Scheme???

[gobroncsnv]

The biggest selling point to Koutouvides, who played the previous four seasons in Seattle? The film session...

I was looking at Denver's defense and I thought I was looking at our defense in Seattle," Koutouvides said. "One reason I chose Denver was because their terminology was almost identical to what we had in Seattle. It was amazing how similar it was.

From an article in the Denver post - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8506688.

I really found this interesting, in that this player noticed the similarities in schemes that Denver played compared to Seattle. Yet Seattle finished with the 6th best scoring defense last year. We finished at 28th.
This is an NFL player (not me) saying that we had VERY similar schemes. So could it be that the difference between our "success" and and theirs was the quality players who played in these "schemes"? I've already drawn my conclusion. The more we try to get better players this year just cements the argument.

[MHCBill]

Except... we aren't running that "scheme" anymore.

[DenBronx]

that was last years scheme with bates. now with slowik i think a few things will change. who knows though, he might keep the termenology just to keep it simple.

[gobroncsnv]

Except, the point of this is that scheme wasn't the problem. They had better players, and their results compared to ours speak volumes about our real problem last year. Again, if we keep trying to just change scheme without improving on the players we have, we'll end up right back near dead last in defensive stats again. I'm hoping that the guys we've signed so far ARE improvements... Gold is gone, so we've gotten started. But I really haven't seen that blockbuster yet who will get us where we need to be, especially on the line, which was our most gaping hole. So it's not HOW we have our guys play D nearly so much as WHO we have playing D.

[MHCBill]

Yes, Seattle has better players on defense.

[Hobe]

Which scheme? The one in the first half or the one in the second half of the season?

[turftoad]

Do we have a scheme yet??

[Scarface]

Wow, I can't believe some of you actually believe Niko signed up for Jim Bates' scheme.:tsk:

He's talking about Slowik's scheme!!!:listen:

[underrated29]

well i am not so worried about about which scheme...bates or slows. The thing that stuck out to me was his recognition of the schemes. To me it shoes that he is a smart player and can pick up new things quickly. A lot of schemes and terminology out there are similiar, and most of the time they change year to year (terminalogy.)

So he was able to see they were similiar in type and sound at first glance. Most teams pretty much run the same formations, with little tweaks and names, but he was also able to recognise what we like to do and apply it to his past experience (as a backup) and chose to go here.

[Hoshdude7]

Wow, I can't believe some of you actually believe Niko signed up for Jim Bates' scheme.:tsk:

He's talking about Slowik's scheme!!!:listen:

You get a cookie :congrats:

[gobroncsnv]

Wow, I can't believe some of you actually believe Niko signed up for Jim Bates' scheme.:tsk:

He's talking about Slowik's scheme!!!:listen:


He was talking about watching last year's film session, y'know, like Denver's defense... I am listening...

[yardog]

I'm glade he had the stomach to watch it.

[gobroncsnv]

well i am not so worried about about which scheme...bates or slows. The thing that stuck out to me was his recognition of the schemes. To me it shoes that he is a smart player and can pick up new things quickly. A lot of schemes and terminology out there are similiar, and most of the time they change year to year (terminalogy.)

So he was able to see they were similiar in type and sound at first glance. Most teams pretty much run the same formations, with little tweaks and names, but he was also able to recognise what we like to do and apply it to his past experience (as a backup) and chose to go here.

EXACTLY!!! We were all worried about what Bates ran last year, wondering about what Slowik will run this year... Reminded me of the way that so many teams in the 70's and 80's were running the wishbone offense, but Oklahoma did the best at it BECAUSE THEY HAD THE BEST PLAYERS!!!
My concern is (here we go again) that now that we've changed "schemes" AGAIN, we're gonna have to wait (how long) until the players get used to the schemes... all the while, it's more a problem that we don't have a solid Dline (yet). And I can't think of any great defense that did well without one. Makes me want to refer to the definition of insanity, trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.
So that's why I'm hoping we really go after at least one GNARLY DT instead of settling for cast-offs or second tier types yet again. But that's just me...

[tubby]

Slowik's scheme = Coyer's scheme - Coyer and Al Wilson.

[gobroncsnv]

Slowik's scheme = Coyer's scheme - Coyer and Al Wilson.
And Coyer's scheme never had a good dline.

[dogfish]

we've been in agreement on this for a few years now-- regardless of what scheme we run, we're never going to have a good defense until we get better personnel in the front seven. . . whether niko and boss are actually the upgrade people want them to be, we simply can't know until we see them play here-- i'm HOPEFUL, but i won't consider them much in the way of upgrades until they prove it. . . i AM very hopeful that our young DLs will play at a higher level this year, but IMO we're definitely one DT away from where we need to be, even in an ideal scenario. . .

[AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY]

And Coyer's scheme never had a good dline.

and it never will

[Npba900]

Hopefully, Slowick's scheme will be to allow the players to line up mano on mano and play aggressive smash mouth football and let the chips fall where they may.

Slowick needs to make a phone call to M. Thomas, J. Moss, T. Crowder, and let them know that they are the starters and hand them the playbook now; so they learn what they're individual responsibilites are and what the team concept on Defense will be.

The last thing Slowick and Shanny need to do is is to rotate or not start consistently Marcus, Moss, and Crowder, let them sink or swim in 2008. Put these guys out there in the trenches NOW and see if they are the answer! Let's not wait 3 years down the road to find out that Moss, Crowder, and Thomas are not the answer.

[Bronco9798]

Moss hasn't earned anything. You just don't hand him a starting job in March. You make them all compete and earn the starting job. These are young guys that need to compete and not given anything.

[broncosfanscott]

Scheme?? Whatever makes up a better team and uses our players in the best way I will be happy with.

