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KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-11-2010, 05:47 PM
Trivia: What do these four quarterbacks have in common?


Answer: None of them could hold John Elway's jockstrap.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj202/gjscorp11/Elway.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z89/jered_weaver_fan/Traded%20and%20Sold/JKelly_JElway_AutoGU2.jpg

Buff
02-11-2010, 05:49 PM
Jason Whitlock wrote a column today saying Elway is the greatest football player of all time.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-11-2010, 05:50 PM
Jason Whitlock wrote a column today saying Elway is the greatest football player of all time.

Thanks man, you think you could link that? I think Montana was the most effective but I don't think he would have survived on some of the Broncos teams Elway played for. Therefor, Elway is the best ever. :beer::salute:

Buff
02-11-2010, 05:59 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

Northman
02-11-2010, 06:02 PM
Elway, hands down.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-11-2010, 06:53 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

Thanks I'm gonna check that out now.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-11-2010, 06:56 PM
WOW - Jason is now my FAVORITE writer :D

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

Here are the 10 greatest QBs of all time:

1. John Elway: Tremendous athleticism. He was Vince Young, except he could throw it accurately to any place on the field. Defensive coordinators and safeties feared his long arm so much that running backs Gaston Green, Bobby Humphrey and Sammy Winder all earned Pro Bowl berths taking handoffs from Elway. But the myth is Elway benefitted from Terrell Davis and Davis didn't benefit from Elway. Elway made the Broncos relevant and dangerous for 16 straight years.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-11-2010, 07:06 PM
Yeah, I encourage everyone to read the whole piece, it was outstanding and it included most of the things we Broncos fans have been saying for many years.

DenBronx
02-11-2010, 10:15 PM
dang if all those qb's can't hold his jockstrap then what does that make orton?

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-11-2010, 10:24 PM
dang if all those qb's can't hold his jockstrap then what does that make orton?

A pretty reliable guy who can keep the seat warm for the next John Elway. Also a great team leader and hard working player.

-#128

broncophan
02-11-2010, 11:11 PM
WOW - Jason is now my FAVORITE writer :D

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

Here are the 10 greatest QBs of all time:

1. John Elway: Tremendous athleticism. He was Vince Young, except he could throw it accurately to any place on the field. Defensive coordinators and safeties feared his long arm so much that running backs Gaston Green, Bobby Humphrey and Sammy Winder all earned Pro Bowl berths taking handoffs from Elway. But the myth is Elway benefitted from Terrell Davis and Davis didn't benefit from Elway. Elway made the Broncos relevant and dangerous for 16 straight years.

I miss seeing Sammy Winder doing his Mississippi Mudslide......(I think that is what he called it...)

Elway "was Vince Young"..etc......Vince young does not deserve to even be in the same sentence/paragraph etc. as Elway...sounds like something Jason Whitlock would say though...

King87
02-11-2010, 11:25 PM
Three of those guys are better than John, and Brees is well on his way.

jrelway
02-11-2010, 11:25 PM
dang if all those qb's can't hold his jockstrap then what does that make orton?

tommy maddox, bubby brister, or gary kubiaks jock strap holder.

jrelway
02-11-2010, 11:28 PM
sigh..id give my left nut to have a young john elway running this team again. his bowl cut and horse teeth make me blush.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-11-2010, 11:36 PM
I miss seeing Sammy Winder doing his Mississippi Mudslide......(I think that is what he called it...)

Elway "was Vince Young"..etc......Vince young does not deserve to even be in the same sentence/paragraph etc. as Elway...sounds like something Jason Whitlock would say though...

Sammy was known for a signature touchdown celebration he called the 'Mississippi Mud Walk'.

broncophan
02-11-2010, 11:38 PM
Sammy was known for a signature touchdown celebration he called the 'Mississippi Mud Walk'.

lol.....thanks......I knew it was something like that.....I will have to look for that on Youtube...:D

broncofaninfla
02-12-2010, 09:12 AM
I don't think there will ever be a clear cut "Best ever QB" but certainly Elway makes a very good case to be considered. With that being said he is my favorite and I were ever able to have a all time best team vote and was able to chose any QB, from any era, from any team I would go with Elway first. He was perfect for the Broncos and will forever be Mr. Bronco.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-12-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't think there will ever be a clear cut "Best ever QB" but certainly Elway makes a very good case to be considered. With that being said he is my favorite and I were ever able to have a all time best team vote and was able to chose any QB, from any era, from any team I would go with Elway first. He was perfect for the Broncos and will forever be Mr. Bronco.

