AT 12...OT must come before DT

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I am drinking the Shanny Kool-Aid regarding the fact that he is giving Kuper and Harris every chance to be the starting OTs. That being said, it's clear that after the LB and S signings our 2 biggest weaknesses are OT and DT. What makes this interesting is that I see DT ad the bigger need, but at 12 we are in no man's land in regards to that position. Nobody has discussed our "options" at DT. At OT, we have Harris, Pears, Kuper and will likely add one thru the draft...maybe at 12...maybe later. HOWEVER, there are no real options at DT to go alongside Thomas. Our OLine struggled at times last year partly because of injury and position changes. Our DLine struggles ALL OF LAST YEAR due to complete lack of talent. DT MUST be addressed first and foremost.

The "value" at round 1 OT and round 2 DT seems to be greater than round 1 DT and round 2 OT. By this I mean, we can draft an Otah or Williams or Cherilus (Clady will be gone) at 12 and still get a Laws or Harrison or Sims in round 2. If we stand pat at 12, there is no DT worthy of that spot and there are also no OTs w/ round 2 grades. It seems like there are 5 stud OTs and a bunch of mid rounders...

[lex]

It warms the heart to see people paying more attention to where the value is.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm quite bored tonight and some of the other threads are getting old.

[turftoad]

Unless Dorsey or Ellis falls to #12.

[Lonestar]

DT should be the priority IMO. If one to the BIG two are gone and we can't trade back then address the other needs MLB, FS, OT as to which is the BAP . But for Gods sake stay out of the WR cesspool till at least 4th or 5th rounds..

Mikey has to stop reaching for players that could and should be available later in the draft.. Just because they like them..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't think it's realistic that either of the big 2 DTs falls to 12. Cincy has made it perfectly clear that they want a DT. NO needs one as well. How huge would Dorsey be in New Orleans after a great career in the Bayou? I think Safety and LB have been addressed for this year at least. We may get LB depth in the mid rounds, but I don't see Shanny using a high pick after the FA signings of last week.

[atwater27]

Besides QB, DT and LT are pretty much the most important positions on the team.

[mclark]

Ellis/Dorsey/Clady/Chris Williams.

Left tackle is the most important spot on the offensive line (if you have a right handed qb especially). Otah is a right tackle, run blocker. Clady and Williams are your left tackles.

[mclark]

Besides QB, DT and LT are pretty much the most important positions on the team.

QB, MLB, CBacks, LTackle.

[MHCBill]

I wouldn't be upset with Laws as our #2 pick.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I wouldn't be upset with Laws as our #2 pick.

Me either but I would rather someone a little bigger.

[mclark]

Second round sleeper

Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 315.
Projected 40 Time: 5.18.
Combine 40 Time: 5.17.
Benchx225: 35. Vertical 28.
Projected Round: 2-3.
Ahtyba Rubin should keep moving up draft boards and could eventually sneak into the bottom half of the second round. Solid combine.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I hope DT Frank Okam keeps sliding... We could have another Marcus Thomas like slide again with this guy. Many won't look at him as being a #1 DT talent, but he would go well with our #1 DT...Thomas.

[mclark]

I hope DT Frank Okam keeps sliding... We could have another Marcus Thomas like slide again with this guy. Many won't look at him as being a #1 DT talent, but he would go well with our #1 DT...Thomas.

I agree. If he's still sitting there in the fourth (like Jabba the Hut) I think you have to put a horse-collar on him.

[underrated29]

guys i think that a couple guys are going to fall just to due needs. I think ellis/dorsey and dmac are going to make it to 10 or further. guys like vernon gholston are just tearing up the pro-day and likewise are shooting up the draft boards. Plus you ahve to figure atleast 1 qb is going top 10, plus long, long, and all the other guys. I think if we dont trade up for ellis, that we will be looking at a trade w/ dallas for dmac.

[BOSSHOGG30]

guys i think that a couple guys are going to fall just to due needs. I think ellis/dorsey and dmac are going to make it to 10 or further. guys like vernon gholston are just tearing up the pro-day and likewise are shooting up the draft boards. Plus you ahve to figure atleast 1 qb is going top 10, plus long, long, and all the other guys. I think if we dont trade up for ellis, that we will be looking at a trade w/ dallas for dmac.

Problem is that all those players have been in the top 10 for a long time now... they are just all fighting for position. We need someone that is or was outside the top 10 to jump in the top 10... say Mendenhall, another QB, or a receiver.

[underrated29]

was gholston already in the top 10? i didnt know that. hmm. i would presume that another qb will go in 10, just off of previous drafts someone will jump up, but now that i think about it i doubt it....

[mclark]

I'm just using Scott Wright's mock for reference sake.

