Sources: Elvis Dumervil To Receive Contract Extension

[getlynched47]

I'm very surprised this hasn't been posted yet. I understand it isn't definitive, but it's worth talking about. I got it from mane:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/02/21/vikings-unlikely-to-keep-rb-taylor


The Broncos are under no obligation to offer him a long-term deal and could probably re-sign him by tendering him at the highest level ($3.168 million), but sources say there's a chance the team will agree to a contract extension with OLB Elvis Dumervil before he becomes a restricted free agent March 5. Dumervil had a league-high 17 sacks last season, and the club wants to keep him in town for many years to come.

Excellent...I hope it becomes official soon :salute:

[SR]

Awesome

[MasterShake]

Why, thats Sack-tacular news!!!

...eh...I'll go away now...

[GEM]

I'll believe it when it becomes fact. This NEEDS TO HAPPEN!!

[Shazam!]

Best Broncos-bred defensive front seven player we've had in years. They need to keep him.

[ikillz0mbies]

Nice.

[JDL]

Best Broncos-bred defensive front seven player we've had in years. They need to keep him.

yeah 3 years...

Al Wilson says hi (Doom is good but NOWHERE near Wilson's level... Wilson carried the defense...Doom just rushes the passer.)

[Poet]

Fantastic, simply fantastic.

[Carl]

Ahhhhhhh Mannnnn Josh:tsk: I thought the plan was to trade away all of our playmakers this offseason....... What happened? I mean, how are we ever gonna go into rebuilding mode when we keep bringing the talent back.:rolleyes:

Yeah but seriously Im stoked on this:D

[Carl]

yeah 3 years...

Al Wilson says hi (Doom is good but NOWHERE near Wilson's level... Wilson carried the defense...Doom just rushes the passer.)

Bitter much?

[Ziggy]

Bitter much?

I don't think he's bitter. He just tends to try and demean anyone who doesn't agree with his opinion. Wilson was a great front 7 player for us, and only time will tell which player was better. Wilson's career is over, and Doom's just getting into full swing. Right now I would have to give big Al the edge as well, but without being rude about it.

[Broncolingus]

Good news...

Now, just need a solid DT or two, to take some of those good offensive linemen away and let Doom keep putting some QBs on their fanny's...

[Northman]

yeah 3 years...

Al Wilson says hi (Doom is good but NOWHERE near Wilson's level... Wilson carried the defense...Doom just rushes the passer.)

Doom just rushes the passer. Yea, thats what Denver needs sorry to say and its something thats been severely lacking yet he gets no Dline help. In 8 years the mighty Al Wilson had 21 sacks. Woah! Stop the presses.

[BroncoWave]

But, but, but...McDaniels hates Shanahan players!

[dogfish]

i devoutly hope this happens-- i've been saying that it needs to. . . on a team that has been weak on defense, he's our one young impact defender-- not to mention being one of the league's premiere edge rushers, and if you doubt the importance of edge rushers in the NFL, read the discussion about franchise tag numbers and top salaries by position in the other thread (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115805) . . .

he's a proven performer at multiple positions in multiple fronts, he's just entering his prime and already has plenty of experience, and he's obviously a natural pass rusher. . . he's also a high-motor guy on the field and reportedly a hard worker off it. . . witness how well he adapted to playing in a 2-point stance after having his hand in the dirt since college-- that doesn't happen without a LOT of work, and his relatively smooth transition shows the time he put in, but also suggests that he still has room to grow and improve at the position. . . he's durable, and he keeps his mouth shut unless he's giving a company-line soundbyte to satisfy the league's media policy. . . i also appreciate that he's been a professional and kept his contract concerns private-- you don't have to look further than our other high profile RFA to understand how much better it is that way. . .

dude deserves a fat extension, and locking up some of our top young talent is the right thing to do. . . i hope it gets done. . .

[Ziggy]

Doom's ceiling hasn't been reached yet. I can't wait to see what he can do with a good Dline in front of him. Let's not take away what big Al did though. He was the general on the field, and the heart and soul of the defense. He was a great leader on and off the field, and never took a play off. The day he left, the Broncos defense went soft and never recoverd. It took bringing BDawk in to even start to regain that swagger that they once had. I won't call one or the other better until Doom's career is over.

[Lonestar]

Debbie Downer Here.

I do not see any block buster deals cut without a new CBA in place, there is absolutely no need to do so. Other than be a good guy.

It makes NO business sense to pay someone 8 mil year if you can have him for 3+. Unless he gives us one hell of a home town discount.

The worst thing that happens is he is a RFA @ 3 mil and we match any deal that he is offered or we get a #1 and #3 for the privilege of him having played here.

[Poet]

I'm not sure that if the lack of a deal being in place matters here. From what I've gathered Bowlen is wealthier than most of the other owners. If a cap comes into place Doom will fit in it, if it doesn't than Bowlen looks like he's going to be spending big bucks anyway.

[Gamechanger]

smart move

[dogfish]

Debbie Downer Here.

I do not see any block buster deals cut without a new CBA in place, there is absolutely no need to do so. Other than be a good guy.

It makes NO business sense to pay someone 8 mil year if you can have him for 3+. Unless he gives us one hell of a home town discount.

The worst thing that happens is he is a RFA @ 3 mil and we match any deal that he is offered or we get a #1 and #3 for the privilege of him having played here.


if they're plnning to sign him to a long term deal anyway-- which is the smart thing to do-- then why in the world would you let him get to the RFA market and let somebody else drive the price up when he's apparently willing to sign without testing the market? if we're serious about signing him i'm assuming that the front office is astute enough to guess that someone will at least sign him to an offer sheet, and if that's the case it makes sense to negotiate with him now while we still have exclusive rights. . .

i've made a number of posts previously saying that this would be the right thing to do, and i still believe that completely. . .



king, bowlen is NOT generally regarded as one of the wealthier owners, and quite frankly there have been a number of whispers lately that he's not sure how much longer he really wants to shell out. . . although, in the interest of full disclosure, the team has also, and not surprisingly, roundly denied such rumors. . . either way, he's not one of the guys like jerruh jones or dan snyder who would be a prime suspect for a spending spree in the uncapped year. . .

which, IMO is all the more reason to get something done before guys with bigger checkbooks can start putting offers out there. . .