Drafted to be a colt, destined to be a BRONCO. :salute:

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
02-14-2010, 11:55 PM
I love Elway just as much as all Broncos fans. But to say he is the best football player of all time is silly. I think Jerry Rice is hands down.

Northman
02-15-2010, 07:00 AM
I love Elway just as much as all Broncos fans. But to say he is the best football player of all time is silly. I think Jerry Rice is hands down.

I didnt know Jerry played QB. :confused:

Ravage!!!
02-15-2010, 11:26 AM
That's where Elway shines. How did Montana do with the Chiefs? (without rice)

Took them to their only playoff win since 1969 and to the AFC Championship game... their only since 1969....after beating Elway in a one-on-one Monday Night game that is still rated the best Monday Night game to be played.

Elway was my man, and I consider him to be the GREATEST PLAYER (not just QB) to play the game (remember, Jerry Rice had two HoF QBs throwing him the ball), but Montana was the real thing.

Broncolingus
02-15-2010, 11:57 AM
Best ever...#7

Period...

I am so sick of hearing about how Montana is the standard by which all others are measured...

If Elway and Montana had simply switched places, Joe Montana couldn't have taken ONE of those Denver teams in the 80s to the Super Bowl...and Elway would've won AT LEAST 4 Super Bowls with the 49ers.

Clay could've won a Super Bowl with one of those 49er teams in the 80s...

Denver Native (Carol)
02-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Best ever...#7

Period...

I am so sick of hearing about how Montana is the standard by which all others are measured...

If Elway and Montana had simply switched places, Joe Montana couldn't have taken ONE of those Denver teams in the 80s to the Super Bowl...and Elway would've won AT LEAST 4 Super Bowls with the 49ers.

Clay could've won a Super Bowl with one of those 49er teams in the 80s...

Great post - it also amazes me how Montana gets praise for throwing dink and dunk 5 yard passes to Rice, with Rice running 70 yards for a TD.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30653/nfl-with-chris-mortensen

jason (atlanta)

alot of people have elway as number 1 or 2 all time qb, i didnt know he had lost 3 superbowls before winning 2. do those 3 losses tarnish his legacy?

Chris Mortensen
(11:32 AM)


No, for those who really remember, Elway was credited with carrying three fairly mediocre teams to those Super Bowls he lost. Very few, if any QBs, could have taken those teams to the Super Bowl. Elway's ability at his peak - arm strength, competitiveness and mobility - would have played well in any era.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/945884.html

Q: Considering the Colts lost the Super Bowl, where does Peyton Manning rank on the list of all-time greatest quarterbacks combining both college AND pro careers? - DB

A: So basically youre asking whos the Greatest Quarterback Of All-Time, Period. John Elway is the greatest NFL quarterback ever, and its not really debatable. Forget about the two Super Bowl wins, his Super Bowl losses were even more impressive because he carried mediocre teams on his back just to get there. Talent-wise, hes the ultimate all-time prospect with smarts, arm, mobility, accuracy the total package. Throw in the game-winning drives, the big moments (like The Drive), and the wins, and no one did more in the NFL and no one was as talented.

Northman
02-15-2010, 02:01 PM
Great post - it also amazes me how Montana gets praise for throwing dink and dunk 5 yard passes to Rice, with Rice running 70 yards for a TD.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30653/nfl-with-chris-mortensen

jason (atlanta)

alot of people have elway as number 1 or 2 all time qb, i didnt know he had lost 3 superbowls before winning 2. do those 3 losses tarnish his legacy?

Chris Mortensen
(11:32 AM)


No, for those who really remember, Elway was credited with carrying three fairly mediocre teams to those Super Bowls he lost. Very few, if any QBs, could have taken those teams to the Super Bowl. Elway's ability at his peak - arm strength, competitiveness and mobility - would have played well in any era.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/945884.html

Q: Considering the Colts lost the Super Bowl, where does Peyton Manning rank on the list of all-time greatest quarterbacks combining both college AND pro careers? - DB

A: So basically youre asking whos the Greatest Quarterback Of All-Time, Period. John Elway is the greatest NFL quarterback ever, and its not really debatable. Forget about the two Super Bowl wins, his Super Bowl losses were even more impressive because he carried mediocre teams on his back just to get there. Talent-wise, hes the ultimate all-time prospect with smarts, arm, mobility, accuracy the total package. Throw in the game-winning drives, the big moments (like The Drive), and the wins, and no one did more in the NFL and no one was as talented.


Damn straight.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-15-2010, 02:10 PM
Damn straight.

