To draft OT or RB at #12... that is the question.

[MHCBill]

There has been some debate here between forum members on which route to go with our #1 pick... OT or RB. Outside of Ellis or Dorsey falling to #12 most of us seem to have fallen into one of two camps. There's a smattering of people who want us to reach for Phillips, or Connor, or Rivers, but essentially most are torn between OT and RB.

I've brought it up in many posts, but I think one aspect of drafting is not only getting a talented player, but to get value out of your pick. Value may be hard to define at times, but for the most part value is relatively easy to understand. Outside of talent and value you need to look at other intagibles as well as desire and realizing whether or not a particular player fits your "system". Many variables obviously come into play when you make a draft selection.

The Denver Broncos do not and have not selected inside the top 10 or close to the top 10 very often. With that type of value that we are not normally accustomed to I think it is imperative that we get the most out of this opportunity. Value.

Between OT and RB where is the most value at #12? Unless Clady falls to #12 are there really any other OT's worth this selection? Some argue that not even Clady is worth this selection, but the masses that are for drafting an OT with our #1 selection mostly agree that trading down further in the first round would make more sense. Primarily due to the fact that many of the OT's are graded very close to each other. So, is there really any VALUE drafting an OT at #12 if Clady is gone? Probably not.

Well, then trade down. Easier said than done. If that would happen, it most likely wouldn't happen until draft day when a team has a player targeted that begins to fall a little bit... then they want to jump up and grab him. This is truly an impossible question to answer at this time... can we find a trade partner to slide down further in the draft while adding another pick or two?

Making the assumption that we won't be trading down we are left with reaching on an OT at #12 or selecting a top notch RB. The opponents to drafting a RB have never disputed that any of the top three running backs are not very talented. The opponents to drafting a RB are more fixated on fixing the oline for the run game and pass protection. I don't agree that the oline is as bad as some think it was or will be. Coupled with the fact that as long as I can remember in Shanahan's tenure we have not drafted an olineman and started him from day one. What makes you think we will now? And, if we do select one, chances are he won't be contributing to the oline this year helping with the run game or pass protection. Hence, not much value.

Draft the stud RB now, while we can achieve optimum value for the selection. How often will we have the ability to get a top flight RB like any of these top three running backs? Sure, we'll always find a RB that will run between 1,200-1,400 yards, but why not get the elite back that will run behind the exact same line as any ordinary back, but the elite back will gain upwards of 1,600-1,800 yards. Let's add the one final offensive skill player to our current young talented offensive players and prepare ourselves for a top 10 offense for the next 5-8 years.

Please, draft Johnathan Stewart.

[underrated29]

I agree about the OT value not being much worse in rd 2. And on top of that is the word that they might even move kupes to LT or RT to compete with pears and harris- Thus making it less likely to take OT.

I still think that shannys draft baord is like this. Actually i might put it in my sig if i have enough room

1. trade to 7 for ellis/dorsey
2. #12 jstew/mendenhall
3. #12 clady
4. #12 laws
5. #12 WR (forgot his name the big guy who also KR)
6. trade back as none are there (doubtful)

I am with you for drafting stewart at #12. I think itwill happen if We cant get into 7 for ellis. I really think it will be one of the two for sure. Sadley I wont be in town for the draft to say i told you so :wink: :biggrin:

[turftoad]

as far as the thread title goes........... It's not a question for me at all. I don't want to see either one a #12. I'd be OK with an OT but we have other needs.
I'd really like to see us trade the pick and aquire a few more picks.

[MHCBill]

I'd really like to see us trade the pick and aquire a few more picks.

And if we can not find the right deal would you rather us pass?

[turftoad]

And if we can not find the right deal would you rather us pass?

:confused: Sorry, I just don't have Stewart or Clady tatoo'd on my ass. JMO

That being said......... Whom ever we draft will be a Bronco so I will support them as I do the rest of the team.

[MHCBill]

No need to get hostile... I just try to live in reality.

If we can't make a trade odds are we'll draft someone at #12.

Who would you like it to be?

[turftoad]

No need to get hostile... I just try to live in reality.

If we can't make a trade odds are we'll draft someone at #12.

Who would you like it to be?

I'm not hostile at all Bill.

Just answering to the title of the thread.

You just made it sound like an OL or a RB are are only options at #12.

[MHCBill]

Okay, TT who would you like if we're forced to pick at #12?

My point is/was most people are from two camps... RB or OT. You obviously aren't. So, who do you like there?

Again, as my first post points out... I'm very concerned about value.

[shank]

at 12, if clady is gone, i do not want to reach for a OT. if we can't trade down i would rather pick RB of the two choices.

i do think that WR is at least as big an option in the 1st as RB is if it works out like this. Malcolm Kelly at 12 wouldn't be too bad, or that big of a shock.


i, like you bill, am just obsessed with value this year in the draft. i really could care less what we draft as long as we avoid reaching and overspending to move up. there's no reason we should have trade up for moss last year with players of his caliber or very slightly less still on the board. I just want to the broncos to make the most of the draft, take players at spots where they deserve to be taken or players who should have been taken sooner and drop to us (as long as it's not because of character concerns or lingering injuries (dorsey is the exception i suppose).

i will be happy to see almost any draft as long as we don't trade up in the 1st to get clady, take trevor laws at 12, or reach for mehlhaff in the 4th... (or comparable moves)... JUST MAXIMIZE VALUE! it's almost at the point of being a BPA draft, but don't overload any position with picks unless it's DT. get young, hard workers and limit the draft to only a couple "sexy picks" as they are the ones that usually bite you. get hard workers and high character guys that are slated to be taken when we take them.


(i'm pretty sure i said the same thing like 5 times in there... hooray redundancy)

[MHCBill]

I agree shawshank...

[turftoad]

Okay, TT who would you like if we're forced to pick at #12?

My point is/was most people are from two camps... RB or OT. You obviously aren't. So, who do you like there?

Again, as my first post points out... I'm very concerned about value.

I totally understand the whole value thing. That being said, it sucks to be #12 this year with the needs we have.

I don't think RB is a need but if we do take one I like Mendenhall better than Stewart. RB at #12 is a very good possibility for us. I just don't like it.

OT is a need for us. I don't think it's a huge need but a need none the less. Same as RB, I like Williams better than Clady and have seen him ranked higher than Clady in many so called experts mocks. OT is a very good possibility for us also. Again, I just don't like it.

I like Conner but the value is not there at #12 and we just signed Niko so I don't see that happening.

I also like Phillips but that would not be a good value at #12.

I don't think we firmed up the #2 WR position by signing Colbert at all. There is no WR at #12 that has that value either.

Both top tier DT's will probably be gone. After that there are none to take at #12 with that value.

So............. I'm on the fence.

If we are fortunate, we'll be able to trade down.

If we are unfortunate, we stay where we're at.

[MHCBill]

Strong points TT.

Other than RB there isn't great value at #12.

[turftoad]

Strong points TT.

Other than RB there isn't great value at #12.

Which sucks because we really don't need one.

[dogfish]

i'm torn. . . RB and OT are definitely my top choices assuming that we're actually going to pick at 12. . .

one thing i don't agree with is your belief that OT isn't as great a value because they might not start this year. . . for one thing, we've seen plenty of OTs start and play at a high level recently, and i don't think they guys we have are so special that a rook can't beat them out, even though we know that mike prefers to let his rookie OLs learn for a year before he puts them in. . . but even if a guy sits, it's not going to detract from his value in my eyes because i don't think we're going to be in contention for anything this year anyways. . . i'm far and away more concerned with long term value than immediate impact. . .

i go back and forth bewteen clady and stewart/mendenhall. . . two things ultimately have me favoring the RB. . . one is my belief that stewart and mendenhall are the safest picks-- we know nothing is guaranteed with draft picks, but i personally am completely convinced that both of them are sure-fire studs at the next level. . . the other is my belief that some of the potential 2nd round OTs have just as much potential as the 1st rounders (same goes for LBs)-- especially anthony collins, and cherilus if he happens to be avilable. . . i don't think any of the 2nd tier RBs have the same long term potential as stewart and mendenhall-- some good runners there no doubt, but none of them have that ideal combination of size and speed. . .


in the end, i'll be delighted with clady, stewart or mendenhall, and satisfied with chris williams-- any other pick at 12 is going to leave me disappointed, even though there are certainly some other guys who project as good players. . . i just don't see guys like rivers, connor or phillips becoming the same type of difference-makers that the top RBs are going to be-- good players, certainly, but will they really reach that elite status? i'm not convinced. . . i will be bummed if we take a WR or corner. . . .

[dogfish]

Which sucks because we really don't need one.

this year, but going forward who do we really have? travis henry is old and broken down, there's no way anyone can realistically see him as the guy we're going to build around for any length of time. . . selvin young and andre hall are change-of-pace guys. . . young has never stayed helthy before, i don't see any possible reason to expect that he's going to start-- and shanahan has flat-out admitted publicly that he doesn't see young as more than a 12-15 carries per game type of back. . .

i'm not disputing anyone's right to have an opinion, or trying to say that mine is "better" or more correct than anyone else's. . . and i can see where you don't think we need one THIS year. . . but if it's going to become a need very soon anyways, why not fill it for the next 5-10 years with a guy you can build a team around, the way san diego and seattle have recently? it's one thing for us to plug in a nobody and crank out X amount of yards per season, but i think honest fans will admit that the stats aren't the full story. . . we've been able to crank out good numbers by running it up when we play weaker defenses, but when's the last time we layed a beatdown on a good team with our running game? we get stuffed when we play quality fronts like san diego, and where it really counts-- in the red zone-- our running game is a shell of it's former self. . . we don't dominate the way we used to-- NO ONE is afraid of our ground game anymore. . . it's not even the best in the division. . . running back by committe can produce solid numbers, but it doesn't take over games in the 2nd half the way a real horse in the backfield will, and it doesn't take pressure off both the passing game and the defense. . .



now that i've given up on the idea that we have to try filling every hole so we can compete this year, i'm not as insistent that we have to get a 1st day DT. . . i think my ideal 1st day, barring any trades, would be stewart mendenhall in the 1st, cherilus/collins/baker in the 2nd. . . spend the 2nd day looking at safeties, DTs and WRs (with an emphasis on return skills), and probably take a punter and a kicker. . .

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Safety

[dogfish]

Safety

please god no

[Simple Jaded]

If, in fact, the Broncos are "Building through the Draft", then RB is definitely an option!

Nowhere that I've been reading did Shanahan/Bowlen say anything about "Build through the Draft unless there is a Fragile Pothead and two injury prone players already at the position".

So Henry/Young/Hall can get ya through the season, so what? Then What? Another group of average scrubs just like them?

The problem people have with the Broncos drafting a RB in the 1st round is the apparent success Denver has running the ball.

If all you care about are those meaningless 1900/or so yards Denver had in 07, then you'll never be disappointed with players like Henry/Young/Hall.

My first choice would be Clady/Williams/J. Long if Dorsey is taken (And he will be), but I do not believe Shanahan will take a LT, so Stewart/Mendenhall are next on my wish list......

[MHCBill]

Stewart is the type of back that could run for over 1,700+ yards in our system.

[Simple Jaded]

Stewart is the type of back that could run for over 1,700+ yards in our system.

More importantly, he is the type of back that could get more than 4 rushing TD's in Denver's system......

[TXBRONC]

There has been some debate here between forum members on which route to go with our #1 pick... OT or RB. Outside of Ellis or Dorsey falling to #12 most of us seem to have fallen into one of two camps. There's a smattering of people who want us to reach for Phillips, or Connor, or Rivers, but essentially most are torn between OT and RB.

I've brought it up in many posts, but I think one aspect of drafting is not only getting a talented player, but to get value out of your pick. Value may be hard to define at times, but for the most part value is relatively easy to understand. Outside of talent and value you need to look at other intangibles as well as desire and realizing whether or not a particular player fits your "system". Many variables obviously come into play when you make a draft selection.

The Denver Broncos do not and have not selected inside the top 10 or close to the top 10 very often. With that type of value that we are not normally accustomed to I think it is imperative that we get the most out of this opportunity. Value.

Between OT and RB where is the most value at #12? Unless Clady falls to #12 are there really any other OT's worth this selection? Some argue that not even Clady is worth this selection, but the masses that are for drafting an OT with our #1 selection mostly agree that trading down further in the first round would make more sense. Primarily due to the fact that many of the OT's are graded very close to each other. So, is there really any VALUE drafting an OT at #12 if Clady is gone? Probably not.

Well, then trade down. Easier said than done. If that would happen, it most likely wouldn't happen until draft day when a team has a player targeted that begins to fall a little bit... then they want to jump up and grab him. This is truly an impossible question to answer at this time... can we find a trade partner to slide down further in the draft while adding another pick or two?

Making the assumption that we won't be trading down we are left with reaching on an OT at #12 or selecting a top notch RB. The opponents to drafting a RB have never disputed that any of the top three running backs are not very talented. The opponents to drafting a RB are more fixated on fixing the oline for the run game and pass protection. I don't agree that the oline is as bad as some think it was or will be. Coupled with the fact that as long as I can remember in Shanahan's tenure we have not drafted an olineman and started him from day one. What makes you think we will now? And, if we do select one, chances are he won't be contributing to the oline this year helping with the run game or pass protection. Hence, not much value.

Draft the stud RB now, while we can achieve optimum value for the selection. How often will we have the ability to get a top flight RB like any of these top three running backs? Sure, we'll always find a RB that will run between 1,200-1,400 yards, but why not get the elite back that will run behind the exact same line as any ordinary back, but the elite back will gain upwards of 1,600-1,800 yards. Let's add the one final offensive skill player to our current young talented offensive players and prepare ourselves for a top 10 offense for the next 5-8 years.

Please, draft Johnathan Stewart.

I think you make very good argument but I don't see Denver selecting a running back with 12th overall pick because it's really not a position of need. However, drafting a running back would have more immediate impact on offensive production that offensive lineman would. That being said I still don't think a running back will be taken with our first pick.

[Lonestar]

I think you make very good argument but I don't see Denver selecting a running back with 12th overall pick because it's really not a position of need. However, drafting a running back would have more immediate impact on offensive production that offensive lineman would. That being said I still don't think a running back will be taken with our first pick.


I think your correct here unless they are unable to find a quality pick on the DT, or OT spot and unable to trade back a few spots for more picks..

I think mikey is gun shy at reaching to players that he could get later on..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm thinking WR, RB or trade up for DT.

[turftoad]

Stewart is the type of back that could run for over 1,700+ yards in our system.

