Reggie Bush vs. Mario Williams. 2 years later...

[sneakers]

Are the Texans still idiots for not drafting Reggie Bush? Or has Mario Williams quietly become a better player than Bush?

[shank]

the texans made the right choice. williams will (is already well on his way to) become a great player in this league, and with okoye next to him will become dominant.

it is very easy to find a player that can do most of what bush can do, if not all of it or even more. a player like williams is harder to find.

[Scarface]

They're idiots for passing on Jay Cutler.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Mario Williams is a stud. The Texans are doing the right thing... They are building up the trenches espically on the d-line and you can already see the improvement. Okoye and Willilamson will be very good for a long time.

[MOtorboat]

They took a calculated risk and it paid off. I bet their scouting department wondered if Bush could be an every-down back, and it looks like they didn't think he could, and so they took the next best player on the board. I think it's going to pay off for them down the road.

[BOSSHOGG30]

They probably looked 3 years ahead and told themselves that 2008 will be the year to draft a runningback. If you are drafting in the top 5 of the draft, 99% of the time it has to do with one thing... your trenches suck. The Texans realized this and have worked hard the past two seasons to fix it. They still have some weaknesses in the trenches, but they aren't too far off from fixing it completely. They are about where we are now.

[turftoad]

They probably thought they made a mistake after his first year.
Man did he come around last year.

Just goes to show that even the #1 overall takes time to get used to the pro game.

[Scarface]

They drafted him to sack Peyton Manning. Result: 1 sack in 4 games.

Basically he heated up during the 2nd half of last season. 4 sacks were in the first 9 games. 10 came in just 6 games. Now, were the 6 games the real Mario or was he just hot? We'll see over the next few years.

[BOSSHOGG30]

They drafted him to sack Peyton Manning. Result: 1 sack in 4 games.

Basically he heated up during the 2nd half of last season. 4 sacks were in the first 9 games. 10 came in just 6 games. Now, were the 6 games the real Mario or was he just hot? We'll see over the next few years.

I think the precence of Okoye helped Mario. Mario was the best Defensive lineman the Texans had and every opposing team that came in double teamed him, chipped him and did whatever it took to keep him out of the game. Now that the Texans have an inside guy like Okoye teams have a harder time double teaming Mario and have to also pay attention to Okoye. Plus Weaver isn't that bad either as the other DE. I think if the Texans can add one more DT or upgrade Weaver they will have one of the better D-lines i nthe league.

[BigDaddyBronco]

At the time I felt that they made the right move because of two factors.

1. It's hard to find a superstar DE.
2. Kubiak's prior experience with zone blocking and low draft pick RB's.

I realize Kubiak didn't make the pick, but I thought it was the right one at the time when he was coming in. Mind you I was thinking Bush would be a very good RB. It's kind of wierd that he hasn't done better, maybe he doesn't like to get hit or his speed isn't as much of an asset with the speed in the NFL.

[mclark]

New Orleans are idiots for not using Reggie Bush as a slot receiver.

[mclark]

They drafted him to sack Peyton Manning. Result: 1 sack in 4 games.

Basically he heated up during the 2nd half of last season. 4 sacks were in the first 9 games. 10 came in just 6 games. Now, were the 6 games the real Mario or was he just hot? We'll see over the next few years.

That was the (rap) story on Mario in colleges. He'd have three multi-sack games in a row and then go silent for 5 games.

[atwater27]

I have always said Bush is waaay overrated. Kudos to the Texans for doing the right thing to improve their team and not buying into the hype. If I were them, though, I would have traded down and still been able to select Mario.
At the time, the Texans also had a good running back. He just happened to sustain a major injury after the draft

[topscribe]

Mario Williams is a stud. The Texans are doing the right thing... They are building up the trenches espically on the d-line and you can already see the improvement. Okoye and Willilamson will be very good for a long time.

The Texans have built a D-line that rivals and may surpass the Giants' line,
especially in that their DTs are much better, IMO.

The day they drafted Super Mario, I was so happy for them that they made
the right decision, in my mind. I got a little concerned in 2006, when Mario
didn't seem to make the splash many seemed to think an overall #1 should
make, but I also realized he was just a rookie. Last year, he improved
dramatically . . . one heck of a jump.

This year . . . well, he may start throwing offensive linemen at quarterbacks.

Wish he was a Bronco. *sigh*

-----

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Smart move....makes us all sound retarded for bashing em...an even dumber move was Tennessee drafting Young. Shoulda stayed in state.

[str8jacket]

I'm personally glad the way that draft turned out :woot:

[atwater27]

Between the 2 of them, Bush and vince Young are the most overrated pair of college superstars of all time. Just my opinion, but I think Young is Kordell Stewart and Bush is Eric Metcalf. Decent players in the right system but by no means worth high 1st round status. I know, fire away, but I am used to catching hell for my opinions.

[MOtorboat]

Between the 2 of them, Bush and vince Young are the most overrated pair of college superstars of all time. Just my opinion, but I think Young is Kordell Stewart and Bush is Eric Metcalf. Decent players in the right system but by no means worth high 1st round status. I know, fire away, but I am used to catching hell for my opinions.

I don't think they are overrated at all. The college game is different. Those two absolutely dominated the college game. The pro game is so much different. Most of it has to do with the athleticism and skill at linebacker. The linebacker pool is so depleted in college that good athletes at the running back or quarterback position can run rampant. But, at the pro level, they are elite and can neutralize that. What it takes in today's NFL to be a solid quarterback is intelligence and arm strength...running back, ability to run between the tackles. Neither of those players showed that in college and neither of them are showing that in the pros. The difference is the skill level of the linebackers....

[aberdien]

Reggie Bush was never meant to be an every down back, and i'm assuming the Saints knew that but they thought since Mcallister is injured why not give him a shot?

They're both pretty good talent.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I do have to say I don't think VY will end up busting. He is who he is and Tennessee is used to working around that. McNair was a pretty mobile gunslinger in his day. Although I see McNair as the superior of the 2, I think VY CAN be good...but 3rd overall? ouch.

[Npba900]

I've always wondered how Bush would do in a zone blocking scheme. Anyway, Bush would have done better in a Denver type offensive system.

Would anyone here mind if Bush was a Bronco right now?

[Superchop 7]

The Texans have built a D-line that rivals and may surpass the Giants' line,
especially in that their DTs are much better, IMO.

The day they drafted Super Mario, I was so happy for them that they made
the right decision, in my mind. I got a little concerned in 2006, when Mario
didn't seem to make the splash many seemed to think an overall #1 should
make, but I also realized he was just a rookie. Last year, he improved
dramatically . . . one heck of a jump.

This year . . . well, he may start throwing offensive linemen at quarterbacks.

Wish he was a Bronco. *sigh*

-----

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Pretty sure it was you and me vs the world back when that selection was made.

At the time, the Texans had a stud RB, it just made sense (for the personnel they had) to draft Williams.

The thing to keep in mind is how much better he got in year 2. (Our guys will look alot better this year) It takes awhile to learn the hand fighting techniques of the pro's.

[Stargazer]

Would anyone here mind if Bush was a Bronco right now?

I would. Because that means Cutler is not a Bronco.

[Stargazer]

I'm personally glad the way that draft turned out :woot:

I am too. Denver's 11th overall selection is on his way.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

28-2...landslide much?

[mclark]

Since Vince Young's name came up: rookie season, 1 game from the playoffs; second season, playoffs.

And this with a terrible suppporting cast on offense. Who were Tennessee's receivers this year?

Vince is effective as a option threat; his running opens up his passing. When he hurt his leg this year, this took away the threat of his running. Still, he took a mediocre team to the playoffs.

Hard to throw a guy under the bus, especially at qb, with those kind of early results.

[atwater27]

Since Vince Young's name came up: rookie season, 1 game from the playoffs; second season, playoffs.

And this with a terrible suppporting cast on offense. Who were Tennessee's receivers this year?

Vince is effective as a option threat; his running opens up his passing. When he hurt his leg this year, this took away the threat of his running. Still, he took a mediocre team to the playoffs.

Hard to throw a guy under the bus, especially at qb, with those kind of early results.

The Titans won in spite of Young, not because of him. They have had a great defense and a savvy coach and a decent running game. Young has won with his legs, but his arm and general QB skills are suspect to say the least.

[BOSSHOGG30]

The key word is win

[atwater27]

Win just like Jake Plummer did before Cutty took over?

[mclark]

The Titans won in spite of Young, not because of him. They have had a great defense and a savvy coach and a decent running game. Young has won with his legs, but his arm and general QB skills are suspect to say the least.

Young played more than half of his second year injured, unable to run.

However, John Elway had 25 TDS and 29 interceptions his first two years; Young 21 TDS and 30 interceptions his first two.

Elway completed 47% of his passes in year 1, 56.3% in year 2. Young completed 51.5% on his passes in year 1, 62.3% in year 2.

Tennessee did have a good defense this season. But it's still too early to throw Vince under the bus. A lot of football experts were throwing John Elway under the bus also after two seasons. It takes more than 2 seasons to learn to be an effective qb in the NFL.

If you watched the Tennessee playoff game, Young's first three passes were dropped. Tennessee is badly in need of some playmakers at wide receiver.


JOHN ELWAY
1983 – 259 attempts 123 completions – 47% - 1663 yards – 7 TDS – 14 INT – 54.9% RATING
1984 – 380 attempts, 214 completions – 56.3% - 2598 yards – 18 TDS – 15 INT – 76.8% RATING

VINCE YOUNG
2006 – 357 attempts, 184 completions – 51.5% - 2199 yards – 12 TDS – 13 INT – 66% RATING
2007 – 382 attempts, 238 completions – 62.3% - 2546 yards – 9 TD – 17 INT – 71.1 RATING

[atwater27]

Young played more than half of his second year injured, unable to run.

However, John Elway had 25 TDS and 29 interceptions his first two years; Young 21 TDS and 30 interceptions his first two.

Elway completed 47% of his passes in year 1, 56.3% in year 2. Young completed 51.5% on his passes in year 1, 62.3% in year 2.

Tennessee did have a good defense this season. But it's still too early to throw Vince under the bus. A lot of football experts were throwing John Elway under the bus also after two seasons. It takes more than 2 seasons to learn to be an effective qb in the NFL.


If you watched the Tennessee playoff game, Young's first three passes were dropped. Tennessee is badly in need of some playmakers at wide receiver.


JOHN ELWAY
1983 – 259 attempts 123 completions – 47% - 1663 yards – 7 TDS – 14 INT – 54.9% RATING
1984 – 380 attempts, 214 completions – 56.3% - 2598 yards – 18 TDS – 15 INT – 76.8% RATING

VINCE YOUNG
2006 – 357 attempts, 184 completions – 51.5% - 2199 yards – 12 TDS – 13 INT – 66% RATING
2007 – 382 attempts, 238 completions – 62.3% - 2546 yards – 9 TD – 17 INT – 71.1 RATING

1. Vince's rookie year, he had a dominant defense, good running game, and a very good coach who knew just how to use him. Elway was not near as well positioned.

2. Look at the second season TD to INT ratio. That says it all. Elway threw twice as many TD passes and fewer INT's than Young his second year. Young's completion percentage was high because the titans playcalling is very conservative; lots of short passes.

3. I cringe at Vince and Elway being in the same sentence, with all due respect.

[mclark]

1. Vince's rookie year, he had a dominant defense, good running game, and a very good coach who knew just how to use him. Elway was not near as well positioned.

2. Look at the second season TD to INT ratio. That says it all. Elway threw twice as many TD passes and fewer INT's than Young his second year. Young's completion percentage was high because the titans playcalling is very conservative; lots of short passes.

3. I cringe at Vince and Elway being in the same sentence, with all due respect.

1. Dominant defense in 2006? Actually in 2006, Tennessee was LAST (32) in team defense in terms of yards per game allowed and second to last (31) in terms of points per game allowed.

2. Yes, Young took a step back in 2007 in terms of TD/Interception ratio. He played much of the season injured and unable to run, which cut down on his effectiveness.

3. I'm not saying Young is another Elway. I'm saying it's too early to say how good Young will be. But in his first two years, Young was a more accurate passer than John Elway was (57% accuracy for Young, 54% accuracy for Elway). Oh, and John Elway had much better receivers at Denver than Young has had at Tennessee. Time will tell how good Young will be (and also how good Cutler will be. The jury is still out on Cutler, despite his statistical advantage.)

2006 Team Defense Points per Game Yards Per Game

Baltimore Ravens 16 12.6 264.1
Jacksonville Jaguars 16 17.1 283.6
Oakland Raiders 16 20.8 284.8
Miami Dolphins 16 17.7 289.1
Chicago Bears 16 15.9 294.1
New England Patriots 16 14.8 294.4
Carolina Panthers 16 19.1 296.1
Minnesota Vikings 16 20.4 300.2
Pittsburgh Steelers 16 19.7 300.3
San Diego Chargers 16 18.9 301.6
New Orleans Saints 16 20.1 307.3
Green Bay Packers 16 22.9 320.9
Dallas Cowboys 16 21.9 322.8
Denver Broncos 16 19.1 326.4
Philadelphia Eagles 16 20.5 328.1
Kansas City Chiefs 16 19.7 328.9
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 16 22.1 329.4
Buffalo Bills 16 19.4 329.6
Seattle Seahawks 16 21.3 330.3
New York Jets 16 18.4 331.6
Indianapolis Colts 16 22.5 332.2
Atlanta Falcons 16 20.5 332.8
St. Louis Rams 16 23.8 335.1
Houston Texans 16 22.9 337.5
New York Giants 16 22.6 342.4
San Francisco 49ers 16 25.8 344.2
Cleveland Browns 16 22.2 344.8
Detroit Lions 16 24.9 345.6
Arizona Cardinals 16 24.3 349.4
Cincinnati Bengals 16 20.7 355.1
Washington Redskins 16 23.5 355.5
Tennessee Titans 16 25 369.7

[atwater27]

Wow. I had an image of my mind of a tough Titans D that season. Boy was I wrong.
I do recall mr. Pacman Jones bailing the Titans out on several occasions, though.
In 2007, though, Tennessee improved to 5th and 8th respectively in those key defensive categories.
Obviously, we will see in the near future who has the right guess on this subject.:salute:

[Scarface]

VY is no freakin John Elway.

[BroncoJoe]

mclark, you're dead to me now.

Wow.

[Lonestar]

you always take can;t miss DT/DE or OT over hot shot RB's they almost always have more impact on the game in the LONG run..

The average RB life span is about 4.25 years. Lots of DT are 10-15 year players..

[lex]

you always take can;t miss DT/DE or OT over hot shot RB's they almost always have more impact on the game in the LONG run..

The average RB life span is about 4.25 years. Lots of DT are 10-15 year players..

You dont think that # is skewed by backups that only last a couple of years? Also, you seem to see more project OLinemen than project RBs.

[Lonestar]

You dont think that # is skewed by backups that only last a couple of years? Also, you seem to see more project OLinemen than project RBs.

The number is the number skewed by no one..

He has just as high probability if not more for going down injured. If a back up does not carry the ball often s a superstar that get sit more what are th odd son the superstar lasting any longer that the average..

Take TD as a case in point.. had he not been injured just how many more years would have had on those knees that required Microfacture surgery?


I'll take Studs on the LOS any day over in this case questionable character RB with a lot of miles and hits on him already..

This is a no brainer..

[mclark]

VY is no freakin John Elway.

Please, Scar, read what I write.

I wrote:

3. I'm not saying Young is another Elway. I'm saying it's too early to say how good Young will be....