Trading Marshall (good article w/ interesting ideas)

[Ravage!!!]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...marshall-begin


Denver Broncos WR Brandon Marshall Let The Bidding War Begin by Sayre Bedinger
Sayre Bedinger
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Written on January 25, 2010
Larry French/Getty Images It seems as though the Brandon Marshall saga in Denver is going to come to a close, and while fans may not like it at first, it truly is for the best.

Marshall has proven over the last four years that he is a top five wide receiver in this league on the field, but he is also one of the biggest team distractions in recent history.

For that fact alone, Marshall may have decreased his own value, not on the trade market, but in terms of getting a new contract from a team. Still, Marshall's talent, size, and game-changing ability have to be attractive to teams who may only be a wide receiver away from "Super" status.

Let's get something straight here about Marshall's current situation. The former UCF star was drafted in the fourth round by the Broncos in 2006, and like 211 other players, Marshall is set to become a restricted free agent this offseason. It's likely that the Broncos will tender Marshall the highest possible amount, which is roughly $2.6 million.

Based on that tender, any team that decides to pursue Marshall on the open market has to be willing to give up a first and third round draft pick as compensation.

It's not an option.

Due to this fact, the bidding for Brandon Marshall will begin with first and third round picks. There is also a chance teams will be looking to work out a sign-and-trade with the Broncos, assuming Denver will not be looking for the bare minimum in return for Brandon Marshall's services.

In my humble opinion, having watched Marshall for the last four seasons, on and off the field, and taking into account his financial situation, the value for Marshall right now has to be one of the following:

1. First, third, and fourth round picks

2. Three second round picks

3. Starting caliber player and first round pick

4. Pro Bowl caliber player (no older than 26)

If a team is unwilling to pay one of those particular prices, then they will be without Marshall for 2010, and maybe beyond. The Broncos have all the leverage here. Marshall may be a head-case at times, but his value is great to the Broncos. He is their top offensive playmaker.

Similar to the Jay Cutler situation in 2009, Denver will likely receive optimum return for Marshall following the best season of his career. But who will be willing to deal for him?

My guess is there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't like to have Marshall on the field, including the Broncos. But the NFL stands for Not For Long, and Marshall's time in Denver has been just that.

Given the fact that the 2010 NFL Draft is one of the deepest in recent memory, I personally believe the Broncos will look for at least two picks in the first three rounds as well as a solid veteran player in return for Marshall.

If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But last year when I suggested that Jay Cutler was worth two first round picks, a third round pick, and a solid veteran, I was basically laughed at. And that's exactly what the Broncos got.

I may not be exactly right on this, but Denver should accept no less than what I've just described in return for Marshall, an elite player at his position. Here are some potential trades that could formulate in the coming offseason, and at the very least, these are some of the teams that could be interested.

(In no particular order)



1. Marshall to Baltimore for first, third, and G Marshall Yanda

This would probably be an ideal trade for both teams. Marshall and the Broncos part ways, while the Ravens get an elite level wide receiver for young quarterback Joe Flacco. The Ravens seem like a solid candidate for the Broncos to trade with, and the Broncos would receive the 25th and 88th picks in the draft as well as a starting caliber offensive guard to improve their interior line.



2. Marshall to Miami for first, fourth, and WR Ted Ginn

Due to Miami's pick being higher, they likely will probably not want to give up a first and third, but they would probably be willing to part with Ted Ginn, a player I'm not sold on at this point in his career. I think he could be a nice return option for the Broncos, who need someone to fill that spot.



3. Marshall to New England for two second's, WR Randy Moss

This trade might seem a little steep for the Pats, but they clearly need an upgrade over Moss, and they have three second round picks. Given that New England isn't really losing much in terms of talent here, especially given the unproven second round draft choices (they also had three last year), this is a trade they would strongly consider making.



4. Marshall to Washington for first, fourth, WR Devin Thomas

In this scenario, the Broncos wind up with a nice young receiver in addition to a high draft pick, and Marshall reunites with former coach Mike Shanahan. Marshall knows the offense, and Shanahan would probably love to have him back. On a separate note, I think the Redskins will also try and deal for Peyton Hillis, provided Denver doesn't just outright cut him.



5. Marshall to Seattle for first, third, WR Deion Branch

Broncos take on a hefty contract in Branch here, and I doubt the Seahawks will want to give up either of their first round picks, but this is a possibility, as crazy as it sounds. Branch knows the New England offense, and Marshall would make a crazy good tandem with T.J. Houshmandzadeh.



6. Marshall to Cincinnati for first, fifth, LB Rey Maualuga

I thought when Denver traded back into the second round last year that Maualuga was they player they were targeting, and in hindsight they maybe should have. Maualuga was recently injured, but he still appears to be a fine player. Cincinnati probably won't want to deal their promising youngster, but they might have to if they want Marshall.



These are just a few options for the Broncos. To some, the return value might seem a little much, but when you think about the kind of player Marshall is it's really simple.

[milehigh]

I would love that first trade scenario if it was Ben Grubbs, a 1st and a 3rd. Draft a stud Center in the first few rounds and our line would be back to being dominant in the run game.

From

LT- Clady
LG- Hochstein
C- Weigmann
RG- Kuper
RT- Polumbus

to

LT- Clady
LG- Grubbs
C- (2nd or 3rd Round)
RG- Kuper
RT- Harris

:beer: Knowshon and Buck would appreciate this.

[ikillz0mbies]

I really don't have any complaints on those scenarios other than the Seattle one. The picks are nice, but Branch provides nothing for the team. He is highly injury prone, plus has a hefty contract as stated in the article.

I doubt the Bengals would trade away Maualuga. He played really well for them this past year. If they want a WR, I think they will address it in the draft.

I do love the Ravens scenario. Yanda is a good guard and perfect in the power blocking scheme that McDaniels wants to install. Plus, if the Broncos draft a lineman in the early rounds (i.e. Iupati, Pouncey), Yanda adds depth.

[Shazam!]

This will swing both ways. Some here could propose possible deals for Marshall that may seem beneficial and enticing, but even if they got a young John Elway and a slew of picks, they'd call McDaniels a jackass for trading a Pro Bowl WR.

A little off topic but just calling it like I see it.

[DenBronx]

call me crazy but i wouldnt mind seeing the marshall for moss and two 2nd rounders. moss can still make plays (when he wants) and can easily play another 3-5 years. a good rental yet we still get two 2nds to build this team.

dont forget moss knows this system very well.

[DenBronx]

This will swing both ways. Some here could propose possible deals for Marshall that may seem beneficial and enticing, but even if they got a young John Elway and a slew of picks, they'd call McDaniels a jackass for trading a Pro Bowl WR.

A little off topic but just calling it like I see it.

at this point i say deal him and bailey to load up on picks. maybe we should look to drafting a qb in round 1.

whats the price for dume? same? 1st and 3rd or more?

[Shazam!]

whats the price for dume? same? 1st and 3rd or more?

The thought of moving Doom kills me. Denver has been so mediocre with front seven talent, that losing their best player scares the shit out of me. That's one I'm extremely conflicted with.

[DenBronx]

The thought of moving Doom kills me. Denver has been so mediocre with front seven talent, that losing their best player scares the shit out of me. That's one I'm extremely conflicted with.

me too but at this point i think were going all in. if we dangled a pro bowl qb and now a pro bowl wr on the market it leads me to believe we will entertain offers for dume. i'm sure we field calls about him. nolan i bet is salivating to get him in miami.

[WARHORSE]

As I stated, Marshall will be a highly sought after player, and what Denver needs is some teams willing to bid for his services.

Marshall is hugely valuable to Shanahan. He also is valuable to the Texans. He also is valuable to the Patriots. And the Browns. And now the KC Chefs.

Why is that? Because he knows all of these offenses.

Ravens? No brainer. Marshall is the dump off guy that can become the reliable play waiting to happen in Marshall.

Seattle? Seattle has money.........AND picks. Marshall is not an iffy rookie. The 6th pick of the draft last year was guaranteed 21 million dollars. Would you rather give that to a Darius Heyward Bey/Michael Crabtree type, or Brandon Marshall? Its a no brainer.

Raiders? Boy, wouldnt Al Davis love to stick it to Bowlen by getting not only Marshall, but the inside scoop of the offense too? Brandon is the type of WR Jamarcus NEEDS. (cause hes dumb) I wouldnt mind this actually. Brandon and Jamarcus together in the same lockeroom would mean DEGRADATION.



Carolina
Bucs
Bills
Jags
Dolphins
Niners
Giants
Titans
Falcons
Texans
Bengals
Cowboys
Jets
Vikings
Colts



Im sure the Broncos are testing the waters right now in seeing who is looking at trading for Brandon. Im sure theyre figuring out that there is alot of interest.
Another possibility that no one is saying much, is that Denver may just franchise Brandon. I doubt it, but it may well happen. Non exclusive.

This will weed out the real players from the fakes. The compensation for this tender is two firsts. Denver goes into the FA period sitting on Brandon and waiting. Teams will begin talking to Brandons agent and the top bidders will be identified. Once teams know they have the inside scoop monetarily, they will begin to ask Denver if they will accept less than two firsts......perhaps a first and a second.

Of course, Denver will look at their teams and their draft position, and make a decision.

Get picks. Use some.

Trade down. Get bang for the buck.

[Lonestar]

I'd do almost any of them BUT the SEA one, IN A HEART BEAT. get all they can for this guy who is a talent to say the least but I do not trust him not to cause another shit storm, by beating his wife, doing something else stupid once he has BIG bucks to spend, or just being stupid on the field.

We all know what he is capable of doing and he is not going to get mature just because he gets a BIGGER paycheck.

[broncofaninfla]

The thought of moving Doom kills me. Denver has been so mediocre with front seven talent, that losing their best player scares the shit out of me. That's one I'm extremely conflicted with.

We'll probably be losing our best player on offense in Marshall, why not Doom as well? Seems like to perform in Denver is a ticket out of Denver.

[Dirk]

me too but at this point i think were going all in. if we dangled a pro bowl qb and now a pro bowl wr on the market it leads me to believe we will entertain offers for dume. i'm sure we field calls about him. nolan i bet is salivating to get him in miami.

I would trade Doom for Henne straight up. No picks included. :coffee:

Of course I don't think Nolan's desire for Doom will trump keeping Henne in Miami. But one could dream. :D

[Northman]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...marshall-begin


Denver Broncos WR Brandon Marshall Let The Bidding War Begin by Sayre Bedinger
Sayre Bedinger
Featured Columnist

427 articles written
3755 comments written
190 fans
View Profile

.
Written on January 25, 2010
Larry French/Getty Images It seems as though the Brandon Marshall saga in Denver is going to come to a close, and while fans may not like it at first, it truly is for the best.

Marshall has proven over the last four years that he is a top five wide receiver in this league on the field, but he is also one of the biggest team distractions in recent history.

For that fact alone, Marshall may have decreased his own value, not on the trade market, but in terms of getting a new contract from a team. Still, Marshall's talent, size, and game-changing ability have to be attractive to teams who may only be a wide receiver away from "Super" status.