Mendenhall is a guy that could run for 1701 + yards in our system.

[TXBRONC]

I'm thinking WR, RB or trade up for DT.

Under most circumstances I'm comfortable with Denver trading up (as long as we're not mortgaging entire draft to do it) but this year I would be leery of do so.

[Lonestar]

Under most circumstances I'm comfortable with Denver trading up (as long as we're not mortgaging entire draft to do it) but this year I would be leery of do so.

A couple of spots for ellis USC or dorsey from LSU.. but as we speak none of the others..

[MHCBill]

With sooooo many needs I'm not sure this year is a good year to trade picks to move up.

We'll lose overall value with the draft.

Huge price to pay for one player.

[TXBRONC]

I think your correct here unless they are unable to find a quality pick on the DT, or OT spot and unable to trade back a few spots for more picks..

I think mikey is gun shy at reaching to players that he could get later on..

If reading things correct the speculation is that the two elite DTs in this draft will be gone within first seven picks. So if that's the case our best bet would be an OT if Broncos stay with the 12th pick.

[Lonestar]

If reading things correct the speculation is that the two elite DTs in this draft will be gone within first seven picks. So if that's the case our best bet would be an OT if Broncos stay with the 12th pick.

There is also some thoughts that they might slide to 9-10 as not everyone in front of us needs a prime DT most have other GAPEING needs..

[TXBRONC]

A couple of spots for ellis USC or dorsey from LSU.. but as we speak none of the others..

Well as I mentioned previously, it sounds like Ellis and Dorsey will be gone within the first seven picks which would mean Denver has to jump up four spots in the draft which would be costly.

[TXBRONC]

There is also some thoughts that they might slide to 9-10 as not everyone in front of us needs a prime DT most have other GAPEING needs..

If either Ellis or Dorsey are there at nine or ten that would be well worth it.

[Lonestar]

Well as I mentioned previously, it sounds like Ellis and Dorsey will be gone within the first seven picks which would mean Denver has to jump up four spots in the draft which would be costly.

If one of them makes it to 10 I say make the trade foxy and a 4 should about do it..


Beyond that NO WAY

[turftoad]

If, in fact, the Broncos are "Building through the Draft", then RB is definitely an option!

Nowhere that I've been reading did Shanahan/Bowlen say anything about "Build through the Draft unless there is a Fragile Pothead and two injury prone players already at the position".

So Henry/Young/Hall can get ya through the season, so what? Then What? Another group of average scrubs just like them?

The problem people have with the Broncos drafting a RB in the 1st round is the apparent success Denver has running the ball.

If all you care about are those meaningless 1900/or so yards Denver had in 07, then you'll never be disappointed with players like Henry/Young/Hall.

My first choice would be Clady/Williams/J. Long if Dorsey is taken (And he will be), but I do not believe Shanahan will take a LT, so Stewart/Mendenhall are next on my wish list......

The problem people have with us drafting a RB in the first is that we were 30th in the league in stopping the run and 28th in points allowed.

I don't think Henry is a scrub in our offense. He was the league leader after week 4. The problem with him is staying healthy.
We ended the season 11th in the league in rushing. That was with Henry out.
I don't see how it is so hard to believe that people have a hard time with us not drafting a RB in the first round.

[TXBRONC]

The problem people have with us drafting a RB in the first is that we were 30th in the league in stopping the run and 28th in points allowed.

I don't think Henry is a scrub in our offense. He was the league leader after week 4. The problem with him is staying healthy.
We ended the season 11th in the league in rushing. That was with Henry out.
I don't see how it is so hard to believe that people have a hard time with us not drafting a RB in the first round.

I could live with us drafting a running back in the first round because running back has much better chance making an immediate impact than does a offensive lineman or defensive lineman. That being said my preference is for defensive or offensive linemen (in that order).

[MOtorboat]

If either Ellis or Dorsey are there at nine or ten that would be well worth it.

No...No...No it wouldn't. We cannot afford to give up anything for any picks. I'm afraid that we have to stick at No. 12...we need as much talent as we can get. If we can trade back, fine...but trading up, with our current situation is not a good thing...at all...I wish people would quit with the "trade up for so, and so..." threads. It's not smart.

[TXBRONC]

No...No...No it wouldn't. We cannot afford to give up anything for any picks. I'm afraid that we have to stick at No. 12...we need as much talent as we can get. If we can trade back, fine...but trading up, with our current situation is not a good thing...at all...I wish people would quit with the "trade up for so, and so..." threads. It's not smart.

MB there's nothing wrong with kicking these ideas around and it not dumb just because its not what you would do.

It's your opinion that it would be a bad idea to trade up two spots to get Ellis or Dorsey that's fine and I respect but I don't agree with you. That being said I don't think we'll be trading up.

[MOtorboat]

MB there's nothing wrong with kicking these ideas around and it not dumb just because its not what you would do.

It's your opinion that it would be a bad idea to trade up two spots to get Ellis or Dorsey that's fine and I respect but I don't agree with you. That being said I don't think we'll be trading up.

You're not contemplating where we're at as a team...to trade up we have to give up something...if we were one d-lineman away from competing...sure...but we're not.

Since we're not being big players in the free agent market, we have to draft impact rookies. Since we don't have a third-round pick that puts more emphasis on our first and second round picks. Since we don't have a third-round pick, it would probably take the second to move up (or a pick from next year, which isn't very smart either). I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's just not a very good idea, with as many positions that we need to fill. If we're really trying to fill things with the draft, as it appears that we may be doing, we have to quit trading picks away (i.e. Marcus Thomas last year...).

[SmilinAssasSin27]

No...No...No it wouldn't. We cannot afford to give up anything for any picks. I'm afraid that we have to stick at No. 12...we need as much talent as we can get. If we can trade back, fine...but trading up, with our current situation is not a good thing...at all...I wish people would quit with the "trade up for so, and so..." threads. It's not smart.

I disagree. Foxxy is NOT returning in 2009. A 4th (this year or next) and Foxxy can get us a swap w/ Bmore at #8. It jumps us ahead of NO and Cincy and Bmore needs youth at CB.

[MOtorboat]

I disagree. Foxxy is NOT returning in 2009. A 4th (this year or next) and Foxxy can get us a swap w/ Bmore at #8. It jumps us ahead of NO and Cincy and Bmore needs youth at CB.

I disagree. We'll be lucky to get a 4th for him...and even if we get a fourth...then we should be using that pick for depth. Again, we're not just a pick or two away from competing, we need as much talent as we can get. If we trade foxy away for a fourth, we need to draft another player....not move up in the first round with the possibility that player might be good.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I disagree. We'll be lucky to get a 4th for him...and even if we get a fourth...then we should be using that pick for depth. Again, we're not just a pick or two away from competing, we need as much talent as we can get. If we trade foxy away for a fourth, we need to draft another player....not move up in the first round with the possibility that player might be good.

As it currently stands...assuming McCree signs and word is he will...our biggest need is DT. Are you seriously telling me you would not give up a 4th round pick and a player who is leaving anyways for teh chance to draft a top notch prospect in the position we need the most? Really?

Shanny has just signed guys to fill holes. He grabbed a WR and 2 LBs. He's trying to land an OG and a S as well. We only have so many roster spots. If we trade up using a 4th and Foxxy, we still have a 2, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7. That's 6 more picks AFTER acquiring a player to fill our biggest need.

[dogfish]

if you've got a chance to get an elite D-tackle and all you have to give up is a guy who's not going to be here past next year anyways, and/or a 4th round pick, you do it every time. . . top-notch DTs are every bit as hard to find as quarterbacks-- there just aren't that many of them, and you almost always have to give something up to get them. . . if there's a chance we can get a BEAST like glen dorsey, a guy that you can build a defense around for the next decade, sign me up! no depth player is going to make the kind of impact a guy like that will. . . besides, what good are depth guys when you don't have a foundation to build on. . .

[Simple Jaded]

We ended the season 11th in the league in rushing. .

Unless you're in Fantasy Football, this is the very definition of "Meaningless"!



They finished 18th in attempts, but 9th in yards and yards/game, 5th in average per attempt, which is good......but meaningless!

Because they finished tied for 20th rushing TD's, and of the 12 teams that had less rushing TD's, only Seattle and Pittsburgh surprise ya. As much as Broncos fans pound their chest about Denver's Vaunted Rushing attack, you'd think they'd been able to finish a bit higher than 20th, but they finished only ahead of the very worst teams in the league.

And Henry's injury shouldn't offer much of an excuse, considering Tony Kornheiser is supposed to be able to dominate in this system.

A team like the Colts (Who are considered more of a passing team than the Broncos) had more carries, less yards, a worse average/attempt......yet had twice as many rushing TD's.

I sincerely hate stats, and this discussion is why.

1957 yards is more than enough to distract people from obvious problems.

I have concerns about the Broncos offense that meaningless stats just can't ease, drafting a Franchise RB or a Franchise LT would help a hell of a lot more than the knowledge that Travis Henry MIGHT be able to stay healthy and he MIGHT be motivated and he MIGHT be able to avoid the Hippie Lettuce.

And this doesn't even begin to address the problems Denver has with pass protection.

So hopefully Mike Shanahan and the Broncos look a bit deeper than superficial rushing stats.

Btw, it's apparent that this team had as much of a chance to improve it's run defense as Cleveland/NY Jets/Buffalo did......but chose not to. So if Dorsey does not fall in their laps (And he won't), let's hope they don't reach for a DT at 12 out of desperation, thus making WR, DE, LB and yes, even RB/ LT, as viable/valuable options......

[Lonestar]

As it currently stands...assuming McCree signs and word is he will...our biggest need is DT. Are you seriously telling me you would not give up a 4th round pick and a player who is leaving anyways for teh chance to draft a top notch prospect in the position we need the most? Really?

Shanny has just signed guys to fill holes. He grabbed a WR and 2 LBs. He's trying to land an OG and a S as well. We only have so many roster spots. If we trade up using a 4th and Foxxy, we still have a 2, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7. That's 6 more picks AFTER acquiring a player to fill our biggest need.


if you've got a chance to get an elite D-tackle and all you have to give up is a guy who's not going to be here past next year anyways, and/or a 4th round pick, you do it every time. . . top-notch DTs are every bit as hard to find as quarterbacks-- there just aren't that many of them, and you almost always have to give something up to get them. . . if there's a chance we can get a BEAST like glen dorsey, a guy that you can build a defense around for the next decade, sign me up! no depth player is going to make the kind of impact a guy like that will. . . besides, what good are depth guys when you don't have a foundation to build on. . .

While I find it VERY remote that this would happen.

I would do it in a heart beat.. IN fact if we had to give up foxy and a 4 and a 5th to move up a couple of spots for Dorsey or Ellis, both of which are about as close to can't miss as they come.. They would not even have to ask twice..

One of them as you said could anchor along with Thomas this DLINE for the next decade. All of sudden our doom can become an every down player because he does not have to worry about the run or being double teamed.. the value of great DTs transcend a couple of picks..

[Fan in Exile]

They way I see it is that if we don't move up we're going to have to use a couple of picks to get DT's. Either so that we can have a good rotation because none of them are dominate or so that we may luck out and get one who can dominate.

If we do move up then we are just putting all of our eggs in one basket. I for one think Dorsey is better than a combination of Laws and Hayden. I think we have enough depth on the team I would like us to bring in a stud.

[Scarface]

Take Clady, Williams, or Albert rd1. Take Forte later. We'll have a more efficient offense going forward than just by taking a rb at #12.

[MHCBill]

The problem people have with us drafting a RB in the first is that we were 30th in the league in stopping the run and 28th in points allowed.

I don't think Henry is a scrub in our offense. He was the league leader after week 4. The problem with him is staying healthy.
We ended the season 11th in the league in rushing. That was with Henry out.
I don't see how it is so hard to believe that people have a hard time with us not drafting a RB in the first round.IMO...

Staying with Henry is short-sighted. He is 30 years old, rarely if ever plays an entire season, and is one inhale of second hand smoke from being gone from the NFL forever.

We MUST make the most of the #12 pick in this year's draft and acquire great value. RB at #12 supports value and it is a need.

Henry - 30 year old, can't stay healthy, downside of career

Young - injury prone, Shanny has already stated he is a 12-15 carry back

Hall - relatively unproven, 3rd on depth chart, undrafted

Running back is a need.

[lex]

i'm torn. . . RB and OT are definitely my top choices assuming that we're actually going to pick at 12. . .

one thing i don't agree with is your belief that OT isn't as great a value because they might not start this year. . . for one thing, we've seen plenty of OTs start and play at a high level recently, and i don't think they guys we have are so special that a rook can't beat them out, even though we know that mike prefers to let his rookie OLs learn for a year before he puts them in. . . but even if a guy sits, it's not going to detract from his value in my eyes because i don't think we're going to be in contention for anything this year anyways. . . i'm far and away more concerned with long term value than immediate impact. . .

i go back and forth bewteen clady and stewart/mendenhall. . . two things ultimately have me favoring the RB. . . one is my belief that stewart and mendenhall are the safest picks-- we know nothing is guaranteed with draft picks, but i personally am completely convinced that both of them are sure-fire studs at the next level. . . the other is my belief that some of the potential 2nd round OTs have just as much potential as the 1st rounders (same goes for LBs)-- especially anthony collins, and cherilus if he happens to be avilable. . . i don't think any of the 2nd tier RBs have the same long term potential as stewart and mendenhall-- some good runners there no doubt, but none of them have that ideal combination of size and speed. . .


in the end, i'll be delighted with clady, stewart or mendenhall, and satisfied with chris williams-- any other pick at 12 is going to leave me disappointed, even though there are certainly some other guys who project as good players. . . i just don't see guys like rivers, connor or phillips becoming the same type of difference-makers that the top RBs are going to be-- good players, certainly, but will they really reach that elite status? i'm not convinced. . . i will be bummed if we take a WR or corner. . . .

I like Carl Nicks. Weighs 340 and ran a 5.2 forty, which was basically what Long ran. At the senior bowl he was much better than Cherilus at pass blocking and was very adept at blocking on the LOS. He was also good at getting to the next level as he is mobile. The thing Cherilus seems to have the advantage on is fitting on LBs and DBs at the next level. Cherilus really gets after it with the LBs and DBs...more so than Nicks. But Nicks is a much better pass blocker than Cherilus...can possibly play both LT or RT whereas Cherilus is a RT.

[lex]

IMO...

Staying with Henry is short-sighted. He is 30 years old, rarely if ever plays an entire season, and is one inhale of second hand smoke from being gone from the NFL forever.

