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Denver Native (Carol)
02-03-2010, 11:08 AM
Some good stuff here
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_14314460

It's safe to say that Tony Scheffler and Brandon Marshall are going the way of Jay Cutler. Gone as well are the offensive-coaching staff and the zone-running scheme and probably some of the athletic, undersized offensive line (and Peyton Hillis). This means that since Josh McDaniels arrived in Denver, he's completely stripped apart the formerly second-ranked offense and dropped two young Pro Bowl, franchise-caliber players. So my question: Since we had almost nothing that he wanted, why did Josh McDaniels come to Denver?
-- J Will, Lakewood

J Will - A nicely written query. Liked your setup. Cutler was a big reason why McDaniels sought the Broncos' job. Perhaps, you call this ironic.

As for that second-ranked offense McDaniels inherited, don't forget it finished 16th in scoring. Football games, J Will, are not won between the 20s. I know change, particularly dramatic change, is difficult for anyone to accept. But the Broncos were 24-24 in the three years before McDaniels arrived. They had won one playoff game in the previous 10 years.

Why wouldn't you want change? Granted, McDaniels' first season only continued this disturbing trend of mediocrity. But at least give him a second year.

Mike - We need a QB, and it's not Kyle Orton. The playing-not-to-lose thing is just painful to watch. Broncos fans are so used to seeing the QB scramble out of trouble and make a play downfield. Now we watch Orton go down on a pinky tackle. What's the answer: the draft or free agency? Mike Vick?
-- Dave Leonard, McCook Lake, S.D.

Dave - The answer in 2010 is giving Orton a second year. The key for Orton is staying healthy.

His next step as a quarterback, in my opinion, is doing a better job of staying out of harm's way. This is two consecutive seasons — 2008 with the Bears and 2009 with the Broncos — when he was playing extremely well, only to suffer a significant ankle injury and then not play so well.

To get a better idea of how a bum ankle would affect a quarterback, think what it would do to a baseball pitcher. A pitcher with a bum ankle couldn't pitch. Orton played but he wasn't nearly as effective post-ankle injury.

Mike - I wanted to ask you what the Broncos think about Chris Kuper. Do you predict that he will be back? Will he be back as a starter? I get the feeling that the entire interior of our offensive line will be different. Thanks.
-- Chris, Thornton

Chris - I believe Kuper will be back. Yes, McDaniels wants to strengthen his offensive interior line. And yes, Kuper, as a right guard, is an interior lineman who was drafted by the Broncos in 2006 as a prototype zone blocker. But Kuper is too young, too talented, too competitive, and even as a restricted free agent, too inexpensive to let go. Chris Kupers are simply too difficult to find to let go.

Hey, Mike. I completely understand that Josh McDaniels wants to take control of the team. But do you think getting rid of our Pro Bowl receiver is the smart thing to do?

Neil, Antioch, Calif.

Neil - I choose to report on this question; not answer it. It's my job to deliver this issue from both sides — the reasons why McDaniels will trade Marshall, and reasons why Marshall deserves to stay and get paid.

I will opine that Marshall will be traded. McDaniels' decision to dismiss Marshall from the season's final game, and Marshall's insistence on receiving the type of contract the Broncos don't feel comfortable providing him make his departure certain.

But whether this is smart or not is left to you, our columnists and radio's sports-talk hosts.

With Josh McDaniels' success with quarterbacks, do you see the Broncos drafting Tim Tebow? Could McDaniels develop him to be a starter?
-- Justin, Superior, Wis.

Justin - McDaniels isn't afraid to think outside the box or make decisions that don't sit well with the majority. I'm guessing McDaniels has at least spent time thinking of how he could develop and use Tebow.

But there's no way McDaniels or any other NFL head coach believes Tebow can be an every-down quarterback. A slash, maybe. A wildcat QB, tops. But nothing more.

Larry Walker, when he played right field for the Rockies, had a more compact throwing delivery than Tebow. I think Tebow has enough arm strength, but there are too many other flaws.

Now could McDaniels draft Tebow with, say, a second, fourth-round pick to become a Wildcat QB/small tight end/fullback? He might think about it.

Will the Broncos match any offer for Elvis Dumervil, or might he end up in Miami with Mike Nolan?
-- Everett, Phoenix

Everett - If it gets that far, I'm certain the Broncos will match any offer. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if a deal is worked out before the tender date of March 5.

Besides the fact Dumervil is the league's best pass rusher, McDaniels needs him for his locker room. Publicly and privately, Dumervil is complimentary of McDaniels, just as he was with Shanahan. Dumervil is the type of guy who respects authority. He's McDaniels' kind of guy.

