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Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 07:52 PM
Check out the Denver Broncos homepage.

HAPPY DAYS HELL YES!

Bronco9798
03-12-2008, 07:53 PM
Like it really makes a difference. He was a puppet hanging from Shanny's ceiling that Shanny tugged on every so often when he needed a drink or something.

dogfish
03-12-2008, 07:53 PM
fo real?


don't **** with my emotions on this, dream. . . . :laugh:

shank
03-12-2008, 07:53 PM
how the hell are we scapegoating DURING the offseason?!

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 07:54 PM
fo real?


don't **** with my emotions on this, dream. . . . :laugh:

Dude, check it out www.denverbroncos.com!

dogfish
03-12-2008, 07:55 PM
Sundquist Departs As Broncos General Manager
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The Denver Broncos have announced that General Manager Ted Sundquist is no longer with the team, effective immediately.

Head Coach Mike Shanahan said, “I am grateful to Ted for all his hard work and efforts on behalf of the Broncos for the past 16 years. Now is the time for our organization to move forward and look at new directions. We are prepared to do so, starting with our ongoing draft planning, and along with continuing preparations for our mini-camps and training camp.”

Director of Player Personnel Jim Goodman and Assistant General Manager Jeff Goodman each will have more prominent roles in football operations, while Joe Ellis, recently named as Chief Operating Officer of the Broncos, will assist on operational and administrative issues related to football.


__________________________________________________ __


that's awfully abrupt, and with absolutely no explanation given-- musta gotten caught screwing shanahan's wife or something. . . . :eek:

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 07:55 PM
Hell Yeah, Best Draft Coming Up Ever.

frauschieze
03-12-2008, 07:56 PM
Huh. Wonder what prompted this move.

Hoshdude7
03-12-2008, 07:56 PM
So who's the GM?

topscribe
03-12-2008, 07:57 PM
Wednesday night, the Broncos announced the departure of General Manager
Ted Sundquist.

Here is the text of the release announcing the move:

The Denver Broncos have announced that General Manager Ted Sundquist
is no longer with the team, effective immediately. Head Coach Mike
Shanahan said, “I am grateful to Ted for all his hard work and efforts on
behalf of the Broncos for the past 16 years. Now is the time for our
organization to move forward and look at new directions. We are prepared
to do so, starting with our ongoing draft planning, and along with
continuing preparations for our mini camps and training camp.”

Director of Player Personnel Jim Goodman and Assistant General Manager
Jeff Goodman each will have more prominent roles in football operations,
while Joe Ellis, recently named as Chief Operating Officer of the Broncos,
will assist on operational and administrative issues related to football.



http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2008/03/12/sundquist-departs-as-general-manager/


----------

Does that mean that Shanny, erstwhile GM de facto, is now officially the GM?

Would the Broncos, perchance, be going the wrong way with this?? :confused:


-----

dogfish
03-12-2008, 07:57 PM
So who's the GM?

same guy who was before-- shanahan. . ..

Bronco9798
03-12-2008, 07:58 PM
This has no impact on anything except saving some salary for the organization.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 07:59 PM
Jim Goodman's son was named Assistant GM a month or so ago. The Goodman's (Dad and Son) with Shanahan will be in charge.

What prompted this move? Ted Sundquist being a pompous ass and doing a poor job. I knew my criticism would finally come true. :)

shank
03-12-2008, 08:00 PM
So who's the GM?

Mr. Hat out of South Park, CO

shank
03-12-2008, 08:01 PM
Hell Yeah, Best Draft Coming Up Ever.

i should probably know by now, but, is this sarcasm?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 08:03 PM
I'm dead serious.

Hobe
03-12-2008, 08:03 PM
Jeff Goodman

Jim Goodman

Who are these guys? Twin sons of different mother? :smack:

The hierarchy of the team has been something of a mystery to me for some time. Even more so, now .:confused:

Hoshdude7
03-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Everything from: owning the team, and management of h2o is run by Shanny.

dogfish
03-12-2008, 08:09 PM
Jeff Goodman

Jim Goodman

Who are these guys? Twin sons of different mother? :smack:

The hierarchy of the team has been something of a mystery to me for some time. Even more so, now .:confused:

they're john goodman's long-lost twins. . . .

BeefStew25
03-12-2008, 08:16 PM
What does this mean, Hal. Hal? What does this mean?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 08:26 PM
Jeff is Jim's son. Jim is our DPP.

WARHORSE
03-12-2008, 08:26 PM
What does this mean, Hal. Hal? What does this mean?

Sundquist ordered the code red.

Told Shanny he stood on the wall that protected him from the big bad wolf.:coffee:

WARHORSE
03-12-2008, 08:27 PM
Im stunned.

Somehow, Im thinking there were some feathers rubbed in the wrong direction with the hiring of Goodman.


.........or sumthin.


.......or another.

NameUsedBefore
03-12-2008, 08:27 PM
Sundquist ordered the code red.

Told Shanny he stood on the wall that protected him from the big bad wolf.:coffee:

When asked why he was fired, Shanny told him it was all there, clear as crystal.

DenBronx
03-12-2008, 08:31 PM
time for some new voices and fresh blood.....we wernt exactlly building a team of pro bowlers through the draft all these years anyway.

good move.

BeefStew25
03-12-2008, 08:32 PM
Sundquist ordered the code red.

Told Shanny he stood on the wall that protected him from the big bad wolf.:coffee:

Well, crap, War. Form an opinion so I can have one. I don't pay attention to this kinda stuff.

broncosfanscott
03-12-2008, 08:32 PM
Now I wonder what are the reasons he isn't the GM...........the new fall guy?

My question is why wasn't this done earlier instead of in the middle of FA?

Superchop 7
03-12-2008, 08:33 PM
Obviously, since we have been (recently) having success in the draft, it was time for him to go.

Shanny has to protect his image.

TXBRONC
03-12-2008, 08:36 PM
Now I wonder what are the reasons he isn't the GM...........the new fall guy?

My question is why wasn't this done earlier instead of in the middle of FA?

Maybe its because there wasn't a problem until just recently.

Superchop 7
03-12-2008, 08:40 PM
What does this mean, Hal. Hal? What does this mean?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

"I think he wants to say it, I think he's pissed off that he has to hide behind all this, I think he wants to say that he made a command decision and that should be the end of it !!!!"

TXBRONC
03-12-2008, 08:43 PM
I think the reason you guys don't know is because you can't handle the truth. :D

lex
03-12-2008, 08:44 PM
Im stunned.

Somehow, Im thinking there were some feathers rubbed in the wrong direction with the hiring of Goodman.


.........or sumthin.


.......or another.

Its interesting because Goodman was the main scout in charge of the southeast United States and he seems to have had Shanahans ear when you look at our recent drafts. A lot of our better players played their college ball in the southeast. They havent been leadpipe locks as Foster played in the SEC, but Im not sure if Goodman was in charge of that region back then. Shanahan seems to possibly be relying on him more due to his familiarity with the southeast.

silkamilkamonico
03-12-2008, 08:45 PM
What the he!! took Denver so long?

Superchop 7
03-12-2008, 08:55 PM
NEW GM,

Job 1, as of right **EDIT** now, is to get Al Wilson and Jason Elam back on this team.

Comprende' !!!!!!:mad:

BOSSHOGG30
03-12-2008, 09:18 PM
From PFT:

The back end of the rumor that we heard back in November was that Mike Lombardi, who worked for the Broncos as a volunteer in 2007, would take over the job.

Our guess? Given that the Broncos dumped Sundquist before the draft, the Raiders might quickly come calling, if for no reason other than to find out what Denver is planning for the rookie selection weekend.

gobroncsnv
03-12-2008, 09:22 PM
Maybe we found out we could get Millen...

Medford Bronco
03-12-2008, 09:25 PM
Jeff Goodman

Jim Goodman

Who are these guys? Twin sons of different mother? :smack:

The hierarchy of the team has been something of a mystery to me for some time. Even more so, now .:confused:

John Goodmans Brothers :laugh:

dogfish
03-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Maybe we found out we could get Millen...

ahahahaha!!!




seriously though, that's not funny-- don't even joke about stuff like that. . . . :tsk:

gobroncsnv
03-12-2008, 09:40 PM
You're right, we need to get Millen to go to the Raiders... he and Davis would be a match made in Heck.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 09:49 PM
Here are some of Sundquist’s follies as a GM: Stating Marion Barber wasn’t deserving of the #100 pick that we used on Maurice Clarett due to a hamstring injury that was suffered his freshman year that caused him to redshirt (besides the fact that Clarett was removed two years from football, came to the combine overweight and ran one of the slowest RB times recorded at Indianapolis) and despite having a firm hand in the drafting of players such as George Foster, Willie Middlebrooks and Jarvis Moss in the first round, all who had serious injury concerns during college and at the time of their draft.

Let us not forget Sundquist saying Denver didn’t need to “draft a safety” in 2007, because who would replace John Lynch and Nick Ferguson. Oh Ted, hindsight really is 20/20! Ferguson was replaced by lackluster Hamza Abdullah several games into the season and John Lynch contempated retirement for most of the off-season before coming to Denver at a reduced salary. Funny thing is, Denver also signed two safeties (Manuel and McCree) to help ease the pain at the safety position. Yeah Ted, you’re right - we didn’t need to draft a safety. *sarcasm*

Keep in mind the ridiculous back-peddling and excuse making of selecting busts throughout the years as well, which can still be viewed on his blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist). Hate to take the trip to negative town regarding Sundquist, but it’s a trip I’m willing to make because in the end - I feel better about our team moving forward with him off the wagon than recklessly steering it.

BANJOPICKER1
03-12-2008, 09:52 PM
Like it really makes a difference. He was a puppet hanging from Shanny's ceiling that Shanny tugged on every so often when he needed a drink or something.
Or visa versa???Lets wait and see...:D

Superchop 7
03-12-2008, 09:52 PM
Its interesting because Goodman was the main scout in charge of the southeast United States and he seems to have had Shanahans ear when you look at our recent drafts. A lot of our better players played their college ball in the southeast. They havent been leadpipe locks as Foster played in the SEC, but Im not sure if Goodman was in charge of that region back then. Shanahan seems to possibly be relying on him more due to his familiarity with the southeast.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

Looking at your mock, Harrison will be gone in the 3rd.

lex
03-12-2008, 09:52 PM
Here are some of Sundquist’s follies as a GM: Stating Marion Barber wasn’t deserving of the #100 pick that we used on Maurice Clarett due to a hamstring injury that was suffered his freshman year that caused him to redshirt (besides the fact that Clarett was removed two years from football, came to the combine overweight and ran one of the slowest RB times recorded at Indianapolis) and despite having a firm hand in the drafting of players such as George Foster, Willie Middlebrooks and Jarvis Moss in the first round, all who had serious injury concerns during college and at the time of their draft.