We MUST make the most of the #12 pick in this year's draft and acquire great value. RB at #12 supports value and it is a need.

Henry - 30 year old, can't stay healthy, downside of career

Young - injury prone, Shanny has already stated he is a 12-15 carry back

Hall - relatively unproven, 3rd on depth chart, undrafted

Running back is a need.

Plus, Henry just wasnt THAT explosive either. I realize that many here think its more important to be slow and get 3 yards but Young had far more big runs...he wasnt able to finish but still, he was better than Henry. Henry just left too many long runs on the field. I think his longest run was that option play they ran in the opening game vs Buffalo where Cutler pitched it to Henry. People talk about our problems in the red zone which is true but the fact that until the game at KC, our longest TD run was 9 yards is also a problem and contributes to our. Basically, that means in spite of having long runs, not being able to finish is putting us inside the 5 or 10 where we had to attempt FGs. If we got someone who is more explosive and durable, the red zone problems shouldnt be as glaring.

[TXBRONC]

While I find it VERY remote that this would happen.

I would do it in a heart beat.. IN fact if we had to give up foxy and a 4 and a 5th to move up a couple of spots for Dorsey or Ellis, both of which are about as close to can't miss as they come.. They would not even have to ask twice..

One of them as you said could anchor along with Thomas this DLINE for the next decade. All of sudden our doom can become an every down player because he does not have to worry about the run or being double teamed.. the value of great DTs transcend a couple of picks..

That would be a bit much unless we were jumping up the four spots that you and I were both leery of doing.

[Buff]

I like the idea of nabbing Clady or Williams... They seem to be consensus top 15-20 picks, big frames, solid character people... We need a youthful talent infusion at OL, especially after the big 1st round whiff with Foster...

If the Broncos decide that there is enough value at OT in later rounds and they want to wait-- (And assuming they don't trade back and grab a DT)...

I'd consider Malcolm Kelly or Limas Sweed along with Mendenhall or Stewart... Being a Big 12 guy, I've seen both of those guys kill DB's and overwhelm them with size... Plus they can both get deep and are quick for their size. I know it'd be a bit of a reach to take a WR, but I think both of those guys will have solid NFL careers and could immediately fill the #2 spot.

At the end of the day, I'd be happy with any of the 6 guys I just mentioned-- What a difference a year makes.

[MHCBill]

Sorry Buff, but imo we can't afford to "reach" on WR at #12.

Value

Value

Value

If he's there, draft Stewart and have a top-tier RB for the next 5-8 years. He can hit the home run as well as score at the goalline. He'll pick up the tough 3rd and 1 as well as take a screen pass 40 yards.

Why don't we want this year's Larry Johnson?

OT provides no value at #12 if Clady and Jake Long are gone. And there certainly is a good argument that Clady may be overrated.

Add the final piece to our young offensive skill player puzzle.

[turftoad]

Sorry Buff, but imo we can't afford to "reach" on WR at #12.

Value

Value

Value

If he's there, draft Stewart and have a top-tier RB for the next 5-8 years. He can hit the home run as well as score at the goalline. He'll pick up the tough 3rd and 1 as well as take a screen pass 40 yards.

Why don't we want this year's Larry Johnson?

OT provides no value at #12 if Clady and Jake Long are gone. And there certainly is a good argument that Clady may be overrated.

Add the final piece to our young offensive skill player puzzle.

He could also be this years Curtis Ennis.

[Buff]

Sorry Buff, but imo we can't afford to "reach" on WR at #12.

Value

Value

Value

If he's there, draft Stewart and have a top-tier RB for the next 5-8 years. He can hit the home run as well as score at the goalline. He'll pick up the tough 3rd and 1 as well as take a screen pass 40 yards.

Why don't we want this year's Larry Johnson?

OT provides no value at #12 if Clady and Jake Long are gone. And there certainly is a good argument that Clady may be overrated.

Add the final piece to our young offensive skill player puzzle.

Yeah, but my contention is that it wouldn't be as big of a reach as the experts think... Both Sweed and Kelly are legitimit first round talents, and if Sweed wouldn't have had a wrist injury his stock may be higher. Plus Kelly's grading out almost as high as Mendenhall... And I think our need is higher at WR...

But I can see your point on finally drafting value over need and building the franchise that route... Like I said, I'd be happy with any of the 6 guys I mentioned.

[MHCBill]

And Clady could be this year's George Foster.

[Scarface]

Chris Williams and Branden Albert are considered top 20 prospects by plenty of people. They would provide plenty of value.

[MHCBill]

Top 20... probably, but I doubt they provide value at #12.

Again, I'm not saying we can't move down and select the numerous amounts of players people are suggesting, but I'm primarily concerned with #12 because that's where we're at.

Until we move from #12 I'm fixated on value there and only there.

[turftoad]

Top 20... probably, but I doubt they provide value at #12.

Again, I'm not saying we can't move down and select the numerous amounts of players people are suggesting, but I'm primarily concerned with #12 because that's where we're at.

Until we move from #12 I'm fixated on value there and only there.

The year we drafted Foster ALL the experts and mocks had K. Harris rated higher and going before Foster. We took Foster.

Oh well............. now thier both busts. The experts don't know all.

Just sayin...

[Scarface]

Ryan Clady has been mentioned as a possible Top 5 pick. He'd provide plenty of value at 12. Open your minds people. There are more people in this draft other than Jon Stewart.

[turftoad]

Ryan Clady has been mentioned as a possible Top 5 pick. He'd provide plenty of value at 12. Open your minds people. There are more people in this draft other than Jon Stewart.

I've also seen many experts and mocks that have Williams and Otah ranked higher than Clady. These guys seem to be all over the boards.

[turftoad]

Ryan Clady has been mentioned as a possible Top 5 pick. He'd provide plenty of value at 12. Open your minds people. There are more people in this draft other than Jon Stewart.

That's because Stewart is the sexy pick Scar.

[MOtorboat]

That's because Stewart is the sexy pick Scar.

Runningback is always sexy...

Give me the left tackle...because I'm just not that sexy.

[turftoad]

Runningback is always sexy...

Give me the left tackle...because I'm just not that sexy.

We know, we've seen pics. :D

[Bronco9798]

I'll take a left tackle at 12 and a RB in the 3rd or later on. We don't have a huge need at RB right now. Cutler needs protection now, not later.

[MOtorboat]

I'll take a left tackle at 12 and a RB in the 3rd or later on. We don't have a huge need at RB right now. Cutler needs protection now, not later.

I agree...except we don't have a third...I think Forte is going to go in the third, and that's who I want...

[turftoad]

I agree...except we don't have a third...I think Forte is going to go in the third, and that's who I want...

Totally agree. If we can move back a couple spots, grab Williams, Otah or Albert in the first. Aquire a 3rd. Add a DT or LB in the second and Forte in the third would be great.
Still leaves us thin at WR but can't get em all.

[MOtorboat]

Totally agree. If we can move back a couple spots, grab Williams, Otah or Albert in the first. Aquire a 3rd. Add a DT or LB in the second and Forte in the third would be great.
Still leaves us thin at WR but can't get em all.

Who are we trading with though...and do you see anyone in the draft who's worth giving up a third for? I don't. I know people love the trade up and trade down scenarios, but I'm just not seeing it this year.

[Bronco9798]

Who are we trading with though...and do you see anyone in the draft who's worth giving up a third for? I don't. I know people love the trade up and trade down scenarios, but I'm just not seeing it this year.

Draft day is so unpredictable. You never know who's going to get over excited and make a trade. Anything can happen once the clock starts. Even the unexpected. You just don't know. There are never any perfect scenarios a month or two before, but that can change dramatically come draft day.

[MOtorboat]

Draft day is so unpredictable. You never know who's going to get over excited and make a trade. Anything can happen once the clock starts. Even the unexpected. You just don't know. There are never any perfect scenarios a month or two before, but that can change dramatically come draft day.

Agreed...

[turftoad]

Who are we trading with though...and do you see anyone in the draft who's worth giving up a third for? I don't. I know people love the trade up and trade down scenarios, but I'm just not seeing it this year.

If McFadden is there a #12 (which Mayock has him sliding out of the top 10) someone might jump at the chance. Then we move back a couple of spots and get a third with it.

You're right though. I don't see it happening either. Either way, it won't happen til draft day anyway.

arrrrrrg........ the waiting and speculating is getting old.

[yardog]

If McFadden is there a #12. We might get two #1's from Dallas.

[turftoad]

If McFadden is there a #12. We might get two #1's from Dallas.

We'd be set then. Even one of thier first and a second would be great.

J. Jones has big wood for McFadden.

[tubby]

If Clady is gone I could see us taking Otah. Stick Otah at RT (have Kuper compete) and let Harris and Pears battle it out for LT. Otah and Holland would make a pretty powerful right side.

[MHCBill]

That's because Stewart is the sexy pick Scar.
Right... I'm not that much of a simpleton.

[dogfish]

The year we drafted Foster ALL the experts and mocks had K. Harris rated higher and going before Foster. We took Foster.

Oh well............. now thier both busts. The experts don't know all.

Just sayin...

oh, the irony. . . i was so pissed at shanahan for taking foster when it seemed like everyone and their mom thought harris was the better prospect (and a projected left tackle, to boot). . . . turns out that foster is one of the weakest tackles i've seen, and harris is even worse. . . . :lol:

[dogfish]

Right... I'm not that much of a simpleton.

seriously. . . i've been advocating spending our high picks on the lines rather than skill positions for years, and the one time i think a skill position player offers better value (unless clady is still there), i have to have the whole "sexy pick" thing thrown back in my face. . . more irony. . . :laugh:


FTR, i prefer stewart to chris williams, dan connor, kenny phillips or malcolm kelly because i think he's the SMART pick, not because it's a sexy pick. . . . IMO, i think he's going to be a better player, more of a difference-maker than those other guys. . . it's not about position, it's about spending our high pick wisely rather than filling the most immediate need. . . . that's it, nothing more. . .

[SmilinAssasSin27]

oh, the irony. . . i was so pissed at shanahan for taking foster when it seemed like everyone and their mom thought harris was the better prospect (and a projected left tackle, to boot). . . . turns out that foster is one of the weakest tackles i've seen, and harris is even worse. . . . :lol:

But it does appear Shanny did take the better of the 2.

[Fan in Exile]

But it does appear Shanny did take the better of the 2.

We're not actually going to give Shanny credit for the Foster pick are we?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

We're not actually going to give Shanny credit for the Foster pick are we?

There are 2 schools of thought...
1-Foster was a huge mistake and Shanny shoulda gone a completely different direction.

2-Shanny needed an OT and even though everyone said Harris was the talent, he did his own thing and took a different OT. He wasn't wrong that Foster was the OT to take...the question is (refer back to #1) should he have drafted a OT?

I woulda liked to hear a different name called, but if OT was that big of a need, he should get some credit for avoiding Harris. Foster was solid for at least a little while.

[TXBRONC]

We're not actually going to give Shanny credit for the Foster pick are we?

In my opinion Foster's problem wasn't a lack of strength, it was that he tended to get lazy about his footwork.

[Lonestar]

There are 2 schools of thought...
1-Foster was a huge mistake and Shanny shoulda gone a completely different direction.

2-Shanny needed an OT and even though everyone said Harris was the talent, he did his own thing and took a different OT. He wasn't wrong that Foster was the OT to take...the question is (refer back to #1) should he have drafted a OT?

I woulda liked to hear a different name called, but if OT was that big of a need, he should get some credit for avoiding Harris. Foster was solid for at least a little while.

Only because we were so devoid at OT and everyone was willing to give him a break for the first two years. He simply was a turd up front and it took two years to make sure of it....

Besides was he not injured ALSO in his senior year I seem to remember a wrist issue that bought him time TOO.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Only because we were so devoid at OT and everyone was willing to give him a break for the first two years. He simply was a turd up front and it took two years to make sure of it....

Besides was he not injured ALSO in his senior year I seem to remember a wrist issue that bought him time TOO.

Not many people were bicthing about him when we were making the playoffs every year.

[TXBRONC]

Not many people were bicthing about him when we were making the playoffs every year.


JR was.

[Lonestar]

Not many people were bicthing about him when we were making the playoffs every year.

Well I have rarely praised the clown I did it once calling him a road grader and then one of the more astute members on BM showed me the stats on his rankings.. I stood corrected and never uttered another positive about him till he was traded..

He was a mistake from day one and should have been a better everything At the time he was drafted I was overjoyed as I thought mikey finally got his head out of rectal cavity and was sending a signal we were going to get bigger on the OLINE.. I had wanted kwamee that went to SFO at the time.. But mikey made his normal mistake of taking someone that was hurt in his senior season.. The only one that has worked on was TD and he seems to get hung up on that fact ever since..

He was a loser on draft day and has been since.. another DAFT choice of mikey..

[Lonestar]

JR was.

See post above Thanks you for your support..

In I can't think of any #1 choice that mikey has taken except Al Wilson and DJ that I at the time liked.. ashley at first I liked because I saw him destroy the WAC UTEP in particular but it did not take me long to become disillusioned him that clown..

Now Jay has grown on me but the rest were losers.

[Scarface]

If McFadden is there a #12 (which Mayock has him sliding out of the top 10) someone might jump at the chance. Then we move back a couple of spots and get a third with it.

You're right though. I don't see it happening either. Either way, it won't happen til draft day anyway.

arrrrrrg........ the waiting and speculating is getting old.

If McFadden is there at 12 it wouldn't surprise me to see Shanny take him.

[TXBRONC]

See post above Thanks you for your support..

In I can't think of any #1 choice that mikey has taken except Al Wilson and DJ that I at the time liked.. ashley at first I liked because I saw him destroy the WAC UTEP in particular but it did not take me long to become disillusioned him that clown..

Now Jay has grown on me but the rest were losers.

No you never praised the pick of Lelie from day one you complained we should have taken Javon Walker.

[TXBRONC]

If McFadden is there at 12 it wouldn't surprise me to see Shanny take him.

If Mayock is right then it is possible. However, the biggest hurdle for McFadden to fall out of the top ten is the Raiders.

[Lonestar]

No you never praised pick of Lelie from day one you complained we should have taken Javon Walker.

Actually I did want walker, but had high hopes considering we were locked in..
I remember quite a few posts saying he should be a All pro player.. I had seen his performance his senior year against UTEP when he had a few hundred yards and a bunch of TD's.. With other posters bringing me back to ground..



But quickly found out he was a man among boys that day..