For Ellis to fall to us we'd need two of these guys to leap in to the top 12:

Rashad Mendenhall
Jeff Otah
Aqib Talib
Michael Jenkins
Derrick Harvey
Chris Williams
Dominique Cromartie
Kentwan Balmer
Malcolm Kelly
Felix Jones
Brandon Albert
DeShean Jackson
Jonathan Stewart
or who?

I don't see Limas Sweed going this high and I don't see Sedrick Ellis falling; but I also don't see anyone on the above list going in the top 10. What do you guys think?



1. MIAMI DOLPHINS
CHRIS LONG
DE | Virginia | Scouting Report
Make no mistake about it the Dolphins desperately want out of this #1 pick and will do everything they can to trade down but the problem is there might not be much of a market. Their best chance at making a deal would be if Atlanta fell in love with Matt Ryan, which is probably why they are putting it out there that they are looking at the B.C. quarterback as well. Ultimately this pick will come down to Chris Long, Jake Long, Vernon Gholston, Matt Ryan and Sedrick Ellis and I think Howie's boy would get the nod. Not only is Long a perfect fit for Miami's 3-4 scheme but he also possesses the type of intensity and non-stop motor that Bill Parcells covets.
2. ST. LOUIS RAMS
JAKE LONG
OT | Michigan | Scouting Report
If Chris Long is available he'd probably be their choice but since he's done they move to Plan B. A big reason for the Rams horrendous 2007 season was injuries along the offJensive line and after suffering season-ending injuries two years in a row now Orlando Pace simply cannot be counted on. Jake Long is probably just a notch below where Joe Thomas was as a prospect coming out of college and not only can he be a perennial Pro Bowler at right tackle but he has enough athleticism to get by on the left side as well. Glenn Dorsey will also get a look here but they used a first rounder on Adam Carriker last year and they like Clifton Ryan as well.
3. ATLANTA FALCONS
MATT RYAN
QB | Boston College | Scouting Report
Assuming he is still available, which is far from a certainty, Matt Ryan to Atlanta almost makes too much sense not to happen. Many regard Ryan as a franchise signal caller and not only does he have adequate physical tools across the board but his intangibles are top-notch. The Falcons needs a face for their franchise and Matt Ryan can be that guy. If Ryan is off the board Atlanta would most likely turn their attention to Jake Long or Glenn Dorsey, who would both address pressing needs in the trenches. Normally Darren McFadden would be in the mix here as well but his off-the-field issues will probably eliminate him from the equation for Atlanta.
4. OAKLAND RAIDERS
GLENN DORSEY
DT | L.S.U. | Scouting Report
It could be hard for Al Davis to pass on Darren McFadden, who is the type of rare athlete he loves, but Justin Fargas played well down the stretch last year and they just signed him to a new contract so they will likely look to address another need. Even before Warren Sapp's retirement defensive tackle was a huge need so they would probably be happy to see Glenn Dorsey still available. Don't rule out Sedrick Ellis here either though because not only do the Raiders have a history of targeting Trojans but he's a better fit for their defensive scheme than Dorsey is and, at least for the time being, the coaching staff has a lot of ties to the Southern Cal program.
5. KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
RYAN CLADY
OT | Boise St. | Scouting Report
What was once a team strength has now become a major liability so Kansas City almost has to take a blocker with this pick as they begin the monumental task of rebuilding their offensive line. In a perfect world Jake Long would fall into their laps but it doesn't look like that is going to happen so just like the Cardinals with Levi Brown a year ago Kansas City reaches for Ryan Clady at #5 overall. Even though this is undeniably a tad bit early for him Clady is the consensus #2 offensive tackle in this draft and a legitimate Top 10-12 overall talent so this wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for the Chiefs. If Long is gone they could try to trade down too.
6. NEW YORK JETS
DARREN MCFADDEN
RB | Arkansas | Scouting Report
Running back is far from the Jets most glaring weakness but just like when Adrian Peterson fell into the Vikings laps a year ago he might be too good to pass up at this point. Thomas Jones is a solid starter but he didn't set the world on fire in his first season as a Jet so they could definitely use a playmaker on offense. McFadden drops this far due to a combination of teams needs and off-the-field concerns but there is no denying his talent and he could have the type of impact that Peterson did for someone. Vernon Gholston and Sedrick Ellis are most likely the other two possibilites here but if he is available McFadden will probably be tough to pass up.
7. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS (f/SF)
VERNON GHOLSTON
DE | Ohio St. | Scouting Report
Cornerback is also going to be a concern if Asante Samuel bolts as a free agent but for the time being linebacker is the Patriots main issue. It is pretty clear that neither Tedy Bruschi or Junior Seau have much left in the tank and there is basically no depth behind them. Sure Mike Vrabel, Rosie Colvin and Adalius Thomas are all capable of playing inside but if one or even two of them make that move it will just create a hole outside, where there is also a severe lack of depth. A physical marvel and fantastic pass rusher, Gholston was a college defensive end but he should be able to make the transition to outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme at the next level.
8. BALTIMORE RAVENS
LEODIS MCKELVIN
CB | Troy | Scouting Report
There is no question the Ravens would love for Matt Ryan to fall into their laps but that probably isn't going to happen so they'd have to explore a trade up to get in that sweepstakes. With no other quarterback worthy of this high of a choice Ozzie Newsome turns his attention to the secondary, where they have some issues at cornerback. Chris McAlister is still a great player when he is healthy but injuries to him and the aging Samari Rolle really exposed their lack of depth last year. Leodis McKelvin is the top corner available and he's also a terrific return man which should endear him to head coach John Harbaugh, who has a background in special teams.
9. CINCINNATI BENGALS
PHILLIP MERLING
DE | Clemson | Scouting Report
Once again the Bengals defense was horrendous in 2007 so one way or another look for this pick to be devoted to a stud on that side of the ball. One specific area where they could use some help is the defensive line and with Justin Smith leaving as a free agent an end would be a logical choice. Word is Marvin Lewis likes Derrick Harvey so he could be an option here as well but new defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer is a proponent of the 3-4 and Phillip Merling would be a better fit for that scheme. Similar in some ways to Trevor Pryce, Merling could play defensive end in either a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme and can also move inside to tackle in passing situations.
10. NEW ORLEANS SAINTS
SEDRICK ELLIS
DT | USC | Scouting Report
Sedrick Ellis could very easily go in the Top 5 overall and someone might very well trade up for him before he gets to this point but you can be the Saints would jump all over him if he fell this far. Even though New Orleans has some solid players at defensive tackle they lack a true difference maker in the middle so Ellis would be a major upgrade. The cornerback position has been an issue for this franchise for a long time now so they could very well look in that direction here while Keith Rivers could be the impact linebacker they have been searching for. One way or another it's basically a mortal lock that this pick to be used on the best defender available.
11. BUFFALO BILLS
LIMAS SWEED
WR | Texas | Scouting Report
The Bills could go in a lot of different directions here but ultimately there need for a big wide receiver to compliment Lee Evans stands above the rest. The big knock on Limas Sweed was always his speed but he ran in the low-4.5's at the Scouting Combine and that is plenty fast for a guy who checks in at 6-4 and 215 lbs. What puts Sweed over the top here are his intangibles and a guy with his character and work ethic will fit right in with the blueprint the Bills are following in their efforts to rebuild that franchise. Malcolm Kelly could potentially get in the mix here as well but he will have to run well in workouts to justify all of the hype he has been receiving.
12. DENVER BRONCOS
KEITH RIVERS
OLB | USC | Scouting Report
Through all of their defensive struggles in recent years the Broncos have always been able to rely on a great linebacking corps. but now they have issues there too. D.J. Williams will be starting somewhere but that is the only sure-thing right now and there have been reports that Ian Gold is on the trading block. Keith Rivers is the consensus top linebacker in this draft and his ability to play multiple positions, especially in Denver's scheme, just adds to his value. The Broncos still have issues at defensive tackle so they could reach for someone like Kentwan Balmer here and even though there isn't a safety worth this high of a pick that is a concern as well.