Let us not forget Sundquist saying Denver didn’t need to “draft a safety” in 2007, because who would replace John Lynch and Nick Ferguson. Oh Ted, hindsight really is 20/20! Ferguson was replaced by lackluster Hamza Abdullah several games into the season and John Lynch contempated retirement for most of the off-season before coming to Denver at a reduced salary. Funny thing is, Denver also signed two safeties (Manuel and McCree) to help ease the pain at the safety position. Yeah Ted, you’re right - we didn’t need to draft a safety. *sarcasm*

Keep in mind the ridiculous back-peddling and excuse making of selecting busts throughout the years as well, which can still be viewed on his blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist). Hate to take the trip to negative town regarding Sundquist, but it’s a trip I’m willing to make because in the end - I feel better about our team moving forward with him off the wagon than recklessly steering it.

Thats a stretch.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 09:53 PM
Not a stretch when all the aforementioned are true.

lex
03-12-2008, 09:57 PM
Not a stretch when all the aforementioned are true.

Believe what you want.

lex
03-12-2008, 09:58 PM
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

Looking at your mock, Harrison will be gone in the 3rd.

Yeah, I realize that there are 150 guys who could possibly go in the first 95 picks.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 09:59 PM
Believe what you want.

Yeah, I'll believe the truth.

He said all those things, and he defended bust after bust picks. It's all on his blog free for the world to see.

lex
03-12-2008, 10:02 PM
Yeah, I'll believe the truth.

He said all those things, and he defended bust after bust picks. It's all on his blog free for the world to see.

No, youll belive what you want.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 10:09 PM
No, youll belive what you want.

If you're not willing to refute anything I said, there's no real point at drawing pictures in the sand if they don't amount to anything.

Fact: Sundquist stated we did not need to draft a safety based on the talent we had there already. One of the starters were benched, the other contemplated retirement and came back at a reduced rate. We signed two players because we lacked depth at the position.

Fact: Sundquist tried to justify the selections of players who were busts (Foster, Middlebrooks, etc.) and failed to do so. A bust is a bust.

Fact: Sundquist is a hypocrite for saying Marion Barber III wasn't worth the #100 (compensatory) selection in the draft due to injury concerns; yet during his time as a GM - several players (including three first round picks) were drafted who were injured or had serious injury concerns throughout their college career. It's pure BS, and a kitten's move of covering their shit with litter excuse to say what he said.

Who do they go and draft? A mental case kid who was out of football and had one of the worst workouts for a back at Indianapolis. Where's MC now? Jail. Where's Barber? Prospering in the NFL.

While Shanahan gets to make the final selection, you're only as good as the people working below you - and it's quite clear that over the past six years, Sundquist has done a terrible job as a general manager. Giving up tons of value in selections, coupled with poor selections on top of it made this choice easy. If Jeff Goodman being promoted to Assistant GM not too long ago didn't make this clear, I don't know what did.

I'll take a quote from a friend on the Mane regarding Ted.

"I had the displeasure of meeting the man once, and believe me - once was enough."

Good riddance.

underrated29
03-12-2008, 10:11 PM
why is everyone so surprised, we all knew this was going to happen this year.


also i do believe i also read that stuff that ted said in his blog, for the most part i think its pretty accurate. I liked ted, but thats a low ball move if he goes to the raiders. If thats the case, I hope the raiders take dorsey and his knees give out and he has to retire (not to knock glen mind you, just so the raiders lose another high first rd pick.)

Superchop 7
03-12-2008, 10:12 PM
Here are some of Sundquist’s follies as a GM: Stating Marion Barber wasn’t deserving of the #100 pick that we used on Maurice Clarett due to a hamstring injury that was suffered his freshman year that caused him to redshirt (besides the fact that Clarett was removed two years from football, came to the combine overweight and ran one of the slowest RB times recorded at Indianapolis) and despite having a firm hand in the drafting of players such as George Foster, Willie Middlebrooks and Jarvis Moss in the first round, all who had serious injury concerns during college and at the time of their draft.

Let us not forget Sundquist saying Denver didn’t need to “draft a safety” in 2007, because who would replace John Lynch and Nick Ferguson. Oh Ted, hindsight really is 20/20! Ferguson was replaced by lackluster Hamza Abdullah several games into the season and John Lynch contempated retirement for most of the off-season before coming to Denver at a reduced salary. Funny thing is, Denver also signed two safeties (Manuel and McCree) to help ease the pain at the safety position. Yeah Ted, you’re right - we didn’t need to draft a safety. *sarcasm*

Keep in mind the ridiculous back-peddling and excuse making of selecting busts throughout the years as well, which can still be viewed on his blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist). Hate to take the trip to negative town regarding Sundquist, but it’s a trip I’m willing to make because in the end - I feel better about our team moving forward with him off the wagon than recklessly steering it.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

Good post, I certainly haven't given up on Moss though.

He really had a flare (a few years ago) for making picks that were truly against conventional wisdom.

Recently, he had been doing a nice job of drafting.

But the handling of Plummer, Al Wilson, and Jason Elam was atrocious, it was disrespectful to the player and more importantly....the fans. This was not an environment that players felt like family. How can you give your heart and soul to a team that "by their actions" have shown they could care less ? I only saw two games last year when that team had any fire.

Hopefully, "that" will change.

Just look at the Giants, when Coughlin stopped being a jerk, the team responded.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 10:12 PM
why is everyone so surprised, we all knew this was going to happen this year.


also i do believe i also read that stuff that ted said in his blog, for the most part i think its pretty accurate. I liked ted, but thats a low ball move if he goes to the raiders. If thats the case, I hope the raiders take dorsey and his knees give out and he has to retire (not to knock glen mind you, just so the raiders lose another high first rd pick.)

Writing on the wall was there the whole time. When you whiff as much as Ted does, you're bound to get canned. :beer:

tubby
03-12-2008, 10:19 PM
This has no impact on anything except saving some salary for the organization.

Yep, Bowlen is pissed they didn't make the playoffs 2 years in a row. So, he is saving money all over the place. Sunquist is no exception.

Lonestar
03-12-2008, 10:19 PM
Here is my take on it..

We all know that ted was a yes man and had zero qualifications coming into the job. Kinda GM OJT under the wings of mikey..

Between the two of them we have just about the poorest draft record ever..

Everyone is giving mikey credit for turning the DAFTING he has done the past 10 years or so in true drafting for 2006 and 07.

Remember we hired a new guy in 2006 from Tennessee Dinger who saw almost every game that Jay played in for the 2 or 3 years he was in TEN as OC.. On top of that he saw a lot of SEC games being from that neck of the woods

He and Jeff (mikey's buddy) scouted JAY.. Please do not let anyone think that the PRIME movers in getting Jay was anyone but Dinger.. Perhaps even Marshall about the only one of the day one choice he may not have seen was Scheffler..

THEN
Last year we got DE DE OT and DT with the 4 draft choices we had because Bates was the guy that motivated that draft last year.. I think it was a condition of his signing here that they would invest heavily in upgrading the DL.. I'd almost bet it was in his contract.. We all know that mikey has never placed ANY PRIORITY in the DL. His big thing in the past has always been fast LB that could close the gap and make tackles.. that has been his MO from almost day one.. Every DL type we ever had except for price was a second choice to 4th choice and none of them but price #1 and Hayward #3 everyone else we have ever had were ejects or retreads from some other team.

TED could not find his ass with both hands.. We all know that, I think Pat finally figured it out that GM does not mean gofer..

Which all means the only real influences in the past two great drafts are gone.. We are back to in front of square ONE.

Lonestar
03-12-2008, 10:23 PM
Here are some of Sundquist’s follies as a GM: Stating Marion Barber wasn’t deserving of the #100 pick that we used on Maurice Clarett due to a hamstring injury that was suffered his freshman year that caused him to redshirt (besides the fact that Clarett was removed two years from football, came to the combine overweight and ran one of the slowest RB times recorded at Indianapolis) and despite having a firm hand in the drafting of players such as George Foster, Willie Middlebrooks and Jarvis Moss in the first round, all who had serious injury concerns during college and at the time of their draft.

Let us not forget Sundquist saying Denver didn’t need to “draft a safety” in 2007, because who would replace John Lynch and Nick Ferguson. Oh Ted, hindsight really is 20/20! Ferguson was replaced by lackluster Hamza Abdullah several games into the season and John Lynch contempated retirement for most of the off-season before coming to Denver at a reduced salary. Funny thing is, Denver also signed two safeties (Manuel and McCree) to help ease the pain at the safety position. Yeah Ted, you’re right - we didn’t need to draft a safety. *sarcasm*

Keep in mind the ridiculous back-peddling and excuse making of selecting busts throughout the years as well, which can still be viewed on his blog (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist). Hate to take the trip to negative town regarding Sundquist, but it’s a trip I’m willing to make because in the end - I feel better about our team moving forward with him off the wagon than recklessly steering it.

He was falling on the sword to protect mikey, we all know this he was never a real GM he was mikeys boy all the way..

Now he paid the price for it..

ydave77
03-12-2008, 10:28 PM
My 1st response to this news was...eh...who cares..they'll just put another puppet up there anyways.

Now I think ... maybe..just maybe..we can hope against hope that this means we are actively going to try to get a GM who will have real control. Real power.

I know we are all ready to assume Shanny will keep his dominatrix like control over the GM, and will forget to tell him the "safe" word. But in reality...this offseason I think Bowlen has realized we have made some serous personnel mistakes in the past, and he is taking some decision making away from Shanny. Bowlen closed the pocket-book, and instilled the idea of trying to get value FA's. Maybe he realized, Mikey left to his own devices, isnt the best GM we can have. I know this is a stretch...but maybe we will get a real GM. I'd love to have someone with serious GM talent like Savage from Cleveland, or ugh AJ Smith in SD. It could happen....

topscribe
03-12-2008, 10:29 PM
I think the reason you guys don't know is because you can't handle the truth. :D

Grrreat saying. I just logged that in my "Sayings" file.

Consider it plagiarized. :2thumbs:

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weazel
03-12-2008, 10:29 PM
we seen this coming, really. Someone actually stated in a thread about a week ago that he was waiting for the announcement, I forget who it was though.

What will Shanny do with all his puppeteering skills he has gained over the last 10 years?

dogfish
03-12-2008, 10:40 PM
My 1st response to this news was...eh...who cares..they'll just put another puppet up there anyways.

Now I think ... maybe..just maybe..we can hope against hope that this means we are actively going to try to get a GM who will have real control. Real power.

