This season big test for controlling Shanahan

[claymore]

This season big test for controlling Shanahan
By Mike Sando
ESPN.com
Updated: March 15, 2008

Mike Shanahan is no longer ahead of his time.

Once a trailblazer among NFL coaches seeking to control all aspects of football operations, the Denver Broncos' leading power broker now stands among a shrinking minority in his profession.

The New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles and Minnesota Vikings also operate under the coach-as-dictator model, or close to it.

But numerous others have abandoned the approach, usually for good reason. While the arrangement has served the Patriots well, the Broncos must win in 2008 for Shanahan to regain credibility as executive vice president. His teams are 1-4 in playoff games since Denver claimed a second consecutive Super Bowl title nine years ago.

Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan (left) and former GM Ted Sundquist no longer are working together in Denver.

The Broncos finished 13-3 in 2005, 9-7 in 2006 and 7-9 last season. Meanwhile, Shanahan's penchant for shuffling defensive coordinators and his firing of general manager Ted Sundquist have refocused attention on the coach's sweeping executive powers. The subject merits examination, but with a young staff and a promising quarterback in Jay Cutler, the organizational overhaul can wait.

More than anything, the Broncos need Shanahan's best coaching job in 2008.

Top offensive assistants Gary Kubiak and Mike Heimerdinger are gone. Quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates, 31, has added passing-game coordinator to his title this offseason. Bates might qualify as an ascending young coach, but Shanahan can't leave anything to chance this season. The Broncos' success hinges on whether Cutler, 24, realizes what NFL scouts widely regard as massive potential.

Cutler has 29 touchdown passes in his first 21 regular-season games. He was the NFL's No. 12 passer with an 88.1 rating last season. Primary receiver Brandon Marshall, still only 23, finished with 102 catches for 1,325 yards.

An organization can build around that level of production from young players in those positions.

However, the Broncos need to get younger on defense through the draft, and they need Shanahan to assume the primary role in helping Cutler take the next step. They need Shanahan's coaching more than his "executive vice presidenting."

Teams hire coaches to coach. They generally put coaches in charge of personnel only when a hot candidate possesses sufficient leverage to broker such an arrangement.

Shanahan declined the Broncos' first attempt to hire him away from the San Francisco 49ers in 1993. The 49ers won a Super Bowl the following season with Shanahan as offensive coordinator. When the Broncos finally landed Shanahan in 1995, they gave him a level of control few other coaches had enjoyed.

The model worked when Bill Walsh was picking the players for the 49ers. Bill Belichick has made it work for the Patriots, in part because he trusts vice president Scott Pioli.

Others have come to regret the arrangement, and the Broncos might be close to joining them.

Coaches Jimmy Johnson, Dave Wannstedt and Nick Saban combined to win three playoff games in 11 seasons while running the Miami Dolphins.

Dan Reeves enjoyed one spectacular season and four losing ones during a six-year run atop the Atlanta Falcons.

Bill Parcells won one playoff game while overseeing the New York Jets.

The Seattle Seahawks failed to win a playoff game under Mike Holmgren until he was forced to share control over personnel.

The 49ers have reduced Mike Nolan's powers this offseason, promoting Scot McCloughan to general manager.

Tom Coughlin succeeded as the main man with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but he won a championship only after three humbling seasons with the New York Giants.

Anyone who has surveyed Shanahan's prolific team-issued bio knows humbling will not come easy, for "every successful team has one key leader, and those organizations that have achieved the greatest success have an ultimate leader -- an individual combining exceptional talent and organizational skills with the dynamic drive to lead others to success."

There's more: "When the success of a leader is achieved, and repeated, in an atmosphere of great pressure and expectations, that leader is elevated to elite status."

Indeed, Shanahan's teams have averaged 10 victories per season since 1995, including 9.8 over the past five. But the Broncos' roster features only a dozen players drafted by the organization, a league-low figure and half the average of the other 31 teams. There is nothing elite about that.

And the model Shanahan followed to consecutive Super Bowl victories in the late 1990s is no longer available to him.

While Shanahan found Terrell Davis, Trevor Pryce, John Mobley and Dan Neil in the draft, his championship teams featured key holdovers from previous regimes, notably John Elway, Shannon Sharpe, Steve Atwater and Tom Nalen. Shanahan also landed a long list of productive players through other means: Ed McCaffrey, Bill Romanowski, Harry Swayne, Neil Smith, Maa Tanuvasa, Darrien Gordon, Glenn Cadrez, Howard Griffith and Mark Schlereth.