I saw a story that mentioned Peyton Manning called his own plays for much of the AFC championship game, ignoring the plays called by offensive coordinator Tom Moore. Much has been made lately about Josh McDaniels' desire to control all aspects of the Broncos. If Peyton Manning were his QB, do you think Mr. McDaniels would relinquish his offensive control in favor of the hot play caller under center?
-- Gavin, Denver

Gavin - Manning always has the option to audible away from the play called in his headset in favor of another play at the line of scrimmage. When McDaniels was the offensive coordinator in New England, Tom Brady was given the same freedom. It seemed like McDaniels and Brady worked quite well together in 2007, when the Pats broke nearly every offensive record known to NFL men. Given this, I would think McDaniels could figure out how to co-exist with Manning.

Admittedly, I'm a Northwestern University alum, but I think accurate and athletic QB Mike Kafka would be a good fit for the Broncos system. What are the odds that McDaniels would spend a mid- to low-round pick on an underrated Big Ten quarterback? It once worked for his previous employer.
-- Clark, Chicago

Clark - As you're a Wildcat, I'll give you a name — Tim Riley. He's a Sam linebacker who just finished his redshirt freshman season at Northwestern. He's also my nephew. He should be a redshirt freshman special teamer next year, with a chance to get some serious playing time as a sophomore.

Now, where were we? Oh, yes, Kafka. My nephew likes him. Thinks he can play at the next level. I'm not sure he fits with the Broncos, though, because they took Tom Brandstater in the sixth round last year. You're going to take another late-round QB this year? Besides, Brandstater is 6-5, and Kafka is 6-3. In McDaniels' shotgun-heavy offense, advantage Brandstater.

Hey, Mike. Do you know when's the coin toss to see whether the Broncos have the 10th or 11th pick? Thanks.
-- Kyle, Montreal

Kyle - It will be done during the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis, probably in the Feb. 25-27 period. Last year, San Francisco took Michael Crabtree with the No. 10 pick and gave him a $17 million guarantee; Buffalo took Aaron Maybin with the No. 11 choice and gave him a $15 million guarantee. So this is the kind of coin flip where if you win, it costs you roughly $2 million.

Mike - Is the axing of Mike Nolan another rash move by the Boy King, or a really smart way to stock up on more New England driftwood? And do you think the Boy King will cut the old guard Broncos fans next and bring in replacement fans from New England?
-- Dan Nace, St. Louis

Dan, Dan, Dan. You're funny. Harsh, but funny.

No doubt, Nolan's departure enlarged McDaniels' reputation as someone who's difficult to work for. But at the Pro Bowl and Super Bowl events the past week or so, I talked to several writers who covered Nolan at various points in his career. They all described him as a good man, but a micromanaging control freak. McDaniels is also a good man who also appears to be a micromanaging control freak. The difference is, McDaniels, as the head coach, is the only guy who has the right.

So it wasn't going to work. Nolan is now the Dolphins' defensive coordinator. Miami is his seventh team since he became a defensive coordinator for the first time in 1993. In other words, McDaniels isn't the first guy who didn't want to work with Nolan anymore. I don't mean to criticize Nolan, who is an outstanding person, and a good coach. But to put 100 percent blame for his latest breakup on McDaniels is ridiculous.

Cugel
02-03-2010, 12:17 PM
This guy's a flaming idiot. Points proving this in parenthesis:


Some good stuff here
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_14314460

It's safe to say that Tony Scheffler and Brandon Marshall are going the way of Jay Cutler. Gone as well are the offensive-coaching staff and the zone-running scheme and probably some of the athletic, undersized offensive line (and Peyton Hillis). This means that since Josh McDaniels arrived in Denver, he's completely stripped apart the formerly second-ranked offense and dropped two young Pro Bowl, franchise-caliber players. So my question: Since we had almost nothing that he wanted, why did Josh McDaniels come to Denver?
-- J Will, Lakewood

J Will - A nicely written query. Liked your setup. Cutler was a big reason why McDaniels sought the Broncos' job. Perhaps, you call this ironic.

As for that second-ranked offense McDaniels inherited, don't forget it finished 16th in scoring. Football games, J Will, are not won between the 20s. I know change, particularly dramatic change, is difficult for anyone to accept. But the Broncos were 24-24 in the three years before McDaniels arrived. They had won one playoff game in the previous 10 years.

Why wouldn't you want change? Granted, McDaniels' first season only continued this disturbing trend of mediocrity. But at least give him a second year.

[So, going from #16 in scoring in 2008 to #20 in 2009 justifies the decision to destroy the offense? That makes ZERO sense.

The 2008 offense stalled in the red-zone because they didn't have a running game. You need a good running game to score down near the goal-line. It's tough to have a running game when you have 8 RBs on IR and are forced to grab a former NFL player out of a phone-kiosk and make him your starter. Everybody KNEW the Broncos were going to have to THROW to score and played defense accordingly. If McDaniels had kept the 2008 offense and simply added some RBs they wouldn't have been 20th in the league in scoring! They probably would have been better than 16th too and that would have meant a playoff berth.]