I know we are all ready to assume Shanny will keep his dominatrix like control over the GM, and will forget to tell him the "safe" word. But in reality...this offseason I think Bowlen has realized we have made some serous personnel mistakes in the past, and he is taking some decision making away from Shanny. Bowlen closed the pocket-book, and instilled the idea of trying to get value FA's. Maybe he realized, Mikey left to his own devices, isnt the best GM we can have. I know this is a stretch...but maybe we will get a real GM. I'd love to have someone with serious GM talent like Savage from Cleveland, or ugh AJ Smith in SD. It could happen....


good point-- we can always hope, right?

ydave77
03-12-2008, 10:49 PM
good point-- we can always hope, right?

i just hope pft is wrong...they are taking about mike lombardi taking over. You never know if they listened to him or not...but Oaks draft record during his stay was pretty weak...1999-2006

it would be great though to have someone at gm who has legit authority. our draft record has been somewhat improving, but thats mainly bc it was so bad previously. the 05 draft was soild for not having a 1st rder, but i wouldnt say we got any probowlers. the 06 draft was flat out amazing. and 07 i'm not holding my breath on moss right now. and thomas hopefully this incident is a wake up call, but who knows. and before 05...ugh...lets pretend it never happened.

Regardless...having Shanny focus on coaching instead of splitting time with personnel issues could revitalize him

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 10:50 PM
Lombardi ain't coming. It's the Jim, Jeff and Mike show.

Simple Jaded
03-12-2008, 10:53 PM
With all this hostility toward Sundquist, you'd think he was something more than Shanahan's No1 b1tch......

ydave77
03-12-2008, 11:02 PM
Lombardi ain't coming. It's the Jim, Jeff and Mike show.

what do you know about jim and jeff?
i think you mentioned earlier you (or it may have been someone else), thinking that they were heavily involved in drafting our Southeast players...which seems to be a strength...but i dont know much about them...and know with our finance 1st philosohpy now...drafting is more impt than ever

Requiem / The Dagda
03-12-2008, 11:11 PM
what do you know about jim and jeff?
i think you mentioned earlier you (or it may have been someone else), thinking that they were heavily involved in drafting our Southeast players...which seems to be a strength...but i dont know much about them...and know with our finance 1st philosohpy now...drafting is more impt than ever

Jim's been here a long time, directing college scouting for a while and now player personnel. His son Jeff, played some college ball at Florida, and has been an SEC scout for a few years, and was promoted to Assistant GM. Father-Son duo, nepotism at it's best. . . we'll see how it shakes out.

Jeff's a young guy, I think it's good to have someone like him in the fold. We'll see what happens.

Superchop 7
03-12-2008, 11:36 PM
why is everyone so surprised, we all knew this was going to happen this year.


also i do believe i also read that stuff that ted said in his blog, for the most part i think its pretty accurate. I liked ted, but thats a low ball move if he goes to the raiders. If thats the case, I hope the raiders take dorsey and his knees give out and he has to retire (not to knock glen mind you, just so the raiders lose another high first rd pick.)

__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Who, on Gods green earth would care who we are thinking about taking ?

Oh wait, were talking about the Raiders.

No explanations necessary, I'm sure it makes perfect sense to them.

Buff
03-13-2008, 12:37 AM
Shanahan is running out of people to scapegoat... I've long been a Shanny apologist-- saying there isn't another coach in the NFL I'd rather have... I still think he's one of the best gameday coaches out there, but his personnel skills are terrible, and if we don't make the playoffs this year, it's time that the buck stops with him.

topscribe
03-13-2008, 12:39 AM
Shanahan is running out of people to scapegoat... I've long been a Shanny apologist-- saying there isn't another coach in the NFL I'd rather have... I still think he's one of the best gameday coaches out there, but his personnel skills are terrible, and if we don't make the playoffs this year, it's time that the buck stops with him.

And it looks as if he's running out of "buckstops." :nod:

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Lonestar
03-13-2008, 12:42 AM
Shanahan is running out of people to scapegoat... I've long been a Shanny apologist-- saying there isn't another coach in the NFL I'd rather have... I still think he's one of the best gameday coaches out there, but his personnel skills are terrible, and if we don't make the playoffs this year, it's time that the buck stops with him.

It has been time for a long time to get a Professional GM in here. Ted was a
yes man to mikey and his whims.. just think how much easier it could have been for mikey as the HC if at least one day one draft choice would have really been starter material opposes to that was all we had to play and since he was a #1 choice we will/have to give him 3 years to fall on this face..

Mikey has screwed the pooch once to often.

Bates is gone.

dinger is gone.

ted is gone

Now there are no more offical scapegoats to fall on their swords for mikey..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-13-2008, 12:46 AM
Sundquist is surprised. I'm not. (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/12/sundquist-out-broncos-gm/)

Requiem / The Dagda
03-13-2008, 01:06 AM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/hartcavalcade/sundquist_shanahan.jpg

Scarface
03-13-2008, 01:19 AM
Jeff Fisher is our GM.

http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/image/view/139/inline

fcspikeit
03-13-2008, 01:29 AM
Sundquist is surprised. I'm not. (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/12/sundquist-out-broncos-gm/)


The shocking news of Ted Sundquist's "immediate" departure as general manager of the Broncos came via a terse three-paragraph release from the team Wednesday evening.

Even more stunning: Sundquist getting the word in similarly abrupt fashion from coach Mike Shanahan only about an hour earlier that he had been fired after six seasons in the job and more than 1 1/2 decades with the organization.

Director of player personnel Jim Goodman and assistant general manager Jeff Goodman will have expanded duties in football operations. Joe Ellis, the club's chief operating officer, will help on "operational and administrative issues related to football" in Sundquist's place.

No other new hires are expected.

"I'm very disappointed," Sundquist said when reached by phone. "I've been with the club for 16-plus seasons and loved every minute of it. I started at the bottom and worked my way up to become general manager of an NFL team and certainly have a great deal of love and admiration for the organization.

"I had envisioned myself being general manager of the Denver Broncos my entire working life and really thought that would happen. So for it to end this way, I'm very disappointed."

As Shanahan's right-hand man, Sundquist had wide-ranging power but still lacked final authority.

But Sundquist orchestrated a slew of moves in recent years, including trades for Champ Bailey and Dre Bly and draft maneuvering that landed quarterback Jay Cutler while working hard to improve the club's salary-cap health.

He was well-respected in the agent and player-evaluation communities, serving on the board of directors of National Football Scouting.

But it appears a disconnect between Shanahan and Sundquist became untenable from the side that mattered most.

"I'm proud of what I accomplished as general manager of this football team," Sundquist said.

Yet the Broncos' 7-9 finish - and two straight years out of the playoffs - appears to have made Shanahan agitated behind the scenes, which has been reflected in his offseason moves.

Defensive coordinator Jim Bates left instead of accepting a demotion. Offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger bolted in essentially a lateral job move to Tennessee. And Mike Lombardi, brought into the personnel department to gauge the team's talent level, submitted his report and immediately wasn't retained.

Now, Sundquist is history, too.

"I'm very surprised," Sundquist said.

Owner Pat Bowlen, who promoted Sundquist to general manager instead of perhaps losing him to the Atlanta Falcons in January 2002, was unavailable for comment.

Ellis and Jim Goodman also did not return calls.

While saying he was "grateful" for Sundquist's contributions, Shanahan said in a statement, "Now is the time for our organization to move forward and look at new directions. We are prepared to do so, starting with our ongoing draft planning, and along with continuing preparations for our minicamps and training camp."

Sundquist, 45, had signed an extension through the 2008 season, with a joint option for 2009.

That is pretty interesting about Lombardi, His report must have read something like, "The talent on this team sucks! Who drafted all these bums?"


Also, I don't like the way Mickey cuts and fires people! Even if you think the guy was a slug, he worked for us the last 16 years.

Show some respect....

WARHORSE
03-13-2008, 02:47 AM
Well, crap, War. Form an opinion so I can have one. I don't pay attention to this kinda stuff.

OK.



:listen:



:coffee:



:listen:



:confused:



:salute:

Superchop 7
03-13-2008, 03:09 AM
How's that Clarett pick workin out for ya ?

(couldn't help myself......ahhhh.....the smell of Napalm in the morning.....)

Superchop 7
03-13-2008, 03:20 AM
Sundquist is surprised. I'm not. (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/12/sundquist-out-broncos-gm/)

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

He thought being a GM of an NFL franchise is a solid long term position ?

Is he delusional ?

WARHORSE
03-13-2008, 03:30 AM
It has been time for a long time to get a Professional GM in here. Ted was a
yes man to mikey and his whims.. just think how much easier it could have been for mikey as the HC if at least one day one draft choice would have really been starter material opposes to that was all we had to play and since he was a #1 choice we will/have to give him 3 years to fall on this face..

Mikey has screwed the pooch once to often.

Bates is gone.

dinger is gone.

ted is gone

Now there are no more offical scapegoats to fall on their swords for mikey..

Where were these guys when we were losing?

We brought in a slew of fat boys last year, and sent em packing even before the plane seat got cold. Thats Tedsters job last time I checked.

I like the innovative trades we did with him at the helm, they :beer:were cool, but lets not get carried away.

WARHORSE
03-13-2008, 03:33 AM
(flush)

Superchop 7
03-13-2008, 04:08 AM
Rocky Mountain News (Pat Bowlen quoted)

"Now what we had here.....was fail-ya to communicate.....some men you just can't reach.......which is the way he wants it.....well......he gets it"

"I don't like this.....anymore than you do"

claymore
03-13-2008, 06:57 AM
That is pretty interesting about Lombardi, His report must have read something like, "The talent on this team sucks! Who drafted all these bums?"


Also, I don't like the way Mickey cuts and fires people! Even if you think the guy was a slug, he worked for us the last 16 years.

Show some respect....A guy in the position Sundquist was, you do not let them know you are firing them. Im sure they had to asses all of the paperwork/information he still had or had access to. If Sunquist was spiteful, he could have made a copy of our scouting reports etc, etc.

I

EastCoastBronco
03-13-2008, 07:28 AM
It's been said before in this thread but I'll say it again...this move changes nothing. Until we get a change in HC we will stay in the middle of the pack... Not being cynical, just logical.

Fan in Exile
03-13-2008, 08:10 AM
To be fair for all we know he got fired for having porn on his computer. Not that it isn't good to see six pages of pure speculation.

Looking at the timing of the move I really don't think you can call this scapegoating. Not that you haters out there won't still think of it that way. I can only speculate that something must have happened recently that pushed Mike over the edge with Ted. Maybe it was his draft board for 2008. Maybe he made a pass at Mike's wife but something happened.

lex
03-13-2008, 09:03 AM
Well his tenure was 6 years. There were some pretty bad drafts at the beginning of that tenure and we've been paying for it recently. It just goes to show that sooner or later you pay the price for bad drafting, whether thats paying for free agent help or losing your job as a GM.