[TXBRONC]

Actually I did want walker, but had high hopes considering we were locked in..
I remember quite a few posts saying he should be a All pro player.. I had seen his performance his senior year against UTEP when he had a few hundred yards and a bunch of TD's.. With other posters bringing me back to ground..



But quickly found out he was a man among boys that day..

Your high hopes always came in the form of criticism from what I remember. Ultimately this is neither here nor there, because neither one of them is with Denver and they both left on bad terms.

[Simple Jaded]

If McFadden falls to 12, the Broncos should get everything they can from the Cowballs in a trade for him......

[TXBRONC]

If McFadden falls to 12, the Broncos should get everything they can from the Cowballs in a trade for him......

I wonder why Mayock thinks McFadden will fall out of the top ten. I can think of two teams that could very easily be interested him that being the Raiders and the Patriots.

[dogfish]

I wonder why Mayock thinks McFadden will fall out of the top ten. I can think of two teams that could very easily be interested him that being the Raiders and the Patriots.

FWIW, mayock made that statement before the combine-- i don't know whether he has reiterated it since then or not. . . with mcfadden running an official 4.33 (and an unofficial 4.27!), i personally don't believe for a second that he has any chance of falling out of the top ten-- at all, whatsoever! there has been mention of some character concerns, and some people question whether he has the leg drive to run hard between the tackles, but that stuff is nitpicking. . . honestly, i think some of the concerns may be legit-- i'd rather have stewart or mendenhall-- but i just don't see a guy with his measurables and production in the SEC dropping very far at all unless some further negatives come up between now and draft day. . . theoretically anything is possible, but i'm just not buying it. . . .

[Lonestar]

If McFadden falls to 12, the Broncos should get everything they can from the Cowballs in a trade for him......

I think that Jerry will make his move LONG before the draft.. And certainly long before #12. He would not have allowed J Jones to meander out of camp.. He has a serious woody issue with mcfadden.

[TXBRONC]

FWIW, mayock made that statement before the combine-- i don't know whether he has reiterated it since then or not. . . with mcfadden running an official 4.33 (and an unofficial 4.27!), i personally don't believe for a second that he has any chance of falling out of the top ten-- at all, whatsoever! there has been mention of some character concerns, and some people question whether he has the leg drive to run hard between the tackles, but that stuff is nitpicking. . . honestly, i think some of the concerns may be legit-- i'd rather have stewart or mendenhall-- but i just don't see a guy with his measurables and production in the SEC dropping very far at all unless some further negatives come up between now and draft day. . . theoretically anything is possible, but i'm just not buying it. . . .


I don't see McFadden dropping out of the top ten either. We know how much Al Davis covets speed and honestly I really do think even the Patriots would taking him at number 7.

[Scarface]

I don't remember Mayock saying McFadden would fall out of the top 10. I remember him saying he wouldn't take him top 10. Two totally different statements.

[lex]

I don't remember Mayock saying McFadden would fall out of the top 10. I remember him saying he wouldn't take him top 10. Two totally different statements.

I thought he said he could see him sliding out of the top 10 depending on what Oakland does. Actually, I think he said he could see him sliding to around 14.

[Bronco9798]

I don't remember Mayock saying McFadden would fall out of the top 10. I remember him saying he wouldn't take him top 10. Two totally different statements.

I saw Mayocks top ten mock draft tonight. McFadden was no where on it.

[gobroncsnv]

I don't see McFadden dropping out of the top ten either. We know how much Al Davis covets speed and honestly I really do think even the Patriots would taking him at number 7.

Honest question here... What's wrong with Maroney? I think the Pats nuts not to go for a more solid running game with him. I'm just not sure their line can run block, 'cause they definitely pass to set up the run, and then their next play is a pass anyway. But Maroney seems to the real deal if they would use him that way.

[lex]

Honest question here... What's wrong with Maroney? I think they're nuts not to go for a more solid running game with him. I'm just not sure their line can run block, 'cause they definitely pass to set up the run. But Maroney seems to the real deal if they would use him that way.

Valid point. If NE doesnt even maximize Maroney, it would be a tremendous waste for them to draft McFadden and pay him all that money, especially when you consider all that needs to be done about their defense. Theyre getting really old and losing guys in FA. Plus, isnt their next pick not until the end of the 2nd?

[Scarface]

Honest question here... What's wrong with Maroney? I think the Pats nuts not to go for a more solid running game with him. I'm just not sure their line can run block, 'cause they definitely pass to set up the run, and then their next play is a pass anyway. But Maroney seems to the real deal if they would use him that way.

They definitely don't use Maroney correctly. They never really committed to the running game. But it's kind of hard to blame them when Brady's throwing TDs more than anyone ever.

[Scarface]

I saw Mayocks top ten mock draft tonight. McFadden was no where on it.

I saw that too. I just don't remember him drawing a line in the sand and saying he wouldn't be a top 10 pick. If he falls to us I really see Shanny having a hard time passing on him.

[lex]

They definitely don't use Maroney correctly. They never really committed to the running game. But it's kind of hard to blame them when Brady's throwing TDs more than anyone ever.

Its easy to blame them if you watched the SB. Not being more adept at the running game finally caught up to them. If they had a better running game they could have neutralized NYs pass rush.

[Bronco9798]

I saw that too. I just don't remember him drawing a line in the sand and saying he wouldn't be a top 10 pick. If he falls to us I really see Shanny having a hard time passing on him.

He has Gholston going to the Raiders at 4 instead of Long? I was surprised to see that. What gives with that?

[lex]

He has Gholston going to the Raiders at 4 instead of Long? I was surprised to see that. What gives with that?


Yeah, thats a surprise but Gholston and Long can almost be viewed interchangeably in that if a team is tempted to take one, its not far fetched to think theyd take the other.

[Scarface]

He has Gholston going to the Raiders at 4 instead of Long? I was surprised to see that. What gives with that?

His logic was Al Davis favors measurables above else.

[Bronco9798]

His logic was Al Davis favors measurables above else.

Scar, Al has no logic in that dead brain..:D

[Scarface]

Scar, Al has no logic in that dead brain..:D

True. All we have to do is look at these FA signings of his.:beer:

[lex]

His logic was Al Davis favors measurables above else.

Yeah, well he also favors living in the past and if Chris Long is available at 4, he could easily go nostalgic on everyone in drafting Howie's son. And actually it wouldnt be a bad pick either. I also wouldnt be shocked to see Davis go defense to demonstrate his support for Ryan and lack of support for Kiffin.

[fcspikeit]

There has been some debate here between forum members on which route to go with our #1 pick... OT or RB. Outside of Ellis or Dorsey falling to #12 most of us seem to have fallen into one of two camps. There's a smattering of people who want us to reach for Phillips, or Connor, or Rivers, but essentially most are torn between OT and RB.

I've brought it up in many posts, but I think one aspect of drafting is not only getting a talented player, but to get value out of your pick. Value may be hard to define at times, but for the most part value is relatively easy to understand. Outside of talent and value you need to look at other intagibles as well as desire and realizing whether or not a particular player fits your "system". Many variables obviously come into play when you make a draft selection.

The Denver Broncos do not and have not selected inside the top 10 or close to the top 10 very often. With that type of value that we are not normally accustomed to I think it is imperative that we get the most out of this opportunity. Value.

Between OT and RB where is the most value at #12? Unless Clady falls to #12 are there really any other OT's worth this selection? Some argue that not even Clady is worth this selection, but the masses that are for drafting an OT with our #1 selection mostly agree that trading down further in the first round would make more sense. Primarily due to the fact that many of the OT's are graded very close to each other. So, is there really any VALUE drafting an OT at #12 if Clady is gone? Probably not.

Well, then trade down. Easier said than done. If that would happen, it most likely wouldn't happen until draft day when a team has a player targeted that begins to fall a little bit... then they want to jump up and grab him. This is truly an impossible question to answer at this time... can we find a trade partner to slide down further in the draft while adding another pick or two?

Making the assumption that we won't be trading down we are left with reaching on an OT at #12 or selecting a top notch RB. The opponents to drafting a RB have never disputed that any of the top three running backs are not very talented. The opponents to drafting a RB are more fixated on fixing the oline for the run game and pass protection. I don't agree that the oline is as bad as some think it was or will be. Coupled with the fact that as long as I can remember in Shanahan's tenure we have not drafted an olineman and started him from day one. What makes you think we will now? And, if we do select one, chances are he won't be contributing to the oline this year helping with the run game or pass protection. Hence, not much value.

Draft the stud RB now, while we can achieve optimum value for the selection. How often will we have the ability to get a top flight RB like any of these top three running backs? Sure, we'll always find a RB that will run between 1,200-1,400 yards, but why not get the elite back that will run behind the exact same line as any ordinary back, but the elite back will gain upwards of 1,600-1,800 yards. Let's add the one final offensive skill player to our current young talented offensive players and prepare ourselves for a top 10 offense for the next 5-8 years.

Please, draft Johnathan Stewart.


Great post!

I have been against picking a RB at 12 since I first learned we would be picking there.. But your post really does bring up some great points.

IMO, the most important is pick value... We really don't get to pick in the top 20 very often. Why should we take a guy at 12 that we could have had 15 to 25 in years past? We are always so far down the list we are playing second fiddle on draft day. If this team turns things around like we all hope, who knows when we will have this chance again?

We can draft a T 15 - 25 when we finish 11-5, so why on earth should we waist our pick value now that we are actualy picking in the top 15?

Think of it this way, if we were picking 23 what would it take to get to 12? almost all our other picks! We have the chance now to be able to pick in the top 15 without having to mortgage our entire draft. What sense does it make to pick a talent at 12 that we can pick at 23 next year?

You have won me over! :salute:

1. I say we either use the value of our 12th pick to move up and get someone who can really help our team, (Dorsey, Ellis).

2. Use the value of the 12th pick to move back and get more picks and draft OT there,

3. If we must stay at 12, I say we pick someone who is actualy worthy of the 12th pick (BPA = Stewart or Mendenhall)

[lex]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80717539

[Simple Jaded]

I think a LT and RB are both good values at 12, I honestly do.

I think the reason Denver doesn't start many rookies on the OL is because they are always picking lineman so late in the draft.

Sure Foster was a No1 pick, but he was a player that had started only (Something like) 11 games in his entire college career. He was not ready, by any means, and they shouldn't have needed hindsight to see that he was not a 1st round pick.

Denver will be picking 12th, for once they'll have a shot at some of the very best at the position, whether it's LT or RB.

Players like that have a much better chance of starting right away, especially if all the have to do is play better than Pears or Harris......

[lex]

Great post!

I have been against picking a RB at 12 since I first learned we would be picking there.. But your post really does bring up some great points.

IMO, the most important is pick value... We really don't get to pick in the top 20 very often. Why should we take a guy at 12 that we could have had 15 to 25 in years past? We are always so far down the list we are playing second fiddle on draft day. If this team turns things around like we all hope, who knows when we will have this chance again?

We can draft a T 15 - 25 when we finish 11-5, so why on earth should we waist our pick value now that we are actualy picking in the top 15?

Think of it this way, if we were picking 23 what would it take to get to 12? almost all our other picks! We have the chance now to be able to pick in the top 15 without having to mortgage our entire draft. What sense does it make to pick a talent at 12 that we can pick at 23 next year?

You have won me over! :salute:

1. I say we either use the value of our 12th pick to move up and get someone who can really help our team, (Dorsey, Ellis).

2. Use the value of the 12th pick to move back and get more picks and draft OT there,

3. If we must stay at 12, I say we pick someone who is actualy worthy of the 12th pick (BPA = Stewart or Mendenhall)

Its good to see people come around on the idea of picking according to value/impact.

[dogfish]

He has Gholston going to the Raiders at 4 instead of Long? I was surprised to see that. What gives with that?

gholston is every bit as good a prospect as long. . . he's not nearly as polished or technically sound, but he's even more athletic. . . long was a three-year starter, and he's probably been playing football since he was about four years old, given who his father is. . . gholston didn't even play football until his sophmore year in high school, and he only started two years in college. . . long has far more experience and has had far more time to refine his technique (advise from a hall of famer doesn't hurt, either)-- gholston does have more experience with the 4-3 at the college level, though. . .

long is probably the more balanced of the two, and IMO projects to the 4-3 as a LDE with excellent pass rush potential (although he didn't produce big sack numbers before this season). . . i see him being a power end in the aaron kampman mold, but even more athletic and quicker. . . ghloston will be a pure pass-rushing RDE in the 4-3, but he also has great potential to be a balanced player (the guy is incredibly ripped with no fat on him anywhere, and showed his exceptional upper body strength by putting up a sick 37 reps on the bench at the combine). . . i think long will be the better run defender, and should make a more immediate impact-- he's probably the safer pick. . . i see gholston being the better edge rusher, and IMO he has even higher upside than long. . . both look to have the versatility to switch to 3-4 OLB, and both are fantastic prospects. . . it really just depends on what a team is looking for, but i think either of them are good enough to go as high as #1 overall. . .

[TXBRONC]

Honest question here... What's wrong with Maroney? I think the Pats nuts not to go for a more solid running game with him. I'm just not sure their line can run block, 'cause they definitely pass to set up the run, and then their next play is a pass anyway. But Maroney seems to the real deal if they would use him that way.

Hasn't he had a problem staying relatively healthy?

[claymore]

Draft leads to offensive tackle?
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 03/09/2008 11:09:42 PM MDT


Now that the Broncos' free-agency plan has been made apparent, indications are the team is leaning toward taking an offensive tackle with either its first- or second-round pick in the NFL draft.

Tackles who may be considered worthy of the Broncos' No. 12 overall selection include Boise State's Ryan Clady, Vanderbilt's Chris Williams (who three years ago was responsible for protecting Jay Cutler's blind side) and Pittburgh's Jeff Otah.

Besides two linebackers and two safeties, the Broncos' judicious free-agent shopping spree nabbed receiver Keary Colbert.

The Broncos want to bring in at least one more tackle, and possibly two, to compete with Ryan Harris and Erik Pears.
If ever I was sure of a pick, it will be an LT unless the top 3-4 are gone(Long, Clady, Otah, and Williams).

[MHCBill]

There are zero linebackers worthy of the #12 pick.

Most people say there are zero safeties worth the #12 pick.

Just because we signed some linebackers and safeties doesn't logically lead me to believe we are drafting an OT at #12.

If we go OT in round one, I pray that we've traded back. Even if it's to pick up a #4.

No value for an OT this year at #12!!!!!!

[claymore]

There are zero linebackers worthy of the #12 pick.