Mike - We need a QB, and it's not Kyle Orton. The playing-not-to-lose thing is just painful to watch. Broncos fans are so used to seeing the QB scramble out of trouble and make a play downfield. Now we watch Orton go down on a pinky tackle. What's the answer: the draft or free agency? Mike Vick?
-- Dave Leonard, McCook Lake, S.D.

Dave - The answer in 2010 is giving Orton a second year. The key for Orton is staying healthy.

His next step as a quarterback, in my opinion, is doing a better job of staying out of harm's way. This is two consecutive seasons — 2008 with the Bears and 2009 with the Broncos — when he was playing extremely well, only to suffer a significant ankle injury and then not play so well.

To get a better idea of how a bum ankle would affect a quarterback, think what it would do to a baseball pitcher. A pitcher with a bum ankle couldn't pitch. Orton played but he wasn't nearly as effective post-ankle injury.

[Orton's been in the league for 5 years now and he's NEVER had a good entire season yet, so why would he necessarily be better next year? He's been injured a lot over his career because he's a stiff and can't get out of the way of the pass-rush and he also doesn't have that quick a delivery so he tends to hold onto the ball and take a lot of hits. You can't expect your OL to stand up and keep rushers off him all season. He'll probably be hurt NEXT season too, just like he normally does.

If the Broncos re-sign him they're going to have to commit to him for YEARS to come, and he'll get near Matt Cassel type money: guaranteed $34 million over the next 3 years and averaging about $14 million a season! What happens if he tanks next year or is simply no better and McDaniels is fired (at least a 50-50 bet)? Then the new head coach has a HUGE cap problem for years to come trying to get rid of Orton and having a ton of dead-cap space!]

Hey, Mike. I completely understand that Josh McDaniels wants to take control of the team. But do you think getting rid of our Pro Bowl receiver is the smart thing to do?

Neil, Antioch, Calif.

Neil - I choose to report on this question; not answer it. It's my job to deliver this issue from both sides — the reasons why McDaniels will trade Marshall, and reasons why Marshall deserves to stay and get paid.

But whether this is smart or not is left to you, our columnists and radio's sports-talk hosts.

[It's one thing not to allow editorializing in straight news pieces about sports, but it's just cowardice or stupidity to refuse to answer questions in a mail-bag! The ENTIRE THING is nothing but his opinion! It's NOT a news piece at all! He expressed his "opinion" on every other issue. Why not this one? Because it's "controversial" and he wants to duck the controversy?]

Will the Broncos match any offer for Elvis Dumervil, or might he end up in Miami with Mike Nolan?
-- Everett, Phoenix

Everett - If it gets that far, I'm certain the Broncos will match any offer. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if a deal is worked out before the tender date of March 5.

Besides the fact Dumervil is the league's best pass rusher, McDaniels needs him for his locker room. Publicly and privately, Dumervil is complimentary of McDaniels, just as he was with Shanahan. Dumervil is the type of guy who respects authority. He's McDaniels' kind of guy.

[You'll notice he's not afraid to venture his opinion on this one.]

Mike - Is the axing of Mike Nolan another rash move by the Boy King, or a really smart way to stock up on more New England driftwood? And do you think the Boy King will cut the old guard Broncos fans next and bring in replacement fans from New England?
-- Dan Nace, St. Louis

Dan, Dan, Dan. You're funny. Harsh, but funny.

No doubt, Nolan's departure enlarged McDaniels' reputation as someone who's difficult to work for. But at the Pro Bowl and Super Bowl events the past week or so, I talked to several writers who covered Nolan at various points in his career. They all described him as a good man, but a micromanaging control freak. McDaniels is also a good man who also appears to be a micromanaging control freak. The difference is, McDaniels, as the head coach, is the only guy who has the right.

So it wasn't going to work. Nolan is now the Dolphins' defensive coordinator. Miami is his seventh team since he became a defensive coordinator for the first time in 1993. In other words, McDaniels isn't the first guy who didn't want to work with Nolan anymore. I don't mean to criticize Nolan, who is an outstanding person, and a good coach. But to put 100 percent blame for his latest breakup on McDaniels is ridiculous.

[Coaches who last a long time in the NFL wind up working for a lot of different teams during their career. Head coaches get fired and then their assistants move around. That's just the way it is in the NFL and no reflection on Nolan.

Nolan was fired from the 49ers NOT because he was a bad DC but because he was promoted to head-coach and sucked at it! There's a big difference between coordinator and head coach and plenty of guys who do well at DC don't make good head coaches. Wade Phillips is Exhibit "A". He does well enough as DC to get offered the head-coaching job, then sucks his way out of town. Nolan will be a great DC in Miami just as he has been everywhere else he worked. Will his successor be better? If he isn't (and there's a good chance he won't be because MOST NFL coaches aren't as good, then the Broncos suffer from McDaniels inability to work with people.]

WARHORSE
02-03-2010, 12:17 PM
Football is not won between the 20s....yes.