[turftoad]

When was that mock last updated. Must have been before we signed our two new LB's?

[mclark]

When was that mock last updated. Must have been before we signed our two new LB's?

Feb 27.

We've obviously committed to moving DJ back to weakside, so drafting Rivers doesn't make sense. Unless we want to stab Niko in the back and make him play special teams only and keep DJ in the middle -- which I seriously doubt will happen.

[Bronco9798]

Ive been yelling for an OT for a few weeks. I'm still not sold on Dorsey at the next level and he probably won't be there. Just not a good feeling for me.

I hope we take the best available OT at 12. If we go RB at 12, I'm going to be a little disturbed. I like the value and the shelf life of an OT more than a RB. Cutler needs protection for a long time. We need to find a LT and get him settled in for the long run with Cutler and that line. I don't think Harris is the answer at LT.

[mclark]

Problem is that all those players have been in the top 10 for a long time now... they are just all fighting for position. We need someone that is or was outside the top 10 to jump in the top 10... say Mendenhall, another QB, or a receiver.

Exactly. That was what I was trying to illustrate with my list. A couple of those guys have to jump in to the top 10 for us to get any shot at Ellis or Dorsey. I don't think we'll get that kind of movement -- but who knows.

[mclark]

Ive been yelling for an OT for a few weeks. I'm still not sold on Dorsey at the next level and he probably won't be there. Just not a good feeling for me.