Most people say there are zero safeties worth the #12 pick.

Just because we signed some linebackers and safeties doesn't logically lead me to believe we are drafting an OT at #12.

If we go OT in round one, I pray that we've traded back. Even if it's to pick up a #4.

No value for an OT this year at #12!!!!!!

You dont value Clady or Otah at 12?

[MHCBill]

tough tough call...

If (and it's a big if) they are both there I say try and trade back and grab one later.

I'm just not sold that there is any major differences between Clady, Williams, Otah, Cherilous, Nicks, Albert, etc.

Hence, no real value at #12 drafting an OT imo. You could take anyone of those guys in round two and not really lose much imo. Why do it at #12 overall then?

Get value... draft Stewart!

[claymore]

tough tough call...

If (and it's a big if) they are both there I say try and trade back and grab one later.

I'm just not sold that there is any major differences between Clady, Williams, Otah, Cherilous, Nicks, Albert, etc.

Hence, no real value at #12 drafting an OT imo. You could take anyone of those guys in round two and not really lose much imo. Why do it at #12 overall then?

Get value... draft Stewart!
I like Stewart, but really want a Tackle. I am no evaluator, but there are some teams behind us who are extra horny for Clady. If we asses that the value is very close in Clady, Williams, Otah, Cherilous, Nicks, Albert. Or we actually prefer a Cherilous, Nicks, Albert, then hell yeah trade back. Carolina is 13 and they are super horny.

[MHCBill]

Is it gay to be super horny for an OT?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Who honestly thinks that the OT that we take in round 1 or even round 2 will start this season...unless we have an injury and he is forced into the starting lineup?

The guy better be super smart and have off the chart athletic ability.

[fcspikeit]

There are zero linebackers worthy of the #12 pick.

Most people say there are zero safeties worth the #12 pick.

Just because we signed some linebackers and safeties doesn't logically lead me to believe we are drafting an OT at #12.

If we go OT in round one, I pray that we've traded back. Even if it's to pick up a #4.

No value for an OT this year at #12!!!!!!

A Lot has changed the last couple weeks.. Clady was seen as a reach at 12 by a lot of people, now people are saying IF he is there... I suppose we can thank Herm for that one :D The fact teams are talking about taking him at 6, makes getting him at 12 look a lot better.

He hasn't had his pro day yet, When is it? (I should know beings I live here :D)

With as many days until the draft and with all the pro days yet to come, I suspect there will be a lot more shuffling around in the top 20..

[MHCBill]

Actually I believe Clady did have his Pro-day last week.

[CoachChaz]

As long as the fate of this franchise rests on Cutler's right arm for the next decade, I want as much protection for him as possible.

[MHCBill]

What's the difference between Clady and...

Otah
Nicks
Cherilous
Baker
Albert
Williams

Is he that much better than any of these guys, or because some "experts" have him in their top 15 mock people think he's that much better?

[MHCBill]

As long as the fate of this franchise rests on Cutler's right arm for the next decade, I want as much protection for him as possible.A dominant running game will help nearly as much as an average LT.

[CoachChaz]

A dominant running game will help nearly as much as an average LT.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

You can put any runner in your backfield that you want...on 3rd and long, I'm teeing off on the passer.

[MHCBill]

Let's try to stay out of 3rd and long...

[fcspikeit]

Who honestly thinks that the OT that we take in round 1 or even round 2 will start this season...unless we have an injury and he is forced into the starting lineup?

The guy better be super smart and have off the chart athletic ability.

If our history is any indication you would appear to be right, But we normaly don't draft Oline this high. I would think you would expect more out of a 1st round pick then you would one taken in the later rounds.. If their all just future projects, why would you ever take one in round 1?

A lot of it has to do with where they played and the system they ran. The learning curve should be easier then say, a QB. At least as far as Learning their assignments. IMO, most of it comes down to teckneek (SP?). If they are so far behind the NFL level, they probably have no business going in the first round...

[fcspikeit]

Actually I believe Clady did have his Pro-day last week.

Are you sure about that? I haven't heard anything about it. I would have thought they would be justifying his mock draft rating with it..

[Bronco9798]

Actually I believe Clady did have his Pro-day last week.

Yes, and he was very impressive for what it's worth.

[Bronco9798]

urphy: Clady solidifies his draft status

BY BRIAN MURPHY - bmurphy@idahostatesman.com
Edition Date: 03/04/08

Sonya Kemp scours the Internet nightly for information about her nephew, craving any nugget that might reveal his NFL Draft stock is rising or any suggestion that a team might be interested.

"That's how I get myself ready to go to bed at night," Kemp said.

Kemp can rest easy now.

Her nephew - former Boise State left tackle Ryan Clady - aced his most important pre-draft workout Monday at Boise State's pro day, erasing any doubt about his status as a high first-round pick in April's draft.

Pro day attracted more than 50 NFL personnel from 30 teams to the Caven-Williams Sports Complex to time and test Clady and other former Boise State football players.

Clady ran his 40-yard dash in 5.18 seconds, unofficially. He showcased a vertical leap of 31 inches and a broad jump of nine feet. All three efforts would have placed him in the top 10 among lineman at the NFL Scouting Combine. The vertical was better than any offensive linemen's at the event.

I have no idea what that means in a football context - the next time an offensive lineman is asked to jump nine feet in a football game will be the first time - but Clady seemed happy.

"I didn't know I had that in me. Where did that come from? Must have been adrenaline," said Clady, showing more emotion in interviews than at any point in his standout Bronco career.

Clady, who did not do the bench press Monday, showed no ill effects from the strained pectoral muscle that knocked him out of last week's combine. During line drills, he showed the explosiveness and athleticism that brought scouts from around the country.

"Everyone, to a man, said he blew them away. He was extremely athletic, extremely quick," his agent Pat Dye Jr. said after the session. "Quick hands. Quick feet. That's what you look for in a great pass blocker and that's what they pay people in this league at his position to do."

Now that the 40s and bench presses and shuttle drills are over, Clady, who left school after his junior season, can concentrate on offensive line work.

That bodes well for him.

At a time when NFL teams are looking for reasons not to draft players, Clady - a lean 6-foot-6 and 311 pounds - didn't give them one Monday.

He handled the bull rush from Tad Miller, a question some have asked. He showed solid aggressiveness, a concern teams have expressed to Dye.

"They want to see, they want to be convinced he has the right temperament and disposition to play offensive line," Dye said. "If you're going to draft a guy as high as he's going to be drafted, they want to know he's got that in him."

The Carolina Panthers sent five officials, including head coach John Fox. And it isn't because Boise is lovely this time of year. The Chicago Bears are sending head coach Lovie Smith next week for a private workout.

Carolina picks No. 13 in the first round. Chicago selects 14th.

"Some teams are like, 'We're probably not going to be able to get you.' Teams in the 20s say that to me," Clady said.

Carolina and Chicago might be saying that soon.

The Kansas City Chiefs, who select fifth, need an offensive tackle. Their representative told Dye that Clady "did nothing but impress" Monday.

Yes, that's what agents are supposed to say. They're supposed to talk up their clients.

But the buzz in the indoor facility and the rush of NFL people to talk to Clady after his workout signified he had, indeed, impressed.

The word is out.

That he will be the highest-ever draft pick from Boise State, which has never had a first-round selection, is a foregone conclusion.

Can he be the highest-ever draft pick from Eisenhower High is a better question? Ronnie Lott was selected at No. 8 by the San Francisco 49ers in 1981.

"I've had multiple conversations with (Miami Dolphins' boss Bill) Parcells about the first pick," Dye said. "I'm not saying they're going to do it, but the fact that he's being discussed in that realm tells you how people think about him."

All of which leads to the newest dilemma for Clady. One that Sonya, who could not be missed in her No. 79 Bronco jersey at pro day, already admits is getting her nervous: How to handle the draft party?

Clady might be invited to New York for the draft, an honor typically reserved for players expected to be picked in the top 10. Will he go?

"I haven't ruled it out completely, but I kind of don't want to be a part of that whole atmosphere," Clady said. "I want to lay low and just hang out with family and friends."

It is a great problem to have.

And one that shouldn't keep anybody up at night.

[fcspikeit]

A dominant running game will help nearly as much as an average LT.

The key word here being "average"


?????????????????????????????????????????????????

You can put any runner in your backfield that you want...on 3rd and long, I'm teeing off on the passer.

Good point, but both will help for shorter 3rd downs. However, a LT will help more inside the 5 and on every passing game. That's what were talking about right,, Protecting Cutler?


If we were talking about Jake Long, I would say its a no brainer. Beings he will be Long gone (:lol:) the question comes down to, is whoever who is still on the board, really worthy of the 12th overall pick?

[fcspikeit]

"I've had multiple conversations with (Miami Dolphins' boss Bill) Parcells about the first pick," Dye said. "I'm not saying they're going to do it, but the fact that he's being discussed in that realm tells you how people think about him."


The only way I see this happening is if the phins trade down...

This is a really good thing either way, Clady might help push Dorsey or Ellis to us, or he might just be worth the 12th pick..

IMO, if Dorsey or Ellis are still on the board when we pick, it's a no brainer...

[Bronco9798]

OT is a pretty strong area this year. Take one now while you can while the getting is good and draft to the strength of the draft.

[MOtorboat]

I've documented fairly well, that tackle is a pretty safe bet in the first round, and that they can contribute immediately. It just so happens that the one real bust in the last 10 years was drafted by Denver. That's why our fans are leery. Meanwhile, we haven't drafted a running back in the first round since Sewell, so everyone thinks that's a safer pick. I don't think it is. Plus, we can find a quality back in the second or fourth rounds, and I really can't say the same about tackle.

[CoachChaz]

It's pretty obvious that the RB clas is MUCH deeper this year than the OT class. Yes, there are some decent OT's available later on, but not nearly as good as the guys projected in the 1st round.

[fcspikeit]

I've documented fairly well, that tackle is a pretty safe bet in the first round, and that they can contribute immediately. It just so happens that the one real bust in the last 10 years was drafted by Denver. That's why our fans are leery. Meanwhile, we haven't drafted a running back in the first round since Sewell, so everyone thinks that's a safer pick. I don't think it is. Plus, we can find a quality back in the second or fourth rounds, and I really can't say the same about tackle.

Wasn't Kwame Harris a 1st rounder by the 9iners?

[MOtorboat]

Wasn't Kwame Harris a 1st rounder by the 9iners?

OK...two...

I really don't want to go dig up all my research on it, but I might have to again...

[turftoad]

Wasn't Kwame Harris a 1st rounder by the 9iners?

Yes he was. 2003, 26th overall. Then a bust. We drafted Foster 20th overall that year. Bust also.
So much for 1st round "O" line always pan out.

[fcspikeit]

OK...two...

I really don't want to go dig up all my research on it, but I might have to again...

Don't do it on my account.. I'm sure the higher OT is selected the fewer the bust's..

No matter what, there will always be the Gorge Fosters and the Kwame Harris' of the draft..

Maybe we shouldn't even use those names in a draft OT thread?

I have visions of our future 12th round T getting thrown on the ground like a 12 year old school girl.....Then watching Cutler pulling grass out of his ear hole..

[tubby]

OK...two...

I really don't want to go dig up all my research on it, but I might have to again...

Don't forget Gallery. Start digging.

[fcspikeit]

Don't forget Gallery. Start digging.

Its a good thing old Al learned from that one, after all he found his replacement in Kwame Harris....:lol: :lol: :lol:

[MOtorboat]

Don't forget Gallery. Start digging.

Is he a bust? He's going to be a starting guard for 10-15 years (barring injury). Is that actually a bust?

[turftoad]

OK...two...

I really don't want to go dig up all my research on it, but I might have to again...

OK Mo, you're pretty much correct. Went back and looked myself. There are more than two but not many.
Go look for yourselves.
List of all the OT's by round:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=Tackles&type=position

[fcspikeit]

Is he a bust? He's going to be a starting guard for 10-15 years (barring injury). Is that actually a bust?

Wasn't he drafted as an OT?

[mclark]

Yes he was. 2003, 26th overall. Then a bust. We drafted Foster 20th overall that year. Bust also.
So much for 1st round "O" line always pan out.

There is no guarantee that first-round anything ALWAYS work out. There have been first-round flops at every position.

We spent a first-round pick on Sewell -- and he played like a third-round pick. Good utility back but certainly not great.

There have been other first round backs who have been flops: Chris Perry and Kevin Jones in 2004 come to mind.

Cedric Benson and Cadillac Williams in 2005.

William Green and T.J Ducket in 2002.

You just never know.

[MOtorboat]

Wasn't he drafted as an OT?

Yes, and it turned out he's going to be a starting guard for years to come, barring injury. Is it the greatest scenario, no, but he's still a large contributor to that offense, which btw, if you haven't noticed, can run the ball.

[MHCBill]

Oh well, we all can keep discussing this for another 6+ weeks...

Some prefer OT, some prefer RB.

To each their own...

[fcspikeit]

Yes, and it turned out he's going to be a starting guard for years to come, barring injury. Is it the greatest scenario, no, but he's still a large contributor to that offense, which btw, if you haven't noticed, can run the ball.

At any rate, he would be considered a Bust as a 1st round tackle..

Comparing Oakland's running #'s to ours, considering they have such a good "running" game,, why are we talking about drafting a OT again? :confused:

[MOtorboat]

At any rate, he would be considered a Bust as a 1st round tackle..

Comparing Oakland's running #'s to ours, considering they have such a good "running" game,, why are we talking about drafting a OT again? :confused:

:confused: Don't offensive tackles play on the offensive line. Isn't a good offensive line key to a running game?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Oh well, we all can keep discussing this for another 6+ weeks...

Some prefer OT, some prefer RB.

To each their own...

Jonathan Stewart or Mendenhall in the 1st round and then Carl Nicks, Anthony Collins, Gosder Cherilus, Sam Baker or Duane Brown in the 2nd round.


or

Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah in the 1st round and then Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, or Chris Johnson in the 2nd round?

[tubby]

Is he a bust? He's going to be a starting guard for 10-15 years (barring injury). Is that actually a bust?

Yes.

[claymore]

Jonathan Stewart or Mendenhall in the 1st round and then Carl Nicks, Anthony Collins, Gosder Cherilus, Sam Baker or Duane Brown in the 2nd round.


or

Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah in the 1st round and then Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, or Chris Johnson in the 2nd round?
I like Option 2. A good LT will make Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, or Chris Johnson look like Stewart or Mendenhall.