[West]

Best Broncos-bred defensive front seven player we've had in years. They need to keep him.

Maybe for pass rushing, after that, he's pretty worthless.


Give him the contract, though.

[GEM]

Maybe for pass rushing, after that, he's pretty worthless.


Give him the contract, though.

Pass rushing is pretty important. Hopefully if we can get some talent to deal with the run in the front 7, pass rushing is all we need him for.

[CoachChaz]

I guess the question is...what is 12-17 sacks a year (and not much else) worth?

[broncofaninfla]

I guess the question is...what is 12-17 sacks a year (and not much else) worth?

An 8-8 season :beer:

[T.K.O.]

when you make 30-40 mil a year with the team on the field....its reasonable to assume that most owners cannot afford to pay 100 million is salaries to players who are in a lockout.
the biggest reason nobody's getting the big contracts right now is teams are trying to figure out how to keep players w/o a looming huge payday in 2011 when there could be no revenue coming in.
it sucks for everybody.
i just can't believe with all that $$$ the 2 sides cant just get a deal done that makes them all happy.
its like 2 rich kids fighting over who gets the mercedes and who gets the porche !
while everyone else is waiting for the bus !:mad:

[Italianmobstr7]

If we re-sign him, and I really hope we do, I'm buying his jersey and wearing it to the game I go to this year. I like Dumervil, he's a hard worker and a good character guy. He embodies what a Denver Bronco should be. Guys like Doom, Bailey and Dawkins. I hope we re-sign him and he's a Bronco for a long time.

[Northman]

If we re-sign him, and I really hope we do, I'm buying his jersey and wearing it to the game I go to this year. I like Dumervil, he's a hard worker and a good character guy. He embodies what a Denver Bronco should be. Guys like Doom, Bailey and Dawkins. I hope we re-sign him and he's a Bronco for a long time.

Amen brother. Give me a player to believe in and Doom comes to mind. Always underappreciated but never gives up no matter where they put him.

[West]

Pass rushing is pretty important. Hopefully if we can get some talent to deal with the run in the front 7, pass rushing is all we need him for.

That's ideal. I always thought we should have used him like the Cowboys used Ware, in passing situations.. He's a big liability in run support.

[GEM]

That's ideal. I always thought we should have used him like the Cowboys used Ware, in passing situations.. He's a big liability in run support.

That's where you depend on your COACHES to know the abilities of their players. If you know, and we all as fans know, that he is a liability against the run, that's on the coaches. Either you coach him up in the departments he deficient or you only play him in his ideal situation.

Now, if they can surround him by run stuffers on the line, that will leave it open to him being on the field more often. It's all going to depend on who they surround him with.

Ware has a beastly line to accompany him, we don't have that.

[West]

That's where you depend on your COACHES to know the abilities of their players. If you know, and we all as fans know, that he is a liability against the run, that's on the coaches. Either you coach him up in the departments he deficient or you only play him in his ideal situation.

Now, if they can surround him by run stuffers on the line, that will leave it open to him being on the field more often. It's all going to depend on who they surround him with.

Ware has a beastly line to accompany him, we don't have that.

You hit the nail on the head in the last part; he is our only option. The talent on our front 7 is at a college level. Its pathetic.

[TXBRONC]

Doom's ceiling hasn't been reached yet. I can't wait to see what he can do with a good Dline in front of him. Let's not take away what big Al did though. He was the general on the field, and the heart and soul of the defense. He was a great leader on and off the field, and never took a play off. The day he left, the Broncos defense went soft and never recoverd. It took bringing BDawk in to even start to regain that swagger that they once had. I won't call one or the other better until Doom's career is over.

I totally agree. If Denver can get defensive linemen in front of him that can tie up blockers that should help him boost his tackle numbers as well as helping him to keep his sack numbers consistent.

[dogfish]

That's ideal. I always thought we should have used him like the Cowboys used Ware, in passing situations.. He's a big liability in run support.

dude, it's 2010. . . not 1975. . .

every down is a passing down, the best pass rushers never leave the field. . . DWare is no situational player. . . watch the colts some time and tell me they only use freeney and mathis in passing situations! :lol:

dungy and kiffin never took simeon rice off the field-- the phins never took jason taylor off the field in his prime. . .

teams just don't shell out the serious big bucks that the top edge rushers command to have them sit on the bench 40% of the time. . . what we NEED to do is get some stout defensive linemen, not start sitting our top pass rusher when last year was the first time since '05 that we actually HAD a pass rush. . .

[Ravage!!!]

I like Doom... and am excited for his 2009 season, and maybe I just have my doubts... but I just don't see him being the consistant threat he was this last year. I see that being his career season, and one he'll make bank on.. but will never be that kind of pass rushing threat again. I would love to be wrong on this, and don't have anything specific to point at.... just a feeling I get when watching him play.

I guess I just don't get the feeling that this guy is a "he hasn't reached his potential yet" type of player... but rather one that has peaked, and is already a liability against the run. I just don't have the Doom-mania

[West]

dude, it's 2010. . . not 1975. . .

every down is a passing down, the best pass rushers never leave the field. . . DWare is no situational player. . . watch the colts some time and tell me they only use freeney and mathis in passing situations! :lol:

dungy and kiffin never took simeon rice off the field-- the phins never took jason taylor off the field in his prime. . .

teams just don't shell out the serious big bucks that the top edge rushers command to have them sit on the bench 40% of the time. . . what we NEED to do is get some stout defensive linemen, not start sitting our top pass rusher when last year was the first time since '05 that we actually HAD a pass rush. . .