Free agency has become less helpful now that more teams are re-signing key players before they can test the market. The Broncos must get better the old-fashioned way.

The franchise quarterback appears to be in place. More than ever, it's time for Shanahan to coach him up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3293868

[Bronco9798]

Good read. I agree though, this is a pretty big year for Shanny and the Broncos!! This will be a huge for Cutler as well. I have good feelings though. I think we'll do better than what some expect.

[BroncoJoe]

Shanahan power shift tries to protect destiny
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post

Fittingly, in this time of uncertainty, Broncos headquarters sits at the corner of crossroads.

Lurking on the building's top floor, Mike Shanahan remains in complete control, although the perception is he is becoming increasingly alone.

Shanahan, the head coach of the team and executive vice president of the organization, is on his third offensive coordinator in a little more than three years, third defensive coordinator in three seasons, and announced, through a statement Wednesday night, that three people would divvy up the general manager responsibilities after he dismissed Ted Sundquist.

Maybe it's true. It can get lonely at the top.

The Broncos were upset at home in their final regular-season game of 2006 to miss the playoffs and failed to reach them again in 2007 after finishing 7-9. This two-year slump, which followed three consecutive seasons of playoff appearances, has evoked pleas for Shanahan to surrender some power, delegate some authority and share in the responsibilities of building a legitimate Super Bowl contender.
Shanahan's DNA is not configured that way. If there is a crisis at Dove Valley, Shanahan assumes greater control — as if delegating got him in this mess.

"That might be his way of addressing a problem and fixing it," said Mark Schlereth, who was Shanahan's left guard on the Broncos' only two Super Bowl championship teams in 1997-98. "But I guess I would equate it to government. You need a system of checks and balances. You need good healthy debate and argument."

Many of the nicer offices at Dove Valley are becoming populated with ghosts. Pat Bowlen, the Broncos' owner who was attending league meetings Thursday in Florida, and Shana-han have provided stability at the very top. But there have been boxes of family photo frames coming in and out of the offices down the hall.

It should be noted coordinator turnover happens everywhere. In New England, Bill Belichick has lost several of his best assistants in recent years to head coaching jobs elsewhere, as Shanahan did with the departure of Gary Kubiak to Houston.

The stir within the industry, though, became more pronounced when Sundquist was fired. Any time a coach fires a general manager, there is going to be reaction.

"I know in the GM community, Ted's going to be missed," Cleveland GM Phil Savage said. "He's a guy that was easy to work with. We did a number of trades with Denver. I don't know if any of them worked out for either side, but they seemed fair at the time. Ted's a good person and has a lot of character, and you felt like he was a guy you could trust in the business."

The tension between Shanahan and Sundquist, however, was becoming increasingly palpable throughout the organization, let alone on the top floor. Shanahan ultimately felt the friction was detrimental to the team's ability to conduct business. Not that this strain was Sundquist's fault. But the strain had to be alleviated.

There is no "him" or "me" at Broncos headquarters. At least the Broncos have a leader who leads with confidence. Some of Shanahan's confidence comes through experience in crisis management.

For if the Broncos and Shanahan are at a crossroads, they have been there before. After their second Super Bowl in 1998, Shanahan made the unpopular decision of taking the quarterback job away from veteran Bubby Brister and giving it to the kid, Brian Griese. Shanahan then released defensive captain Steve Atwater and special-teams captain Keith Burns.

It should sound eerily similar to the Broncos' current plight. In 2006, Shanahan made the controversial quarterback switch of replacing veteran Jake Plummer with the kid, Jay Cutler. After that season, he released defensive captain Al Wilson and, once again, special-teams captain Keith Burns, only this time into retirement and coaching.

The Broncos went 6-10 in 1999 but rebounded to go 11-5 in 2000. Shanahan has been widely criticized before and remains here to take some more.

"Are there similarities? Certainly," Schlereth said. "Is there a chance the Denver Broncos can be very good and much improved this season? I think so. There are some signs that point in that direction. No. 1, the Broncos haven't tried to fix their problems by throwing a bunch of money at overpriced, average old players. I think that's a big positive. And I think you have some incredibly gifted young players."

Whatever happens, it's going to be Shanahan's way. It's worked before.

[Rex]

I wouldnt exactly consider Heimerdinger a huge loss.

[BeefStew25]

We need some 28 year old Harvard grad as our GM.