One only need look at the offensive line of the 97 and 98 years, and watch them drive people off the ball. There was a reason those guys were in commercials.....they were simply awesome, and dont get nearly enough credit for our championship rings. Not to single out only them, McCaffrey and Smith were just as much a part of that run game dominance as well.

I hope during this offseason we address Kuper by signing him, and then adding a beast of a guard and a beast of a center.


Trade Brandon if need be......and gain another high pick. Spurn the flash, bring the SMASH.


Oh Lord take me back.................:pray:

pnbronco
02-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Thanks Carol....:salute:

Some great stuff in the article. I love the way he stated that the game is not won in between the 20's. He had a lot of good points and did it in a very classy way.

pnbronco
02-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Football is not won between the 20s....yes.


One only need look at the offensive line of the 97 and 98 years, and watch them drive people off the ball. There was a reason those guys were in commercials.....they were simply awesome, and dont get nearly enough credit for our championship rings. Not to single out only them, McCaffrey and Smith were just as much a part of that run game dominance as well.

I hope during this offseason we address Kuper by signing him, and then adding a beast of a guard and a beast of a center.


Trade Brandon if need be......and gain another high pick. Spurn the flash, bring the SMASH.


Oh Lord take me back.................:pray:

Zimmerman said something when he was interviewed on "The Fan" when he had come to Denver to promote the Hall of Fame fan voting thing. He said that it's a mental thing that has to be learned to put your hand in the dirt and snort like a bull and give a body language that you will not get past me.

Also I remember years ago when we had Jamie (something) was on the O line, he was ahead of Nalen in the draft that year. Karl told me that Nalen would make it, Jamie probably not. Jamie was too nice and would never be able to pull off the meanie bull attitude. (ok my words)

silkamilkamonico
02-03-2010, 02:02 PM
Finally, some people are realizing the truth. 16th out of 32 teams isn't "great". It's "average".

Games not won between the 20's, fellas, figure it out.

Buff
02-03-2010, 02:14 PM
Mike Klis > Cugel

silkamilkamonico
02-03-2010, 02:26 PM
Mike Klis > Cugel

everybody > Cugel

Cugel leads the way for the "hey, we might not ever win a playoff game, but at least we don't go 3-13", people.

dogfish
02-03-2010, 03:00 PM
why did mcdaniels come to denver?

duh. . . to ruin the broncos, obviously!

HORSEPOWER 56
02-03-2010, 03:07 PM
Because we were the first team to offer him a HC job, not to mention complete control of all football operations (something unheard of for a rookie HC)?

That'd be my guess.

pnbronco
02-03-2010, 03:21 PM
why did mcdaniels come to denver?

duh. . . to ruin the broncos, obviously!

Obviously, it was a evil plan that he and Belichick came up with to ruin one of the few teams that could beat the Pats....:lol:

The sad part is that their are posters that would believe this over his trying to improve our team...:rolleyes:

Lonestar
02-03-2010, 03:26 PM
Good clean thoughts by someone that hs just a little more insight than most of the fans do.

I had not thought about the Doom issue of being great in the locker room.

That may indeed be the part that keeps him a Bronco.

As for Orton how can anyone bitch (my IMAC software changed that to birth until I reread it*) about what he as accomplished being behind a sieve for several years in the NFL.

Give him some time and players to work with and he will do an above average job. Will win a hell of a lot of games for us by NOT being stupid with the ball.

Just as Jake did his last full year. Until the playoff game.

BTW the first time our OLINE was exposed for what is was to small to get yards on the ground and to slow to pick up the blitz.

* so if y'all see strange words in some of my posts that is the main reason.

HORSEPOWER 56
02-03-2010, 03:49 PM
Good clean thoughts by someone that hs just a little more insight than most of the fans do.

I had not thought about the Doom issue of being great in the locker room.

That may indeed be the part that keeps him a Bronco.

As for Orton how can anyone bitch (my IMAC software changed that to birth until I reread it*) about what he as accomplished being behind a sieve for several years in the NFL.

Give him some time and players to work with and he will do an above average job. Will win a hell of a lot of games for us by NOT being stupid with the ball.

Just as Jake did his last full year. Until the playoff game.

BTW the first time our OLINE was exposed for what is was to small to get yards on the ground and to slow to pick up the blitz.

* so if y'all see strange words in some of my posts that is the main reason.

Easy killer, if this was an article condemning McDaniels, you'd be calling this guy a hack and saying "what sources?" and "WTF does he know, does he attend the team meetings?" etc, etc, etc. It's a great article in your opinion because it supports your philosophy and point of view. He doesn't even answer half of the questions he asked by the guys who wrote in.

CoachChaz
02-03-2010, 03:53 PM
Easy killer, if this was an article condemning McDaniels, you'd be calling this guy a hack and saying "what sources?" and "WTF does he know, does he attend the team meetings?" etc, etc, etc. It's a great article in your opinion because it supports your philosophy and point of view. He doesn't even answer half of the questions he asked by the guys who wrote in.