Well, since you liked that, here is another one :D

http://miamimigraine.blogspot.com/2008/03/not-greatest-quarterback-of-all-time_30.html


1) Teammates

Football’s a team sport and obviously Montana didn’t win four Super Bowls by himself. I already pointed out in my Dan Marino post just how great the 1984 49ers were. And most of the great players on that squad had already won a title on the 1981 Niners. On offense, four All-Pro lineman protected Montana from his opponents’ pass rush. Montana could pass to his All-Pro receiver Dwight Clark, or hand off (or pass to) to his great backs Wendell Tyler and Roger Craig. Montana’s teams rarely trailed by many points as that defense featured arguably the greatest secondary of all-time, plus great pass-rushers like Hall-of-Famer Fred Dean and four-time all-pro Keena Turner. By 1988-1989 some of those players had retired or were past their prime. No problem. San Francisco just added the likes of Jerry Rice, the greatest freaking receiver of all-time, All-Pro tight end Brent Jones, and All-Pro lineman Harris Barton to the offense, while the defense added a seemingly inexhaustible supply of All-Pros like Charles Haley, Matt Millen, Mike Walter, Don Griffin, Kevin Fagan, Pierce Holt, and probably some more I’m missing. It’s endless! God, did the Niners ever miss in the draft? Honestly, every one of Montana’s Super Bowl squads was loaded. They had no weaknesses. And let’s not forget that the greatest offensive mind of the last three decades (maybe ever!) designed the offense and called the plays: Bill Walsh.

So how much was Joe and how much was the rest of the team? We know the Niners kept right on winning after Montana left though they added just one more title. No one can take away anything that Montana accomplished. But if he’d traded places with Dan Marino or John Elway, would those guys have won titles in the 1980's like Montana did and conversely, could Montana have elevated their less-talented teams to championships? The answer seems obvious to me. If Montana and Marino switched places in Super Bowl XIX than Dan Marino would be wearing at least one ring right now. I’m pretty sure Bill Walsh could have designed a few plays to take advantage of Marino’s skills while Montana wouldn’t have been doing anything but running for his life at QB for the Dolphins.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-15-2010, 05:21 PM
Carol is johnny on the spot as always!

It's settled, it's irrefutable, elway=best quarterback ever!

girler
02-15-2010, 08:37 PM
I miss seeing Sammy Winder doing his Mississippi Mudslide......(I think that is what he called it...)

Elway "was Vince Young"..etc......Vince young does not deserve to even be in the same sentence/paragraph etc. as Elway...sounds like something Jason Whitlock would say though...

I loved Sammy when he was on the team, but he drove me insane. That boy NEVER turned the corner! :frusty: :laugh:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
02-15-2010, 08:44 PM
I loved Sammy when he was on the team, but he drove me insane. That boy NEVER turned the corner! :frusty: :laugh:

I know, he was a very hard runner but thought he was a bulldozer and stubbornly ran right AT the defense instead of away from the defense!

Broncolingus
02-15-2010, 11:21 PM
I loved Sammy when he was on the team, but he drove me insane. That boy NEVER turned the corner! :frusty: :laugh:

Famous saying in the 80s while listening to KOA...

"Sammy Winder is the kind of running back that when you need two yards - he'd get you two yards. Sammy Winder is also the kind of running back that when you need three yards - he'd get you two yards."

(...I loved Winder too, BTW...)

CoachChaz
02-16-2010, 08:20 AM
I think the thing that puts Elway at the top of the list for me is the "moments". Mortenson kind of hit on what I'm talking about in his reponse. I loved Elway, but I'm not a total homer. I've always watched football and the careers of other great players closely. The thing that puts Elway ahead of the others for me are the special "moments". How many "DRIVES" do Favre, Manning, Montana, etc have? How many come from behind wins? How many 10 yards scrambles while breaking 5 tackles on 3rd and 8?

Elway always seemed to have a moment in every game where he just amazed people. He may not have the overall skill or numbers as the others, but he had the extra something that created memories. That's what was special about him. Just like the debate between Emmitt and Sanders. Emmitt may hold the rushing record...but no one created memories like Barry did.

King87
02-16-2010, 05:08 PM
If you're going on big moments Elway is behind Montana by a mile. What magical drive did he have in the SB? At that point he's behind even Brady. Those big moments are another way of saying "clutch". Well, Elway is remembered for a lot of drives, but he isn't remembered for being clutch in SBs. In fact, until he had an awesome team around him at the end of his he lost three SBs, where were those 'moments'?