Watchthemiddle
03-13-2008, 09:48 AM
I bet he gets picked up by the Raiders...:coffee:

It will be interesting to see how this draft goes.

Mike
03-13-2008, 09:48 AM
From the Post.

Writing on the wall for ex-leader
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 03/13/2008 01:34:46 AM MDT


After 16 years of playing the good soldier for the Broncos, general manager Ted Sundquist was shown the door Wednesday, and told to march. It was a crummy way to say goodbye to a loyal man.

But he had to go.

Coach Mike Shanahan required a scapegoat for yet another disappointing football season. Sundquist, a 45-year-old graduate of the Air Force Academy who had diligently worked his way up from the bottom at Broncos headquarters, was sick and tired of being the fall guy. Their long uneasy relationship crumbled under the weight of defeat.

Although Sundquist was dumped at the dinner hour and his departure was announced in an impersonal written statement of 61 cold, terse words by Shanahan, this was a bad ending waiting to happen and months in the making.

As general manager of a chronically underachieving team plagued by bad personnel decisions that included ballyhooed acquisitions from receiver Javon Walker to defensive tackle Sam Adams that went wrong, Sundquist constantly found himself in the no-win position of holding scant power while taking much of the blame.

Those frustrations came spilling out in an electronic message Sund- quist sent me Dec. 3, as yet another unsatisfying Broncos season unraveled.

"I'm personally willing to stand up for the decisions that have been made, but understand I don't necessarily agree with them. The military taught me a lot about how to handle situations like that," Sundquist wrote, after the Broncos blew a road game to lowly Oakland that dropped their record to 5-7.

Within 24 hours of the discouraging defeat, Sundquist fired off a lengthy, unsolicited e-mail. He shared the unenviable challenges of working for a football franchise ruled at the top by Shanahan, and the criticism always rolled downhill, falling on the head of a quarterback, defensive coordinator or general manager.

Although Sundquist made the predictable statements about being "disappointed" and "surprised" during interviews immediately after his dismissal, he clearly was aware of a major disconnect between himself and Shanahan regarding the way the Broncos conducted business.

"The question isn't whether Mike is getting the right advice, as much as how it is being used. I think the assumption that our personnel department has somehow let him down and that Denver needs to hire a 'guru' to get things right is a bit off," Sundquist had informed me in December.

"I do enjoy my job and understand its responsibilities. This position might be as difficult as there is in the NFL. I'm also extremely confident that if I were to be supplanted as the GM by some 'guru' that I would land on my feet fairly well and probably in an even larger capacity. That's not meant as arrogant, it's just knowing the business."

Long disappointed about being the invisible man on an NFL organizational chart, Sundquist applied for front-office jobs in Chicago and Seattle during recent years, only to be eliminated from consideration late in the interview process.

He penned a blog for the team's website and made a weekly appearance on a local television station during the season to increase his profile in a city of Broncomaniacs, many of whom always assumed Shanahan was the de facto general manager.

With Denver dealing with frequent changes in recent years at defensive coordinator, the difficult challenge for Sundquist was to provide players for a unit that lacked the continuity any defense requires to establish a strong identity.

The expensive risk taken on running back Travis Henry, whose injury-plagued season became filled with controversial court revelations he had fathered nine children from nine women, was a roll of the dice because the Broncos switched from swift tailbacks such as Clinton Portis favored by former offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak to a powerful, move-the-chains runner more befitting of Shanahan's style.

A general manager should be able to shape a football team as he envisions. Sundquist filled orders like a stock clerk. It was a thankless task doomed to failure.

When Sundquist openly questioned how much ability veteran defender John Lynch had lost during an interview with The Denver Post late in the season, Lynch was incensed and the Pro Bowl safety made his displeasure known at Dove Valley. The plug immediately was pulled on Sundquist's TV appearances, and his long career with the Broncos began fading to black.

Late last month, Lynch agreed to a new contract with the Broncos.

On his way home to supper Wednesday evening, Sundquist was summoned to Shanahan's office and fired.

Watchthemiddle
03-13-2008, 09:54 AM
On his way home to supper Wednesday evening, Sundquist was summoned to Shanahan's office and fired

Shouldn't the "GM" be fired by the Owner???

Huummmmmm.....

He is probably happy about this.....it sounds as though he was tired of the Shanahan regime.

It seems like everyone we get rid of....(players, coaches, etc) they always talk about the Shanahan way or the Highway.

Interesting.

lex
03-13-2008, 09:57 AM
From the Post.

Writing on the wall for ex-leader
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 03/13/2008 01:34:46 AM MDT


After 16 years of playing the good soldier for the Broncos, general manager Ted Sundquist was shown the door Wednesday, and told to march. It was a crummy way to say goodbye to a loyal man.

But he had to go.

Coach Mike Shanahan required a scapegoat for yet another disappointing football season. Sundquist, a 45-year-old graduate of the Air Force Academy who had diligently worked his way up from the bottom at Broncos headquarters, was sick and tired of being the fall guy. Their long uneasy relationship crumbled under the weight of defeat.

Although Sundquist was dumped at the dinner hour and his departure was announced in an impersonal written statement of 61 cold, terse words by Shanahan, this was a bad ending waiting to happen and months in the making.

As general manager of a chronically underachieving team plagued by bad personnel decisions that included ballyhooed acquisitions from receiver Javon Walker to defensive tackle Sam Adams that went wrong, Sundquist constantly found himself in the no-win position of holding scant power while taking much of the blame.

Those frustrations came spilling out in an electronic message Sund- quist sent me Dec. 3, as yet another unsatisfying Broncos season unraveled.

"I'm personally willing to stand up for the decisions that have been made, but understand I don't necessarily agree with them. The military taught me a lot about how to handle situations like that," Sundquist wrote, after the Broncos blew a road game to lowly Oakland that dropped their record to 5-7.

Within 24 hours of the discouraging defeat, Sundquist fired off a lengthy, unsolicited e-mail. He shared the unenviable challenges of working for a football franchise ruled at the top by Shanahan, and the criticism always rolled downhill, falling on the head of a quarterback, defensive coordinator or general manager.

Although Sundquist made the predictable statements about being "disappointed" and "surprised" during interviews immediately after his dismissal, he clearly was aware of a major disconnect between himself and Shanahan regarding the way the Broncos conducted business.

"The question isn't whether Mike is getting the right advice, as much as how it is being used. I think the assumption that our personnel department has somehow let him down and that Denver needs to hire a 'guru' to get things right is a bit off," Sundquist had informed me in December.

"I do enjoy my job and understand its responsibilities. This position might be as difficult as there is in the NFL. I'm also extremely confident that if I were to be supplanted as the GM by some 'guru' that I would land on my feet fairly well and probably in an even larger capacity. That's not meant as arrogant, it's just knowing the business."

Long disappointed about being the invisible man on an NFL organizational chart, Sundquist applied for front-office jobs in Chicago and Seattle during recent years, only to be eliminated from consideration late in the interview process.

He penned a blog for the team's website and made a weekly appearance on a local television station during the season to increase his profile in a city of Broncomaniacs, many of whom always assumed Shanahan was the de facto general manager.

With Denver dealing with frequent changes in recent years at defensive coordinator, the difficult challenge for Sundquist was to provide players for a unit that lacked the continuity any defense requires to establish a strong identity.

The expensive risk taken on running back Travis Henry, whose injury-plagued season became filled with controversial court revelations he had fathered nine children from nine women, was a roll of the dice because the Broncos switched from swift tailbacks such as Clinton Portis favored by former offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak to a powerful, move-the-chains runner more befitting of Shanahan's style.

A general manager should be able to shape a football team as he envisions. Sundquist filled orders like a stock clerk. It was a thankless task doomed to failure.

When Sundquist openly questioned how much ability veteran defender John Lynch had lost during an interview with The Denver Post late in the season, Lynch was incensed and the Pro Bowl safety made his displeasure known at Dove Valley. The plug immediately was pulled on Sundquist's TV appearances, and his long career with the Broncos began fading to black.

Late last month, Lynch agreed to a new contract with the Broncos.

On his way home to supper Wednesday evening, Sundquist was summoned to Shanahan's office and fired.


This is just axe grinding. Kiszla dislikes Shanahan so he gives Sundquist the benefit of the doubt here. He points to all the free agent signings that didnt work out but its been said that FA is the penalty for not drafting well. I dont see how Sundquist has no culpability here. In his end of season presser Shanahan pointed out something thats very valid which is that even though he has the final decision, he relies on others for quality input where making a decisions are concerned. Shanahan is really not able to scout players during the season. Thats someone like Sundquists end of things. And with the rise of Goodman within the organization it seems apparent that Shanahan has chosen to talk to the organ grinder making Sundquist even less relevant.

mclark
03-13-2008, 10:54 AM
The last two year's we've had what look like the best drafts we've had in 10 years. Was that because Sundquist was having an effect -- or just cursed luck? I'm not sure what this means, coming a month before the draft. Could it be disagreement about the direction of the club? Maybe Sundquist wanted more authority.

Or maybe Lynch made Sundquist's firing a clause in his decision to come back.

mclark
03-13-2008, 10:58 AM
How's that Clarett pick workin out for ya ?

(couldn't help myself......ahhhh.....the smell of Napalm in the morning.....)

I think Clarett might have been stuffed down Sundquist's throat. Remember, Bobby Turner was high on Clarett. Smell's like a Mike Shannahan 'you do what I tell you to do' draft pick.

BroncoJoe
03-13-2008, 10:58 AM
I'd love to hear what Zam would say about this.

Expected outcome, the timing of it is curious.

Retired_Member_001
03-13-2008, 11:08 AM
All this means is more power to Shanny. When is Pat Bowlen going to realize that whoever gets the role of Scapegoat (aka Denver Broncos co-GM) isn't the problem, it's Shanahan. The only way any improvements are to be made is if the Broncos bring in a REAL GM or if Shanahan changes, and I seriously doubt the latter.

lex
03-13-2008, 11:15 AM
All this means is more power to Shanny. When is Pat Bowlen going to realize that whoever gets the role of Scapegoat (aka Denver Broncos co-GM) isn't the problem, it's Shanahan. The only way any improvements are to be made is if the Broncos bring in a REAL GM or if Shanahan changes, and I seriously doubt the latter.

Do you really think Shanahan has made personnel decisions without input from Sundquist? Does it really matter whether or not who made the final decisions if Sundquist had significant influence on those decisions? Do you really think Sundquist is pumping Shanahan good information and Shanahan is throwing it out the window and doing whatever he wants and that the personnel moves would be significantly different if Sundquist were making the moves?

mclark
03-13-2008, 11:51 AM
Do you really think Shanahan has made personnel decisions without input from Sundquist? Does it really matter whether or not who made the final decisions if Sundquist had significant influence on those decisions? Do you really think Sundquist is pumping Shanahan good information and Shanahan is throwing it out the window and doing whatever he wants and that the personnel moves would be significantly different if Sundquist were making the moves?

I think Sundquist had imput in Shanahan's decisions.

Who do you think was behind the 'get rid of Gerard Warren' move last summer? I bet it wasn't Sundquist.

lex
03-13-2008, 12:26 PM
I think Sundquist had imput in Shanahan's decisions.

Who do you think was behind the 'get rid of Gerard Warren' move last summer? I bet it wasn't Sundquist.

Who do you think Shanahan was relying on about Gordon and/or Adams? Do you honestly believe that Shanahan himself pours over countless game tape to identify who Denver should target as a free agent? In Chicago, their backup QB, Quinn, was horrible when given the chance and the person who recommended him actually lost his job. Do you really think we drafted Toviessi because Shanahan likes the name?

turftoad
03-13-2008, 12:31 PM
Who do you think Shanahan was relying on about Gordon and/or Adams? Do you honestly believe that Shanahan himself pours over countless game tape to identify who Denver should target as a free agent? In Chicago, their backup QB, Quinn, was horrible when given the chance and the person who recommended him actually lost his job. Do you really think we drafted Toviessi because Shanahan likes the name?

I think Bates had a lot to do with the whole Warren thing.

As far as Toviessi goes, we'll never know what he could have done. He never played a down because of injury. Can't call him a bust or a bad draft choice.

Krugan
03-13-2008, 01:06 PM
Blah blah blah(not the member)

1 constant in the long list of hires/fires, one name rings out, one name stand clear after our string of success, that gained far to much power.

We need a coch and a GM, not one in the same. Its failed elsewhere and its failing here.

I dont see how it can be denied, disputed or refused. Our trouble comes from a poor descion made years back to give overall power to a head coach.

BOSSHOGG30
03-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Didn't Pat already come out and say this year that he is taking away the GM duties from Shanny? I though I read something saying that he wants Shanny to stick to what he does best....head coaching.

Broncolingus
03-13-2008, 01:09 PM
Shanahan has run the show with more authority year after year...this was not a surprise.

I'm curious to know now (after the fact) some of the 'mandated' personnel moves that he didn't agree with or support...I'm sure there were plenty.

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 01:13 PM
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

He thought being a GM of an NFL franchise is a solid long term position ?

Is he delusional ?

If one never gets a negative review I'd guess one would think his job is secure..


Where were these guys when we were losing?

We brought in a slew of fat boys last year, and sent em packing even before the plane seat got cold. Thats Tedsters job last time I checked.

I like the innovative trades we did with him at the helm, they :beer:were cool, but lets not get carried away.

If you truly believe that TED was in charge of acquiring players your delusional.. It is clear to anyone that has followed this team for any time that mikey is a micro manager for the entire operation..

Nothing is done without mikeys complete direction or approval..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-13-2008, 01:22 PM
Mike had the final say in who we drafted; but that doesn't mean Sundquist played an integral role in the scouting and assessment of players both at the college and NFL level. Sundquist's failures as a GM made it an easy decision to get rid of him.

MOtorboat
03-13-2008, 01:31 PM
Just to make things clear, because I don't think some understand this, especially those who think it was odd that Shanahan fired him, and not Bowlen.

Shanahan is the Executive Vice President of Football Operations/Head Coach

Ted Sundquist was the General Manager

There is also a Chief Operating Officer, Joe Ellis...who I imagine runs the money side of things...

Both positions are under Shanahan.

lex
03-13-2008, 01:41 PM
Mike had the final say in who we drafted; but that doesn't mean Sundquist played an integral role in the scouting and assessment of players both at the college and NFL level. Sundquist's failures as a GM made it an easy decision to get rid of him.

Plus there is a famous quote, "never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room" and it appears Goodman is the organgrinder based on his promotion and who we've been drafting in recent years. If Shanahan trusts Goodman more, why is Sundquist there.

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 01:51 PM
Do you really think Shanahan has made personnel decisions without input from Sundquist? Does it really matter whether or not who made the final decisions if Sundquist had significant influence on those decisions? Do you really think Sundquist is pumping Shanahan good information and Shanahan is throwing it out the window and doing whatever he wants and that the personnel moves would be significantly different if Sundquist were making the moves?


YES everyone knows that mikey has this entire franchise under his thumb..

I totally believe the stock clerk comment he made about his authority of making acquisitions..

There is absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind about this..

I'm surprised he had the guts to admit it.. Knowing that mikey is the one to give recommendations..

Pat now is the time to stop mikey in his tracks or it will be another long sad season before you have to make mikey the scapegoat..

How many folks does mikey have to get rid of before you realize it is mikey that is the problem.. How many players does it take that leave the franchise and DISSED your HC about being the little man?
To figure out there may be some credence to the allegations..

How many players and coaches have bailed on the broncos in the past 4-5 years are they bad or are they deserting the sinking ship..

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 01:58 PM
Didn't Pat already come out and say this year that he is taking away the GM duties from Shanny? I though I read something saying that he wants Shanny to stick to what he does best....head coaching.


I have never seen anything like this, but I'm so far out of the loop not getting DEN stations or papers..

I personally think mikey would have quit if that would have been made public..

I think he stopped short by saying things would be different in building the team something they "both" came to the conclusion of .. I read that as Pat has mikey on a real short leash.. and mikey knows it and is doing the scorched earth routine..

lex
03-13-2008, 02:01 PM
YES everyone knows that mikey has this entire franchise under his thumb..

I totally believe the stock clerk comment he made about his authority of making acquisitions..

There is absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind about this..

I'm surprised he had the guts to admit it.. Knowing that mikey is the one to give recommendations..

Pat now is the time to stop mikey in his tracks or it will be another long sad season before you have to make mikey the scapegoat..

How many folks does mikey have to get rid of before you realize it is mikey that is the problem.. How many players does it take that leave the franchise and DISSED your HC about being the little man?
To figure out there may be some credence to the allegations..

How many players and coaches have bailed on the broncos in the past 4-5 years are they bad or are they deserting the sinking ship..

I think you dislike Shanahan and are putting it all at his feet when its not that simple. Do I think there have been times that Shanahan did an end run around Sundquist? Probably. But I dont think it was the norm. I think he is being fired for not being reliable during the times that Shanahan did rely on him. Just because Shanahan makes a decision, it doesnt mean its being made as a result of his own analysis. I dont see that being a significant dimension in all this. If Sundquist was a better source on personnel decisions, he'd still be there.

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 02:02 PM
Just to make things clear, because I don't think some understand this, especially those who think it was odd that Shanahan fired him, and not Bowlen.

Shanahan is the Executive Vice President of Football Operations/Head Coach

Ted Sundquist was the General Manager

There is also a Chief Operating Officer, Joe Ellis...who I imagine runs the money side of things...

Both positions are under Shanahan.

Everything is under mikey, but the owner and frankly that could be up for debate..

This certainly is a the make or break year for mikey. they look good or he is gone and his ego based on the "contract for life" is toast..

BOSSHOGG30
03-13-2008, 02:09 PM
The Ted Sundquist firing tells me one thing... Shanahan is on a shorter leash. No one else to place the blame on. I think if things continue the next year or two like they've been the past few years...We will be looking for a new head coach.

Mike
03-13-2008, 02:11 PM
The Ted Sundquist firing tells me one thing... Shanahan is on a shorter leash. No one else to place the blame on. I think if things continue the next year or two like they've been the past few years...We will be looking for a new head coach.

I agree and was about to post the same thing. This season will tell us the tale. Starting with the draft.

Mike is out of goats now.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-13-2008, 02:16 PM
If Mike fired Ted, how does that show he's on a shorter leash?

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 02:19 PM
I think you dislike Shanahan and are putting it all at his feet when its not that simple. Do I think there have been times that Shanahan did an end run around Sundquist? Probably. But I dont think it was the norm. I think he is being fired for not being reliable during the times that Shanahan did rely on him. Just because Shanahan makes a decision, it doesnt mean its being made as a result of his own analysis. I dont see that being a significant dimension in all this. If Sundquist was a better source on personnel decisions, he'd still be there.


There was no end run around the "GM" that reported to mikey, he simply told ted what to do and ted did it or suffered for it. Ted is a nice guy and i not stupid but he knew his position and was willing to absorb the knowledge of the guy above him great OJT. what to do and what not to do..

Mikey sucked at making DAFT choices till Dinger came to town. that is a fact you can not deny that..

Bates was hugely responsible for making the choices last year there is no one on the forum or fro that matter ANY forum that believes mikey made the conscious decision to draft 3 out of 4 DLine types in last years draft..

I like mike as a offensive coach one of the top 4-5 in the league going back 20 years.. BUT he has an ego the size of mile high because of that and everyone that works in the broncos knows they serve at HIS permission.. Anyone that goes against mikey is gone anyone that doe not agree with his every decision knows it is a matter of time before they need to bail..

Do you think Kubes did not have mikeys job when he decided to leave one of the premier jobs int eh NFL do you think he bailed to go to HOU just because he wanted to move back home? Go to one of the worst franchises in the history of the league or stick around a couple more years for mikey to stroke out or leave for college..

You figure that out..

No mikey does not have time to view every tape and evaluate all the players but I'll bet you that he makes the final decisions based on HIS thoughts and not what all the coaches think. They filter out and present him with the players they would want then he make the final choice.. make no mistake mikey is in total command and control in Dove valley.

HE makes the final decisions period his ego would not allow anything less.

The HC in total control is something that has seldom worked out..

lex
03-13-2008, 02:19 PM
I think its interesting that Sundquist is acting surprised. If this was in the works, Sundquist should have known by the fact that he was being excluded from draft preparation...and I really hope they were leaving him out of the draft discussion since he could now go run to another team with it. Plus, like has been mentioned, there was the promotion of Goodman.

mclark
03-13-2008, 02:22 PM
Who do you think Shanahan was relying on about Gordon and/or Adams? Do you honestly believe that Shanahan himself pours over countless game tape to identify who Denver should target as a free agent? In Chicago, their backup QB, Quinn, was horrible when given the chance and the person who recommended him actually lost his job. Do you really think we drafted Toviessi because Shanahan likes the name?

I like Shanny a lot as a coach -- and I think his greatness lies in (1) his creative approach to offense (which seems to be going in to remission lately); and (2) the respect he gets from his players, which allows him to get more out of players than many other coaches can. We have almost been able to get away with terrible drafts because second day draft choices have played so hard for Shanny.

I'm not crazy about Shanny as a general manager/player personnel guy however. Maybe he does watch hour after hour of tape on defensive tackles he wants to sign. Maybe he IS a control freak who has to control every aspect of the franchise. He SEEMS like a control freak from a distance.

I can't believe MS would draft Toviessi just on the recommendation of Sundquist. But I might be wrong about that.

I CAN picture MS watching film from 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM every day of the week from 15 January through the draft. Again, I realize I may be wrong about this.

I don't mind Sundquist getting fired. Although our last two drafts seemed to me about 100% better than our drafts over the previous decade.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-13-2008, 02:24 PM
I think its interesting that Sundquist is acting surprised.

Sundquist always had a Delusions of Grandeur complex about him that would make his comments of being surprised justifiable. You know, thinking he could do know wrong. . . being the cat's meow. . .

Why didn't we just trade Ted Sundquist for Ted Thompson!?

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 02:25 PM
The Ted Sundquist firing tells me one thing... Shanahan is on a shorter leash. No one else to place the blame on. I think if things continue the next year or two like they've been the past few years...We will be looking for a new head coach.


I totally agree I think Pat has placed the choke chain on mikey and the pressure is showing.. He is a desperate man knowing his job ins on the line.. and some in dove valley have figured this out and mikey is not taking any crap from anyone.

He also may be doing the scorched earth routine also.. He has brought in mokes to head up the OC job and now this year the DC job.

His trusted friend Kubes and now Dinger have both bailed on him..

There is a shit Storm brewing in dove valley...

lex
03-13-2008, 02:25 PM
There was no end run around the "GM" that reported to mikey, he simply told ted what to do and ted did it or suffered for it. Ted is a nice guy and i not stupid but he knew his position and was willing to absorb the knowledge of the guy above him great OJT. what to do and what not to do..

Mikey sucked at making DAFT choices till Dinger came to town. that is a fact you can not deny that..

Bates was hugely responsible for making the choices last year there is no one on the forum or fro that matter ANY forum that believes mikey made the conscious decision to draft 3 out of 4 DLine types in last years draft..

I like mike as a offensive coach one of the top 4-5 in the league going back 20 years.. BUT he has an ego the size of mile high because of that and everyone that works in the broncos knows they serve at HIS permission.. Anyone that goes against mikey is gone anyone that doe not agree with his every decision knows it is a matter of time before they need to bail..

Do you think Kubes did not have mikeys job when he decided to leave one of the premier jobs int eh NFL do you think he bailed to go to HOU just because he wanted to move back home? Go to one of the worst franchises in the history of the league or stick around a couple more years for mikey to stroke out or leave for college..

You figure that out..

No mikey does not have time to view every tape and evaluate all the players but I'll bet you that he makes the final decisions based on HIS thoughts and not what all the coaches think. They filter out and present him with the players they would want then he make the final choice.. make no mistake mikey is in total command and control in Dove valley.

HE makes the final decisions period his ego would not allow anything less.

The HC in total control is something that has seldom worked out..

I think your dislike for Shanahan is causing massive distortion.

BOSSHOGG30
03-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Shanahan just needs to stick to coaching and let the GM be the GM. If Shanahan can do that the Broncos will be fine. No doubts he is a great head coach.

Fan in Exile
03-13-2008, 02:29 PM
I totally agree I think Pat has placed the choke chain on mikey and the pressure is showing.. He is a desperate man knowing his job ins on the line.. and some in dove valley have figured this out and mikey is not taking any crap from anyone.

He also may be doing the scorched earth routine also.. He has brought in mokes to head up the OC job and now this year the DC job.

His trusted friend Kubes and now Dinger have both bailed on him..

There is a shit Storm brewing in dove valley...

I also heard that Shanahan eats babies and is completely responsible for global warming.

lex
03-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Sundquist always had a Delusions of Grandeur complex about him that would make his comments of being surprised justifiable. You know, thinking he could do know wrong. . . being the cat's meow. . .

Why didn't we just trade Ted Sundquist for Ted Thompson!?


Perhaps thats what it is. I actually was thinking he might be posturing for a lawsuit and taking this stance makes him seem even more like a victim. Again, every year there is a timeline leading up to the draft and if he is not privy to whats going on once the draft preparation timeline begins, certainly he is smart enough to realize somethings wrong...plus, he may have been rebuked for his comments about Lynch.

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 02:29 PM
I like Shanny a lot as a coach -- and I think his greatness lies in (1) his creative approach to offense (which seems to be going in to remission lately); and (2) the respect he gets from his players, which allows him to get more out of players than many other coaches can. We have almost been able to get away with terrible drafts because second day draft choices have played so hard for Shanny.

I'm not crazy about Shanny as a general manager/player personnel guy however. Maybe he does watch hour after hour of tape on defensive tackles he wants to sign. Maybe he IS a control freak who has to control every aspect of the franchise. He SEEMS like a control freak from a distance.

I can't believe MS would draft Toviessi just on the recommendation of Sundquist. But I might be wrong about that.

I CAN picture MS watching film from 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM every day of the week from 15 January through the draft. Again, I realize I may be wrong about this.

I don't mind Sundquist getting fired. Although our last two drafts seemed to me about 100% better than our drafts over the previous decade.

mikey is a power freak he has every film/conference room on cameras so he can watch the coaches from afar this has been reported that he has been known to break into coaching sessions, because he saw something that was going on he did not like..

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 02:31 PM
I also heard that Shanahan eats babies and is completely responsible for global warming.


might be if it is happening out of dove valley he is in control there or at least has been up to now.. I think Pat is finally wising up..

G_Money
03-13-2008, 04:15 PM
What I have to say about Sundquist being gone:

:elefant:
:marchmellow:
:balloons:
:cheer2:
:ridinghorse:

~G

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 04:23 PM
What I have to say about Sundquist being gone:

:elefant:
:marchmellow:
:balloons:
:cheer2:
:ridinghorse:

~G

And unless mikey gets someone to HELP make valid decisions in the draft we are going to backslide AGAIN..

Will be interesting to see if Pat is more visible this year on draft day.

sanluis
03-13-2008, 04:28 PM
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 03/13/2008 01:34:46 AM MDT


After 16 years of playing the good soldier for the Broncos, general manager Ted Sundquist was shown the door Wednesday, and told to march. It was a crummy way to say goodbye to a loyal man.

But he had to go.

Coach Mike Shanahan required a scapegoat for yet another disappointing football season. Sundquist, a 45-year-old graduate of the Air Force Academy who had diligently worked his way up from the bottom at Broncos headquarters, was sick and tired of being the fall guy. Their long uneasy relationship crumbled under the weight of defeat.


Maybe Ted could come to SD and be a special advisor to the Chargers? Come live in beautiful California, learn to surf, and live happily ever after. :lol:

G_Money
03-13-2008, 04:29 PM
And unless mikey gets someone to HELP make valid decisions in the draft we are going to backslide AGAIN..

Will be interesting to see if Pat is more visible this year on draft day.

I agree.

But this removes having Sundquist fired next year as an excuse. I like having the excuses removed ASAP. Sundquist was terrible, and an ass, and I'm happy to see him go.

Shanny has lost his offensive coordinator excuse ("hired the wrong guy to replace Kubes") and his GM suckitude excuse ("It's all Teddy's fault") in the same off-season.

These are good things for me.

Maybe eventually the buck WILL stop with Shanny. I want my mid-to-late 90s coach back, not the inferior coach/GM hybrid we've had a while.

Just keep ditching those excuses and either perform or don't. Judging Shanahan on his merits and not his excuses or scapegoats should be fun, since it should be HIS draft and HIS offense this year...right?

~G

BroncoJoe
03-13-2008, 04:33 PM
Good points. I'm a big Shanahan fan, but if we have another year like last year...

I'm not sure what I would think. I'm not talking Superbowl, but we have some very good talent - it seems - that should at the very least take us beyond one playoff game.

dogfish
03-13-2008, 04:39 PM
Maybe Ted could come to SD and be a special advisor to the Chargers? Come live in beautiful California, learn to surf, and live happily ever after. :lol:

absolutely! and since you have him, you won't be needing a.j. smith anymore. . . .

Mike
03-13-2008, 04:42 PM
absolutely! and since you have him, you won't be needing a.j. smith anymore. . . .

Shanahan's and Smith's egos could not fit in the same state, let alone the same room.

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 04:42 PM
I agree.

But this removes having Sundquist fired next year as an excuse. I like having the excuses removed ASAP. Sundquist was terrible, and an ass, and I'm happy to see him go.

Shanny has lost his offensive coordinator excuse ("hired the wrong guy to replace Kubes") and his GM suckitude excuse ("It's all Teddy's fault") in the same off-season.

These are good things for me.

Maybe eventually the buck WILL stop with Shanny. I want my mid-to-late 90s coach back, not the inferior coach/GM hybrid we've had a while.

Just keep ditching those excuses and either perform or don't. Judging Shanahan on his merits and not his excuses or scapegoats should be fun, since it should be HIS draft and HIS offense this year...right?

~G

You forgot the Jim Bates excuse, he left this year also.. NOW mikey has not one left to blame he has hired everyone under him.. unless Pat forced him to take the scouting staff..

Lonestar
03-13-2008, 04:43 PM
Shanahan's and Smith's egos could not fit in the same state, let alone the same room.

I'd rather have smith.. even norv could win with SAN talent..

mclark
03-13-2008, 05:29 PM
I want my mid-to-late 90s coach back, not the inferior coach/GM hybrid we've had a while.


~G

Couldn't agree more.

Superchop 7
03-13-2008, 07:35 PM
In all seriousness.....

Does anyone remember when Shanny said (in regard to Bates defense) "We don't have the personnel to run it"

from that moment forward, the writing was on the wall.

Getting back to last year.

Yes, the Bates defense was a joke.....no argument there. Yes, Bates was highly regarded, supposedly head coach material, and yes, it seemed like a good hire, I'm just glad he's gone.

BUT, there was an absolute hangover in the locker room, there was little fire from the team, and, it's completely understandable. Two players had died, defensive coaching philosophy was in transition, two former team leaders had been treated shoddily by the organization, and players were injured right and left due to poor conditioning.

I think Mikey recognizes this and is unafraid to make moves to get the team focused again, sometimes change is a good thing and I fully expect the team to have a good year. Hopefully Pat will have the foresight to get everyone on the same page and create positive energy throughout the organization.

It's a new day people, time to stop looking in the rear view mirror, THAT get's you "nowhere". (This sentence should be posted at Dove Valley)

wandlc
03-13-2008, 07:50 PM
My guess as to a new GM is Michael Young.