Most of the extremists (on both sides) do the same thing. One group looks into it too much and finds unwritten positives...another group looks into it too much and finds unwritten negatives.

Call out JR for reading into an article...but include arapaho, cugel, clay, etc in your hit list if you do

pnbronco
02-03-2010, 04:12 PM
Easy killer, if this was an article condemning McDaniels, you'd be calling this guy a hack and saying "what sources?" and "WTF does he know, does he attend the team meetings?" etc, etc, etc. It's a great article in your opinion because it supports your philosophy and point of view. He doesn't even answer half of the questions he asked by the guys who wrote in.

Horse, there are those of us who continue to support the team, in spite of how the year ended. Klis shared thoughts that are similar to ours.

That this wasn't a team on the verge of a SB and it was destroyed. That we did lose to the Raiders at home last year with Shanny and it wasn't even close. That we did lose to KC with Shanny when they had not won a game in over or close to a year. IMO you can't have that many changes and not struggle. It was the timing that was surprising, but not the struggle.

Where is see change and rebuilding there are those of you who see failure. I see the past 10 years with Coach Shanny and one season with Coach McD. You have the right to your own thoughts and idea's, but you don't have a right to be nasty to those of us who choose to be positive.

HORSEPOWER 56
02-03-2010, 04:44 PM
Horse, there are those of us who continue to support the team, in spite of how the year ended. Klis shared thoughts that are similar to ours.

That this wasn't a team on the verge of a SB and it was destroyed. That we did lose to the Raiders at home last year with Shanny and it wasn't even close. That we did lose to KC with Shanny when they had not won a game in over or close to a year. IMO you can't have that many changes and not struggle. It was the timing that was surprising, but not the struggle.

Where is see change and rebuilding there are those of you who see failure. I see the past 10 years with Coach Shanny and one season with Coach McD. You have the right to your own thoughts and idea's, but you don't have a right to be nasty to those of us who choose to be positive.


Trust me, I more than understand you guys' point of view, just like I do guys like Clay, Rav, etc. I just find it amazing that if an article supports McDaniels - the writer is a genius and is Pulitzer worthy, but if he doesn't, he's a hack, liar, opinionated retard who doesn't know anything.

JR seems to believe Klis (who most eat alive on these boards on a weekly basis) just "gets it". Unfortunately, Paige, Williamson, Kiszla, and yes even Klis from time to time, or any other writer who has dared be critical of McDaniels is absolutely the worst journalist in the world blah, blah, blah. Strange that only writers that support his views are worth a shit, no matter what the substance of the article is.

I'm just feeling froggy today and entertaining myself by twisting the knife a little. ;)

e-Lou-sive1
02-03-2010, 04:49 PM
It does seem that McD came in to sabotage the team and make unneccessary changes to the point that would make it difficult for a new coach to rebuild in case he's fired.

He eludes direct questions whereby he feels he owes no explanation to the Denver media or fans for his actions.

He picks up Martindale from the Dolphins who were no better than we were during the season not to mention hiring his brother Little Ben.

I have little or no expectations that we will do better this season with the changes that have already manifested and what the future holds for Marshall ,Schefler and Hillis.

I have not heard anything from Orton like I hear from Romo,McNabb,Favre,Rivers and Rothlisberger I wonder If McD enforced a gag order on him not to speak to the media.

"Things to do in Denver when the Broncos are Dead" just kidding anyhthing is possible.

CoachChaz
02-03-2010, 04:53 PM
Trust me, I more than understand you guys' point of view, just like I do guys like Clay, Rav, etc. I just find it amazing that if an article supports McDaniels - the writer is a genius and is Pulitzer worthy, but if he doesn't, he's a hack, liar, opinionated retard who doesn't know anything.

JR seems to believe Klis (who most eat alive on these boards on a weekly basis) just "gets it". Unfortunately, Paige, Williamson, Kiszla, and yes even Klis from time to time, or any other writer who has dared be critical of McDaniels is absolutely the worst journalist in the world blah, blah, blah. Strange that only writers that support his views are worth a shit, no matter what the substance of the article is.

I'm just feeling froggy today and entertaining myself by twisting the knife a little. ;)

Like I said before...your assessment is fair and I admit, I see the same thing from both sides of the house as well. But...if we are going to call out people for siding with guys that agree with their point of view...we have to call out a whole lot of people.

HORSEPOWER 56
02-03-2010, 04:56 PM
It does seem that McD came in to sabotage the team and make unneccessary changes to the point that would make it difficult for a new coach to rebuild in case he's fired.

He eludes direct questions whereby he feels he owes no explanation to the Denver media or fans for his actions.

He picks up Martindale from the Dolphins who were no better than we were during the season not to mention hiring his brother Little Ben.

I have little or no expectations that we will do better this season with the changes that have already manifested and what the future holds for Marshall ,Schefler and Hillis.

I have not heard anything from Orton like I hear from Romo,McNabb,Favre,Rivers and Rothlisberger I wonder If McD enforced a gag order on him not to speak to the media.