He has claim to being the G.O.A.T., I could never deny that, but in an era were winning means everything he wasn't really a winner. I wouldn't hold him only winning with a stacked team around him against him because most SB teams are stacked. But look at his turnover ratio, he has a higher rate of INTs per pass than a lot of guys, including Favre.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-16-2010, 05:30 PM
If you're going on big moments Elway is behind Montana by a mile. What magical drive did he have in the SB? At that point he's behind even Brady. Those big moments are another way of saying "clutch". Well, Elway is remembered for a lot of drives, but he isn't remembered for being clutch in SBs. In fact, until he had an awesome team around him at the end of his he lost three SBs, where were those 'moments'?

He has claim to being the G.O.A.T., I could never deny that, but in an era were winning means everything he wasn't really a winner. I wouldn't hold him only winning with a stacked team around him against him because most SB teams are stacked. But look at his turnover ratio, he has a higher rate of INTs per pass than a lot of guys, including Favre.

I could see Montana doing the "helicopter" :rofl::rofl:

Dirk
02-16-2010, 06:21 PM
I could see Montana doing the "helicopter" :rofl::rofl:

Or scrambling away from multiple tackles for a first down. :lol:

Northman
02-16-2010, 06:24 PM
If you're going on big moments Elway is behind Montana by a mile. What magical drive did he have in the SB? At that point he's behind even Brady. Those big moments are another way of saying "clutch". Well, Elway is remembered for a lot of drives, but he isn't remembered for being clutch in SBs. In fact, until he had an awesome team around him at the end of his he lost three SBs, where were those 'moments'?

He has claim to being the G.O.A.T., I could never deny that, but in an era were winning means everything he wasn't really a winner. I wouldn't hold him only winning with a stacked team around him against him because most SB teams are stacked. But look at his turnover ratio, he has a higher rate of INTs per pass than a lot of guys, including Favre.

You make some valid points but again Montana had to comeback with "better" talent on his roster than Elway had. Which explains a lot of the blowouts he faced in those Super Bowls. But again, would Montana ever even have gotten there with Denver's talent back then? I dont think so.

Ziggy
02-16-2010, 06:37 PM
If you're going on big moments Elway is behind Montana by a mile. What magical drive did he have in the SB? At that point he's behind even Brady. Those big moments are another way of saying "clutch". Well, Elway is remembered for a lot of drives, but he isn't remembered for being clutch in SBs. In fact, until he had an awesome team around him at the end of his he lost three SBs, where were those 'moments'?

He has claim to being the G.O.A.T., I could never deny that, but in an era were winning means everything he wasn't really a winner. I wouldn't hold him only winning with a stacked team around him against him because most SB teams are stacked. But look at his turnover ratio, he has a higher rate of INTs per pass than a lot of guys, including Favre.

1997. John Elway led his Broncos to yet another 4th quarter comeback in the biggest game on the planet. Green Bay was favored by 2 TD's, and up in the 4th. Enter John Elway. Denver broke the will of the Pack so badly on that drive that they chose to let Denver score on the last play of the drive. Why? Because they knew they couldn't stop them, and hoped that Favre could drive down for the win if he had enough time.

King87
02-16-2010, 06:43 PM
1997. John Elway led his Broncos to yet another 4th quarter comeback in the biggest game on the planet. Green Bay was favored by 2 TD's, and up in the 4th. Enter John Elway. Denver broke the will of the Pack so badly on that drive that they chose to let Denver score on the last play of the drive. Why? Because they knew they couldn't stop them, and hoped that Favre could drive down for the win if he had enough time.

Uhh............

Wha?

He broke the will of the Packers and they let him score?

Let's think about that for a second, if you admit that they 'let him score' then they let him score....

I saw the game, I've seen the replays, if they let anyone score it was Davis...

Ziggy
02-16-2010, 07:55 PM
They let the Broncos score, once they got down by the goal line. Why, because they knew the Broncos would run the clock down and score anyway. That's called breaking the will of your opponent. And yes, Davis got the TD, but Elway led the drive.

King87
02-16-2010, 08:16 PM
They let the Broncos score, once they got down by the goal line. Why, because they knew the Broncos would run the clock down and score anyway. That's called breaking the will of your opponent. And yes, Davis got the TD, but Elway led the drive.

So they let Terrell Davis the running back score?


Do you not see where I'm going with this? When they talk about the legend of Elway it's the drive against Cleveland that people talk about.

Elway had big overall numbers for his career, which is a plus, but he turned the ball over a lot.

In regards to winning, he's elite in the sense that he won two SBs and not so hot in the sense that he lost three.