MOtorboat
03-13-2008, 07:52 PM
My guess as to a new GM is Michael Young.

The Wide Receiver?

champbronc2
03-13-2008, 08:13 PM
He didn't do much.

We needed change. His personnel weren't quite up to par..

Simple Jaded
03-13-2008, 08:47 PM
Jeff Fisher is our GM.

http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/image/view/139/inline


Is that Cutler's sister to his left? :eek:......How you doin? ;)......

wandlc
03-13-2008, 09:24 PM
The Wide Receiver?

Yes

Simple Jaded
03-13-2008, 10:10 PM
Yes


Dude, you must have deep connections, cause I just Googled him and got nothing.

Micheal Young SS for the Rangers.

Selvin Young.

Vince Young.

George Young......

SmilinAssasSin27
03-13-2008, 10:31 PM
Why is Sunquidst to blame again? He was there 16 years. Other than Elway, he constructed 2 SB Championship teams...BEFORE Shanny got his hands in the personnel decisions.

broncosfanscott
03-13-2008, 10:47 PM
Not totally sure, however sooner or later there will be no more "fall guys" so let's get thing going.

G_Money
03-13-2008, 10:57 PM
Sundquist became GM (or if you prefer, "GM") in 2001. His first drafts as GM were stunningly, horrifically bad. He didn't construct 2 SB champs, though he WAS in personnel back then. He was the director of college scouting from 96-01.

Let's not be giving him more power than he had. If we think he has only been half a GM the last 6 years, then how little power and/or influence over the Glory Years did he have with lesser titles?

~G

Lonestar
03-14-2008, 12:37 AM
Why is Sunquidst to blame again? He was there 16 years. Other than Elway, he constructed 2 SB Championship teams...BEFORE Shanny got his hands in the personnel decisions.

sorry but he was promoted from flunky to G flunky only 6 years ago so he was not at any time responsible for building the SB teams..

If you read the article he said he was a stock clerk, going and getting the players mikey wanted..

lex
03-14-2008, 01:06 AM
I dont see why this is such a big deal. If he really was Shanahan's fetch boy, I dont see why this is being seen as bad. What value did he really have as a GM if thats so? Conversely, if he wasnt delivering on ways that Shanahan needed him to, again, why keep him around? Either way, I dont really see how this is terribly consequential nor do I think its Shanahans way of scapegoating. If Sundquist had value, he'd still be there. We all know there were some really awful drafts at the beginning of his tenure. And from afar (and this is pure speculation on my part), it seems that the drafts possibly started improving when Shanahan started listening more to Goodman where at a certain point, it became apparent that Goodman was more needed than Sundquist. Who cares about blame? Just focus on what value Sundquist had to the Denver Broncos.

WARHORSE
03-14-2008, 01:13 AM
For the Shanny haters, once again, giving all the credit for the good moves to Sundquist, and the bad ones to Shanny. To see wonderTed crying on the phone to a reporter is bad enough, but to go to Klis, known Shanny critique, is throwing gas into the face of the flame. To be doing so during the season, spilling the beans about how its not his fault is Bad Karma to boot, no?.........:tsk:




Ted always was a cocky dude.

Maybe SHanny wanted to knock that chip off his shoulder.

Superchop 7
03-14-2008, 02:02 AM
Word has it that Ted did not appreciate them bringing in Goodman, so he stopped giving recommendations of who to pursue aggressively.

He went from company man to company adversary.

Sure explains why they didn't go after Ayenbadejo.

Live with the hand your dealt Ted, you brought this upon yourself.

weazel
03-14-2008, 02:42 AM
the Broncos organization is so backwards, the coach fires the GM!

Lonestar
03-14-2008, 11:24 AM
I do not like mikey as emperor which is what he is..

He has been an offensive genius in the past although that merit badge has seemed to be less shiny since Gary K left..

Now that he no longer has the HOF players in John, TD, Sharpe, Zimmerman, and main stay Rod this team has floundered.. That said can he be the "mastermind" again time will tell.

His tyrannical driving of this franchise has left alot to be desired over the past almost decade now.. It has been a continually decline in quality players.. To the point we are today..

The buck stops on mikeys desk and his title of VP of operations everyone and everything goes through his office.. he reports to no one BUT Pat Bowlen.

Should he be able to hire and fire anyone he wants.. of course UNTIL Pat B takes that ability away from him..

BUT folks do not even think that every move this team has made since his Ascension to the throne has not been made by anyone but mikey..

Some of you want to try and convince the less knowledgeable that Ted had real authority to make deals on his own.. Lets not be delusional while he may have learned football operations under mikey he was nothing but the stock clerk he described himself in the article..

Mikey micro manages all aspects of this team.. That means while the scouts do their jobs bringing evaluations of players. They are then handed of to coaches to get their recommendations MIKEY MAKEs the final decisions of who they go after in the draft and as FAs. The GM was in the middle of all of this.. He did not tell mikey what to do like on almost every other NFL team.. He reported to mikey and did his bidding..
So the bottom line is it is a unnecessary job inside the franchise and if cost cutting is what really happened. I suspect that things will go on with someone else carrying mikeys water instead of Ted with out missing a heartbeat..

But DO NOT be naive enough to blame Ted for those lousy drafts since forever.. We all know Dinger was the prime mover in getting mikey excited about Jay.. We all know that Bates was the prime mover in getting DL last year.. So please do not raise the flag that the past two years are a huge uptick in a dismal at best drafting arena for this team..

Mikey has no other scapegoats to blame any longer, everyone one on staff is his creation, his boy so to speak.

I now just hope that Pat will hold the person responsible for the up coming failures accountable.. IMO it is time to get a REAL GM on this team and let him be responsible for everything besides coaching, let mikey do what he USED to do BEST coach on the field decision making...

Perhaps the Peter Principle has kicked in here, mikey has indeed risen to his level of incompetency!!

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 11:27 AM
But DO NOT be naive enough to blame Ted for those lousy drafts since forever.. We all know Dinger was the prime mover in getting mikey excited about Jay.. We all know that Bates was the prime mover in getting DL last year.. So please do not raise the flag that the past two years are a huge uptick in a dismal at best drafting arena for this team..

Jeff Fisher was the guy who let us know about Jay Cutler, not Mike Heimerdinger. And yes, Ted Sundquist SHOULD and WILL and WAS held accountable for giving shitty information and excuses on players. You're only as good as the people working below you and as a talent evaluator, Ted Sundquist sucked.

mclark
03-14-2008, 11:34 AM
Some of you want to try and convince the less knowledgeable that Ted had real authority to make deals on his own.. Lets not be delusional while he may have learned football operations under mikey he was nothing but the stock clerk he described himself in the article..

Mikey micro manages all aspects of this team.. That means while the scouts do their jobs bringing evaluations of players. They are then handed of to coaches to get their recommendations MIKEY MAKEs the final decisions of who they go after in the draft and as FAs. The GM was in the middle of all of this.. He did not tell mikey what to do like on almost every other NFL team.. He reported to mikey and did his bidding..


That's the way I see it. Our drafts weren't that great before Sundquist. I think our last two drafts were better, for whatever reason. Sundquist is gone. Time to move on.

2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota
2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa
2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)

Lonestar
03-14-2008, 12:05 PM
That's the way I see it. Our drafts weren't that great before Sundquist. I think our last two drafts were better, for whatever reason. Sundquist is gone. Time to move on.

2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida

2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota
2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa
2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)

We have sucked on day one in the draft except @ LB where we have had 4 good ones and one total DUD..

Outside that one other real pro bowler in price over 13 years.. That folks is pretty pathetic. Very few legit starters from day one.. Sure mikey has found a bunch of OLINE guys and RB on day one but we all know that is the ZBS system that has saved his ass there..

We all know that Dinger having lived in the same town as Vanderbilt was the prime mover in getting Jay while he may have gotten info from Jeff as final confirmation. It was Dinger whispering in his ear about how great his kid was.. Anyone that believes other wise is smoking the good stuff.

lex
03-14-2008, 12:31 PM
We have sucked on day one in the draft except @ LB where we have had 4 good ones and one total DUD..

Outside that one other real pro bowler in price over 13 years.. That folks is pretty pathetic. Very few legit starters from day one.. Sure mikey has found a bunch of OLINE guys and RB on day one but we all know that is the ZBS system that has saved his ass there..

We all know that Dinger having lived in the same town as Vanderbilt was the prime mover in getting Jay while he may have gotten info from Jeff as final confirmation. It was Dinger whispering in his ear about how great his kid was.. Anyone that believes other wise is smoking the good stuff.

No, we dont know that. In case you havent noticed our main scout and the guy who is replacing Sundquist as head of personnel was in charge of the southeast region, which is where Cutler played his college ball. The game Cutler played against UF in the swamp his senior year sticks out very prominently in the minds of Gator fans and since the Goodmans have a connection with UF, its possible if not likely that interest began to pique for that reason. Also, Marshall, Thomas, Moss, and Cutler fall under Goodman's region. Are we to believe that the Goodmans were whispering in Shanahans ear every time except with Jay Cutler, where it was Heimerdinger as you claim. Not likely.

Lonestar
03-14-2008, 12:38 PM
No, we dont know that. In case you havent noticed our main scout and the guy who is replacing Sundquist as head of personnel was in charge of the southeast region, which is where Cutler played his college ball. The game Cutler played against UF in the swamp his senior year sticks out very prominently in the minds of Gator fans and since the Goodmans have a connection with UF, its possible if not likely that interest began to pique for that reason. Also, Marshall, Thomas, Moss, and Cutler fall under Goodman's region. Are we to believe that the Goodmans were whispering in Shanahans ear every time except with Jay Cutler, where it was Heimerdinger as you claim. Not likely.

Your telling me and everyone else that Dinger living in that city being able to see everyone of his games reading the newspaper daily about his exploits had nothing say about him to his old college roommate?

The guy who hired him to be the the Assistant Head Coach on Offense!

The guy that coached with him before..

You really think mikey did not listen to him and it was all the scouts deal..







AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 12:41 PM
Actually, Ed Lambert was one of the main scouts having a hand in Vanderbilt (check out his history there) and it was indeed Jeff Fisher who was telling us of Jay. So JR, we aren't smoking anything. Shanahan said himself he talked to Jeff Fisher about Jay and he got him sold on Cutler. Let's also not get Jeff Goodman involved with the Cutler talk either; it was Ed Lambert.

lex
03-14-2008, 12:45 PM
Your telling me and everyone else that Dinger living in that city being able to see everyone of his games reading the newspaper daily about his exploits had nothing say about him to his old college roommate?

The guy who hired him to be the the Assistant Head Coach on Offense!

The guy that coached with him before..

You really think mikey did not listen to him and it was all the scouts deal..