I hope we take the best available OT at 12. If we go RB at 12, I'm going to be a little disturbed. I like the value and the shelf life of an OT more than a RB. Cutler needs protection for a long time. We need to find a LT and get him settled in for the long run with Cutler and that line. I don't think Harris is the answer at LT.

I think I'd take Dorsey at 12 and look for an offensive tackle in the second round.

But, with Dorsey gone -- I fully expect him to be gone -- OT makes the most sense at the moment. It would be nice to lock up a LTackle for the next 12 years, if we make the right pick.

[Lonestar]

I think I'd take Dorsey at 12 and look for an offensive tackle in the second round.

But, with Dorsey gone -- I fully expect him to be gone -- OT makes the most sense at the moment. It would be nice to lock up a LTackle for the next 12 years, if we make the right pick.

just let someone besides mikey make the pick..PLEASE

[Joel]

If your need is for the one or two players who'll put your playoff team over the top, then go for that; having a fourth Pro Bowl safety won't help you.

If your need is to truly rebuild a team, then you need to go for the best thing out there, because you have lots of holes, so if he doesn't fill one now, he will soon. Regardless, the surest sign of a rebuilding year (or three... ) is a good draft position (our hasn't been this good in ten years; yea...?) and since you WILL (hopefully... ) improve it won't be as good in the future, so use it while you can. Best argument for trading into an earlier spot, IMHO, and I'd probably trade a team with a top five spot my first and second round picks for their first and third.

So where are we? Where is Foxworth, and what's our safety situation? Who's our Sam, and who backs up whom if someone's hurt for a while? For that matter, same question, to a lesser degree, on our line, with Harris largely an unknown quantity still (unless you drink Notre Dame Kool-Aid.... ) On the other hand, we have talent under center, Nalen (as far as I know... ) and three, maybe four pretty good pretty young linemen who'll get better. We also have several good WRs, a good TE and a good back. We're basically a 7-9 team, so I'd say go for best value early, need later, with "early" and "later" being defined by your own perspective. If it's a bad year for your need it's foolish to get it unless you're CERTAIN it will pay off in Lombardis, and you usually need that certainty about year two or three, not year one.

MY priorities are a legit stud MLB to play with D.J. and Gold (D.J. is still Mike, but the rookie starts at Sam and learns as he sacks... ) and a legit stud NT who can dominate the LOS, demand doubles, collapse the pocket, occupy blockers, stuff the run, and just generally control the middle while the ends and LBs run free on the edges with Marcus Thomas and/or McKinley. But I haven't a clue how the class looks for that, and I do think we need a solid LT, if only in case of injury.

[LRtagger]

MY priorities are a legit stud MLB to play with D.J. and Gold (D.J. is still Mike, but the rookie starts at Sam and learns as he sacks... ) and a legit stud NT who can dominate the LOS, demand doubles, collapse the pocket, occupy blockers, stuff the run, and just generally control the middle while the ends and LBs run free on the edges with Marcus Thomas and/or McKinley. But I haven't a clue how the class looks for that, and I do think we need a solid LT, if only in case of injury.

Gold was released and we picked up Boss Bailey to play SAM and Niko to compete for starting Mike. This allows us to move DJ to WILL. I think it would be smart to draft a MLB on day two.

I'm not sure we need a NT either, since we run a 4-3, but I think everyone agrees DT is one of our biggest needs. Besides Dorsey and Ellis, it will be hard to pick up a DT in the draft that will make an immediate impact. I think a big hope was to pick one up via trade, but that hasn't happened yet.

The safety position looks OK for 2008, but drafting a Safety wouldnt be a bad idea since this will more than likely be Lynch's last year and McCree only signed a 1 year deal I think.

LT is obviously a big hole as well that I assume we will address via the draft (probably pick one up on day one and another OL on day two).

We have a lot of young talent and a very bright future, but I dont think any moves we make this offseason will get us to the Super Bowl this year. We are at least 2 (if not 3 or 4) years out from being the dominant force we once were.

[Watchthemiddle]

At #12 ( if we keep it) I believe we need someone who can step in and start from day 1.

A DT or RB can do that, but not so sure an OT can.

I want and immediate impact player. I am leaning more and more to a dominate RB who can help us score points. We seemed to have a problem doing that last year....and a dominate DT. We seemed to have a problem stopping the run as well.

[TXBRONC]

At #12 ( if we keep it) I believe we need someone who can step in and start from day 1.

A DT or RB can do that, but not so sure an OT can.

I want and immediate impact player. I am leaning more and more to a dominate RB who can help us score points. We seemed to have a problem doing that last year....and a dominate DT. We seemed to have a problem stopping the run as well.

I don't think a defensive tackle would necessasrily make an immediate impact. Like quarterbacks, wide receivers, and offensive linemen they generally take a couple of years to develop.

[Simple Jaded]

Unless Dorsey falls to #12.


That's better......