It's kind of hard to be the greatest QB of all-time when you're not the best stat guy or the best winner.

Ziggy
02-16-2010, 08:27 PM
You have valid points that are arguable King. You've always shown yourself to have a high football IQ. In your post that I quoted, you asked where Elway's magical drive in the SB was. A 4th quarter comeback drive in the SB more than qualifies. I don't care who scored. If you were watching the game, you know that the Broncos owned the Pack D. So much so, that they knew they had to let Denver score EARLY to give Favre a chance to come back. They knew they couldn't stop that offense. It doesn't matter if Elway or TD scored on the drive. Elway engineered the drive. The fact that they LET Denver score early speaks to how dominant the Broncos were in that 4th quarter. If you don't think that a 4th quarter comeback drive in the SB counts as a "magical" drive in the SB, then you're sadly mistaken. I understand that the Bengals were on the other end of it in thier SB, so in that regard you should understand it even more.

King87
02-16-2010, 08:44 PM
You have valid points that are arguable King. You've always shown yourself to have a high football IQ. In your post that I quoted, you asked where Elway's magical drive in the SB was. A 4th quarter comeback drive in the SB more than qualifies. I don't care who scored. If you were watching the game, you know that the Broncos owned the Pack D. So much so, that they knew they had to let Denver score EARLY to give Favre a chance to come back. They knew they couldn't stop that offense. It doesn't matter if Elway or TD scored on the drive. Elway engineered the drive. The fact that they LET Denver score early speaks to how dominant the Broncos were in that 4th quarter. If you don't think that a 4th quarter comeback drive in the SB counts as a "magical" drive in the SB, then you're sadly mistaken. I understand that the Bengals were on the other end of it in thier SB, so in that regard you should understand it even more.
Actually they were on the other end of it in their Super Bowls, but I'll take that as nothing more than a subtle jab. ;)

So, I'm still curious, if Elway isn't the best stat guy, or the best winner, and out of all the guys in the middle (Favre, Elway, Peyton Manning) why is he the greatest?

He's not.

If I want a pure winner I'll take Montana. He's not the greatest to me because his teams were so beastly that I could take Elway and put him in Montana's place and I don't think you'd miss anything.

But, if I just wanted a pure winner, it'd have to be Joe Montana.

If I want a stat god, I'll take Favre, although it will soon be Manning's title, and Marino certainly has a claim to that.

I understand that Elway took teams that were only good and not great to the SB. I don't buy into the "woe is Elway, his teams all suck but he took them to the SB." His teams didn't suck. They weren't bad. They weren't great. They were good. Great teams make it to the SB, even the Bears team that lost to the Colts a few years back were great, barring their terrible QB.

Elway is a middle guy. He and a lot of other guys have some rings but aren't in the upper winner's club like Montana, Brady or even Terry Bradshaw.

For the record, anyone who thinks Bradshaw is a better QB than Elway is a moron. But, he has more rings. That doesn't mean he's better, it means that some QBs didn't have the luck to play on the Steel Curtain teams.

Why is Elway better than Bradshaw? He has way better stats, played with worse players and has a main reason why his teams won.

But it cuts both ways. We know that winning doesn't make you great. Brady has more rings than Elway but I'd take Elway over Brady pretty easily. However, I want stats and a ring is nice. Elway wasn't the stat god, he had great career stats over a career but he was never a consistent stat beast. So if we know that Elway is better than Bradshaw for those reasons despite the rings, it's pretty easy to figure out that guys in Elway's boat (a ring or two with good numbers but not the gaudy amount of rings) could be better than him.

Enter Peyton Manning, who definitely is better than Elway.

Enter Favre, who is definitely better than Elway.

I'd probably take Dan Marino over Elway. I mean he carried his team just as much as Elway did.

Ziggy
02-16-2010, 08:52 PM
Actually they were on the other end of it in their Super Bowls, but I'll take that as nothing more than a subtle jab. ;)



That's exactly what I said. It wasn't a jab, just a point that because of it you should understand just how magical a 4th qtr comeback drive is in the SB.

KCL
02-16-2010, 09:57 PM
I heard that Joe Montana was pretty good in those 4th Qtr last second come from behind games....;)

Bronco Bible
02-26-2010, 05:30 PM
They let the Broncos score, once they got down by the goal line. Why, because they knew the Broncos would run the clock down and score anyway. That's called breaking the will of your opponent. And yes, Davis got the TD, but Elway led the drive.

JMO they did not LET anyone score that day, they may say they did ,but in reality would anyone let anyone score in the Super Bowl?