Let's get something straight here about Marshall's current situation. The former UCF star was drafted in the fourth round by the Broncos in 2006, and like 211 other players, Marshall is set to become a restricted free agent this offseason. It's likely that the Broncos will tender Marshall the highest possible amount, which is roughly $2.6 million.

Based on that tender, any team that decides to pursue Marshall on the open market has to be willing to give up a first and third round draft pick as compensation.

It's not an option.

Due to this fact, the bidding for Brandon Marshall will begin with first and third round picks. There is also a chance teams will be looking to work out a sign-and-trade with the Broncos, assuming Denver will not be looking for the bare minimum in return for Brandon Marshall's services.

In my humble opinion, having watched Marshall for the last four seasons, on and off the field, and taking into account his financial situation, the value for Marshall right now has to be one of the following:

1. First, third, and fourth round picks

2. Three second round picks

3. Starting caliber player and first round pick

4. Pro Bowl caliber player (no older than 26)

If a team is unwilling to pay one of those particular prices, then they will be without Marshall for 2010, and maybe beyond. The Broncos have all the leverage here. Marshall may be a head-case at times, but his value is great to the Broncos. He is their top offensive playmaker.

Similar to the Jay Cutler situation in 2009, Denver will likely receive optimum return for Marshall following the best season of his career. But who will be willing to deal for him?

My guess is there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't like to have Marshall on the field, including the Broncos. But the NFL stands for Not For Long, and Marshall's time in Denver has been just that.

Given the fact that the 2010 NFL Draft is one of the deepest in recent memory, I personally believe the Broncos will look for at least two picks in the first three rounds as well as a solid veteran player in return for Marshall.

If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But last year when I suggested that Jay Cutler was worth two first round picks, a third round pick, and a solid veteran, I was basically laughed at. And that's exactly what the Broncos got.

I may not be exactly right on this, but Denver should accept no less than what I've just described in return for Marshall, an elite player at his position. Here are some potential trades that could formulate in the coming offseason, and at the very least, these are some of the teams that could be interested.

(In no particular order)



1. Marshall to Baltimore for first, third, and G Marshall Yanda

This would probably be an ideal trade for both teams. Marshall and the Broncos part ways, while the Ravens get an elite level wide receiver for young quarterback Joe Flacco. The Ravens seem like a solid candidate for the Broncos to trade with, and the Broncos would receive the 25th and 88th picks in the draft as well as a starting caliber offensive guard to improve their interior line.



2. Marshall to Miami for first, fourth, and WR Ted Ginn

Due to Miami's pick being higher, they likely will probably not want to give up a first and third, but they would probably be willing to part with Ted Ginn, a player I'm not sold on at this point in his career. I think he could be a nice return option for the Broncos, who need someone to fill that spot.



3. Marshall to New England for two second's, WR Randy Moss

This trade might seem a little steep for the Pats, but they clearly need an upgrade over Moss, and they have three second round picks. Given that New England isn't really losing much in terms of talent here, especially given the unproven second round draft choices (they also had three last year), this is a trade they would strongly consider making.



4. Marshall to Washington for first, fourth, WR Devin Thomas

In this scenario, the Broncos wind up with a nice young receiver in addition to a high draft pick, and Marshall reunites with former coach Mike Shanahan. Marshall knows the offense, and Shanahan would probably love to have him back. On a separate note, I think the Redskins will also try and deal for Peyton Hillis, provided Denver doesn't just outright cut him.



5. Marshall to Seattle for first, third, WR Deion Branch

Broncos take on a hefty contract in Branch here, and I doubt the Seahawks will want to give up either of their first round picks, but this is a possibility, as crazy as it sounds. Branch knows the New England offense, and Marshall would make a crazy good tandem with T.J. Houshmandzadeh.



6. Marshall to Cincinnati for first, fifth, LB Rey Maualuga

I thought when Denver traded back into the second round last year that Maualuga was they player they were targeting, and in hindsight they maybe should have. Maualuga was recently injured, but he still appears to be a fine player. Cincinnati probably won't want to deal their promising youngster, but they might have to if they want Marshall.



These are just a few options for the Broncos. To some, the return value might seem a little much, but when you think about the kind of player Marshall is it's really simple.


I would take either option 1 or 6.

[frenchfan]

I would trade Doom for Henne straight up. No picks included. :coffee:
Not a too bad idea IMO...

But Marshall for Peyton Manning ! This could kill me ;) :laugh:

[CoachChaz]

Let me throw out a few names...

Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Brandon LaFell, Damian Williams, Demaryius Thomas, Arrelious Benn and maybe Mardy Gilyard if he improves on his poor showing at Senior Bowl practice.

That's 7 top level WR's available in this years draft. Add that to a few top names potentially available through FA (Austin, Edwards, Bryant, jackson, Floyd, Walter, Avant, bess, Chambers) and suddenly the market for Marshall isnt quite so high.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Let me throw out a few names...

Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Brandon LaFell, Damian Williams, Demaryius Thomas, Arrelious Benn and maybe Mardy Gilyard if he improves on his poor showing at Senior Bowl practice.

That's 7 top level WR's available in this years draft. Add that to a few top names potentially available through FA (Austin, Edwards, Bryant, jackson, Floyd, Walter, Avant, bess, Chambers) and suddenly the market for Marshall isnt quite so high.

Both Austin and Edwards are expected to receive the high tenure. I doubt SD will let Jackson walk for nothing, either. Bryant is okay, but he's a headcase like Marshall. The rest of these guys can't even hold a candle to the guys already on the roster.

I still don't think we'll get anywhere near what the article says Marshall is worth. If he was squeaky clean off the field, maybe. Right now, I think we'll be willing to accept a second rounder and maybe a player for Marshall.

[CoachChaz]

Both Austin and Edwards are expected to receive the high tenure. I doubt SD will let Jackson walk for nothing, either. Bryant is okay, but he's a headcase like Marshall. The rest of these guys can't even hold a candle to the guys already on the roster.

I still don't think we'll get anywhere near what the article says Marshall is worth. If he was squeaky clean off the field, maybe. Right now, I think we'll be willing to accept a second rounder and maybe a player for Marshall.

Point is...why would people spend a 1st and 3rd when there are other options out there...especially in the draft? There are 4...possibly 5 solid first rounders at the position and when you consider the need teams have in other areas...a team like Baltimore could just wait and get a very solid rookie.

[SOCALORADO.]

Let me throw out a few names...

Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Brandon LaFell, Damian Williams, Demaryius Thomas, Arrelious Benn and maybe Mardy Gilyard if he improves on his poor showing at Senior Bowl practice.

That's 7 top level WR's available in this years draft. Add that to a few top names potentially available through FA (Austin, Edwards, Bryant, jackson, Floyd, Walter, Avant, bess, Chambers) and suddenly the market for Marshall isnt quite so high.

I would go for 1,3,4, or 6 scenarios.
Stay away from Branch and Ginn. Total waste of a player. Not worth it.
Those teams would have to do better, and i would look to a defensive player in MIA.
MIA
trades 1st, 4th and CB Sean Smith
to DEN for
WR Brandon Marshall, CB Champ Bailey

DEN would have the 11th and 12th picks in the 2010 1st round.
Sean Smith can play CB or FS. hes tall, and a ballhawk.
This would solve the Champ contract issue, and Sean Smith has played absolutely awsome as a rookie. CB Vonte Davis is also an option. I would expect DEN to force a good trade, and not get taken to the bank. Like the article says, DEN has all the leverage.


Also, MINN WR Eric Deckard is a really good WR that could go in the 2nd round as well.
Demaryius Thomas has absolutely no route running skills whatsoever. Hes a
3rd round project, at best. I like his physical skill set though. Very much a Marshall type of guy.

[Nomad]

I really don't have any complaints on those scenarios other than the Seattle one. The picks are nice, but Branch provides nothing for the team. He is highly injury prone, plus has a hefty contract as stated in the article.

I doubt the Bengals would trade away Maualuga. He played really well for them this past year. If they want a WR, I think they will address it in the draft.

I do love the Ravens scenario. Yanda is a good guard and perfect in the power blocking scheme that McDaniels wants to install. Plus, if the Broncos draft a lineman in the early rounds (i.e. Iupati, Pouncey), Yanda adds depth.

I'd have to agree with this take even though I'd rather see Marshall on the NFC side!!

I also agree with Chaz as well, alot of WO's this year and is Marshall worth it when you have all those options!!

So even if the BRONCOS and another team wanted to do a trade, they'd have to wait until March 5 before any action could occur??

[SOCALORADO.]

I'd have to agree with this take even though I'd rather see Marshall on the NFC side!!

I also agree with Chaz as well, alot of WO's this year and is Marshall worth it when you have all those options!!

So even if the BRONCOS and another team wanted to do a trade, they'd have to wait until March 5 before any action could occur??


The only option to me thats worth Marshall is getting into a position with the extra picks to aquire WR Dez Bryant. Basically as good as it gets in regards to a replacement.
If DEN could swing a trade with a team in the top 12 picks they could manipulate the draft to keep 2 1sts and still get Dez.

[CoachChaz]

I would go for 1,3,4, or 6 scenarios.
Stay away from Branch and Ginn. Total waste of a player. Not worth it.
Those teams would have to do better, and i would look to a defensive player in MIA.
MIA
trades 1st, 4th and CB Sean Smith
to DEN for
WR Brandon Marshall, CB Champ Bailey

DEN would have the 11th and 12th picks in the 2010 1st round.
Sean Smith can play CB or FS. hes tall, and a ballhawk.
This would solve the Champ contract issue, and Sean Smith has played absolutely awsome as a rookie. CB Vonte Davis is also an option. I would expect DEN to force a good trade, and not get taken to the bank. Like the article says, DEN has all the leverage.


Also, MINN WR Eric Deckard is a really good WR that could go in the 2nd round as well.
Demaryius Thomas has absolutely no route running skills whatsoever. Hes a
3rd round project, at best. I like his physical skill set though. Very much a Marshall type of guy.

Considering he played in a triple option offense, I think Thomas actually played very well. Sure, his route running skills couls use some work (they said the same about Maclin), but I think his biggest draft affecting factor will be his 40 time.

Deckard is solid, but the guy is injured every year. Bad ankle sprains, knee surgeries, season ending foot injuries...it'd be nice to see what he could do in a full season, but he cant seem to ever play one.

[Ravage!!!]

Why would you spend the top money on a WR that has put up numbers that compare to both Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson in his first four years in the NFL, compared to spending the money on an unknown rookie that hasn't played a snap? Because teams have seen a thousand times just how many top round players don't make it in the NFL. Its wiser to invest in a proved commodity than roll the dice.

[SOCALORADO.]

Why would you spend the top money on a WR that has put up numbers that compare to both Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson in his first four years in the NFL, compared to spending the money on an unknown rookie that hasn't played a snap? Because teams have seen a thousand times just how many top round players don't make it in the NFL. Its wiser to invest in a proved commodity than roll the dice.

Absolutely. I hope DEN keeps Marshall as much as the next guy, but if he goes, then i hope DEN maximizes his value as much as possible. Thats all i am sayin. DEN basically as far as i am concerned needs to rape another team of picks/players, or a combo of both.

[GEM]

Moss would become his typical head case self if he were put in this offense with Orton throwing to him.

[SOCALORADO.]