Yes DeMarcus Ware is a situational player. They bring him in on the obvious passing downs. We should do the same thing with Doom. It is a passing league but that still doesn't change the fact that when the other team DOES decide to run the ball we get bitch slapped. Doom and the rest of the front line gets the brunt of the bitch slapping.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

yay

[G_Money]

Dumervil: 17 sacks, 41 tackles, 7 assists.
Ware: 11 sacks, 47 tackles, 13 assists (20, 69 and 15 the previous year).
Rice: used to average around 15 sacks, 40 tackles and 7 assists.

It seems weird to say, but just producing sacks and a handful of tackles is all that's expected of Doom's job-title of "sack master."

The Reggie Whites and Bruce Smiths of the world play a different position, from which they get their 100+ tackles and 15 sacks a season. But even Reggie wasn't doing that the last half of his career - nor was Smith. They were in the range of the above pass-rushers from about age 30 on. If you're always going after the QB then you leave run clean-up (And therefore tackle stats) to other players. Which is why it's vital to have a bunch of other guys on that side who can make plays.

I love Elvis. I want him to become a commentator here after he's done playing (guy is fiercely articulate). But unless we have other playmakers to back him up we've already seen what leading the league in sacks from his position can do for us.

Not enough.

As part of the larger plan, though, I'd love to welcome Doom back.

~G

[Lonestar]

if they're plnning to sign him to a long term deal anyway-- which is the smart thing to do-- then why in the world would you let him get to the RFA market and let somebody else drive the price up when he's apparently willing to sign without testing the market? if we're serious about signing him i'm assuming that the front office is astute enough to guess that someone will at least sign him to an offer sheet, and if that's the case it makes sense to negotiate with him now while we still have exclusive rights. . .

i've made a number of posts previously saying that this would be the right thing to do, and i still believe that completely. . .



king, bowlen is NOT generally regarded as one of the wealthier owners, and quite frankly there have been a number of whispers lately that he's not sure how much longer he really wants to shell out. . . although, in the interest of full disclosure, the team has also, and not surprisingly, roundly denied such rumors. . . either way, he's not one of the guys like jerruh jones or dan snyder who would be a prime suspect for a spending spree in the uncapped year. . .

which, IMO is all the more reason to get something done before guys with bigger checkbooks can start putting offers out there. . .

While I get what you are saying as an owner GM I would give him a contract with a big home town discount and see if he bites if not allow him to RFA and look at what offers he accepts IF any are offered.

Remember not only do they (other teams) have to make him happy, he has to want to go to the team. We could always match it IF they want to give up and contract and their first and third for him.

I would weigh the offer sheet and look at the draft position before I matched it .

Sorry but I do not see him worth 9-10 million a year type guy. He is a pass rusher and nothing more, he is not good at dropping back into coverage.

Maybe he will get better but betting the franchise on a guy that because of his size has taken a beating in the past four years and may not have many more left.

If he gets a knee injury he loses his speed and would then be a liability cap wise.

Color me stupid but I'd rather have a super solid LOS DLINE type first.

[Northman]

Dumervil: 17 sacks, 41 tackles, 7 assists.
Ware: 11 sacks, 47 tackles, 13 assists (20, 69 and 15 the previous year).
Rice: used to average around 15 sacks, 40 tackles and 7 assists.

It seems weird to say, but just producing sacks and a handful of tackles is all that's expected of Doom's job-title of "sack master."

The Reggie Whites and Bruce Smiths of the world play a different position, from which they get their 100+ tackles and 15 sacks a season. But even Reggie wasn't doing that the last half of his career - nor was Smith. They were in the range of the above pass-rushers from about age 30 on. If you're always going after the QB then you leave run clean-up (And therefore tackle stats) to other players. Which is why it's vital to have a bunch of other guys on that side who can make plays.

I love Elvis. I want him to become a commentator here after he's done playing (guy is fiercely articulate). But unless we have other playmakers to back him up we've already seen what leading the league in sacks from his position can do for us.

Not enough.

As part of the larger plan, though, I'd love to welcome Doom back.

~G

Well said.

[West]

Dumervil: 17 sacks, 41 tackles, 7 assists.
Ware: 11 sacks, 47 tackles, 13 assists (20, 69 and 15 the previous year).
Rice: used to average around 15 sacks, 40 tackles and 7 assists.

It seems weird to say, but just producing sacks and a handful of tackles is all that's expected of Doom's job-title of "sack master."

The Reggie Whites and Bruce Smiths of the world play a different position, from which they get their 100+ tackles and 15 sacks a season. But even Reggie wasn't doing that the last half of his career - nor was Smith. They were in the range of the above pass-rushers from about age 30 on. If you're always going after the QB then you leave run clean-up (And therefore tackle stats) to other players. Which is why it's vital to have a bunch of other guys on that side who can make plays.

I love Elvis. I want him to become a commentator here after he's done playing (guy is fiercely articulate). But unless we have other playmakers to back him up we've already seen what leading the league in sacks from his position can do for us.

Not enough.

As part of the larger plan, though, I'd love to welcome Doom back.

~G

Well said, G.

[Poet]

I don't think that Ware is a situational player. I'm pretty sure he plays most of the downs, but I could be wrong.

[dogfish]

Yes DeMarcus Ware is a situational player. They bring him in on the obvious passing downs. We should do the same thing with Doom. It is a passing league but that still doesn't change the fact that when the other team DOES decide to run the ball we get bitch slapped. Doom and the rest of the front line gets the brunt of the bitch slapping.


I don't think that Ware is a situational player. I'm pretty sure he plays most of the downs, but I could be wrong.

no, you're not wrong at all-- you're just not as "special" as west, who obviously hasn't watched a dallas game in years and doesn't realize that DWare is a fulltime starter. . .

lolz. . .




I like Doom... and am excited for his 2009 season, and maybe I just have my doubts... but I just don't see him being the consistant threat he was this last year. I see that being his career season, and one he'll make bank on.. but will never be that kind of pass rushing threat again. I would love to be wrong on this, and don't have anything specific to point at.... just a feeling I get when watching him play.

I guess I just don't get the feeling that this guy is a "he hasn't reached his potential yet" type of player... but rather one that has peaked, and is already a liability against the run. I just don't have the Doom-mania

i really don't understand why you'd feel that way about a guy who's only 26 years old and just played his first year at a new position-- one at which guys have traditionally been able to be productive late into their careers. . .

honestly. . . is it just because he's short? or something like that? because he has all the other physical attributes-- first step, closing burst, change of direction, and he's reportedly plenty strong for his size. . . plus he's technically sound, hard-working and competitive. . . even if his sack numbers never equal last year-- and i'm not at all ready to concede that they won't-- he still has plenty of room for improvement in his overall game at LB as he continues to learn the nuances of the position and polish his technique so it's second nature and he can just play. . . i woud also expect his field vision and his backpedal to improve over the next few years-- guys that made the switch right out of college like willie mcginest have gone on record about how difficult it is and how long it takes to really master it. . .

also, i guess i don't really understand these repeated worries about consistency that i've seen here. . . he has eight or more sacks in three of his four pro seasons, double digit sacks in two of them, and i believ e he has the most sacks of anyone in the league the past four years (don't quote me on that-- i think i remember hearing or reading it, and i'm not going to bother looking it up ATM-- if he's not the highest, he's in the top two or three for sure). . .

it's not like he's a one year wonder-- the guy has proven that he can rush the passer at this level. . .




While I get what you are saying as an owner GM I would give him a contract with a big home town discount and see if he bites if not allow him to RFA and look at what offers he accepts IF any are offered.

Remember not only do they (other teams) have to make him happy, he has to want to go to the team. We could always match it IF they want to give up and contract and their first and third for him.

I would weigh the offer sheet and look at the draft position before I matched it .

essentially what you're saying is that you'd lowball him and then slap him with the RFA tender when he didn't take it. . .

typically not a popular way of doing business in the NFL, where if you don't want to pay a guy what he's worth, somebody else almost always will. . . that stuff MAY work if you're new england or pittsburgh, but when's the last time we hoisted a lombardi? pull too much of that stuff and you'll have agents steering their clients away from denver, which isn't a good thing unless you can draft like the colts. . .


Sorry but I do not see him worth 9-10 million a year type guy. He is a pass rusher and nothing more, he is not good at dropping back into coverage.

funny. . . you ALWAYS make excuses for orton about his first year in the system and all that, well this was doom's first year even playing that position!


Maybe he will get better but betting the franchise on a guy that because of his size has taken a beating in the past four years and may not have many more left.

he's 26 years old and he's never missed a game in his pro career. . . what are you talking about?

now you're just making stuff up. . . :lol: how young do you think guys are when they get their first big deal in the NFL? what are we supposed to do, sign guys to huge deals two years out of college, or never keep our stars past their rookie deals because they might be used up by their fourth or fifth season?


If he gets a knee injury he loses his speed and would then be a liability cap wise.

yep. . . exactly true, about both elvis and every single other player in the league. . .

do you know where we can find some guys who ARE guaranteed not to get hurt? or once again, should we never sign anyone to more than a rookie deal or vet minimum deal to avoid having money tied up in injured players? we won't get very good talent that way. . .

seriously, you take a chance whenever you sign anyone that they could get hurt. . . it's the NFL and that's how it works. . . there is no insurance, it's a risk every team takes every time they hand out a contract. . .


Color me stupid but I'd rather have a super solid LOS DLINE type first.

that's fine, but the problem is we DON'T have one of those guys. . . so either we sign the proven performer at the other important position so we can actually try to win some games in the meantime, and we go look for that D-line help. . . OR, we get rid of the pass rusher, take two steps back on defense, and then. . . do the same thing and then go look for the D-line help. . . and then when we find it, maybe we still can't play any good defense because we let our good pass rusher walk and ayers didn't turn into the hulk and take his place. . .

you need to build around the good young talent you have, not keep recycling it looking for something different. . . we're not going to get anywhere if we keep feeding that eternal cycle of rebuilding. . .

i can live with it if we let marshall walk in exchange for the right price, and i'm assuming scheffler is gone as well, but as far as i'm concerned that means we really need to keep doom and kupes. . . gotta have some consistency, let our better young players mature into the system and not turn the roster over at a massive rate any longer than necessary, and let guys grow together and develop some chemistry. . .

if mcdaniels and co. did decide to just let everyone go for draft picks, IMO it's really easy to predict that they would be acquiring talent for somebody else to coach a couple years down the road. . . i'm guessing they're bright enough to have figured this out, which is why we're hearing about contract talks with doom, and everyone is at least saying the right things in regards to marshall. . .

[T.K.O.]

^
|

that was some excellent work right there :salute:

[Lonestar]

Essentially what you're saying is that you'd lowball him and then slap him with the RFA tender when he didn't take it. . .


YEP that is what I would do he liked his position coach last year and now he has been promoted. Lets see just how much he liked him and ask for a hometown/wink discount.


typically not a popular way of doing business in the NFL, where if you don't want to pay a guy what he's worth, somebody else almost always will. . . that stuff MAY work if you're new england or pittsburgh, but when's the last time we hoisted a lombardi? pull too much of that stuff and you'll have agents steering their clients away from denver, which isn't a good thing unless you can draft like the colts. . .

Not popular but lets think about the franchise first YOU know Joshes TEAM concept.

funny. . . you ALWAYS make excuses for orton about his first year in the system and all that, well this was doom's first year even playing that position!

I've not made excuses for Orton merely pointed out that THE entire TEAM had to relearn the game of football, NE style and yes Doom did indeed change positions. But, like I said in the following sentence he is a one trick pony at rushing the passer only, MAYBE he will grow into a playing in space guy. I guess we will see just how much his LB coach from last year thinks he can.


he's 26 years old and he's never missed a game in his pro career. . . what are you talking about?


Your correct he has not missed a game which means he was getting beat up in years past by guys that out weighed him by 30-80 pounds. That takes a toll on someone. Now he is out in space a bit more, but he is now getting doubled by more than just an OT, now it is an OT and a TE whom for the most part out weighs him also. Couple that with RB going to cut him. The kid is getting the snot beat out of him weekly.


now you're just making stuff up. . . :lol: how young do you think guys are when they get their first big deal in the NFL? what are we supposed to do, sign guys to huge deals two years out of college, or never keep our stars past their rookie deals because they might be used up by their fourth or fifth season?

I'd love to have him on the team, BUT not at 9+ million a year, To me that is just to much money to give one player when this team need a lot of help in other positions. But then that is just me.

yep. . . exactly true, about both elvis and every single other player in the league. . .

do you know where we can find some guys who ARE guaranteed not to get hurt? or once again, should we never sign anyone to more than a rookie deal or vet minimum deal to avoid having money tied up in injured players? we won't get very good talent that way. . .

NO I do not know how to guarantee an injury free season. But I would rather pay 3 guys 3 mil each rather than put all my eggs in one basket until such time as we JUST need one Doomerville to get over the top. that Means you have less chance of bagging 9 mil injuries with one guy.


seriously, you take a chance whenever you sign anyone that they could get hurt. . . it's the NFL and that's how it works. . . there is no insurance, it's a risk every team takes every time they hand out a contract. . .



that's fine, but the problem is we DON'T have one of those guys. . . so either we sign the proven performer at the other important position so we can actually try to win some games in the meantime, and we go look for that D-line help. . . OR, we get rid of the pass rusher, take two steps back on defense, and then. . . do the same thing and then go look for the D-line help. . . and then when we find it, maybe we still can't play any good defense because we let our good pass rusher walk and ayers didn't turn into the hulk and take his place. . .

you need to build around the good young talent you have, not keep recycling it looking for something different. . . we're not going to get anywhere if we keep feeding that eternal cycle of rebuilding. . .




i can live with it if we let marshall walk in exchange for the right price, and i'm assuming scheffler is gone as well, but as far as i'm concerned that means we really need to keep doom and kupes. . . gotta have some consistency, let our better young players mature into the system and not turn the roster over at a massive rate any longer than necessary, and let guys grow together and develop some chemistry. . .

if mcdaniels and co. did decide to just let everyone go for draft picks, IMO it's really easy to predict that they would be acquiring talent for somebody else to coach a couple years down the road. . . i'm guessing they're bright enough to have figured this out, which is why we're hearing about contract talks with doom, and everyone is at least saying the right things in regards to marshall. . .


By the time Josh gets all of his players in place DOOM will have blown his WAD IMO.

I do not have any issues with getting good value for someone in draft choices or trade value. and I'm not saying that we should give Doom away.

Now on the other hand BM well he IMO has a higher value.

Remember that mossy teams are not going to sign a bunch of player to big (guaranteed) contracts this coming year when they have a good chance of not playing football next year. Meaning they still have to make those payments if they did not give it away up front.

Jerry Jones will be limited to only signing as many players as FA to the number that they lose. as for Synder he is free to sign as many as he wants. But D is not one of his weaknesses. I'd say that BM and Scheffler would wind up there.


The key to all of these is IF they are tendered at the highest level, We still have the chance to match their offer.

Which means that we would probably not pay any more for him then as we would now IF his agent is sharp. Unless he tells his agent he wans to give us a 6 mil per year contract up front and get his money now.

I would give him the RFA high tender and match it if I want him that bad if not take the first and third and use that 9 mil to sign them.

Like I said it is only business with me and I'd play the odds that no one wants them both for the contract they will get and give up their first and third also.

[Ravage!!!]

if it takes THAT long for Josh to "get his players"... in today's NFL, then we are screwed. By that time, Clady would have 'blown his wad"... Royal.. hell, even our famed dud Moreno.

Dog... like I said, I don' tknow why I have this gut feeling on him, but I just do. I know he's really bad against the run, and thats not something that happened just this year... which, makes him a situational pass rusher. I honestly don't have anything against him, but just feel (inside) that its not something I expect to see for many more years. I just don't see him being a premeir pass rusher consistently. I guess we'll see, then I'll be glad to be shown differently. But as of right now, I'm just not a believer.

[TXBRONC]

By the time Josh gets all of his players in place DOOM will have blown his WAD IMO.

I do not have any issues with getting good value for someone in draft choices or trade value. and I'm not saying that we should give Doom away.

Now on the other hand BM well he IMO has a higher value.

Remember that mossy teams are not going to sign a bunch of player to big (guaranteed) contracts this coming year when they have a good chance of not playing football next year. Meaning they still have to make those payments if they did not give it away up front.

Jerry Jones will be limited to only signing as many players as FA to the number that they lose. as for Synder he is free to sign as many as he wants. But D is not one of his weaknesses. I'd say that BM and Scheffler would wind up there.


The key to all of these is IF they are tendered at the highest level, We still have the chance to match their offer.

Which means that we would probably not pay any more for him then as we would now IF his agent is sharp. Unless he tells his agent he wans to give us a 6 mil per year contract up front and get his money now.