[MHCBill]

Jonathan Stewart or Mendenhall in the 1st round and then Carl Nicks, Anthony Collins, Gosder Cherilus, Sam Baker or Duane Brown in the 2nd round.

or

Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah in the 1st round and then Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, or Chris Johnson in the 2nd round?I prefer option #1 in red soooooooooooooo much more than option two.

In all actuality I would prefer Stewart #1, Lofton #2, and Greco #4a.

There is a ton of OT depth as well as RB depth... I just think the top three RB's are much better than the rest of the RB's and I think the top three OT's are very close to the next 10 OT's.

IMO

[MOtorboat]

Here's my original post...not really in-depth statistical analysis, but...


As far as the first round goes...tackle.

Certainly not "safe," it's always a gamble, but:

2007 (Hard to tell in the long-run, but all three started this season)
Joe Thomas, Cleveland, Started 16 of 16
Levi Brown, Arizona, Started 11 in 13 games
Joe Staley, San Francisco, Started 16 of 16

2006
D'Brickashaw Ferguson, New York Jets, started 16 of 16 rookie year, 16 this year

2005
Jammal Brown, New Orleans, started 13 out of 13, hasn't missed a game since
Alex Barron, St. Louis, started 11 in 12 games in rookie year, hasn't missed a game since

2004
Robert Gallery, Oakland, started all but six games in four years (injured in 2006), though he hasn't played all of them at tackle
Shawn Andrews, Philadelphia, started one game in rookie season, LT ever since
Vernon Carey, Miami, started two games in rookie season, played in 14, LT ever since

2003
Jordan Gross, Carolina, started every game, All-Pro in rookie season, starting RT
George Foster, Denver, maybe the first real bust on the list, though he started three seasons for the Broncos, didn't start his first year
Kwame Harris, San Francisco, started five games rookie season 7 in his second, full-time starter in 2005 and 2006, now a backup

2002
Mike Williams, Buffalo, started on and off for three seasons, now out of the league, bust
Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, started seven games rookie season, hasn't missed a game since

2001
Kenyatta Walker, Tampa Bay, started all but 10 games in first give seasons, has struggled with injury
Jeff Backus, Detroit, started every game of his career

2000
Chris Samuels, Washington, started all but three games in his career
Stockar McDougle, started sparingly for Detroit in first three seasons, full-time starter for two others, backup with Jacksonville now
Chris McIntosh, Seatlle, bust

And another interesting tidbit...not my research, it's from the local sports talk radio host at noon in KC, Soren Petro.


14 of the last 22 left tackles on Super Bowl team (12 Super Bowls) were drafted by the team they played for in the Super Bowl in the first round. 18 were drafted in the first round, and four were later acquired by their team.

[CoachChaz]

I prefer option #1 in red soooooooooooooo much more than option two.

In all actuality I would prefer Stewart #1, Lofton #2, and Greco #4a.

There is a ton of OT depth as well as RB depth... I just think the top three RB's are much better than the rest of the RB's and I think the top three OT's are very close to the next 10 OT's.

IMO

WOW!

[MHCBill]

I like Option 2. A good LT will make Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, or Chris Johnson look like Stewart or Mendenhall.

A Stewart or Mendenhall will make Cherilous, Baker, and Nicks look like Otah, Williams, and Clady.

[fcspikeit]

:confused: Don't offensive tackles play on the offensive line. Isn't a good offensive line key to a running game?

Right, except Gallery is now a "guard" not a Tackle...

End besides that,

Oakland's great running game was ranked 6th with 11 TD's

While our running game was ranked 9th with 10 DT's.

3 places and 1 less TD don't exactly scream out the need of a 1st round OT.
Except maybe you need a better OT to help out in the "passing" game ;)

[claymore]

A Stewart or Mendenhall will make Cherilous, Baker, and Nicks look like Otah, Williams, and Clady.The average life of a RB is three years though.

[BOSSHOGG30]

The average life of a RB is three years though.

Is that even true? or does this take into account all RB's? The stud backs that made it in these league have been around for more than 3 years... hell, even Travis Henry has made it longer than 3 years.

[mclark]

Jonathan Stewart or Mendenhall in the 1st round and then Carl Nicks, Anthony Collins, Gosder Cherilus, Sam Baker or Duane Brown in the 2nd round.


or

Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah in the 1st round and then Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, or Chris Johnson in the 2nd round?

Sign Max Starks OT and DeWayne Robertson DT as free agents. Then draft Jonathan Stewart and Sam Baker. I could live with that.

But at the moment we're pretty desperate for help at Defensive Tackle. The scenario above puts off defensive tackle to the 4th round? At the moment, do we need a running back more than a defensive tackle?

[claymore]

Is that even true? or does this take into account all RB's? The stud backs that made it in these league have been around for more than 3 years... hell, even Travis Henry has made it longer than 3 years.Thats the stat Ive always heard. But an every down back hardly ever makes a full season, LT type is an exception to this rule, but I think he is wearing down now.

[turftoad]

The average life of a RB is three years though.

Jeeeeezz........... In that case we should draft one in the first round like every 2 years then. One on the bench, two as a starter.
Some folks on this site would love that.

[turftoad]

Sign Max Starks OT and DeWayne Robertson DT as free agents. Then draft Jonathan Stewart and Sam Baker. I could live with that.

But at the moment we're pretty desperate for help at Defensive Tackle. The scenario above puts off defensive tackle to the 4th round? At the moment, do we need a running back more than a defensive tackle?

Not even........

[MHCBill]

The average life of a RB is three years though.
Not pro-bowl running backs.

[mclark]

If Gallery gets switched to guard and becomes a starter at guard for 10-12 years he is definitely NOT a bust.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Thats the stat Ive always heard. But an every down back hardly ever makes a full season, LT type is an exception to this rule, but I think he is wearing down now.

1 L. Tomlinson RB, SDG
315 1474 7
2 A. Peterson RB, MIN
238 1341 1
3 B. Westbrook RB, PHI
278 1333 6
4 Willie Parker RB, PIT
321 1316 4
5 Jamal Lewis RB, CLE
298 1304 8
6 C. Portis RB, WAS
325 1262 6
7 E. James RB, ARI
324 1222 9
8 W. McGahee RB, BAL
294 1207 5
9 Fred Taylor RB, JAC
223 1202 10
10 Thomas Jones RB, NYJ
310 1119 8


If you look at the top 10 rusher from the 2007 season, the average age is over 6 years and that average is even brought down by rookie Adrian Peterson

[mclark]

The only way the average life of a RB in the NFl is three years is if you also count all the backs that get cut every year.

[claymore]

1 L. Tomlinson RB, SDG
315 1474 7
2 A. Peterson RB, MIN
238 1341 1
3 B. Westbrook RB, PHI
278 1333 6
4 Willie Parker RB, PIT
321 1316 4
5 Jamal Lewis RB, CLE
298 1304 8
6 C. Portis RB, WAS
325 1262 6
7 E. James RB, ARI
324 1222 9
8 W. McGahee RB, BAL
294 1207 5
9 Fred Taylor RB, JAC
223 1202 10
10 Thomas Jones RB, NYJ
310 1119 8


If you look at the top 10 rusher from the 2007 season, the average age is over 6 years and that average is even brought down by rookie Adrian Peterson
But Tomlinson off the top of my head is the only one that started all 16 games.

Another thing is roughly 5 of those guys were drafted in the second round or later. Taylor (constant boo boo) Is the only one I dont remember where he was drafted.

[BOSSHOGG30]

The point is to win games... not keep players at the same position for 20 years. With the free agent market like it is... it doesn't gaurantee you that you will even have that player for that long.

[MHCBill]

A lot of OT's were drafted in the 2nd round too.

[MHCBill]

Do you think the people at Dove Valley discuss/debate the draft and the team's roster as much as we all do?

[tubby]

If Gallery gets switched to guard and becomes a starter at guard for 10-12 years he is definitely NOT a bust.

Ok, he has 10 years to redeem himself but as of 3/10/2008 he is a colossal bust.

[MOtorboat]

1 L. Tomlinson RB, SDG
2 A. Peterson RB, MIN - No. 7 Pick overall.
3 B. Westbrook RB, PHI - No. 91 Pick
4 Willie Parker RB, PIT - Undrafted...
5 Jamal Lewis RB, CLE - No. 5
6 C. Portis RB, WAS - No. 51
7 E. James RB, ARI - No. 4
8 W. McGahee RB, BAL - No. 23 (but only because of injury)
9 Fred Taylor RB, JAC - No. 9
10 Thomas Jones RB, NYJ - No. 7

Very good point, Boss...I just thought I'd point out where they were drafted, and yes, most were drafted Top 10 (or should have been in McGahee's case), but Portis, Westbrook and Parker are all examples of why we can wait to draft a running back, especially as deep as it looks this draft class is.

[BOSSHOGG30]

L. Tomlinson RB, SDG, 1st round

A. Peterson RB, MIN, 1st round

B. Westbrook RB, PHI, 3rd round

Willie Parker RB, PIT, undrafted

Jamal Lewis RB, CLE, 1st round

C. Portis RB, WAS, 2nd round

E. James RB, ARI, 1st round

W. McGahee RB, BAL, 1st round

Fred Taylor RB, JAC, 1st round

Thomas Jones RB, NYJ, 1st round

7 out of the 10 were 1st rounders

[mclark]

Do you think the people at Dove Valley discuss/debate the draft and the team's roster as much as we all do?

Yes. But they have to be more diplomatic about it. They can't really say 'Shanny was stupid to trade Warren' and 'Pears is a backup, nothing more'....so I think there are more pregnant pauses at Dove Valley.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Very good point, Boss...I just thought I'd point out where they were drafted, and yes, most were drafted Top 10 (or should have been in McGahee's case), but Portis, Westbrook and Parker are all examples of why we can wait to draft a running back, especially as deep as it looks this draft class is.

Westbrook and Parker are examples of why we could have backs like that if we had an all star offensive line.

The other backs are examples of how 1st round backs can dominate even with an average line to good line.

[tubby]

Guys, did you see the Broncos Bills game yesterday on NFL Network? Travis Henry was a beast! He had 139 yards rushing and 44 yard receiving.

[mclark]

Guys, did you see the Broncos Bills game yesterday on NFL Network? Travis Henry was a beast! He had 139 yards rushing and 44 yard receiving.

Keep him healthy, focused and away from his friends, and he can be an asset on Sundays.

[MHCBill]

Westbrook and Parker are examples of why we could have backs like that if we had an all star offensive line.

The other backs are examples of how 1st round backs can dominate even with an average line to good line.Swing and a long drive... it's outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MHCBill]

Keep him healthy, focused and away from his friends, and he can be an asset on Sundays.That would be a first...

Plus he's a year older.

[turftoad]

If Gallery gets switched to guard and becomes a starter at guard for 10-12 years he is definitely NOT a bust.

Kind of. They drafted him to be the franchise LT. He couldn't cut it. LT's are harder to find than guards. If they spent a first rounder on him to firm up the LT spot for 10yrs then he failed.

[BOSSHOGG30]

We need to get our running game back on track.... only 1 OT with a 1st round grade is considered a monster run blocker.... Otah is his name. All of you who want Clady and even Williams... I hope you know that they are considered, very good pass blockers and average run blockers. Neither guy will really improve our running game. So for you Otah guys... then you have to say the opposite. Otah is a mauler. He is a very good run blocker, but has questions about his pass blocking and over all athletic ability.

Stewart can do it all. Fast, pass blocking, powerful, 3rd down back, short yardage back, kick returner... you name it, he can pretty much do it.

Henry is 30 years old. He is on the decline, just like most backs, especially power backs, do when they hit the 30 + mark. The wear and tear get to them. Denver needs a power back. Stewart is great between the tackles and Young is great outside the tackles. It would give us a great one, two punch.

Henry can play this year, let Stewart learn the system, and stick to Kick return duties and part time roles with the offense, unless he just comes in and takes off and earns his way into the starting lineup.

[turftoad]

We need to get our running game back on track.... only 1 OT with a 1st round grade is considered a monster run blocker.... Otah is his name. All of you who want Clady and even Williams... I hope you know that they are considered, very good pass blockers and average run blockers. Neither guy will really improve our running game. So for you Otah guys... then you have to say the opposite. Otah is a mauler. He is a very good run blocker, but has questions about his pass blocking and over all athletic ability.

Stewart can do it all. Fast, pass blocking, powerful, 3rd down back, short yardage back, kick returner... you name it, he can pretty much do it.

Henry is 30 years old. He is on the decline, just like most backs, especially power backs, do when they hit the 30 + mark. The wear and tear get to them. Denver needs a power back. Stewart is great between the tackles and Young is great outside the tackles. It would give us a great one, two punch.

Henry can play this year, let Stewart learn the system, and stick to Kick return duties and part time roles with the offense, unless he just comes in and takes off and earns his way into the starting lineup.

Boss, out running game is not a problem. We were 9th in rushing last year.

What's broke is our run"D". Thats what needs to get back on track.

Our "D" was 28th in the league vs the run. Pretty much of a more pressing need when you look at that.

[mclark]

We need to get our running game back on track.... only 1 OT with a 1st round grade is considered a monster run blocker.... Otah is his name. All of you who want Clady and even Williams... I hope you know that they are considered, very good pass blockers and average run blockers. Neither guy will really improve our running game. So for you Otah guys... then you have to say the opposite. Otah is a mauler. He is a very good run blocker, but has questions about his pass blocking and over all athletic ability.

Stewart can do it all. Fast, pass blocking, powerful, 3rd down back, short yardage back, kick returner... you name it, he can pretty much do it.

Henry is 30 years old. He is on the decline, just like most backs, especially power backs, do when they hit the 30 + mark. The wear and tear get to them. Denver needs a power back. Stewart is great between the tackles and Young is great outside the tackles. It would give us a great one, two punch.

Henry can play this year, let Stewart learn the system, and stick to Kick return duties and part time roles with the offense, unless he just comes in and takes off and earns his way into the starting lineup.

Actually, to keep Cutler from getting killed, we need a pass-blocking left tackle. But I would not argue that we also need a run-blocking right tackle. We probably need both.

I can see us drafting Stewart -- if we sign a quality offensive tackle and a quality defensive tackle before the draft.

[claymore]

We need to get our running game back on track.... only 1 OT with a 1st round grade is considered a monster run blocker.... Otah is his name. All of you who want Clady and even Williams... I hope you know that they are considered, very good pass blockers and average run blockers. Neither guy will really improve our running game. So for you Otah guys... then you have to say the opposite. Otah is a mauler. He is a very good run blocker, but has questions about his pass blocking and over all athletic ability.

