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View Full Version : Size matters as Broncos revamp defense



BOSSHOGG30
03-07-2008, 09:53 AM
With the signings of Boss Bailey and Niko Koutouvides added with DJ apparently moving to WLB we will have one of the biggest, and most athletic LB groups in the league. These 3 range in height from 6'1" to 6'3" and in weight from 235 to 242.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8483244

MHCBill
03-07-2008, 09:58 AM
Thank God... I've been hoping for this since the end of last season.

Now if the front office can take a look at my sig and finish off the dline as I have asked I will be much happier.

It was soooooo obvious that we needed more size and physical strength in our front seven.

The revamped linebacking corps has started to take shape in this mold and I hope it continues by drafting Lofton in round two.

Mike
03-07-2008, 09:59 AM
I read it and, with Bailey at SLB and DJ going back to WLB, I couldn't help but wonder if this meant Denver was going to draft a MLB now.

MHCBill
03-07-2008, 10:05 AM
Lofton hopefully...

Let him compete with KO at training camp and may the best man win the job for this year.

Next year it will be Lofton's imo.

Either way it helps the special teams as well. We need to draft a MLB this year.

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 10:07 AM
Thank God... I've been hoping for this since the end of last season.

Now if the front office can take a look at my sig and finish off the dline as I have asked I will be much happier.

It was soooooo obvious that we needed more size and physical strength in our front seven.

The revamped linebacking corps has started to take shape in this mold and I hope it continues by drafting Lofton in round two.

We can give our 1st round pick away, draft Trevor Laws in the 2nd and I would still be happy at where we're at Defensively...................Give me Jamie Silva and Tom Zbikowski int the 4th, and we are in pretty good shape...................Now, what to do with that 1st round pick.

BeefStew25
03-07-2008, 10:08 AM
Can we wait a year and get Magulaiachiga from USC?

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 10:09 AM
I read it and, with Bailey at SLB and DJ going back to WLB, I couldn't help but wonder if this meant Denver was going to draft a MLB now.


Lofton? ...............Well, trade back in the 1st round picking up an additional 2nd round pick, and we have Laws and Lofton both.......Without even using a #1 pick.

underrated29
03-07-2008, 10:09 AM
I guess 950 the fan thinks that kouti is very similiar to mike vrable. They think that he hadnt gotten a chance to develop behind lofa but his skills and talent when polished should be that of vrable.

So drafting a mike is still a good idea, but if he is as good as they think he is then it can give us a little lee way in the draft also.

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 10:11 AM
Can we wait a year and get Magulaiachiga from USC?

I really think that guy will be another Seau.

BOSSHOGG30
03-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Mayo or Lofton would be nice additions, but I think the Broncos are high on Kootie because he was stuck be a Pro Bowl MLB in Seattle and they must see something in him they like.

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 10:18 AM
Mayo or Lofton would be nice additions, but I think the Broncos are high on Kootie because he was stuck be a Pro Bowl MLB in Seattle and they must see something in him they like.

I think so too. Let's face it, just having Bates out of there will make a huge difference.

BeefStew25
03-07-2008, 10:20 AM
I really think that guy will be another Seau.

I saw him play a good amount this year. I don't know where is he going to be slotted next year, but he has talent and instinct.

Like DJ Wiliams, but with a brain.

Mike
03-07-2008, 10:20 AM
I think so too. Let's face it, just having Bates out of there will make a huge difference.

A lot of people thought that about Coyer too. Not defending Bates...just saying. Not much you can do with scrubs in the trenches...where games are won and lost.

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 10:24 AM
A lot of people thought that about Coyer too. Not defending Bates...just saying. Not much you can do with scrubs in the trenches...where games are won and lost.

We really had better D-limemen in 2007 than in 2006 with Coyer...................Bates has no excuses to me.

MHCBill
03-07-2008, 10:25 AM
Bates gone will be addition by subtraction, but it looks like the coaches got one thing finally right.

DJ should be our WILL. He should make some pro-bowls at that position.

KO could be a great signing if he can perform at MLB. If not, he'll make a solid back-up and an excellent special-teamer.

I still think we need to snag Lofton if he's there in round two. He's a stud tackler. Exactly what we need in the middle.

I'm a little excited about this linebacking corps. Much better than last year's edition.

Malunga would be nice, but who knows how that will all play out.