[Rex]

We need some 28 year old Harvard grad as our GM.

Or Boss.:coffee:

[claymore]

I wouldnt exactly consider Heimerdinger a huge loss.
We should trade all the picks we can with Tennessee for next year. With Dingers pass orientated offense, and VY behind center they are going to suck.

[Bronco9798]

We should trade all the picks we can with Tennessee for next year. With Dingers pass orientated offense, and VY behind center they are going to suck.

Shhh,,the VY supporters will be coming out.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Shhh,,the VY supporters will be coming out.

I think this video settles the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cYiEraSO6M

[Hobe]

Oh come on. Dave Wannstedt and Nick Saban have not succeeded anywhere. Reeves basically had most of what Shany had and failed. Belichick cheated. Parcells, Holmgren and Johnson won Super Bowls as coaches, not GMs, too. He forgot about the Mike Sherman in Green Bay, but I guess that is understandable. Even Welsh in SF was only the coach when he won the 4 SBs and he had Montana for all of them. Joe Gibbs as coach won three SBs with different QBs, but essentially the same teams.

No one that I can think of has won multiple SBs over a span of several years with different players as both GM and Head Coach. If Shany does it he will be the first.

How about lighting up a little guys?

[Lonestar]

Good find for Claymore and Bronco Joe.

While I have never much cared for klis it seems he is not the only one to have noticed..

What the CLE GM mentioned was huge IMO

I know in the GM community, Ted's going to be missed," Cleveland GM Phil Savage said. "He's a guy that was easy to work with. We did a number of trades with Denver. I don't know if any of them worked out for either side, but they seemed fair at the time. Ted's a good person and has a lot of character, and you felt like he was a guy you could trust in the business."

I read that as how many folks are going to really want to do business with mikey? Because they can't trust him!.

Also did I read that Pat has been out of town attending NFL meetings? While I'm sure mikey conferred with him before firing Ted, but the timing feels funny.

On Ted's way home for dinner, he gets a come on in sit down and BTW your fired... All while the owner is out of town..

I've been an advocate of Ted leaving for a long time I'm not so sure this DIY GM stuff is going to work all that much better, other than saving a salary, (that they probably have to pay anyway since he was under contract) may be the savings in expense account will make the difference..

I'm praying that we get our 3rd real draft in a row.. Instead of what I think will happen without any checks and balance we have had the past two years..

[TXBRONC]

Good find for Claymore and Bronco Joe.

While I have never much cared for klis it seems he is not the only one to have noticed..

What the CLE GM mentioned was huge IMO

I know in the GM community, Ted's going to be missed," Cleveland GM Phil Savage said. "He's a guy that was easy to work with. We did a number of trades with Denver. I don't know if any of them worked out for either side, but they seemed fair at the time. Ted's a good person and has a lot of character, and you felt like he was a guy you could trust in the business."

I read that as how many folks are going to really want to do business with mikey? Because they can't trust him!.

Also did I read that Pat has been out of town attending NFL meetings? While I'm sure mikey conferred with him before firing Ted, but the timing feels funny.

On Ted's way home for dinner, he gets a come on in sit down and BTW your fired... All while the owner is out of town..

I've been an advocate of Ted leaving for a long time I'm not so sure this DIY GM stuff is going to work all that much better, other than saving a salary, (that they probably have to pay anyway since he was under contract) may be the savings in expense account will make the difference..

I'm praying that we get our 3rd real draft in a row.. Instead of what I think will happen without any checks and balance we have had the past two years..

That is what you want to read into it. You despise Shanahan therefore you going read it as a some kind of cryptic message that the other 31 teams in League think Shanahan is liar which is ridiculous. Part of Sundquist's job was to be the point man trades so guess what? Other team's GMs would talk with him when it came personnel talks. :coffee:

[broncosfanscott]

Good read. I agree though, this is a pretty big year for Shanny and the Broncos!! This will be a huge for Cutler as well. I have good feelings though. I think we'll do better than what some expect.


Pretty much. Shanahan being the coach and Executive VP is a dying breed and if things don't pan out over the next couple of seasons, I wouldn't be surprised if Shanny is just the HC. Bowlen trusts Shanahan so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[tubby]

The Mastermind will rise again. :salute:

[Lonestar]

That is what you want to read into it. You despise Shanahan therefore you going read it as a some kind of cryptic message that the other 31 teams in League think Shanahan is liar which is ridiculous. Part of Sundquist's job was to be the point man trades so guess what? Other team's GMs would talk with him when it came personnel talks. :coffee:

You keep spouting this nonsense I despise mikey, that is far from the truth... I think he is one of the finest offensive minds in the game today..

BUT

I do not like what he has done to this team.. His personnel decisions over the past 13 years has been not good.. Over that past 6-7 really bad.. (Outside of the last two drafts)..

That is born out in the winning records of the past couple of years in particular and the Broncos drafting ratings since about 2001.

Just because I have been a critic of his dismal DAFTING record the since I've been involved with any Bronco forum you and a few other have bad mouthed me forever..

He is a good coach and had he gotten himself better talent over those years we would have had IMO better seasons than we had.

Some want to place the personnel matters in Ted's back pocket. There is not one sane person that can believe that mikey did not sign off on each and every trade, draft choice or FA acquisitions.. For that matter cutting players and negotiating contracts also...

Ted did not make those decisions by himself..

Pats statement that things are going to change away from mikeys past history of building the team via FA, to building through the draft and acquiring moderately priced FA's, also proves my contention that mikeys has screwed the pooch once to many times..

What this team has needed for a long time is a true professional GM that is what I have been saying all the time..


So knock off the I hate mike crap.. it gets old..

[G_Money]

I know in the GM community, Ted's going to be missed," Cleveland GM Phil Savage said. "He's a guy that was easy to work with. We did a number of trades with Denver. I don't know if any of them worked out for either side, but they seemed fair at the time. Ted's a good person and has a lot of character, and you felt like he was a guy you could trust in the business."

This is actually a knock on Ted.

In GM-speak, this means "We were really comfortable making trades with Ted, because he wasn't the sort of guy who knew something you didn't. All those trades were 'fair' meaning I was never gonna get burned by giving up greatness for crap. It was always equitable or in my favor."

That's a good reason for Ted to be gone. He wasn't the fleecing sort. He never had more knowledge than the guy he was dealing with.

Shanny's not exactly a great horse-trader either, but if Ted wasn't helping Shanny be better, then he's not doing his job.

Getting a guy with better personnel judgment in the role would be helpful.

~G

[Brand]

There have been some pretty fair "fleeching's" of the Redskins, and I think the Walker trade was a coup, even though it didn't pan out beyond one year....

No one person makes all the trades, nor do they do all the talking. I expect Goodman will be the point on some things while Shanahan will be on others. It would be entirely speculative for me to try and guess what Sundquist and Shanahan had in a working relationship. It has not been announced exactly why Sundquist was let go, and I don't expect we will find out for a couple of years.....

People can write anything they want about any public figure as long as it isn't libelous or mean. But the future is hard to predict unless you make it yourself. I think Shanahan and the FO are trying to do that by looking at players and keeping the costs for this year in reason so that they can keep the core group in future years.

I am not a judge to decide whether Shanahan is doing a good job as a GM or not. I can say that some of the hoped for results were not forthcoming on the expenditures of time and money on other coaching and/or players over the last couple of years. Maybe things are different. Maybe Bowlen told mike to fire Sundquist. How do you know otherwise?

Just relax and enjoy the ride. It could be awesome. A move up to 10 and 6 is not out of the question, and maybe more. We are spectators of a changing, dynamic theatre. Get the popcorn and watch the fun unfold.

Jeepers. Relax.

[Lonestar]

There have been few if any folks that have left the broncos that have had praised mikey.

In fact there have been scores that have been down right ugly..

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck..:salute:

One person with so much power leads to problems, no checks and balances..

I think Pat has finally figured it out..

[G_Money]

It still looks like this to me:

Bowlen: So, Mike...what's going on with the offense?

Mike: That fool Heimerdinger is screwing it up.

B: Okay...so we should let him go to the Titans then.

Mike: Yeah.

B: Great - you're back in charge of the offense. You don't need anybody else as a puppet. Now nobody can screw it up for you, right?

Mike:...right...

B: And the defense?

Mike: Bates, obviously - thanks for foisting that loser on me.

B: So you want your guy put in charge of it? Done. It's on his head - and yours - now.

Mike: ...good...

B: You know we have the worst percentage of our own draftees still on the roster in the league, right?

Mike: Yeah, but that's because Sundquist is the world's worst talent evaluator. And now he's sulking because I'm promoting other people to be ready to take his place.

