT only has to be good against speed rushers. Ideally, both your tackles would be good against both speed and bull rushers. Those types of players don't come along every day. Those who do play LT. If they don't have the speed to match up against speed rushers, they get moved to RT



I never advocated keeping Graham in to pass block on every play. I only said that because he is such a good blocker he can help make up for an ordinary LT.


How is he supposed to make up for an ordinary LT if he isn't on the line blocking?



I think you need to revisit your understanding of what makes someone the best tackle, I believe it's outdated. I think we will get to the point where the guy who can deal with speed rushers is on the left, and the guy who can take the power ends is on the right.

That doesn't mean that it won't on occasion get shaken up.


Its the same as it has always been... The guy who can hold up against both the speed and power rushers play LT. If you have 2 guys who can do this you are set! That normaly wont happen though, someone is going to offer your RT more money to play LT for them.

LT's are by far the hardest to find of all O-lineman... Only the best athletes can play LT.. You don't pass up a true LT prospect in the draft for a RT Prospect.. You can always move the LT to the right side... You can't however always move the RT to the left side. If the guy isn't good enough to play RT he isn't good enough to play tackle.. When they say a tackle is a LT prospect, it means he is a great tackle prospect.. If they say a tackle is projected to play RT, it means he isn't good enough to play LT...

[Fan in Exile]

So there's question marks about Long being good enough to play LT, Yet there is little doubt he is good enough to play RT. If he can't play RT what are the odds he can play LT? NONE!

No one doubts that Long can play RT, I never said he couldn't. So I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.




I agree the LT has to be quicker then the RT. Normally your speed guys come from the QB's blind side because he can't see them to step up like he can when they come from the right side. That doesn't mean your LT only has to be good against speed rushers. Ideally, both your tackles would be good against both speed and bull rushers. Those types of players don't come along every day. Those who do play LT. If they don't have the speed to match up against speed rushers, they get moved to RT

I don't think you understand how little of this world is actually ideal. You are correct that in an ideal world your LT would be good against both. But take a look at Clady he seems to be good against speed but struggles against power. That's why I don't want him. The same is said of Harris and it's true about Pears.

If we had guys on our time who were good against both power and speed I would say let them fight it out, but we don't. We already have two guys who struggle with power I don't want a third.



How is he supposed to make up for an ordinary LT if he isn't on the line blocking?

This is an easy one. First I said he shouldn't be in there all the time, clearly some of the time he would have to be, for instance if we were throwing it deep. At other times he might chip block and still go out for a short route. At other times he might even just fake a block and still go out. These are all the things normal tight ends, he would just do them more and better.






Its the same as it has always been... The guy who can hold up against both the speed and power rushers play LT. If you have 2 guys who can do this you are set! That normaly wont happen though, someone is going to offer your RT more money to play LT for them.

LT's are by far the hardest to find of all O-lineman... Only the best athletes can play LT.. You don't pass up a true LT prospect in the draft for a RT Prospect.. You can always move the LT to the right side... You can't however always move the RT to the left side. If the guy isn't good enough to play RT he isn't good enough to play tackle.. When they say a tackle is a LT prospect, it means he is a great tackle prospect.. If they say a tackle is projected to play RT, it means he isn't good enough to play LT...

When they say he is a LT more and more they mean he can deal well with speed rushers. When they say he is a pure LT prospect they mean that's all he can handle.

You can't always move the guy over from left to right it's just not true. If you believe it is then we will have to agree to disagree.

[fcspikeit]

No one doubts that Long can play RT, I never said he couldn't. So I don't understand what point you are trying to make here.


My point is that, Long might not be good enough to play LT but no one doubts he is good enough to play RT. Therefore, It's a lot easier to play RT then it is LT.



I don't think you understand how little of this world is actually ideal. You are correct that in an ideal world your LT would be good against both. But take a look at Clady he seems to be good against speed but struggles against power. That's why I don't want him. The same is said of Harris and it's true about Pears.


If you have a LT that is only good against speed rushers, You don' have a good left tackle! It's really as simple as that. You might get by with a guy like that, but you are still looking for a complete left tackle. Every team is always looking for a franchise LT. Guys that are only good against speed rushers are not franchise LT's. If you believe our LT is only good against speed rushers, you should agree we still need a good LT...



If we had guys on our time who were good against both power and speed I would say let them fight it out, but we don't. We already have two guys who struggle with power I don't want a third.


That's exactly why we should look to take a true LT in the draft! Because we don't have a guy who is good against both speed and power rushers..




This is an easy one. First I said he shouldn't be in there all the time, clearly some of the time he would have to be, for instance if we were throwing it deep. At other times he might chip block and still go out for a short route. At other times he might even just fake a block and still go out. These are all the things normal tight ends, he would just do them more and better.



Even if your throwing it deep, it's nice to have the TE going underneath to hold the S.. The fact remains, if he is going out in routs he wont be there to help make up the difference for a lousy LT..




When they say he is a LT more and more they mean he can deal well with speed rushers. When they say he is a pure LT prospect they mean that's all he can handle.


If all a pure LT prospect can do is handle speed rushers, he wont go in the top 10... Whats the point of drafting a guy that high if you don't believe he can be a true LT and handle both? At the end of the day you will still need a true LT.

When was the last RT only prospect drafted in the top 10? Every top 10 OT taken, is taken that high because someone believes they can be a franchise LT.. You can always get a one dimensional tackle later in the draft.



You can't always move the guy over from left to right it's just not true. If you believe it is then we will have to agree to disagree.

Well, some LT's are so bad they can't play left or right. But it goes without saying, if a guy is good enough to play LT, he is without question good enough to play RT.. The only exception to this is if you have a left handed QB. If that is the case, your #1 tackle plays RT. Other then that, the RT is always the #2 tackle..

IMO, we should draft a LT this year, if there is one on the board when we pick. Unless Shanahan really believes Harris or someone else on the team can be a complete Tackle.. If neither are the case, our search for a true LT will continue...

[Fan in Exile]

My point is that, Long might not be good enough to play LT but no one doubts he is good enough to play RT. Therefore, It's a lot easier to play RT then it is LT.

This is where you are wrong, he may be better at right tackle not because of his quality but because of his skill set. Which admittedly isn't as prized as much as the LT skill set but isn't necessarily an indication of "better"




If you have a LT that is only good against speed rushers, You don' have a good left tackle! It's really as simple as that. You might get by with a guy like that, but you are still looking for a complete left tackle. Every team is always looking for a franchise LT. Guys that are only good against speed rushers are not franchise LT's. If you believe our LT is only good against speed rushers, you should agree we still need a good LT...

Again I would say this is where you are wrong. This is the old view that isn't valid anymore. There just aren't enough of these elite LT for your view to hold up, I would take one of these in a heartbeat and so would anyteam. There aren't however any in this draft. Thomas was one last year but they don't come around that often.

Long looks better on the Right. Clady and Williams will struggle against power guys. Otah could be one but he's raw. Cherilius is a right tackle. The list goes on like this. If I were talking about passing up on this mythical guy who could hold down either position that would be crazy, but I'm not. I'm talking about passing up guys who are little different from the ones we have and getting a guy who fills a hole we have on our roster.



That's exactly why we should look to take a true LT in the draft! Because we don't have a guy who is good against both speed and power rushers..

So who is it you think we should take?




Even if your throwing it deep, it's nice to have the TE going underneath to hold the S.. The fact remains, if he is going out in routs he wont be there to help make up the difference for a lousy LT..

This is a choice that is always made with TE so I don't know why you have such a hang up on it. There is always the question of do they block or do they catch a pass. I'm just saying that if the Harris struggles then we have Graham block a little more than he catches to help out.




If all a pure LT prospect can do is handle speed rushers, he wont go in the top 10... Whats the point of drafting a guy that high if you don't believe he can be a true LT and handle both? At the end of the day you will still need a true LT.

When was the last RT only prospect drafted in the top 10? Every top 10 OT taken, is taken that high because someone believes they can be a franchise LT.. You can always get a one dimensional tackle later in the draft.

I would like to point out that we aren't talking about taking a guy in the top ten. I hope you realize at least a little why they would be there for us at 12.

Really you see it as too black and white, it's not that they get completely blown away by the power guys it's just that those guys are harder for them to handle. Which is ok at LT now, because those guys mostly stay on the right side. Would any team with Clady, Williams or Harris trade them in for Thomas you bet. But until they get that opportunity they make do with what they've got, and keep a TE in to block when there is a power guy there.

Jake Long is just such a good player that even though he struggles with speed he guys he may make it as a left tackle, but he will be amazing at the right side.




Well, some LT's are so bad they can't play left or right. But it goes without saying, if a guy is good enough to play LT, he is without question good enough to play RT.. The only exception to this is if you have a left handed QB. If that is the case, your #1 tackle plays RT. Other then that, the RT is always the #2 tackle..

IMO, we should draft a LT this year, if there is one on the board when we pick. Unless Shanahan really believes Harris or someone else on the team can be a complete Tackle.. If neither are the case, our search for a true LT will continue...

It goes without saying only because it's not true. If this is what you believe then we are going to have to agree to disagree.

[fcspikeit]

This is where you are wrong, he may be better at right tackle not because of his quality but because of his skill set. Which admittedly isn't as prized as much as the LT skill set but isn't necessarily an indication of "better"


Not an indication of being "better"? His skill set has him going in the top 5! Ahead of guys who are better against speed rushers. If being good against speed guys were all that was needed to be a franchise LT Clady would go before him.. The thought is that his skill against speed rushers will improve, therefore making him a "true" LT.




Again I would say this is where you are wrong. This is the old view that isn't valid anymore. There just aren't enough of these elite LT for your view to hold up, I would take one of these in a heartbeat and so would anyteam. There aren't however any in this draft. Thomas was one last year but they don't come around that often.


That's why we need a true LT, they are rare. If we don't take a tackle, in the draft it's because there are no true LT's on the board when we pick. Not because we don't need one.



Long looks better on the Right. Clady and Williams will struggle against power guys. Otah could be one but he's raw. Cherilius is a right tackle. The list goes on like this. If I were talking about passing up on this mythical guy who could hold down either position that would be crazy, but I'm not. I'm talking about passing up guys who are little different from the ones we have and getting a guy who fills a hole we have on our roster.


This makes sense,, This however is not what you said before.. If we don't address the LT position because there isn't one good enough to be a LT, that isn't the same as saying we don't need a LT.




So who is it you think we should take?


I think Clady could strengthen up and be a true LT.. If he is off the board, we do not waist our 12th pick on a one dimensional tackle. If Clady is scouted as a one dimensional tackle.. We shouldn't take him either and the search for a true LT will have to continue




This is a choice that is always made with TE so I don't know why you have such a hang up on it. There is always the question of do they block or do they catch a pass. I'm just saying that if the Harris struggles then we have Graham block a little more than he catches to help out.


Your right, this happens with every team. Those who have to worry about leaving the TE in to block on passing downs, to cover for a lousy LT have just that. A lousy LT! Those teams don't just except this as a solution. They look for a better LT. If we are forced to leave Graham on the line on passing downs, we need another LT.



I would like to point out that we aren't talking about taking a guy in the top ten. I hope you realize at least a little why they would be there for us at 12.


I already said, if there are no tackles on the board when we pick who are good enough to protect the QB's blind side. We shouldn't waist the 12th pick. We can pick up a good RT later in the draft if that is what we want.



Jake Long is just such a good player that even though he struggles with speed he guys he may make it as a left tackle, but he will be amazing at the right side.


If Long can't make it as a LT, he should not have been taken in the top 5. Top 5 tackles are LT. You do not take a RT in the top 5, you can find them later in the draft



It goes without saying only because it's not true. If this is what you believe then we are going to have to agree to disagree.

#1 tackle = LT. #2 tackle = RT..

We can agree to disagree... I am however glad to see you have came around to the idea we need a true LT... I agree with you, we shouldn't waist the 12th pick on a one dimensional tackle, we have enough of them already, we need a LT.. :salute:

[Fan in Exile]

I haven't come around to your way of thinking you're wrong I'm just tired of replying to you.

[fcspikeit]

There just aren't enough of these elite LT for your view to hold up, I would take one of these in a heartbeat and so would anyteam. There aren't however any in this draft. Thomas was one last year but they don't come around that often..


So you don't agree we should take a "true" LT if we had the chance? :confused:



I haven't come around to your way of thinking you're wrong I'm just tired of replying to you.


Dido! ;)