I would give him the RFA high tender and match it if I want him that bad if not take the first and third and use that 9 mil to sign them.

Like I said it is only business with me and I'd play the odds that no one wants them both for the contract they will get and give up their first and third also.


But of coarse you'll never be a GM.

[dogfish]

Your correct he has not missed a game which means he was getting beat up in years past by guys that out weighed him by 30-80 pounds. That takes a toll on someone. Now he is out in space a bit more, but he is now getting doubled by more than just an OT, now it is an OT and a TE whom for the most part out weighs him also. Couple that with RB going to cut him. The kid is getting the snot beat out of him weekly.

*shrugs*

that's football-- guys get beat up. . . it's going to happen, unless goodell puts skirts on 'em. . . pretty much anybody who's good enough to have earned a big contract has logged plenty of snaps. . . if you're going to give out big money, you get the best odds when you give it to a guy who's shown that he can hold up to the abuse. . .

defensive end isn't like running back. . . sure, he's been banged around, but it's not like he's been taking 20-30 kill shots a game. . .




NO I do not know how to guarantee an injury free season. But I would rather pay 3 guys 3 mil each rather than put all my eggs in one basket until such time as we JUST need one Doomerville to get over the top. that Means you have less chance of bagging 9 mil injuries with one guy.

like i said, that's great if you can consistently draft players who are ready to come in and make an impact right away, and find those guys on the second day as well as the first. . .

because if you can't, what kind of linebacker you plan on getting for three million a year if he's past his rookie deal?

some numbers from last year:

channing crowder - 6.5 mil
joey porter - 5 mil
kawika mitchell - 2.5 mil
akin oyedele - 2.75 mil
adalius thomas - 2 mil
junior seau - 1.14 mil
tully banta-cain - 675,000
bart scott - 11 mil
calvin pace - 10 mil
bryan thomas - 2.1 mil
terrell suggs - 15 mil
ray lewis - 10 mil
jarrett johnson 3.3 mil
dhani jones - 1.5 mil
eric barton - 3.5 mil
james harrison - 13 mil
james farrior - 3 mil
keyaron fox - 1 mil
dj williams - 8.6 mil
keith bulluck - 6.5 mil
david thornton - 4.5 mil
gary brackett - 2.4 mil
kevin bentley - 1 mil
chaun thompson - 1 mil
mike vrabel - 3.2 mil
demorio williams - 1.75 mil
kevin burnett - 3.6 mil
isiah ekujiuba - 2.4 mil
kirk morrison 2.3 mil

it depends on which year of their contract they're in obviouslky, and there are a few good names on that list that are below three million a year-- but for the most part, IMO guys like kevin burnett, eric barton and akin ayodele are perfect examples of the kind of guy you get for 3 mil per. . . borderline starter/capable backup type guys. . . i'll take elvis over all three of 'em. . .

[Lonestar]

*shrugs*

that's football-- guys get beat up. . . it's going to happen, unless goodell puts skirts on 'em. . . pretty much anybody who's good enough to have earned a big contract has logged plenty of snaps. . . if you're going to give out big money, you get the best odds when you give it to a guy who's shown that he can hold up to the abuse. . .

defensive end isn't like running back. . . sure, he's been banged around, but it's not like he's been taking 20-30 kill shots a game. . .





like i said, that's great if you can consistently draft players who are ready to come in and make an impact right away, and find those guys on the second day as well as the first. . .

because if you can't, what kind of linebacker you plan on getting for three million a year if he's past his rookie deal?

some numbers from last year:

channing crowder - 6.5 mil
joey porter - 5 mil
kawika mitchell - 2.5 mil
akin oyedele - 2.75 mil
adalius thomas - 2 mil
junior seau - 1.14 mil
tully banta-cain - 675,000
bart scott - 11 mil
calvin pace - 10 mil
bryan thomas - 2.1 mil
terrell suggs - 15 mil
ray lewis - 10 mil
jarrett johnson 3.3 mil
dhani jones - 1.5 mil
eric barton - 3.5 mil
james harrison - 13 mil
james farrior - 3 mil
keyaron fox - 1 mil
dj williams - 8.6 mil
keith bulluck - 6.5 mil
david thornton - 4.5 mil
gary brackett - 2.4 mil
kevin bentley - 1 mil
chaun thompson - 1 mil
mike vrabel - 3.2 mil
demorio williams - 1.75 mil
kevin burnett - 3.6 mil
isiah ekujiuba - 2.4 mil
kirk morrison 2.3 mil

it depends on which year of their contract they're in obviouslky, and there are a few good names on that list that are below three million a year-- but for the most part, IMO guys like kevin burnett, eric barton and akin ayodele are perfect examples of the kind of guy you get for 3 mil per. . . borderline starter/capable backup type guys. . . i'll take elvis over all three of 'em. . .



See this is the mentality that got us to where we are today. Big money spent every which way on over priced players.

Josh is trying to build a TEAM, you do not always need stars to do so and IF they are stars they have to be great leaders and not self centered.

While NE's staff does have some super stars on the team for the most part when they get done with their rookie contracts and want the moon they are allowed to leave. Because they have already drafted or acquired their replacements. They got value for seymour last year when they traded him to OAK because they al ready had his replacement on the squad. As far as Wilfork is concerned they have already drafted to replace him as well.

they are playing a little catch up right now because they have allowed a few to many players to leave. SO they IMHO will pay him a one year deal as a Franchise player and try to trade him. IMHO.

If you do not get how I see it then MY friend we will have to agree to disagree.:salute:

It is late and I'm off to bed .

[slim]

I'm not sure that if the lack of a deal being in place matters here. From what I've gathered Bowlen is wealthier than most of the other owners. If a cap comes into place Doom will fit in it, if it doesn't than Bowlen looks like he's going to be spending big bucks anyway.