B: Okay, well then why don't we drop Ted now so all your guys are in position for the draft. After all, I'd hate for you to be responsible for the choices of someone you don't agree with.

Mike: ...yeah, me too...

B: So - you're in charge of the offense completely. And the draft, completely. And your hand-picked man with your preferred scheme is running the defense. That puts us - and you - pretty much out of excuses over the next, say, two years, doesn't it?

Mike: It sure does.

B: Glad to hear it Mike - go make it happen, buddy.

*clock on the wall starts ticking down from 700 days to judgment...*

~G

[powderaddict]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck..:salute:



Everywhere Shanahan has gone (barring Oakland, but we all know that story), Shanahan has had almost unparalleled success.

I'd call that "duck" a successful coach :salute:

If anything, he’s a victim of his own success. He has us Bronco fans so spoiled, that when the inevitable “valleys” occur, that many fans point the fingers straight at him.

Shanahan is not perfect, but he’s as good as any coach out there, and better than any available coach out there.

[G_Money]

Shanahan is not perfect, but he’s as good as any coach out there, and better than any available coach out there.

Unfortunately, he's a sucky GM, or at best mediocre.

Shanny the GM is shooting Shanny the coach in the foot.

This draft is all Shanahan now - no more deflection onto Ted. We'll see if he pulls through with it and has better men around him now to help him in his decisions, or if he's gonna lose his GM tag (or be coaching another team) in a couple of years.

Either way, it's obvious he wants to go down swinging, as he's a charter member of Sinatra's I Did It My Way clubhouse.

Here's hoping he knocks it out of the park.

~G

[powderaddict]

Unfortunately, he's a sucky GM, or at best mediocre.

Shanny the GM is shooting Shanny the coach in the foot.

This draft is all Shanahan now - no more deflection onto Ted. We'll see if he pulls through with it and has better men around him now to help him in his decisions, or if he's gonna lose his GM tag (or be coaching another team) in a couple of years.

Either way, it's obvious he wants to go down swinging, as he's a charter member of Sinatra's I Did It My Way clubhouse.

Here's hoping he knocks it out of the park.

~G

I would agree that up untill 2004 the drafts were godaweful, and I would agree that that is why the Broncos are having the struggles they have had over the last 2 years.

However, since 2005 the drafts have been much, much better. I hope that trend continues, if it does then the Broncos will be a force in the AFC once again.

[G_Money]

2005 - no starters. 3 cornerbacks, two of whom are currently backups, on tailback who's in jail now, a backup OL and a released punter. One tragic death, but people were already calling for D-Will's replacement as a starter at the time of that tragic shooting, possibly by Foxy.

2006 - FIVE full- or part-time starters. Incredible draft. QB of the future, pass-catching TE, pass-rusher, starting guard, and 100-catch wideout. Also got Javon Walker in a trade. Ridiculously good draft by anyone's standards.

2007 - starters, but no current success stories. The most you can say about the performance of these players is that they haven't flopped yet - and that DL is a position that takes some time to figure out, usually. Crowder, Moss and Thomas weren't able to stop the ridiculous sieve that was the Broncos DL. They have much more to show next year. And our OL pick has had back issues, but is up for a starting job this pre-season. Too early to tell, or to count it in the "good" or "bad" columns. Incomplete.

So we got a couple of roleplayers out of the 05 draft, a bushel-full of talent in the 06 draft, and some guys who haven't failed yet - or succeeded either - in the 07 draft.

That's not yet a trend, IMO. That's one GREAT year, where we nailed the draft we absolutely needed to nail, and a couple of drafts that aren't total losses at this point (but the 05 draft is getting close, with Foxy nearly gone and Paymah just a nickel back).

However, I'd love for another great draft this year to help shift my opinion. :)

~G

[Lonestar]

2005 - no starters. 3 cornerbacks, two of whom are currently backups, on tailback who's in jail now, a backup OL and a released punter. One tragic death, but people were already calling for D-Will's replacement as a starter at the time of that tragic shooting, possibly by Foxy.

2006 - FIVE full- or part-time starters. Incredible draft. QB of the future, pass-catching TE, pass-rusher, starting guard, and 100-catch wideout. Also got Javon Walker in a trade. Ridiculously good draft by anyone's standards.

2007 - starters, but no current success stories. The most you can say about the performance of these players is that they haven't flopped yet - and that DL is a position that takes some time to figure out, usually. Crowder, Moss and Thomas weren't able to stop the ridiculous sieve that was the Broncos DL. They have much more to show next year. And our OL pick has had back issues, but is up for a starting job this pre-season. Too early to tell, or to count it in the "good" or "bad" columns. Incomplete.