[TXBRONC]

that was last years scheme with bates. now with slowik i think a few things will change. who knows though, he might keep the termenology just to keep it simple.

That I wouldn't doubt.

[Superchop 7]

I doubt he was looking at the scheme where the ends played next to the wide receivers. (Bates) They don't do that in Seattle.

He was probably looking at Minnesota game, where we played alot of man coverage. (and Paymah was lights out)

[gobroncsnv]

Well, the main point is that we won't get anything done by counting on semantics, terminology, and scheme WITHOUT some serious upgrade at DT. The article didn't go on to say which game he was looking at, just saying that he watched film sessions of our D. I haven't followed Boss enough to know the quality of his game at SAM, but I don't recall too many pro bowlers from Detroit (the only way we get to hear about any Lions players). I know that, if DJ plays WILL, we have done a GREAT job of upgrading over Gold. Koutouvides (I think I spelled it right this time) will have to show us he's ready to be more than just a fill-in player. When we signed him, I tried to stifle a yawn, but I seriously don't know his game. I'd be ok with our ends, if they learn to hold the corners a little better on running plays. And I DO think that Thomas will be good, WHEN we have someone to be able to crush a pocket from the other DT position. Once again, in my boat, we need to learn the lesson of this year's SB. The Giants brought the best front 4 to the game, and it was good enough to put Brady and Belly on their collective classless butts.

[Rick]

While scheme MAY have been part of why he came here and it may be what he is saying but i can guarentee that the PRIMARY reason a guy who has been a back up for years came here was to start...whatever the scheme.

And to the remarks of starting Moss, while he may end up a great player, at thispoint Ekubon is more polished and also can't ignore Doom who DID manage a dozen sacks a year ago.

I am not ready to hand the reins to Moss yet.

What I actually would not mind is since we are wanting our DTs to go back to attacking now rather than lane cloggers likelast year is to have Crowder put on some weight and see if he could work out at DT.

Then if Moss can put it together we can have a line that features Moss, Doom, Thomas, Crowder attacking the QB.

But again, Moss is not ready to just be handed the reins yet.

[Joel]

EXACTLY!!! We were all worried about what Bates ran last year, wondering about what Slowik will run this year... Reminded me of the way that so many teams in the 70's and 80's were running the wishbone offense, but Oklahoma did the best at it BECAUSE THEY HAD THE BEST PLAYERS!!!
My concern is (here we go again) that now that we've changed "schemes" AGAIN, we're gonna have to wait (how long) until the players get used to the schemes... all the while, it's more a problem that we don't have a solid Dline (yet). And I can't think of any great defense that did well without one. Makes me want to refer to the definition of insanity, trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.
So that's why I'm hoping we really go after at least one GNARLY DT instead of settling for cast-offs or second tier types yet again. But that's just me...
The problem is no NT, plain and simple. Those two gap skill guys are great for pass rush, but you can't put them out there together or guards will just bowl them over and keep going. That's what made giving Gerard Warren a safety so humiliating; he was never that bad a PLAYER, but he had to do it all alone every game, and it wore him down each year. At least then we HAD a true plugging DT; now we just have Adams, and the only thing he plugs these days is himself into an oxygen tank.

[gobroncsnv]

For that matter, I think we released Adams before the Minn game... Regardless, I'm thinking we do NOT yet have the plugger/crusher type that you and I allude to.
For another matter, maybe Moss is not quite there yet, but most agree that we are much closer to being set at DE than tackle. Still wondering if Crowder will be more the every down type player along with Ek, and as you mentioned, have Elvis and Moss be the speed rushers/situational dudes.
But we still have to worry more about player quality than hoping that a scheme will bail us out. Get the guys that we can REALLY use, then worry about using them correctly. That's the order I would do it in. The players have to know WHAT to do, sure, but they have to be ABLE to do what they're asked as well.

[fcspikeit]

He was talking about watching last year's film session, y'know, like Denver's defense... I am listening...

Well he surly didn't sign here to play a scheme we will not be using next year..

He had to be talking about Slow's scheme we used later in the year..

Or he just isn't very bright...:lol:

[Npba900]

Slowick should game plan towards the talent he already has available and not game plan with the players he wish he had.

Keep it simple, who ever wins the starting jobs, line em up and let the front seven "ATTACK" and play aggressive defense with surprise blitz packages.

[gobroncsnv]

I'm ok with the blitz and agressive and attack parts, but Coyer used a lot of blitzes, and MANY times we didn't get there. My thinking was it was a dline quality problem, so it was no big deal for the oline to have to block the 'backers as well. We blitzed a TON against the Steelers in the championship game, NEVER EVER GOT THERE.

[Npba900]

I agree, ultimately the Broncos will need to prove they can at least harass the QB into throwing when they don't want too with providing harassment and sack pressure with just their front four.

QB hurries are just as important as sacks b/c ill-timed passes could lead interceptions or incomplete passes. We definitely can't live and die by the blitz, especially in December and January.

[broncosfanscott]

I agree, ultimately the Broncos will need to prove they can at least harass the QB into throwing when they don't want too with providing harassment and sack pressure with just their front four.

QB hurries are just as important as sacks b/c ill-timed passes could lead interceptions or incomplete passes. We definitely can't live and die by the blitz, especially in December and January.


Pressure, Pressure, Pressure. Any QB can beat you if given plenty of time.

[gobroncsnv]

Yep, we've seen that happen WAY too many times over the past 8+ years.

[broncosfanscott]

With some good picks in the draft and hopefully a scheme that works, we will be able to stop the run which will allow some kind of pressure. I mean at least cut at least 40 to 50 yds. off our average last year I will be happy.