"Things to do in Denver when the Broncos are Dead" just kidding anyhthing is possible.

Okay, go back and check on your facts one more time. You're a wee bit off on some of them (for instance we didn't pick up Martindale from Miami, he was already our LBers coach that we promoted to DC - Nolan was allowed to go to Miami to be their DC).

HORSEPOWER 56
02-03-2010, 04:58 PM
Like I said before...your assessment is fair and I admit, I see the same thing from both sides of the house as well. But...if we are going to call out people for siding with guys that agree with their point of view...we have to call out a whole lot of people.

Maybe, or I could just be a dick to JR. :D;)

CoachChaz
02-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Maybe, or I could just be a dick to JR. :D;)

Fair enough...at least you admitted your "knife-twisting" mood. Having admitted that, I figure you have a free pass to continue to be "froggy" today.

One way or another, it's all in fun

Hoser
02-03-2010, 05:09 PM
Cugel... 14 mill a year? I'm pretty sure that would make Orton the NFL's highest paid player :lol: If we sign him for a 3 year deal it is NOT going to cost that much.

spikerman
02-03-2010, 06:44 PM
Football is not won between the 20s....yes.

That's very true. The problem is that the Josh McDaniels' version of the Broncos' offense struggled to even move it between the 20s - much less score once they got there. Football is not won between the 20s, but it's also not won with a sh*tload of 3 and outs.

Here's hoping for some improvement next year.:beer:

Lonestar
02-03-2010, 07:05 PM
Easy killer, if this was an article condemning McDaniels, you'd be calling this guy a hack and saying "what sources?" and "WTF does he know, does he attend the team meetings?" etc, etc, etc. It's a great article in your opinion because it supports your philosophy and point of view. He doesn't even answer half of the questions he asked by the guys who wrote in.


As a general rule I have been less than impressed with most of the DP reporters. He is about mid road there with Jones, Kizla and legwold being the better of the group, and woody, well I think he plays with his woody to much, if you know what I mean. Who is on the opposite end of the "I've got a clue" factor.

So he did not answer all of their questions, there are limits of space in the Newspapers that can be printed. Who knows perhaps the editors took out those answers.

I trust he knows a tad more about DV than most of us here do. While he may not attend team meeting it sounds like he has talked with those that do. UNlike most of our "experts"

He is paid to report the facts as he sees them OR knows from sources.

Did anyone here Know that Doom was a great locker room guy from first hand knowledge? I did not.

Lonestar
02-03-2010, 07:10 PM
Maybe, or I could just be a dick to JR. :D;)


Fair enough...at least you admitted your "knife-twisting" mood. Having admitted that, I figure you have a free pass to continue to be "froggy" today.

One way or another, it's all in fun

Or just being stupid to a MOD, makes sense to me.:D

:frog:

Dean
02-03-2010, 07:42 PM
Finally, some people are realizing the truth. 16th out of 32 teams isn't "great". It's "average".

Games not won between the 20's, fellas, figure it out.

I get so tired of people throwing the stat that the offense was 16th in scoring out there as if it were true. :banghead:

We were 16 in total points scored. That means points by the offense. Points scored by the defense. Points scored by special teams. Our defense and special teams did us no favors. :2thumbsdown:

Last year's offense was sixth in TDs (25) scored behind New Orleans, San Diego, Arizona, Dalas, Green Bay, and Indianapolis. When you combine field goals we were eleventh, I believe. We did that with the worst field position in the league.

Tell me. Were we even average in scoring this year? :confused: I didn't think so.

Ravage!!!
02-03-2010, 08:50 PM
I get so tired of people throwing the stat that the offense was 16th in scoring out there as if it were true. :banghead:

We were 16 in total points scored. That means points by the offense. Points scored by the defense. Points scored by special teams. Our defense and special teams did us no favors. :2thumbsdown:

Last year's offense was sixth in TDs (25) scored behind New Orleans, San Diego, Arizona, Dalas, Green Bay, and Indianapolis. When you combine field goals we were eleventh, I believe. We did that with the worst field position in the league.

Tell me. Were we even average in scoring this year? :confused: I didn't think so.


GREAT points, Dean..... :beer:

Superchop 7
02-03-2010, 08:57 PM
I get so tired of people throwing the stat that the offense was 16th in scoring out there as if it were true. :banghead:

We were 16 in total points scored. That means points by the offense. Points scored by the defense. Points scored by special teams. Our defense and special teams did us no favors. :2thumbsdown:

Last year's offense was sixth in TDs (25) scored behind New Orleans, San Diego, Arizona, Dalas, Green Bay, and Indianapolis. When you combine field goals we were eleventh, I believe. We did that with the worst field position in the league.

Tell me. Were we even average in scoring this year? :confused: I didn't think so.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

:salute:

Superchop 7
02-03-2010, 09:00 PM
If I were McD....

Hey Mike (Nolan), tell me what you need.....