Stewart can do it all. Fast, pass blocking, powerful, 3rd down back, short yardage back, kick returner... you name it, he can pretty much do it.

Henry is 30 years old. He is on the decline, just like most backs, especially power backs, do when they hit the 30 + mark. The wear and tear get to them. Denver needs a power back. Stewart is great between the tackles and Young is great outside the tackles. It would give us a great one, two punch.

Henry can play this year, let Stewart learn the system, and stick to Kick return duties and part time roles with the offense, unless he just comes in and takes off and earns his way into the starting lineup.
Thats what I needed to hear. I just dont like the Idea of harris or pears playing LT. Im concerned with Run blocking and Pass blocking.

I really hope we pull some magic out, and find great talent in the later rounds.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Boss, out running game is not a problem. We were 9th in rushing last year.

What's broke is our run"D". Thats what needs to get back on track.

Our "D" was 28th in the league vs the run. Pretty much of a more pressing need when you look at that.

I understand we are getting yards... that isn't my main goal or focus by adding a guy like Jonathan Stewart. We struggled in short yardage situations, touchdowns, and the red zone.

Young isn't big enough or powerful enough to constantly pound it between the tackles. Our o-line isn't big enough or strong enough to move the pile. We need a big back who can not only drive the pile and pick up yards in short yardage situations, but a guy who is a multiple threat. Stewart is so good that defenses key on him. This opens up other players. Marshall, Stokley, Cutler, our runningbacks, our return game, and the defense all benifit from a back like Stewart.

[mclark]

Kind of. They drafted him to be the franchise LT. He couldn't cut it. LT's are harder to find than guards. If they spent a first rounder on him to firm up the LT spot for 10yrs then he failed.

With all the first round busts every year, I think I'd be alright with a first-round starting guard for 10 years. That's why I wanted us to try Foster at guard. It would be better than a total washout. If Foster had moved to guard and become a quality guard (yes, guard is easier to play than tackle) I wouldn't consider him a bust.

What percentage of busts do we get in the first round? 15-20%?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Look at what LenDale White did for the Titans. He may not be in the same class of Adrian Peterson, or even Mendenhall or Stewart this year, but it goes to show you what a big back can do for an offense.

The Titans O-line isn't great. I wouldn't consider them bad either, but average... Very similar to ours if I had to compare. Vince Young really struggled this year, but the Titans offense was effective because they were able to keep the ball long enough to allow their defense to rest and they way they did it was by running the football. White proved to be a tough runner who moved the chains.

I would have to say that we have the better QB, WR, and TE too, so how much better could we be if we had a power back who can move the chains?

[lex]

Boss, out running game is not a problem. We were 9th in rushing last year.
What's broke is our run"D". Thats what needs to get back on track.

Our "D" was 28th in the league vs the run. Pretty much of a more pressing need when you look at that.

I had no idea that our benchmark for having a good running game was being 9th in the league. Long ago are the days when we could win playoff games by running the football against good teams on the road. I guess I have a completely different benchmark for our running game than the rest of you.

[mclark]

Look at what LenDale White did for the Titans. He may not be in the same class of Adrian Peterson, or even Mendenhall or Stewart this year, but it goes to show you what a big back can do for an offense.

The Titans O-line isn't great. I wouldn't consider them bad either, but average... Very similar to ours if I had to compare. Vince Young really struggled this year, but the Titans offense was effective because they were able to keep the ball long enough to allow their defense to rest and they way they did it was by running the football. White proved to be a tough runner who moved the chains.

I would have to say that we have the better QB, WR, and TE too, so how much better could we be if we had a power back who can move the chains?

No question, Stewart would vitalize our running game. But we need those free agent signings first, to get it done.

[lex]

I understand we are getting yards... that isn't my main goal or focus by adding a guy like Jonathan Stewart. We struggled in short yardage situations, touchdowns, and the red zone.

Young isn't big enough or powerful enough to constantly pound it between the tackles. Our o-line isn't big enough or strong enough to move the pile. We need a big back who can not only drive the pile and pick up yards in short yardage situations, but a guy who is a multiple threat. Stewart is so good that defenses key on him. This opens up other players. Marshall, Stokley, Cutler, our runningbacks, our return game, and the defense all benifit from a back like Stewart.

I think not converting long runs into touchdowns is just as or almost as big. It actually contributes to what you mentioned. If we could have finished more long runs, the red zone struggles would be less glaring.

[Lonestar]

Do you think the people at Dove Valley discuss/debate the draft and the team's roster as much as we all do?

With their record obviously not..

[BOSSHOGG30]

Funny thing is... Denver produces two positions very well usually... OL and RB

They have a history of taking guys in the later rounds for this position, yet we are all divided amongst this position. Truth is, at least according to history, we will take a S, WR, DL, or LB

[Lonestar]

With all the first round busts every year, I think I'd be alright with a first-round starting guard for 10 years. That's why I wanted us to try Foster at guard. It would be better than a total washout. If Foster had moved to guard and become a quality guard (yes, guard is easier to play than tackle) I wouldn't consider him a bust.

What percentage of busts do we get in the first round? 15-20%?

Take LB out of the equation we have had ONE other 1st rounder that was worth a damn.. price and someone needed to be on his back from day one after he signed the fat contract.. lots of talent little desire to be the best he could be..

So bust factor in DEN for 1 rounders is way high.. For consistent players..

Moss a maybe to soon to tell for sure..
Jay looks pretty good
DJ LB
foster loser
ashely loser
middle broken loser
delta inconsistent loser
Wilson LB
nash total loser
price
mobley LB

[BOSSHOGG30]

Another thing to consider when it comes to a RB... how much longer can we rely on Turner to provide us with decent backs. I mean this man does not get enough credit for what he does. He can turn an underachieving back into an over achieving back. I don't know how he does this, but this man is truely gifted. How much longer will we have his services? Who knows...but I sure would like to find that stud back who can grow up with Cutler, Marshall, and Scheffler and if we could have an already overachieving back paired up with Turner.... I can't imagine how great our offense could be for years to come.

[Bronco9798]

Another thing to consider when it comes to a RB... how much longer can we rely on Turner to provide us with decent backs. I mean this man does not get enough credit for what he does. He can turn an underachieving back into an over achieving back. I don't know how he does this, but this man is truely gifted. How much longer will we have his services? Who knows...but I sure would like to find that stud back who can grow up with Cutler, Marshall, and Scheffler and if we could have an already overachieving back paired up with Turner.... I can't imagine how great our offense could be for years to come.

An OT has more football life than a RB also. A RB on average is about a 5 year shelf in the NFL. An OL usually far exceeds that.

[BOSSHOGG30]

An OT has more football life than a RB also. A RB on average is about a 5 year shelf in the NFL. An OL usually far exceeds that.

Then get a OL in the 2nd round... Not that big of a drop in talent from the 1st to 2nd round.

[eessydo]

Ryan Clady tested well on his pro day, eclipsing all other OT's on the shuttle run. He is looking more like a 12 pick. If he is not on the board then you can look at a running back with certainty.

Let's look at the results:

5.18 secs (40 yard dash / beat out Jake Long an all other OT's)
7.20 Sec (3 cone drill / good for the #1 slot for ALL linemen)
31" Vertical (good for #1 slot for ALL lineman)

This guy is a top notch athlete AND has the size.

If he drops off the board I would personally still go with Keith Rivers then a running back, but it appears the broncos may be positioning for either the OT or RB pick.

Who knows. I personally believe the game is won and loss with your trench hogs, skill positions, especially RB's are a dime a dozen.

[Bronco9798]

If Clady is there at 12, I say you snatch him without hesitation. I will be so disappointed to see us take a RB at 12.

[turftoad]

I had no idea that our benchmark for having a good running game was being 9th in the league. Long ago are the days when we could win playoff games by running the football against good teams on the road. I guess I have a completely different benchmark for our running game than the rest of you.

I guess I was comparing our running offense (9th) to our running defense (28th) compared to what our worst needs are.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If Clady is there at 12, I say you snatch him without hesitation. I will be so disappointed to see us take a RB at 12.

That is a fair statement, but I don't know why you would be disappointed if we snatch a RB like Mendenhall or Stewart as long as we address other needs in the other rounds or the rest of free season by signings or trades.

[mclark]

If Clady is there at 12, I say you snatch him without hesitation. I will be so disappointed to see us take a RB at 12.

If we would have let Henry walk, then I could see us drafting a runningback early. Now, I just can't see it.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I guess I was comparing our running offense (9th) to our running defense (28th).

The addition of two veteran safeties, the moving of D.J. to WILL, Boss Bailey at SAM and Kootie at MLB should help a lot. Throw in a change of scheme, and our young guys having another year of experience under their belt and you should see improvement.

Also, the offense has to do a better job with clock management and allowing the defense to rest longer by moving the chains on a more consistent basis should help the defense as well.
.

[Watchthemiddle]

Another thing to consider when it comes to a RB... how much longer can we rely on Turner to provide us with decent backs. I mean this man does not get enough credit for what he does. He can turn an underachieving back into an over achieving back. I don't know how he does this, but this man is truely gifted. How much longer will we have his services? Who knows...but I sure would like to find that stud back who can grow up with Cutler, Marshall, and Scheffler and if we could have an already overachieving back paired up with Turner.... I can't imagine how great our offense could be for years to come.

Just think of what Turner could do with a top RB....possibilities are endless.

WIth all the moves on D that we have made this offseason, I am leaning more and more at liking a RB at #12.

[G_Money]

I don't have a strong opinion either way. Either an OT or a RB works for me at the draft slot if we're meeting our other needs another way.

We need more scoring and more sustained drives. We need to be able to get a first down on a 3rd and 2 or to be able to move it into the end-zone after getting to 1st-and-goal.

Fixing the OL helps with that, and also keeps Cutler alive. Bigger holes and better protections allow for more options.

OTOH, a better RB can get yards when the holes are smaller, and a more consistent running game will help keep Cutler from beeing teed off on.

Because great linemen usually have long careers I'd probably put a finger on the scale for the OT, and the fact that we can get a RB later who will be "almost as good" as Stewart/Mendenhall helps me choose "OT" if you really must have an opinion. The thought of "experimenting" with moving guards to tackles and hoping draft picks with back-issues pan out also helps me pick a Clady with that draft choice.

But hearing Stewart or Mendenhall have their names called and come out to tug on the Broncos draft cap would be fine with me too.

No complaints there.

~G

[BOSSHOGG30]

I don't have a strong opinion either way. Either an OT or a RB works for me at the draft slot if we're meeting our other needs another way.

We need more scoring and more sustained drives. We need to be able to get a first down on a 3rd and 2 or to be able to move it into the end-zone after getting to 1st-and-goal.

Fixing the OL helps with that, and also keeps Cutler alive. Bigger holes and better protections allow for more options.

OTOH, a better RB can get yards when the holes are smaller, and a more consistent running game will help keep Cutler from beeing teed off on.

Because great linemen usually have long careers I'd probably put a finger on the scale for the OT, and the fact that we can get a RB later who will be "almost as good" as Stewart/Mendenhall helps me choose "OT" if you really must have an opinion. The thought of "experimenting" with moving guards to tackles and hoping draft picks with back-issues pan out also helps me pick a Clady with that draft choice.

But hearing Stewart or Mendenhall have their names called and come out to tug on the Broncos draft cap would be fine with me too.

No complaints there.

~G

If we do go OT in the first two rounds and we don't have a RB yet...we better jump on Matt Forte, because he is the only other big back that I like.

[dogfish]

Kind of. They drafted him to be the franchise LT. He couldn't cut it. LT's are harder to find than guards. If they spent a first rounder on him to firm up the LT spot for 10yrs then he failed.

yea, you don't spend the #2 overall pick to get a guard. . . . :laugh:

[Bronco9798]

Draft leads to offensive tackle?
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Article Launched: 03/10/2008 01:00:00 AM MDT

Now that the Broncos' free-agency plan has been made apparent, indications are the team is leaning toward taking an offensive tackle with either its first- or second-round pick in the NFL draft.

Tackles who may be considered worthy of the Broncos' No. 12 overall selection include Boise State's Ryan Clady, Vanderbilt's Chris Williams (who three years ago was responsible for protecting Jay Cutler's blind side) and Pittburgh's Jeff Otah.

Besides two linebackers and two safeties, the Broncos' judicious free-agent shopping spree nabbed receiver Keary Colbert.

The Broncos want to bring in at least one more tackle, and possibly two, to compete with Ryan Harris and Erik Pears.

[G_Money]

If we do go OT in the first two rounds and we don't have a RB yet...we better jump on Matt Forte, because he is the only other big back that I like.

Forte or Choice are the only likely 2nd day backs I'd be really thrilled with.:beer:

~G

[TXBRONC]

Who honestly thinks that the OT that we take in round 1 or even round 2 will start this season...unless we have an injury and he is forced into the starting lineup?

The guy better be super smart and have off the chart athletic ability.

There is only one position for sure where a player can have an immediate impact on the offense and that's at running back. A rookie fullback might be able to crack the starting line up but I have doubts that would happen. every other position takes a full year to get acclimated to the offense.

[TXBRONC]

Actually, to keep Cutler from getting killed, we need a pass-blocking left tackle. But I would not argue that we also need a run-blocking right tackle. We probably need both.

I can see us drafting Stewart -- if we sign a quality offensive tackle and a quality defensive tackle before the draft.

Pears did ok in run blocking but his pass blocking was inconsistent.

[Simple Jaded]

Who honestly thinks that the OT that we take in round 1 or even round 2 will start this season...unless we have an injury and he is forced into the starting lineup?

The guy better be super smart and have off the chart athletic ability.

I do!

Rookie LT's start from Day1 all the time.....Joe Thomas being the most recent 1st round pick, Marcus McNeill being the most recent 2nd rounder. Eric Winston started 7games for Kubiak in 06.

It happens every year, why would it be any different for Denver?

Assuming the notion that it takes a while to be able to start for Denver is true with NO EXCEPTIONS, I would think there is no better time to draft a Franchise LT then this year.

A) Denver may finally be drafting high enough to have a shot at a LT worth a sht!

B) If it does take a while to learn Denver's system, you'd want to get started teaching it to him as soon as possible.

Besides, if the system is the reason Denver can't draft Clady/Williams, then I say F' this damn system, already.

What good is a system that almost forces you to draft inferior talent?......

[TXBRONC]

I do!

Rookie LT's start from Day1 all the time.....Joe Thomas being the most recent 1st round pick, Marcus McNeill being the most recent 2nd rounder.

It happens every year, why would it be any different for Denver?

Assuming the notion that it takes a while to be able to start for Denver is true, I would think there is no better time to draft a Franchise LT then this year.

A) Denver may finally be drafting high enough to have a shot at a LT worth a sht!

B) If it does take a while to learn Denver's system, you'd want to get started teaching it to him as soon as possible.

Besides, if the system is the reason Denver can't draft Clady/Williams, then I say F' this damn system, already.

What good is a system that almost forces you to draft inferior talent?......

The system hasn't keep Denver from drafting the likes of Clady, Long, or Williams. Draft position has been reason we haven't drafted the a tackle of Joe Thomas caliber.

Foster while ended failing in Denver it wasn't because he lacked the athleticism to play in Denver's offensive scheme it was that he got lazy about his technique. While I'm not to sure about Montrae Holland apparently the coaching wasn't afraid to make him a starting guard.

[Simple Jaded]

The system hasn't keep Denver from drafting the likes of Clady, Long, or Williams. Draft position has been reason we haven't drafted the a tackle of Joe Thomas caliber.

Foster while ended failing in Denver it wasn't because he lacked the athleticism to play in Denver's offensive scheme it was that he got lazy about his technique. While I'm not to sure about Montrae Holland apparently the coaching wasn't afraid to make him a starting guard.

I agree, TX, which is why I think Denver should get while the gettin's good......

[turftoad]

I do!

Rookie LT's start from Day1 all the time.....Joe Thomas being the most recent 1st round pick, Marcus McNeill being the most recent 2nd rounder. Eric Winston started 7games for Kubiak in 06.

It happens every year, why would it be any different for Denver?

Assuming the notion that it takes a while to be able to start for Denver is true with NO EXCEPTIONS, I would think there is no better time to draft a Franchise LT then this year.

A) Denver may finally be drafting high enough to have a shot at a LT worth a sht!

B) If it does take a while to learn Denver's system, you'd want to get started teaching it to him as soon as possible.

Besides, if the system is the reason Denver can't draft Clady/Williams, then I say F' this damn system, already.

What good is a system that almost forces you to draft inferior talent?......

I think our system has worked pretty well through the years. We've been a top running team for a long time without spending high draft picks on linemen or RB's.

Cutler not getting killed is the reason for not much on the job training in our system.

[turftoad]

I agree, TX, which is why I think Denver should get while the gettin's good......

Link, you could say that about just about every position.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Given the signings this offseason, I see only 2 options. Move up for a DT or take a OT. Clady looks to be gone earlier, which is fine by me. I prefer Otah anyhow. I think trading back gets a bit risky since all 5 OTs may be gone by #20. Long, Clady, Williams, Otah and Cherilus could all go that early. We gotta be careful we don't outsmart ourselves.

[TXBRONC]

I agree, TX, which is why I think Denver should get while the gettin's good......


Hey I wont be unhappy if we draft top tier offensive tackle. :beer:

[Scarface]

Chris Williams and Matt Forte would make this a very successful draft.

[Simple Jaded]

Link, you could say that about just about every position.

Well if you're satisfied with the status quo then you won't be disappointed, cause Shanahan will not draft a LT, imo.

But personally, I'm disappointed most years, because I've wanted to draft OLman early in the draft forever. I believe in a dominant offensive line, and this year will be a bit more frustrating since they'll actually have a legitimate chance at getting a LT worth a sht, but they won't.

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to this subject, I hate the Broncos offensive line, I have for years.

They're good at ONE thing, racking up meaningless between the 20's rushing yards......that's it! And they wouldn't even be THAT good at that if they didn't play the Chefs twice a season.

They can't push a shopping cart and they cannot pass protect worth a sht.

I know fans like to pound their chest about the Broncos apparent success in the running game, but it's nothing but Fools Gold......

[dogfish]

I know fans like to pound their chest about the Broncos apparent success in the running game, but it's nothing but Fools Gold......



over the recent years, yes-- but it really was dominant back when we had portis (let alone TD). . . and could easily be again-- with OT and RB being possibly the two strongest positions in this draft, if we grab one of each on the 1st day we could be a REAL running team again. . .

i was initially adamant on a 1st day DT, but i'm now looking at this as at least a 2 year rebuilding project. . . why not draft according to the strengths of this class, revitalize our running game and get a tackle who can help keep cutler healthy? take a big-bodied DT like rubin on the 2nd day, and if we need another we can focus on it next year. . .


oh, and link. . . . you can type the word "shit" here-- you don't have to keep abbreviating it by typing sht. . . . :laugh:


shit shit shit. . . . see?

[mclark]

Chris Williams and Matt Forte would make this a very successful draft.

If Clady is gone, I'd want us to look very hard at Chris Williams, who may be even further along that Clady as a pass blocker at least.

I think Clady or Williams would start at left tackle if we do draft them. I mean, what's the difference between starting a rookie and Harris. Harris didn't get any real playing time last year.

[lex]

If Clady is gone, I'd want us to look very hard at Chris Williams, who may be even further along that Clady as a pass blocker at least.

I think Clady or Williams would start at left tackle if we do draft them. I mean, what's the difference between starting a rookie and Harris. Harris didn't get any real playing time last year.


I feel better about Williams I think than Clady.

[turftoad]

I feel better about Williams I think than Clady.

Me too. Williams has already played with Cutler and was the captian on the team.
Willians is a better pass blocker than Clady but probably not as good of a run blocker. That doesn't mean he can't be. Williams is very athletic for his size.

[mclark]

I feel better about Williams I think than Clady.

I like both of them more than Otah. Otah reminds me of Max Starks.

I think Clady and Williams both sound like terrific technicians, as well as athletes. I'd want to try to draft the more aggressive (mean) of the two.

There is some speculation that KC will take Clady at #5.

[lex]

Me too. Williams has already played with Cutler and was the captian on the team.
Willians is a better pass blocker than Clady but probably not as good of a run blocker. That doesn't mean he can't be. Williams is very athletic for his size.

Wow, people talk about Clady like he is the best pass blocking LT in the draft. I like Williams because of his pass blocking and his mobility. I pulled up some video of Vandy on youtube and liked what I saw of Williams getting to the second level.

[mclark]

Wow, people talk about Clady like he is the best pass blocking LT in the draft. I like Williams because of his pass blocking and his mobility. I pulled up some video of Vandy on youtube and liked what I saw of Williams getting to the second level.

Williams caught everyone's eye at the Combine as well, for his athleticism.

[turftoad]

Wow, people talk about Clady like he is the best pass blocking LT in the draft. I like Williams because of his pass blocking and his mobility. I pulled up some video of Vandy on youtube and liked what I saw of Williams getting to the second level.

Williams just needs to add some bulk (muscle) to be a little more powerful run blocker. Says he's got the frame to add it without losing mobility.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

For the Broncos it's not even a debate. The real question is "Who?" as far as offensive tackle goes. I don't expect Clady to be at #12, so Williams is probably the likely pick - but if they trade down, Otah or Baker obviously become targets.

[turftoad]

Some of the new mocks have Williams and Otah going before Clady.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Some of the new mocks have Williams and Otah going before Clady.

It's quite possible. Williams had a hell of a workout and played very well his senior year. I don't think he's going in the top ten, but that's just my opinion. Keep in mind, most of these mocks are coming from big forums such as Football's Future where half of those kids copy people like Scott Wright and don't know half of the players available in the draft.

If it were Kiper, Mayock, Wright, etc. predicting that - I'd put stock into it. Not some 13 year old copying their drafts and mixing up the slots a bit. Unless, you're referring to those professionals - but I'm not sure I've seen Williams anywhere in the top ten from any of those cats.

[mclark]

Clady apparently had a "VERY IMPRESSIVE" pro day workout and had many scouts singing his praise.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Clady apparently had a "VERY IMPRESSIVE" pro day workout and had many scouts singing his praise.

Yeah, he went bonkers. I'd be happy with Clady or Williams at #12, but I'm a proponent of the trade down. Then again, I have some reserves with bringing in a tackle that early because (A) will he play right away and (B) that negates Harris really getting any playing time because Harris is a finesse pass blocking LT, and not a right tackle; however he could move to LG if need be.

Then again, they might feel confident that one year of technique work and bench warming might have helped Harris' struggles against the run, but we'll see. I'd give anything to make sure Erik Pears isn't a starter on opening day, perhaps even my first born.

[mclark]

Yeah, he went bonkers. I'd be happy with Clady or Williams at #12, but I'm a proponent of the trade down. Then again, I have some reserves with bringing in a tackle that early because (A) will he play right away and (B) that negates Harris really getting any playing time because Harris is a finesse pass blocking LT, and not a right tackle; however he could move to LG if need be.

Then again, they might feel confident that one year of technique work and bench warming might have helped Harris' struggles against the run, but we'll see. I'd give anything to make sure Erik Pears isn't a starter on opening day, perhaps even my first born.

I'd love to have both Harris and Pears as backups next year. To do that we'd need a free agent right tackle and a #12 draft pick at offensive tackle who steps right in and starts.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I'd love to have both Harris and Pears as backups next year. To do that we'd need a free agent right tackle and a #12 draft pick at offensive tackle who steps right in and starts.

We could go OT in the 1st or 2nd round and then get Zuttah on the 2nd day.

Zuttah can play guard as well.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Shane Olivea (ex-Chargers) said the Broncos were interested in him, and he could do that RT spot, but I'm wondering what kind of cost he'd be to the team. Wouldn't be a bad option of the price is right.

[turftoad]

I'd love to have both Harris and Pears as backups next year. To do that we'd need a free agent right tackle and a #12 draft pick at offensive tackle who steps right in and starts.

I think Kuper could move to either tackle spot and do very well.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Shane Olivea (ex-Chargers) said the Broncos were interested in him, and he could do that RT spot, but I'm wondering what kind of cost he'd be to the team. Wouldn't be a bad option of the price is right.

His back injuries are probably what are hurting him from being signed right now, but he is very young and at least a decent option as a back up. I don't really like having guys with a RT label only label, I like guys who are versatile, but I wouldn't be upset if Olivea came in.

[mclark]

We could go OT in the 1st or 2nd round and then get Zuttah on the 2nd day.

Zuttah can play guard as well.

That's a possibility.

[turftoad]

It's quite possible. Williams had a hell of a workout and played very well his senior year. I don't think he's going in the top ten, but that's just my opinion. Keep in mind, most of these mocks are coming from big forums such as Football's Future where half of those kids copy people like Scott Wright and don't know half of the players available in the draft.

If it were Kiper, Mayock, Wright, etc. predicting that - I'd put stock into it. Not some 13 year old copying their drafts and mixing up the slots a bit. Unless, you're referring to those professionals - but I'm not sure I've seen Williams anywhere in the top ten from any of those cats.

Nah... I don't pay any attention to those average draft spots on any draft forums.
I have a feeling this years draft is going to be a free for all. The big board won't mean much once the big boys get in the war room come draft day.

[dogfish]

Nah... I don't pay any attention to those average draft spots on any draft forums.
I have a feeling this years draft is going to be a free for all. The big board won't mean much once the big boys get in the war room come draft day.

maybe it's just me, but i do think that there seems to be more uncertainty at the top than usual. . . .

[Retired_Member_001]

Shane Olivea (ex-Chargers) said the Broncos were interested in him, and he could do that RT spot, but I'm wondering what kind of cost he'd be to the team. Wouldn't be a bad option of the price is right.

Shane Olivea wouldn't actually be a bad pickup. He is definitely a big upgrade over Erik Pears. I think Shanahan would be willing to go for him as long as Shane Olivea doesn't want TOO much money.

[Scarface]

Clady apparently had a "VERY IMPRESSIVE" pro day workout and had many scouts singing his praise.

I posted a thread that has prospect videos. It's worth checking out Clady's. He was planting dudes into the turf.

[HolyDiver]

I posted a thread that has prospect videos. It's worth checking out Clady's. He was planting dudes into the turf.


You know, as high as Jake Long is expected to go in the draft................top 8.............there is alot of talk about him playing RIGHT Tackle............and possibly struggling at left Tackle against speed rushers....Seems more like he should be a mid to later first round pick if that's the case. I see very few players that are really guaranteed to go top 10........... Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey...............The rest are unpredictable.

[CoachChaz]

Let Clady slide to 12 and I'm happy

[shank]

I posted a thread that has prospect videos. It's worth checking out Clady's. He was planting dudes into the turf.

i watched that, and his video was the one that impressed me most. he was definitely pwning guys left and right in that video, unlike the other LT videos.

[Joel]

This is our best draft position in a decade, and we need to make it count on Day One. The only way I could justify not keeping the #12 pick would be something like trading the Jets or the Dolphins our first and second round picks for their first and third round picks (i.e. we switch in the first, they get two in the second, and we get two in the third). Heck, I saw Foxworth was looking at the Jets, maybe we could work out a trade that makes everyone happy.

Point being, this is our Best Shot at Best Available Athlete. For all the assaults on "the Mastermind", I've no clue how we got guys like Marshall, Cutler and Williams with the drafts we've had. Or Wilson, for that matter; we got him after winning back to back Super Bowls. For at least the first round or two, we MUST make these picks count, because we won't have any nearly as good for a while (unless we PLAN on sucking for a while? 'Cos if we wanna go into rebuild mode for a couple years, I'm cool with that, but we should commit early.... ;)) Now, after that, if someone wants to jockey for Day Two position, sure, let's talk, 'cos there's still guys we need.

I don't know what's out there, but my priorities have been MLB (to play Sam a few years... ) and NT for over two years, and the retirement of Wilson and Burns plus the departure of Warren, Kennedy, Myers and Veal didn't change that assessment. Neither did a run D that had us even with folks like the Jets and Dolphins; maybe we SHOULD talk trade with them.

But not just to trade. If we need pieces we should pursue them exclusively; if we need the whole puzzle we should take as much as we can. We don't need the whole puzzle, but we do need a number of large pieces, so we should target them, but not miss out on bargains in the other areas we want. And we should do it while we've got the picks to do it; lots of fifth round "value" won't get us from 7-9 to 17-2. Grab a couple Pro Bowlers, then start looking at position vs. picks. That puts us in shape for a run in two or three years, 'cos I don't think we'll be ready next year, just good enough to maybe get a wild card and draft in the high teens.

[TXBRONC]

maybe it's just me, but i do think that there seems to be more uncertainty at the top than usual. . . .


It does seem that way. Guys like Mike Mayock keep saying there isn't a consensus number one pick.