PDA

View Full Version : McDaniels: "Im Not Hard To Work With"



WARHORSE
01-24-2010, 05:44 AM
From the Post:


• The perception that McDaniels is difficult to work with. "I think it's a mistake," McDaniels said. "The same person people liked when we were 6-0 is the same person that's sitting in that chair in that office who's now 8-8. We've gone through adversity, and there's been some issues. I didn't change what I was doing. I didn't change how I was coaching. I didn't change how I was conducting meetings.
"The bottom line is once we get everything going in the right direction with all the right people, this is the philosophy that absolutely works. I've seen it.
"You're right: People want to say things, but no, I'm not hard to work with. The 99 percent of people I work with and get along with very well, they know what the heck is going on inside the Denver Broncos' building. People who have had an issue with me, or I've had an issue with, there's a reason. I'm not going to let things happen that shouldn't happen. If that's what people want, then maybe we disagree."


• Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.
"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14256207#ixzz0dWe1GqNv

WARHORSE
01-24-2010, 05:48 AM
One thing sounds clear to me.


McDaniels is not going to let anyone else get credit for the defense other than himself.

Hes saying....I did that. I made the defensive team what it is today......not Nolan.


And one things for sure..............after this year..........thats surely what will be said. So lets hope McD is a stud defensive minded butt kicker.

Lonestar
01-24-2010, 06:01 AM
Sorry I did not read that from his comments.

I read that once he gets TEAM players on board this TEAM is going to play well.

He has seen his "vision" work before and sees no reason he can't make it work here. That is what I saw in the intial post.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Mr D
01-24-2010, 06:28 AM
One thing sounds clear to me.


McDaniels is not going to let anyone else get credit for the defense other than himself.

Hes saying....I did that. I made the defensive team what it is today......not Nolan.


And one things for sure..............after this year..........thats surely what will be said. So lets hope McD is a stud defensive minded butt kicker.

How the hell did you interpret that from those quotes?


The perception that McDaniels is difficult to work with. "I think it's a mistake," McDaniels said. "The same person people liked when we were 6-0 is the same person that's sitting in that chair in that office who's now 8-8. We've gone through adversity, and there's been some issues. I didn't change what I was doing. I didn't change how I was coaching. I didn't change how I was conducting meetings.

He was asked a question about himself, so why would he answer with WE? But that doesn't matter, let's continue....


"The bottom line is once we get everything going in the right direction with all the right people, this is the philosophy that absolutely works. I've seen it.
"You're right: People want to say things, but no, I'm not hard to work with. The 99 percent of people I work with and get along with very well, they know what the heck is going on inside the Denver Broncos' building. People who have had an issue with me, or I've had an issue with, there's a reason. I'm not going to let things happen that shouldn't happen. If that's what people want, then maybe we disagree."

Again - he was asked a question ABOUT himself...what do you expect? He's defending himself from the critics, you can't see that?

About the defense...


Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.
"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."


Some of you people...:rolleyes: He never referred to anything about the defense as solely his accomplishment... WTF are you saying?

gnomeflinger
01-24-2010, 09:01 AM
Everyone thinks they're not hard to work with.

elsid13
01-24-2010, 09:20 AM
Everyone thinks they're not hard to work with.

exactly. Just like 99.9% of the folks involved in auto accident believe it was the other guys fault.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-24-2010, 09:34 AM
"The bottom line is once we get everything going in the right direction with all the right people, this is the philosophy that absolutely works. I've seen it."




This is the most important statement in the entire article. The funny thing is, it holds true for EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. If I was a head coach who could get ALL the people I wanted to play and coach my team, I'd win a superbowl every year. This is an extremely arrogant and naive statement. The job of the HC is to win with what he's got. No coach gets everything he wants in the way of personnel.

NO SHIT JOSH! Anyone can win with "all the right people"! Because this is unattainable in the NFL, this statement alone tells me that no matter what, Josh will always use this as an excuse for failure if he does in fact fail. "I just don't have all the right people around me, therefore, it's someone else's fault."

It may not even be what he meant, but it's absolutely what he said which displays once again his lack of experience and maturity. Every time this guy opens his mouth to the press, he puts his foot in it and makes the organization look bad, too.

Nomad
01-24-2010, 09:51 AM
I, for one, don't want to be a foreman or general foreman on a jobsite because I lack experience on how to run a job, not how to do my job, but how to run a job. I have meet guys who are new journeyman and all they want is their own job to run and if an 'old timer' (guy with decades of experience) come to give advice, they gets all pissy even though they are doing it all wrong. And yes, we all want to help out our buddies regardless. This applies to all jobs and even coaching!

I don't know what Mcdaniels mindset is or what goes on at Dove Valley or if he is a micro-manager and wants things his way (who wouldn't), but this could well be the scenerio. Oh well, it's his team and he has the time to prove he is making all the right moves and knows how to run a football team, and if he's not, then he'll be looking for another job. I'm rooting for him to be making all the right moves and have the BRONCOS back to their winning ways!!

SR
01-24-2010, 11:01 AM
Pretty good analogy Nomad.

What irks me is that yeah, Nolan is a good DC and we got rid of him, but just because he's a household name doesn't mean he was RIGHT for OUR team. If McD is trying to get the RIGHT people in to make the TEAM better, then I've got no complaints. I've still got faith. I doubt McD wants to lose. As long as he is making changes for the better and not for his own personal gain, which most of you here seem to like to think that's the case, then I'm good with it.

claymore
01-24-2010, 11:07 AM
He may never be able to get all of his"team players" he needs to be able to win with stars that have egos as well.

He has seen this philosophy work with Tom Brady at the helm. Lets see how Orton does with shit recievers, and our defense does without Nolan and Belichick, and seymour and wilfork, and, and, and/.//////

Lonestar
01-24-2010, 12:09 PM
What folks fail to realize is that NE has consistently won games with NON ME players.

They have taken castoffs that wanted to win more than huge paychecks. They are fairly compensated but with the exception of perhaps Brady few are bank breakers. And Brady was not a hotshot QB when he stepped on the field. I doubt that he'd still be in the league had he been drafted into a less QB friendly team and had been forced into playing without KNOWING the playbook first.

To further that theme IIRC he was the only player that did not have OJT exprience. No one else had to learn it at the same time as he did.

Everyone else was dailed into it.

Which is a HUGE difference than our situation.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

claymore
01-24-2010, 12:17 PM
What folks fail to realize is that NE has consistently won games with NON ME players.

They have taken castoffs that wanted to win more than huge paychecks. They are fairly compensated but with the exception of perhaps Brady few are bank breakers. And Brady was not a hotshot QB when he stepped on the field. I doubt that he'd still be in the league had he been drafted into a less QB friendly team and had been forced into playing without KNOWING the playbook first.

To further that theme IIRC he was the only player that did not have OJT exprience. No one else had to learn it at the same time as he did.

Everyone else was dailed into it.

Which is a HUGE difference than our situation.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
Same can be said about TD. But both players made it, made it big.

Like I said, Id like to see the system work without Brady Seymour, wilfork, etc...

That team first system doesnt waste 1st rd draft picks on 2nd round players either, nor do they mortgage the future for today.

elsid13
01-24-2010, 12:28 PM
What folks fail to realize is that NE has consistently won games with NON ME players.

They have taken castoffs that wanted to win more than huge paychecks. They are fairly compensated but with the exception of perhaps Brady few are bank breakers. And Brady was not a hotshot QB when he stepped on the field. I doubt that he'd still be in the league had he been drafted into a less QB friendly team and had been forced into playing without KNOWING the playbook first.

To further that theme IIRC he was the only player that did not have OJT exprience. No one else had to learn it at the same time as he did.

Everyone else was dailed into it.

Which is a HUGE difference than our situation.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Your making it sound like NE took a bunch of scrub off the street and turned them into the little engine the could. That not the case, they have had a lot of talent which is why they were successful. They do/did have "me" players on that team, but they keep it in house and Belicheat has very strict media lock.

dogfish
01-24-2010, 12:35 PM
amazing-- this is a GREAT example of how everyone hears what they want to hear. . .

it wouldn't matter if JMFMCD said "this isn't about me, i'm just trying to put a great staff in place because i need all the help i can get," "this is MY team and anyone who doesn't toe the line and bow before my genius can get the hell out," or "i like cabbage". . . .

the exact same people would be lining up to either criticise or defend him. . .

Lonestar
01-24-2010, 12:39 PM
Yes they took some ME players that just wanted to win a TEAM ring.
As for Josh trading picks last year. Probably a mistake but only time will tell for sure.

If he does it again this year then I'll get excited about it. But frankly hardly the first time we have seen first day debacles. If that is what it was, so far no one but a few haters have made it a capitol offense.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

claymore
01-24-2010, 12:55 PM
Yes they took some ME players that just wanted to win a TEAM ring.
As for Josh trading picks last year. Probably a mistake but only time will tell for sure.

If he does it again this year then I'll get excited about it. But frankly hardly the first time we have seen first day debacles. If that is what it was, so far no one but a few haters have made it a capitol offense.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Everyone knows Draft day is a crap shoot. THe problem people have with the smith trade is that JMCD made it twice the gamble on a player we already had in JMFW (Slow short CB).

Nomad
01-24-2010, 12:56 PM
Everyone knows Draft day is a crap shoot..

Yes it is!!

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:04 PM
One thing sounds clear to me.


McDaniels is not going to let anyone else get credit for the defense other than himself.

Hes saying....I did that. I made the defensive team what it is today......not Nolan.


And one things for sure..............after this year..........thats surely what will be said. So lets hope McD is a stud defensive minded butt kicker.


Im ok with those statements. But like you said lets hope he can back it up. His ass is on the line and thats the way it should be. If he fails to do better than last year he may get the hook early.

NightTrainLayne
01-24-2010, 01:09 PM
Everyone knows Draft day is a crap shoot. THe problem people have with the smith trade is that JMCD made it twice the gamble on a player we already had in JMFW (Slow short CB).

Smith is slow now?

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:09 PM
Pretty good analogy Nomad.

What irks me is that yeah, Nolan is a good DC and we got rid of him, but just because he's a household name doesn't mean he was RIGHT for OUR team.

I dont know how you can judge that after one year. I keep pointing back to the individuals who say that McDaniels deserves more than one year to prove himself. Ok, im fine with that. But why does that not then apply to Nolan? Nolan to me proved his worth this year with the lack of talent on the Dline that he had to work with. Unfortuantely, we saw this kind of behavior from Shanahan down the line when every year he was swapping out DC's and using them for scapegoats. At some point you have to allow the players and coach himself to get his players and form a bond and chemistry so that the system works. The fact that Nolan was able to make wine out of water tells me that McD jumped the gun without giving Nolan a chance to get "his" guys in place for his defense.

spikerman
01-24-2010, 01:10 PM
Everyone knows Draft day is a crap shoot. THe problem people have with the smith trade is that JMCD made it twice the gamble on a player we already had in JMFW (Slow short CB).

I also have a problem with the Quinn trade. He basically packaged up (threw away?) two draft picks to draft a blocking tight end who caught less than 20 passes in college. There was already a blocking TE on the roster.

T.K.O.
01-24-2010, 01:10 PM
you mean to tell me this nutjob wants ALL the players and coaches striving to implement a common plan and goal.....as a TEAM !
what an idiot :confused:

NightTrainLayne
01-24-2010, 01:11 PM
I dont know how you can judge that after one year. I keep pointing back to the individuals who say that McDaniels deserves more than one year to prove himself. Ok, im fine with that. But why does that not then apply to Nolan? Nolan to me proved his worth this year with the lack of talent on the Dline that he had to work with. Unfortuantely, we saw this kind of behavior from Shanahan down the line when every year he was swapping out DC's and using them for scapegoats. At some point you have to allow the players and coach himself to get his players and form a bond and chemistry so that the system works. The fact that Nolan was able to make wine out of water tells me that McD jumped the gun without giving Nolan a chance to get "his" guys in place for his defense.

It's not like Nolan was begging to stay for another year to prove himself.

Bad analogy.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:12 PM
Smith is slow now?

Unless he has improved his 40 time since we drafted him. He is faster than me at least. :D

Denver Native (Carol)
01-24-2010, 01:13 PM
The article, which contained the portion in post 1, contained many different things - here is full article, with article title: I left out the part which was posted in post 1.

McDaniels is moving the offense away from a zone-blocking, one-cut running game to a power scheme.

A moment of silence, please, for the Broncos' zone-blocking scheme.

Can there be a more fitting farewell tribute?

New coaches have been hired to teach a new way of running the ball at Dove Valley. The zone-blocking, one-cut running scheme, a Broncos staple since 1995, will not be back.

"Our running game and some of the things we're going to do next year will definitely change," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said Saturday night.

Freshly promoted offensive line coach Clancy Barone and newly hired assistant offensive line coach Bob Wylie and running backs coach Eric Studesville have been brought in to help transition the Broncos to more of a power running style.

"The teams that run the zone play, that's predominantly what they do," McDaniels said. "Because if you're going to be good at that, you're going to have to be good at that all the time. We're not doing that. There will be some zone in there, but we're not going to major in it."

During their Super Bowl title seasons in 1997 and 1998, the Broncos became famous for their zone/cut-blocking style and for offensive linemen who refused to speak to the media.

But a funny thing has happened since then — no zone-blocking system has carried a team to the Super Bowl, much less won it, since the 1998 Broncos.

And so Barone, Wylie and Studesville were hired to help alter the Broncos' running game that will feature second-year tailback Knowshon Moreno and possibly include one or two new offensive linemen.

"We're going to run some power, we're going to run some inside zone," McDaniels said. "There's no way to exactly characterize our type of running scheme. It's just not going to be dedicated to the outside zone play. It will be different. But it will be more what I'm used to, and Clancy's going to do a great job with it."

Additional topics addressed Saturday with McDaniels:

• Other coaching hires. The Broncos added more

Super Bowl pedigree to their coaching staff by hiring Bob Ligashesky, who served the past three seasons as special-teams coordinator for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Ligashesky, 46, will be the new tight ends coach.

Denver also promoted Ben McDan-iels to quarterbacks coach, a move that allows Mike McCoy to devote fully to his offensive coordinator duties.

It's possible a few McDaniels detractors may believe Ben got the promotion for no other reason than he is Josh's younger brother.

"Just watch him coach," Josh McDaniels said. "He's intense. He's going to be tough. He will be able to relate to players. He's not intimidated by anything whatsoever. This won't be too big for him."

The Broncos are negotiating a new contract for special-teams assistant Keith Burns, but they have yet to announce their new defensive coordinator. Linebackers coach Tom Martindale is a candidate.

• Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.

"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:14 PM
It's not like Nolan was begging to stay for another year to prove himself.

Bad analogy.

When you have someone who wants to put their hands in your cookie jar i wouldnt want to stay either. Nolan knows what he is doing and honestly judging by our offense last year McD needs to concentrate on other areas. So no, its not a bad analogy. Nolan wants to go where his services are respected. I dont care what McD says to the press, i go by what i see happening to the team. At the end of the day i dont think he will do well this year. But, if he fails its on his ass and unfortuantely my team will have to suffer for it if his choice was wrong.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:17 PM
you mean to tell me this nutjob wants ALL the players and coaches striving to implement a common plan and goal.....as a TEAM !
what an idiot :confused:

My problem with that is he will never have all of "His players" so he needs to be able to work with "Me" players as well.

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:18 PM
My problem with that is he will never have all of "His players" so he needs to be able to work with "Me" players as well.

All i know is Shanahan thought he had all of his players and coaching staff (Slowik anyone?) and looked what happened. At some point you have to go with guys who are proven even if it means you arent best friends. You always want to have the best man for the job.

Nomad
01-24-2010, 01:19 PM
My problem with that is he will never have all of "His players" so he needs to be able to work with "Me" players as well.

True! But 'ME' players need to not dig themselves such a deep hole with the league!:)

elsid13
01-24-2010, 01:20 PM
I posted on the Mane, and will say it here. McDaniels reminds me a lot a young PM that was very successful in previous job that was promoted, but refuses to leave that old job behind. One of the hardest thing I had to learn when I became management was to delegate and not to tell my folks how to do their jobs. You need to set your employees exceptions, monitor progress, and correct when need be, not to do everything.

T.K.O.
01-24-2010, 01:21 PM
When you have someone who wants to put their hands in your cookie jar i wouldnt want to stay either..

• Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.

"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."

you cant make a reality show out of every change the broncos make.....sorry.
but the chargers have the whole tila tequila /merriman thing and his baby....you could focus your anger on that for a while.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:23 PM
I also have a problem with the Quinn trade. He basically packaged up (threw away?) two draft picks to draft a blocking tight end who caught less than 20 passes in college. There was already a blocking TE on the roster.

The quinn trade gets lost because of the sheer mega disaster trade for Smith.

This isnt hindsight, because I felt it at the time, but I would still rather have a #1 and 2 x #3's than Quinn and Smith.

How that shit made sense to McDaniels at the time, or Ellis approved is beyond me.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:24 PM
• Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.

"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."

you cant make a reality show out of every change the broncos make.....sorry.
but the chargers have the whole tila tequila /merriman thing and his baby....you could focus your anger on that for a while.
This is far from a normal change. The army of McDaniels dmage control amazes me.

Nomad
01-24-2010, 01:31 PM
"We're going to run some power, we're going to run some inside zone," McDaniels said. "There's no way to exactly characterize our type of running scheme. It's just not going to be dedicated to the outside zone play. It will be different. But it will be more what I'm used to, and Clancy's going to do a great job with it."

."

MCD better get some beef on that line and I have jumped one individual's bandwagon who can be of help to fix it.....Iupati!!

elsid13
01-24-2010, 01:31 PM
The quinn trade gets lost because of the sheer mega disaster trade for Smith.

This isnt hindsight, because I felt it at the time, but I would still rather have a #1 and 2 x #3's than Quinn and Smith.

How that shit made sense to McDaniels at the time, or Ellis approved is beyond me.

It was because Xander and McDaniels had no experience running a draft. They panicked and didn't let the draft come to them.

The lack of experience in the front office is really scary. Bowlen isn't in the middle like some owners, Ellis has no clue when comes to football, Xanders made his name with contact negotiations and running the Falcons website, McDaniels wasn't in the war room for the Patriots (decisions were made Beliecheat and Pioli), our lead pro-scout (kidd) is Espin failure from Scouts InC, and our head of college scouting (Russel) was just be regional scout before he was hired.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:36 PM
It was because Xander and McDaniels had no experience running a draft. They panicked and didn't let the draft come to them.

The lack of experience in the front office is really scary. Bowlen isn't in the middle like some owners, Ellis has no clue when comes to football, Xanders made his name with contact negotiations and running the Falcons website, McDaniels wasn't in the war room for the Patriots (decisions were made Beliecheat and Pioli), our lead pro-scout (kidd) is Espin failure from Scouts InC, and our head of college scouting (Russel) has just be regional scout before he was hired.

:vomit: Im sure they are team first guys though.

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:36 PM
• Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.

"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."

you cant make a reality show out of every change the broncos make.....sorry.
but the chargers have the whole tila tequila /merriman thing and his baby....you could focus your anger on that for a while.


:lol:

Yea, McDaniels wouldnt lie now would he.....oh wait.

As far as Merriman and Tila i have no idea why you would even post anything about that. I have no interest in either one.

Nomad
01-24-2010, 01:37 PM
All i know is Shanahan thought he had all of his players and coaching staff (Slowik anyone?) and looked what happened. At some point you have to go with guys who are proven even if it means you arent best friends. You always want to have the best man for the job.

There is truth to this because I don't go to work to make friends but get a job done and get paid!! And sometimes, I can't stand a co-worker but I work along side of him!!

Denver Native (Carol)
01-24-2010, 01:39 PM
It was because Xander and McDaniels had no experience running a draft. They panicked and didn't let the draft come to them.

The lack of experience in the front office is really scary. Bowlen isn't in the middle like some owners, Ellis has no clue when comes to football, Xanders made his name with contact negotiations and running the Falcons website, McDaniels wasn't in the war room for the Patriots (decisions were made Beliecheat and Pioli), our lead pro-scout (kidd) is Espin failure from Scouts InC, and our head of college scouting (Russel) has just be regional scout before he was hired.

The Coach had previously addressed that he hopes to do better with the draft this year, and sited such things as not being hired until January, and because of that, things were rushed, not time to do a total evaluation of talent, etc. Also, remember that Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans, and they were the ones evaluating the talent, so a new scouting staff had to be put in place, and try to accomplish as much as they could - from January until the draft.

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:44 PM
There is truth to this because I don't go to work to make friends but get a job done and get paid!! And sometimes, I can't stand a co-worker but I work along side of him!!

It goes even beyond that for me although you 100% correct.

But, if i was in McD's shoes and i wanted to get a team to make a change for the better i would seek out the best guy available. I would then come into that team prepared and knowledgable about the situation with players there. I would then evaluate with my coaches about what is needed to make improvements in certain areas. Sure, i could say to myself "hey, i should get my friends in here even though i know they arent very good or as good as this other guy im interested in".

It was Shanahan's undoing here with his inability to come to grips about how crappy Slowik was as a DC. And i know we all thought it was a great idea when McD brought Nolan in and in turn Nolan did great considering what he had to work with. Even with our 6-0 start we knew there were some problems there but some people ignored them until of course the teams weaknesses got exposed later in the season. If i was a young HC i would come into my situation with a experienced DC and make sure homeboy has everything he needs to succeed at his position. For me as a person with no DC experience i couldnt fathom walking up to that same guy and telling him im going to be telling what he can call and cant call. I would then tell that guy if he wanted any input he could ask me but that i would allow him to run the defense the way he sees fit because i have faith in him to do that. Thats just professional courtesy in my mind.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:45 PM
The Coach had previously addressed that he hopes to do better with the draft this year, and sited such things as not being hired until January, and because of that, things were rushed, not time to do a total evaluation of talent, etc. Also, remember that Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans, and they were the ones evaluating the talent, so a new scouting staff had to be put in place, and try to accomplish as much as they could - from January until the draft.

I hope he gets better too. NOT firing the goodmans might have helped him not feel so rushed. We might still have our #14 too.

Northman
01-24-2010, 01:46 PM
I hope he gets better too. NOT firing the goodmans might have helped him not feel so rushed. We might still have our #14 too.

Just another situation i dont understand at all. :lol:

Biz1
01-24-2010, 01:48 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-presents/09000d5d814b4664/NFL-Films-Presents-McDaniels-high-school-roots

I stumbled across this while looking for something else today. Good insight on McD's younger days. As an outside observer and fan of another team, I I always feel that a coach cannot be fully evaluated from one season. 9 months ago, I predicted the Broncos to finish 8-8 and win the AFC W next year(wish I could find that old thread over on the "official MB"). Based on what I have seen, the Broncos are heading in the right general direction. Plus you are stocked with draft picks.

The outlook in Denver is much brighter than here in Chicago.

elsid13
01-24-2010, 01:48 PM
The Coach had previously addressed that he hopes to do better with the draft this year, and sited such things as not being hired until January, and because of that, things were rushed, not time to do a total evaluation of talent, etc. Also, remember that Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans, and they were the ones evaluating the talent, so a new scouting staff had to be put in place, and try to accomplish as much as they could - from January until the draft.

Carol that was an excuse. Goodmans were let go, but the scouts had already reports in and coaching staff had time to evaluate players on tape. It was lack of experience and little bit of arrogance that screwed up that last draft.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:49 PM
Just another situation i dont understand at all. :lol:

The list of weird shit that he has done is scary/amazing when you step back and look at it.

And none of it has worked. It has all bit us in the ass in some way.

claymore
01-24-2010, 01:53 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-presents/09000d5d814b4664/NFL-Films-Presents-McDaniels-high-school-roots

I stumbled across this while looking for something else today. Good insight on McD's younger days. As an outside observer and fan of another team, I I always feel that a coach cannot be fully evaluated from one season. 9 months ago, I predicted the Broncos to finish 8-8 and win the AFC W next year(wish I could find that old thread over on the "official MB"). Based on what I have seen, the Broncos are heading in the right general direction. Plus you are stocked with draft picks.

The outlook in Denver is much brighter than here in Chicago.

Wide Right sums McDaniels up perfectley. :drinking:

Denver Native (Carol)
01-24-2010, 01:54 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-presents/09000d5d814b4664/NFL-Films-Presents-McDaniels-high-school-roots

I stumbled across this while looking for something else today. Good insight on McD's younger days. As an outside observer and fan of another team, I I always feel that a coach cannot be fully evaluated from one season. 9 months ago, I predicted the Broncos to finish 8-8 and win the AFC W next year(wish I could find that old thread over on the "official MB"). Based on what I have seen, the Broncos are heading in the right general direction. Plus you are stocked with draft picks.

The outlook in Denver is much brighter than here in Chicago.

It is always GREAT to get the opinion of a fan of another team :salute:

Denver Native (Carol)
01-24-2010, 01:55 PM
Carol that was an excuse. Goodmans were let go, but the scouts had already reports in and coaching staff had time to evaluate players on tape. It was lack of experience and little bit of arrogance that screwed up that last draft.

To each his own

BroncoJoe
01-24-2010, 02:02 PM
Carol that was an excuse. Goodmans were let go, but the scouts had already reports in and coaching staff had time to evaluate players on tape. It was lack of experience and little bit of arrogance that screwed up that last draft.

Scouting players for a different regime and philosophy. Plus, IIRC most of the scouts left or were released as well by Bowlen, not McD.

elsid13
01-24-2010, 02:04 PM
Scouting players for a different regime and philosophy. Plus, IIRC most of the scouts left or were released as well by Bowlen, not McD.

They didn't lose any scouts expect Goodman.

Lonestar
01-24-2010, 02:06 PM
So many on the dark side wanting to read what they want into every nuisance.


Did anyone stop to think that regardless of how good someone is or ISN'T it is not a good mix. When Josh asked him if he wanted to intreview and he said yes. I then became just what it appeared to be a MUTUAL agreement.

I know that many are pissed about anything Josh does but it is not a Capitol offense that you want to make it out to be.

Nolan departure is not the end of the world that Y'all make it out to be.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

spikerman
01-24-2010, 02:10 PM
Scouting players for a different regime and philosophy. Plus, IIRC most of the scouts left or were released as well by Bowlen, not McD.

Wait a minute. Didn't Bowlen himself say that McDaniels was going to be running the football side (in conjuction with Xanders)? If that's the case, are we expected to believe that McDaniels had NOTHING to do with the firing of the football scouts?

claymore
01-24-2010, 02:15 PM
So many on the dark side wanting to read what they want into every nuisance.


Did anyone stop to think that regardless of how good someone is or ISN'T it is not a good mix. When Josh asked him if he wanted to intreview and he said yes. I then became just what it appeared to be a MUTUAL agreement.

I know that many are pissed about anything Josh does but it is not a Capitol offense that you want to make it out to be.

Nolan departure is not the end of the world that Y'all make it out to be.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
At this point, the only way JMCD could make it worse is if he killed Bowlen.

Lonestar
01-24-2010, 02:22 PM
They didn't lose any scouts expect Goodman.

We had a lot of scouts not just the two of them. When Josh was hired Jim was promoted to Co-GM IIRC.

But when goodman jr started throwing his weight around because daddy was who he was it caused dissent in the FO.

I also suspect that they resisted in trying to get the players Josh wanted. As they were specing players all year for mike small fast opposed to what Josh was looking for bigger stronger smart and faster with a littlw mean streak along with it.

Goodmans were looking finese and Josh wanted real football players.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

spikerman
01-24-2010, 02:23 PM
We had a lot of scouts not just the two of them. When Josh was hired Jim was promoted to Co-GM IIRC.

But when goodman jr started throwing his weight around because daddy was who he was it caused dissent in the FO.

I also suspect that they resisted in trying to get the players Josh wanted. As they were specing players all year for mike small fast opposed to what Josh was looking for bigger stronger smart and faster with a littlw mean streak along with it.

Goodmans were looking finese and Josh wanted real football players.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
From the results of the draft, I suspect the Goodmans had the right view of things.

elsid13
01-24-2010, 02:24 PM
We had a lot of scouts not just the two of them. When Josh was hired Jim was promoted to Co-GM IIRC.

But when goodman jr started throwing his weight around because daddy was who he was it caused dissent in the FO.

I also suspect that they resisted in trying to get the players Josh wanted. As they were specing players all year for mike small fast opposed to what Josh was looking for bigger stronger smart and faster with a littlw mean streak along with it.

Goodmans were looking finese and Josh wanted real football players.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

The post was the Bowlen fired all the scouts. That not the case. The only college scout that was let go was Goodman. The regional scouts were not let go. We have most of the same guys we had for the last 20 years still on staff scouting for the team.

getlynched47
01-24-2010, 02:51 PM
.........according to him

spikerman
01-24-2010, 02:52 PM
.........according to him

:lol::lol::lol:

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 02:52 PM
I don't know who's been charge of the scouting department, but if it has been the Goodman's the last 10+ years, they needed to be fired.

Ziggy
01-24-2010, 02:57 PM
The post was the Bowlen fired all the scouts. That not the case. The only college scout that was let go was Goodman. The regional scouts were not let go. We have most of the same guys we had for the last 20 years still on staff scouting for the team.

And we've been one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL for over a decade. Yet somehow, it's all McD's fault.

Hoser
01-24-2010, 03:01 PM
One thing sounds clear to me.


McDaniels is not going to let anyone else get credit for the defense other than himself.

Hes saying....I did that. I made the defensive team what it is today......not Nolan.


And one things for sure..............after this year..........thats surely what will be said. So lets hope McD is a stud defensive minded butt kicker.

I saw a lot of we and our when talking about the defense, not I.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 03:04 PM
I saw a lot of we and our when talking about the defense, not I.

Agreed. Just a lot of hot garbage being spewed by McDaniels haters. He never talks in terms of "I" with the organization. It's always been "we".

dogfish
01-24-2010, 04:47 PM
But a funny thing has happened since then — no zone-blocking system has carried a team to the Super Bowl, much less won it, since the 1998 Broncos.



this is the second time i've seen this quote in the past few days, and it's not entirely accurate. . . the colts won the super bowl in 2007, and they're predominantly a zone-blocking team. . . their running game is extremely simple, and for years the zone-stretch with edge james was their bread and butter in the ground game. . .


Running games can be divided into systems. Some of the more popular systems are the zone system, the gap system, the man system, the sweep system, and the option system. The Colts have overwhelmingly run a zone system. The Colts have run 2 basic zone running plays (as well as the draw play) for a few years: The otuside zone (stretch C-D gap play) and the Inside Zone (A-gap).

http://footballxos.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/zone-blocking-in-a-passing-offense-indianapolis-colts-study/


Their favorite run play is the stretch play, also known as the outside zone.

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2005/11/colts-stretch-play.html

granted, if you read the quote literally it's fair to say that the zone scheme didn't "carry" the colts to the title, but the implication that no team running a zone-blocking scheme as their primary running scheme has won the super bowl since denver did it is not correct. . .

broken12
01-24-2010, 04:56 PM
heard from a friend that works at invesco that next years song before the team gets announced will be crazy train by ozzy!

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:00 PM
this is the second time i've seen this quote in the past few days, and it's not entirely accurate. . . the colts won the super bowl in 2007, and they're predominantly a zone-blocking team. . . their running game is extremely simple, and for years the zone-stretch with edge james was their bread and butter in the ground game. . .



http://footballxos.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/zone-blocking-in-a-passing-offense-indianapolis-colts-study/



http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2005/11/colts-stretch-play.html

granted, if you read the quote literally it's fair to say that the zone scheme didn't "carry" the colts to the title, but the implication that no team running a zone-blocking scheme as their primary running scheme has won the super bowl since denver did it is not correct. . .

The Colts offense has been mediocre at best in the playoffs, and that's with arguably the G.O.A.T. at QB. I will also argue that Indy won the SuperBowl that year because of their defense, which was a laughing stock the last few weeks of the season, only to get Bopb Sanders back for the playoffs, and was the best defense throughout the duration of that playoffs.

Other than the play of their defense on their SuperBowl run, the Colts haven't been a great team at all in the playoffs, and that goes very much with their offense as well.

I don't even think Peyton Manning has a winning record in the playoffs.

LordTrychon
01-24-2010, 05:19 PM
I say I'm not sarcastic....

frauschieze
01-24-2010, 05:27 PM
The Coach had previously addressed that he hopes to do better with the draft this year, and sited such things as not being hired until January, and because of that, things were rushed, not time to do a total evaluation of talent, etc. Also, remember that Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans, and they were the ones evaluating the talent, so a new scouting staff had to be put in place, and try to accomplish as much as they could - from January until the draft.

Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans less than a week before the draft so that has nothing to do with preparedness for the draft. As G Money posted before another team had over 700 players on their draft board for less picks than we did. IIRC, we used to have between 300 and 400 when Shanahan was coach. I refuse to believe a scout would be so short sighted as to not have a clue about any other players except ones tha fit a certain scheme. How do they decide who might work and who might not? BY LOOKING AT ALL AVAILABLE PLAYERS. That would mean there is at least a rudimentary knowledge of every college player out there. Four months should have been a sufficient amount of time to gather additional information based on Josh's guidance. Also, there was no new scouting team put in place. I'll buy that we may not have been as in depth as we would have liked, but there is NO excuse for only having 100 players on our board. None.




Carol that was an excuse. Goodmans were let go, but the scouts had already reports in and coaching staff had time to evaluate players on tape. It was lack of experience and little bit of arrogance that screwed up that last draft.

Agreed in full.


We had a lot of scouts not just the two of them. When Josh was hired Jim was promoted to Co-GM IIRC.

But when goodman jr started throwing his weight around because daddy was who he was it caused dissent in the FO.

I also suspect that they resisted in trying to get the players Josh wanted. As they were specing players all year for mike small fast opposed to what Josh was looking for bigger stronger smart and faster with a littlw mean streak along with it.

Goodmans were looking finese and Josh wanted real football players.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

BS on the bolded part. Not only is there NO way to evaluate such a claim, there hasn't even been any evidence to even remotely give that assumption any credence. That is blind McDaniels homerism at it's worst.

Both Goodmans leaving was quite clearly a power struggle which McDaniels won, since he was specifically not hired to be the GM. After Jim Goodman is gone, McDaniels has that control. Seems very clear cut to me.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:29 PM
Why is this argument still going on about the Goodman's?

That's like trying to make an argument in support of a player like Ian Gold.

Northman
01-24-2010, 05:32 PM
Why is this argument still going on about the Goodman's?

That's like trying to make an argument in support of a player like Ian Gold.

Actually, the Goodman's were doing well the last couple of years. Prior to that the bad drafting had more to do with Sundquist.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:34 PM
Actually, the Goodman's were doing well the last couple of years. Prior to that the bad drafting had more to do with Sundquist.

They had one good draft, which coincidentally led to all offensive players, who probably was more of a Shanahan choice.

Graded as a whole, the Goodman's were terrible, and DEnver was one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL throughout the 2000's.

Northman
01-24-2010, 05:36 PM
They had one good draft, which coincidentally led to all offensive players, who probably was more of a Shanahan choice.

Graded as a whole, the Goodman's were terrible, and DEnver was one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL throughout the 2000's.

Not likely.

If Shanahan was the sole reason what happened before the Goodman's arrived? Once Sundquist was cut loose all of a sudden the drafting got much better. I think your reaching.

frauschieze
01-24-2010, 05:40 PM
They had one good draft, which coincidentally led to all offensive players, who probably was more of a Shanahan choice.

Graded as a whole, the Goodman's were terrible, and DEnver was one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL throughout the 2000's.

Sundquist was terrible. He leaves and all of a sudden the drafting is tremendously better? Probably not a coincidence. :hi:

And I'll give you the fact that the Goodmans were not very good at drafting defense. But at least they were good on one side of the ball, but so far, the current GM/HC doesn't seem to be able to draft on either side of the ball. The truth on that though won't be known for at least another two years.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:43 PM
Not likely.

If Shanahan was the sole reason what happened before the Goodman's arrived? Once Sundquist was cut loose all of a sudden the drafting got much better. I think your reaching.

Reaching? How so? Throughtout the 2000's Denver had the least amount of drafted players on their roster. Teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Indianapolis were the highest.

If you're insinuating I'm reaching kind of like the Goodman's did with guys like Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Karl Paymah, Domonique Foxworth, Tatum Bell, Darius Watts, every single draft from basically up until 2005, I agree.

How long have they been scout evaluators with Denver? 20 years did I hear? It only took them like 18 years to figure it out? LMAO

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:45 PM
And I'll give you the fact that the Goodmans were not very good at drafting defense. But at least they were good on one side of the ball, but so far, the current GM/HC doesn't seem to be able to draft on either side of the ball. The truth on that though won't be known for at least another two years.

Interesting.

1)Coincidence how Denver was coached by an offensive "guru".
2)Defense was the organizations downfall.


= McDaniels should have cleaned house when he was hired.

Including the poor defensive evaluators the Goodman's?

Maybe he should have asked the Goodman's to take a 50% salary cut, considering he could only scout the offensive side of the ball anyways. Allegedly.

Northman
01-24-2010, 05:46 PM
Reaching? How so? Throughtout the 2000's Denver had the least amount of drafted players on their roster. Teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Indianapolis were the highest.

If you're insinuating I'm reaching kind of like the Goodman's did with guys like Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Karl Paymah, Domonique Foxworth, Tatum Bell, Darius Watts, every single draft from basically up until 2005, I agree.

How long have they been scout evaluators with Denver? 20 years did I hear? It only took them like 18 years to figure it out? LMAO

You heard wrong. Might want to read up on their history. Jim was just the player director and Jeff was in College scouting before joining Denver in 08'. Ted Sundquist had been running the GM duties and in charge of the draft picks and what not for years before the Goodman's took over in 08'.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-24-2010, 05:47 PM
Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans less than a week before the draft so that has nothing to do with preparedness for the draft.

The Goodmans were fired on February 12th. The draft was April 25th/26th

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11691214?source=rss

Posted: 02/12/2009 04:43:26 PM MST
Updated: 02/12/2009 08:54:52 PM MST

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen on Thursday made another major change at the top of the organization when he named Brian Xanders as general manager and fired Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:49 PM
You heard wrong. Might want to read up on their history. Jim was just the player director and Jeff was in College scouting before joining Denver in 08'. Ted Sundquist had been running the GM duties and in charge of the draft picks and what not for years before the Goodman's took over in 08'.

So the Goodman's were, or weren't, involved with scouting? Maybe just Jeff should have been fired.

Ziggy
01-24-2010, 05:50 PM
Sundquist was terrible. He leaves and all of a sudden the drafting is tremendously better? Probably not a coincidence. :hi:

And I'll give you the fact that the Goodmans were not very good at drafting defense. But at least they were good on one side of the ball, but so far, the current GM/HC doesn't seem to be able to draft on either side of the ball. The truth on that though won't be known for at least another two years.

This is what I like about you Frau. Even though you have hated McD since he brought in Paxton, you have enough common sense to give these draft picks a few years to prove themseleves as either players or busts. Thanks for interjecting some common sense.

Northman
01-24-2010, 05:51 PM
So the Goodman's were, or weren't, involved with scouting? Maybe just Jeff should have been fired.

They helped with scouting but in no way made the decisions with the drafting. You can scout all day long on players but it doesnt mean the GM is going to draft the guys you think are better than others. The Goodman's prior to 08' had no say in the drafting whatsoever.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2010, 05:53 PM
They helped with scouting but in no way made the decisions with the drafting. You can scout all day long on players but it doesnt mean the GM is going to draft the guys you think are better than others. The Goodman's prior to 08' had no say in the drafting whatsoever.

I still iked the firing. Anyone who was involved with Denver slipping into the worst 3 years tenure in the last 20 years should have been fired.

Get some guys in here that can actuallty win.

frauschieze
01-24-2010, 05:57 PM
This is what I like about you Frau. Even though you have hated McD since he brought in Paxton, you have enough common sense to give these draft picks a few years to prove themseleves as either players or busts. Thanks for interjecting some common sense.

Hated is a little strong for how I felt up until the last week of the season, but thanks. I'm trying to stay grounded. I won't lie; it's been really hard. In all fairness, I'm giving McDaniels another year. I have some hope that his coaching philosophy will start to shine, but I've become more and more concerned with his ability to "play nice". And I desperately hope one of the things he's working on this offseason is his media presence and communication skills.

*sighs* I'm ready for the drama to be done, please.

frauschieze
01-24-2010, 06:00 PM
The Goodmans were fired on February 12th. The draft was April 25th/26th

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11691214?source=rss

Posted: 02/12/2009 04:43:26 PM MST
Updated: 02/12/2009 08:54:52 PM MST

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen on Thursday made another major change at the top of the organization when he named Brian Xanders as general manager and fired Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

If anything, that strengthens my point though. They had more time to make their OWN plan, to put together their OWN board, without the Goodmans' influence.

Guess it's really a moot point. Done and over with. I just don't like the excuses. The Broncos organization, as a whole, was unprepared and there's no excuse for that. Whose fault it ultimately is, doesn't matter.

Ziggy
01-24-2010, 06:04 PM
I stand corrected. Thanks.

If anything, that strengthens my point though. They had more time to make their OWN plan, to put together their OWN board, without the Goodmans' influence.

Guess it's really a moot point. Done and over with. I just don't like the excuses. The Broncos organization, as a whole, was unprepared and there's no excuse for that. Whose fault it ultimately is, doesn't matter.

It was McD's fault. He said as much. I have no problem with him being unprepared with all that went down. I just don't understand why he was so agressive in a draft that he readily admitted he was unprepared for. It was a huge mistake. I hope he learned his lesson.

frauschieze
01-24-2010, 06:12 PM
It was McD's fault. He said as much. I have no problem with him being unprepared with all that went down. I just don't understand why he was so agressive in a draft that he readily admitted he was unprepared for. It was a huge mistake. I hope he learned his lesson.

I know he said that, but then most good bosses will blame themselves regardless, so I'm not entirely convinced I believe it's all his fault.

I wish we had a real GM.

claymore
01-24-2010, 06:24 PM
Well the first year is over. No more "my bad's" Its all his fault for better or worse from this point forward.

No excuses either way.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-24-2010, 06:28 PM
Well the first year is over. No more "my bad's" Its all his fault for better or worse from this point forward.

No excuses either way.

Agree Clay :salute: - time to move on to the next season

Northman
01-24-2010, 06:37 PM
Well the first year is over. No more "my bad's" Its all his fault for better or worse from this point forward.

No excuses either way.

Thats really the jist of it for me. He got the bugs and kinks out and now its time to put up or shut up.

Poet
01-24-2010, 06:41 PM
In the end McDaniels will be judged like everyone else; his accomplishments and record as the HC is what people will care about.

WARHORSE
01-24-2010, 07:25 PM
Some of you people...:rolleyes: He never referred to anything about the defense as solely his accomplishment... WTF are you saying?

Some of you people.............um...............cant read?

Pull the football out of your rear.


Im saying exactly what i said.

He was asked to respond to the notion that Nolan left due to a disagreement on how often to blitz. Thats all. They didnt ask him who's defensive philosophy was responsible for the Denver D this year, and whether that was Nolans, and whether it was leaving with him.

You think its WRONG of him to state that the defensive philosophy is his? ??

Is there a problem with that?


He went out of his way to state that the 'defensive philosophy' that was used, was OURS, and its staying here.

In other words, the defense that we used wasnt Mike Nolans philosophy, and it isnt leaving with him........it was mine.

Cut it any way you want to. The defensive philosophy on the team IS McDaniels. HE is the one who decides what to do. HE is the one that determined what we were going to do when he came in. And in the end, its HIS HEAD that rolls without defensive success.

Nothing wrong with him stating the facts, and dont tell me he hasnt heard the whispers that Nolan is the one that turned the defense around. Nothing wrong with making sure everyone knows that he is the one calling the shots around here.

Im perfectly fine with that, and if he succeeds, he gets the credit. If he doesnt, he gets the credit. This is the way real men play their hands.



Stop acting like I killed the cat. All I did was punt it as far as I could.:coffee:

dogfish
01-24-2010, 08:31 PM
They had one good draft, which coincidentally led to all offensive players, who probably was more of a Shanahan choice.

Graded as a whole, the Goodman's were terrible, and DEnver was one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL throughout the 2000's.

they ran three drafts for us and produced jay cutler, brandon marshall, elvis dumervil, tony scheffler, chris kuper, domenik hixon, ryan harris, ryan clady, eddie royal and peyton hillis. . . and they were terrible? based on drafts that sundquist ran, where you have zero idea how closely he and shenanigans followed their recommendations or even what positions and types of players they were instructed to focus on?

wow. . .

Watchthemiddle
01-24-2010, 08:38 PM
Well the first year is over. No more "my bad's" Its all his fault for better or worse from this point forward.

No excuses either way.

Regardless he needs 3 years. He went 8-8 his first season, I look for improvement in year 2, and by year three we should be rolling.

I don't want to see a revolving HC door in Denver like we saw during the mid 90's and in Oakland and Cleveland every year. We are already seeing a revolving door at DC - 5 in 5 years??

Shanny and his "system" constantly got the 3 year benefit of the doubt so I expect McD to get atleast 3 seasons.

JDL
01-24-2010, 10:41 PM
What folks fail to realize is that NE has consistently won games with NON ME players.

They have taken castoffs that wanted to win more than huge paychecks. They are fairly compensated but with the exception of perhaps Brady few are bank breakers. And Brady was not a hotshot QB when he stepped on the field. I doubt that he'd still be in the league had he been drafted into a less QB friendly team and had been forced into playing without KNOWING the playbook first.

To further that theme IIRC he was the only player that did not have OJT exprience. No one else had to learn it at the same time as he did.

Everyone else was dailed into it.

Which is a HUGE difference than our situation.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Much easier to do when you stumble across one that happens to also be a Hall of Fame QB. That franchise was built because of Brady... they weren't a very talented team for a long-time, but Brady's success and those championships eventually allowed them to build quite a team... a team capable of sustaining not having Brady. Trying to do it backwards... well... it's a much different story... the former Lions coach preached all the exact same things time and again and it didn't make a bit of difference... they just sucked. Maybe McD does it ... maybe he doesn't... but there aren't many coaches that spout anything other than what McDaniels is... I don't really give a damn personally what any coach says... I care what he does... judge him on his actions... coached well for 6 games ... but was terrible over the last 10 and seems to never quite have control of the organization. It's an issue.

JDL
01-24-2010, 10:48 PM
Regardless he needs 3 years. He went 8-8 his first season, I look for improvement in year 2, and by year three we should be rolling.

I don't want to see a revolving HC door in Denver like we saw during the mid 90's and in Oakland and Cleveland every year. We are already seeing a revolving door at DC - 5 in 5 years??

Shanny and his "system" constantly got the 3 year benefit of the doubt so I expect McD to get atleast 3 seasons.

Why?

If he goes 3-13 or 4-12 ... you're going to seriously sit here and suggest he stays? Other than the strike season it has been since 1971 since the Denver Broncos haven't won at least 5 games ... and 5 games has happened only once since 1973 (1990- the Super Bowl Hangover team.) In fact, this team has almost NEVER had serious losing records...

Since 1975? (when we started to change)

1975: 6-8
1982: 2-7 (Strike Season)
1990: 5-11 (Coming off Super Bowl)
1999: 6-10 (Coming off Super Bowl)

Sorry, McDaniels doesn't get an extra year... this crap that McDaniels needs 3 years is BS... I posted the list in another list, but there are about 8-10 coaches who in the last couple years have dramatically turned their teams around in 1 SEASON!!! It does NOT take 3 damn years to win in this league... Tough season fine... don't win next year? Wade Phillips treatment... period.

TXBRONC
01-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Why?

If he goes 3-13 or 4-12 ... you're going to seriously sit here and suggest he stays? Other than the strike season it has been since 1971 since the Denver Broncos haven't won at least 5 games ... and 5 games has happened only once since 1973 (1990- the Super Bowl Hangover team.) In fact, this team has almost NEVER had serious losing records...

Since 1975? (when we started to change)

1975: 6-8
1982: 2-7 (Strike Season)
1990: 5-11 (Coming off Super Bowl)
1999: 6-10 (Coming off Super Bowl)

Sorry, McDaniels doesn't get an extra year... this crap that McDaniels needs 3 years is BS... I posted the list in another list, but there are about 8-10 coaches who in the last couple years have dramatically turned their teams around in 1 SEASON!!! It does NOT take 3 damn years to win in this league... Tough season fine... don't win next year? Wade Phillips treatment... period.

I think he will get three years but that's assuming the team shows significant improvement next year. However if next season is a disaster (like going 4-12) then I would seriously doubt he makes it to a third season.

Northman
01-24-2010, 11:08 PM
I think he will get three years but that's assuming the team shows significant improvement next year. However if next season is a disaster (like going 4-12) then I would seriously doubt he makes to a third season.

^This.

McDaniels was brought in to improve the team and get them back into the playoffs on a regular basis. If he has a disasterous season to go along with the constant butting of heads with players and coaches he wont get a third. Shanahan was removed because he couldnt get back to the playoffs on a regular basis. The leash for McD will not be that long especially if the team regresses.

rcsodak
01-24-2010, 11:39 PM
One thing sounds clear to me.


McDaniels is not going to let anyone else get credit for the defense other than himself.

Hes saying....I did that. I made the defensive team what it is today......not Nolan.


And one things for sure..............after this year..........thats surely what will be said. So lets hope McD is a stud defensive minded butt kicker.

Why didn't I see those "I"'s in those quotes? Were they in some sort of stealth mode where only you could see them?

rcsodak
01-24-2010, 11:45 PM
This is the most important statement in the entire article. The funny thing is, it holds true for EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. If I was a head coach who could get ALL the people I wanted to play and coach my team, I'd win a superbowl every year. This is an extremely arrogant and naive statement. The job of the HC is to win with what he's got. No coach gets everything he wants in the way of personnel.

NO SHIT JOSH! Anyone can win with "all the right people"! Because this is unattainable in the NFL, this statement alone tells me that no matter what, Josh will always use this as an excuse for failure if he does in fact fail. "I just don't have all the right people around me, therefore, it's someone else's fault."

It may not even be what he meant, but it's absolutely what he said which displays once again his lack of experience and maturity. Every time this guy opens his mouth to the press, he puts his foot in it and makes the organization look bad, too.

Seriously?

lmao

Ever occur to you that he's not talking about having all the best players in the NFL, which you seem to be referring to?

He's talking about having players with HEART! DEVOTION! Players that WANT to learn! Players that WANT to be a Bronco!

But of course, NOTHING McD says will ever mesh with the voices in your head, methinks. ;)

rcsodak
01-24-2010, 11:56 PM
I dont know how you can judge that after one year. I keep pointing back to the individuals who say that McDaniels deserves more than one year to prove himself. Ok, im fine with that. But why does that not then apply to Nolan? Nolan to me proved his worth this year with the lack of talent on the Dline that he had to work with. Unfortuantely, we saw this kind of behavior from Shanahan down the line when every year he was swapping out DC's and using them for scapegoats. At some point you have to allow the players and coach himself to get his players and form a bond and chemistry so that the system works. The fact that Nolan was able to make wine out of water tells me that McD jumped the gun without giving Nolan a chance to get "his" guys in place for his defense.

In case you forgot, Nolan wasn't fired.

It was mutual.

If a headcoach brings in someone thinking they're going to do one thing, but instead do another, you don't think that headcoach has the right to say something?

I've never seen a coordinator tell the headcoach how to run his team. Evidently you have?

rcsodak
01-25-2010, 12:05 AM
It was because Xander and McDaniels had no experience running a draft. They panicked and didn't let the draft come to them.

The lack of experience in the front office is really scary. Bowlen isn't in the middle like some owners, Ellis has no clue when comes to football, Xanders made his name with contact negotiations and running the Falcons website, McDaniels wasn't in the war room for the Patriots (decisions were made Beliecheat and Pioli), our lead pro-scout (kidd) is Espin failure from Scouts InC, and our head of college scouting (Russel) was just be regional scout before he was hired.

.....:confused:
....I have no idea what you just said

Other than the fact that you believe you can draft in the NFL and run a team?

GEM
01-25-2010, 12:14 AM
Smith is slow now?

Yea Layne, he's slow don't ya know...that's why just about everybody had him rated as the #1 CB in the draft last year and also why he lead the ENTIRE college ranks in INT's. I mean, Josh took some guy that nobody had on their board straight out of nowhere. :rolleyes:

He had a rookie season...these things happen. Some need to really give shit a chance before calling things a failure. :shakeshead:

GEM
01-25-2010, 12:15 AM
I also have a problem with the Quinn trade. He basically packaged up (threw away?) two draft picks to draft a blocking tight end who caught less than 20 passes in college. There was already a blocking TE on the roster.

Who is one of the highest paid TE's in the game.....maybe, just maybe he's drafting for the future to save some of that money?

Poet
01-25-2010, 12:24 AM
My problem with that is he will never have all of "His players" so he needs to be able to work with "Me" players as well.

I see a ton of 'me' players on the Ravens, Bengals, Patriots, Colts, Jets, Chargers, Cardinals, Saints, Vikings, Cowboys, Eagles and Packers.

No, really, let's count them. The Ravens have...zero me players. Cincinnati has...zero, but just for the sake of an argument I'll give you Ochocinco.

The Patriots have Moss, the Jets have...no one, the Chargers have Merriman, the Cardinals have Boldin, Saints have no one, the Vikes have no one, the Boys have Roy Williams, the Eagles and Packers have no one.

So out of the 12 teams you have four me players.

BUT!

If you guys made the playoffs I could have added Brandon Marshall and Scheffler to the list, woot woot!

dogfish
01-25-2010, 01:48 AM
I've never seen a coordinator tell the headcoach how to run his team. Evidently you have?

i have. . . buddyr ryan pretty much told ditka to keep his damn hands off the defense-- and it worked for them, but it's not likely to under most circumstances. . .



Yea Layne, he's slow don't ya know...that's why just about everybody had him rated as the #1 CB in the draft last year and also why he lead the ENTIRE college ranks in INT's. I mean, Josh took some guy that nobody had on their board straight out of nowhere. :rolleyes:

He had a rookie season...these things happen. Some need to really give shit a chance before calling things a failure. :shakeshead:

he is slowish, at least in terms of timed speed and in comparison to other NFL corners-- his 40 times are in the 4.5 range. . . doesn't necessarily account for field speed with the pads on, and it doesn't mean he can't be a good corner in this league. . . but he's not a blazer, and you could really see it when he was on returns in preseason. . .

your second paragraph is absolutely correct. . .

dogfish
01-25-2010, 01:54 AM
I see a ton of 'me' players on the Ravens, Bengals, Patriots, Colts, Jets, Chargers, Cardinals, Saints, Vikings, Cowboys, Eagles and Packers.

No, really, let's count them. The Ravens have...zero me players. Cincinnati has...zero, but just for the sake of an argument I'll give you Ochocinco.

The Patriots have Moss, the Jets have...no one, the Chargers have Merriman, the Cardinals have Boldin, Saints have no one, the Vikes have no one, the Boys have Roy Williams, the Eagles and Packers have no one.

So out of the 12 teams you have four me players.

BUT!

If you guys made the playoffs I could have added Brandon Marshall and Scheffler to the list, woot woot!

i won't get into a lengthy argument, but there are more than you listed. . . trevor pryce is a me player, take it from a denver fan. . . and ray lewis is a bigtime me player-- dude has spent his whole career bitching about his contract, and making demands on the front office. . . the fact that they've mostly humored him has kept the situation from boiling over. . . hell, he publicly demanded that they upgrade the D-tackles in front of him the year they drafted ngata. . . just because he's a beast on the field and a team leader doesn't mean he isn't as selfish as the next guy when the chips are on the line. . .

and the vikes don't have any me players? how about the diva who held green bay hostage for years with his public retirement dramas?

and wait and see whether dockett or dansby hold out this year before calling them "team players". . .


are any of those teams full of prima donnas? nah. . . but plenty of guys get selfish when they think they're underpaid. . .

Shazam!
01-25-2010, 02:00 AM
I think McD will get at least 3 Seasons unless the Broncos are really, really bad next year.

Lonestar
01-25-2010, 02:16 AM
From the results of the draft, I suspect the Goodmans had the right view of things.

So what were the results of the draft?

were any of the busts and were cut summarily ?

Any of them arrested or got suspended?

Any of the RB's drafted not lead the league in yardage for rookies?

Did not most of them contribute at least on ST's?

Unless I missed something all of them played in games this year.

None were benched IIRC.


So what was so bad, that all of them were not instant staters and made the pro bowl?


Ayers was moved to OLB where most teams had him pegged for, after a career at DE hand in the ground 4-3. Did he not get some time to learn it?

Moreno while IMHO we did not need a RB, he did in fact lead all rookies in yards in a part time role.

Smith came from a small school with ball hawking skills. to return kicks play dime CB. Yet I suspect you thought he should be a starter at perhaps the second hardest position on the team to learn.

Quinn is a Maybe, not sure what eh plans are there but I'm willing to give the coach who KNOWS that plans a break and allow him more than 16 games to implement it.

I saw nor catastrophe in the draft like some did. In fact I saw most of it as building blocks for the future.

Lonestar
01-25-2010, 02:25 AM
Bowlen got rid of the Goodmans less than a week before the draft so that has nothing to do with preparedness for the draft. As G Money posted before another team had over 700 players on their draft board for less picks than we did. IIRC, we used to have between 300 and 400 when Shanahan was coach. I refuse to believe a scout would be so short sighted as to not have a clue about any other players except ones tha fit a certain scheme. How do they decide who might work and who might not? BY LOOKING AT ALL AVAILABLE PLAYERS. That would mean there is at least a rudimentary knowledge of every college player out there. Four months should have been a sufficient amount of time to gather additional information based on Josh's guidance. Also, there was no new scouting team put in place. I'll buy that we may not have been as in depth as we would have liked, but there is NO excuse for only having 100 players on our board. None.





Agreed in full.



BS on the bolded part. Not only is there NO way to evaluate such a claim, there hasn't even been any evidence to even remotely give that assumption any credence. That is blind McDaniels homerism at it's worst.

Both Goodmans leaving was quite clearly a power struggle which McDaniels won, since he was specifically not hired to be the GM. After Jim Goodman is gone, McDaniels has that control. Seems very clear cut to me.


You do not believe that mike gave them a list of what he was looking for in particular.

Did not tell them I'm looking for in this draft RB's, OG, WR, LB's . and since they knew his preference in what he liked in players they did not look for them specefically?


now I'm sure they also brought in others that may fit his scheme.

I can't believe they looked hard at the top flight OLINE guys till Clady was needed. they looked for bargains that most others passed on.

I fail to believe that all of the players they had scouted were candidates for Joshes desires.

Come on Frau your better than this you know what mike drafted and it seemed almost 180 DEGREES from what Josh did.

Lonestar
01-25-2010, 02:36 AM
FWIW I'm going to go on record and say that Josh will get as many seasons in DEN that Pat allows and that it is up to him to make those decisions.

Not a bunch of MMQB's.

/END

frauschieze
01-25-2010, 02:38 AM
You do not believe that mike gave them a list of what he was looking for in particular.

Did not tell them I'm looking for in this draft RB's, OG, WR, LB's . and since they knew his preference in what he liked in players they did not look for them specefically?


now I'm sure they also brought in others that may fit his scheme.

I can't believe they looked hard at the top flight OLINE guys till Clady was needed. they looked for bargains that most others passed on.

I fail to believe that all of the players they had scouted were candidates for Joshes desires.

Come on Frau your better than this you know what mike drafted and it seemed almost 180 DEGREES from what Josh did.

You completely missed the point. You said Jim and Jeff Goodman did not scout what McDaniels asked them to. I called BS. That has ZERO to do with what players Shanahan asked them to be looking for.

ALSO, Jim Goodman was the freaking GM. He was not even scouting.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth.

Poet
01-25-2010, 02:50 AM
i won't get into a lengthy argument
Yeah, so this is probably a big waste of time.




but there are more than you listed. . . trevor pryce is a me player, take it from a denver fan. . . and ray lewis is a bigtime me player-- dude has spent his whole career bitching about his contract, and making demands on the front office. . . the fact that they've mostly humored him has kept the situation from boiling over. . . hell, he publicly demanded that they upgrade the D-tackles in front of him the year they drafted ngata. . . just because he's a beast on the field and a team leader doesn't mean he isn't as selfish as the next guy when the chips are on the line. . .
Pryce is, that is true. Ray Lewis, not so much. He's been the leader of that franchise since day one. I refuse to believe that a guy who gives his heart and soul to his franchise is a me-player. He gives a lot of his time and money to that city as well. In fact, Ray Lewis is basically Baltimore football. His actions for his team indicate he isn't a me player. I also don't recall him demanding that, but I'll take your word for it.


and the vikes don't have any me players? how about the diva who held green bay hostage for years with his public retirement dramas?

Favre isn't a me player. To be fair to him, GB screwed him just as much as he screwed them. I don't think Favre is a me-player when he will go out there and give it his all and play hurt for his team. He's a douchebag, but he's a team player. Yes, his antics and drama gets old real quick. That being said, he proved he could play at an elite level still, so why shouldn't he have come back? He didn't endear himself to anyone when he basically skipped minicamp, but also he was courted by Minnesota. That was a monster that they both built.


and wait and see whether dockett or dansby hold out this year before calling them "team players". . .

I didn't call them team players, but I think it shows how weak your argument is for those two when you're bringing them up and there's nothing to indicate that they will hold out.



are any of those teams full of prima donnas? nah. . . but plenty of guys get selfish when they think they're underpaid. . .

I have a tolerance for the guys who are actually underpaid for their worth on the field. It didn't bother me when Andre Smith held out because I knew that Mike Brown was trying to give him a crappy deal. I didn't really care when Hines Ward held out for Pittsburgh because he was drastically underpaid.

However, most of the really good teams have a stable locker room. Now I dare you or anyone else to even TRY to tell me that guys like Marshall are good for any locker room, because history shows they aren't, especially at THAT position.

Also, I'll point out that those guys you highlighted never have been suspended, had real legal issues while IN the NFL (Ray Lewis is..well..Ray Lewis) and I don't recall any of them other than maybe Pryce quitting on their team.

Lonestar
01-25-2010, 02:55 AM
You completely missed the point. You said Jim and Jeff Goodman did not scout what McDaniels asked them to. I called BS. That has ZERO to do with what players Shanahan asked them to be looking for.

ALSO, Jim Goodman was the freaking GM. He was not even scouting.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth.


I guess I missed that in your post as it is late.

before Jim goodman as promoted he did indeed scout and he was the one that scouted the area that Jay came from. when mike left IIRC he was promoted to co GM with X man. could be wrong there but he was an active scout till then, his son IIRC scouted the NW area of the US.

The scouts are told what to look for maybe not which players to look at but they knew what mike wanted, all of the scouts did not just goodmans

If they were looking for X before mike left and then were told by Josh he did not want X but we now needed Y to go back and re do the scouting reports and prioritize them for Y. I'm guessing that was one of the BIG reasons we did not have many Y players on the war room wall.

With all of the caious going on after mike left, hiring coaches evaluating existing players, policies I can almost see why we did not have a bigger quiver to draw from on draft day.

Make no sense to draft a player you know that will not fit. oR could not beat out an existing player.

Northman
01-25-2010, 06:04 AM
In case you forgot, Nolan wasn't fired.

It was mutual.

Really? Wow, i would of never guessed.


If a headcoach brings in someone thinking they're going to do one thing, but instead do another, you don't think that headcoach has the right to say something?

So, you telling me that Nolan was bucking the system and McD had zero clue of how Nolan runs his defense? Evidently, run blitzing is something that Nolan does within his scheme so there was no surprise there. Its not about McD not having a right to say something. Its about McD not understanding that Nolan did the best with what he had to work with. But then again, if by what some of the other posters are saying is that McD was just as responsible for the defensive woes as Nolan than who really gets the blame here?


I've never seen a coordinator tell the headcoach how to run his team. Evidently you have?

Im not sure why you even brought this up as ive never stated such.

Dirk
01-25-2010, 08:14 AM
You know, I get so tired of all the crap that is spewed some times.

I made this board my ONLY forum that I belong to because each of you in your own right have a lot to contribute. But some times it irks me to read them.

McD gets the blame for everything because he is the HC. It has always been that way and always will be that way.

But you have to take a step back and look at the big picture some times.

People want to hold McD accountable for his job. As people should. But people don't want to hold Nolan accountable for his job.

Just because Nolan is a big name that McD brought in here doesn't mean anything. Results on the field account for everything.

In the first 6 games the defense looked great. In the last 10 games the defense looked like a below average defense. In the last 3 games they were down right dreadful.

If Nolan was so great as a lot of you are saying, then why did his defense look like a high school team in the KC game to close the year out? Why couldn't they stop JaFatty? Why couldn't they stop Philly? And why did they let Charles rack up so many yards?

I would have been fine with Nolan getting another year or two to try and bring the defense around to a top 10. Just like a lot of you.

I am fine with giving McD another year or two to try and bring it all together. Unlike a lot of you.

The big picture is to build a solid team on both sides of the ball. And like it or not, that is what McD is trying to do.

Now, if McD doesn't address the pressing need for good quality BIG, STRONG, SMART linemen on both sides of the ball this offseason including the draft. I will be shaking my head and moaning and groaning.

But I will back McD for the next 2 years while he tries to implement his ideas to the team. If there are not enough strides made, I will be just as upset as some of you.

But please get over it already and give the man the time to try and make it happen. He did get the team to 8-8 in his first year with the debacle that was the offseason and the way Nolan's defense fizzled out in the latter part of the season.

claymore
01-25-2010, 09:04 AM
FWIW I'm going to go on record and say that Josh will get as many seasons in DEN that Pat allows and that it is up to him to make those decisions.

Not a bunch of MMQB's.

/END

:rolleyes:

turftoad
01-25-2010, 10:53 AM
From the Post:


• The perception that McDaniels is difficult to work with. "I think it's a mistake," McDaniels said. "The same person people liked when we were 6-0 is the same person that's sitting in that chair in that office who's now 8-8. We've gone through adversity, and there's been some issues. I didn't change what I was doing. I didn't change how I was coaching. I didn't change how I was conducting meetings.
"The bottom line is once we get everything going in the right direction with all the right people, this is the philosophy that absolutely works. I've seen it.
"You're right: People want to say things, but no, I'm not hard to work with. The 99 percent of people I work with and get along with very well, they know what the heck is going on inside the Denver Broncos' building. People who have had an issue with me, or I've had an issue with, there's a reason. I'm not going to let things happen that shouldn't happen. If that's what people want, then maybe we disagree."


• Mike Nolan's departure. There had been speculation the defensive coordinator left the Broncos in large part because McDaniels was going to strip him of his trademark zone blitz on run downs.
"Anything regarding 'I wouldn't let him do that, I wouldn't let him do this' is totally false," McDaniels said. "It was mutual. I think it's best for all of us. The defensive philosophy that we use, that's ours. That's not going anywhere. It's our second year in the system, and we'll continue to do better. I have a lot of respect for Mike, and I wish him well. But I think this is going to be the best thing for the Broncos and the best thing for Mike Nolan. I think everybody wins in this."


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14256207#ixzz0dWe1GqNv

Just the fact that he felt the need to address this and defend himself on the subject is an admital of guilt to me.

Otherwise, you just let it go.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2010, 10:54 AM
Last night, Ryan Harris was on All Access with Reggie Rivers. Thru the discussion, he was complimentary of Coach McD, and it was not because he was ask direct questions, which would either have required him to say something positive, or negative.

Here is link: http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=67125@kcnc.dayport.com

turftoad
01-25-2010, 11:03 AM
Last night, Ryan Harris was on All Access with Reggie Rivers. Thru the discussion, he was complimentary of Coach McD, and it was not because he was ask direct questions, which would either have required him to say something positive, or negative.

Here is link: http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=67125@kcnc.dayport.com

What the hell is supposed to say?? You say something (Like Sheff did) and all sudden you're on the trading block. :tsk:

Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2010, 11:17 AM
What the hell is supposed to say?? You say something (Like Sheff did) and all sudden you're on the trading block. :tsk:

Come on turf - around the 3:00 mark, Reggie ask Ryan if they were doing zone blocking, and Ryan answered "combination of both - Coach did a great job mixing in both - what had been successful for him as mixing in what had been comfortable for us". Could Ryan just have answered - "combination of both", and that would have answered Reggie's question? Ryan did NOT have to say anything in regards to what he did about Coach McD

turftoad
01-25-2010, 11:37 AM
Come on turf - around the 3:00 mark, Reggie ask Ryan if they were doing zone blocking, and Ryan answered "combination of both - Coach did a great job mixing in both - what had been successful for him as mixing in what had been comfortable for us". Could Ryan just have answered - "combination of both", and that would have answered Reggie's question? Ryan did NOT have to say anything in regards to what he did about Coach McD

We didn't have success in the run game last year. Teams were not scared of Orton so they concentrated on stopping the run. We did not succeed.

I'm sorry. I do not have my orange tinted glasses on or refuse to be a Bronco hommer when I DO NOT like pretty much anything Josh McD has done since taking over this team. He's turned a respectable team into a national laughing stock. If you don't beleive me go look at some other teams boards or listen to the media. It sickens me.

The 6-0 start was nothing but a fluke, the second half of the season is more of what I predicted from the start. I'm pretty sure we'll much more of that come next season.
He's tearing this team up from the inside out. It's reminds me of watching a reality show.
I don't think we turn things around until the head coach is changed.
I want the best for MY Broncos.

McD is not the best answer IMO.

Northman
01-25-2010, 12:07 PM
You know, I get so tired of all the crap that is spewed some times.

I made this board my ONLY forum that I belong to because each of you in your own right have a lot to contribute. But some times it irks me to read them.

McD gets the blame for everything because he is the HC. It has always been that way and always will be that way.

But you have to take a step back and look at the big picture some times.

People want to hold McD accountable for his job. As people should. But people don't want to hold Nolan accountable for his job.

Just because Nolan is a big name that McD brought in here doesn't mean anything. Results on the field account for everything.

In the first 6 games the defense looked great. In the last 10 games the defense looked like a below average defense. In the last 3 games they were down right dreadful.

If Nolan was so great as a lot of you are saying, then why did his defense look like a high school team in the KC game to close the year out? Why couldn't they stop JaFatty? Why couldn't they stop Philly? And why did they let Charles rack up so many yards?

I would have been fine with Nolan getting another year or two to try and bring the defense around to a top 10. Just like a lot of you.

I am fine with giving McD another year or two to try and bring it all together. Unlike a lot of you.

The big picture is to build a solid team on both sides of the ball. And like it or not, that is what McD is trying to do.

Now, if McD doesn't address the pressing need for good quality BIG, STRONG, SMART linemen on both sides of the ball this offseason including the draft. I will be shaking my head and moaning and groaning.

But I will back McD for the next 2 years while he tries to implement his ideas to the team. If there are not enough strides made, I will be just as upset as some of you.

But please get over it already and give the man the time to try and make it happen. He did get the team to 8-8 in his first year with the debacle that was the offseason and the way Nolan's defense fizzled out in the latter part of the season.

Well, you mean he got the team to 2-8. The 6-0 belongs to Nolan right? I mean, i know your frustrated with some of the things that made me frustrated early on. However, in your arguement here your all over the board. You come out and say that everyone should give McD more time but then on the other hand are quick to sell Nolan out the door when even HE didnt have all the players that he needed to make this defense what it needs to be. So tell me, where is the fairness in that? Also keep in mind that at the end of day the HC is responsible for what happens with the team. This is the reason Shanahan was eventually cut loose. As ive stated a hundred times here lately, McD is going to get his chance. Nothing anybody says on this forum is going to change that. But i know in my case im pretty skeptical right now that he can even repeat what he did last year because that guy your so quick to sell down the river was a major part of the reason McD even ended up 8-8 to begin with. So while Nolan's defense sucked half of the year McD's offense sucked the entire season. And i think its this kind of stuff that you posted that gets under everyone else's skin because rather than criticize the entire team you want to keep laying excuses at McD's feet. McD is far from perfect and he is equally responsible for the troubles that plagued Denver last year. Thats not fiction, thats fact.

T.K.O.
01-25-2010, 12:09 PM
so now if you are accused of anything....and you say thats not true at all....that means you are guilty because you bothered to dispute the accusations?
wow ,welcome to america in 2000's nice.....real nice !
another thing about the draft picks we "wasted" last year,did you guys consider that we have several high profile free agents to sign?combine that with multiple 1st rounders and you can kiss doom marshall and a couple more of your favorite broncos goodbye.
if the fo had kept 2 firsts and likely aquired another in a trade we would have to can 1/2 our top guys to pay a bunch of rooks ,which is ALWAYS a gamble.
and then all the haters would be saying "why the %$%#@ did mcdummy keep all those picks we cant afford them and they're gonna hold out !:confused::elefant:

turftoad
01-25-2010, 12:17 PM
so now if you are accused of anything....and you say thats not true at all....that means you are guilty because you bothered to dispute the accusations?
wow ,welcome to america in 2000's nice.....real nice !
another thing about the draft picks we "wasted" last year,did you guys consider that we have several high profile free agents to sign?combine that with multiple 1st rounders and you can kiss doom marshall and a couple more of your favorite broncos goodbye.
if the fo had kept 2 firsts and likely aquired another in a trade we would have to can 1/2 our top guys to pay a bunch of rooks ,which is ALWAYS a gamble.
and then all the haters would be saying "why the %$%#@ did mcdummy keep all those picks we cant afford them and they're gonna hold out !:confused::elefant:

He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone. He's flailing.

T.K.O.
01-25-2010, 12:24 PM
He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone. He's flailing.

i'm sure you would never defend yourself ? if someone accuses you of something that "is not true" why the hell would keep quiet and hope it goes away...especially when every statement made about a subject is plastered on a hundred websites in this day and age ?
that makes 0 sense,if he keeps quiet people would say "it must be true he has no rebuttle" if he says its bull...well we see how some interpret it.
insane....just insane.
guilty until proven innocent huh?.....but dont try and prove yourself innocent either
:laugh:

Dirk
01-25-2010, 12:27 PM
Well, you mean he got the team to 2-8. The 6-0 belongs to Nolan right? I mean, i know your frustrated with some of the things that made me frustrated early on. However, in your arguement here your all over the board. You come out and say that everyone should give McD more time but then on the other hand are quick to sell Nolan out the door when even HE didnt have all the players that he needed to make this defense what it needs to be. So tell me, where is the fairness in that? Also keep in mind that at the end of day the HC is responsible for what happens with the team. This is the reason Shanahan was eventually cut loose. As ive stated a hundred times here lately, McD is going to get his chance. Nothing anybody says on this forum is going to change that. But i know in my case im pretty skeptical right now that he can even repeat what he did last year because that guy your so quick to sell down the river was a major part of the reason McD even ended up 8-8 to begin with. So while Nolan's defense sucked half of the year McD's offense sucked the entire season. And i think its this kind of stuff that you posted that gets under everyone else's skin because rather than criticize the entire team you want to keep laying excuses at McD's feet. McD is far from perfect and he is equally responsible for the troubles that plagued Denver last year. Thats not fiction, thats fact.

Twice I said in my post that McD should be accountable for where the team is. He is the HC.

My point was (and I didn't explain it well) is that people want to throw McD under the bus, but are fine with Nolan's job which declined as well.

It's just a double standard. That was my point.

Besides, I still blame you for the start of the whole thing. You and your first game. :tsk:

turftoad
01-25-2010, 12:28 PM
i'm sure you would never defend yourself ? if someone accuses you of something that "is not true" why the hell would keep quiet and hope it goes away...especially when every statement made about a subject is plastered on a hundred websites in this day and age ?
that makes 0 sense,if he keeps quiet people would say "it must be true he has no rebuttle" if he says its bull...well we see how some interpret it.
insane....just insane.
guilty until proven innocent huh?.....but dont try and prove yourself innocent either
:laugh:

If it didn't have some truth, the question wouldn't even be out there.

turftoad
01-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Twice I said in my post that McD should be accountable for where the team is. He is the HC.

My point was (and I didn't explain it well) is that people want to throw McD under the bus, but are fine with Nolan's job which declined as well.

It's just a double standard. That was my point.

Besides, I still blame you for the start of the whole thing. You and your first game. :tsk:

With the talent Nolan had, he did it with smoke and mirrors the first 6 games. After that, the lack of talent reared it's ugly head.
He did a great job with the talent he had to work with.

TXBRONC
01-25-2010, 12:33 PM
i'm sure you would never defend yourself ? if someone accuses you of something that "is not true" why the hell would keep quiet and hope it goes away...especially when every statement made about a subject is plastered on a hundred websites in this day and age ?
that makes 0 sense,if he keeps quiet people would say "it must be true he has no rebuttle" if he says its bull...well we see how some interpret it.
insane....just insane.
guilty until proven innocent huh?.....but dont try and prove yourself innocent either
:laugh:

Why did you have to bring in an allism? Turf did not say that you should never defend yourself. He's saying that McDaniels was making a bigger issue of it than was needed. Kind of like those who rush defend McDaniels over every little criticism that comes his way.

Northman
01-25-2010, 12:33 PM
Twice I said in my post that McD should be accountable for where the team is. He is the HC.

My point was (and I didn't explain it well) is that people want to throw McD under the bus, but are fine with Nolan's job which declined as well.

It's just a double standard. That was my point.

Besides, I still blame you for the start of the whole thing. You and your first game. :tsk:

Well, now we are talking. I can jinx anything if you give me enough ammo. :lol:

T.K.O.
01-25-2010, 12:41 PM
Why did you have to bring in an allism? Turf did not say that you should never defend yourself. He's saying that McDaniels was making a bigger issue of it than was needed. Kind of like those who rush defend McDaniels over every little criticism that comes his way.

you read that from this ?

"He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone."

i think you might be..." rushing to defend every little criticism that comes his way"
i just hope you huys are'nt lawyers....cuz somebody would be screwed:laugh:

turftoad
01-25-2010, 12:45 PM
you read that from this ?

"He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone."

i think you might be..." rushing to defend every little criticism that comes his way"
i just hope you huys are'nt lawyers....cuz somebody would be screwed:laugh:

Lawyers????? this isn't the court of law.

TXBRONC
01-25-2010, 12:56 PM
you read that from this ?

"He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone."

i think you might be..." rushing to defend every little criticism that comes his way"
i just hope you huys are'nt lawyers....cuz somebody would be screwed:laugh:

Oh really I've been quick to defend every little criticism? Care to back that up with some facts? For last several weeks I pretty much stayed out it.

T.K.O.
01-25-2010, 01:03 PM
Oh really I've been quick to defend every little criticism? Care to back that up with some facts? For last several weeks I pretty much stayed out it.

here ya go.....
"Why did you have to bring in an allism? Turf did not say that you should never defend yourself. He's saying that McDaniels was making a bigger issue of it than was needed. Kind of like those who rush defend McDaniels over every little criticism that comes his way. "

i'm not here to get into pety arguements.i was merely saying that i thought it was absurd to say if someone tries to defend themselves against accusations.....bang thats proof they are guilty and that IS what was said !
good day sir:salute:

Dreadnought
01-25-2010, 01:30 PM
He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone. He's flailing.

I've worked for some great bosses in my life, and some real dingleberries as well. I guarantee if you have ever heard a new boss say "I'm easy to get along with" that the exact opposite is true. This is the battle-cry of the out of his depth douchebag and dishonest wannabe tough guy. Its like hearing a used car salesman say "trust me", because your immediate response should be to think the opposite. The good guys and good bosses don't need to affirm it.

NightTrainLayne
01-25-2010, 01:36 PM
I've worked for some great bosses in my life, and some real dingleberries as well. I guarantee if you have ever heard a new boss say "I'm easy to get along with" that the exact opposite is true. This is the battle-cry of the out of his depth douchebag and dishonest wannabe tough guy. Its like hearing a used car salesman say "trust me", because your immediate response should be to think the opposite. The good guys and good bosses don't need to affirm it.

I think it would be fair to point out the context of this comment.

This was not made at a team-meeting directed towards players and staff. Instead, it is in answer to a direct query from a reporter from outside the organization.

I totally get what your point is, and I tend to agree with it as it generally applies to people. But when it's a response to a reporter's question instead of a plea for players or staff to buy in, I think that it's hard to apply in that context.

claymore
01-25-2010, 02:17 PM
Broncos suspected tampering, but were happy to let Nolan go
Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2010 1:56 PM ET
A week after Broncos defensive coordinator Mike Nolan left the team, details are still trickling out regarding the circumstances that led to his 24-hour journey from Denver to Miami. (Or was it Milan to Minsk?)

Per a league source, the Broncos immediately suspected upon receiving a form requesting permission to interview Nolan for the same job in Miami that the Dolphins had been talking to Nolan, which would be a clear violation of the tampering rules.

But the source says the Broncos didn't care, because they were ready to part ways with Nolan. Nolan and coach Josh McDaniels were "too much alike," the source said, and so they routinely butted heads.

So, as Jason La Canfora of NFL.com recently reported, the split didn't occur because McDaniels told Nolan that the Broncos were going to stop blitzing, but because McDaniels and Nolan simply could no longer coexist. Miami's attempt to hire Nolan simply provided both sides with an escape route.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2010, 02:32 PM
just found a few more tidbits in regards to Dolphins tampering - both in this article:

http://www.thephins.com/2010/01/19/did-the-dolphins-tamper-with-mike-nolan/


"No tampering evidence yet. But this Dolphins regime tends to bend rules. It did so with the Ayodele/Fasano trade and does so w/ injuries."

AND -

"Would the Dolphins even know to tamper with Nolan if they didn’t first get word that he wanted out of Denver?"

WARHORSE
01-25-2010, 02:37 PM
Broncos suspected tampering, but were happy to let Nolan go
Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2010 1:56 PM ET
A week after Broncos defensive coordinator Mike Nolan left the team, details are still trickling out regarding the circumstances that led to his 24-hour journey from Denver to Miami. (Or was it Milan to Minsk?)

Per a league source, the Broncos immediately suspected upon receiving a form requesting permission to interview Nolan for the same job in Miami that the Dolphins had been talking to Nolan, which would be a clear violation of the tampering rules.

But the source says the Broncos didn't care, because they were ready to part ways with Nolan. Nolan and coach Josh McDaniels were "too much alike," the source said, and so they routinely butted heads.

So, as Jason La Canfora of NFL.com recently reported, the split didn't occur because McDaniels told Nolan that the Broncos were going to stop blitzing, but because McDaniels and Nolan simply could no longer coexist. Miami's attempt to hire Nolan simply provided both sides with an escape route.



SOOOO...................that means that Nolan approached Miami and specifically told them....."I am NOT available as a DC!!!" (wink wink)

spikerman
01-25-2010, 06:25 PM
So what were the results of the draft?

were any of the busts and were cut summarily ? No, but there were no standout players either.


Any of them arrested or got suspended? So that's your standard for a poor draft pick?



Any of the RB's drafted not lead the league in yardage for rookies?
Big deal. He was the first running back taken in the draft. It takes an average of 62.5 yards per game to get to 1000 and he couldn't even do that. I expect more from the #12 pick overall.


Did not most of them contribute at least on ST's? They had better. The next step is bagging groceries.


Unless I missed something all of them played in games this year. Some only saw slightly more playing time than me.


None were benched IIRC. Explain "benched". Smith, Ayers, and Quinn were healthy scratches multiple times this season. To me that's the same as being benched. Not to mention Smith having his job taken away from a guy that's MUCH older than him AND a guy who wasn't drafted and was signed off the practice squad.


So what was so bad, that all of them were not instant staters and made the pro bowl?
There were no Clady's, Marshall's, Harris', or Williams' either. Nobody in this draft screams "star".


Ayers was moved to OLB where most teams had him pegged for, after a career at DE hand in the ground 4-3. Did he not get some time to learn it? For the #18 pick you expect more. Cushing who was picked lower seemed to do fine. Sure he was an LB in college, but at #18 I would expect him to have much better stats.


Moreno while IMHO we did not need a RB, he did in fact lead all rookies in yards in a part time role. I agree that the team did not need an RB and that's part of my problem with this draft. Why do you blow the #12 pick on a position that was not your greatest need?


Smith came from a small school with ball hawking skills. to return kicks play dime CB. Yet I suspect you thought he should be a starter at perhaps the second hardest position on the team to learn. I didn't expect him to be a starter. I wouldn't have expected him to be on this team. It's not that the Broncos drafted him that bothers me, it's the price they paid to draft him.


Quinn is a Maybe, not sure what eh plans are there but I'm willing to give the coach who KNOWS that plans a break and allow him more than 16 games to implement it. Sorry, I'm not on the McDaniels is a mastermind bandwagon yet. I'm not convinced he KNOWS what he's doing.


I saw nor catastrophe in the draft like some did. In fact I saw most of it as building blocks for the future.
This doesn't surprise me at all. You defend McDaniels with the same vigor with which you used to attack Shanahan. It's your perrogative of course. I guess we've eached switched positions on the head coach. Again, I would LOVE for McDaniels to prove me wrong and I will happily come back and publicly eat crow if he does. PLEASE J McD PROVE ME WRONG, PLEASE!

Lonestar
01-25-2010, 07:07 PM
So what were the results of the draft?
were any of the busts and were cut summarily ?


No, but there were no standout players either.

SO all draft choices have to stand out every year?




Any of them arrested or got suspended? So that's

your standard for a poor draft pick?

No but it was an improvement over years past



Any of the RB's drafted not lead the league in yardage for rookies?


Big deal. He was the first running back taken in the draft. It takes an average of 62.5 yards per game to get to 1000 and he couldn't even do that. I expect more from the #12 pick overall.

Normally I would also but considering the massive changes in scheme and persoannle, as well as having a player like Bucky next to him, I give him a pass, this year.


Did not most of them contribute at least on ST's?

They had better. The next step is bagging groceries.

only if your Kurt before he made it big :D

or now tater


Unless I missed something all of them played in games this year.


Some only saw slightly more playing time than me.

Again in a change/rebuilding year I did not expect much more than we saw


None were benched IIRC.

Explain "benched". Smith, Ayers, and Quinn were healthy scratches multiple times this season. To me that's the same as being benched. Not to mention Smith having his job taken away from a guy that's MUCH older than him AND a guy who wasn't drafted and was signed off the practice squad.


Benched Scheffler and marshall for conduct unbecoming a teammate.


So what was so bad, that all of them were not instant staters and made the pro bowl?


There were no Clady's, Marshall's, Harris', or Williams' either. Nobody in this draft screams "star".


Ayers was moved to OLB where most teams had him pegged for, after a career at DE hand in the ground 4-3. Did he not get some time to learn it?

For the #18 pick you expect more. Cushing who was picked lower seemed to do fine. Sure he was an LB in college, but at #18 I would expect him to have much better stats.

Yep changing from a hand in the dirt DE to someone playing in space, I expected him to play some more also, but understand he is adjusting to a new world, proball, new scheme no one but the DC knows, playing next to folks that he has never played next to before.


Moreno while IMHO we did not need a RB, he did in fact lead all rookies in yards in a part time role.

I agree that the team did not need an RB and that's part of my problem with this draft. Why do you blow the #12 pick on a position that was not your greatest need?

I agree with your agreement I would have rather had a NT (for the 7th or 8th consecutive year)


Smith came from a small school with ball hawking skills. to return kicks play dime CB. Yet I suspect you thought he should be a starter at perhaps the second hardest position on the team to learn.

I didn't expect him to be a starter. I wouldn't have expected him to be on this team. It's not that the Broncos drafted him that bothers me, it's the price they paid to draft him.


Quinn is a Maybe, not sure what eh plans are there but I'm willing to give the coach who KNOWS that plans a break and allow him more than 16 games to implement it.

Sorry, I'm not on the McDaniels is a mastermind bandwagon yet. I'm not convinced he KNOWS what he's doing.

Your God given inherent right just like mine to believe he is not the scum of the earth like some try to make him.


I saw nor catastrophe in the draft like some did. In fact I saw most of it as building blocks for the future.
This doesn't surprise me at all. You defend McDaniels with the same vigor with which you used to attack Shanahan. It's your perrogative of course. I guess we've eached switched positions on the head coach. Again, I would LOVE for McDaniels to prove me wrong and I will happily come back and publicly eat crow if he does. PLEASE J McD PROVE ME WRONG, PLEASE!

I Attacked mike the GM, rarely if ever did I diss him for coaching defencencies and we all know there were many to talk about.

spikerman
01-25-2010, 07:15 PM
Benched Scheffler and marshall for conduct unbecoming a teammate.

Yeah, those were tough, but I was focusing on the draft picks.



I agree with your agreement I would have rather had a NT (for the 7th or 8th consecutive year) Could not agree with you more here.




Your God given inherent right just like mine to believe he is not the scum of the earth like some try to make him. I don't believe he's anything worse than a young coach who may be in over his head.



I Attacked mike the GM, rarely if ever did I diss him for coaching defencencies and we all know there were many to talk about.
I wasn't a fan of Shanahan the GM either, although I was/am a HUGE fan of Shanahan the coach.

Cugel
01-25-2010, 07:27 PM
This is the most important statement in the entire article. The funny thing is, it holds true for EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. If I was a head coach who could get ALL the people I wanted to play and coach my team, I'd win a superbowl every year. This is an extremely arrogant and naive statement. The job of the HC is to win with what he's got. No coach gets everything he wants in the way of personnel.

NO SHIT JOSH! Anyone can win with "all the right people"! Because this is unattainable in the NFL, this statement alone tells me that no matter what, Josh will always use this as an excuse for failure if he does in fact fail. "I just don't have all the right people around me, therefore, it's someone else's fault."

It may not even be what he meant, but it's absolutely what he said which displays once again his lack of experience and maturity. Every time this guy opens his mouth to the press, he puts his foot in it and makes the organization look bad, too.

Ironically, that was Wade Phillips' excuse after two crappy seasons in Denver too. :coffee:

He blamed injuries and said that once he got "his players" he would win. He also said that "Pat Bowlen understands what happened." Well, Pat did. He fired Phillips about 1 week later.

I'd say Bowlen is a bottom line guy. Probably the smartest thing I've heard about the Broncos season was in answer to a question about how much Bowlen likes McDaniels now:


A: "Well he probably likes him less than he did when they were 6-0, but if you put him up against a wall he'd probably say: 'Ask me again after next season.'"

It makes perfect sense to give a guy 2 seasons to produce -- and then hold him accountable by firing him if he doesn't.

You get 2 years to produce a winner. Perhaps if the Broncos had been a 4-12 or 6-10 team going in he might be a bit more patient and give him 3 years.

But, the team was 8-8 or 9-7 or at worst 7-9 every year under Shanahan except the year they were 13-3 and lost the AFC Championship to the Steelers.

It was a team that had some great players, and some good players on offense, but horrible players on defense.

McDaniels is completely delusional if he thinks he's going to get plenty of time to totally uproot the team and start all over with "his" players and "his system."

He's got THIS year. Period. I'd say: "win 10 games or you're done." NO further excuses.

So, firing Mike Nolan and bringing in the Patriots DC better work out for you Josh. Or else! :coffee:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-25-2010, 07:39 PM
So, firing Mike Nolan and bringing in the Patriots DC better work out for you Josh. Or else! :coffee:

Or else what, Cugel? If McDaniels gets fired, he still gets PAID. We get left with a new coach and even less talent and he gets to walk away scott free and go take a coordinator job somewhere else while getting paid the remainder of his HC contract.

If there was only some way to make him stay until he fixed the team and only pay him based on his performance...Damn, no such luck.

rcsodak
01-26-2010, 12:01 AM
Really? Wow, i would of never guessed. Good. Glad I could help out.


So, you telling me that Nolan was bucking the system and McD had zero clue of how Nolan runs his defense? Evidently, run blitzing is something that Nolan does within his scheme so there was no surprise there. Its not about McD not having a right to say something. Its about McD not understanding that Nolan did the best with what he had to work with. But then again, if by what some of the other posters are saying is that McD was just as responsible for the defensive woes as Nolan than who really gets the blame here? How do you know that McD didn't tell Nolan "hey, it's not working, drop it" and Nolan didn't?
You McD haters just follow your own perceptions of what you think happened, blame it on McD, and rip into him. Oh if life were so simple. :coffee:




Im not sure why you even brought this up as ive never stated such.


The fact that Nolan was able to make wine out of water tells me that McD jumped the gun without giving Nolan a chance to get "his" guys in place for his defense. Because it sure looks like your belief is McD didn't have the 'right' to change DC's. Is that not correct?

rcsodak
01-26-2010, 12:06 AM
Just the fact that he felt the need to address this and defend himself on the subject is an admital of guilt to me.

Otherwise, you just let it go.

So he should have just said "no comment", or "none of your beeswax"?

Yea....THAT wouldn't have created a firestorm in here, now would it! :rolleyes:

rcsodak
01-26-2010, 12:10 AM
He, again, showed his immaturity by even answering the question. He was defending himself. Why? Must have been bothering him.
If it's not true, leave the subject alone. He's flailing.

Do you pick your nose and eat the boogers?

1. If you ignore this, it MUST be true

2. If you address it, you MUST be immature by even answering it


Gotcha....thx.

:coffee:

rcsodak
01-26-2010, 12:12 AM
If it didn't have some truth, the question wouldn't even be out there.

So you DO eat your boogers!!!!!!

rcsodak
01-26-2010, 12:18 AM
With the talent Nolan had, he did it with smoke and mirrors the first 6 games. After that, the lack of talent reared it's ugly head.
He did a great job with the talent he had to work with.

BS.

He didn't have the capability to ADJUST to the offenses that figured his defense out.

Give me a break.

He didn't have the worst players in the league, but they sure played like it in the latter stages of the season.
The secondary held up it's end of the bargain. The run D/pass rush disappeared.

Fields was HIS GUY! He talked McD into bringing him in.

Nolan Constantly left the outside open for big gains on the ground. Every team attacked the outside. He couldn't make an adjustment?

I think the 49ers D was better THIS year without him than while he was there.

rcsodak
01-26-2010, 12:25 AM
I've worked for some great bosses in my life, and some real dingleberries as well. I guarantee if you have ever heard a new boss say "I'm easy to get along with" that the exact opposite is true. This is the battle-cry of the out of his depth douchebag and dishonest wannabe tough guy. Its like hearing a used car salesman say "trust me", because your immediate response should be to think the opposite. The good guys and good bosses don't need to affirm it.

Was he asked a direct question about that?

And sure glad you're not showing a predisposed bias against him.

I'm sure ya'll would rather have had a soft spoken, older gentleman as HC.

...no ruffled feathers....lots of hugging....crying....

Mabye they should bring in Dick Vermeil. :coffee:

Shazam!
01-26-2010, 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by Dreadnought
I've worked for some great bosses in my life, and some real dingleberries as well. I guarantee if you have ever heard a new boss say "I'm easy to get along with" that the exact opposite is true.

I actually had a boss tell me when I was hired "I won't be on your case, you'll like it here" and he was right. Had a good relationship for 7 years before he got transfered and I left.

Lonestar
01-26-2010, 05:22 AM
You know every job I've had the boss always told me to do my job, keep my nose clean and he/she would never be in my face.

They defined the job description every time and I either did the numbers they gave me or exceeded them.

I wonder if Nolan got that same chit chat when he came on board, Mike this is the job description, do the job, keep you nose clean and stay out of my grille and we will get along just fine.:D

Northman
01-26-2010, 07:28 AM
How do you know that McD didn't tell Nolan "hey, it's not working, drop it" and Nolan didn't? You McD haters just follow your own perceptions of what you think happened, blame it on McD, and rip into him. Oh if life were so simple.

Im not a McD hater. Up until the Nolan incident ive given him nothing but support. Nice try though.


Because it sure looks like your belief is McD didn't have the 'right' to change DC's. Is that not correct?

Never said that. Again, reading comprehension mate. Work on it and get back to me. :coffee:

frenchfan
01-26-2010, 07:45 AM
Im not a McD hater. Up until the Nolan incident ive given him nothing but support. North... I know you did support McD during the season... No doubt about that.

I too am mad that Nolan is gone... But I don't really know if it's because of McD...

IMO, they had a "work" relationship... May be they had their disagrement and both thought it was better to stop now... May be The Fins have something to do in the story too...

Do you think it was easy to work with Shanny, or Dan Reeves and so on? The HC is the HC... he takes the final decisions and will take responsability about that. he is the boss... I don't like all the decisions of my boss but I accept them (or I leave)... I may debate sometimes or give advices when I think I have to. That's my job too... Sometimes my boss will listen, sometimes not... That doesn't mean he is hard to work with or not... It's just a "work" relationship...

Now, I will watch how our Broncos will do next year... And I tell you something... As much as I don't blame McD for Nolan I want to see improvement next year... Again, that doesn't mean we should be better than 8-8... but I want to see a better O, a D that can play a season... I want quality players who play heart and guts for our team. I want a spirited team... This is what I need to see... If there is nothing of that next year, then I wouldn't mind seeing McD gone too... If we are in the right way, then in 2/3 season will be playing again a major role in the AFC... if not... bye bye McD...

/thread? :D

56crash
01-26-2010, 01:01 PM
This is the most important statement in the entire article. The funny thing is, it holds true for EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. If I was a head coach who could get ALL the people I wanted to play and coach my team, I'd win a superbowl every year. This is an extremely arrogant and naive statement. The job of the HC is to win with what he's got. No coach gets everything he wants in the way of personnel.

NO SHIT JOSH! Anyone can win with "all the right people"! Because this is unattainable in the NFL, this statement alone tells me that no matter what, Josh will always use this as an excuse for failure if he does in fact fail. "I just don't have all the right people around me, therefore, it's someone else's fault."

It may not even be what he meant, but it's absolutely what he said which displays once again his lack of experience and maturity. Every time this guy opens his mouth to the press, he puts his foot in it and makes the organization look bad, too.

Post of the year for me . thing is we a ****** for at least 3 or 4 years. He is stripping talent away. and killing what little cemistry we had as a team . we are darn close to being the KC chiefs of 3 years ago...

shank
01-26-2010, 01:13 PM
"I'm not hard to work with, everyone else is."

Northman
01-26-2010, 01:55 PM
North... I know you did support McD during the season... No doubt about that.

I too am mad that Nolan is gone... But I don't really know if it's because of McD...

IMO, they had a "work" relationship... May be they had their disagrement and both thought it was better to stop now... May be The Fins have something to do in the story too...

Do you think it was easy to work with Shanny, or Dan Reeves and so on? The HC is the HC... he takes the final decisions and will take responsability about that. he is the boss... I don't like all the decisions of my boss but I accept them (or I leave)... I may debate sometimes or give advices when I think I have to. That's my job too... Sometimes my boss will listen, sometimes not... That doesn't mean he is hard to work with or not... It's just a "work" relationship...

Now, I will watch how our Broncos will do next year... And I tell you something... As much as I don't blame McD for Nolan I want to see improvement next year... Again, that doesn't mean we should be better than 8-8... but I want to see a better O, a D that can play a season... I want quality players who play heart and guts for our team. I want a spirited team... This is what I need to see... If there is nothing of that next year, then I wouldn't mind seeing McD gone too... If we are in the right way, then in 2/3 season will be playing again a major role in the AFC... if not... bye bye McD...

/thread? :D


Is it true the HC makes all the choices. Yep. Never once in any debate have i said otherwise. Is it true the McD wanted to put his input on the defensive playcalling? Yep. Is it true that Nolan wanted to jump ship to Miami where he would get to run the defense his way? Yep.

The point is French is that when you go out of your way to get a guy to come in and he does well with what limited guys he has and then all of a sudden your going to use that guy as a scapegoat regarding "run blitzing" when the very HC himself couldnt find his way out of a paper bag offensively is troubling to me. Have i ever said ive abandoned McD as the HC?

Seriously, can ANYONE point to where ive said that McD wont get another shot this year? If not, **** already (not you specifically French). All ive ever stated is that i have doubts about him repeating his 8-8 feat this year considering the impact that Nolan had this year. Things at this point in time for me look more bleak than they did had Nolan stayed. Thats all ive ever said. Yet now somehow i get called a McD hater blah blah blah and so on.

I guess i could just come out and say why dont those who continue to make excuses for the guy remove their mouths from his you know where but why do i need to go there? I think for the most part i have been a pretty rational guy about the whole thing. I said at the start of last season that i will take the wait and see approach. And i was pleased for a good part of it. But now, you take away an element which i think is VERY important to his team right now and you allow him to walk.

If its just about a longterm contract than why didnt Denver offer him one? So really, it tells me its got more to do with how much input McD wants on that side of the ball and Nolan wasnt comfortable with that. And frankly, i wouldnt be comfortable with it either. So i understand why Nolan left, but i think its kind of funny that some of those that think McD's shit dont stink continue to make excuse after excuse for the guy. Sure, he does some things right but not everything that guy does turns to gold.

spikerman
01-26-2010, 06:41 PM
"I'm not hard to work with, everyone else is."

It's tough to handle this fortune and fame

Everybody's so different I haven't changed


- Joe Walsh - "Life's Been Good"

turftoad
01-26-2010, 06:59 PM
So you DO eat your boogers!!!!!!

So you like the drama of reality shows and McDanials shit doesn't stink???

turftoad
01-26-2010, 07:13 PM
Now Pees doesn't even want to work with him, and he knows him.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-26-2010, 07:22 PM
Now Pees doesn't even want to work with him, and he knows him.

I have not seen anything where Coach McD interviewed Pees, and Pees was offered the position, and turned it down - nor have I seen an article which said that Coach McD contacted Pees for an interview, and Pees turned down the interview :confused:

frenchfan
01-27-2010, 02:04 AM
Is it true the HC makes all the choices. Yep. Never once in any debate have i said otherwise. Is it true the McD wanted to put his input on the defensive playcalling? Yep. Is it true that Nolan wanted to jump ship to Miami where he would get to run the defense his way? Yep.

The point is French is that when you go out of your way to get a guy to come in and he does well with what limited guys he has and then all of a sudden your going to use that guy as a scapegoat regarding "run blitzing" when the very HC himself couldnt find his way out of a paper bag offensively is troubling to me. Have i ever said ive abandoned McD as the HC?

Seriously, can ANYONE point to where ive said that McD wont get another shot this year? If not, **** already (not you specifically French). All ive ever stated is that i have doubts about him repeating his 8-8 feat this year considering the impact that Nolan had this year. Things at this point in time for me look more bleak than they did had Nolan stayed. Thats all ive ever said. Yet now somehow i get called a McD hater blah blah blah and so on.

I guess i could just come out and say why dont those who continue to make excuses for the guy remove their mouths from his you know where but why do i need to go there? I think for the most part i have been a pretty rational guy about the whole thing. I said at the start of last season that i will take the wait and see approach. And i was pleased for a good part of it. But now, you take away an element which i think is VERY important to his team right now and you allow him to walk.

If its just about a longterm contract than why didnt Denver offer him one? So really, it tells me its got more to do with how much input McD wants on that side of the ball and Nolan wasnt comfortable with that. And frankly, i wouldnt be comfortable with it either. So i understand why Nolan left, but i think its kind of funny that some of those that think McD's shit dont stink continue to make excuse after excuse for the guy. Sure, he does some things right but not everything that guy does turns to gold.Fair enough... I was too tired to read the entire thread ;) :D

Well... I do understand your point... I don't make excuse for McD... But as I see it, I just see speculation on why Nolan left... May be McD played a part in the process (and certainly, just because for example he is the HC and not Nolan ;))? I can understand Nolan wasn't comfortable with a situation and wanted to leave... But I see no facts to put the blame specifically on McD...
That's of course my opinion...
You know, in life, there are sometimes those kind of situations when you have to part way with someone else... But none of you (and the other) is the one to blame... That wasn't just the right situation...
IMO... the biggest mistake is the move is too easy... We should have something in return from Miami (draft pick?)... I don't understand this though :confused:

I am really pissed Nolan's gone... Make no doubt about that... he did a great job with our D and there was still a lot of work to do... I just hope a guy can step in and do the job now...

As for McD... Well... I think I've clearly said what I thought about him... He is no God... I have expectations for next year... And if our Broncos don't reach them, then I'll say "fire McD"...
For now, I think it would be more dangerous to fire him now than to keep him... We'll see if he ships away our talent or not... Don't think about Marshall here... IMO, he will be traded... I want to see a nice draft and some good FA moves... Bring players here... Bring spirit here too...

Last, I think this thread is a bit useless... It's nice to express our frustration or disappointment but honestly, the best we can do is keeping hope for next year... I'm a bit fed up of those "fights"... We have the right to disagree... YOu know, I understand your point but I just don't fully agree and I want to keep hope... I know somehow you feel the same... This Nolan affair has just put more pressure on McD for sure... No doubt about that !
I really think that he we sucks bad next year (ie: no improvement as I want to see) then I'll be the first one to say "fire the HC"...

:beer:

ursamajor
01-27-2010, 05:52 AM
I will also argue that Indy won the SuperBowl that year because of their defense

The actual SB was because of their run game. Thomas Jones was abusing that defense. Then Turner took the ball out of his hands. I have no idea why.