Fan in Exile
03-07-2008, 10:25 AM
As long as we are rebuilding anyway, I'm happy to see what he's got for a year and if Kootie doesn't pan out then draft a guy next year. Ideally I would like to see us trade back pick up a stud RT like Cherilius or Otah depending on how far back we go, get a high motor guy like Laws, and draft Bennet to compete for the number two.

I really don't see a need to add a LB until next year when we've seen how these guys play together.

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Can we wait a year and get Magulaiachiga from USC?


You mean Maualuga? ...............He would have been a top 10 pick if he had come out this year.

CoachChaz
03-07-2008, 10:28 AM
I think Niko will be fine at MLB. No one on our current roster could crack a starting job as an LB in Seattle right now, so I don't put too much weight into the fact he was a backup there.

BOSSHOGG30
03-07-2008, 10:31 AM
I would much rather get a MLB in the 2nd round of this draft and focus next years draft at safety. Just like this year is the year for Runningbacks... next year is about as talented at safety. It would be nice to get a top MLB prospect like Mayo or Lofton in the 2nd and then next year get a stud safety in the 1st or 2nd.

Mike
03-07-2008, 10:32 AM
We really had better D-limemen in 2007 than in 2006 with Coyer...................Bates has no excuses to me.

We had specialist DE's. Not great all-around talent, specialists. We had rooks in the middle learning (so they deserve a pass), but the rest were scrubs. The scheme Bates was running certainly didn't fit what talent was there, which is against Bates...caoches should adapt, improvise, overcome...but still the talent that was there was lacking.

I am glad Bates is gone. But you can only do so much if the talent isn't there. And the talent hasn't been there for a long time in Denver.

MHCBill
03-07-2008, 10:52 AM
I would much rather get a MLB in the 2nd round of this draft and focus next years draft at safety. Just like this year is the year for Runningbacks... next year is about as talented at safety. It would be nice to get a top MLB prospect like Mayo or Lofton in the 2nd and then next year get a stud safety in the 1st or 2nd.
Man I hope that happens.

Draft Stewart... then Lofton/Mayo.

OL,S,DT for the rest of this year's draft.

If the draft plays out like that this year I really think we are on the brink of a very, very good team.

JONtheBRONCO
03-07-2008, 11:29 AM
With the signings of Boss Bailey and Niko Koutouvides added with DJ apparently moving to WLB we will have one of the biggest, and most athletic LB groups in the league. These 3 range in height from 6'1" to 6'3" and in weight from 235 to 242.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8483244

That article got me pumped for next seasons group of linebackers. I'm excited now. The Seahawks coach sounded very fond of him. People read this article. I won't be a homer here, and say we have a "great" group of linebackers, but the potential is there for sure.

With the chance of signing McCree, you have got to think Shanny is looking at safety next year (with such a deep class). What does that leave? O-line, dline, and hey... maybe RB!

JONtheBRONCO
03-07-2008, 11:31 AM
F-it, draft friggin Stewart or Mendenhall...

topscribe
03-07-2008, 12:04 PM
I read it and, with Bailey at SLB and DJ going back to WLB, I couldn't help but wonder if this meant Denver was going to draft a MLB now.

Not many of us have heard much of Koutouvides. Therefore, many of us have
still viewed MLB as a hole. However, the contract they signed with him does
not necessarily look like a backup's contract. Moreover, Koutouvides' coach at
Seattle said Koutouvides is ready to start, and that he would make a good
one.

That happens often when a player is too good to sit on the bench; he moves
on. I think maybe the FO of the Broncos hopes this is the case. So do I.

-----

Mike
03-07-2008, 12:06 PM
Not many of us have heard much of Koutouvides. Therefore, many of us have
still viewed MLB as a hole. However, the contract they signed with him does
not necessarily look like a backup's contract. Moreover, Koutouvides' coach at
Seattle said Koutouvides is ready to start, and that he would make a good
one.

That happens often when a player is too good to sit on the bench; he moves
on. I think maybe the FO of the Broncos hopes this is the case. So do I.

-----

So do I.

topscribe
03-07-2008, 12:08 PM
Man I hope that happens.

Draft Stewart... then Lofton/Mayo.

OL,S,DT for the rest of this year's draft.

If the draft plays out like that this year I really think we are on the brink of a very, very good team.

Some people are not very fond of Shanny right now, but I have observed one
thing about him: His teams historically have not sunk very low, and they have
not stayed down for long.