So we got a couple of roleplayers out of the 05 draft, a bushel-full of talent in the 06 draft, and some guys who haven't failed yet - or succeeded either - in the 07 draft.

That's not yet a trend, IMO. That's one GREAT year, where we nailed the draft we absolutely needed to nail, and a couple of drafts that aren't total losses at this point (but the 05 draft is getting close, with Foxy nearly gone and Paymah just a nickel back).

However, I'd love for another great draft this year to help shift my opinion. :)

~G

Thats pretty much what I have been saying for ever on mania..

But there are way to many folks out there whining about if mikey looses the GM position he will leave..

I say do not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out if that is your stance..

If you hire a talented GM and give him a laundry list of what you need what is your worry. That he might be a better judge of talent or character than mikey is.. Well IMO that would not be real hard to do..

What do you have to lose some EGO..

[lex]

That piece has the fingerprints of a masshole all over it.

[fcspikeit]

Thats pretty much what I have been saying for ever on mania..

But there are way to many folks out there whining about if mikey looses the GM position he will leave..

I say do not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out if that is your stance..

If you hire a talented GM and give him a laundry list of what you need what is your worry. That he might be a better judge of talent or character than mikey is.. Well IMO that would not be real hard to do..

What do you have to lose some EGO..

It's even worse now that we're signing Mikey's would be bust's in FA...

IMO, this is the last chance for Mikey the GM. From what I have seen from Mikey the GM up until now, I would say there are 3 or 4 members here on this board that would be a better GM then Shanahan..

Don't believe me? Go back and look at some of the prospect's some of our members have wanted instead of who Shanahan chose... I know this is a new forum, but most all our members came from other boards...


Just in case you were wondering, I Ain't counting myself as one of the 3 or 4..

I honestly believe some of our members, put more time into scouting players then Shanahan does and their not getting paid to do it. They would jump at the chance to talk to the prospects... Unlike Shanahan...

[Retired_Member_001]

It's even worse now that we're signing Mikey's would be bust's in FA...

IMO, this is the last chance for Mikey the GM. From what I have seen from Mikey the GM up until now, I would say there are 3 or 4 members here on this board that would be a better GM then Shanahan..

Don't believe me? Go back and look at some of the prospect's some of our members have wanted instead of who Shanahan chose... I know this is a new forum, but most all our members came from other boards...


Just in case you were wondering, I Ain't counting myself as one of the 3 or 4..

I honestly believe some of our members, put more time into scouting players then Shanahan does and their not getting paid to do it. They would jump at the chance to talk to the prospects... Unlike Shanahan...

G Money being one of the 3 or 4.

We need you to be our GM, G!

[Lonestar]

It's even worse now that we're signing Mikey's would be bust's in FA...

IMO, this is the last chance for Mikey the GM. From what I have seen from Mikey the GM up until now, I would say there are 3 or 4 members here on this board that would be a better GM then Shanahan..

Don't believe me? Go back and look at some of the prospect's some of our members have wanted instead of who Shanahan chose... I know this is a new forum, but most all our members came from other boards...


Just in case you were wondering, I Ain't counting myself as one of the 3 or 4..

I honestly believe some of our members, put more time into scouting players then Shanahan does and their not getting paid to do it. They would jump at the chance to talk to the prospects... Unlike Shanahan...

Well several of them went tot eh senior bowl ans would have went to the scouting combine if they could have gotten IN..

Yet If I remember correctly most if not all the HEAD coaches were there except mikey.

[Npba900]

It still looks like this to me:

Bowlen: So, Mike...what's going on with the offense?


Mike: That fool Heimerdinger is screwing it up.

B: Okay...so we should let him go to the Titans then.

Mike: Yeah.

B: Great - you're back in charge of the offense. You don't need anybody else as a puppet. Now nobody can screw it up for you, right?

Mike:...right...

B: And the defense?

Mike: Bates, obviously - thanks for foisting that loser on me.

B: So you want your guy put in charge of it? Done. It's on his head - and yours - now.

Mike: ...good...

B: You know we have the worst percentage of our own draftees still on the roster in the league, right?

Mike: Yeah, but that's because Sundquist is the world's worst talent evaluator. And now he's sulking because I'm promoting other people to be ready to take his place.

B: Okay, well then why don't we drop Ted now so all your guys are in position for the draft. After all, I'd hate for you to be responsible for the choices of someone you don't agree with.

Mike: ...yeah, me too...

B: So - you're in charge of the offense completely. And the draft, completely. And your hand-picked man with your preferred scheme is running the defense. That puts us - and you - pretty much out of excuses over the next, say, two years, doesn't it?

Mike: It sure does.

B: Glad to hear it Mike - go make it happen, buddy.

*clock on the wall starts ticking down from 700 days to judgment...*

~G

Whew G Money.......you took no prisoners on this one. On thing is for sure, Shanny will definitely need to go back thru his notes, films, and memories from 93-01 and learn how to come up with a decent and consistent offensive attack schemes from week to week. I think Bowlen has Shanahan on a two year lease!!! Coach Shanahan needs to make decent progress in 2008 with 9-7 season, make the playoffs in 2009 and win at least one playoff game 11-5 or 12-4, and in 2010 go deep into the playoff win the AFC West 13-3 or better and/or loose or win the Super Bowl.

I think Mike lost some of his mastermind mojo, screwing around with Jake Plummer by having to dumb down the offense b/c Jake couldn't make all the throws, and of course Griese didn't have the heart. Shanahan lost at least 6 or 7 years of mojo messing around with both Griese and Plummer.

Also, let's be brutally honest here as well, last season, Shanahan went with a rather rookie QB and endured a rash of injuries at key veteran positions and still managed to win 7 games. The 2005, 2006, and 2007 drafts have been really good. Loosing Darrent Williams from the 2005 draft class really set Denver back talent wise and emotionally. Hopefully, Shanahan will try and triplicate his third consecutive excellent draft.

As for FA, I believe Shanahan ran into a bit of a generation gap over the last 6 or 7 years, b/c the players have changed in terms of how bad they want to perform and win after getting the big bucks.

Whereas, back in the middle 90's (95-98), the veteran FA players Shanahan brought in were throw backs to a different era. These players were from the middle and late 80's and 90's, and they took more pride in how they performed and were more team oriented players than the players over the last 8 years.

These aren't excuses its the reality, however, in the end, Shanahan is paid the big bucks to spot talent in FA. Coach Shanahan needs to remain disciplined enough not sign any high priced FA in 2009 and 2010. At least 2008 is a good start......Denver did not sign any high price FA.

Shanahan ultimately convinces Bowlen to open up his wallet to bring in these high priced FA. Example, last year with the signing of Bly, Graham, and Henry. Let's not forget that many Freaksters and Bronco Forum members were really excited last year with those signings.

Also, let's not kid ourselves here, The last group of Denver's RB's from 1999-2008, have not been good enough to even beat Green Bay in the Super Bowl back in 1997. Shanahan needs to draft on the first day, the RB that closely resembles TD's upside and capability with their 1st pick.

Denver also needs to try and find the next Howard Griffin by getting one of those mammoth agile athletic lead blocking 250 pound plus FB with our 4th or 5th pick. So Jon Stewart, Mendenhall and or Cox, Caulcrick or Schmitt need to become Broncos. After all, TD played like a first round pick and first ballot HOF inductee for 3 consecutive years before his career ending injury in 1999.

Just keep drafting baby! And allow Bowlen (He's really pissed;)) to recoup some of his lost millions by staying away from signing high priced FA for at least two consecutive years.

Good Luck Coach.......you have a 50/50 chance of pulling this off!

[Lonestar]

Whew G Money.......you took no prisoners on this one. On thing is for sure, Shanny will definitely need to go back thru his notes, films, and memories from 93-01 and learn how to come up with a decent and consistent offensive attack schemes from week to week. I think Bowlen has Shanahan on a two year lease!!! Coach Shanahan needs to make decent progress in 2008 with 9-7 season, make the playoffs in 2009 and win at least one playoff game 11-5 or 12-4, and in 2010 go deep into the playoff win the AFC West 13-3 or better and/or loose or win the Super Bowl.

I think Mike lost some of his mastermind mojo, screwing around with Jake Plummer by having to dumb down the offense b/c Jake couldn't make all the throws, and of course Griese didn't have the heart. Shanahan lost at least 6 or 7 years of mojo messing around with both Griese and Plummer.

Also, let's be brutally honest here as well, last season, Shanahan went with a rather rookie QB and endured a rash of injuries at key veteran positions and still managed to win 7 games. The 2005, 2006, and 2007 drafts have been really good. Loosing Darrent Williams from the 2005 draft class really set Denver back talent wise and emotionally. Hopefully, Shanahan will try and triplicate his third consecutive excellent draft.

As for FA, I believe Shanahan ran into a bit of a generation gap over the last 6 or 7 years, b/c the players have changed in terms of how bad they want to perform and win after getting the big bucks.

Whereas, back in the middle 90's (95-98), the veteran FA players Shanahan brought in were throw backs to a different era. These players were from the middle and late 80's and 90's, and they took more pride in how they performed and were more team oriented players than the players over the last 8 years.

These aren't excuses its the reality, however, in the end, Shanahan is paid the big bucks to spot talent in FA. Coach Shanahan needs to remain disciplined enough not sign any high priced FA in 2009 and 2010. At least 2008 is a good start......Denver did not sign any high price FA.

Shanahan ultimately convinces Bowlen to open up his wallet to bring in these high priced FA. Example, last year with the signing of Bly, Graham, and Henry. Let's not forget that many Freaksters and Bronco Forum members were really excited last year with those signings.

Also, let's not kid ourselves here, The last group of Denver's RB's from 1999-2008, have not been good enough to even beat Green Bay in the Super Bowl back in 1997. Shanahan needs to draft on the first day, the RB that closely resembles TD's upside and capability with their 1st pick.

Denver also needs to try and find the next Howard Griffin by getting one of those mammoth agile athletic lead blocking 250 pound plus FB with our 4th or 5th pick. So Jon Stewart, Mendenhall and or Cox, Caulcrick or Schmitt need to become Broncos. After all, TD played like a first round pick and first ballot HOF inductee for 3 consecutive years before his career ending injury in 1999.

Just keep drafting baby! And allow Bowlen (He's really pissed;)) to recoup some of his lost millions by staying away from signing high priced FA for at least two consecutive years.

Good Luck Coach.......you have a 50/50 chance of pulling this off!

With exception of the Jake comments IMO you were dead on.. mikey knew what he was getting arm wise.. I think he was surprised to find out his arm was stronger than he thought.. I also think he was surprised he became the locker room leader and unconventional guy he was..


I also doubt that mikey can have third year of great drafts.. I do not think 2005 was all that great.. A drafted KR that could actually play CB.

[Superchop 7]

It's even worse now that we're signing Mikey's would be bust's in FA...

IMO, this is the last chance for Mikey the GM. From what I have seen from Mikey the GM up until now, I would say there are 3 or 4 members here on this board that would be a better GM then Shanahan..

Don't believe me? Go back and look at some of the prospect's some of our members have wanted instead of who Shanahan chose... I know this is a new forum, but most all our members came from other boards...


Just in case you were wondering, I Ain't counting myself as one of the 3 or 4..

I honestly believe some of our members, put more time into scouting players then Shanahan does and their not getting paid to do it. They would jump at the chance to talk to the prospects... Unlike Shanahan...

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________



Couldn't agree more, (in regards to board members) we praised some of the recent picks.

My thought ?

If it wasn't broke, don't fix it, if alot of dysfunction actually "helps"....leave it alone.

This may sound nuts, but, think in terms of a rock band......there are always disagreements......but.....at the end of the day the song is what keeps you together.

A few years ago I wanted Ted gone, but, they turned it around.

Gotta be fair.

[BeefStew25]

With exception of the Jake comments IMO you were dead on.. mikey knew what he was getting arm wise.. I think he was surprised to find out his arm was stronger than he thought.. I also think he was surprised he became the locker room leader and unconventional guy he was..


I also doubt that mikey can have third year of great drafts.. I do not think 2005 was all that great.. A drafted KR that could actually play CB.

Yeah, I used to hate when Plummer would overthrow his recievers. :rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

Yeah, I used to hate when Plummer would overthrow his recievers. :rolleyes:

If mikey did not know what he was buying in FA, who's fault was that Jakes?

No it is IMO just one more mikey I'm great, the mastermind, I can make superstars out of mortal men..

He was responsible for TD, and I think his ego has run a muck since. Trying to "find" another TD in the bowels of the draft. Make Jake into John, trying to make greasy into HIS FIND.

Why else would he have taken various folks in the draft like a one handed disabled WR in the second round. It has to be hero ego IMO.. Either that or his scouting system sucked so bad that they did not know what everyone else did.. He had a claw for a hand.. And then he is responsible for that also..