AHAHAHAHAHAHA

I am saying that Shanahan listens to Goodman more than Sundquist and Heimerdinger which explains how where things are right now with the Goodmans recently promoted and Sundquist and Heimerdinger no longer with the team.

And I must say youre kind of contradicting yourself. Youre pointing to Shanahan trying to use Sundquist as a yes man and if anything, that applies more to Heimerdinger since we know Shanahan didnt give him any autonomy. And if Heimerdinger is yet another in a long line of yes men, why would Shanahan listen to him more than Goodman, especially now that we have seen how things have played out with Heimerdinger leaving for want of more autonomy and the Goodmans being promoted?

And the Goodman promotion doesnt bother me at all if they have a better eye for talent than Sundquist.

Lonestar
03-14-2008, 12:46 PM
Actually, Ed Lambert was one of the main scouts having a hand in Vanderbilt (check out his history there) and it was indeed Jeff Fisher who was telling us of Jay. So JR, we aren't smoking anything. Shanahan said himself he talked to Jeff Fisher about Jay and he got him sold on Cutler. Let's also not get Jeff Goodman involved with the Cutler talk either; it was Ed Lambert.

While he may have talked with Jeff as confirmation it was not the deciding factor.. Believe what you wish mikey is loyal to his friends first and foremost

I repeat..

Your telling me and everyone else that Dinger living in that city being able to see everyone of his games reading the newspaper daily about his exploits had nothing say about him to his old college roommate?

The guy who hired him to be the the Assistant Head Coach on Offense!

The guy that coached with him before..

You really think mikey did not listen to him and it was all the scouts deal..





AHAHAHAHAHAHA

lex
03-14-2008, 12:47 PM
Actually, Ed Lambert was one of the main scouts having a hand in Vanderbilt (check out his history there) and it was indeed Jeff Fisher who was telling us of Jay. So JR, we aren't smoking anything. Shanahan said himself he talked to Jeff Fisher about Jay and he got him sold on Cutler. Let's also not get Jeff Goodman involved with the Cutler talk either; it was Ed Lambert.

Fair enough but that is Goodmans region.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Fair enough but that is Goodmans region.

It was also Ed Lambert's - who coached at Vanderbilt for 10 years before joining the Broncos.

lex
03-14-2008, 12:50 PM
While he may have talked with Jeff as confirmation it was not the deciding factor.. Believe what you wish mikey is loyal to his friends first and foremost

I repeat..

Your telling me and everyone else that Dinger living in that city being able to see everyone of his games reading the newspaper daily about his exploits had nothing say about him to his old college roommate?

The guy who hired him to be the the Assistant Head Coach on Offense!

The guy that coached with him before..

You really think mikey did not listen to him and it was all the scouts deal..





AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Scouting is not Heimerdingers bailiwick. Look at all the other draft picks coming from that region. Its more far fetched to think he listened to the scouts with everyone but Cutler.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 12:50 PM
You really think mikey did not listen to him and it was all the scouts deal..

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Considering Ed Lambert actually coached and worked at Vanderbilt for a decade before the Broncos hired him as a scout to be in charge of the Southeast (SEC divisions, mostly) and he actually goes out and scouts players, where Heimerdinger doesn't - yeah, I'd have to say that the scouting staff had more to do with it than a position coach. Do I think Heimerdinger gave some input? Sure, but Heimerdinger wasn't the deciding factor.

Why don't you go back and read the interviews regarding Fisher's input to Shanahan and then come back in talk. Might want to do a little research on Ed Lambert too.

lex
03-14-2008, 12:53 PM
It was also Ed Lambert's - who coached at Vanderbilt for 10 years before joining the Broncos.

Lambert might be the stronger link but I still say that if the Goodmans are affiliated with UF, they too would have been giving Cutler the highest recommendations. One year before UF won the NC with their stellar defense, they were almost single-handedly undone by Cutler (playing for Vanderbilt) in the Swamp. Lambert was more familiar with Cutler but I find it hard to believe he was the only one lobbying for Cutler.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 12:53 PM
Ding, ding, ding. (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21825968/)


When Shanahan asked for advice on Cutler, Fisher gave him his honest assessment. So, without having spoken directly to Cutler, the Broncos traded up to take the Vanderbilt product.

“Jeff thought the world of him,” Shanahan said on draft day. “Obviously, I liked what I saw on film.”

Shanahan trusted his friend’s scouting report.

“I think it speaks about our relationship,” Fisher said. “Mike and I both understand how competitive this draft is and we had already gone ahead and made our decision. I was glad to help.”

I win.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 12:55 PM
Lambert might be the stronger link but I still say that if the Goodmans are affiliated with UF, they too would have been giving Cutler the highest recommendations. One year before UF won the NC with their stellar defense, they were almost single-handedly undone by Cutler in the Swamp. Lambert was more familiar with Cutler but I find it hard to believe he was the only one lobbying for Cutler.

I'm not saying he was the only one, but he was a very important culprit and being at Vanderbilt for 10 years gave him connections to the university; which obviously were probably pretty helpful. Jim's done a good job (IMHO) and I hope Jeff is an aggressive young buck who will help as well. You're right, those guys dominate the Swamp.

Lonestar
03-14-2008, 12:55 PM
I am saying that Shanahan listens to Goodman more than Sundquist and Heimerdinger which explains how where things are right now with the Goodmans recently promoted and Sundquist and Heimerdinger no longer with the team.

And I must say youre kind of contradicting yourself. Youre pointing to Shanahan trying to use Sundquist as a yes man and if anything, that applies more to Heimerdinger since we know Shanahan didnt give him any autonomy. And if Heimerdinger is yet another in a long line of yes men, why would Shanahan listen to him more than Goodman, especially now that we have seen how things have played out with Heimerdinger leaving for want of more autonomy and the Goodmans being promoted?

And the Goodman promotion doesnt bother me at all if they have a better eye for talent than Sundquist.


What I have consistently said is TED was a yes man, everyone is a yes man to mikey.. It is and has alwyas been mikeys way or the Highway..

Mikey and Dinger were close from college on.. But that did not work out and he bailed to get the hell away form mikey.. For what ever reason he did.. Maybe he saw the hand writing on the wall where this teams is headed.. Maybe he cloud not handle being a yes man anymore..

But the fact is he bailed to a less than lateral move, which IMO speaks volumes about something.. Only Dinger can answer that.

It think that Goodman accepting more responsibility is a non factor as long as he works for mikey, it will still be mikey making the final decision. Just like he has for the past 13 years and it most likely will be a poor one.

Time will tell..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2008, 12:57 PM
Shanahan said he consulted with Titans coach Jeff Fisher, a long-time friend of Shanahan's, about the top three quarterbacks. The Titans had the No. 3 pick Saturday and had extended private workouts with each of the top three passers as well as extended interviews with each as well and ended up taking Texas' Vince Young.

The Titans even had Cutler to their training complex for his first visit in January, just after their regular season ended.

"I like the way he handled himself, I like the way he played,'' Shanahan said. "Jeff didn't feel like he had any flaws. Jeff thought the world of him.''

Another one emphasizing Jeff and not Mike H. (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_4661115,00.html)

lex
03-14-2008, 01:05 PM
What I have consistently said is TED was a yes man, everyone is a yes man to mikey.. It is and has alwyas been mikeys way or the Highway..

Mikey and Dinger were close from college on.. But that did not work out and he bailed to get the hell away form mikey.. For what ever reason he did.. Maybe he saw the hand writing on the wall where this teams is headed.. Maybe he cloud not handle being a yes man anymore..

But the fact is he bailed to a less than lateral move, which IMO speaks volumes about something.. Only Dinger can answer that.

It think that Goodman accepting more responsibility is a non factor as long as he works for mikey, it will still be mikey making the final decision. Just like he has for the past 13 years and it most likely will be a poor one.

Time will tell..

Like I said, it was more likely Heimerdinger was the yes man because his area of expertise also Shanahans and theres really not a lot Heimerdinger can tell Shanahan that Shanahan doesnt already know. But thats on the field stuff, which is directly in Shanahans field of fire. What is not in Shanahans field of fire is scouting. Unless you believe Shanahan watches an entire college football seasons worth of film (and film on free agents) in the span of a few months, its pretty obvious that Shanahan has more reason to rely on his scouts/Sundquist than on Heimerdinger. And I think when it became apparent that he had scouts that were better eveluators of talent, Sundquist became less necessary.

powderaddict
03-14-2008, 01:49 PM
No matter who is in charge of what, the last three drafts IMO have been very good. I don't care who is pulling what strings as long as that streak continues.

This draft and coming season will tell us quite a bit about the direction the franchise is going in.

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2008, 02:07 PM
Considering Ed Lambert actually coached and worked at Vanderbilt for a decade before the Broncos hired him as a scout to be in charge of the Southeast (SEC divisions, mostly) and he actually goes out and scouts players, where Heimerdinger doesn't - yeah, I'd have to say that the scouting staff had more to do with it than a position coach. Do I think Heimerdinger gave some input? Sure, but Heimerdinger wasn't the deciding factor.

Why don't you go back and read the interviews regarding Fisher's input to Shanahan and then come back in talk. Might want to do a little research on Ed Lambert too.

So does this mean we will be drafting CHris Williams?

LRtagger
03-14-2008, 02:38 PM
i hope not

claymore
03-17-2008, 06:49 AM
Denver upheaval
The Broncos dismissal of general manager Ted Sundquist, which came as a surprise to him, was not viewed that way in league circles. The Broncos had been to the playoffs three times in Sundquist's six-year tenure as GM, but a series of questionable personnel moves have kept the Broncos from reaching the ranks of the elite in recent years.

Though the deals to acquire Champ Bailey, Dre Bly and John Lynch significantly upgraded the Broncos' talent, they couldn't offset the disappointing tenures of Daryl Gardener, Gerald Warren, Sam Adams and Simeon Rice. Additionally, the Broncos' drafts under Sundquist's direction only produced one Pro Bowl player (Clinton Portis in 2003) in the past six years.
One league insider said, "They repeatedly gambled on character risks, and none of those moves paid off for them. ... You wonder if they began to feel the pressure after failing to sustain success after their Super Bowl runs."

While some league executives feel that coach Mike Shanahan is absolving himself from responsibility for the Broncos' recent failures, the move to dismiss Sundquist will ultimate leave Shanahan in the crosshairs if the Broncos fail to make significant progress next season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/bucky_brooks/03/14/buzz/index.html


Great take on the situation IMO. But, im not one of the people who blame Shanny for every single personell move.

haroldthebarrel
03-17-2008, 02:58 PM
good riddance.

no room for swedes especially narcissistic ones. in fact from what ive read about this guy he sounds like he has sociopatic tendencies to say the least.