It's yours to run.

Lonestar
02-03-2010, 10:23 PM
If I were McD....

Hey Mike (Nolan), tell me what you need.....

It's yours to run.

Glad we have Josh.:salute:

red98
02-03-2010, 10:38 PM
One only need look at the offensive line of the 97 and 98 years, and watch them drive people off the ball. There was a reason those guys were in commercials.....they were simply awesome, and dont get nearly enough credit for our championship rings. Not to single out only them, McCaffrey and Smith were just as much a part of that run game dominance as well.



Oh Lord take me back.................:pray:


Back then, everybody blocked.

pnbronco
02-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Back then, everybody blocked.

Amen Red, you got that right.


Jrwiz
Did anyone here Know that Doom was a great locker room guy from first hand knowledge? I did not.

I can't say that I have first hand knowledge of this, because I don't go into the locker room. But I will say from my personal interaction with Doom, other D players, seeing him in camp and on the sidelines and watching his interaction with his coaches and Coach McD. I would have been shocked to find out he wasn't a great locker room guy.

Horse that was fair, I understand froggy.

I am the that person that's 51% sweetheart and 49% b****, so as the old saying goes don't push it, when I'm stressed it takes a lot less to push...:D

slim
02-04-2010, 12:30 AM
Amen Red, you got that right.


Jrwiz
Did anyone here Know that Doom was a great locker room guy from first hand knowledge? I did not.

I can't say that I have first hand knowledge of this, because I don't go into the locker room. But I will say from my personal interaction with Doom, other D players, seeing him in camp and on the sidelines and watching his interaction with his coaches and Coach McD. I would have been shocked to find out he wasn't a great locker room guy.

Horse that was fair, I understand froggy.

I am the that person that's 51% sweetheart and 49% b****, so as the old saying goes don't push it, when I'm stressed it takes a lot less to push...:D

You are 99% sweethart 1% sugar...

atwater27
02-04-2010, 01:05 AM
Finally, some people are realizing the truth. 16th out of 32 teams isn't "great". It's "average".

Games not won between the 20's, fellas, figure it out.

Good point! Someone tell McDaniels.

jhildebrand
02-04-2010, 01:46 AM
I simply don't get it. I believe the guy was brought in because he comes from an organization known to not overpay a single penny for their "stars" or any FA's they bring in.

I think Bowlen shuddered to think of the contracts that would be due especially after the open checkbook policy Shanahan had.

I also don't understand why McDaniels is here when, at the end of the season, the offense was completely, 100% inept! I recall a very cocky and brash McDaniels interview with Scott and Al on the Fan all but ridiculing the 2nd ranked offense 11th in offensive scoring and how he would improve it immediately. The fact is every single meaningful offensive stat got worse. Our RZ, as TERRIBLE as it was at 54%, actually got worse to 46%. 46% in the rz is HORRIBLE.

Then to make matters worse, in a fresh young offseason the Kid Coach/GM found it more pertinent and pressing to tinker with the D and "mutually resign" his first hire and DC Mike Nolan. The D was supposed to be a project of 2-3 seasons just to get to respectability! This D looked dang good everywhere but the run D and who knows what a second year under Nolan would do. Somehow, the D needed a new coordinator but the O doesn't? :confused: And if you are still reading this, don't tell me the resignation was mutual!!!

I haven't even got to the issues of McDaniels also being the team GM and the problems that continue to come from that. The player conflicts, the coach conflicts, the ridiculous draft! Let's hope McD really knows why he came here and what he is doing because if he doesn't and Denver turns out to be his Cleveland...well, we all saw how that worked out for Cleveland er The Baltimore Ravens.

atwater27
02-04-2010, 09:25 AM
I simply don't get it. I believe the guy was brought in because he comes from an organization known to not overpay a single penny for their "stars" or any FA's they bring in.

I think Bowlen shuddered to think of the contracts that would be due especially after the open checkbook policy Shanahan had.

I also don't understand why McDaniels is here when, at the end of the season, the offense was completely, 100% inept! I recall a very cocky and brach McDaniels interview with Scott and Al on the Fan all but ridiculing the 2nd ranked offense 11th in offensive scoring and how he would improve it immediately. The fact is every single meaningful offensive stat got worse. Our RZ, as TERRIBLE as it was at 54%, actually got worse to 46%. 46% in the rz in HORRIBLE.

Then to make matters worse, in a fresh young offseason the Kid Coach/GM found it more pertinent and pressing to tinker with the D and "mutually resign" his first hire and DC Mike Nolan. The D was supposed to be a project of 2-3 seasons just to get to respectability! This D looked dang good everywhere but the run D and who knows what a second year under Nolan would do. Somehow, the D needed a new coordinator but the O doesn't? :confused: And if you are still reading this, don't tell me the resignation was mutual!!!