You have gathered wrong...you should stick to hunting.

[Poet]

You have gathered wrong...you should stick to hunting.

I hunt via phone-to-pizza-predator-style.

My technique is strong!

Hold on, you guys paid D.J. Williams 8.6 million dollars?

Ugh.

[dogfish]

See this is the mentality that got us to where we are today. Big money spent every which way on over priced players.

Josh is trying to build a TEAM, you do not always need stars to do so and IF they are stars they have to be great leaders and not self centered.

While NE's staff does have some super stars on the team for the most part when they get done with their rookie contracts and want the moon they are allowed to leave. Because they have already drafted or acquired their replacements. They got value for seymour last year when they traded him to OAK because they al ready had his replacement on the squad. As far as Wilfork is concerned they have already drafted to replace him as well.

they are playing a little catch up right now because they have allowed a few to many players to leave. SO they IMHO will pay him a one year deal as a Franchise player and try to trade him. IMHO.

If you do not get how I see it then MY friend we will have to agree to disagree.:salute:

It is late and I'm off to bed .

well, maybe if we had tom brady we could do what new england does, too. . .

but we obviously don't got him. . . nor do we have wilfork and ty warren to lean on, or one of the most accomplished coaches of all time, or a proven front office. . . or an established scheme with some of the existing guys having years in it. . .

if we hopefully some day get those things then maybe we too can make do with less talent, but until then we need the talent. . . even teams like indy and pitt-- the two model franchises, IMO-- have their superstars. . . we saw this year how much different pitt's defense was without polahairdo, and indy is largely fueled by stars like freeney, clark, wayne etc-- not to mention manning, of course. . .

we're no where even close to that level, and unless we're willing to wait three to five years to be competitive, we need to keep some of our quality younger vets around. . . all good teams do that. . . we don;t currently have any monster deals on contract other than maybe the last year of champ's deal, and this IS the last year of it. . . DJ's making a lot, but his new deal wasn't terrible over the length of the contract at all. . . and look at all the expiring contracts we're going to be having over the course of the next few years with older guys like holiday, peterson, andra davis, goodman, hill, dawk. . .

and we may lose stokes this year, just cut wiegmann, and i expect us to part ways with hamilton as well. . . we're in no way strapped for cash, and that's even assuming that there's going to BE a salary cap in the future-- we pretty much know there's not going to be one this year. . .

even if they give doom a huge deal, it's in no way going to overburden our salary structure. . . they're not going to give him manning money!


i do understand your perspective-- i just don't agree with it all that much on this particular issue. . .

[Lonestar]

Regardless of the talent I just do not see that any player is worth 9 million a year.

That is like:


$450k per sack with 20 sacks.

$562.5k per game.

$18,750 per minute based on playing 30 minutes per game.


Sorry, but I do not see that kind of money for ANY player.

[claymore]

I don't think he's bitter. He just tends to try and demean anyone who doesn't agree with his opinion. Wilson was a great front 7 player for us, and only time will tell which player was better. Wilson's career is over, and Doom's just getting into full swing. Right now I would have to give big Al the edge as well, but without being rude about it.

Ive never seen that from JDL's posts. I see it from you on a regular basis though.

[getlynched47]

Hopefully before March 5th the deal gets done. Let's keep our fingers crossed :salute:

[BigSarge87]

Sweet

[Nickademus]

Debbie Downer Here.

I do not see any block buster deals cut without a new CBA in place, there is absolutely no need to do so. Other than be a good guy.

It makes NO business sense to pay someone 8 mil year if you can have him for 3+. Unless he gives us one hell of a home town discount.

The worst thing that happens is he is a RFA @ 3 mil and we match any deal that he is offered or we get a #1 and #3 for the privilege of him having played here.

this.

[SOCALORADO.]

Prosecutors say Dumervil secretly recorded phone call after Williams murder
Posted by Mike Florio on February 25, 2010 3:33 PM ET
Possibly taking a cue from his former coach's propensity to use a polygraph, Broncos linebacker Elvis Dumervil secretly recorded a telephone conversation with a key witness in the Darrent Williams murder case.

And his decision to make the tape could end up providing a key link in the chain of evidence that delivers a conviction of Willie Clark.

The revelation was made today by prosecutors who were questioning Shaniqua Dunn, according to 9news.com in Denver, the local NBC affiliate. Dunn said that she could not recall what she had previously told authorities. So then she was reminded of things she said to Dumervil during the conversation he recorded.

In the conversation, Dunn said she overheard defensive Willie Clark ask Dunn's boyfriend at the time for a "burner."

Though the out-of-court statement technically is hearsay, Dunn's testimony regarding her failure of memory undoubtedly allowed the tape to be used.

Per the Denver Post, Dumervil later testified regarding the making of the tape.

"[Dunn] called me and started talking about it," Dumervil said. "It was obviously fresh, so what she said could be valuable so I just started recording it. In the long run it could help some way, some how."

And it has indeed helped. But not from Clark's perspective.

UPDATE: Some of you have asked whether Dumervil's taping of the call potentially violates the law. Assuming the call was placed and received in Colorado, the call may be recorded if one party to the conversation consents. Some states require both parties to consent. Here's a link to the state-by-state laws on this point.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/25/prosecutors-say-dumervil-secretly-recorded-phone-call-after-williams-murder/

Never let a guy with skills at secret recording get away..... Never.

[EMB6903]

yeah 3 years...

Al Wilson says hi (Doom is good but NOWHERE near Wilson's level... Wilson carried the defense...Doom just rushes the passer.)

ahh al wilson...a dynamic hitter...that's still learning on how to wrap up...

as for dumervil it's great news. Re signing one of the best pass rushers in the game obviously isn't a bad move. I'm just hoping he's not getting suggs/ware type money.

[dogfish]

Prosecutors say Dumervil secretly recorded phone call after Williams murder
Posted by Mike Florio on February 25, 2010 3:33 PM ET
Possibly taking a cue from his former coach's propensity to use a polygraph, Broncos linebacker Elvis Dumervil secretly recorded a telephone conversation with a key witness in the Darrent Williams murder case.

And his decision to make the tape could end up providing a key link in the chain of evidence that delivers a conviction of Willie Clark.

The revelation was made today by prosecutors who were questioning Shaniqua Dunn, according to 9news.com in Denver, the local NBC affiliate. Dunn said that she could not recall what she had previously told authorities. So then she was reminded of things she said to Dumervil during the conversation he recorded.

In the conversation, Dunn said she overheard defensive Willie Clark ask Dunn's boyfriend at the time for a "burner."

Though the out-of-court statement technically is hearsay, Dunn's testimony regarding her failure of memory undoubtedly allowed the tape to be used.

Per the Denver Post, Dumervil later testified regarding the making of the tape.

"[Dunn] called me and started talking about it," Dumervil said. "It was obviously fresh, so what she said could be valuable so I just started recording it. In the long run it could help some way, some how."

And it has indeed helped. But not from Clark's perspective.

UPDATE: Some of you have asked whether Dumervil's taping of the call potentially violates the law. Assuming the call was placed and received in Colorado, the call may be recorded if one party to the conversation consents. Some states require both parties to consent. Here's a link to the state-by-state laws on this point.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/25/prosecutors-say-dumervil-secretly-recorded-phone-call-after-williams-murder/

Never let a guy with skills at secret recording get away..... Never.

now that's cool. . .


just shows ya that he's a smart guy who pays attention to detail. . .

hope it helps!

[getlynched47]

So............where the hell is this contract extension?

It would suck to have all of our restricted free agents hold out. Not good.

[CoachChaz]

So............where the hell is this contract extension?

It would suck to have all of our restricted free agents hold out. Not good.

Let's not pretend Denver is the ONLY team not handing out extensions at the moment.

[TXBRONC]

Let's not pretend Denver is the ONLY team not handing out extensions at the moment.

There was nothing in what Lynch said that would indicate Denver is ONLY team not handing out extensions at the moment. Besides that who gives a damn about what the 31 other teams are doing it only matters what Denver is doing.

[CoachChaz]

There was nothing in what Lynch said that would indicate Denver is ONLY team not handing out extensions at the moment. Besides that who gives a damn about what the 31 other teams are doing it only matters what Denver is doing.

Since hatred is obviously assumed here...let me explain.

My point is that NO teams are handing out extensions right now based on the lack of a CBA. it would not be the smartest move for ANY team to hand out any guaranteed money or large, long term contracts to RFA's. Denver isnt the only team being cautious right now and I'm glad they are. yes, it sucks for the players, but it's not the teams they need to be upset with...or their head coaches (as OUR fans will undoubtedly blame OUR coach)...it's the state of economics in the NFL.

[Dean]

Write a clause into the contract to cover the possible situations that may occur next year.

[CoachChaz]

Write a clause into the contract to cover the possible situations that may occur next year.

Would you sign something like that? Agents are already telling their RFA's to skip all OTA's...do you really think they'd advise them to sign contracts that add even more escape clauses for the teams? If a team came to me with something like that, I'd tell them to shove it up their ass...and I expect most agents and players would do the same.

[pnbronco]

Since hatred is obviously assumed here...let me explain.

My point is that NO teams are handing out extensions right now based on the lack of a CBA. it would not be the smartest move for ANY team to hand out any guaranteed money or large, long term contracts to RFA's. Denver isnt the only team being cautious right now and I'm glad they are. yes, it sucks for the players, but it's not the teams they need to be upset with...or their head coaches (as OUR fans will undoubtedly blame OUR coach)...it's the state of economics in the NFL.

Nice post Coach. It's not just the state of economics in the NFL, the last 18 months have been rough in general. Until last week I was not sure if I could keep my business going. My husband could get laid off in 2 weeks on a job that he's been very, very good at for 15 years.

If that happens our financial support for the NFL goes to 0. When a person has to choose things like food, heat and health ins spending money on entertainment is going to go way down. The owners are business men and can see what's going on with this economy.

[T.K.O.]

Nice post Coach. It's not just the state of economics in the NFL, the last 18 months have been rough in general. Until last week I was not sure if I could keep my business going. My husband could get laid off in 2 weeks on a job that he's been very, very good at for 15 years.

If that happens our financial support for the NFL goes to 0. When a person has to choose things like food, heat and health ins spending money on entertainment is going to go way down. The owners are business men and can see what's going on with this economy.

like i said before watching the nflpa and the owners fight about millions of dollars is like watching 2 spoiled kids fighting about who gets the porche and who gets the ferreri,while the rest of us (the people who paid for the cars) are waitin' for the bus !

[CoachChaz]

like i said before watching the nflpa and the owners fight about millions of dollars is like watching 2 spoiled kids fighting about who gets the porche and who gets the ferreri,while the rest of us (the people who paid for the cars) are waitin' for the bus !

Awesome analogy

[rationalfan]

what irks me about this uncapped/CBA situation is hearing players act like they're being cheated out of free agency while ignoring the fact that their players union is just as responsible for this as anyone else.

[pnbronco]

like i said before watching the nflpa and the owners fight about millions of dollars is like watching 2 spoiled kids fighting about who gets the porche and who gets the ferreri,while the rest of us (the people who paid for the cars) are waitin' for the bus !

That is a great way to put it. All I can say is if they fight too much they could kill the goose that's laying these golden eggs. Seeing them fight makes me think I'm spending my hard EARNED money on what????