Considering he played in a triple option offense, I think Thomas actually played very well. Sure, his route running skills couls use some work (they said the same about Maclin), but I think his biggest draft affecting factor will be his 40 time.

Deckard is solid, but the guy is injured every year. Bad ankle sprains, knee surgeries, season ending foot injuries...it'd be nice to see what he could do in a full season, but he cant seem to ever play one.

Did not know that about Deckard. Good info!

[Biz1]

Tell you what, since we are fresh out of draft picks...how about a straight up player trade with the Bears?

Marshall for Devin Hester(there's your ST pro-bowler)plus another starter TBD.

[Ravage!!!]

Absolutely. I hope DEN keeps Marshall as much as the next guy, but if he goes, then i hope DEN maximizes his value as much as possible. Thats all i am sayin. DEN basically as far as i am concerned needs to rape another team of picks/players, or a combo of both.

Marshall won't stay. There just isn't a way that McD and he get along. So I don't have a thought of him staying any longer... but I agree with you completely. We HAVE to get solid value for letting a guy with that kind of talent go. If we get either one of the 1 or 6, I would be thrilled with the 'value' (especially since I thought we should have drafted Mal in the first place)... but still think its disappointing losing more talent from the offense.

[CoachChaz]

Why would you spend the top money on a WR that has put up numbers that compare to both Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson in his first four years in the NFL, compared to spending the money on an unknown rookie that hasn't played a snap? Because teams have seen a thousand times just how many top round players don't make it in the NFL. Its wiser to invest in a proved commodity than roll the dice.

I imagine of Marshall actually had the same skillset as Fitz and Boldin and wasnt suspended for one reason or another every season and didnt have a long history of off-field problems, then it would be a no brainer.

if Fitz, Johnson and Marshall were all available, do you really think people would be calling Marshall before talking to the other two at least a few times first?

[Hoser]

Why would you spend the top money on a WR that has put up numbers that compare to both Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson in his first four years in the NFL, compared to spending the money on an unknown rookie that hasn't played a snap? Because teams have seen a thousand times just how many top round players don't make it in the NFL. Its wiser to invest in a proved commodity than roll the dice.

Problem is Marshall is just as much of a roll of the dice as those rookies. One slip up and he's gone for most likely 8 weeks. That's not something you want out of somebody you're paying 10 mill a year.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver getting a first, second and fourth pick for marshall. And the Denver will probably trade down in the draft to acquire a surplus of depth picks.

[Poet]

Cincinnati actually could be in the Marshall sweepstakes. We almost swung a trade for Shaun Rogers two years ago and those two guys have similar knocks against them (barring the criminal ones for Marshall). Mike Brown is a strange guy (and a terrible owner). He loves big talent and he seems to love it when that big talented body is attached to a problem child. Cincinnati needs a wide receiver as well. Ocho is still a top ten WR, but he's 32 years old. Lavernous Coles wasn't the guy he was in New York and our prospects are a mixed bag. Andre Caldwell has been clutch for us but he's young and has issues using his great speed to stretch the field. Our second round pick two years ago, Jerome Simpson, is supposed to be a super talent but can't even get on the field because he's worthless. Quan Cosby is a special teams ace and can do some work on the field but I don't think he's going to be much more than a good number three/servicable number two WR.

And the void that Houshmandzadeh's departure left is staring at us in the face.

If we give up Maualuga I will probably hang myself. That guy is going to end up being our MLB of the future and he's already the heart and soul of the defense. If Cincinnati made this trade I wouldn't want them to give up the farm on Marshall.

I'm not sold at all that Marshall has ever grown up and matured. His actions at the beginning and the end of this season make me want to avoid him. I don't like the guys with criminal pasts, but as a Bengals fan I know that those are guys that we don't mind having on our team. Mike Brown inherited his dad's genuine belief in second chances. He DIDN'T inherit the actual strict and literal second chance philosophy.

The problem is that I expect Cincinnati to make a play for Anquan Boldin or Marshall. I don't like Boldin either because I think he's a whiner and watching him be angry when his team made the Super Bowl spoke volumes to me about his character. I'd prefer him over Marshall, but Boldin is often injured. Marshall usually can get onto the field when cold air and phantom hamstring injuries aren't plaguing him.

If we get Marshall I will probably cry tears of shame.

He's probably a top five WR. He's got a great set of skills and can dominate a game. He's just not reliable and is in my opinion a cancer.

[e-Lou-sive1]

I really don't like Marshall for Randy Moss why go from bad to worse?Devin Thomas -Washington,I really don't think Shanahan is prepared to bargain with Denver yet.Ted Ginn-Miami he really isn't Miami best receiver so were giving up a lot for a little,same with Deion Branch-Seattle.The first and sixth scenario seem to be the best so far.The trade needs to be apples for apples ,no more lemons please.

[Northman]

Point is...why would people spend a 1st and 3rd when there are other options out there...especially in the draft? There are 4...possibly 5 solid first rounders at the position and when you consider the need teams have in other areas...a team like Baltimore could just wait and get a very solid rookie.

Because the draft is a crapshoot. Especially with wideouts. Brandon is a proven receiver and therefore his stock is much higher than a guy just coming out of college.

[underrated29]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...marshall-begin


Denver Broncos WR Brandon Marshall Let The Bidding War Begin by Sayre Bedinger
Sayre Bedinger
Featured Columnist

427 articles written
3755 comments written
190 fans
View Profile

.
Written on January 25, 2010
Larry French/Getty Images It seems as though the Brandon Marshall saga in Denver is going to come to a close, and while fans may not like it at first, it truly is for the best.

Marshall has proven over the last four years that he is a top five wide receiver in this league on the field, but he is also one of the biggest team distractions in recent history.

For that fact alone, Marshall may have decreased his own value, not on the trade market, but in terms of getting a new contract from a team. Still, Marshall's talent, size, and game-changing ability have to be attractive to teams who may only be a wide receiver away from "Super" status.

Let's get something straight here about Marshall's current situation. The former UCF star was drafted in the fourth round by the Broncos in 2006, and like 211 other players, Marshall is set to become a restricted free agent this offseason. It's likely that the Broncos will tender Marshall the highest possible amount, which is roughly $2.6 million.

Based on that tender, any team that decides to pursue Marshall on the open market has to be willing to give up a first and third round draft pick as compensation.

It's not an option.

Due to this fact, the bidding for Brandon Marshall will begin with first and third round picks. There is also a chance teams will be looking to work out a sign-and-trade with the Broncos, assuming Denver will not be looking for the bare minimum in return for Brandon Marshall's services.

In my humble opinion, having watched Marshall for the last four seasons, on and off the field, and taking into account his financial situation, the value for Marshall right now has to be one of the following:

1. First, third, and fourth round picks

2. Three second round picks

3. Starting caliber player and first round pick

4. Pro Bowl caliber player (no older than 26)

If a team is unwilling to pay one of those particular prices, then they will be without Marshall for 2010, and maybe beyond. The Broncos have all the leverage here. Marshall may be a head-case at times, but his value is great to the Broncos. He is their top offensive playmaker.

Similar to the Jay Cutler situation in 2009, Denver will likely receive optimum return for Marshall following the best season of his career. But who will be willing to deal for him?

My guess is there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't like to have Marshall on the field, including the Broncos. But the NFL stands for Not For Long, and Marshall's time in Denver has been just that.

Given the fact that the 2010 NFL Draft is one of the deepest in recent memory, I personally believe the Broncos will look for at least two picks in the first three rounds as well as a solid veteran player in return for Marshall.

If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But last year when I suggested that Jay Cutler was worth two first round picks, a third round pick, and a solid veteran, I was basically laughed at. And that's exactly what the Broncos got.

I may not be exactly right on this, but Denver should accept no less than what I've just described in return for Marshall, an elite player at his position. Here are some potential trades that could formulate in the coming offseason, and at the very least, these are some of the teams that could be interested.

(In no particular order)



1. Marshall to Baltimore for first, third, and G Marshall Yanda

This would probably be an ideal trade for both teams. Marshall and the Broncos part ways, while the Ravens get an elite level wide receiver for young quarterback Joe Flacco. The Ravens seem like a solid candidate for the Broncos to trade with, and the Broncos would receive the 25th and 88th picks in the draft as well as a starting caliber offensive guard to improve their interior line.



2. Marshall to Miami for first, fourth, and WR Ted Ginn

Due to Miami's pick being higher, they likely will probably not want to give up a first and third, but they would probably be willing to part with Ted Ginn, a player I'm not sold on at this point in his career. I think he could be a nice return option for the Broncos, who need someone to fill that spot.



3. Marshall to New England for two second's, WR Randy Moss

This trade might seem a little steep for the Pats, but they clearly need an upgrade over Moss, and they have three second round picks. Given that New England isn't really losing much in terms of talent here, especially given the unproven second round draft choices (they also had three last year), this is a trade they would strongly consider making.



4. Marshall to Washington for first, fourth, WR Devin Thomas

In this scenario, the Broncos wind up with a nice young receiver in addition to a high draft pick, and Marshall reunites with former coach Mike Shanahan. Marshall knows the offense, and Shanahan would probably love to have him back. On a separate note, I think the Redskins will also try and deal for Peyton Hillis, provided Denver doesn't just outright cut him.



5. Marshall to Seattle for first, third, WR Deion Branch

Broncos take on a hefty contract in Branch here, and I doubt the Seahawks will want to give up either of their first round picks, but this is a possibility, as crazy as it sounds. Branch knows the New England offense, and Marshall would make a crazy good tandem with T.J. Houshmandzadeh.



6. Marshall to Cincinnati for first, fifth, LB Rey Maualuga

I thought when Denver traded back into the second round last year that Maualuga was they player they were targeting, and in hindsight they maybe should have. Maualuga was recently injured, but he still appears to be a fine player. Cincinnati probably won't want to deal their promising youngster, but they might have to if they want Marshall.



These are just a few options for the Broncos. To some, the return value might seem a little much, but when you think about the kind of player Marshall is it's really simple.






This article is a load of crap!

None of these trades are remotely reasonable..........(although i would love to have Devin Thomas).......... I do not know who wrote it, but they did a horrible job of researching.

In addition to the far far fetched trades, this year is a pretty good year for WR. There are also quite a few good WR without baggage that are RFA or FA this year. All of this lowers brandons value. I do not think we will see many bidders for a 1st and 3rd. I can only see that happeneing on draft day for a move.

Otherwise we are probably looking at a couple 2nds or IMO no trade at all. Josh has no reason to trade him. If he did he probably wouldnt have benched him last game of the year, or done anything to hurt his value.....which has been done.





If brandon is gone, imo, it will either be a draft day move, or for some 2nd rdrs.

[CoachChaz]

Because the draft is a crapshoot. Especially with wideouts. Brandon is a proven receiver and therefore his stock is much higher than a guy just coming out of college.

Okay, so you pay a rookie to come in and learn with most likely a young QB (Henne, Flacco, etc)...or you bring in a guy that is a magnet for controversy and will immediately want $10 mil a year.

Every team will have their preference. At the end of the day...I think I'll be surprised if someone offers a first for Brandon...let alone a first and something else. JMO

[Lonestar]

Okay, so you pay a rookie to come in and learn with most likely a young QB (Henne, Flacco, etc)...or you bring in a guy that is a magnet for controversy and will immediately want $10 mil a year.

Every team will have their preference. At the end of the day...I think I'll be surprised if someone offers a first for Brandon...let alone a first and something else. JMO


I tend to agree with you on this I know if I was a GM unless my HC was the type like the Giants have I would not deal for him at all.

He needs a very strict environment and some one that will fine him or suspend him in a heart beat, if he screws the pooch again.

With all the other WR out there and then more in the draft why would someone deal for this head case.

BUT if someone offers a 1st and a 3rd or better I would take it and laugh all the way to the draft.

[titan]

I seriously doubt the Broncos would get this much for Marshall. This looks like bleacher report speculation rather than good info from inside sources. They are right, though, that the Broncos have all the leverage with Marshall.

[SOCALORADO.]

Okay, so you pay a rookie to come in and learn with most likely a young QB (Henne, Flacco, etc)...or you bring in a guy that is a magnet for controversy and will immediately want $10 mil a year.

Every team will have their preference. At the end of the day...I think I'll be surprised if someone offers a first for Brandon...let alone a first and something else. JMO

I respectfully disagree. I think his talent level will overide the attitude, IF! its a specific team. BALT comes to mind. I think those guys and the coaching staff can handle him.
Not sure bout Parcells though. And we all know whos in charge down in MIA.

[underrated29]

I respectfully disagree. I think his talent level will overide the attitude, IF! its a specific team. BALT comes to mind. I think those guys and the coaching staff can handle him.
Not sure bout Parcells though. And we all know whos in charge down in MIA.



Bal- has already said they are not interested. for starters.


Secondly, Demarius Thomas, who IMO is a Marshall CLONE, will/should be available in the late first early 2nd. He would be cheaper for them to get (as far as picks), cheaper for them as far as cost, and not have all the baggage that Brandon has. No he is not proven, but is a 1st and 3rd and $$$$ really worth proven when you have an 80% or higher chance that a guy like D.T. will produce for so much less in every category....

C.- As has been said, we really have no reason to let brandon go unless its for max value at a 1 and 3. I doubt a team will do that. Its just like the bolts and Vincent Jax.

5. Boldin will be gone from AZ this year, and anyone who is anyone would take him over brandon right now. Plus there are all the other FA or RFA and the pretty good crop of draftees. I know its kinda a repeat but the market is saturated right now in the WR department. A smart GM/team/coach, would realize this and not pay top dollar for him...

[DenBronx]

I'd like to see us deal.

Bailey
Dume
Marshall
Sheffler

Yeah we would take a huge hit on both sides of the ball but I really don't see us dishing out the money for any of these guys. Granted Sheff won't cost that much but we could possibly still get a 4th for him. If we dealt all of these players I could see us getting TWO 1ST, ONE 2ND, THREE 3RDS AND A 4TH and possibly a player. That's a whole new draft! It would also solve the contract issues and help us keep the cap down.

It's time to rebuild and go after rookies. As much as I would hate to see these guys go It just makes to much sense at this point.

I would love to see Mccoy, Bradford or even Claussen here in Denver for the future. Maybe Golden Tate or Dez Bryant. Clady and Royal will only be in their 3rd years and Moreno in his second. We would have a new and upcoming offense.

Maybe even do a deal to Cincy to get Maualuga then deal DJ too.

[claymore]

I'd like to see us deal.

Bailey
Dume
Marshall
Sheffler

Yeah we would take a huge hit on both sides of the ball but I really don't see us dishing out the money for any of these guys. Granted Sheff won't cost that much but we could possibly still get a 4th for him. If we dealt all of these players I could see us getting TWO 1ST, ONE 2ND, THREE 3RDS AND A 4TH and possibly a player. That's a whole new draft! It would also solve the contract issues and help us keep the cap down.

It's time to rebuild and go after rookies. As much as I would hate to see these guys go It just makes to much sense at this point.

I would love to see Mccoy, Bradford or even Claussen here in Denver for the future. Maybe Golden Tate or Dez Bryant. Clady and Royal will only be in their 3rd years and Moreno in his second. We would have a new and upcoming offense.

Maybe even do a deal to Cincy to get Maualuga then deal DJ too.

I want to get something for Bailey. I damn sure dont want to pay him 12 million dollars.

[DenBronx]

I want to get something for Bailey. I damn sure dont want to pay him 12 million dollars.

me too and at his age is he really worth 12 mill??? goodman outplayed bailey last year. i would like a 2nd and to see us dump that 12 mill. bailey will do just fine with mike and the skins. we seriously should look to more youth to this team.

[claymore]

me too and at his age is he really worth 12 mill??? goodman outplayed bailey last year. i would like a 2nd and to see us dump that 12 mill. bailey will do just fine with mike and the skins. we seriously should look to more youth to this team.

I dont think he is worth more than 3 mill a year. Let Alphonso Smith earn his #14 status.

[DenBronx]

Bal- has already said they are not interested. for starters.


Secondly, Demarius Thomas, who IMO is a Marshall CLONE, will/should be available in the late first early 2nd. He would be cheaper for them to get (as far as picks), cheaper for them as far as cost, and not have all the baggage that Brandon has. No he is not proven, but is a 1st and 3rd and $$$$ really worth proven when you have an 80% or higher chance that a guy like D.T. will produce for so much less in every category....

C.- As has been said, we really have no reason to let brandon go unless its for max value at a 1 and 3. I doubt a team will do that. Its just like the bolts and Vincent Jax.

5. Boldin will be gone from AZ this year, and anyone who is anyone would take him over brandon right now. Plus there are all the other FA or RFA and the pretty good crop of draftees. I know its kinda a repeat but the market is saturated right now in the WR department. A smart GM/team/coach, would realize this and not pay top dollar for him...



WR's are still a hot commodity. Referance the Cowboys.

[The Glue Factory]

I'd like to see us deal.

Bailey
Dume
Marshall
Sheffler

Yeah we would take a huge hit on both sides of the ball but I really don't see us dishing out the money for any of these guys. Granted Sheff won't cost that much but we could possibly still get a 4th for him. If we dealt all of these players I could see us getting TWO 1ST, ONE 2ND, THREE 3RDS AND A 4TH and possibly a player. That's a whole new draft! It would also solve the contract issues and help us keep the cap down.

It's time to rebuild and go after rookies. As much as I would hate to see these guys go It just makes to much sense at this point.

I would love to see Mccoy, Bradford or even Claussen here in Denver for the future. Maybe Golden Tate or Dez Bryant. Clady and Royal will only be in their 3rd years and Moreno in his second. We would have a new and upcoming offense.

Maybe even do a deal to Cincy to get Maualuga then deal DJ too.


And then in a few years we've got a REAL cap problem. Not to mention we need veterans around to help all those rookies get up to speed quicker.

I'm sorry but bringing in a whole slew of rookies in one year brings a lot of risk: much bigger chance of getting busts or underachievers, cap problems in the future, short term team chemistry (ie team identity - where is it?) and a bunch of college pukes trying to learn the ropes with relatively few (if any) veterans to provide pointers. I'm not saying keep all these cats, but trading away everyone of value to rebuild doesn't make sense either.

Remember: real life does NOT play like Madden!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'd like to see us deal.

Bailey
Dume
Marshall
Sheffler

Yeah we would take a huge hit on both sides of the ball but I really don't see us dishing out the money for any of these guys.

Maybe even do a deal to Cincy to get Maualuga then deal DJ too.

:lol: Let's just trade all of our good players! Shit, while we're at it, we've got a pair of slightly used, yet great, bookend OTs, too! Why not trade Clady and Harris while we're "blowing up" the roster?

Does anyone here actually think we'll win any games with a team full of rookies and Kyle Orton? We'll be the Detroit Lions if we trade away all our talent. But that's cool, who really cares about winning especially if you get lots of draft picks and rookies (who've proven nothing) to fill out your roster?!

What the hell ever, guys. :coffee::tsk:

[Northman]

Okay, so you pay a rookie to come in and learn with most likely a young QB (Henne, Flacco, etc)...or you bring in a guy that is a magnet for controversy and will immediately want $10 mil a year.

Every team will have their preference. At the end of the day...I think I'll be surprised if someone offers a first for Brandon...let alone a first and something else. JMO

And its a fair one. I dont disagree about the "possible" controversy that Brandon could bring to the table. However, he has proven that on the field that he is capable of being an elite receiver. Right now, as much as i hate to say it his on field play has overshadowed his other issues. I think there will be a handful of teams (bmore being one) that are close to the promise land and wont want to wait to see if their next #1 draft choice will be another Michael Clayton or whatever. As with you, JMO

[Northman]

Bal- has already said they are not interested. for starters.




:lol:

Lol, um ok. They talk about him all the time here in Bmore as a possibility.

[rcsodak]

Point is...why would people spend a 1st and 3rd when there are other options out there...especially in the draft? There are 4...possibly 5 solid first rounders at the position and when you consider the need teams have in other areas...a team like Baltimore could just wait and get a very solid rookie.

Because he's a 4yr player, proven 100 catch wr versus a Big ? And his contract would be less than a high draft pick.

[rcsodak]

I want to get something for Bailey. I damn sure dont want to pay him 12 million dollars.

Last I looked, you aren't. :coffee:

FYI-didn't I read where he didn't allow a Passing TD?

[DenBronx]

Last I looked, you aren't. :coffee:

FYI-didn't I read where he didn't allow a Passing TD?

he didnt but he did give up tons of big plays allowing teams to score in the red zone.

[nevcraw]

was that really an article?? didnt read any financial impications.. we at the forum are soooo concerned about not spending patty b's loot..

[horsepig]

I tend to agree with you on this I know if I was a GM unless my HC was the type like the Giants have I would not deal for him at all.

He needs a very strict environment and some one that will fine him or suspend him in a heart beat, if he screws the pooch again.

With all the other WR out there and then more in the draft why would someone deal for this head case.












BUT if someone offers a 1st and a 3rd or better I would take it and laugh all the way to the draft.
I don't mean to pick on you Jr., but you guys are full of it, Coach
Chaz.

In fifty years of this franchise they have drafted exactly two wide outs who could produce 100 plus catches/yr. The incomparable Lionel Taylor (from a far different time and era of offenenses) and BM.

Remember Marcus Nash anyone? How about the trade for Anthony Miller that was supposed to make Elway unstoppable?

Guys that catch 100+/yr for over 1000 yds, AND make the difference between winning and losing more than once/year are very ####### rare.

Rod, Eddie Mac: not drafted. Jewels gleaned from the scrap heap. Maybe you guys want to trade him straight up for Heyward-Bey, or that holdout from the Niners? There's some great returns from a few choice draft picks. Get real boys.

[horsepig]

My point is, any team looking for a 100 catch/yr receiver that can make huge plays and change games is going to be looking very, very hard at BM.

I guess the really relevant question is: what NFL team is not salivating and dripping in their drawers over such a prospect?

BM is the equivalent of a RB who gained 1500 yds/yr for three years running and broke 2 or 3 great plays/yr that won games. Pretty valuable player IMHO.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

was that really an article?? didnt read any financial impications.. we at the forum are soooo concerned about not spending patty b's loot..

No kidding. Who the hell cares how much the players make or don't make? Salaries aren't my concern. Fans worry more about the cap than the FO does I think. Not to mention, but it's about to be an UNCAPPED year anyway, so who really cares what the Broncos promise to pay someone? It's not like it ever happens, anyway.

[claymore]

I care about the money. 12 million is 10%'ish of the salary cap. Champ Bailey is not worth a tenth of the money it takes to field a team.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I care about the money. 12 million is 10%'ish of the salary cap. Champ Bailey is not worth a tenth of the money it takes to field a team.

Why not? It's not like Orton is earning any of it. :D Seriously, though, who really cares? It's an uncapped year for crying out loud so bailey's contract this year is 10% of...nothing.

[claymore]

Why not? It's not like Orton is earning any of it. :D Seriously, though, who really cares? It's an uncapped year for crying out loud so bailey's contract this year is 10% of...nothing.

Bowlen doesnt have the knid of long money other teams have. We cant keep an mediocre Bailey on the roster for 12 million dollars. A great bailey maybe. But not an ok one.

This coupled with the fact we may have 3 first round picks to sign this year, Or 1 first rounder, Marshall, Doom, and Orton, Kuper too I think... Plus we may have to franchise one of those guys as well.

Bailey's contract does nothing but limit us, and his play last year didnt merit 12 million dollars.

[CrazyHorse]

Bowlen doesnt have the knid of long money other teams have. We cant keep an mediocre Bailey on the roster for 12 million dollars. A great bailey maybe. But not an ok one.

This coupled with the fact we may have 3 first round picks to sign this year, Or 1 first rounder, Marshall, Doom, and Orton, Kuper too I think... Plus we may have to franchise one of those guys as well.

Bailey's contract does nothing but limit us, and his play last year didnt merit 12 million dollars.

I think he should be "team player" and restructure. He's still a top 10 corner.

[Lonestar]

I don't mean to pick on you Jr., but you guys are full of it, Coach
Chaz.

In fifty years of this franchise they have drafted exactly two wide outs who could produce 100 plus catches/yr. The incomparable Lionel Taylor (from a far different time and era of offenenses) and BM.

Remember Marcus Nash anyone? How about the trade for Anthony Miller that was supposed to make Elway unstoppable?

Guys that catch 100+/yr for over 1000 yds, AND make the difference between winning and losing more than once/year are very ####### rare.

Rod, Eddie Mac: not drafted. Jewels gleaned from the scrap heap. Maybe you guys want to trade him straight up for Heyward-Bey, or that holdout from the Niners? There's some great returns from a few choice draft picks. Get real boys.


while I understand why you feel that way. I think your wrong.

we do not have to have a 100 per year pass catcher.

you need to be more balanced than that.

IMHO.

[CoachChaz]

while I understand why you feel that way. I think your wrong.

we do not have to have a 100 per year pass catcher.

you need to be more balanced than that.

IMHO.

I guess that's kind of where I'm coming from. When one guy has 100 and the next one has 50...there isnt much balance in the attack. Let's also not forget that there really isnt much balance in Marshall's game as it pertains to his reception totals either. 32 of his 101 receptions came in 2 games...both of which were losses.

When we were 6-0...he was averaging just under 5 catches a game for about 55 yards. He had ZERO 100 yard games and 4 TD.

When we were 2-8, he was averaging 8 catches per game for about 88 yards, had 3 100 yard games and 6 TD.

So...in a way...we were better off when there was more balance in the passing game. not saying this is Brandon's "fault", but looking for him all the time didnt exactly help

[SOCALORADO.]

I guess that's kind of where I'm coming from. When one guy has 100 and the next one has 50...there isnt much balance in the attack. Let's also not forget that there really isnt much balance in Marshall's game as it pertains to his reception totals either. 32 of his 101 receptions came in 2 games...both of which were losses.

When we were 6-0...he was averaging just under 5 catches a game for about 55 yards. He had ZERO 100 yard games and 4 TD.

When we were 2-8, he was averaging 8 catches per game for about 88 yards, had 3 100 yard games and 6 TD.

So...in a way...we were better off when there was more balance in the passing game. not saying this is Brandon's "fault", but looking for him all the time didnt exactly help


I think this issue is two fold in that yes, Brandon got alot of balls his way, but i would hope most of you agree that this was because he happens to be a huge beast of a player that can when asked, catch 100 balls a season.
What i am implying is that Orton cannot throw accurately after 20 yards, and because of this, Royal disappeared. Sheffler another huge red zone target found some success as well because like Marshall, hes a huge target with good hands.
I think this issue has alot to do with the QB position more than Brandon catching 100 balls. MCD had no choice but to focus in on Brandon because a QB doesnt have to be remotely precise when throwing to him, the QB just has to get the ball into the vicinity of Marshall and Marshall does the rest.

So yes, its nice to have a 100 ball WR, but a team needs a QB with the ability to throw accurately after 20 yards. +
Thats balance to me.

[CoachChaz]

I think this issue is two fold in that yes, Brandon got alot of balls his way, but i would hope most of you agree that this was because he happens to be a huge beast of a player that can when asked, catch 100 balls a season.
What i am implying is that Orton cannot throw accurately after 20 yards, and because of this, Royal disappeared. Sheffler another huge red zone target found some success as well because like Marshall, hes a huge target with good hands.
I think this issue has alot to do with the QB position more than Brandon catching 100 balls. MCD had no choice but to focus in on Brandon because a QB doesnt have to be remotely precise when throwing to him, the QB just has to get the ball into the vicinity of Marshall and Marshall does the rest.

So yes, its nice to have a 100 ball WR, but a team needs a QB with the ability to throw accurately after 20 yards. +
Thats balance to me.



I wont argue with orton's inadequacies, but look at the NE game. it's not like Orton couldnt find Eddie (10 catches, 90 yards). That game was probably the definition of balance.

So I wont argue that Orton's game plays into this. As I said previously...it's not like the numbers are Marshall's "fault". but suppose we eventually have a QB with more skill. Will it be a requirement at that time to have a $10 million dollar, 100 reception receiver with baggage?

[SOCALORADO.]

I wont argue with orton's inadequacies, but look at the NE game. it's not like Orton couldnt find Eddie (10 catches, 90 yards). That game was probably the definition of balance.

So I wont argue that Orton's game plays into this. As I said previously...it's not like the numbers are Marshall's "fault". but suppose we eventually have a QB with more skill. Will it be a requirement at that time to have a $10 million dollar, 100 reception receiver with baggage?

No. thats why i dont really have an issue with him leaving. If he DIDNT have the baggage though, i would expect and hope he was re-signed.
Lets face it, his value to the offense is huge.
But, i think DENs issues on offense have alot to do with the QB.
The "spread" asks alot of the QB. Strong armed, preferably tall, accurate, cerebral QB is needed. Doesnt need a scrambler, doesnt need a rocket arm, dont need a wildcat guy. And for all the haters, no, it doesnt need a "cutler".
No Jeff Georgian loons.

Its a balance between a "Spread" QB and his WRs.
I just dont think DEN has that yet, so losing a sure thing like Marshall is huge to alot of fans. He $$$, and they know it.

[Ravage!!!]

I guess that's kind of where I'm coming from. When one guy has 100 and the next one has 50...there isnt much balance in the attack. Let's also not forget that there really isnt much balance in Marshall's game as it pertains to his reception totals either. 32 of his 101 receptions came in 2 games...both of which were losses.

When we were 6-0...he was averaging just under 5 catches a game for about 55 yards. He had ZERO 100 yard games and 4 TD.

When we were 2-8, he was averaging 8 catches per game for about 88 yards, had 3 100 yard games and 6 TD.

So...in a way...we were better off when there was more balance in the passing game. not saying this is Brandon's "fault", but looking for him all the time didnt exactly help


Yeah.. but those aren't the only factors.

Meaning.. the reason he has more catches, is because we were behind more often after the bye week. Our defense actually allowed points, and thus we couldn't simply play conservative any longer. We had to put the ball in the air MORE, thus more catches.

Although I agree that a person likes to see a team spread the ball around, when you have a guy on the team that is capable of being that dominant, it opens things up. It makes defenses HAVE to game-plan to defend him. Defenses HAD to game-plan for Marshall.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah.. but those aren't the only factors.

Meaning.. the reason he has more catches, is because we were behind more often after the bye week. Our defense actually allowed points, and thus we couldn't simply play conservative any longer. We had to put the ball in the air MORE, thus more catches.

Although I agree that a person likes to see a team spread the ball around, when you have a guy on the team that is capable of being that dominant, it opens things up. It makes defenses HAVE to game-plan to defend him. Defenses HAD to game-plan for Marshall.

I agree...but do we need to pay a guy based on the fact that he could have 100 catches if we needed him to, if we're working at getting to point where we dont need him to?

[weazel]

6. Marshall to Cincinnati for first, fifth, LB Rey Maualuga

I thought when Denver traded back into the second round last year that Maualuga was they player they were targeting, and in hindsight they maybe should have. Maualuga was recently injured, but he still appears to be a fine player. Cincinnati probably won't want to deal their promising youngster, but they might have to if they want Marshall.



If we were to get Maualuga in the deal that would be freaking sweet! That's who I wanted in the draft... Isn't going to happen though.

[Ravage!!!]

I agree...but do we need to pay a guy based on the fact that he could have 100 catches if we needed him to, if we're working at getting to point where we dont need him to?

Do we need him to catch 100 balls. ... no. But having the receiver that has the SKILLS good enough to catch 100 balls a season is one that doesn't come around often. Opposing teams absolutely have to game-plan around him and for him. Larry Fitz doesn't catch 100 balls a season, nor does Andre Johnson, but are the teams they play for NEARLY as good without them? Do we honestly think they could just simply replace those players with another?

I think we are so close to the forest to see the trees. But we know that both Houston and AZ wouldn't be near the offense they are without their respective WRs on the roster. We have THAT kind of presence on the team, and are getting rid of him. Do we "need" that kind of WR? In my opinion, hell yeah we do.

[CoachChaz]

Do we need him to catch 100 balls. ... no. But having the receiver that has the SKILLS good enough to catch 100 balls a season is one that doesn't come around often. Opposing teams absolutely have to game-plan around him and for him. Larry Fitz doesn't catch 100 balls a season, nor does Andre Johnson, but are the teams they play for NEARLY as good without them? Do we honestly think they could just simply replace those players with another?

I think we are so close to the forest to see the trees. But we know that both Houston and AZ wouldn't be near the offense they are without their respective WRs on the roster. We have THAT kind of presence on the team, and are getting rid of him. Do we "need" that kind of WR? In my opinion, hell yeah we do.

Johnson accounted for 25% of Houston's receptions, Fitzgerald accounted for 25% of Arizona's receptions...Marshall acoounted for 30% of Denver's. So with a little diversity from the QB or more talent at the WR position (take your pick), I dont think Marshall ever sees 100 recpetions over the last 3 years. he has pretty much benefitted from one QB that would throw through triple coverage to get to him and another that was afraid to throw to anyone other than him.

My question is...do we want to pay extra because of that? If Marshall only cuaght 25% of Denver's receptions, he'd only have 81, 96 and 85 receptions over the last 3 years and Johnson and Fitz would still have their numbers. So, I feel his numbers are inflated due to poor QB decisions. I guess I just dont feel compelled to pay a guy a ton of money simply because he was the best and sometimes only option. mainly because that will change

[Ravage!!!]

Johnson accounted for 25% of Houston's receptions, Fitzgerald accounted for 25% of Arizona's receptions...Marshall acoounted for 30% of Denver's. So with a little diversity from the QB or more talent at the WR position (take your pick), I dont think Marshall ever sees 100 recpetions over the last 3 years. he has pretty much benefitted from one QB that would throw through triple coverage to get to him and another that was afraid to throw to anyone other than him.

My question is...do we want to pay extra because of that? If Marshall only cuaght 25% of Denver's receptions, he'd only have 81, 96 and 85 receptions over the last 3 years and Johnson and Fitz would still have their numbers. So, I feel his numbers are inflated due to poor QB decisions. I guess I just dont feel compelled to pay a guy a ton of money simply because he was the best and sometimes only option. mainly because that will change


We also had another WR catch 90 passes in the same year with other QBs. Its not like he as the ONLY one targeted, and as you just pointed out, Marshall isn't exactly getting a TON more passes than either Fitz or Johnson, yet Marshall's numbers dwarf Johnson's in the first 4 years of their career.

So, the question is do we want to pay MORE money for that kind of talent??? Are you willing to pay more money for a Fitz/Johnson type of talent or do you simply believe that you can 'due' without it? I'm not so sure the team is getting better with lesser and lesser talent kept on the team.

So yes... I think he's worth the money because of his talent level.. just as Fitz and Johnson. I don't think you simply replace him with anyone else, just as you simply don't replace Fitz or Andre for their teams. We can't simply "put someone in his spot" and expect the ball to then be magically better all over the field... because thats what you would see on every team. You wouldn't have teams draft a Fitz or a Johnson (or a Johnson), you wouldn't see Crabtrees or whomever it is that people want us to draft this year (can't think of his name).

Premium players cost more money. But its pretty damned rare that teams make it to, or win, the Super Bowl without premium players.

It seems that we have fallen into the "KC Royals" type of philosophy lately.
Don't pay the big bucks to any top players, and let them go to other teams because "we dont need them."

Doesn't matter either way. Marshall isn't staying in Denver no matter what. So I guess the best way to look at it is that 'no, we are much better off getting rid of the talent on the team, and save the money.'

[CoachChaz]

As I said before...I'd like to keep him, but I dont know that I'm ready to pay HIM what the other guys make. If he was just a prima donna that ran his mouth it would be one thing...but a guy that does enough to get suspended by the league or the coach is a risk when it comes to the bigger contracts.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't take the suspension from the coach all that seriously, considering the situation. I also think that the risk is worth it.

But... that being said... I also know it doesn't matter. No way Marshall is here next season no matter what.... so its a reality that Marshall is gone. Worth the moola or not.

[TXBRONC]

I guess that's kind of where I'm coming from. When one guy has 100 and the next one has 50...there isnt much balance in the attack. Let's also not forget that there really isnt much balance in Marshall's game as it pertains to his reception totals either. 32 of his 101 receptions came in 2 games...both of which were losses.

When we were 6-0...he was averaging just under 5 catches a game for about 55 yards. He had ZERO 100 yard games and 4 TD.

When we were 2-8, he was averaging 8 catches per game for about 88 yards, had 3 100 yard games and 6 TD.

So...in a way...we were better off when there was more balance in the passing game. not saying this is Brandon's "fault", but looking for him all the time didnt exactly help

The imbalance that you speak of probably has more to do with the guy distributing the ball. Take Marshall out of the offense I think they will struggle even more to score points. I also think the last game of the season is a good indicator of what I'm saying.

[CoachChaz]

The imbalance that you speak of probably has more to do with the guy distributing the ball. Take Marshall out of the offense I think they will struggle even more to score points. I also think the last game of the season is a good indicator of what I'm saying.

The last game of the season was impacted by the inability to stop the run. Passing became a priority just to keep up with the scoring. Even then, Gaffney lit it up and Lloyd had a big day as well.

Nevertheless...I did say in another post that orton would probably be more to blame than Marshall for the imbalance in numbers. i sgree with you there

[TXBRONC]

The last game of the season was impacted by the inability to stop the run. Passing became a priority just to keep up with the scoring. Even then, Gaffney lit it up and Lloyd had a big day as well.

Nevertheless...I did say in another post that orton would probably be more to blame than Marshall for the imbalance in numbers. i sgree with you there

Gaffney lit up against a bad secondary and even at that his numbers didn't produce points.

[CoachChaz]

Gaffney lit up against a bad secondary and even at that his numbers didn't produce points.

I dont recall anyone complaining when Marshall was catching 100 balls and only scoring 6 or 7 TD's and disappearing in the red zone.

Actually, I do. Funny how that is all forgotten and the quality play of other guys stepping it up is brushed aside for the same reasons.

[TXBRONC]

I dont recall anyone complaining when Marshall was catching 100 balls and only scoring 6 or 7 TD's and disappearing in the red zone.

Actually, I do. Funny how that is all forgotten and the quality play of other guys stepping it up is brushed aside for the same reasons.

Some people complained how Cutler was prone to turning the ball over in the red zone and some how that wont effect the production of other players. Some people are hypocrites and really don't any better answers then to been a smart ass.

[CoachChaz]

Some people complained how Cutler was prone to turning the ball over in the red zone and some how that wont effect the production of other players. Some people are hypocrites and really don't any better answers then to been a smart ass.

Wouldnt calling someone a hypocrite for having smartass answers by saying it in a smartass answer be the definition of hipocrisy?

Just curious

[Poet]

Wouldnt calling someone a hypocrite for having smartass answers by saying it in a smartass answer be the definition of hipocrisy?

Just curious

No, but it'd be a good example of it.

Since I said that in a smartass way, is that ironic, hypocritical or both?

[Northman]

I dont recall anyone complaining when Marshall was catching 100 balls and only scoring 6 or 7 TD's and disappearing in the red zone.

Actually, I do. Funny how that is all forgotten and the quality play of other guys stepping it up is brushed aside for the same reasons.

My only problem with comparing Gaffney to Marshall is Marshall does it on a consistant basis whereas Gaffney does not. If Gaffney can do that on a consistant basis and against better defenses than we can have this discussion. Right now, Gaffney is nowhere in Marshall's hemisphere.

[SOCALORADO.]

Enough with the orangemane/broncomania shit.
Can that stuff and get back on topic.

[SOCALORADO.]

My only problem with comparing Gaffney to Marshall is Marshall does it on a consistant basis whereas Gaffney does not. If Gaffney can do that on a consistant basis and against better defenses than we can have this discussion. Right now, Gaffney is nowhere in Marshall's hemisphere.

Agreed.
I just dont see Gaffney going up over defenders and bringing down balls like a beast, super-freak!

[CoachChaz]

I wont say Gaffney will replicate Marshall's numbers, but given the chance, I think he could catch 85 for 1200. Always being behind bigger named receivers hasnt exactly afforded himopportunity to showcase anything.

[Nomad]

If we give up Maualuga I will probably hang myself. That guy is going to end up being our MLB of the future and he's already the heart and soul of the defense. If Cincinnati made this trade I wouldn't want them to give up the farm on Marshall.

.

Just got to teach Maualuga, NO MORE DUIs!!;)

[SOCALORADO.]

Just got to teach Maualuga, NO MORE DUIs!!;)

Did he get a DUI since going to CIN?

[Nomad]

Did he get a DUI since going to CIN?

____________________________

Maualuga arrested for DUI
Posted by Mike Florio on January 29, 2010 8:01 AM ET
Just as the "day without an arrest" meter crept back into double digits, there's been another incident.

Bengals linebacker Rey Maualuga was arrested Friday morning for DUI and careless in Kentucky. (Thanks to Mo Egger of 1530 Homer for the head's up.)

It's unknown whether the field sobriety test included asking Maualuga to correctly spell his own name

[TXBRONC]

I wont say Gaffney will replicate Marshall's numbers, but given the chance, I think he could catch 85 for 1200. Always being behind bigger named receivers hasnt exactly afforded himopportunity to showcase anything.

That is factually wrong. Gaffney was a starter when he was with the Texans. In that time he would gather in about 40 passes, about 500 receiving yards and about 2 touchdowns per year. And when he went to New England who were the big name receivers that were ahead of him?

[CoachChaz]

That is factually wrong. Gaffney was a starter when he was with the Texans. In that time he would gather in about 40 passes, about 500 receiving yards and about 2 touchdowns per year. And when he went to New England who were the big name receivers that were ahead of him?

In 2002 he was a rookie with David Carr. In 2003, Andre Johnson was on the roster. in 2006, he went to a new system in NE. A year later some guy named Randy Moss came to town. 2009, he goes to Denver to play behind Marshall. Oddly enough he sets a career high in receiving yards when he plays with Marshall.

So, please...tell me when he's ever even had to be a primary target while playing with Johnson, Moss and Marshall. I'm not advocating that he is the next great thing. Just saying he is capable of performing when he has to...he's just never had to.

So I guess it's not "factually" wrong now is it?

[TXBRONC]

In 2002 he was a rookie with David Carr. In 2003, Andre Johnson was on the roster. in 2006, he went to a new system in NE. A year later some guy named Randy Moss came to town. 2009, he goes to Denver to play behind Marshall. Oddly enough he sets a career high in receiving yards when he plays with Marshall.

So, please...tell me when he's ever even had to be a primary target while playing with Johnson, Moss and Marshall. I'm not advocating that he is the next great thing. Just saying he is capable of performing when he has to...he's just never had to.

So I guess it's not "factually" wrong now is it?

No you"re still factually wrong. Because what you ignore is that he was starter in Houston and still only averaged medicore numbers. Royal as rookie had 91 catches nearly 1000 yards receiving and five touchdowns as the number two receiver. Also while you're being smartass about Moss you failed to mention that the same year Moss went to New England and other no receiver by the name of Wes Welker. Obviously he wasn't going to start ahead of Moss but being the number two receiver doesn't mean you can't put good numbers. He had year's experience on Welker yet Welker started ahead of him. By the way whose lead the Patriots in receiving the last three years? It's been Welker the number two receiver. One good game does not mean he can for it 16 games.

He has several starts under his belt but he's never an effective starter for an entire season. He is what he's is a solid thrid or fourth option.

[claymore]

FA's are FA's for a reason.

[Nomad]

FA's are FA's for a reason.

Either they're asking too much or they're not what the team's looking for or they're not that good!! Does that cover it??

[CoachChaz]

No you"re still are factually wrong. Because what you ignore is that he was starter in Houston and still only averaged medicore numbers. Royal as rookie had 91 catches nearly 1000 yards receiving and five touchdowns as the number two receiver. Also while you're being smartass about Moss you failed to mention that the same year Moss went to New England and other no receiver by the name of Wes Welker. Obviously he wasn't going to start ahead of Moss but being the number two receiver doesn't mean you can't put good numbers. He had year's experience on Welker yet Welker started ahead of him. By the way whose lead the Patriots in receiving the last three years? It's been Welker the number two receiver. One good game does not mean he can for it 16 games.

He has several starts under his belt but he's never an effective starter for an entire season. He is what he's is a solid thrid or fourth option.

You win. I'm tired of arguing with people that look at numbers and compare them to exceptions without ever watching a game, who dont comprehend the difference between a slot and possession receiver and expect miracles from all rookies

So I concede. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL JABAR GAFFNEY EVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN A # 3 OR #4 OPTION BECAUSE TXBRONC SAYS SO.

Happy?

[TXBRONC]

You win. I'm tired of arguing with people that look at numbers and compare them to exceptions without ever watching a game, who dont comprehend the difference between a slot and possession receiver and expect miracles from all rookies

So I concede. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL JABAR GAFFNEY EVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN A # 3 OR #4 OPTION BECAUSE TXBRONC SAYS SO.

Happy?

Grow up.

What part Gaffney has been a starter in this League do you not get? Apparently you're the one that lacks comprehension.

Now we're done.

[claymore]

Either they're asking too much or they're not what the team's looking for or they're not that good!! Does that cover it??

Pretty much, and if they are asking more than their originating team is willing to pay then that says they arent worth it.

Very few FA's ever make it IMO. I know their are cases... but your everyday scrub FA that just walks usually doesnt blow it up on his next team.

[TXBRONC]

Pretty much, and if they are asking more than their originating team is willing to pay then that says they arent worth it.

Very few FA's ever make it IMO. I know their are cases... but your everyday scrub FA that just walks usually doesnt blow it up on his next team.

True not everyone can do what Wes Welker did.

[claymore]

True not everyone can do what Wes Welker did.

They traded a 2nd for Welker. To me it shows how bad they wanted him. So as bad ass as he is he still wasnt a FA.

[TXBRONC]

They traded a 2nd for Welker. To me it shows how bad they wanted him. So as bad ass as he is he still wasnt a FA.

That is true, but up to that point what had Welker accomplished?

[Poet]

They traded a 2nd for Welker. To me it shows how bad they wanted him. So as bad ass as he is he still wasnt a FA.

He was a restricted free agent. The Phins opted to not match the offer sheet if I remember correctly. He was really a FA signing.

[CoachChaz]

Grow up.

What part Gaffney has been a starter in this League do you not get? Apparently you're the one that lacks comprehension.

Now we're done.

Glad your decision is the final one. Thanks.

I will now admit that being a rookie starter on a team with an established offense (Royal, Jackson) is equivalent to being a rookie starter on an expansion team with a rookie QB. That suddenly makes sense now.

I'll also admit that playing in a spread offense or any offense with a dominant receiver is no excuse for not putting up very big numbers.

Thank you for pointing that out to me. I guess knowing the game doesnt mean anything when you know the stats. I feel more informed now

[CoachChaz]

Yeah...Free Agents are useless. Guys like Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Drew Brees, John Lynch, Priest Holmes, Rich Gannon, Curtis Martin, Steve Hutchinson, etc...did nothing for their new teams.

[Poet]

Yeah...Free Agents are useless. Guys like Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Drew Brees, John Lynch, Priest Holmes, Rich Gannon, Curtis Martin, Steve Hutchinson, etc...did nothing for their new teams.

Yup. You just have to have the restraint to target the right ones. The Redskins go nuts on everyone and rarely make a good FA signing (Haynesworth), and the Saints rarely get a big name FA but when they do it's a huge hit (Brees).

[TXBRONC]

Glad your decision is the final one. Thanks.

I will now admit that being a rookie starter on a team with an established offense (Royal, Jackson) is equivalent to being a rookie starter on an expansion team with a rookie QB. That suddenly makes sense now.

I'll also admit that playing in a spread offense or any offense with a dominant receiver is no excuse for not putting up very big numbers.

Thank you for pointing that out to me. I guess knowing the game doesnt mean anything when you know the stats. I feel more informed now

Being a pee wee football coach doesn't mean you know ish about the game.

[Poet]

Being a pee wee football coach doesn't mean you know ish about the game.

I'd take Coach over most fans and a lot of the talking heads.

[CoachChaz]

Being a pee wee football coach doesn't mean you know ish about the game.

I dont recall ever comparing anything I've ever done with kids to the college or pro game. hell, i've never even compared the high school scouting I did with the pro game. but I sure as hell aint going to rely upon stats or sportswriters opinions or watching a game or two a week to make an argument for a players abilities. ALOT more goes into it than that.


And all this because I said that I thought Gaffney was CAPABLE of 85 and 1200 in this offense if he were the primary. Amazing

[claymore]

He was a restricted free agent. The Phins opted to not match the offer sheet if I remember correctly. He was really a FA signing.
They traded a 2nd and a 7th rounder for him.

Yeah...Free Agents are useless. Guys like Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Drew Brees, John Lynch, Priest Holmes, Rich Gannon, Curtis Martin, Steve Hutchinson, etc...did nothing for their new teams.
Now start naming all the flops. It would take a couple of pages.

[claymore]

That is true, but up to that point what had Welker accomplished?

I dont remember to be honest, I know he was a division opponent, and they had 2 games a year to see him live. And he filled 2 roles and was young. I think his return skills were more coveted at the time.

[Poet]

I dont remember to be honest, I know he was a division opponent, and they had 2 games a year to see him live. And he filled 2 roles and was young. I think his return skills were more coveted at the time.

I checked, he was a trade.

I recall BB saying that they got Welker and Sammy Morris because they both were Patriot killers.

[TXBRONC]

I dont recall ever comparing anything I've ever done with kids to the college or pro game. hell, i've never even compared the high school scouting I did with the pro game. but I sure as hell aint going to rely upon stats or sportswriters opinions or watching a game or two a week to make an argument for a players abilities. ALOT more goes into it than that.


And all this because I said that I thought Gaffney was CAPABLE of 85 and 1200 in this offense if he were the primary. Amazing

Yeah and your pissy attitude is only because I disagree with you. You have nothing more at your disposal to make your opinion than I do. In fact what have you offered to support your opinion? Nothing that I recall seeing.

Now with that I'm going to try and let it go. If you have to have the last word then so be it.

[claymore]

I checked, he was a trade.

I recall BB saying that they got Welker and Sammy Morris because they both were Patriot killers.

From what I remember it was a pretty classy move, the patriots could have poison pilled it somehow, and decided to trade instead of starting an player scalping war or whatever.

[nevcraw]

I wont say Gaffney will replicate Marshall's numbers, but given the chance, I think he could catch 85 for 1200. Always being behind bigger named receivers hasnt exactly afforded himopportunity to showcase anything.

Dude has been in the league for 8 years.. I'm not sure his depth chart deficiencies can be blamed for his lack of stardom.. there MUST be another answer..

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Always being behind bigger named receivers hasnt exactly afforded himopportunity to showcase anything.

So what was his excuse his 1st year in NE? It was him and Reche Caldwell...PERIOD! Branch and Givens were gone. No "big name WRs" hogging all the catches in one of the most WR friendly offenses of all time! That offense made David Givens and Deion Branch PRO-BOWLERS AND HOUSEHOLD NAMES!

It was because of Gaffney and Caldwell that the Pats immediately traded for Welker and Moss that next offseason. That tells me EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW. Period.

[TXBRONC]

Dude has been in the league for 8 years.. I'm not sure his depth chart deficiencies can be blamed for his lack of stardom.. there MUST be another answer..

He's had opportunity to start in the League and he didn't do a lot with it. Some people are using one game as justification that all of the sudden Gaffney is star in waiting. He provides good depth as a third or fourth option. But I haven't seen anything that would indicate he's capable of putting up 80 or more catches and 1200 yards receiving.

[TXBRONC]

So what was his excuse his 1st year in NE? It was him and Reche Caldwell...PERIOD! Branch and Givens were gone. No "big name WRs" hogging all the catches in one of the most WR friendly offenses of all time! That offense made David Givens and Deion Branch PRO-BOWLERS AND HOUSEHOLD NAMES!

It was because of Gaffney and Caldwell that the Pats immediately traded for Welker and Moss that next offseason. That tells me EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW. Period.

Exactly, Belicheck was so impressed with him that went out after the '06 season and brought in Welker and Moss. As I've said he's a good role player but I don't being able to replace the kind production we've gotten out Marshall.

[Ravage!!!]

He's had opportunity to start in the League and he didn't do a lot with it. Some people are using one game as justification that all of the sudden Gaffney is star in waiting. He provides good depth as a third or fourth option. I haven't seen anything would indicate he's capable of putting up 80 or more catches and 1200 yards receiving.

agreed... I've seen NOTHING that would indicate he's simply going to step into the place.

[TXBRONC]

agreed... I've seen NOTHING that would indicate he's simply going to step into the place.

Assuming that Marshall is gone it's more than like going be two years before we know McDaniels has adequately replaced Marshall's production.

[T.K.O.]

i wonder if singletary is at all interested in marshall?
he has the temperment to keep marshall in line and i never saw him hugging vernon davis on the sidelines.....so
maybe we could get davis and a 3rd for bm:confused:

[arapaho2]

He's had opportunity to start in the League and he didn't do a lot with it. Some people are using one game as justification that all of the sudden Gaffney is star in waiting. He provides good depth as a third or fourth option. But I haven't seen anything would indicate he's capable of putting up 80 or more catches and 1200 yards receiving.

and not surprisenly..most of the ones believeing one game proves gaffney is capable of being a top wr...are the ones saying hillis didnt prove anything in his five starts

[T.K.O.]

hillis is a beast,and once he( and coach ) figures out what his role should be, he can contribute as a fb or rb , but obviously there were reasons why he was used so little last season,aside from the fact that we had bucky playing great when healthy and giving our #12 pick as many carries as possible(to groom him for taking over the #1 rb spot which is why he was drafted)
should be interesting to see if he can make some noise in tc and preseason
and secure a spot on the roster.
i like hillis and we need guys that play with heart...he does !

[DenBronx]

hillis is a beast,and once he( and coach ) figures out what his role should be, he can contribute as a fb or rb , but obviously there were reasons why he was used so little last season,aside from the fact that we had bucky playing great when healthy and giving our #12 pick as many carries as possible(to groom him for taking over the #1 rb spot which is why he was drafted)
should be interesting to see if he can make some noise in tc and preseason
and secure a spot on the roster.
i like hillis and we need guys that play with heart...he does !


are you saying marshall doesnt play with heart? i'm pretty sure other than mcdaniels ego there was a reason hillis got beat out by a career backup and a rookie. without marshall our offense would be pretty sad. if any player on our team plays with heart it's marshall.

and...i could care less about him slipping on a paper bag or hitting the door of a cab driver. he showed up on game day time and time again and never got paid.

[T.K.O.]

are you saying marshall doesnt play with heart? i'm pretty sure other than mcdaniels ego there was a reason hillis got beat out by a career backup and a rookie. without marshall our offense would be pretty sad. if any player on our team plays with heart it's marshall.

and...i could care less about him slipping on a paper bag or hitting the door of a cab driver. he showed up on game day time and time again and never got paid.

no....i think marshall loves the game and plays "balls to the wall" when he plays,but if his "HEART" is not in staying with the team it would be a bad idea to try and force the issue.
buckhalter played very well and we invested alot in moreno and have to give him the chance to prove himself.
hillis had some chances and didnt impress.....so if he can adapt to the new system and find his niche....great if not,no biggy !

[TXBRONC]

hillis is a beast,and once he( and coach ) figures out what his role should be, he can contribute as a fb or rb , but obviously there were reasons why he was used so little last season,aside from the fact that we had bucky playing great when healthy and giving our #12 pick as many carries as possible(to groom him for taking over the #1 rb spot which is why he was drafted)
should be interesting to see if he can make some noise in tc and preseason
and secure a spot on the roster.
i like hillis and we need guys that play with heart...he does !

There are always a reason/reasons for why a player is playing or not playing. But I don't had anything to do with McDaniels being dumbfounded about what kind of role Hillis should play.

[Lonestar]

hillis is a beast,and once he( and coach ) figures out what his role should be, he can contribute as a fb or rb , but obviously there were reasons why he was used so little last season,aside from the fact that we had bucky playing great when healthy and giving our #12 pick as many carries as possible(to groom him for taking over the #1 rb spot which is why he was drafted)
should be interesting to see if he can make some noise in tc and preseason
and secure a spot on the roster.
i like hillis and we need guys that play with heart...he does !

If the rumors were true about Bobby having the say on who played or did not. makes more sense to why hills was not on the field. last year we had to go through 6 of them before they decided he was worth looking at.

IMO Hillis is the perfect Kevin Faulk, a pass catching RB that can get the tough yards when you need him.

I suspect that Hillis will get touches this coming year since bobby moved on. Unless they can get a really good draft choice for him, getting rid of him makes no sense as he is on a really cheap rookie contract.

AS mike used to say you can never have enough RB's because we all know that it is a rare guy that plays all games during a season and if they do they wear down do to over use.

[DenBronx]

maybe it was bobby turner and not mcdaniels. never thought of that until now. i was kinda hoping for a smash and dash type combo. hillis fits the smash part but no one really fits the dash (chris johnson, felix jones, deangelo williams) role. it would suck to see hillis traded or cut. i want to see him more involved next year.

[rcsodak]

he didnt but he did give up tons of big plays allowing teams to score in the red zone.

links?

[CrazyHorse]

Marshall for Quinn then draft Dez Bryant!

[Lonestar]

maybe it was bobby turner and not mcdaniels. never thought of that until now. i was kinda hoping for a smash and dash type combo. hillis fits the smash part but no one really fits the dash (chris johnson, felix jones, deangelo williams) role. it would suck to see hillis traded or cut. i want to see him more involved next year.

After reading that article about BT it stated that this year in particular BT was the one that told Josh who to play, who was ready, prepared and knew the game plan.

I'm guessing that he also had a big say in the past on who saw reps in practice, therefore HIllis being big, not fast, not a one cut runner and maybe even white. did not get the reps he needed.

Does anyone really believe that Larsen was chosen for his RB skills to move to FB. I think he was another mike conversion project, like we have seen in the past, TE Lepsis to OT as one of his more famous moves.

I have said it many times, this guy is our Kevin Faulk, above avenge in weight , can pound the tough yards and has great hands. I suspect almost everyone has thought about why was he not used this year, because of the ONE fumble on Kick off duty?

Someone had to be whispering into Joshes ear that he was either dumb as a rock and was not getting the playbook, had a bad attitude in the film room, was sleeping with joshes wife or liked little boys.

There was not coherent reason for not getting some touches during the year. Especially when Moreno was hitting the rookie wall.


Notice I said SOME touches. I did not EVEN hint he should be starting over Moreno just giving him a breather in a couple of games.

[arapaho2]

After reading that article about BT it stated that this year in particular BT was the one that told Josh who to play, who was ready, prepared and knew the game plan.

I'm guessing that he also had a big say in the past on who saw reps in practice, therefore HIllis being big, not fast, not a one cut runner and maybe even white. did not get the reps he needed.

Does anyone really believe that Larsen was chosen for his RB skills to move to FB. I think he was another mike conversion project, like we have seen in the past, TE Lepsis to OT as one of his more famous moves.

I have said it many times, this guy is our Kevin Faulk, above avenge in weight , can pound the tough yards and has great hands. I suspect almost everyone has thought about why was he not used this year, because of the ONE fumble on Kick off duty?

Someone had to be whispering into Joshes ear that he was either dumb as a rock and was not getting the playbook, had a bad attitude in the film room, was sleeping with joshes wife or liked little boys.

There was not coherent reason for not getting some touches during the year. Especially when Moreno was hitting the rookie wall.


Notice I said SOME touches. I did not EVEN hint he should be starting over Moreno just giving him a breather in a couple of games.

i seriously doubt turner a long time bronco coach would sit hillis just cause he didnt like him or whatever....for all intents and purposes..shannies sytem is lightyears above mcds in being complicated and hillis as a rookie caught on just fine

a well coached set of rbs that can be plugged in without missing a beat speaks highly of a rb coach..why would BT screw with his legecy?

i say it still leads more to mcd in his youth made a rookie mistake by insisting his guys play no matter what..the BT didnt like hillis or he was stupid or not prepared

mcd wanted his weapons to fit his scheme...a master of the offense wants a scheme that compliments his weapons

just as mcd stated in the seasons last report..hes gotta do a better job of getting royal involved next year...instead of tweaking his offense to fit the skill set of the talent or to utilize players like hillis and royal...he expected his talent to tweak thier skill set to fit into his offense..and other then marshall it didnt work

[underrated29]

Josh has said publicly that peyton hillis does not fit the mold of what RB he likes and likes to run with.....


Thats all you need to know. Turner has nothing to do with him not playing. Hillis does not fit our new scheme in mCd eyes and thats where the train stops.

[claymore]

Josh has said publicly that peyton hillis does not fit the mold of what RB he likes and likes to run with.....


Thats all you need to know. Turner has nothing to do with him not playing. Hillis does not fit our new scheme in mCd eyes and thats where the train stops.

JMCD has to get so tired of all the questions about a 7th round pick, 3rd string FB and 4th string RB.

[Lonestar]

Josh has said publicly that peyton hillis does not fit the mold of what RB he likes and likes to run with.....


Thats all you need to know. Turner has nothing to do with him not playing. Hillis does not fit our new scheme in mCd eyes and thats where the train stops.


HE also said in his EOY presser that he liked him and he would get a very good look next year to use his talents.

That sounded to me that he saw something in him, but was told differently by his position coach, probably one of the reasons he did not fight real hard to keep bobby.

You can believe what you want about Hillis but he would indeed be our Kevin Fualk

[HORSEPOWER 56]

HE also said in his EOY presser that he liked him and he would get a very good look next year to use his talents.

That sounded to me that he saw something in him, but was told differently by his position coach, probably one of the reasons he did not fight real hard to keep bobby.

You can believe what you want about Hillis but he would indeed be our Kevin Fualk

If Hillis wasn't making peanuts for a paycheck right now, he'd already be gone. McDaniels didn't even try to use Hillis. Buck was hurt, Moreno was tired, and Jordan was terrible and still he wouldn't let Hillis get involved. Spin it however you want, but Hillis will NEVER be a factor on this team as long as McDaniels is the HC.

[underrated29]

Kevin faulk is a fast shifty runner. Not exactly the bruiser that hillis is. He can still pound it dont get me wrong, but I think the player comparison is off.


I still do not get why we dont use him, but Josh said what he said, after TC, after pre season, but during reg season if I have my time frame correct. Remember he did have hillis in at returner first game of the year- or second or whichever, but then after fumbles and such he was no where to be seen.

[nevcraw]

HE also said in his EOY presser that he liked him and he would get a very good look next year to use his talents.

That sounded to me that he saw something in him, but was told differently by his position coach, probably one of the reasons he did not fight real hard to keep bobby.

You can believe what you want about Hillis but he would indeed be our Kevin Fualk

LOL.. you have got to be kidding me... do you believe the dookie you sling, or is it just to cause a stir?? Now - you have the great Bobby Turner poisining the waters btween Hillis and MCD. The same position coach who played him through the best running game stretch until the wheels fell off the year before.
shameful dude.. shameful.. The extent the MCD over-aplogists will go to not let him be responsible for any possible mistake..

[TXBRONC]

LOL.. you have got to be kidding me... do you believe the dookie you sling, or is it just to cause a stir?? Now - you have the great Bobby Turner poisining the waters btween Hillis and MCD. The same position coach who played him through the best running game stretch until the wheels fell off the year before.
shameful dude.. shameful.. The extent the MCD over-aplogists will go to not let him be responsible for any possible mistake..

Nah it's hypocritical. Let's look at the logic (if you can call it logic) McDaniels let Turner walk because he likes Hillis so he let a position coach bury the guy the on bench for the vast majority of the year even when we really could have used him. In other words the boss was taking his marching the employee.

[claymore]

Nah it's hypocritical. Let's look at the logic (if you can call it logic) McDaniels let Turner walk because he likes Hillis so he let a position coach bury the guy the on bench for the vast majority of the year even when we really could have used him. In other words the boss was taking his marching the employee.

And Hillis is White. Turner that racist SOB.

[arapaho2]

HE also said in his EOY presser that he liked him and he would get a very good look next year to use his talents.

That sounded to me that he saw something in him, but was told differently by his position coach, probably one of the reasons he did not fight real hard to keep bobby.

You can believe what you want about Hillis but he would indeed be our Kevin Fualk


sounds more like a classic back peddle...he said the same thing about royal....so do you think the wrs coach...told him not to include royal in the passing game???

its a pack peddle..he knows the offense may have been helped by useing royal and hillis...so to appease the masses he suddenly wants to include them next year

its all on the HC..if he seen hillis's talent...he shoulda used him...he chose not to

[T.K.O.]

in mcD's defense,he had little time to install his scheme,decide who would be used in it and get the 1st team all the reps in the new system that he could.
he had a proven back (bucky) and a #12 pick who looked like a stud coming in.after the 6-0 start there was no reason to "mix things up too much"
maybe he stuck with some guys too long,maybe not.
again hillis did'nt exactly "light it up" when given his shots.
he is at least saying he will have more time to evaluate his current roster and players available through fa and the draft. so i expect that if hillis is all that he will be able to prove his worth to the staff this offseason and get a shot at the starting line-up.
i expect better things out of moreno next year (and so does coach )so dont be too surprised if hillis is either traded or warms the pine alot next year.:salute:

[arapaho2]

in mcD's defense,he had little time to install his scheme,decide who would be used in it and get the 1st team all the reps in the new system that he could.
he had a proven back (bucky) and a #12 pick who looked like a stud coming in.after the 6-0 start there was no reason to "mix things up too much"
maybe he stuck with some guys too long,maybe not.
again hillis did'nt exactly "light it up" when given his shots.
he is at least saying he will have more time to evaluate his current roster and players available through fa and the draft. so i expect that if hillis is all that he will be able to prove his worth to the staff this offseason and get a shot at the starting line-up.
i expect better things out of moreno next year (and so does coach )so dont be too surprised if hillis is either traded or warms the pine alot next year.:salute:

what shots was he given?....it takes a rb more then one carry to get in the groove...you should know this...because he got stuffed on a full back lead dont mean he was given shots