I haven't even got to the issues of McDaniels also being the team GM and the problems that continue to come from that. The player conflicts, the coach conflicts, the ridiculous draft! Let's hope McD really knows why he came here and what he is doing because if he doesn't and Denver turns out to be his Cleveland...well, we all saw how that worked out for Cleveland.

Prepare to be blitzed by the McLovers for that post.

pnbronco
02-04-2010, 10:08 AM
Prepare to be blitzed by the McLovers for that post.

nah....to much on the plate and why. No one is going to change my mind so why try to do that to anyone else. We both believe what we believe. Only time will tell and I'm sure it will be somewhere in between, like most of life is.

All that I ask is that we are respectful of each other, because we are all fans of the same team.....

Dean
02-04-2010, 08:23 PM
I complained about false information and then I offered the same. Oops!

I'll correct it. We were eleventh in TDs with 40 scored by either the offense on the ground or through the air. The original premise still holds but the case is 5 places weaker.

:ahhhhh:

T.K.O.
02-04-2010, 09:40 PM
11th in scoring and we would have made the playoffs....shanny would likely still be the coach....sorry

spikerman
02-04-2010, 09:46 PM
11th in scoring and we would have made the playoffs....shanny would likely still be the coach....sorry

11th in scoring doesn't matter when you have a defense that couldn't stop me and 10 of my friends. Yes, Shanahan ignored the defense, but the offense he assembled was workable. It definitely had some weaknesses, but it was a lot closer to being elite than what we saw on the field last year. I still wish McDaniels had focused on fixing the defense during his first year and tweaked the offense over time instead of blowing it up.

Northman
02-04-2010, 10:00 PM
The game is not won between the 20's.

That happened in 08' and also happened in 09'. Same story, different coach.

Ziggy
02-04-2010, 10:48 PM
The game is not won between the 20's.

That happened in 08' and also happened in 09'. Same story, different coach.

True. Same story, different coach, but same offensive line. What we thought was our strength coming into this season turned out to be a huge problem. While folks wanted to blame Shanny, Cutler, and everyone else, only one factor was in play during both campaigns. Oline exposed? I'd say so. Let's hope that McD is smart enough to change it, before focusing on other parts of the offense. Love or hate McD, it's painfully obvious what needs to be improved the most. Can he figure out what Shanny never did? We'll know by the time opening day rolls around.

dogfish
02-05-2010, 01:33 AM
why did mcdaniels come here?


to rip out clay's heart and piss on it. . . .


:heh:

Northman
02-05-2010, 06:53 AM
True. Same story, different coach, but same offensive line. What we thought was our strength coming into this season turned out to be a huge problem. While folks wanted to blame Shanny, Cutler, and everyone else, only one factor was in play during both campaigns. Oline exposed? I'd say so. Let's hope that McD is smart enough to change it, before focusing on other parts of the offense. Love or hate McD, it's painfully obvious what needs to be improved the most. Can he figure out what Shanny never did? We'll know by the time opening day rolls around.

No doubt about that. But it always cracks me up with these fluff pieces that they are so quick to defend a guy who has yet to really prove anything. Its still a wait and see approach but you get these yahoo's who constantly make excuses for the man. At the end of the day he calls the shots just like he did last year so any failures that transpire falls on his shoulders. Im just fed up with the excuses and its a put up or shut up time for me as far as im concerned. The way i look at it he had his grace period and i expect much much better results this year or i will consider his tenure a failure.

frenchfan
02-05-2010, 08:01 AM
The way i look at it he had his grace period and i expect much much better results this year or i will consider his tenure a failure.Agreed...

I think we shouldn't be blind in one way or another...
There is no reason to put everything on McD... But there is no reason to believe our HC doesn't have made any mistakes...

8-8 this year with the schedule we had is a good result IMO.
But it's also true that being 6-0 and 2-8 is not good indeed. IMO, we should have been 10-6 this year... What pissed me off is that we blew a good (and may be lucky) start...
But think about this... Why our Broncos were good at the start and bad at the end those last years?
I give you my opinion (which is certainly debatable and I'll enjoy a fair debate here) : we start well because of our schemes, etc... We surprise teams by being innovative. But as the season goes, opponents can watch what we do... then, they see we have many issues (weak lines, etc...) and they know how to play against us.

I think 1 year is too short too change everything... yeah, I'm concerned too about our O... But may be it's all about changing our blocking schemes... Our OL can't play power blocking... Sure Orton isn't the best QB in this league... But if we can't run or if he is pressured, we don't help him...
What is better? having 1 or 2 great players and average ones around... or good players everywhere?

We can talk about the draft... I didn't like some moves... yeah... But draft is a big bet... We can laugh at SD for selecting Leaf, but who wouldn't have done that?
We took Moreno and Ayers, which makes sense... I agree about Smith and Quinn though... I don't understand the moves, and I think it was a bad bet...

So, in conclusion, North told it : I don't condamn McD after 1 year... but sure I expect MORE this year... I want to see our Broncos going in the right direction... if not, I'll say "fire McD"... plain and simple...

Peace. :defense: