The O-Line & D-Line...

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think most Bronco fans would agree that, above ALL else, these are the areas that Denver has to get back to dominating. I'd say most of us expect that the draft will be used to help bolster these areas as well. Until then, the question is what does the team have RIGHT NOW?


Offensive Line

LT

1. Ryan Harris - 6'5 300 - 22 years old -I know alot of Bronco fans are split on him, and for good reason. Is he the guy who looked like a potential top pick his junior year or is he the guy who played poorly his Senior season? The main question with him is simple: how much did his back surgery help him out? Bronco coaches seem optomistic that his poor senior campaign was a result of injuries instead of a lack of talent. IF he is healthy and IF he can keep his weight up, I think he could be a good, longterm starter.

2. Erik Pears - 25 years old -Another enigma...which is he? The solid OT from 2 years ago and the first part of last year, or did he get exposed as teams got used to him?


Who Wins Out?
- Tough question, but arguably the most important on the team. If Harris is capable, he brings the best combination of skills to the table. I'd give Harris the edge in terms of pass blocking but Pears is the better run blocker. I think, ultimately, the team would like to see Harris win out...but it will be close. The wildcard here is the draft pick. I think the draft will be interesting for the future at this spot. If Ryan Clady is there, it would appear that the team would have to take him, no matter the feelings about Harris/Pears. However, if he is gone, things get intriguing. A selection of Chris Williams would probably be a sign that Denver is not comfortable with the current setup. An intriguing pick, IMO, would be Jeff Otah, if the team thinks Harris/Pears will pan out at LT. Otah would give the team some versatility in that he could project at either OT or even OG.


Right Tackle

1. Erik Pears - Gets the "default" pick here, solely because he played here last season. Solid run blocker, but took a step back towards the later part of the season.

2. Chris Kuper - 6'4 302 - 25 years old - I wasn't surprised by the rumors that Kuper will be tried at OT. With Holland at RG, Nalen and Hamilton returning, plus Chris Myers, you knew something HAD to give. I honestly believe the team hopes that Kuper can step in, compete, and win the RT job. He's got the athleticism to make the move, and he is strong as an ox, so he would seemingly project well at RT. The question is, can he get the footwork down?


Who Wins Out
- Another tough call...and another reason why I would advocate drafting a OL who could move to a couple different spots. Otah gives you a guy who could play RT easily if Kuper/Pears cannot, yet could step in at OG for the longterm as well.


Offensive Guard

1. Ben Hamilton -6'4 285 - 30 years old - Assuming he is back 100%, he is the best technician the team has outside of Nalen. I still think he fits best at C...assuming his health checks out.

2. Montrae Holland - 6'2 322 - 27 years old - Who knew that he would end up be a solid/good starter and probably the lines most consistent performer? If he can repeat last season, then he should be entrenched at the RG spot. He was definitely a pleasant surprise in a down year.

3. Chris Kuper - Assuming that Holland sticks at RG again, Kuper would be first in line at LG if Hamilton can't get it back together. The problem here is that I think Kuper has to fit SOMEWHERE on Denver's front 5...problem is, where?

Who Wins Out
- I combined the OG spots, solely because it's a 3 player race...with Chris Myers possibly in the mix too. If healthy, Hamilton probably nails one spot down, which depending on Kuper's situation, could mean training camp will have Kuper/Holland part 2 or the two learning to play next to each other.


Center

1. Tom Nalen - 6'3 285 - 1 billion years old - If healthy, he's still a good performer...and he has seemingly been playing forever. Healthy is the issue here though.

2. Chris Myers - 6'5 295lbs - 26 years old - I think Myers showed enough at C this past year to merit legitimate consideration to be Nalen's replacement if need be. He adds a little more size, but I think it would help him to continue adding strength.


Who Wins Out
- If healthy, this is Nalen's spot for 1 last year...and you cannot rule out Hamilton if he is healthy. Longterm though, I'm happy with what Myers can bring to the table.


Overall Offensive Line Analysis

- This is a weird group to look at as a whole. I don't think Denver's talent level is the problem here. Talentwise, I think the team is 1 top notch starter away from having a fantastic OL again. Is Ryan Harris THE ANSWER here, or is just a part of the solution? If Harris is the answer, then a guy like Gosder Cherilus could solidify Denver's Oline for years to come. If he is not, then a guy like Clady/Williams/Otah could be it. With Denver's former OL(Lepsis, Hamilton, Nalen) seemingly on the way out, Denver needs to transfer its versatility into stability. Honestly, there are like 25 different potential starting lineups for next seasons OL. The key for the team will be creating that stability that these young OL need.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Defensive Line

Defensive End
1. Elvis Dumervil - 5'11 260 - 24 years old - We all know what he brings...and he should be a staple on this line for the next 10 years. The thing that is scary about his potential is that, he's gotten 21 sacks in his first 2 years...with virtually no help at the other 3 positions in terms of pass rushing.

2. Tim Crowder - 6'4 280 - 22 years old - I think most people in the NFL will be surprised at his potential, if he can stay healthy. There were times, where he would flash outstanding, 2 way potential. Denver's DL would take a HUGE step foward if he can step his game up to the next level.

3. Jarvis Moss - 6'6 265 - 23 years old - I think we were all dissappointed to see him go down, but hopefully, he is back to 100%. I was happy with 2 things about Moss in his limited PT. First was the fact that his run defense was not as bad as first thought. Second was in his ability to run plays down from behind(although, this was not a shock). If he can continue to progress as a pass rusher, then he'll have a bright, bright future.

4. Ebenezar Ekuban - 6'4 280lbs - 31 years old - If he can return to form, he'd be a big help to this group both in the run game and in the passing game. He was Denver's best 2 way DL before he was injured.

5. John Engelberger - 6'4 260lbs - 31 years old - Who knows how he makes some of the plays he does, but I think slippery is the best word to describe his play. As a starter, he's not good...as a 4th or 5th DE, he's fantastic.

Who Wins Out
- Honestly, I don't even care. 1-5, Denver has a TON of talent. Think about it, we know exactly what Dumervil and Engelberger bring to the table. If Ekuban can return to health, he adds alot to this group. Moss and Crowder have the potential to push this group from solid, to one of the top units in the NFL.


Defensive Tackle

1. Marcus Thomas - 6'3 315 - 22 years old - Obviously, I'm going with the assumption that he is cleared of his current legal issues. Although he was largely, and hotly debated for most of last year, I doubt many would argue the fact that he holds a BIG KEY in terms of Denver's line play in the upcoming year. He's Denver's top combination of size/athleticism and has the potential to be a rare DT that can both stop the run and rush the passer.

2. Alvin McKinley - 6'3 297 - 29 years old - A nice addition to the line as he can make his share of plays. However, I think of him in the same boat as Engelberger. He's nice to have, but you know you are hurting if he is starting.

3. Josh Mallard - 6'2 260 - 28 years old - I love this guy...he had no business playing as well as he did, but...he did. As a 3rd DT, he'd be below, below average. As a 5th DT, I like him.

4. Kenny Patterson, Antwon Burton, Steven Harris - All guys I'd consider carrying as 5th DTs...not in the regular rotation.

Who Wins Out
- Hopefully, the Thomas situation plays out and things are ok...I think the DT position is very similar to the OL. Denver has some potential, but it's missing 1 piece. I think MT can become a good starting DT, and McKinley could be a good 3rd DT....the question is, who is the other starter?


Overall Defensive Line Analysis

- There are definitely some similarities in Denver's OL and DL. Just like the OL, I think the DL could be just 1 really good starter away from having a good to even great DL. If, through the draft or through a trade, Denver can find a DT, it would be in good shape. The DEs have standout potential...and even have some candidates to move to DT on pass rushing downs(Ekuban and Crowder). I think, as a whole, that the team truly is 1 good DT away from having one of the more talented lines in the NFL with the potential to dominate games.

[dogfish]

I think most Bronco fans would agree that, above ALL else, these are the areas that Denver has to get back to dominating.

agreed completely, 100%. . .



I'd say most of us expect that the draft will be used to help bolster these areas as well.

i HOPE that we will, but what i EXPECT is that we'll spend our 1st day picks on skill position players (probably WR and safety), and try to get by with day two projects and afterthoughts on the lines, or maybe a few UDFAs and street free agents. . . that's mostly been shanahan's MO the past decade, and with the abberation of 2007 past, i haven't seen any real reason to believe that things will be any different going forward. . .



Until then, the question is what does the team have RIGHT NOW?

one very promising youngster in kuper, one completely unknown commodity in harris (i'm not holding my breath)-- everyone else is either an old guy or a warm body. . .

[TXBRONC]

agreed completely, 100%. . .




i HOPE that we will, but what i EXPECT is that we'll spend our 1st day picks on skill position players (probably WR and safety), and try to get by with day two projects and afterthoughts on the lines, or maybe a few UDFAs and street free agents. . . that's mostly been shanahan's MO the past decade, and with the abberation of 2007 past, i haven't seen any real reason to believe that things will be any different going forward. . .




one very promising youngster in kuper, one completely unknown commodity in harris (i'm not holding my breath)-- everyone else is either an old guy or a warm body. . .


I don't know DF. I think Shanahan realize he has upgrade his defensive line. Him not going after Shaun Rogers or Robertson might be an indicator that he's going to use the draft improve lines.

In my opinion if Shanahan stays put with 12th pick there is very good chance he will select and interior lineman. If he moves down there is more of chance of him going have a skill position player.

[xzn]

Boss, thanks for taking the time to make a very detailed and thoughtful post.

I am reading a lot of fans thinking similarly about the need to take linemen early in this draft.

Personally, I like Clady but not that much more than Williams or even Baker. For that reason I would like to explore trading back 5 - 10 spots and picking up an early to mid third. Then we could still get either Williams or Baker in the first.

There are three good prospects in the second round: Laws, Sims and Bryant. Now none of these guys are close to Dorsey or Ellis but they are from major conferences and have a lot of experience and good triangle numbers and production to extrapolate that they could handle starting in the NFL.

The extra pick in the third could net us a legitimate WR like Crawford or Bennett who would compete with Colbert to start now and in the future.

I see several decent safety prospects in the 4thround area. Guys like Zibikowski, Woodyard and Steltz. Since we have three 4th round picks we could strafe-bomb that need and grab two guys. I think we need it.

[Hawgdriver]

Defensive Line

Defensive End
3. Jarvis Moss - 6'6 265 - 23 years old - I think we were all dissappointed to see him go down, but hopefully, he is back to 100%. I was happy with 2 things about Moss in his limited PT. First was the fact that his run defense was not as bad as first thought. Second was in his ability to run plays down from behind(although, this was not a shock). If he can continue to progress as a pass rusher, then he'll have a bright, bright future.

Defensive Tackle

1. Marcus Thomas - 6'3 315 - 22 years old - Obviously, I'm going with the assumption that he is cleared of his current legal issues. Although he was largely, and hotly debated for most of last year, I doubt many would argue the fact that he holds a BIG KEY in terms of Denver's line play in the upcoming year. He's Denver's top combination of size/athleticism and has the potential to be a rare DT that can both stop the run and rush the passer.


Thanks for the great post. Great writing. Simple, clear, concise. Precise. I appreciate that.

Two thoughts. The first thought is that Jarvis Moss is something of a catalyst. If his maturity is where it needs to be as an NFL player, I think he can ascend in this league. He is the prototypical 'chip on the shoulder' player. His history, including last year, leads me to believe that he'll come on strong this coming year. But the question is 'has he matured enough?' If he has processed last year and put it into the right perspective, instead of settling into the role of a set-for-life kid with no need to prove himself as a lifetime achiever, then he might coast his way into oblivion. On the other hand, if that chip drives him to achievement, he'll be a force beyond our expectations.

Second thought: I am troubled by Marcus Thomas' association with his old crowd. He had given his word that he was cutting ties to his old cronies. He broke his word. That sign of a lack of integrity makes me question his commitment to the team. I don't think we can count on him. However, it may have been bad luck. But as they say, burned once...burned twice...you know where this goes.

I am optimistic about our bookends and O-line. I don't think DT will be solved any time soon, and I think our D will suffer again this coming year in the middle. Not a happy place to be right now. But this we knew.

Thanks again for the wrap.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

This post came from a dude on the Mane named Kaylore in a discussion about the prospects of Jake Scott being signed. I have no idea what, if any, inside info he may or may not have, but the folks over there seem to hang onto his every word. So for what it's worth...

Here's the lowdown: The staff has told Kuper that he can be a Bronco as long as he wants. They also told him recently that he wants to give Kuper a shot at playing left tackle this year and right now that's their intention. And since it's been mentioned, I know it wasn't their intention he play right tackle, though I suppose he could if they needed him to.

Now that said, we can extrapolate some things. We know that it doesn't mean he's necessarily going to start. They are going to make it a competition just like any position. We also know the staff has never started a rookie offensive lineman and they generally don't like drafting one on the first day. So the point is that we could draft a rookie tackle, but like Harris he probably wouldn't do more than special teams work the first year which would leave Kuper or whoever to bounce outside.

When you consider that the staff is looking at brining in free agent guards and not tackles, this really does make sense. It also points to a different draft selection then what everybody anticipates - which again is par for the course for the Broncos.

[underrated29]

Ya, we know kaylor and socal and white wabbit. They are all good sources for info,a nd seem to usually be spot on with their findings. You will see kay and socals training camp updates as they are religious on it.

Good post. Leads me to believe that Jstew is our guy! Yes!

[gobroncsnv]

I know that we need to keep Jay alive past his 3rd year in the league, but I'm not nearly as concerned about oline as d. Last year, our biggest oline problems were injuries, and Lepsis playing perhaps a year longer than he should have. We do have some options as were VERY well discussed above. But given a choice, I'd still put most effort into finding the absolute best possible DT we can. The second DT (if Thomas stays clean) will be a MAJOR improvement to help out who we currently have, and has to be priority 1.
Once again, Boss, major kudos... You're better than what we see in the papers. Even though that's not much of a compliment, I mean it as one.

[TXBRONC]

This post came from a dude on the Mane named Kaylore in a discussion about the prospects of Jake Scott being signed. I have no idea what, if any, inside info he may or may not have, but the folks over there seem to hang onto his every word. So for what it's worth...

Here's the lowdown: The staff has told Kuper that he can be a Bronco as long as he wants. They also told him recently that he wants to give Kuper a shot at playing left tackle this year and right now that's their intention. And since it's been mentioned, I know it wasn't their intention he play right tackle, though I suppose he could if they needed him to.

Now that said, we can extrapolate some things. We know that it doesn't mean he's necessarily going to start. They are going to make it a competition just like any position. We also know the staff has never started a rookie offensive lineman and they generally don't like drafting one on the first day. So the point is that we could draft a rookie tackle, but like Harris he probably wouldn't do more than special teams work the first year which would leave Kuper or whoever to bounce outside.

When you consider that the staff is looking at brining in free agent guards and not tackles, this really does make sense. It also points to a different draft selection then what everybody anticipates - which again is par for the course for the Broncos.


Kaylore usually has very good insight into what the Broncos are doing.

[HammeredOut]

Broncos need to get themselves another DE at the draft. Dummerville is really a change up type of player. If Dummerville can get behind another top end DE and sub in, This D-Line would look like a world of difference.

Im not sure which DE will be available, Id go with Darrick Harvey and himself and Moss do there thing. These players should evolve into elite pass-rushers that will get you 10 sacks a season. If this team has any chance of beating NE or Indy, then it needs to start at the Line. The O-Line from either team is so strong that it takes top end drafting and fresh legs from that particular position to make some pressure. What was the thing that Indy and NE had this season in the pocket, and we will always see them in the playoffs, its Time. To much time in the pocket for these QBs and they are the best in the game when they have alot of it.

[dogfish]

Broncos need to get themselves another DE at the draft. Dummerville is really a change up type of player. If Dummerville can get behind another top end DE and sub in, This D-Line would look like a world of difference.

Im not sure which DE will be available, Id go with Darrick Harvey and himself and Moss do there thing. These players should evolve into elite pass-rushers that will get you 10 sacks a season. If this team has any chance of beating NE or Indy, then it needs to start at the Line. The O-Line from either team is so strong that it takes top end drafting and fresh legs from that particular position to make some pressure. What was the thing that Indy and NE had this season in the pocket, and we will always see them in the playoffs, its Time. To much time in the pocket for these QBs and they are the best in the game when they have alot of it.


only one flaw with that strategy-- you're talking about building a team to beat indy and new england, when we can't beat the detroit lions. . . .



:lol: :lol:



we should probably worry about putting together a team that can get above .500 before we think about the super bowl. . . . and when you have the worst run defense in the league and can't protect your own quarterback, you're not exactly in position to be making luxury picks. . . people need to stop kidding themsleves, this team is in full-on rebuilding mode and needs more talent at nearly every position-- even shanahan has been forced to abandon that "one player away from the super bowl" mentality. . .

[Davii]

only one flaw with that strategy-- you're talking about building a team to beat indy and new england, when we can't beat the detroit lions. . . .



:lol: :lol:



we should probably worry about putting together a team that can get above .500 before we think about the super bowl. . . . and when you have the worst run defense in the league and can't protect your own quarterback, you're not exactly in position to be making luxury picks. . . people need to stop kidding themsleves, this team is in full-on rebuilding mode and needs more talent at nearly every position-- even shanahan has been forced to abandon that "one player away from the super bowl" mentality. . .


And how bad were the Giants after an 8-8 season, Tiki Barber retired, everyone was questioning Tom Coughlin's ability to lead, and questioned not only Eli Manning's ability to lead, but his ability to play?

We all know the result....

We had a ridiculous amount of injuries on both sides of the ball last year and tried to force our players into a defensive system they weren't comfortable with, or suited for.

While saying we are one win away from the Superbowl is a little ridiculous, it is no more ridiculous than writing the team off and saying "we're in full on rebuild mode".

[HammeredOut]

If you noticed the dial a back situation, and where this team has strengths at. Its not a question of rebuilding from the backfield. QB,RB are about the most important positions on your team besides your defense. The line play from the Broncos this year was horrible. They failed to get pressure, and when they had 8 in the box and other teams knew Lynch couldn't cover the pass, it was a one side of the field wrecking show all season. The reason for such a bad run-defense because this team didn't and hasn't had a dominate interior linemen to steer the run around. Take the Hayneworth example of steering the run around.

This team needs to dominate at the line, and usually those players will not be found in FA until after 13 seasons of play. I am a fan of the NY Giants build from the each side of the line. They were the only team in the NFL to get to Brady and that O-line.

Ya this team may have been beaten down a few games last season, but we lost a number 1 reciever, gained another, and had some growing pains. This team needs better line play to force teams to pass more. The more Balls going to either Bly or Baileys side of the field is this teams strength.