The signings of Koutouvides and Boss are the first signs of the awakening
of a giant who went to sleep last year . . .

-----

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 12:13 PM
We are one good Saftey and one more good DT away from having a good Defense. This draft should be a fun one to watch.

xzn
03-07-2008, 12:24 PM
Maualuga would have been top ten this year, he'll be top five next year. But James Laurenitis will also be coming out.

I don't disagree about next draft being a great safety draft. But, at least at the top, it looks like an incredible MLB draft as well.

Seems to me like spending a second round pick on a MLB would be a wasted pick. Let KO have a crack at it and if he can't hack it try to get James or Ray next year...

MHCBill
03-07-2008, 12:56 PM
I hearz what you be sayin' xzn, but I hate targeting a guy or two for next year.

Sure, it would be a wise draft philosophy to look at areas of depth for the following year, but I would never make a current draft selection based on a certain player for next year.

Get Lofton/Mayo if they're there and we don't have to worry about it next year.

If those two are gone, I think we'll really need to look at OT/DT instead with our #2.

No matter what... DRAFT JOHNATHAN STEWART at #12!!!

topscribe
03-07-2008, 01:31 PM
We are one good Saftey and one more good DT away from having a good Defense. This draft should be a fun one to watch.

I would like to see a good DT added to the squad. The draft experts here
don't seem to think #12 is a good place for DTs, so I wouldn't mind seeing
the Broncos trade down, if they can, pick up a 3rd, and get a DT with a
later first or something.

I know that's easier said than done, but that's a nice scenario, IMO.


I guess that seems a bit off topic, but adding those LBs helped to make
such a scene more viable, methinks.

-----

fcspikeit
03-07-2008, 02:49 PM
I would like to see a good DT added to the squad. The draft experts here
don't seem to think #12 is a good place for DTs, so I would mind seeing the
Broncos trade down, if they can, pick up a 3rd, and get a DT with a later
first or something.

I know that's easier said than done, but that's a nice scenario, IMO.


I guess that seems a bit off topic, but adding those LBs helped to make
such a scene more viable, methinks.

-----


I agree with you top!

Here's the thing about the DT class this year.. The top 2 are figured to go in the top 7. After that the value seems to be late first and second round. IMO, after that it looks pretty shallow at DT. Projects at best...

If we don't draft a DT in the 1st or 2nd, where does that put us at DT for next year?

We are not addressing the problem in FA, we have just picked up 2 LB's to start for us next year, that being said, why would we draft a LB in the 1st or 2nd round over a DT?

Watchthemiddle
03-07-2008, 02:54 PM
I agree with you top!

Here's the thing about the DT class this year.. The top 2 are figured to go in the top 7. After that the value seems to be late first and second round. IMO, after that it looks pretty shallow at DT. Projects at best...

If we don't draft a DT in the 1st or 2nd, where does that put us at DT for next year?

We are not addressing the problem in FA, we have just picked up 2 LB's to start for us next year, that being said, why would we draft a LB in the 1st or 2nd round over a DT?

So far, the Broncos have addresed one of their needs in FA with the signing of LB's.

I think this is setting up for getting D and O line help in the draft.

fcspikeit
03-07-2008, 03:03 PM
We can give our 1st round pick away, draft Trevor Laws in the 2nd and I would still be happy at where we're at Defensively...................Give me Jamie Silva and Tom Zbikowski int the 4th, and we are in pretty good shape...................Now, what to do with that 1st round pick.

I would be happy with that HD..

The only thing is that most figure Laws will crack the late 1st round, maybe to the 9iners.. I don't think he will be there when we pick in the 2nd. Also, both Zbikowski and Silva improved their stock at the combine.. Zbikowski will probably go in the 3rd...

In a perfect world we could trade back to the 20's, pick up a #2 and 3.

Then we could draft Laws with the late first, and Zbikowski with the 3rd.. we would then also have 2 # 2 to address LB and OT or maybe even RB..

The 12th is worth 1200, the 25th is worth 720, 57th = 330, 89th = 145 = 1195..

The only way I see a team making that trade is if D Mac somehow fell to 12 but you never know?

fcspikeit
03-07-2008, 03:16 PM
So far, the Broncos have addresed one of their needs in FA with the signing of LB's.

I think this is setting up for getting D and O line help in the draft.

Don't forget we aslo addressed WR. Whether we agree with the signing or not, They signed him to compete for the #2 spot. I can't see them going out and drafting a WR 1st or 2nd when we have done nothing at DT & OL..

Of course S is also a need for us.. From the sounds of it Mikey is looking to fill that need in FA too. Assuming he does, that only leaves DT and OT as our primary needs.

It really only makes since to go DT or OL high in the draft..

If we see it as a check list going into the off season, it would have to look something like this,,

1. DT [ ]
2. S [ ] (As of right now this is still a need)
3. OL [ ]
4. LB [Check]
5. WR [Check]
6. K [Late rounds]
7. BPA [ ] (If all other needs are filled, this pushes a RB high in the draft)

Nature Boy
03-07-2008, 03:16 PM
235-242 lbs at the LB position isn't exactly big. Actually small rather. The Broncos have always had the smallest LBs but fastest the last few years with AL, Ian and whomever we had at Sam.

HolyDiver
03-07-2008, 04:18 PM
235-242 lbs at the LB position isn't exactly big. Actually small rather. The Broncos have always had the smallest LBs but fastest the last few years with AL, Ian and whomever we had at Sam.


uh, DJ? .............Rookie year Will..........2nd and 3rd years Sam and last year Mike.

dogfish
03-07-2008, 06:45 PM
i'll take either maualuga or laurinaitis overany of this year's MIKEs. . . and i can't see why people think they'll be out of our range-- this doesn't exactly look to me like a team that's going to be drafting in the 20's!

SmilinAssasSin27
03-07-2008, 06:55 PM
As much as I want Mayo, Goff and Henderson, it looks like we may wait on LB. I really want Ezra Butler w/ 1 of our 4th rounders now. I'd really like to see him be the replacement for Boss in a few years...or a suitable injury replacement.

Astrass
03-07-2008, 08:47 PM
With the signings of Boss Bailey and Niko Koutouvides added with DJ apparently moving to WLB we will have one of the biggest, and most athletic LB groups in the league. These 3 range in height from 6'1" to 6'3" and in weight from 235 to 242.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8483244

WE had the most athletic and fastest LB core in DJ, Wilson and Gold a couple years back. If we can become an improvement to them then I will be very very happy.

TXBRONC
03-07-2008, 08:57 PM
When did the coaching staff decide to switch D.J. back to the weak side? I've been gone the last three weeks and last thing I can remember concerning D.J. is that he might go back to WLB.

dogfish
03-07-2008, 09:03 PM
When did the coaching staff decide to switch D.J. back to the weak side? I've been gone the last three weeks and last thing I can remember concerning D.J. is that he might go back to WLB.

they're planning on playing the new guy from seattle at MIKE, playing boss at SAM and moving dj back to WILL-- there was just a short piece about it in either the post or the rocky last night. . . .


edit: i think the decision was made quite some time ago, though-- PFW reported shortly after the end of the season that the team would look for a new middle linebacker during the offseason, that they wanted more of a traditional MIKE who would attack the LOS aggressively and take on blockers in the hole. . . they think-- quite correctly, IMO-- that dj is at his best when he can play in space and use his speed in pursuit, rather than always having to fight through trash. . .

Jaded
03-07-2008, 09:04 PM
Size matters? Then Trevor Laws and Sedrick Ellis don't make much sense if their LBer's are almost bigger than they are......

TXBRONC
03-07-2008, 09:09 PM
So far, the Broncos have addresed one of their needs in FA with the signing of LB's.

I think this is setting up for getting D and O line help in the draft.

That's the way it looks to me as well.

Nature Boy
03-07-2008, 09:14 PM
uh, DJ? .............Rookie year Will..........2nd and 3rd years Sam and last year Mike.

What's your point? The last few years we had quite a few. Does that mean I have to name them all? NO. But here goes, Bill Romo, Mobley, Spragan, DJ, Webster, off the top. Make you feel all better now? Point is, just about ALL our LBs are under 250lbs. Whomever we had at Sam or any other are relatively small for linebackers.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-07-2008, 09:15 PM
Size matters? Then Trevor Laws and Sedrick Ellis don't make much sense if their LBer's are almost bigger than they are......

Have you seen Ellis lately? His listed weight is like 285 for the season. I think he's closer to 310-315 now. He was noticably larger in the Rose Bowl, Sr Bowl and combine than at the beginning of the season. Agree on laws though. I think he's still sub 300. Ahtyba Rubin of Iowa State is a beast. I'd love for him to be one of our 4th rounders.

TXBRONC
03-07-2008, 09:21 PM
they're planning on playing the new guy from seattle at MIKE, playing boss at SAM and moving dj back to WILL-- there was just a short piece about it in either the post or the rocky last night. . . .


edit: i think the decision was made quite some time ago, though-- PFW reported shortly after the end of the season that the team would look for a new middle linebacker during the offseason, that they wanted more of a traditional MIKE who would attack the LOS aggressively and take on blockers in the hole. . . they think-- quite correctly, IMO-- that dj is at his best when he can play in space and use his speed in pursuit, rather than always having to fight through trash. . .

I hope the two new guys pan out.

dogfish
03-07-2008, 09:26 PM
I hope the two new guys pan out.

me too. . . we'll see. . .

SoCoPoCo
03-07-2008, 09:28 PM
The 12th is worth 1200, the 25th is worth 720, 57th = 330, 89th = 145 = 1195..



FC - if you still have the draft points value chart handy, let me ask the draftniks this: do you see any scenario where a team would be willing to trade up to us at 12 and give up their own #1 next year? It would be sweet if we can find a team who would be desperate enough to get a targeted guy there. Two teams that jump out at me from the bottom 10 are Tennessee at 24 (nowhere near a playoff team in 08, IMHO) or, based on recent events, Green Bay at 30. Tennessee has added a broken down Javon Kearse and an overweight and over rated TE in Crumpler. They've lost some serviceable linemen (Laboy, Odom, Starks). Most mocks I've seen have the Titans going WR in Rd 1 so they may be enticed to jump to 12 and get the one they want rather than sitting and hoping Kelly and Sweed fall to them. With GB, I think they are going to suffer the same fate we did after our HOF'er retired and they will struggle to get to .500 this upcoming season.
I just really like the flexibility having two #1's gives, and sitting at 12 we can use the points to our advantage.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-07-2008, 09:44 PM
#8=1400
#12=1200...difference of 200 pts (mid 3rd round pick)

I still say we jump ahead of NO and Cincy by giving Bmore Foxxy and a 4th in 2009...assuming 1 of the DTs are still there.

dogfish
03-07-2008, 10:13 PM
#8=1400
#12=1200...difference of 200 pts (mid 3rd round pick)

I still say we jump ahead of NO and Cincy by giving Bmore Foxxy and a 4th in 2009...assuming 1 of the DTs are still there.

dorsey in the 1st and an OT in the 2nd. . . . :drool:

broncosfanscott
03-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Size matter on defense: I like it.

With these guys big, hopefully they will be able to do the pushing around in '08. I am glad they are tall because as LB they will have a better chance to reach up and knock some passes.

Lonestar
03-08-2008, 01:45 AM
Size matter on defense: I like it.

With these guys big, hopefully they will be able to do the pushing around in '08. I am glad they are tall because as LB they will have a better chance to reach up and knock some passes.



Well Boss has a huge vertical jump and ran a 4.3. He should be able to knock down or run down passes..

DJ is one of the best athletes to come out of school in many a year.. Now lets get him resigned to a long term contract and quit playing musical linebacker with him..

Let see third loser DC in three years.. wonder what that means?

tubby
03-08-2008, 03:33 AM
What's your point? The last few years we had quite a few. Does that mean I have to name them all? NO. But here goes, Bill Romo, Mobley, Spragan, DJ, Webster, off the top. Make you feel all better now? Point is, just about ALL our LBs are under 250lbs. Whomever we had at Sam or any other are relatively small for linebackers.

We run a 4-3. fyi

My favorite was Sykes. :salute:

Nature Boy
03-08-2008, 03:40 AM
#8=1400
#12=1200...difference of 200 pts (mid 3rd round pick)

I still say we jump ahead of NO and Cincy by giving Bmore Foxxy and a 4th in 2009...assuming 1 of the DTs are still there.

This is assuming that the DT we get will win the starting job on day 1. If not, I think it'd be a waste. Foxy is our 3rd best and the nickel DB.

Nature Boy
03-08-2008, 03:48 AM
We run a 4-3. fyi

My favorite was Sykes. :salute:

For a minute there I thought we were running a 5-4-2. Lynch drops in to be the 4th LB and Bly and Champ are all alone with no help because they are that good.:look:

I was naming Sam LBs only. Sykes too was only 235lbs but pretty tall at 6'2''.
He was only a plug-in player here in Denver; he and Spragan did an outstanding job that year in our patch work defense in of 2003 or 2004? He didn't do much after leaving Denver and is now retired and working for the Buff's recruiting team.

Why was he your favorite? He played at CU?

Dreadnought
03-08-2008, 09:24 AM
The more I think about it the happier I am w/ our signings. We didn't throw piles of money at a bunch of overrated broken down stiffs for starters (for example see Raiders, Oakland :D). Boss and Niko are my kind of gamble; not much downside because not a ton of money involved, and neither one has a rep as a knucklehead. DJ can go back to where he really belongs at WLB, and we can address the lines with LBers reasonably well settled.

Any guarantee this all works? Nope. But there's no guarantees about anything, and these are good calculated risks. Best case says Boss stays healthy and revives his career here, while Niko becomes too valuable to use on ST, which would be a good problem to have. Now lets fix what else we know is broke.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-08-2008, 11:53 AM
This is assuming that the DT we get will win the starting job on day 1. If not, I think it'd be a waste. Foxy is our 3rd best and the nickel DB.

1-If we got Dorsey or Ellis it would be VERY hard for them not to win the job.

2-Foxxy is gone after this year and we are nowhere near the SB. ANYTHING we get for him is gravy. And the coaches have been singing the praises of Paymah lately. He is the FA they will try to resign.

underrated29
03-08-2008, 12:03 PM
SA you are exactley right. Foxworth will be gone and the FO would rather sign paymah. ANd even though i have already said it, and in my sig, i will say again that i think you are right about trading up to 7 r 8 for ellis/dorsey... (i think dorsey falls like branch did last year, but id rather have ellis.) and then if not go RB, and 2nd pick go dt.

broncosfanscott
03-08-2008, 01:00 PM
Well Boss has a huge vertical jump and ran a 4.3. He should be able to knock down or run down passes..

DJ is one of the best athletes to come out of school in many a year.. Now lets get him resigned to a long term contract and quit playing musical linebacker with him..

Let see third loser DC in three years.. wonder what that means?


Yeah, as far as DJ goes, well you can't really excell sometimes when you move around too much. Hopefully we will put him in the spot where he plays the best.

Three DC in as many years doesn't help things either......need some consistency here, please.

fcspikeit
03-08-2008, 02:53 PM
FC - if you still have the draft points value chart handy, let me ask the draftniks this: do you see any scenario where a team would be willing to trade up to us at 12 and give up their own #1 next year?

IMO there are a couple scenario's where this could happen. Almost certainly one of the top 10 picks would have to fall to us at 12 though,, If D Mac fell I could see a few teams coming from the 20's offering next years 1st. Dallas is one that comes to mind. Next years picks don't have the value of this years picks, for one, we don't know for sure where the pick will be located in next years draft. Even if they assigned this years value to next years pick, the 28th pick is worth 660 + 2 + 1320.. IMO the Boys would make that trade.. Knowing that both teams picking after us will more then likely take D Mac..(Car, Chi) We would be their last chance to grab him if he was on the board after pick 11..

IMO, D Mac falling to us is the only way this happens,, All the other top guys who would be worthy of such a trade will be long gone by the time we pick.




It would be sweet if we can find a team who would be desperate enough to get a targeted guy there. Two teams that jump out at me from the bottom 10 are Tennessee at 24 (nowhere near a playoff team in 08, IMHO) or, based on recent events, Green Bay at 30. Tennessee has added a broken down Javon Kearse and an overweight and over rated TE in Crumpler. They've lost some serviceable linemen (Laboy, Odom, Starks). Most mocks I've seen have the Titans going WR in Rd 1 so they may be enticed to jump to 12 and get the one they want rather than sitting and hoping Kelly and Sweed fall to them. With GB, I think they are going to suffer the same fate we did after our HOF'er retired and they will struggle to get to .500 this upcoming season.
I just really like the flexibility having two #1's gives, and sitting at 12 we can use the points to our advantage.

The WR class is for the most part pretty thin in the 1st round. All the top guys have question marks, normaly teams will only trade next years 1st if they see a guy who they feel is a sure fire star... For example, Mayock don't have 1 WR with a first round grade.. Therefore, its hard to think any team would have them valued at 2 1st round picks. There will be WR taken in the first round because of the nead teams have at the position, When teams have a need they will reach on players but I really don't see anyone tradeing away next years 1st on a WR this year...

The Titans 24th pick is worth 740... I could see them making a trade with us to get to 12 but it would be a reach to say the least... Not only picking a WR at 12, but for what they would have to give up to get there.. They would have to have the guy scouted a lot higher then every mock/rating I have seen..

(1st) 740 + (2nd) 340 + (3rd) 150 = 1230. They would have to really like the guy to give up their top 3 picks to get him :D

SmilinAssasSin27
03-08-2008, 03:02 PM
Agreed...noone after the top 8 is gonna be worth a future #1. even if McFadden does drop, some team who wants him will make their move way before #12.

Nature Boy
03-08-2008, 04:16 PM
McFadden will be a bust.

Hoshdude7
03-08-2008, 04:33 PM
McFadden will be a bust.

I believe the same thing.

fcspikeit
03-08-2008, 05:42 PM
I believe the same thing.

IMO he wont be as good as some believe him to be.. Bust? I guess that would depend on what you consider a bust.. For most people that depends on where they were taken in the draft. Is Bush a bust? Some would say yes because he was drafted so high... If he would have been taken in the 2nd round no one would consider him a bust.

Hoshdude7
03-08-2008, 05:43 PM
IMO he wont be as good as some believe him to be.. Bust? I guess that would depend on what you consider a bust.. For most people that depends on where they were taken in the draft. Is Bush a bust? Some would say yes because he was drafted so high... If he would have been taken in the 2nd round no one would consider him a bust.

If you do not live up to where you were taken in the draft, then you are a bust.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-08-2008, 05:47 PM
If you do not live up to where you were taken in the draft, then you are a bust.

I disagree with that. If Bush has a solid 8-10 year career and is a definite contributor on a team who consistently makes the playoffs and can be seen as a contender at some point...like Bush already has done in 2006...then I don't see them as a bust even if he was #2 overall.

I don't need him to make the HOF to not be a bust.

SoCoPoCo
03-08-2008, 05:49 PM
"The Titans 24th pick is worth 740... I could see them making a trade with us to get to 12 but it would be a reach to say the least... Not only picking a WR at 12, but for what they would have to give up to get there.. They would have to have the guy scouted a lot higher then every mock/rating I have seen.."

Got it - thanks for the breakdown. What is interesting is that most mocks I've seen have Kelly going as high as 10 to NO or 11 to Buffalo.

Nature Boy
03-08-2008, 06:03 PM
What is pick #12 worth and what is pick #6 worth, then what is pick #44 worth?

dogfish
03-08-2008, 07:10 PM
"The Titans 24th pick is worth 740... I could see them making a trade with us to get to 12 but it would be a reach to say the least... Not only picking a WR at 12, but for what they would have to give up to get there.. They would have to have the guy scouted a lot higher then every mock/rating I have seen.."

Got it - thanks for the breakdown. What is interesting is that most mocks I've seen have Kelly going as high as 10 to NO or 11 to Buffalo.

buffalo is desperate for a big receiver who can beat press coverage and help move the chains-- i think they're going to sign bryant johnson in free agency, but if they don't then kelly or sweed coming off the board at #11 is a very real possibility. . .

shank
03-08-2008, 07:13 PM
What is pick #12 worth and what is pick #6 worth, then what is pick #44 worth?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

Joel
03-12-2008, 08:01 AM
We can give our 1st round pick away, draft Trevor Laws in the 2nd and I would still be happy at where we're at Defensively...................Give me Jamie Silva and Tom Zbikowski int the 4th, and we are in pretty good shape...................Now, what to do with that 1st round pick.
If that's TRULY the case, then I see several options:

1) Draft the top athlete at something else we need, leading candidates being NT and LT,

2) Draft ANOTHER future Pro Bowl Mike to develop as your starting Sam and sub for your starting Mike, whom he'll replace at retirement,

3) Deal the pick for more picks later to someone who NEEDS to be #12,

4) Deal the pick to someone who picks EARLIER and is attempting #3. I'd still like to talk to some teams about swapping firsts and giving them our second for their third, or giving them our first, second and fourth for their first, third and fifth. The nice thing is it still gives both teams three First Day picks:

They trade their choice spot in the first for a good but lesser one in exchange for TWO picks in the next round.

We trade a good first round spot to a great one at the cost of NO second round picks, but make it up with two at the start of the third.

They end up with more good players if the draft grades are all locks, but we have the best single player.